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Dec. 13, 2017 - The Unexplained - Howard Hughes
01:02:10
Edition 324 - Larry Warren

Larry Warren - who says he is the "Rendlesham Whistleblower" answers your questions andtalks about his polygraph test...

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Across the UK, across continental North America, and around the world on the internet, by webcast and by podcast, my name is Howard Hughes, and this is The Return of the Unexplained.
Well, I hope you've enjoyed the last few shows here.
Thank you very much for your emails.
Please keep them coming.
Tell me when you email me through the website, theunexplained.tv, designed by Adam at Creative Hotspot in Liverpool.
Please tell me when you email who you are, where you are, and the way that you use this show.
I love to hear your stories.
And I will catch up with your emails in a future edition of this show.
I'll be addressing some of your points and also doing shout-outs as well as we come up to the end of the year.
On this edition of the show, we have somebody who is possibly the most controversial man in the entire unexplained world at the moment.
That's a big statement.
I mean, you might be wanting to challenge that, but his name is Larry Warren.
Now, Larry Warren is a name that may not be unfamiliar to you.
He's been back in the newspapers over the last few days here in the UK.
Larry Warren is an American living in Liverpool, UK, who says that he was in the US military, stationed close to Rendlesham Forest, when the events at the end of December 1980 happened, three nights of bizarre happenings that have been described by many as a contact experience.
A lot has been written about what happened at Rendlesham Forest.
The man who was effectively in charge there, the Deputy Base Commander Colonel Holt, we had him on this show.
He has his views of all of this, and we did do quite a long piece with him.
Look back in the archive of this show.
You'll find him there.
You'll find other programs we've done, too, about Rendlesham Forest, and we've spoken to Larry Warren before.
A lot of people disagree with Larry.
A lot of people question the veracity of the points that he makes.
And a lot of people support him.
Well, recently he made the UK newspapers, and I'm talking about within the last week, because he says that he's had a professional polygraph test, a lie detector test done, that will finally prove that every word that he said is correct and will back up every word of his story.
So I wanted to talk with him about that, and I'm going to put to him some of the questions for him that you emailed to me.
Thank you for them.
And also put to him a question from the veteran ex-MOD investigator Nick Pope.
So it should be an interesting show here.
Larry Warren, on this edition of The Unexplained, please let me have your thoughts about this.
You can always email me.
You know, I like to hear your views.
Go to the website theunexplained.tv and you can send me an email from there.
Like I say, I know this is a controversial subject, but we don't shy away from controversy here.
And we try, as always, to be fair and balanced about the things that we do.
And yes, I know that was the slogan of Fox News, but we try to be fair and balanced about our approach to the subjects that we cover.
We try and do it journalistically.
So, get ready for this.
Larry Warren, this is the conversation that I had with him a couple of nights ago.
There is one word, and a lot of this I was not aware of, right, until quite recently, but there is one word that keeps coming up on internet searches I do about you these days, and the word is controversial.
Suddenly you have found yourself, all right, the whole Rendlesham Forest thing is mired in controversy because, you know, some people say it didn't happen, or if something happened, it was something perfectly explainable, and other people say, you've got to be kidding about that.
But the word that revolves around you at the moment is controversial.
I'm not going to get involved in any of the mudslinging that's taken place here, because I think that's all pointless.
I'm just going to ask you...
Well, I'm going to ask you how you feel about being a controversial man, because that is what you become.
What does that feel like?
Well, I'm just a guy, you know, Howard.
You've met me in real life when you lived in Liverpool, and we've done programs together in the past.
And, you know, the only difference with me is I stood up for something that happened to me and others.
And a lot of people don't have that ability.
But now with the advent of the internet, you have, you know, Howard, the problem that you see often with children, and a lot of the kids commit suicide, which as a parent, I find abhorrent.
But these internet bullies, trolls, kind of thing.
Unfortunately, that same mentality is embodied in certain adults in the world.
And the internet has now become their, well, it's a lifesaver for them because now they have a voice.
And you can just type up anything you want on the internet.
Unfortunately, ufology is, I mean, now I read people believe the earth is flat again.
You know, I thought that was big in the 1400s.
No, I keep hearing from those people, and we'll eventually get around to talking to some of them.
But the point of the thing, Now that's controversy.
Well, yeah, it is.
But, you know, we like a certain amount of controversy here.
But it is a difficult position.
It's not controversial.
Anyone that says they saw a UFO, I mean, I'm not the only one that went through the Rendlesham thing.
They all saw things.
Other people have now changed their stories because they're getting bullied by people and they're saying, well, I don't want to go through what this guy goes through.
Well, I went through two years of nonsense with these people.
And I even had to take legal action with some.
I'm not going to name the names.
They've contributed nothing to the subject ever.
I can go down a list of what I've contributed.
But when it brings you, Larry, when it brings you so much heartache, it's the modern world.
But when it brings you so much heartache, which if it was me, I would seriously consider just not being involved in it anymore because I would tend to think, well, it's just not worth it.
I mean, you are going to stand there saying, I am telling the truth from now till kingdom come and there will be people who will throw brick bats at you.
There comes a point where, don't you have to say, enough of this already?
I just don't want to have this anymore.
Well, that's well spoken by a probably very well-grounded, sane, very handsome fella on the picture there.
You haven't changed a bit.
You know, the funny thing is, I mean, with anything, if you stand up, particularly, again, we are talking about a UFO incident?
Are we not?
The general public still, you know, maybe a bit more open, but it's all become a big celebrity world in UFology.
And now, with the television and the internet, it's not the message from anybody.
It's just your face is on TV.
That means either pro or con to people.
But that wasn't.
But hadn't you yourself, Larry, become one of the celebrities?
Hadn't you yourself become one of the celebrities?
You were doing interviews.
You did one with me.
I've done hundreds and hundreds.
I've done 70 TV shows in 35 years.
But what that was about was certainly not money.
What it was about, because again, I'm the guy that got the incident out.
And I think some people should, and from the inside out.
So when you, I don't like the word whistleblower because, you know, there's all kinds of them nowadays in different genre.
But I got the thing out from the inside out.
And how that was is documented and it's authentic and how it all happened.
But and then it led to getting the HALT memo released in 83.
And I went public in 82 very much by mistake.
You have to understand, a lot of these people on the internet only surfaced when they got a computer.
They've never been around the subject.
I've been 35 years.
I knew Alan Hynek and all that kind of era of people that are long gone.
How did you get on with Alan Hynek?
Well, he was a nice guy.
I just kept thinking of the, I met him about, I've seen on the internet, I never met him, or I've seen I wasn't even in the Air Force.
Stolen Valor.
I mean, it's just stunning what you go through.
Well, it has been claimed.
I mean, I don't want to get into too many of these claims, but it is important to run a couple past you.
It has been claimed that you faked the signature on your own military documents.
My signature on my documents, that would be my signature.
No, you faked the signature of somebody who was supposed to have signed off on that signature.
Yeah, great.
That's a great question.
That is my shift posting document that the trolls keep throwing around.
And what has now been confirmed is that is the signature of our senior massive sergeant for sure at least Wayne, now deceased, because other people I served with had similar documents signed by him as well.
And there is my handwriting to a degree on there simply because we were all sitting in a room as a new flight.
Steve Longiero, another guy that I served with, he's a real guy out there.
And we were given verbal instruction.
Each of us were on different flights.
And so those were verbal instructions.
It's never been, but the signature, which was countersigned twice, is Lise Wayne.
And it's been proven by Tim Ersig and Ken Kern and others because they had documents similar.
But the trolls will keep regurgitating things.
It's ridiculous.
So all this stuff, you know, take me to court.
They'd be flattened.
I mean, in a minute.
The other thing is my medical record.
Now, you got to understand something, Howard, if I may say something here.
May I say something?
Say it.
Say it and pray.
But what it is here is that I had eye damage.
Well, I had problems with my eyes right after the incident, my incident on the third night.
And that's the night HALT was out there and all, but, you know, 100 yards away, a couple hundred yards away.
And so I had immediately I had eye problems.
So I went to our base clinic.
We didn't have a hospital yet on Bentwaters.
Later, after my time, there was.
And back at that time, I was, I had a go.
And, you know, he said, well, we don't have the ability.
And the guy was Paul Veccles, who was a doctor on the base.
And what he did is referred me for optical, suspected optical retinal burns up to R.E.F.
Lakenheath's hospital.
So he was a MD.
Every document in the Air Force is a controlled document.
But not only is that document, which Colonel Holt, by the way, inspected all my available military record back in 1993 in person.
He had no problem with it at all.
He just was told he had been misinformed.
And so this is just troll action.
But what the trolls don't know is not only does that document, was it sent to me in a control, you see, even on your own base on Bentwaters, that wouldn't just be here.
Come pick up this.
That would be mailed to me on an Inter Air Force Postal Service to my APO post box.
So that was sent to me.
I have that envelope.
They don't have that.
And none of that's my handwriting, by the way.
And then the and but I'm sent on to Lakenheath and then is my travel orders and then the medical workups, what they did up in Lakenheath.
The rest of that is locked up with my records.
I never got a hold of that.
But I was sent to specialists up in Lakenheath.
So I presume if there is a paper trail to all of that, then Larry.
What's that made?
If there is a paper trail to all of that, and I know that you're not using a headset, so it might be harder for you to hear me, but I'm just getting old, Howard.
Well, I know that's very familiar with that feeling.
But if there's a paper trail to all of that, then that tells us something pretty significant, doesn't it?
You're saying there is a definite paper trail to the medical treatment that you had for burns to your eye.
Oh, well, there's the initial document, but what the troll type or the critics or whatever you call them, they don't have the other documents.
And that's the chain of custody and all the documents in the military are controlled.
And you can't just go in and steal a medical record.
What would I know about medical records?
And none of that's my writing.
And Paul Eccles, he wasn't an eye specialist.
That's why I was referred to REF Lakenheath Hospital.
And I hope I'm not getting that wrong.
It's Milton Hall.
One of the two had the hospital.
And that was the only USAF hospital we had at that time.
And I even have the orders to get on the bus, you know, the bus between our base and that base, you know, military bus.
Well, for the benefit of those of us who don't know all of the ins and outs of this, all the minutiae, what sort of treatment did you get and what was the diagnosis?
Did they tell you what they felt had caused your problem?
Well, I had showed flashburns to my retinas of my eyes.
And my eyes were watering profusely.
And I've had floaters in my eyes.
I don't know if you know what that means.
I have them.
Yeah.
Yeah.
it was like, but the funny thing is, when I got to Lake Eneath, I had to stay overnight.
And this was early.
It's all the dates in there.
We have all this.
It's not for the trolls to inspect.
It will all be out there.
And why it wasn't in our book, because, you know, number one, our book came out before the internet.
And it was just never a thought.
I stole the military records that I do own because a lawyer on our base, Colonel Persky, said, you're going to get fireproof because I told him a little about what had been going on.
There was harassment, not just with me, with others.
And I took the, I had to hand carry a whole packet of my documents when I was discharged honorably.
And my re-enlistment code is classified.
It's not, I was thrown out.
And it's not that I never worked.
I have my weapon number on all my documents.
You can't make up these records at all.
And I have all this stuff because luckily enough, brother, I stole, you know, maybe, you know, whatever, but I just grabbed a folder because I think I was kind of encouraged without words by Colonel Persky.
And I'm glad I did, thank God.
But it was never a thought to, and then it turned out that my records aren't possible to get.
One of my big fans out there got to the point where saying I was never in the Air Force.
I only went to basic training in Texas and got kicked out.
Well, I was highly trained to be at REF Bent Waters when I got here because it was a nuclear base.
They didn't send schmucks there, and I had my full PRP on the 15th of December, did two weeks of riding around law enforcement, and then a week into my solid security shift on D-flight, the damn thing happened.
And I didn't get kicked off or lose PRP because I called my mother.
I was put with security police operations.
So I worked between the SP supply end and also with Major Carl Drury in who was.
But you know that there is a view that you were let go because you were seen to be unsuitable.
That's completely untrue.
I was discharged.
In fact, my military.
You see, this works.
It's a view, but show me any of that proof.
These are words.
I can show you the proof to the, in fact, all you got to do was look in my book because you'll see Gordon Williams' letter saying I served honorably.
My discharge says I served honorably.
And I was never kicked out.
In fact, if that's true, you'll see me in a white ascot if you have a copy of the old left at Eastgate.
And that's a special security detail.
I'm armed at it.
And that was being general officer security for the change of command of our wing.
And that was in March of 81.
So if I was so unsuitable, I was doing pretty heavy stuff.
I went over and helped the hostages when they came back from Iran.
We had a TDY from our base go with dog teams.
I wasn't a doghander.
Not bad for a schmuck, huh?
And I was advised to get out and go back into law enforcement.
I just wanted to get off the base because there was a lot of things going on.
So again, that's a lie out there.
Okay.
But are you telling me in this recording now, Larry, are you telling me in this recording now that you have documents, including an envelope you told me about to do with your medical treatment?
Oh, I have more than that.
That have not been released up to now.
So I suppose the question that I should be asking you is, if you have further corroborating documents that you have in your possession, why have you not, especially as you've been under such criticism, released them?
Well, they're not in my possession right now for a lot of reasons, but because things are going on, which I can't go into.
But why didn't release them?
You know, I wrote a pretty book I'm still, I remain proud of, though it's outdated, and I have actually requested that gets withdrawn.
No one else did.
They've tried.
At the end of the day, when Peter Robbins and I did our book, we put the relevant documentation in it.
I'm not satisfied with their photo section to this day, but we wanted to understate it.
And, you know, frankly, I didn't understand most of my records at all until I sat down with Colonel Halt.
I went to see him in Washington in 93.
He didn't come to see.
I went to see him.
And Robbins was there and Bob Exler, another guy.
And he reviewed my records.
He said they're all in order.
He seemed confused because he was told nonsense.
That's 93.
Why they're not out?
I mean, number one, they have to be dealt with, you know, because allegations have been made.
But this is just like what just came out last week.
I mean, people got lots of mud on their faces and it's just going to continue.
Though I'm not in the believe me biz.
I mean, I could go into a courtroom tomorrow and, you know, well, there you go.
And I know that.
But yeah, there's way more.
Every military record is all controlled and there's envelopes and shipping and, you know, and there's, you know, they're saying my handwriting.
They probably say I have a printing press and did my discharge, you know.
But legally, and as a human being, as a citizen of this world, a citizen of the United States, I don't know whether you have British citizenship.
I presume having lived in Liverpool for 25 years, you do.
I've been here about 18 years.
My son has that.
I'm still a U.S. citizen.
So you're a U.S. citizen.
You have some rights.
Can you not demand the release of your full military record because of what you say that you're going through?
And then you can later rest some of the accusations about your military service that have been made.
Well, I'm not interested in interacting with the people that make that slander.
I'll let a judge make the judgment on them down the line.
That's all about money, unfortunately.
Good point.
But if people knew the true history and didn't have agendas to bend and throw out falsehoods on the old internet, the reality is I pursued my military record in 1983 and it was classified.
It's not in St. Louis.
They'll verify.
In fact, one of my trolls actually did me A favor, they did, which ruined her angle, I guess, because it said, and I loved it: we protect the privacy of our veterans.
This is the National Veterans Archives in St. Louis.
They confirm your data service.
I went in the military in 79.
I enlisted in the Air Force, got out in 81, fully honorably.
It says I was served with, I'm honorably discharged.
I was U.S. security specialist at RAF Bentwaters.
They don't go any further.
What is classified in my record that I was not allowed to see in 83, and they said I'd have to bring lawyers to Washington, which, you know, please, in America, you know what lawyer costs.
And because I was trying to go back in, I was told to get out, go back in.
I was young.
I believed what I was told on that base.
And, well, that wasn't the case.
And my re-enlistment code doesn't say unsuitable.
It's classified.
It doesn't mean medical.
It's a 4M.
It has nothing to do with medical.
It has nothing to do with derogatory.
It's not on the books.
And even HALT doesn't know what that meant.
We have every interaction with HALT on audio tape.
There's so much that we didn't put out.
I mean, I wrote it.
Well, again, we come to the point then.
There is so much that we didn't put out.
So much of this can end any problems that you may feel you have.
If you have so much material, let's get it out there.
Well, you know, and a very kind you.
If you sat around and addressed, if you were in the position I'm in with this crazy internet, you have to understand, I walk out my front door and I live in the real world.
You know, I mean, I've been accused of being everything from casinoster to a master internet, what's it called, a photoshopper.
I can barely get on the Facebook and then to a gangster, to a criminal, and my son was taken from me because I'm a bad.
None of that has ever happened.
None of it's true.
I work in a, my job, I'm licensed by the UK government, and I have complete CRB backgrounds every year.
What do you do these days?
When we were in Liverpool together, I don't think I asked you.
In the security industry, but I work in a different end of it.
So I go away occasionally.
All right.
I have done all aspects of it, and that's what I've done here.
You know, unfortunately, in the Northwest, there's not a lot of work here.
I mean, I've done all kinds of things, but that's the industry I've been in for about 12 years.
I tried to leave it.
I thought I got a little too old for it.
But, you know, no one's jumping through hoops trying to hire an almost 60-year-old.
So I went back to the industry.
And it's, but it's not, you know, it's, believe me, you are under the law of the land all the time.
You're dealing with the public and you're dealing with, you know, I've worked with football stars, which doesn't do anything for me, musicians in this country even.
And, you know, it's interesting.
But you got to change the work.
So, you know, but my point is I can leave the door.
I know lots of people in this town for years.
And, you know, people come up and they, you know, because the internet, they go, oh, I see you're on what, blah, blah, blah.
And it doesn't mean anything to anyone.
But 30 years ago, if you mentioned you saw a UFO, that's why I know the trolls have never seen anything.
Because I would wager a good bet on that.
Because real experiencers don't make up things.
I always have this saying, I'm not in the believe me business.
Yeah, no, which you said at the beginning of this.
One of the views that I've read, and you know, I've read and heard many views of you, including people who absolutely support you.
You know, you have your supporters.
You do.
But one of the views is that Larry Warren is a wannabe who went back to the U.S., talked to a few people in the UFO community, and then came back with a story that was a conflation of some other people's stories.
Wow.
Well, actually, Howard, you know, geez, how much time, you know, I called my mother within four hours of my event, and then I wrote her a letter predating Colonel Holt's memo, which is in the possession of Gary Haseltheim, you know, the detective.
I gave it to him as a gift.
My mother has Alzheimer's now, which, but Gary stood with me a long time.
It is a historical record of the events.
And that's basically, in our debriefing, we were basically told what happened the first night, but I thought it had to all happen our night.
I didn't, I was more surprised than anyone when that came out in 83, that there were three nights.
But no, so I, and Gary interviewed my mother's best friend when I called four hours after, and she's very sound of mine, Sue, still.
And that interview you can read floating around on Gary's magazine page.
And when you phoned your mom, I mean, listen, you know, I was very close to my mom and dad, the wonderful Liverpool parents I had.
Whenever anything happened to me, I would phone them.
Sometimes they would know stuff was happening to me, even if I didn't phone them.
I was once on a ship in the Mediterranean, a broadcasting ship, and there was a tidal wave, the only one that there'd been in decades up the Mediterranean.
And I was scared for my life.
And my mother heard me shout to her from that because I thought we were going to sink.
So, you know, the first thing you do if you have a problem is if you have a close relationship is you call your mom.
I did.
Yeah, my mother now could, sadly, I mean, I have an audio I treasure where Bud Hopkins spoke to her on the phone back in 1984.
A lengthy phone interview.
And just, you know, because I've been public since 82.
And but the thing is with my mother, which is interesting, is that, and if you read this interview with Sue Hickerson, who was a very close friend of my mom's, and Gary interviewed her.
It's a great interview.
I laughed a bit knowing Sue because she don't take crap at all.
But she, the funny thing is, when I call my mother, I was with Greg Batram, who's another guy that went through an element of those incidents, from a payphone.
And it was just after Sergeant Pennison told me to shut the F up at the security police table.
So, and Jim actually remembers that and told me that.
And I went to the phone and called, but I got cut off.
So she only heard a little bit of that.
And what did you, for the benefit of our listener here, and for my benefit, how much of it did you get out there?
What did you say to your mom?
Well, I revert.
We had a thing called AutoVon where you could go in a little booth in the club and they would hook you up with the States on a free call.
But me, I was 19 when this happened.
I'm thinking, well, let's be clever and go to the near our chow hall was the old English phone box, right?
And I said, well, let's go in there.
And I reversed the charges.
Oh, my God.
And I think if you mentioned, I did.
And I know, I know.
No wonder my mother was mad.
But I and so it was early.
It was our morning.
It was about nine in the morning, 10.
I was off the shift.
The incidents had just happened to me and Bastins and others.
And so I called her.
And all I remember getting, the operator, and my mother would sit up all night with Sue.
It was a weekend there.
And they would have coffee and smoke, chain smoked cigarettes.
I can remember that.
And I got her on.
I said, Ma, you won't believe this.
A UFO landed near the base.
I saw it.
And I didn't get, and then I'm just noticing that no one's there.
And so I called the operator back and she said, did you call from the base?
And I said, yes.
And she goes, you've been, the call was disconnected at the base.
And I looked at Greg and I remember going, I'm in deep, well, I can't swear on your show, but you know the word.
And I was.
And so I had identified myself as a problem.
All right.
So how much of it did you get out to your mom, though?
Did you get the words, there's a UFO landed on the base?
Well, near, I said near the base.
It was off.
Yeah, she heard all that, but then I was gone.
And then in my letter written a few, which Gary has reprinted and basically what I did is told what they told us in the debriefing because I said, well, at least I'm not saying me.
I'm the guy I know in it.
But I thought that had happened earlier and we were responding to it.
They didn't say two nights ago this happened.
But that says UFO throughout.
And that is the first written record of the incidents.
Not Halt's memo, my letter.
And that's January 7th, 81.
My mother responds to me two days after Halt writes his memo and with a simple sentence.
Well, that's something.
And also, I referenced in my letter the phone call as I was trying to tell you on the phone before we cut off, got cut off.
And my mother's bills are on the back of it.
Like she was a bookkeeper.
So there's all the, you know, it's like the Declaration of Independence.
It's so old.
And there's the envelope and the Frank mark and the U.S. Air Force postal system and all that.
It's totally authentic and there's nothing different.
And I had an afterthought at the post office.
I thought I was going to get caught mailing it.
And I just wrote, I'll tell you all the rest of it when I get home.
I can't in the mail they read it.
I mean, that's how stupid I was at that age to some degree.
I was very young.
When you did get the chance to tell her the story face to face in more detail, what was her reaction?
My mother, it's very odd.
And Sue's interview with Gary has brought that back.
Is that my mother was never, you know, obviously she know it happened to me.
And like she told Bud Hopkins, something happened to that boy and meaning her son.
But my mother would never, I don't think she ever wanted me around that stuff at all because she saw how exploitive certain UFO researchers were even back then, which I could, I'm a city guy.
I saw through it also.
And I don't need anyone, you know, with me as the organ grinder, with me as the dancing monkey.
I've never been good playing that role.
And that's what researchers wanted people to do back then in the early 80s.
They wanted you to be a little chimp, and then they run out, write a book, and they haven't been of any help to you in any way.
I'm not going to get into them.
One of them's deceased now.
And I've seen Halt saying that two original American researchers, I was working on a book with them, but then they kicked me out.
Not true.
I'm in the book they wrote.
Can I ask you this?
Because it's important.
A lot of hard stuff, I think, has been said on both sides, and some of it I've been reading and hearing today.
We don't need to go there.
That's hard on this side.
All this is defending the family's good name.
I understand.
I hear what you're saying.
I'm not getting snippy with you.
No, no.
I totally understand.
I do.
I just want to ask you about your collaborator, erstwhile collaborator, Peter Robbins.
Yeah.
And why there's been this big fallout with him.
Do you feel tempted, and we don't need to go into all of the ins and outs of this, particularly, because there's so much of it online.
Are you not tempted to try and build some bridges with him because life is too short?
Well, you know, you just hit the nail on the head.
Life is too short.
Peter's 71.
I'm going on 57, which I frankly can't believe.
And I knew Peter since he was 30.
I'm not going to slag him off you.
What people, these flying saucer fans and trolls and things, don't realize, Peter and I knew each other's families intimately through deaths, through births, through ups, downs.
Peter and I are as different as you can get.
But Peter, unfortunately, he's had his say on radio, and I'll just say this.
But Peter and I, I first met him in 1983.
Didn't think much about it.
Met him again in 87 when I was speaking for MUFON at the 40th anniversary of UFOs.
And I just said, this guy, you know, I'll do a book.
I had thought of a book for about a year.
I had drafted out some things.
I'm not a trained writer.
Maybe that's apparent if you read my book.
But what I wrote, I did write.
Now, I will say this.
I could never have gotten that book out without Peter Robbins being involved in it and us working together, but nor could he have without me, obviously.
And it was a Horrendous and funny collaboration.
It was expensive, you know, on both parts, particularly mine financially.
But look, it was my thing.
I invited him into it.
But no one held a gun to Peter's head.
And Peter, again, Peter, we know each other.
And in the end of the day, Pete, you know, we had run our course as far as a collaborator.
Peter would come here and stay with us and visit in Liverpool.
And, you know, Peter carried on throughout the States.
But I found I had to correct a lot of things he would misstate, whether it be on purpose.
I don't think it was on purpose, but he would state things as if quoting me, but it wasn't me.
Okay, well, of course, I don't have him on the other line to cover that person.
But again, I hear what you're saying.
I'm never invited on shows when people are slashing my neck either.
Okay, all right.
I'm not yelling at you, brother.
It's been famous.
But I'm not invited to that.
I know it's not.
I'm not invited on these shows, KGRA, all the rest, when I'm slandered, to even have my own say.
That's not broadcasting.
That's not professional.
But to, you know, to boil it down, to boil it down in a professional way, the story goes, and I haven't spoken to him about you.
The story goes that he had his doubts about your credibility.
What Peter did, well, it's impossible.
He wouldn't have written a book.
Peter and I went through a major UFO experience at that base.
I was voice stressed three times.
Peter was there when that happened.
Peter knows the inside out of all the documents I've talked about.
But Peter had custody of all that, but we just never used it, you know, because the general public doesn't know what, frankly, we'd be talking about.
And frankly, I didn't either because I don't know some of the coding on the documents.
We are so different as people, but I'll tell you what.
Here's a positive.
I've never laughed harder with somebody in my life.
I have never had more laughs, truly.
And yet we wanted to kill each other.
Partnerships are like this.
Marriages are like this.
Dean Martin and Jerry Lewis are like.
I was going to say, you know, the great comedy partnerships are like that.
Anything you do in collaboration with someone else, is it important to you to be Numero Uno?
Well, when it comes to my story, I have to be because I am me.
I can't be him.
You know, he's the co-author because he is.
He didn't live the event.
He wasn't in the military, you know.
And he's from the 60s, and he knows what's right and what isn't.
And the question about Peter Robbins, I've got to credit John here for steering me in that direction.
John's one of my emailers.
So, John, thank you for that.
There's a lot of anger.
I'm not going to keep going on at Peter, and I won't do that in my own life either.
There's a lot of good memories I have of him.
I have withdrawn the book.
The publisher's like thinking, oh my God, because certain things have happened that show this all to be lies.
And whether trolls accept it, I don't care.
I don't live for them.
But I'm sad for Peter in a way, but it was not my doing at all.
You know, we live in two different countries, and I wish him well.
And I will never do a project with someone else again.
But, you know, we had a lot of laughs.
That's the one thing that I will always miss from that.
Well, I'm glad we got a positive out of it.
Can I ask you a question that's come to me from Alex?
Because I asked for questions to put to you, and I got some.
So Alex says, Can you ask Larry what shape the objects that you saw were that you observed in 1980?
I don't know whether you can talk about that, whether that's something that you can put into words.
Well, I've been on record with that frustratingly for since the beginning.
In fact, you know, the thing is, this phenomenon, when you really go through it, you see the people that haven't don't understand this, is that you get put into a sci-fi box, so you're trying to make a shape out of something that's undefinable.
So it was a triangular looking thing, but not like a triangle craft.
It was on the ground or above the ground.
I'm not sure.
I've never changed my story.
That's the funny thing.
Others have, but I never have, but that's the popular.
And it's so hard, Alex, to describe these things, but something might be around in your time where it would be a good representation to put it into some visual for some people.
And there was a round ball-like object.
It was an amber-colored thing separate from that phenomena.
And yeah, it's very hard to describe.
I think anyone that sees anything like this.
And, you know, the other thing with Sergeant Gastins, I want to mention, who was right next to me, he has gone on record, not only in our book, from a 1984 interview with Larry Fawcett, who was an acting police lieutenant in Connecticut.
And then another later time in the last eight years, I guess, seven years.
And then I did a radio show with him.
And he went further than anything and with the phenomenon and all.
Not soon after.
I'm not knocking Adrian.
I have a lot of respect.
I know what's happened to him.
Then the bullies got at him.
And all of a sudden he doesn't know who I am.
Now, I'm not knocking him, but this is the kind of heat coming down.
Steve Longero comes out.
I went through the incidents with him also, rode out there with him.
He comes out.
He was very happy the other day, but he comes out and he starts getting slings and arrow.
I mean, he's a veteran of that base.
You know, this isn't just about Halt, John Burroughs, who wants to be the prom king and Jim Penniston.
Though I've had an interaction with Jim recently, and I wish I feel bad for Jim because they go after him.
I wasn't involved in that night one.
I don't know about time travel.
I don't know what they saw.
I wouldn't, and they did see things.
There's no doubt.
I mean, these are real events.
So you take me out of it.
I'm the one that came up with that.
I've said it years ago.
Remove me from it.
You still got events.
But what they've done, and this is how the feds deal with it, yours and ours, is that you divide and conquer.
And now we're all just attacking human beings.
And we're not dealing with the accountability Of the events that took place.
And that's how this stuff works.
That's how they keep it in the box.
Here's another question from Alex, which is a good one.
He asks if you had any contact with somebody called Richard Dodie, former Air Force Office of Special Investigations.
Now, Alex, I will send you a t-shirt if I had one.
He's a winner.
This is a great question.
I like this guy.
He's an educated guy.
A few weeks ago, I won't name the program at all.
It's a radio show.
John Burroughs hosted it with Linda Howe.
And Rick Doty, number one, I have never met Rick Doty in my life.
As early as 1983, I had heard about Rick Doty dealing with Paul Benowitz via documents.
It was a very popular thing.
Rick Doty was an AFOSI, as an Air Force spook, or at least he identifies himself.
I don't think it goes that far with this guy.
A couple weeks later, now 37 years of Rendlesham, he's never been involved.
Thank you, Alex.
You've given me this to clarify this.
And I've written about it, but let me do it here.
Rick went on the, and again, I don't know the man personally.
Rick went on to John's program and they said, what about Larry Warren?
And I'll quote, because I've heard the show, well, I read Larry's statement.
He reviewed all the 150 alleged documents of Rendlesham in 1984, but chose to remain silent till now.
Well, that's odd.
But he read my statement, but they had red flags on it.
And now that's AFOSI.
And when they interviewed me.
Now, here's the facts of the matter, Alex, and I appreciate that.
I'm glad you brought that up.
I forget everything these days.
In reality, and if you've ever read the book I've written or anything I've ever said publicly in 35 years, I guess, is that I never wrote anything.
I was never asked to write a statement.
I just signed some documents as everyone else did on my night.
Like Ed Gabanasak says, we just signed pre-written things weren't allowed to read them.
I was the first to have a say that.
And I was never interviewed by AFOSI at all.
I never interacted with them on this matter at all.
It was a very small unit on our base anyway.
And so those things are fallacious.
They're not true.
So he couldn't have read anything written by me because it never happened.
And nor have I ever claimed.
And the last thing is there's a woman named Heidi Neal in England who's kind of a fixer on internet radio.
She promotes programs and things.
She likes to do that.
Nice gal.
But Rick Doty got in touch with her and I've seen the interaction.
And he said, well, your friend Larry sent me an email, Larry being me, Alex and Howard.
And I sent him an email saying, Mr. Doty, I need to tell you my side of the story.
Now, this only in the last week.
Okay, number one, I'll let you gentlemen, you're smarter than me, just come to your own conclusions.
You've heard the first part of this, how it's not accurate.
Well, here's the second part.
I wouldn't have an email for Richard Doty anyway.
I wouldn't know how to locate him.
He's nobody in my thoughts except ancient history remembering the name.
And lastly, I've asked him via this woman and others too, to kindly let us know what the email, you know, the email address was that sent that message to you.
Because that should be quite easy to get back to us.
I know what my email is, and I never use it because I'm bad on it.
So do you think somebody sent an email on your behalf?
In other words, there was somebody pretending to be you.
Well, Mr. Doty has never responded to her request to just send back what that email address was because that could let us track down to locate where that came from.
But he's never come back.
Mr. Doty, if you're listening to this, I'd be very keen to speak with you.
I might even try and do that at some point if he's doing interviews.
Please.
No, I was never interviewed by AFOSI, so he never could have read anything written by me.
Okay, well, that's clear.
Alex, I put the question and thank you for it.
This is from Nick Pope, our mutual friend, former Ministry of Defense, UFO investigator now living in America.
He would like to know, and I guess you might have assumed this would come up at some point, but especially as you're in Liverpool, especially as I'm from Liverpool, your connection with John Lennon, and in particular that photo of you with John Lennon, do you say that that is genuine?
No, I don't.
You know, the darndest thing is.
Hi, Nick.
Hope you're well.
It's so funny.
I had an old, I have addressed all this.
I do these video responses to all this.
I don't know who sees them, but all of this has been addressed.
And I just sat on it till we did a video response.
My connection to John Lennon is that I did meet him in the 70s.
So you did know John?
I met John.
I know Yoko.
And so is my ex-wife, and so is a lot of people.
Do you still know Yoko?
Yes.
And she's my mother's age.
So she has our book, by the way.
Because John, of course, had his famous UFO sighting in New York.
Yeah, that was 1974 on the east side with May Pang.
So let me just go.
So I have a dress.
The photo was a friend of mine.
I was putting on a, I had an old Facebook that got hacked.
That person had access to my computer, and they hacked it.
So I have a Lawrence Warren Facebook.
That was on the Larry.
And a friend of mine in Dallas mocked it.
You can see the tape on it.
Mocked up a picture and said, don't end up like this guy.
It was a big kind of thing on how you put yourself out there and kooks can get you.
You know what I mean?
So somebody.
What happened to John?
So somebody for fun, a friend, had mocked up that picture.
Well, it wasn't for fun.
And it got out there.
Am I right with that?
Am I getting this wrong?
Well, it wasn't for fun.
It was making a point about anyone in the public eye.
You know, there were unhinged people out there.
And so that was just having fun.
I mean, it was clearly not a thing.
So when people start, then I started on that old Facebook.
When that was up, I started to get people, is that an alien?
I mean, meaning John was the, I'm like, oh my God, this is madness.
Well, anyway, I lost that Facebook, and then That thing started going around, and I saw people getting all crazy about it.
I'm like, what the hell is this?
And so that's been addressed fully.
And so, no, Nick, and you know that because you listen, I did that to you.
I mean, I wasn't aware of this, but from what I hear.
I don't need fake pictures of me and Rockstar.
Okay, well, I am told, and I don't know this because I haven't seen it, that there have been repeated occasions where you've insisted the picture's genuine.
Not so?
What I did, well, Peter added it.
No, not repeated.
People were saying to me, is that real?
I said, well, it's a picture of me and John Lennon, isn't it?
You know, are you there, Howard?
So you've never claimed that that picture was real.
Genuine.
I said it's a picture of me and John Lennon.
Okay.
So it's just like if I cut a picture of myself out and put it next to Jennifer Aniston, I could say that's a picture of me and Jennifer Aniston.
Yeah, but you see, I didn't do it.
I'm not a folk.
I don't know how to do those things.
It was part of an essay about people in public eye getting gunned down.
This person I know in Dallas put this together as kind of a joke, and it was there for a long time.
And then people, when that got hacked, there was a reason I got hacked.
You know, I don't need to put out, I have pictures of me and everybody, but they're real ones.
But yeah, I met John and I went out with May Pang and, you know, and all kinds of things.
And that's my business.
Do you have pictures of yourself with Yoko?
What?
Do you have pictures of yourself with Yoko?
Of course I do, but I'm not going to share them.
Of course I do.
Sure.
Sure.
They're real.
Okay, well, it will be interesting to see.
What does that have to do with Relish and Forest?
I have pictures of me with Robert Plant.
Lots of people.
Lots of stones, everyone.
I was around the business for a long time.
But I still say, you know, they'll use these things.
I don't have time to put up pictures and say, there's me and so-and-so.
I met the guy anyway.
You know, it has nothing to do with anything.
Well, you know, if you did meet him, you won up on me because I always wanted to.
I'd like to meet him in New York.
And I'll never get the chance to do it, sadly.
The nearest I got was to go to Strawberry Fields.
This is another part of the post.
That was the point of the post, Howard, when that picture was put up.
It's a tragedy.
We have the point.
It's the point of things.
Well, thank you for answering that.
And it was addressed before anyway, Nick, and you know it because I did a video for you.
But I hope you and the wife are well.
Good to see you when you come in.
It's a two-part question from Nick, so let's just give you the other part because I want to get into the polygraph, which is why you made the newspapers very recently here in the UK.
You say that you've taken a polygraph test about all of this.
If you did take a polygraph test, no critical or even neutral voices in the UFO community had a say in the questions.
Is that so?
Well, as I explained to you before we went on, Howard, I'm kind of locked down on this.
It's not my choice right now.
But you can say whether there were people who were perhaps skeptical, people who were not necessarily on your side involved in that process.
I don't think that's a state secret.
The people involved in the process knew nothing about Rendlesham Forest at all.
They're not from the UFO field.
They're professionals.
How did the test come to be conducted?
Was it your idea?
Well, that, well, that's a great.
This is now where it's great.
I have to be, I'm not trying to be cagey, Nick, or to anybody, but I'm locked down right now for a few weeks.
That's all I can say.
But what I can say, I, for many years, Howard, and I think Nick won't even agree with this, I've said on numerous radio shows, whatever, I've said we all need to be polygraphed.
I mean, you can't get into our heads, but, and polygraphs are now.
I did not know anything about them.
Polygraphs, it turns out, are not, I'm not talking about the Jeremy Kyle, you know, you go beat your girlfriend up in the pub and then come back and we'll polygraph you.
This is top-level stuff that was conducted.
The interesting thing, I've called for all of us, including myself, in fact, I've always done it, to be polygraphed.
CNN wanted to do it with me back in 85 and the examiner for a follow-up to the UFO thing they did back then.
And the examiner backed out because it dealt with UFOs, right?
And that was how the mentality was then.
People wanted to protect their professions and the subject in general was poison.
Well, all these years later, it's a fascinating thing.
I'm very blessed it happened this way.
Sometimes you can't explain this whole life, is that I met somebody.
I ran into somebody, and that person had a, I'm trying to do this right, who was unrelated to ufology in any way, but knew enough about things, and I mentioned something about it and was able to arrange a polygraph.
And I'm not trying to act like, but I'm just locked down on certain details.
I'd love to come out, but they can't yet, because then it's not me doing it.
Well, you've lived such a life of controversy.
Why didn't you come up with this idea?
Why didn't you have a test like this before now?
Just out of interest.
Well, number one, why didn't I myself?
Well, the first thing would be they cost about £3,000 to do a real one.
I don't have that kicking around.
I know I'm supposed to be a gangster or something with buckets of money, but no, I don't have that.
But I have taken voice stress analysis in the last 10 years, and I passed all of them.
Now, what I didn't know about Polygraph, because frankly, only in the last two years, why did I do it myself?
Why hasn't Colonel Halt done it himself?
Why is he any less controversial than me?
Why not John Burroughs?
He's changed his story.
Why not anyone else run out and do one?
But they are the real ones, the top-level ones, and they are 100%, my friend.
I had no idea.
And they're very daunting to sit.
How much can you tell me about the questions you were asked?
I can see some people right now because I know they're listening, probably blowing steam out their ear.
What I can do, I was, number one, when you do these things, which I'm not acting like I knew about any of this.
In fact, I had no idea what to expect at all.
And I got very zen neutral.
I'm like, okay, well, here I go.
And if I, if I fail this, you know, not only is, you know, the first thing is, is my family, you know, what are they going to say?
That was the first thing, not what UFology says.
I don't much think of UFology anyway, or anything good about it.
But I'm about witnesses.
But there was a lot at stake.
There were friends, people who supported me.
I mean, I'm thinking, oh man, this ain't a game, you know?
And again, these weren't flying saucer people or UFO researchers.
Don't much care what they think.
They're not usually, they all have their little armchairs to deal with.
These are professionals.
I mean, top level.
This will all be apparent.
I'm not making this up.
And you go through a process.
It's not like you just have a test.
You go through quite a, I was so surprised, a very daunting kind of thing where you get relaxed.
You're assessed, you know, in a number of ways with key things.
You're asked, I will say, I can't say that.
God darn it, Howard, why did we do it today?
But anyway, I guess I can sum it up is that there were a number of things asked, and that involve Lorendos and Forest incidents, that involve my character, that like I'm a forger and all this, that involved, listen, I don't have a criminal record at all.
That's the truth.
It's reversal of truth.
But when, and these were questions were put together, not with my knowledge.
The control question, I worked with the person and they said, you happy with that?
See, I didn't know what was going on there, right?
It was a big process.
And I signed off, but I didn't know the other parts that were going to come.
That came out of nowhere.
But long and short of it, I passed.
Now, I will tell you, and remember, I passed the polygraph.
I was warned that more than once that if there was any countermeasures being applied, of course, the examiner knows how to recognize and they would stop all this.
It would have been stopped.
So in other words, if you'd worked out ways to fake it or foil the process, they would know.
Well, you can't beat it actually now.
They are 100%.
They are used by law enforcement in America.
England is still a little bit, well, it's always behind the curve.
Well, of course, they're not admissible in the U.K. Well, they're not admissible in the States either in a court of law for a lot of reasons because they can hang someone real quick.
And that's instead of letting the defense lawyers kind of make their play.
And so they can be very daunting.
But for the law enforcement, they will use them in the States.
I have family that are U.S. Marshals, so I know how they work.
So in fact, I will say that member of my family said in the summer, if you take this, make sure you're not bullshitting because they said at that level, they will, and you can't miss.
Howard, if I can put it this way, if you miss, get one question bad, a bad result on one, and yet you do good on other parts of it, you fail.
There's no percentage of.
It's 100% or nothing.
Why did you say yes to it?
Why did you agree to do it?
Well, I wanted to do it for myself, and I wanted to do it for the people that have stood with me.
And my family have always known.
I have friends that go, yeah, you know, something happened to you.
You can't, I've never like beaten people.
When I first came out of the Air Force, I think my mother, I think the point I was making earlier, never liked to talk about this.
She does not like, didn't like the UFO bunch at all.
And she just didn't like it.
And I think they worried about my safety and all kinds of things.
And, you know, I was kind of wasting my life with it, you know, the way my folks saw it.
But I have to say, my stepmother that passed away this past year, my dad was, my family were always supportive.
I never thought my dad would be, but he was.
And because I didn't think he'd buy anything while I was out of the Air Force.
And he says, oh, that makes sense now.
And my stepmother was always right there, but she passed away, Sally, you know, about six months ago.
But so I wanted to do it.
And also for my son, I wanted to, you see, I can't make you go into my head, but I also wanted to set a standard now that I've done it.
And yes, I have passed it.
And it was a daunting.
I will say one thing here, which was did I think I'd walk in and pass it?
Hell no.
Because when it came to the incident, you're always doubting yourself.
Where was it done, Larry?
Was it done in Liverpool, London, where?
Down your way.
Okay.
Down in the southeast, down in London.
Yeah.
So you now have to wait, I guess, because these results will appear before the public at some point.
Oh, yeah.
And what are you hoping when people get to know the results?
What are you hoping that will do for you?
Well, definitely ain't going to put any money in my pocket.
I think it's kind of ruined a few people's birthday parties, I have to say.
But it also sets the standard.
Now, if you're going to go after me and my family's good name with nonsense, as we've covered some of it here, well, why don't you take a polygraph now?
There's no reason not to.
The water's fine.
Come on in.
So you are inviting people who criticize you to go ahead and make your day effectively.
Well, I'm talking about people that went through the incidents that have been the most disruptive.
And I have to say, I have had massive support.
I think a lot of people have been supportive.
I've always had support.
I'm not some pariah here.
I've always.
I've been around a long.
I've been around way before the internet, Howard.
And I...
Well, there'd be so many mouths we wouldn't be hearing from if there still wasn't.
One last question, Larry.
You seem to be very angry.
And anger's not a good thing because it eats you up inside.
You know, I know this.
There are many people in this world that I could be angry at because of, you know, things that have happened in my career.
And it's just I've come to the conclusion that it just ain't worth it.
So I try and keep myself Reasonably calm, and I don't submit as far as I possibly can to anger, but it does seem to have made you angry.
Well, you know, I'm not a laid-down Sally.
I understand what you're saying, and the older you get, I've mellowed a lot, Howard.
Please, God, I don't want a heart attack here over flying saucers or anything or somebody's opinion with the keyboard.
That'd be the last way to go, right?
But I'm not angry, really.
What I get mad about, you know, people believe in me or not.
I don't care about that.
That comes with the patches, I always say.
You put yourself out there, you're going to get it, especially on a subject like this.
I think a few other guys should get a few arrows, but I always stood up for the other witnesses.
I can't say I've enjoyed the same.
And I can't say I've ever enjoyed much support from the big Whigs in UFology.
Some, yes, but not as a whole, because I don't play their program.
Am I angry?
No, I'm a New York City guy.
I have a way that probably comes out a little more gruff.
That's the 3 billion cigarettes I sadly have done.
But I'm not a nasty, mean guy.
But I stand out for myself.
But more than that, I will fight a lie with truth.
And that's the thing.
If you've got an honest criticism of me, absolutely I'll accept that.
I'll admit that.
I've made mistakes, got some mistakes in the book.
They weren't intentional, but they're certainly there.
But tell me anyone that's written in a book or anything in life where you don't make a mistake or you don't, but it wasn't intentional.
You know, I've never made money from this thing at all.
All right.
So, you know, you're not mad, you're not angry, but you are with the polygraph results you think are going to get even.
No, not at all.
I mean, the main thing is I'm not in that.
I want accountability for all of us that went through the incidents down there.
And that's why I stuck around.
I've never tried to pursue a career at the next UFO conference.
I mean, I go to those things mainly to just hang out with friends, you know, and just see people.
To get up, I mean, you know, it's like, you know, what's his name?
Gary Lewis and the Playboys singing This Diamond Ring 50 years later.
I mean, that's, I mean, where else can you go?
Because actually, I don't change my story.
That gets kind of to do, you know, after, you know, almost 40 years of it.
My role, if ever, was to just put these events out.
It wasn't supposed to be about me, but I am the whistleblower.
So, and, you know, I used to be a wild child, but it's about accountability.
The subject's real.
The events in 1980 happened.
I don't know what they were or where they're from.
And the government knows about it.
And there was abuse of power.
That's all it's about.
It's not about Larry Warren.
Always forthright, always controversial.
Larry Warren there on the Unexplained.
Your thoughts, welcome.
Email me through the website theunexplained.tv.
And I think maybe the only way to finally nail all of this once and for all is maybe to have a big debate.
I don't know whether it would be possible to get all of the principles together in one place or at least linked electronically in a way that's audible and clear.
And have it out, as we say here.
Thrash out a lot of the issues.
See the people.
Maybe that's it.
I don't know whether that's crying for the moon, but I would certainly be interested in being a guy who introduces that at least.
That's just a thought that I'll leave with you.
More great guests as we come up to the end of 2017 and float into 2018 here on The Unexplained.
Thank you very much for all of your support and for being with me every step of the way.
So until next we meet here on The Unexplained, I'm Howard Hughes.
I am in London and please stay safe.
Please stay calm.
And above all, please stay in touch.
Thanks very much.
Take care.
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