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May 10, 2017 - The Unexplained - Howard Hughes
01:18:46
Edition 295 - Captain Randy Cramer & Nick Pope

This time a man who says he's been on secret Mars missions - and the man who worked for theUK's MOD collating UFO reports...

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Across the UK, across continental North America, and around the world, on the internet, by webcast and by podcast, my name is Howard Hughes, and this is the Return of the Unexplained.
Greetings from springtime in London.
As I said those words, a little burst of sunshine came through my window, which is a bit of a rarity these days.
It's been like kind of mini winter for the last two weeks here, but nice to see that things may be moving in the right direction.
But I know some of you don't like me giving weather reports from London, so we won't dwell on that.
Actually, quite a few of you do, but that's a whole other topic.
Thank you for keeping the faith with me.
Two guests from my radio show we're going to catch up with here.
Nick Pope, much requested, the man who used to work for the British Ministry of Defense collating UFO reports and now does lots of cool stuff.
He lives in America, lucky man, now.
So we'll hear from him.
And also, Captain Randy Kramer, somebody who you've been requesting on the show, and it took a little bit of time to get it together, but we've got him on this edition.
Captain Randy Kramer claims that he is part of a secret force that is already exploring and part of Mars.
You'll hear the whole story here.
So just as we are planning, you know, in plain sight for the public, missions to Mars, Captain Randy Kramer says that he is part of missions that have been going there for a long time already, and they involve many different alien species.
Now, it's a story that he tells with complete conviction.
You have wanted to hear him on the show.
I know that some of you will find it tests your credulity somewhat, but he is completely committed to the story, as you will hear on this edition.
But before we do any of that, just to say, if you want to get in touch with me, go to the website, theunexplained.tv, www.theunexplained.tv, which is curated, maintained, and owned by Adam from Creative Hotspot, who does a great job.
There you can make a donation to the show if you can, or send me a message, suggest a guest or whatever.
And when you get in touch, you know what I'm going to say.
Tell me who you are, where you are, and how you use the show.
So I'm going to get through as many emails now as I can.
And then we're going to get first of all to Captain Randy Kramer and then to Nick Pope.
So Michael from League City, Texas says, I download your podcasts and listen to them when I'm up in the woods without internet or cell phone service.
Great way to listen to them, I would say.
And you said that you donated to the show.
Thank you for that.
He said, I enjoy your shows and your interview style.
Graham, in Puebla, Mexico, which I think is the Mexican home of Volkswagen, isn't it?
Because I used to drive a VW Beetle that was made in Puebla in 1998, which I sadly don't have anymore.
Graham says he's 40 miles from Papacatapetl, 10 miles from the Great Pyramid of Cholula, and 15 miles from the town of Atlaxco.
He says, the reason I mention this is because ever since I moved here, 24 years ago, many people say there have been sightings of alien ships at these places.
I've been to all of them, and I haven't seen any sightings.
It's plausible that aliens, if they exist, visit Papa Catapetl and the Great Pyramid.
But Atlaxco, he says, all that town is known for is the meat market, the local ice cream and the garden centers.
Okay, well, maybe they want those things.
Who knows?
Maybe there's a big shortage of ice cream on Alpha Santa Ri.
Who knows?
John from Loveland, Colorado, nice to hear from you again and nice to know that you're enjoying the show.
Jack in Newcastle, Northeast England, enjoyed your interview with Leslie Kane.
I got her book, Surviving Death.
I like Leslie Kane a lot, and I'm going to have her back on the radio show, but she was a big star on this podcast.
You liked her.
Terry in Germany, thank you so much, you say, for all the effort and love you put into your podcast.
I stumbled over them and then got hooked on the spot.
And you get the max from the top guests.
Thank you from Frankfurt.
Terry, Jonathan in Mississauga, Ontario.
I've always loved that name, Mississauga.
I listen online to the CBC from Canada, and I love it when they say some of the great place names in Canada, like Yellowknife and Mississauga.
You know, one of these days I want to come to Canada.
But anyway, let me get to the email.
I recently started listening to your podcast about a week ago.
I've listened to 30 of them.
You've been making my work days better.
You have a professional approach.
And would you talk about the Mandela effect?
We did it on the radio, but I'll try and do somebody else about it here and take that further.
If you can suggest anybody, let me know, Jonathan.
Richard C. Hoagland says Richard Magruder is, quotes, a gullible fool whose contrived tales are accepted by those with little intellect.
Sorry for such negativity, Mr. Hughes, but I do think, do thank you for bringing such a wide variety of viewpoints to the people.
Well, you know, views differ about Richard.
He has a big fan base, but a lot of people who these days criticize him, I guess.
We're going to have to wait and see whether the things that he is saying will come to pass actually do.
And we'll wait for the new book, too, about Mars.
Martin Butcher, good to hear from you.
David Dawson suggesting the haunting of Michael Magee.
This is somebody who's posting videos and contributions online about his haunting.
I've tried to get hold of him and can't.
If you know a way I can, let me know.
Richard, aka Scally, says, love the show and the wide range of guests listening from the Riverland, South Australia, originally from Norwich, UK, and spreading the word.
And I like hearing your weather reports.
Thank you very much for that.
Scally, aka Richard.
Adam in Frondsham, Cheshire, nice to hear from you.
Jeff, thank you very much for this.
You think my shows are and you make a list.
Professional, interesting, insightful, and entertaining.
Well, we do our best and thank you.
Ishmael, this is a great email to end with.
It says, around the 1990s, traveling on London's Victoria Underground line, reading my mathematics book, next stop an elderly gentleman, about six foot tall, dressed as if he'd come from a cricket match, with John Lennon-type spectacles, a brown leather case, sat opposite me and said, you have an interest with mathematics, I said, yes.
And soon enough, it turned out this gentleman was a scientist, graduated at Cambridge and claims he was present at the 1929 experimental confirmation of Einstein's gravitational theory by the British scientist Sir A. Eddington.
His name, Harry Price.
Thought nothing of it aside from a few I told.
Clearly a namesake I have been able, or rather unable, to confirm.
Harry Price, of course, we did a show about him, the great British paranormal investigator, possibly the most famous we ever produced.
And Ishmael says, Thank you for your time.
This Harry Price would have been late 70s or early 80s with a wisp of white hair and was softly spoken.
Could it have been the returning Harry Price?
Who knows?
Look, I believe that many strange things happen in this world, and that is why me, a guy who trained in mainstream news, is doing a show like this.
All right, two guests from the radio show.
First of all, we're going to hear from Captain Randy Kramer.
Then it's going to be Nick Pope talking about his current projects on the go in the United States.
But first, like I said, Captain Randy Kramer.
We are fascinated by the Red Planet.
Mars is a place that we are actively making plans to visit.
There are private companies doing that.
There are plans by NASA and others to explore the Red Planet more and maybe to terraform Mars.
In other words, to turn it into an environment that you could live on, to be able to turn the red dust into something that you grow things on.
It's not science fiction anymore.
And it's all in the pipeline.
It's stuff that we dreamt about when we were kids and now seems to be coming for real.
It's becoming reality.
We're actually, a lot of us going to live to see this.
But there's another perspective on all of this.
What if I told you that there are people who say that we have been to Mars, we're actively involved in Mars, and we have a team of people who are explorers of Mars already?
I'm thinking here about the man we're about to speak with, Captain Randy Kramer.
He claims to have spent 17 years on Mars and three years on a secret space fleet as part of explorations.
Now, a few of my listeners have got in touch with me and said, you've got to get Captain Randy Kramer on here.
And I know he's done American radio, so let's put him on and see where this goes.
Can I call you Captain Randy Kramer or Randy?
Randy's just fine.
Randy, thanks very much for coming on.
Talk to me about you then.
What's your background?
Oh, wow.
Well, I guess if you're asking about my military background, I am literally born out of a project that was dreamt up in the mid-60s to augment and or create from scratch genetically augmented soldiers.
And so before sort of 1965, there was a lot of different programs trying to do gene therapy and other such things to augment already living soldiers.
And then some people decided that we really should just start from scratch and build them from the ground up.
So you're saying that the U.S. military was trying to enhance the quality of soldiers so that they could perform better?
Absolutely.
Well, we certainly at that time were cracking a number of different books and tables of information from extraterrestrial sources and extraterrestrial technology that was giving us jumps ahead of civilian technology and civilian research and development.
So the ability for the military to start doing genetic experiments ahead of what anything in the civilian world was was due to that, to advanced technology infused within those programs that gave us the leap ahead.
So once we had access to that technology, people wanted to figure out how to use it.
And so the first thing to do was try and figure out how to augment who you've already got.
And then once we did enough tests with that and realized that it was minimally effective, that you really just had to do what some of the ETs were telling us that we needed to do who were working us, including scientists who were coming down, working in our labs on the ground, on terrestrial soil with us, to advise us.
No, you really want to do this right.
You've got to start from the ground up and you got to build the chain and build a map and start from the beginning and don't try and do it later on.
Randy, where did you come into all of this then?
Where were you serving?
With whom?
Well, no, no, that is the answer to where I come in all this.
I was one of the first genetically created soldiers from that project.
I was built in a Petri dish from the ground up in late 19, mid-1969, and I was born in 1970.
You're kidding.
No, absolutely not.
That is a fact.
And look, I mean, I hear what you say.
I mean, you sound perfectly rational when you talk to me.
How can we be sure of that?
Have you got proof?
Not the kind that I could show you through radio channels, that's for sure.
The main piece of proof that I have to throw out to people is that I live in the most militarized nation in the world.
We have no sense of humor at all about people who impersonate officers for any reason whatsoever.
And if I were impersonating an officer, and I've spoken to my attorney about this, there are absolutely steps that would be taken by the FBI and by the Marine Corps to discuss with me about my fraudulently doing so and how I needed to cease and desist and do that.
All right, so if they thought you were passing yourself off as Captain Randy Kramer of the Space Corps, they would close you down first.
Well, I'm saying is that if I were doing that fraudulently, the process that they would follow through on is to contact me and tell me to cease and desist and show proof, in which case then I would say, great, I'd love a hearing in a jag officer.
And my lawyer has essentially assured me that I'm probably never going to hear from them because they never want to give me a hearing.
But the real answer is the reason why they would not confront me about that is because I am not committing fraud.
And otherwise they would.
That's really the best answer that I have is I live in a country that has no sense of humor and does not consider any excuse acceptable to impersonate an officer.
And you just couldn't go around saying you're a Marine Corps officer and be lying about it and not be accountable for it.
And I've been doing this for years now.
And if anyone wanted to talk to me about it, which I've said a number of times in interviews, if anybody from the FBI Justice Department Marine Corps wants to come talk to me and discuss what I'm talking about or doing, I'd be happy to chit-chat with them about it.
So you're saying that they're letting you do this and they're letting you come on radio shows like this one because you're telling the truth.
But if you were telling the truth, wouldn't that be a reason to close you down?
Oh, I'll go a step further than that.
No, the command staff of United States Marine Corps Special Section decided that they needed a public spokesperson to act as their public relations officer.
And apparently there was a short list Of which my name was put on, and then when they went through that list, eventually it came up to me.
And then my brigadier general asked me very politely if I wanted to be the public spokesperson guy.
And first, I was like, not really, but he convinced me, and I said, all right, fine.
And so, yeah, my commanders have absolutely authorized me through a number of legal parameters which exist in the United States Marine Corps Special Section Special Code of Conduct that go beyond giving me permission outside of security clearance.
There's actually a legal mandate for me to do what I'm doing.
I've talked a little bit about that in interviews before, but it's kind of a lengthy legal argument.
I've got a million questions for you, but let's wind it back to when you came into this world.
You say you were created artificially in a Petri dish and you somehow came up from there.
What was your early life like?
Where was it spent?
What did you do?
Sure.
Well, protocol there is to take a engineered embryo and implant it into the terrestrial human, mother, and parental units to which you're taking the basic genetic information from.
So my physiological parents, which the basic information was taken from and then, you know, added to, augmented, and changed in the Petri dish, as it were, I was born to those parents.
And I lived, you know, a fairly normal middle working class life in the Pacific Northwest like, you know, anybody else around me and had a pretty standard education and a pretty standard life up until the points when traumas and memories started to take the forefront and I had to figure out what was going on and take 100% dedication to move the memory blocks which are in place, which are security precautions, really, both for you and your family.
Did you go to school with ordinary kids?
Oh, absolutely.
Yeah.
Well, there's two things happening there at the same time.
You're living a normal life, which you wake up every day and you perceive that you are going through normally.
And then usually at nighttime, when they decide to go take you away for training periods or educational missions or educational experiences, whatever the training is, which ends up being a number of years total worth of training because they start when you're a toddler.
Who are they?
Who are they taking you away?
Oh, this is a program that was run by a United States Marine Corps Special Section called Project Moonshadow.
It was a program that started with 300 boys and girls, about 75% of them boys, about 25% of them girls.
So you were created for a mission right from the start?
Absolutely.
Yeah, as part of a larger group whose sort of, as a larger test group would be to say, if we create soldiers this way using this format, is it successful?
Does it work better than other ways that we would create soldiers?
And we've been done very well.
So I think that we proved our point that it was a better way of making soldiers.
And your physiological parents who contributed to you, how involved were they in this?
They must have been totally involved in this.
I just can't have any knowledge whatsoever.
They have no knowledge.
All right.
And so how did you get knowledge of it then?
If they didn't know, who told you?
Well, I always would wake up with memories of things that would happen in the middle of the night.
You would just wake up and sort of disassociate them thinking, wow, that was the strangest, longest dream ever.
Even though you had a dream that seemed to last days or weeks at a time and seemed to be very consistent and not have weird dreamlike qualities to it and have a very solid linear timeline to it other than that, you know, you wake up and there's sort of this, when you're talking about how like brainwave at conscious brainwave activity works,
when you move from delta theta wave sleep states and move up through what's called your alpha bridge into your beta states, you often forget and disassociate what's happening in that theta or delta state.
So because primarily what you're being trained in is in a lower brainwave consciousness state, which is actually better for training than a high beta state, so that when you come out of sort of into your waking consciousness, you kind of shake it off and go, wow, that was a really weird long dream, even though nothing about it, if you were to sit down with a dream analyst at that age and talk to them, would really indicate that you were having a dream.
They would go, wow, that is the weirdest experience I've ever heard.
But you don't think that when you're nine years old.
You just think, wow, I just had the weirdest, longest dream ever.
And I learned after a few conversations with my parents, like, you know, waking up and sitting at the breakfast table and saying, wow, I had this weird dream last night.
Let me tell you about it.
And getting those disconcerted looks from your parents to know, I shouldn't bring this up again.
That makes them worried.
Did they think you needed help?
No, because otherwise I was a smart, well-adjusted child that did well in school and didn't have, you know, emotional outbursts really and was incredibly well-behaved.
So they had no reason to think otherwise.
So when did the force that created you to serve intervene and start getting involved in your life as a kid?
When did they start training you?
And how?
The earliest memories of training are probably really somewhere between about three and a half and four years old.
Very young.
Very, very young.
Right.
Okay, and you would be taken away from your parents for training.
Right.
And they didn't know anything about this.
Well, you know, when I was a kid, if anybody taken me away from my mum and dad, they'd be hearing from my dad pretty damn quick.
Right.
So your parents, they must have been aware of this or they must have made a fuss about it.
If you were disappearing for periods going to get training and you weren't with them, presumably.
Surely.
I mean, some of this doesn't, I have to say, some of this is difficult to take in because they didn't know anything about it.
Or I guess we're missing an important component.
What's the missing link then?
Which is that, again, because we're talking about programs that are using reversed and or handed down technology from extraterrestrials, their ability to do things like hover over your house with a spaceship, you know, and pick you up and or project a wormhole into your bedroom and pick you up and or take you to a location for training and use time travel to take you back so that you're actually put back in your bed five minutes after you left so
that nobody was happening.
Even though you were.
I will say this.
I want to add this one thing because I think it's kind of important.
My mother is actually a very metaphysically psionically sensitive person.
And I will say that she has always had insomnia and is one of those people that I think she was aware that something was going on, and it was one of the reasons why she was always had horrible insomnia and was always terrified that someone was coming to take her children away.
So on some level, your mom knew about this on some level.
On an intuitive level, I think she did, and it created a lot of the panic and anxiety she had around sleep issues and around, you know, being the house being broken into at night and so forth, which there was no evidence that that was happening, but I think she was intuitively tuned into it and was very panicky.
Captain Randy Kramer, the secret mission to Mars.
I have to tell from your texts and tweets, not all of you are buying into this necessarily.
Randy, you must get a lot of opposition from people who simply don't believe it.
To be honest, not nearly as much as you might think.
I mean, there are certainly the number of unranked civilian internet people who want to have their opinion about it.
But when it comes to my interactions with my local politicians, elected representatives, local law enforcement, other professional persons, agencies, military personnel, NASA engineers, a whole list of very, very professional credentialed people, it's never even a question.
They don't bat an eyelash with me.
They all talk to me very professionally and are very interested in what I've done and what I'm doing and research and development projects that we're working on.
And I actually get an incredibly positive reaction from people.
The only real negative reactions I get are in the trolling comment section on the internet.
I've never had a single person walk up to me and tell me they thought that was full of crap.
Not one, ever.
Okay.
We have a character on radio here called Captain Cremon, who is a bit of a wacky cartoon space explorer created by a disc jockey on radio who's a really creative guy called Kenny Everett.
Julie has tweeted just to say this is more Captain Cremen than Captain Kramer.
But anyway, look him up on the show.
Oh no, that's nice.
That's good.
I like that.
That's actually funny.
I like that.
No, I think it's a nice comment.
There are people, though, who say that this is ridiculous rubbish.
But we're going to have the conversation and we can prove, if we can, that those people are wrong.
So, Randy, there you are at school.
You're being trained.
You were born to a mission.
When did you know what the mission was?
Not until I got there.
So when I was deployed, which was when I was 17 years old, you know, I was led away to in the standard format at that time, which was through a jump gate or wormhole door sort of that opens up in the wall or a door in your room and went through there by a couple of technicians that lead you back and forth and typical walk down the hall,
get on a TR-3B black manta, which is these black triangle ships that the military has.
A TR-3B Black Manta.
Yeah, the Black Triangle ones that everyone sees.
Yeah, they're called the Black Manta.
They're made by Northrop.
It's called the TR-3B because it's a triangle ship.
You're saying that they're ours and not.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, primarily, if you see a black triangle, that's one that we built.
Yeah, primarily.
Okay, well, they are a commonly reported UFO on both sides of the Atlantic and around the world.
Oh, yeah, they're all over.
I have said this before.
They are the covert military space program workhorse.
They are used by everybody for everything.
They shuttle things and people back and forth, cargo back and forth, and do surveillance missions.
And I mean, they are just the workhorse because it's the first perfected intrasolar space vehicle that we perfected and mass-produced.
And it's just there are ships that were built in the late 60s and early 1970s, which are still in commission that are still running.
You know, they're rusty, shaky buckets, but they still get the job done, apparently.
So you were being taken away.
The point is that you are being taken away by various craft and various means.
Now, if I was being taken away, especially when I was younger, I'd kick against it.
If I didn't realize why it was all being done entirely, I would say, please don't take me away.
Sure.
What about you?
Well, in the very beginning, as a kid, you're certainly given childlike explanations for what you're doing and where you're going and what the training's for.
And so basically, you got an adult standing there, you want to shoot ray guns and fight space monsters, don't you?
And you're all like, yeah, I want to shoot ray guns and fight space monsters.
And so it's an easy motivation for a young boy, you know, with sort of being surrounded by all this high-tech, you know, sci-fi stuff to be convinced that, you know, you're going to fight space monsters and shoot ray guns.
And that sounds like a blast at that point.
And then as you get older, it just becomes more part of this is what you're disciplined to be trained and to follow orders and to go somewhere and do what you're told to do.
And so by the time you're deployed, it's just a perfectly natural process of, oh, we're time to go somewhere.
Okay.
I didn't know.
So they drew you into this by saying, hey, little man, do you want to play with a ray gun like you've seen in the movies and on the TV?
Psychologically, yeah, psychologically, but genetically, keep in mind, I was engineered and built for this.
So I'm also engineered and built to think and want that this is a good idea.
So it wasn't something that I would have resisted anyway because I was genetically engineered to think it was a good idea.
Do you have capabilities that maybe I and my colleagues here tonight don't have?
I tend to be a little smarter, a little faster, a little stronger than everybody else.
And when you say you're a little stronger, what can you do that we can't?
It really comes down to what happens with my physical strength in a physical fight.
And the best way to explain that is if I get jumped by three guys, my physical body will respond as if I'm getting jumped by three guys.
If I get jumped by 20 guys, my body will respond as if I'm getting jumped by 20 guys.
So it escalates its output based on the input attack.
So the more people who attack me, the stronger and faster I will be.
Have you been in that situation, Randy?
Oh, yeah.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
I've moved incredibly fast and incredibly strong.
It terrified me, to be honest with you.
I locked myself in my house for three days, not knowing what was going on.
I was so terrified of what happened.
And have you been given guidance on how to use the extra strength that you've got?
Because I guess if you're down here a lot of the time, you've got to use it responsibly.
You can't go putting yourself about like that.
No, no, absolutely.
I mean, that was years ago when I really didn't understand.
I still had memory blocks, and I didn't understand where all this was coming from.
I have total recall at this point, and all of my, we call them safeties are off.
So at any given point that I need to use those abilities, I can.
I have all the knowledge and memory and experience of training with it for decades.
So I have no problem using it like you use a knife and fork at the dinner table.
So it's a skill that is completely under my control and completely in my grasp and has its own safety protocols to keep me from killing innocent people and so forth.
But basically, anyone who comes will be sorry to be hurt very badly by me.
I've never lost a fight.
And in terms of physical capabilities, can you kind of, I know you probably can't leap tall buildings in a single bound, but can you sort of jump over high walls and stuff like that and run faster?
Well, yeah, like I said, it's situation responsive.
So the faster I need to run, the faster I'll run.
The higher I need to jump, the higher I will jump.
And like the actual limitations of that as far as like inches and feet are classified.
But again, it escalates based on threat.
So we're not really sure what the top of those scales are sometimes because we haven't necessarily seen top-scale threat.
When did you get to know that you were being prepared for a mission to Mars?
Well, I never knew that I was being prepared for a mission to Mars.
I knew that I was being prepared for something.
Even in my waking conscious walking down the street moments, I knew that I had a job and some kind of special mission and I was being prepped for something, even though I had no idea what it was.
You know, people would talk about, what do you want to do with your life?
And I would just internally know, I know what I'm doing with my life.
I just can't talk about it.
And I would know that I couldn't talk about it.
And I would not verbally try to say anything about it.
And then in cases where I did attempt to verbally try and discuss it with people, I would literally be incapable of verbal speech for the number of minutes that it would take for me to stop wanting to talk about it.
As bizarre as that may sound, there was some kind of lockdown mechanism that if I tried to talk about it, I would literally be physically impaired.
My vocal cords would stop working.
I would be incapable of passing air over them and unable to make physical speech.
Wow.
I don't think I've got another word.
Okay.
Talk to me about the first mission to Mars, though, because you say, if I've got this right from this piece that I printed out here, you say that you spent 17 years on the red planet.
Correct.
So typically a tour of duty is 20 years, and I spent the better part of 17 plus years doing a tour of duty on Mars in the MDF before I got a promotion and got to go to flight school and then got to be a pilot and finish out my tour of duty as a pilot on the Nautilus,
which is one of the larger Naval Space Command sort of spacecraft carriers, if you want to call it that, that has a number of air wings of these sort of dart vehicles on them, dart craft on them that go really, really fast.
And we patrol the solar system to keep it safe from things.
And that was my 20-year tour.
So most of that was spent on the ground in the MDF, though.
Yeah.
I'm getting with the program now.
So you spent all those long periods, but because they're able, they've got back-engineered technology, presumably, that allows them to compress time, you are not like 60 or 70 years of age now, which you would have to be if you'd served all of those periods.
See, now here's the funny part, right?
Is because of their ability...
At the end of your 20-year tour, they take you back to LOC, which is Luna Operations Command on the Moon.
And they say, okay, we're going to, you know, wipe out your memory from all the traumatic, secure things that you don't want to remember anyway.
And we're going to send you back in a young, do basically hatch you out a new clone body that's the same age when they took you away.
And they, and I know this is going to sound weird to some people again, but high advanced alien technology has, and science has gotten us to understand that the human soul is a quantum fluid and can be removed and pumped out of the body, put into another container and held and or put back into another vessel or another body.
And so through a mechanism which I was not conscious for, obviously, and I do not recall or do know how it works, other than they're able to remove the soul from that body, put it into this younger clone body that's the same age when you left, repress all your memories, and then put you back and you essentially wake up, you know, 15 minutes after you left from a 20-year tour.
Again, with this sense of, wow, I just had the longest, weirdest dream ever that went on for decades.
But I must not have because I'm looking in the mirror and I'm still 17 years old and I'm looking at myself and it's the same day that I went tonight, the bed I went the night before.
And so you obviously know something's wrong.
You obviously know something's not right.
You obviously know that you experience something, but any ability to try and prove it or connect it at that point, you can't because you're in a younger body.
Of course, some people would say that's very convenient.
Well, and it's a security precaution, too, as well.
And so the answer to the yesual question there is because of training periods and the 20-year tour, quantum dilations, my actual chronological experiential age is about 80 years old.
So I am an 80-year-old man in a 45-year-old body, 46-year-old body.
That must mean you're incredibly wise.
I don't know if that's true.
I'd like to think that I've taken my best experiences and try to learn from them and not make dumb mistakes anymore.
If that's wisdom, then I guess I got a little, but I don't know if I can claim tons of wisdom at this point in my life.
Hold that thought.
Captain Randy Kramer of the MDF Is online to the unexplained MDF not being something you buy from BNQ to make cupboards with, but it's a Mars Defense Force.
We'll find out more about this and we'll ask him the questions that I'm sure you are wanting asked.
What is it like being on Mars?
Okay, we've seen the pictures, but apparently there is more to this than meets the eye.
And I will also remember to ask him in the next segment after we've taken these commercials about the Lunar Operations Command or Center, wasn't it, which is like an intermediate base, he said.
If it's there, why haven't we seen it?
These questions and more for Captain Randy Kramer, coming next.
Hey, Randy Kramer, you are dividing my audience here.
Some of them love it, and some of them say, gee, we're not sure about this.
But amazing stuff.
Okay, let's, if you just join us now, if you're half an hour into this hour and you missed the first half hour, if you see what I'm saying, Captain Randy Kramer is a man who was bred for missions to Mars.
And he was taken away from home, deputed to go to Mars for very, very long periods, like a couple of decades, but then brought back and by means of time compression, something very similar, gets back in his bed at home and is only 17 years of age.
Now, I've heard you tell that story on American radio exactly like this.
You are not inconsistent with your story.
I have to give you that.
When you tell it, you always tell it the same.
And they do say with people who are making stuff up, there are inconsistencies in the story.
So I have to give you this, Randy.
It is the same story wherever you tell it, and it is amazing.
That's just because I tell it how I remember it every time.
So there's a reason why.
All right.
Okay.
Well, you know, you've got a wrapped audience across the nation in the UK and around the world listening to you.
Everybody wants to know, how do you get to Mars?
How long does it take?
What's the journey like?
And when you get there, what's it like?
Well, in the case of how we got there, I mean, there's a number of ways to get there.
There you certainly have jump gates that go there.
And yeah, jump gates are one way that people get there.
I didn't generate that.
Which are a jump gate?
A wormhole generator that basically creates a portal, a gate in front of you, and you walk through it, and you come out the other side at another location, like wormhole gate, jump gates, what we call them.
And who generates those?
Where is, I mean, is there some secret base in the U.S. somewhere where somebody does this?
Oh, yeah.
I mean, it's definitely among the most advanced and sort of cloistered technologies.
So there are plenty of people who don't have access to it, who would love to have access to it, who have to resort to other ships that go much slower than jump gates do.
But depending on what your purpose is and who you have as your friend and whether you can get access to one for the purposes that you need to, depends on a number of classifications and where you work and so forth.
But yeah, there's a number of them all over the place.
There's a number of departments who have them, but it's very advanced technology.
Not everybody's got jumpgate technology.
And when you go there, you can get there by jumpgate.
When you go there, when you go to Mars, whether it's by jumpgate or you're taken there by ship, craft, whatever, you're not alone.
There are other people.
Oh, absolutely.
We were on a ship that probably had, at my best estimate, because of its size, I couldn't tell you specifically, 4,000 or 5,000 people on it.
And it essentially left Lunar Operations Command.
And then that ship went through a larger jump gate that ships can also travel through space through, and then came out in orbit of Mars and then said, welcome to Mars, everybody.
And then landed down on the tarmac at Ares Primus, where the headquarters of the MCC Mars Colony Corporation is and the MDF headquarters are.
And we landed there.
And then everyone's got, if anyone's ever been in the military and they know how this, you have a packet with you with all your orders and your papers and your identification and everything.
And so as everyone's going through a line with their packets, they're getting identified which line we have to go through, which shuttle you have to get on and where you're going to.
And we were just divided up and separated at that point.
And then I got on this little shuttle that has like these, I call it like an atomic powered thrusting school bus, you know, about the size of that.
And it was very loud, very shaky.
And that was about a two and a half hour flight to the base where I finally was stationed at the moment.
So that was the shuttle.
The flight itself.
Kind of shut up.
The flight itself took 15 minutes.
The flight to Mars took us 15 minutes because we went by jump gate.
So it was a very short flight.
Very important point, and people would get on my back if I didn't put this point to you.
But some of those craft have, you said, a few thousand people on board them, which they might well have.
Where are all of those people, and why aren't they speaking too?
Well, some of them do.
Do they?
But yeah, sure.
Some of them do.
There aren't a lot because most of them, their memories have been repressed very, very, either badly or well.
And so sometimes their brains end up being more Swiss cheese and oatmeal.
And it's hard for them to bring memories to a cohesive state.
I talk to people all the time who are in the process of unfolding their traumatic memory experiences and are constantly asking me for advice on how to remember things more clearly and how to get their memories back and how to deal with the trauma and so forth.
And so there's a lot of people who are.
I will just be honest and tell you that most of them, quite simply, have no desire to be an out-in-front public person.
They don't want to be targeted.
They do not want to be, you know, get any hassle from anybody because most of them have not been given permission by command officers.
You must admit that a lot of people would find it strange that you are the main person authorized, you say, to be doing the speaking about this.
If there are so many people who go through that experience, and if you're in contact with them here on Earth.
Well, I'm one.
I'm one of two.
Yeah, there are two people actually.
Well, let me put it in, try and answer that in a more broad way, to be more specific, to get where you're going at with that.
The larger fleet that Naval Space Command sort of runs for the planet is divided into two fleets in the same way that here in America we have a Pacific fleet and Atlantic fleet to separate ships and guard sort of two different coastal ports.
And so in order to sort of divide up policing of the solar system, it's easier to sort of divide it in an imaginary Line down the middle of it and have a fleet on the one side and another fleet on the other side.
So you have the equivalent of sort of this Pacific and Atlantic fleet, and they are called Solar Warden and Radiant Guardian.
Now, each fleet decided that they needed to have a spokesperson and that they would pick a spokesperson, and those each of those spokespersons would come out about the same time.
And which one are you the spokesperson for?
I am the spokesperson for Radiant Guardian.
The other spokesperson for Solar Warden is a gentleman by the name of Corey Good.
You may or may not have heard of him.
Is he in America?
He is, absolutely.
If you don't know about him, look him up.
He actually does a lot of public speaking, and he's recently been talking a lot about some of the wild stuff that's happening down in Antarctica.
He actually does a lot more public work than I do right now because public relations is just the tiniest of my jobs right now.
But he does a lot more public speaking than I do.
You said policing the solar system.
Who is policing the solar system?
Well, Earth Defense Force, Naval Space Command, and this other sort of loose international group of military persons who sort of conglomerate together to make up the fleet.
So a number of participating countries have officers and pilots and so forth that they contribute to the larger program, and then those people are distributed throughout the fleet in various missions and persons.
So this is real-life Star Trek then?
It's the Federation?
Pretty much.
I mean, except that if you want to get real, Marmi, you get all nerdy about it.
The Federation's mission was very diplomatic and peaceful and was non-military.
And we definitely have a military mission because we considered the military protection of the solar system to be absolutely necessary given the tangible threats that we have to deal with, which again aren't so horrible that we can't deal with them, but there is a list of tangible threats that we have to deal with.
Now, one of our listeners, Hedy, who is a scientist and is a regular contributor to this show, says, prolonged exposure to 17 years or whatever of Martian gravity would cause massive bone deterioration.
How did you avoid that?
Well, we have this amazing medical technology that was used on us all the time because we were in the field engaging in regular combat, and I've had my arms and my legs blown off so many times I can't even count.
And they essentially use what we call a holographic regenerating medical bed technology, which uses a projected hologram at a cellular level to convince your body to regrow and damaged and ripped off limbs.
So you can see that it's a bad thing.
What's that technique called again?
I love the name of that.
What's that called?
Holographic?
A holographic regenerating medical bed.
Holy moly.
It uses a hologram that has a resolution at the cellular level that projects of a perfect image of your body that restores damaged tissue and or at the end of a severed limb will fool that cellular tissue to keep going.
Because the only thing that stops your tissue from growing when you've blown off a limb is it reaches, oh, there's nothing here to keep going to.
But if you convince it by having a hologram at a cellular level that it goes, oh, I can just keep growing.
You essentially fool your body that it can just keep growing and you can regrow an entire limb.
Right.
So there's a master template of you somewhere.
They use it.
Your perfect genetic.
Basically, it's just a DNA map that they can project holographically.
What I can do is one of those.
Well, there is a university outfit of some guys who have a primitive software that does the same thing.
And basically what you can do is put in a genetic code and it will give you a simplified virtual model of what that person will look like.
So very external, not like to any kind of cellular resolution.
But that technology has already been developed by a university here in the States to take that genetic code and then translate that into what that should look like as building blocks and then project the person, the image of the person that would make.
So it's just a more precise software and hardware to get the results that I'm talking about.
All right.
When you're not serving the fleet and doing this job of talking to the world about what you've been through, what do you do?
Do you have a regular job in the States?
My regular job is as an independent field commander of United States Marine Corps Special Section.
So under that series of duties is three main things right now that I have to deal with, which is criminal investigation, research and development, and public relations.
So the research and development.
Criminal investigation.
Yes.
I have have a couple of very, I'm just going to call them strange ex-file type cases that have been given for me to deal with that involve criminal activity of a very unusual nature, which I'm really, because it's an open criminal case, I can't really say anything more about it.
But yeah, those are probably, that's my top priority, to be honest with you right now.
Randy, what does it say on your paycheck?
I don't get one.
That's why I'm an independent field commander.
I'm responsible for dealing with all of my own resources and so forth.
How do you live?
How do you make ends meet, as we say here?
How do you pay for your food, your accommodation, all the rest of it?
There are some wonderful people who have been wonderful and helped me out when I've needed it.
I do teach a psionics class, and every once in a while when I do one of those, I get a marginal fee for teaching a class.
I get teeny fees for public speaking, which doesn't amount to anything.
But to be honest, it's some really wonderful people who have picked up the Slack and said, you know, we want to help you and have, you know, taken care of that for me.
So really some wonderful folks.
But I know it's not called this, but why aren't the Star Corps paying you?
Oh, that is actually a more complicated legal reason.
Being activated under the Independent Field Commander Clauses, I actually have a greater legal authority to do the things that I need to do as an independent field commander, not getting a paycheck than I would getting a paycheck, which would actually limit what I can do.
Without a much more complicated legal discussion of that, it's a very specific legal parameter on being independent versus being completely dependent on them.
Do you often get asked the question I've just asked you about how do you pay for all this?
Not a ton.
I mean, every once in a while, but, you know, like I said, I've got some wonderful people who have been really great and just really stepped up to the plate to help out.
Captain Randy Kramer, a man who's been on a lifelong mission to Mars, has actually been there for extended periods, and then brought back to Earth and has been healed up there whenever he's had injuries.
It's a quite remarkable story.
And Randy, you told me the story about how you don't get paid by the people behind the mission so that you can maintain your independence.
Do me a favor, Randy, don't tell any radio station that explanation for why you shouldn't be paid because they're all going to be using it.
You know, I've got bills to pay.
Oh, I do too, believe me.
And it is an issue, and I've had to discuss this with my Brigadier General many times, and his explanation, which gets very complicated and legal mumbo-jumbo to me, is always the same, which is ultimately I have way more legal authority and power to do the things that I'm doing than I would if I was taking a check from him under the laws, the independent field commander clauses and the USMCSSSC.
Have you got a contract that you can read, like a piece of paper with these people?
Not in front of me that I could show you.
I mean, let me put it this way, in a box, somewhere in a vault, my records exist, and then there is a contract.
I'm going through a process to try and get them, but I don't expect it to happen soon.
There's essentially a back door, side door process to go through an elected representative, and they can make certain requests.
And it's a long, tedious affair.
And I don't expect, to be honest, we expect to get way more traction doing some of the other things that we're doing, the work that we're doing now than going that route, to be honest with you.
So I've almost abandoned it because I think I'm going to be able to get them through a much quicker means by going another direction.
Randy, where you live, do you have neighbors?
Yeah, yeah, sure.
Do they know what you do?
Some of them do, sure.
And what do they make of it?
Some of them are, you know, huge fans, I guess is a nice way to say it.
I mean, you know, I've got a couple of nice neighbors down the road who, you know, listen to all my interviews and love the crap out of me.
My next-door neighbor, you know, I've been keeping her posted for a while, and she's always been worried for my safety more than anything else, you know, bless her heart.
But again, as much as you might hear people going back and forth on the internet, none of the people who I have personally talked to, had personal experiences with, who've personally met me, have ever given me any crap whatsoever and have never questioned me.
All right.
If we can minimize or reduce or completely remove the expletives, that would be great.
Although, you know, I think it's late at night.
That's probably okay.
All right.
Sorry, I try my best, but I do have a potty mouth.
I try.
Sorry.
Okay, well, you know, this is the radio and we are the United Kingdom.
And, you know, we're, you know, we try and rise above those things.
Okay.
So, Mars.
What's it like to be on the surface of Mars?
Well, the gravity is less than half.
It's about 0.4.
So, you know, it's much lighter, that's for sure.
And that's why you have the extra strength then, presumably.
Well, I mean, first of all, we're there in an augmented powered body armor environment suit.
So not only do you have the ability to sort of jump higher and throw things farther, you're in a powered body armor.
So you can even jump higher and farther and throw things farther.
So it's a little crazy.
But you're not allowed to bring that back with you.
Oh, heck no.
Let me put it into another perspective.
If we were to have extraterrestrials from a larger, heavier gravity planet come here, they would be able to lift cars and jump across buildings and so forth.
So when we go to Mars, we're that species.
We're that alien from a heavy gravity planet that can jump over houses and throw cars.
Got it.
What about your interactions, if there are any, with what we call ETs?
Do you have any of those?
Yes.
Certainly we had rough and tumble combat on the red planet itself between two different reptoid species and an insectoid species from time to time.
But I have to say that my most, if I'm going to say that there is an icing on the cake anywhere in this, if I'm going to say that there's one thing that was a trade-off that I got out of my career here that made it all worthwhile,
it was what I'm about to tell you, was while I was on the Nautilus, I was very, very, very, very fortunate on a number of missions to the Intergalactic Space Station, not the International Space Station, the Intergalactic Space Station that rotates around Jupiter, which is a meeting place for a number of species from all over the place.
We meet there, other people meet there to have some really fascinating discussions, mostly diplomatic arrangements, contract negotiations, etc., treaty negotiations.
And on a number of occasions, I was tag along, basically, as one of the only officers, flight officers with hand-to-hand combat experience, I was a just-in-case, even though there was never a just-in-case.
It was always very peaceful arrangements.
But they wanted one guy who could stab somebody in the eye with their thumb if they needed to, and that was me.
So I got to go along, and I got to sit at many different tables across from many different species while senior officers were having many different discussions, initial negotiations, contract negotiations, treaty negotiations, first contact meetings.
It was one of the most amazing things ever.
And in that dozens of species.
Who are your favorites?
I'm sorry?
Who are your favorites?
Oh, gosh.
I mean, on Star Trek, I used to like on the old series, The Little Tribbles.
They were good.
But, I mean, of all the species, you know, who are the most interesting and the ones that you like?
Or do you like them all?
You know, as a person who has always been very sort of like science-motivated, I mean, I was a nerdy science kid, you know, from the get-go.
And so I was always fascinated and interested, no matter what, no matter what they looked like, no matter where they were from, no matter what their behavior was, I was always fascinated and interested to understand what in the world it was like.
So you're somewhere else.
You're a diplomat.
You're a diplomat, and you like them all.
Last question, and we've got to have a quick answer, I'm afraid, Randy, because we're out of time.
What an interesting hour this has been in so many ways.
But if these things are on Mars, the bases and all the rest of it, if there is an intermediate base on the moon, if there's an intergalactic space station, why can't we see any of this?
Well, because it's, well, the lunar activity is on the dark side, first of all.
And there are some photographs of some of the bases and so forth back there.
I don't necessarily have them because it's not something I focus on.
Corey, good, you want to see some photographs?
He's got photographs, and I mean, he's got a ton of stuff on the dark side of the Mars.
We'll be calling him.
As far as Mars is concerned, they definitely are using some of the most advanced cloaking devices ever.
So they're things that you simply won't see because there's a cloaking device making it look like it's just not there.
But I would also say this, anyone who wanted to sacrifice thousands of hours of their life and go through the European Space Administration Mars photos, which are some really, really good color high-resolution photos, there's some amazing things to be seen there.
I've gone through some of them and some of the large ships in the middle of nowhere, you know, in canyons in the middle of nowhere, what look like, you know, very old building structures.
I mean, there's some really some stuff to see there.
When we get these orange pictures back from Mars, from NASA, they're all orange-tinted, and it looks like rubble up there.
I mean, there are some people who say that they can see figures and various other things.
But, you know, it looks like rubble, mostly.
Just nothing in particular.
I thought there was a really great picture that came off the JPL that had a rodent tucked between two rocks.
Well, people differed about what it was.
There have been lots of photographs like that.
Mainly a photograph of a woman in an evening gown, supposedly.
Yeah, that was more fuzzy.
But the rodent on the ground, I mean, it looked like a giant rat squirrel there next to a rock.
I mean, I thought that was way less fuzzy and way less questionable.
But there certainly is a lot of questions that people can ask about that.
And I have some other photos.
I like, I mean, I have JPL photographs, satellite photographs of forests on Mars showing like infrared pictures of forests and like animal.
It says in the bottom, even in the tagline, you know, forest with, you know, wildlife with animals, with biological life.
They look, to me, kind of like, they're so far away because of the infrared shot.
I don't know.
They look kind of like camels, almost like elephants.
I really can't even say.
But you can see the trees.
You can see forests.
You can see these biological animals that look like they have four legs.
So there is evidence out there.
I have a few things I can send you if you want.
I just don't tend to gather a lot more.
Send them.
I'm going to see them.
Listen, we've got to go.
But Captain Randy Kramer, I have a million more questions.
I've no time to ask you.
Thank you very much.
And please.
Oh, you can have me back anytime.
The remarkable Captain Randy Kramer.
I know you will have your views on what you've just heard, and I would like to hear from you at theunexplained.tv.
I have a feeling we will get a mix of views there.
But look, it's not for me to say that none of that was correct.
I don't know.
And to you, if you can prove that it isn't or prove that it is, then I would really like to speak to you as well.
Next up, Nick Pope, the man who worked for the British Ministry of Defense, collating UFO reports, one of the coolest jobs.
Now, they don't do that anymore.
They disbanded the unit that does that back in 2009.
Nick Pope moved to America and continues to do his work, as you are about to hear.
Just have to explain to our listeners, this is a Skype connection.
It may occasionally falter, but it's better than a croaky old phone line.
Talk to me about what you're up to these days then, how life has shaped up for you.
Are you still collating UFO reports?
Do people still contact you with those?
A lot of people do reach out to me with their own sightings, experiences.
But to be honest, now that I've left the British government, I don't have the resources and the capabilities to investigate other people's sightings.
I don't have, for example, access to the Ministry of Defence resources and capabilities when it comes to imagery analysis.
A lot of people send me photos and videos, but I simply can't do it.
I just don't have access to that capability anymore.
And I have to pass things like that either to a civilian group such as MUFON, Mutual UFO Network, or if it's in the UK, perhaps Bufora, British UFO Research Association.
But I have plenty of other things that are keeping me busy.
I'm doing lots of television work over here.
Series like Ancient Aliens, of course, are absolutely huge.
But there's also NASA's Unexplained files, Unsealed, a new show called UFO's The Lost Evidence.
It's almost constant.
They're going to love your British accent as well.
You said that, of course, you don't have access to all of the archives of the MOD.
Are they still keeping any kind of archives?
If I wanted to make a report of something that I saw in the sky, perhaps near some military facility somewhere in East Anglia, where would I turn these days and would anybody be listening?
Well, you could contact the community relations officer at local level through a military base, but frankly, they're likely to give you the brush off and suggest that you simply contact the media or a civilian UFO research group.
Really, the government's involvement in this subject finished in December 2009 when, after over 50 years of this, the Ministry of Defence axed the UFO project as part of a wider round of defense cuts.
And since then, yes, there's been a vast number of files declassified and made available to the public, some of that at the National Archives, some still to come.
There are still 18 files that they're working on, some of which should be out later this year, a few of which might actually, you might have to wait till early 2018.
Right.
Well, you worked there.
You're going to know roughly what's in them.
Are they going to be interesting to us?
Oh, very interesting.
And yes, not only did I work on them, but I wrote some of them.
And of course, I've been involved in part of this program to release this material.
I often do media interviews about them when these files are released.
And this was a process that started, by the way, In May 2008, when the first batch of files was released.
And so far, we've managed to get over 60,000 documents into the public domain.
A lot of it, fascinating stuff.
No smoking gun, sadly.
No spaceship in a hangar document for people.
But that's not to say there isn't a wealth of fascinating information there.
Cases where these things were seen by pilots, police officers, military personnel tracked on radar, and policy papers, too.
Very interesting, showing how the government handles this subject with parliament, the media, and indeed the public.
And how does the British government, or how has the British government, traditionally handled this?
Well, I think the polite way to put it, and I was as guilty of this as anyone, is that we span.
We had this soundbite, no defense significance, which we routinely trotted out.
And as far back as the 60s, there were documents quite openly, well, not open to the public, but circulating internally in the ministry, saying our policy is to downplay this subject and avoid attracting any undue attention to it.
So that's what I mean by spin.
Well, if you were bothering to comment on it, though, this is the bit that I've never really got.
If you were bothering as a government or the MOD to comment about this thing as an armature of government, why would you make that effort if you were there to downplay it?
In other words, if it was all so insignificant, then why bother even speaking about it at all?
There must have been a policy reason for that.
Yes, there was.
And of course, tied in with your question, why on earth would we have 60,000 documents on a subject of no defense interest?
And why would some of those documents be classified at high levels, such as secret UKIs only?
Now, some of this is because, of course, UFO sightings, some of them turn out to be misidentifications of secret prototype spy planes, drones, that sort of thing.
But I think more generally, there's this idea that governments, of course, like to project power and authority.
No one likes to admit there might be things flying in our airspace, tracked on our radar, seen by our pilots, and we can't identify them.
Government doesn't like to say, we don't know.
So it's not so much that we're hiding spaceships in hangars, to repeat that old cliché.
It's more that it's about government not wanting to say, we don't know.
Are you still bound by the Official Secrets Act?
Absolutely.
It binds me for life.
The fact that I left in 2006 is irrelevant.
The Official Secrets Act is a piece of legislation that you can never escape.
So you have to tread a very fine line here.
And you've been very good.
I mean, you've been very British, and I'm sure the Americans love this, about not particularly expressing much of a view about how things are now.
But you must have feelings about the way things are handled these days and the way reports are collated.
You know, you must feel in your heart that that's kind of sad.
Yes, indeed.
And I made no secret of the fact when the MOD's UFO project was axed in 2009.
I made no secret of the fact I thought that was a mistake.
I thought it was a sad day when we stopped looking at this.
It's an intriguing mystery, whatever we think of it.
And few questions can be bigger and more profound than questions of, are we alone or not in the universe?
And if we can do anything to help get an answer to that question, why on earth wouldn't we want to do that?
Why on earth indeed?
There are people who regularly email me to say you've had Nick Pope on your show.
Why do you bother doing that?
Because this man is a conduit of disinformation.
What's your response to that?
Well, how can I respond?
In a sense, if somebody wants to believe that I'm still secretly on the payroll and that it's all disinformation, misinformation, et cetera, et cetera, me saying to you, well, how are, no, that's not true.
Those people aren't suddenly going to go, oh, thanks, Nick, for clearing that up.
They're going to say, well, he would say that, wouldn't he?
So in one sense, it's a pointless argument to have.
If people want to believe I'm still part of the conspiracy on this as they see it, then that's what they will continue to believe.
Do you believe there are people within the portals of the armed services in this country who perhaps believe in their own hearts that a different line ought to be taken about this?
And if there are things that ought to be known at a deeper level, and I'm not saying that there are, but if there are, we need to be a little more frank and we need to be a little bit more forthcoming.
I'm sure that's true.
When I worked for the Ministry of Defence and I was there for 21 years, of course, only three years on the UFO project.
So much of my government career was spent doing other things.
Ironically, my final posting was in the security policy division.
There were people with a whole range of views, not just on UFOs, of course, but on a wide range of defense issues.
And some people thought, going back to UFOs, that there were believers in the Ministry of Defense, that there were skeptics, and there were people in the middle who didn't know or sometimes did care.
And Nick, those who were believers, did they have reason to believe?
Presumably they did.
Well, some of the most intriguing times I had on this was going to training courses on whatever the subject was, meeting Air Force personnel and invariably swapping stories about your job.
And when they found out that I'd done the UFO job, they would come to me over the coffee and biscuits at break time and say, look, me, you know, I saw this extraordinary thing.
So yes, to answer your question, sometimes those believers in the MOD, in the military, were believers because of things that they had seen and experienced themselves.
Do you believe that we were, as a military division of the UK's operations, do you believe that we were investigating other aspects of these mysterious phenomena like time travel and ways of perhaps going through the universe faster than we currently officially know how to?
Well, you can't run a UFO project without finding yourself the clearinghouse, so to speak, for all manner of other weird and wonderful things.
So we also got reports of alien abductions, crop circles, ghosts on military bases, people who contacted us and believed that they had psychic abilities that they wanted to put at the disposal of British intelligence.
And I'm sure things like exotic propulsion systems and indeed trying to weaponize whatever the UFO phenomenon might turn out to be was something that was looked at.
And indeed, one of the most highly classified and interesting MOD documents on the UFO phenomenon is colloquially known as the Project Condine final report.
And it talks about UFOs perhaps in terms of exotic plasma phenomena.
But it goes on to talk about the weaponization of this.
So yes, there is that side to it too, the spin-off in terms of science and technology, I suppose.
There was always, and I don't expect you to comment on this, but you know the Duke of Edinburgh, with whom I share a birthday, the Duke of Edinburgh, I don't know why I mentioned that, but it's been a factor throughout my life, has stepped down from public duties and he'd been much missed by an awful lot of people.
The word has always been, and I've always been told, that he has an interest in UFOs and things like this.
It is something that has piqued his interest for many, many decades.
Do you know anything about that?
Yes, I do.
And you're right.
This is an area that I can't discuss in great detail.
Obviously, there are huge sensitivities when it comes to the stance of the royal family on this.
But yes, I don't think it's any secret Duke of Edinburgh is indeed interested in UFOs, crop circles, the paranormal more generally.
But of course, that's something that you won't get much public comment on.
But I'm aware of that.
And I am aware that he was one of a number of royals, senior military officers, senior intelligence personnel, and political figures who are interested in this behind the scenes.
I'd love to talk with him about it.
And I know the chances of that are, what do they say, slim to none in the United States.
But, sir, if you are listening tonight, I wish you, number one, a happy retirement.
And I hope you continue to be interested in these phenomena.
You know, Nick, one of these shows I did many years ago when we were on Talk Sport Radio, our sister station, I was told now, Howard, don't worry, but somebody very important is going to be listening to you tonight.
And I had a feeling it was him, but maybe it was just fantasy.
Okay, so that's Nick Pope and the stuff that you have done up to now.
I want to talk about the things that you are currently involved in, of course.
But you mentioned a couple of things.
Let's, before we get to some commercials here and then take it forward, talk about two things that you mentioned to me in terms of collating, being a clearinghouse for all sorts of reports.
Ghosts on military bases.
Now, I've interviewed at least one author who's written a book and done very well out of ghosts on military bases.
They are a phenomenon, aren't they?
Yes, absolutely.
I remember a few years ago, the editor of Focus magazine, the MOD's in-house journal, took a courageous decision to print a letter from a Ministry of Defense police officer who'd seen a ghost while patrolling, I believe it was R.F. Ely.
I may be wrong on that, but at the end of this letter, the editor again took a courageous decision and said, if anyone else has any similar stories, please send them in.
And he was inundated.
It was absolutely fascinating.
And I used to talk to a lot of MOD police officers in my final job in the ministry, not the UFO job, the security policy job.
And it was amazing how many of them had seen things.
Some sightings in MOD main building itself on Whitehall, down by the old Henry VIII wine cellar, which of course is part of the building that dates back hundreds of years.
Okay, now we're having some problems with this connection.
I'm sure my producer Emma would agree.
The Skype is not the best.
It's buffering a little.
You talked about also receiving reports of people who claimed to have psychic abilities that could be of use to the British military in one way or another, to the British government in one way or another.
Now, we know that the Americans and the Russians made extensive use of remote viewers and people like that.
Are we saying that actually we never did?
I don't know whether we had an operational remote viewing, as it's called in government, program, but we certainly did an intelligent study into it, scoping the possibility.
And that was classified secret UKIs only.
But the reason I can talk about it is it was declassified a few years ago.
And although large parts of it are still blacked out, if you Google remote viewing and Ministry of Defense, you should find a 168-page document on the MOD's website, or it might be on the National Archives website now, but it's out there, and yes, we did that.
Nick Pope, man who used to collect UFO reports and other strangeness, as we heard, for the Ministry of Defense, now does an awful lot of other things.
And linked to the stuff that you used to do, Nick, you do a lot of conferences, and I know that you've got a big one coming up.
It was huge last year.
It gets bigger every year.
Contact in the Desert.
That's this month.
Talk to me about that.
Well, Contact in the Desert was described by USA Today as the woodstock of UFOs.
And it really is.
It's quite extraordinary.
It's held at the Joshua Tree Retreat Center in California, literally in the desert.
And it's going to be May 19th through to the 22nd.
And it reads like a who's who of the whole UFO field.
Giorgio Sukolos from Ancient Aliens, George Nouri, Linda Moulton Howe, Jim Mars, myself, many, many more.
And it's great fun.
It's very hot, as you can imagine.
Contact in the desert, the clues in the title.
And the aircon is working full time.
But it's a great experience.
People literally come from all over the world.
We had a British contingent come over in previous years.
And it's interesting and it's fun.
But take plenty of bottled water.
Right.
Well, I'll be warned and advised.
But, you know, I don't want to sound like a bitter old geezer who can't get there.
But is it true that the people who go there, they tell the same stories every single time?
What I'm saying is that there seems to be nothing much that's new in the UFO field.
You know, there are various people who go to conferences and they trot out their stories.
Much the same.
They take questions from the audience, which are sometimes more interesting than the actual story that you may have heard before many times yourself.
Anyway, you know, is there anything new in this field?
Is there anything new under the sun in the desert?
There is, but you're right.
Let me go back to your question.
You're absolutely right.
A lot of people do give the same presentation twice, and that's one of my pet hates.
I personally have had a policy for some time now that any conference I go to, I will deliver a completely new presentation.
And I know others do as well.
Some don't.
You're right.
But I think the way to look at this is I know that some of these conference organizers say that they're modeling themselves on something that you'll find in the scientific community and academia.
Hand on heart, they probably aren't.
A lot of these things are more akin to fan conventions.
But my point is this, if you went to a Star Trek convention and you heard William Shatner tell the same anecdotes that you'd maybe heard a few times before about how the different actors got on, you wouldn't really mind that much.
The point is you're up there, you're hearing Bill Shatner do his stuff, you're having photo and autograph opportunities, you get to hang out with the people, and that's what people really go for.
But there is some new information presented too.
You just have to read the talk abstracts.
It's all on the website and decide what interests you.
Now, there are so many speakers on at this event that sometimes they've got three talks at once.
So there will be, however many of these things you go to, there will be people that you haven't seen before, and there will be presentations that are new.
You're giving a new presentation.
I don't expect you to blow all the details here, but can you give us a taster?
Well, I'm going to give an update on the program to declassify and release the British UFO files.
But I'm also giving what I call what is the title that I've selected for the thing, Inside the Dream Factory, which is going to be what I call this.
It's more the water cooler moments of what it was like working at the MOD, not just on the UFO project, but some of the other jobs too.
So to give people, as it were, a seat at the table, it's going to be a much more personal kind of trot through some of all this, and interactive as well.
Some of the workshops at Contact in the Desert give you the opportunity to, I'm one of these people that believes in giving the audience their say, so I'm going to make mine much more interactive.
And I can do that because it's a much less formal setting, the workshop setting.
If I was there, I'd be drilling down into those water cooler moments.
I would want to know about the days when you received a report and you started to inquire into it.
And you really believed this time we might be onto something and it might be the real deal.
And there must have been days like that.
There were indeed.
Each investigation was new.
Each time you had this sense of where is this going to take me?
And you never knew.
So I know it's one of the great clichés of many jobs where people say, what I like about it is no two days were ever the same.
I can say with hand on heart that abide to my time on the UFO project.
One time you might get a report from a pilot.
Next day you might get a letter from a class of school children doing a project on this.
Next moment, drop everything that the subject's been raised in Parliament and the Secretary of State needs some lines to take on all this.
You never knew.
And when you were writing, did you write briefings for ministers?
For the Secretary of State?
Yes, absolutely.
Yes, all the time.
We had, I would do drafts for the Secretary of State for Defence and indeed other defence ministers to send to other members of parliament when the question was raised in the Commons or the Lords.
Sometimes it would be just straightforward letters back to MPs or to constituents.
Other times it would be if the media contacted us via the press office and again we'd have to come out with key messages and defensive lines to take where we'd have to anticipate what questions might get asked as follow-ups and that was always quite interesting.
It makes me wonder why would you want to take a defensive line though?
You know why if this is it's a fairly neutral subject unless of course you know they really are observing our earth and there's more to all of this than meets the eye and perhaps there is some kind of collusion between government and alien species and all the rest of it that so many people talk about.
I wonder why you would want to take a defensive line.
Well, I think it goes back to what I was saying about embarrassment, but I think, you know, there's a natural defensiveness in government anyway, right across the board.
I think the other thing is that to a lot of us at the time, people forget how recent, really, in comparative terms, the UK's Freedom of Information Act was.
For us working in the MOD, when I had the UFO job in the 90s, this was before the Freedom of Information Act was brought in.
It was a totally different culture.
It was a different world.
The default position was say nothing.
And the MOD was among the most secretive of government departments for obvious reasons.
Which makes me wonder.
I wonder, have I asked you this before?
I don't think so.
Why did they employ somebody like you to do that job?
If they were so secretive and so defensive, why have somebody like you whose specific remit was to collate all of this and write briefings for ministers and answer questions?
Well, at the time I was doing it, there was really no expectation it would be made public.
I think a lot of us did this firm in the belief that if these files ever were released, It would be under the old 30-year rule and we'd be long since retired.
So, all this work we were doing, whether it was ministerial briefings or the investigations themselves, we never really thought it would see the light of day.
Nick Pope, and I'll put a link to his work on my website, theunexplained.tv.
Thank you very much for being part of this show.
More guests exclusive to the podcast coming soon here at The Unexplained.
Please get in touch with me.
Tell me who you are, where you are, and how you use the show.
And if you have a guest suggestion to make or any thoughts about the show, you know that I'm always really pleased to hear from you.
So, until next we meet here at The Unexplained, my name is Howard Hughes.
I am in London, and please stay safe.
Please stay calm.
And above all, please stay in touch.
Take care.
Thanks.
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