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Dec. 28, 2020 - The Unexplained - Howard Hughes
48:56
Edition 507 - Paul Sinclair
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Across the UK, across continental North America and around the world on the internet, by webcast and by podcast, my name is Howard Hughes and this is the Unexplained.
Well, I hope you're feeling good.
I hope that Christmas passed by as eventfully as you wanted it to.
An awful lot of people just kind of staying at home hunkering down in the middle of the ongoing COVID crisis that appears to be getting worse in the United Kingdom, according to news reports.
So I hope that you're staying safe in the middle of all of this.
I did a couple of radio shows, extra ones, not unexplained shows, over the holiday period.
And that sort of took my mind off things.
I was basically working from here and doing the shows across the UK.
So it was nice to be with you on the 24th late night and the 26th late night of December.
We did some things that we don't normally do.
Also caught up with Gary Hesseltine.
We talked about something that the media seems to have pretty much missed.
The 40th anniversary of Rendlesham Forest.
They called it, of course, the UK's Roswell.
Amazing events that happened across a number of nights at the end of 1980, exactly 40 years ago.
And most of the media mentioned it sketchily or didn't mention it at all.
So we did do something with Gary on one of those shows just to remind people who perhaps might have forgotten what went on and also to talk about his new documentary that's coming out soon as being slightly delayed, Capal Green.
So that was basically my Christmas.
What else happened?
Oh, yes.
Christmas dinner, a disaster this year.
My oven, which is way too old and needs replacing, finally decided that it's one outing of the year, which is usually at Christmas.
It was not going to play ball for.
So my oven died, and I ended up eating microwave food on Christmas Day.
So I think all in all, we got through Christmas 2020, and, you know, all of us, didn't we?
And I think we're just kind of looking forward to, perhaps, hopefully, soon enough, some better times, don't you think?
Now, the guest on this edition of the show, very special guest, a big friend of this show and a big friend of mine, Paul Sinclair from the Truth Proof Books and Investigations, with a lot of new stuff that he provided for my radio show, and I wanted you to hear it here on the podcast.
If you want to make contact with me, and thank you for all of the lovely emails, by the way, that I've had over Christmas, the nice things you've said, and the emails that have sustained me over this holiday period, it was so kind of you to get in touch.
If you've made a donation to the online show over Christmas, thank you very, very much for that.
It all helps me to keep going into another year.
So thank you.
If you want to get in touch, go to the website, theunexplained.tv.
Follow the link, and you can send me an email from there.
If you give me an idea in the subject line what the email is about, that would help too.
Because I'm getting more and more email now from every corner of the world, as they say, which is really nice.
So theunexplained.tv, designed and created by Adam from Creative Hotspot in Liverpool.
That's the place to go if you want to contact me.
Follow the contact link and it's all there set up for you.
All right, let's get to Yorkshire now.
Paul Sinclair is there with a Christmas update and a new year update from his truth-proof investigations.
Paul, how are you doing?
I'm very good, thank you, Howard.
And as I always say, great to be speaking to you.
And I'm looking forward to just sharing a few bits of information with you.
And we'll just take it with just wherever you want to go with it, Howard.
All right.
Well, before we do that, are you surprised at how the reports that you've been getting and the things that keep happening have continued to churn over, maybe even sped up a little during this year of 2020 when a lot of the nation has been locked down?
The actual information, it slowed down middle of the year, but I would think the last six to four weeks, there's been a lot of activity again, particularly these unexplained lights seen in the sky.
And there's been a few reports, strange cryptid reports.
And, you know, I've been following them up.
I've managed to keep busy.
Luckily, you know, the job or the work that I'm doing involves going to places where there's nobody around.
So we're quite safe as regards social distancing and things.
So it never surprises me because you just never know when these strange phenomena are going to appear.
There's no rhyme or reason to them.
It just happens.
You know, you could go six months with nothing and then all of a sudden you've got a cluster of things happening and not necessarily things that are alike, but they're all happening within the same timeframe, which is another thing that sort of intrigues and puzzles me.
You know, you get the cat sightings, and I know I've done this before, Howard, then you get the lights and then you get other strange anomalies happening.
And in the past, I don't think people had put them all together.
And I don't mean I'm unique here.
I mean just in this particular area, you know, you might get a report of a cat, but nobody's looked for the reports.
Some rock anglers have seen strange lights and you're thinking, how does this fit?
What is the connection, if a connection at all?
And indeed, that's one thing that's come out of your work over the last few years, is that sometimes there are these sort of confluences of events.
I remember you telling me, and it stuck with me, there was a spate of cat disappearances, wasn't there, that went hand in hand with all sorts of other occurrences.
That's correct.
And when you, I think there's been a few.
The cat spikes in domestic cat disappearances are quite rare, but there's been a few over the years.
And I think there were one in 2006.
And the cats were going missing.
And it were only when you looked at the newspapers and then contacted the RSPCA or the cat protection that you realized just how many.
I mean, over a period of about two weeks, I managed to correlate about 37 cats that had gone from the area.
But I don't think anybody actually linked them up because there were all different organisations getting reports of these cats as well as the local newspapers saying, you know, the cats are going missing.
And strangest things, I mean, obviously, we've not planned to talk about this out, but I remember the newspaper reporting that seven cats had been found wandering in Bridlington town together that nobody claimed, nobody knew who they belonged to.
It sounds a bit corny, but it's as though they've just been sort of dropped there.
They just appeared.
Nobody ever claimed these cats, as far as I know, anyway.
Then there were other cats being found with horrific injuries.
Now, obviously, Howard, we can't put it down to unexplained phenomena because we've no proof of it.
It could be humans.
And presumably at the time, I'm sure, the owners will have made sure that the police were investigating those things, too.
Well, yeah, yeah.
And the vets were involved, you know, with the cats that had actually come into their surgeries.
And it would have a bad time.
As I say, and the spikes in the cat disappearances and the cat mutilations are quite rare.
But when it happened, it happened in large numbers in what is essentially a sleepy seaside town.
I mean, that was one of the strange things.
I think, wasn't it?
Tell me if I'm wrong about this.
And then we'll move on to other stuff.
But there were also electrical disturbances, power outages, and that sort of thing happening.
Yeah, I think one of the chapters, I think you were in Truth Proof 2, and that's part of the title of the chapter heading.
And they were, they were sort of mass power outages, particularly on Bempton Lane and in Flambre and no reported lightning or severe weather conditions, yet we were getting these blackouts in conjunction with when these animals were going missing.
And we were getting UFO reports, people reporting seeing unidentified flying objects.
You know, I mean, once again, I can't say A is linked to B because we can't prove it.
It just seems strange that we didn't just get cat disappearances and nothing else.
We got these other things happening at the same time.
We didn't get UFO sightings and nothing else.
But I think in the past, Howard, there's probably been these links have probably been there all the time.
It's just a matter of looking for them.
It's a matter of now it becomes on your radar.
It's worth looking for other things that might be happening in conjunction with the other strange anomalies that are occurring.
And they're there the present.
And I don't think this area is unique.
I've said before, I think other areas around the UK, around the world, will be displaying exactly the same things.
It's just been, I don't think, good enough.
I'm fortunate that I've got time to do this now.
If I were working, I don't know, eight till five, I couldn't devote the time I'm devoting to doing this.
And that's absolutely the point, isn't it, Paul?
That I've come to believe since I've been speaking with you that these things do indeed happen all over the country.
In fact, earlier in the program, we spoke with Rick Minter, the big cat investigator.
He's had a bumper year of big cat sightings and investigations, some of which are astonishing.
But I think these things go on in every area.
It's not just that you live in a triangle of, you know, a triangle of weirdness.
In fact, they do go on everywhere.
But the problem is that a lot of people just don't have the time to report them.
And there are not people like you in every area who are collating the reports and saying, look, these things all happened around the same time.
Don't you think this is at least odd?
I would agree entirely.
Yeah, we're not unique in this area.
It's happening all over the place.
And, you know, it just needs people, feet on the ground, want to sit in archives, looking if there's patterns when they've had spikes of UFO activity, seeing what else actually fits in the weeks before and after these sightings.
And you'll find that that information is there.
And that's what makes it so interesting to me.
Yep, no, I think so too.
All right, let's dive into it then, because that's, you know, my listener wants the good stuff.
By the way, just before we do dive into it, it's my fault for doing this.
Are you getting more contacts from the public now?
I get a lot of people emailing me asking about you.
And I think a lot of those people are now approaching you directly as well now.
They are, yeah.
I'm getting lots and lots of reports.
And I always try to respond and answer people.
It's not just UFO related.
Well, it's alien abduction type related reports and stories and accounts personal to the individual who's contacting me or individuals.
That's due to writing Night People and it seems to have struck a chord because there's things in it that they can relate to, which is good for me.
It sort of validates what I'm talking about.
Well, of course, Night People came as a surprise to me.
And you said to me, do you mind me talking about this?
And I said, of course, Paul, it's part of your experience.
Your own contact experiences over many years.
And you were brave enough to write about those in Night People.
We'll talk about that a little later.
Okay, let's dive in then.
December the 14th, 13 days ago now, under a fortnight, recent sightings in the area, lights off the east and north Yorkshire coast.
In particular, you sent me a photograph which not only is beautifully composed, but also has off the coast of that area, and you'll tell me precisely where this is, the most astonishing formulation of lights as a triangle.
And just to my listener, I'm going to post this on my Facebook page.
The official Facebook page will be unexplained with Howard used.
If that's all right with you and the photographer, Paul, tell me yes.
Is it?
I think it will be.
He's given me permission to use it, but I can message him after this show.
Great.
Okay.
Just get confirmation of that.
So I'll post the picture.
But what we can do, because this is radio, will describe it.
And it is an astonishing photograph.
And this is in an area of previous activity.
So talk to me about the area first.
This is an area.
He couldn't estimate exactly how far it was off Flamborough Head, but I'm looking at it.
And I think we're looking at 12 to 15 miles, which is interesting because it's an area where aircraft have tragically gone down off the head.
And it's the area where there's been lots and lots of lifeboat call outs over the years to distress flares, which has been suspected as an aircraft gone down or fired up from a boat that's in distress and nine-hour call-outs, five-hour call-outs, multiple lifeboats.
And the guys, the crews at Flamborough Head Lifeboat Station, who will be on duty now as they are 24-7, 365, have told you about these things too.
Well, Bridlington lifeboat in particular, I've spoken to them more.
I have spoken to people at Flamborough and obviously I've found all these reports in old lifeboat logs and archives in the newspapers.
And these call outs, these shouts have been genuine and serious enough to launch Flamborough Lifeboat, Bridlington, Hornsey, Filey, all looking for some vessel or aircraft that's in distress and all-night searches and found nothing.
Even lights under the sea.
This particular picture, though, 13 days ago, is a beautifully composed picture.
What you've got is a sort of bay, very rocky because that's the nature of the coast there.
You know, big, imposing cliffs, a boiling and beautiful sea, a sky that is full of bubbling cloud.
And then to the right-hand side of this picture is something very weird.
Yeah, you've got three orange lights.
And this guy traveled, I don't know where he traveled from, it leads, I believe.
And he's an amateur photographer, but I think we can step it up a bit because I've since found out that he actually teaches photography.
Well, that's how he described himself to me when I asked him if I could use the photograph.
And he set up a tripod and a remote control on a very expensive camera and was taking photographs with a 30-second time-lapse to gather as much light and just to take an absolutely brilliant shot of the night sky.
And whilst he was doing this, he noted that one single orange sphere lit up in the sky during the 30-second sequence, then another, and then a third one.
And he managed to take the photograph while these objects were still in the sky.
He estimated that they stayed there in the same position for, he believes, 15 seconds, 12 to 15 seconds is what he said.
And I think if he's counting down for his photograph to be taken, he'd have been pretty accurate with that.
So what we've done with this photograph, because we've got an expert and I'm no expert at photographs or photography, should we say, we've got a guy who's saying, look, these are stationary.
They came on and there's no motion blur.
The stars look crisp in the background to these objects.
So whatever it was, it wasn't flares drifting with the wind.
It wasn't afterburners from aircraft.
This photograph has managed to rule out all the staple explanations.
So I'm very grateful.
And he's been very lucky because obviously he didn't go there planning to take a picture of unexplained lights over the sea at Flamborough.
But these are the lights that myself, Steve Ashbridge, Bob Brown, we've been going up there trying to film on decent camcorders, but still not adequate for these low-light conditions for years and years.
I mean, we spent an untold number of hours up there.
And we will continue to do so because we saw the lights.
I saw them on the 15th and managed to get three short clips of film of them.
This is before this guy, before I became aware of this photograph.
And were they the same?
Did they look the same?
Oh, yeah, yeah, exactly.
Except that sometimes they'll go into a row of four or five and switch off and they'll appear in a different part of the sky instantly.
Now, whether that's the same ones or there's just others just appearing, they're not flying from anywhere, Howard.
They're just literally switching on in the sky.
It possibly started sooner than that because I do have a report from the 17th of November.
Ironically, 17th again.
Well, there's another sighting from 17th that we'll get to.
The 17th of November, and a chap sat in his living room in the early hours of the morning, 3.30 in the morning, overlooking the sea.
And he can see Flamborough Head and see Hull to his right-hand side.
So he's a great viewer.
He said, but he observed 15 spheres of light just light up to the right-hand side of the headland at Flamborough Head.
Sorry, just remind me when this was?
This was on the 17th of November.
Okay, let's just wind back, though, quickly, because I just want to tie off the 14th, I think, just before we do this.
But there was a series of days when stuff was happening there.
You know, what sort of conclusions then are we coming to about what happened on the 14th?
Because here we have a triangle of lights that almost look like a giant iron in the sky, like an old flat iron, as my grandmother would have said.
And it's weird, and you've seen these things too.
Other people have reported them too.
So, you know, we can say that they're unexplained, but what are you doing to try to find out what they might be?
Well, I want to get more documented evidence.
I mean, it's impossible to be out there 10 to 15 miles out.
I've had a trawler man tell me that they've opened up above their boats.
When I say opened up, that's the only way that you can really describe them because they just appear to come on.
It probably takes a fraction of a second to come on.
It's not instant, and they're just there.
And then they sort of implode.
Earlier this year, very early this year, I was up there with Chris Turner and a guy called Jerry Denning.
And Jerry was able to measure them.
I think I spoke to you about this, Howard, in Is It Kelvin?
Which sort of measures the heat.
And he was very surprised when he was looking at them.
They were totally different to, he's a lighting and sound engineer.
They were totally different.
I described them, but I don't think you were expecting them to be like he thought, you know, like he imagined, should I say.
These are the intelligent light forms, as I've termed them, that there is an awareness to them.
I mean, we've done this story, but I'll keep it brief.
I was up there with a rock angler and he was telling me about what he perceived as a spaceship landing on the nearby fields back in 1998.
And I asked him about the lights.
And he said he'd never seen them.
And there was me, Bob Brown, and the actual witness who was called Michael Sigson.
And I don't know how much time passed, probably 10, 15 minutes.
I said, that's what I'm talking about.
And two lit up above us, unbelievably.
And we looked at them.
I got the camera out.
They switched off.
The simplest way to describe it is this switched off.
Do you think they might have been reacting to you?
I think there's an intermind reaction to these things.
And it might sound a bit far-fetched to some people, a bit too way out.
But we have another report from an angler up there.
And we've done this one where he perceived what he was looking at a really bright, unusual star up in the heavens, and instantly it was above him.
Obviously, not a star, but it was the light that he'd been looking at, and it lit the ground up like a welder's torch.
Said the grass looked like it was silver.
It just stayed in that position for a number of seconds and then just vanished, shot away.
So there's definitely some kind of connection to these things.
And that could be the reason, Howard, that I've noticed when, at certain times, when I take people who've never been up there before and they're sort of full of expectation, these lights appear.
And I need to stress, people, we can go up for six months and see nothing.
So please don't think that if you went up onto this coastline, you know, Bridlington, Flamborough, Filey, that you're guaranteed to see something.
Unexplained phenomena will not perform to order.
But I have noted that when we've took people up who've never been before, things have happened.
And you've just got to be persistent and you've got to be lucky.
That's correct, yeah.
So in answer to your question, though, Howard, I'm no closer to discovering the origin or where these things come from and whether they're man-made or something other.
But they're not performing like anything man-made to me, and which takes me to we'll jump from the November sighting because there's an interesting sighting on the 17th.
A particularly interesting evening because three of us were on the cliff tops.
Need to stress here, social distancing, separate cars, and myself, Steve Ashbridge, and a lady called Amanda who's got an avid interest in all things unexplained.
And she'd bought a new camera.
And I'd told Steve about it.
I said, it's a really good low-light camera.
And I'm using a camcorder that we use for interviews as well, which were considerably more money than this camera of Amanda's.
However, for the job in hand, hers was a lot better.
I'd also got a thermal camera that I'd spent a few thousand pounds on with us as well.
So that's sort of crucial to this little bit of a story.
So she showed Steve the camera and he held it up looking inland because we're looking out to sea originally.
And where precisely are you?
We're on one of the bird stands, the viewing platforms at the bird sanctuary that overlooks the North Sea.
Right, that's a Bempton.
Yes.
So we're looking inland, just to the right, in between the old RAF base, RAF Bempton, and the RSPB visitor centre, which will probably both be about 500 yards away, either side of us.
And Steve suddenly went, there's two red lights in the sky.
Well, all three of us looked without the camera, and we couldn't, he's looking through this camera.
We couldn't see them.
So Amanda got her own camera and started recording.
Now, she's done a bit of a commentary.
I'm going to put it onto our website, truthproof.uk.
We'll put all the footage on.
She's gives us permission to do that.
And she's describing these red lights.
And Steve's also saying, like, this is amazing, Paul, because I could see them in the camera.
So I can see nothing.
Steve can see nothing at this stage.
He's got some high-powered binoculars scanning the sky because there's a bit of cloud.
He can't see anything.
I put the thermal camera on and I'm looking in the same area of sky with the thermal camera and no heat source is showing up.
So it's not like a cheap camera.
It's fairly expensive.
So we've ruled out, well, anything that's throwing out a heat signal.
So she's looking at these.
She filmed them for six minutes.
It's an incredible bit of footage filmed under little cameras called a psionics.
And it's a great camera.
Absolutely brilliant.
And this camera's managed to see something that six eyes, three people could not see with the naked eye.
So it just goes to show, Howard, that there's probably stuff there.
I don't mean on every occasion, but on other occasions.
So we've got another element to the phenomena and a camera that's managed to pick it up as well.
So these phenomena, sorry to jump in.
These phenomena are things that are not only visible to the naked human eye.
We know that there is a limit to what we can perceive.
There may be phenomena there much more often, but radiating in frequencies or in ways that we don't understand.
Well, I won't say we don't understand, but we cannot ourselves as humans register.
Exactly.
It's got to be because something within that camera's technology, within whatever it is that the makeup of it, allowed them to be seen.
And obviously the thermal couldn't pick them up.
I also tried with my Sony NX80 and I couldn't see them with that.
And as I say, Steve had got the eye-powered binoculars on and six minutes of footage and there's no mistaking it.
It's not a blurry light.
There's two lights that are bright and they look a whiter yellow colour.
Steve claimed that they were red when he first saw them, but they look a white yellow colour on film and they're moving.
They move all the way across the sky from the RSPB.
They are obviously further back.
I'm not trying to link them to the visitor center or the old REF base, but they move all the way across the sky and just go into the distance.
But no sound.
So just an unusual one that would open, I know eyes is the word, but it opened my eyes that there's stuff there actually that we're not even aware of.
It makes you wonder sometimes when you get that weird feeling.
I know with the, you know, particularly with the cryptid reports, these upright fur-covered creatures, people seem to perceive the presence long before they actually see it.
And that's the thing that interests me because we have been up there.
I don't mean every night or every visit, but we have been up there over the years when it's suddenly become uncomfortable.
It's felt off.
And obviously, just this little report, just this little sighting, and three people stood looking at it with the naked eye or trying to see it, and they can't, but the camera can.
So, there's things out there we can't see that are there.
Have you ever tried to measure or monitor microwave radiation there?
You know, look, we know that the eastern coast of the UK, and that's all the way down the coast from the east of Scotland where you are in Yorkshire, all the way down to East Anglia, down to Suffolk and Kent.
We know that there's traditionally been a lot of military operation there.
It was always the frontier, the last outpost of the Cold War, really.
You know, next stop, the Baltic and Russia and all the rest of it.
So we've had over-the-horizon radar and all sorts of stuff going for years there.
And with tensions racking up with Russia right now and hacking and all sorts of other stuff going on, do you think, and we can only speculate, because your area is an area that's been replete with military activity over the years, in the sky and everywhere, could there be a connection somehow militarily?
I suppose there could be.
I mean, that would be, it'd be a massive mistake.
And I think a lot of researchers want to pin everything and they use the words on ET.
And perhaps, I don't know, perhaps 99.9% of this unexplained phenomenon is nothing to do with what people term as ET.
It could be humans that have just got technology that's that advanced, it's just not out there to the general public.
I mean, that's what we could have been looking at through that camera, or what Amanda could have been filming through that camera on the 17th.
It could be what we're looking at over the sea.
I'd draw a line under that one simply because looking through the archives, these unexplained lights have been reported for at least the last 70 years.
And the phenomena does not appear to have changed in the way it presents.
So, you know, either we had that technology 70 years ago that can just appear and disappear at will and move 25 miles up the coast in the blink of an eye, or it is something else.
And I'd go with the other.
It is something else, something unexplained and not man-made that's presenting over the sea.
And just for those reasons doesn't mean I'm right.
Right, no, it doesn't.
It adds to the fascination, of course, of the investigation.
Have you ever tried, I might have asked you this before, I don't think I have, contacting, for example, I don't know who it is in that area, your local MP and asking for some clarity on the sorts of things that happen and talking about military work and that sort of thing.
There's a lot of stuff they cannot tell you, but I wondered if you tried.
It might be worth a go.
I'll not name any names here, but I did have a report in 2016 from a geophysicist who went up to Bempton and whilst he was there, he observed some lights and he did a great report and sort of worked out the distance these lights were to the horizon.
But I must add, like I said, I'm not going to say who he is, but the point I'm making is he was actually with an MP when he made that report and I couldn't use his name.
Yeah.
So probably, you know, that area is full of cliffs.
It's a beautiful area, but also fascinating if you're a geologist, geophysicist.
So he was there for another reason and got a surprise.
Yeah, yeah.
And I think I've wrote about, I've wrote his report, his actual report is in book two.
And he allowed me to use it.
And we just put it down as his observation.
I didn't mention anyone else.
I don't have to mention anyone else, really, Howard, you know?
So it doesn't mean that an MP wouldn't be willing to look into what activities taking place in the area.
But from what I could gather from that particular sighting, there was a reluctance to have any involvement in the sighting, let's put it that way.
Okay, now for a big chunk of this year, in spite of the fact that we've all been hobbled by coronavirus and not able to do quite the amount that we've done or work in the same way, you've been working on the Dark Forest Project, your documentary, which I had a tiny little voiceover part in at the beginning.
This is a labor of love and it's a lot of extensive work you've done.
Where are you up to with it?
We've probably filmed 45% of it.
Corona, as you said, has really put the brakes on.
Although we've managed to get out into some of these forests with the witnesses, because there's only been myself and Les Drake from Digital Creations, oh, and Chris Wright, he's been instrumental, Chris, in helping us, a guy from Scarborough.
And two of the witnesses on one occasion and one of the witnesses.
So there's never been more than six people there.
And we've got their accounts.
But I think we've probably got seven witnesses, all with various varying degrees of stories to tell, as in we'll call it excitement or levels of fear, because that's what, as presented from every witness that we've spoken to, is the extreme fear.
Barring the gamekeeper, he had a different approach.
He was intrigued, to be honest with you.
But nevertheless, they're brilliant witnesses, Howard.
Okay, and when you talk about the forest, where are we talking about?
Well, we're talking about North Yorkshire.
We're talking about up around Howard Dale and Dalby and all around that area.
And bearing in mind that North Yorkshire Moores National Park is over 500 square miles.
And if we wanted to, because there's been reports at Helmsley of a similar thing, and there's been reports up around Gothland.
So, you know, we could extend the net, but it all encompasses the North Yorkshire Moors National Park.
And things do seem to be following the River Derwent, which starts up there in the Forge Valley, because the Derwent runs towards Seymour and Flixton.
And as you know, I've got reports of something very similar at Flixton.
And just give me a taster as we close out this segment of the kinds of things that people are telling you.
Well, the Gamekeeper, this is an historic sighting, but obviously we've had face-to-face interviews with this guy.
He found himself sleeping in an abandoned farmhouse back in 2002.
And this thing, which I can tell you about after the break, Howard, came to the window and looked at him.
And it's quite an incredible account and interesting story, which I don't mind speaking about if you want to.
All right, Paul.
Let's hold that over until we've taken some commercials here.
My producer will be very happy if we do that.
But are all of the accounts and sightings from the gamekeeper and other people about cryptids?
They are, yeah.
We're talking, Paul, about this area of forest, which is basically what?
What do they call it, the North Yorkshire?
And as we said previous, we've got over 500 miles of uncharted forest, much of it.
I mean, when I've spoken to gamekeepers, they will tell you that the actual designated walking paths are the only things really that get trodden because it's so dense in certain parts, this forest or the forests.
They're all linked.
An animal or people can get from one to the other, but it covers a vast area and along the coastline.
And you've got all the little wooded areas and forested areas along the coastline, not far away.
You've got Beast Cliff, which is an unusual name.
Yeah, and there's a large wooded area.
And I've got reports there going back years and years from anglers who fish along Beast Clift and up around Sands End who claim to have seen a bipedal fur-covered creature.
I'm not asking everybody to just believe it on my word, because I never thought I'd be looking into this myself.
But when you, you know, I mean, I say this quite a lot, but when you've got all these people unconnected to one another telling you a very similar story, then you've got to start and take a little bit of it seriously.
I mean, these stories go back into the annals of time.
They go back way back into folklore.
And, you know, where you've got stories of the Bar Guest, you've got the Bar Guest of East Ayton, which was a large, fur-covered, huge dog-type creature.
So is this a kind of middle ground?
Is this a mix of reports of what they call in America dogman and Bigfoot?
It is.
I mean, it's hard.
The guys who got trapped, well, just jumping from the gamekeeper for a moment, the guys who got trapped in the forest, three fishermen, because it's near the Derwent, you know, they'd gone for a weekend just wild camping and doing what they do.
One of them's mum has a holiday home in Whitby, so that's how they ended up in this kind of area.
They believed, I mean, the exact words of one of the witnesses, Steve, he said, if you'd have asked me to draw a werewolf, I would not have drawn that.
These guys were absolutely terrified.
They got trapped in the forest overnight by this creature staring at them throughout the night.
And I'm not, obviously we will know soon where the forest is, but I'm not going to say where this forest, this particular one is, because there's research that's been packed around it that'll make it even more interesting.
But they'd gone in there mid to late evening.
They'd got in, just set a camp up, fire, got everything going.
And one of the witnesses perceived early into their stay there that they were being watched.
He felt they were being watched.
And he felt nervous.
And the other two said it's just so unusual for him to be saying things like that.
Now, bear in mind, I've been into this forest.
I've slept in it myself now with the witnesses.
There's two ways in, and one's an hour and a half to get to the spot, and the other's a two-hour walk.
So you can't get out on a night.
And they sat there after 12 o'clock, after midnight.
They don't know exact time.
Absolutely pitch black, bit of moonlight.
So you can see the silhouettes of the trees and a pair of amber eyes lit up about 30 inch off the ground.
And they don't know what they are.
And their words are, they're as big as your fists.
They're huge.
The guy who'd already thought he was being watched or they were being watched was getting really uncomfortable and frightened.
And they're trying to sort of console him and calm him best they can.
And they're nervous.
And, you know, these guys, they've got all correct camping gear.
They're not sort of just fresh out of a, I don't know, a bar and gone to think they're going to be wild campers.
They're seasoned at it.
So they watched it and watched it for about 30 minutes and it didn't go.
So in the end, the main witness got up.
He said, and I shooed it away.
I walked into the darkness, took a few steps and it disappeared.
He said, I turned round and I could see the look on the other two's faces.
Now, these lads are from Rotherham, so they speak Broad Yorkshire, similar to myself in a way.
And they said, that better turn around and have another look.
Oh, boy.
Yeah, he said, and when I turned round, I couldn't believe it.
And my eyes just lifted.
And I took a tape with me, a surveyor's tape.
We measured it.
They were 45 feet away, roughly.
And the actual height where these eyes were now, let me just get my facts right.
It was, I think it was 87 inches.
So over seven foot.
So, and that's what they're claiming.
And they could see this thing stood in the darkness.
They said its ears were ridiculous.
They said they were just look too long for its huge body.
It's got monstrous shoulders.
Now, I was thrown into the realms of something like the Bigfoot until they started describing the ears.
Because they're describing these monstrous shoulders and arms.
They couldn't see anything below the waist because of the foliage.
And these glowing eyes, self-illuminating eyes.
So this sounds like what the Americans call dogman.
It does.
Very, very much so.
I mean, I personally, I'd just say they were looking at something like a werewolf.
But who can say?
We're only dealing with a name after all.
But odd times while they're observing this and they're terrified, literally terrified.
They said it was in a stooped position, like an American footballer would be before he sets off charging forward.
But odd times it kept looking to its right, and that's when they could see its elongated snout, which they described as looking like Wily Coyote.
They were that long.
And that's why he said, if you'd have asked me to draw a werewolf, I wouldn't have drawn that.
And, you know, they were absolutely terrified.
I mean, Steve said when it rose, it were like a machine.
He said it were like two ping pong balls in glass tubes.
It just rose.
No hesitation.
When he went to shoe it away and it disappeared and he turned round, he said that's when they saw it rise up.
So did they have the impression, they clearly did, that this terrifying creature with the illuminated eyes was somehow stalking them?
Yeah, it was giving off absolute fear.
Maybe it wasn't giving off fear.
Maybe that's me saying that wrong.
Let's face it, anybody presented with something like what I've just described is like looking at something from a nightmare.
All they felt was extreme fear.
But what I can't get my head around, Howard, is if these things are actually living, breathing creatures, then it figures that there's got to be more than one.
And there's got to be more than two.
So where are they?
We know we've just said that over 500 square miles of national forest, but could they evade detection?
Well, they could if they were interdisciplinary.
I mean, this sounds crazy, but we've talked about this before.
It's becoming more and more plausible, I think.
They could if they were interdimensional.
That's where I'm coming from, and that's what I'm thinking it has to be, something like that.
Bearing in mind, I'm no scientist, Howard.
So, you know, it's a bit of a sweeping thing to say, but I think there's got to be some element of that to it.
But there's a physical element when it was actually here, because they could actually hear it breathing.
They said at first we thought it was growling, but we realized it was its breathing.
Like a horse, it was just so powerful that the sort of lung power of this thing that were watching them, and it watched them for hours and hours, just stood looking at them.
In the end, one of the witnesses said, I couldn't bear it.
I could see it in my peripheral, and I couldn't even bear looking at it.
I just wanted it to be over.
But was it giving them other than intimidating them?
And it would scare the proverbial out of me, I think.
But, you know, did it give the impression that it might attack them if provoked?
I think the impression I've got, or what I've got from speaking to the witnesses, and I've only spoken to two of them.
One of them won't, which is fine.
But I think the impression I've got is it wanted them to split up.
It wanted them to go running off.
It was interested in one of them for definite.
Right.
And how did they know that?
Because one of them said, it wants you to go.
Wow.
So it was somehow communicating.
Yes, it wants you to go.
And then it looked at his friend and said, Anu, it don't want you here.
And look, you can always tell when you look at people, can't you?
I can anyway.
And you're a perceptive man, you know, whether they're spinning you a story.
The thick end of 20 years on, it makes me think, why would they want to spin a story?
Well, right, I need to correct myself.
The Gamekeeper was 2002.
This was 2018.
Right, okay, gotcha.
But they were seven miles apart, the sightings.
But you can, I personally believe that they've seen something highly unusual.
And there's other elements to it, Howard.
The first time that these guys met us, they traveled all the way from Rotherham straight after work.
And we went into that forest, myself, Les Drake from Digital Creations and Chris.
And we met them at the location and went into the forest.
And we didn't come out well late at night.
And that was just a flying visit to show us where they'd met it.
And one of them in particular was terrified going back into the forest.
He said he'd been thinking about it for weeks and weeks because I just never had it off his mind.
He couldn't stop thinking.
It's changed.
After seeing it, it's changed what they believe is possible and what's out there.
And then the second time, they've come once again all the way from Rotherham and spent the night in the forest with us.
I'm not saying that you wouldn't do that if you were trying to create an elaborate hoax.
Not hoax, but just spin a yarn.
But personally, well, let's hope the proof's in the pudding when you see the documentary.
I believe these guys are.
And we have to say that there are how many other similar accounts going to be in the documentary?
We've got the Gamekeeper.
We've got a couple at Flamborough on, let's see, January this year.
We've got the Paratroopers account because he's retold it to me again for the documentary and we'll be reenacting some of that.
We've also got two more accounts now, one from a delivery guy on October the 12th this year.
And obviously, I'm not saying obviously, this isn't North Yorkshire, this is between Bempton and Flamborough that he's been delivering on a night, as I say, October the 12th.
And he's driving down the road.
It's not an highly populated road, but there is habitation there.
There's a farm and Munton's Grain.
It's on Dewsom's Lane.
And as he's driving there, in the night, he said his headlights picked up what he thought was an unusually large deer at the right-hand side of the road.
And he sort of slowed.
He said, and it came out onto the road almost crawling like a cat would, like when they're stalking something.
He said, and it came to just about a stop and this thing stood up on two legs in front of his car and looked at him with glowing gold eyes.
Now, the difference here, Howard, He's not talking about self-illuminating eyes.
The headlights were glowing these eyes up, and then it went.
It had gone.
Unusually, I got another report.
That one came in afterwards.
It came after the October the 12th one, but from November.
So, obviously, let me just get September, sorry, September.
So, it was the month before.
A guy driving, the same spot or virtually the same spot, claimed that something on two legs, he's not going to describe it as looking like a bipedal dog, but he said it was seven to eight foot tall, ran across the road in front of his car.
So, both these people, one of them's already gone on film, the delivery guy, and told me what he's seen.
And the other guy's going to go on film.
We've just stuck, we're actually stuck due to COVID, to be honest, aren't we?
So, that's not going to happen just yet.
But it's unusual.
And once again, like we keep repeating, we've got people unconnected to one another reporting something very similar.
So, do we say that they're all lying, they're all imagining it, or do we attach some truth to it?
We have to say, since they don't know each other, and since they're all kinds of different people over different spans of time, there must be something going on.
And that's not a stretch to say that, I don't think.
Now, we're nearly out of time.
How is the book Night People doing about your experiences with possible ETs?
It's doing really good.
And as we touched on earlier, Howard, I've got people contacting me, you know, who've read the book.
Obviously, they're probably reading it because they want to reach, they're looking for something that relates to their own experience.
And they're relating to things in the book, which gives me confidence and kind of lets me know that I've done my job.
I've done something right if I'm touching people who've had similar experiences.
But it's reaching out to a broader audience as well, which is good.
It's been received well.
I mean, it's not going to continue.
You're not going to get tons of praise for it forever.
Some people are just going to read it and think, well, what a load of rubbish.
And they're entitled to their opinion.
But overall, it's gone down very well.
And it's your story and you have to tell it, you know, and I was very pleased that you did.
And I'm pleased that we talked about it in the last podcast.
If you want to go back and hear about that.
Hey, Paul, listen, I want to wish you the happiest of 2021s.
I'd like to talk with you pretty early in 2021.
If you have the time, that would be great.
Paul's got the time, I would.
Yeah, that'd be wonderful.
And my best wishes to you and all the listeners.
Thank you very much for allowing me to speak.
Thanks, Paul.
And if people want to check you out, where would they go online?
We have a new website now, truthproof.uk, and the books and information.
The photograph that Howard was talking about is on that.
I will contact the photograph, the guy who took the photograph, see whether Howard can use it.
But it is on there anyway.
So, yeah, truthproof.uk.
Look at the website.
Send us your reports.
And if you're interested in the books, please get in touch.
The amazing Paul Sinclair.
He is so full of energy for a whole new year.
More great guests in the pipeline here at The Unexplained.
So until next, we meet here online.
My name is Howard Hughes.
This has been The Unexplained.
Please, whatever you do, stay safe, stay calm.
And above all, please stay in touch.
Happy New Year.
Thank you very much.
Take care.
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