Knowledge Fight Interactive Search Tool

Dec. 24, 2018 - The Unexplained - Howard Hughes

01:23:40

Edition 375 - Jeremy Corbell & Paul Sinclair

Jeremy Corbell on the Bob Lazar documentary - plus a special update from ace-researcher Paul Sinclair... Author of the "Truth Proof" books...

Large

Audio Only |

Scroll

Time	Text
	Across the UK, across continental North America, and around the world on the internet, by webcast and by podcast.
	My name is Howard Hughes, and this is The Unexplained.
	Well, we're pretty much at the end of 2018.
	You may be hearing this either side of Christmas.
	It's being recorded just before, but you know, I hope you have a wonderful Christmas if you haven't had it yet.
	And if you have had it, then I hope you really enjoyed it.
	And I send you my very, very best wishes for 2019.
	Thank you for supporting me through what will be in 2019 15 years of the unexplained.
	13 years as a podcast, a couple of years on the radio at the beginning, and three years on talk radio in the UK now.
	So that's a pretty good track record, I think, for something that I devised and started myself.
	What a year 2018 has been, though, hasn't it?
	We lost Art Bell this year, and I have to say that I still feel like my compass has gone.
	He was my guide, and the thought that Art Bell was always there, his archives, of course, will always be there, but the thought that he was always there gave me a benchmark.
	And I think there are lots of shows out there now, but all of us, I think, have lost our compass.
	There's nothing to go back and reference it all to.
	You know, there isn't a standard anymore.
	So who knows what will happen in 2019?
	Fascinating times, but wherever you are, Art Bell, who knows, maybe you can even hear these words now.
	I was lucky enough to get to know you, wasn't I, in your lifetime and speak to you a few times.
	And you liked my shows, which was very humbling.
	But I hope you're happy and we miss you, I think is all I can say.
	Lots of things happened in my life.
	I'm going to have to be making some decisions about it, I think, in the new year because I need to be trying to make more money from my life.
	Otherwise, I'm going to have a problem.
	But I continue to love all of my work.
	And indeed, over the holiday period, I'm doing some work to make some money on radio.
	Not unexplained shows, but other kinds of things that I'll be doing to try and see myself into 2019.
	This show, though, continues online.
	And I know it's delayed, but look out for the new website.
	It will be coming in 2019.
	So a little delayed, but it's out there in the pipeline.
	Okay, this edition, two items recorded here, and they've been used also, but not in the same form on the radio.
	Let me explain.
	Number one is to do with Bob Lazar, Area 51, the new documentary about Bob Lazar made by Jeremy Corbel.
	We'll catch up with him first.
	That was broadcast on the radio, but I wanted it to be here.
	And remember, the radio material, very little of it I put on the website, but all of it is just erased after a period.
	So unless I preserve some of the material here from the radio show, then it will just go away forever.
	And that's a shame.
	So Jeremy Corbell talking about his Bob Lazar documentary, which is doing fantastically well in the US and around the world now.
	That's first.
	Then after that, an extended conversation.
	So a version of the conversation will be heard on the radio, but this is a longer version with a man who is one of our best guests.
	Paul Sinclair, the man from the Truth Proof books, is now famous in America, but did his first interview with me here on The Unexplained.
	So I'm really pleased and proud for Paul Sinclair for what he's achieved.
	An update, and there's plenty to say about Truth Proof and his research in an area of high strangeness in Yorkshire, in the UK, north of England.
	So those are the two things you're hearing on this edition of the show.
	If you want to get in touch with me, then please do go to the website designed and created by Adam Cornwell from Creative Hotspot in Liverpool.
	Adam, thank you for your hard work during the year.
	You can email me through the website theunexplained.tv.
	And if you'd like to make a donation towards this, then you can do that on the website too.
	Theunexplained.tv.
	Please register a hit on the website.
	Let's get to it.
	First of all, we'll talk to Jeremy Corbell.
	After that, an extended conversation with Paul Sinclair.
	But first, like I say, we're going to be talking about Bob Lazar, the documentary about him and the revelations in it with Jeremy Corbell.
	Thanks for having me on again, Howard.
	And congratulations, if I may say so, on having one of the world's most successful, if not the world's most successful at the moment, documentary.
	You must be very pleased.
	It's absolutely wild.
	The appetite for this film has been outrageous.
	I mean, it's incredible.
	Number one in all documentary charts across the world.
	We're now battling number one and two, but we have a secret weapon coming, man.
	We're going to be back to number one in two seconds.
	Is that about Bob Lazar?
	Is that something else you're doing?
	Yeah, no, this is the Bob Lazar film, Bob Lazar Area 51 and Flying Saucers.
	It just took over the charts globally.
	It's crazy.
	It's wild.
	Well, that's great.
	And I'm sure, and I'm certain, there is always appetite for this.
	Bob Lazar is a man who was very prominent probably 15 years or more ago when he first started to come out on the old Art Bell shows across the United States, talking about having worked at Area 51.
	Of course, he used to take a lot of calls on air, people saying, I don't believe this guy, and other people saying, I think I knew him there.
	We used to get the bus into Area 51 together.
	He was a controversy machine.
	We say controversy.
	I know you say controversy machine.
	But fascinating.
	And a man that I made it my business to try to get to interview.
	And I've been trying, like most of the rest of the world, to interview this man for the last 15 years or so.
	But you did it.
	And you did a documentary with him.
	And I don't know whether you're drip feeding stories from the documentary to the media and they're coming out or whether the media is just slowly picking them up.
	But every couple of days here, we get a, I mean, it's a great way of doing publicity, if I may say so.
	But every couple of days, we get another story that comes out of what Bob Lazar has said and your documentary.
	So, you know, congratulations again on the handling of the publicity for this.
	Dickie, it's a very natural process.
	As people start to absorb what's in my film, they pick up on different parts of it and then propagate the story more and more and more.
	And just to be clear, it was almost 30 years ago when Bob Lazar came forward on the news, KLAS, Las Vegas, with my mentor in journalism, George Knapp, And they told the basics of Bob's story so Bob would be protected because at the time he was worried about what was going on.
	He was a liability to the United States military.
	It was almost 30 years ago.
	But his story has not gone away, even though he's been pretty quiet about it since then.
	Has his story changed in that time?
	Not even by a single word.
	That's what's so wild.
	He's never sought publicity.
	He's never sought to try to make a fortune off of his story.
	He told his story, got it out.
	But in the lens of 30 years, as you'll see in my film, there is a whole lot of new information that does, in fact, verify a lot of what he said.
	Are you paying him?
	No, absolutely not.
	I offered to pay him.
	I mean, look, I spent two years of my life living with him for weeks at a time.
	He is the subject of the film.
	He is getting zero for the movie.
	He did it because he feels that you have a right to hear his story, but not the way it's being told by other people.
	It's being twisted and disemboweled, and it has been for 30 years.
	So now we're setting the record straight.
	But it has to be said, if Bob Lazar had been a little more proactive himself in accepting interview requests, this makes me sound very bitter for people like me, then this story would have been out there.
	And a lot of the disinformation, a lot of the dissing of this man that he claims he's suffered, would not have happened, would it?
	If he'd made himself more available before now, it's great that he's on your documentary, he wouldn't have had to suffer.
	Right.
	But, you know, look, you have to see it from his perspective.
	The UFO topic has done nothing good for him.
	Every time he brought his head up, George Knapp would pull him out for like a couple minutes here or there.
	You know, he would be cut down every time.
	The UFO world has done nothing good for him.
	I would have done the same thing, making yourself available in this way.
	Look, he said, I said it 30 years ago.
	I thought I set the record straight.
	And it just, you have to understand from a human perspective, he loves his life.
	He's not a UFO guy.
	He had an extraordinary experience.
	He didn't seek it out.
	And it caused so much disruption in his life.
	I don't blame him for not putting himself forward for 30 years.
	Okay, two quick questions.
	And I wonder if it's possible to answer them in one answer.
	What does he say he did at Area 51 and what is he doing now?
	Right.
	So I'll answer those two questions.
	He never worked at Area 51.
	He would fly into Area 51, and there's a sub-base of Area 51 about 17 miles south of Groom Lake, which is Area 51, at a dry lake called Papoose Lake.
	That's where they held all the non-terrestrial or alien technology.
	His job was to work on the power and propulsion system and try to use Earthly materials to replicate these alien flying saucers.
	One in particular that he dubbed the sports model.
	That's what he was tasked for doing for the United States military.
	That's what he claimed back in 1989.
	Now he runs a scientific consulting and supply business called unitednuclear.com.
	And that's where he, that's what he does now as a scientist.
	When he worked there, he says, and did all of this, did he sign documents to keep him seek, to keep him quiet?
	Did he sign confidentiality agreements?
	Absolutely, he did.
	He signed all confidentiality agreements.
	He was also threatened from day one that if he talked, that he would be eliminated.
	However, you know, what happened to him pushed him to the brink where he was so afraid for himself, his safety, and his family, his wife at the time.
	You know, it was a choice.
	He was on a razor's edge.
	It was a choice.
	Come out and say it, and then they have nothing else on me or sit back and be fearful for the rest of my life.
	And he was being threatened.
	You might not believe it, but it's true.
	They were tapping the phone lines at KLAS news.
	Now we all take that for granted.
	We know that all of our communications go to a supercomputer in Utah, right?
	But back then, it wasn't the case.
	So he was being threatened.
	He was being attacked.
	He was being terrorized.
	And he came forward to save his own skin.
	So by going public and by doing this documentary, he thinks he's not going to get a bullet in him or he's not going to disappear.
	Well, that was a long time ago in 1989.
	That was the original reason for coming forward.
	This movie, the way I convinced him, I said, look, there's so much fake news out there about you.
	There's so much total disambiguation with what it is that you actually said and did.
	Let's clear it up.
	There's two new generations of people that were born since you came out with your story, and they don't know your story, and they're hearing it from third-party sources who are lying.
	So let's just get it out right now.
	And we thought everything would be okay.
	We thought nobody cared what he said.
	We thought he wasn't being monitored.
	And if you've watched my film, you quickly find out that is not the case.
	Dramatic events unfolded during this film.
	Who do you think is monitoring him now?
	And how are they doing it?
	Well, we know for sure that there was a FBI raid during my film, although it was a multi-agency raid.
	And you actually see that unfold in my film.
	And how they're doing the monitoring, I don't know.
	Again, a very dramatic event occurred where they reported back to him our conversation that we thought was private.
	We took measures for it to be private.
	So we have some theories and I have some federal officers who told me how it could happen.
	But yeah, it's pretty unnerving.
	Okay, now you know the criticism of Bob Lazar over the years.
	Number one, all of them.
	That he never worked at the places he said he worked at.
	Number two, they say this man is a fantasist and this man has made it all up.
	What is the convincer or what are the convincers in your documentary?
	There are so many and you have to watch the documentary to fully grasp them.
	But you know, let's start with this.
	When George Knapp was investigating the background of Babazar, he was never able to prove his education that Babazar claimed.
	However, he was able to talk with people who actually dropped him off at school.
	So now we have a conflict.
	But the big one, the real big one, is Los Alamos National Laboratory.
	30 years ago, they denied his existence.
	He never worked there.
	George Knapp then found him on the cover of the Los Alamos Monitor, which is a local paper.
	Los Alamos is, by the way, a very top security facility here in America.
	Then he also found his name in the phone book.
	So he was able then to go with Bob Lazar to the Maison Particle Accelerator, where Bob worked.
	We've talked to people that worked with him.
	And I found a witness a few years ago that confirmed he was in security griefings with Bob Lazar, the physicist, and he knew him.
	We are far beyond those criticisms.
	Bob Lazar was a physicist at Los Alamos at the Maison Particle Accelerator.
	That for sure is true.
	And from there, he got picked up to work at the base.
	Additionally, once he started working at the base, there were people who we know, George Knapp, knew worked there, and they put him through the paces, not only polygraph tests, and he aced all four polygraph tests, but additionally, people that were there when he got dropped off at the base where he'd take the bus, he knew everything about the base.
	But here's the clincher.
	He knew three times at the exact location, the exact time that something that looked identical to a flying saucer would come up and outmaneuver anything that we have in our arsenal.
	And he showed people that.
	He showed it to them, not over Groom Lake, not over Area 51, but as a base that nobody had heard of, S4.
	In fact, Bob was the first person ever to acknowledge a base called S4.
	And it goes on and on.
	Well, that's on.
	Technology may be being created there, but the thing that's hard to prove, isn't it, that it comes from back-engineered alien technology, which has always been the claim.
	Well, we can't prove definitively Bob Lazar's story to everybody's satisfaction, but it's death by a thousand cuts, man.
	Because look, we have craft that have incredible capabilities, but we do not have anti-gravitic craft, craft that distort space-time, craft that can move without the opposition of inertia.
	And that is what is reported.
	That is what is seen.
	So there are so many things that have come out for now that do show us that these craft are not from here.
	And to give you an example, December 2017, New York Times Pentagon released two videos.
	They told you we're not alone.
	They told you these are non-terrestrial or alien craft.
	And my friend, Commander David Fraver, because I broke that story twice before the New York Times, Commander Fraver, the 2004 Nimitz UFO encounter.
	This is a craft with no known traditional propulsion, no tail numbers, no rotors, no plumes of exhaust.
	This thing could maneuver and outmaneuver anything we have in the American arsenal.
	And they told you about it.
	It's called ATIP, Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program.
	And if you don't know it, it's because you're behind the times, man.
	Not you, but the audience.
	They need to get caught up.
	Well, there's somebody else I'd like to interview on my program.
	That's Luis Elizondo, the man who ran that particular program, ATIP, that we've talked about a thousand times on this show.
	One of the things I think you say is a clinching piece of information is, now tell me if I got this right.
	There was a piece of high-security entry software or Gizmo or something that Bob Lazard described was a way to get into Area 51 or the high-security areas.
	And you say that you've been able to prove that that technology, that entry technology, Gizmo, whatever it was, exists.
	So you say that that proves that he was telling the truth?
	No, I say that that is one of the thousand cuts that show us that he was right 30 years later.
	It's called the Identity Mat.
	Now, this thing was not public.
	This was classified, right?
	And all of a sudden, I was able to get some images from a friend of mine who's a journalist of these devices.
	And it is exactly like Bob Lazar described.
	So this is something that he talked about for 30 years.
	And everybody thought he was lying.
	There's nothing like it.
	You know, there are references to this kind of thing in popular culture.
	But for me, it was just one of the many things when I found those photos.
	Wow.
	Yeah, it was declassified.
	And they did use those at that time at the Nellis range.
	So it's just another thing that Bob said.
	To him, it's no big deal.
	He's like, yeah, man, look, you know, gravity is a wave now.
	We know that.
	I did say that back then.
	He goes, but Jeremy, I had a 50-50 chance if you think about it.
	He's highly unimpressed with most of what I bring him to prove, you know, or disprove, you know, his story.
	But this, to me, was a big deal.
	Okay, the story that we were going to talk about, the reason we're having this conversation, is something that appeared in the papers over here during this last week.
	The U.S. government says the Daily Express here is running tests on the remains of aliens, according to what the newspaper calls outrageous claims from a man who says he worked at the top secret Area 51 base, running tests on the remains of aliens.
	Talk to me about that.
	Yeah, that's a little bit of a strange way to say it, but here's where it came from.
	So when Bob Lazar was working on the power and propulsion in a project called Project Galileo, that was the project for power and propulsion.
	There were other projects with alien technology.
	Another one is Project Sidekick, which was about the weaponization of this technology, gravity amplification.
	And another one is Project Looking Glass, and this was looking at the minute time discrepancies that are caused by gravity wave amplification.
	So when he was there, he was reading briefings.
	They let him read briefings on a few other programs.
	One of those briefings, he was shown photographs of a vivisection alien body and where the organs had kind of almost as if they've grown together into a single organ.
	So he saw this in a briefing.
	Now, Bob will be very clear.
	He goes, I don't know if everything I read or saw was true in writing.
	I know the power and propulsion was real because I touched it.
	I dismantled it.
	I had my hands on it.
	However, the U.S. government, if not other governments, do have bodies, bodies of non-humans.
	And these were photos of one of those bodies or two of those bodies being dissected.
	And they're looking at the organs.
	And that's about as far as it went for him.
	He just got to read the briefings and see what was reported.
	And he kind of absorbed it.
	And they were kind of acclimating him to the idea that what he was about to step into, the craft he was about to walk into, which he did, was not from here.
	But he said he didn't need it because the second he walked in that craft, he said it felt ominous.
	The seats were too small for modern day human men.
	Everything in that craft was, for lack of a better term, alien.
	Everything was the same color.
	It was a technology not from here.
	Last question for now.
	We'll continue our conversations, Jeremy, because you know I always enjoy them in 2019.
	Why is there only one Bob Lazar?
	Other people work there.
	Why aren't we hearing from them?
	Right.
	There were 22 people in the program that he was in.
	Only 22 people.
	There's not only one Bob Lazar.
	There's a lot of fake Bab Lazars.
	But remember, right after this story came out, to investigative journalist George Knapp, award-winning 28 Emmys, two Peabody's Howard Murrow Awards.
	I mean, the guys like renowned journalists who you know, six people came forward to him right after this came out to help back up the Babazar story.
	Every single one of them were threatened to their lives.
	His phone was tapped at KLS, the news station.
	And to this day, none of them will talk to George Knapp.
	So look, it's really easy to silence somebody.
	All you got to do is threaten them with something that is horrific.
	And that is what happened to all those other witnesses.
	Now, people come for it all the time, but that doesn't mean they're telling the truth.
	With Bob Lazar, we know after 30 years, we can verify a lot of what he said.
	Do you feel at any risk?
	No, not at all.
	I've only been assisted, never resisted.
	There's no cloak and dagger thing here.
	I'm an open journalist.
	I say it as I see it.
	No, I feel no risk at this time at all.
	And what next for Bob Lazar?
	You know, he wants to go back to his normal life.
	He wants to run United Nuclear.
	He wants to be with his wife, his animals, his family, his friends.
	I had to pull him out to get him on Larry King.
	That was like unbelievable that I got him to do that.
	So, no, he wants to go back to his normal life, run his scientific consulting and supply company.
	That's it.
	I hope he'll come with me to a few of the theatrical premieres that I'm doing because when he answers questions, the audience loves it.
	Please ask him to answer some questions from me.
	I'm very nice.
	I don't bite.
	And he needs to do an interview like this one in the United Kingdom, I think, for European consumption and for people all over the world who hear this.
	But I'll leave that with you then, Jeremy.
	Yeah, I don't disagree with you.
	And I will always put that forward, but I really appreciate your integrity and the way that you inform your audience about these things.
	They're important, and it's up to everybody else to make their decision on what reality is.
	Otherwise, somebody else is going to decide that for you.
	Listen, the Bob Lazar critics have been holding the microphone for over almost 30 years now.
	We took the mic back with this movie, and we're not letting go.
	You're going to hear a lot more about Bob Lazar.
	Jeremy, thank you very much, and happy holidays.
	And we'll be catching up with Jeremy Corbell as well in the new year here on The Unexplained, so we are going to be busy, so Z. Coming next, Paul Sinclair, an extended conversation.
	So this is longer than the one that was broadcast on the radio recorded here.
	We're going to be talking about his ongoing research, which has gone into the proofbooks, and now we'll be going into a new documentary.
	So here's my conversation with Paul Sinclair.
	Paul, thank you very much for coming on the show again, and especially because it's Christmas and everybody's got other things to do.
	So thank you for making time for me.
	Well, you're most welcome, Howard, and it's a pleasure to be on the show again.
	I always look forward to it when I get a call asking me if I would like to talk.
	Well, you know, I'm very proud of you, Paul, because you did your first broadcast style interview with me a couple of years ago when you got the first truth-proof book out.
	And I don't think you thought then that you were up to it.
	You were very, very worried about it, as people are.
	You know, we all are when we start doing these things.
	And I'm now delighted to know that you're doing the big American shows like Coast to Coast AM.
	So, you know, fair play to you.
	Well done.
	Well, thank you.
	You know, I'm most appreciative.
	You know, I've got some brilliant people that have helped me, such as yourself and, you know, other radio shows.
	But like you said, you were the first one that I spoke on, Howard.
	And loads of appreciation because for having the patience, basically, you know, one of the people.
	It's all about spotting quality people.
	And there's no doubt about it, Paul.
	You know, no one has ever been in touch with me and said, you know, I think Paul is a terrible guest.
	They're all in awe of your ability to research and your ability to explain your research.
	So this is fantastic.
	Now, for new listeners, talking about your research and the truth-proof books, this is all an area, as I dubbed it, of high strangeness.
	And that area is part of the old East Riding of Yorkshire, isn't it?
	So if you can imagine the north of England, as they call it, the spine of the Pennines down the middle, and then you've got two coasts.
	Left-hand coast is the one that I was born on.
	That's Liverpool, the west coast, northwest coast.
	And then you go east, and you go towards Yorkshire and Hull and Grimsby and up towards places like Filey and Scarborough.
	And those kind of areas, Filey, Scarborough and around there, and then a kind of arc around there is the area that we're talking about here.
	It is, Howard.
	You know, and it never stops giving.
	You know, I'm actually surprised myself with the amount of information that I keep getting.
	I make notes and sometimes I've got people to catch up with months and months in advance.
	I mean, I sent you an email, well, recently, a few hours ago, that I received this morning.
	Quite incredible.
	Well, that's part of the international pull that you've now got.
	I mean, I've scanned through this email.
	I've literally just come in from work before doing this.
	But, you know, it's as people like to send me information about themselves and their stories because they get to know you over time.
	So they've got to know you.
	This particular person whose name we won't give, but has sat on a story that I'll let you tell that is amazing, but has sat on this story for nearly 40 years.
	Yeah, incredible, Howard.
	You know, and as I say, we've only got the bare bones of it.
	So at some point, we may expand on this because I will make great efforts to speak to this man now.
	But he was 15 years old at the time.
	And we're going back to August 1980, stroke 81.
	That's as sort of accurate as he can be.
	As we all know, a 15-year-old boy's probably not wrote the date down.
	But he was on holiday with his parents in a caravan.
	I think it was Reeton Sands.
	And I think his brother, who was several years older, probably six years older, five or six years, used to enjoy camping on the beach.
	They'd sort of go down the ravine from Reeton and walk towards Speaton and light a fire and camp.
	Well, this particular holiday was on his own with his mum and dad and he asked if he could do it.
	After much protesting, he got his own way and was allowed to go and do a bit of, I don't know, night camping on the beach.
	I wouldn't have thought it were going to be all night at 15 years old, but this is what this email is telling me.
	And you've got the email as well now, Howard.
	So he lit a fire.
	I think he said it was approximately 11 p.m.
	And he's walking down from Reeton, down the ravine, down the wooded area at the side of a stream.
	Strange, innit, that streams seem to feature in a lot of these unexplained reports.
	So I don't know why, why that is, but there's always a stream, but maybe there's streams everywhere.
	Well, no, no, I think you're right.
	But anyway, carry on.
	He carried on walking along the beach and stopped just before the huge chalk cliffs of Speaton.
	At their ice point there, they will be about 400 feet.
	So the tide was out.
	The waves weren't crashing or anything.
	It was a very, very quiet night.
	And he's doing his own thing.
	And he just sort of looked towards Speaton and noticed an illuminated disc about 150 foot up the cliff face.
	However, very close to the cliff face.
	And it sounds adamant in the correspondence I've just got that this was no helicopter.
	It was totally silent and he estimated it to be about quarter of a mile away.
	Well, believe me, we can see helicopters out over the sea from Benton and Speaton on the horizon and we can hear on a quiet night, we can hear the thump of their engine.
	He's talking quarter of a mile away.
	So I think he's being pretty honest in what he's saying.
	And he's very specific.
	I'm looking at the email here.
	I'm very specific in the description.
	As I say, we can't give his name.
	But he said that he looked out and saw about 150 feet off the ground a disk of white light about a quarter of a mile from me.
	It was close to the face of the cliffs there.
	He wasn't scared, just didn't know what it was.
	It wasn't moving.
	It just hung in the same position.
	Not a blinding light.
	You could easily look at it.
	It was the kind of light that you see when you look at the full moon, which is really descriptive.
	Very descriptive.
	And there's another interesting part to that message as well, that he said it didn't illuminate the cliff.
	You know, and this is something we spoke about before, Howard, with these lights that are seen off the coast and Coast Guard have told me.
	They're not illuminating an area of the sky as a flare would do.
	And we've got a similar remark passed by this gentleman here of his sighting, like you've said, of almost 40 years ago.
	It didn't light up the cliff.
	He said it was almost like moonlight, looking at the moon.
	Well, we all know that the moon on a bright night illuminates the land, but this thing didn't.
	So what mechanisms are at work here?
	Incredible sighting.
	So he said he watched it for about a minute or so.
	I should imagine quite perplexed.
	And then he suddenly realized that it was moving, slowly moving towards him.
	And overwhelming fear came over him at that point.
	And who can say?
	He said he turned and began to run along the beach.
	He said there was no point in trying to run up the ravine and along the stream.
	He said he just wouldn't have made it.
	And he's running.
	And at one point, he looked back and this thing's still there.
	I wouldn't say still traveling towards him because the message doesn't say that.
	This thing is still there.
	It must have been travelling because that's what initially got him running along the beach.
	At one point he hid, hid behind a clear cliff.
	I haven't got that information in front of me, but I can remember it.
	And he expected it to just slowly approach and he would have been exposed.
	And then he began to run again.
	When he reached the dirt path that would have led to the caravans where his parents were staying, he looked back and it had gone.
	But this is 38 years ago.
	And these reports, Howard, these are the reason that I've got the truth-proof books are being written because I never stop getting information like this.
	And this particular report, even though the person sat on it for 38 years, is typical of many other reports that have come to you, not only from people who live locally, but also trawler crews and other people passing through the area.
	Oh, absolutely.
	I mean, this is 1980, and in 1980, I did get reports from fishermen who said they'd seen spheres of lights on the cliff face.
	And I would have loved this report when I wrote Truth Proof 1, because in December of 1980, a tornado crashed off Bempton, Flamborough and Speaton, 10 miles out.
	I'm not attributing the lights to the crash of the tornado, but the spheres of light were being seen around the same time.
	And this report would have been a massive addition.
	You know, without any definite proof, we can't link one to the other.
	But it's strange that these things are being seen.
	And I don't know if I touched on it when we spoke about this particular aircraft crash probably a few years ago, but I obtained the Board of Inquiry report under Freedom of Information Act.
	And one part of the report talks about some buccaneer pilots who were also in the air at the time the tornado crashed seeing lights pass down their port side that couldn't have been the tornado that crashed because they got a visual on the tornado or they previously had and it was it wasn't in that position.
	You'll have to forgive me for not saying it wasn't in there seven o'clock because I don't have that information at hand.
	However, the Board of Inquiry report considered that those lights were nocturnal nighttime illusions.
	There's a train.
	Illusions is a weird word to use, isn't it?
	Yeah, yeah.
	I mean, it's a sweeping statement that's just brushed aside the fact that they'd seen These qualified pilots had seen lights pass down their port side that couldn't have been the stricken, you know, the aircraft that crashed.
	And nocturnal nighttime illusions or nighttime illusions.
	I'm not sure of the exact wording, but nighttime illusions.
	But for people who haven't heard our previous conversations, Paul, this plays into a whole raft, as you say, that go back for decades and are still happening right now.
	You know, like this month, right now, Christmas 2018, as we record this.
	Of reports of weird and strange lights.
	And as you've chronicled in your books, the truth-proof books, the sorts of people who record these are not the sorts of people who are given to making stuff up.
	So it is interesting, isn't it, that here is yet another report and somebody who now, after 38 years, feels confident enough to come forward and tell you, did the person give you, and like I've said, we can't give their name, but did they give you any indication as to why they hadn't decided to report it to anybody or go to a newspaper or do anything for 38 years?
	No, this chap contacted me probably a month ago and said he was ill with flu and he'd got something to tell me.
	I didn't actually know what I was going to receive, you know, what kind of unexplained phenomena or story he was going to tell me.
	And he said he would get back to me.
	And it came as a surprise this morning when I looked at emails and it was there and I thought, well, I'm going to email you this.
	You know, just coincidence, because if you remember last time we spoke, you'd received some emails and text, I believe, from a guy walking with several friends on the cliff tops at Bempton.
	I think the date was December the 18th.
	Forgive me if I'm wrong.
	And he claimed to have seen a flash of light over the sea or over sea and land.
	And when they got back to their vehicle, I think they'd lost about an hour and a half of time.
	And this was an information that had been relayed to you, Howard.
	But it just goes to show that, you know, people can read the truth proof books or listen to stories from anybody who's had an unusual experience around this area or any part of the world.
	I wouldn't say they're real.
	It doesn't make them real because people are telling me.
	But when you've got so many accounts coming to one concentrated area, people have to stand up and listen.
	People have to open their eyes that there's something real.
	There's some strangeness happening.
	Let's just stick with the lights for just a second here.
	The problem with this is that, you know, if you consider them to be in the same sort of category as UFOs or whatever they are, I'm going to be speaking with Nick Pope in a special New Year edition of this show.
	You know, Nick Pope, the man who used to work for the MOD, collate all the reports for the government, effectively.
	We don't have that department anymore.
	So I just wonder, this year, next year, who is going to collate, who can you go to?
	That's what I'm saying.
	When you have something like this to report, these days, who can you go to?
	Well, I suppose on a less grand scale, you've got to go to people like myself who are going to take people seriously and hopefully put their stories across in a good light.
	But the reports, Howard, they are getting collected and they are getting observed, shall we say, and notice is being taken of them within the MOD, within the RAF, even though it says they are not.
	I can't remember the date that the desk closed.
	Nick will be able to tell you that.
	Something tells me it was 2009.
	I think it was 2009 too, yeah.
	Yeah, well, I sent a reporting under Freedom of Information Request about an object that was seen at Osgoby close to Stax RF Staxton Wold.
	And it was filmed.
	And we got a letter back.
	We have still got the letter.
	We got this letter back.
	It's a little bit of gold, really, because I don't know the rank of the guy who sent it us from RF Staxton Wald, but he's the chap in charge.
	And he said, thank you for sending me this information.
	And unfortunately, it would have been too low to detect on our radar, you know, the object that we described and that had been filmed.
	And Nick Pope actually spoke about this in the newspaper.
	He passed comment on it at the time.
	And I think this was 2011.
	He said, however, all our UFO reports now go to RAF Leeming.
	So this guy, I wouldn't say shot himself in foot, but it exposed the fact that UFO reports are still being taken seriously whether the desk is closed.
	Let's get that clear.
	He said that all our UFO reports now go to RAF Leeming.
	RAF Leeming.
	Now, Howard, what I did.
	I didn't think the UFO reports went anywhere now.
	That's interesting.
	Well, I have the letter still.
	I still have the letter.
	And I've sort of showed the letter at the UFO conference a few years ago when I did a talk.
	Because I couldn't.
	Oh, and Nick's got a copy of it as well.
	Because I think he asked me if he could have a copy.
	I don't know whether he's still.
	So somebody's collating all of this, and it kind of plays into, but not really, a story that we tried to get to the bottom of recently.
	And I know that you sent me some very nice notes for this conversation, which was very kind of you.
	You know, people tend not to do that, and that's very good of you.
	There was a news story that made Sky News here, and also other sources, about RAF jets being scrambled to something unidentified in the sky.
	We talked about it on the radio show.
	They came from RAF Lossymouth in Scotland.
	You know, these people mean business when they go up there to investigate.
	People thought, well, maybe it's some kind of Russian reconnaissance craft that they might have been spotting, but then we'd have been told that it was that afterwards in the news, and we weren't.
	But now, apparently, there is some kind of explanation for this.
	So what I'm saying is that things that are seen in the sky, they're still being taken seriously by the likes of the RAF, and they are being responded to.
	But it turns out, I think you were telling me that this actually turned out to be a light aircraft.
	All of that fuss was over a light aircraft.
	Perhaps it was flying somewhere where it shouldn't have been or something like that.
	Well, there was a light aircraft flying directly over Hull at the time.
	This sighting that you're talking about, Howard, is from December the 2.
	Sorry, December the 10th, 2018.
	So very, very current.
	And the explanation is that it was a Cessna that was flying over Hull.
	However, the craft that was seen over Hull was said by multiple witnesses, and there'll probably be a lot more come out on this, to be very low in the sky.
	The Cessna was flying quite high.
	This thing was stationary.
	Now, as far as I'm aware, Cessna's can't hover.
	Well, we know they can't.
	A bit of sarcasm there from me, sorry.
	But this thing was stationary in the sky.
	People describe it as being absolutely huge and stationary.
	I'm not saying it weren't man-made because they've talked about it looking like a giant wing.
	And, you know, a guy I know personally called Steve Ashbridge was traveling home.
	He's a site agent and he's working on a site in Hull.
	And he called me to say he could see this thing and it was stationary.
	That's not a Cessna.
	Now, it says RAF jets were scrambled from Lossermouth.
	I believe, and I couldn't get the information in time to you, that jets were scrambled from another RAF base as well earlier in the day.
	So that's, you know, two different locations.
	I can't think what the other one was, but I mean, obviously Sky News did report that the jets had been scrambled.
	We have to pause a moment here, don't we?
	And we were asking this show, this, you know, we were asking this question on the radio, that they do not scramble because it's expensive and time-consuming and it causes a fuss.
	They don't scramble these planes willy-nilly.
	They don't just do it because somebody says, oh, I think I might have seen something there.
	You know, they do it for a serious purpose and in a serious way to check something out.
	So the question was, and still remains to some extent, what it was they were checking out.
	Well, if we're told it was a Cessna, okay, it was a light plane, but it wasn't behaving, as you say, like a light plane.
	Howard, you've just answered, well, part answered what I was going to say, actually, because if it was a Cessna, the RAF surely would have known what was in the air at that time, and they wouldn't have scrambled jets, armed apparently, to intercept an aircraft that they already knew.
	I mean, there's enough phone apps and things about for civilians to see what's flying and what's not flying.
	You know, so with all the sophisticated technology, surely they would have just gone, that's a Cessna.
	It's taking a route over Hull.
	I'm continually surprised by things that happen, but I would have thought so.
	But again, I'm not an expert.
	You did, you say, some vigils trying to check out what might be in the sky.
	That's correct.
	I didn't want to drive to Hull, but a few people had reported that they were still seeing this thing.
	And interestingly enough, it appeared that it was being seen between 4.30 and 5 p.m. throughout the week.
	So the following day, I drove to Frasethorpe and I drove right up onto the edge of the cliff.
	And listeners, when we say cliffs, they're almost sand dunes.
	You couldn't sort of hurt yourself at all.
	But you've got absolutely amazing views towards Salt End and Hull, unpolluted sky.
	And I think it was on the 13th of December at about 4.45.
	I'd already set a tripod up outside the vehicle and I sat in the vehicle observing because it was bitterly cold at that time of year on Edgett North Sea.
	Well, two lights appeared initially and one was over the sea and I believe that to be an helicopter but at distance it was hard to tell but usually when they're flashing you've got an idea that it's man-made you know I mean there could be a man-made explanation for everything that that we're discussing Howard.
	However I went and set the camera on the tripod and began to film it and then noticed to my right over hull and low in the sky a large oval shaped light silver white colour lit up.
	Now the one continued to flash moving towards it and I briefly pulled the camera around it's a good quality camera and I think I've well I know I've got it for about three or four seconds before it just blinks out and it's gone.
	The other light, the first one that I saw, continued moving towards that area.
	So yeah we've got a tiny bit of it on film.
	Nothing to say what it was.
	It's very inconclusive.
	I'm looking a good distance away and listeners with any experience would realize that it's not going to tell us anything.
	But if these things can appear over Hull and people can get a good visual sighting of them, there's nothing to say that they can't appear 25 to 30 miles closer over Frasethorpe.
	And as we know, these objects and strange things are being seen at Bempton, Speaton and Flamborough.
	It's just I'm a little bit obsessed with getting some footage of what I'm continually talking about.
	It's becoming a bit of a mission for me now, Howard.
	Now, you've done a lot of research and fair play to you for that, Paul.
	And we've talked about the research a lot here.
	Over the years and over the decades, we know, you and I, that there are a lot of RAF bases, some of them redundant, some of them still in use up and down that east coast of the UK.
	And up and down that east coast of Yorkshire.
	Is it a part of history?
	Is it a part of now that they are testing, as far as you know and as far as you might have heard, that they have been testing any experimental craft, any secret craft, anything that we may not know about?
	Or do you think that these things that people keep reporting are way beyond anything that we might be able to do?
	Well, if we just briefly jump back to this whole sighting, if it was man-made, it was able to hover.
	People reported it in the comments in the whole Daily Mail, which incidentally got removed afterwards.
	But somebody copied and pasted them for me.
	And this was huge.
	So if it were man-made, we must have some incredible technology.
	But then again, you wouldn't think it was ours or else they wouldn't scramble jets to intercept this object.
	Of course, it's a tense time at the moment because Russia tends to penetrate and probe our defenses at the moment just to show that they're still there.
	So, I mean, that might be an explanation for this.
	But all of the things that you tell me go way beyond that kind of thing.
	Well, up at Bempton last year, you know, the likes under the sea.
	I don't know what we've Got that could light up and move under the sea off Bempton.
	I know we've got submarines and things, but this was a triangular formation of lights under the sea that we've got photographic evidence of, you know, and some of the things that are happening, they're just sort of beggar belief.
	I really don't know whether it's a mixture of man-made objects and man-made technology.
	And we're also seeing these incredible sightings of the lights out over the sea because they might not just be lights, Howard, there might be something structured behind the light.
	Speculation, again, listeners, I do realize, because I simply don't know.
	I'm always amazed when I listen to people and they talk about something coming from this star system or being made by this race of aliens.
	Because these people are far more knowledgeable than me, because I've just got no idea.
	And I am trying, but whether it's alien technology or interdimensional technology that's breaking through into our sphere of existence or whether it's man-made.
	And look, a lot of people will say this is crazy, crazy, but you've collated decades of reports of weirdness in that area.
	And it's not just weirdness that you've been told anecdotally by people.
	We've had real cases of people going missing, of cats going missing, of power outages, of missing time that people have reported.
	And even on the cliff top there, and you've tested this yourself, strange effects that happen to clocks if you leave them.
	You can synchronize and set clocks, can't you?
	And leave them up there.
	And they will be telling radically different times when you come back to them.
	Well, it has happened.
	You know, I think I said this before.
	We call it the time experiments, but not that grand, really.
	It were just quartz digital watches placed in sealed containers, a pair of watches, all the exact time, just at various intervals up the cliffs to see whether anything could stop all the watches.
	And one pair lost an hour each.
	They both read the same time, but they both lost an hour.
	And I found that quite incredible.
	That is incredible because these things now are so good.
	And, you know, I tend to buy, I've got a few supermarket watches that cost me about eight quid and I'll use them for work.
	And I synchronize them to the master clock at work.
	And a week later, they'll still be synchronized.
	So we can't say, I don't think, that it's down to the technology here because, you know, technology is very good.
	So lots of weird stories.
	This year, you and I have talked a couple of times about your ongoing researches into, well, Linda Moulton Howe has talked with me many times in the US about cattle mutilation, but this is animal mutilations that appear to be happening all over the area and even as recently in Bempton, December the 6th.
	That's correct.
	Well, the killings, they haven't stopped at all throughout 2017.
	And I found new information now that it's sort of spread up and down the coast.
	You said 2017, by the way.
	You mean 2018?
	Well, no, I became aware of it in 2017.
	We had our first conversation last year about this sheep.
	Correct.
	But in this particular area, we'll call it the affected area, the sheep were removed on December the 6th, not because of the killings, but simply because the grass didn't have enough nutrients in it to sustain them.
	However, probably a week before that, because I don't have the exact date, but we're very the 1st of December, animals were still being killed.
	And I'd been visiting this area throughout the year between 4.30 and 5 a.m. every morning, or just about every morning, because I want to find these carcasses as they not as they've been killed.
	There's no great pleasure in finding them either, listeners.
	It's just the fact that if you find them in the afternoon or a day later, then foxes and badgers have predated on them and crows are the worst for distorting what we're actually looking at.
	And some of my listeners were telling me, both on the podcast and on the radio, in response, some of them were saying, well, this is the work of natural predators, but you tell me the sorts of things that you found, and we'll explain why that's possibly not practical.
	I genuinely do not believe it is the work of any known natural predator.
	And I don't mind saying that full stop because whatever's doing this is removing the ears with precision.
	And I mean, there's no chewing or bite marks.
	These are sliced off.
	I know it sounds a bit graphic, listeners, but that's the truth of it.
	The skin is stripped from the faces.
	The eyes are removed.
	Not in all instances, but the eyes are removed.
	There's no trauma around the eye socket to suggest anything's pulled at this.
	I don't know how graphic we can be here, Howard, but one of the last ones I found, and I was with a guy called Les Drake of Digital Creations and photographer.
	We were doing some drone work on the cliff tops.
	Didn't expect to find this animal, but its head and neck had been removed from where it attached on the breastbone.
	However, if you could picture a large wallpaper roller, imagine a big woollen one, that's what was left.
	Whatever had done it had removed it and almost not cored it out, but left this tube of wool.
	There was no sign of the ears, everything had gone.
	We outside in Tumacab, the internal organs were in the carcass because there was a large hole of about four to five inch round where it had removed the neck from the breastbone.
	And what else is interesting is if there's a leg missing, it's always a left leg.
	Now, isn't that bizarre?
	Is the only word we can use?
	It was the farmer that noted this.
	I'd not actually picked up on it.
	And you were telling me last time, I don't know if this is the same area, I think it is, that the farmer there was absolutely baffled and very, understandably, very, very worried about what was going on.
	But he just didn't know.
	It were actually grateful to me because I've been informing him at, say, 7.30, 8 o'clock most mornings to say there's no need to come up onto the fields, everything's fine.
	Or I've found another one.
	If you want to come up now, I'll help you load it onto the truck.
	You know, so yeah, absolutely baffled because it's I did touch on a few minutes ago that we've found out it's happening in other areas, but I'm not sure, I haven't spoken to the farmer since the 6th of December.
	I've spoken to other people very close to it.
	And I've found out now that in 2017, I don't have a specific date, but I know this information is correct.
	About 40 sheep were killed at Flamborough Head.
	That's about probably three miles away.
	I'm saying about because I don't have the specifics, but I know it's come from a police officer, so I know that these animals were killed.
	40?
	40 is a huge number.
	Yeah, bear in mind the ones that I've been looking into, Howard, three miles up the coast to Bempton, in the Bempton area, we should say.
	It's over 50 now.
	Now, the 40, what's interesting is, I don't think the farmer's aware of the other farm losing the livestock.
	Because it's not been told to me, and he would have done, because he informed me very late November, early December, that two sheep had been killed at Speaton, which is probably two miles up the coast, two to three miles up the coast towards Filey and Scarborough.
	We're not sure if this wasn't a dog attack.
	The MO doesn't sound like the face stripping, ears removed, and eyes removed.
	The faces were stripped on one of them, but it just the dog attacks are different without sort of going into graphic details.
	In a way, I mean, this is tragic and horrible, but at least it helps you to differentiate between the strange ones and the ones that are in some ways part of nature.
	Oh, without a doubt.
	I mean, when the farmer first became aware that things were happening up on this affected area, you know, he said his words were, it's a phenomena that's killing my livestock.
	But, you know, whatever's doing it is also killing roe deer and doing the same thing, removing the eyes.
	You know, and I don't know what kind of animal we've got that could actually catch a roe deer stag.
	But interestingly, when I went with him to Speaton, you know, because he wanted to tell me about it, because I'd been good enough to go up to the affected area throughout the year, a couple walking met him who knew him and they told him that there's several deer carcasses very close, believe it or not, to where this chapel has just related the story of the sphere of light on the cliffs.
	They'd found a couple of deer carcasses.
	You know, so we've got all this, we can't connect the lights to the animal mutilations, if you want to call them mutilations, but there's strong indicators that strange things are happening in the area.
	And I don't think it's something to do with some alien or when we say alien, I mean alien to the UK, big cat, because surely if it were killing these livestock, it would be acting like a big cat doesn't dragging them away to some.
	Stripping of the flesh, the left leg phenomena, the way that this is done in an almost surgical way makes it look as if somebody is doing this for some kind of either weird ritual, but that seems unlikely because of the scale of it, but who knows, or research.
	Some kind of research is a possibility.
	Further down the coast towards Hull, there's a place called Sproteley.
	It's about 24 miles away.
	And they've been sat with shotguns observing, trying to find out what's doing the very same thing to their sheep.
	So it's up, and earlier in the year, or going back to 2017, further up the coast, so it's all along the east and north Yorkshire coast at Ravenscar, sheep were being killed in a similar manner.
	So you've just got to ask just what is going on.
	And if it wasn't for you researching these things, would the farmers involved be in contact with each other?
	Would word get round?
	I don't think so.
	I think initially, you know, they want to keep it quiet.
	And they're very...
	I suppose a bit like the trawler and I suppose a bit like mining communities.
	They talk amongst themselves, but I don't think they want this kind of information broadcasting as I'm doing now, for want of a better word.
	But I'm doing the research.
	I'm not making it up.
	I've got the images of the animals.
	And there is something here that you've been looking into for a couple of years that needs to be explained.
	It is literally unexplained.
	Well, this is true, without a doubt.
	I think it was May of this year, I found a rodeer carcass.
	I think we may have spoken about it.
	We did.
	It looked like it had had its ribs exploded from the inside out.
	That's the best I could say for this.
	Laid under a hawthorn tree.
	Its internal organs looked absolutely pristine.
	I've spent ages looking at this carcass for any signs of trauma, bite marks, claw marks, anything to suggest how it had happened because it wasn't a shotgun wound.
	These ribs were outside in.
	I don't know how that works.
	The only thing missing was half of this poor animal's liver.
	However, what I'm getting to is when Christopher Turner, the documentary filmmaker, came earlier this year, we brought an array of equipment to sort of in sort of do some research in the area and do some all-night vigils.
	But he brought with him a phone app, Geiger counter.
	It was an attachment that went onto his phone.
	I was told it cost about £40.
	So a Geiger counter, a device, those of us who were kids in the 70s will remember this because they were talking about the possibility of nuclear attack all the time.
	But it's a device that measures radiation.
	Yeah.
	Well, regardless of it being a phone Geiger counter for three days, we carried this around basically on and in the area, and nothing happened.
	And we got into the wood, and I just said to Chris, I said, this is where I found the rodeer stag in May of early this year.
	We walked over to the area and we got it on film, and it replicated several times.
	So it's not just, it weren't just a one-off.
	And this thing, it had a circle measuring in yellow and then going around to red.
	This thing went to 89% in that area.
	And I don't mean some specific large areas.
	What is, I mean, sorry, I haven't, I mean, I've looked at one once when I was a kid in a fire station.
	I was shown one, but what's normal background?
	I'd one point something that it was reading.
	So this has gone from one point something to 89.
	89%.
	And we have to bear in mind, listeners, that this was a phone app Geiger counter.
	So in the true sense of the word, not something that you'd carry around to check on an ultra serious level.
	However, three days this thing never moved.
	Took it to the area where the deer carcass was, redlined.
	I mean, we found that quite amazing.
	We've now bought a Geiger counter.
	I only got it several days ago, so we'll be testing that.
	Well, on our next conversation, which I hope will be quite soon in the new year, if you can do it, we'll talk more about that.
	Because that is strange.
	You know, somebody who was doing, you know, a poacher or somebody like that wouldn't surgically dissect animals and leave a lot of the carcass there.
	What would be the point, Howard?
	And there wouldn't be radiation.
	Well, there wouldn't be radiation, no.
	And what would be the point, as you've just said, of killing a prime, an animal in its prime, good meat if you're a meat eater, and then, like you've just said, leaving it.
	Earlier in the year, another rodeus stag was killed.
	And I was walking back, actually, and one of the farmers was walking towards me.
	And I thought, oh, I wonder what he's got to say.
	And he says, there's been another one killed near the Kissing Gate, which is an area on the land.
	And we walked over to it, and its eye had been removed, and its front of its muzzle had been stripped.
	But what was interesting was the farmer said to me, I was listening to music in my bedroom last night, and they don't shut the curtains because there's nobody around.
	He says, and there was lights bouncing off really fast on the back bedroom wall.
	Now me, and I think yourself, Howard, you'd have just jumped up and had a look.
	They said he didn't.
	But that was the night before we found, well, he found the rodeer stag.
	He'd actually found it walking up his drive with his dogs.
	So we reference back to strange lights.
	And what's this about robotic voices?
	Well, I've heard them once.
	He told me that this is the same guy, actually.
	There were a crop of corn near where he's got his garden area.
	And he just said to me, I heard voices last night.
	I said, really?
	He said, yeah.
	I said, where?
	He said, there.
	He pointed to the field with the crops probably two to three feet high.
	He said, they sounded almost robotic, like walkie-talkie type voices.
	He said, but there was nobody there.
	I was sat, just relaxing, enjoying the late evening.
	You know, I think it were dark, actually.
	And then he said he stood at his back door and looking over the fields and looking towards the woodland, and he can hear the same kind of voices in the woods, but there's no lights.
	Now, you'd have to be lunatic to walk about these woods in darkness.
	There's all sorts of trip hazards and there's a ravine in there, but you know, back of Danesdyke Woods.
	I went into the woods earlier this year, very early morning, just getting light.
	I'd probably walked 100, 150 foot from the field and I heard voices.
	The bracken were quite high and it really unnerved me to be honest, but I'm not in Abbott climbing fences and walking through crops, but I did consider it.
	Could you make out any words and what was the style of the speech?
	It was almost robotic, and that's the best I could say.
	No, I couldn't make out any words, Howard.
	So this was something that was either coming external to you, or maybe if there's radiation and all sorts in that sort of area, I wonder if that's something that, you know, it's almost messing with your head.
	Well, it does make you wonder.
	You know, I mean, I suppose if you go in these areas enough and there's enough strange activity occurring, you're going to experience it at some point or other.
	That's the only time I've heard the voices.
	I mean, but it got so bad last year with the livestock that I almost anticipated every time I went up, I was going to find one.
	And as I say, just to reiterate, for anyone who thinks that this is normal predator-based killings, if you wanted to contact me, and providing you're not just going to broadcast the pictures, if there's some way I could show you, I will.
	Because they're not idle words.
	These ears and these eyes have been removed.
	These faces are getting stripped of flesh.
	And indeed, you have sent me some pictures, and they are, and I'm going to use the word again, bizarre, because of the surgical way that this has been done.
	And it also makes you think that in a place that is fairly wild, you know, it's countryside, it's not a city, you know, where would anybody have the equipment to be able to do that?
	That's another point, Howard.
	A lot of these actually injuries are devastating around the throat area.
	And I don't mean ripped out by a dog.
	It's absolutely devastating.
	and the sheep is a dirty white colour and yet we're not seeing no...
	Where's the blood?
	There's no evidence of blood on these carcasses.
	There's no evidence of blood splats all over the grass.
	I realize, listeners, we're talking a little bit graphic, but I think if it's happening like this, then you've got to say it like it is.
	And there's no evidence of massive blood loss as we've discussed before, and we will discuss again.
	Talk to me, Paul, then, about bringing down the light right.
	Yes, well, when Chris arrived, Chris Turner, the documentary filmmaker, arrived the first time.
	We gathered a lot of information, and based on my research, he made a small 60-minute documentary called The Bempton Phenomena.
	That was the first one.
	And we were quite amazed by that, I wouldn't say success, I mean, it's not made us any money, but he put it onto YouTube.
	And within seven days, it had got over 100,000 hits.
	Because a lot of the things that I'm researching are very similar to the ranch in America.
	I actually think probably we've got more information and more going off here.
	And that's not some idle boast.
	And we don't have the funds to throw at it like the Americans have done, for instance.
	But I mean, good for these people.
	More power to them because I wish I'd got them.
	But Chris arrived again, and we planned on an extensive bit of research.
	I'd lined up eight witnesses.
	We want another one actually to complete our documentary, which we wanted to make into an hour and a half long.
	And we've got thermal imaging cameras, drones.
	We want to make this as interesting to the viewer as we can possibly be.
	And we've interviewed all manner of witnesses to different phenomena around the East Yorkshire area.
	All of them willing to give their names and let their faces be shown properly.
	Most of them, there's a guy in Carnaby, due to position of the husband and wife's jobs, he's on camera, he's talking about the experience, but he wants his face blurred out.
	And what was the experience?
	Well, they've got quite a wonderful property at Carnaby, extensive grounds, and this guy's very, very talented.
	He's very good at making things.
	And he's created a secluded garden within the grounds, and a stone circle about 30 feet round with standing stones of about two feet high.
	And then got huge old pieces of oak and put them round with an entrance in.
	And they do meditation and things in there.
	And the only access to the garden is through an arched oak door, which is about literally, people, four inches thick.
	It's like a church door.
	And he's made this wonderful door and this huge wrought iron knocker on it.
	And he came this particular day, summertime.
	His wife's with him and they've got their grandchild in his arms.
	And he approaches the door.
	And it's the only way into the garden.
	And he speaks to the grandchild.
	He says, shall we see if the fairies are in?
	This is totally new to this guy.
	He didn't, you know, he was just trying to entertain his grandchild.
	And he put his hand to the door knocker and went bang, bang, bang.
	His wife's filming this, and they go into the garden, and the little child's playing, and I suppose they're just going on with the day.
	But when they viewed the footage, this thing, I've seen it, and I won't say blown away, but I'm mesmerized every time I see it because it's not in sunlight.
	This thing that looks like it's sparkling, and if I'm trying to give the listener some kind of analogy, if you picture a sparkler and you move them about slowly, you see that trail, that sort of wonderful magical trail.
	This thing just comes in over his shoulder.
	Very slow and just stops for momentarily and then goes.
	When these frames are broken down, it's got two legs, what look to be two arms and wings, and it's beautifully golden.
	And if it's like an angel, something like that.
	Like a fairy.
	He's called it a fairy.
	It's very small.
	It's only probably an inch or two inches, you know, in size.
	And it's just amazing how it comes.
	There are people, I mean, it may have been some kind of artifact of the lens of the camera or whatever it might be, but there are people who to this day sincerely believe in fairies.
	Well, there are.
	I mean, it's not something we've ever considered.
	If I'm being truthful, Howard, and I don't think this chap did as well, but he's given us the footage.
	So this is all part of the new documentary, and that's called Bringing Down the Light, is it?
	Bringing Down the Light.
	And we're featuring the Flickston werewolf and strange stories.
	Flickston Wickston.
	Okay, we've only got a couple of minutes on this conversation.
	The radio part of it will continue for a little while after that.
	But tell me the werewolf story.
	Well, we've got one from a guy called Lee who lives in Cayton.
	We've got several, but to stick with this one.
	He was coming home from an equity meeting in Hull, and he was driving through Humanby when we previously discussed these place locations.
	Hummumby meaning Farmstead of the Houndman, Hundmanby, all very close to Flixton.
	And he approached Falkton and Flixton and then turned onto the Cars, which is the huge dried-up lake bed that was once Lake Flixton 11,000 years ago.
	These are all the areas where we've gained the reports of what's known as the Flixton Werewolf.
	So as it passes this mile of single-track road and approaches Caton, it turns onto West Garth.
	And he said that at the time they were just building some houses.
	A major house builder was just building them.
	So we can actually date it at 2011.
	But previously it had been a huge field that just sort of filtered down onto the cars.
	At the other end of West Garth, there were some bungalows.
	I'm not going to say their age, but we've because I'm not entirely sure, but they're fairly new.
	And he's sort of driving along in the dark, headlights on, obviously.
	His wife's with him.
	So something caught his eye coming from down the side of one of the bungalows.
	So whatever it was had been in the garden, unless it was an occupant of the bungalow, but when he describes it, I think you'll realise it couldn't have been.
	He says, and sort of in one giant leap, it's sort of at the end edge of the road and he's mesmerized when momentarily it stops and then it's in the middle of the road in front of his car in another leap.
	And this thing, he says, he doesn't know if it had fur, because if it had fur, it must have been very tight and almost silver grey in colour.
	And it was sinuous, absolutely muscular and very, very coat anger-type lean.
	He said, But everything about it was wrong.
	Its bone structure, its arms, the length of its arms were too long, the length of its forearms were too long.
	Its legs, the sort of genetic makeup of its legs looked back to front.
	Obviously, its feet were forward facing, but it just looked wrong.
	You know, and that's the best he could describe it.
	I did ask him how tall he thought it would be, you know, if it stood up on two legs and he was talking seven to eight foot tall.
	Was he scared?
	Shocked more than anything, because it was, I'm not sure he would have had time to be scared, Howard.
	That's just another one of the strange stories that are part of your life now.
	I mean, this is your life now, isn't it?
	Oh, it really is.
	And obviously, you've got a separate life.
	You've got your wife, your children, your grandchildren.
	And I don't make what we're talking about now their burden because I do enjoy doing this, but I'm just out all time, Howard.
	I mean, I'll probably be at Bempton tonight.
	Well, listen, I'm glad you are.
	That's where the conversation ends for our radio listeners, but the conversation will continue now for our listeners on the podcast.
	So if you want to hear the rest of this conversation, then in a day or so, go to my podcast at theunexplained.tv, and the conversation you've just heard will be there and extended.
	So anyway, let's get back to it now.
	Now that we're on the podcast alone, Paul, which is where it all started for us, didn't it?
	What are you working on for 2019 then?
	One of the things you said that you were going to get into was the Red Demon of Dane's Dyke.
	Fantastic title.
	Yeah, I mean, I'll probably be part of a chapter for the book when we eventually write about this.
	It'll not be the Truth Truth 3.
	It'll be another book because that one's finished.
	But I've got lots of little snippets of information.
	In fact, I don't know about you, I would.
	I get told that much stuff that if I don't write it down, it leaves my head because there's so many people bringing me bits of information.
	But this is a fairly new story.
	And this guy was walking in Danesdyke, sort of early evening with his wife and child and their dog.
	Now, I don't know if you've ever been to Danesdyke, but in places it's quite steep.
	The ravines go down 40 or 50 feet.
	Mostly it's about 20 feet.
	But it's thick with it's lush with vegetation at the time of the year that they're walking.
	And the dog, he said the dog went, you know, the dog, those long leads that you have, you're extendable for the dog.
	For taking the dog out walkies, yeah.
	He said he was throwing, I don't know, a ball or a stick, and the dog went down the ravine, part of the ravine and started screaming and yelping and wailing.
	And it pulled it back, and the dog was cut.
	Something had got hold of it in the ravine.
	He thought, you know, perhaps it had had an encounter with a badger or something.
	It hadn't, so it weren't, it weren't so bad that he had to take it to the vest, but it sort of unnerved him a little bit.
	But he went back and dropped his wife and child off and went back to have a look.
	And he claims that when he went down into the ravine and looked up, sees a tree probably about 12 inches, I wouldn't say in circumference, but 12 inch as you're looking at it, the 12 inch wide.
	And what he saw was the shoulder, the head, and red glowing eyes.
	I mean, listeners, I can only report what I'm told of some creature.
	What was equally more baffling was he couldn't see any of it at the other side of the tree.
	So he should have been able to see more of this thing.
	Needless to say, it absolutely terrified him.
	And that's the story that I will be working on and be getting more information from this guy.
	One of the other intriguing things about the truth-proof books are the collation that you've done of staggering stories in strange circumstances of people simply disappearing.
	Will you be following that theme as well in the future?
	I will be, yeah.
	Obviously, we have not got to wish for somebody to disappear.
	But the ones that I've covered, I'm trying to be as careful as I can, Howard.
	I don't mean with my wording here, but I need to be accurate and not just find people who've disappeared because obviously people have in any town, in any city, anywhere on the planet, people do disappear.
	But the circumstances of some of the disappearances that we discussed, and people can go back through past podcasts and hear about these, are, here's that word third time, bizarre.
	Absolutely.
	I mean, I don't know the exact date now.
	I think it might have been 2010.
	A guy, well, last seen on Cliff Lane, he got dropped off by a taxi.
	He was going for a day up at the bird sanctuary.
	He travelled from York and the train broke down in Scarborough and the taxi brought him through and he dropped off with some other occupants who needed to get to Bridlington at Cliff Lane.
	And he was seen by the CCTV of a guy called David Hind.
	So his last whereabouts were seen walking towards the bird sanctuary because there's only one place to go on Cliff Lane if that's the lane you're on and that's up to the bird sanctuary.
	It doesn't go nowhere else.
	And Cliff Lane, we have to say, is a name that keeps reappearing in the book.
	Sorry, carry on.
	No, that's fine.
	Perfectly well-adjusted guy for all intents and purposes.
	And basically, he's never, ever been seen since.
	Just vanished.
	But what I find interesting about his story in particular is it was 16 miles up the coast, seven days later.
	So, you know, the geography of this is and the locations are very close, you know.
	And I've said before, this isn't midsummer murders.
	A guy goes fishing, does a bit of rock angling, takes his two Spaniel dogs with him, doesn't return home.
	His wife becomes concerned.
	The next day, they find his car, you know, close to the spot where he's parked up to go fishing.
	He's gone.
	Never been seen since.
	Obviously, we can't rule out the fact that either of these men could have fallen to their deaths, but no body has ever been found.
	And, you know, I think due to the timeframes involved, you know, and the, you know, the closeness of proximities, you know, you've got to think, is there some kind of link here?
	Is something happening here?
	Of course, there may not be, but it's worth it.
	More research because of the circumstances.
	Yeah, exactly.
	You know, so many people have just, for want of no better word, gone to visit the bird sanctuary or gone for a day's walking at Flamborough, Speaton and Bempton and just never been seen again.
	And of course we have to say, because we don't want to put people going off or put people off going to a beautiful area.
	You know, there may be perfectly logical explanations for these.
	And, you know, millions of people visit this area every year.
	Let's say that to be fair.
	Billions and thousands.
	It is a wonderful, wonderful place.
	Study views.
	You know, if you live in a city, and I live near a city, I'm not quite in the city, thank God.
	But I think, you know, if you want to clear your head, breathe some fresh air, then it's a beautiful area.
	Last question, I've asked you it before, but I have to ask it every time, really, is what is it you think about this area that sort of makes it weirdness central?
	What is it?
	I wish I'd got the answer to that, Howard, but you know, these areas do exist all over the planet, I would believe.
	Is it just the fact that I'm looking into these things?
	I don't mean I'm enhancing them, but I'm actually winkling out more stories than other people would from their particular area.
	I don't think entirely, no, because I genuinely believe that these areas, this pocket of eye strangeness, it's not just appeared.
	These things have been reported as long as documented reports have been made.
	I don't know if I've time just to speak about Ian Norris's sighting Abaha.
	Yeah, please do.
	Just while we touch on Bempton and the surrounding area, this was a daylight sighting of a few years ago, and this guy's going to appear in Bringing Down the Light.
	And, you know, he's quite happy to say his name and appear on film.
	We've been and interviewed him.
	He was with his wife on a bright summer's day on the cliff tops of Bempton and Flambre.
	He said it must have been hundreds of people that day on the cliff tops.
	And he looked towards the RAF base.
	That's where he was, parallel to it.
	So we're talking two to three hundred yards away.
	He says, and low over the RAF base was a huge oval or torpedo-shaped grey-looking object.
	He says, and I'm looking round, and my wife's looking round.
	And we're trying to tell people.
	We're trying to, we're not shouting at them, but we're sort of going, you know, I don't know.
	If you saw a building on fire, you'd point up to it and try and explain to people, look at that.
	But nobody's looking.
	He says, it was almost as though we're in a little vacuum.
	He says, we could see it.
	He says, then it turned brilliant white.
	And he says, I know what I'm looking at.
	I'm familiar with aircraft.
	I'm ex-South African Army or Military.
	I think he said army.
	And he said, you know, I'm experienced in looking at things.
	And I didn't know what it was.
	He said, but the most bizarre part of the experience was everyone else on the cliff tops weren't even looking or didn't seem to be even interested in what we were trying to show them.
	So I find that quite interesting.
	How that could work and the mechanics of it, I don't know, Howard, but I find Ian's citing intriguing.
	Well, you're going to be busy through 2019 and we're very, very close to 2019 now.
	So, and you tell me you're going to go out observing tonight.
	I mean, look, I am full of praise for you, and I think you're amazing.
	I always point people in your direction because you do thorough research and you keep asking questions, which is what it's all about.
	So, Paul, let's talk again early in the new year.
	I'm really delighted that it's all going so well for you.
	If people want to read about you, get a little taster of the stuff you do, and maybe, you know, have a look for the documentary when it appears and perhaps buy the books.
	Where do they go?
	Well, the books are for sale on Amazon, and you can also get them through truthproof.webs.com.
	Apologies now to people.
	I'm absolutely useless with social media and things, but if you make efforts to contact me, I will always try and message you back.
	And if you have any stories to relate, you know, go for it.
	I realize it's about trying to push the books, but I think you can tell from what I'm talking about, I'm more interested in the research than pushing the books.
	If you're interested in them, read the reviews.
	That's all I've got to say.
	Go to Amazon, type in truth proof into your search engine, read the reviews.
	If you're sufficiently interested, get in touch or purchase a book.
	The books are fantastic, but the nice thing about you is that you don't, you know, you're not on to sell books.
	You are interested in the research, and you said that yourself.
	Paul Sinclair, and before Paul, you heard Jeremy Corbell talking about the mysterious, the remarkable Bob Lazar and his work, he says, at and around Area 51.
	We have a lot to talk about in 2019.
	Thank you very much for supporting me, for being there for me.
	You know, I may never meet you, but I regard you as a friend and thank you very much for your comments, sometimes criticisms and suggestions for this show.
	Have a great Christmas and a fabulous 2019.
	So until next, we meet here on The Unexplained, online.
	My name is Howard Hughes.
	This has been The Unexplained.
	I am in London.
	And please stay safe, stay calm.
	And whatever you do, please stay in touch.
	Thank you very much.
	Take care.

▲

Edition 375 - Jeremy Corbell &amp; Paul Sinclair

Edition 375 - Jeremy Corbell & Paul Sinclair