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Jan. 1, 2020 - The Unexplained - Howard Hughes

01:10:40

Edition 425 - Paul Sinclair

An exclusive New Year Special with Paul Sinclair - and an update on his excellent Truth Proof research about weird happenings in East Yorkshire...

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	Across the UK, across continental North America and around the world on the internet, by webcast and by podcast, my name is Howard Hughes and this is The Unexplained in 2020.
	I don't know about you and Happy New Year, by the way.
	I don't know about you, but the very thought when I was a kid of 2020 just felt kind of futuristic.
	To me, when I was a small boy, I thought that people would be living lives of leisure, cruising around in, you know, flying cars, traveling into space regularly.
	It just seemed to me that that was going to be the future.
	And part of that is sort of coming true around us, isn't it?
	As we look at technological advances and news, perhaps, that we're not alone in the cosmos.
	Maybe 2020 will be the year that we discover that's a fact.
	It appears to be getting closer and closer.
	So many things are at a confluence point now, aren't they?
	It's a very exciting time to be alive, don't you think?
	Thank you very much for all of your support through 2019.
	I wanted the first edition of The Unexplained in 2020 to be a good one and a show with somebody who I know that you like and somebody I respect tremendously for his work ethic, for his ability to do research and for his honesty and his ability to put a narrative across on shows like this.
	You know, I was the first person to do a show with Paul Sinclair.
	Now Paul Sinclair is known around the world for his truth-proof books.
	Very busy man.
	I believe he's got one or a couple of books on the go at the moment, so we'll talk with him about that.
	If you've never heard Paul Sinclair before, then you're in for a treat.
	If you've never seen one of these books before, then I recommend that you look one out.
	They're available on Amazon.
	I have written, you know, the back cover bit and some of the stuff inside the cover on these books, and it's a great privilege to have been involved in that process too.
	Truth Proof is the series of books.
	I think Truth Proof 4 is the one that is going to be coming out next.
	But Paul will clarify all of this.
	And if you haven't heard him before, this is to do with an area of what I can only call the deepest and most intense strangeness along the Yorkshire coast, from about Scarborough, Filey, downwards, down towards Grimsby, and then significantly inland.
	Keep that in mind.
	If you know a map of the UK, if you haven't got a map of the UK, take a look at one online.
	You'll see the area that we're talking about.
	Certainly the coastal area around which there have been deeply weird things reported for decades now.
	It's a lonely coast.
	And at this time of year, it's quite forbidding.
	The cliffs are pretty sheer.
	And it's not a place that, you know, people go without being prepared.
	And sometimes the people who go there have the strangest experiences.
	And sometimes those experiences are very similar.
	There are also animal mutilations reported from there and also now cryptozoological phenomena.
	And Paul Sinclair has been diligently documenting all of them.
	So, Paul Sinclair, the guest on this edition of The Unexplained, thank you very much for being part of my show.
	If it is possible for you to make a donation to this show, then please do.
	Go to my website, theunexplained.tv.
	Follow the link and you can send me a PayPal donation from there.
	You know, this show is also on the radio, but, you know, in radio, you never know what's going to happen next.
	But I can promise you that as long as financially and physically I'm able to do it, I will keep this brand and this show alive for as long as I can.
	But, you know, we'll see what happens in 2020.
	Thank you very much for being my support.
	And thank you to Adam Cornwell for his years now, 10 years, I think, more than 10 years of support for me and this show.
	That's my webmaster, Adam.
	Couldn't do this, couldn't even begin to do this without Adam.
	So Adam, if you're hearing this, and I know you will be, you know how grateful I am always going to be for every single thing that you've done.
	And I wish you a year of great success.
	You know what that means.
	Okay.
	Theunexplained.tv, that is the website, and Adam's the guy behind it.
	Please make contact with me when you get in touch.
	Tell me who you are, where you are, and how you use this show.
	All right, let's get now to Yorkshire and to Paul Sinclair, the man behind the truth proofbooks.
	I think we're in for a treat.
	Paul, thank you very much for returning to my show.
	Thank you very much, Howard.
	It's always a pleasure and I owe you a great gratitude for giving me the time, early doors, into writing the first book.
	Well, you know, I didn't know what to expect when we started doing this, but within minutes of talking to you, I knew that you were onto something and I'm massively proud of everything that you've achieved.
	Do you know something?
	Never a week goes by that I don't get half a dozen emails asking, even if you've just been on the show, when is Paul Sinclair coming back on?
	That's the effect that you're having on people.
	That's the truth.
	Well, thank you.
	I mean, I think basically it's just delivering the truth.
	We're all using the same words, Howard.
	I think it's probably how we put them together, how sincere we sound.
	And I just want to tell people's accounts and my own in the most real way that I can.
	And that's at the end of the day, that's all we can do.
	And luckily, you know, I'm absolutely overloaded, to be honest with you, with information, people sending me their accounts and wanting to talk.
	And I mean, before, years ago, it was something I only sort of dreamed about.
	I don't know if that doesn't sound sad because as a gatherer of these stories and information, that's what you crave.
	But it's gone other way now.
	And I'm finding I've got post-it notes and I've little references to people's questions and people's stories all over the place because I've just got to keep hold of them all.
	It's been a good year.
	Well, it has been a good year for you and I'm really pleased about that.
	And, you know, a number of people have emailed me about, well, among other places, Bempton and Bempton Cliffs, wanting to visit it, wanting to contact you and all that sort of stuff.
	And I always pass those on to you.
	Some of them have had their own stories to tell.
	And I know that during this year, one or two of those have been quite useful to you.
	Very useful.
	I mean, there's the guy that you spoke to me about back in, I think, I may have got the year wrong, but I think it's 2017, late 2017, December.
	And it was the Friends and he had the missing time.
	I think you read his email out actually on air.
	And that guy's been in touch several times since, and he's been a wonderful contact.
	They said There's numerous people that you've put me in touch with, Howard, that have really been good, credible witnesses.
	And the one thing that we both know about this, and that is what makes this fascinating, and that is why you capture the attention of people all over the world who contact me and who contact you now.
	The fact of the matter is that the people who get in touch are not people that you would say, oh, well, they're a bit peculiar.
	You know, they make stuff up.
	These are sincere, apparently, on the face of it, totally honest, ordinary people who simply want to get their story out there.
	And maybe something has happened to them that they can't explain and they have to live with it.
	And they don't want to just have to live with it.
	They want an idea of what went on.
	That's exactly it, you know, and that's the bit that we touched on earlier when we first started.
	It's that I think I'm delivering their stories in a way that they want.
	I'm trying not to sensationalize them, although in a lot of cases, it's hard not to because the things that people are seeing and experiencing are absolutely incredible.
	But just being as honest as we can and giving people your word that you're not going to divulge their name or identities if that's what they require.
	But I mean, some of the things that we'll touch on today, I've got the names of the people and they're quite happy for me to talk about it.
	But you know, a guy came today to buy Truth Proof 3.
	He rang the doorbell while I was sorting this out.
	Well, you get personal callers now.
	Oh, yeah, quite often, to be honest.
	But this happened to be the rock angler who claimed he'd seen the spaceship land on the hillside behind the cliffs in 1998.
	And I think we've spoke about this before.
	But it's really sort of pricked this guy's interest.
	And so much so, I mean, he was keen to say I'd fish these cliff tops 50 years.
	And he's going to meet up with me and Christopher Turner.
	We made the documentary Bringing Down the Light later in the year, in the new year, in 2020, because Chris is coming again.
	We've got some more accounts and more bits of filming to do.
	And we're going to a place called Cornelian Bay in Scarborough.
	And this guy, he's going to go with us, along with another guy called Andy Barnby, who were both fishing there in the 1990s during a snowstorm.
	And whilst they're fishing, night fishing of all things, it shows how dedicated these guys are.
	They're a part, they're probably, I don't know, 50 yards apart.
	And he says, I'm tucked in.
	He says, I've got my coat pulled over my head.
	There's waves of snow coming in the wind.
	He said, Andy's flashing his torch at me.
	He says, and I'm looking and thinking, I'm not getting up, not until this has calmed down.
	He says, but he continued and he kept flashing his torch and pointing it up.
	He said, and when I looked up, he said, above my head, and he said, we're not talking, I mean, we spoke today about this.
	We're not talking hundreds of feet, we're talking less than 100 foot.
	He says, there's this thing with all round, all circular lights underneath it.
	He's looking at it, big globes of light.
	I think he said there were about six of them, all slowly turning.
	He said, and you could see the lights and see the object in the waves of snow that will come in washing in and sweeping in.
	Now, I've got the story from Andy Barnby, and I've got it from his mate.
	I don't mind using his name if I could remember it.
	Everybody calls him Siggy.
	That'll do it for me.
	But what he reported is the classic wedding cake, layer cake style UFO.
	That's correct.
	I mean, and what happened then, he said, he's sort of watching it one moment, he says, and then literally it's just and it's gone.
	It's gone straight up and disappeared.
	But what's wonderful is we've got, I don't know, I don't think it's me in particular.
	I just think it's happening more and more.
	We've got two witnesses.
	This guy's nearly 70 and he's in his 50s and they're going to stand in front of a camera and explain what they've seen.
	I can sit in front of this interface and relay the stories, but at the end of the day, the listener, hopefully they're going to trust me, but that's all they can do, trust Paul's word or whoever's telling the story.
	So I think it's wonderful that we're now getting people who are willing to step forward and say they've seen these things.
	You know, the book, he came to buy the book and he said like some of the rock anglers just don't want to talk about it.
	And he won about Flamborough and Bempton people in particular.
	He says they just keep the selves to themselves.
	He didn't say anything derogatory.
	But it's like we said, if 5% of those stories in the books belong to me, 95% of them, and there's a lot of stories, lots of different and diverse accounts, are from totally different people, all unconnected to each other.
	And surely that tells enough of us that there's a massive amount of truth and reality to this subject that we're all involved in.
	And the other question that anybody who is skeptical about this, and you have to be, you know, if you're a professional, you have to be skeptical when you look into these stories.
	That goes for both of us.
	But the question that overarches all of it is, why would somebody, number one, wait to tell you for all of those years and then pick you to tell?
	Why would they want to come out?
	Why would they put themselves on the line if they were making something up?
	And there would be not as many, I suspect, if they were people making stuff up.
	I totally agree.
	And I think it's almost like, I know we've just been talking about the snow and this sighting, but it's almost like a snowball.
	It's gathering pace.
	And it's almost as though the more people who've had an experience can hear other people relating their experiences and their sightings, the braver these other individuals are at coming forward and beginning to talk about it.
	And only that way will start to put the pieces together.
	I've got to say, Howard, I really don't think we're ever going to solve it.
	I mean, and that's not me being negative.
	It's just that as fast as you seem to get an angle on what's happening, something else happens.
	It's almost like the phenomenon, the phenomena is playing with us.
	It's difficult.
	I mean, just for argument's sake, some guys came up the other week.
	We've got a guy called Rick Craig and PJ.
	I don't even know PJ's first name, guys.
	I'm sorry about that.
	But they First came in 2017 because they've an avid interest in the UFO subjects, and I think they've been listening to your shows, Howard and me, talking.
	Good for them.
	And they're traveling a good way, five-hour journey.
	It's all when the guys' days converge and when they find they have the time to spend a night on the cliff tops.
	So it's a pretty dedicated guys.
	They're all in the 50s.
	I'm just sort of saying in ages and just painting a picture for people.
	And the first time they came, they experienced nothing.
	And then, and I've got the date, and I've touched on this story before, I think, with you, but I'm going to do it again because they've had a recent sighting.
	Then on Saturday the 17th, running into Sunday the 18th, 2018, Rick and PJ arrived at Bempton.
	Now, me and Bob Brown, we went up and spent a bit of time with them, probably three or four hours, and then we call it a night.
	And they stayed on those cliff tops till approximately two o'clock in the morning.
	And their car was in the car park at the RSPB.
	And they decided to go back, have a, I don't know, warm drink and just sit down for a bit because honestly, it's pretty arduous up there.
	And it's November.
	You've got to be quite hardy to the conditions.
	Well, just for people who don't know it, I mean, number one, you're fairly high up on the cliff there.
	Number two, what you've got sweeping in at you is the air off the North Sea.
	And that's coming out of Sai, well, it's coming out of Russia and the Baltic, places like that.
	Yep, two to four hundred foot cliffs, depending on where you are, and as you say, the severity of the North Sea.
	So they go up to the car park, and I think they said it's approximately two in the morning.
	And at one point, Rick got out of the car and he went to the edge of the field.
	He wanted a wee and he's observing something over the sea.
	He can see the boats out on the horizon.
	He's clean, clear, sorry, guys.
	He's keen to stress that it's a clear night.
	They'd actually been watching meteors and things, so you can see the conditions and they could see the Milky Way.
	He said, about half a mile to a mile out, looking from where they were stood, he can see these lights over the sea, but above the sea, there's a clear reflection of this object on the surface of the sea.
	So he shouts PJ, he says, quick, you've got to look at this.
	You really need to look at this.
	There's something there.
	There's something out there.
	They put binoculars on this thing, and it was too bright to look at in the binoculars.
	It literally was the severity of the brightness of the light.
	It was light.
	It was a large light, and he said it looked like a carousel, like a fairground ride, and it was spinning anti-clockwise.
	Now, I spoke to both guys.
	We've actually filmed them for the new documentary, and we've got both their accounts, which I wouldn't say are identical, but they were both stood there.
	PJ saw the light as looking like, the ends of the light as looking like fingers that were going round in an anti-clockwise motion, like an amber-coloured flame coming off them.
	Totally silent.
	Rick thought they were more yellow, you know, like a more lemon yellow, but that's only a discrepancy.
	One of them could just see colours slightly different.
	There was a blue halo on top of this light, which they can't explain, just a blue, either another light or it were giving off a blue halo.
	So what's interesting about the sighting, Howard, is that at one point Rick decided he was going to try and take some pictures, but he couldn't, but he'd already pressed record on his phone.
	And they thought that they were watching this object over the sea for 35 minutes, 30 to 35 minutes.
	And that's what they initially told me when they contacted me later that they'd seen this strange thing over the sea.
	But when he actually started looking at his phone, two and a half hours had passed.
	And they can't account for it.
	I wish we could actually get, you could hear them talking as we filmed them the other day.
	So look, two and a half hours is a big chunk of time.
	Massive.
	That is probably too much for you to be.
	I mean, look, even when I'm going through Facebook videos of people with their cats and dogs, I don't lose two and a half hours and I'm aware of the time that's gone.
	They were not aware of, you're saying two and a half hours that went missing when they tried to video.
	They didn't know they were videoing, but when they tried to video this thing.
	They pressed record by mistake after trying to take photographs.
	So do they have video?
	No, they don't because they didn't know it were, he pressed it by mistake after trying to take photographs.
	So they've got 35 minutes, or they thought they were there 35 minutes.
	He didn't realize they were recording.
	When they've gone back to the recording, there's two and a half hours that's been recording while they've been immersed in this sighting.
	He doesn't know what's happened.
	They're both confused about it.
	And is that two and a half hours, just to get this clear, confirmed by their watches or clocks?
	No, he's not said that.
	He said confirmed by the recording.
	I don't know how that can happen, to tell you the truth.
	I don't, to be honest with you.
	And this goes hand in hand, don't forget, of course, with the time anomalies that you yourself have discovered at Bempton.
	As in, yeah, the watches that we buried, I think it were 400 paces apart.
	And I can't remember the exact year.
	I think it was 2017, Howard, on the cliff tops.
	I know we've discussed this.
	They were put in sealed plastic bags, then into sealed plastic containers.
	Analog quartz watches, all set at the right time.
	And we viewed one box of watches containing two watches and they'd lost time.
	But they were still both telling the same time.
	I haven't got that information in front of me as the exact times that it was saying, Howard, but yeah, they were a time anomaly.
	And we have rock anglers who've been there, looked at their watch and thought, right, we'll have another hours fishing.
	It's nine o'clock.
	And when the perceived hour's gone past and he's looked at his watch again, it's still nine o'clock.
	You know, we're not saying that it's impossible for a watch to stop, But there does appear to be something very strange happening there.
	There is, I mean, you could say that there is a pattern emerging.
	Now, these guys, with their two and a half hours of video not recorded, did they try anything to verify that there was a two and a half hour discrepancy there?
	You know, even though they didn't look at clocks and watches and stuff, maybe not as aware of the time passing, you know, how much time do they think had elapsed?
	I think it's what I'm asking.
	It's about 30 to 35 minutes.
	And hopefully, I'll get you the footage sent when we've done the video because the DVD, because we've recorded both guys, they thought they were watching it for no more than 30 to 35 minutes.
	They didn't realize that they were stood there.
	They don't know what's happened to that time.
	They don't realize, didn't realize they were there for two and a half hours.
	And what do they think that they saw?
	What did they feel there?
	Actually, unlike some of the other reports, they didn't actually say that everything felt strange.
	They were just observing this object clearly off the sea, silent, half a mile to a mile out, and it was spinning anti-clockwise and it resembled a carousel with a large blue halo type light on the top and fingers or sticks, depending on which guy told me, PJ or Rick, coming off it that were actually moving.
	And it looked, according to PJ, it looked like an amber flame coming off this thing as it was spinning.
	So quite an interesting sighting.
	I mean, it doesn't resemble anything I've been told before.
	But the reason I've touched on that sighting is because on the night of the 10th of the 12th, which is just not long ago, is it?
	Like, what date are we today?
	We have to say to our listener here that I'm actually recording this to put out as a podcast as my first one of 2020.
	But so 10 days will have gone by, but I get what you're saying.
	Yes, right.
	So they had a recent sighting.
	And this time Rick, PJ, and Craig arrived at the cliff tops.
	And me and Bob went down to spend a bit of time with them.
	It was a horrendous night.
	A bit of rain.
	It actually cleared up a little bit towards the end of the night, but we decided to call it a day about nine o'clock.
	We only went there, to be honest, Howard, just out of decency to the guys because they'd made a great effort to go up there.
	Do you see?
	And I knew the signs.
	Bob stood up at about nine o'clock and I said, Are you ready?
	Because there's a seat down there.
	He said, Yeah, let's call it a night.
	And we told the guys we were going.
	And they said, Well, they were going to go to Caton Bay and observe the area around Caton and come back to Bempton after midnight.
	And that was their idea.
	So they were going to walk up to the car park with us and go.
	We were walking along the cliff tops, quite uneventful, nothing happening.
	I'm not sure if you're familiar with this area, but then we get onto the actual man-made path that leads up to the RSPB centre.
	And I would say we were about halfway up the path, so probably 150 yards off the centre.
	And to the right of the centre, there's a small strip of trees.
	They're no more than 20 to 30 feet high, and the strip itself can't be more than 20 feet wide.
	There's five of us walking up that path, and suddenly, from the ground, Howard, a huge bolt of electric red light came up from within the trees and just lit that area up.
	It looked like a kite.
	It's hard to explain.
	It was a strange thing to see.
	Now, we all saw it except PJ.
	He's the one that should have seen it, if we're being truthful, because he's six foot three.
	He should have had it head and shoulders above all of us.
	But he must have been looking other way because Bob saw it, Rick saw it, and Craig saw it.
	And this is not a bolt of lightning.
	It came from the ground, Howard.
	So it's not going to go from down to up.
	That would come from the ground.
	It was blood red.
	It was absolutely deep red.
	And I thought I could see like a black bar inside it.
	Bob said he couldn't.
	It were literally a second.
	It exploded into life.
	And then it probably took one to two seconds to slowly fade.
	A bit like lightning does in clouds when you see the flash of light and then it just sort of simmers down.
	But it came from the ground.
	It was angular in shape, like a kite, and almost drips of red light below it.
	We went straight to the spot.
	But Bob and PJ went into the car park just to check there's no cars in there or anyone else, but we were the only people there.
	And myself and Craig went, I went one side of this hedgerow and he went the other.
	And we walked the full length of it just to where you would enter the old REF camp.
	And then we went back again, keen to, we'd got powerful torches.
	I was looking for any burn marks or anything.
	There was absolutely nothing.
	Four witnesses to that, which is, as I've just said, a recent sighting.
	And, you know, usually if it's something electrical, if it is something that resembles static electricity or lightning or anything like that, there will be a noise, especially if it's in cold air, where the burst of whatever energy it is will kind of disturb the air.
	Did you hear anything with it?
	Absolutely no sound at all.
	Nothing.
	Absolutely silent.
	And it took us all by surprise because it weren't far away.
	I mean, we couldn't be more than 200 yards off this when it happened.
	All four of us agreed it came up from the ground.
	You could see it originate.
	It just literally burst.
	And it was angular.
	That was a strange thing.
	If people can picture sort of the semi-diamond shape of a kite, that's what it were like.
	And there are no electric lights along there.
	Within the trees.
	Well, we need to stress that there's no lights anywhere on these.
	And we have to tell people, maybe, who haven't heard you before, this is a very remote, a very lonely, very beautiful stretch of the coastline, but It's not a place that is full of houses or you know, habitation, anything like that in the winter, especially on a dark night.
	There's nothing there, it's absolutely desolate.
	There's nobody there, it's devoid of everything.
	There's one need, sorry, one green neon light from the bird sanctuary, which I'm assuming is an alarm light.
	But I mean, that would be 500 yards away to the left of where this light originated.
	There's nothing where this light was.
	No light sources.
	This is as far away from a town or a village situation as you could get.
	We're really in a remote area.
	But what's interesting, when we note the angular shape, I don't know if we touched on what I called the Speeton figure of eight when we spoke any time, did I, Howard?
	I can't remember.
	In one of our conversations, we've talked about what goes on at Speeton, but tell me.
	Well, what I've called the Speeton figure of eight, because this subject and this location of Bempton has got the attention of quite a lot of people, and in particular, some police officers.
	And there's been a police officer coming up there.
	We've spent a few nights, full nights up there, and he's really interested this guy.
	And the reason being, he's heard various radio podcasts, probably The Unexplained and a few others.
	And it sort of pricked his interest.
	So he decided to go up and he didn't contact me at first.
	I'm not going to say where he's from, but he's travelled a fair old whack to get down to me.
	But he had two visits with nothing in particular happening.
	And when he did have the thing that happened, that's when he contacted me.
	And his first email was, it is with some intrepidation that I am contacting you in view of his job.
	And he wanted to keep his identity low-key.
	And this guy, I've got the date, and it was August the 7th that he found himself on the cliff tops at Speaton.
	Well, he entered the RSPB car park at 10.45 p.m.
	And I can't tell you how brave this guy is.
	I mean, because he had a weak torch with him this particular night.
	I mean, I'd have had a great big, powerful torch that could have lit Ridlington up.
	Well, given the many stories that maybe originate from or certainly originate around that car park and that area, it's not something I'd do by myself at 10.45 at night.
	Well, no, this is true.
	So he parked up, he went down to the cliffs.
	I think he said he hovered around at a viewing platform for 10 or 20 minutes and then set off past the old RAF base, heading north in the direction of Speaton.
	He wanted to go to the highest point, the trigg point, where the cliffs are probably 420 feet deep at Speaton.
	And that's where he headed.
	Now, it took him a few minutes to walk down, and I don't know how long, it probably 25, 30 minutes, if not longer, to walk up to Speeton.
	He reached the place where the path splits at Bookton, which I'm stressing that spot because it'll come into story in a moment.
	And then he carried on up the cliff path and he reached this concrete wedge-shaped piece of concrete with a little brass plaque on it.
	And he said, I was sort of squatting down with my weak torch, looking at the inscription on it and what it said.
	He said, I could see a helicopter in the distance towards Scarborough, and I could see boats out at sea on the horizon.
	So nothing new there.
	And as we've stressed before, you are looking about 20 to 22 miles to the horizon.
	And whose helicopter would that have been?
	Is it RAF search and rescue or what?
	It's hard to say.
	I mean, it could have been the RAF search and rescue, but he's still looking 20 miles in the distance.
	And he said he could see a helicopter.
	But it's not unusual, Howard.
	You know, we see them quite often.
	And another telling point, just to jump back to Rick and PJ's sighting, because they claim that what they saw was only half a mile to a mile out.
	Literally, when these, when helicopter are 10 miles out, you can hear the thump, you can hear the sound of those helicopters.
	But as I say, this was towards Scarborough.
	He recalled seeing an helicopter.
	He said then he turned and looked down towards the old REF base, which would have not been visible at this point because it had been probably three-quarters of a mile away and obscured by a, it had been a bit lower than the rest of the cliffs.
	And about 150 meters away, suddenly two large red spheres appeared on the path.
	He's keen to stress that they looked like they were on the path, probably a few feet above, and they looked like a figure of eight.
	Now, that's the best he could describe them.
	He said they looked as though they might have had some kind of dark band around them, around the middle, that sort of squeezed them in a bit.
	Excuse me.
	And that's why he stressed that it looked like a figure of eight.
	When you say figure of eight, is that because of their motion relative to each other?
	No, it looked like a number eight.
	That's what he was looking at.
	Okay.
	So if you picture a number eight, stand it up in front of you, 150 meters away.
	It's two spheres.
	Two spheres with a band or a darker band around the middle.
	He said, he reached for his torch.
	He said, by the time he'd pressed the switch, they'd gone out.
	And he said, remarkably, they didn't illuminate anything, although they looked very intense.
	So these things just vanished.
	And moments later, they're replaced by three white, brilliant, brilliant white LED type lights that are spaced evenly apart, but the middle one is slightly higher.
	He got his torch on them this time, and they were about the range of his torch, but it wasn't illuminating anything.
	And just give me an idea again of what height all of this is happening at, roughly?
	Well, he's easier to height on the cliffs of about 400 feet, but these things are on the cliff path, or he perceives on the cliff path, he says they're not to the left out at sea or to the right in the fields.
	These are on the path that he's just trod and a few feet above the path.
	I mean, I went back there.
	We've been back there several times.
	It's not messed this guy's head up.
	he's very level-headed, but it's sufficiently charged him that he's after finding a logical explanation.
	This man's not, his head is not swimming with thoughts of aliens and UFOs and paranormal interdimensional worlds.
	He wants an explanation for this.
	But because of what he does for a living, wouldn't he be able to find out if there were, for example, anything military happening around there at that time?
	Honestly, he's checked everything.
	And he says there were only 150, about 150 yards in front of them.
	So when the white LEDs lit up, he managed to get his torch beam onto them, but they weren't illuminating anything.
	But he thinks they remained for eight to ten seconds.
	He says they were right at the edge, the very edge of the torch beam.
	But once again, the typical characteristic of these lights or the lights that we're seeing out there, for something that bright, they're not illuminating anything.
	And he's keen to say that.
	He says, well, instantly, he says, after eight to ten seconds, these things switched off.
	He said he immediately began running in the direction of the lights, not out of fear.
	He was expecting to find a reason for these lights, a person or people.
	And he said it took him 40 to 60 seconds to get there.
	We'd look in 150 meters and we're looking at a cliff top path in the dark with no fence on it at speed and a 400-foot drop.
	So you can appreciate that he's not going to be going along like you saying Bolt.
	But when he reached the spot, there was nothing.
	He said, I carried on then all the way.
	He said, because I was still certain I was going to find somebody or catch up with something.
	You know, you said, you're just looking for an explanation.
	This can't be real.
	I totally get that.
	I mean, if I was in that situation, if I put myself in that situation or that situation found me, I've got to say, I would do what, even, I wouldn't even think about the risk at that point.
	I would want to know what we're dealing with here.
	And I can understand what he did.
	And so are you saying he found nothing?
	He found nothing.
	It was approximately 12.30 when he saw him.
	He got back via running to the RSPB car park sometime just before one o'clock.
	He said, he said at a steady plod.
	He says, you know, he's 46 years old, this guy.
	He said, you know, he's not overweight or anything, but obviously he's not going to be running like a 20-year-old, is he?
	And that's charged him.
	That's enthused him, you know, sufficiently now that me and him, we've stayed up then all night hoping to catch some glimpse of this phenomenon, but we've actually caught nothing.
	On one occasion, the last occasion he came, he picked me up at my home and we parked up at the car park, walking down the path above the RSPB base, above the RAF base, should I say, very close to where this red kite-shaped object lit up from the ground.
	We're walking down and above the old buildings, to me it resembled a rectangle.
	A rectangle of light just lit up in the sky instantly and switched off.
	We both stopped.
	He said quite a few expletives and I did.
	And he actually said, do it again, please.
	And we spent the rest of the night till about 4.30 in the morning up around Speaton and that area and there was nothing else.
	I've never experienced anything up there with him other than that.
	He's seen this, what we've called the figure of eight, and that's sort of enthused him enough to keep going.
	So, you know, that's his take on it.
	I mean, he hasn't got an explanation for it.
	He does think it's strange that as soon as he reached to put the torch beam on the red one, it went out.
	Now, that could be pure coincidence, and I expect our, you know, a sceptic would say pure coincidence.
	But I doubt they would want to argue the odds against such a coincidence, you know.
	Because, well, in reality, it's more plausible to conclude that this red sphere had some kind of intelligence to me.
	And either the guy's telling us a fib or is telling the truth.
	And I actually believe him.
	I don't believe everybody, Howard, that talks to me.
	I'm never rude to people.
	You know, sometimes somebody will tell me something and, you know, I just, I'm very polite to him and I won't go with the story.
	But this guy, I believe he's seen what he's talking about.
	They're quite incredible.
	Do you think then, Paul, that the like phenomena that have been reported in that area for years, and you've got stories in your books that go back a very long time, and there are things happening this year, you know, this last month, it's happening right now.
	Do you think all of this stuff is connected?
	I mean, by the sounds of it, maybe there is a connection, but what kind of connection could that be?
	Well, I've called it in the book I'm writing now a multi-phenomena area because everything seems to be connected.
	I mean, we don't, at the risk of repeating myself, because I've said this before, but you know, we haven't a clue what's connecting A to B or B to C. But it's incredible that these areas and these areas that exist all over the world are producing similar type of phenomena.
	You know, the big cat sightings, the missing people.
	And I'm not in no way going to say that I've got the answer to what's happening when people vanish up at Pempton or vanish in any place anywhere in the world.
	You've got a lot of stories of missing people.
	They're chilling and fascinating in the same breath.
	Are those things still happening?
	Are people still going missing up there?
	No.
	An interesting one was that an unfortunate man was found in Selwick's Bay on November the 7th, 2017.
	I know an inquest has been held, but there's been nothing in the paper to suggest what the cause of death was.
	And it could have just been an unfortunate accident.
	What I find interesting is that in October of this year, Selwyk's Bay, another man was found.
	Obviously, once again, it could be an unfortunate accident that first they identified this man as a woman and then later identified him as a, or obviously as a male.
	I have found out that this guy was a retired private investigator, but I don't think we should read anything into that.
	I'm just throwing it out there.
	What we can say is a lot of things happen there, and this is an area, like we say, that is lonely.
	Not only that, if you don't know where you're going, it could be lethal.
	If you go walking around that area, as you say, there's a big dropdown there, and there's no one to come and help you.
	There's no one around to come and help.
	I mean, but you know, it's just so it's just so diverse to things that are seen.
	You know, the cryptid type sightings, the light forms, the unfortunate disappearances of people, you know, because not everyone's found.
	What about the cryptids?
	I have a lot of people saying that they're interested in the cryptozoological stuff that has appeared there.
	Has that been quiet recently or has there been more of that?
	Well, there was a sighting on February the 7th by two ex-paratroopers.
	I'm not sure if we touched on that one last time we saw it.
	I think we did.
	Yeah, but the only slight update there, and I'm probably in, if this guy will probably listen to this show and he's talking to me every day, because it's, once again, he's seen something off the scale of anything he's ever seen before.
	And do we believe him or is he just making it up?
	I think he's telling the truth.
	The reason, I'm getting confirmation or things that are strengthening the argument or the argument for him to be telling the truth.
	I've been contacted by a farmer who I trust.
	Well, implicitly, his word is good for me.
	But he's got some second-hand information, as he's been told by a farmer who lives very close.
	This guy reckons he's seen the same thing.
	He's in the process of trying to get him to speak to me.
	I know who he is.
	I know friends of his who are personal friends of mine.
	But I'm not in a position to speak to them and say, can you ask him if he'll speak to me?
	I'm sorry, it's all a bit garbled here, Howard, but the point is, because otherwise it'd be betraying a confidence.
	I know he's only shared this sighting with the farmer in question, who has then broke the confidence and told me, but he's going to get him to speak to me.
	So there's another one.
	And interestingly enough, it's very close to where the paras claim that they saw that.
	And just to remind my listener and to remind me too, is this like a puma or what?
	Well, puma, I've never heard anything like it.
	Wasn't this something that was standing on two legs?
	On two legs.
	The guys, it was February the 7th and they were wild camping.
	They were walking on the cliff tops at approximately three in the morning.
	They'd got two dogs with them.
	They'd intended to go there to watch the Peregrines in first flight early in the morning.
	But they went out...
	The air felt prickly and electric.
	And he said to me, if it ever feels like that, Paul, just come away.
	Just get away.
	He said, because it just wasn't right.
	He said, and at one point during their walk along the cliff tops, they lit up a pair of yellow eyes, as big as golf balls were his words.
	He said, and this thing just looked away and looked back at us.
	He said, it weren't characteristic of normal animal behavior, as in normally you get something that's caught in the beam or something that sees the light and does a runner.
	So they carried on walking.
	They got to a viewing platform, spent a few minutes looking out to see, and then they came to two large posts, gate posts, with no gate on.
	Put the torch to the right of them, and he said, there it was, hunkered down.
	And he said, at first, I thought it was a bleep hyena.
	He said, and we couldn't believe what we were looking at.
	He said, it's got like a hump on its back and its hair was bristling.
	And then it stood up.
	It stood up on two legs.
	Now, Howard, last time we spoke about this, I said I were going to send you the recording and I didn't.
	I think I should because you might want to include it.
	You know, it might be something that would be interesting for the listeners because it's easy for me to relate.
	Well, it's the standing erect on two legs, I think, that is the interesting part.
	And you say there's been a second sighting of February again.
	Very close to where these guys have seen it.
	And hopefully next time we speak, I'm going to be able to give you some more information on it.
	It was sufficient to get this guy to get in his vehicle and drive off.
	And I believe he was working on some machinery in the night.
	And I'm not on about the dead of night, but when it's dark.
	And yeah, so there's been a second sighting of this.
	And do you think, does your gut tell you that these tales, not tales, the reality of the animal mutilations that have been happening in that area for a long time, do you think there may be some connection with this cryptid and those cases?
	There, I contradict myself because, no, I don't, because he described this thing as having hands and claws.
	The mutilations, the animals that I've been finding, 2017, 2018, and it's still ongoing.
	Most of the livestock's been removed from what I've called the affected area, but rodeer are still being found.
	There were rodeer found recently with its ears removed.
	If anybody goes onto the truth-proof page of Facebook, I think I've put one of the images on.
	Very, very disturbing.
	I've seen that.
	And we're saying that, you know, in common with cases in other parts of the world, in America, for example, but other countries as well, these mutilations are surgical in the way that they're done.
	They're bloodless and surgical.
	Yeah, that's correct.
	I mean, when you imagine, I'm sorry to sound macabre listeners, but if we were going to remove an eye, you would expect some kind of trauma around the eye and some blood loss.
	Likewise, the ears, there's lots of blood vessels.
	These ears are sliced off.
	It's a clean cut and there's no blood.
	And we all know that a sheep is a sort of dirty white colour when it's wandering around the fields, but absolutely nothing, which is strange.
	And that's the reason when I got involved With the farmer and asked him if I could look into it.
	We weren't getting the true picture of the killings at first because sometimes in the long grass and within having so much livestock to oversee, they weren't getting found perhaps for five or six days.
	But you say this phenomenon is still, and we know that earlier this year, I'm talking about 2019, I know this will be heard in the very beginning of 2020, but you're saying that this phenomenon has not abated.
	It's not.
	It definitely hasn't.
	I think it appears to have slowed down because the livestock have been removed.
	But in view of wildlife, as in deer and badger, it's still happening.
	So whatever's present in the area, well, it hasn't left.
	It's still there.
	And we have to say it's been serious enough for the farmers who we know they don't really want publicity on all of this.
	It's a very worrying thing for them.
	Serious enough for them to want to relocate the livestock.
	They've gone.
	Yeah, they're not in that particular location anymore.
	And I only visit it probably two or three times a month and just have a little walk round.
	I've found one deer, to be honest with you.
	But interestingly, there are some fields a short distance away and there are sheep in those fields.
	But this particular farmer, I've had no dealings with, but I know he's lost some.
	The reason I say that, because after spending so much time there, Howard, and seeing the condition of the other animals and what was left after they'd been killed, I can see the traces of where they've been.
	So I know there's been, whatever it is, has moved into those other fields.
	Even though I've got no evidence in the form of photographs, I know that there's animals being killed in that other field.
	And is anybody professional taking an interest in all of this?
	I think I asked you this last time.
	I tried to get Bets involved and they wouldn't touch it.
	I know the police have been involved in the livestock killings, but they've ran into a brick wall.
	They haven't a clue what's responsible for it.
	Of course, they have to put something in the report, so I'm guessing that it would probably say foxes or whatever.
	Well, initially, when I first found out it was happening, they'd been to Dane's Dyke and they'd spoken to the guy who lives in the dike, a vagrant.
	He's a lovely guy.
	He's lived there 11 years.
	I know I've said this before, and we took him some food, me and my wife, and he said I'd just missed the police.
	And when I asked him why, he said that they wanted to know if he'd seen a very unusual looking dog.
	And then they explained to him that some sheep had been killed in Bempton.
	So that's what set me off looking into it.
	Now, they haven't a clue what it is.
	And I'm not saying that as disrespectful to the police because I haven't a clue what it is.
	And I've been feet on the ground half past four, half past five in the morning for over a year, treading them fields when the livestock were in and finding these carcasses.
	And in most instances, they're still warm because obviously they retain heat.
	So whatever is doing this is getting in there quick and surgically and making a completely clean break of it and just disappearing.
	Yeah, it's almost as though there's two things happening though, because the surgical bit, as in the eyes being removed, in some instances the face is stripped of skin, and in most instances, an ear removed, but then below that, you'll find that the throat's ripped out and there's no blood.
	And I know these are different places, not very far apart, we have to say, but is there any connection between the lights phenomenon?
	And that's a big broad brush term to use for it, because we know it's more than that, and these things?
	You know, do they happen at similar times?
	From what I can see, they do, yes.
	You see the lights, you see what we call the intelligent light forms, and something unusual happens.
	You know, you'll find livestock dead.
	I've never found lights in conjunction with the livestock, as in one hovering over another.
	I do have one interesting story where the farmer came to me one morning as I was coming back from the fields about seven o'clock and it were unusual.
	He were walking towards me and I think I might have spoken about this and he said, you know the road here that was near the kissing gate because there were one that sent to be all us in a particular area of the field, a stag.
	And I sort of said, yeah, he says, well, I've just walked the dogs up the path.
	It's dead.
	And when we walked towards it, its eyes were removed and its muzzle had been stripped of skin.
	But what the farmer said was, unusually, last night he was laid in bed listening to music and there was a light moving round in his bedroom.
	Now, what I found incredible was, why didn't he get up and have a look?
	And I said that to him.
	I said, you know, but he didn't.
	Of course, he might just have been tired.
	No, that's true.
	That's true.
	But, you know, you would have a look, I think.
	I mean, look, we laugh, but there is something unexplained in the truest sense of that word going on around there.
	It is an area of high strangeness.
	And that's why it's kept you so occupied for such a long time.
	It never fails to surprise you.
	There are some possibilities here.
	And I wonder if we're any further on with any of these thoughts.
	It strikes me that some of these things could be linked to the geology of the land there.
	You know, cliffs are, you know, different compositions of rock.
	You know, I was not the best geologist in the world when I was at school, but there may be something there.
	Who knows?
	There is, of course, always the possibility that there is something not of this world involved in this.
	Or indeed, as we've said before, and given the appearance of military vehicles and sometimes personnel that you've come into contact with, is there something military happening around and on that coast that we're not meant to know about?
	Bearing in mind, of course, that that eastern coast is the one that is the frontier to the eastern bloc, which has become a hot area again between the west and the east.
	Russia, I'm talking about.
	It's Always been a place where radar installations have been put, air bases have been sighted.
	We know that.
	Is this military?
	I personally believe that the military know all about it and they're interested.
	So there is a military presence.
	You know, earlier this year, I'm not certain of the date.
	I think it was September the 16th.
	And obviously, we might not be jumping to military here, but me and myself and Bob Brown were on the cliff tops, and probably 200 yards away, there was a red, a black Range Rover Vogue, which would paced us as we're walking along the cliff tops.
	It had come off cliff lane and it was on the hillside as we were going.
	This is all on private land.
	It got dark.
	It had got blacked out windows.
	It had got no lights on.
	And I rang the farmer and said, is there anybody up here?
	Lamping.
	I said, I know it sounds silly because I can't even see a light from this vehicle.
	I said, just explain to my listener, lamping.
	Lamping is what the people would use.
	They'd take dogs with them and a powerful torch and sort of sweep it around the fields.
	And what happens usually, if you come across a rabbit or something, it becomes frozen in the light of the torch.
	And then these people who do lamping and not myself, because it's not something, I frown upon it, release a dog and the dog get the hair or the rabbit or they shoot it.
	Now, look, this is a big assumption, but I would have thought somebody doing that kind of thing, and it is, as you say, reprehensible, would have an old van.
	They wouldn't have a conspicuous, nice black Range Rover with blacked out windows, would they?
	This was a fabulous Range Rover Vogue.
	It was a really good top-of-the-range vehicle.
	Now, how do I know that?
	I'll tell you more.
	So I spoke to the farmer.
	He said there shouldn't be nobody up there.
	He says, and I'll have a ring around.
	I said, well, I can't see a light or anything on it or any lights inside it.
	We settled further down the cliffs than we normally do.
	And there's a little bit of a bench and we stopped there.
	And the crop had been cut.
	And I could hear it coming up through the stubble, the crunch of these wheels.
	And we're talking 20 foot behind us.
	Bob was sat there, Bob was my witness.
	And this vehicle then just stopped behind us.
	And Bob's going, what shall we do?
	I'm saying we're just staying here.
	It's pointless running.
	Bob's 72.
	You know, it's not going to happen.
	So we just, now that to me was intimidation.
	The windows of the vehicle were blacked out.
	Nobody put the window down to say, what are you doing, lads?
	Nobody knows who they were that were actually up there.
	And it just slowly drove off.
	That's just one sort of strange thing.
	And look, a vehicle like that, in an area like that, if we're talking about people who do this lamping thing and they've obviously done it before, people will see that and will have reported that before.
	It will have been seen around the area.
	Without a doubt, Howard, and the lamping was only a suggestion that I made.
	I couldn't think of a reason why a black Range Rover Vogue would be driving about with its lights off along the cliff tops, particularly pacing me and Bob as we walk along.
	And they're about sort of three or four hundred yards away on the distant hillside.
	And then when we actually settle, it's come down the field in advance of us and then slowly come up the field and stopped parallel to us.
	The lamping is, well, that was the only thing I could think of.
	And we ruled it out and we actually ruled out that anybody knowing who this vehicle belonged to.
	So just a strange one, you know, I mean, this year in March, a guy, a Flamborough man called Dave Barker, who's lived in Flamborough 16 years, so he's familiar with lights out over the sea.
	His property looks in the direction of the sea and the lighthouse.
	And on the 20th of March, he was driving home with his wife and he observed a huge sphere of white light above Danes Dyke.
	Picture the helicopter with the big white beam on it.
	And that's what they thought it was.
	When they got home, he parked his car up and he's just at the side of his drive.
	And suddenly between the lighthouse and Thornwick Bay, and I realize some listeners won't know what we're talking about, but we're going up the cliffs and there's it's just a little cove just up from the lighthouse.
	A huge sphere of light lit up.
	Then a second one.
	Then five lit up and they look like the configuration of a dice, the face of a dice.
	That's what he said.
	He said, and I'm looking at these things and I'm saying, how big?
	He said, they're absolutely huge.
	They're all like searchlights off a helicopter.
	Because, you know, we're not looking at stars here.
	We're not thinking like the brightest star in the sky.
	But if you've got, I have helicopters here, and sometimes they're big military Chinook style helicopters that fly over an area where I live, southwest London.
	And when they fly, they can be a long way away.
	You know, they can be a point in the distance, but the ground will reverberate with the sound of their engines because they're so powerful.
	Well, he said there was absolutely no sound.
	He said it was still, there was nothing.
	He said, and then they all started lighting up.
	He said, at one point, there was 10 in a row.
	Then they'd go out in sequence and then appear.
	He said, I was watching them for 10 to 15 minutes.
	And then another one appeared.
	And there's two in the sky.
	And then a small light moved from one and went to the other.
	He said, in the end, he said, I thought, Christ, this is really weird.
	And he said, I went inside to get my wife.
	When she came out, they'd stopped.
	Well, he rang 101, the non-emergency number, and told the police what he'd seen.
	He said, I'm not sure.
	He said, I've seen flares.
	I've seen all sorts.
	Can you tell me if there's any planes or anything military going off in the area?
	And about 10 minutes later, the Coast Guard rang him, the MCA, and asked him to explain what he'd seen and said that they would investigate it.
	They stressed that there was no military exercise on out at sea and no ships in distress.
	There's nothing at all.
	So an interesting sighting.
	I put a freedom of information request in with the date, with the time.
	I got a reply back probably, I don't know, eight hours later asking me if I could be more specific, which I found ridiculous.
	So I actually told them the witness's name and everything else because I'd kept that out of it to start with.
	But the guy doesn't mind me saying his name today, that's his name.
	And sure enough, they've sent me the information.
	The report just says strange lights observed by MOP, member of public, and it rules out everything.
	And they've done once again what I've been talking about, Howard, for years.
	And this isn't anything derogatory with the Coast Guard.
	They're doing a fabulous job, but they're just false alarm with good intent.
	Now, I find it incredible.
	How can this be a false alarm with good intent?
	We've got a man who's reported these things exist.
	In many instances, the lifeboats are sent out, you know, multiple agency lifeboats from different parts of the coast to search for these lights.
	Something exists.
	And this has been going on for years, and we can look back 20 years in your books and more when those things have been happening.
	Is there a way, and I don't know how these freedom of information requests, how far they go, is there a way that you could request information on, for example, how many times there have been searches for reports of lights, whether or not they've been classified as, you know, false alarm, good intent?
	I don't think so, Howard.
	I've got freedom information requests in for other things at the moment.
	And if it exceeds a certain time limit, I'm not sure, I think it's 18 hours, then there's a substantial charge for looking for this information.
	So what I'd be requesting there, what you've just asked about, which is a great idea, I don't think so.
	But I think it would be a public service to—I think we could actually, through lifeboat logs and through MCA, through Maritime Coast Guard Agency, we can actually plot and document a very real phenomena.
	So we can't say it's real.
	We can't, unless the governments or unless some high-powered authority comes forward with proof or Paul Sinclair can actually get some incredible proof of this, we're always going to be dealing with a proof whose existence is denied, Howard.
	So as we end one year and we step into this new year, 2020, there is the thought there, circumstantially because we don't have solid proof that you could rely on in a court of law, we have circumstantial evidence here.
	But the thought is beginning, and you've probably had it for a long time, but the thought is beginning to dawn that indeed somebody, perhaps in power, knows what's going on there.
	But they don't want you to know what's going on there.
	I don't think we're supposed to know.
	I don't think they do want us to know.
	What the reasons for that are, I don't know.
	Have you thought of asking your member of parliament ever?
	I haven't, no.
	I mean, listen, we both know that there was a big general election here in the last couple of weeks.
	There is a completely new government, and a lot of MPs lost their parliamentary seats, and a lot of new ones have come in.
	I wonder if an MP would be interested, if there were you and a couple of other people, in asking a question about this in parliament.
	It's almost worth, and you would certainly get yourself coverage in the newspapers, if you could get an MP to ask a question in a parliamentary debate about what is happening in that area, backed up by reports that go back a long time, I think we might be getting somewhere in 2020.
	I think it's a brilliant idea in view of the documented history contained in these old lifeboat and maritime coastguard agency logs that cannot deny that something very real and tangible exists and saying false alarm with good intent each time they've not resolved it to me is not an answer.
	Well, I guess that's what you say when you just haven't got a clue.
	But what do I know?
	Listen, Paul, thank you for doing this as the first show of 2020, The Unexplained.
	I wanted you to be on the first show for reasons that you know.
	I think you're doing fantastic work and you put together a tremendous narrative and you put such a hard amount of effort into it all.
	So fair play to you.
	As we start the year, apart from the book, what are you going to be doing?
	We're starting a new documentary, myself and Chris Turner.
	We've got a title for it, guys.
	It's called The Super Liminal, which means on the fringes of existence.
	I think that's the rough terminology of what it is.
	And I shall be working on my book, The Night People, which has just about finished.
	And when we spoke last time, I said I was close with Truth Proof 4.
	In Truth, Howard, I've got all the information there for it.
	But I've been just heavily involved in the research and the night people.
	There's so many more.
	The night people is the reason probably why I'm so entrenched in this subject.
	And I'm trying to do a diary of events from my childhood to present day, of personal experiences to myself, the reason why I've got scars on my arms, scars on my backs, my back, backs.
	And, you know, just putting together a documented history of what's happened to me, as truthfully as I can.
	This may sound like a boast, but I believe personally, not just because it's about me, that it's going to be an absolutely amazing book on abduction.
	And do you think that you're an abductee?
	Well, I can't think of any other thing that I could be because I've seen these beings, Howard.
	I've seen them from childhood.
	Not in recent years.
	I've got to admit, not in recent years.
	1998 was the last time that I saw them.
	But I've got memories of them that are as clear and as sharp today as they were when I was a five and six year old boy.
	And do they look like, you know, the classical reports of aliens and are they communicating telepathically, that kind of thing?
	I've got nothing but fear.
	And I wouldn't say hatred, that's a big word, but I've nothing good to say about these things.
	I've heard of people talking about love and light and their experiences, but not for me.
	Nothing but absolute sheer fear when these things have been around and in my life.
	And yes, the large, large eyes.
	I mean, I thought when I initially saw them, I thought they were cows, the actual eyes, because they were the only thing I Could relate to there were cows in the pasture at the back of where I lived at Old Denby.
	And as a small boy, we've got that many, we've got that few life experiences.
	Something with large black eyes, and I could see these things stood in the curtains.
	And when I say stood in the curtains, they were a similar colour.
	We'd got some pale blue to grey fiberglass curtains for want of a better word.
	And that's what they were, guys.
	Fiberglass.
	They'd not be allowed today.
	And these things were stood there.
	Yeah, we had those.
	I remember those.
	Sorry.
	It's fine.
	Awful.
	It really were, yeah.
	But I mean, my mum, because they were cheap and they were bright and my mum.
	We all had them.
	Yeah, decorated all the house with these blooming curtains over a period of a few weeks, but they stepped out of the curtains.
	So, you know, do you think that something, as, you know, this is not, well, it is rare, but it's not unknown.
	Other people have reported this kind of thing, that perhaps you were singled out from a very early age.
	And what you're doing now is exactly what somebody out there meant you to do.
	It could be.
	I've really got no idea.
	They've not communicated anything to me in the form of some intelligent message for mankind or anything.
	I mean, I would wake up the instance where I woke up and I thought there was a bedspring turning in my back.
	And I knew there weren't a bedspring turning in my back because these things were at the side of the bed.
	But the ultimate manipulators of your mind, Howard, because somehow I think they can read our minds like we read books.
	They speak to you in the mind.
	Well, I'm sure that's the case.
	Now, anybody hearing this and say, oh, well, I think this guy maybe needs to be speaking to a professional.
	But, you know, the work that you're doing, it's not just...
	The truth proof books involve you, but they're about the real life stories of real people, more of them coming to you all the time.
	So we can't say that this is something that you are creating.
	This is something that, you know, that's come to you.
	Very true.
	The books, there's nothing about me and these encounters in childhood in the books.
	I restrained from talking about this probably until 2014, and Whitley Striber encouraged me to talk about it.
	Well, no, probably a little bit after.
	But the point is, I don't shove this down other people's throats, Howard.
	We've just touched on it today.
	I'm not going to deny the truth of something that's happened to me just because someone can't get their head around it.
	And if you talk to people like Kathleen Marden, she will tell you that she's hearing from more and more people and, you know, all of the people who deal with contactees, abductees, more and more people, more and more stories.
	But there are still, I'm sure, thousands of people around the world who also have stories who haven't been willing, haven't had the confidence to come out and tell them.
	That's true, Howard.
	You see, I can only remember snapshots, little cameos of events.
	Some people, like you've just said, the many thousands that are bound to be out there who've got full, they might have full recollection of things that have happened.
	But because of the fear of ridicule, because of the actual bizarreness, once again, we're actually talking about something whose existence is denied.
	And it's very hard for somebody who's never had an experience like this to take someone serious who begins to talk about these kind of experiences.
	Until they have an experience themselves.
	So we need to talk about night people.
	We need to talk about Truth Proof 4 when we next speak.
	One last thing.
	I'm hearing and you're hearing from more and more people who want to visit Benton.
	They've been attracted by the story.
	Are you worried about the place becoming a tourist attraction for all the wrong reasons and thereby making it hard to do proper research?
	In a way, yeah, it's happening all the time.
	I wouldn't say every time we go up there, but quite often now people are on the cliff tops.
	But it's not asking, you know, coming up and speaking to me, saying they've read the books.
	And I don't own the place.
	You know, people are welcome to come up.
	Just stay, keep level.
	You know, don't go anywhere that you're not supposed to go.
	Keep off the RAF base.
	Keep from the edges of the cliffs and just absorb the area and see whether you come away with some kind of feeling or experience.
	And if you have an experience, Paul Sinclair was the man to talk to.
	Contact me, please.
	Paul, listen, I'm very proud of everything that you've achieved.
	I'm very proud of your work ethic.
	And I can only wish you a great 2020.
	And thank you for talking with me again.
	Howard, thank you very much.
	It's been a pleasure.
	And if people want to read about you, if they haven't heard of you before this podcast, where do they go?
	Well, obviously, Howard Hughes, the Unexplained, or find out about me, there's a truth proof channel on YouTube.
	We've got Amazon.
	You can just type in truth proof and you'll find my books there.
	And we've got a Facebook page, the Truth Proof Facebook page.
	And I'll try and respond to anybody that contacts me, providing you doing a civil way.
	Paul, Happy New Year.
	Happy New Year.
	Thank you.
	The remarkable Paul Sinclair, and I have to say that I wish him all the very best for 2020.
	Thank you very much for being part of my show during 2019.
	Thank you for stepping forward into 2020 with me.
	We have more great guests in the pipeline as we begin this new year.
	So until next we meet, my name is Howard Hughes.
	This has been The Unexplained Online.
	And please, wherever you are, stay safe, stay calm, and above all, please stay in touch.
	Thank you very much.
	Take care.

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