The Unexplained - Howard Hughes - Edition 510 - Gavin G L Davies

Jan. 17, 2021 - The Unexplained - Howard Hughes

01:06:27

Edition 510 - Gavin G L Davies

Gavin G L Davies recounts stories of high strangeness in West Wales - from his new book "Harvest - a true story of Alien Abduction"

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	Across the UK, across continental North America and around the world on the internet, by webcast and by podcast, my name is Howard Hughes and this is The Unexplained.
	Thank you very much for being part of my show.
	Thank you for keeping the emails coming as we cruise through 2021.
	We are now staring down the barrel of February.
	And of course, you know that one of the high points in the year for me is usually when we can start to see our way clear out of winter.
	So I'm now counting off.
	It's almost like a kid looking forward to Christmas.
	I'm counting off the weeks until March and then the start of spring, we hope, here in the UK.
	They're talking about snow here at the end of January.
	Let's see what happens.
	Now, this edition is going to be something that I recorded before Christmas.
	So if you hear any references in the show that are to things that happened before Christmas, you'll understand that.
	I'm sorry to the guest for being so late in putting this out.
	The man is Gavin G.L. Davis, old friend of this show in West Wales.
	The last time he appeared on the show, he told us some terrifying tales of a haunting in a house in his locale.
	This time, we're going to give you some strange UAP, UFO, and potential alien presence stories.
	And also, the main subject of his new book, Harvest, is a woman, given in the book the name Susan.
	That's not her real name.
	But what she has been through, if it is to be believed, is a stunning, chilling, and frightening encounter with something that may be extraterrestrial or maybe something else.
	You make your mind up when you hear this.
	Gavin G.L. Davis, talking about his new book and his new research on this edition of the show.
	Thank you very much for all of your emails and telling me about yourself.
	Keep hearing from people who've been listening for years but have only just decided to get in touch.
	It's really nice to hear that, that you're listening to this show goes back years and you say, I've just decided to give you an email just to let you know that I'm there.
	Nice to know that because sometimes you can sit here and think, you know, you're doing these things in isolation.
	There used to be a broadcaster in England called Ray Moore and he used to say that they paid him for sitting there talking to the wall.
	Sometimes I think that kind of that's what I'm doing, but your responses and your emails make me realize that there's a family out there.
	If you've made a donation to the show, by the way, recently, thank you very much from the bottom of my heart.
	And if you haven't, then please do consider it.
	You can do that by going to my website, theunexplained.tv, following the donation link, and you can make a PayPal donation that way.
	If you have recently, thank you very, very much.
	And you know who you are.
	Thank you to Adam, my webmaster, for his continuing hard work on all of this.
	Also to Haley for booking the guests.
	All right, let's get to the West of Wales now.
	This conversation recorded before Christmas, and my apologies to Gavin for being so late in putting this out.
	Some of the references may because the situation that we live in at the moment is fast moving, may be a little dated by now, but that's the reason for this.
	So recorded before Christmas, Gavin G.L. Davis, we're talking about his new book to do with a very strange alien presence.
	You see what you think.
	Gavin, thank you for coming back on my show.
	Howard, thank you so much for this wonderful opportunity.
	Thank you to all your wonderful worldwide listeners.
	It's absolutely fantastic to be back.
	Thank you very much, and I hope you're keeping safe during this time as well.
	I'm trying to.
	I heard today reports of the way things are in Wales.
	I think your restrictions are somewhat more than ours.
	I think they're closing the pubs down at 6 p.m. or something like that.
	I really, I've lost the plot with it.
	I don't know.
	Well, in Pembrokeshire, West Wales, where I live, we were kind of untouchable for quite a while.
	We had very minimum cases.
	But unfortunately, over the last couple of weeks, those cases have risen.
	And now we're starting to see more and more news of people having the illness, people going to hospital and certain restrictions.
	It's a really scary and challenging time for a lot of people.
	But the main thing is, wherever your listeners are listening in the world, I just hope you're keeping safe and we will all get through this.
	I promise.
	Yeah, well, now I've just been saying that in the intro to this, that, you know, there is going to be light at the end of the tunnel and it's not necessarily going to be a train coming the other way.
	So let's just, you know, hope that human ingenuity sorts this out quickly because otherwise I'm going to go stir crazy.
	And that's just a solid fact.
	Okay.
	Give me a 30-second thumbnail sketch for people who've never heard you before, Gavin, of you and what you are and what you do.
	Right, everyone.
	My name is G.L. Davis, but people who know me call me Gavin.
	I am the author of several books, one being Haunted Horror of Haverford West, which Howard kindly interviewed me about two years ago, pretty much this very day.
	And this is somewhere in the archives.
	It's about a deeply haunted house.
	In Haverford West, which I lived in, which had a profound mental effect on me.
	And also the author of the brand new testimonial account that is Harvest the True Story of Alien Abduction.
	I'm the founder of theparanormalchronicles.com and I'm also a publicist for the number sixth-books.com.
	So my pretty much my entire world is wrapped up in the paranormal authors books and witness accounts.
	So that's me in a nutshell.
	Not bad.
	That's the minute 15 seconds.
	That's not bad.
	You know, I said 30 seconds, but I was being conservative about that.
	I knew it would take more.
	But a minute 15 is pretty damn good.
	Okay.
	The area that you live in and the area that we're going to be talking about, we have to paint a picture of that because it is a very rural area.
	Now, you know that I love Wales.
	My ancestry is Welsh.
	Apart from coming from Liverpool, a lot of the Liverpuglians are originally Welsh because you stand on the beach where I was brought up and you could see Wales and that's where my people came from.
	But it is, this is southwest Wales, West Wales, really.
	And it is very rural.
	It's very isolated.
	It's not easy to get to.
	It's not easy to get away from if you're using the roads there.
	And it's very, I think, it's very different, for example, from the south of England and, you know, the west country.
	It's a country by...
	I agree, Howard, because the motorway ends before Pembrokeshire.
	So you drive and drive or you take the train as far across England into Wales as you can.
	And we are the last stop.
	They kick you off at Swansea, and that's it.
	They kick you off at Swansea.
	We now have a train station at Halford West, if anybody Wants to come and visit.
	It'll take you a very long time to get here.
	But with Pembrokeshire, as you correctly identified, it's a very rural coastal community.
	It's very large geographically, but very small in terms of population.
	Now, Pembrokeshire is built on agriculture, but more recently, we've had the oil refineries.
	Milford Haven is the second largest natural haven harbour in Europe.
	And we've also got a large military presence and certainly did do, which kind of ties into part of the story.
	We have an army base that used to be a Royal Air Force base.
	We also used to have a United States Air Force base as well.
	And I think these kind of things, what Howard's talking about, the isolation and the sparsely populated area, it's a very beautiful place, combined with a lot of military activity, probably has some guesswork and investigating work already by some of your listeners to just why there's so much alien activity down here.
	Well, we say alien activity, of course, we don't definitely know that, but we do know that over history, and we're going to be talking about that, there has been an abnormally high level of UFO reporting there.
	And if we think about other parts of the world, Gavin, places that are somewhat isolated, somewhat rural, but have a military presence, sometimes those are hotspots for those kind of things.
	And so it is with West Wales.
	Yeah, and I think that's where the connection is.
	It's kind of like you get very rural places with lots of UFO or unidentified aerial phenomena is the new buzzword.
	And lots of strange activities that are linked to a lot of military presence.
	So with us in Pembrokeshire, West Wales, in the late 1970s, very, very popular.
	It was on the news reports, pretty much all over the world.
	Pembrokeshire became the UFO hotspot of the world for about five years.
	And it's very easy to miss the events of what happened here when comparing to things like, obviously, Roswell or Rendlesham, a more popular UFO activity or alleged UFO activity.
	And it all began, there'd been UFO sightings in Pembrokeshire going all the way back to the 1950s.
	There's a case in your book about something very eye-raising, eyebrow-raising, in 1959.
	But I didn't realise it went back to the 30s.
	Yeah, there was documentation.
	In Harvest, the True Story of Alien Abduction, what I've tried to do is give you a glimpse into our past, coupled with what's here now, and kind of let the reader become an investigator with me.
	I'm not going to tell you, oh, this is true or this isn't true.
	I want the reader to join me on the investigation.
	And everyone's welcome to contact me at harvestalienabduction at gmail.com with your own theories and experiences and ideas on what happened.
	So Pembrokeshire's had a rich history of not only UFO activity, but strange creatures and UFOs and ghosts and whatnot, and strange creatures going back hundreds of years.
	And I think that's what makes Pembrokeshire so interesting.
	Around every corner, there's a ghost story or strange creature.
	And I think, again, that may be to do with its, as Howard rightly identified at the start of the show, it's almost like its own country.
	It's almost got like its own little heritage, its own mythology all wrapped around in this very large but densely populated county.
	So if we go back to say the 1970s, there had been UFO reports, but it was one particular event that kind of really spiraled this whole UFO flap in Pembrokeshire.
	And this is in a little coastal town called Broadhaven.
	Now, if anybody wants to get a feel for what Pembrokeshire is like, you're more than welcome to join me on my Instagram account, The Paranormal Chronicles, because I've got lots of pictures.
	It's not all about books and all.
	And it's just pictures of the county, of places of interest, of places of hauntings and history.
	And Broadhaven is this very, very peaceful little coastal town.
	It's right on the coast.
	And in 1977, in early February, 16 school children aged between the ages 11 and 9 at the Broadhaven Primary School claimed to have seen a strange vehicle in a neighbouring field.
	Now they described the vehicle as a cigar-shaped object, silver in colour with a dome on top.
	Now the children are obviously excited by this.
	It was something they'd not seen before, something they could not naturally identify.
	So they went to the headmaster, excited, infused, some a bit worried.
	So what the headmaster, Mr. Ralph Llewellyn, did was he took all the children into the assembly hall, sat them down in exam conditions and asked them to draw and write down their experience, what they had seen.
	And what made major news was that the pictures were eerily similar.
	There was a few embellishments and flourishes, but there was pretty much this object with silver shape, a silver colour and a dome on top.
	So the rumor was that the children had all seen a documentary a few weeks ago on a TV show that you sit here in the United Kingdom called Nationwide.
	And Nationwide had been discussing UFOs.
	And there was this possibility that there was some kind of prank being played, that this was all kind of a plan.
	But one of the teachers, she saw the object as well.
	And she was told to just say it was a sewerage truck, but didn't sit with her.
	So she went to the sewerage park, to the sewerage depot, and said to the supervisor, look, did you have any machinery or a vehicle near the school?
	And he said, no, it would have been impossible.
	So that field of news, it was on John Craven's news round, which was an institution on children's television.
	Okay, for our American listeners, that was a news.
	I don't know if you have these in America, but it was a news program the BBC still does for kids.
	Yeah, and that was a big deal to be having your school featured on John Craven's news round.
	That was huge.
	That was your school win in the World Cup.
	It was just massive.
	So from there, this hysteria, and you could either call it mass, mass sightings, shared consciousness, or mass hysteria then ensued.
	In fact, literally everyone and their mother started seeing UFOs.
	Children were going to school, seeing UFOs.
	Mothers were walking their dogs at night, seeing UFOs.
	Business people were seeing UFOs.
	But the main focus was on a particular family called the Coombs family who lived in a place called Ripiston Farm, which you can see from Broadhaven.
	It's a very lonely looking farm up on the Cliff and the mother claimed that one night while driving home, an orange ball of light chased the car home.
	And as this ball of light got closer, the engine started to fail, and she had to freewheel back to their farmhouse where the object followed them and basically killed the TV and all the electrics in the house.
	Now, you've got to think right, 1977, Pembrokeshire would have been very, very backward place.
	And that's no disrespect to myself or anyone lives in Pembrokeshire.
	Well, you know, maybe I used to go on holiday there.
	I would never have described it as backward, but I would have said it wasolated.
	Yeah, but if you think where I lived, I didn't get a telephone line put into the house or radiators until 1989.
	Okay.
	Right?
	And that was stuff that, you know, in Liverpool where I was brought up, we were doing when people were improving their homes.
	I grew up in a home that had gas fires and no central heating, but all the improvements were done in the 70s.
	So you were doing that stuff 10 years later?
	10 years later.
	And we, for example, there's one woman in my street who had a payphone and you'd go to her house and give her some money and use the phone.
	And that's how I used to talk to my gran.
	And she used to go to a lady's house who had a payphone as well.
	So not a discredit in Pembrokeshire, but we were a little bit, you know, we're a little bit backward in that sense.
	So it was very terrifying for this family.
	And then one of the most famous stories to come out was that the Coombs family, Saturday night, they sat in their living room, late 1970s, when the TV had three channels and it'd pretty much go off at midnight after the national anthem.
	They were kind of watching a late night film, kind of getting ready for bed, when they claimed to have seen a seven foot spaceman, glowing spaceman at the window.
	They described him as seven foot, very large.
	He filled the frame of the window.
	He had a silver suit on and a visor and a helmet.
	And some reports, one of the children claiming he had like an antennae or an aerial coming out of his back.
	The farmer woke up.
	He was really upset.
	He threw the dog out.
	The dog ran off and they watched this silver suited being float off.
	The police came down and one of the men who went down, one of the policemen, in a later interview, he got quite high up where the police said he's investigated murders and rapes and all kinds of horrific crimes, but he'd never seen a family as terrified as that family.
	The dog subsequently, and this is very upset and had to be put down because it was so terrifying.
	So it was so traumatized by that.
	Did anybody from the Ministry of Defense talk to this family?
	Yeah, allegedly, there was all these rumors of people going down.
	One of the most famous ones was that, you know, two men in an unmarked vehicle drove down claiming to be from the military.
	And then this kind of blurs depending who you speak to into a men in black story.
	So it was all happening.
	And what you've got to remember as well, Howard, is right at this time in Pembrokeshire, we had RAF Broady, which was Royal Air Force Base.
	We also had a United States Air Force Base as well.
	And at this time, reports since uncovered that the United States military were laying huge cables under the Irish Sea as early warning submarine tracking.
	Okay, so if you've got to think there's a top secret operation going on in Pembroke on the coast, maybe some of these lights, maybe some of these objects are things like cranes, trucks, you know, just the just the machinery needed to conduct such an operation.
	And not a seven foot tall being staring into your window.
	No, exactly.
	Another strange thing that happened to this family was that the farmer was milking his cows.
	His phone was going up in the house.
	He walked up to the house.
	One of the neighboring farmers said, all your cows are in my field.
	Can you come get them?
	And he said, nice try.
	I'm just milking them now.
	And the guy said, I've got your tag on.
	They're in my field.
	And the farmer said, they're not there.
	You're three miles away.
	Good try.
	He went back to his shed and his cattle were gone.
	Another story, the kids claimed that a disembodied hand went through the house, touched them and burnt them.
	So all of this kind of hysteria, the Western Telegraph, the local paper at the time, it was front page news all the time.
	It's just selling papers.
	Plus everyone from like the media, UFO, investigators, journalists, reporters were all flocking to Pembrokeshire to see if they could have their own experience.
	Now, one very interesting aside to this story, something from a little bit of research after, was the mother, Pauline Coombs, had had an incident that had been reported several years before this flap of UFO incidents, where she claimed that, I don't know how you describe it, like an effigy or an image of Christ had appeared in a caravan and miracles could be performed in.
	That was in a neighboring town of Pembroke Dock in Pembrokeshire.
	And the caravan owner and site manager got so fed up that people flock in to see this alleged effigy of Christ or vision of Christ or whatever it was.
	He had the caravan knockdown and they were moved on.
	So before...
	Do you think that's it?
	No, not at all.
	No, not at all.
	If I'm being honest with you, you know, I'm thinking like there's two, there's two people out there listening, right?
	There's two things they can think.
	Number one, that this family has a connection to alleged paranormal activities, that they operate on a different frequency.
	Or the second one being is that maybe they are prone to delusions and fantasy.
	Well, you know, we don't know that.
	We don't know.
	And, you know, look, there must be members of the family still around.
	Have you talked to them?
	They don't talk.
	They don't talk.
	I've spoke to a few people regarding it.
	And that's how it got me onto the book, Harvest, the True Story of Alien Abduction, because that was the case I wanted to reopen and study and talk to people.
	And I started speaking to a few people.
	Some people said that they lied.
	And some people said they were told to lie when, in fact, they had seen something.
	So I was like, this is fascinating.
	Told to lie.
	You mean in sort of a disinformational way?
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	Like, and it was very difficult to get to the bottom of that.
	It was like people would be particularly decrypted and then people would just be really open.
	And like one woman I spoke to, she claimed that the children had planned the whole Object by the school.
	She reckoned that.
	Like I said, can you prove this with those children?
	But those children won't come forward.
	So we have to get this clear because there'll be listeners all around the world thinking, are there similarities in this school case to Westall School in Australia and Ariel School in Zimbabwe?
	If they all saw the same kind of objects and the same kind of things, what we've got to remember is, are these children seeing the same thing or is it a shared consciousness?
	Because I find it highly irregular that three sets of children all across the world would plan a hoax.
	But then the headmaster in Broadhaven, Ralph Llewellyn, he ruled it out that they did see something, but they misidentified a natural object which they were unfamiliar with.
	So who knows?
	That could be a TV license fan, some kind of agricultural machinery or military machinery.
	Well, that's possible.
	But you're saying, before we get on to the case of Susan, who this book is mostly but not entirely about, are there any other events in West Wales that we need to be talking about that set the scene for that?
	From 1977 to 1982, there was just a huge variety of UFO cases.
	You had them from school children saying they saw like fried egg objects, using their terminology, not mine.
	One older gentleman, he claimed he looked out the window and he saw a spaceman hanging off an upside-down bell floating past his house.
	Sorry, I laughed about that, but I just had a mental picture of that.
	Yeah, yeah.
	Yeah, put that in the blue barrel.
	But you know, sometimes these things are true.
	Of course, they're bizarre because we don't understand them.
	Okay, so there was a raft of things.
	You were telling me some of them.
	Yeah, so for five years, there was this raft of strange, peculiar sightings.
	Sometimes it was of men.
	There was a very famous one from a hotel in St. Bride's, where they reckon they saw spacemen.
	There was a case where people claimed they saw stack rocks, which is that bunch of rocks you see in Broadhaven Bay, open up and an object fly into it and disappear.
	So it was just, I wish I'd been alive because it would have just been so interesting.
	Now, I spoke to people who worked in the military in Broady and I said, look, was it you guys?
	What was going on?
	And they said, well, it wasn't us.
	We think something was going on, but it wasn't us.
	And they just said, well, maybe it's the Americans.
	Hang on.
	You say they think that something was going on.
	Yeah, like just personal, personal kind of expressions of, yeah, we think something was going on, but we don't think it was.
	It definitely wasn't Broady.
	We think it was probably the Americans.
	And to be honest, it probably was.
	A lot of it was American.
	But then how much of it was them?
	And it's like that chicken and egg.
	Was them doing work starting a sight in or was there something happening before then?
	So I put out an email, sorry, a web, a web, sorry, let me say that.
	I sent out a call on my website.
	If anybody would like to talk about it, I'd be really interested in talking to them.
	I've got a reputation after haunted horror of Hafford West and a few other of my accounts.
	And I had an email from a woman saying I'd like to talk to you about UFOs and aliens in Pembrokeshire.
	And I met this young lady.
	And she was in her mid-20s, and she was far too young to have been alive in the late 70s or early 80s.
	So my first idea was that she was talking on behalf as maybe some older relatives, just sussing me out beforehand to see like how I would, would I be dignified or was I someone who was making a joke of it?
	So I'd be overly skeptical or whatnot.
	And I was very surprised that this woman wasn't talking about stuff that happened in Pembroke's past, but something she claimed allegedly had happened very, very recently.
	And that was her own alien abduction and alien experiences.
	Okay, and this is Susan, which is not her real name.
	Yeah, her name is not Susan, and there's a reason for that.
	And I'll tell you why, because a lot of people straight away will say, well, how do we know?
	Why is this woman not on Howard's show telling her account herself?
	First thing I have to do, I have to kind of discern if this person is a fantasist or if they're delusional.
	You can never be 100% sure in these cases.
	So what did you do to discern that or try to?
	It's very difficult.
	I get people all the time, Howard, messaging me daily.
	I'll give you an example, okay?
	Somebody messaged me recently, and I don't want to kind of discredit this person if they are listening, but they said that they got home from work early one day.
	Their husband's car was home.
	They went into the house.
	Their husband was in the shower.
	She went upstairs.
	She opened the bathroom door without knocking, and she claimed there was an octopus in the bath, and her husband was just a skin suit on the floor.
	I'm not interested in that.
	Now, I'm not saying that's not true.
	I just find it highly improbable because I said to her, yeah, I laughed as well.
	I messaged her.
	Oh, yeah, weird stuff happens.
	I can't 100% say that didn't happen.
	But I have to say, it does sound unlikely.
	Yeah, and I said, is there any possibility you could supply me with a photo or could I meet this gentleman?
	And she's like, oh, no, he's very camera shy.
	And I thought, well, I'm not surprised if he's an octopus, some kind of alien creature.
	Well, and she'd never noticed this before.
	No, she'd never noticed this before.
	But I get stuff like that all the time.
	Okay, well, I mean, look, I wouldn't go writing it.
	I mean, if that person is listening, you know, I hear what you say.
	But I think we have to have a little further proof, maybe.
	And also, what can we do with that?
	Is there a story there?
	Can we talk to that person?
	Can we investigate that?
	Can we research timelines and events?
	Do you know what I mean?
	Like, what can we actually do with that?
	If me and you went to visit that lady, Howard, we'd probably be done in about half an hour and we'd just come out shrugging.
	With Susan, she was very articulate and very intelligent, which was...
	She had no agenda or motivation other than I felt she had this need for catharsicism and later on I believe showed a warning.
	She had a warning for all of us.
	She exhibited no evidence of mental health, not that I have some kind of magic mental health detector.
	But what I Was dealing with was a woman who was very confused, very disturbed, but was very eager to tell a story.
	She is not here now or on Oprah or on any television show in the world because one people don't accept it.
	I've had authors that I've worked with go on radio shows, Howard, and they're not as fair as you, where you give them a fair crack of the whip to tell a story.
	If that host doesn't like the story or they don't believe it, they just shut them down and they shut them off.
	And yet she was willing to tell you her story.
	So she was willing to tell someone.
	She's willing to tell me, and I believe a lot of it was catharsicism, which when you read Harvest, a true story of alien abduction, I believe that the audience, the readership will also get that feeling as well.
	But the problem with it is, and I can hear my listeners on their keyboards now, some of them are going to be saying, how do we know that this person even exists?
	Yeah, exactly.
	Exactly.
	But I'll tell you one thing.
	Two things will happen and Susan will be on the show herself.
	Number one, it is more acceptable for people to speak about UFOs and aliens and her own personal experiences in the general media.
	And also probably when her parents die, because it was something she was terribly afraid of them knowing.
	What you've got to remember is, Howard, and you've probably had your own experiences of this with the media.
	If people go on the radio and they talk about any media and they start talking about aliens and UFOs, it's all puns about anal probes, little green man and tinfoil hats.
	Well, yes.
	I mean, you know, I think we're a bit more enlightened, but there's an awful lot of that stuff still going on.
	I think there would still be some listeners, but we're still going to hear the story.
	Of course we are.
	That's what we're here to do.
	Who will say there would be some way that we could get an indication as to whether this person exists, whether she's interviewed through a voice-changing device or something like that.
	There's more maybe that she could do because otherwise, and I'm taking you on face value, Gavin.
	I always have.
	But not everybody will.
	Yeah, and I totally understand that.
	And I think that people read Harvest, The True Story of Alien Abduction, you will get that sense that this is a very real person, it's a very real woman that has come to terms with something that she didn't want, she didn't ask for, something she's finding very difficult to deal with.
	Now, she's currently traveling.
	I believe she's in Australia at this time.
	And I would love, Howard, in the very near future, particularly with what's going on in the world right now, to say to you, Howard, I would like you to speak to Susan.
	I would like you to speak.
	Well, I mean, look, let's put that on the table that maybe sometime that could happen.
	I think it would be better.
	Maybe not necessarily for broadcast if she didn't want to do it.
	But then I would have my own validation there and I wouldn't be passing it on.
	If she wanted to stay anonymous, that's absolutely fine.
	And you've just got to take me, my word for that.
	And I'm talking to you, Gavin, and to my listener as well, that my listener would have to believe that I'd done that.
	Okay, so this is, I mean, look, I've skipped through the book before we spoke.
	It's quite a story, and it's an ongoing story.
	I mean, whatever it was that was possessing, and I don't mean that in the demonic sense, but whatever it was that had hold of this woman, Susan, we're calling her, didn't let go.
	I found this very interesting.
	There's a number of levels I was interested in, okay?
	As anybody's read any of my work before, whether it's one of my earlier books, which we won't talk about on the show because the second book gets people into lots of trouble.
	People want to know that is what my second book was.
	They can go out and find that.
	Or whether it was Haunted Horror of Haverford West.
	I never say to you, oh, look, you need to believe in all of this.
	This is true.
	This is 100% fact.
	What I do is I spend a long time with a subject and I interview them and I interview them again and I cross-examine them and I try and put events to dates and I try and make something credible as best as I can.
	Obviously, as you've just highlighted, how it is hard.
	I could get a woman on the radio now and I still wouldn't prove or disprove that it was true unless we can get that evidence.
	And even if I did present evidence of photographs or videos or sound recordings, things are so easily manipulated and created today.
	It's a minefield.
	The whole paranormal is a minefield.
	It's so difficult to discern what is real and what's not real.
	And I don't doubt there are people out there.
	People sometimes accuse me of being gullible for listening to everybody, but I say I take the stories and you, the listener, decide what you make of them.
	It isn't for me to judge about those things.
	So, you know, I have my own opinions, but I'm not going to be voice, unless something is absolutely outrageous.
	I'm not going to be voicing it here because that's not my job.
	Give me a summary then, and I'm going to shut up and let you talk of the things that she told you.
	And can I just say, Howard, what I love about your show, right, and this is true, I'm not trying to like, you know, beg you up too much, but what I like is that you're very fair and you put your listeners and, you know, you put their needs first.
	So you ask the questions that need to be asked.
	And I love that.
	My listeners, you know, I can sometimes, you know, I get people who will take radically opposite views of people that I speak with or things that are said on the show.
	And sometimes people will say, right on how that's absolutely right.
	And the same words will be interpreted totally differently by somebody else.
	And they'll say to me, what the hell did you have that person on for?
	So I hope I understand my listener.
	I do this sincerely.
	But enough of that.
	They need to hear the story.
	So Harvest the True Story of Alien Abduction, okay, is a sit-down interview over a period of years.
	How many years?
	I began just after my second book.
	So that would have been the end of 2014.
	So it was on and off basically until it went to the publishers in 2017.
	And then it's been that process with the publishing and, you know, the legalities and all that kind of stuff to get us to October when the book finally came out.
	And I've been very blessed.
	The book has sold out five times and the response has just been overwhelming.
	Because what I do, which I do give myself credit for, is I'm very, very fair.
	I won't treat my audience as stupid or naive, but I won't pander to the sceptics either.
	I will give you the best, most accurate testimonial from this individual as possible.
	And I will talk about mental health.
	I'll talk about delusion and fantasy.
	And I'll put it all in a big ball and give it back to the reader and make up your own mind.
	So when Susan came to me, right?
	One of the things I would really surprise me is how intelligent and articulate she was.
	I thought, why is she necessarily talking to me?
	Now, what I mean now is really respectful, okay?
	I get a lot of people, as we discussed with the octopus thing, a lot of people come to me that are desperate for something to happen to them.
	And what I mean is they need aliens or demons or angels or psychic abilities or anything of that nature.
	They want their 15 minutes.
	I've got that.
	And to feel important.
	And they want their life to have meaning.
	The world is full of people who want to feel important.
	And most of us, and that includes me, just aren't.
	And some people maybe have to realize that most of us don't become important in any way.
	And those who do become important, maybe don't become important for very long.
	So look, I don't want to identify her if she doesn't want to be identified.
	So we've got to be careful how we do this.
	But, you know, we need to know sort of age and what was she doing with herself at that time?
	She was in her mid-20s, very tall, very elegant woman.
	She hid herself in baggy clothes.
	After a few chats, I went back to her apartment.
	My belief system made me think that it was just going to be a room that, you know, it was, you know, smelling of marijuana and things like that.
	And I went to an immaculate home with a woman that appeared to be very well read.
	And already the alarm bells start going of visits of fantasy.
	She's very well read, very well educated.
	She hinted that her background, she was on a very good career progression in a very prominent profession.
	If to put it, you know, I don't want to be judgmental here, but she was basically given the silver spoon and the silver platter.
	Everything in her life is mapped out.
	She was working hard.
	She was sensible.
	Her family were well-to-do.
	They were all very professional, hence the need for a certain amount of anonymity at this stage.
	Middle-class young woman with everything with everything to look forward to.
	What happened?
	Well, she claims that the first instance, like on her radar, they didn't talk about the paranormal.
	They weren't even a particular religious family.
	They'd have their duty days, as they called it, weddings, christening, Christmas Mass, so on.
	But they weren't religious people.
	They're very much grounded in the real world.
	So her and some of her college friends or university friends, they were college friends, pardon me, they went to a farmhouse where one of the girls lived in their early 20s.
	And they were having a bit of a girl's night.
	We're talking pajamas and reocha, listening to some music, texting some boys, nothing serious, just letting her head down.
	As Susan says in Harvest, the True Story of Alien Abduction, she was working very, very hard.
	Now, they called these lads to come over from the pub to come and visit.
	And the plan was they were going to all stay the night, have some fun, and just have a weekend together.
	Susan went to the loop, and while she was sat on the loo in this farmhouse, she could see, it was pitch black, but there was a long track leading to this farmhouse.
	Once you were on this track, you were committed to it.
	You couldn't turn around.
	You'd be half a mile on a bumpy old track to get to the farmhouse, turn around and then head back.
	So this story, she really rationalizes that she saw some headlights coming down.
	She was peering out the window while sat in the loo.
	And with that, the lights went out in the house and the lights disappeared on the drive.
	And she claims that a huge light flooded in from above, so bright that she had to cover her eyes.
	The light went out, the electrics in the house reappeared.
	She went downstairs.
	All her friends said, where have you been?
	She said, I've been in the loo.
	And they said, you've been five or ten minutes.
	She didn't believe that.
	She checked the phones.
	The phones had gone off.
	They rebooted them and it had been five, ten minutes.
	She didn't think it was that long.
	Now, what Susan rationalized was, in Pembrokeshire, we discussed at the beginning how sparse it is and how isolated it is.
	Yeah, the power goes out sometimes.
	And we get helicopters that check the lines.
	Very, very common see red helicopters just flying very low, right?
	This is, we're looking at around 2009.
	So we, drones are available, but they're not as prominent now.
	She thought that maybe an engineering truck was coming down the track while a helicopter went over and she didn't really give it much thought.
	Now, to anybody out there, they might think, oh my God, that's too rational.
	No, she just wasn't on that wavelength that me, you and your listeners are on.
	You know, it wasn't sung on our radar.
	So the lads who were supposed to come said they couldn't come.
	They claimed their car broke down.
	That is no way, shape or form, coincidental, part of this story.
	That is a coincidence.
	I think if this weird lights had broke their car down 30 miles away, 30 minutes away, there would have been an epidemic of cars breaking down over Pembrokeshire and made national use.
	So that is just an aside.
	So it came about two in the morning.
	By Susan's own admission, they'd had quite a bit to drink.
	The girls were ready for bed.
	Now, next to the farmhouse was a barn that the bottom half had been converted into a garage and the upstairs into a holiday flat, like a place for visitors to stay.
	Now the girl whose house it was had a dog and Susan had bags-eyed the dog to come and stay with her in that holiday villa, the holiday apartment.
	Now the reason she did have an agenda why she wanted to go out into that holiday home was that she smoked.
	She smoked cigarettes and she didn't want anybody to know.
	It's a dirty little secret because of the profession they were all going to go into so people can make up their minds on what that was.
	So she went across.
	It was only 10, 20 seconds walk.
	She stood outside.
	The dog ran upstairs.
	She had a cigarette, flicked it out, closed the door, locked it, went upstairs.
	She got into bed.
	The dog was on the bed.
	And she claims around three o'clock in the morning that she was disturbed by a noise.
	She sat upright thinking, was this a dream?
	Was this real?
	And that huge columns of light came through the skylights in the roof of this holiday cottage.
	She thought she saw a figure.
	The dog leapt at the figure.
	There was a flash.
	There was another flash and she heard like a whelping of pain.
	There was a final flash and she thought she saw some kind of man or being with a very smooth face, almost she described it as having like a crash helmet on back to front.
	She went back to sleep or the next thing she knew, it was like seven in the morning.
	She thought she'd had this horrific dream, a very strange dream.
	The glass was knocked over by the side of a bed where she had water in.
	She just assumed She'd knocked it over.
	The dog wasn't on the bed, so she assumed again.
	As I said, this is a really rational woman, and in her account, she desperately tries to rationalize everything.
	Even now, she's trying to rationalize it because she doesn't want to believe this happened.
	She had tremendous pains in her back, in her head, in her eyes.
	She described it as having severe period pains.
	She had diarrhea.
	She had a nosebleed.
	She went to the loo.
	She made herself, she made her way back to the main house.
	She got into bed with her main friend and said, oh, did you come and get the dog?
	And she said, what do you want about?
	She said, well, you come over in the morning to get the dog.
	She said, no, you took him last night.
	The dog was never seen again.
	It just vanished.
	It had just gone.
	They never knew what had happened.
	So the friends blamed Susan for being irresponsible and not locking the door.
	And that was the first of many, many events.
	So that one, all of us can tear out apart and say, well, yeah, it could have been this.
	It could have been that.
	But then what follows in Harvest, the True Story of Alien Adduction, just starts getting more and more strange, more and more surreal, that we either got to go down the route of, is this something happening which is beyond our comprehension, or is this a mental health breakdown?
	Okay, what do you think?
	Do you know what, Howard?
	I'm going to be really honest with you right now, okay?
	If me and you had had this conversation, say, four years ago, okay, I would have said it's very worrying, it's very scary, but you know, there are lots of similar cases out there.
	There are lots of people all over the world that are having these cases, right?
	But this is why things are different now.
	I'm not going to say to you how I'm 100% believing.
	I'm just saying that swingometer has started to change.
	My whole belief systems are sitting on the fence, slightly changing.
	You've got to think, this book was handed over to the publisher in 2000.
	I said 2017 earlier.
	It was actually 2019, okay?
	So, Howard, like for years, researchers claimed that the United States government was running a top-secret program and research into the UFO phenomenon, yeah?
	Time and time again, Euphorus denied everything, telling the media and the public there was no official interest in the subject.
	And UFOs have been written off for years as mirages, misidentifications, hoaxes, and delusions, or at best prototype aircraft and missiles operated by the US or maybe from a country like Russia or China.
	Even though Project Blue Book investigated over 12,000 UFO sightings, 701 remain a complete mystery, right?
	So UFOs, they've been seen by police, military people, commercial aviators, doctors, nurses, politicians, royalty scientists, even presidents, right?
	But the media, as we discussed earlier, right, normally ignores it or ridicules it, portraying people as conspiracy nuts and fantasists, little green men in tinfoil hats, yeah?
	So Mikhail, pardon me, Mikhail Gorbachev, leader of the second most powerful nation at the time in the mid-80s after UFOs, after the United States, said the phenomenon of UFOs is real and it must be treated seriously.
	So the Russians have believed in UFOs and strange vehicles for decades.
	But I bet many people listening now have had their own experiences and believe that they're not fantasists.
	A lot of people do, and I'm taking this on face value, as my listener will be.
	There was one occasion in the book where Susan came apparently into communication with her dead grandmother.
	Yeah.
	Well, what I was just going to say was, like, what swung me, I will speak about it, but what swung me, Howard, was in December 2017, the conspiracy theories all came true.
	There was an actual UFO project, and these objects had been tracked and chased by our best aircraft and pilots and outmatched and outmaneuvered by these objects.
	We're talking about the Tic Tac videos and these strange, you know, footage that the United States Air Force and the Pentagon had originally chased and taken.
	And the story didn't break on some UFO forum and conspiracy website, but a fact-checked article in the New York Times.
	So this got me thinking after the publication of the book about what if more of this is more real than meets the eye.
	Now, what you're talking about with Susan and her grandmother was Susan had been building up these layers of experience from physical sightings, which witnesses claim to have also seen, which was reported, to more surreal, cerebral kind of encounters where she'd had three nights in a row, she claimed to have had very, very surreal, vivid dreams that all started the same way.
	They followed the same tropes.
	And she would end up in a bar in Halford West in the stream.
	It'd be empty.
	It'd be all festive.
	And she would sit there and there would be a different person there every night.
	And this person would interview her, but through telepathy.
	And the first person was her grandmother.
	And she was acting as like an advocate, as a spokesperson for her friends.
	And Susan always got the sense that there was someone else in the room, someone shadowy else in the room with her.
	And she was presented lots of strange images of Pembrokeshire.
	She was, in one instance, she was interviewed by her childlike self, who was asking her questions such as very much about emotional and kind of mental responses, like, if it was a fire, who would you save, mum or dad?
	What a strange question to ask.
	Things of this nature.
	And Susan found this terrible, this ordeal horrific.
	But the third night, something was happened to her.
	It's very, very common in alien experiences and abductees on both sides of the spectrum.
	Because I've got to just say for clarification, not every alien abduction is horrific.
	Not every alien abduction is claimed to have been bad.
	We know that there are some people, I've talked to them on this show, who they have nightmares about it.
	It may only have happened once, but they will have ongoing lifetime nightmares about the experience, some celebrated, famous cases.
	Okay, so she was having all of these experiences.
	And the grandmother thing, what about that?
	Well, the grandmother was basically just introducing her to the notion of friendly face.
	Her grandmother, I might just add, had been dead for several years.
	She died of cancer.
	So Susan's in this very vivid dream state, being interviewed by a grandmother who's acting as an advocate on behalf of these beings who that she can't see.
	And when we use the term alien, you know, there's a lot of people say, well, they're not alien, they're dimensional.
	Okay, label them as you want.
	You know, I don't have all the answers.
	I'm presenting you this testimony to help you understand, you know, to cement your own belief systems.
	So the grandmother showed all these images of Pembrokeshire.
	Susan would end up in like a cinema, very strange, and she'd be presented very graphic images, often with animal cruelty.
	Susan would have a terrible pain in her head.
	She'd wake up.
	And on the third night, she was presented, something is very, very common in a lot of alien abduction cases on either side of the spectrum with an apocalyptic vision of Pembrokeshire, the estuary in particular, which has got this huge oil refinery base, literally on fire.
	The ocean's on fire.
	Well, but for years, look, I grew up watching Welsh television.
	They've been, they do emergency exercises because there's the Milford Haven oil refinery, which is one of the biggest in these islands.
	And a lot of oil comes in there and gets refined there.
	You know, they have to be very conscious of safety.
	And from what I understand, they do periodic exercises.
	And I think they talk about it on television just to make sure that the area could be evacuated and any emergency could be dealt with.
	So she might just have been influenced by that.
	Yeah, of course.
	And I agree with that.
	I mean, you know, I don't want to knock the story down, but I'm just saying that that might play into it.
	Of course, because anybody who lives in Pembrokeshire, and if you visited Pembrokeshire, when you see those LNG ships come in and all those oil tankers, you just know that if one of those goes, it's, you know, I used to work for the local paper and the estimates of what would happen, what if scenarios was pretty terrifying.
	I remember in the 1990s, lightning hit an oil drum.
	It was literally an oil drum.
	And it shook the window in my house and we were eight miles away.
	My uncle who lived in Milford America blew his fence off his gate.
	Yeah, that's what we're talking.
	We're talking about a minuscule explosion.
	So she had some kind of vision of something bad that might happen there.
	Or was she told that it was her job to try and stave that off?
	You tell me.
	Well, this is the thing.
	There's a little ambiguity in regards to what the message was.
	Now, people who've had positive experiences believe that these alien beings, if you want to call them that, dimensional beings, whatever label you want to give them, okay?
	They are showing us the impact we are having on our planet and that we have the ability to change it.
	While as other experiences, their interpretation is that what we are doing is futile.
	Don't try and resist what we are doing to you.
	We're going to come and do what we want regardless.
	Now, there's a great book that came out this year called Escaping from Eden by Paul Anthony Wallace.
	He's a fantastic guy.
	It was a bestseller, okay?
	And from his research, again, this is his research, it's not mine.
	He believes that from his people he's interviewed, there is a cabal of alien beings that they all have their designs on us.
	Some of them think we are ready for spiritual enhancement and that we are ready to level up to the next level.
	Well, some of them see us little more than animals, that we're tribalistic, violent, and we're a virus, okay?
	So one of the questions is, right, and I get this asked all the time, Howard, and I guarantee it's on your sheet of paper, right?
	If there are aliens coming to this world to experiment and harvest and hybridize us, why don't they just get on with it?
	You know, what are we going to do to stop it, right?
	But based on Paul's idea, this cabal, it got me thinking, right?
	If I came to your house, Howard, and I came into your, broke into your house, went in your wallet, and I took all your money and credit cards out, right?
	You'd call the police.
	But if I snuck into your house and I took a pound every day, chances are you wouldn't even notice, okay?
	So if you do the maths on this, if this is to be true and how they could possibly be doing it and getting away with it, because Susan did say she saw thousands of people in some kind of structure.
	If there's 250 countries on the planet, give or take, yeah, I know like Vatican City and some countries, probably like too small.
	If every day you took two people from Canada, two from the United States, two from Mexico, and so on and so forth, right?
	That's 500 people a day.
	That's two and a half thousand a week.
	What's that?
	Quarter million a year?
	That's so on and so forth, right?
	People that vanish, never seen before, right?
	So on average, right?
	625,000 people go missing in the United States, right?
	Of course, the majority of explanations, murders, suicides, they've had enough, dropped out, cults, you name it, right?
	But the 1.74% are unsolved mysteries, right?
	They just vanish into thin air with no explanation, right?
	Where do they go?
	Okay.
	One person goes missing every 90 seconds in the UK.
	Susan didn't vanish.
	She talked to you.
	Yeah, she did talk to me.
	But what she says is that she saw people on this structure that were entirely harvested.
	That's what she's gradual.
	She thinks she's got the explanation for why people, and they are disappearing.
	You know, I've spoken to people like David Paul Leidis.
	People do just disappear.
	Like, there's all kinds of, you know, as I just said, you know, people go missing.
	People have enough.
	You know, I've had enough sometimes, and I wish I could just get on a plane to Sri Lanka and just live in a hut down there, you know, especially during this whole pandemic.
	Now, look, one of the things you say about Susan's experiences is that she experienced them.
	They were unique to her.
	But there was one, wasn't there, in the book, that not only Susan experienced.
	I mean, look, there was the first experience, the thing I should have asked you about that gathering of the girls and that night of the boys and girls together in the farmhouse.
	Have you spoken to those people who would have verified the story?
	No, Susan did not want me to approach them.
	They don't speak to me.
	Some of my listeners may be saying that's quite convenient.
	Okay.
	But one of these things was a ball of light, one of her later experiences that you say was also experienced by others.
	But just to say in my defense, Howard, regarding one in the house, if I got three women on to say, oh yeah, all the lights went out and the dog went missing, that doesn't really prove one way or the other.
	It's just three women who didn't have the same thing.
	Yeah, they said the lights went out and the dog went missing, you know.
	So, like, you know, Susan has no friends anymore, she has no relationship with her family.
	She believes that whoever gets involved with her is opening themselves up for this.
	She actually, at one stage, is worries about my safety, you know, and with recent events, which we won't talk about.
	We were talking before the show, things certainly have taken a strange turn for me.
	But she did claim to see a big red orange orb on the estuary with her then boyfriend, who's called Adrian in the book.
	And other people did see that.
	It was reported.
	Now, that doesn't make it real.
	It just means that she could have just gone and looked for UFO sightings and said, well, on that night, I was here as well.
	You know, unless we get, I don't think we'll ever be able to have that proof until we all have that experience all at the same time.
	We all walk outside our house and there's something in the sky all across the world, something that we know isn't the sun or a satellite or a plane.
	That is the only time we're ever, ever going to all have that shared experience of UFOs are real.
	Or as they're called now, unidentified aerial phenomenon.
	That's the new name for them.
	Why, if Susan was targeted by something, why do you think they picked her?
	Why does she think?
	She believes that there's the possibility, and this is just an idea.
	There's no proof one way or the other.
	She believes that aliens are interested in bloodlines.
	Now, speaking to other people since Harvest, the true story of alien abduction has been released.
	Some people do believe the ones that have had the positive experiences that who claim to still be in touch with what they call their handlers, that they have like an ET representative, that they believe that because of the difference in physiology and biology, that these creatures live a lot longer than us, they have more ability to travel time, space, and whatnot, that they actually manage whole timelines.
	So that being, and I'm not saying this is true in the slightest, I have no evidence of this.
	This is just what someone said, and I'd love to get people's theories on this, that an alien being would be able to see a whole timeline going back thousands of years of a particular timeline, a family line.
	So what this one woman I spoke to claims was that from that, they can see biological changes, environmental changes, and genetic changes on individuals.
	Okay, so there are reasons they were interested, are interested in her, that she wouldn't have known about and you wouldn't have known about, but they do.
	Yeah, like if we look at it this way, right, what these alien or dimensional beings, whatever label people want to give them, right, whatever their motives and agenda are, right, we cannot question.
	It would snap the elasticity of our comprehension to try and even figure out what an advanced and more sophisticated, ancient, alien or dimensional race would want with us, right?
	Think about us, right?
	Just as a moment.
	And can I just say, I'm not like a pious environmentalist, animal activist.
	I care about animals.
	I am pro-life, but that's not a key part of my life.
	It's not what I write about, right?
	If you look at how we treat animals, right?
	How we treat our environment, we're not very good to it.
	If you think about how we farm, right?
	We don't worry about what the cows thinking when we're eating our steaks, unless you're a vegan or a vegetarian.
	You don't worry about how that lamb chop got on your plate or that chicken drumstick or that bass on your plate, right?
	We treat animals as an inferior species to our own, right?
	Whether we domesticate them, we herd them, we eat them, we treat them like insects, whatever the case, right?
	We are the dominant thing on the planet.
	That's what we believe, right?
	If, and it's a huge if, if there are alien or dimensional beings coming into this world, and that the Pentagon and the United States Air Force videos do seem to suggest strange objects are coming into our world.
	Hence, we've got to start thinking, who are these beings and what do they want, right?
	Well, what do they want with us?
	Are we the cattle?
	Do you know, think about this, howard, this is horrific, right?
	And, you know, I doubt this applies to any of your listeners, but there's cultures on our planet that use animals like dolphins and sharks and whales as aphrodisiacs.
	They kill an animal to get their rocks off, right?
	How do we know what the intentions are of a superior race?
	It's like you, Howard, saying to a rabbit in a cage, guess what?
	I'm going to get in the car today and I'm going to buy a microwave meal and put it in the microwave.
	That rabbit doesn't know what you're on about.
	It's a different species.
	And I don't want to discredit the human race and I don't want to challenge anyone, but they are top of the food channel.
	All right, let's get it back to Susan because we're going to have to wrap this up.
	But what's her situation now?
	If I was Susan, and again, I've never spoken with her, and maybe for the sake of my listener, it would be good if you could put me in touch with her and I could get this story from the person that it originates from.
	Otherwise, I'm going to be thinking this is a bit far-fetched for me.
	So that would be quite useful.
	You know, what kind of, it doesn't sound to me if she's got no friends, she's in another country now.
	She's not in a good place by the sounds of it.
	Maybe I'm wrong about that.
	No, you're right.
	You're absolutely right.
	And I think the catharsicism of giving me her testimonial, her account, she described it almost like a eulogy, like this was her final proof that she ever existed.
	And that sounds very, very, what's the world I'm looking for, very dramatic.
	But she believes this has happened.
	I can't prove it's happened.
	You can't prove it happened.
	No one can.
	We have no idea what's coming in and out of our atmosphere.
	We have no idea what the intentions of these beings are, if they are.
	She's traveling at the moment.
	She's decided that if they are going to come and take her, then she might as well just keep living because she was just basically hiding out, just trying to keep awake at night.
	And when you read Harvest's True Story of Alien Abduction, you do get a huge documentation of her experiences.
	You also get what she believes was her experience on board some kind of structure.
	I don't want to say spacecraft because I think that would be, we don't really know what it was, but she was on a huge vehicle or this building, which was definitely very alien with hundreds of different women in there.
	Did she talk to them?
	At the beginning, it was impossible to because they had done something to her physiologically.
	But when she went into different sections, there was just fear, absolutely fear.
	And she, this is what interested me, Howard: is how many people have you spoken to about alien abduction or dimensional being abduction cases where they've had to undergo some form of regression to get that information out?
	Susan remembers this, and that's one of the reasons I thought I'm very interested in this case.
	Because if she remembers this, I'm going to present it to the readers.
	This is her belief.
	This is mental health.
	This is what's happened in Pembrokeshire in our past.
	This is what other people believe.
	You're saying this is mental health.
	That sounds to me like you've decided that some of her experiences, and I can't judge anything, and it's not fair.
	It sounds like you're judging some of this as a mental health issue.
	No, I think when I'm talking about that.
	So, you're saying that it's the trauma that she's been through that's caused her a mental issue.
	There's a huge amount of trauma.
	I am not a quantum physicist.
	I have not the answers of time, space, and the human mind.
	I'm just a man from Wales that is interested, and I've got a good skill at interviewing people and drawing that testimony out.
	It's a hell of a story, Gavin.
	One question that I've got for you at the end of this.
	There are at least a couple of organizations that sincerely attempt to assist and give mutual aid, in other words, you know, the strength in numbers, to people who say that they've had experiences like this.
	You will know who they are.
	Why didn't you put Susan in touch with one of them?
	Of course I have.
	What's it going to do?
	Like, think about it this way, right?
	Well, it might give her some support.
	Sorry, I've interrupted you, but.
	No, like, she was, and she didn't feel that was the way she wanted to go.
	She didn't feel that sat there would make any difference.
	The way she looks at it, okay, and this is her view, and I don't want to challenge anyone or make anyone feel uncomfortable, is once these things have got their eye on you, there's nothing anyone's going to do.
	You can go to the police, you can get a gun, you can get mace, you can go to self-defense.
	They're going to come and get you.
	Who am I to say?
	I'm just a little guy doing this, but if I was in that situation, I'd feel a hell of a lot better if I could talk to other people in the same situation.
	We live in the world of the internet.
	We've got the online, we've got the whole thing.
	If she wants to speak to people, and maybe she has, it's all out there for her.
	Of course, I suggested it.
	I actually suggested that she speak to a doctor as well, which is in the book.
	And did she do that?
	But it's in the book again.
	All right.
	Well, Gavin, I mean, look, like last time we spoke about the house, this is a hell of a story.
	There are people you will know who will say this is just made up because there's nothing much to substantiate it.
	And, you know, it sounds like a tall tale.
	And it's going to sound like a tall tale to some people.
	And my jury has to be out.
	I don't know.
	I've never met her.
	I've never spoken with her.
	So the next thing we need to do, I think, in order to make sense of this, is if you can make it possible for me to have even a two-minute conversation with this person.
	I don't need to know her real name.
	I just need to be able to get a sense of who this person is, right?
	And if you're able to make that happen for me, then we take this forward.
	The other thing I would say is that I know people are going to want to have their say about this.
	Some of them are going to want to have their say to you.
	And I know that you don't mind getting communications from people.
	So I'm saying to my listener, if you have a view, either a view of support, in other words, that happened to me and I can support Susan, or you want to say that is the most outrageous thing I've ever heard in my life.
	It's clearly made up and you want to tell Gavin that.
	How do people contact you, Gavin?
	It would be at harvestalienabduction at gmail.com.
	That's harvestalienabduction at gmail.com.
	I've had hundreds of emails since I've brought this book on.
	And have you had people who've supported this?
	Everyone has supported it so far.
	People are finding common threads.
	I think that with anything to do with the paranormal, you know, whether it's this story or Loch Ness Monster or the moon landings, we can't prove anything until it's provable, okay?
	It's like some people I know, they've put like a picture of a light and said it was Scylla Black's ghost, right?
	I'm not doing that.
	Well, I mean, look, again, I don't want to go there, but I hear what you say.
	And I'm not giving you a hard time.
	I'm just kind of trying to anticipate some of the stuff that some of the people who email me will say to you.
	So I'm going to leave that between you and them.
	I think it's an amazing story.
	And I also feel a bit sorry for her if she's been through all of this and hasn't got the support that she needs.
	But I'm going to leave all of that with you.
	Honestly, it's an amazing story.
	We're all about amazing stories here, Gavin.
	You better give the title of the book again.
	It's Harvest, the True Story of Alien Abduction.
	What I'd really like is, right, just to follow up on what Howard is saying, okay, I've written this testimony.
	I'm not here to tell you it is real or not real.
	What I'm doing is I'm giving you one woman's, as best my ability, her testimony for you to read.
	I'm never one stage going to say, oh, this is real or this is fake.
	Everybody has their own opinion.
	Everyone has their own paradigms on what is acceptable and non-acceptable.
	Everyone gets challenged by different things.
	What I would love, if you read Harvest, the True Story of Alien Abduction, is to contact me at harvestalienabduction at gmail.com or through the paranormalchronicles.com, okay?
	And give me your ideas because that is how we learn.
	That is how we can shed light on this.
	The more of us that get involved and the more of us give a sensible opinion.
	Yeah, if you just say it's rubbish, I'll just ignore you because I'll just say, are you a doctor in quantum physics or a psychologist?
	I can anticipate, you know, my psychic abilities after lockdown are a bit depleted, Gavin.
	But there are going to be some people who say that it's far-fetched.
	And there are some people who are going to say, I've got a friend that that's happened to, or that's happened to me.
	I can almost anticipate that.
	So I think you'll get some response of that.
	I'd be interested to know what response you do get.
	Can I just say, right, if this is real, Howard, then think of all Those thousands of people going back all through our history to cave paintings where they talk about abductions.
	If human beings have been harvested by an unknown race and our planet is defenseless to stop it happening, that is the most terrifying thing ever.
	That is a huge threat to mankind, and there's nothing we can do to stop it.
	Well, it wouldn't seem so, but I mean, that's a whole other debate.
	I know that's one of the main planks of this story, that she saw these people who allegedly had been taken away from here.
	I mean, look, it's on a whole variety of levels, it's an amazing story.
	And I'm going to leave my listener to judge it as my listener will, because I don't know what to think.
	But that's good.
	That means that I keep a clear and balanced mind about it.
	And that's where I'd rather be.
	Just keep saying, if you start seeing little orange lights chasing you, Howard, give me a shout and we'll hide out somewhere.
	Well, I may be hiding under the table by that time, Kevin.
	Thank you very much.
	Kevin, take care.
	Thank you.
	Thank you for the wonderful opportunity and thank you to all your listeners.
	And I do hope you all keep safe.
	Thank you for your time tonight.
	Your thoughts on any of my shows, including this one, welcome.
	Please go to my website, theunexplained.tv.
	More great guests in the pipeline here at the Home of the Unexplained.
	So until next, we meet.
	My name is Howard Hughes.
	This has been The Unexplained Online.
	And please, whatever you do, stay safe, stay calm.
	And above all, please stay in touch.
	Thank you very much.
	Take care.

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