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June 7, 2018 - The Unexplained - Howard Hughes
56:55
Edition 349 - Dr Sam Osmanagich

This time - The Bosnian Pyramids...

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Across the UK, across continental North America, and around the world on the internet, by webcast and by podcast, my name is Howard Hughes, and this is the return of the unexplained.
Very many thanks for all of your communications.
I do see every email, and if it needs an urgent response, then it gets one directly from me.
But I see all the emails as they come in.
Thank you for the guest suggestions and also the nice things you say.
And if you have made a donation to the show by going to the website theunexplained.tv and making it from there, thank you very much indeed.
Your donations, vital to our operation.
Most people, I have to say, who listen to the show don't donate, but if you do, I'm very, very grateful.
If you compare us with some of the subscription shows, you know, they have a lot more money to allocate to improvements and doing more shows, because, of course, those subscription shows bring in for some who do them an awful lot of cash.
I've wanted to keep this show free for as long as I can, but that's the difference between some of the other shows out there, very good though they are, and this show.
You know, they are subscription.
They make money to allow them to continue and to allow them for it to be their primary job.
I have to do things in a different way because that was the choice that I made.
So, you know, I think, you know, I think we're getting somewhere.
I hope we are anyway.
And thank you very much for all of your support and the nice things that you say.
And thank you to Adam Cornwell at Creative Hotspot in Liverpool for his hard work on the website.
And yes, the new website is coming.
Adam is a busy guy, but he's going to make some time to be able to get it live at some point.
But Adam is currently traveling the world, more or less, doing his work.
So, you know, that's one of the reasons why things have been delayed a little bit.
And I've been involved in other things too, just simply to keep food on my table.
Now, the subject on this edition, somebody you've suggested, fascinating research that we should have done something about before and we haven't up to now.
Sam Osmanagic is a really interesting researcher, somebody whose work is a little controversial.
It's certainly against the mainstream.
He works in Bosnia and has unearthed pyramids there and evidence of remarkable technology and remarkable civilizations before the civilizations that we understood were here.
So we are beginning bit by bit, through various people working in different ways, coming to understand, aren't we, that our knowledge of who we are and who was here before us has been somewhat flawed.
And Sam Osmanegic is definitely part of all of that work in Bosnia.
Now, we're about to connect with him on a mobile digital connection because he's actually involved at this moment in excavations.
I've done a preliminary hookup by video with him.
Of course, these shows are radio style shows, so we only do sound.
But we did a video hookup and he is literally on site on location.
The mobile connection is good, but it does tend to drop out a little.
So by the time you hear this, any major glitches I will have removed.
But there may be some audio glitches, but by and large, it's 95% clear as a bell.
So I hope you're going to enjoy this.
It is something we haven't talked about.
The Bosnian pyramids on this edition of The Unexplained.
And let's cross now to Bosnia and to Sam Ozmanegic and say thank you very much for coming on this show, Sam.
Great.
Where are you speaking to me from, Sam?
I'm talking to you from Sarajevo, Bosnia.
And at this moment, are you in the middle of investigations, archaeological digs?
Well, it's been 13 years since I started the Bosnian pyramid excavation.
In the meantime, it has become the most active archaeological site in the world.
So yes, you can say I'm in the middle of it.
Okay.
Now, I don't know where to start with you.
Maybe if I can ask a little bit about your background.
I know that your background is an academic one.
And maybe you could just explain that first.
Yeah, gladly.
My PhD is about the Mayan pyramids.
I've been investigating the pyramids in the jungles of Guatemala, Honduras, El Salvador, Belize, Mexico, realizing that 95% of the Mayan pyramids have actually been covered by soil and the forests.
And in the meantime, I've expanded my search for pyramids to Peru, Bolivia, US, Canary Islands, Mauritius, Sudan, Egypt, Indonesia, China, Cambodia, all over the planet, concluding that what they teach us about the pyramids is mostly wrong.
They are not built only in Egypt and Mexico, but all around the planet.
Now, for a lot of people, Sam, sorry to interrupt, our descriptions, what is written about us on Wikipedia, is a matter of some concern and some disdain for some people.
The first line of your description on Wikipedia, if I'm quoting it right, is that what you're involved in is pseudo-archaeology.
I don't know whether you've seen that, but how do you react to that?
Well, I've seen that.
Since I have my PhD, I have my professorships, and I'm a member of two Academy of Sciences in Croatia and Russia.
Obviously, I've learned the scientific methodology.
Pseudo-archaeology, pseudoscience means that you don't know how to apply scientific methodology, so Wikipedia is wrong.
Considering the fact that I have written 16 books translated into 17 languages, mostly about the pyramids and ancient civilizations, you know, one could hardly call me pseudo-archaeologists.
I guess what this indicates, if nothing else, is that the field that you're involved in and the view that you take of it, because it is so different from what has been up to now the orthodox, it's controversial.
Some people won't agree.
It's not controversial to me because I'm looking for the scientific truth.
However, the people who've been investigating pyramids have exclusively been Egyptologists, archaeologists, geologists.
They do not have enough knowledge to figure out who, when, how, and why, especially why.
And in the last 13 years, our interdisciplinary scientific project in Bosnia have proven that you have to have experts in energy phenomena to understand the purpose of pyramids.
You have to have people with the scientific instruments, physicists, electrical engineers, sound engineers, telecommunication engineers, and then you can understand the purpose of pyramids.
And of course, when you come with the new big ideas, a lot of people want to keep the status quo.
But there are professorships, there are history books, they are all wrong.
The way they teach our people is wrong also.
They are telling us that human history is 6,000, 7,000 years old, but it's tens of thousands of years old.
They are telling us no pyramids in Europe, but the biggest and the oldest on the planet are in the heart of the Europe, in Bosnia.
And of course, since they control some of the mainstream media, yes, they take advantage of it and they not label me.
But we can say, Sam, that our view, our paradigm is shifting.
People are beginning to understand that what we've been told about ancient civilizations may not be all there is, that the ancient Egyptians may have been preceded by another society.
Their society may have spread further.
There may have been people who traveled and took their knowledge with them.
There was much more interplay and interchange between peoples than we understood even 20 years ago.
You are completely right.
However, archaeology is the most conservative science of all.
Today we know that based on Turing King List, that the first Egyptian rulers ruled Egypt 36,600 years ago.
They were so-called gods with a small genius who descended from sky to the earth.
They would rule Egypt in average 1,000 years each.
And even more exciting discovery is of the Sumerian king list, which is telling us that the first rulers there came 273,000 years ago.
And even mainstream archaeology is discovering places like Gobekli Tepe in eastern Turkey, 12,000 years old.
Yonaguni monument on the bottom of the Pacific floor, 12,000 plus years old.
And the new dating of Machu Picchu in eastern Peru, Teotihuacan pyramids in Mexico, and even Egyptian pyramids will show us that it is all built in the period from 12 to 55,000 years back.
So when we come to the world of the pyramids, what we know at this point, two oldest pyramids in the world, one is Gunung Padang, Western Java, Indonesia, 29,000 years old.
The other one, the Bosnian pyramid of the sun, according to the radiocarbon dating, 29,200 years, plus minus 400 years.
So you are right.
The scientific paradigm has to change.
Okay, I just need to explain one thing to my listener.
You're, I think, on a mobile connection, as we do this via digital connection.
It is breaking up very slightly, but you're still intelligible.
But there are periodic problems with this mobile connection.
Just so that my listener understands, we'll persist with this, because I think you're on location at the moment.
Yes, exactly.
I'm in Visoko in Bosnia.
Right.
Okay.
So the difference between what we thought we understood and what you're telling us we need to understand is pretty substantial, isn't it?
And I understand from reading about you, a lot of these conclusions came from your studies of South America.
Tell me about those.
South America, Central America, Asia.
My claim is that instead of our history being evolutionary in the last 7,000 years, that everything started from Sumer, Babylon, Akkada Seria, ancient Egypt, ancient India, it's actually cycle after cycle after cycle.
Namely, 12,000 years ago, the end of the last ice age, more than 99% of humans were wiped off from the face of the planet.
Huge catastrophes destroyed previous civilizations.
But then, 18,000 years ago, there was another global catastrophe, 30,000, 55,000, and 75,000 years back.
So we are actually talking about five different cycleses of humanity.
And do you believe that what you are seeing, and you're not the only one to say this, I mean, Graham Hancock is another who says that, you know, there have been predating civilizations that have faced great catastrophes, and that's why we don't know much about them, but we're learning.
You know, this is, it's fairly groundbreaking stuff, isn't it?
It's very much beyond what we've been told up to now.
Once you change the beginning, everything else that followed has to be changed.
That's why this discovery is so huge.
Imagine, we thought the pyramids Egypt built by pharaohs as tombs.
In reality, those pyramids at the Giza Plateau, which they're called Chaos, Kefer, and Mikarinos, they were built much before that.
And they were not built by thousands of slaves, but more advanced civilization.
Bosnian pyramids, what we have proven so far, they are the biggest on the planet.
The Bosnian Pyramid of the Sun, over 270 meters.
The Great Pyramid of Egypt, 147.
Three biggest pyramids in Bosnia, Sun, Moon, Dragon, when you connect their tops on topographic map, they form equilateral triangle with 2,180 meters between the tops.
The next thing, the Sun Pyramid in Bosnia is covered in concrete blocks, rectangular and square concrete blocks.
They are reaching 40 tons in mass.
When we analyze the hardness, it's much better quality than what we can make today.
Today, our concrete sign range from 10 to 60 megapascals.
Bosnian pyramid concrete from 73 to 134 megapascals.
the best quality concrete ever.
The next thing, we know that Sorry to break in again.
But when we talk about concrete, I assumed, because I am not an archaeologist, that concrete is really something that we only started using within modern times in our civilization.
Well, officially from the ancient Roman times, but we know that ancient Greek had it, that ancient Egyptians had it, we know that ancient Sumerian had it, but it's still only 5,000, 6,000 years old.
However, when we make concrete today, you use pebbles, sand, water, and cement as the binder.
What the Bosnian pyramid builders used, pebbles, sand, water, and melted clay as a binder.
So we know technology, how they made it, and we know that the hardness is better than what we can do today, that water absorption is less what we can do today.
In other words, that concrete is superior to what we can make today in 21st century.
And that's an amazing fact for itself.
The next one, also very important, the orientation of the sides of the pyramids.
We know that all the Egyptian pyramids, they were all oriented to the cosmic north.
For example, error of the Chaos Pyramid to the cosmic north is only zero degrees and two minutes.
The Bosnian State Institute for Geodesy measured orientation of the northern side of the Bosnian pyramid of the Sun.
The error is zero degrees, zero minutes and only 12 seconds, the most precise orientation ever.
The next element for Bosnian pyramids are the tunnels below the Bosnian valley of the pyramids.
Those prehistorical tunnels run for tens and tens of kilometers.
So far we have cleared and secured for the visitors 2,100 meters.
So this is sensational discovery.
And those tunnels, you enter those tunnels, you can breathe so well.
It's not like in Egyptian pyramids lack of oxygen.
In our case, deeper you go, you breathe better and better.
So how were they ventilating those tunnels, Sam?
I'll tell you, there is only one entrance.
But the way they made the airflow, they were making the ceilings of different heights.
When you have very low ceiling, for example, one meter, the pressure that wants to push the air is a little bit stronger.
Then you are coming to tunnels three, four meters, the pressure is weaker.
And now change from the weak to strong to weak to strong basically makes the air move.
It's a genius.
And by making the not one or two tunnels, but a labyrinth, a huge network of tunnels and chambers and intersections, it was like they were having hundreds of fans slowly moving the air in all directions.
We've been measuring oxygen, it's 20.4 everywhere, all day long.
The next thing, very high concentration of negative ions, which are very beneficial to human health.
Negative ions, they raise the level of oxygen in our body.
They kill viruses and bacterias.
More we have, better for us.
In our homes, mine and yours, 100 negative ions per cubic centimeters.
That is just coincidence, Sam, because I can remember in the 1980s, my sister bought me a present, a little ionizer to put in my bedroom, which cleaned up the air and I slept better.
But we understood that in the 1980s, but you're saying that they understood that way before that.
And not only that, because the concentrations in the tunnels are tens of thousands, 40,000, 50,000, even 100,000.
It is like Niagara Falls.
But what they did by making those tunnels below the Valley of Pyramids, they made the perfectly safe and secure place because there is no cosmic radiation inside the tunnels.
There are no natural radiativity.
There is no negative energy from the water flows.
You enter the tunnels.
Your body does not have enemies for the first time in your life.
And the body cells, they start doing their job.
What is their job?
To fix the problems in our body, to start the regeneration process, to start the self-healing process.
So somebody was building huge healing facility underground.
And it seems that one of the purposes of the pyramid energy was to protect what is the most precious for us, our health.
And this is the second one.
The first one, which I did not mention.
On the very top of the Bosnian Pyramid of the Sun, we've been measuring energy beam, which is electrical in nature, four and a half meter radius, 28 kilohertz frequency, focused, continuous, going up towards the sun.
Hold on, you're telling me that this structure is radiating a frequency by itself?
Well, ancients were very smart.
What they were doing, they knew that the shape of the pyramid is the most powerful geometrical shape when it comes to the energy.
And they were building pyramids above existing natural sources.
Below the Bosnian pyramid of the sun, we have a huge iron plate or iron ore.
Why?
Because iron generates electromagnetic field.
What the pyramid does, it amplifies it.
Below the pyramid, 21 meters, there is an underground water stream.
Water moves, releases negative ions.
The pyramid amplifies.
55 meters below, another water stream, between two water streams, electricity is generated.
Then we have natural magnetism.
Then we have ultrasound.
Then we have orgon or life energy.
So the pyramid is actually huge energy amplifier.
And this is what is the biggest discovery.
Instead of bedtime stories about pyramids being tombs for one dead body of the king or pharaoh, the pyramids were built for the generations to last for thousands of years.
The Bosnian Pyramid of the Sun is active even today.
So that energy beam that we've been measuring by teams from Italy, Germany, Croatia, Serbia and Finland is showing, so five teams, five independent times with their own equipment, everybody's getting the same results.
In science, it is called an independent scientific verification of the phenomenon.
This energy beam going through the top of the pyramid and getting stronger and stronger, meaning, theoretically, it can go through our solar system to any other solar system or galaxy.
So, when the last time physicists were here, they were using drones and hanging their instruments.
We have proven that this electrical field is actually so-called scalar waves or Tesla's waves or torsion fields.
And we know for the torsion fields that they move quicker than the speed of light.
And you know that our physics and astronomy is based on Einstein's hypothesis that this is the biggest speed in the universe?
It seems that it is not.
Because the scalar waves move 10 billion times quicker.
Then the speed of light.
So, are you saying that these pyramids in Bosnia, this one in particular, was at the core of some kind of nexus of communication without a space?
Excellent.
So, it seems that we are in presence of a very powerful communication device.
So, it's very possible that the first potential purpose of pyramids was communication on very vast distances.
The second one, the healing aspect.
The third one, we are finding tunnels under the pyramids with the water.
We've analyzed the water.
First, conventional analysis, chemical, you know, and the others.
Water is free of the viruses, bacterias.
But then we've done more analysis proving that this water actually vibrates much higher than our water that you and I drink in the bottles or, you know, in our kitchens.
The water that we drink, there are no viruses or microbes, but there is chlorine, which is poison, fluorides, poison, traces of heavy metals, poison.
The water that we drink is energetically there.
But the water under the Bosnian pyramids, energetically alive, it vibrates very high.
Why is that important?
We are what we drink.
We are what we think.
We are what we eat.
If you drink and eat low energy, you vibrate low.
And then our, you know, features like being angry, upset, jealous, violent prevail.
Instead, having love for everyone.
And then we vibrate high.
And this is why it's important to have a high vibration of the most important liquid in our life, which is the water.
Element number four for the purpose of pyramids.
The pyramid energy improves our food.
You place the seeds in the pyramid.
You plant it.
It grows quicker, richer, and healthier than, you know, other plants.
The next thing, we have a special device developed by Professor Korokov from Russia to measure the auric field, bioenergy field around body.
We measure people, last year, 750 people.
Before entering the tunnels, once they come back after one hour, their auric field is always improved.
The chakra system, they become balanced and they are bigger so energy can flow better.
So it's seen that pyramid energy can be used on different levels.
And this is the secret of pyramids.
So instead of Egyptologists and archaeologists who jealously guard their projects in Egypt, China, Peru, Mexico, we have to be open.
We have to open for other scientific disciplines, but also for the spiritual science, for the energy aspects, for the healing aspects.
And then, and only then, we can understand places like not only pyramids in Bosnia, Egypt, Peru, Mexico, but also megalithic sites like Stonehenge, like Ebrey Hill, like Karnak in France, like Alice Tenner in Sweden, Ruzmel here in Israel.
The ancients were smart.
They knew how to amplify natural energy sources.
And they were getting the best frequencies, not unlike our society.
You and I, we live in society where we have 220 volts or 110 volts.
Electricity, you touch it, it kills you.
We have our mobile phones or our Wi-Fi that works at 5 gigahertz, 5G or 4G.
This is the frequency of the microwave.
It is proven that it causes the brain cancer.
Well, there is a lot of, there are some studies, but there are a lot of people who dispute those things, but I hear what you say.
So, it seems that ancients were very smart by building those pyramid complexes all around the planet.
What we have proven in Bosnia is the new definition of the pyramids.
Element number one, geometry.
You have to have geometry of four-sided pyramids, like in Bosnia, Egypt, or Cambodia.
The second element, artificial construction material.
In Peru, they use adobe bricks.
In Mexico, they use sandstone and granite.
In Egypt, limestone and granite.
In Bosnia, concrete blocks.
Element number three, orientation of the sides to the cardinal points, east, west, north, south.
Bosnian pyramids being the most precise pyramids.
Number four, water.
Always a very important element.
River Nile in Egypt, major rivers in China and Mexico.
Two major rivers here in Bosnia, rivers Fornica and Bosnia.
And a lot of underground water flow.
Element number five.
It's inner passageways and chambers.
In Bosnian Pyramid of the Sun, we have seven levels of inner passageways and tunnels.
And they are laid out like a spiral, you know, going towards the top.
The next element, astronomical features.
When we follow the shadow of the Bosnian Pyramid of the Sun in the summer, the shadows just before the sunset completely covers the western side of the Bosnian Pyramid of the Moon.
The next element, sacred geometry.
In Bosnia, three major pyramids, Sun, Moon, Dragon, form perfect equilateral triangle, which is perfect geometrical shape, part of sacred geometry.
You have sacred geometry.
You have movement of the energy.
And finally, the location of the pyramid.
Always very important.
I mentioned natural energy sources like iron, like, you know, negative ions and so on.
But also, the Bosnian Pyramid of the Sun is located above intersection of the sun.
of 26 volcanic lines so why volcanic lines are important because volcano it means lava, iron, minerals, energy.
It has always been about the energy.
So, we have proven our point.
Not only that we have the biggest construction complex in the world, but also the oldest energy machines that's been working continuously for over 30,000 years as first perpetual motion machines.
And one last note.
This project is the most open project in the world.
No place for selected information or elite science.
We have opened our projects from the first day for professionals and non-professionals.
Every June, July, August, September, we have hundreds of volunteers who come to Wisoko, town where the pyramids were discovered, work with us, uncover new square meters of concrete blocks.
They are discovering underground tunnels, artifacts, organic materials.
They have become part of discovery.
In the last eight years only, we have had 3,100 volunteers from 62 countries and six continents, a lot of them coming from England, and they are becoming our best ambassadors.
Okay, and it's a story that still needs to get out there even more by the sounds of it, because the stories out of Egypt are always in the popular press here in the UK, but not so your work.
So, you know, you still have a little way to go, I guess.
What about the artifacts, Sam?
What are they telling you?
Now, we've been working on a huge area of more than 40 square kilometers, and we've been covering more than 40,000 years of the history of central Bosnia.
Among other things, we've discovered 9,000 pieces of ceramics.
However, most of it is from Neolithic times, some from Paleolithic.
But we have found so far four different types of writings.
Maybe the most interesting is the runic symbols or runes.
According to mainstream science, the runes are about 2,500 years old.
According to some independent researchers, it's about 8,000.
It's probably even more than that.
Runes were symbols, meaning every symbol had its meaning.
It's like our alphabet, our letters, A, B, C, they don't mean nothing.
Only when you put four or five of them together, you're getting words.
But runes were very complex.
You had to have very educated to decipher them.
We discovered eight runes on one of the blocks in underground tunnels.
And decipherment by professor from US goes like this.
The gate has been closed.
We are at standstill.
We will have to stay to defend ourselves and conquer until the cosmic gate is open again.
So this indicates then, if that message is correct and has been deciphered correctly, that these people were facing some kind of threat.
And the threat was from within, or the threat was from on Earth.
But the sustenance that they get, the support that they were hoping to get, comes from space.
And the channel to space was somehow blocked, stopping them getting support against the people who are trying to supplant them.
Have I read that right or got that completely wrong?
It is very possible.
However, in the meantime, I asked more people to decipher it.
The second translation was very similar to the first one, but it had water, huge water involved, maybe the end of the last ice age or flood waves or something like that.
But there was some grave danger to either the pyramid builders or people who were using the tunnels thousands of years back.
So 13 years of our project, in archaeology, it's a very short period of time.
Egyptology, it's the second century, and we still do not have the major answers who, when, how, and why.
So I think in 13 years, we've done much more because we are applying interdisciplinary scientific approach.
Right.
One of the people who've written about you that I read online just before we did this recording suggested, and I think it's a fascinating suggestion and it may hold water, you tell me, is that one of the reasons we are discovering all of this comparatively late is that information from what was the Eastern Bloc when I was a boy,
and when you were a boy too, I guess, was not flowing out as well as it was flowing out from Egypt and other places in the world, South America included, and that now the East, as was, is catching up.
Do you buy that?
Well, I'm not quite sure about that.
But in a sense, we know that there are so many places in Russia, in Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, they haven't been touched yet by the Western scientists.
A lot of megalithic sites.
I don't think pyramids, but megalithic sites and tumulant phenomena.
A lot of tumulus phenomena in the Eastern world, in Bulgaria, in Czech Republic, in Slovakia.
And I've been watching those people when they come to Bosnian pyramids.
They are so spiritual, advanced souls.
So after the breakup of Soviet Union, I think the big changes have been happening.
But generally speaking, when you talk to some people today, you ask them about the pyramids, it's only about Egyptian and Mexican.
They don't talk about Chinese pyramids, and there are 250 of them in the central province of Shanxi, 300 pyramids in Peru, Bolivia, not to mention a number of pyramids that have not been discovered yet, like in Amazon, in Colombia, on the bottom of the Caribbean floor, Atlantic floor.
So simply the world of the past was the world of the pyramids because the ancients were aware Of the power of the pyramids.
It was always about the energy of the pyramids that the pyramids create.
And the ancients knew exactly what was happening under the ground.
They knew about the lane lines, they knew about Hartmann grades, you know, Curie's grades, Schneider's grades.
We are just starting to learn.
You have some dowsers and stuff.
So it's not a science yet.
In the Eastern world, however, China, India, and Russia, yes.
So I think that the West will need to catch up actually with that new or ancient knowledge.
Now, this is where it starts to get maybe somewhat controversial.
Who was providing these ancients with their information?
They knew a lot.
It may not have all been evolution.
You are saying, I think, that their inspiration was coming from space, perhaps the Pleiades?
Well, actually, I never said that, but I know that Wikipedia, some other sources claim that I said that.
Actually, when I write my books, I take different references, and then people think that this is what I claim.
However, in a case, for example, of Bosnian pyramids, people often ask me, who built them?
I say, listen, I'm a scientist.
I need to have scientific arguments to give a conclusion.
At this point, I am open for different options.
Were they built by humans?
It is possible.
Why is it possible?
Because according to new science called anthropological genetics, we know the movement of every nation in the world.
The oldest people in Europe are the Basques, 55,000 years, Spain and southern France.
The second oldest cultural oasis in Europe is Balkan, and Bosnia in the heart of the Balkans, 38,000 years.
So is it possible that that intelligent man, it is the man like you and I today, did they somehow get the knowledge about the pyramid building, about the energies?
It is theoretically possible.
Did they build them?
We don't know.
Is it possible that builders actually came from the outer space?
It is possible, but we don't see signs of who built them.
Is it possible that they came from the inner earth?
If we believe in that hypothesis, it's possible.
Is it possible that they came from different dimensions, that there were some spiritual entities?
So at this point, I would say there are a lot of options, but as a scientist, only when we find indisputable proof of the builders, then we can say, yes, those pyramids were built by science of civilization.
And what sorts of clues are any hieroglyphics or graphics that you may be discovering, giving you?
I think that the four different forms of the writing that we are discovering, they are all much younger than the pyramid builders.
If we agree that the dating, and we've done 17 radiocarbon dating so far, and they are all from the period from 21,000 years ago to 55,000 years ago, but majority of them are about 30,000, 32,000, 34,000 years back.
So we don't have any records, any references as to who lived then and what did they do, whatever capabilities.
Is it possible that Bosnian pyramids are just one episode?
Like, for example, stone heads in Eastern Ireland, some civilization simply landed or came there, they built it, they disappeared.
We don't see evolutionary process there.
It's also possible.
But then again, it's just speculation at this point.
And we try to answer the question, who?
We are much better when it comes to the questions when, how, and especially why.
What was the purpose?
It was about the energy because those phenomena we can measure using our scientific instruments.
Do you think these sites, including Vishoku, are likely to throw up more secrets?
Perhaps if you dig deeper, there are those who suggest that if you go further down, there are quite a number of what may be regarded as renegade scientists saying this, that if you go even further down, there will be much bigger surprises to be found.
It is very possible.
You know, I'm open for different sources, you know, psychic scam, Akashic record readers, all these people who are channeling.
I'm getting all kinds of information.
For example, some of them are telling me, well, it is very dangerous.
Do not do that.
Some of them are telling me, well, it is time to discover all this.
You are going too slow.
But then, you know, as a scientist, I'm finding the best way as far as the safety and, you know, our capabilities.
Now, when it comes to the tunnels, we know about the first level, which is a huge labyrinth.
But just recently, we've discovered the entrance to the second level tunnels, which we named Ravne 2.
The first level Ravne, the second level, Ravne 2.
And now there are people who are saying that there are between three and seven levels of tunnels.
It is possible.
We have not discovered them yet.
And then there is an option, of course, that deeper you go, you'll be able to maybe connect to some deep underground network, which maybe goes below the whole countries and the continents.
Well, maybe.
I'm not sure yet.
There are some people who are talking about UFOs and space shapes below the pyramids, above the pyramids, coming, getting the energy.
But then we still need hard proofs for that.
And as you go further down, presumably for the teams who are doing this work, the risks get somewhat greater.
You have to be very careful doing this kind of work.
Well, you are right.
Safety is my priority number one.
Namely, we know that there is this network of tunnels, they go under all the pyramids.
But the interesting thing is, 5,000 years ago, another civilization came and they filled all existing tunnels and chambers with the filler material.
Filler material is consisting of pebbles, rocks, sand.
So what we actually do, we remove the filler and every 10 meters there are drywalls.
We remove the drywalls and we move slowly toward the pyramid.
The entrance that we discovered is two and a half kilometers from the pyramid.
So far we have shortened the distance for about 650 meters, but we've opened about 2,100 meters of prehistorical tunnels.
So, the point is, there is still a long way to go.
Deeper we go, the process is getting slower.
Everything we do, we do manually, you know, with the wheelbarrows.
This is how we remove the material.
We cannot use the equipment because the equipment vibrate, and the vibration could cause the tunnel wall to collapse.
That's why we have to be very delicate work.
Have you any idea why anybody who came after these ancients would want to fill these tunnels in?
Was there some kind of deliberate motive for wanting to hide what they had?
At the beginning, we thought, since they've done so much work, I mean, we are talking hundreds of thousands of tons of materials, millions of stones, in order to build those drywalls.
We thought they wanted to hide something big, you know, something important.
You know, for us, it can be sarcophagus or it can be gold.
However, I think it's something even more important.
What is more important than, you know, precious gold?
Well, technology.
It seems that through those tunnels, the energy was flowing, because you can measure electromagnetic fields and electrical fields and ultrasound.
Energy was flowing through the labyrinth.
When it flows through the labyrinth, it's getting stronger.
And the pyramid has the power to pull all these energies and then going through the seven levels of passageways inside the pyramid and then going through the top.
So it's actually a very complex machine using many natural elements to get that.
But once you filled all the tunnels, they're completely sealed off, the energy stops flowing.
Without the energy, the machine, the pyramid, is getting weak.
So does this suggest, Sam, that maybe somebody who came later, and we're perhaps an example of this, didn't quite have the degree of knowledge that the people who went before had, and maybe they didn't understand what they were dealing with, so they felt the only way to stop it was to fill it in?
Let's speculate.
The builders made energy machine.
Energy machine you can use for good purposes, but also you can abuse it.
It's like with the laser today.
If you have a laser, you use it in medicine.
It's positive purpose.
But with the laser, you can kill the enemy.
And obviously for that enemy, that laser energy is not positive.
It becomes very negative for him.
I think it's very possible that somebody was abusing the energy of the largest pyramids.
And then somebody decided to basically close all the tunnels.
And instead of strong energy machine, you have today weak machine.
It still works, it still has frequencies, but it does not have strength.
And do you hope that you will find the secrets that will re-enliven, re-engage this technology?
You know, since we do measurements every day, negative ions, temperature, humidity, electromagnetism, ultrasound, and so on, we can see the changes.
In the beginning, for example, the concentration of negative ions, extremely important element in the tunnels, was at some places up to 18,000 negative ions per cubic centimeter.
And this is a lot.
I mean, the highest concentration in Bosnia is on the mountain Igman with the forest, beautiful with ozone, negative ions, healing, 4,000.
We had 18,000.
It was eight years ago.
This winter, as we are opening more and more tunnels, we are reaching 400,000.
It means that the energy starts flowing stronger and quicker and better as we open more tunnels.
So I think we are into a lot of surprises as we are getting closer to the pyramid.
I think that we will be seeing some huge, huge energy changes.
So yes, I would say there is a possibility, like you say, to reignite this machine again.
And crazy as it may sound, outlandish as it may sound, do you believe that these pyramids were communicating with the pyramids in Egypt, communicating with structures that the Mayans may have created?
Is there any suggestion that there may be that kind of network?
What I learned, there is nothing crazy, nothing outlandish.
I mean, anything is possible, because if there is somebody who can create scalar waves that can move through the space with a huge speed, I would say for them, it was just a matter of technical issue, technical challenge.
Now, theoretically, if you have an energy beam coming from the Bosnia, the Sun, and you have some type of collector in the atmosphere, that one can collect also energy beams from Egypt, from Peru, from Mexico, from China, from Cambodia, from different countries.
And once you have those collectors, then you can simply redistribute the energy.
You can, for example, make very powerful protection shield around our planet.
Or you can, you know, attack some enemies.
It's always the question how to get huge quantities of energies.
And the ancients knew that.
I suppose, and this is on one level a dumb question, and on one level not.
People might ask, if they were so intelligent and they were so advanced, why did they die out?
Why would they stay on our planet?
Our planet is actually very low vibration and there is not much space to advance here spiritually.
So I would say it could be one experience and then due to maybe several global catastrophes, they thought there is no need for them to stay there.
When talking about the ancient civilizations and what they could achieve, we simply have to stay more open-minded.
Because if we think that we are the most intelligent, the most developed and the most beautiful beings ever created on the face of this planet or in the universe, we are so wrong and egoistic.
We simply need to act as students who are ready to learn.
It doesn't matter if you are 20 years old or 75 years old, if you go to college or if you are head of archaeological institutes.
Because on the face of this planet, we are finding so many traces of more advanced technologies.
It's not only about the moving huge quantities of materials, blocks of 1,200 tons like those in bulb bags.
It is really more about technology.
Because they think that our ways are the only ways.
If you want to move 1,000 tons, then we need to create a device with a capacity of 2,000 tons.
Interestingly enough, until 15 years ago, our cranes had limits of 350 tons, pull back blocks four times bigger.
So, as long as we are ready to learn, then we will be seeing the world of the past with different eyes.
And then, yes, we need to respect what the independent researchers are bringing to the tables.
Unfortunately, very often they don't apply scientific methodology, but they do have some good creative ideas.
So, we combine their ideas, we combine the knowledge of the mainstream science, and even we use as a hint the ideas from spiritual researchers.
I think we'll be on a good track.
You seem to have a fair amount of support at home in Bosnia.
I'm reading here that in 2006, 12 years ago, somebody called Suleiman Tihic, chairman of Bosnia's three-member presidency, endorsed your work as saying basically one does not need to be a big expert to see that those are the remains of three pyramids.
So, you've got a certain amount of backing at home.
Well, this project has been bringing, I would say, polarized opinions.
On one hand, it is almost complete cultural establishment.
Archaeologists, geologists, historians, museum curators who never came to the Bosnian pyramid site, but unanimously saying there is nothing there, the project should be stopped.
On the other hand, we have majority of the public, we have a lot of politicians, you know, presidents of Bosnia, prime ministers, ministers from different levels who would come to the site.
They would be very impressed with what they saw.
Plus, of course, we have the aspect of the tourism, you know, after years of destruction during the 90s and the terrible war, there is finally something positive happening.
It's a idea that Bosnia is also a land of pyramids, land of research and archaeology and tourists and volunteers, only positive news.
Of course, some of your scientific colleagues have said in the past, haven't they, that the work that you're doing is soaking up resources, is taking away money from other scientific projects in Bosnia, where that money could be better spent.
That is the claim from 2006 when we got a little bit of money from the government, very small amounts.
However, in the last 13 years, me personally, I have been the biggest donor to my business in Houston, Texas.
I've been investing hundreds of thousands of euros every year.
In the last 10 years, our non-profit foundation has not received a penny from the level of municipality, company level, federal level, or state government for our work.
We self-finance our activities through the tourism, through the visitors, through the tickets and the sites and the books.
Of course, it's not much money, but it helps.
Plus, of course, hundreds of volunteers are helping us tremendously to remove huge quantities of soil from the concrete blocks and from the tunnels.
So, I would say the big help is there, a lot of enthusiasm, and it's completely different than other projects who rely exclusively on budget, government, ministries of culture.
I asked you this question at the beginning in a slightly different way.
So, I just want to finally nail this one down.
Do you believe, from the work that you've been doing in recent decades, that Bosnia was at the center of some kind of network?
Because you say some of this technology, some of the things that you've seen are more advanced than perhaps seen elsewhere, do you think that Bosnia was the main place?
There are many sites on the planet that have been destroyed in the last tens of thousands of years.
So we actually don't know how many pyramids, how many energy complexes were built.
But what we are finding in the case of the Bosnian pyramids, we know, we realize that it was a huge energy complex that required a huge knowledge of technology, of energy phenomena, engineering skills, and so on.
Was it the center in the planetary realm?
I don't know, but I know that it was very important.
So, most probably the ancients had similar centers on all continents.
So, they would form a huge network and then they would use a synergy, energy coming from different pyramid complexes.
It's fascinating work, and I can't wait to see what you discover in future.
Now, one of the reasons we've had some difficulties with the sound, and not very many difficulties, but we've had a little bit of breakup, is that you're using a mobile connection.
And the reason for that is that you're on location at the moment.
At the beginning of this, you sent me some video.
I can see that you're dressed in your archaeologist kit with your archaeologist's hat.
What are you doing right now?
What we are doing now is we are opening more tunnels in underground labyrinth.
We are removing the material there.
And then we started building more stuff on healing aspects.
We are building a healing center here that we call it Air Spa because we've seen so many cases of improved health.
So, we are trying to cover that aspect.
We are covering archaeological aspects.
Just last week, we had our sixth international scientific conference about Bajan pyramids, having participants from Russia, US, India, Germany, Serbia.
And Then we have more conferences organized.
But then also, this project is much more than that.
Every June we organize our festivals for the summer solstice, having people from all over the world.
We have people from Israel, from Arab countries, from India, from all over Europe, from the US.
It is a place where people meet.
And unlike Egyptian pyramids, where people, when they want to prove that they were there, they make a photo in front of the pyramid and make a photo of them riding the camels.
In our case, they come, they see, they enter the tunnels, they meditate, they feel the energies.
So they use all their physical and spiritual senses and they are very happy.
It's completely new approach to the discoveries.
When you add the fact that they can actually dig with us, participate in a major way, they can talk to us, to archaeologists and geologists, and share the knowledge with all our participants, it is a completely new way how to do the archaeology.
One of the things they had to do in Egypt and they had to do in places like Stonehenge is protect the sites because so many people were going there and they were wearing them away.
Are you mindful of that?
Well, of course we are, but we're not even close to that.
In Egypt, you know, for example, until 10 years ago, they would have 15 million tourists visiting Egyptian pyramids.
In Bosnia, we have 50,000.
Stonehenge, you get 50,000 only during one day, you know, summer solstice or spring equinox.
So it'll take years and years until we reach the level that we have so many visitors.
However, our site is so huge.
This is the biggest complex.
It is 40 square kilometers.
You go to Stonehenge, you can have only what, 40, 50 people at the same time.
In our case, we could theoretically have 10,000 people.
And then, yes, when you ask me about the protection, there were some rumors 10, 12 years ago what they're going to do.
Well, we work 12 months a year.
Any other archaeological project, it's usually 15 or 30 days a year, 10, 15 diggers, one archaeologist.
In our case, it is all 12 months we are present there.
We take care of our surfaces that we uncovered.
We take care of the tunnels.
But also, we allow visitors to come to any place, of course, supervised by our official guides.
At this point, we have 25 official guides that we trained without help of the government.
So we do everything we can in, I would say, proper way.
Well, I wish you luck, Sam.
It's fascinating to speak with you, and I'm glad we overcame the communication difficulties.
If you're ever visiting London, I would love to put you on my radio show and speak with you again.
But I hope we can catch up on this work at a future date.
Thank you for giving me your time.
I'll be happy to come and invitation to you and all your listeners to come to join to see this unique and fascinating place.
Okay, what is your website so people can make the first step perhaps on that journey?
Our website is Bosnianpyramid.org.
Bosnianpyramid.org.
Yes.
Sam, I wish you well in all your endeavors.
Dr. Sam Osmanagic from Bosnia, actually working on his field of endeavor right at this moment, which is pretty impressive.
Sam, thank you again.
Fascinating.
Dr. Sam Osmanagic, exploring what the systems of tunnels and pyramids in Bosnia may have to tell us about the ancient world and the people who were here, long, long before us.
I find all of this fascinating, and it's part of a jigsaw, isn't it, that is being assembled worldwide of knowledge that seems to be gathering pace and getting faster and faster.
We seem to be learning much more all the time, not only about the pyramids of Egypt and the ancients there, but also ancient civilizations in South America, places like Turkey and Bosnia.
It is remarkable.
And I think we have many more revelations still to come.
Your thoughts about Sam and his work?
Very welcome.
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