All Episodes
Previous Next
Nov. 3, 2018 - The Unexplained - Howard Hughes
01:06:28
Edition 368 - Joshua P Warren

Time shifts and high strangeness - we welcome you to the world of Joshua P Warren...

| Copy link to current segment

Time Text
Across the UK, across continental North America, and around the world on the internet, by webcast and by podcast, my name is Howard Hughes, and this is the return of the unexplained.
Well, here we are.
We found ourselves somehow teleported to the beginning of November 2018.
This year that's gone so fast is now heading for winter time here in the northern hemisphere, and let's hope the winter is kind to us.
Otherwise, I'm going to be very upset.
But I'm not going to talk any more about the weather.
Thank you very much for your ongoing emails and guest suggestions and contact details for possible guests.
Keep those coming.
If you want to contact me, go to my website.
And whatever you do, even if you don't want to contact me, please put a hit on the website.
That's important.
But go to the website theunexplained.tv, designed and created by Adam Cornwell from Creative Hotspot in Liverpool.
And you can follow a link and send me a message from there.
And I'd love to hear from you.
When you get in touch, as I always say, please tell me who you are, where you are, and how you use this show.
It's very, very important for me to know those things.
Not that I'm keeping a dossier on you or anything like that.
I'd just like to know, you know, and it's marvelous that we have this worldwide family with new listeners joining us all the time.
It is directed by you.
Your suggestions are terribly important to me.
So please, like they say on the game shows, keep them coming.
The guest on this edition of the show is a remarkable guy.
His name is Joshua P. Warren.
He's been on my radio show, and I'm really pleased to have him here on the online edition now.
We're going to talk at greater length, and, you know, without having to get to commercial breaks and all the stuff you have to do on radio, we've got time to just talk and shoot the breeze about all of the things that he's investigated over so many years.
This guy began investigating strange scientific and paranormal phenomena when he was a teenager and is very much a presence online and everywhere else these days.
So Joshua P. Warren, coming right up.
Now, for my friends who are interested in the way that podcasts are done, I sometimes get emails from people saying, can you give us some tips about the way that you do podcasts, if I'm equipped to do that, or the kinds of gear, the equipment that you use to do it?
So at the moment, I'm doing this edition, and it's a bit of an experiment with a microphone that I've picked up recently.
You know that I love microphones, and I've discovered over the years, as you might have discovered, that the more expensive ones are not always the best.
And sometimes you can get bargains that are really cheap and are very good.
So for those people who've been in touch with me and said, you know, I'm trying to do this on a budget, I'm trying out a microphone at the moment, just as an experiment, that I discovered on eBay and paid £25, including the postage for.
Now, this microphone is French, French by design and Chinese by manufacture.
It's made by a company called ProDeep, P-R-O-D-I-P-E, and I haven't got shares in them.
I have no interest in promoting them, but I just think this is a good mic.
It is the ProDeep TT1 Pro Lannon, designed by a guy called Ludovic Lannon, who's a big figure in music engineering and music production, very much a music guy in France.
So he came up with a microphone that would be cheap, but good.
And I think this one is.
At the moment, I'm using a bit of foam, of course, as a pop filter on it.
But, you know, this sound to me is very much like some of the more expensive microphones that I've used.
So if you're one of those people who's asked me about equipment, if you like the sound of this microphone, it might be the way to go.
If you look carefully in America, it's about $40.
Here in the UK, I think you can get them for £35 if you look carefully by mail order.
So it's the ProDeep TT1 Pro Lannon.
And that's enough of that.
Thank you very much for all of your emails.
Thank you for supporting me and my show.
And if you've made a donation to what we do here recently, thank you very much.
That's vital to allow this independent work to continue.
All right, let's get to the guest on this edition.
We'll cross to the United States of America and we'll meet up with Joshua P. Warren.
Joshua, thank you very much for coming on my show.
It is my pleasure.
It is an honor to be with you.
So thanks for the invitation.
Now, Joshua, you have an international reputation and an international reputation for many things.
You also have, just checking your biography, I think probably more websites than any one individual has a right to.
I think you probably have eight or ten.
What's that all about?
Well, over the years, I've probably operated 50 or more websites, and it's really because I've been self-employed since I was 18 years old, and I've always just been really interested in entrepreneurship.
So my first love in life, of course, is doing paranormal investigation, writing books, doing speaking engagements.
But also I like developing interesting products that might help people.
For example, I created a solar generator company called the Sunshine Simple Company that has done very well.
I recently sold it.
And then over the years, I've also worked on helping people who might want to produce their own types of programming.
And so I find that in the past, it was easiest to have sort of a website for every little different thing.
But now I just sort of try to funnel everything through joshuapwarren.com, my main personal website.
I need to be asking you tips on all of this, including the entrepreneurship, I think.
So this makes you a very hard man then to pigeonhole and describe.
How would you describe yourself?
You started in all of this, as you rightly said, very, very young.
Yes, I published my first book when I was 14, going on 15.
And so I've published over 20 books now.
I've, as you can see, been on many, many different TV programs and worked on movies.
I have a laboratory and museum in my hometown of Asheville, North Carolina.
I own the largest walking tour company in North Carolina.
I just do a lot of stuff.
And so I always kind of joke that if somebody asks me what I do for a living, it depends on the situation.
But ultimately, I usually identify myself as an author and paranormal investigator, unless, of course, I'm selling something like a solar generator.
That might give me some weird look.
It might enhance your trade.
Who knows?
But most of the time, that's the easiest label to slap on there.
But yeah, it is funny Because I just have so many varied interests, and I'm fortunate that I have the freedom to explore most of them.
I would say all of them, but it's one of those situations where there really aren't enough hours in the day.
My wife and I chose not to have children, so we'd have the freedom to travel around and keep weird hours.
And so I've really carved out quite a nice little life where I can sort of explore and experiment with all the different things that I'm interested in.
Well, what has always struck me about talking with you is it's always an uplifting experience.
And I'll tell you why.
You have such amazing drive and optimism about the stuff you do.
I don't think you allow ever for the possibility that things may not work.
I presume that there are some things that you've tried that haven't worked, but you have this amazing aura about you.
Well, thank you for saying that.
I believe that is an important part of having a productive and happy life.
I think that it is a choice that you really can make and that you must make.
There are various ways of wording it, but I recently saw it quoted as Einstein once put it, that you can live your life believing that nothing is a miracle or live your life believing that everything is a miracle.
And I happen to find that the very fact this planet exists is a mind-boggling, miraculous thing.
In fact, it's funny to me if you talk to the most strict, rational, materialistic scientists who are atheists and just don't believe in anything and they have the best technology and the highest budgets and they're scoping and they're scanning the universe as far and as wide and as deep as they can.
And even they will say, well, we can't find anything else out there that's just like we have here on this little planet.
And so Earth is a paranormal planet.
It's the whole thing is wondrous.
It doesn't make a lot of sense.
It's a magical place.
And the fact that we were born here and are a part of it means that we ourselves are magical beings.
And so I find it very exciting to see what the limits of that are, how far you can go and what you can do.
And so it keeps me really excited and thrilled all the time.
And the great thing that we have both discovered is the variety of views about everything, about this world and whatever worlds there may be beyond us.
Loads of views.
There are people who believe that the Earth is flat.
And does it surprise you?
And I'm suspecting that you and I will be two people who are not surprised by this.
But in 2018, there are more and more people who buy into these alternative views, like, for example, the flat Earth.
There have been a number of conferences.
The most recent one was packed out.
It was heavily attended.
You know, in this day and age, and I suppose it's a good thing that there is freedom of thought.
We don't want to be suppressing people.
But there is more variety and more freedom of thought in these matters than I think there ever has been.
Yeah, I think that is the strange consequence we pay for this wonderful thing called the internet, that it allows us to spread great information and good data far and wide, but it also allows us to spread bad information.
And so it seems like any little niche can find a support group where they all sort of pat each other on the back and reinforce each other's beliefs.
And as long as you know, they're not hurting anybody, it doesn't bother me.
I mean, the way I personally look at something like the flat earth is you would have to be a real conspiracy theorist.
Um, you'd almost have to believe you were living in a Truman show-like world to think that everybody is lying about the shape of the earth, you know.
But that's the fact, Joshua, they do.
I interviewed Mark Sargent, who's a very nice guy on my show.
I've done him both on my radio show and my podcast.
And I get alternatively people saying, well done for interviewing Mark Sargent and people throwing brick bats at me saying, what have you had a man like him on there for?
But he believes that that is exactly the case.
That, I mean, I don't want to be here speaking for him, that we are indeed all little twinkling starlets in somebody else's firmament.
Well, you know, my favorite class in college, not surprisingly, was philosophy.
And I remember the day we got into perspective and ideas of solipsism.
And it was kind of interesting how, you know, the professor was saying, you look at a tree when you're five feet away, it looks pretty big.
You know, you look at it from 100 feet away, it looks like it's shrunk a little bit.
And you take a ruler and you put it up next to the tree when you're five feet away and it says it's such and such tall.
But when you walk away, well, now the ruler is shrunk as well.
And so basically you have to always consider perspective.
And ultimately, it's impossible to say that one individual is necessarily right or wrong because frankly, I can't tell you for a fact that I am not having a dream right now and that I'm going to wake up in a minute and say, oh, it's time for me to go on the Howard Hughes show.
Or do something even better with your time.
There is that realistic limitation on how we can judge reality from this very limited point of view.
So I don't think that it's ever appropriate to state 100% that one person is wrong and you're right when it comes to the way of viewing the shape of this reality.
But I also feel like that it's not practical and productive for us to focus solely on that.
We have to think, well, let's take a risk once in a while and let's just assume here that the Earth is round, for example, because that seems to work for us when we go out there trying to send satellites around, et cetera, et cetera.
Now, I first came into connection with you some years ago now, and I think it's probably more than 10, when at an airport bookshop, I was looking for something to read, something to take away with me.
I was having a very rare break.
And I saw a book.
I think this was in the States.
I was in the US.
I saw a book on a shelf called How to Hunt Ghosts.
And I loved the title because so many people spend so much time coming up with clever and arty-farty titles, as we call them here.
How to Hunt Ghosts is such a cool title.
And then I loved your name, so I bought the book.
That book did a lot of good business for you, didn't it?
Yes, it did.
That was the first book that was picked up by a really big publisher.
You know, when I started writing books as a kid, I published a lot with regional publishers.
But How to Hunt Ghost was purchased by Simon Schuster, which the biggest publisher in the world at that time, maybe still is.
And it was distributed in multiple languages around the world.
And, you know, it's amazing.
I mentioned off-air that sometimes when I go to these big conferences, I have people who walk up to me, people who have their own big audience, and they say, man, the reason I got involved in all this was because I read your book, How to Hunt Ghosts.
And so that has really become a handbook for a lot of people in the world.
And that makes me feel great.
Yeah.
Now, I talk to a lot of people in various paranormal and ghost investigating societies, not only in the UK, but around the world.
In fact, I had some on my show about a month ago on the radio show.
And what impacts me more than anything else about these people is that the tools that they're using to do this are increasingly sophisticated.
You know, they're using all sorts of meters.
They're using spirit boxes, these things that tune up and down the FM radio dial, supposedly picking out coherent sentences by doing a sweep of all the frequencies.
They've got electromagnetic meters and all kinds of stuff.
Do you think the business of hunting ghosts, if it is possible to do such a thing, has become more sophisticated now, that it's become a science rather than an art?
Well, I think that it's a nice blend.
It's a great blend of art and science.
Art because there's such subjectivity to the whole process.
I mean, nobody knows exactly what we're looking for here.
And so you get to use your imagination and come up with theories, and nobody can necessarily say they know more than the next guy because it's a mystery.
But the science of this is intriguing because what I'm finding is that as we become more and more advanced technologically and we create instruments that are more and more sensitive, what we find is that the problem is as we get the sensitivity so great,
these tiny fine details emerge from the environment, but then also so much more noise comes along with it.
And so I think what we really have a challenge with here is the filtering process, not just sort of magnifying what's all around us and looking for little subtle things, but being able to filter out what's important from what's not.
And so that, I believe, is the challenge when it comes to the future of paranormal investigation in general, but especially with ghosts.
And I do find, however, that the unfortunate thing is that most people who you will see either in person or on television or whatever, who are out there using these instruments, whether they be electromagnetic field meters or electrostatic detectors or Geiger counters, if you ask that person, how does that piece of equipment work?
The person does not know.
They'll look at you like a deer in headlights.
And it's as simple as, you know, there have been times when I see somebody using an electromagnetic field meter, an EMF meter, one of the standard tools, and I'll say, what is an electromagnetic field, by the way?
And they don't even know exactly how to explain that.
And so I've always thought it's important to be able to really understand your tool to the extent that if somebody disassembled it in front of you, you could probably put it back together again.
And the reason I think that's important is because that every single instrument out there, no matter how scientifically we view it, was imagined by a human, designed by a human, built by a human, calibrated by a human, is being used by a human and interpreted by a human.
And so you cannot remove the human element from this, hence the artistic side of all this.
But we have to be realistic about understanding that your instrument is only able to capture a certain point of view, just like you can only capture a certain point of view.
And we can't rely too much on the instruments without understanding what the instruments are doing.
How do you go hunting?
If you do, how do you go hunting ghosts?
Well, you know, I just went on one last night.
And the first thing that I do is I go into an area and I try to measure everything I can measure about the area just to see if there's anything at all that stands out.
And so I will go in, of course, and I will, right off the bat, I'll just walk around and look and see if there's anything that just looks out of place to me.
Like, for example, I've been to haunted houses, quote unquote, haunted houses.
And someone will say, that corner over there is the haunted corner.
Because when you walk over there, you'll feel a little dizzy.
You'll feel a little lightheaded.
And we think there was a murder there.
And so I'll go over there and I'll say, yeah, sure enough, I do feel a little weird here.
But then I'll get down and take out my chapstick and put it on the floor.
And the chapstick will roll like crazy away from that corner because the corner is at a slant.
And that creates this impression.
And so before you jump in there with $10,000 worth of electronic equipment, you have to go in first off and you sort of just look at the situation and see if there's a logical explanation, an Occam's razor, as it's often called.
And then from there, of course, I'll start photographing it.
I have thermal cameras that I can use so I can see if there's a temperature anomaly that might account for something that people are experiencing.
I do have a variety of electromagnetic field meters and electrostatic detectors.
And sometimes I'm really intrigued by these pronounced electrostatic fields that you'll find at places that are haunted because I can take electrostatic fields in the laboratory and I can reproduce a lot of the things that people describe when they have contact with a ghost.
I can make their hair stand on end, give them cold chills, create three-dimensional light forms, Move objects around, physical objects without any visible cause.
These are a lot of the things that I can do in the lab.
And so I go down the list of just knowing what different types of energies can do to a person.
And then I look for those energies in that spot.
And I'm talking very specifically.
You know, a lot of people throw that word energy around just to, it's like some kind of an amorphous concept that they apply to whatever that they don't fully understand.
But no, I'm talking about very specific ways that energy manifests, whether it's heat or radiation or something that's in the visible or invisible spectrums, et cetera.
And then I just look at all that and put it together and say, is there anything here that stands out?
And if there is, well, then I try to see how repeatable that is.
And I go back and I try to find if there's a pattern, a correlation.
And from there, it just becomes the basic scientific method.
It starts with observing as much as you can, looking for possible patterns and correlations.
And if you find something that you can test, well, maybe create a hypothesis, adapt it to a lab experiment, and then eventually you might learn something new about the cause and effect here.
So those people who frequently, as we say here, poo-poo, ghost investigators, because they're non-scientific.
They do it all by instinct and sometimes they're incredibly wrong, as we see on some of these TV shows.
Those people would love you, the ones who say that it's not scientific, because you are doing science.
But are you trying to tell me, Joshua, that in most cases, if not all, then things that people attribute to the work of ghosts, whatever they might be, are all in fact scientific phenomena.
They are, I don't know, variations in the Earth's magnetic field, electromagnetic, magnetic currents, that sort of stuff.
Is that what you're telling me?
Well, I think in most cases, we have some type of an explanation for what someone considers a ghost that does come from natural phenomena or something that is an unintentional side effect from some artificial structure.
So a lot of times you'll find, for example, people have these amazing experiences around something that's large and made of metal.
In fact, last night I was investigating a haunted playground.
And so when I went to the playground, I was amazed because it was right here.
And I'm joining you right now from Las Vegas, Nevada.
And this was a town nearby.
And so there was this gigantic metallic structure shaped like a cone that had all the swings and the slides coming from it.
And of course, it's very dry here in the desert.
And sometimes you get a nice wind blowing and you get a charge that builds up on this thing.
And the whole thing can kind of act like a big antenna.
And I can see why under certain circumstances, you might even go there and see something glowing.
It's like a St. Elmo's fire type of an effect.
And so in many cases, what we have are things that are just a wondrous but natural, unexpected part of how the planet works.
There is that sliver of maybe I would say 10% when it does seem, however, like that there is something truly ghostly happening, meaning that we are interacting with something that is usually non-physical.
You know, I had to struggle with how to define a ghost because some people they say, oh, the ghost is the spirit of a dead person.
Well, that's ridiculous because we have ghosts of inanimate objects, trains, horses, plus the stagecoaches they're pulling, ghost ships and all that.
A few weeks ago, I spoke with a paranormal group in Northern Ireland, County Antrim.
And there there is a place where there is regularly the sound of a, I think it's a disused railway line now, but the sound of a train horn.
You know, they can hear this ghostly sound at night, and it's reported by loads of people.
It's something that is very real for them.
And that's not necessarily apparitions of former people.
That's an object built by people, a train.
Absolutely.
And that's why the most basic definition of a ghost is a ghost is some paranormal aspect of the mental form and or physical presence that appears to exist apart from the original physical form.
Now, from there, we can break that down into a number of possibilities.
But the two main ones are, well, maybe what we have that we call an imprint.
Okay, this is something that is somehow recorded in the environment that replays itself under certain conditions.
And so this is something that might always appear redundant, predictable, non-interactive, non-aware, just like some kind of a movie, you know, like a 3D IMAX movie that's somehow recorded by some property of the Earth that we don't understand yet and replays when the conditions are right.
And how did we used to do radio and recording?
And I'm old enough to remember it, you know, we recorded to quarter-inch iron oxide tape.
So if quarter-inch iron oxide tape can take the impressions of sound, then how do we know that other factors within our environment can't also do that and replay?
Oh, absolutely.
Especially if you consider that, you know, the tape is a thin, two-dimensional slice.
And just think of all the complex layers of planet Earth that we don't even understand yet.
There may be a recording medium all around us, not to mention the fact that now all of the best cosmologists and astrophysicists are telling us that all time is taking place at once, past, present, and future, and we are just experiencing it little by little as our tiny little brains will allow us to comprehend it and process it.
And so if that's the case, it means that everything that has happened in the past is there somewhere, not to mention the future.
So that's one possibility.
So it's like a great big, I mean, a lot of kids don't remember these things, but you and I will remember, you know, LP records.
It's all like a great LP record, and it depends where you put the stylus.
Well, you know, speaking of that, when Thomas Edison invented the phonograph, the first device that would quote unquote record and playback Sound.
People at that time believed it was a hoax because it was understandable for the public to say, You can't record a sound.
What is a sound?
A sound is this abstract, non-tangible thing.
Nobody can record a sound.
They could not comprehend that.
And so Edison would go out and he would do these demos in person and people would still accuse him of using a ventriloquist or some type of a hidden tube.
And what's amazing is we realize how simple his invention was.
It was a wax cylinder that had a needle on it attached to a funnel, basically.
And he wasn't maybe technically recording the sound, but he was recording an impression of that sound that he could work with.
And this shows you how the idea of things being recorded may not be as complex as one would imagine just because it seems to be an abstract thing.
We didn't actually explain what you discovered last night then, as we record this, its last night, at this play yard in Las Vegas.
Was there something that was worthy of investigation or was it simply, as you say, static and the wind?
Yeah, well, you know, the other type of ghost would be an entity.
And an entity is some type of a ghost that is very much like you would imagine as the spirit that escapes the body upon death.
And these would be the opposite of an imprint, being that they are interactive, unpredictable, seem to be aware, conscious, all that sort of just disembodied.
So we go in and the idea is, well, are we necessarily going to find one of these or the other?
Or is, you know, there's always that third option that this could be some type of an effect.
So at this particular playground, the story has been for years that there was a boy killed in a car accident.
He was hit by a car actually nearby.
And so he haunts this playground.
And I did, in fact, of course, I always, when I can, I start with historical research.
And I did indeed find an account, a very well-verified account of a boy who died under similar circumstances.
So that part may be true.
So people would say they would see this boy at the playground at night.
And then, but the weirdest thing was a lot of the people that I talked to, and I interviewed eyewitnesses, said that if you approached this little boy, he would transform into some kind of a very hideous, scary looking thing.
And at that point, everybody would just run and the report would end.
And so I thought, well, is this just part of, you know, putting that final touch on the campfire story?
Or is this something that people actually believe they are seeing?
Because this may mean we're not talking about the ghost of a little boy.
We're talking about something that looks like a little boy.
And then you get up there and find, oh, this ain't a little boy, right?
So you're talking about a combo.
You may be talking about a complex phenomenon that can change the way that it appears to people.
That's exactly right.
And I also do believe that topas are real, which that's a whole other area we can get into if you want.
But as far as what I found last night during my preliminary investigation, I did not ever see a little boy or anything apparitional.
All of my pictures I've looked at so far turned out normal.
But what I was struck by was how on this really calm night at this somewhat remote location, my electromagnetic field meters, especially the ones that were picking up radio microwave and oddly enough, my Geiger counters were both going nuts.
Now, I kind of expected that my radio microwave background would be kind of crazy because of this big metallic structure.
I wasn't expecting to find an elevated level of alpha background radiation.
That's still kind of a weird one.
But then beyond that, often I would find that these seats, these big heavy swing seats, would have a strong negative charge on them.
So long story short, there was a very, there was a pocket there of chaotic energies that were mainly composed of electromagnetic with some electrostatic anomalies right there where people are having these sightings.
So that means one of two things may be the case here.
Either number one, people are going there and they're experiencing some strange effect that they describe as ghostly, or, and this is where we really get out there, Howard, there may be some type of what we would think of as a portal there that is being created unintentionally by all of these fields.
And a portal would simply be a spot where phenomena that are physical or non-physical are able to more easily interact under certain circumstances.
And so I think, you know, from my first investigation there, there's something happening at this spot, but now I have to go back and repeat that and just see under different circumstances what I get.
Oh, look.
I'm no scientist, never have been.
I was rubbish at school.
But what's occurred to me now is what we might call a portal that you've just described.
If we subscribe to the view that everything that ever has happened or ever will happen is all there simultaneously, it merely has to be accessed in some way.
If that is the case, then maybe portals are ways that forces here congress and coalesce in order to create a portal or somehow to access another part of that continuum.
And whatever's happening in that continuum appears in the place where those forces all coalesce.
That's a beautiful description.
Yeah, I think you're absolutely right.
That may be what is occurring here, which is why that I'm so interested in these space-time anomalies.
You know, the last time we chatted, I mentioned that I'd found a strange space-time anomaly.
And it may be that that's really a big key here to many of these profound mysteries that we consider paranormal.
And the reason that they've been so hard to solve is because time is one of the greatest mysteries we can imagine.
And we know it's connected to space, apparently.
So, space-time is something we still can't quite wrap our heads fully around.
And so, this may be why the ghosts, UFOs, and aliens, and psychic phenomena, and these weird cryptids, and all these things continue to officially elude us because we're not going to really be able to understand where they come from and how we experience them without understanding more about how space-time works and how it can be bent and shaped and distorted,
and how sometimes that happens naturally and we just sort of stumble upon it.
Or sometimes we might be able to help it along and force it a little bit, which is some of the work that I do in the laboratory.
Okay, now, the last time we spoke, you say, as you said quite rightly, we discussed this strange time anomaly that you say you've discovered near Las Vegas.
And I've got a little paragraph here about this.
And I think we spoke around about June, July, I think, about this, when you were making international headlines.
And this little piece I've said, I've got here says, Joshua P. Warren made international headlines with his announcement that he discovered a time warp outside of Las Vegas, Nevada.
Warren says he detected a spot in the desert in which time itself was observed to slow down by 20 milliseconds.
Now, you were telling me on my radio show, and we didn't have an awful lot of time to talk.
You know, we were under, as usual, we were under time pressure, that you'd observed this, you had a device that could measure it, and you were going to do further tests to see what might be going on.
So I'm wondering where we're at now.
Well, I have now taken measurements at other spots around Las Vegas, as well as some in California.
And now, of course, Nevada is a very big state, and so I especially want to work my way all around this state.
But so far, I have not documented another anomaly.
Now, I did have to travel for a while, so that sort of delayed my project here.
But ultimately, it shows you just how unusual this anomaly was.
But something that I find quite remarkable is that I learned that during that same month, around that same time of that same month in June, when I got this anomaly, the U.S. military was testing out some new devices at Nellis Air Force Base, which was nearby.
And this was put into the mainstream news as being a new type of nuclear bomb.
It's a deep earth-penetrating bomb that's supposed to be the most impressive type of nuclear weapon ever created.
That's the official report.
But who knows what the military is actually up to out there around Nellis and Area 51.
So I must say it's possible that I just got really lucky that day, and I happened to be in an area where some testing was going on, and I picked up a side effect from that.
Now, I don't think, I mean, even if that's the case, it's still remarkable because there's nothing they should be testing that would create a time anomaly.
But nonetheless, I tend to think that as we continue to get out there and travel around the world and take readings, that we will eventually find that there are natural space-time anomalies like this that are far more common than we've ever imagined.
And we'll find many of those at places like the Bermuda Triangle or Brown Mountain where the Brown Mountain Lights exist.
A lot of places that are maybe sacred sites have always had sort of a mystical or metaphysical reputation.
So literally, it's a question of putting a pin in a map and finding a likely site, going there and trying it out.
That could turn out to be very time-consuming and expensive, couldn't it?
Yes, it certainly will be.
As a matter of fact, I am thinking, well, now that I've spent over 25 years traveling to various places around the planet and taking measurements, now I have to go back and revisit all of them now that I have this new tool.
But that's why I also hope a lot of other people will get out there and participate in this project because, you know, when I discovered that anomaly at that site, I had no idea that that was one of the most active UFO hotspots in the entire state, where some of the most amazing footage of UFOs has been filmed, where people have had full-blown close encounters.
In fact, I was contacted by a man named Sean Kevin Jason, who went out to that site with me after he heard about my work, told me about a close encounter he had there in 1996.
I got this all on video.
He had one of these big black triangular craft hovering right over his car for a full 10 minutes.
And he was so overcome by the whole thing.
He had a friend who is a toy maker build a model of this UFO, which he brought to the site with us and sort of told us on camera exactly what had happened to him.
Of course, all this stuff is on my website.
And so the point is, though, when I found this anomaly, I didn't know any of that.
And it turns out, whoa, this little nondescript spot on the side of the road in the middle of the desert has this incredible history with ufology.
And so now I'm thinking, well, what if this happens all over the place, where if we take the areas where we find anomalies and we overlay them with these places where people describe paranormal experiences, we're going to find they match up and reveal some kind of a pattern.
So that leaves us with a bit of a problem, doesn't it, really?
The time anomaly there, is it a byproduct of visitations by something?
Is it something that they've left behind?
Or is it something that's encouraging them to come?
Which way around is it?
Well, and you know what?
There may be even more than that.
I mean, okay, let's say that this is also the product of military experimentation, but maybe the experimentation is happening because that's where the UFOs are visiting.
And it may be that the UFOs are visiting that spot because there's a natural anomaly there that attracted them.
So this becomes very messy indeed when you start looking at all of these possibilities being connected in some way.
That maybe this was a spot, let's say if You're the pilot of the flying saucer and you're looking down at planet Earth through your screen, you're able to see certain places that are easier to navigate because of, let's say, a weaker gravitational field.
And so the craft goes to that spot, but because this spot is being frequented, now the military becomes interested in that spot.
And the military is trying to reproduce the technology they're seeing.
And so you have three different things that may all be sort of contributing to this one area.
And so, yeah, sorting all that out takes time.
And it's, but it's a lot of fun.
And it makes you think about a lot of different facets of what's possible.
Well, there are a few things I guess you could do now.
And I say I'm no expert here, but you could either camp out at that site and just stay there and see what happens over the space of, say, 365 days, which, again, is time-consuming and expensive.
Or you might consider doing something completely left-field and take your equipment to somewhere like CERN, site of the Large Hadron Collider, and see if anything is happening there.
Yeah, well, you know, that has been suggested to me, and I don't know if they would be open to that, though, because, you know, one of the things that scares scientists about me is that I am completely independent.
And I, you know, there's nobody who can fire me, so to speak.
I mean, I don't work for a university.
I'm not looking for tenure.
I don't receive any grant money or any tax money.
And so whatever I find in whatever I say, however crazy it may seem to the general public, is something they can't control that's unpredictable.
Well, I'm guessing they're not going to let you into the building, I would have thought, if they know what you're planning to do.
But, you know, they can't stop you from, unless there's more control over this world than we know, and maybe there is.
They couldn't stop you parking in the road outside.
Well, that's true.
I could see how close I could get.
Yeah.
And I would love to do that because that might be one of the best candidates in the world to find something like this.
I know it's very deep underground, hundreds of feet underground in certain places.
And there's a lot of controversy about CERN in general.
Personally, I don't think that what they're doing is dangerous.
I know a lot of people fear what they're doing.
Well, there are people who've been writing in newspapers only recently that what they're doing there might conjure up a black hole or something or might shrink this planet into something that is just, one guy said, one scientist said that the possibility might be that it would shrink this planet and everything on it into a space 30 meters wide, about 35 yards, what's that?
About 100 feet, isn't it?
Wide.
I'm useless at math, but I think that's what it is, which is an astonishing thought, were it to be correct?
Yeah, well, it's astonishing, all right.
And, you know, I think that humans are, they tend to be so egocentric that we overrate what we're capable of doing.
I mean, I don't think that humans can create something that powerful.
I just don't think we're capable.
But I must say, if instantly the entire Earth shrank and it was just lights out for all of us, that wouldn't be so bad.
We'd all get to go at the same moment and you don't have to watch all your friends and loved ones die.
You know, I've had a lot of friends who live to be almost 100 years old and they say, gosh, the worst part about being old is you get to watch everybody else die, you know?
And so I don't think it's that scary of a thought, but I really don't see that humans have that much grasp on how reality works to do something of that level of danger.
Josh, you're in Vegas, and that does seem to be a hotspot for everything weird and paranormal, and has been for many years.
I mean, the great Art Bell was based, God rest his soul, not very far from there and did a lot of great work, and we all still miss him.
I interviewed at the weekend on my radio show the maker of a, well, Jeremy Corbell, you probably know him, the maker of a documentary that's coming out about Bob Lazar, the man who said that he worked at S4, which was part of Area 51, which was back engineering alien technology.
Now, the center of all of that is roughly where you are.
Are you hearing anything about him or that?
Yeah, well, interestingly, about, gosh, I'd say maybe three years ago, I was one of the speakers at the International UFO Congress, which is held annually in Scottsdale, Arizona.
And that year was a very special one because for the first time ever, Bob Lazar agreed to take the stage live and be interviewed by George Knapp, who is, of course, a very well-known journalist here in Vegas who covers especially the UFO activity.
Well, he is many ways Mr. Las Vegas, yeah.
Yeah.
And so my wife and I, we had great seats to sit there and watch this.
And I was so impressed with Bob Lazar's sense of integrity.
He seemed so believable to me.
I was joking to my wife.
I think the Academy Awards were that weekend.
I said, this guy deserves the award if he's lying because, I mean, he seemed so genuine.
And he said that when he was working there at Area 51, he was tasked with back engineering certain UFO parts.
And what struck me was he said that one engine he had was not very big.
It was about maybe the size of a basketball.
But he said that it had the ability to distort space-time.
That, for example, if you would put a candle right next to it, the candle flame would just freeze in midair.
And he also said that you could reach out.
If you were slow, you could slowly reach out and touch it.
But if you threw an object like a baseball at it, it would bounce away from a force field that extended a couple feet away.
So anyway, he had all these stories about how there was something about this engine that's manipulating gravity and space-time.
And so that was why I originally decided to go out and start taking measurements with this new meter.
It was good timing because I was looking for an excuse to go to Area 51.
And about that time Is when Ronald Heath invented this meter that he sent to me and gave me the opportunity to be the first person to use it.
This is the DT meter, yeah.
Yeah, that's right.
The DT meter, the differential time rate meter.
And my plan was to just drive from Vegas up to Area 51, spend the night nearby, and then drive back and take control measurements along the way there and back.
And I imagine that maybe if there is this huge facility where they're working on space-time technology, as I get closer to Area 51, maybe I'll start picking up anomalies.
And then as I get farther away, they'll drop off.
And that would be a fascinating story.
But what happened was it turned out that there was, I didn't measure anything unusual around Area 51.
And I stayed there till late at night.
I used every type of toy I have.
There was, I did pick up some weird radio waves, but that I'm sure is just from some basic surveillance that they do.
And then, but so I was really kind of frustrated that I didn't get anything around Area 51.
But then it made it even more intriguing that I did get this pronounced anomaly right there, you know, in the middle of the desert, 20 miles north of Las Vegas.
So I don't know if they really are working on space-time warping technology there.
I haven't heard anything new about that.
But what I do know is that every single weekday, there's a whole separate section of the airport here called the Janet Airlines that loads up thousands of people and flies them to Area 51 to work for the day and flies them back in the evening.
And this town is full of people who are working on secret projects.
And I told my wife, it'd be interesting if one day everybody who works for the government wore a red t-shirt or something like that to see how many of them are actually distributed all throughout the community here.
And Bob Lazar, of course, there is nothing very much to prove that he did any of those things.
All we have for it, and even when the documentary comes out, I think on December the 3rd or thereabouts, you know, will be very largely his word.
Yeah.
Well, and of course, even the site where he would go with his friends to watch some of the tests and doing this illegally, by the way.
I mean, he was not supposed to share any of his work, of course, and he would invite buddies to go up at night when he knew they were going to be testing stuff to watch some of the craft go up in the air.
Even those areas have now been restricted that he used.
So that's one thing I find interesting.
Well, I mean, that's good corroboration, isn't it?
Because if there was nothing going on there, then they wouldn't have to restrict them.
That's exactly right.
Yeah.
And so I envy those people who had that window of time when they were able to access those really great overlooks and viewpoints.
So, yeah, so that is some kind of corroboration.
And not to mention the fact that when he was talking about the work at Area 51, there was still zero government acknowledgement that there was any type of a military installation there.
But now that has since changed.
The government has finally admitted that there is a military installation there.
They still won't say what they're doing and what it's for.
But little by little, we are seeing that other things he said have they're turning out to be true.
And so I have no reason to doubt that he was working on some type of exotic technology.
And I tell you what, this letter, I don't know if you read this letter that recently was released that Senator Harry Reid, who is the Senate majority reader, excuse me, Senate majority leader, wrote to the Office of the Secretary of Defense.
But this letter is, to me, it's a smoking gun letter because he says we have acquired exotic technologies that have incredible implications for weaponry, propulsion, communication, et cetera.
And he said we must take every measure possible in order to increase security because this could have catastrophic results if it falls into the hands of our adversaries.
And so what he is saying is the government discovered something exotic, but it didn't come from anybody else because we don't want anybody else to get it.
So that clearly indicates they're talking about some type of technology that is not of this planet.
And if you've never seen this letter, if you go to joshuapewarren.com and scroll down the homepage, down toward the bottom, I believe there's a link that says something about, you know, Harry Reid PDF.
And this is verified.
It's the real thing.
And you can read this and all the topics that they have listed that are part of the Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification.
Otherwise known as ATIP.
Yeah.
And they list all these topics except for one, which is still redacted.
So who knows what that is?
But nonetheless, little by little, we are seeing more and more evidence that what Bob Lazar was saying was correct.
And I think that what I found there on my way to Area 51 may have some connection to it.
And the man who may have a key to some of this is, of course, Luis Elizondo, the man who ran that program for a while and went public for whatever reasons just before Christmas last year.
Yeah, well, you know, it's to me, what's happening with him and even with Senator Harry Reid at this point is a good example of how I think that government programs are always set up to be so compartmentalized that if and when the day comes when somebody involved in the project decides to go and speak out as a civilian, that person will only know so much.
And so I think that Elizondo is probably telling us everything he knows at this point, but there's a lot that he doesn't know.
And I remember one time I was interviewing Nick Pope, and he said that the, well, in discussions of the protocol for how to deal with some type of possible alien invasion or whatever, that he and his colleagues realized that they were discussing some matters that were, quote, too sensitive to commit to paper, end quote.
So, some of this really secret stuff has never quite written down for obvious reasons.
And so, people have limited memories.
And so, there is a lot of information that's strewn around amongst a lot of people.
And that's the way they want it.
And astonishing, isn't it, that there was no, as far as we know, written protocol for dealing with any contact event or something astonishing like that, which is why Nick very recently sat down and wrote one, which appeared in all the newspapers here, and I spoke to him about.
You know, we're living in interesting times, I think.
The other thing that has really fired people's interest even more recently, and we know that the phenomenon has been around for years, is the idea of Bigfoot, Sasquatch, Yaoi in Australia, the Yeti, whatever you want to call it, these cryptozoological bipedal creatures that seem to bear a great similarity to each other.
We even have them here in the UK, even been reports of sightings in places like South Wales.
You know, there seem to be more and more of these sightings.
Only last week, you might have read in the world's media that somebody discovered, I think it was a three-foot-long axe or implement, that it is believed in Australia belonged to a yaoi, belonged to one of these cryptozoological bipedal creatures.
You know, I've always been intrigued with that as well.
In fact, I have spent time out in the field with, you know, some of the top cryptozoologists.
And in fact, one of my good friends, Christian McLeod, is the president of a cryptid society.
And, you know, I appreciate everybody's view on something like Bigfoot, but I feel that Bigfoot cannot be a normal physical biological organism.
And that's because we have gotten really good at documenting normal physical biological organisms.
And we should have more hair, more scat, more footprints, just, you know, dead bodies.
We should have a lot more evidence if these are some kind of a normal, and by normal, I mean like an ape or something.
Yeah, I mean, for example, they have to die, presumably.
And if they die, where do they go?
And all of this suggests, and more and more people seem to be saying, as you say, that there may be some mystical element about them.
I think that's the only way to reconcile the lack of physical evidence with the sincerity of the witnesses and the limited bits of evidence that we do have.
And it kind of goes back to this idea that maybe time plays an integral part of how these things sort of materialize.
So, you know, the element of time is easy to understand with ghosts because people are often seeing scenes from the past.
With a UFO, it's kind of easy because people experience missing time and we have a lot of reports along those lines.
But with cryptids, again and again, you have that story where somebody is, they're chasing after Bigfoot and he just vanishes.
And maybe even the footsteps or the footprints just end right there in mid-pathway.
Well, where did he go?
Well, if Bigfoot somehow teleported or was raptured away, well, that means he has changed his position in space.
And since space-time are, you know, they're one component, well, here we have time also being changed.
So I think it's much more likely if we are to accept the legitimacy of these reports that we are dealing with something that is more of an interdimensional type of a manifestation, because I just cannot see how that we would not have more evidence if this were a mere flesh and blood creature.
And it would be very neat if that was the case, because given the things that we talked about at the beginning of this conversation, if we're getting near to a theory of time that everything that has ever existed, ever does exist and ever will exist is all there.
It's just a question of how you access it.
If that's the case for ghosts, then it may be the case for Bigfoot and Yaoi and all the rest of them.
And it may explain everything that we regard at the moment as anomalous.
Oh, yeah, you're absolutely right.
I mean, anything that ever has existed or will exist might be able to make an appearance once in a while.
And I occasionally have people who say to me, well, come on, if ghosts are real, and we've had, who knows, maybe a trillion people who've lived on this planet, you know, why don't we have ghosts everywhere?
And I think of it as being sort of like fossils.
I mean, look how many dogs and cats and fish have lived on this planet, but very rarely do you find a fossil from one of them.
And you find the fossil because a certain set of conditions just so happen to be right for this impression of this form to be somehow preserved.
And so maybe the same thing happens within other layers of this planet, energetic layers, dimensional layers that sometimes, it's not to say there aren't things all around us, but sometimes the conditions are just right where you're able to see an impression.
And that's when you have that moment where you say, whoa, what just happened there?
It's easier sometimes to second guess yourself.
And when it comes to animal ghosts, how often might we have seen animal ghosts and didn't even know it was a ghost?
Because, you know, you see some stray cat, some squirrel or bird flying overhead, and you don't follow them and see what happens to them.
We might see ghosts of these kinds of creatures all the time and not even realize what's happening.
I was told a great story.
I sadly can't remember who told it to me on the air a few weeks back, of an investigation somewhere in England where regular observations were made of a cat that walked through the wall of a pub.
I mean, all of that would fit the theory.
Maybe we've just come up with the answer to all things.
Of course, that would put us all out of business and off the air then.
If we can explain it, then it's time to put it over to the scientists, I suppose.
Yeah, that's one of the funny things.
I consider that the blessing and the curse of being a paranormal investigator, whatever we want to call it, because the moment it slips over from paranormal into normal, then I think the real scientists will step and say, we'll take it from here, boys, you know, and they'll forget about those of us who.
The grown-ups do it now.
Yeah, yeah.
And so, but, you know, I understand that's how it works.
And that's why you just have to accept that you're always going to be on the fringe.
And if what you're saying ever starts making too much sense, then you need to change your field of study.
Well, I think that's true.
I don't think I'll ever be in danger of making too much sense, Joshua.
So look, you're a man who does so many different things.
You are a multi-level individual in so many ways.
What is the thing right now, as we speak at the end of 2018, that is exciting you most and that you want to do more work on?
Because maybe it's the time slip, but tell me.
Well, that's certainly something that I will be doing whenever I have a chance to get out and travel around.
But, you know, I mentioned I have a museum and laboratory in my hometown of Asheville, North Carolina.
And so I've decided to build a laboratory here in the Las Vegas area.
This will be a really big, elaborate, I mean, the most elaborate that I've ever created.
It's going to take me years to get it all assembled.
And it's going to possibly be a show lab as well so that people can come in sometimes and observe experiments that I do.
And so while I'm building it, I'm going to be doing experiments at the same time.
And one thing that I'm really excited about is a field that I created last year called Parasymatics.
And basically, it has to do with taking different types of tones that you incorporate a message into and then playing them through water and observing the patterns that form in the water through a variety of different types of light,
infrared light, ultraviolet light, laser light, extracting the pattern from it and creating some kind of a sigil or a symbol to see if it can somehow relay or broadcast the original qualities that were put into the tone.
But I have come up with a new way.
I'm 98% there, not 100% there.
This is a brand new, brand new technique of reversing the process so that I should be able to take any kind of an image, like let's say a crop circle or let's say an overhead view of Stonehenge or maybe even a hieroglyph or something like that, put it into the system and extract a tone from the image.
So in other words, let's say we look at a crop circle and we see there's an interesting design, but we don't know what it means.
Well, what if we could hear what that design sounds like?
This new technique that I'm creating will allow us to go through and take all of these amazing images that we've researched from, you know, all throughout history and listen to them and have another way of experiencing them.
One of my challenges right now is what is the best point of view to use because that becomes an issue when you start breaking this down.
So that's a long enough topic that we could do a whole separate podcast about.
Which I would love to do.
I mean, it sounds to me like that is knocking on the door of teleportation.
Well, it could.
I mean, you know, because what teleportation ultimately is about is learning how to transition the same kind of energy from one form and place to another.
You could also think of it as what an engineer would call transduction, the ability to transduce or change one energy form to another energy form.
And so it might be knocking on the door.
I still think, you know, teleportation is certainly a possibility, and we may live long enough to see some pretty interesting little things teleported.
But the first thing is to sort of understand the relationship between physical form and an acoustic form and an electromagnetic form and things like that.
Well, I think you might be knocking on the door of something really, really interesting there, Joshua, because we do know that the ancient Egyptians, and I think the Mayans, understood the power of sound.
We're only just beginning to get our heads around this.
Yeah, oh, sure.
I think that's a big part of what they realize that sound is a very perceptible indication of how other types of energy fields are behaving that are not usually as perceptible.
So, for example, you can take something like a parabolic dish and you can speak into the middle of it.
And if you're standing at the right spot, you'll hear yourself speaking back to yourself.
And yet, if you transmit an electromagnetic field into that spot, it'll do the same thing.
It'll bounce back on itself.
So the acoustic representation would have been the easiest way for them to get a handle on how these shapes might be affecting other energy fields that were doing things that they couldn't quite understand.
And it may be that actually gravity plays into all this as well, because I found that some of the most active paranormal hotspots in the world tend to have a lower gravitational strength.
And some of the places we consider sacred sites have a higher gravitational strength.
And therefore, it might be that if more paranormal activity happens at those places where there's paranormal phenomena, those are places that scared people back in the old days.
And so they would go to places where there was less phenomena.
And that's where they would build their temple, their shrine, their sacred protective site.
I think we have just laid the foundations for our next conversation, if you're up for that.
Absolutely.
Yeah, I can go on and on.
Let's do it in a couple of months.
I love speaking with you, Joshua.
I have no idea how to describe you.
We have a term here in Europe, Renaissance Man.
I think in a lot of ways, that's what you are.
But thank you so much.
Let's just remind people what your website is.
Absolutely.
My website is joshuapwarren.com.
There is no period after the pee.
And if you go there, you will find all kinds of interesting, free images and video.
I have a whole section called Gallery of the Strange that shows you many mind-boggling things.
There's a curiosity shop there that has a lot of rare items that you're only going to find on my website.
And of course, I'm constantly updating it with new information.
But Howard, it's been a great pleasure.
I've loved this conversation.
I cannot wait for us to dig into some more juicy topics.
So thank you again.
Thanks for having me on.
And listen, if enthusiasm was power, then you could drive a whole city.
Thanks, Joshua.
The remarkable Joshua P. Warren, a man who's a dynamo of enthusiasm.
Thank you very much for being part of this show.
If you've got guest suggestions to make or anything you want to see, go to my website, theunexplained.tv.
Follow the link and you can message me from there.
And don't forget the rule, which I mentioned at the beginning of the show.
Tell me who you are, where you are, and how you use this show.
Thank you very much.
More great guests coming up as we come to the end of 2018.
So until next we meet, my name is Howard Hughes.
This has been the Unexplained and please stay safe, stay calm, and above all, please stay in touch.
Thank you very much.
Take care.
▲
Export Selection