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Nov. 17, 2020 - The Unexplained - Howard Hughes
01:00:22
Edition 496 - Jason Hewlett
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Across the UK, across continental North America and around the world on the internet, by webcast and by podcast, my name is Howard Hughes and this is The Unexplained.
Fairly spring-like at times, although the skies, I can't bear those dull grey skies that we have in wintertime.
We've got a lot of those.
But a lot warmer than I remember November being when I was a kid.
Look, when I was a kid, and I know that's 1853, you know, my memory of Liverpool Novembers was frosty, foggy, crispy, and cold.
Bonfire night where we do the fireworks here in the UK.
Always being a freezing cold, icy night.
You'd have to be careful about slipping over on the ice.
Well, there's none of that now.
It does feel very much like spring.
And at the moment, I'm recording these words in an evening time, and I'm wearing a t-shirt, admittedly with a scarf for comfort and reassurance around my neck.
But that's it.
Unheard of some years ago, so weird weather.
But no more talk about the weather, okay?
The news is all about, apart from the result with the ongoing debate about the U.S. presidential election, which I'm sure will be ongoing as you listen to this.
The news is all about vaccines, with the news on Monday that a vaccine had been found to be 90% effective in trials.
This is the Pfizer vaccine.
It's got to be peer-reviewed.
There's a lot more work to do on it.
But it holds out the hope that maybe vaccines, and like I've been saying for months now, human ingenuity will dig us out of this.
I know there are a million conspiracy theories around all of this.
And at this stage, until there is more scientific foundation offered about those, I'm not going to say anything about them at the moment.
We just have to watch and wait and see.
And if there's anything that has to be called out in the fullness of time, then it will be called out.
But for the moment, I don't know how you feel about all of this, but I have had most of the last seven or eight months in a form of peculiar virtual incarceration.
And I thought it was easy at the beginning.
I thought it wouldn't be a problem.
I could get through this.
I became more self-sufficient.
I learned to do more things professionally, and I didn't need anybody or anything.
Eight months in, I'm not feeling like that anymore, and I want to get out there again.
And, you know, any salvation or hope of it, I think, I don't know how you feel about this, but it's just like a light at the end of the tunnel.
But we can't be premature about any of this, because who knows ultimately what it may all mean, but we're going to be watching.
Now, before we get to the guest on this edition, Paranormal Investigator, Broadcaster, Jason Hewlett, Canadian, just a story that's coming from Pete in Ireland.
Pete says, I don't know if you discuss listener experiences.
I certainly do, Pete.
And you wrote, beautifully yours, so I'm going to read it.
My UFO sighting, says Pete, was in Ireland.
I've also included some images to illustrate what I saw.
It was the first time I had an experience like this, and it turned out to be the first of five that I would have over roughly the following two and a half years.
On May the 4th, 2010, there was a volcanic eruption in Iceland.
An unpronounceable, you've written it down, I'm not going to say it or try to, volcano, had been erupting since April.
It had recently caused all flying in European airspace to be halted for a number of days, I remember this, because of the danger of ash in the air.
On the day of May the 4th, there was another heavy eruption, and all flying in Irish airspace was banned because of the potential danger.
I was going out at about 10 p.m. that night, and I was heading down the pathway from the apartment where I lived at the time.
I looked to my right in the direction of the coast, about 15 minutes' walk from where I lived.
I noticed in the sky there was a set of bright white lights in the shape of the constellation of the plough.
It normally has seven stars, but there was an eighth at an angle below the box that's at the bottom of the constellation.
I'm quite used to seeing the night sky where I live, and I was struck by this extra star that I could see.
As I watched, the eight lights moved across the sky while keeping this shape, and after a few moments they stopped.
After staying this way for about 20 seconds or so, the three end lights moved away from the main group and formed into an inverted isosceles triangle, a distance away from the others.
After about two minutes, where they stayed in this position, I noticed another bright white light out from behind the nearby Sugarloaf Mountain in Wicklow.
It travelled towards the lights that were already there and took up a position at the end of them.
They stayed in place for about another minute or so, then keeping in this formation, they moved off in a direction that would have taken them over the Irish Sea.
I watched as they moved away, and after about 30 seconds, I could no longer see them.
I've often wondered what it was I saw that night, but I can't come up with a reasonable explanation.
As I said earlier, all flying was banned in Irish airspace.
At that time, the location, it happened, is in part of the flight path to Dublin Airport, and so I was quite used to seeing and hearing aircraft on a daily basis.
This was nothing like that, and they were completely silent throughout the whole time that I saw them.
I dismissed the idea of military aircraft, as at the time the Irish Air Corps consisted mainly of helicopters and propeller aircraft that were used mainly for fisheries protection and other tasks like that.
There were and still are no jet fighters or other aircraft of the type that would have flares, etc., of part of their equipment.
If you or any of your listeners, this is the important part, have any ideas on what I saw that night, I would be interested in hearing plausible explanations.
Pete, thank you for that.
And also, thank you for writing it so brilliantly.
So if you have any ideas about what that might be, then I would be very keen to hear from you.
Like normal, if you want to send me an email about anything, but if you want to send me an email about that, go to the website theunexained.tv, follow the link, and you can email me from there.
And thank you very much for all of the emails that you've been sending lately.
And of course, if you've made a donation recently through the website, very, many thanks to you.
These are difficult times.
And as one supermarket over here says, every little helps.
So thank you very, very much Indeed, gratefully received and much appreciated and needed.
Thank you to Adam, my webmaster, for his ongoing hard work on the website and getting the shows out to you.
And thank you to Haley once again for booking the guests.
Thank you, Haley.
Let's get to the guest on this edition now, Canadian Jason Hewlett, director of the paranormal documentary series We Want to Believe.
We'll discuss the series and also his research in what you are about to hear.
Somebody new here on The Unexplained, and that's always a good thing.
So let's get to him now.
Jason Hewlett, thank you very much for coming on my show.
Well, and thank you so much for having me, Howard.
This is it's exciting and it's an honor.
So I'm pleased to be here.
And, you know, it is amazing to connect as we are studio to studio.
I'm talking to you from London.
And I think, are you in Vancouver?
Just a place called Kamloops, which is about three hours northeast outside of Vancouver in the interior of British Columbia.
But it sounds like we're right in the same room, which is amazing.
It's pretty damn, I mean, this is a step forward for the unexplained, I would say.
New technology.
What an amazing thing.
What's it like there?
I used to work with the guy on the radio in London called David Jensen, known for years as Kid Jensen here.
And, you know, he's originally from Vancouver, used to tell me stories about BC and his life there when he was younger.
What's it like?
I've never been there.
I'd love to go.
What's it like being there?
Well, it's great.
I mean, we call it Supernatural British Columbia because it's a beautiful place.
Not so much to do with all the ghost stories and stuff, but it's a beautiful place.
It's like very much, you know, rain.
We got everything from rainforest, and I'm in kind of a semi-arid climate, which is not unlike Mexico.
Not Mexico, sorry, Las Vegas, Nevada, in a way.
We're kind of the tip of that desert.
So you go an hour out of town and you're in rainforest.
But where we are, it's almost deserty scrub, some pine.
It's really beautiful.
Like, you know, we got hot, hot summers and cold winters.
Right now, we're all kind of hunkering down because, you know, the COVID, of course, has been going on here and its cases are rising again in the winter as we're heading into winter.
So we're just kind of hunkering down and trying to stay safe and healthy and enjoy the view and get outside when we can.
Okay, well, the news out of London today is that there is a vaccine.
It is the one devised by Pfizer.
They're saying that it's 90% in trials, effective.
They've got to do a lot more work on it.
And I think that might hold a little bit of light, unless I'm being very naive and not seeing something that everybody else is seeing.
But I think it's holding a little bit of light at the end of the tunnel for all of us, Jason.
This is good news.
I agree.
I was reading the news this morning myself and that we're hearing here that like our regional health officer is sort of saying that we should start seeing a rollout if all goes well around January.
You know what I mean?
January, February, early 2021, to like starting with essential workers and then kind of scaling down to the rest of us, which that's great, you know, if it can kind of...
Okay, let's get to you and your interest in the paranormal, because an awful lot of people who are interested in the paranormal start when they were young.
And from what I understand about you, you started when you were very young.
Yeah, I did.
And it's one of those things that I had kind of two incidents happen to me when I was a kid.
One when I was about, you know, I think between five and seven, somewhere in there, was the first one.
The other one kind of in my early teens.
And the one when I was really young, it's a bit of an odd story because I was in the back of my mom's car and we'd gone to pick up a friend of mine who was going to sleep over.
And I was waiting while she went to get him from the house.
I don't know why I ended up staying in the back of the car, but I did.
And it was literally, I was just kind of looking around and it was a hatchback.
And one moment there was nothing.
And then the next, there was this face in the back window looking at me.
And then it was gone.
And the face was kind of this weird, monstrous looking face that scared me enough that I kind of like dropped down to the seat, bottom of the seat.
And when I looked and then looked back up and there's nothing.
There's nobody on the street, et cetera.
And then my friend came up and I was like, were you kind of outside or anything?
He's like, no, no, I just got here.
And then my mom came and I asked her if she saw anyone or anything.
And she's like, no, she didn't see anyone or anything either.
But it was one of those moments where I saw it.
It scared me enough that I could drop, you know, that I didn't want to look at it anymore.
And I can kind of remember it.
You know, I'm 48.
So some good 42 years later, it still sticks in my mind, just that face.
I can still see it.
So do you think that you had some kind of encounter with a goblin?
I don't know what it was or if it was just like, you know, it wasn't, it wasn't someone that kind of ran up to the car because you would hear footsteps, you know, but it was like just there, like almost maybe a goblin or just some deformed spirit or something deformed.
I'm not really sure what it was, but it certainly stuck with me and kind of kicked off a bit of an interest in ghosts, et cetera.
And then when I was in my early teens, where we are, there's a lake about an hour away from us that we would go to frequently.
Their family had a cabin there.
And I'd always bring a friend of mine because they could come and we'd be gone for a weekend.
And we'd always go exploring in the woods.
I grew up in the era where there was no helicopter parenting.
You kind of free-range children.
As long as we were back by supper and a buddy of mine and I were out in the woods and we'd always take this same path into the woods and the same path out of the woods.
And as we were coming back out, because it was dusk, we went by this tree and looked down and we could see it was like this little fire pit, you know, circles of stone, a lean to that had been built into the ground.
And inside that lean-to was this bone, like a, I don't know, like a leg bone, a chicken leg bone.
I don't know.
But it was that it was, we wasn't there on the walk up, but we could see it there on the walk down.
And it kind of freaked us out a bit and we decided to get out of there.
But it was the conversation of the evening.
So first light next day, we woke up.
We went back to the spot and there was nothing.
There was no sign of any of it.
And there's even pine needles covering the ground.
There's no way that, you know, it had been there, but we know we saw it.
There was two of us that saw it.
And those were kind of the two things that really kicked off what's become kind of a lifelong interest and fascination in the paranormal.
Were you scared?
I was scared with the first one in the car, like absolutely terrified of that.
The one with the weird fire pit stuff under the tree, it wasn't so much scary as unnerving because it wasn't there on the walk up and then it was there.
And then to see, and you just got this sense.
I mean, it was dusky.
You're in the woods.
You don't want to be out too late anyways.
But it's just like something made that.
And we just, my buddy and I have talked about it for years since.
He and I are still friends.
And it's just something that you just didn't want to be there at that moment.
And so going, but going back And finding out that none of it was there was kind of like the little icing on the cake, I guess you could say.
That, like, what was that?
What happened?
Like, what was going on there?
See, it's kind of making me think Bigfoot Sasquatch.
Well, that's kind of what we were thinking, too.
And there's sort of, you know, our Indigenous peoples have stories about Sasquatch, not just Sasquatch, but all sorts of creatures in the woods.
And they call them like the little people.
And they kind of go out in the daytime and do their thing.
And then at night, they go home.
And I was actually talking to a friend of mine who's Indigenous.
He said, dude, that's like the little people.
And the one guy maybe just couldn't get back.
So he decided to hunker down for the night and camp out.
I'm not going to argue with him about that.
I don't know if I believe it 100%, but I know what I saw.
And it definitely seemed to tie into like Sasquatch for a spirity elemental spirits kind of thing.
And look, talking to you now, you sound very balanced and rational.
You don't sound to me to be the kind of kid as you were then who would suffer from figments of the imagination.
So this is surprising.
I mean, here you are living a perfectly normal life by the sounds of it, but things that are way abnormal are being brought to you.
That's kind of how it's felt.
And I know other people I talk to that have gotten kind of into the same field, you know, investigating the paranormal, they've all kind of had things like that happen to them.
And so the question that we always come up with, are more people maybe dialed in to what's going on around us?
Because I'm convinced, and so are other people that I investigate with through Vancouver Paranormal, et cetera, and even that we do on our show, that everyone has the ability to see this.
It's going on around us all the time, and it's a very natural thing.
Some people are just sort of more in tune to it or more open to it.
And that's when it presents itself to them because it's trying to communicate with us much as when we're investigating, we're trying to communicate with it.
So I think once you kind of have that first experience, it opens that door a bit.
And if you keep looking for it, it's going to keep presenting itself to you, if that makes sense to you.
Makes perfect sense to me.
And that's kind of been my story, I think, in many ways.
You know, a lot of weird coincidences that have continued throughout my life.
Okay, so there you are, young person having experiences like this.
Now, for a lot of people, a lot of people that I grew up with were interested in the UFOs and all that stuff with me.
And, you know, we watched Scooby-Doo and we were interested in ghost hunting too.
I think inspired by that.
For most of us, those interests were overtaken by other interests when we became teenagers.
Doesn't sound like you were thrown off the scent, off the course.
Not too much.
I mean, there's always, you know, other things come up as teenagers.
I did too.
You know what I mean?
Girls, martial arts, all this other, whatever you're into, right?
But it was always something that I kind of came back to.
And it helped that I had like a couple friends that were really, really interested as well.
So it's something we'd talk about.
I mean, never pursue seriously, but we'd always get books on it and read them and talk about the books and et cetera, while being sort of sidetracked.
And I mean, and the only time I kind of really deviated from the interest is like I was a professional newspaper reporter for 10 years.
And that kind of just took over.
And there's always, it wasn't something that I wanted to, I don't know if you've experienced this too, Howard, but talk about too much because everything comes down to kind of credibility.
And you know what I mean, as a journalist.
And like you say, a lot of people think if you're talking about it, there's something a bit nutty about it.
Look, I worked on news desks, in particular at the BBC in those years that I worked on mostly commercial radio.
But in those years when I worked with the BBC, even recently, if I mention any of this, they say, oh, you're dealing with those nuts, those nutty people doing all that stuff.
Ergo, you must be nuts yourself.
Yeah, and that's kind of what I, if it did come up, that's kind of you'd get looked at funny, right?
So it's kind of to kind of turn it around.
And then these, the sort of, you know, the paper here in the town I worked in shut in 2014.
And then kind of, I don't know, after that, after the dust settled, I kind of started looking into it a bit more and then teamed up, you know, started becoming an actual paranormal investigator, Vancouver Paranormal in 2017.
And there's something freeing about that at that point where you kind of just, it doesn't matter anymore.
Like you just kind of, it's just a part of your life.
It's an interest of yours.
It's a legitimate interest.
And if you look at the world around us, it seems like interest is growing in it as just a whole pop culture societal movement, I think.
And years like this certainly have people are at home.
They're kind of talking about things more.
And I think a more spiritual side of things comes up, which I think is refreshing.
And it makes, it feels like my interest just sort of seems more validated, especially talking to people like yourself who've been esteemed journalists, you know, and yeah, if that makes sense, I feel like I'm sort of rambling.
I don't know about esteemed, but I need a bit of a boost of the moment, so I'll take it.
But thank you very much.
I'm going to write that down.
What time is this?
I'm going to write down the time you said that.
Okay, you're welcome.
Now, Vancouver always strikes me to be a nice, balanced kind of place.
Is it replete with paranormal happenings and weird experiences?
Well, it has its stories and it has its locations that are definitely haunted.
And, you know, in terms of like Halloween, like when it's a non-COVID year, you can do like ghost tours, et cetera.
But I know with Vancouver Paranormal, like since I've been with the group, which is going on just over three years now, the group is being called out almost every weekend to investigate a residential or commercial haunting.
And it's been like that since I've started.
And I know talking with Peter Wren, who's the president, and he's sort of one of my main colleagues who I work with, he says it's been like this for years, like as long as he's been a part of it, which is about 10 years.
And even here in the interior, we have places that we go and investigate regularly.
And we have not as busy in the interior, but there's definitely calls that come in that we go out to, you know, on residential investigation, more residential investigations, I found, a few kind of historical sites, et cetera, that you'd expect.
But it's busy.
It is surprisingly busy.
And COVID hasn't stopped it.
The only way it stopped it is we couldn't get out and investigate for a good two months while we were all on quarantine.
But it's surprising because we're not like Eastern Canada, which is a much longer history.
We don't have as many older buildings, but we certainly have our ghosts and our spirits and our locations that are definitely consistently haunted and have activity.
Listen, we're both journalists.
We know the name of the game here.
People want to hear stories.
So you said you've been on a lot of investigations.
Should we pick our way through some of these?
Maybe we'll, let's talk about your first investigation, then we'll wind our way through some of the others that you've done.
Sure.
Well, my very first one was actually when I was in journalism school, believe it or not.
And it was self-directed.
I was doing a magazine writing course back when magazines were a much more viable option.
Obviously, this is going back almost 20 years.
And we had a semester-long assignment where we had to write a magazine article that we would want to submit.
And I picked the 40 and Times, which is a, I'm sure, I think it's still published over in the UK, isn't it, Howard?
Yeah, absolutely.
You go into in the days when we could go into places that sell magazines, the 40 and Times is there.
It's there in the supermarkets here.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's everywhere.
And I love reading it.
And whenever I can get a copy, it's not as easy to find over here now, at least in terms of hard physical copy.
So I'm like, I wanted to write an article for that.
And so I was looking at a location that we have here in Kamloops called Tronchiel Sanitarium.
And it was tuberculosis clinic is how it started.
It was a community just west of town, maybe about a 15-minute drive.
It had everything.
It had like, you know, doctor's offices.
It had homes.
It had a school.
It had a city hall, et cetera, because it was self-contained.
And after sort of the war and tuberculosis wasn't so prevalent, it became an insane asylum.
And back in the 80s, the government decided to deinstitutionalize.
And so all those facilities were closed and all the inmates were, well, inmates, sorry, patients were let out.
And so stories immediately began in my town about this spot being haunted because of all the things that were alleged to happen there.
So I figured by the time, by this time, it was 20 years later and I'm like, I wanted to go in there.
So I found someone who had experiences there.
I teamed up with someone who's said to be a psychic.
One of my classmates who was a skeptic joined me.
And then another friend of mine who was doing TV broadcast came as well because he had all the camera equipment and audio equipment.
And so we went and we spent the night at Tronkiel Sanitarium.
Geez, you went prepared.
All you needed was a VW camper van and a dog and you got the whole Scooby-Doo.
Well, the buddy of mine in broadcasting had the van, right?
So it was perfect.
We just didn't have a dog.
I failed on that level.
No, no, no, sounds good.
Okay, so what happened?
Well, we got there and I knew the caretaker, so he let us in and we kind of had free reign of the place.
And so we were fully prepared.
We had everything charged.
We got out.
We maybe walked 50 feet towards the first place we wanted to go is this old barn area when suddenly the camera battery died and a couple of the light batteries died.
Like literally.
So we had to go back, switch out the batteries, start charging them again.
And that would happen to us all night.
It's like you'd have a fully charged battery that should last you like, you know, eight hours and they would just go after like, you know, half hour or an hour.
So we were constantly charging batteries.
The psychic started picking stuff up, not so much in the barn, but we ended up going over to the abattoir.
And she was sort of picking up vibes from in there, obviously.
You know, it was a slaughterhouse used for slaughtering animals.
So hang on, this site had an abattoir nearby.
My God, it had everything.
It was a little city unto itself just because of tuberculosis, right?
You know, it'd be like, you know, creating a little city to care for COVID patients, basically.
Once it started to, you know, other people got it, it was very quickly could spread, especially back then, which was early 1900s.
So they had to be completely self-contained.
And back then, it would have been a good hour drive back into town.
So yeah, we would just make our way through.
We went to what would be one time where military barracks for the soldiers who came back were being treated.
And then it was used for patients.
We were in this building and we had power.
So we had all the lights on and we were kind of walking around and Donna, who was our psyche, was doing some readings.
And then all the lights in the building went out and she screamed, like absolutely screamed.
And then the lights somehow came back on.
It was like one of the, again, you're talking Scooby-Doo moments.
And you could see where it was winter.
So we're wearing toques and it looked like her toque had been pulled up off her head.
Sorry, hold on.
Hold on, British guy here.
What's a toque?
Oh, toque.
I guess you call them beanies as well.
It's like a wool cap wear in the winter that covers your ears.
I love that one, I'm going to start using that one as well.
You're a gift that keeps on giving.
So there you are wearing your toques and spooky stuff is happening.
The power goes off and on again.
There's a bit of screaming.
It sounds like it's getting a little bit edgy.
It was.
That was kind of the one moment that we all just kind of paused because you could see it.
Like, you know, when you grab someone's hat and you kind of lift it up and you can kind of almost see the finger marks on it and it kind of has left your head and it sort of settles back down.
It was just like that.
It was just, we all saw it.
We filmed it.
It was crazy.
That was the most dramatic thing that kind of happened in terms of like activity there, but that was kind of enough for us.
We were there all night.
We had one other scary moment happen.
And this happens on investigations.
It was very easily explained away.
But you get riled up as you're there longer and these things are happening to you.
So we were in another building that was like a hospital.
And I was there with my friend Sean, who had had experiences out there before.
And he was sort of using flashlights and going down the hallway and he stopped and he just got this freaked out look on his face.
And he's like, dude.
And I'm like, what?
He goes, look.
And he shows this flashlight down there.
And you could see it look like the silhouette of a little girl down the hall.
Oh, my God.
I was like, oh, my God.
And I saw it too.
And like the skin started crawling and getting goosebumps.
And we kind of, but it didn't move.
It was there.
So we started walking towards it.
And it turned out it was this cardboard cutout that the caretaker had placed around various buildings to make it look like people were in there just to scare off people who were sneaking in because that was a big problem, right?
Because of all the stories.
And so that was like, it was a cardboard cutout, but, you know, in the moment, all amped up from everything else, we both legitimately thought we saw the spirit of a girl standing at the end of the hallway.
Right.
Well, that's enough to scare you until you realized what it was.
Yeah, definitely, definitely.
And so that was like my first real-time investigating.
I went back to Tronkill a few times after that.
One time I went back about, it was probably less than a year later, I went back with Donna, just her and I, in the daytime to check stuff out.
We were searching around.
We'd done some research into a couple of stories and we're looking around and didn't really have anything happen.
It was just nice to be out there during the daytime to see everything.
It was nowhere near as eerie.
And there's a tunnel system underneath because the snow here used to get so much that in order to move food and patients, it was just easier to go underground at this location.
Wow.
So just like an airport, there's a system of tunnels to allow everything to continue smoothly.
Exactly.
Wow.
Exactly.
Which is amazing.
And they're scary.
The tunnels are scary because they're tunnels.
So how long have they been disused for?
By that point, it had been, it was kind of closed in the early 80s.
So I'm going to say like 83, 84, kind of when I was going into high school.
And here we're talking 2004.
So 20 years later.
20 years of disuse.
Probably a certain amount of damp, probably a bit smelly, a little dark, and definitely spooky.
And definitely spooky in the sound.
Like there's no real sound down there.
You know, when you get that dead air sound, it has its own feel to it.
So we'd gone through these tunnels and we come up in a laundry facility and we're thinking, well, it's time to get going home.
We've been there all day.
It's getting around three, four o'clock.
We decided to go back through the tunnels instead of crossing overground.
I don't know why.
We just decided it was a good idea.
Felt like doing that.
We go back to the door we had gone through three minutes before.
I open it and I get it about three quarters of the way open when suddenly it slams shut with enough force that I'm pulled off my feet and actually go into the door.
Like something on the other side grabbed it and pulled it shut with just that much power.
And I'm a 6'1, but 180, 185, depending on the day.
And it was, it, I, I had no control.
It was like a force way stronger than I am yanking the door shut.
Donna screamed and ran up the stairs through the laundry facility.
And I wasn't far behind her.
I'm not going to lie.
I was out of there.
There's no way that we had just gone through there.
There was no locks.
There's no, there's no airflow.
There's nothing.
So you're sure it wasn't some kind of vacuum effect?
There could have been.
There was no vacuum down there.
We had just walked through it.
I don't know what it was.
Sounds like something didn't want you there.
Exactly.
And didn't want us to go back through the tunnels.
So we left.
We went up and we just kind of walked across the property to the car and kind of just drove away.
That's pretty much one of the last times I was able to go out there because ownership changed and people weren't allowed in and the buildings have now fallen into disrepair.
So much so that they're just kind of coming down on their own now, which is too bad because it's a great location.
They've used it.
And who knows, of course, when those buildings come down, they might redevelop the site and something spooky and scary may be left there.
They might build lovely new apartments there and the poor, unbeknowing residents of these new apartments, I'm not saying this will happen, but may end up being scared out of their wits.
Well, there's been speculation because they've tried selling the land many times to different developers and the deals always fallen apart.
So if you want to get really kind of freaky about things, it kind of makes you think the place doesn't want to be sold.
It just wants to almost fall apart.
You know what I mean?
And just kind of be done and let the history of the sad history of the place.
If you're looking for real estate, we know a location.
That's right.
Cheap.
It's going cheap.
Just one small problem here.
Did you, in your investigations of that place and sanatoriums, old hospitals, these things in this country are full of paranormal experiences for people to go and sample if they dare.
Have you heard stories from there of anything communicating with people?
In other words, the experiences that you had tended to be things that were dissociated from you, the investigator.
There didn't seem to me like there was something, apart from the slamming door that might have been a way to give you a message and you certainly got it.
But, you know, there are other cases in places like that where things appear and they communicate.
We didn't have anything like that happen.
And no other real, the only people that have been allowed in there that I'm aware of in terms of investigators, it was an old MTV show called MTV's Fear, where they spent the night and had stuff happen.
And I watched it.
And I don't know if I could ever take anything on a show like that with too much seriousness.
You know what I mean?
Because they just, it was like this game show challenge, stay all night.
So I don't know how much of that was made up for the show.
But on that show, they definitely had things communicating with them.
No other team's really been allowed in, partly because it's not safe anymore.
And I think also just, yeah, that's been the primary reason because it's always been up, you know, a sale involved since 2004.
And it's just not safe.
I know people have taken it over and they will do kind of escape room challenges down in the tunnels, which is about the only safe place, I think, right now.
And they do like corn mazes and stuff.
So it's been a bit commercialized.
And so they just start letting people in to investigate.
I'd love to go back now, especially now that it's been almost a good 20 years again and just sort of see what happens.
But it's just we've just, people have been hesitant.
We've been hesitant to go into the safety concerns.
And the people there have been hesitant to let people in and just been doing it for their own means.
So I don't really know, unfortunately, Howard.
Now, you've done a lot of investigations over the years.
Anything that we might call demonic, anything malevolent that you've come across?
I've never really had anything malevolent.
The most malevolent would be the door, I'd almost argue.
The reason I say this is that one of your videos that I looked at from the We Want to Believe series online, I took a look at a couple of these things, was about a thing that fascinated me called the demon jar.
Yes, yes, the demon jar.
Talk to me about that.
I will.
Yeah, absolutely.
And it's one of those, like, I don't so much believe in the demonic.
Neither does Peter Wren, who's the lead investigator on the show and who heads Vancouver.
Is he the English guy in the videos?
He's the English guy.
Yeah, that's Peter.
And it's interesting because he is also, he is an investigator for an ordained exorcist out of Washington State.
So he's the guy that goes in and to determine if there's anything, you know, possession-wise happening.
And he's maybe experienced one thing in all the years he's been doing it that could be going that direction.
But he's a big believer, and it's more like a negative spirit.
So if you're a good person in life, you're going to be a good spirit.
And if you're a bad person, you're going to be a negative spirit.
But we went into this hotel where we filmed the Demon Jar episode.
And the story that went on there is an Indigenous man who is a frequent visitor to the bar.
There's a front bar and a rear bar.
The rear bar is closed.
The front bar is still open.
The hotel is used primarily for social housing.
I don't think it's a good idea for there to be a bar and a social housing building, but whatever.
This point of the ways that they're making money.
And this Indigenous man claimed to be a witch doctor.
And he said every time he had gone in, he had been plagued by a spirit that he called a demon.
And somehow, I don't know how, how valid this is, he claimed to catch it in a jar that he then gave to the hotel staff and said, don't let it out.
So that's kind of the backstory to this that we were unaware of when we were going in to do our investigation there.
We were just going in because we had heard there's some interesting haunting stories.
This is almost like the Tales of the Dibbook box.
There's a captured spirit that hasn't been put in a box or a wardrobe or a cupboard, but is actually in a jar.
In a jar, sealed and then kind of double sealed with tape to kind of close, keep the jar closed.
And it's a glass jar, too, so you could see in there.
So it is Pandora's box, isn't it?
Don't open it.
Well, yeah, no one wants to open it.
I don't blame them.
I wouldn't either.
I don't know if I believe in such things, but I still wouldn't want to play around.
And when we were being shown this jar, Howard, it was interesting.
Like it would be empty and then you'd go back and look at it later and there'd be condensation on the inside.
And then you'd leave and come back and it would be completely clear again.
And this happened three or four times over the course of our investigation there, which was a day-long investigation, which was unusual.
Like there's no moisture inside.
There's no way anything can get in or out, but it would do that.
And so when we were doing a tour, after we were looking at this jar, we're doing a site tour because it's kind of how you start every investigation.
And when we do our show, we like to kind of do the same thing to hear the stories that go along with the place.
We were up on one of the floors.
Reese is taking us around and we're in this one room.
He's sort of talking about it.
And across the hall, there's a gentleman just starts yelling and screaming at something and swearing at it and telling it to go away.
And he's throwing around the word demon.
Like, you know, you demon, get out of here and bleep you and all this stuff.
You're a murderer, et cetera.
And so we asked Rhys, what's going on?
And he said, this happens to the guy every once in a while, that he just starts seeing something.
Something visits him in his room that he thinks is a demon and he starts yelling at it.
And the guy, I mean, we've got to take in mind it's social housing.
So people do have mental health issues and have dealt with addiction problems.
But Rhys claimed, the manager claimed that this guy was clean.
He just has, this happened to him.
But it was interesting to hear that word demon thrown around that we actually recorded.
You probably even hear it in the episode a bit.
And then we also heard there's the demon jar.
So that's kind of two bits of interconnected stuff there.
And then while doing an EVP session, using a spirit box, Peter actually got, when he asked, what, you know, if there's anything there and what is its name, we got the word demon on the spirit box as well, which is sort of three things corroborating some sort of alleged demonic presence in this hotel, if that's indeed what it was.
But it was just three coincidences kind of coming together.
You start to wonder.
You know what I mean?
Anybody tempted, you know, under pure scientific direction, of course, to open the gyre?
We did not do that.
Partly just a suggestion.
That's all.
It was a suggestion.
It was something we thought about.
The people at the hotel didn't want us to do that.
No, I get their reason for that.
I do too.
But I think what's interesting is when the condensation would come and go, in my mind, if there was a spirit in there, is that when it kind of leaves and then comes back?
Do you know what I mean?
Well, it kind of suggests that something is in there breathing.
Yeah.
Something, yeah, something.
Listen, I think there's more to that story to be told.
Maybe that needs a second investigation.
Okay, now a few planned.
Well, I think you should be getting on that one, you know, as soon as it's COVID safe to do it.
Exactly.
One of your investigations for this program, We Want to Believe, and that's a great name for a program, by the way, was about something that I dealt with on my own show a few weeks ago, where I spoke to a couple of people in North Wales who had what appeared to be some kind of nastily possessed doll.
There are a number of stories from England like that.
This one particularly grabbed me from North Wales.
You did a show about haunted dolls, and there were a pair of particularly peculiar and fairly evil-looking dolls that you were dealing with in this one.
Yeah, that's at a location called Bailey House, which is a historic home built sort of in the early 1900s that's had activity for years.
Vancouver Paranormal has been going there for years.
And that's actually the first place I investigated along with Peter Wren that he and I could actually get out and investigate together.
It's about an hour south of where I live.
And Bailey House, it was built by a gentleman who came over from England.
And he built the home for his bride to be, but she never came because she ended up falling in love with someone else.
So it's got that great little tragic backstory to it, right, of sadness.
And it's changed hands several times.
And one of the owner's wives is supposed to have died on the property, whether by means of her own or someone else's, we're not sure.
But there's been stuff happening there, I guess, almost since it was taken over by the Local Heritage Society.
And people have reported hearing voices and seeing apparitions.
And there's a room upstairs that's a child's bedroom, and it's full of those dolls, Howard.
And they're creepy, like as you could see from the video.
They just look unsettling.
And they've got the eyes that always seem to be watching you no matter what.
I mean, I think there was an era where they made dolls that did not have particularly representative faces.
You know, faces that represent anything human, that just look a bit off, really, which is scary.
I mean, they say that that is the thing when people go around dressed up as clowns.
Sometimes that scares people because of the shift away from reality.
You know it's a human being, but there's just enough shift from what we expect for it to be frightening.
Ditto with some of these dolls from a particular era.
They look frightening, and that's before you even build in paranormality.
Exactly.
And it was the post-activity.
What Peter sort of told me is before when they had investigated there, the main house itself didn't have a lot of activity.
And most of it was kind of, there's like a couple other buildings on the property, one of them that was turned into a gift shop.
And they used to get activity downstairs.
But he started going back.
He had a liver transplant.
So after he recovered and everything, he started going back.
And it seemed like the activity had shifted from that outbuilding to the main house.
So when I started going there, we were getting activity in that main house.
And we'd have a bathroom door.
It's like a pocket door.
So those are doors that slide into the wall as opposed to opening inward or outward slam shut into the wall with enough force to take it off the rails.
And that was something, you know, we're upstairs.
Boom.
You heard that go downstairs and the door had been forced into the wall where it was sort of more closed before.
Peter and I were upstairs doing one of our EVP sessions and we were in the kids' room with the dolls and we had a little toy hammer that was on a shelf come flying off the shelf and land on the floor And not like roll off and land.
It was like throwing a distance out of it.
And we actually got that on audio.
You could hear the tick, tick, tick of it hitting the ground.
So that's a touch of poltergeist activity.
Yeah.
Like I've never, other than my incident with that door and then the door and downstairs in Bailey House, never seen anything like that happen.
Like it actually moved on its own.
And we would get a lot of EVPs in there.
Something, a person calling itself Tom, and there was a Tom McDonald that used to own the property.
And that's where actually first time I had a ghost swear at me for no reason.
I was just asking it some questions to identify itself and provide a name that it's for.
I mean, I can only imagine, but without the expletives, what sorts of things was Tom telling you?
Basically to get out.
Not too polite terminology.
He didn't like us being there at all from the gist of it, which I get it.
It's his house.
We're intruding.
He doesn't want us there.
I couldn't imagine a bunch of people coming into my house and yelling at me to say something or did you know anything about Tom?
Was he a person with any issues that might have imprinted themselves?
Not that we found from the research.
There didn't seem to be anything overly spectacular about him, which I mean, is fair enough.
He was just a guy and it was his house for a time.
And obviously in passing, if it's indeed the same Tom, he just likes to stay there.
And we've also found that sometimes ghosts come and go because we've got at Bailey House voices that definitely sound of the 1900s era and then people using more modern terminology.
So there's always a theory that kind of spirits, there are traveling spirits as opposed to just the ones that are just residual, where they just kind of stay at a place and repeat in action.
People have seen a woman in the upstairs bedroom looking down at them from outside.
They're outside, they're looking up, and there's a woman looking down when there's no woman in there, which could be the spirit of the woman who passed away.
So we've had a lot of activity like that at Bailey House.
And one of them, the most striking things other than those two, down in the basement for the episode that we filmed out there, we used a laser grid.
And laser grids are just that.
You have a dark space.
You turn on the laser grid.
It creates this crisscross pattern on a wall.
And the idea is if something cuts in front of that, you see the shadow.
And we had a shadow show up.
And we saw it.
It looked like head, shoulders of a man standing in the room.
So I flipped the light on.
There's nothing obstructing the laser grid.
Turn it off.
It's there.
Did that three or four times until the shadow finally disappeared.
And we filmed that.
We actually have that on film too while filming the episode.
I don't know why I'm asking you this, but let's give it a go.
I am fascinated, as you might be, I don't know, about time slips.
It's a very famous one that happened in my home city of Liverpool.
I wonder if you've ever come across, I know it's not ghosts per se, but I wonder if you've come across, you know, in the greater Vancouver area, any stories like that.
I kind of sometimes think, Howard, that that maybe explains a lot of this kind of activity, if that makes sense to you, that we're getting time slips.
I know what was interesting in one of the buildings, this is going back to Tronquill.
We were inside the building and there's a lot of broken windows, but we're getting no outside noise, none at all.
But you'd go outside and you could hear like a train going by or wildlife, you know what I mean?
And I always wonder if when you're inside, you just, you slip into, we'd slip sort of into just a slightly different time period where that wasn't happening or you're indoors when the windows were actually all up together.
So I buy a lot into that.
And that's even something science is looking at, you know, time slips, alternate timelines.
You know, sometimes in the days when, I don't know, you're not of the, not too much of the record playing generation, but you are, and so am I. It's almost like there are parallel tracks on what we used to call an LP.
Yes, I know this was way before MP3s and digital slam files.
You know, a piece of plastic black, 12 inches wide, used to have music on it.
The Beatles used to use them and the Beach Boys and many other acts until the glorious period of the 1980s and 90s.
But if you push the arm, actually tracking and playing an LP, then you go on to something else.
I always think that reality is a series of tracks on an LP.
And sometimes you can go to a location where the arm that is tracking the song that you are a part of at the moment, in other words, your life and your reality, gets flipped across.
And suddenly you're experiencing the next track or band on the LP.
You know, some disc jockeys used to say, I'm going to play a band from this LP because, you know, it sounds a cool way of saying track.
But you flip off over to the next band and suddenly you're in somebody else's reality.
I agree.
I think that's exactly kind of what goes on with, I'd say, almost all of this paranormal stuff.
We liken it like, you know, we're all made of energy, electromagnetic energy.
And that's also what is around the planet, right?
This electromagnetic field.
And so when someone dies, that energy goes somewhere.
And it almost, like you say, it becomes a track on the LP.
And if you're at the right place at the right time, you can tune into that track and hear it.
I look because I was mostly a teenager through the 80s.
We had tapes and you could record on a tape and sometimes you could record over it many times and you'd be listening to a song, but you'd hear that echo of the old song on it.
Yeah, sometimes the erase head wouldn't completely get rid of it.
Exactly.
Same kind of deal, yeah.
Yeah, same thing.
And that's kind of what I think is happening with all this stuff.
And some of them are just like a residual haunting, which is the same thing, just the same recording, just playing over and over again.
And then there's the intelligent kind, which can interact with you for whatever reason, sets it apart.
I don't know if it was maybe a stronger presence or something happened in the death process, et cetera, that allows it to do that.
But I think that's kind of how all this is explained in my mind, as opposed to a scientific reason.
I think there's a lot in that.
But, you know, what does either of us know?
Maybe one day we'll get, hopefully on this side of the mortal coil, we'll get proof of it.
You talked about Peter Wren, the English guy that you worked with, and you mentioned the word exorcism, that he'd in some way been involved in those sorts of things.
Have you ever been involved as a team in Vancouver in anything that equates to an exorcism, dealing with the spirit?
No, I haven't.
I would love to, just out of fascination with the idea of it.
And Peter hasn't either, but he kind of takes things to the point where he will recommend to the exorcist whether or not it Should go forward.
And he's only had one incident that he shared with me because we wrote a book together, and I could share it with you if you'd like.
I'd love it.
He was in contact with a family whose daughter had started to just behave strangely, you know, and it could be partly chalked up to just being a teenager.
But what had happened is one time the family had come home and the daughter was nowhere to be found.
And they could hear, it was like they went upstairs to check her room and they couldn't get inside the room.
And so the family kind of forced the door open and a dresser had been pushed against the door.
And then the daughter wasn't in the room.
But there's also, they could hear a commotion in the closet.
There's another dresser almost forcing that closet door shut.
So they opened it and the girl was in there and she claimed something had attacked her.
And she had like, you know, the scratch marks on her body.
And written on the ceiling, no way that anyone could get up there in Aramaic was the word demon.
Right.
Well, in any movie, that's always Latin.
That's straight out of the exorcist, isn't it?
Apart from the fact, as you say, that it wasn't Latin.
Yeah, it wasn't Latin.
And in movies, it's always Latin, you know, and stuff.
But in actual biblical language, language of God is Aramaic.
So they contacted a priest who then got in touch with this exorcist down in Washington State.
And he put Peter on the case, and he conducted a series of interviews with the family via Skype because he wasn't in the same community.
He was up in Kitimat, which is like an eight, nine-hour drive north.
Excuse me.
And over the course of the interviews, the girl's behavior just started to get worse.
And the family reported that they would see her in one part of the house, but she'd actually be in another part of the house at the exact same time.
Like they'd sort of see her in the living room and then go for her, go turn around and go upstairs, and she was actually upstairs.
And she just started getting more aggressive behavior.
And so Peter was geared up to come down and actually meet with the family in person and talk to them when he had to have his liver transplant.
So he was sidelined for several months.
Once he recovered, he had one communication with them, wanting to set up a time to come down.
They weren't ready to commit at that point.
He followed up with them again and just couldn't get a hold of them, the family at all.
So he actually took it upon himself when he was going down to Vancouver to stop at this family's home.
And there was nobody at the house.
The house was empty.
Oh, Lord.
Yeah.
And he wasn't able to track them down on any kind of social media or any of that.
So for all he knows, the family just disappeared or took off or didn't want to take the process any further.
If indeed something was even going on.
You know what I mean?
That makes you wonder where they look at.
They might have just upped and left.
Yeah.
Yeah, they had just upped and left.
And he's never heard from them again.
That was a good two years now since that had happened.
But he says that's the closest he came to being convinced there could be something going on that would require a form of exorcism.
That's quite a intervention.
And you're writing a great story at the moment, aren't you, with Peter?
Yeah, we just finished it, and it's because he's been doing it 27 years, paranormal investigation.
He started in Croydon, Croydon Paranormal.
That is about 10 miles from where I'm speaking to you from.
And that's where he grew up, was in Croydon.
I'll send his regards to Croydon, South London for you.
Please do.
And he's investigated in New Zealand and in Australia and then obviously over here in Canada and had a lot of stories.
I've heard a lot of them.
And when we first launched We Want to Believe, we went on a couple of shows just to talk about it.
And one of them was a show called Into the Fray, hosted by Shannon Legro, who's a podcast with an interest in the paranormal.
And she started as co-founder of a publishing house called Beyond the Fray Publishing.
So when we were talking to her and hearing some of Peter's story, she's like, oh, that'd make a great book.
And Peter was like, oh, you know, well, I don't have time, blah, blah, blah.
And in my head, I'm like, I wrote for newspapers for 10 years.
I could easily write that book.
So I followed up with Shannon, and she was serious about wanting to do something with it.
So I convinced Peter it was a good idea.
And we spent the summer kind of writing this book that we just signed the contract on two weeks ago.
And so sometime in the next year, it's going to be published under the title, I Want to Believe One Man's Journey into the Paranormal.
But we talk about, there must be a good, more than a dozen stories that we kind of chronicle in that book, which finishes with him and I investigating, doing our investigation at Bailey House and then launching the show.
So we hope to chronicle more stories in the future if the book does well.
Okay.
We know about Bailey House and we know about the asylum.
Anything from the book that you can share with me just to tease my audience?
There was another story, the Colmont Hotel, which is here in British Columbia as well.
It's a closed hotel, but it's from a Gold Rush town, which basically all there was functioning when Vancouver Paranormal went in.
It was basically just a hotel and a gas station.
You know, it's that kind of place right now.
The town's almost dead.
And the hotel's since closed, but there's been lots of activity that's gone on at this hotel over the years.
And the team spent a good weekend there, and they were up on a third floor, which is closed.
It was in sort of disrepair, looking around.
And for whatever reason, Peter decided, they found this high chair, a kid's high chair, that they would take with them to every room while they were doing this investigation.
They didn't know why.
They were just compelled to do it.
But whenever they had moved, you could hear footsteps following them in this high chair around the third floor.
And down in the bar of this hotel, Peter actually caught on film a picture of an apparition while he was sitting in the bar.
He could sit there.
He was just doing an EVP session on his own, and he could suddenly smell like perfume.
And he got the sense of something walking up to him.
So he used the auto fire on his camera, like, you know, the remote.
And this camera has a crystal lens, so it doesn't reflect light.
It just sort of absorbs the light.
So you don't get any flares or anything.
And he got a picture of a woman standing next to him at the bar, which I thought was pretty wild stuff.
So did he think that the footsteps were maybe, this is extrapolating an awful lot from what we know here, but maybe a mother perhaps to whom a story is connected following around where that high chair is going?
I don't know.
That's certainly to me is what it seems like.
Or even because maybe the child following its high chair around, right?
I'm sort of getting mental images here of the Bates Motel.
It's definitely like it doesn't look like a Bates motel, but it from the structure-wise, but it definitely feels like that from just the stories that I've heard going on there.
So, that's just one of the many stories in the book.
And then we have another one about there's a few haunted house stories that were that Peter went to and theaters because theaters have a long history.
I'm really pleased you said that because I was going to raise this.
I've heard of a few haunted theaters in Canada.
In fact, there's a theater.
I spoke to one of the people behind this in Picton, Ontario.
You might well have heard this story on the CBC there, who've actually advertised for a resident ghost.
They think they might have a ghost already, but they want to make sure that they've got a real scary, spooky resident ghost.
So they basically asked for people to come forward, and they found somebody now.
I think everybody paid in like $25 towards the upkeep of the theater, which is a great idea at the moment.
And they now have a guy who is going to be the resident ghost when in many years from now, of course, he ceases to be on this plane.
So, you know, haunted theaters in Canada.
Have you got a haunted theater story?
Well, we have one actually in my hometown.
We have the Sagebrush Theater.
And if you believe the stories, it's attached to one of the high schools, of all things.
But the site where it was built is perfect.
It used to be a graveyard.
And of course, they've moved the graveyard down, and you can see where they moved it to build this theater.
But there's a spirit there named Albert who is said to reside there.
And he kind of makes his presence known to the people, the theater company.
And he even has his own designated seat where he's supposed to watch the plays.
And I've actually gone up and sat in that seat just to see if anything would happen.
Nothing did.
Was Albert somebody who we think worked at the theater or lived and died at the theater or perhaps an occupant of the graveyard that was there before?
They figure he's an occupant of the graveyard that was there before.
And maybe his body just didn't get moved, right?
There's always that, did they move all the bodies or leave some behind?
Was it easier just to move the tombstones and not the bodies?
But there's a lot of stories associated with that.
And I've even, a friend of mine was a janitor, and he actually worked in the sagebrush overnight.
And he reported to me many times, he'd be vacuuming and the vacuum would come unplugged, unplugged.
Or he'd go for lunch in a different part of the theater and he'd hear noises like people walking around up on the walkways and stuff like that while he was there.
So we've tried to get in to investigate.
The theater company seems a bit hesitant and they wanted to charge us money to go in anyways.
Oh, no.
Which is like, ah, I'm not really prepared to do that at this point.
Well, no, I mean, they've got to see the big picture.
The big picture is all the publicity that you would get from you being involved in that.
Well, that's what I think.
So I want to go back after COVID and pitch.
You know, we're doing this show.
This is great free publicity for you guys.
And I think it'd just be cool to go in there and just see if we could find anything.
Because there's been stories about Albert for as long as I can remember.
But nobody knows his backstory, though.
No, nobody really has come up with that other than he was a spirit, someone who had died in the graveyard.
Because they only have the first name, right?
I'd like to do some more research, especially if we're doing a show, to actually find out the first name, last name if we can, and see who he could be.
Oh, well, that's ready-made.
As soon as we get COVID out the way, as soon as we're not in lockdown, as soon as this lunacy ends for us all, this madness that is COVID is cleared from us one way or the other, vaccine or whatever it is, you know, there are lots of things to do, it sounds to me.
Now, North America is famous for haunted theaters and haunted hotels and haunted venues of all sorts of kinds.
It's also famous in a number of instances, certainly the USA, for haunted railroads.
And the railway is a big part of Canada, isn't there?
What was the name of it?
There's a famous railway company that goes across Canada.
I've forgotten the name now.
Canadian National and Canadian Pacific.
Canadian Pacific, okay, was connected with, you know, my links are to Liverpool.
And my uncle Charlie worked for the Pacific Steam Navigation Company.
And they were connected with the Canadian Railroads because that's one of the places that they went.
Any stories, any hauntings that you're aware of around railroads?
Not locally, at least that we're aware, but there is a town called Ashcroft that we've been to, which is quite a haunted history.
And it ties in not only to the gold rush, but the railway because it goes through there.
And there's sort of stories of sort of Chinese immigrants who came to work on the railway and died.
And people have seen spirits kind of wandering out in the fields, et cetera, around where the railways are.
That's about the closest we've ever got to a haunted railway story, at least out here in Western Canada.
I think out east there's there's more and more likely ones.
But unfortunately, I haven't been able to get out there and investigate them myself, Howard.
Sorry.
But listen, it's been an absolute blast for me to be able to connect like this to Western Canada.
I'm recording this.
It's exactly, well, it's just after 7 o'clock in the evening here.
What time is it with you?
11 o'clock in the morning, I'm guessing?
Yeah, 11.02 a.m.
I have.
That's just amazing what we can do now.
So as you look into 2021 then, what is the first project you would like to do in 2021?
You might have suggested that already, I think, in this conversation.
Well, I definitely would like to get to the sagebrush and go and investigate there.
And then it'd be great to pursue the tronchial option if we can and go out and do an investigation there.
And I'd like to, I mean, just because right now the lower mainland, Vancouver, is just a place.
They're even telling you not to go there now, unless you have to.
But there's so many different places that Peter and I would like to get down to.
We've got a residential haunting we'd like to check out.
We've got another hotel where things have happened that we want to get into.
This must be quite active.
There's a residential school there that I investigated with Peter in 2019, which is very active.
And it'd be great to go back and just investigate that.
And of course, residential schools have a very long history in Canada of abuse and death.
And this one's definitely no different.
Trauma always imprints itself on a location.
Well, almost always, I think.
Well, look, I'd love to come to Western Canada.
I've heard stories all my life about Vancouver.
I would love to see it.
So if you'd like another member of the team, perhaps a part-timer, to tag along, when we're allowed to fly again, maybe that man could be me.
I would love that, Howard.
You're more than welcome to join us.
And Peter would be very excited because I told him that you and I were talking.
He's like, I would watch him on the news.
You know what I mean?
Yeah, well, listen, I could tell him tales of Croydon because I'm still connected to Croydon here, even though I'm 10 miles away from it.
Pleasure to talk with you, Jason.
If people want to learn all about you, take a look at the work with the Vancouver group or your video work.
Where do they go?
Well, fortunately on Facebook, we've got Vancouver Paranormal.
Society has their own page, and we have We Want to Believe the series is on there as well.
Vancouver Paranormal also has a website, vancouverparanormal.com.
Or you can just Google that and it'll come up.
And We Want to Believe is also available on Joe Blow Horror Videos.
And I also have a site, wecamefromthebasement.com, where it's available as well.
Nice one.
Great pleasure to speak with you.
Love the idea of Canada.
One of these days I'm going to get there and we must talk again, Jason.
I'm just thrilled that we've been able to have this conversation now.
I would love that very much, Howard.
I'd be very excited to do so again.
Thank you.
Thank you for coming on.
Jason Hewlett and your thoughts about him, gratefully received and very welcome.
Love to hear from you.
If you want to say anything, you know, send me a guest suggestion or anything, then go to my website, theunexplained.tv.
Click on the link.
You can send me an email from there.
When you get in touch, tell me who you are, where you are, and how you use the show.
And it's lovely to know that you are out there while I am here, you know, doing my thing, as they say, doing my thing.
Thank you very much for being part of this.
More great guests in the pipeline here at The Unexplained.
So until next we meet, my name is Howard Hughes.
This has been The Unexplained Online.
And please, whatever you do, stay safe, stay calm, and above all, please stay in touch.
Thank you very much.
Take care.
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