The Unexplained - Howard Hughes - Edition 490 - Bruce Fenton

Oct. 26, 2020 - The Unexplained - Howard Hughes

01:04:54

Edition 490 - Bruce Fenton

Researcher Bruce Fenton on his new book Exogenesis that suggests our DNA was modified by extra-terrestrial influencers...

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	Across the UK, across continental North America, and around the world on the internet, by webcast and by podcast, my name is Howard Hughes, and this is the return of the unexplained.
	Well, I hope that life is treating you well.
	As I speak to you, and I've got to be honest about this in case how I sound betrays that fact.
	I was up until half past two this morning after my radio show.
	You know, it's always hard to go to sleep when you're all hyped up after the radio show.
	And so I was up just a few hours later to do what I'm about to do now.
	We're going to be speaking with Bruce Fenton, explorer, adventurer, investigator of ancient mysteries, on the possibility that in our very deeply ancient past, we were modified by extraterrestrials, effectively, I think is the point of the book, which is called Exogenesis.
	We're going to talk around that with Bruce Fenton, who gets around this world.
	As you know, Bruce has spent a lot of his time in Australia.
	He is now back in the UK, and he's currently, I think, in the west of England, but we'll get some clarity on that very soon.
	A strange thing with the radio show that I did last night, though, and if you heard it, you'll know what I'm talking about here.
	We had Jane Teresa Anderson on, and we were talking about analysis of dreams.
	We've got a lot of calls and tweets and texts, and thank you for those.
	And I always find that truly fascinating.
	I think our dreams are there to tell us a great deal.
	You know, whether they're seeded by, I don't know, the ghosts of people who've been here before or whether they're just the workings of our minds, I've never really been sure.
	But after the program, this is the point, overnight last night, I had this dream where I was interviewing in a great big room, Jeremy Clarkson, you know, the guy from Top Gear, formerly, and now from the Grand Tour TV program.
	You know, great guy, very funny, very witty, very intelligent.
	And I'm interviewing him in this great big room, and I'm doing it with a little tiny recorder that looks like almost like a little a third of the size of a pencil, and I can barely see the markings on it.
	We have a wonderful conversation, and I'm thinking, this is Radio Gold, it's going to win awards.
	Fantastic.
	Thank you, Jeremy Clarkson.
	He has to leave quickly.
	I then look at the recorder and realize that none of it is recorded.
	Then I look at the people in the room, and some of them are former colleagues from radio.
	I can see their faces as clearly as if they were here now.
	And they're all blaming me.
	Then I woke up in a panic.
	So dreams, you talk about dreams and they happen.
	Strange thing.
	Sorry, I just thought you'd want to hear that story.
	Thank you very much for all of your emails that come in.
	If you want to communicate with me, please go to my website, theunexplained.tv.
	You can follow the link and send me an email from there.
	You can also make a donation to keep this work going there.
	And if you have made a donation recently to the show, thank you very much from the bottom of my heart for doing that.
	That's very kind of you.
	And it is utterly vital for whatever comes next in this very deeply strange world in which we live.
	I'm not going to go into that on this occasion.
	But thank you for the emails.
	I've had some lovely ones recently.
	Thank you to my webmaster, Adam, for his hard work as ever.
	And thank you to Haley for booking the guests.
	When you get in touch with me, I know I always say this, like a broken record, please tell me who you are, where you are, and how you use this show.
	Very important for me, that.
	I think that's all I've got to say, apart from the fact that I'm looking out of the window now.
	It's morning time.
	And for once, it actually looks like the sun is going to shine.
	So hopefully, if I get myself together, I might be able to go and take a little bit of fresh air later.
	Let's hope, hey, hope everything's okay with you, though, wherever you are.
	Right, let's get down to the west of England to Bruce Fenton, and we're going to talk about us and extraterrestrials in our distant past.
	An ancient mystery, I guess you could call it.
	Bruce Fenton, thank you for coming back on my show.
	How are you?
	I'm doing very well, thank you, and I hope that you're the same.
	Yeah, well, you know, getting by.
	Now, you move around a lot, don't you?
	We've spoken from various locations.
	Recently, Sydney, but I know you came back to the UK.
	You're a hard man to pin down.
	Where are you now?
	So I'm back in Stroud.
	Yeah, we moved back from Australia to, then we were in Wales, actually, for a year and a half.
	And finally, I'm back in Stroud where my parents live.
	Well, there are very few places, I'm talking to my international listener now, more beautiful and more rural than Stroud.
	So, you know, I'm very envious of you here in London, where we've gone into tier two restrictions and all sorts of stuff is kicking off.
	So I think Stroud is probably a very good place to be now, Bruce.
	Yes.
	I mean, actually, that was partly why we ended up here, was we were in Wales and they seem to have an eternal lockdown in Cleneffly, where we were.
	So we kind of moved forward a plan to return to England, you know, partly because of that quite honestly.
	We sort of hurried it along a bit.
	So yeah, it's, you know, they're now back into, I think they're back into a stricter lockdown in Cleneffley, actually, which was particular to them rather than the whole county.
	So I'm quite glad not to be there.
	Well, who knows what's going to happen, but, you know, at least here we are now.
	All we know is that here we are now recording this conversation.
	And that's a bonus, I think.
	All right, for listeners who are new to you and the stuff that you do with Dan Yeller, your partner, how do we describe you?
	What should I call you?
	I have to admit, I sometimes do change how I describe myself because it's difficult because I have a wide range of interests and I've researched in the paranormal.
	I've researched in history in terms of prehistory and mysteries of history, which obviously I'm not a historian, but I have a great interest in the prehistoric mysteries as well as ancient civilizations.
	I've also been a sort of adventurer going out into the jungle and into the Caucasian mountains and stuff with Science Channel.
	So, I mean, it's such a wide range.
	In the end, I've sort of come to things like, you know, am I a multidisciplinary researcher or, you know, some kind of ancient mysteries researcher?
	So I don't know.
	I don't know what we call it.
	An anomalous phenomena researcher.
	I don't know what it is.
	Quester after adventure.
	I think Quester After Adventure kind of does it.
	Just before we start talking about exogenesis, your new book and new research, which jungle?
	What was all that about?
	Yeah, when I was living in Ecuador, I ended up at a sort of coincidentally ended up in a meeting with a shaman.
	we were meeting the shaman, but there was someone else there who was a friend of theirs who had just returned from the jungle where they found what seemed to be an ancient, mysterious, kind of megalithic site.
	And that was in the Yanganatis area, which is kind of the central jungles of Ecuador, part of the Amazon jungle.
	And I ended up going there in two different expeditions to this site, which is, you know, it's through swamps, over mountains.
	It's a really, really grueling kind of hike.
	And yeah, there is a peculiar megalithic structure that looks a bit like the ones you'd see in Peru, you know, with these polygonal blocks.
	And that's just out in the middle of nowhere in the jungle.
	And there's no culture should be there.
	You know, there's no history of the Inca or Pri-Inca having built anything in that area.
	So it's a really big mystery.
	And that was reported on in, I think it was in the Telegraph.
	And I think possibly one of the tabloids picked it up as well.
	But that was going back in 2014, if I remember rightly, that I did that.
	So yeah, that's a really strange place.
	And I still mean to write it up in a book at some point.
	But yeah, interesting.
	But we're discovering things all the time.
	You know, down the road from Ecuador in Peru, over the weekend, there was some remarkable news.
	I'm sure you saw it about this on the NASCAR lines, this 37-foot-long image of a cat had been produced.
	You know, whoever had been there before, and there are other figures on hillsides and in that area, you know, on, well, slopes.
	I don't think hillsides there, but this thing is amazing.
	And you think to yourself, who would put a 37-foot figure, a picture, a cartoon almost of a cat, there?
	And how would they know the proportions and what did it mean and why a cat?
	All of those things came into my mind.
	And I'm sure anybody who's seen that picture, I recommend that you do see it.
	You know, what mystery lies behind that, I suppose, is what I'm saying.
	Yeah, and they found, I know they found quite a lot of new glyphs, haven't they, in the last year or so?
	There's a project going on there.
	And amongst them, I believe, were a number of creatures like hummingbirds and tarantulas and things that were identified as being most likely jungle animals, which is, of course, the Nazca Plains is not near a jungle, which then begs that question again of where does that culture trace back to?
	Who are these people?
	Why would they have images that seem to come from far, far away and stuff like that?
	So there's definitely a lot of mysteries coming out as they discover more and more of the geoglyphs there, which I think, again, are linking to a lost culture that maybe stretched across the Americas or at least moved around across the Americas.
	And seem to venerate, as the ancient Egyptians seem to have, you know, a lot of time for cats.
	So, I mean, cats are mysterious animals.
	We know that anyway, but obviously they'd figured that out, but to a much greater degree than our modern societies.
	But as you say, and thank you for giving me the word, I've forgotten it, that these geoglyphs are fascinating.
	They seem to point the way to all sorts of discoveries.
	Absolutely.
	And I think, as you know, both Graham Hancock has sort of written on those glyphs fairly recently.
	And of course, Eric von Daniken, I think, is funding or he's very much involved in a project there at the moment with, you know, helicopters and whatnot, looking at these glyphs and stuff.
	So, I mean, there's, you know, there's a lot of interest from the better-known characters in the field of ancient mysteries, you know, on that region.
	So, I mean, hopefully they will bring out some additional details that perhaps the mainstream won't pick up on.
	Because, of course, I think there's always some blinders, as you know, in mainstream academia, and that they won't necessarily go there with some of the more speculative theories.
	So it's kind of good to have the balance of both academic researchers on the ground and some of the alternative thinkers that were willing to kind of offer us other interpretations of these sites.
	And all of this ties into the discussion that we're about to have about your book and research, exegenesis, about the fact that we may well have been fundamentally influenced by aliens at a time that we would regard as prehistory.
	You know, all of that ties into that.
	And you say in this book, well, let me just read a little bit.
	Two of the most significant questions for humanity are, how do we come into being and are we alone in the universe?
	The culmination of this work is the conclusion that our ancient ancestors were the result of extraterrestrial genetic manipulation.
	That's a big claim.
	It's been made before, but that's a big claim.
	It certainly is.
	I mean, I suppose you can't get many that are bigger.
	There's a few out there, probably, but you know.
	I think that's probably the biggest of all.
	So why the interest in this?
	Well, yeah, really, it came out of a chain of events.
	I know this is often how things work with any kind of research project.
	You could say it started off with the involvement in the jungle that I mentioned outside of the chat.
	I had a kind of a connection in Ecuador with somebody that led to an expedition into the jungle to this mysterious ancient site, which then led me into an era of research which brought about an awareness of a lost civilization of these Aboriginal people that were in South America, which they call the Lagoa Santa.
	And the Lagoasanta, their skull type, is what's called australoid morphology.
	So it shows that they were kind of Oceanian people that were there very early, very mysterious.
	That led me to kind of the project in Australia, where I ended up writing a book, The Forgotten Exodus, which I'm aware of.
	And that dealt with a kind of a rewrite of the early migrations of humans.
	But from that, that kind of took me deeper into the Australian story.
	And I ended up meeting with a lady called Valerie Barrow, who had a book about this encounter she had with an ancient Aboriginal artefact called a Churinga.
	And this mysterious, really sacred object was kept in her house for a period of time.
	The idea was she was trying to get it back to the traditional custodians, which I believe is the indigenous people near Uluru, they should be the custodians of this object.
	So she and another lady had been trying to get it back to them.
	But while she had this object, she started having these really, really strange, you know, kind of communication experiences where, as far as from her perception, that this object transferred information to her, you know, in a kind of voice-to-skull way, you know, not audible conversation, but she'd have this, what seemed like a very direct communication.
	And she wrote a book about this saying that, you know, this object claimed it was an alien technology kind of left here, that it had a consciousness in it, was giving it all this information.
	Now, like anyone else, you know, you could start thinking, well, you know, okay, you know, we hear these kind of stories, you know, you hear channelings and you hear people saying they've had paranormal experiences.
	But usually those don't lead anywhere.
	They're just, you know, they're an interesting story and that's all we can do with them.
	But in this case, her book contained a number of specific claims about a craft, about genetic engineering.
	And I thought, well, if this is genuinely an artifact, you know, that has some kind of connection and it has given her information that's real, then I should, in theory, be able to test that, you know, use the scientific method where we take an extraordinary claim, we test it for evidence, see if there is any extraordinary evidence.
	And if so, then we can say, okay, there's a very good chance this is, you know, genuine.
	And if we can't find any evidence, you know, you can say it's probably just somebody's personal experience and evidence would be something that we didn't previously know, I guess, in that case.
	Yes.
	I mean, one of the difficult things about this, and I remember you talking to me about this last time, we skirted around this, is that this artifact, and you need to tell me, you know, what it looked like and how odd it did look, she doesn't have it anymore.
	That's one of the problems, isn't it?
	And I don't think we know where it is.
	No, as far as I'm aware, it was given back to, well, sent back to the traditional custodians of it.
	So I guess they have it.
	I mean, I always keep thinking at some point will somebody appear and say, having maybe heard what I'm doing and say, yes, we've got it here.
	But it hasn't happened yet.
	It'd be nice if it did.
	I've got listeners all over the world, including, I'm very pleased to say, an awful lot in Australia.
	So maybe somebody who could steer you in the right direction is hearing us talk now.
	But I can understand how meeting that person and hearing those stories could fire off a whole load of thoughts about, you know, where did we come from and who visited here before people who looked like us were here?
	Well, absolutely.
	You know, and I obviously had an interest in, you know, the mysteries of human origins and lost civilizations and all of that.
	So, you know, naturally, anytime I hear a kind of an account that I think might be true about some ancient mystery, you know, I'm interested.
	If there's a potential to find actual evidence, then, you know, of course, I'm doubly or tribly interested, you know, because, of course, there's a thousand stories, you know, we can't spend time on all of them.
	So this one particularly grabbed me because of the potential to identify, you know, real-world objective evidence that might substantiate.
	And if it didn't substantiate the story, the thing is, you know, in science, often whilst looking for, you know, the solution to some problem, you find interesting and useful information anyway.
	So, you know, it doesn't necessarily mean you waste your time, even if you don't validate the original, you know, hypothesis.
	So with that being the case on it, I thought, you know, it was worth putting some real time into.
	And that's exactly what I did.
	And keep in mind, the way I view this is if I found nothing, then I just wouldn't ever talk about it.
	You know, it'd be one of those things you just move on, you know, do something else.
	So the fact that I ended up writing a book about it, of course, is because I ended up finding evidence that I think is not only sort of substantiates parts of her story, but independently from that, just in and of itself, it's just very, very interesting and very, very mysterious.
	Okay, you start, and I can understand why you have this as a starting point, with an explanation of the UFO phenomenon, the alien contact phenomenon, and our interaction with that phenomenon over the years.
	And your starting point is the fact that polls and interpretations of how people are thinking these days suggest that we are now ready for this.
	Absolutely.
	We seem to have a vast, you know, vast number of people, a huge percentage of people that either accept that alien life exists, that UFOs are real, or go as far as saying that they believe extraterrestrial intelligence of some sort has visited this planet either in present times or in ancient times.
	And that's now gone up to around, well, depending on which poll you look at, sort of 30% or 40% or so of people, which means it's really not a fringe belief at all.
	I mean, when you get to that kind of level, I mean, that's really a very popular belief.
	And I think in some polls, it may even be higher than that.
	So I think we've reached a kind of critical mass where these ideas are pushing forward into the mainstream and into, you know, certainly in terms of the numbers, they're becoming sort of a mainstream view, even if the media continues to somewhat treat these as fringe ideas.
	The fact is the numbers behind them are huge.
	So I think that's, we've also, of course, we've seen, as you know, in the recent years, very recent years, the last two or three years, we've seen a kind of a media sea change where we have like the New York Times is reporting on UFOs.
	I mean, they recently had an issue where they were talking about possible recovered materials from downed UFOs.
	I mean, that would have been unthinkable even five years ago.
	And then, of course, we have Lou Alexondo and we have Chris Mellon, you know, who's the former, was it Chief Undersecretary of Defense in the U.S.?
	There's all sorts of people and talk that there may be hearings in Washington.
	So the backdrop for all of this is there, I suppose.
	And who knows, at some point a big truth may be unearthed.
	So you also talk about your own experiences and your partner Daniela's experience too.
	You say in the book Daniela has witnessed a startling example of an anomalous aerial vehicle, an experience that had a profound impact on her and remains the most vivid encounter that she's had with something that resembles an advanced technology.
	You know, there is no substitute for direct personal experience.
	Talk to me about that.
	Yeah, I mean, that was quite a few years back in Australia.
	You know, her father and her saw these three objects hovering over Sydney, you know, International Airport, where she's from Sydney.
	So, I mean, they were just passing by.
	The cars had stopped.
	People were watching these objects.
	And then, you know, they were in a sort of triangular formation.
	And then suddenly, one zips off one way, one another way, and then there's just one left.
	And her father sort of said, you know, we should go.
	I don't like this.
	So they drove off, but this object then started coming in towards them.
	And it was sort of hovering.
	It was quite far above, but they became aware that it seemed to be kind of tracking along behind them.
	And so her father got kind of nervous.
	He was like, you know, I want to get out of here and start saying something, but I've seen kind of strange things like this before in the jungles in Ecuador because he was, you know, he was in the military in Ecuador and he worked in the jungles and stuff.
	So he said he had had experiences with strange objects, lights in the jungle and all sorts of things.
	So he got quite kind of panicked.
	He said this object was coming in closer and closer and it kind of resembled a triangle with a light in each corner and a light in the middle.
	Now that has become, I think, one of the most popular types of UFO that people see is these triangles with the lights at the corners.
	So you can sort of say it's a classic kind of UFO encounter.
	Not quite as popular as the wedding cake style, but certainly I've seen, as you will have seen, many photographs and illustrations of such things.
	Absolutely.
	So, I mean, they're not by any stretch, you know, alone in having seen these kind of triangles.
	So she had a very, very close kind of encounter with this object that appeared to be essentially following their car, which was maybe even a stranger element is the fact it seemed to be kind of focused on them rather than just happening to be around, you know, and seeing it.
	So that was quite strange in of itself.
	I mean, I've had my own encounters.
	Well, I mentioned I've seen the book.
	I've had a couple of different ones.
	One that I reported to the press and to ended up somehow UFO magazine where I saw, I think it's probably about a dozen of these glowing orange spheres that a lot of people see.
	I saw a dozen of them go over my house when I was living in Chelmsford over in Essex.
	And I just happened to be outside watching.
	There was an alignment of planets.
	I was kind of looking up at these planets.
	And these objects, they literally zipped across the sky in a few seconds, from horizon to horizon.
	Clearly, far faster than Chinese balloons would go.
	Now that's a problem because these orange lights.
	It's Chinese lanterns, yeah.
	Sure, but those don't go at the speeds of jet fighters.
	I mean, they just drift along.
	These were incredibly fast.
	So, I mean, I've had my own encounters as well.
	And, you know, again, as you say, those are the things that really ensure that you can't dismiss such stories because if you see it yourself, if you're aware that there is definitely something strange going on, whether it's secret technologies, you know, or an unknown natural phenomena or the government, you know, whatever it is, that there is something peculiar in our skies.
	Now, a little later in the book, you talk about something that's very relevant to this conversation.
	You visit a place called the Gosford Glyphs, and I think you talk about elders appearing to you, talking of a time before this one.
	What happened there?
	Yeah, my wife, Daniela, is a professional psychic and a medium, so she tends to sense and see things that others wouldn't.
	So that was at an Aboriginal sacred site at Gosford.
	There's a kind of a small cluster of rocks, a little bit of a hill there.
	And in that site, you've got a couple of stone walls that are covered in engravings, what appear to be a kind of Proto-Egyptian and other symbols that are not recognizable as Egyptian, that are all over these walls.
	Now, there's a whole load of claims about the site, both in terms of it being legitimate or it being a modern hoax.
	But it is on an illegitimate Aboriginal sacred site.
	And so if you go up onto the rise there, there's, I believe, a woman's business area and a men's business area because they divide up sacred areas.
	And so while she was up there, she saw these kind of spirit women and heard some conversation from these spirit women about the site, about it being a kind of a helium place, was picking up information from these, what I would call spirit people.
	This is quite an interesting location because you have just next to this Aboriginal sacred site, you have a beach, which in Valerie Barrow's book, obviously my source material that inspired my work, that in there she describes that as being the crash site for a craft going back hundreds of thousands of years ago we can go build into.
	But essentially, so that whole area is very important to this story as it seems to connect Aboriginal sacred law to this other account of an alien visitation and a more recent story of Egyptians traveling to Australia to gain ancient knowledge from the people there and having left these marks on the walls, now all clustering at one place.
	So that in itself is quite fascinating.
	It's almost a continuum of that being a very special place that the Aboriginals think it's special, the Egyptians think it's special.
	And even today, many people go there and say they have strange experiences at the site.
	You know, that's quite a popular occurrence.
	So all of this makes our view of history, the view that we are taught in our schools, and let's say this politely, look presumptuous.
	Let's put it that way.
	Yes, and at the end of the day, history is a kind of, you know, he's a story, it's history.
	But there's always going to be a preferred narratives.
	You know, particularly when we go back to sort of prehistory, we know that so much evidence and information is lost or just, you know, very hard to sort out that what we end up is kind of a, I suppose, the best supported or favoured narratives.
	Now, that doesn't mean that they're even close to absolutely true.
	And I think that anyone Who particularly deals with prehistory understands that.
	So we have to be careful that we're taught these stories of how things happened and what Neanderthals did and all these kind of early stories.
	There's a lot of change has been going on in that area, even by the week.
	And that in terms of if you read a history book, unless it's come out like last week, it's out of date.
	There's always big changes going on in that area of thinking.
	So I think that we really have to question this overall narrative.
	We've been given this.
	So much has changed in the last few years that is not only changing the mundane view, but I've also seen some of the space scientists really moving towards a view that we should have expected extraterrestrial intelligence to have visited our planet in the past.
	And there's a number of quite prominent thinkers that kind of say the mystery is that they haven't found evidence of an extraterrestrial visitation rather than the mystery being us getting visited now.
	And that's kind of funny, you know, because a lot of people would think that scientists just poo-poo the entire idea.
	But actually, when you look at the models, they say if there is a number of advanced civilizations in the Milky Way, and if they've been around for, say, a billion years, they could easily have essentially colonized and visited every hospitable solar system in the whole of the galaxy.
	So they actually consider there's a mystery if we don't find evidence of visitation.
	And I think that's really a big sea change again.
	And that's just in the last couple of years that I've been seeing that starting to bubble up from.
	But it is a mystery, isn't it, that if they were involved with people in our deeply ancient past, I say people, whoever was here in our deeply, deeply ancient past, why would they move on and why would they choose, I mean, they would have their own reasons for this, of course they would, and some of them I can imagine.
	Why would they choose not to bother with us that much other than by apparently observing us from UFOs?
	Why would they choose to abandon us when they'd been so deeply involved with us a very, very long time ago?
	That's a big mystery, is it not?
	Well, it would be if it wasn't for the claims of cultures like the Native Americans who say that these beings do come and visit them and that they call them star family because they have so much interaction with them and that at their sacred gatherings that beings come and sit with them with their elders and that they see these spheres of light, which they say also are some form of intelligence, which appear and join them at the rituals.
	And I've seen videos of these spheres at Native American rituals.
	So, I mean, it seems to be a cultural difference.
	You know, in our kind of, I don't know what we call ourselves, the modern kind of Western technological civilizations, that we seem to have less of that.
	You know, of course, we still have people claiming they've had contact, but it's less accepted, maybe less common.
	But then we look at some of the other cultures and they'll tell us, oh, no, we have these beings come to us, including some of the Amazonic tribes and stuff that claim more contact.
	So it doesn't seem like they totally just went away, but rather it seems that they're somewhat selective in the kind of levels of contact that go on.
	So that's interesting that we do have cultures telling us, look, we still have star family and they visit us.
	Yeah.
	And they seem to be, if they are visiting us, they seem to be different races, different grades of beings.
	You get experiences like the one in the 1990s that I can never forget because I can remember seeing the news footage of the kids at a school in rural what is now Zimbabwe and the aerial school and this creature, this thing, this tall silver being appears at the edge of their playing area, having apparently landed from a craft and communicates telepathically with the kids.
	But that's just one of a whole gamut of manifestations.
	So, you know, I mean, look, controversially, I say, I don't think it's that controversial.
	I think there is something definitely still visiting us.
	But the level and scale of presence is perhaps, for us here, not quite what it was.
	You say psychic mediums and shamans regularly report receiving communications from beings identifying themselves as alien to this world.
	These contacts can be either extraterrestrial or interdimensional.
	There are huge overlaps among AAP evidence of ETs, psychic abilities that have not gone unnoticed by Deep State Scientific Research Project.
	A quote from the book.
	In other words, they're here, they've been here, and we know it.
	Yes.
	I mean, that really seems to be the case.
	I mean, there's particularly a famous ongoing situation now with a family, the Bledso's over in the US, who have had, you know, they've had people from the CIA, from NASA, and all sorts of other organizations that have come to their home, you know, and are now kind of connected with their experience.
	And they've had objects appearing, you know, in the sky, objects that have beings that have appeared in front of them on the ground, orbs that appear all the time.
	They send me, sometimes Chris Bledsoe sends me some videos and these very strange orbs that are appearing above him, hovering, you know, flying around.
	And there is interest there with the government and with TTSA, which was Tom DeLong's organization.
	They also have an interest in what's happening with the Bledsoe family.
	So these cases, and obviously there's some like that where they're very extreme, but these cases are still ongoing, you know, in different places where we have these particular, often particular people, you know, or families that seem to have an ongoing, very, you know, full-on kind of connection with this phenomenon.
	And then, of course, there's other people who never see a thing in their life, and then we can't say why that is.
	But again, yes, there's definitely an interest from various agencies and stuff as well in some of this.
	So it seems there's people in the know, and I know that's always been the claim, of course, in ufology and in ancient aliens studies, the idea that some people in our secret services, you know, and if not in the government, do know that there is a genuine phenomena and some of it seems to be extraterrestrial related, but whatever exactly it is, it's still very mind-bending and very important, whether it's interdimensional, psychical, I mean, whatever we want to put on that.
	The fact is, if there's something real to that, and it appears it is, we should really be having a serious conversation about that, not sort of sweeping it under the rug and saying, you know, come on, this is all nonsense.
	Because it's very obvious That there are people in those fields of the defense and intelligence that take great interest in this stuff.
	And even Donald Trump being asked about it only last week, week before last, by Fox News, and he seems to be interested in this and always talks cryptically about it.
	So, you know, I don't doubt that there is something going on.
	But we struggle as mere mortals and people who are not connected to government or anything else to understand what it might be.
	So it is a leap, but it's an interesting leap to say what you say in the book.
	There is some reason to suspect a mutagenic effect of alien energy sources with resultant modification of human DNA.
	In other words, I think they're messing with us or they have been.
	I mean, this is the crux of the book.
	Talk to me about that.
	Sure, there's a bit of both there because I think that we've had a past, very deliberate modification done to early hominins.
	And I go into that a bit, that that goes back to around 780,000 years ago.
	And in the fossil record, it was long understood that something very strange happens around 800,000 years ago in the record of skulls that we had.
	You can see that the human brain goes into a sudden, unexplained warp speed acceleration of size.
	And that was always a mystery.
	And people had speculated wildly on what might have caused that.
	Both academics and non-academics had speculated, but nobody knew because all you have is skulls.
	But of course, technology has moved forward.
	And now we have genetic studies.
	And we can take DNA from ancient bones, at least some of them, not quite as old as that, unfortunately.
	But we're able to map the genome.
	We can take DNA from humans today.
	We can see when changes occurred.
	We can do all of that.
	So what they've done, of course, is dug deep into the genome and they've found evidence of some spectacular changes actually that have occurred and that these mesh with that time, around that time, and certainly mesh with the changes that we see in the fossil record, we see in the DNA record, i.e.
	there are a number of very sort of startling shifts.
	We have gene that is described as appearing out of the non-coding DNA that just appears fully formed.
	And that's a brain gene, which gives us some of the key characteristics of the modern human brain.
	There's another one that is described as being what seems to be, they say, a fragment of a longer gene that almost looks like it's been cut out, Xeroxed, and then reinserted to the genome.
	And that's, as you know, is exactly what we're doing ourselves with CRISPR technologies now.
	And we're seeing these genes like that being described in the academic field.
	Well, these days, of course, they call it genetic editing, don't they?
	And that's precisely what they're seeing in these ancient genes.
	You know, we're seeing evidence of fragments of genes that have been cut out.
	They're using their language, saying, you know, xeroxed and put back in.
	So when you see scientists talking about in terms of it looks like it's xeroxed and put back in, that in itself is quite startling.
	And of course, yeah, genes that appear fully formed out of non-coding DNA, which was once called junk DNA.
	The idea that these genes just appeared suddenly.
	And on top of that, we have the mystery of chromosome 2.
	And chromosome 2 had been flagged up by such researchers as Lloyd Pye, who wrote fairly extensively on the topic of was there a genetic engineering event in prehistory.
	But unfortunately, before Lloyd's passing, we didn't have the technology there to really flesh out what happened with chromosome 2.
	But it turns out that if you look at the chemistry involved, and I'm not a chemist, so I'm looking, of course, at other people's work, it turns out that you can date this event to around about a little bit before 750,000 years ago.
	And one of the reasons for that, we know that it goes back to that time is that we have this fusion event for the two chromosomes that make chromosome 2, but soda Neanderthals, soda Denisovans.
	So these are shared.
	They've come into the genome before the split.
	Now, we know that split occurred around about 600 to 800,000 years ago, depending on which study you look at.
	The preferred date seems to be about 750,000 years ago-ish.
	Now, there's a British biologist who looked at this, the chemistry of the fusion and wanted to know, could it be way, way further back, you know, millions of years back or something?
	And so he deduces that, no, actually, it has to have been fairly close to 750,000 years ago.
	So we know, in other words, that this is happening right at the point just before the split of all these large-brained humans.
	So that in itself is kind of a glaring red flag to say, you know, something very strange is happening here.
	We have this fusion event of two chromosomes and there's an end-zeng fusion with additional information at their fusion site and other subtracted information.
	So there seems to be changes that are done at the fusion site.
	And this leads to part of the reason why we have these startling brain changes.
	But also other aspects of us, our reproductive system has changed, our immune system has changed, key characteristics.
	And then if you consider that rather than us being this minority of people with 46 chromosomes and then a bigger population with 48 chromosomes, which we expect if you have a random mutation in one person and then you've got a vast population of hominins, what we instead see, we see a total replacement.
	So there is today, everyone is a 46 chromosome human.
	So what's happened here?
	Now, the scientists suggest that this change must have been so beneficial and it must have happened in a number of people at once in one small area.
	So you have this kind of founder effect where you've got a group of people that, you know, they breed with each other.
	So that enforces this mutation.
	And that it's so beneficial that these people basically out-compete everyone else on the entire planet.
	So we have that in the academic understanding, which is meshes very well with this underlying claim that there has been an experiment in one small group, you know, in one place, to give them unbelievably beneficial changes.
	Now, that mesh of the academics are probably going to turn and say, well, that's what we think it is.
	But what they're saying matches perfectly with that scenario, which is in itself kind of fascinating, especially when you combine it with these other genes that they're finding now.
	And there's, just very quickly, I'll mention there's something called human-accelerated regions, and there's hundreds of these now being found.
	They're fairly Recent in terms of science.
	But they've, I'm going to give one example: that HAR1, which is the first one that was identified.
	Now, human cell HA regions are small sections of code in the non-coding or you know junk DNA, the non-coding areas, and they are considered to be what's called highly conserved or super-conserved, i.e.
	that they are so important, what it is they do, they're so important that they almost never change.
	You know, over hundreds of millions of years, they barely change because they must be doing something that would lead to us probably dying, right?
	You know, maybe your lungs don't form or something.
	Now, those areas have been identified in the past as being that if there was alien messages in our DNA, because you know, some academics have theorized on that, that they said that they would have to be in those areas for us to find them because it's so stable that we could go in and find any messages that might have been left there by some, you know, visiting intelligence.
	Funnily enough, we've now we've found these HRRs and in this first one that they identified, the academics involved looked at it and said, okay, let's compare between different species.
	And they looked at a chicken, a chimpanzee, and a human being.
	And they took this 118 DNA letter long stretch.
	And they found that between the chicken and the chimpanzee, there were two letters that changed in 300 million years of separate evolution.
	So that gives people an idea of just how stable that section of code is.
	You know, two mutations in 300 million years.
	Now, they took the same stretch and compared the chimpanzee and a human being who supposedly have only been diverged for maybe 7 million years.
	And what they found was 18 letters had changed.
	Now, that was not what they were expecting, of course, because there is no real explanation.
	And they sort of say this.
	They say there's no known explanation.
	Well, based on what we understand of other species, could this not just be, not that I, I mean, this is fascinating and I don't want to knock it down, but could this just not be evolution and maybe a part of evolution we don't understand?
	I say that because of very recent research that Sky News reported, and I talked about on my radio show, saying something that I'd no idea about.
	More people born these days without wisdom teeth.
	Babies being born have some of them an extra artery.
	Babies have shorter faces, smaller jaws, extra bones in their legs and feet, according to some research done in Australia.
	The Journal of Anatomy reported on that.
	So that's called evolution, and it's still happening.
	Well, as it stands, I mean, the people involved in that field, you know, they do have no explanation for it.
	So they kind of, you know, they admit that they say that they suggest some possibles, you know, in terms of what they think maybe it's to do with, but they admit that there is no explanation as it stands.
	So of course they're still looking, you know, and they hope to find a, you know, a natural evolutionary solution.
	And as you can imagine, they're not looking to try to find an alien solution to it because that's not really how, as you can imagine, it's not how academia works.
	But the mystery for them and for you and for me and for all of us is how a great leap can transpire, how that can happen, you know, and who or what might have made that happen.
	I mean, there are so many questions that fire off from that, Bruce, including if there is such a thing as we've always assumed there might be in the universe, a prime directive, why would some kind of alien species come here and mess with us?
	Why would they interfere with our development?
	Sure.
	And that is kind of tackled, again, in this initial information I used.
	And the way I look at this, and again, someone else could look at it differently, is from what Valerie described to me, I take the view that I think that this object that she had an encounter with is what I would call a Bracewell probe.
	Now, a Bracewell probe is a theoretical device that advanced extraterrestrials would use to explore the cosmos.
	You send out these small compact AI units, which can go out and explore planets for you.
	They can also, they can sit on planets or moons, you know, indefinitely, essentially acting as what's called an AI sentinel probe, and that they will await the emergence of intelligences, and then they can even, you know, they can monitor them, send back information to an alien homeworld, or they can even make contact.
	Now, this is a theoretical object, but one that is kind of expected in the space science field, that they're seen as being, you know, they should be out there.
	So they're sent out, the theory is, and they're almost like a jump starter for a car.
	They can kickstart whatever they're sent out to kickstart.
	Well, not necessarily to kickstart, but just to monitor, just to explore.
	You know, the same way that we're doing now, we're sending out robotic probes, right, to explore our solar system.
	Now, if we were an nth level intelligence that had gone far beyond the technology we have now, if we had compact, true artificial intelligence on board small probes, and these would be self-replicating and self-repairing probes, so that they're essentially immortal.
	And they can also replicate.
	They can land on a moon, they can utilize the material there to make more probes.
	These things could fill the cosmos.
	So this idea is that you would use that as your exploration program.
	You send these out, that they then can send back information to you.
	So it's just a, you could say, a much more advanced version of our current space exploration.
	So if there's a civilization that's ahead of us by a few thousand years, they can use these probes.
	Now, we expect these.
	Again, there's scientists looking for these on asteroids in our solar system.
	I suspect that what we have already is these bracewall probes, some of them here, and that the Aboriginal people have at least one of them, I think more than one, and that they have, in their own law, they describe this thing as being a living object, that it could communicate, that it was a being of some sort, even though we're talking about just a small compact, you know, what looks like a little block kind of thing, that they describe it as being alive, that this is a being that could communicate.
	And that's precisely the experience that Valerie had.
	And also she ended up connecting with an Aboriginal elder who knew what this thing was as well and was quite intimidated by being anywhere near it because they're quite scared of these because they understand these are really powerful and that when one comes into your sphere, there's probably some kind of big events underway and probably some kind of, you know, possibly trouble.
	But this thing gave an explanation for all of that story.
	It says, you know, why they came, you know, when it's roughly when this happened, why they were doing it, what was done.
	much information to work from so so what was the explanation then well you know we we come in peace for the good of all mankind not quite actually no they this planet at the time this and this is hundreds of thousands of years ago that there's been a let's say an exopolitical kind of situation.
	This planet has changed hands a couple of times, is actually under the dominance of one group of extraterrestrials with another group that originally ceded this world who are negotiating for its handover, and that there has been an agreement that it will be handed back to them.
	There is a mission sent here, sort of a peaceful colony mission that is supposed to take back control of the planet, and that then there is a betrayal event, and this craft is destroyed in orbit.
	A few survivors make it to the surface, and it's these survivors who make a plan B, where they decide to re-engineer a hominin species that's already here, which is actually being basically kind of used as free labor by the other group that's already here, a kind of slave race.
	These early hominins are being used by them, and they modify some of them and begin this process of making them more like themselves, an upgraded, more intelligent species.
	And so there's a very sort of complex exopolitics backstory to why this is happening.
	But this is a planet already with a presence on it of an intelligence, as well as these early hominins who would be something like Homo erectus.
	You know, we're going back to before Homo saplions.
	And what I came to, the dating for all of this is 780,000 years ago.
	And the dating for the craft debris that I've identified is 780,000.
	The dating for the genetic changes is 780,000.
	And the dating for also for another event they describe, which is a multi-directional asteroid bombardment, which is deliberate, which is carried out by one of these parties.
	That that is also, I found the evidence for that as well.
	That also dates to 780,000 years ago.
	So essentially, what I've done is looked for what they've said, and then I've looked in the academic studies to see, is any of this real?
	And I found that there was indeed a mysterious debris that rains down from the sky 780,000 years ago.
	There is indeed a bombardment of asteroids 780,000 years ago.
	And that we do have these changes in the genome and this, you know, the brain size 780,000 years ago.
	So it was, you know, they say, you know, look, if you're going to make extraordinary claims, you need extraordinary evidence.
	Well, it's a very extraordinary claim.
	But the thing is, you know, I found the extraordinary evidence.
	And you say it's evidence of an incursion, I'm quoting here, involving an already evolving hominin creature, which occurred, as you say, approximately 780,000 years ago.
	Yes.
	And if I'd found nothing, that would have been the end of the story, right?
	Because, you know, people can make claims, as I say, you know, but if you went out and you found, well, I can't find anything to do with this story, then, you know, it doesn't mean it's not true, but it would mean that you couldn't in any way really claim it was, right?
	You know, because people just say, this is just bongers, you know, your aliens and modification.
	And the important thing was that it does exist.
	And some of this, and I think you touched on earlier that, you know, one of the key things you hope to find is evidence that could not have been known before, that meshes with the story, you know, something new.
	Now, that was one of the elements that really grabbed me because we're told in this transition, you were told in this information that there is this multi-directional asteroid bombardment.
	And keep in mind, Valerie's book is published in 2003.
	So we have a time-stamped record of her claims.
	Now, she says that they pulverize the planet with these asteroids.
	Now, it turns out that in 2016, a German geological study has found this evidence of a multi-directional asteroid bombardment, and that happens to date to that same time.
	They've got it as 760 to 790.
	There's about six, seven objects that have bombarded our planet at the same time.
	They said they're so close in the dating that they assume that these actually have all happened at the same time.
	Now, this is an unprecedented and anomalous event because we get hit by a large asteroid every so many thousand years.
	We understand that.
	But what we don't have is asteroids coming in from all sides, pulverizing our planet at the same time.
	Now, that is just unprecedented.
	And this is not the breakup of a single large object, because they also found that the chemical composition of the impact sites is different.
	And this is precisely described in her information, but from 2003.
	And she could not have known this because they only discovered it in 2016.
	So when you have additional elements like that, those are particularly compelling because, well, it's a big claim to make a multi-directional asteroid bombardment.
	And there would have been no evidence out there anywhere to suggest anything like that had happened.
	Okay, so we have a war in the heavens.
	We have us being genetically modified for whatever purpose, maybe to be like a slave species or something like that.
	But how does that play into the story right now?
	I mean, what interest would they, in Inverted Commas, have in us now?
	Is it an ongoing interest?
	I mean, look, we're in trouble now, aren't we?
	We've got ecological challenges.
	We've got the scourge of coronavirus all over this planet causing all kinds of problems for who knows how long.
	Why don't they get involved in helping us out of that?
	Well, the way they explain it, again, you know, I can say what they say, and there's some, obviously there's elements of this information which I don't pretend to say that I can validate, you know, because some of it is just so strange.
	But they do tell us that they created, part of the reason why they create the Homo sapiens out of these pre-existing kind of, you know, I assume it's Homo rectus, which is being used as a slave race.
	You know, they kind of, you could say they, it's in some respects are freeing us, upgrading us, whatever it is.
	But they mention that part of this is because they have the ability to transfer their own consciousness upon death into these new Homo sapiens that they're creating, almost to act almost like a biological spacesuit for them to then continue their work on this planet.
	Now, that, of course, is going into an area that, you know, in Eastern metaphysics would be accepted, but in Western science would not be.
	You know, it's fairly well known in the East that, you know, we have the Tibetan Lamas who say that when they die, they choose their next incarnation.
	And there's this whole, you know, you may well know, there's this whole process where they identify, you know, former high masters in Tibet.
	You know, they go and they take objects to them and they show them them and they identify things from their previous life and all of that.
	But precisely the same thing going on here.
	They're saying that they can also do this, that they choose to go into these bodies that they're creating because they can't survive on the planet themselves.
	One of the reasons why they do this is that they can't deal with the radiation levels.
	The air is not right for them.
	There's all sorts of problems that they have not been able to fully genetically modify themselves to the planet before the destruction of their ship.
	And that's what they usually use these technologies for, is to self-modify so that they can inhabit new planets.
	And it actually makes a lot of sense because I think we're going to do that ourselves.
	We're talking about modifying ourselves to live on Mars, for example.
	So they're using these usually on themselves, but their ship has been lost.
	They don't have all the technologies left.
	They have enough to cobble together this one experiment to see if they can modify the already, you know, able to live here, kind of, you know, hominins, and they modify them to utilize to live in.
	So if you take their word for it, and I don't say anyone has to because I can't prove this, but they say they are incarnating into these bodies, in which case there's an ongoing interest because they are still here in some of the people that look like human beings.
	So we're effectively, the point of it is then that we are here to we're their legacy.
	We are their legacy and they also keep an interest, an ongoing interest.
	And I think that, you know, they go into a bit further into and say that they also believe that these bodies will be used by negative beings as a way, a pathway to become more self-realized and to become more compassionate, to give those beings that are in control of this dark sector of space the opportunity to move forward in the spiritual progression.
	So now all of that is very out there.
	And I totally appreciate people that think, well, you know, it's just very out there.
	But that's just what is told to Valerie.
	That's what they describe it.
	Now, whether that's true or not, they say that that is essentially they're using Earth almost as a rehab.
	That's the way I would sum it up, is that they seem to be talking about this planet as a kind of a cosmic rehab for souls, and that that's what the interest is here, that there's a mixture of both benevolent and malevolent entities in this sector of space, and that they seem to have the ability to incarnate into human bodies.
	You know, as we're born, in metaphysical terms, a soul binding with the physical fetus that leads, you know.
	I get the drift there.
	So that would explain some of the conflict that we have here because of those differences.
	Yes, absolutely.
	And with some of the particularly, you know, strange claims that a lot of researchers over the years have made about that there's influences in our government that are non-human influences, the higher levels, that again, you know, I think that matches very well.
	Because they also do say in this account, they say that some of these negative beings are still here, even though there is a deliberate bombardment, an attempt to remove most of them in underground bases.
	They sort of say they destroy these underground bases by using this meteorite bombardment.
	They say that some of these negative beings remain and that there's an ongoing presence.
	And they say it's ongoing until today.
	So they are hiding in plain sight then.
	They're among us.
	They are among us.
	And that's, again, that's another claim that's come up from, as you know, throughout ufology and throughout the paranormal, the claim that there's people that are not people.
	And there's people that seem to be possessed or controlled or that shape shift.
	There's all sorts of claims, of course, but so many, but it has to make people think, well, why is it that we have- Sorry.
	Why is it that we have people?
	That we have even the ancient cultures from Africa to the Americas that tell us that there are people and not people and that there are beings here that are controlling elements of our governmental systems.
	I mean, that is a common claim.
	Interesting.
	They say, as you said yourself at the beginning of this, an oft-used quote that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, but they also require extraordinary further research.
	And I'm not sure how after this, I think a lot of us believe that there's some kind of extraterrestrial connection down here.
	And we're coming to believe more and more that what we've been told is our history goes back way further and there's much more to it.
	So those things are almost a given.
	But I wonder how you can take this forward now.
	What do you do next?
	My focus from this now really is on the craft debris.
	I mean, to be honest, all the rest of it is fine and it's great.
	But the craft debris to me is the absolute linchpin because I have this physical material which is unexplainable by the current theory.
	Okay, well, let's just to underline it then.
	What do you have?
	What do you think it is?
	And how are you keeping it?
	Well, it's well known in science.
	It's called Australite Tectite.
	It's well known in science, but it's also well known as a 100-year-long mystery because everyone has failed to explain it.
	There's hundreds of papers on this material from NASA and from universities around the world.
	And the one thing they can agree on is that it's a mystery.
	Now, when you put into it the idea that it comes from a crystalline craft that was in orbit 780,000 years ago, and you look at all the logistics of that, then suddenly this material is completely explained.
	And it rained down from space 780,000 years ago in an explosion event.
	That's kind of accepted.
	You can look at this NASA papers that talk about that.
	But what they can't deduce, of course, is what is this?
	Why is it in orbit?
	Why does it explode?
	How the hell has this happened?
	So there's lots of lots of papers on it.
	Now, what I need to do is write up a paper that argues that this is a visiting artificial intelligent craft made of silica, which is exactly what they expect these to be, giant AI crafts.
	I mean, again, it meshes with what NASA and other people expect to happen.
	But as you know, the problem is often they'll talk about things like that, but they don't really believe it.
	You know, there's a big difference.
	So I don't think we'll ever see them writing a paper saying that this is debris from a craft.
	Yet, that's the only explanation that explains it away.
	We've had it tried to explain it as pieces of the moon that broke off, asteroid impacts, and all sorts of stuff.
	None of those work.
	And I've gone into the papers on this, and the agreement is essentially that those just leave big holes, big anomalies, as to no, that doesn't fit.
	So if I can put a fairly decent, strong scientific paper out there arguing that this is, I'm not necessarily saying it's Nathan Kraft, but just saying it's a totally anomalous visitor to our planet that explodes in space.
	What is this?
	You know, not in science, that's all you need, really, is a paper that's accepted saying we have a huge, huge mystery here.
	Let's look closer.
	And I need people that look closer who have the resources.
	I don't have the resources, Howard.
	It's important to pose the question, and that's what you're doing.
	Now, we found in recent weeks, or we think we found phosphine around Venus.
	We're going to Mars.
	Do you think that we are likely to, and I'm only asking you to speculate here because which of us knows, but we can all say what we think.
	Do you think we're likely to find surprises on Mars when we get there?
	Elon Musk is saying that we might get there in 2024.
	Well, I think that we already found life on Mars with the Viking landers, wasn't it, that they did the experiment and they found traces of life.
	And the guy that invented the test has to this day said, look, there was nothing wrong with my equipment and the test.
	So there's no reason why it wasn't accepted as being life, that there was the chemical signature in the soil for life.
	And on top of that, we have pictures from the rover, which mycologists and geologists have argued are images of fungi all over rocks.
	I mean, so I think what we're going to do is we're going to have common sense see through that these things we've already either observed or detected that suggest life are going to be confirmed.
	But I think anyone looking at the pictures of the lichen on rocks will see lichen on rocks.
	It looks very much that that's what there is.
	You know, there's very clear photos of what appears to be lichen growing out of the side of rocks and stuff.
	So that combined with the experiments with the soil saying there was life.
	You know, I'd be shocked if we get there and we don't find life considering those two factors that it looks like we've seen it and detected it.
	We can be totally agreed on that one because I think Mars has a few things to tell us and I think we'll start finding out about them quite soon.
	And that Elon Musk reference was that he was saying that one of his craft may get there by 2024.
	So we're in for interesting times.
	We're going back to the moon.
	We're going to Mars.
	We're discovering ever more viable looking exoplanets.
	So there's an awful lot.
	This is such an exciting time.
	And even if people may disagree with what you say, I think we can both agree on the fact that it is vital at this point in time that we ask the questions because there are fascinating truths that maybe not in our lifetimes we will uncover.
	Fascinating conversation.
	I'm glad you're asking these questions.
	Last question.
	If you had a chance to go now, and we can't really travel freely, and hopefully one of these days, quite soon, we'll be able to travel again like we did, who knows.
	If you could go to one place that has interest for you right now, where would that be?
	Well, I suppose it would have to be going to meet the elders of the Arente people at Uluru and talking to them about these Churingas to see if I could find out directly from them their direct understanding of these objects and whether I would be able to have some kind of access to it.
	That would be the ideal scenario, to be quite honest.
	But just knowing from the elders what's the full story from their view, because reading papers is one thing, talking to the people on the ground is another, as you know.
	So they obviously have a lot of secrets that they could share.
	Well, for me, Australia, I hope to be able to get back there before I turn up my toes because it is a land of calm and fascination as far as I'm concerned.
	It's a wonderful place.
	And, you know, you're very lucky to have had such a big involvement in your life with Australia, Bruce.
	What's next then?
	Another book in the pipeline?
	Are you going to write that book about that material or are you going to do something else?
	What's the immediate plan?
	Bearing in mind that we're not exactly locked down, but we're tied down at the moment.
	And you're in Stroud and I'm in London.
	Well, I mean, yeah, I mean, that's at the moment, that whole subject, the whole thing that's happening now has taken up my time.
	You know, and I'm involved with a group locally where we're trying to push back a bit on the government, you know, what's happening.
	I see it as very dystopian, you know, that we've lost a lot of our freedoms and our rights.
	I may end up writing on that, you know, but certainly I'm putting a lot of time into pushing back against what I see as a very dystopian aspect to this.
	So that is kind of distracting me from what would have been my work writing a paper or another book, because I can just see that our children may lose all their freedoms.
	And I'm extremely concerned with the direction that this is heading.
	You know, you probably saw the new law that came through where our intelligence services can torture people and kill.
	I mean, I just do not like the direction.
	So, yeah, I mean, that's a whole other debate for a whole other time.
	I'm distracted from my other work.
	Well, that's a whole other one-hour discussion, isn't it?
	And people are starting to have that discussion right now.
	The only thing that all of us can agree on, I think, is that we find ourselves in a very, very concerning time.
	And I keep saying this here until I go blue in the face.
	I'm sure you say it too.
	I hope to hell that we're out of it sooner rather than later.
	Bruce Fenton, thank you very much indeed.
	If people want to find out about you, I know you have a very good website.
	Yes, if people would like to have a look for me, they can find me at brucefenton.info or bruiserfenton.com, which I've recently created.
	Also, I have hybridhumans.net and ancientnews.net.
	So I have a few different portals where they can have a look at with different types of information.
	And they're always welcome to contact me if they find something interesting there and they're left with questions.
	They can always shoot me an email.
	Of course, I'd appreciate anyone if they do want to pick up a copy of exegenesis.
	It would be brilliant.
	Great.
	Let's hope they do.
	Bruce, thank you very much.
	You take care.
	Thank you.
	Take care, Howard.
	Bruce Fenton, as he said, you can either contact him if you've got thoughts on what he's had to say, or you can certainly send me an email by going to my website, theunexplained.tv.
	We are totally out of time.
	More great guests in the pipeline here at the home of the unexplained, so until next we meet, my name is Howard Hughes.
	This has been The Unexplained Online, and please, whatever you do, stay safe, stay calm, and please stay in touch.
	I'm going to go and have my breakfast now.
	Take care.

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