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Dec. 22, 2020 - The Unexplained - Howard Hughes
01:03:24
Edition 504 - Stan Gordon

Author/researcher Stan Gordon investigates UFOs and many other anomalous phenomena from his home base in Pennsylvania...

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Across the UK, across continental North America, and around the world on the internet, by webcast and by podcast, my name is Howard Hughes, and this is The Unexplained.
Here we are.
We've landed, so we're now leisurely strolling our way up to a thousand editions.
I wonder when I'll get there.
I couldn't even begin to speculate, let's be honest about that.
How are you feeling about Christmas then approaching?
Are you making big preparations for it all?
I kind of think that this one in this awful year that's just disappeared in front of us, I think personally I'm just going to let it pass, you know?
Does that make me sound really miserable?
It's not supposed to.
But let me know how you plan to spend Christmas.
Maybe you'll listen to some podcasts.
You might listen to some of mine.
Seems like only yesterday that I was doing number one, and it's really nice to hear from people who say, did you know, Howard, that I've been listening to you since edition 20?
And that's 480 shows ago.
Which is a lovely feeling to hear from new people who tell me stuff like that.
You want to get in touch?
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Follow the link.
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And thank you to Adam, my webmaster, for his hard work on the show and to Haley for booking the guests.
This guest was basically booked by you, suggested by a listener.
Thank you for this.
Stan Gordon, who's got a very different take on cryptozoology and ufology.
And in some cases, those things come together.
They coalesce with him.
He's based in Pennsylvania.
He's written a raft of books, including the Pennsylvania UFO big case book, Astonishing Encounters, Pennsylvania's Unknown Creatures, Really Mysterious Pennsylvania, UFO's Bigfoot and Other Weird Encounters, various case books.
So he's been pretty busy, and I understand that he's been doing this work since 1959.
So Stan Gordon, the guest on this edition of The Unexplained.
Don't forget, as ever, if you want to get in touch with me, please tell me who you are, where you are, and how you use this show.
It's always good for me to know.
All right.
Stand by then.
Let's cross to Pennsylvania, United.
What's wrong with me today?
Stand by.
I think it's because I was up really late doing the radio show last night as I record this.
And I never get to sleep before about 3.30 a.m.
And so I do the Mondays on a minimum of sleep.
So forgive me for being a bit hyper.
It's too much black coffee.
That's what it is.
Let's cross to Pennsylvania now.
Stan Gordon, the guest on this edition of The Unexplained.
And Stan, thank you for coming on my show.
And thanks for having me on today.
And I've just got to explain to my listener, because we've done most of our recent shows in digital quality.
It has to be borne in mind that most of the American shows still use the telephone.
And this one is going to be done on the good old-fashioned phone, which is all we used to use a few years ago.
So, Stan, it's a pleasure to have you on.
Am I speaking to you from Pennsylvania?
Is that where you are at the minute, at the moment?
That's correct.
I'm about 30 miles east of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania.
Okay.
The only thing I know about Pittsburgh is I used to stay up into the middle of the night and try to listen to a radio station called KDKA from there.
That's correct.
It's still one of the major stations around.
It was probably the major station years ago when you listened to it.
Yeah, I think it was probably, and this is over here in the UK, we say that means I'm an Anorak.
An Anorak is somebody who's too interested in something.
It was one of the first radio stations in America, I think, KDKA.
That is correct.
Yes, it is.
And they've been around for years and years.
They've done a lot of talk radio, so I've listened to a lot of shows from there, and I've been on many of their shows over many years as well.
And how are you managing in this strange coronavirus period, Stan?
Are you indoors or are you getting out?
No, we're indoor quite a bit around here.
We only go out when we have to, and unfortunately, it's in my location over here.
It seems to be surging again, so we're being very careful.
Well, I'm sorry you have my good thoughts.
I think this thing has gripped the whole world, and all of us are hoping that the vaccine is going to give us a way out of these things.
Now, I'm looking at your biography here, and you have an incredible and amazing 61 years, is it, of UFO and cryptozoological research.
That's correct.
This is 61 years this year.
I started this back when I was 10 years old, many, many years ago.
And surprise to most people, in all the years I've been doing this, I have never personally seen a UFO or Bigfoot myself.
I've interviewed many thousands of people.
I've seen many types of interesting physical evidence out in the field investigating, but I've never had my own encounter.
Are you sad about that?
I would like to see something, but it keeps me skeptical because I know there's something out there.
There's just far too many credible people, and you've got the patterns and similarities, and it's just too much data coming in year after year from so many different people who don't know each other that you can't dismiss some of these reports.
You've got so many cases in your books.
One would be forgiven for thinking that Pennsylvania is paranormal central.
It seems an awful lot of stuff goes on there.
It's always been a very, very busy state historically.
I mean, if you go back to the Native Americans in Pennsylvania, there was talk about a creature similar to Bigfoot in some areas.
And of course, there's many newspaper accounts that they've located from the 1800s to talk about the wild man of the woods.
Of course, they didn't call it Bigfoot back in those days.
But there's a lot of accounts of both UFOs and Bigfoot in the old newspaper accounts.
So these phenomena have been around for a long, long time.
And my hotline's been open since 1969.
It still never stops ringing with reports.
So between email reports and phone reports, which come in here pretty much regularly, it's amazing what goes on.
And these are just reports I'm receiving.
And I'm in touch with many other researchers, and there's many other groups out there.
They're all getting reports, too.
So we can't even begin to imagine how much of this activity is actually going on that we don't hear about.
There seems to be a lot.
Just winding you back to the beginning of it all then, at 10 years of age, Stan.
What was it that started you?
It was just a matter of circumstance that my parents gave me a gift as an AM radio.
And I've always been, from the time I was young, I was into electronics and communication to science.
And I was tuning around the AM radio that night.
And there was a radio show, a talk show, talking about unusual happenings from haunted houses, flying saucers, strange creatures.
And I was a curious youngster.
And I wanted to know if these stores are made up or somebody was telling the truth.
So I began to go to my local Greensburg library and read all the books.
And I started with that.
And I continued to read about the subjects.
And then I was 16 years old, 1965, when the UFO incident happened near Kexburg, Pennsylvania, about 12 miles from where I live.
I started documenting it.
And I was breaking on KDK radio that night because I was listening to a talk show on that station.
And it was coincidental that this was coming across.
And almost the entire talk show that evening was focused on the breaking news of this object seen in the sky.
And I've been out in the field since 1965 doing it ever since.
The Kexburg case is one of the most famous in all ufology.
This is, as you say, December 9th, 65.
And I think that started, I mean, since you lived close to this thing and you heard that coverage, you're going to be uniquely placed to talk about this.
So I wasn't going to talk about this yet, but let's do it now, I think, Stan.
You know, what did you make of this?
This started with a fireball, but turned into something much more intense, didn't it?
Well, it's a very long story.
Now, after so many years later, I still on occasion get leaves on the case.
But we could talk for days and days about Kexford.
But it was the evening of December 9th, 1965, Thursday night.
And I'm listening to a talk show called Contact on KDK Radio.
And they had a special guest on.
You might recognize the name was Frank Edwards.
That's why I was tuned in to listen.
And Frank Edwards, for your listeners, he was a well-known journalist here in the United States who had written books on unusual occurrences.
So I wanted to see what he had to say.
So while we're listening to the program, they're breaking in and they're discussing and they're focusing on this news story coming in of this brilliant fiery object that was seen from Ontario, Canada, over Michigan, Ohio, and Pennsylvania.
And again, just very briefly, there were many reports coming in.
They were talking to eyewitnesses.
They were interviewing people about it.
They were reading the wire story services starting to break.
And whatever this object was, about 4.47 p.m. local time, the object came over the greater Pittsburgh area.
And later that evening, more reports came in that apparently the object fell roughly east of Pittsburgh in a little community called Kecksburg in Westmoreland County.
And reports came in that something had fallen from the sky.
And later that evening, it got much more fascinating when they said that the military was now arriving in the Kecksburg area to search for an unidentified flying object.
And so I stayed up late that night.
I was running back and forth from the old black and white console TV we had, back to the radio trying to get the latest reports that I'm writing all this information down.
And I wasn't driving yet.
I had no way to get out there.
And the next morning, I hurried to the local newsstand to pick up all the local newspapers, hoping that it would make the local news.
And there it was, headlines on all the local papers.
Our local paper, the Greensburg Tribune Review, had the early morning edition headed Army Ropes Off Area, Unidentified Flying Object Falls Near Kecksburg.
And it was a very interesting story based on that something apparently did fall into the woods, that no one was being allowed anywhere near the object.
There was talked there may have been radiation involved, that they were awaiting the arrival of civilian scientists and Army engineers to examine whatever it was.
And the later edition had several different stories about it, but the one that really caught my eye was searchers failed to find object.
And it went on to say that the authorities had conducted a search at the early morning hours.
They found absolutely nothing.
And already the official explanation was there was a bright meteor in the sky, but nothing had fallen to the ground.
It was just imagination.
And officially, that was the end of the story.
And in 1965, Stan, you can remember listening to the radio then and following the story.
When the whole thing was swept away like that by the authorities, were they incredulous about that?
Did they doubt the story?
Did people phone the radio station and say, but hey, I saw something.
There was something there?
Well, they were phoning the radio station right after it happened because that's what was going on.
So many people here in Westmorland County and throughout the greater Pittsburgh area, they were calling in to the police departments, the newspapers, the radio and TV, reporting the sighting in the sky.
Multitudes of people saw it.
The authorities were overwhelmed with reports.
And so that's why I was making so much news.
And what I found out after I tracked down over many weeks and months and years, and I tracked down hundreds of people who were involved in the case or had information on it, and found out there was a lot more to the story than anybody knew at the time.
Because once the official explanation came out the next day it was a meteor, pretty much the story over the next couple days pretty much was gone.
And that was it.
And you heard little about it.
But I found out from many witnesses that they knew what they saw, And they knew it wasn't a meteor.
And so they just kept their mouth shut for years and years because they didn't want to be ridiculed.
But what I found out was that there were some local residents that saw the object come in and some at very, very low altitude, right over the top of their heads before it fell into the wooded area.
What I found out was, and again, this is just a brief part of the story, this thing came in from the Pittsburgh area over the town of Greensburg.
The object moved over Greensburg, moved roughly out towards Route 30, a big highway east of Greensburg, made a turn to the south, was seen by many people in the small farming communities, and went up to the mountains of Laurelville.
It kind of hesitated, made another turn, tracked back to Kecksburg, made another turn, and went down into the wooded area.
And I found some of the local people who saw the object going down.
And they said when it came down, it did not come down at a high rate of speed.
It came down almost like it was controlled.
And moments after it fell, there was a column of kind of a grayish-blue smoke going up, dissipated very quickly.
And nobody reported any parachutes at the scene.
But also, I later found that some of the local residents saw it fall.
They immediately went down into the woods, and they came across a large, metallic, acorn-shaped object, about the 10 to 12 feet in length, about 8 to 10 feet in diameter, like one solid piece of metal.
No weld marks, no seams, no ribbon marks, kind of an off-gold bronze color, semi-buried in the ground.
A very strange object, isn't it, the way that it was described?
We have a, I don't know whether you have this chocolate over there in the U.S., Stan, but we have a thing here called the walnut whip.
It's like a whipped-up chocolate thing.
It looks like a vortex going upwards with a nut on the top.
This thing looks like a massive version of one of those.
Okay.
And yeah, and some people have described it similarly, but some people said to me years ago who saw it said it looked like a big chocolate drop.
Some said, yeah, kind of a bell, some like a, but more of an acorn.
And on the raised up part of the acorn, they said there were markings raised up off the surface that looked more like some type of symbols than writing.
And luckily, one of the volunteer firemen who got there sometime after it fell, right before the military arrived, he said, because of his family background, he was familiar with Russian.
He said that was not what it was.
He said it was much more unusual.
And after he saw that, over the years, he spent some time there reading books, looking up ancient writings.
And he said it looked somewhat similar to ancient Egyptian hieroglyphics.
But the story is amazing in itself, regardless of what it was.
And I mean, I've always kept an open mind to all possibilities over the years.
There have been multitudes of theories from many people over the years of what it was.
And there's a lot more of the story that meets the eye.
And of course, you know, the biggest question of all that comes out of it, Stan, is what happened to it?
Well, we do know what happened to it, at least at that time.
I found out, again, from independent witnesses and people who didn't know each other that there was actually two.
I later found there were actually two military flatbed tractor trailers at the scene that night.
The main object, the main flatbed with the object went out somewhere around 1 o'clock in the morning.
It was covered with a tarp.
It was a military convoy, a military escort.
And this truck with the object went to Lockbourne Air Force Base near Columbus, Ohio.
It got there during the early morning hours.
I was told that it went through an entrance not normally used, which more than one person confirmed to me independently.
They backed the truck and the object with the tarp into a hangar.
They set up a security perimeter around it, and I was told they were given a shoot-to-kill order to anybody who approached that hangar without the proper clearance.
I was also told it only stayed there for a short time for a stayover.
It continued on to Wright-Patterson Air Force Base near Dayton, and later other people confirmed to me what building they took it to.
It was not hangar 18 you hear about.
It was a different building.
Where it's at today, we do not know.
And we have to say, something like this happened today, or maybe say in the 70s, 80s, 90s, it wouldn't be reported like that, I don't think.
I don't think we'd be reading about the military has cordoned off an area because of the military operation, they wouldn't talk about.
It sounds, it has echoes of Roswell to me.
You know, even though people in 1965 didn't know anything about Roswell, really, the fact is that it was reported pretty frankly and honestly up to a point, and then the whole thing was closed down.
Yeah, I mean, it's a very amazing, regardless of what it was, just what happened and the people involved in the stories they've told me.
You know, again, among the people I've tracked down were, you know, a lot of people at that time I interviewed, they were children or they were teenagers.
And a lot of them later on over the years, they grew up to be professionals.
They were engineers and school teachers and police officers and very credible people.
And most of them didn't want any publicity.
Even today, over the years, unfortunately, many have passed away now.
Another key witness passed away about a week ago.
But some went public and many still, for various reasons, did not.
But it was so amazing because these people didn't know each other.
There was no internet.
There was no cell phones back in those days.
And they didn't know what other people were telling us over many, many years.
And it was those little details that they wouldn't have known unless they were there.
And other people were confirming other people's stories without even knowing it.
And I also talked to many reporters because this case was interesting because you had all the major news representatives there from the Pittsburgh area, radio, TV, and newspapers on the scene.
So they became a part of the story because many of them either saw military, some of them interacted with them, or they saw military equipment in this farming community.
So they became a part of the story as well.
So the reporters, look, I mean, I'm a journalist and I've worked on news desks all of my life.
It's difficult Because when official military secrecy comes into play, then you have to abide by the law.
And even if you want to talk more about it, you can't.
Did you get the feeling from any of those people that they were told not to say very much at all about this?
I can just tell you, and again, it took years and years and years to track down a lot of these people.
And I know there's people around still today living, probably in their 80s and 90s, who were involved that still refuse to talk about it.
I know some of their relatives have told me about their experience, but the people involved, for whatever reason, still don't want to talk.
And there were some people that there were indications that somebody did try to quiet some people down.
Some people may have been threatened.
But you've got to remember there were so many people involved that there's no way anybody knew about this, how many people were involved.
And I don't even know how many people were involved.
There were so many people involved in different aspects of the event.
Because so many people, after hearing the news that night, they began to find their way to a small community.
They came in from all over western Pennsylvania to try to get a look at the object down in the woods.
But once they got there, they were stopped by the authorities.
They were closing the roads down around the area that evening.
Makes you think, though, doesn't it, that if that thing was packed away and eventually taken to Wright Pat, then those people who were involved in the transportation of it, some of them may still be alive and may still have memories.
And I can just say that over the years, I've tracked down some military sources, and different ones were involved in different aspects of this incident and case, and certain people have confirmed others.
People would count.
So a lot of what we know, it's confirmed at different levels.
Right.
Have you ever tried?
Do you know anybody who has tried to get documents about this released under America's Sunshine Laws?
Oh, my.
I started filing FOIA reports back in the 80s, and there have been many.
And if you go online, I mean, there was a big search for documents back about 2002 when there was a group called the Coalition for Freedom of Information, and they were being supported by a big research project by the sci-fi channel, and they chose this case to do it.
It's still online.
You can go.
In fact, I know one of the reports is called Conclusion of, I think, the NASA Kexpert Lawsuit.
You should be able to find it on Google.
And this other report that was done from the IUR, it was done by Leslie Kane, who was the investigative journalist who actually headed that research project for the Coalition of Freedom Information.
And they did a tremendous amount of investigation on this case.
But there are still, I presume, crucial things to know about this.
Well, the whole thing is, after all these years, I don't think there's any doubt if anybody takes the time to properly investigate the report, which others have done, and you go away knowing something fell, the question still remains, what was it?
And there's a lot of things we still don't know.
We've learned a lot, but there's certain unanswered questions.
And of course, the biggest question is, for sure, what was this object?
And so, again, there's much more to this than we can even begin to talk about today.
And, of course, what was this object?
But also, if it was taken to Wright-Patterson Air Base then, where is it now?
That's the thing.
Yeah, and we've heard different thoughts on it.
We've heard speculation that it's been moved.
Others say it's still there.
We have no way of knowing for sure.
And in those 61 years of research, was that because this was an internationally famous story, one of the most, like I said, most famous stories in ufology, is that the weirdest UFO case, UAP case you've ever dealt with?
Oh, by far not.
Because many of the cases, I've worked on literally thousands of UFO reports.
And we could, again, we could talk for hours and hours.
I can give you some great examples of some of the other UFO cases I've worked on because I get these reports year after year, including this year.
And even with the virus situation, I've been receiving UFO, Bigfoot, and Crypto reports all year.
And it's amazing what goes on.
And there are many, much stranger UFO cases I've worked on than Kexberg.
Kexberg still is something that's still open because we don't know for sure what it was.
But some of these other cases I've dealt with are much more unusual.
Anything, I think you have, but anything involving creatures or beings?
Well, yep.
In the last few years, I've focused a lot more on a lot of interesting things I've been uncovering, investigating mainly the Bigfoot reports in Pennsylvania.
And I've been investigating them since, again, the 1960s.
And I've interviewed hundreds of people who have seen them.
Many of the sightings in Pennsylvania, they're in daylight.
Many of them have been at extremely close range.
By 1973, we experienced the biggest first UFO wave ever documented with hundreds and hundreds of UFO sightings in Pennsylvania all year long.
And many of those were not high-altitude lights in the sky.
Many of these were large objects seen at low level, at close range.
And that in itself was very busy.
And I should go back and give you a little bit of history how I got involved in this.
You know, in 1969, I decided to set up a hotline for the public to report UFO sightings.
And as word got out locally about my hotline, the phone in my home was ringing day and night with calls about not just UFOs, but anything unusual from alleged hauntings to strange creatures.
And it went on and on and on.
Well, I decided I couldn't do this all on my own.
It was just too much going on here.
So I decided I was going to try to set up a volunteer group of research people to investigate these type of reports.
So in 1970, I founded the first of three such volunteer groups.
For many, many years, we investigated cases across Pennsylvania.
And that first group was called the Westmorel County UFO Study Group.
And we started here in the greater Pittsburgh area.
By 1973, we had extended to cover the state of Pennsylvania.
And the group was kind of unique.
Majority of people involved were specialists.
We had scientists, engineers, technicians, police officers, former military people, all kinds of specialists that volunteered their time to go out to investigate these reports.
And I had it set up that we would respond to cases 24 hours a day around our regular jobs.
And we were just being inundated with reports.
And surprisingly to us, we were getting referrals from law enforcement, from the news media.
So we were very, very busy with reports.
So 1973 comes around.
And first we have this massive UFO outbreak all year long.
And then in the summer of 1973, we have the largest Bigfoot outbreak ever documented that continued into 1974 with multitudes of Bigfoot sightings, sometimes more than one creature seen together, many in daylight.
Our teams would get out there and we'd be on the scene sometimes within minutes to hours after they occurred.
So we're able to document it.
We're able to see the physical evidence and gather the evidence at the scene.
And I wrote the whole thing up in my book called Solid Invasion.
And that's when we began to see some very interesting and very strange things that I had never thought about with Bigfoot before.
Because there are very few researchers, Stan, who make a connection.
There are some, very few that I've spoken to over the years, who make any kind of connection between Bigfoot and you folks.
The two things for most researchers are completely separate.
One researcher of Bigfoot will not look into ufology.
They're separate disciplines, it seems.
But you don't think that way.
Well, I didn't want to think this way.
This is what the evidence showed us.
When I was out in the field, I had thought when I got involved investigating Bigfoot, we're dealing with an unknown animal, an unknown species of some type.
In 1972, we began to see a small number of reports in an area outside of Greensburg where people began to report screams and howls and cries and something bipedal heavy walking in the woods.
They began to report strange lights in the sky and a Bigfoot-like creature.
But there wasn't a lot of information on it, but it was interesting.
But then in 73, we began to have these massive amount of sightings.
And one of the first things that was unusual was my team would get out to some of these locations where there'll be trails of footprints with large strides between them under authentic ground conditions, including later in fresh, heavy snow.
We'd follow the trail of footprints, and in some cases, they would suddenly stop, vanish, and disappear.
And that, by the way, is still going on even in recent years.
So that would indicate that they might have...
Maybe?
Well, they seemed like the way the footprints were, they just suddenly stopped and vanished, which there was no way that could have been fabricated under the conditions we found.
And then we began to see a pattern.
We would have a UFO sighting in a particular area, and a short time later, which could be minutes, hours, days later, we'd have a Bigfoot sighting or vice versa.
And then we had significant documented cases, some of the strangest cases ever documented, with Bigfoot and UFOs seen together at the same time and place.
In 73, you talk about a case where there was a large red sphere that landed 100 foot wide, this thing was, and connected somehow with it were two tall creatures, looked like Bigfoot, but with green, glowing eyes.
Yep.
And that was the case that convinced me, myself, and some of the skeptical research people I had in my team that we're dealing with something here that's much stranger than any of us had ever imagined before.
And just a short part of the story was there have been numerous UFO reports during that 24-hour period on my offline, October 25th, 1973.
At 10.30 that night, I got a call from a state police officer from the Uniontown Barracks in Fayette County, which is a hotbed for weird phenomena year after year near the Chestnut Ridge and areas around it, continues to be.
And this state trooper said he had just came back from investigating this incident, and he thought that there was something possibly still up on the farm where this happened, and he wanted me to send my team up there as soon as possible.
So we did.
We got our equipment together.
We got our radiation gear and our radios and other equipment.
And early morning hours, we found our way up to Fayette County.
And what we learned was about 15 people in that rural area about 9 o'clock that evening had observed this barn size.
So you had this huge round red ball about 100 feet off the ground hovering and slowly moving downward.
And the best way to tell you this is a story focused on the son of the fellow who owned the farm.
He was coming down to visit his family.
He sees this object in the sky and people standing outside looking at it.
And he goes to a neighbor's house to get a better view.
And it looks like it's going to land on his dad's property.
So he and two neighbor boys, young boys, decide they want to go up and see what this thing is.
They stop over at his dad's farm and he grabs a high-powered weapon, a 30-odd 6, and a handful of ammunition.
And as they're driving down the farm road closer to the pasture, the dogs in the area are just barking like crazy.
They hear this high-pitched whining noise and these baby crying sounds.
And as they're getting closer and closer, the sounds are getting louder.
They walk up to the top of the hill to the pasture, and they're standing there because they can't believe what they're seeing.
About 250 feet away, this object is on the ground or right above it.
But now it's not a complete sphere.
It's like half a sphere.
It's a big white dome, about 100 feet or more in diameter.
It's making that large whining noise.
It's illuminating the whole area.
And they're just amazed at what they're seeing.
But soon after, their attention is drawn to a barbed wire fence about 75 feet away.
Along that barbed wire fence are these two tall, upright, humanoid, hair-covered creatures with very long arms.
The arms are so long, they're hanging down almost to the ground.
They're covered with long, dark, matted hair.
They have no neck.
The eyes are gluminous green, and they're making that baby crying, whining noise.
Well, the one in front is a tall one.
It's about eight feet tall.
The one behind is about seven feet tall.
They're slowly moving one behind the other along the barbed wire fence.
The young boy, the one boy, so frightened he ran out of the field.
The other one started yelling at the older fellow to shoot him, shoot him.
No.
He takes the shot.
The first shot, he didn't realize in that handful of ammunition, he had two tracer rounds.
Those tracers just give it like a luminous trail.
And so when you see that trajectory, you just get a luminous trail as it moves.
And he fired the first round, and that tracer went off.
He fired the second tracer, and when he did, the largest of the two creatures reaches out with his right hand as to grab that tracer, leaves out this loud, whining, crying noise, and at the same time, that large object in the field suddenly vanishes and disappears.
It didn't accelerate and leave the ground.
It just vanished.
So most of the luminosity is gone.
The creatures turn around, start walking back along the fence line, and the two fellas are getting ready to leave.
The older fellow starts firing live ammo from his 30.6, man at that larger creature.
And he said, fired at them, and he said he knows he hit them.
There was no effect on him whatsoever.
They ran back to the truck, went back to the house, took the family to the neighbors, and called the state police.
And when the troop arrived 45 minutes later, I interviewed the trooper and he said they went up in the field in the troop car looking for evidence.
And in the area where the object had been on the ground, he said it was self-luminescent and glowing, about 100 feet or more in diameter.
He said the farm animals would not go into that area.
He said the glow was extending up, I believe, about a foot up from the ground.
And he said it was bright enough, if he had a newspaper, he probably could have read the newspaper from the glow coming off the area.
And that's the short part of the story.
But that was the case that convinced me that we're dealing with something much more unusual.
And there were other similar cases.
But one thing I wanted to tell you, Howard, and I wanted to stress is I am not trying to suggest that Bigfoot is, for example, a passenger or a pilot of a spaceship from another planet, because we do not know for sure what these UFOs are.
There have been many theories for years.
I said years and years ago, the data that I'm seeing is that we may be dealing with more than one origin for the unknown category of the UFO phenomena.
So that doesn't necessarily mean that these things are extraterrestrial.
The more evidence I'm seeing, and we can get into some of this stuff, that for lack of a better term, they might be interdimensional, which is why there's no bodies.
Yeah, which exactly, because when people say there is no evidence, well, that could be the reason for there being no evidence.
If these creatures are somehow extra-dimensional or interdimensional or shift between one dimension and another, that's exactly what would happen.
And increasingly, that from around the world is what people are reporting.
Whatever they call the phenomenon, whether they call it Sasquatch, whether they call it Bigfoot, whether they call it Oak Tang in Africa, those are the things that people are reporting.
And increasingly, we're coming to hear reports like the ones that you've got at Stanford that suggest that there is some kind of strange interaction between Bigfoot, what is reported as Bigfoot, and UFOs, crafted land or whatever, strange flashing lights.
It seemed in that case in 73 that you talked about, it almost seemed as if the Bigfoot were summoning that thing.
And again, we can theorize, you know, was the creatures interested in the UFO?
Was a UFO attracted to them?
Or are they all part of the same stimulus of whatever this phenomenon is that's being reported?
It gets much deeper than that because I found a link with other cryptids as well in some of these cases.
And there's so much, you know, I've been out in the field for years and years investigating multitudes of reports.
And a lot of these are reports that over the years they came in.
So we were out there, either my teams or myself over the years was out there investigating these cases, a lot of them, soon after they occurred.
And these reports are continuing.
Even the last few years, there have been significant number of cases coming in very detailed, which suggests we're dealing with something that's much more unusual than an unknown animal.
And there are so many details that people don't know about with Bigfoot or many people don't want to talk about because it completely goes against their theory.
But they are so elusive, though.
And again, sorry to jump in.
They are so elusive.
You said that you gathered evidence.
I mean, do you have in your possession, have you ever had teeth or hair or anything that would help us along with identification?
Well, we have some very good cast of footprints.
And let me tell you about this story because this is where it all began.
And this is significant with the track that I found.
That event of 73 with the Bigfoot.
I had received a call from a relative of a person.
This would have been July 31st of 73.
I got the call on August 7th, but July 31st, it was a warm night.
This man was in his little home outside of Greensburg, a rural area, shaving early because he got up early for work, and it was a warm night.
He had the screen in the window, but the window was up.
And as he's shaving, he begins to smell this funny odor.
He said it was like something rotten, maybe rotten cucumber, turns around, happens to look in the window, and here's these two huge glowing red eyes staring at him, and the window's over eight feet off the ground.
So he runs into the house, starts yelling, and some of the other people came out.
They smelled the odor, but whatever it was, was gone.
They had several dogs outside the house.
They didn't make a sound, which they thought that was so unusual because they bark at anybody.
Well, later we found out that was very common.
Even the most vicious dogs, when they were near these creatures, they wouldn't make a sound.
It wouldn't bark or move.
Very common animal reaction in many of these reports.
But anyhow, that guy got pretty upset and ended up in the hospital.
And he got home a week later.
I went out to interview him that day.
He was still pretty shook up.
But I found out also that a number of weeks before, some of the local boys had taken a shortcut over to the local shopping area there through the woods.
And as they're walking near the home on the way over, they heard this noise in the woods.
They thought it was a deer.
They started throwing some stones and rocks in to scare the deer out.
To their surprise, this huge, hair-covered, seven-eight-foot-tall hairy creature came out of the woods and walked up behind the house.
So I was able to interview some of those boys, and I got permission to go up and look around on the property, and some of those fellows followed me up that day.
And as I'm looking around, I realized the ground conditions on top of that hill were not very good, and I stayed over for a while.
I'm ready to leave when I happened to see a partial footprint and one complete footprint of the strangest track I'd ever seen.
It was 13 inches long, 8 inches wide, and 3-toed.
And it was clearly a three-toed footprint.
So I got on the radio, one of my helpers came out, and we took photographs and measurements, and we made a cast.
And in Pennsylvania, as well as many parts of the country, we've all seen your typical five-toed bigfoot tracks, which also show up in Pennsylvania.
But also, and some people don't talk about this, but many people know it, three-toed tracks or sometimes four-toed tracks show up not only in Pennsylvania, but around the country as well.
So there may be different species.
Well, again, that's possible, but it's extremely unlikely with all the Bigfoot reports, and then I have multitudes of cryptid cases from the giant thunderbirds to other type of entities are being reported.
Another thing that a lot of people don't realize is that besides your so-called typical Bigfoot tracks and three-toe tracks, there's also numerous other very strange tracks that I've investigated, and I know others around the country have found some as well, similar, that do not appear to be hoaxes.
And the point is this.
You cannot have so many type of unknown creatures being out there.
It makes no sense.
At the same time, you have so many credible witnesses that are telling you the same details.
They're describing the same thing.
You're finding similar patterns.
You're finding similar evidence over widespread areas.
So what are we dealing with?
And I can just tell you this, years and years ago, I began to see a pattern.
I found that many low-level UFO cases where there was detailed UFO observations, not lights in the sky, seen at low-level, as well as people who interacted with Bigfoot and other cryptids at close range, these incidents commonly occurred in the vicinity of high energy sources.
So you had many, many cases around high-tension power lines and power plants, gas lines, radio communication towers, cell phone towers, windmill farms, reservoirs, went on and on and on.
There's definitely an energy connection to what we're dealing with, and it gets much deeper than what we're talking about right now.
So the assumption that you might make is that whatever it is is either feeding off the energy or attracted to it.
Or might be as part of whatever it's creating it.
It might be energy as a part of how these things physically form.
I mean, as strange as it sounds, I mean, there are cases over the years of balls of light that change in the creatures and creatures changing shape.
And there's been reports of people following footprints and footprints changing to other forms.
And I'm not the only one that's talking about this.
I mean, you know, for years and years, I started publishing some of this data back in the 70s.
And now, even the last couple of years, you're getting more researchers.
Nick Redford, for example, I'm sure you know of Rick.
Yes, I've known Nick for years, yeah.
Right.
Well, he's, you know, a lot of the cases he has, he and I know each other very well.
And we have so many similar accounts showing up from around England and the United States and things I've worked on and cases he's worked on and such similar type of reports, but they're so strange.
And there's many other investigators out there who are beginning to find the same thing.
In the last few years, not only in Pennsylvania, but around the country, in areas which have a long history of Bigfoot sightings, Bigfoot researchers are seeing strange spheres of light or other light phenomena in those areas that they cannot explain.
And we had cases, I'll give you one case back in 73, where a large Bigfoot with white hair, you don't hear about the white ones very often, but we've had reports, it's running across the road, but in one of its hand, it's carrying a glowing ball of light.
And soon after, this object comes across the sky, projects a beam of light down into the woods where the creature ran into.
I've never heard of one like that, and I've heard a lot, but nothing like that.
One of the things that you investigated, and we have to say that the cases that you've investigated are not all decades ago.
These cases go right up to the present day.
The Shikora gargoyle, which was in the last 10 years, this was a deeply weird creature with an aerodynamic head.
Yeah, that's north of Pittsburgh, and I just had an interesting UFO report up there in the last few days.
But that area, again, like so many areas, has a long history going back to the 60s of a lot of strange things.
But I interviewed that witness numerous times.
I got to know him very well in his family.
Very professional.
That occurred back in March of 2011.
And it was on a rural road between the little towns of Chakora and East Brady, where there's been a lot of other reports of different things, too.
But the fellow's riding down the road, and he has his course's headlights on.
He sees to the right of him in a field what he thought was a deer.
And he slows down, and suddenly this thing rises up from the ground, and it walks in front of a big sign, takes three big steps in front of his vehicle across the road into the woods.
And when I interviewed him, he said, I know people talk about seeing Bigfoot, but he said what I saw was not a Bigfoot.
He said, it's at least eight feet tall, but he said it was covered with smooth, leather-like skin that was either dark tan or a light brown color.
And I never looked at him.
He only saw it from the one side.
And he said the head was like almost like an aerodynamic helmet in its shape.
The face was flat.
The ear appeared to be, he only saw it from the left side and was like a long and flat and came back and pointed up in A corner, but he said the arms were muscular and a little longer than that of a human.
The hands had claws.
He said the one thing that stood out was it had extremely muscular legs.
They did not move like a human, and they look like they bent backwards.
And I've heard other reports like that in the last couple of years of other people reporting cryptids.
But he said it had what appeared to be wings tucked into its body extending up towards the side of its head.
And interestingly, within days in that same area of Butler County, the local group, the Butler Organization of Research on the Unexplained, they interviewed several witnesses in that area that reported seeing the same thing.
And I was told in the last year or so that supposedly this thing was seen again in that same area.
Well, that's astonishing.
I mean, the trades of Mothman about that.
I know they're different things, but it's got that kind of vibe to it, don't you think?
There's some similarities to it.
Interestingly, and this is just, I'm working on my fourth book right now.
It's going to have some very amazing cryptid cases, but I had talked about in my previous book that I had found witnesses to rumors I had heard back in 1966 in Pittsburgh while Mothman was being reported in neighboring West Virginia, but something was supposedly happening here in the Pittsburgh area.
And I later was able to get some very good details about a Mothman incident that was occurring up here in Pennsylvania about the same time it was occurring in West Virginia.
And now I've gotten some recent information of another incident in another part of Allegheny County outside of Pittsburgh, which reportedly occurred even prior to the studies in West Virginia.
So something very strange was going on in this part of the country.
And I've heard these other reports before.
And there's other cryptids I get reports on, too, which are very, very strange.
Probably the most fascinating is what's been going around here since 2017 and now is being reported throughout the country from different people, other investigators, and some of this is being published on the internet.
I see other reports and other investigators I talked to have getting similar reports.
But back in the fall of 2017, and this is very fascinating, I got a call from a police officer who on patrol here in Pennsylvania observed something that he could not explain whatsoever.
He said it was the strangest thing he had ever experienced.
He was patrolling in the area that evening that he commonly goes through.
He saw what appeared to be a ball of light on the ground.
And he stops his car because he's thinking, I've never seen any artificial lighting like that in the area.
He's watching.
Suddenly this ball of light rises up from the ground and he realizes that it's actually the head of a strange being about six feet high or taller that's skeletal, thin, human-like, and hairless.
And it was the upper part of the head was illuminating the upper part of the body.
And he said he watches this thing and he said it turns and it faced towards the road, then it turned.
And he said, I've never seen anything move so fast in my life.
He said, it was here and it was gone.
And that's something that other people have told me many times about various cryptids as well.
It's suddenly there and it's gone.
It appears and disappears.
And he said this thing was at least six feet tall.
The head was about eight to ten inches in diameter, shaped like a ball.
But it may have been a little more egg-shaped.
It was kind of a dull white.
He said the waist appeared to be small, but the arms were unusually long.
Long limbs looked skeletal with no muscle mass.
The skin tone appeared to be a dull grayish blue.
He couldn't see any facial features.
After it left, he pulled his car up, put the spotlight on.
There was no tracks there.
Within a couple weeks later, I get another report from another area some miles away from a person who was outside, and they see this object like a big disc with different colored lights on them hovering low.
A short time later, they hear this loud, strange, a very loud, angry noise, she said, like a loud, very loud owl sound, but much different than an owl.
And soon after, she sees this figure coming up out of a woods and comes up about 25 feet from her and describes it very similar to what the police officers described, being very, very thin, hairless, and the kind of the egg-shaped head and looking very sickly or in poor health, which is what people said.
And then other reports came in, and then I interviewed another fellow who lived in another area, another county.
And this fellow actually lives, his home's in the wooded area.
And he's up in the woods all the time.
He knows deer.
He knows animals up there.
And he was up there that evening when he began to hear this bipedal sound.
He knew it wasn't a deer.
And he began to, he was a little upset over it.
So he decided to go back down to his home.
And he's sitting down there in the kitchen eating something at the table, which is about 10 feet away from the back door.
And the back door is unobstructed.
There's no curtains or anything hanging on it.
And he looks up, and here's this same kind of creature.
He says, skeletal fin.
It's a humanoid shape, and it looked like it had all gray skin.
It's gray, bony legs.
They looked, he said, like the back legs of a greyhound dog.
The arms were very long, bony, and hairless.
The head was round but small, but it had two glowing yellow eyes.
It was crouched down at the door, looking directly at him with these yellow, glowing eyes.
And it crouched down on all fours, scampered around the house, and was gone.
And there have been other reports coming in as well, not only from Pennsylvania, but from around the country.
Some of these things almost sound like they're prehistoric.
I wonder if there's some kind of overlap between some kind of primeval era and today that we don't understand.
I mean, there's so much that we know that we don't understand.
Maybe that's part of it.
But it's such a big mystery, isn't it?
Oh, it is.
It's just the more I know about it, the stranger it is.
I said years and years ago, the phenomenon is so strange it protects itself.
Because who's going to believe it?
Unless you see it yourself, it's very hard to believe.
And I can tell you, over the years and years of the people I've interviewed, and I remember the last few years interviewing some hunters, some experienced outdoorsmen who never believed in Bigfoot or these other things.
And they encountered these things.
And I sat there face to face with some of these fellas.
some of these guys had tears coming out of their eyes because they couldn't deal with it.
They lived in the woods all their lives.
They loved the woods, and now they wouldn't go back to the woods anymore.
And something of that extent that caused their life to change so much, you knew something happened to them.
Yep, I know of a story.
I can't remember where it was from.
The bunch of guys, and I think they started going out in the outdoors in the 70s, a long time ago, and they connected with something that was returning their calls and that had a weird presence to it.
And they go back very regularly.
I don't know whether it's every year, but they regularly go back and exchange calls, almost messages with whatever this is in the wilderness.
So I think these things do exist.
Do you think, Stan, though, that authorities, officials in state capitals in the U.S. and in Washington know about this stuff, but they just don't talk about it?
Well, I have no doubt that they've been interested in UFO phenomena for years and years and years, and they've been monitoring it for a long, long time.
And there's indications that they've had an interest in Bigfoot for years as well.
At least certain agencies might have.
And it wouldn't surprise me a bit that anybody that has taken their time to look deeply into this phenomenon, they're finding out that there's more to this than just one phenomenon involved.
That maybe the more I'm finding is that some of these different types of anomalies being reported, they're somehow all interconnected.
And I'll just give you an example.
It's not unusual just to have a sporadic sighting of a UFO or Bigfoot of us anywhere, which people can report.
But what I've been finding is, and everybody's heard about the Skinwalker Ranch out in Utah.
But what's been going on is that it seems at certain times, there are certain geographical locations where the phenomena seems to focus on a concentrate.
And I know of at least two places I can think of in Pennsylvania.
I know of one right now.
I talked to people who owned a property last week again.
And this farm up in Fayette County, which again is one of the most active areas in the country year after year for all these kind of reports, it's unending.
Some of the strangest reports ever documented have occurred in Fayette County, which is right next to where I'm at in Westmoreland County.
And for years on their farm, they had all kind of paranormal events go on.
And then several years ago, they began to hear screams and cries, see strange lights, UFOs, Bigfoot appeared there, UFOs, all kinds of paranormal stuff.
Numerous people who have visited the farm have also experienced it.
People around their property have also independently reported things going on.
There was an area in another location here in Western PA that I was involved in back in 1979, 1981, 82, somewhere in that area.
And this actually made local news.
It was actually covered by the newspapers and TVs around here.
And this all started, as I recall, of a daylight UFO incident where something fell from the sky into a field.
They saw it falling, and they never recovered or whatever it was.
And soon after, people in that area began to hear howls and cries and weird screams and footprints, and they had Bigfoot sightings.
But at the same time, they were having an outbreak of Black Panther sightings.
And that's another phenomenon I deal with, an out-of-place animal.
And I've had incidents, of course, we talk about Black Panthers, and I know you have these kind of cases over in the United Kingdom as well.
We've had a record year for them, yeah.
Right.
We've had, I can tell you here in Pennsylvania, I've investigated three daylight, very close-range Black Panther settings in the earlier months of this year.
And some of these cases are very strange because there are certain elements in those reports which suggest that they're similar to some of the weird things about Bigfoot, that they may be something that is not a normal animal.
And yes, Black Panthers, as we know it, you commonly think of those as jaguars or leopards, but not from this part of the world.
We know they exist.
They're not supposed to be here in Pennsylvania or other parts of the country where people are seeing them.
But let me tell you a very interesting Black Panther story that I investigated, which I talk about, I believe, in my last book.
And this occurred where else Fayette County.
And this was back, oh, a number of years ago, back in the 80s, I recall.
And what happened was this doll was coming home late at around 1 o'clock in the morning.
I think he was coming home from work, as I recall.
And his car was overheating.
And anyhow, he pulls into the driveway and goes in and gets an antifreeze to put into the vehicle.
And he's pouring the antifreeze in.
He hears this loud growl.
He turns around and looks.
I think it was about 20 feet away.
Here's this very large black house cat just growling at him.
He didn't think too much about it.
He goes back to put more antifreeze in the car.
And a minute or two later, he hears a much louder growl.
He turns around to look, and that house cat has physically grunted another foot in front of him.
It just happened.
We're in that short time.
And he runs into the garage because this thing frightened him.
It was hissing at him.
And he ran in to grab this pistol.
And this thing had walked up the road a distance.
And at that point, he said it looked like a full-size, like a black panther.
He said, like you see in a zoo.
He had glowing, I believe it was glowing yellow eyes.
I could be wrong, it could be green.
ISMA reports.
And he fired a shot at it.
He didn't know if he hit it.
It looked at him, hissed, walked a little further, and physically vanished and disappeared right in front of him.
So there is a link just as we come to the end of this conversation, Stan, and I hope this will be the first of many conversations.
I've so enjoyed this.
But there is clearly some kind of link between these things and perhaps UFOs.
But crucially between us, I think.
These things seem to invade our consciousness, which we don't fully understand.
And this year of 2020, you were telling me, and I'm being told this by many people: that people's senses are heightened.
You know, people are on alert now because they're in lockdown and they're focused on danger and they're aware of things.
And it seems to me that sightings of UFOs in this country, your country too, and strange phenomena like the big cats are really putting in an appearance.
And I wonder if it's something on some level to do with us.
Well, I must tell you, however, that 2018 and 2019 in particular, those years were extremely active, very detailed, strange creature, cryptic UFO encounters.
And they continued right through 2020, right through the last week.
We're getting reports.
So, I mean, this is just an ongoing phenomena, and people are still reporting these things.
What's the most recent one then last week?
What was reported then?
I've had a report in the last, I don't have it right in front of me, it was within the last several days.
And I understand now that reports came in from probably at least 40, 50 miles apart of something was seen that evening in the sky.
One person said it looked like one, maybe two rectangular objects, but there was something else they were putting, like an unusual streak of light in the sky that people reported at the same time.
They said it wasn't like a meteor.
One person said it was white, but here's reports more locally here were trying to pull up that it was yellow in color they saw.
But that was interesting.
And then it was a few days before that I got a report.
I don't have it right in front of me, but I believe it was a large cigar-shaped object with a dome on top that was seen outside of Pittsburgh.
And we've gotten multiple reports of these large cigar, elliptical cylinder objects for years and years, especially last year's in daylight of these huge objects that are very low and very well-defined.
They can't all be balloons.
If I may say so, Stan, it's been humbling talking with you.
I'm looking at a biography of you online that tells me that you're 78 years of age, and you talk with the enthusiasm and the focus of an 18-year-old.
I don't know how the hell you do it, Stan, but I want some of what you've got.
Well, I appreciate it.
I'm actually 71, but I'll take that.
Okay, well, that's, well, there you go.
71.
Well, say, 71, even so.
So much for biographies that you see online, Stan.
I'd get that one corrected if I were you.
But, you know, your enthusiasm for this is astonishing.
It shines through.
Is there anything that you would like to do that you haven't done?
Anything that you'd like to investigate that you want to and you'd like to?
Well, it seems like every time, you know, the phone rings, there's something interesting coming in, and you never know what the next report's going to be.
So there's always something new.
We didn't even begin to touch on a lot of the things that we've looked into.
It's an amazing, strange world out there.
And if you're listeners, they can check my website out at stangordon.info.
And also, my books are available on Amazon.com.
Yep, no, I'm looking at them right now, Stan.
And I would like to have another conversation with you.
Maybe we can work out together topics for that.
And I can bring you to, you know, the audience that I've got, which is across the United States, in Canada, United Kingdom, Europe, Australia, New Zealand, those sorts of places.
But, boy, it is, like I say, humbling to speak with you because you are so focused.
And even though you've never seen any of these things yourself, the thing that shines through about you is your massive enthusiasm.
Well, it's been a very interesting journey.
When I started this, I never would have imagined that I would end up, because my theories have changed quite a bit from the time I got involved.
Of course, when I started out in the field, when we were talking about UFOs, the main idea at the time was everything was extraterrestrial.
And I have always kept an open mind.
But the more I know about the phenomenon, it may well be that maybe certain ones might be extraterrestrial.
But more and more, I think we're dealing with something that has a physical and a non-physical component to it.
And I don't have the answers, but there's a lot more to this than any of us understand.
71-year-old Stan Gordon.
Thank you very, very much for your time.
Well, thanks very much for having me on your program.
Thank you.
Well, I know I've used this word before, but the remarkable Stan Gordon.
And I have a feeling somewhere deep down that he and I are going to be speaking again soon, either here on the podcast or maybe on the radio show.
So I think we've got a whole fund of stories to dig into.
What do you think?
Your thoughts on all of my shows, welcome, including this one.
You want to go to my website, theunexplained.tv.
You can send me an email from there.
Follow the link.
If you've got guest suggestions, whatever.
More great guests in the pipeline here at The Unexplained Online.
So until we meet next here, please stay safe, stay calm, and above all, please stay in touch.
Thank you very much.
Take care.
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