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Oct. 4, 2018 - The Unexplained - Howard Hughes

01:05:11

Edition 364 - John Eagan

John Eagan became famous by writing a "dating tips" book - now he says he has "seen thedevil"...

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	Across the UK, across continental North America, and around the world on the internet, by webcast and by podcast, my name is Howard Hughes and this is The Unexplained.
	Well, thank you very much for all of your emails and communications.
	I know that there are some people who don't like me talking about the weather here in London, so I'm not going to say too much, but at the moment I'm recording this on a gorgeous autumnal golden early evening.
	And it's one of those days when, you know, it's kind of nice to be alive.
	You know, there are days when it's perhaps less so, but this is one of those days.
	It's a little colder, and certainly it isn't the blazing heat of summer now, so we're sliding into autumn and then inexorably, if that's the word, on towards winter.
	But, you know, I like this time of year when the sky is blue and clear and, you know, the trees are starting to turn golden.
	It's rather lovely.
	I mean, it's not quite New England, but it's pretty nice here.
	And, you know, as I say, it's one of those times of year that we like.
	So that's the weather and conditions report from here.
	Like I say, thank you very much for your communications.
	I'm not going to do shout-outs on this edition, but thank you very much to people like Jamie who've suggested guests for the show.
	And I will get on to those things.
	And in fact, I am filtering them through as we speak.
	Your thoughts on the show, always welcome.
	You know, to some extent, it's a great balance that we do here.
	There are people who are always going to say, oh, you interrupt too much or you don't ask enough questions and you let that person get away with this or that or whatever.
	And then there are people who say you have too little science on the show and people who say you have too much science on the show.
	So it's like being a juggler in a circus, I think.
	You've got to keep all those balls spinning and you've got to try not to let any of them drop.
	Inevitably, we do from time to time.
	But, you know, we do our best here.
	And I'm kind of proud that, you know, we are a free show and heard around the world, but we can always be better.
	So please let me know what you think and what we could do to make it better for you.
	The guest on this edition is what I guess you can call an extraordinary story.
	John Egan in New Jersey, originally from Brooklyn, New York, had, he says, an amazing experience where he claims he came face to face with, I guess you could call it the devil, who had a message for him.
	Now, we have to say straight up front, and if he was here right now, he would say exactly the same thing.
	He's going to be here in a minute.
	But he is a religious man.
	And you will hear that religion is part of his life, part of his family's life.
	And that, I think, certainly plays into this story.
	But it's an extraordinary story that is best explained in his words.
	So I'm going to let him tell the story.
	And, you know, obviously I will interject when I need to.
	And we'll see where we go from there.
	I don't know what to make of the story.
	I need your help with that.
	But I think it's going to be an astonishing listen.
	So thank you very much for your attention on this edition of The Unexplained.
	And like I say, if you have guest suggestions or anything you want to say, go to my website designed by Adam from Creative Hotspot in Liverpool.
	It's theunexplained.tv and you can communicate with me from there.
	At the moment, I'm feeling slightly sorry for myself.
	I think I mentioned my various expensive dental dilemmas.
	At the moment, I'm missing one tooth.
	I had an extraction recently, and it was a big one, and it's had me really worried.
	But I think I'm sounding reasonably clear in spite of it all.
	And that's the start of a dental journey that they tell me will be going on for months.
	And that's my fault for trying to save money by not addressing these things earlier.
	So if I have a message for you, if you have any worries about your teeth, you know, assuming that you can, get them sorted earlier rather than later.
	And you'll thank me for that advice.
	And I wish I'd taken that advice a little earlier myself, but we are where we are.
	So that's my little world spinning around.
	All right, let's get to New Jersey now.
	John Egan and a quite remarkable story.
	John Egan, thank you for coming on my show.
	It's an honor to be here, Howard.
	Now, you are originally from New York City, and you're not very far away from there now, across the water in New Jersey.
	So, you know, people in that area, from my experience, which is pretty extensive of that area over the years, is that it makes you kind of tough, but there's a warmth with it too.
	Do you agree?
	Yeah, I definitely agree with that.
	Sure.
	I mean, the people here are wonderful.
	I think they are in your country, too.
	I mean, I believe that.
	I mean, in New York, they're just wonderful.
	If you drop something or you fall down, they're not going to step on your head and walk over here.
	They can help you up.
	It's true.
	I mean, it is probably the oldest urban myth, I think, in the world that New York is an unfriendly place.
	I've been there a lot of times, and it's been a while since I've been there.
	It's been about a decade or so, but there was a time when I was there all the time.
	And I never once found it unfriendly.
	I found people stopping to talk to me in the street, which is the exact opposite of what people tell you, you know?
	Absolutely.
	And they love your accent.
	People in this country love that accent.
	Listen, I went to buy, this is a true story.
	People wouldn't believe it looking at me now, but I went to buy a burger at McDonald's on Times Square years ago, my first visit to New York, and I was a kid.
	And the woman who was serving me the burger could not stop to serve me the burger.
	She just froze.
	And she said, oh, my God, you sound and look like Piers Brosnan.
	That's a true story.
	I've never been accused.
	I've had the occasional Richard Gere comment, but not Piers Brosnan back in those days.
	But that was my funny accent that did it.
	But anyway, look, the picture that we're going to paint here is that, and one thing that came out from stuff that I've heard from you online, just researching this, skimming through stuff, is that you are, by the sounds of it, a very grounded individual.
	But talk to me about you before we talk about the extraordinary things that you say have happened to you.
	Yeah, right.
	Well, yeah, basically, you know, what I want to talk about is, well, every time I hear of an encounter that a person has with a ghost or an angel or a demon, I wonder about that person a little bit.
	You know, I'm a little bit skeptical myself.
	I wonder if he or she is a legitimate person.
	Are they a little crazy?
	Are they doing this for attention?
	That's why I want to give you a brief history about my life and who I am.
	You know, by this aberration I had, however, a small veil was lifted for a moment in time where I was able to peer in through a dimension unseen by most people.
	I could actually see through a threshold into the paranormal realm.
	I mean, we're all going to be faced with this dimension someday, that fifth dimension, no matter what you do, no matter where you live, no matter how you live in the end, we're all going to be standing on a precipice of that event horizon of that fifth dimension.
	And I'm not just talking to you, Howard.
	I'm talking not to a few of your listeners.
	I'm talking to everybody out there.
	Are you talking about when we die, or are you talking about there is going to be some great day of reckoning?
	Absolutely, yeah.
	And that's what I want to talk about tonight.
	When we die, or both of those things.
	Yeah.
	And when we die, I mean, for what we're going to talk about today, there's going to be forces when we die.
	And from some, and I believe now for many, evil forces that they're going to have to contend with.
	So tonight, we're going to give an understanding about those evil forces and how they will manipulate you in that paranormal realm.
	We're going to go from the ordinary world to the extraordinary world.
	And I think your listeners are going to be enlightened a lot on a deep level, more than they could possibly imagine right now.
	It's quite frightening.
	So be prepared.
	This apparition I had is the antithesis of any apparition I've ever heard or read about.
	And when we get into it, I think you're going to understand that.
	I mean, just how I think about it, how many times in the course of history does an entity break through a dimension to deliver a message?
	I could probably count it on my right hand and all.
	But you know that it sounds just the basic outline of what you're talking about.
	It's going to sound wacko to an awful lot of people.
	But one of the things that endeared me to you was in stuff that I've heard you do, including stuff on your own website, you confront that right up.
	Some people that I speak with, I have to put to them.
	And it's not because I'm a bad guy, but it's just because I have to put points to people that my listeners would want to put to them.
	So you have to say, you know that there are people who are going to say that you are nuts.
	But you refreshingly confront all of that stuff straight out of the box.
	That's what I would like to do.
	And I ask your listeners to be open-minded, be ready.
	I might not sleep that well tonight.
	They may even have some bad dreams.
	That's what people tell me.
	It's terrifying.
	It's jarring.
	This is the only book written that'll take you as close as humanly possible right into the devil's realm.
	And it's frightening, and I can guarantee that.
	And I'm not a crazy person.
	I'm not looking for attention now.
	But I mean, I was given talents in my life.
	I mean, I read a bit.
	I wrote a best-selling book about 20 years ago.
	I don't know if I have time to talk about it.
	You did.
	And I kind of peripherally remember this.
	This was a book about how to be successful with women in clubs, wasn't it?
	Yes, yeah.
	Because when I graduated college, I started as a special ed teacher.
	And I worked with kids that didn't have any qualities or attributes or characteristics that most kids had.
	But it didn't take a lot of my time.
	So I started working at night as a bartender.
	So I worked at night in a lot of nightclubs.
	And this is where I actually, I think this was a prerequisite of why this creature came into this house and possessed this house.
	And I had this aberration.
	Because I met a lot of people, a lot of great people, but I met a lot of people who were kind of on the darker side of things.
	They were looking for, of course, alcohol and drugs and anything they can possibly get their hands on.
	So in the meantime, though, I realized that men had a hard time communicating with women.
	So anytime I would, any club I worked in, if a good-looking lady was there, the guy would say to me, who's that girl?
	Should I buy her a drink?
	Shall I ask her a dance?
	Come on, go over and talk to her for me.
	And I would go over and try to break the ice for these guys.
	And I was thinking, why don't these guys know how to communicate with women?
	So by working as a kind of third party, you became an expert.
	In a way, but then I decided I'm going to interview women about the proper protocol, how to look, how to act, how to behave.
	What's turning them on when we're talking to them?
	What's turning them off when we're talking?
	How do we get that date?
	So I interviewed like 2,000 women in the nightclubs I worked at, on the street, in the malls, in women's gyms.
	And I realized it was an actual right answer for every question that I was asking.
	So then I put this book together called How to Get Dates or Pick Up Beautiful Women in Nightclubs or Any Other Place.
	Turns out to be a best-selling book, which was wonderful for me because it helped me retire.
	I retired early.
	Because of the book.
	Well, I have to say, it is on one level a great title, but in this day and age, when I saw that online today, I thought, oh, that sounds a little sleazy to me.
	But the description you give, it sounds like it's a kind of self-help guy, a guy for people who...
	From my experience, which is pretty limited, women want to be just, more than anything else, listened to.
	A lot of men steam in there and expect a woman to just listen to their entire story.
	And even in this day and age, they don't want to listen to anything that she's got to say.
	And that's awful, really.
	Yeah, really, by doing that.
	But that's the way life was in the 1970s and the 1980s, they tell me.
	So, you know, I understand the point of the book.
	And it clearly, if it didn't make you rich, it made you comfortable.
	Absolutely.
	Well, fortunately for me, I was doing a lot of TV shows and stuff.
	And Men's Fitness Magazine, which is a respected national publication in this country, saw me and said, you know, we want that book.
	We want to test your techniques.
	We want to see if this really works.
	We're going to test other top-selling books, too.
	So they did the article.
	They asked guys, just do what the book tells you.
	Don't do anything you think that works.
	So they did.
	They had guys do it.
	They wrote the article.
	They said that my book, 80 to 90% of the women that they approached got a phone number and a date.
	Every other book got 000.
	So that blew the book up, Howard.
	So I was just everywhere.
	I mean, people, you probably know Howard Stern.
	I don't know if you remember Howard Stern.
	Oh, absolutely.
	Still a fan.
	Oh, good.
	Very good.
	There are people going to hate me for saying that I'm a fan of Howard Stern, but as an operator on radio and television, he is incredible.
	He did an interview recently with Paul McCartney about the breakup of the Beatles, which you might have seen.
	That was absolutely masterful.
	It was one of the best interviews that I've ever seen.
	And that shows that that guy is incredibly astute and a great broadcaster.
	But I know I'm going to get email about that, but that's what I think.
	Well, he had 14 million listeners, so that was fine with me, you know.
	And they were the target of my audience, you know.
	But unbeknownst to me, I always thought it was like UPS drivers and taxi drivers used to listen to him.
	But all the judges and lawyers I know after I did that show, every time they saw me, I heard you on the Howard Stern show.
	Well, of course, back in the day, he was on WNBC.
	Yeah, that's right.
	Yeah, that's right, yeah.
	So that was him and all these other shows I did.
	So I just rode the wave with that.
	So I was able to retire.
	I mean, I didn't want to, you know, I was a special teacher.
	I love those kids and everything.
	I loved helping those kids.
	But I had the time now.
	And I was a bartender at night.
	I loved those people too.
	But as I told you, I met a lot of dark people at night.
	And a lot of these, Howard, a lot of these people, and I think this is a prerequisite of what happened, why they had this apparition in this house.
	These people, they were into a lot of dark things.
	And they were a lot of atheists.
	And then what happened?
	And a lot of drug addicts and stuff like that.
	And what happened to them was that a lot of them died from overdoses and accidents and suicides and cancers and things like that.
	And I felt kind of helpless for these people, you know?
	But I prayed every day.
	I always had a really good prayer life my whole life.
	And I think this is a part of the prerequisite of why I had this aberration in me.
	So are you coming to all of this that we're about to talk about from a religious perspective?
	Were you always a church-going boy?
	Oh, yeah.
	Well, I was born in Brooklyn.
	And back in the day, we went to a parochial school.
	I don't know how my dad did it.
	He had six of us kids.
	I don't know how he got us into a parochial school, but we were all, I was in an all-male parochial school.
	My sisters went to all girls parochial school, you know, and it was very regimented.
	Everybody went to church back then.
	The parents stayed together back then.
	You know, it was pretty solid.
	It wasn't an internet, how it, you know, people just hung out with each other and had a good time.
	But things have changed exponentially now because now with the internet, I mean, they did a study not that long ago, and they asked people, how many friends do you have that you feel close to that you could tell your problems to 20 years ago?
	And they said three people.
	And they did that exact same study today.
	How many people do you feel close to that you could tell your problems?
	And now it's down to one and a half.
	So I don't know if the internet is doing us any good or what's going on.
	You know what I'm saying?
	Well, there's an old line from a very old comedy show in the UK that you won't have heard and a lot of my listeners won't have heard.
	But the comedian was trying his hand at being a radio ham, you know, radio amateur operator.
	Yeah.
	And he was talking to people in Tokyo and all over the place.
	And one of the funny lines was he says, I've got friends all over the world.
	None in this country, but friends all over the world.
	And that's what the internet, I think, has done for an awful lot of people.
	You've got acquaintances and people you've casually connected with who are some of them might be your friends and a lot of them might not be your friends.
	But I think you've got a point, absolutely.
	I know.
	So it's a shame.
	So the picture that I'm getting of you is that, you know, you have been a pretty happy-go-lucky guy with a spiritual side that comes from your childhood.
	And that's where we are, what, in the 1980s, we're talking, the 1990s we're talking, weren't we?
	80s and 90s, right.
	And it really helped a lot that I worked with these poor special ed kids because it made me, as a normal person, felt blessed that I had these qualities that normal people have.
	And these poor children don't have them.
	Even some of them, Howard, has such terrible cancers in their head and jaws that I would just give them crayons and have them jaw in the lines.
	But their jaws would be so full of cancer that they would drool down and we'd wipe it away.
	I had teachers aid in the room and help me out with that.
	But I mean, these poor kids had nothing going from it.
	And I felt kind of special.
	And I felt like I needed to pay back for just being normal.
	So that's what brought on my spiritual life and my prayerful life, which I did about an hour and a half a day.
	I still do that to this day right now.
	But the people that I met at night, that I told you, they died from suicides and overdoses and accidents and cancers.
	I started praying for those people because I felt so helpless for them.
	I worked with a guy right next to me.
	His name was Chris.
	He was an atheist.
	He made fun of God.
	He made fun of Jesus.
	He made fun of the Virgin Mary.
	But then I worked with him for a couple of years, man.
	He smoked and drank every single night.
	And one day he didn't feel well.
	And he went to the doctor and he found out he had fourth stage cancer.
	He only lived for maybe a few more months after that.
	And I tried to go visit him and stuff.
	Tried to talk him back to getting back with God.
	But he was so bitter because of his diagnosis that he didn't want to hear anything about it.
	And he passed away.
	And how would it felt so helpless for the guy?
	So I decided all these people I knew, I felt that they were like lost souls or ships in the night without a rudder who would just go in any direction that you told them to go.
	And they wind up dying.
	I said to God, I'm going to pray for these souls as long as I live.
	Don't send them to hell until I'm finished praying for them.
	So that's what I kind of did.
	And everything seemed fine for years.
	And that's what I did for years and years and years.
	And everything was fine before this actual aberration.
	So that's what I think the prerequisite for this thing.
	But you would not describe yourself, I don't think.
	You sound very grounded and down to earth.
	It sounds like religion was a part of your life, but you're not a religious fanatic.
	No, I'm not a religious fanatic at all, but I do have a meditating prayer life for about an hour, an hour and a half every single day.
	Actually, I did a wonderful piece of artwork that was seen.
	I'm sure you saw it in your country.
	I did about two years ago.
	It's in Ripley's, Believe It or Not.
	It was in USA Today.
	That's one of the biggest publications in the world.
	They did a whole full page on it.
	My wife, she works in the Adoration Chapel here at the church, and when they put Jesus in the monster and say they burn candles, when the candles burn down, you're supposed to throw them out.
	Little be known to me, my wife is saving all those candles.
	So I'm in the basement.
	I said, what are you doing with boxes, boxes?
	What are you doing with these candles?
	They're like, you know, down to nothing.
	Aren't you supposed to throw them out?
	What are you waiting for?
	Like a 45-minute blackout so we can have a candle.
	She says, no, no.
	She said, these candles are so special.
	I kept you this company for so many hours.
	I couldn't throw them out.
	She goes, you're an artist.
	Why don't you do something with them?
	And I was thinking, yeah, it's true.
	I am an artist.
	That's important that you know that, by the way, that I am an artist because this apparition that I saw, I burnt that image into my mind and I was able to draw it.
	And actually, if you went to john-egan, e-ag-an.com, when we start talking about this abarition that I had, you could actually see a visual of it.
	I think the visual will help you out a lot.
	So I do, I take all these candles, about 50, 60 pounds of them.
	I melt them all down into a block, and I have the ability I can sculpt things too.
	So I sculpted out a wax bust of Jesus, a life-size wax bust of Jesus.
	it just got blew up.
	Like every newspaper wanted to do an article on it, and every magazine wanted to do an article on it.
	And Ripley's Believe It or Not wanted to buy it.
	I was like, You're not going to buy it.
	He might get a million dollars, and maybe you could buy it, but I'm not selling it.
	So it's in the 2018 edition of Ripley's, Believe It or Not, if you happen to have that book.
	All right.
	So how would you describe yourself at this stage then?
	Would you describe yourself as a lot of people are?
	You're an ordinary person.
	You have your faith.
	And I have my faith, and I'm praying for these souls, these lost souls that I felt so helpless for.
	Why did you feel that it was necessary for you to step in and try and save them?
	Because I knew them, Howard.
	I knew them on a personal level.
	When you work at night with them, you laugh with them and stuff.
	I know they were atheists, and I know they had a lot of problems, and I know they were drug addicts.
	But I mean, I'm there with them eight hours a night, you know, laughing and having a good time with them.
	I mean, there's a lot of nice people too, regular people, but I knew these people too.
	And I felt because I knew them personally that I kind of had an obligation to do something for them because the people that were around them, I knew they weren't going to pray for them.
	They weren't going to do anything for them in that next life.
	Of course, a libertarian would say that they have a right to live their lives any way they want, even if they're destroying themselves.
	It's kind of their right to do.
	If they want to throw themselves off a cliff, then you can try and nudge them in the appropriate direction not to do that.
	But beyond that, everybody has a free will, even if they're completely wrong.
	But you wanted to intervene.
	I did.
	Because another thing happened, I had nephews.
	We're all brought up to have morals and our extended family.
	I had nephews who were brought up that way, and they went to work in New York, and they became atheists.
	And I realized that somebody in their life came to them and took away their faith in God and their love for God and turned them into atheists.
	And when I try to talk to them, when the families get together, they just laugh.
	Oh, yeah, when God sticks his head out through the clouds, I'll believe again.
	But right now, there's no such thing.
	You know, he doesn't even laugh at me.
	But I realized that people could come and take your compassion.
	I also had, like, my wife helps these people in hospitals.
	And we were talking about some of these people in hospitals.
	Sometimes we bring them over here to have lunch and wheelchairs and stuff to have lunch and just to get away out of those hospitals.
	And a relative of mine said, those people are better off dead.
	And I know they weren't brought up that way.
	So somebody came in their life and took their compassion away.
	That's an awful, awful, awful thing to say.
	That's what I'm saying.
	I also have nephews and nieces who are heroin addicts.
	Somebody came to them and showed them that heroin was a good thing to do.
	So, I mean, people could come and destroy your life.
	And that's the thing that I was concerned about with these people because I knew probably people came into their life and turned them into heroin addict and turned them into atheists.
	You know what I mean?
	And they just went along with it.
	But are you trying to tell me here that I know a lot of good people who do not have a particular faith, but they live by a code of morality and they don't go to church, but they just treat people decently.
	Are you saying that if you veer from what you would see as the true path, then you're going to go to hell.
	You're going to come to a very, as we say in the UK, sticky end?
	I hope not.
	I really do.
	But the other time that I could tell you that I actually encountered something like a demon was there's this blood disease that runs in the family.
	My dad got it in his 60s and died.
	My brother got it in his 40s and had a terrible heart attack.
	He went to the hospital.
	He died on a hospital bed.
	And I didn't know this until I went to visit him that night.
	So he told me when I came to him, he said, Johnny, you know, I died.
	You know, I know I heard you that you died in a thing.
	He said, when I died, I left my body, he said.
	And I was in that hospital room.
	I guess that's fifth dimension hospital room.
	When you leave your body, you're in another dimension.
	He said, I watched the nurses and the doctors frantically trying to get me back to life with the defibrillator and alarms are going off.
	He said, but in the dark side of this room, demons came for me, he said.
	And they were grabbing me and taking me into this dark side of the room.
	And then they finally got him back to life and he got back into his body.
	And he said, Johnny, why did demons come for me?
	And I was like, Paul, I don't have an answer for that.
	I really don't know.
	How did he know they were demons?
	Oh, he said they were demons for sure.
	I don't know exactly how he knew it, but they would look like demons and they were pulling them into the dark side of the room where he didn't want to go.
	So that's what he said anyway.
	And I believed him because he was my brother.
	He would never lie to me about that.
	But there are this force that people are going to have to contend with.
	And I actually, firsthand, when we finally get to talk about it, I'm going to explain to you exactly, in full detail, exactly what I saw and what I understand now about that fifth dimension, that next life.
	And I want people to know that.
	So maybe they'll, whatever they're doing here, maybe turn a little bit more towards God, you know, instead of just going along in life.
	Like I see these people, like I say, like a boat, like a ship without a rudder, you know, they're just going along with the tide and with the winds and anywhere that takes you that's fun and pleasurable.
	Maybe we should rethink it again.
	So when we talk about this thing, I'm hoping that this will change some people's minds.
	Are you trying to convert people?
	Oh, no.
	I'm trying to tell them this story.
	Did you know I had to ask that question, right?
	We can change, like my brother's now a completely changed man.
	He's a religious man again.
	He's believing in God.
	I mean, I asked him before, you know, I said, well, I don't know why demons came to you, Paul, but I mean, I know you left God about 20 years ago because he stopped practicing our religion.
	He didn't marry the woman he lived with.
	He had kids with the woman.
	I asked him, did your kids ever, did you ever give them a religion?
	Anyone of your kids could even recite one prayer?
	And he was like, no, I don't think so.
	So I was like, well, I don't know if that was it, but I mean, you know, maybe you should think about that, you know, get back to, get grounded again a little bit.
	Well, look, I have to say that, you know, I am not a particularly religious person.
	I am not an irreligious person.
	I certainly don't disparage people in their faith.
	You know, they must believe whatever they want to believe.
	I try and lead a decent life.
	But I don't think I could ever see myself going to church every five minutes.
	Does that mean I'm a lesser person?
	No.
	I only go once a week.
	I don't go every five minutes.
	I mean, look, I come from Liverpool, and my family is Divided between one side, there's the Protestant side, the other side, there's the Catholic side.
	So I've seen it from both sides, and I feel equally welcome.
	If I go to Liverpool, I visit the Catholic Cathedral, and I might go to the other cathedral as well.
	And I feel equally welcome in both of those.
	You know, and I feel that they're sort of part of my life, but I wouldn't call myself a church-going religious person.
	They're just kind of there in my background.
	And that goes for, you know, many hundreds of thousands of us, or probably more here in the UK, I would say.
	Yeah, I'm sure, I'm sure.
	But that's good, though.
	But I mean, I think this story is going to be actually very interesting for you and many other people, all your audience, I believe.
	I mean, a lot of times my atheists and nephews tell me like, well, we're trying to be good people and we're trying to do right-by people and we're trying to be nice.
	And then I would tell them, well, who do you think wrote those rules into your heart?
	You think nobody wrote those.
	How did those rules get there?
	You know, that's what I'm trying to explain.
	There's really a higher power that's done this.
	You didn't think this is.
	A lot of people believe there's a higher power, whether that power is the Buddha, whether it's Jesus, whether it is another figure from another religion, whether it's an extraterrestrial, you're going to get, if you go out into Main Street, a whole spread of opinions about that.
	You know that.
	Yeah, of course I know that.
	And I don't try to interfere with your opinions at all.
	I can just tell my story.
	That's the best I could do.
	Okay, well, I think we want to hear your story.
	And before we get into it, we must get into it because, you know, I think people will find it fascinating.
	You are very keen to stress, number one, you, and I often ask people, try very delicately to ask people, are you sure that there's not a mental issue here?
	You know, we've got to rule that out.
	So you're up front with it.
	You say, you know, I'm not, I don't have a mental issue.
	You say that you're sure that you haven't been hallucinating.
	You're not a user of, you know, booze or drugs or anything that would prompt you to have those experiences.
	You know, you get that right out there, right at the beginning.
	Absolutely.
	And also, well, as we talk about it, my wife and my son also, we all had the same.
	Well, I'll explain that to you as soon as we get into it.
	Okay, well, I think we've got to stop teasing people now.
	Otherwise, I'm going to be in all kinds of trouble.
	Let's tell the story.
	The story is essentially that you came face to face, as far as I understand it, with what we might call the devil.
	Yeah.
	Well, now, Howard, the first thing I want to tell you is I've never invited this creature here.
	Like, I never had a seance.
	I never had Ouija border or those terror cards.
	And I don't suggest anybody do that because I believe that you might allow this creature to harm you.
	If you open the door for him, you might allow it to come into your house and do harm to you.
	But I was fortunate, I wasn't harmed by this thing.
	But I want to start from where it actually began.
	Now, I live in New Jersey.
	I live on an acre of property.
	I have a big house.
	It's built on a hill.
	It has like 130-foot driveway, and the garages are underneath the house.
	So when you pull into the driveway, you make a left, and you go into the garages there.
	And then there's a door in the back there that we can come into the garage, too, if you don't want to open up the garage doors.
	And then between the garage and the basement, there's a big iron door.
	And in the basement, I had three boys living in this house, and as they grew up, they wanted a little more space instead of being in their room.
	So I had the basement finished, and I had it cut in half, and I made an apartment down there.
	So the first boy, he lived there.
	He went to college, he moved out.
	The second boy lived there.
	He went to college.
	The third boy, he lives there.
	He went to college, he moved out.
	But then he wanted to come back to start his own business.
	I said, come back, because we got this big house, and my wife has that empty nest syndrome, you know.
	So I was happy to have Johnny back here.
	So Johnny was living down there.
	But he worked during the day.
	So every day, Howard, I would do my meditation.
	Upstairs, there's steps that go up to the kitchen, and alongside the kitchen is a living room.
	I have a sectional couch there like most people do, and I have a glass top table right next to me with a lamp on it.
	So I sit there most of the time in the afternoon.
	I pray in the morning, in the afternoon, in the evening now.
	And I was doing my meditation there.
	And how that metal door downstairs.
	You could almost hear it when somebody comes in.
	Just this day, I was by myself.
	I hear that door slam so hard.
	I knew my wife didn't do it because she couldn't even slam that door that hard.
	And I was thinking, why would my son come in like that unless he had a car accident or his girlfriend broke up with him?
	So I'm thinking, I go into the office here.
	I have a security system in here.
	So I looked through the cameras and I look on all sides of my house and nobody was on the property.
	And I look in the garage area.
	Nobody opened the garage doors.
	Nobody opened the back garage door to come in.
	So I knew nobody came in.
	So I went up to the top of the steps and the lights were out down there, which they normally are.
	When my son comes home, when my wife comes home, I usually turn the lights on down there and come up the steps.
	But they were out.
	So I turned them on.
	Howard, I go downstairs.
	I look everywhere in the basement.
	I look everywhere in my son's apartment, in his closet, under his bed, in the furnace room.
	I felt this menacing, sinister, like ominous.
	The only way to describe it is like an evil feeling for some reason.
	And it was very off-putting.
	So I'm thinking, I don't know.
	I don't know what.
	I'm just a guy.
	I don't know what's going on.
	I did feel this evil presence.
	I come upstairs and I sit down.
	I know nobody came in the house because I looked through the cameras and I looked through everything down there.
	So then I hear the steps from the basement to the kitchen.
	I hear something crushing those steps very hard and very slow.
	And I'm thinking, now what could this be?
	I know there was nobody downstairs.
	So I run, I get up, I run through the kitchen, I look down the steps, there's nobody there, put the lights on again, nobody's there.
	So I felt like how something weird got into this house.
	But I didn't want to say anything to anybody.
	I didn't want to tell my wife to frighten her or anything like that.
	So when my wife comes home, first thing she says to me is, there's something weird about this house.
	She says, I feel something like evil force is in this house.
	Does anything happen today?
	And I said, no, because I didn't want to frighten her with what I thought I heard, you know.
	So we're sitting there.
	But Howard, I didn't realize it at the time.
	This creature was using his methodology on me.
	It has a methodology.
	And I was naive about this to begin with because I never had an account like this before.
	And it was using a method on me.
	He was trying to tell me it's in this house, it's possessing this house, and it's here.
	That was – so I wasn't sure.
	I'm sorry to interrupt because it's such a gripping story, but why did this happen all of a sudden then?
	You Lived there for a while.
	So, why was this?
	And you said you hadn't used a Ouija board, you hadn't messed with things.
	If people believe in those things, sometimes they say that they can open the door to all kinds of stuff, and that's why I don't do Ouija boards because I'm a bit superstitious about that kind of stuff.
	So, you weren't doing anything like that, but suddenly you say this thing found you.
	Yeah.
	But I'm going to explain to you what I learned from it.
	But I want to let you know that it uses methodology on me.
	And then my wife is home now.
	And she said that, and I tried to forget about what she said and go on with life.
	And we're sitting on the couch herself.
	And then she hears, and I hear at the same time.
	So like, what I'm trying to say, if two people can't have the same hallucination at the same time, no matter if we're doing, if we have an allergic reaction to a drug, or if we did a drug, or we had some kind of disease, I give you a hallucination.
	And you could ask any psychiatrist in the world.
	No, two people, and now it's going to be three, because Johnny's going to start hearing the same things, will have the same hallucination at exactly the same time.
	So she hears, I hear, and we hear it walking up the steps again, very slowly and very hard.
	And she goes, is Johnny home this early?
	She says to me, and I'm like, I don't know, Lillian.
	She goes, she yells, Johnny, is that you?
	And she gets up off the couch.
	She goes through the living room into the kitchen.
	And she looks down the steps and she puts the lights on.
	She comes back down.
	She goes, you heard somebody walking up the steps, right?
	And I go, yes, I did.
	Well, nobody's here.
	She goes, what is that?
	She said, is this evil feeling I'm having?
	What's going on here?
	But I don't want to say anything to her.
	I don't want to scare my wife to death.
	But I'm going to say, yeah, I think there's a demon in the house.
	I'm going to go out and play golf now.
	Okay, I'll see you later.
	Okay, well, I mean, you sound like ordinary people trying to deal with something extraordinary, but we know that you are both quite religious in the way that you live.
	You know, were discussions of good and evil and the devil and Satan and those sorts of things, were they commonplace in your house or were they things you used to talk about or not?
	We didn't talk that much about demons.
	I mean, the only real demons that I ever really encountered was my brother and we talked about that for a little while, but then we just kind of like forgot about it.
	And were you a fan of horror movies?
	Yeah, not in a way.
	Not really.
	I'm actually more like Star Wars and Star Trek and Duncan.
	Okay, you know where I'm going with that.
	Yeah.
	See, you're exactly on the same page.
	So it's nothing to do with anything you may have seen in a movie.
	And I'm guessing, you know, things like your boiler, as we call it here, your furnace, you know, that wasn't putting out carbon monoxide or anything like that.
	Oh, no.
	Do you see going to check all the bases here?
	Sorry, listen, I'm going to shut up and let you tell the story.
	So then this is going on.
	Now, Howard, okay, so then I could hear it walking down the hallway to the bedrooms, and I could hear it slamming the doors in the bedroom.
	Both me and my wife here at the same time.
	She's like asking me what this is.
	And I'm trying to just calm it down and say, it's not really, I don't think it's anything.
	Don't worry about it.
	But then what happened is, you know, when you go into your bedroom and you sleep at night and you think you're safe, it's dark and we're sleeping.
	And what woke me up was the first time was this very heavy breathing, like almost like a water buffalo breathing right over me.
	It woke me up.
	It woke my wife up.
	And she said, this is ridiculous.
	You know, you're going to have to do something about this.
	And I was like, well, I don't know what you're talking about that much.
	And I'm not sure what this is.
	But I kind of had an idea, how it, but I wasn't positive.
	I'm just a guy.
	I don't know.
	So anyway, we have a beach house down Long Beach Island.
	So this was last summer.
	So we would go down there on the weekend and my family would meet me down there and we'd hang out and have a good time for the weekend.
	And my son would come down with his girlfriend once and a half.
	But this one weekend he stays home.
	He calls down to the beach house to my wife and says, are you guys down at the beach house?
	And we're like, yeah, both of you, yeah, we're both down here.
	Well, something's in this house, he says.
	He says to her, she goes, what do you mean?
	She goes, well, I hear something really heavy walking around upstairs when I'm downstairs in my apartment.
	When I go upstairs to investigate, I don't see anything, but now I hear it downstairs.
	He said, I can hear it slamming doors down there.
	I could hear it slamming my closet.
	He has a glass closet door down there.
	Back and forth.
	I could hear that slamming back and forth.
	But I didn't, all this was happening.
	This was this thing's methodology.
	He was now telling Johnny, it's in this house and it's possessing this house in its way, in its methodology, in a way it knows how to behave.
	So I didn't know this at the time.
	So then my wife says to me, when we get home, we're going to have to talk.
	So we go back home.
	She says, you're going to have to go to the church and get an exorcism or something like that for this house.
	And I was like, Lily, we know these people so long, I don't know what to say.
	I mean, we know these priests so long as a normal family.
	Now we're going to go over there and we're going to, I'm going to tell them I think my house is possessed.
	You know, that's not right.
	I can't do that.
	I mean, all the people that we know, every spring we have like a garden party here and the priests come over and the person is come over and we have a nice time.
	We have meetings here sometimes.
	It's like we know these people.
	Now I'm going to tell them, they're going to think I'm a crazy person, so I couldn't do that.
	Well, I guess it's nothing they wouldn't have heard before, though.
	Maybe, but I didn't want to be known as the, you know, like a rumor is going to start that guy's possessed or something, or the house is possessed or something.
	So I didn't want to do it.
	I said, let me just, let's just wait and see.
	Maybe this thing will all go away.
	And she was like, I'm not going to wait and see.
	I might have to live at the beach house, she told me.
	And I was like, well, if you have to, you have to.
	So then, Howard, this has gone on for about three weeks or so.
	So Howard, I still do my meditation on the couch and in the living room.
	So this one afternoon, Howard, I'm doing it.
	I'm doing my prayers.
	I'm a Catholic, so I pray on a rosary.
	So I have a glass table right next to me.
	So I finish my prayers.
	I put my rosaries down on the glass table, and I'm sitting there.
	And suddenly, on my right, between my glass table and the wall unit, there's about eight foot of space there.
	And the air starts to ripple, like ripple in that area.
	And I think it's my eyes.
	I was having a problem with my eyes.
	So I start blinking my eyes to try to clear them up.
	And what wasn't my eyes?
	And like a whole wall of rippling air starts to turn into a raging blue fire.
	And I said blue, and it's not red.
	When I say this is the antithesis of any kind of an abarition I've ever heard about, I mean, in any other book or movie, the fires in hell are like red, and the devil is red, and she's running around with a pitchfork or something like that.
	This had nothing to do with that.
	It was just a giant, I'm going to explain this more as we talk about a giant blue wall of raging fire.
	But the fire, I can't hear it.
	I could see it.
	It doesn't have like a smoke coming off it, like it's burning anything.
	And so I start to sit on the edge of my chair, and I'm looking at it, and it's not really like registering.
	I kind of knew this is probably it.
	Well, whatever this thing was in the house is probably going to do something now.
	So I start sitting on the edge of my seat, but then Howard.
	You didn't think of heading for the door.
	Say that again?
	You didn't think of heading for the front door.
	Oh, no, that's what I'm saying, though.
	This is the antithesis of any kind of an aboriginal, because any aborition, anything you see on TV, there's wind and there's lightning and there's chairs flying around and there's animal noises.
	This was completely different.
	I start seeing very slowly what I thought was coral, coral pieces of coral coming through this blue flame very slowly.
	Now, Howard, I don't know if you've ever gone to like a board meeting and all the subordinates go in and they're nervously fixing their tire and they're fixing their skirt and they're fixing their notes.
	But when the CEO walks in, he owns a room.
	I've seen it so many times.
	Yeah.
	He comes in when he feels like it.
	He owns the room.
	He takes a superior seat.
	He starts when he wants to.
	That's how this thing came in because it didn't want to scare me out of this house like you see on TV with all these crazy things happening.
	Like I said, this was its methodology.
	It knew what it was doing.
	This was an intelligent, organized creature.
	So I see, but it was a creature, though.
	So I see long, like a foot and a half, two feet of what I thought was coral.
	It looked like coral.
	But then I see the head of this creature come through very, very slowly, like I said before.
	And all these things were like horns coming out of the...
	That will help you a lot.
	Because I'm an artist.
	I burnt this image into my head while it was here.
	So I'm seeing that.
	It comes all the way up to its neck.
	But I see that it really didn't.
	It looked like it couldn't pass through that blue flame.
	So that was a little reassuring to me.
	And like I said, it just took its time and it came in very slowly.
	And it looked me.
	So I got up off my seat and I stood about maybe three feet in front of the blue wall of fire in front of him.
	And he just stood there looking at me with black eyes.
	And it didn't say anything yet.
	And I knew this was it, and then it wasn't sure what was going to happen.
	It didn't, for me, it didn't look like it could pass through that blue wall of flames.
	Because those, like, we have, you know, when I was thinking about these flames, you know, we have fire in our fourth dimension here.
	And it says it keeps us warm.
	We could cook with it.
	You could forge steel together.
	It's like a miracle in itself, you know?
	This was a miracle, too.
	This was a miracle.
	And it sounds to me like it's a metaphor for your faith that somewhere in your belief system, the flames are your faith protecting you from something bad, trying to get you.
	Yeah, maybe that was it.
	But this was, I now understood it as God's burning, heating, dedestation for sin.
	This was the chastisement that this creature was in.
	And the creature, he owned it.
	Like, how it, if I was in prison and you went to visit me in prison and they had me there for life and I didn't do the crime and you were there or anybody who came there would say, look, I didn't do this.
	I'm innocent.
	Get me out of here.
	But this creature owned it.
	For him to be in this blue wall of flames, it was just to him, if you could understand that.
	He looked like he owned that punishment.
	That whatever happened between this creature and God back before time began.
	Because we read the Bible and you think there's stories, you know, because I'm a little skeptical too.
	Like when you heard about, you know, God created these angels, a third of them, I mean, some of these great angels, I guess, who are demons now, convinced a third of the angels to follow them out.
	They just didn't want to stay in heaven anymore.
	They wanted to break out on their own or something like that.
	But they convinced a third of them to follow them out of there.
	And now they're in their own empire here.
	This place that they're in, this chastisement, they seem to be okay with it.
	But why would this be coming to you?
	Well, I'm going to tell you that right now.
	So I'm looking at it, and it's looking at, it's just staring.
	It had black guys.
	It didn't have like pupils.
	It didn't have any whites of its eyes.
	It's just this pure black.
	If you went to the website, john-egan e-ag-an.com, you could be seeing that now as we're talking to it because that's exactly what I saw.
	Because I'm an artist, I could paint a drawer exactly what I see.
	So it looks at me, and I'm just standing there, and it says to me, no more.
	Just like no more.
	But when its mouth moved, it confronted me, 100% confrontational, like men talk to each other.
	Kind of talk on an angle.
	We don't talk like straight, face-to-face.
	But this thing was like confrontational, like right straight in my face.
	And when it said, when I heard no more, because when you're that close and you're seeing somebody, something talk to you, the mouth usually kind of goes along with the words.
	But I guess whatever language this thing spoke, it was able to translate that for me to understand it in English.
	I mean, this thing was so powerful.
	It can create a fifth dimension.
	I mean, we don't have that technology today.
	There's no way we could possibly ever do this, what this creature was able to do.
	It could be here and being invisible.
	It created this fifth dimension where it could come through to bring its message to me.
	We don't have anything like that.
	And this dimension it was in it was in its chastisement.
	That blue wall of flame, when I was looking at that, because it was so big and so frightening, it said to me, only your spirit will feel the effects of this type of fire.
	So then I understood that because I wasn't feeling any heat off it.
	I didn't hear it.
	But there's so many unfathomable things about this.
	I mean, it had a head.
	The top of his head looked like a shell, like a horseshoe crab.
	And that's where all those horns were growing out of.
	It was a creature.
	It might have been something beautiful at one time when God created It.
	But right now, it's a creature.
	I don't know if it's morphing into anything more than that, but I mean, it had many horns coming out of the front of its head and the back of his head, and it was like a shell.
	But his face, it is like if you see in that picture that's the cover of the book, it was like, like, this is unfathomable, too.
	It had like flesh, but how could something with flesh be in the middle of this fire, but not be burnt?
	So there was nothing like burnt on him.
	So that's another thing that I couldn't understand at all.
	I mean, yes, definitely a chilling creature.
	Almost you could describe it like an evil version of Wolfman Jack, you know, from your, from your, from, from what you've painted, yeah.
	It looked like what you might imagine was a hierarchy demon in whatever chain of command that exists in hell, you know.
	I mean, it looked like because it had all these, all these horns on its head and coming out of the front of its head, it looked like it was as powerful as a lion.
	It was 100% hatred.
	But assuming this thing happened, then surely your first thought, my first thought would have been, this thing has come for me.
	Yeah, I knew it was here for me.
	I knew it was trying to deliver a message to me, but I also saw how that it couldn't pass.
	It could only pass up to its neck.
	It couldn't pass, its whole body couldn't come through, which I felt was a gift.
	Like I felt this whole apparition I had was actually a gift that I could tell people about, that I could warn people about, that what's there in that next life is something creatures like this, that they have their empire there.
	I mean, he told me that he said, I am many.
	I thought this was like some kind of a threat or something.
	He said, I am many and many more wicked than I. I thought maybe this is, he's trying to tell me that, you know, this is going to be an okay thing, but it could get worse if I don't stop praying or something.
	But I said, no more.
	I didn't, no more praying for souls and no more praying.
	I didn't ask it one question.
	I was almost like, you know, it was kind of like in shock, I guess, looking at this thing.
	So I didn't say anything to it.
	I just listened to what it was said.
	And I was trying to burn that image into my head because I thought, if I'm going to survive this thing, I'm going to draw this thing.
	And I'm going to remember exactly what it said to me.
	So as I said, it was not 99.9% hatred.
	It was 100% hatred.
	That's where it exists now.
	When I tell people, don't leave this earth with any hatred in your heart.
	If you have hatred for your brothers or sisters or your neighbor or any race, religion, or nationality, get that out of your heart because these creatures are going to show you how to use that hatred to alleviate all your pain.
	You know, they're going to bewitch your spirit when you're there because you're going to be just like I was, but I wasn't in my spiritual form.
	I was a human being.
	But when you pass into this fifth dimension, you're going to be alone with this creature.
	And it's going to try to has many wiles and deceptions.
	I can see that.
	It's going to seduce and entice and beguile your soul.
	You seem to deduce an awful lot in a very short space of time.
	Where was everybody else while this was happening?
	My wife was out, and my son is working, so it's just me right there.
	And I think that when I said that this is this methodology, it knew exactly the right time to show up, to tell me what it wanted to tell me, and get its message across.
	Don't let me forget to tell you what it did before it leaves, because I don't know how much time we have left, but I do want to tell you.
	Okay, so now I know that.
	I mean, it chose this word with fastidious care.
	Every word it said, it took its time to say it.
	I got its message.
	I told you that he owned what he lived in, whatever this chastisement, he's going to be there forever.
	That's the scary thing about this.
	I mean, we have to love God, but we've got to fear his power.
	I mean, God has the power to put us into that chastisement for all of eternity.
	Never think twice about us because this creature, he's never going to think twice about this creature.
	It's going to be there forever.
	And for some reason, it wants our souls because it doesn't want anybody blocking these souls coming down in his direction.
	He doesn't want anybody like me blocking that or trying to hold it back and doing whatever I can to stop those souls from there.
	I hear what you're saying.
	What you're saying sounds an awful lot like what some of those televangelists say.
	You know, that there is fire and brimstone just around the corner if you don't repent.
	I know, but I would, I mean, you know, when I always thought of hell, I never thought of it like that.
	I mean, I didn't know where it was or on the other side of the universe, under the universe.
	I mean, it could be right there.
	It could be right.
	One step, you could be in there with this creature.
	I mean, it's so right there.
	It's so real.
	And it's so right there.
	That's the scary part about this.
	And the fact that this fifth dimension, like I said, we don't have the technology for this, that this creature could actually create a fifth dimension.
	I guess whenever your soul passes, I mean, if you have hatred in your heart, you're not going to go where people can't forgive their brothers and sisters, I tell people.
	You're not going to go where people can forgive their neighbor or any other race, religion, and nationality.
	You're not going to go that way.
	You're going to go this way, where this creature is going to teach you how to use that hatred to alleviate all your pain.
	So that's the thing about this apparition I had.
	And I say it's the antithesis of any kind of an apparition because it's nothing like I've ever saw on TV.
	It was blue.
	He was blue, like blue.
	I don't understand.
	That's like unfathomable, some of these things that happen.
	I put every detail in the book that I possibly can so you could get a bigger image of it.
	I know we only have an hour to talk about.
	So this was something that came to you that was barred from getting to you.
	So you knew that to some extent you were safe.
	But it definitely had a message for you.
	Oh, it definitely had a message for me.
	And don't let me forget to tell you what it is.
	I'm very keen to hear you.
	Because I don't want to mess that up.
	But yeah, so this is what, yeah, so this happens.
	I'm standing there.
	I realize I'm confronted with something that's 100% hate that.
	It'll never turn.
	And whatever it was at one time, it is now 100% hatred.
	It's going to stay that way for all of eternity.
	And for whatever reason, I don't know why or what happened between this creature and God back before time began.
	It's now seems to be fine with where it is.
	That's the weird part about this.
	You know what I mean?
	It seems to be fine in its chastisement.
	Like, it wasn't burning him.
	I don't know how.
	This flame, there was no smoke coming off it.
	Like, normally when you see fire, there's smoke coming.
	That's the stuff that whatever the fuel is burning off.
	There was no, I guess because this is God's, like I said, his burning detestation for sin.
	That's the fuel for it.
	And there's nobody he's going to be able to add to it or take away from it.
	And it's going to burn for all of eternity.
	That's the scary, really, really scary part I want to hear to people.
	I spoke with a neuroscientist, one of this country's top neuroscientists, very recently.
	And one of the things that stuck with me from what he said was that our beliefs condition our experiences.
	So in other words, what you believe is what you get.
	So if you were believing in fire and brimstone, you got a manifestation of it.
	It was presented to you.
	Yes, that's true.
	But I never really, I was a bigger skeptical than most other people before this happened to me.
	You know what I'm saying?
	I wasn't sure.
	I read the Bible and I read the stories about the Bible and I read about hell and I read about heaven and I read about the universe.
	But I never would have really, now I'm 100% positive.
	But I was skeptical up to that point of exactly what was going on there.
	So anyway, real fast, I know we don't have that much time, I think.
	So it gave me what it wanted to tell me.
	It wanted me to stop.
	It told me that these fires would only affect my spirit, which really seemed logical.
	I mean, it said, I am many and many more wicked than I. And I mean, as I said, it shows its words with fastidious care.
	They're prepared to offer you interesting options once you become through this fifth dimension, and you're going to be just with no support alone in front of these kind of creatures, I guess, convincing you.
	And especially if you're full of hatred, that's embedded into your soul.
	It's kind of bearable to snare you.
	You know what I mean?
	So you have to kind of not do that while you're here.
	Get rid of all that hatred.
	So it's still in the confrontational.
	It's looking straight at me with those black eyes.
	It had no pupils.
	It had no whites of its eyes, anything like that.
	My rosaries were right next to it.
	So it looked at my rosary, looked at me, and its mouth started to blow up.
	And Howard, it spit a big thing of saliva right onto my rosary beads on my glass top table and looked back at me.
	Like, I guess that was his way of telling me that any kind of prayers, he hates anything that you do with God, I imagine.
	And he looked back at me, and as he came in slowly, he just backed out as slowly as he came in, and his horns went through that blue raging fire.
	The fire started to dissipate.
	The rippling now was there.
	That started to dissipate.
	And I stood there, and I was telling myself, do you remember every single second of this?
	I was trying to burn this image into my head because I'm an artist, I was able to paint it and draw it, and I put it on the book at john-eganea.com.
	You could see it there.
	You could buy the book there.
	So I'm standing there, and I'm looking at my rosary beads because I know this wasn't even transparent.
	This was full-on creature, just like if I was standing in front of you.
	It wasn't like it was transparent like some people see images that are transparent.
	This wasn't transparent.
	It was totally opaque.
	And so I'm looking, and I spit on my rosary.
	I'm thinking to myself.
	And I'm starting to poke my rosaries, and I thought there'd be big saliva on it because I saw it spit on them, and the saliva came out of its mouth.
	That's another unfathomable thing, that you could be in a wall of raging fire and yet have saliva in your mouth.
	That's another thing I couldn't understand either.
	I mean, I suppose if you were of a scientific sort of bent, you could have had that analyzed, couldn't you?
	Yeah, but when I poked out my rosary beads and I started picking them up, but there was no saliva on.
	Like I thought there would be like a big wet spot there, but it wasn't.
	It all happened like in an, like I say, unfathomable.
	So it was putting on a show for you.
	It was telling me how it hated prayer to begin with and how it hated God by doing that.
	I realized that when it backed away.
	So how it, what I did was, because I'm thinking like, okay, I hope this thing is not still in this house now.
	I mean, it did what it did.
	It didn't harm me.
	So I'm thinking, you know what?
	In the Bible, I know Jesus tells me you could raise the dead, heal the sick, expel demons in my name.
	So I go to church the next morning, receive communion because I'm a Catholic.
	I come home.
	My wife keeps a thing of holy water in the kitchen.
	I take the holy water and I go into every single room and I say, in the name of Jesus Christ, I command you to leave this premises immediately.
	And I go to every single room doing that.
	So you were doing DIY exorcism.
	Yeah, as far as I, that's what, I mean, I take Jesus' word for it.
	So I went through every room, every closet, down in the basement, into the furnace room, into the attic.
	And then when I get to the last bedroom, and I'm saying that in the bedroom, I feel a swoosh of the curtains and the blinds, swoosh.
	And I felt like it left.
	So I haven't even heard it bumping at night since this thing happened about a year ago when it left.
	And then when my wife came home, she was like, you know, this house feels better now.
	Is everything okay?
	Is everything good?
	But I wanted to tell it a story like I'm telling you, but I couldn't.
	When it first happened, the words just got stuck in my throat.
	I couldn't say the story.
	So I said to her, look, I'm going to draw this creature and I'm going to type this out.
	And that's the way you're going to learn it because I can't tell you those words right now.
	So I did was drawing.
	She says, is that what it looked like?
	And I finished drawing that thing and I typed it and typed and typed.
	And then that was the way she learned what actually really happened there because I don't know why, Howard, the words wouldn't come out of my throat for the longest time.
	But you said it had a message for you just before you were able to purge your home of it.
	Well, that was the last thing it did, a spit on my rosaries, which was a message in itself.
	I mean, you couldn't possibly explain.
	It's so telling what that was when it did that, you know.
	Okay.
	So you're telling your wife about the, well, you eventually get around to being able to tell the story to your wife.
	I was trying to tell, you know, just don't worry, it's gone.
	And she says, well, how do you know that?
	And when I tried to explain what happened, I couldn't say the words.
	I was saying, look, it's just gone.
	Even now, to this day, it's hard for me to actually tell the story, but I do.
	And I just said, it's gone.
	Just take my word for it.
	It's gone.
	I know it's gone.
	And I'm going to type it out, every single detail of what happened, and I'm going to draw it.
	And then you're going to have to read it.
	And then we'll probably maybe be able to discuss it at that point.
	So that's what we're doing.
	I'm sure that your religious involvement is not so strong.
	I mean, you have holy water in the house, and you are clearly a religious family.
	There's nothing wrong with that, but you are.
	You're sure that that degree of religious fervor that you have didn't produce some kind of artifact for you?
	Oh, you think that might have done it just in itself?
	Just by itself?
	Well, we are kind of.
	I mean, my wife is in charge of the Adoration Chapel and she's involved with the church.
	And I go to church with her once a week, sometimes more than once a week.
	But I mean, and I do have my hour and a half of meditation.
	Only because I think because that book I wrote enabled me to retire young.
	I mean, I do miss those kids that I taught, and I do miss the night people.
	That was a lot of fun and excitement.
	But I mean, I went back to my artwork.
	We talked about that before.
	But yeah, that is the thing that I'm praying for these souls.
	I think that when it said no more, I think it had to either mean no more praying, but I think it means no more.
	I thought it means no more praying for these souls that are going in his direction.
	He doesn't want anything stopping that.
	He was trying to tell you, you know, stop providing me with my clients.
	Yeah, exactly.
	Yeah, it doesn't want any.
	Wow.
	I know.
	Yeah.
	And I mean, that is so real, how, and it's so scary to see that.
	And it's almost, you know, like I say, unfathomable.
	I get it now.
	It was almost a warning to you that you've been trying to save the people who are keeping my business going.
	Yeah, exactly.
	Because in my religion, we believe, we were told that souls fall into hell like snowflakes from the sky, especially if there's no one to pray for them.
	And that's what really prompted me to start praying for these people that I knew.
	Did you go to your church and tell your priest about this?
	No, absolutely not.
	No.
	No.
	I mean, we're such a good standing with the people.
	And I told you we have a garden.
	But you've written a book about it.
	I know.
	People start.
	I know.
	It's getting out there.
	Well, if it happens on its own, I'll let it take its life on its own.
	You know what I mean?
	If it takes a life of its own, that'll have that.
	I mean, the first book I wrote, it took on a life of its own.
	So it just went.
	So, you know, it's almost like you don't even have to tell everybody about it.
	It just does it itself.
	Well, listen, you know, our hour is almost done, but it is an extraordinary story.
	And you tell me that you sound like a balanced individual.
	You tell me that you're not trying to convert people.
	So it sounds to me as if the message that you have is that if you've known about good and evil, if you've been told about it, it exists.
	And there's bad stuff out there for you unless one way or another you change your ways.
	Yeah, I try to get people that whatever religion they are, just go back to your religion.
	And whatever way it tells you to get closest to God, do that.
	What happens if you don't have a...
	I know when I try and ask questions of a guest and try to be balanced about it, I get people saying, you ripped into that man because of his religion.
	You're very anti-religious, which I'm not.
	And I'll get the other side as well going after me.
	So in a way, doing what I do, you can't win.
	But, you know, there are people who are good people, as we said at the beginning, who are people who are not necessarily of faith.
	What is the message for them?
	Yeah, that's true.
	That's very true.
	They're not.
	But their message is, even if you're not a person of faith, to get that hatred, whatever hatred you have for your brothers or sisters or neighbors, yeah, get that out of your system before you leave this dimension, because that's where you're going to get snared in that fifth dimension out there.
	That's where these preachers are waiting for that.
	Well, listen, I've got to say that I try to get on with everybody that I come across, and I try and be as nice a guy as I can be.
	And I think a lot of people think that way, I think.
	There are some people who are never going to like me, and there are some people who unfortunately have done me down in my life and career who I have a hard time liking.
	But you're telling me that I need to purge myself of any feelings I might have towards them because I'm going to have a problem later on.
	Yeah, I mean, your spirit or anyone's spirit who has hatred embedded in their souls is not going to go where people have gotten that out of their soul.
	You know what I'm saying?
	You're not going to be allowed to go with those people, the people who are able to forgive their neighbor, forgive their family, forgive any race, religion, or nationality.
	Forgive people who hurt you.
	If you can do that, you're going to go with those people.
	You assure me that you weren't thinking this way before you had that experience.
	This is something, this was like a road to Damascus moment for you.
	Absolutely.
	It was, yeah, for sure how it is.
	Well, you know, John, I think it's, it's, I don't know what to say, really.
	It is a remarkable story.
	You know, I don't know what my listener will make of this.
	I'd be very keen to hear from my listener.
	I don't know whether you would be interested in hearing from my listeners if they want to contact you.
	Absolutely.
	Just go right there.
	You can contact me right through that website, john-egan.com.
	That's where you can get the book.
	That's where it's a 350-page book.
	You get the cover of the book.
	Howard, you were great.
	I mean, like, in my life, I've been interviewed by a lot of great interviews.
	You were great.
	You were very relaxed.
	You let the talent shine through.
	You know what I mean?
	You have that ability.
	It's a conversation, but I get people telling me I'm a rotten interviewer.
	I get people telling me all sorts of stuff.
	But if you put yourself as you will know, and once that book gets out there properly, people will take whatever view they will.
	I think it's an astonishing story.
	It is one that for me, I think, leaves me for once in my silly life speechless.
	I don't know what to say.
	But the only thing I can say is that you're great to have a conversation with.
	Thanks, and I'll come back anytime you want, how I believe.
	All right, John.
	Well, listener, you've publicized the website and stuff, and I wish you well.
	And maybe one of these days we're going to talk again.
	But in the meantime, please give my love to the city that you can probably see across the water from where you are, maybe if you go to somewhere high, to New York, where you're from, and also New Jersey that has a place in my heart, too.
	And if I come to London, can I stop and visit you?
	Of course you can.
	Thank you, John.
	Take care.
	Bye-bye.
	Bye-bye from now.
	Bye-bye.
	Well, the man you've been hearing is John Egan, and I think he mentioned his website, was it three or four times, so I almost don't have to do that, but I'll put a link to the website on my website, theunexplained.tv.
	More remarkable guests in the Pipeline here at The Unexplained.
	So until next we meet, my name is Howard Hughes.
	This has been The Unexplained, and please, whatever you do, please stay safe, please stay calm, and above all, please stay in touch.
	Thank you very much.
	Take care.

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