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Nov. 8, 2019 - The Unexplained - Howard Hughes

01:08:08

Edition 418 - Cynthia Sue Larson

Scientist/researcher Cynthia Sue Larson on alternative realities, quantum physics consciousness and "the Mandela Effect"...

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	Across the UK, across continental North America and around the world on the internet, by webcast and by podcast, my name is Howard Hughes and this is The Unexplained.
	Well, the rain and the wind are pounding on my window at the moment.
	The leaves are brown.
	They're being blown against the window in amongst bursts of rain.
	So I think that is telling us here in the UK that winter has arrived.
	And it'll be here for a number of months, as we know.
	Very strange, though.
	Yesterday was quite warm and dull, but quite warm.
	And today it's completely changed.
	So, you know, the weather's a bit weird at the moment.
	Thank you very much.
	If you've sent an email in recently, and if you sent a donation for the show through the website, theunexplained.tv, thank you very much for that.
	And if you haven't, please consider sending a donation to the show.
	Remember, a cup of coffee in a place in the UK is going to cost you £2, £2.50 these days, probably $2.50 just for a basic coffee in the US.
	And that, of course, if that was donated to The Unexplained, it would make a big difference to us.
	Coffee's gone in 10 minutes.
	The Unexplained, an edition of this show you can listen to if you want to over and over again.
	So if you can make a donation to the show as we come to the end of this year, that would be great.
	And if you have, like I say, thank you.
	My story.
	We're going to do some more listener stories on the radio show.
	So if you would like to tell your story, or the story that comes maybe from your family that's chilled and terrified you around the fireside in winter, you know, through your life, then I would love to hear from you.
	Go to the website, theunexplained.tv, and if you can put in the subject line of the email so I see it, my story, and I will put them all together.
	And if you can put a phone number there, then we'll do that and get in touch with you, like we did last time.
	It went really well on the radio.
	So we're going to try that again.
	Listener stories on the radio show, which is ongoing.
	The podcast, of course, was what started it all off and is the basis for everything that we do here.
	And, you know, whatever happens anywhere else, the podcast, my aim is it will always continue here for you.
	Right.
	Shout outs we're going to do in just a second.
	The guest on this edition, Cynthia Sue Larson, we're going to be talking with her in the California Sunshine.
	She will be, I'm not jealous, about alternate realities and changing your reality through consciousness and various other things.
	We haven't done a topic like this for a while, and I don't think we've ever done something quite like this, but Cynthia Sularson, very different, has featured on a number of American shows, so I thought I would do her here because to me she sounded interesting and for a number of reasons, including the fact that she is a scientist.
	She has a qualification from Berkeley University in the US in physics.
	Now, that's unusual, I think, for somebody who does this stuff.
	We'll hear from her soon.
	Shout outs then.
	Heider Roger, thank you very much for your suggestion.
	And we'll be following through on that, of course.
	Ender and Lorentino in Portugal.
	Good to hear from you.
	Norman in Cardiff, in the land of my fathers.
	Nice to hear from you.
	Melinda, Amanda and Siobhan, thank you for your emails and contacts.
	Kevin in Waltham Abbey.
	Not to be confused with any other Waltham anywhere else.
	Because I think I said Waltham Forest once.
	Waltham Abbey.
	Kevin says that he went to Bempton, which of course is the scene of high strangeness in Yorkshire in those truth-proof books from Paul Sinclair, who will soon be returning to this show, by the way.
	Dan in Egbeth in Liverpool, thank you for your suggestion.
	Stan, Dan and Stan, Stan, thank you for your thought about the book The Vertical Plane.
	Beth.
	No, Seth.
	Sorry, Seth.
	Seth, that's my eyesight.
	I've got to get new glasses.
	Seth liked the edition with the Hertax, JJ and Desiree.
	Not everybody did.
	Some people did.
	Some people didn't.
	Thank you for that.
	Seth.
	Mark Townend, nice for you to get in touch.
	Thank you very much.
	Amy in Baltimore.
	Thank you for your email.
	Regular emailer, Amy.
	Omar in West London, thank you for your email.
	Samantha, good to hear from you.
	Al in Worthing, thank you for your email.
	And Andy in West Hall's Lead 2.
	Ed in Texas says, Howard, have you ever heard of Long John Niebel, who was a late-night radio host in New York in the 50s, 60s, and 70s?
	Several nights a month, his guest would include people from other planets, including Venus.
	It's the kind of guests we need to be getting here.
	And this was pre-Art Bell days.
	Thank you for that, Ed.
	From Tim in Yorkshire.
	Tim says, wanted to email you and say how much I'm enjoying your podcasts and going back through the back catalogue.
	I've found those that you've undertaken where you speak with Paul St. Clair to be the most interesting and fascinating.
	I live in Leeds and I'm seriously considering heading out to Bempton to see if there's any phenomenon that I can observe.
	Well, good luck with that, Tim.
	Let me know what goes on with that.
	And you also say a couple of other things that I'm bearing in mind, a couple of things that you may think may be linked and connected.
	And when I get a second, as you asked, I will pass on your email to Paul.
	And that's about it.
	If you want to get in touch with us here at The Unexplained, I say us.
	If you want to get in touch with me at The Unexplained, I see all the email.
	And if you require a response, then you get one.
	And if you ask for a shout out, try and make that happen.
	If you haven't heard your name and you asked for it, please remind me.
	Give me a push.
	Absent-minded now.
	So it's theunexplained.tv and you can send me an email from there.
	Okay, the guest on this edition of the show is Cynthia Sue Larson, scientifically qualified, scientifically trained, but dealing very much in alternate realities and consciousness in a way that you may not have heard.
	We will reference subjects like the Mandela effect in this conversation.
	So let's cross from stormy London town to sunny California and Cynthia Sue Larson.
	Thank you very much, Cynthia, for coming on my show.
	It's such a pleasure to be on your show today.
	Thank you.
	Well, good to have you on.
	And I know that as we record this, the area not far from where you are, of course, has been affected by those California fires.
	So I hope that you're okay.
	Yes, I'm just fine.
	And the smoke is clearing.
	So I'm feeling better every day, fortunately.
	You know, fires are becoming a regular reality there, though.
	It's a great worry for people who live in that area.
	Yes, We've had a risk of it for a long time, but it seems a number of factors have combined to make it especially dangerous and problematic in the recent years.
	Well, let's hope that, you know, in this season there won't be any more of it.
	But, you know, my thoughts are with all of my friends who live in California and anybody who's near that.
	It's quite a thing to go through.
	Now, talk to me about you, Cynthia, then.
	I'm very keen to know about your background, because when I read about what you do and what we'll be talking about, then I was very surprised to find that actually you have a scientific background.
	Yes, I do.
	I've got a degree in physics from UC Berkeley, and I've utilized that to some degree as I've organized consciousness conferences over the past five years or so with Foundations of Mind, and I've co-authored a paper on physics having to do with the objectivity assumption with physicist George Weissman.
	And I've gotten the blessing of some of my physics professors for a lot of what I am doing and for the books that I've written.
	And I've kept current with some of the cutting-edge physicists who are working toward unifying between the quantum physics theories and much more of the relativistic side.
	So, yes, I stay pretty current.
	Which increasingly is beginning to happen.
	I mean, you know, some of those things you just discussed and you said that you had the support, the approval of your colleagues in science, many of them, that probably wouldn't have happened 20, 30 years ago.
	That's correct.
	And when I say approval, in some cases, they may not fully appreciate every aspect of what I'm talking about because, mind you, quite a bit of what I cover is rather cutting edge.
	And you could call it controversial to some degree, because when we get into the fact that our mind can absolutely have an effect on reality in such a degree that I've witnessed and that others around me also witness, that's where it starts getting a little bit harder to pin down and say with certainty all scientists can get behind this.
	Even though in principle, we're getting a majority now of scientists and physicists who do agree that you and I and everyone and everything absolutely exists in a superposition of states.
	That means there are all these multitude possibilities in each and every one of us.
	And some of us have had the feeling that that may be so.
	And some of us, and I'm one of those people, have tended rationally to dismiss that feeling.
	But more and more we seem to be presented with the beginnings of evidence about this.
	I was astonished this last week, and maybe you saw the story too, to read a newspaper story.
	I think it originated from the U.S. It may have originated from here, but wherever it originated from, it was a scientist suggesting that there may be multiple realities, multiple versions of ourselves.
	Now, you would never have got a scientist saying anything even approaching that, even 10 years ago.
	So something is changing and something is shifting.
	Absolutely.
	And I'm grateful to see that we're getting increasing reports from experimental laboratories that are backing up these extraordinary comments and assertions that otherwise people would feel like they're way too out on a limb to say any such thing.
	Before we get stuck into the meat of this, then talk to me about you then and the journey that you've taken and the reason that you're doing the work that you're doing and you're not working in what is known these days as orthodox science.
	Yes.
	Well, my fascination, my passion has more to do with consciousness.
	And a large part of that comes from ever since childhood, really having a great deal of awareness of having existed before I was born.
	So I know that may sound a bit mystical and it is.
	So obviously that created a very different kind of upbringing for me, worldview, perspective, just witnessing things since childhood that were what a lot of people would call impossible or extraordinary.
	And you say that you believe that you had an existence before you were born.
	Does that mean that you believe that now you are reincarnated?
	Well, you could call it that.
	The existence that I most clearly remember was being between lives and blissed out in that delightful experience.
	And frankly, I wasn't really feeling ready to come back in and being alive again.
	So yeah, I wasn't so much dwelling on past lives as I was just extraordinarily happy to be pure energy, pure consciousness, easily able to access everybody and everything and every idea.
	It's a wonderful kind of a feeling.
	So much love.
	Sounds all-embracing.
	How did you get through then as a student at Berkeley, studying physics, studying serious science?
	How did you get by having these thoughts that maybe there's something else?
	Right.
	Well, it did help, of course, to be very down to earth, which I also am.
	So I'm able to put myself into very clear ways of thinking.
	And I tend to do best when I'm not aware of how I'm being measured.
	That's when I just have such high personal standards that I keep myself going.
	So I'm very self-motivating and I'm capable of great analytical success.
	So I was good at mathematics, good at science.
	But when I got to quantum physics at UC Berkeley, that's when I was happiest because that was where I was able for the first time in my life to be able to write down the intuitive answer that I would sense to be true for the problem at hand.
	And in quantum physics, in certain kinds of problems, that's exactly what you do.
	You just write down the answer.
	And I felt like finally, this is the kind of science that makes sense to me intuitively.
	And I'd say that intuition is very much a part of quantum physics.
	It's just hand in hand.
	It goes together so beautifully.
	And would you say that quantum physics, and we need to just briefly, for my listener, who perhaps is new to all of this, because I'm getting people join me all the time, you know, what quantum physics is, but are you saying that quantum physics is the realm where what we thought scientifically was impossible suddenly meets the possible?
	That's one way to put it.
	I like it, actually.
	I like it a lot because I love it.
	I'm liking it better and better.
	Yeah, there's something magic when you say that because really, when we take a look at it, quantum physics is about the possibilities.
	It really is.
	And I think that's why it's so vexing to scientists who come from that material realistic framework of Boolean logic where, and you know the whole mindset that I'm talking about.
	We assume that there's one truth.
	We assume that there is going to be a way to objectively observe an experiment that we'll be able to measure our results.
	You know, all of these things come into rather grave problems when you bring in quantum physics right from the start because the observer does play a role.
	Subjectivity appears to be dominant, not objectivity.
	And in fact, when we try to sweep quantum physics under the rug, so to speak, and say, no problem, we don't have to look at these things because they only impact the very, very small, you know, tiny, teeny, tiny little quantum building blocks of matter, nothing big at all.
	Then we realize, no, that's not true either because everything is fundamentally quantum and it's everywhere.
	So we're soaking in it.
	We're surrounded by it.
	And it's all about possibilities.
	So I think that's brilliant.
	Totally agree.
	I mean, that's a very uplifting statement.
	What does it mean?
	For our practical purposes in our daily lives, it would have to bring us into a state of awareness that things are not as cut and dry and absolutely fixed in place as we might worry that they are.
	We might be anxious that they are.
	So on the other hand, people that don't like uncertainty may be quite uncomfortable, realizing there's so much possibility, I don't know what to do with it.
	But I like to look at it as an optimist and recognize when we come to terms with being resourceful, being resilient, being able to make use of any opportunity that comes our way, then we're going to be just fine.
	Before we did this, I watched one of a number of videos of you online where you were talking very cogently, I thought, about reality shifts and how to shift reality and how all of that beds in and ties in with what you've just been discussing.
	Talk to me about reality shifting, which is a lot of what you do, what that is and how we might accomplish that.
	Yes, reality shifting is, well, it starts for most people as a sort of a random occurrence that they don't know what's going on.
	They may even observe what's now being called a Mandela effect, which is very much a global kind of a reality shift where a whole number of people are remembering a different history.
	So what that means is, and I've tried to get a few people to talk about that on my radio show with varying degrees of success.
	But Nelson Mandela, I know South Africa very well, spent a lot of time there.
	We know his history.
	He was imprisoned by the regime on Robin Island, a prison colony, was then released and became the man who transformed his country.
	That is history.
	But that apparently is not the only view of history in that case, and indeed in some other cases too, yeah?
	Yes, and I love the current history.
	I think it's fantastic.
	So those of us who remember, as I do and many others do, that there's another reality where Nelson Mandela died while he was still incarcerated.
	And then there was some of us who remember that remember that there were a series of events that occurred subsequently having to do with his widow, with a whole bunch of bodyguards and unrest and sort of an uprising.
	And then she was really doing a lot to calm down people's emotional upset, obviously, because their dreams and hopes had been dashed with his death.
	And then there were a whole series of legal things that happened.
	Well, anyway, the point is, why would so many of us remember so many of these same types of details?
	We're not just simply mixing up someone else.
	I have to say, there are one or two, I mean, they're trivial examples in my life, where people tell me this is how a thing is.
	My recollection of it is different.
	And I just put that down to the fact, well, I'm getting older and all of our brains record things differently.
	But maybe, maybe that's not it.
	Right.
	And obviously, we follow, I like to follow Occam's razor, which is just take the simplest solutions.
	So if, for example, I might think, well, I went to my washing machine and I thought that I put socks in there that matched.
	Maybe not.
	Maybe I made a mistake.
	But if you're slightly obsessive and maybe a little compulsive about doing things in a certain way, these very strange changes stand out tremendously.
	And the more of these you start noticing, then at some point, that's where I began recognizing something is going on.
	So in 1999, I really started that website, realityshifters.com, and started sharing these experiences with people because I recognized, thanks to my background in physics, especially looking at quantum physics, it seemed very highly likely to me that consciousness is playing a role much more than anybody recognizes.
	And it's our levels of consciousness that are bringing us the ability to occasionally witness more than one possible past.
	And so this is the bait.
	Yeah.
	There's just something, I'm sorry to interrupt there, but there's just something that we need to be explaining about that, I think.
	Are we saying that, as some people are now starting to believe, that there are various bands of reality, alternative realities, different versions of ourselves, perhaps in another space, like that Mandela example that you gave?
	Or are we saying that, in fact, collectively, our minds are able to change this reality?
	Which of those is it or is it both?
	I'd say both have aspects of importance to consider.
	The superposition of states is a concept central to quantum physics itself that I believe we're starting to witness in our physical world.
	Superposition of states.
	Yes, which it would be, for example, in one reality, a person might have blindness coming on.
	They're developing glaucoma or cataracts or something like that.
	But in another reality, they don't.
	And I just recently spoke with an expert who had been working with people who had multiple personality disorder.
	And she had seen in her fieldwork and just these examples of people who absolutely would be blind in one version of themselves, but in another, fully sighted.
	And the occlusions that were quite visible to the medical practitioners tending to that multiple personality person were gone.
	And so this would be something that we know is happening.
	People that work with multiple personality disorder patients occasionally witness it.
	And it's a very, once you've seen something like that, then you know there's something bigger going on.
	And you start wanting to have answers.
	So the superposition of states concept from physics, it doesn't tell us which interpretation of quantum physics is indeed everybody's going to agree on.
	Like this is definitely Hugh Everett's many worlds theory, you know, or it's definitely the transactional interpretation of physicist John Kramer and so on and so forth.
	We're not saying that.
	So we're not saying for sure all these different realities totally exist.
	What I am saying is that sometimes many of us are experiencing multiple realities and that is a reality for us.
	And in that example that you gave, in that medical example that you gave, what were the signs that the person had, you know, the personality disorder had another existence somewhere else?
	What were the tangible signs of that?
	Yes, and the practitioner I'm speaking of, she's author Jan Engels Smith, and I did interview her recently on my program, Living the Quantum Dream, so people can look it up and get more details and read her books.
	But as far as those exact specifics, all I recall her telling me is that for sure she saw there was a person who had trouble seeing.
	And it was so obvious to herself and to the other caregivers for this individual that this person clearly had a problem with their eyes.
	That was relevant to me because I've witnessed in my own life, my own home, our pet dog had cataracts in some reality.
	And when I witnessed that he was starting to go blind with visible cataracts, I immediately thought, no, this is our favorite family dog.
	We can't let him go blind.
	That's not okay.
	I love him so much.
	So this would be the steps of creating a reality shift, a quantum jump, basically visualizing the difference in what I would like to experience, knowing that we need that to be true, feeling how much I love the dog.
	And then for me, his vision returned to normal.
	This is an interesting case because two more family members stepped forward to me.
	Next came my daughter, pointing out, mom, there's something wrong with the dog.
	And I said, is it his eyes?
	She said, yes, he's got cataracts.
	And I said, well, sometimes it looks like he has cataracts, but here's what we're going to do, or here's what I'm doing.
	And then it goes away.
	And my daughter has grown up all her life.
	She's now in her 20s, has a PhD, cognitive neuroscience.
	So she knows these things can and do happen.
	Of course, did you take that to a vet, though?
	I mean, was the vet able to verify that something had happened?
	No.
	Individually, three of our family members came forward one at a time, coming to me and telling me each, first it was me, then my daughter, then my husband, all of us noticing the same exact thing.
	And, you know, in other cases, I have gone.
	Can I just go back to the dog, though?
	Because the dog does not, I mean, we know that animals are much more aware than ever we thought they were.
	You've only got to look at videos that appear on YouTube and Facebook to see examples of that all the time.
	But if the dog is not aware of that, how could the dog's reality change?
	That's a good question.
	Dogs and horses are two of the animals that have proven scientifically to be the best candidates for the placebo effect.
	This is in case studies and trials where these animals are given various things.
	In the case of dogs, they were working with animals that had hip dysplasia.
	And the owners and the dogs were all given placebos to treat this hip dysplasia problem.
	The doctors were then, the veterinarians were monitoring the animals as they walked on some kind of a, you know, it's a treadmill thing to see how the animal moved, how much pain it was showing, how much flexibility it demonstrated, and so on and so forth, strength, all those indicators that veterinarians would be looking for.
	What they witnessed is that the placebo group was for the dogs that were getting a placebo, and the owners also did not know whether their animal had a placebo or the actual drug.
	And I think this was one of those beautiful platinum studies where the veterinarian was blind.
	Nobody knew what it was until they open the envelopes at the end of the study and find out.
	What a shock.
	The animals that were getting the placebo were doing just fine.
	So they're very responsive.
	Dogs are extremely responsive to what you might call human intention.
	That would be a possible agent for this kind of an effect to occur.
	So the dog responded to the family's intention.
	How did you fire that up?
	How did you make that work?
	Did you get up and think every day the dog's getting better?
	Well, I like to work with basically three simple areas.
	You can think of it as head, heart, and gut.
	So the vision in my mind is just picturing the dog every day.
	He's going to have clear eyes.
	I'll look at his eyes.
	They're going to look great.
	He'll have clear vision.
	He'll be able to see perfectly.
	In my heart, I just feel how much I love the dog.
	And in my gut, this is the most important thing of all.
	It's a subconscious.
	I feel that I need our dog to be sighted so we can go on those walks that he loves to go on and have the life he enjoys.
	And yet, We know from everyday living, from our friends, sometimes from ourselves, that people get sick and they don't get better, even though they want to.
	So it doesn't work all the time.
	In fact, it may not work even some of the time, if you see what I'm saying.
	It seems to be special cases.
	It's not everybody because we all know.
	And I recently had and still in the process of having some hospital tests.
	So I've had a chance to just observe people around me at the hospital and how some of them don't appear to be making any progress and some of them do.
	So not everybody is able to really want to get better and improve and actually do it.
	Why is that?
	Okay, there are a number of factors, and I broke it down into three big areas, but there's also, as you point out indirectly, there is that little special factor of what you might call just a boost of energy.
	Some people bring it in through prayer, belief in God, that there is this divine intervention.
	There's a source of beautiful infinite energy that comes through, which I do believe in.
	And to really harness that is basically a gift from God, I believe.
	So that's why we're not walking around, walking on water, performing all the miracles that Jesus performed every minute of every day, because these things are special.
	I think they really do happen at extraordinary moments in time.
	So we don't see miracles for every situation.
	Having said that, I've seen dozens of miracles, just flat-out miracles.
	And so I know that it's possible for all of us, and there's no exception.
	I don't think that some people are bad or not worthy.
	I really don't think so.
	And are some of them miracles or are they just examples of our having abilities that we simply don't realize that we have?
	I mean, for example, you read from time to time stories of a car that might roll on top of somebody and then somebody comes up, man comes up with, who displays the most amazing strength that he didn't know he had and lifts the car up and the person gets out.
	You know, some of those things are miracles and some of those perhaps are just capacities that we might have latent within us and not realize.
	Yes.
	Or maybe they're the same thing.
	Who knows?
	When you look at levels of self, you could make an argument that they are the same thing.
	When you recognize that that certain very high energy, infinite awareness, eternal beingness state of oneself that we call God, if you can identify with that, then yes, these are all levels of our self.
	I have some very hard and very critical listeners who send me emails.
	And when people make statements, you know, I'm very open-minded about stuff.
	That's why I do this show.
	And, you know, it isn't for me to say whether something is or is not.
	All I know is my own experience that I've seen many remarkable things.
	And that's one of the reasons I do this show.
	But you haven't yet, I don't think, and before those people start typing to me, given me scientific reasons why miracles or changes in reality can happen.
	Where is the science?
	How does that happen?
	That science is going to be almost impossible to demonstrate for the simple fact that the material realistic view of the world, what we call classical physics, what we call classical Boolean logic, I would call that a special case subset of the greater quantum reality.
	So you're not going to see the kind of proof you're looking for because when you get into that larger universal set of quantum logic, quantum reality, and I've written a paper about this, people can feel free to look that up because this gets into the nitty-gritty of what some of the top theoretical physicists are doing to be able to derive all of quantum physics from six simple postulates.
	That's an extraordinary ability and an achievement, something that we've been able to do.
	When you can derive all of that, then we're getting closer to maybe what you might call pinning God down.
	But there's a problem because the nature of quantum physics is such that there's always going to be that realm of possibility that you brought up right from the start.
	It means that we don't necessarily have all the information.
	And it seems to be an intrinsic aspect of quantum physics itself to keep its secrets so that we can never at any point know, for example, the location and the momentum of a given quantum particle.
	But that very aspect of quantum physics, it's very, very profound and very deep.
	It pretty much permeates every aspect of quantum physics.
	So are you saying that the truth of this will be revealed to us by the results?
	We can't I was terrible at maths at school.
	I was awful.
	But you'd have to show your workings out on the exam paper.
	So we're saying that although we may not be able to see the workings out, we'll see the final sum.
	And from that, we'll gradually begin to understand what's happened.
	For some people, yes.
	For those that have doubts and are looking for ways to remain skeptical, I'm sure they'll continue being able to do that.
	There seems to be no limit to one's ability to remain skeptical as well.
	So I don't know that we'll be able to prove to everyone's satisfaction that miracles or God exist.
	That's necessarily going to be a leap of faith.
	I think that's just the way it is.
	So do you come at this primarily from the point of view of religion?
	You mentioned God three times now.
	Just out of interest, is that something that is intrinsic and integral to all of this?
	I believe it's necessary, especially when we get into the quantum physics, to look at something, whatever you want choose to call it.
	And I find it interesting that some physicists call this idea that I'm calling God.
	They might call it the census taker.
	They might call it nature.
	You know, they are pussyfooting and stepping around it in various ways.
	But my own personal preference philosophically is to go along the lines of living philosopher Nicholas Rescher, who wrote a book, Axiogenesis, very much along the lines of Leip Nietzsche, another philosopher who believes in optimalism.
	And this would be my own bias, my subjective view of reality.
	And I think that matters because there's no way that a scientist can now move in on this topic and be able to present anything without needing to disclose their personal bias.
	And we're witnessing that in 2019 with experiments that for the first time are showing that two observers at the same place in time are absolutely capable of witnessing events very differently.
	And that just blows a hole right through one of our central tenets and foundational pillars of Western science as we know it, that there can be such a thing as objective reality, that there can be one objective truth.
	Now we're noticing, no, two subjective observers are seeing two very different things at the same place, same time, and both of these instruments are considered 100% reliable.
	So we're starting to see the shakedown of these assumptions that quantum physics has always been threatening for more than 100 years.
	And of the two, in this case of two observers experiencing the same thing differently, is it because they are placed differently in the universe?
	In other words, they're in a slightly different reality.
	Or is it because they are affecting the outcomes separately that they see?
	And again, that gets into the interpretation of quantum physics that you choose to accept, which as I said earlier, we have not come to any final conclusions about.
	So that's what makes these experimental findings from a laboratory environment such as, and I've blogged about this, so people that want to look it up can look at what did Cynthia Sue Larson write about objectivity in 2019.
	You'll go straight to the video and the blog post I wrote about it.
	And basically, this should be front page news, you know, because it's something that I co-authored a paper about with physicist George Weissman several years ago.
	And now, sure enough, we're starting to get some absolute proof that there looks like the writing is on the wall, that the days of this idea that we can have one truth, one set of facts that everyone agrees with, is starting to crumble.
	Some people don't believe in climate change.
	Most of science, and I know there are going to be people who will take exception with what I'm about to say, but most of science believes that we are experiencing climate change.
	At this moment, you've been experiencing fires in California.
	If you look at South Africa now, they have a terrible drought that appears to be getting worse and is going to have quite seismic consequences for them.
	Are you saying that, for example, if we harnessed these abilities and capacities, we would collectively be able to change things like climate change?
	Yes, I'd not said that so far, but that is what I believe to be true.
	And we have a premise for this as well, too.
	There is a long history of shamanism in the world.
	And you could say that there had been caretakers of the world in all of our continents, all of our cultures, on every single branch of humanity on the earth for thousands of years.
	And that idea that we could be caretakers, and the indigenous peoples of the world know this.
	They know how to look to nature and read more deeply than just what might be felt by the physical senses.
	They know to dream with nature, to access this subjective level of awareness.
	That's what's been lost with the advent of Western scientific technological advancement over the last several hundred years.
	So, you know, a couple thousand years perhaps, but things have really made a change radically on the planet.
	And you can look at what, regardless what you attribute the changes of weather to be, I definitely do believe that the humanity on the planet right now is fully capable of harnessing these new tools that you call possibility tools.
	I love it, of quantum physics, and absolutely access those levels of energy and sense of self, visualizing the kind of future we do believe is best for all concerned.
	You know, I'd like to believe this very much.
	And what you say speaks to me, I think, to a great extent, in a way that over the deck, we can see examples of this, but we've almost become too cool for school as a human race.
	You know, we've become so mechanistic at the way we look at things.
	We have ruled out possibilities beyond the mundane that we can see.
	And by doing that, and I only sense this is a possibility, there goes that word again, we've missed out.
	As we say in the UK, we've missed a trick, but that's only my feeling.
	I can't prove that.
	Yes, it is a feeling.
	And I don't think it's too late.
	I think that we really have this huge window of opportunity.
	I think quantum physics is coming along at the right time.
	Thank goodness for all of these new quantum computers.
	The reason I say that is because that's where we're getting these amazing laboratory findings, such as the one I just described about the absence of actual objectivity in the universe.
	And that's why it's such an extraordinary time on the planet right now that we can actually benefit from what we're learning in these laboratories where they're entangling diamonds, for example.
	These are things you can hold in your hand, yet the diamonds can absolutely be working in cahoots with one another.
	I don't know if you have that phrase in England, but it means that they're kind of working like they're, yes, but secretly, like there's no way they could know that they're going to be collaborating, but they do.
	So thanks to quantum technologies such as what we're developing to see what kind of quantum computers will be best.
	In Australia, they're working with quantum computing, working with photons and light.
	In China, I think that's where they were working with some of the diamonds.
	You know, in Europe, they're doing similar things.
	This is top secret research until they make some advancement and then bring it out to share with the public.
	But in every single case, I'm excited because it's starting to prove that we ourselves, with our own, just our human thoughts, with our inner technology, we can do quite a bit just through the way that We observe and the way we interact with nature to have a profound effect on the world.
	So we don't need to look to some handheld device to put all of our hope and dreams into that, to the technology of the hardware and software.
	But we can start recognizing that we ourselves can change the world through things like our thoughts, our feelings, our caring for one another.
	Okay, you talked to me about your dog.
	In your experience of yourself and other people who you've worked with and known, how have they, do you think, been able to change and mold their own reality?
	Yeah, many people that I've worked with, I work one-on-one with people.
	Having said that, I do publish also a monthly newsletter.
	I write books.
	So to the degree that people are self-starters and they can get the ideas from the books and the videos and the podcast and the monthly newsletter I've been publishing since 1999, that's great.
	20 years now.
	Absolutely 20 years.
	Very exciting.
	A little bit longer because before I started reality shifters.com, I had a brief period of time that I was at the thirdage.com website learning how to create a website.
	This goes so far back, people may not remember before social media.
	Yeah, but what I do with one-on-ones with people is work to find out where exactly are there areas to improve and what can they do in particular.
	So just like going to a specialist to work on a certain skill, I'm helping people develop their ability to more clearly get what they would like to experience in life.
	Okay.
	And what differentiates that?
	And I don't want to sound like Mr. Hardheart, horrible skeptic, because, you know, I'm a great believer in, you know, if you can conceive it, you can achieve it.
	I think I've done some of that, not nearly enough in my life, but, you know, I have examples.
	But what differentiates what you just said from all of those people who are motivational speakers and other people like that?
	I'm not knocking them who just go on the stage or wherever, or they have small groups and they say, you can be the most amazing person that you can be.
	All you have to do is believe.
	And everybody goes, yes, yes, yes.
	Or these companies where people go to work and everybody stands up and goes, yeah, at the beginning of the day.
	What differentiates what you do from those things?
	Basically, who I am.
	I've been living a rather mystical life all these years.
	And so my experience is that these kinds of miraculous instant transformations and changes are occurring in daily life all the time.
	Because of my scientific background and just the thousands of these experiences that I've had and witnessed with others, I'm not just like everybody else because I am walking my talk to the degree that at a Thanksgiving when our dishwasher broke down, my sister said, can you do that thing you do?
	And my family is really a family of skeptics.
	I was raised by a father who's an atheist at first.
	Now he's an agnostic.
	My sister is very scientific.
	So I'm not surrounded by people who just think this is all great.
	They tend to think perhaps it is a bunch of hoo-eye.
	But when push comes to shove, she says, can you do that thing you do?
	And we've just witnessed a terrible, horrible noise from the dishwasher.
	It went clonk.
	I could smell a bit of smoke.
	I could see smoke.
	It was a terrible sound smell.
	It's doing what it had done on a previous holiday moment where it broke down before we had lots of dishes to do.
	So I laughed.
	I said, sure.
	I said, thanks for saying it that way so we can laugh about it.
	And I told her what I was going to do.
	I said, here's what I'm going to do.
	I'm going to open it up.
	And, you know, it wasn't working.
	We know that.
	But that's not acceptable.
	We know that this dishwasher needs to work.
	It needs to.
	So you were going to reason with it.
	No, I don't reason with it.
	I'm telling my sister, what's important about another observer, my sister is right there.
	Thank God she's laughing because then she's bubbling up with that kind of God, nature, oneness, joy, energy, whatever you want to call it.
	She is connected to that infinite level of source.
	Thank goodness, because she's laughing.
	She's not scowling at me.
	She's not angry.
	Like this dishwasher broke.
	You must fix it.
	No, no, no.
	She's laughing.
	Like, can you do that thing you do?
	Kind of hopefully and trembling and laughing a bit.
	And it made me laugh.
	That was perfect because that frees up the energy that we most of all need.
	And then we need to get detached.
	We need to recognize it's not really up to us.
	We're going to recognize there are possible realities where the dishwasher is working.
	I'm going to visualize one as I open it and close it, feel my love for it, know my need that it must work.
	And she shares that need.
	So we're in complete agreement on our love for it.
	I'm just telling her, let's love this dishwasher.
	Let's picture that it's going to run perfectly.
	Imagine that with me as I shut it, as I push the button, as it starts, as it runs.
	So that's just one of many, many, many times I've worked with skeptics to do this, but they have to be open-minded enough.
	See, here's the thing.
	If you're a skeptic and you're not only skeptical in the sense of an open-minded skeptic, but instead you're that closed-minded skeptic who actually believes like that's impossible, you know, there's a big difference right there.
	So the only people that can ever experience anything like this, they would have to be open-minded.
	If they're not, they're not going to see it.
	So when you hear from people.
	I'm not laughing in any way or dismissing what you're saying because I think I've seen something like this myself.
	People who know me, and I drive them mad, I love equipment.
	Since I've learned to do podcasts, I've been a radio broadcaster for years.
	But the idea of being able to do stuff myself and have control has meant that I've become a bit obsessional.
	And I am Mr. eBay buying equipment and learning about things.
	But I've bought things over the years and I've sort of known that they're going to come to me in a state that doesn't work.
	And I've just had this inner confidence that They're going to work and they do.
	I used to be a radio collector.
	That was my previous obsession.
	I bought radios.
	And I would sometimes buy them in an awful state, but I would know that with a bit of a clean.
	And if I thought hard at them, and now people are going to say, you're a nut too, who'll be saying to me about that.
	But I would buy these things and I would think very hard at them.
	And I would make them work.
	Now, that makes me sound like Uri Geller with his, you know, he's, I know Uri very well who says to people who've got clocks and watches at home, he would say, now I'm going to say on a counter three work.
	And I would get people phoning me up on the radio saying Uri Geller made my camera come back to life or made my grandfather's watch start again.
	Not everybody, of course not, but those things would happen.
	So I would not dismiss any of this.
	It's the power of infinite possibility.
	Yes.
	Sorry, I've done an awful lot of talking there.
	I just wanted to say that I understand what you're saying.
	Oh, it's so exciting.
	And my first issue of Reality Shifters was the October 1999 issue.
	So that was 20 years ago last month.
	And it features Uri Geller.
	And, you know, he came to San Francisco.
	I've got photos of him from 20 years ago.
	Yes.
	But in my childhood, back in the 1960s, some of the very first reality shifts I was doing on a regular basis without telling anyone, because I'd learned from noticing that I could start and stop rain and then pointing it out to my mother that as soon as I bring in another observer, it can kill the effect.
	So I stopped telling people.
	And instead, if the car wasn't starting, I would help it start.
	We had two televisions.
	When those were broken, I'm just a young girl in the 60s, but my father would be saying some expletives and swearing a little bit.
	I knew like, oh, this is bad.
	It's not going well.
	Let me just send it some love and picture the TV working.
	And then it would.
	So I got a lot of practice with the bizarre things that we had in the 1960s, slightly, you know, tricky technologies.
	But you know what I'm talking about.
	Yes, absolutely, that works.
	I do.
	You have to have...
	So all of these are like the old Dale Carnegie stuff.
	You know, it's all about belief.
	But I do think that a certain amount of belief, even in what appears to be an inanimate object, can have an impact.
	And I think science is beginning, little by little, bit by bit, to tell us that our thoughts and the way that we are can have an impact on things.
	Now, that is making me sound a very partial interviewer here, but it's just that I'd like to believe that.
	And sometimes in my own life, and I want to get back to you talking about the specific cases, but by thinking the right thoughts, not always, sometimes I get very depressed about everything and about the way people treat you in some of the places that I've worked and stuff like that.
	But I think it is possible, and I'm going to stop talking when I've said these few words, but I think it is possible by thinking the right way to change your life, heal it in some ways.
	So if that's what you're talking about, I'm right there with you, but I don't entirely understand it.
	Sorry, I'm talking, talking.
	I love it.
	Yeah, we absolutely can change our life.
	And I know it does earlier, you mentioned that so many life coaches say these things, and it does sound like they just want to make a fast pound or a euro or a dollar or whatever.
	They're just in it for the money.
	But you can tell that the real genuine article when you listen to someone and you're working with a coach or an author and they genuinely care about what's best for all concerned.
	And it's not just about short-term profits for themselves, but rather you can look for that kind of passion, which you clearly have.
	That's why I'm smiling and laughing at hearing you talk.
	I love it, because you are guided by the passion that it takes to share these ideas with the world, knowing full well that there are skeptics that walk among us who we love dearly.
	In my case, my own family members.
	And that's not a problem.
	They're all part of our human family, too.
	So I love the way you speak with respect, and I like to do that too.
	I think these are central, important qualities of doing exactly these things we're talking about doing.
	Well, like most people in this humanity in which we exist, I've had my shares of setbacks and horrible knocks and all the rest of it, probably more than many people.
	But fundamentally, I keep doing things that I don't think or the part of me would have thought in the past I couldn't do those things.
	And I keep finding out that, yes, I can, because I go into the situation believing that I can.
	It's a very, very strange thing.
	And I'm starting to talk like a new age manual, and I don't mean to.
	But I think the stuff that you're talking about, even though we may not fully understand it, is probably pretty important for the future if people can embrace it.
	It's the key to everything.
	And I think the reason I'm talking about this humility, which I didn't state out loud, but that's really what I'm talking about, is humility is important.
	Humbleness is important, even as we develop this awareness that we can create our day, we can create our world.
	Because there's this beautiful trade-off that needs to happen, this beautiful balance that must occur.
	So we do not trample others even as we are beginning to visualize and experience our own dream.
	So it must be collaborative.
	It must be.
	And that's why the humility matters.
	That's why some sense of reverence matters.
	Even if a person's an atheist, that's okay.
	Just have some sense of high principle.
	Whatever you most value, be very clear about it.
	Because without that, we can't have respect for one another, the earth, and everything.
	And we absolutely need that.
	Now, it would be nice, we talked about examples of people who've changed their lives, or maybe ways that you've done it for yourself.
	But, you know, those people that you've worked with, it would be nice, you don't have to give any names, to give me a couple of concrete examples, if you could, of people who've done That of which we have spoken?
	Yes.
	Some of the clients that I've worked with have found their soulmate just by visualizing and just having a couple of ladies who were both working with me individually.
	And we did guided meditations together and absolutely clearly saw exactly who they would be meeting, who would be the love of their lives.
	And this absolutely worked out completely well for them.
	In addition, I've worked with people who have had debilitating diseases and ailments that were considered incurable by Western medicine.
	And in some cases, those have completely gone into remission and just completely vanished.
	Although, of course, sometimes they call that the power of mind over matter.
	And sometimes physicians, when they diagnose, are not correct.
	And it's a gray area.
	But what is the difference between this?
	There was somebody called Bird Bel Moore, who was one of the very first people I interviewed when I started doing this podcast.
	And that was 2006.
	She wrote a book called The Cosmic Ordering Service.
	And sadly, Bird Bel died tragically young.
	She was so full of energy and life.
	And if you go back through my podcasts, I think she was on edition two, I think.
	And I absolutely, I was still learning how to do all of this stuff.
	I'm still learning every day.
	But she was a great character.
	And she wrote this book that became a bit of a manual for people.
	She became a bit of a guru, even if she didn't intend to, that said that you could basically ask the cosmos for what you want, and within reason, you'd get it.
	Is what we've been talking about the same as that?
	You could say so, yes.
	But the reason I keep coming back to divine source, oneness, God, high levels of what you're most reverent about, that is so important because we are in this together.
	This is no longer a planet where one of us can just willy-nilly get everything that they want without awareness that we're all connected.
	So that's why, to me, it's a very spiritual practice, and I definitely emphasize that.
	I'm not mandating what kind of spirituality a person must have, but I do strongly suggest that we rise above our own hubris, our own sense of I will get what I want, like King Midas, and then come to find out, whoops, everything I touch turns to gold, even my wife and my child.
	Because we've already done that with the planet.
	We've already seen where human hubris can lead.
	And this is now a golden opportunity to come together with a manifestation of community.
	And I think that's the importance of the Mandela effect and the fact that we're starting to see these changes collectively, that we're beginning to become capable of manifesting on a collective scale.
	And I think that's the next step forward for human growth.
	So are you saying that those who remember Nelson Mandela dying in prison and there being a different reality, that in fact it was such a horrendous thing that people changed that reality?
	And that's why we have the situation that we have now?
	To me, it's very logical.
	It makes sense to me.
	Quantum logical, not, of course, Boolean logical.
	So, yeah, it totally makes sense to me that, of course, we would want Nelson Mandela to have survived his ordeal in prison, to have gotten free from Robin Island, to have come forth and become president as he did.
	And thank goodness.
	I'm so grateful.
	Jane Goodall is another example that I clearly remember, and she's one that I'm grateful, very much, very, very grateful that she's alive now.
	But I remember quite clearly being very upset when I heard that she had died within about a month of the other great primate researcher, Diane Fossey, having been murdered.
	And what I recall is that the news reports had showed that Jane Goodall had also been murdered.
	Like I said, just within a month or two, right after Diane Fossey.
	And that's where I felt this rising emotion coming up within me and just this feeling of, no, that's unacceptable.
	That can't be happening.
	We can't lose Jane Goodall.
	She's too important.
	And I hadn't thought much about it until many, many, many years later.
	I was stunned to hear that Jane Goodall was on tour, that she'd written a book.
	And I actually saw her come to Berkeley, California, where I live, just a few years ago.
	So that's another one like Nelson Mandela, who I'm really grateful is still with us.
	So yes, our thoughts definitely make a difference.
	I don't know whose thoughts or when, but I know that collectively we can.
	And those things are not just misrememberings.
	For me, I know it's not misremembering.
	And I've heard from many other people because I've done surveys on these alive again celebrities.
	The first one that I conducted was around 2004, 2005 through my Reality Shifters website.
	And I've published those results in the newsletter, which all are archived online.
	And some of the top people that we remembered at that time were Jane Goodall, of course, and some American celebrities that might not mean much to other people.
	Often, these alive again celebrities are very localized.
	So in Denmark, they might have a Danish TV star.
	In Africa, they wouldn't necessarily have Nelson Mandela, but there would be someone that they're peripherally aware of.
	Because there is something called the quantum Zeno effect where we tend to, you can think of it like the watched pot never boils.
	And the quantum Zeno effect is very real.
	It means that you can lock a quantum system into a quantum state by ceaseless observation.
	So if you are obsessive-compulsive, for example, you can just constantly, constantly, every, every, every day, every few minutes, check on a celebrity that you care deeply about, make sure they're still there.
	I'm not recommending we do that, but I am saying that to some degree, this is having an effect on our collective reality as well.
	So what that does is it makes it a little bit trickier for medical professionals, for example, to notice some of the physiological Mandela effects that have occurred, such as the kidneys now being in a safer place in our bodies.
	So that if you get punched by what boxers used to call a kidney punch, I think they still call it that.
	The kidneys aren't there.
	The kidneys have moved.
	Every single human on earth, like 8 billion of us, our kidneys are now a couple inches higher than they used to be.
	These are the level of Mandela effects I'm talking about.
	And that's why I say that collectively we can change the world.
	That's an astonishing thing to say.
	I mean, it's a very, very strange thing, but actually, I'm sort of aware of that.
	And it's bizarre that I'm saying this.
	But maybe there'll be people who email me who say that they also have that feeling.
	So life is a strange thing, and reality as we know it is not reality as we know it.
	And I think a lot of us are coming to understand that.
	And it's an imprecise, I can't even call it a science.
	It's an art and a science together.
	So what are you working on at the moment then, Cynthia?
	I'm getting ready to present as the keynote speaker at the first West Coast Mandela Effect Conference, which will be happening next weekend, November 8th through the 10th, in Ketchum, Idaho.
	And we will be videotaping the entire conference.
	So I hope that all of the speakers' talks will be made available at some point online, free for everybody to watch.
	We do want this to be available to the world.
	It's extremely important at this time.
	The Mandela effect is much more significant than most people realize.
	So we'll be, myself and five others.
	We have four other speakers.
	One of them is the quantum businessman, Christopher Anatra.
	And he's the CEO of a company that distributes food across the United States of America, and I think maybe Canada as well.
	And he's experienced the Mandela effect.
	He's noticed foods changing their names, their spellings, and the computer systems that he has his customers working with.
	They have noticed anomalies in their databases.
	And so he's already spoken extensively about that on YouTube.
	You can look him up, Chris Anatra, the quantum businessman.
	Foods changing their name.
	I mean, look, we had a bar, a chocolate bar here in the UK that for marketing reasons, it was called Marathon.
	And in America, it was called Snickers.
	So they changed the name to Snickers.
	But that wasn't the Mandela effect.
	That was marketing.
	Right.
	Again, you always go to Occam's Razor first.
	And so if you can find a marketing change or some other explanation, go with that.
	But then if you can't, and if you recognize, wow, thousands of us around the world are noticing that Kit Kat Candy Bar used to have a hyphen in its name and now it's gone.
	But we remember the hyphen.
	That's rather significant.
	And that does not appear to be attributable to some marketing change.
	Hang on, though.
	Does that mean that you can look back through, you can go back to old photographs?
	I need to do this.
	Photographs of Kit Kat.
	And I do remember the hyphen.
	Are you saying that the old photographs from 50 years ago won't show the hyphen?
	That's right.
	The only place you're likely to see it would be if you had done some artwork, like maybe you had sketched a Kit Kat bar, and then you might find your art and notice bizarrely there's a hyphen, even though the rappers at that time did not have it.
	That would be pretty much the only place you'd see it.
	I remember the hyphen.
	I do.
	I remember the hyphen.
	Yes.
	I know.
	I know.
	It had one.
	So the meant.
	Well, this is really, really, really weird.
	So the premise of this, and I do realize for some of my listeners, this is going to be a more out there conversation than we've had for a very long time.
	And we've strayed into areas I didn't think we were going to go to, but to think that there may be limitless possibility, it's nice to dream and to think about those things, surely to goodness, because so many things are wrong in our lives and this world.
	The thought that we might be able to change them.
	But then equally, we didn't change World War II, did we?
	We weren't able to.
	I mean, in the end, Hitler lost and the world thanked if people believed in God or whatever they believed in.
	You know, the world thanked everything that Hitler went.
	But nevertheless, there was a World War II and millions of people died.
	It wasn't possible to change that reality.
	Right.
	Well, I mean, there are people noticing some changes associated with that, which that would be bigger than this particular show.
	But I'm sure that we'll be hearing much more about that.
	Christopher Anatra, that I mentioned, is very involved with some of that.
	And, you know, obviously keeping things in the side of the good.
	As you know, that was a war that could have gone either way.
	And it seems, well, let's not get into it.
	It's too interesting.
	Is the rule that the good guys always win?
	In the end, life is a long game.
	And from my own experience, you may lose in the short term, but generally, if you stick at something, you're going to win in the long term.
	So is the rule that good usually transcends evil?
	I would say first start by checking your belief set.
	I told you mine.
	I believe in God.
	I believe in this philosopher named Nicholas Rescher with Axiogenesis, who basically writes a treatise showing this wonderful work that shows, yes, to answer your question, you can expect things will keep going in a good direction.
	Having said that, people that don't believe that will likely experience whatever it is they believe.
	So I do strongly suggest, you know, if you don't currently believe in high ideals and high principles, please start considering that it might be worth your while to do so.
	You know, raise your standards for what you consider to be the best possible outcome for all concerned.
	You know, even if you don't like thinking about such things, put it out there as just an idea.
	Why not?
	Why not ask how good can it get?
	I do recommend that.
	This conversation has had two glitches technically in it, which by the time my listener hears it, hopefully I'll have been able to iron them out.
	That hasn't happened before in that way, and yet we were both thinking positively about this conversation.
	Why did that happen?
	Okay.
	I am pretty much every day I experience these reality shifts I speak about.
	I constantly am walking in two worlds.
	So I'm the most likely person besides Uri Geller himself for you to witness these kinds of aberrations around.
	And I've gotten package delivery messages from an automated UPS system with like five or six different reports.
	And I know, like, well, there I go again.
	So, you know, I need to be a little pin it down a little bit more and not be floating in the realm of possibility quite so much.
	Boy, well, it's been quite a conversation.
	I know that my listener will be assimilating this and will let me know what he or she thought about it.
	But thank you very much.
	We've taken a walk on the wild side, I think, this time around.
	And sometimes I don't think that's a bad thing to just think expansively.
	So I hope my listener, who perhaps is a little incredulous about all of this, will bear with me and bear with us, Cynthia, for the conversation that we've just had.
	If people want to look at your work and you've got a very good website, where do they go?
	The website is reality shifters.com.
	And that would give you the website connections for my monthly newsletter, links to the YouTube channel.
	Should be able to, if you subscribe to the newsletter, then you'll see each time I have a new podcast, Living the Quantum Dream, and hear about my books, articles, events, and so forth.
	Okay.
	Cynthia Sue Larson, thank you very much.
	Thank you so much.
	And you've been listening to Cynthia Sue Larson.
	Your thoughts on her or any guest who's appeared on The Unexplained, always welcome.
	Go to my website, theunexplained.tv.
	And I realize that we haven't had a conversation quite like that for a while.
	And to some extent, I don't think we've ever had a conversation like that.
	But if you think about it, there was a song a long time ago by the brand new Heavies called You Are the Universe.
	And the premise of the song was, if you can conceive it, you can achieve it.
	And I've always kind of half believed, more than half believed, 90%, 85% believed, pick your figure, that that is so.
	That we can fix things that appear to be insoluble.
	It's a wonderful thing, and I think it needs a lot more research and a lot more belief.
	But just imagine if it was a world that you could change like that.
	You would be standing on the frontiers of making a better world and a better existence for each and every one of us.
	I'm not saying it is so.
	I never say that anything that we talk about here is absolutely so because we just don't know.
	And that is the realm within which on the unexplained we exist.
	And that's why it makes doing this so fascinating, I think.
	More great guests in the pipeline here.
	Your thoughts always welcome.
	Go to my website, theunexplained.tv, send me an email from there.
	And if you can send me an email, please tell me who you are, whereabouts in the world you are, and how you use this show.
	And looking forward very much to hearing from more of my listeners in North America.
	As I say, the email has shifted a bit.
	Lots and lots of email from the UK and Europe.
	America sliding slightly in the email, but I know that you're getting involved with my Facebook page, The Unexplained with Howard Hughes.
	But please let me know that you're there and let me know what you want, and we will deliver.
	Thank you very much for being part of this.
	My name is Howard Hughes.
	This has been The Unexplained Online.
	And until next we meet here, please stay safe.
	Please stay calm.
	And above all, please stay in touch.
	Thank you very much.
	Take care.

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