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May 23, 2018 - The Unexplained - Howard Hughes
01:11:19
Edition 347 - Phoenix Lights Revisited

A welcome return for Dr Lynne Kitei who saw and recorded America's strangest and mostwidespread aerial events...

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Across the UK, across continental North America, and around the world on the internet, by webcast and by podcast, my name is Howard Hughes, and this is the Return of the Unexplained.
My apologies, whatever bug that I've had recently that has been on my chest is still making me kind of chesty and a little hoarse, if you can hear that.
Maybe it's subtle, but I'm still aware of it, and I'm trying to do as much as I can about that.
But if you know of any good remedies, I'd love to hear from you.
I've had some really nice emails recently, and just when I thought that The Unexplained maybe had reached peak unexplained, and as many people who were going to find the show have found it, I've had a whole raft recently of new people getting in touch and telling me how they use the show and what it means to them.
So thank you very much.
If you want to get in touch with me and tell me about your experience with The Unexplained, how you use the show, maybe people you'd like to hear on the show in the future, just go to my website, theunexplained.tv, designed by Adam from Creative Hotspot in Liverpool, and you can send me guest suggestions, thoughts on the show, whatever it may be from there.
Always good to hear from you.
In fact, vital really to open my inbox in the morning and see the direction of travel here.
Now, I know some of you might be thinking we've had a lot of UFO and kind of space-related shows recently.
You know, sometimes we get spates of them.
It's just how the guest booking goes and the fact that some people are available at a particular time and it's good to get them on.
And plus, I have to say, just being selfish, I love these topics.
They were so much beloved of the great Art Bell when he was doing shows.
And indeed, we are going to talk about a topic that he was instrumental in breaking?
Well, maybe certainly in disseminating to the world.
I'm talking about the Phoenix Lights.
I will remember the Phoenix Lights as something that Art Bell was talking about a year after they happened and many years after they happened.
You know, they were a series of phenomena so strange, so bizarre, and in some ways so chilling that I don't think those people who experienced them and those people who've been investigating them have still managed to get their heads around the enormity of what apparently occurred and what might have been behind what occurred on the night, but other nights also.
There was one report of something kicking all of this off 24 hours before what we see as being the official start of the Phoenix Lights.
It is a mishmash of phenomena and reports and eyewitness accounts and audio and video that people have taken over the years.
Lynn Kitte was on this show probably, I think, eight or nine years ago, and we did quite a long show about the Phoenix Lights, and I was very impressed by her as somebody who'd experienced this phenomenon, ongoing, we have to say, which was a surprise to me at the time.
And what I wanted to do was to bring her back now on this edition and revisit what we know about it, how we interpret it now, and what may have happened in the intervening years, and certainly the years since last we spoke.
So that's what we plan to do on this edition of The Unexplained.
Thank you very much for keeping the faith with me.
If you can make a donation for the show, that would be fantastic.
And, you know, I promise to keep the faith with you and do this show and, you know, keep it as fresh as you believe it is.
Many of you, thank you.
And also as good as you've said that you believe it is over the years.
You know, I'm just doing something that I love here.
And the fact that I've managed to get myself an international audience in doing it is an absolute blast for me.
So thank you very, very much.
Okay, let's cross to the U.S. now and a return visit to The Unexplained to Dr. Lynn Kitte.
And we're going to talk about the Phoenix Lights revisited.
Dr. Lynn, thank you very much for coming back on my show.
My pleasure.
I really applaud you for helping get the facts out there because there is so much mis and disinformation concerning what has become the most historic, most witnessed, and most documented, and I dare say most important mass anomalous aerial sighting in modern history.
So it's called worldwide.
That's absolutely true.
Can we establish one thing, which we established the last time we spoke, I think about eight years or so ago, whenever it was.
Wow.
I've heard various pronunciations of your last name, okay?
I've heard Kitai, and I've always thought of you as Kitai.
Right, which is correct, actually.
That's why when I started doing health reporting, as a medical doctor on NBC in Philadelphia, and then in a syndication grew from that, and then in Phoenix, I also started a health reporting program in USA Cable.
They called me Dr. Lin because it's a lot easier.
But it is pronounced Ki Tai, Dr. Ki Tai, like a Ki and a Tai, Dr. Ki Tai.
That's how I always thought of you after the last conversation when we got that cleared up.
It was stuck in my brain.
But since then, I've heard and seen a lot of video and audio material where people have referred to you in various ways.
And you've always been very polite in accepting whatever pronunciation they've given when they've introduced you.
But, you know, we're British.
We want to get it right.
I appreciate that.
But it's not about the data.
It's about, I mean, it's not about me.
It's about the data.
That's what's most important to me.
So whatever they call me, as long as it's nice, I'm very open to sharing the data, which took me seven years after over 10,000 people saw what I had been documenting for two years prior, which we can get into.
This is the remarkable thing, and this is the thing that captivates me as somebody who goes back to the early days of the late and great art bell listening to this phenomenon being reported by him and the story being broken gradually, not immediately by him.
That's something we'll get into.
The way that this came out was not the way that a standard news event would come out.
It took time and it took some interpretation.
But like I say, this has had an enduring fascination for me because of the size and scale of this and because of what appears to be, and we'll unpick the detail of it as we go through this, but what appears to be not misreporting perhaps, but under-reporting of the entire thing.
If it was so big, which it was, and it affected so many people in so many various ways, some people left absolutely traumatized and scared by what they experienced.
How strange is it not that what we like to call the mainstream media these days hasn't done the greatest job, maybe better recently, but hasn't done over the years the greatest job of reflecting this?
Actually, Howard, much more has come to light since we talked eight years ago, number one.
Number two, there is so much miss and disinformation.
That was what prompted me after seven years of intense research, having been a key witness, the only witness with 35 millimeter photographs that have been analyzed and authenticated as true unknowns by university and military optical scientists,
to come forward, particularly not only to get the truth and the data out there and people can decide for themselves what they want to do with it, because I had a 750-page journal seven years later that after the mass sighting, after thousands of people saw what I had been seeing and trying to find a logical explanation for the anomalies,
which I have yet to find 21 years later, but at any rate had a 750-page journal that I finally, as a scientist, as a physician, as an experiencer myself, up close and personal two years before the mass sighting, and as an educator for over 40 years on the reality of vital health issues, I felt it was imperative to get the information out there so people can decide for themselves and see what really happened here, not what the media take is.
And I have to say, too, to correct you on one thing, there has not been one, and this is really important, and one of the other reasons I came forward, because I am an up-close and personal experiencer with the same experience as over 10,000 people had on March 13th, there is not one, has not been one credible report of harm, threat, or abduction associated with the phenomenon known as the Phoenix Lights.
Can talk for other things, but the Phoenix lights, which were for anybody out there that doesn't know what happened here on March 13th, 1997, while thousands of people were looking skyward for a glimpse of the Hailbop Comet, not only statewide, but across the United States, a mile to two mile wide and larger.
You mentioned Peter Davenport earlier to me, who is the head of the National UFO Reporting Center in Seattle, Washington, just mentioned to me last year, and he got thousands of reports, that one of the craft, and there were multiple craft, I'm going to get into that, was actually eight miles wide.
But anyway, people were seeing orbs, these orbs, these balls of light and rock-solid, equidistantly spaced V formations traverse the entire state silently right over their heads, rooftop level, or actual craft.
And for anyone interested in seeing my pictures, which is a unique collection of these anomalous aerial phenomena that till today have been analyzed and authenticated as true unknowns, please go to the Phoenix Lights Network website, which is www.thephoenixlights.net photo page, as well as the GAP page.
Now, people don't know about this unless they study my data, because there was not just one or two events, as you would hear in the military, in the media, or by the military, but there were many events over a dozen hours, starting at 3 p.m. in the afternoon on March 13th and extending at the 5 o'clock hour.
The same phenomena were seen in New Mexico by Native Americans, 7 o'clock hour in California.
Actually, the 11 o'clock hour, if we have time to talk about this sighting by two commercial airline pilots, one of these craft, and there were 10 different craft, covered Las Vegas.
And that's an interesting story in and of itself.
And then at 3 a.m. the next morning, a call came into the National UFO Reporting Center by an alleged crewman from Luke Air Force Base, who very detailed report, and some of that report actually in our documentary shared that there was one of these craft, mile-wide craft, hovering right over central Phoenix about 8.30 that evening.
And military jets were sent out to intercept it.
As they got close, and we're talking about incredible technology, which I'll get into in a second.
But as they got close, the lights dimmed on this craft.
And then the whole craft blinked out and actually freaked out one of the pilots, who the crewman said he helped out of his aircraft.
And then after the military left, it appeared again.
And there were civilians that saw all this and then headed towards the airport.
Then we have the latest report that I have personally was from a crew person from Boeing, a Boeing crewman, who said that his entire crew was coming into work at Sky Harbor International Airport at 5.30 a.m. and saw one of these craft hovering right over their tarmac.
So we're talking about many, many hours.
Plus, there were orb formations hovering different areas at the same time.
In fact, if you go to the GAP page, GAP, on the Phoenix Lights Network website.
Okay, and of course, we'll recapitulate all of these details at the back end of our conversation.
Sure.
So that people don't have to write it down right now.
No, okay, that would be great.
But there's 10 different craft.
Now, whether it was one craft, and this is from a 12-year study of thousands of reports from the National UFO Reporting Center in Seattle, Washington, Arizona MUFON Mutual UFO Network, which is a reporting center, as well as Village Labs, which was a clearinghouse here, a computer lab for most of the reports, as well as Councilwoman Frances Barwood, and we can get into her story.
She was the only elected official who asked innocently for an investigation, and she was slammed by the media.
And from 12 years of thousands of reports, and two or more people had to see the same craft, and they're very different.
If you look at the pictures on the Phoenix Lights Network website, there were 10 different crafts.
Now, whether it was one craft that could morph into looking differently or perspective from where the person was standing or actual Parade, which is what the investigators, after 12 years, ultimately concluded.
Because again, there were many things happening at the same time in different areas at rooftop level.
And when I talk about traversing through the entire state, as well as New Mexico and California and Nevada for over a dozen hours, people were seeing not only these massive craft and some of them, one of them split in two and shot up in the air, others would hover and then take off at blink speed without even dispersing the air.
Totally silent.
That was what was so eerie to people, but they were in awe and wonder and excitement.
And we can get into how it affected people in real time and long term.
But the technology itself, which you have not seen anything like this in 21 years, people saw these orbs detach from the main craft, go out into the environment, and then redock with it later.
Others actually saw gunmetal on the bottom of these craft, windows in these craft, as well as beings at the windows.
Other people just saw the stars being blocked out between these giant lights.
We have a pilot in the documentary, our Internationally Award-winning Phoenix Lights documentary, who was right under one of these craft and describes these giant wells or canisters of spinning energy in these lights.
It did not reflect out.
It was all self-contained.
I mean, just incredible technology, to be sure.
Okay, now look, there are so many disparate things involved in this, plus people's interpretation.
I mean, we're talking about so many people experiencing.
I think we have to slow down a bit and start unpicking this.
As far as I have been aware, and maybe you can tell me if I'm wrong, the phenomena that we know as the Phoenix lights or have been agglomerated into this one term began on not the 13th, but apparently the first report was what, Henderson, Nevada.
As you said, neighboring areas were affected.
Henderson, Nevada, March 12th.
Is that so?
That was the first official report on March 13th was about 8 p.m. from a police officer, retired police officer in Henderson and upstate Arizona.
But you have to look at the whole picture.
Not only did these phenomena start about 3 p.m. on daylight sightings of these phenomena on March 13th, but we have to go back to actually 95 when I had my first close sighting.
The same exact phenomena are in the pictures, 35 millimeter in the background in the same exact location that I would also capture.
And this is really important data.
Two months before the mass sighting, I caught the same exact phenomena, mile-wide phenomena, that I would also capture on video during the mass sighting.
But this is two months before in January 97, head-on, turning into a V-shape.
And those pictures, some of the sample of those pictures are on the photo page on the Phoenix Sites Network website for all to see.
And it was so unnerving that I called around the next morning because not having an explanation for the very close sighting we had in 95 of these orbs right outside our bedroom window that were incredible.
And we can get into that if you'd like.
But anyway, I called around, found air traffic controllers at Sky Harbor International Airport who shared with me, were very forthcoming initially, that these phenomena, and in their own words, six points of light, totally equidistant from each other, massive span over a mile wide, about a thousand feet altitude, appeared over Class B restricted airspace.
Now, this is a 30-mile area around the center of the airport where the tower is, where anyone that comes into that airspace must call into the tower, and no one did.
That suggests that were they taken by surprise?
Were they alarmed at the fast appearance of these things?
No, absolutely, Howard.
They were absolutely shocked and concerned because nobody called in.
And here, this gigantic phenomena, anomalies pop up.
They immediately looked on radar, did not show up on radar.
And there was a whole group that saw this.
They picked up their binoculars to look.
And again, in their own words, and they're professional skywatchers, they saw six points of light totally equidistant from each other that seemed to be attached to something, but they couldn't quite see what they were attached to.
And you would hear this again, Howard, by not only people that saw these orbs, but people that, thousands of people during the mass sighting, that they couldn't quite see what these lights were attached to.
There was either a force field in between or they were attached to something that blocked out the stars.
But at any rate, one of the air traffic controllers was a meteorologist, and he reported at that time that this gigantic formation actually turned against the wind.
And I was shooting it with 35 millimeter at this time.
So you can see how it turns and lifted in synchrony, as he put it, and moved very slowly behind South Mountain, which is just south of the airport.
So I said, so what was it?
And there was silence.
And then one of the air traffic controllers said, beats me.
I said, your air traffic controllers are supposed to know it's in our airspace.
They had no idea.
They had ruled out every single possibility of conventional aircraft, as well as flares, as well as balloons, as well as Chinese lanterns, even skydivers with lights.
And we kept in contact.
And the morning after the mass sighting, because I captured the same exact phenomena, but on video, which has become one of the signature, handful of signature videos of that night, my video is the three endpoints of a massive, over a mile-wide V or triangle object.
Called them the next morning, and this is an interesting tidbit.
Not only did they see the same exact thing in the same exact location while I was capturing on video over Class B restricted airspace over Phoenix, but they also reported to me that a pilot, a private pilot, had called into the tower, who was five miles out, and said, what the hell are these lights in front of me?
I even mention It that quote in my book.
Interestingly, just this past summer, when the Guardians of the Galaxy new movie came out, it became known from a UK interview that that pilot was actually Kurt Russell, the actor.
Good Lord.
Yes.
And have you had a chance to speak to Kurt Russell?
Yeah, it'll show his interview online if you look it up.
But what's amazing is I even mentioned it in my book, which finally came out in 2004.
And he's just coming forward this year after 21 years to share that he was a pilot and he looked at his pilot records and he remembers it distinctly.
He was with his son.
They have a home here in the Phoenix area.
And they were coming into Phoenix when this all happened on March 13th, 1997, during the mass sighting.
And what's really interesting, which is not unusual, by the way, is that he had just forgotten the whole thing.
And a couple of years ago, Goldie Hahn, who was his partner, was watching a UFO show and they were talking about the Phoenix lights.
And he happened to walk in and he said, wait a minute, just like, you know, he describes it in his interview as just like close encounters of the third kind.
He just felt like, oh my goodness, I saw that.
And he started to remember as a number of people, including a medical doctor who just came forward this year as well to share his story with his family coming up from Tucson, which is two hours south of Phoenix.
They had this massive craft not only right over them, which extended into the fields, but they also buried the experience for months until they saw something on TV.
And we're talking with Kurt Russell for years.
And then when they saw something, it suddenly awakened that memory.
And I have to tell you, and I mentioned this at the onset, that the mass sighting itself affected people at such a deep level.
Still, to this day, after 21 years, people, again, are just coming forward.
I can absolutely believe that, Dr. Lynn, because how do you rationalize something like that?
The only thing that may, and you know, I have some very skeptical listeners who will contact me and they do.
Skeptical.
And you get the emails too.
They would say about Kurt Russell and the medical doctor only relatively recently realizing the significance of what they may have seen.
There would be those who would say that if it was so significant and so impactful at the time, you couldn't possibly bury something like that.
You'd have to make a big deal about it.
That's a good point.
That's a very good point.
And actually, the doctor's written anonymous letter to MUFON, Mutual UFO Network, at the time, and it was just several months afterwards that he saw it on TV.
And his whole family realized at the same time, wow, we saw that.
It was right over us.
He wrote a very detailed description and sent it to MUFON.
And I actually have that in my book that came forward in 2004.
So, I mean, there were other people that, of course, most people remembered it in real time.
In fact, what's interesting, and we address this in the documentary, is that we have been so inundated with threat, threat, threaten, harm, harm, harm for so many years by the media, by Hollywood, that Dr. Gary Schwartz,
who is the head of the Consciousness Study Department at the University of Arizona, made a very poignant statement in the documentary that if you are so ingrained with the thought that something unusual is going to be threatening, how do you think you're going to react when you see it?
But what's very interesting is that six months before the mass sighting, the movie Independence Day was huge and very popular.
And children who another interesting point is that they were usually the ones to alert their parents of this mile-wide V of lights coming towards them were jumping up and down and up and down, Independence Day, Independence Day.
But as it approached and got closer, a calmness came over everyone, children and adults as well, a connectiveness to the phenomena.
Some even got telepathic messages as the doctor, the MD and his family got, which they describe in his report.
And as it passed, they wanted to chase after it and get in the car and follow it.
In real time, you see a transformation to the positive that whoever was doing this not only wanted to wake people up to their presence in a very non-threatening, benevolent way.
And again, I can't speak for other things, but I can about this because this has been happening for centuries and we can get into that.
But as it passed, I mean, these phenomena, these people were in awe or in wonder or in excitement.
It has affected them.
It's such a good thing.
I guess you get to a threshold, don't you, where something is so big, you think, well, this is overwhelming.
So the only thing to do is whatever's going to happen next.
I just have to experience this.
And maybe that's where that calmness comes from.
There is a point that I cannot let escape.
And there have been many points that have come out that I've needed to amplify here.
But this one, you have, and we brought this out eight years ago when we spoke, so we won't go into this too much, but you say that you have a history of this, not only the sighting that you had, you say, two months before all of this happened, but you said a contact, up close and personal experience.
Was it two years before this?
I think my listener would expect me to ask you about that before we proceed.
Absolutely.
And I appreciate that.
And as you know, Howard, I am a healthy skeptic.
I'm a show-me person.
My book is even called The Phoenix Lights, a Skeptic's Discovery that We Are Not Alone.
After much research, and I'm not saying what these things are, people ask me all the time.
I don't know what they are.
I just know that they are and that it's time we get this topic out in the open.
We address it.
We accept it and we study it so we can find out not only who's driving these things, but also move forward in our own evolution.
Because as I said, these things are really affecting people at a very deep level, not only in real time, but long term.
And my first experience with the Phoenix lights was actually in February of 1995.
And there's many serendipities that happened since this first sighting.
And I do not believe in coincidence anymore.
And I'll get into that a little bit if you like too, Because there are many serendipities that have convinced me that this is not just by chance.
But in 1995, it happened to be the eve of my birthday.
I'll just mention that and put that out there.
But I was taking a leisurely bath in the room adjacent to our main bedroom.
And one wall of our bedroom is a window.
And we live very high on the mountain in Paradise Valley, mountainside in Paradise Valley.
So we have a panoramic view of the city skyline.
And anybody that wants to see, I did post a picture that shows some of that skyline on the Phoenix Lights Network photo page.
But at any rate, we were very familiar with what planes look like and helicopters and streetlights and so forth.
My husband happened to be at that window talking to my mother-in-law who had called from Philadelphia to wish me a happy birthday, when all of a sudden he says, and by the way, he was on several medical boards and hospital boards, not one to be ruffled at all.
But he sounded alarmed and he says, get over here quick.
You got to see this.
And I grabbed my tail, ringing whit, run to the window, and literally under us, I mean, we are very high on the mountain and it's a very treacherous desert landscape with cacti and all that and very, very slippery and rugged below us.
And it's a private gated community with it nestled in the mountain.
So there is no way.
It's a no-fly zone.
So there is no way this could have been military.
But there were three amber orbs in a pyramid formation about 50, 75 feet off the desert floor and a little below us.
And I immediately thought, oh my God, what is that?
And coming from a video background, because as I mentioned earlier, for the last 40 years, I've actually donated my time and expertise to produce video and workbook curriculums on vital health issues, be they AIDS or teen pregnancy or substance abuse prevention education for schools.
Discovery education is distributing them as we speak.
So my first reaction was to grab my video camera, but it was downstairs.
So I didn't want to miss anything.
And that's another poignant point is that most people, as you even addressed earlier, don't want to move.
When they see something that unusual, you don't know how long it's going to last.
You're in awe.
And I tried to take everything in, Howard, the size, the shape, the color.
They were about six feet each, whether three to six feet each, depending on how close they were.
I call them an orb.
And they were actually look like an egg on its side, like an oval shape, but an orb because the light did not extend outside the edge.
It was totally self-contained.
And it was a uniform amber color, yellowish orange.
And you would hear people again describe these lights as amber.
Why they picked that word, I don't know, but over and over again, they would say they were amber.
At any rate, every other light out there glared.
These did not.
Very mesmerizing, very soothing.
And I thought to myself, okay, if I don't get a picture of this, nobody's going to believe it.
So I run to the closet, grab my 35 millimeter camera that I had handy for our beautiful sunsets.
I collect sunsets.
And my husband calls me back.
He says, get over here quick.
One of them is disappearing.
And I have to tell you, this experience itself of watching the top orb without budging from the very close orbs underneath in the pyramid formation actually start to shrink very, very slowly, as if it was imploding mechanically, as if there was an intelligence behind it until it was the size of a P and then disappeared, but it felt like it was still there.
It was just uncanny.
And I stepped on the balcony, got a quick picture of the 35 millimeter photograph.
It's in the negative, of the two lower orbs and immediately noticed an eerie silence as if time had stopped.
It was just bizarre.
And as intently as I was watching these two lower orbs, I mean, it really, there was just not a sound.
It was just bizarre.
It felt like something was watching me.
And I did not share this with a soul until after the mass sighting when I met with investigators.
But going through my mind was, who are you?
What are you?
Do you know that I'm here?
I'd love to meet you.
That was exactly what I said in my mind.
And the next thing I remember, something told me to shoot a picture as the left orb started to shrink, just like the top one did.
And I got a quick picture of that.
That is the only thing I remember, just what I shared with you.
I don't remember the last one disappearing.
I don't remember going in that night.
I don't remember looking at the clock, whatever.
But that picture was the only one that turned out at the time of one half disappeared and one still there, which was awesome.
I mean, here I caught something not only happening in action, but it verified to me that there was something unusual that happened.
I caught it on 35 millimeter, but I didn't know anyone that was involved with the topic.
In fact, I wasn't into the topic at all my entire life.
I stayed away from it because of all the horror stories and the scary things.
And I was so busy doing my own thing and bringing up two young boys to be caring, productive adults.
And yet you seem to have come pretty quickly on that occasion to the conclusion that it must be something energetic and not atmospheric.
Well, oh, absolutely.
These were objects.
Okay.
These were objects.
These were something was an intelligence behind them.
But I didn't even know who to show the picture to.
I knew no one who was into the topic.
I wasn't into the topic.
And as a healthy skeptic, I just wondered for two years what this advanced technology, that's what it, you know, and I considered myself pretty educated, but I knew nothing about this technology that was right outside our bedroom window in a no-fly zone and just wondered about it and saw nothing similar to anything like what we saw until two years later when again, I saw these oars but appear at a distance.
And that's when I started feeling compelled to documenting them again on film, thank goodness, up into and including the mass sighting.
And I have continued to photograph them after it.
I'm very pleased that you got me to that point because this was what I wanted to pick up on and this will bring it up to the present day.
I was really surprised when we spoke eight years, whatever it was ago, when you said these things are still appearing out of the Mountain.
So I'd like you to talk to me about that.
Are they still appearing?
Are you still having these experiences?
Are you still around phenomena?
That's a great question, Howard.
I'm so glad that you mentioned that.
And this is another little coincidence, serendipity.
What was interesting to me, six months before the mass sighting, I was invited to present my substance abuse prevention program at the Gila Bend River Indian Reservation, which is in the basin in between South Mountain.
And again, if you look at the picture on the Phoenix Lights Network photo page, website photo page, you'll see that South Mountain is just south of the airport.
And then a few miles back is the Estraya Mountain Range on the right side.
The South Mountain is on the left side, but they intersect at a certain point in the middle.
And that basin in between is very sacred Native American ground.
And the Gila Native Americans have been there for centuries.
And anyway, I helped them out.
They don't talk to outsiders, but I helped them out six months before the mass sighting with their substance abuse problems.
And after the mass sighting, I noticed that the photographs I had taken and the video as well seemed to be popping up right there where South Mountain and the Astralas intersect.
So I called them up and I asked, did anybody see strange lights on March 13th?
And they started to giggle.
And I said, is that funny?
And they said, are you kidding?
We've been looking up at them for centuries.
We call them sky people, light beings.
It was right above them on March 13th, 1997.
And in fact, they said that's how the Estrellas, which means star in Spanish, got its name from the lore of the day.
And also, they believe that there is a gateway or portal in that area.
And again, I'm, you know, I am open to any logical explanation.
But the way that you put it to me last time, which left me with eight years' worth of questions, really, was that you could almost, it was such a regular phenomenon or set of phenomena that you could almost summon them up.
Well, I hate to say that.
In fact, Dr. Gary Schwartz wanted me to go outside and put my camera there and try to bring them in, but I'm not into that.
I mean, if they show up, that's great.
I'm happy to photograph them.
But to me, that's beyond what I want to really do.
I mean, that's not my thing.
I'm happy to document things and share them with others so that they can decide what they are.
But the fact is that they have appeared in the same location years afterwards, and I have documented them.
And they've also appeared worldwide.
I mean, this, you know, it's very important to note that this is not just happening in Arizona and not just happening near the Australia Mountains.
This is happening worldwide, especially here in Arizona, I have to say.
There are many, many sightings.
In fact, the day before, I don't know if you know this, and I found this out, I think, after we spoke, the day before the mass sighting on March the 12th, there was another mass sighting over the Navajo Nation.
And two rangers, Navajo rangers who have become very close friends with me, and we speak now, and I invite them to our annual sold-out event at the Scottsdale Hark and Shea Theater.
The audience just loves hearing their stories because the native cultures, the indigenous cultures, and I didn't know this until I started looking into it worldwide are very open to these phenomena as being otherworldly, as our governor would call them.
And he was a witness as well.
And I'll get to that story.
But they had a sighting the day before, and they're very open, and they see these things all the time.
Not only do they see the same phenomena as March 13th, 1997, but they see these massive rod-shaped craft.
And on the photo page, you'll see the last two pictures I took were of sunsets with these rod-shaped craft in both pictures taken a month before.
And the orbs and so forth, or craft, come out from these rod-shaped craft, not only over the Navajo Nation, but also above the Superstition Mountains here.
So anyway, the day before, these orbs were going around in these huge circles, first clockwise, and then they would go counterclockwise.
And the whole town brought out their lawn chairs to watch them.
I mean, it's just, and they thought it would be big news.
But then, of course, the mass sighting the next day eclipsed their report.
Now, not only that, but I also found out that a month before in February of 1997, the same exact phenomenon, and I didn't realize it until the GAP program was finished, the geospatial animation project program was finished, and the illustrations of the different craft were put on our website.
Suddenly, I realized that a couple of them, and they're very different, were exactly what the mass sighting was seen over St. Petersburg, Russia.
Two civilians got video that are exactly the same phenomena.
One of them was actually on our prior cover of our latest edition of the Phoenix Lights Beyond Top Secret DVD, which had, it was like a V-shaped craft that each light was actually made up of three lights.
And not only was that in the study we had of thousands of people in the GAP report, but also a video that someone took over St. Petersburg, Russia was the same exact phenomena.
Plus, there's another one that looks like three endpoints of a triangle with a light in the center, which also people saw here in Arizona on March 13th, was taken on video in St. Petersburg, Russia two months before the mass, a month before the mass sighting on February 19th, 1997, and also reported by air traffic controllers over their tarmac, just as it was here in Arizona on March 13th.
This is fascinating, isn't it?
Because if we think, and I know you say you're not a UFO person or all the rest of it, but fate and circumstance kind of made you one.
If we think about the panoply of stories over the years, a lot of them get embellished and retold many, many times.
But from what you're telling me, new information, even now, and it's eight years since our last conversation, it's two decades since the actual things themselves occurred, new information is still coming out.
Absolutely.
And that's why I keep the book and the documentary keep evolving.
They're now both in their third edition because new information does keep coming out.
And actually, just last year, not only was there a new witness from Prescott, Arizona, who described a boomerang.
This was actually the 10th.
We had nine that were named in the study.
And then this 10th, a boomerang, which people did see lights in a boomerang, but this particular gentleman and his family saw a craft that covered Prescott Valley.
And what was really interesting is he didn't want to be on the TV news.
He wanted to stay anonymous.
So I had to find somebody else locally that was also a witness who had come forward with her family to describe the sighting over Camelback Mountain.
And coincidentally, she saw the boomerang too, which was really interesting.
When we interviewed her, we realized that what she and her family had seen come over Camelback Mountain was the same thing that he had seen over, and that was never described before.
So it wasn't like he saw it and made it up.
First, we interviewed him, and then we actually interviewed her for the TV news and discovered that she had seen the same phenomena that traveled from northern Arizona down towards Phoenix and over Phoenix.
And that's the one thing that you seek, isn't it, as an investigator, corroboration, but it's the one thing that's the hardest to get in this entire field.
Thousands of people described the same thing, and it might have been a little different, but then there were, like I said, two or more people had to see the same craft to even be in the study.
Also, what came out last year, which was also interesting, is that now that technology has come so far, we had a wonderful fella who actually took the boomerang video.
And I'll get to this in a second as far as the investigation goes, if I may.
But he took the boomerang video, which is really the only one that has been plastered as being flares, okay?
Mine, again, was verified by not only Navy optical physicists, but also the air traffic controllers as being authentic true unknowns, my video.
But the boomerang video, which was taken after 10 o'clock, mine was before 10 o'clock, has been under fire for being flares, even though it is so impressive.
Anybody that looks at it, I mean, those lights are rock solid in that giant boomerang.
But nonetheless, this fella took his software and shows unequivocally that these lights do not move.
And that's really important because the only explanation, and this was months later, I mean, keep in mind that this, I mean, these phenomena went right over people's heads, rooftop level.
Talk about, you know, even just a public safety issue were not addressed at all by the military or government.
They blew it off for months until, and this is important data too that most public, I mean, even experts don't know this, okay, that are in the field, unless they look at my data.
It was months, it was until June 18th, 1997, when a front page USA Today article brought our mass sighting into international scrutiny.
We were deluged by media.
Overnight, it went viral and we didn't have social media then.
But they too, I mean, once they started talking to the witnesses from all over the world, their descriptions were so detailed and so heartfelt that they too were asking, why isn't there an investigation?
Why isn't there an explanation?
And interestingly, the very next morning, this is June 19th.
Now, listen to how this plays out.
Our former governor Fife Symington called an unscheduled press conference that afternoon to divulge the culprit, quote unquote, of the lights over Phoenix.
And people took it seriously, the media and the witnesses and the public.
And here he comes marching out, one of his aides, in a giant alien head costume and made mockery, made a mockery of it, which was really disconcerting, Howard, not only for the witnesses themselves, but certainly witnesses that were parents that were with their children who saw this thing right over them that looked like a giant, like three malls, and yet they're making a joke out of it.
Well, that kind of put a lid on it.
And for about a month, and I did my homework.
If you look, if you read my book, The Phoenix Lights, A Skeptic's Discovery That We Are Not Alone, I really wanted to know what was going on, a logical explanation.
I called every military base here and talked to higher-ups at these military bases.
And they, at the time, the month after this, were very curious about what these things are, just like we were.
As far as you were told, had they been given any guidance, let's put it that way, on what they should say.
They either blew it off or the ones that I talked to were forthcoming, actually, initially here, that they were just as curious.
And one of them said, the only one that knows who did this was God and whoever did this.
I mean, that was his quote.
Okay.
Well, a month later, and this is really interesting data on July the 24th, okay, and I know it was July the 24th because it was my sister-in-law's birthday that day.
And I'll tell you what she said when I called her to wish her a happy birthday.
I get a call from one of the heads of the Air National Guard, Luke, the Air National Guard here in Arizona, PR department, saying, oh, Dr. Lynn, I think we know what those lights were back in March.
Now, again, I was very open.
I mean, if it was military, shame on them for not, you know, divulging what they were doing and being right over people's heads.
But nonetheless, I was open to any explanation.
And she said, do you believe that in all these months, and it was big fodder here, okay?
So in all these months, nobody ever looked at the log for visiting Air National Guard and the Maryland Air National Guard was in town sending off flares in Operation Snowbird, which I later found out in military terms means diversionary tactical maneuvers.
So, you know, I have no doubt they might have been sending off flares to divert people's attention away from the true unknown.
It kind of sounds that could be interpreted that way, couldn't it?
You know, if you've got something big happening and you want to try and take the heat off it, then maybe you put a smokescreen up there.
Exactly.
And they knew, okay, they knew because they tried to intercept it earlier that something really tremendous was going on and important and they had to do something.
But wait a minute.
So she said, that must be what some people saw.
That was her exact quote.
And I said, well, wait a minute.
I said, did any were the Maryland Air National Guard?
When was the Maryland Air National Guard in town?
And she said, March 1st to the 15th.
So I said, well, were they in town in January?
She said, oh, no.
I said, are you sure?
She said, absolutely not.
I said, well, I have 35 millimeter photographs that prove that the same phenomena appeared in the same location two months before the mass sighting confirmed by air traffic controllers at Sky Harbor International Airport as appearing over Class B restricted airspace, a thousand feet altitude.
And she says, you never told me that.
And she said, I said, well, she says, I have a call coming in.
I'll have to get back to you.
The next morning, the big headline in the paper here locally was Phoenix Lights Are Flares.
Now, I have to tell you, Howard, I mean, talk about disconcerting.
I mean, not only did thousands of people know that they were in flares, they saw actual craft.
But after that time, and that's the only explanation, by the way, that they ever came forward with.
They never addressed the craft in 21 years.
But after that time, it was like, okay, if it was military, do it again.
Show us what you did.
And there was only one person, I mentioned her name previously, Councilwoman Frances Barwood, who was getting so many calls from her constituents asking why wasn't there an investigation that in May, she asked at a council meeting that, you know, why aren't we investigating this?
And she was shut up immediately by the people there and said, we don't discuss that.
And also, they called it a UFO and nobody had said it was a UFO.
I mean, why did they come up with that?
Okay.
And also, the media plastered her.
Anyone that came out at that time, and that's why I stayed anonymous for seven years, one of the main reasons, was absolutely discredited.
I mean, they really tried to discredit her for just asking innocently.
She didn't see it.
And what's her take on it now?
Presumably, you're still in touch.
Wait a minute.
Wait a minute.
So three years later, good story.
Thank you for asking.
Three years later, she was running for Secretary of State on a platform to get answers for the Phoenix lights.
By that time, over a thousand people had contacted her.
And she was also asking for a re-enactment of the Phoenix lights.
If it was military, fine, reenacted.
And so were a number of us, okay?
And right before the third anniversary of the mass sighting on March 7th, we get this big announcement, public announcement, that three Air National Guards, and they were talking about it on the radio and whatever, three Air National Guards, I believe it was New York, Michigan, and California, were coming into town to show everybody the Phoenix lights.
Now, whether they thought that it would put a lid on it or confuse the issue or we forgot what we had seen, whatever, it was a joke.
And if you look on the news page, and there's lots of material there, there's so much to explore and consider on the website, the Phoenix Lights Network website.
But if you go to the news page and you scroll down to the box there that says AZ Family is a CNN affiliate that shows exactly what they tried to do.
They tried to make a triangle.
It was upside down.
It fell apart immediately.
And that's what flares do.
Flares cannot keep a formation like the phenomenon did for hours throughout the entire time.
I mean, I was going to say that if you shoot something up there, I mean, we have fireworks here, pretty limp ones compared with military-style flares.
But, you know, we have them here every November the 5th to celebrate Guy Fawkes' night over here.
And once you fire them up, you can't control them.
Exactly.
Exactly.
Not only that, but they're on a parachute and they float with the wind.
I mean, they're haphazard in seconds, if not minutes, and fall to the ground.
No one, no one that saw the true unknowns described that phenomenon.
So this so-called explanation was deeply disingenuous.
Well, they have huge smoke trails too, flares, and nobody saw that either.
So obviously they wanted to put something out there, which I have to say, Howard, I mean, most people are looking like myself for a logical explanation.
And those that did not see it, many people fed into this explanation.
I mean, this fake news, as we would call it today.
And to this day, there's still people out there that profess that the Phoenix sites was just flares.
I mean, it's laughable that they would say that if they actually looked at the data.
And that's why I came forward after seven years of anonymity.
I took my 750-page journal of such compelling data.
I had no idea that these phenomena have been documented since human documentation began.
And not only Sumerian writings and India writings and so forth, but and etched on primitive writings in Peru and so forth when there were long extinct animals.
I'm sorry to interrupt with this question, but it's important.
And, you know, it occurred to me a few minutes ago, but I want to get it in now.
The governor who effectively made light of this thing, did you ever try to contact him?
Oh, that is a very good question because after I came forward, because I condensed the best, the most credible data, because this is happening worldwide and other countries are much more open to it, including UK, by the way, and Belgium.
I mean, they are the model.
They got together when they had their sightings in the 90s with the military and civilians and universities.
Oh, there have been some spectacular sightings of huge aerial phenomena around Belgium.
Sorry, I interrupted you again.
No, no, absolutely.
This has been happening for, you know, documented for decades here, and where we have pictures and documentation and so forth.
And other countries are much more open to these as being otherworldly.
But what's really interesting is that I came forward in 2004.
I condensed the best of what I had in that 750-page journal from witness reports and media reports and history and how it affected people at a very deep level, which I would love to get into and the connection between all unexplained phenomena that I found while I was researching.
But anyway, to 250 pages of the best of what I found.
And once I came forward and then actually was inundated, I went back to work at the Arizona Heart Institute as their chief clinical consultant of the Wellness and Imaging Center while I was paring down the book.
And I had pushed my whole medical career aside for four years.
But at any rate, once I came forward, I was inundated by requests to do a film, a documentary, which I had no time to do.
But one of the filmmakers had gone to the Brooks Institute of Photography, had graduated from there, and they were one of the people who analyzed my data.
And he has parents that live here.
And he said, I'm coming with my camera, and we're going to start filming.
Well, I said, wait a minute.
I said, not only don't I have time, but I stayed anonymous for seven years.
I don't know if people will come forward.
Actually, professors that I worked with at the head of the optical science department at the University of Arizona and so forth could lose their grants if they even mentioned the word UFO.
And every single person I asked said that they would do it.
And we started filming.
And I just had to choose one thing or the other.
And I chose to continue with the documentary, which we've done very proud, dozen International Film Festival Awards, which is unheard of.
So presumably you put in a request to interview the governor.
What did the governor say?
To answer your question, so once I had the book in my hand, and I have to say that people really respected the work that I did, which it was very heartening because I was very scared to come forward.
It was very precarious, especially for a medical doctor.
And yet the people that read it, and I knew who read it and didn't read it, really appreciated the work.
And with the documentary that won a dozen International Film Festival Awards, he, once he came forward, 10 years after the mass sighting, he came forward for whatever reason, and maybe he saw that, you know, the success of the work that I had done, and that by that time, the ridicule and snickering and laughability, especially here in Arizona, which is a model for what should happen in the media, they take it seriously.
I had worked with NBC here in the early 80s.
This is a little important side note with doing my health reporting with people that were just getting started then.
And by the time I came forward in 2004, the person that Village Labs called Dr. X, who had the video and pictures, which they called me, I came forward.
They said, you're Dr. X. Well, now they were the head of the production at Fox and the head of the news department at CBS.
They opened their arms and have been so kind and so credible.
They take these sightings seriously.
And anyway, he might have seen this.
And after the 10th anniversary, he came forward to say that he actually saw, he bravely came forward because no other elected official did this ever.
Came forward to say that he saw one of these mile-wide craft.
This is former Governor Feist Dymington.
And that, in his own opinion, as a pilot, a military-awarded pilot, felt that it was otherworldly, and it definitely was not flair.
Well, I mean, he, you know, as you mentioned at the beginning, said people were in panic.
No one, and I really emphasize this, no one that saw the mass sighting was in panic.
So he was trying to do his civic duty then by calming the populace.
Wait, what was in panic is after the USA Today article and we were deluged by media from all over the world and it got out there globally, the military and the government, I am assured, were in panic because they didn't know what to do.
And the only hard evidence, and it's great that you've brought this up, the only hard evidence that they could debunk, because they could blow off people's reports and testimony as they didn't know what they were seeing.
It was a mirage, it was swamp gas, whatever, but they could not blow off the handful of videos that showed quite clearly.
And if you look at the videos, mine again is the three endpoints of a giant rock solid and equidistant formation over Class B restricted airspace.
There was also an arrowhead, and this is a little interesting story because there were other people that were seeing these phenomena and photographing them as I was for days before, including Steve Blonder, who called MUFON, Mutual UFO Network, up to his balcony the night of March 13th.
And they were standing there talking about the earlier lights that he was seeing, as I was, by the way.
And suddenly, a giant formation, an arrowhead of five lights.
His video is tremendous because those lights are attached to something or have a force field in between.
All you have to do, and I've said this so many times, is look at the data.
It speaks for itself.
And the pictures that other people have taken, like this guy, obviously, if it was such a huge thing hanging there, maybe connected in some way, then you would be seeing it from slightly different perspectives, wouldn't you, if you were reasonably close to it?
Yes, and that's interesting.
Boy, you come up with great questions.
Because that is an excellent point because interestingly, and maybe this is another coincidence, because there are other coincidences I'll get into in a second.
The four of us that took video that evening, two of us before 10 o'clock, and there were two boomerangs.
Mine and the arrowhead were before 10 o'clock.
The two boomerang Videos were after 10 o'clock were from different locations, north, south, east, and west.
That's very interesting.
That's an interesting point, I have to tell you.
And to this day, you know, they still remain unexplained.
Okay, we're looking back on eight years and we're coming to the back end of this conversation.
And boy, you cram a lot of information into conversations, Lynn.
I remember this from last time.
This is great.
What do you think is the most important thing that has come out then since our last conversation?
Well, not only that the data speaks for itself, and I hope that people will look on the website.
It's free and there's tons.
I mean, we're talking, you know, I really try to put something out there from my heart and from my expertise and from my own pocket that people could look at and learn and grow if they choose.
It is a choice.
Everybody comes from a different background, different upbringing, different belief systems.
Some people can't deal with this phenomenon.
Some people don't want to deal with this topic.
And that's okay.
That's okay.
Everyone in their own time.
But now we have the website.
We have the book, The Phoenix Lights, The Skeptics Discovery That We Are Not Alone in its third edition.
And by the way, not only have I added chapters and a new chapter with new data.
And I mean, come on, we're now discovering that there's habitable planets out there and the ingredients of life are out there and we're made of stardust and et cetera, et cetera.
And I address all that, but also I share a picture.
And by the way, in the last edition, just to get back to the 95 sighting for one minute, my pictures were analyzed by Navy optical physicist Dr. Bruce McAbee, very well respected in the field, who presented the case, my case, in 1999 at the MUFON International Symposium in Washington,
D.C. He analyzed my closed sighting pictures in 95, and there were more that came forward as we analyzed the strips of 35 millimeter and concluded from the data that it wasn't just minutes that my husband and I experienced, which we thought we experienced in 95, but hours in between my first picture and last picture.
The data speaks for itself.
Right.
So one of two things was happening.
It's either that effect you get when you're on Facebook and you're looking at different videos and postings and then hours go by, or you really did have some time compression.
Well, according to the photographs, and I welcome people to either read it in my book or there is a link on the website to his 21-page report that in his conclusion, it's the first, and as far as we know, the only photographic, authenticated photographic evidence of missing time.
Now, that's number one.
Number two, and something I just wanted to get out because I do address it.
Half the book is about this, is not only how it affected people at a very deep level, real-time and long-term, and flares and balloons and helicopters and so forth don't do that, okay?
But there were a number of people, witnesses to the Phoenix Lights mass sighting that I talked to who had near-death experiences as children that was reawakened by the mass sighting.
And interestingly enough, call it a little coincidence, I did too.
And that really took me aback because I thought, whoa, could there be a connection between all unexplained phenomena, whether it's near-death experience, out-of-body experience, unexplained aerial phenomena that have a mystical light associated with the experience?
And lo and behold, when I started looking, I started finding such credible data.
I call all unexplained phenomena an up, UP, unexplained phenomena an up, because they are an up.
Not only the experience, and I lay out very simply in the book, is very similar, no matter what the experience is, but the after effect is very positive.
It is an up.
And by the way, let me just interject this because you had asked what else is happening.
And I just finished, because I've been working on a curriculum for, that's my passion for you young people, and just finished a graphic novel activities coloring book called The Phoenix Lates, UFOs and Crop Circles Coloring Book, Graphic Novel Adventures of Sue F.O., Field Observer, and Hugh F.O., he's a little alien.
And it's 21 years of my data and the history and 80 crop circles and activities for all ages.
And I hope people will recognize that.
Which brings me to this that I want you to respond to because, you know, the people who emailed eight years ago will email now.
And what they said, some of them, the ones who weren't completely enthralled by what you said, and there were many of them, including myself, but some people were saying she's got so much that she is selling.
The incentive for you, those people may say, in all of this, is that you can keep marketing stuff.
Yeah.
Well, you know what?
First of all, I stayed anonymous for seven years, pushed my medical career, accomplished medical career aside.
You're welcome to look at my bio.
And not only that, but I have given up hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars, giving up my medical career for 21 years, okay, and pushing that aside to help raise awareness, get the information out there.
I am in such debt from this.
I will never, ever recoup this.
I mean, in my lifetime.
And that's not important.
All right.
So you're not doing it for the money.
That's very clear.
Well, that's very clear.
This is a big, big question, okay?
This question is as big as some of those phenomena.
Why do you think the, I mean, look, there's a quote here from Peter Davenport.
I hope I wrote it down properly when I watched a video of his.
These were dramatic events quashed by the government, I think was what he said.
Peter, forgive me if I got that wrong and didn't write it down right, but that's what it sounded like to me.
Why would anybody, a government, a military organization, a media outlet, want to suppress something that may be as big as you are implying?
What would be the motivation to stop it and quash it?
Okay.
And I do hope people read the book because, and it's only $9.99 on the e-book, which has colored pictures.
We have to say you are very good at selling stuff.
And it's on the website, which is free.
And if anybody wants to watch a documentary, I should let your audience know that it is also free if they have Amazon Prime.
They can watch the documentary for free, and it's also available at libraries for free.
So let me clear that one up.
As far as the military and government, I have to say That I don't go there.
They have a job to do.
Now there's national security involved.
I don't know what their reasoning is.
There's many rumors out there.
My work is at a grassroots level.
But you don't have so much, you're not so much in awe and respect of them that you haven't wanted to put this out.
What do you mean?
What I'm saying is that you say they have their field and they must be doing it for, you know, for some reason that only they have, and of course they act in our interest.
But nevertheless, you still wanted to make this public, even bearing in mind you're not going to address that issue with them head on.
I mean, it's very precarious to come forward because there's obviously people out there, especially in the United States, that don't want this information out there.
I have found that out when we put something new out there right away.
They call them bots or whatever, where we're getting five-star reviews over and over and over in dozens and dozens and dozens.
And all of a sudden there's a campaign to give one star review, which is like absurd after winning over a dozen International Film Festival Awards and all that.
No idea what you're saying.
Do you know anybody who's personally been shut up, been encouraged not to talk about what they experienced?
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
And there's rumors out there by other people that the military and government, and just look at the actually in the bonus features of our documentary, which are excellent, we talk about the coincidences that happened that day, including the fact that a satellite went dead that's supposed to detect incoming missiles, as well as, and that was built out in Chandler, Arizona, and they told us personally that it went dead.
Number two, there was an article in the America, Scientific America in July of 1997.
Didn't talk about the Phoenix lights, but strange gamma rays, several pages about strange gamma rays that came into our atmosphere on March 13th, 1997.
If you remember, then President Clinton was rushed out of Greg Norman.
He's a golfer in Florida's house, supposedly to an undisclosed location because of what was going on in Arizona.
And also, and this is speculation to me, but I'll put it out there because this was told to me by experts in the field, that we went to Descon 3.
So that's number one is the coincidences we talk about in the- That wasn't us.
What?
You said there was a satellite outage.
There was a satellite.
There was a satellite that was built in Chandler, Arizona.
Yeah, and you spoke to the makers of that satellite.
Did they tell you that nothing had been designed into that satellite is what I'm trying to say.
Yeah, I didn't speak to them personally, but they did alert village labs that personally, that it went dead that night and it's supposed to detect incoming missiles.
Now, that aside, in our bonus features, we also have astronaut Dr. Edgar Mitchell, may he rest in peace, who is in the documentary and makes very poignant statements there.
But we don't address the cover-up, but he does in the bonus features.
So I welcome that people look at that because he says very clearly, and he's an insider, that there has been a cover-up of these sightings and that they're very real and that we do have visitations here from more people.
More people believe that is the case.
Dr. Lynn, it's been a breathless hour and four minutes or so, five minutes now.
Thank you very much.
I have a feeling we'll need to talk again because it seems to me that it's like those old news tickers.
Information seems to be coming into you all the time.
So we'll need to talk again.
You've mentioned it quite a number of times, but please, the website where people can discover you.
Well, I look forward to more as the story unfolds.
And thank you for letting me share what I have today.
I really appreciate it.
And I hope your audience does as well.
But if people would go to www.thephoxlights.net, Phoenix Lights Network website and Facebook page, I update things constantly on my Facebook page, Phoenix Lights Network.
And there's links there to all the website, as well as the different things we offer for people to learn more if they choose to do that.
Many of them are free, as well as other data that is forthcoming.
The news page is really informative, as well as a photo page, the GAP page, GAP.
You've sold it.
You've sold it.
And a share page.
And a share page.
We love to hear from people.
I've had seen.
Okay.
Lynn, thank you so much for that.
And let's not leave it eight years next time, hey?
This sounds great.
And keep looking up.
I will.
What is it?
Keep your feet on.
What did Casey Kasem used to say?
Keep your feet on the ground and keep reaching for the stars.
I will.
Thank you, Lynn.
Dr. Lynn Kitai, reminding us that the Phoenix Lights set of incidents that still have yet to have an adequate explanation, I wonder if that will ever happen, occurred more than 20 years ago.
And I remember Art Bell talking about this as clear in my head as if it was yesterday.
But what a remarkable story.
And as Dr. Lin told us, there are constant updates and new accounts and people coming forward all the time, which in this particular field, which was my reason for doing the show, is a little unusual.
You know, like I said, people tend to embellish or rewrite or revisit existing accounts.
New material doesn't often occur.
And Lynn tells us that that is the case, which is why she keeps updating her productions.
So, Lynn Kitai was our guest on this edition of The Unexplained.
Let me know what you thought about her.
Go to my website, theunexplained.tv, designed by Adam from Creative Hotspot in Liverpool.
Thank you, Adam.
And send me an email from there.
And if you'd like to make a donation to the show, please do.
It would be gratefully received.
Until next, we meet here on The Unexplained.
My name is Howard Hughes.
I am in London, and this has been The Unexplained.
Please stay safe.
Please stay calm.
And above all, please stay in touch.
Thank you very much.
Take care.
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