All Episodes
Previous Next
July 23, 2016 - The Unexplained - Howard Hughes
01:01:30
Edition 261 - Chris Geratano

*LISTENER CAUTION ADVISED* Film-maker Chris Geratano on the Montauk Project...

| Copy link to current segment

Time Text
The following program contains themes some listeners may find disturbing.
Listener caution is advised.
Across the UK, across continental North America, and around the world on the internet, by webcast and by podcast, my name is Howard Hughes, and this is The Unexplained.
Now, what you're about to hear has turned out to be a very different edition of the show.
Not the kind of territory we've usually gone into.
What you're about to hear, I think, is disturbing in many, many ways.
So if you are disturbed by the disturbing, then please think twice about listening to this.
But it is material that has aired on radio in the United States and been intensively publicized, so I'm not the first by any means to talk about this.
Some big organizations have told this story.
Whether any of it turns out to be true or not, well, I don't know.
And that goes for a lot of the material you hear on this show and on shows like it.
We're going to be talking about the Montauk project.
Now, this in itself is deeply controversial, but I don't know.
Can I sum it up by saying that it's to do with a series of projects where people were taken against their will, in many cases, to be used in experiments.
The nature of the experiments involved such things as contact with aliens and time travel and the effects of electromagnetism, which all stemmed from the original Philadelphia experiment that we have talked about on this show.
But as I've discovered, and as those who've discovered this material before, there is a lot more to what happened after the Philadelphia experiment that went on allegedly for decades afterwards and involved some very murky practices by some staggeringly murky people.
Now, there will be a lot of people, and they do, who claim on the internet that this is all garbage.
But a man called Chris Geritano has made a film about this, talking to some of the people who say that they know about what went on in all of this.
Now, I have to tell you that this is, I don't think, listening for kids, and this is stuff that we do on the internet.
And please, caution, advised, if you listen to this, Chris Geritano has appeared in America on shows like Coast to Coast AM.
You will see references to him and his work online.
But I was not prepared for the material that we are about to go into here.
And I am as disturbed, as concerned, as I think Chris is himself, as you will hear in the conversation.
So let's hear this conversation.
We're going to be talking about Chris Geratano's movie, The Montauk Chronicles.
And let's hear that conversation now here on The Unexplained.
No shout-outs on this edition, by the way.
We'll do that in a future edition.
I was going to do some, but I don't think they're appropriate on this particular edition, so I'll do them next time.
So here's Chris Geritano.
Now, Chris, thanks to Roger Sanders in California for once again bridging the gap between the two of us and setting this up to do.
Fill in some blanks for me.
How do you describe yourself?
What are you?
I am someone who I think I just am sensitive to the things that are going on in the world.
I'm someone who loves cinema and film history, and I love art and music and all things connected to that.
And I'm well aware that I'm not going to live forever.
So I'm trying to get the best out of my life while I'm here.
And a good deal of that is time invested into being learning how to express myself through motion picture filmmaking.
And I've spent a good deal of my life doing that.
And so.
We're going to be talking about your movie, The Montauk Chronicles, here, which I know that you're trying very much to promote in the UK.
I've heard nothing about it until very recently.
In fact, I didn't know anything about the history of the Philadelphia experiment after Al Beerlik and the story that he tells about the Eldridge.
It really passed me by.
I'd heard a few things, but didn't know a great deal.
And I've been online, I've done a little bit of research, and there is massive talk.
It's all in the realms of conspiracy theory, and a lot of people debunk it, and I'm sure you know this, about what happened afterwards and how that work was continued.
So I'm guessing that's your starting point, is it?
Well, yes.
Again, my perspective is slightly different than I've noticed many other people who are tackling conspiratorial mysteries or paranormal mysteries.
I went in with a bit of skepticism, very healthy skepticism, not cynical.
And so I approached it from the perspective of somebody who is going to listen and be very polite and record a man's story and do my best not to thrust any particular opinion upon the audience, but allow the audience to listen as I did and experience as I did, draw their own conclusion.
And that's really the foundation that I began with.
That's what I started my movie, Montauk Chronicles, with.
Are we talking about Al Bielick and his story?
Yes, Al Bielick was the very first interview.
I had made two motion pictures called Montauk Chronicles, one of which that's out in the world right now and another that I started in 06 and then started all over again because I wasn't happy with it in 2013.
So Alfred Bielick is a man who has claimed many things.
Okay.
And I don't need tangible evidence for every little thing that every person says, but there needs to be something more than just the story for me to consider it as 100% truth.
And I think that's a healthy way to be.
I believe there are a lot of people today that hear these stories and immediately just agree with them without any evidence or any credibility attached or any additional witnesses.
And I think that's dangerous.
I think it's a dangerous time because there are many people right now, especially out in the world of the internet, that are just making these honestly, in some cases, just unbelievable claims.
Some of these people are saying they've had lunch with George Washington, they traveled to different planets, they've walked.
And this is very possible.
But again, I can't believe a man just because he says so.
I need to hear more.
I need to hear more details.
Even if there are details in a story, it's very important.
Well, that's very refreshing doing the show that I do.
Quite often you get people who make outlandish claims.
And then I get very unpopular with some of my listeners by challenging those claims quite aggressively just to get more information out of them.
Now, let's take specifically here your starting point.
And my starting point, Al Bierlik.
Now, I spoke with Al Bierlik in 2005, 2006 on my original Radio Unexplained show.
We did a long show.
It was missing until very recently when somebody sent me a copy of it that had come off AM radio.
I've now got a studio quality copy of this Al Bierlik interview.
And he told the story, for those who are not aware of this, of what I called the time-shifting Philadelphia experiment.
It wasn't meant to be.
The U.S. military, weren't they?
We were experimenting with invisibility.
They were trying to cloak an entire ship, the Eldridge, back in 1943.
But things went awry, and that's how the time traveling started.
I mean, that's compressing the story enormously.
Yes, Alfred did say he was on the USS Eldridge, but, and I'm sure he told you this as well, because he told me, that he wasn't Al Belick.
He was somebody else.
Well, he said that in later years, things were getting too hot, and the powers that be decided to change his identity, and I think give him a bit of plastic surgery as well.
Oh, I believe he told me he was reborn.
Okay, all right.
He wasn't the same being.
Well, maybe I'm just misremembering the details there, but he was recreated anyway.
Yes, recreated, yes, with extraterrestrial technology.
See, these are the things I was told.
And again, I'm not denying their possibilities, but I take every moment with a word of caution.
The afternoon that I sat with Al Bielik, I went to Fort Myers, Florida, which was his residence in 2006.
And at that time, I went in fresh with a clean slate.
That was my intention because I didn't want to fill my head with too much of all of the things that have been written in these books.
I felt they were quite biased.
I did read one of them, but I felt I would get the most out of it if I went personally to interview him and start fresh and ask what his story was, and he would tell me.
And so my motion picture is that.
It's an independent investigation.
It was my own investigation that I spent quite some time on.
And I wanted to get the stories directly from these gentlemen and go to their homes and not be so intrusive.
I wasn't interested in intimidating them with a crew of 10 or 5.
I would usually show up by myself or with one of other gentlemen to help me.
And that's how I started because that, in that way, you're not intimidating.
They open up.
They're in their home.
It's comfortable.
It depends on how you speak with them too, because if you're telling them how to sit and how to speak and how to look, again, they're going to be uncomfortable and they're not going to give you the best stuff.
And so that was my approach to Alfred Buelick, Stuart Swerdlaw, and Preston Nichols, who all claim they were part of a clandestine operation between 1971 and 1983.
Yes, they say they were part of many other things.
But particularly, my motion picture is about this so-called Montauk project.
Which I want to get onto, but I just want to dwell for a second here on Al Bielik, because the man fascinated me.
I heard him tell his story about certainly the Philadelphia experiment many times.
I heard him on Art Bell's show Coast to Coast AM years ago.
I heard him on various shows.
And the one thing that always impressed me about him, and maybe it impressed you too, was that his story was always consistent.
It did not change.
Now, people who tell lies, who embellish, their story wavers.
They don't even know they're doing it.
Now, Al Beerlich was remarkable.
This just may mean that he was very well trained in telling his story, but he never wavered.
I believe Al was a bit of an independent historian.
He certainly is well read.
He read many things.
A while back, he was on a program on television here in the States, and he wasn't listed as Al Bielick, the man who survived the Philadelphia experiment.
He had a lower third underneath his name as a man who studied the Philadelphia experiment.
So I felt that to be a little strange.
And I'm not denying his claims.
I'm just saying that he's a man who, just like the other gentlemen that say they were part of the Montauk project or many of these other things, they have a lot of research under their belt.
They read a lot.
And so a lot of this information is derived from their research.
But in terms of the Philadelphia experiment, Al said, I was there.
I was part of this.
And he was most insistent.
Yes, and he said his name was Ed Cameron, and he was a different being at that time.
And again, I'm not denying his claims, but what we have to go on on that particular claim is just that.
It's his story.
And so what I'm trying to tell you is, so we don't have any tangible evidence on that.
And we don't have any pictures, and we don't have any film, and we don't have any other witnesses outside of Duncan Cameron, who also claims he was the brother of Al Buelik in another body.
So what we have is his story, his voice inflection, his facial expression, his body language.
And for you to analyze that, and again, I don't think it's a crime for your listeners.
It certainly isn't a crime to challenge these stories because it's respect for the man himself and it's respect for you, the audience, I feel.
It's more respectful to try and challenge it, not in an amazing Randy, type way where he really is trying to debunk everything.
But in such a way where it's respectful enough for the audience to at least give this some credence, try and find something to go on.
And that has been my approach to this investigation since day one.
And I think it's a great approach.
The one point where Al Bielik's Philadelphia experiment story fell down a little for me, the rest of it I found very compelling.
But of course, with the benefit of hindsight, he claimed that he'd seen in the future that we were going to have enormous problems on Earth, some climate issues, various other calamities.
Around about, if my memory serves me well, 2010.
Well, of course, 2010 came and went, and we are all still here.
Yes, Alfred told me the same things.
He said Florida in the U.S. would be underwater by now and, you know, great cataclysms.
And so, okay, these things haven't exactly happened yet yet.
There's civil unrest over here in this, all over the world, actually.
But I think in a way, that's always has been the case in one way or another.
So again, those stories aren't clarifying for me that he is some kind of sage or prophet.
What I was really, truly listening to closely and what I believe were the stories of human subjects being taken against their will and brought into secret programs.
Now, that is where the story of Montauk continues, isn't it?
Those of us who researched as far as the Philadelphia experiment, we maybe left it at that point.
But as you say, this thing was picked up again and continued and developed in a clandestine way, it is claimed.
Yes, it is.
Yes, it is.
Many people say, well, for quite some time, it was only Alfred Bielick, Stuart Swerdlow, and Preston Nichols and Duncan Cameron.
Those were the men that really were putting this story out there for quite some time.
And then, you know, we flash forward to right now.
Currently, there are a lot of people that claim they were part of it.
So Alfred, in 2006, I sat with him.
He told me so many things.
He told me about the Philadelphia experiment.
He told me everything from everything in the occult and in witchcraft and just about everything I learned in science fiction to be real.
He said all of it is real.
Plus, he also said that ancient folklore and horrific things like vampires, they're all real as well.
So it was quite a lot to take in in one afternoon.
How did he know those things?
Well, he claims that he had been exposed to these things since he was a child.
At one point, I said to him, what was your first, what was the first thing that you, the first day or first time that you realized there was something strange about yourself?
And I think he understood, you know, maybe it was a vague question, but he understood what I was getting at.
And he said, well, I think when I was a child, I would go to the cellar of my grandmother's and I would read the papers, you know, the funny papers, the comic strip.
And he said he started to realize there were things there in the basement that shouldn't have been there.
Now, that was strange for a man to say.
You know, it was an odd moment, but there were many odd moments in the conversation.
Once again, I always stayed respectful, always kept an open mind to the things this man was telling me.
And we live in really strange times.
From the time that I started making this motion picture to now, it seems there's the line between fantasy and reality is completely blurred.
It's breached.
There's so many people right now saying so many things that I guess when I was a kid, they were segregated into fiction and science fiction, or at least paranormal mysteries.
And then there was reality.
Well, now reality and all of these other things are mixed.
I mean, in mainstream media even, you know, everything is just mixed.
It's quite confusing.
So I just feel like we need to have a higher bar when it comes to evidence or credibility when researching these things.
And I did find some significant credibility and things that Alfred Bielich was saying.
Not everything.
I can't say, I won't sit here and say that I believe everything the man said, or I can confirm, at the very least, confirm everything the man said, because I won't do that.
I can't do that.
I have to try and set a new standard.
Chris, let me just read to you something that I got from an admittedly skeptical website, but they've got quite a nice little write-up on this, much of which I'm sure you would disagree with.
However, it says here, according to the legend, quote, sometime in the 50s, surviving researchers from Project Rainbow began to discuss the project with an eye to continuing the research into technical aspects of manipulating the electromagnetic bottle that had been used to make the Eldridge invisible and the reasons and possible military applications of the psychological effects of a magnetic field.
That's the starting point for all of this clandestine stuff, isn't it?
That's one of them.
Again, because then we have Paperclip, Project Paperclip, and all of the Nazi scientists that were brought over after World War II.
And so they were apparently a great deal of some of these other programs, especially the mind control and torture programs.
So I, you know, there's so many different things.
Again, the man had all of these men told me so many different elements that sometimes they contradict each other.
So I can't tell you exactly where it started.
I can tell you what Al told me.
Because as you know, every time you try and reach deeper for the evidence in some of these things, it's not to be found.
Some things have been proven, though, such as the MKUltra experiments, such as the Tuskegee experiments, which are, in my opinion, just as horrible and bizarre and covert and sinister as anything I've read in the Montauk Project, you know, Sand's the alien stuff and the time travel stuff.
But, you know, if you look further into parallel universes or quantum physics or all of these things, which I did after I started, and again, I'm not a scientist, I'm an independent filmmaker and a researcher.
So I felt maybe I had the best stance on this, a neutral place where I had an open mind and I wanted to find things out slowly.
And I wanted to, you know, like an archaeologist start slowly digging through this thing and carefully, because the majority of people who read this material automatically, automatically either side with it or automatically completely dismiss it.
So I didn't want to fall in either of those categories.
I really wanted to keep an open mind, but I would never declare that something is 100% true until I had solid, tangible proof, or at the very least, a series of very credible witnesses.
And in my opinion, a credible witness is somebody who has something to lose.
Someone who works in the government, someone who is an official, someone who has something to lose, who is challenged by revealing this information.
Right.
As you say, Montauk project is an umbrella term, isn't it, that encompasses a lot of things.
What we know about World War II is that the Nazis did experiments on prisoners, some terrible things that went against every convention and they were only revealed after the war.
What the conspiracy theorists at Inverted Commas, the people who write stuff online, claim, is that people were abducted off the street and put through experiments of various kinds.
Is that what you were told about?
Yes, very much.
And this is the very believable aspect of this because it has been done in other various programs.
So what I was told by Alfred Bielick, Stewart's word, Low Press and Nichols, and I also spoke with Duncan Cameron on the phone, but he is not in my picture, is that between 1971 and 1983, there were human subjects needed for a program that was occurring deep beneath the Brookhaven Labs.
And this was in the eastern tip of Long Island.
And then the very furthest eastern tip of Long Island was a place called Camp Hero in a town called Montauk.
It's an Air Force base.
But deep beneath the base, allegedly, there's a facility where they were capturing the people who were running this program, were capturing human subjects off the street, mostly runaway boys, teenage boys,
and bringing them into this, this is by the thousands and bringing them in a 13-year period into this base for a variety of experiments that included mind control experiments, which these young boys were being injected with highly experimental and intense amounts of psychedelic drugs to confuse their minds,
to fracture their brains in a very brutal program that required them to be beaten, at times to be even worse, raped, and extreme amounts of trauma would be put up on the boys.
So that part of their brains would be fractured.
And the programming would be implanted at that moment in time where they were brought to a place of extreme fear and trauma.
This has been explained to me by Preston Nichols.
So that later on they wouldn't, psychologically, it would be so embedded deep in that horrible place in their brain, they wouldn't be able to find it.
And then later on, a series of triggering words would be used.
So they would be used as Manchurian-type assassins.
This was also meant to heighten their psychic abilities in ways.
They were put through psychic training like remote viewing.
And it's weird because all of these little elements later on, after researching, you find that there's some credibility to these things in different pieces.
And if you believe or you can prove that it happened in one place, then rest assured, if other people are talking about it and saying it happened somewhere else, I would say, yes, you know, this is something to look into.
So it's that type of thing that I really focused on the most.
Second to that, Alfred Bielek claimed that the boys were also used as, you know, kind of like Sputnik.
They were the dog or the monkey being used to be either shot out into space, but in this case, it was shot out into a biorhythmic program that would either transport them to another planet, another dimension, or another time.
And so there was a time travel program.
And according to Alfred and Preston, the technology used here was given to us by extraterrestrials.
Once again, where is the proof of this?
I don't know.
Well, is there any kind of paper trail, Chris?
Is there any kind of documentation about any aspect of this?
After all of this time.
First of all, that was one of my first questions, Alfred in 2006.
What he said was, yeah, there's a record, but there's no way you're going to get your hands on it.
Of course, they're going to be guarding this respectively, and it's not going to be available to the public, of course.
He said they were not going to be letting this go public.
Who were the they?
The proprietors of the black operation, the shadow governments, these factions that actually were referred to by Bill Clinton in the 90s when he was sort of half apologizing for the Tuskegee medical experiments and so-called radiation experiments.
But at the same time, there was a congressional hearing and a woman named Christy Nicola had come out and said, no, these weren't just radiation experiments.
These were, and everything, every detail that she put forward after that was synonymous and tantamount to the things that are said to have happened in the Montauk Project.
And so this was a serious congressional hearing.
And this is why I believe a lot of things truly did happen there.
Now, if people were being abducted off the streets, young people, and put through illegal practices of this kind, disgusting procedures of one sort and another, you know, Everybody has a family somewhere.
Wouldn't there be legions of whistleblowers?
I don't know about that because these were runaway children already missing.
This was the 1970s.
We did not have the rapid-fire informational highway as we do now, the internet.
So I think it was much easier for people to disappear and vanish off the face of the earth.
And the only way you're going to really know that for sure is if you do the research and you, it's astonishing how many people go missing, just in the United States.
Well, that's true.
You know that there are researchers of missing persons cases, and you would be astonished at the number of people who simply, I didn't believe it until I started reading about it, the number of people who in history decades ago and right up to today just disappear.
Just disappeared.
And again, I think part of it is people don't want to believe that this is true.
That's a big part of it.
And that's why it's so hard to believe.
But unfortunately, once you start doing your research and you do realize that there are some nefarious elements running the show, you know, running the world, that's where the anxiety comes into play because you start to realize, wait a second, we're not, the good guys aren't running the show, okay?
It's not happening.
It's very much the opposite.
It's a very cold way of thinking, a very selfish way of thinking for the purposes of maintaining whatever they have or advancements in science or gaining power and control.
It's all about their control of money.
And you hear talk of that kind of coldness, that kind of callousness in conspiracy theories and from conspiracy theorists from everything from 9-11 to the global conspiracy governments behind the governments that a lot of people talk about.
So it's not unfamiliar, that aspect of it, I guess.
The people that you talked with, how closely connected with this were they?
Because they got their knowledge from somewhere.
Oh, no, each of the gentlemen that I spoke with said that they were very much part of this program, each of them having a different job.
Alfred Belick's job, so he claims, was to basically help the boys after they had survived the programming.
He seemed to have a more of a better position, a less brutal position to help them, to help bring them back, to test their psychic abilities.
And he even claims that he made a suggestion to one of the program directors, Jack Pruitt, to make the program less inhumane and pay the kids.
So what Alfred said, eventually the ones that did survive the program were these kind of higher-ups in society, these well-paid agents, as opposed to boys being kidnapped and beaten and used as these kind of expendable subjects.
And did he have any qualms of conscience about this?
You know, the morality of this is, well, I don't even have a word for it.
He must have had some thoughts about it.
Was he having nightmares about this?
He was involved.
He was connected.
Al didn't express that.
He seemed to have a very logical, you know, Mr. Spock-like way about him.
Preston, on the other hand, is certainly at conflict with it.
And in my picture, I did challenge him on these things and he gets very upset.
You could see he's very upset.
There's something genuine about him being challenged about this.
It doesn't seem fake to me.
It seems very genuine.
So if you look at him and I ask the audience, please watch him when I'm asking these questions.
He's very disturbed by it.
And he also has, it's strange because he says, there's nothing I can do about it.
My life was threatened.
I was forced to do this.
But on the other hand, we're talking about a man who is a loner, who is obsessed with technology.
And so this isolated kind of hermetic type man who loves science fiction, okay, loves technology, is offered this opportunity to work with perhaps extraterrestrial technology and a secret government program.
This is that man's dream come true.
So in a way, and he did express this to me, and he said, well, if I had the opportunity to go back, I would do it right now.
Well, that's saying I would go back and be part of this thing that was murdering hundreds of thousands of children.
I find that extremely disturbing.
And, you know, if there was...
You know what I'm talking about, somebody official.
Yes.
Yes, of course.
No, and I suggest this to even the people, because there are many people now who claim they are victims.
And what I don't understand is why are they going to conventions and starting podcasts as opposed to, and I just, this is the victims, as opposed to doing what Christy Nicola did in 1995 and the other ladies and gentlemen that claim they were part of these programs and approach their government about it.
And again, even if the government's, first of all, they did get reparations for it and they get, they received recognition for it.
But if you're not going to do anything like that about it, it's very questionable because basically if all your intention is to write a book, sell a book, you know, my job, I'm a filmmaker, so I can do those things.
I'm not claiming to be a victim of these programs.
But if your only thing is to just go out and make money and get on television, it's questionable in my opinion.
Very questionable to sell a book or sell a book.
It's questionable that just the journalist in me makes me wonder, how do you feel about having done this documentary when it's such an unpalatable, unpleasant, nasty, disgusting thing?
Whatever scientific name it may have been done in, whatever shadow government's name it might have been done in, you know, nothing, nothing, nothing would excuse the kind of conduct we're talking about.
I'm not even sure whether I would have wanted to go there as a subject area.
Yes, well, this is something I learned along the way.
Again, I try and, you know, show the contrast between my childhood and how much I loved paranormal mysteries and, in all honesty, how much fun they were and how wonderful it was to read those books as a kid and even later on.
But then when you get to the Montauk Project, it is very different.
Even the way it is today, there seems to be so much negativity attached to these things and anger and betrayal, things that weren't attached to the mysteries that I enjoyed and even still enjoy now.
So this is a very different thing.
If you're going to believe in any of this, you must believe that a good deal of your life is a lie, that it's being controlled by a very nefarious group of people.
And so this is not your typical alien abduction story, and this is not your typical paranormal mystery.
This is something very different.
Now, because of the subject matter we're talking about, and I know that you're a sincere filmmaker and a questter after truth.
I'm not aware because I haven't looked.
How has the U.S. media treated you?
Have you been able to get coverage about this?
Have you done interviews?
Have you been on shows?
Oh, yes.
Yeah.
Well, it's really weird.
I'll explain this the best way I can.
So one of the first major news outfits that contacted me, and this is before or just as the first picture was being finished, was Huffington Post AOL, which is pretty well known.
And they did a report and an interview with me in New York City about what I was doing.
And that, I think, gave it a lot of exposure.
Normally, it wouldn't have.
And then later on, I started getting contacted by networks, television networks, who one way or another wanted to either pick my brain in their words or have me on their show.
And so, lo and behold, we flash forward to now.
I've kept it independent by choice.
I've had a lot of offers for distribution in the States and abroad and other different countries in the world definitely want to put it out.
I've kept it close to me for good reasons.
I worked very hard to make it.
And a lot of these distribution companies take a lion's share of your profits and do very little work.
So that's why it's still an independent release.
In the other end of it, I have been for the past year developing a network show as a spin-off of what I accomplished in the film.
And so, yeah, they are certainly giving attention to it.
And on the very end of this explanation, there is a very popular show on Netflix right now called Stranger Things that was pitched and sold to Netflix as Montauk.
And that was after my picture, the only picture about the Montauk project, was getting attention.
The trailers were out there and many thousands of people saw them and television networks were contacting me.
So these gentlemen probably were partially inspired by the things they saw me do and other people, you know, there's a lot of other men.
Of course, we haven't got them to speak to.
And, you know, I hear what you say is what I think I can say about that.
Right.
Well, but it is so disturbing.
There's a record on the internet.
You can see it.
So you're saying that this disturbing subject matter, that the U.S. networks have been interested in this and have taken it forward.
And you've had interviews on mainstream TV.
Yes.
Well, I have a mainstream TV show that was just greenlit by a network based on this exact thing.
Yes.
Why?
It's a part.
I mean, if any of it is true, it can't be just left, can it?
You know, we are beginning to open the lid on various unsavory aspects of the past in this country.
This is something that surely cannot just be left in a can of film as a documentary.
Are lawmakers there taking an interest in this?
Any U.S. lawmakers today taking an interest in this?
Not yet.
Here's the thing.
What's happening is, because of the, and just like in my picture, again, I was trying to faithfully adapt the stories from the gentleman that I interviewed.
Now, it's not just the boys being kidnapped, but there's this great element of science fiction, okay, as we know it, in the story.
So when you mix those things, just like the television show Stranger Things, it's very science fiction and horror-oriented.
You can compare it to many science fiction stories, you know, over 100 years ago written.
So, you know, H.G. Wells and people like that.
It's like, you know, these things go way back.
So again, unless it was just about the Montauk boy program, where the boys were being kidnapped and murdered, right now it's considered entertainment until victims come out in number, more than one or two, and try and approach the government about it.
Until that happens, it's going to be stuck in the realm of science fiction.
So you're saying that a partial truth through science fiction has come out, but the awful, deep, dark, and appalling secret of this hasn't yet had the publicity that it deserves, you would say.
Yes, it's going to require either a complete and total denial of or to prove any of the aspects outside of the boys being kidnapped and used inside the government program.
Remember, this is all attached to alien beings, hybrid creatures designed in labs, time travel, interdimensional travel, interstellar travel through alien technology.
All of these things are mixed into this story.
And so either right now, all of these things have to be 100% denied or declared as hallucination on the part of the victims or survivors or participants, or it's going to remain in this realm until we can prove all of that technology.
And if these things really did happen, and I believe they did to an extent, this is their way of concealing it.
There's a big tell, there'll be movies about this, much, much bigger than I made.
I'm an independent picture maker, but there'll be great, greatly financed motion pictures in Hollywood about this very project.
And they will retain all of the alien stuff, all of the time travel stuff.
And again, that's how you confuse the public.
The other thing is, though, many people are waking up and they're starting to consider these things as real.
So I think that's shaking the system a bit where for so many years, perhaps, and again, this is suggested to me by Alfred Bielek, that these things are put in motion pictures and literature on purpose to confuse us, to make us identify with these things as fiction, as science fiction.
What, in a way to kind of purge them, to purify these disgusting secrets?
Is that so?
Or conceal them, yeah, for sure.
Okay.
I mean, look, I find this, the dark aspects of this extremely disturbing, you know, over here, and I'm sure over there too, and we would call this crime, abuse, murder.
Oh, yes.
An atrocious crime that needs to, whoever was part of it needs to be punished.
And in the course of doing the research, have you contacted any of the authorities, the police, et cetera, to talk about these things?
I mean, I understand it's difficult because all you have are largely unsubstantiated stories.
You don't even have names, documentation of missing people who may have been involved in this.
So you wouldn't have much to go on.
So I'm guessing that most, look, my dad was a policeman.
You know, police want to see a little bit of evidence before they do anything.
Correct.
Correct.
And I do.
And again, as you know that, without having to go and approach them, I just felt wasting my time approaching anybody without anything significant was a waste of film and time.
You know, we only have so many minutes.
I have a two-hour picture, tell a 13-year story.
And just to show the audience, hey, look at me, I went over to a government official just so they can tell me I'm crazy or please go away.
I just felt like that was, that's TV stuff.
They do that on television, every episode of these conspiracy shows.
It's done all the time.
So I think what we need are credible witnesses, much like the people who were approaching Congress in the United States in 1995, like Christina Kohla, like those other people, which I do show in my picture.
And if people really want to make something happen, that's what has to happen.
And I think eventually it will happen.
See, what you're witnessing is the very beginning.
The very beginning is this first put forward as a paranormal mystery to get people to understand what was told over the years.
Then the next stage is to consider the possibilities.
Were these things hallucinations?
Were they real?
How many of these things are actually true?
What was fabricated in the early book to sell books?
You know, because I believe that some things, I read that book, it's a very small book in many ways.
And some of the things in the book, I truly believe, were put in there by the publisher to sell books.
I don't believe that Alfred Bielick and Preston Nichols, that was the full story.
And I think the full story is really focused on that boy program, on those boys being kidnapped and used for mind control programs, which I believe are being used right now.
And if you look at the ungodly amount of random, so-called random shooters around the world and in the United States, something is very strange.
Something doesn't make any sense.
It's just not right.
You can't just say it's all coincidental or they're copycats.
Well, I mean, that is deep, deep, deep into the realms of conspiracy theory.
You know, in anything like this, when people are drafted into a program against their will, quite often people escape.
They get away from these things.
They're people who've run away, whatever.
I'm surprised that nobody's come to you and said, look, here I am.
I was part of this.
It wasn't anything I wanted to be part of.
They took me off the street and I was put through this electromagnetic experiment and that time shifting experiment.
Nobody's done that, have they?
No, actually they have.
I've had quite a few.
And one of them, in addition to the gentleman that I've been speaking about, is in the motion picture.
He's using a fake name.
James Bruce is the name he gave.
But I know who he is.
I know that he was in the U.S. military.
I know that he's a family man and he has a job.
He insisted that his identity be concealed.
And he contacted me very late in the game.
Remember, I made two pictures.
He contacted me while I was almost finished with the second.
And I put the second, its completion on hold for almost a year to incorporate him into the film because there was something about him.
I read a passage in a story once where someone was being described as truthful because of the way they told the tale.
It didn't seem inherently their information.
It seemed like for certain that they witnessed something and that there's something very genuine about the person.
And I felt this, this is exactly how I felt about James Bruce.
I forgot the book, but there was something very genuine about him.
It's as if he didn't make these things up and didn't read them somewhere and almost was incapable of doing it.
So he was recalling things and very different than the other gentleman in the picture.
And you'll see him in the movie.
So he claims that it all started in his kindergarten classes and that the principal of the school was involved and that they would take certain kids out of class.
Now, I can confirm this personally.
When I was in kindergarten in first grade, there were people That showed up with the teachers and said, We are removing the gifted children from class.
Those were the words they used.
And so they took several kids out of class and brought them into a different room.
And James Bruce is, I'm 40 years old.
He's a little bit older than me, but this was being done.
And I asked some younger people that I know if they went through this as well.
And they said, no, nothing like that happened.
So I think this is, and this was also done during the time of the so-called alleged Montauk project.
So I believe him.
I believe that these things happen.
And he tells many tales and a lot of which are in the picture.
But I'm hoping and I'm encouraging him to be part of this program we're making for television.
And he can tell the story further, but he seems to be most affected by it, to tell you the truth.
I think he really did go through something.
Did any of that involve aliens and time travel, the things we've been talking about?
Yes, he does say that, interstellar travel, time travel.
He saw many of the aliens.
But remember, these children were injected, mainline injected, with heavy hallucinatory drugs.
And so, and I'm just saying this is offering this as one possibility.
I do believe in extraterrestrial life, by the way, and technology, wholeheartedly, but I don't know if it was part of this program.
So is it possible?
This is a question, is it possible that these children were given just such heavy doses of these drugs and that the alien stuff and the monsters that they claim to have seen were brought on by hallucinations, definitely encouraged by the people who were conducting the program?
If so, these children grow up and ever try and tell this tale, they will be seen as insane, as mad, for telling this story.
Of course, anything like this is a beacon for fantasists and people who want to make a headline for themselves.
So it must be very hard for you to distinguish between people who are embellishing on stuff that's already out there that you can read on the internet and people who really went through it.
It's very difficult, especially now.
I was recently contacted by several people who claimed they were, and I'm sure you've heard this term many times, super soldiers.
Super soldiers being used.
And it's very similar to what James Bruce claims because he was also claims to have been one of those people.
A super soldier, I guess, is the graduation of the Montoc boy or girl.
You know, they put through these programs, their psychic abilities are heightened, they're put through all the exercises and then later used as assassins or spies or Manchurian type assassins.
And again, there's so many things happening in our societies right now that I think if you were to believe that these earlier programs are true, well, this perhaps is the result.
You know, what's happening right now is the result.
This is why they were designing or one of the reasons or some of the reasons why they were designing it.
If you read stuff online, and I read a little bit online about all of this, and it's all different, it all varies, but some of it claims that a large number of people were involved in implementing all of this.
So the question to be asked is, where are all of those people now?
Because some of them will have very guilty secrets, won't they?
Maybe.
I have lately I've spoken to a woman who heard me on the show Coast to Coast AM, and she's not, doesn't seem to be a conspiracy theorist at all.
She just recognized something.
She was listening to the show.
A lot of people do.
And she claims, and I'm going to try, and I can't reveal all of this in detail, so I'm being vague on purpose, but she, no, she certainly was working for a major company in the United States and claims that this company funded the Montauk project.
She has some of the best information and evidence, in my opinion, that what she's saying is true.
You know, as you know, there's a difference between someone who is telling you a lie and you say, yes, they can tell the same story over and over again.
That's one of the things.
But if they had intentionally practiced the story, then it's very possible that they are, this was an orchestrated lie, you know, not just someone who was part of a murder and is being interrogated by police to tell the story over and over again.
So in her case, she has so many minute details that, in my opinion, this is not a lie.
This is very true.
And she can also prove that she worked for this company.
And she has something to lose.
You know, she has a lot to lose.
Why hasn't she, if she knew these details, why had she not done anything?
I suppose I should be asking her if I could, but why had she not done anything about this before now?
Well, she has something to lose.
She has, you know, you work for a company for a very long time.
You're being taken care of by a pension and she's worried that she might lose it.
Okay.
Well, you know, some things are bigger than all of that, aren't they?
I mean, there's a thing called the greater good.
That's why she's participating to the best of her ability, but I can't say much more at this time.
I don't know if she's going to come out or she might.
She might.
I know she's participating in what we're doing next, but she might want her voice and face concealed.
If I were you, I would feel a massive weight of, I won't say worry, yes, I will say worry, a massive weight of worry and responsibility on my shoulders, because if this is so, then it is almost incumbent on you to get more information about it and make sure something is done about it.
It can't be left, can it?
No, it cannot.
And that's how I feel.
And I get very frustrated because there are certain people out there really just benefiting from this information and taking advantage of listeners.
And I do feel a bit of a responsibility to just stay on my path.
And this is why I refuse to just go along with everything that everybody's saying all the time and agree.
And I mean, I could easily just give you all the information that everybody wants to hear.
I know it.
I sat with Al Bielik.
I spent many years making these movies.
So I know all the stories and I know all the details.
But I find it difficult to just be that way when that's, I think, part of the problem.
Because we just keep repeating stories that these gentlemen told without further investigating or trying to find out what really happened.
And so I find that to be my responsibility because I've spent so much time on this subject matter.
It has affected me, though.
Horrible bounce with anxiety.
Definitely paranoid over this because, you know, if I were to be the voice of reason and get people to try and think away from the distractions, then I'm a problem to the people trying to conceal it.
And if these are people who had murdered hundreds of thousands of people over a 13-year period, I certainly don't want to mess with them right now.
Look, you're a human being, and a lot of us would throw our hands up and say, God, this is way above my pay grade.
Sure.
Well, but again, I'm here talking about it in a logical and hopefully intelligent way on your show, and I'll do it again because I just feel compelled to.
And what sort of reaction to the work that you've done have you been getting from members of the public?
What are people telling you?
Are they telling you that you're irresponsible for peddling this material?
Or are they saying, way to go, we've got to get to the bottom of this?
Well, the people who would say I was irresponsible probably haven't watched my picture because I do try and let them know how I feel, just like I did on this show.
And I feel it's not so black and white.
I heard all sorts of things, everything from, you know, the movie's a masterpiece to I hate it to, oh, you're doing such a great service to everybody.
I hear a variety of things.
I'm on the receiving end of all of it.
You know, for the people that truly believe that this thing happened, they appreciate it.
For the people that, I guess, are obsessed with the material and want to hear every little detail that they ever read on the internet in my movie, they're not happy with it.
But that's not my job.
My job isn't to go to Wikipedia or some conspiracy site and translate everything into my movie.
What I did was I personally went to the base and explored the base, which you see in the picture.
And I personally went to the archives of the Montauk Library and spoke to people and looked through all the records.
I personally interviewed Alfred Bielick, Stuart Swerdlow, and Preston Nichols.
And I personally created all of the recreations of what they were describing happened, pretty much verbatim to just exactly what they were saying happened.
What were their job descriptions?
I should have asked you this at the beginning, Chris.
What were their job descriptions?
Okay, Alfred Bielick claims he was a psychic director where he would help train the boys after they were in the traumatic experiences and train them and heighten their psychic abilities.
Preston Nichols was the man who implanted the programming just as soon as the boys were beaten and traumatized, you know, indescribably traumatized.
Preston would then take the boys and implant programming.
Stuart Swerdlow claims he was one of the boys, and he was one of the people who were traumatized for many years later being used as a counselor or an assistant to help with these boys.
Each of them, I asked, how did you feel knowing that these children were dying every day?
You were watching people die every day.
Alfred seemed to, he was, you know, he was in a later stage of the program, so he never really had to deal with how bad everything was.
But Preston and Stuart were confronted with these questions.
And Stuart described it as something that he really had no feelings about after a while because there were so many of them, and he was also traumatized.
This was his explanation, in short.
Preston, on the other hand, seems very conflicted by it and got very angry when he was confronted by it.
You'll see it in the picture.
He raises his voice and he gets angry about it.
Far as you know, any politicians, maybe those who've gone to their graves over the last couple of decades, any politicians in your country know much about this that you're aware of?
We don't have to name names here, but do you believe that there were government people who were aware of this at the kind of levels that you and I are aware of?
Without a doubt, do I believe it?
Did you talk about this when you were on national radio?
Oh, yes, yes, many times.
Boy, Chris, I knew this was going to be a difficult one.
I wasn't quite aware of how difficult.
You know, I don't know what to think and feel at the end of this.
In many ways, I just wouldn't like to be you because you have to take this further.
And, you know, there are going to be people who say, of course he's going to take it further because he's going to be making money out of this.
And how moral is that?
I haven't made a lot of money.
I've spent more hours working for, let's see, from 2006 to 2015.
I didn't make any money.
I did nothing but spend money and work day in, day out.
I lost relationships.
I was literally homeless in the last year of making this.
So it's certainly not about money.
I had an irresistible compulsion to continue on this story.
I can't explain it in short, but obviously something was driving Me through this, and that is the truth.
And you talked about the anxiety and depression, I guess, that this brought about and the damage it did to relationships and the fear.
It's a big price to pay, isn't it?
Yeah, a huge price.
This has been a big part of my life that I need a break from.
I'm actually making another picture right now that I feel is much more grounding.
It's just something I need for my soul.
Even though we're developing this show is going to be on television, I'm an executive producer on the show, which means on my picture, I had to do everything.
On the show, at least I can oversee and make suggestions and work on it as an executive, which I would prefer, because I don't want to be caught up in this story for the rest of my life and have that be the only thing I'm doing.
Boy, I've said that again.
Sorry.
Thank you for talking with me.
If people want to know about you, the work that you've done, where you're coming to this story from, where do they go?
Sure.
You can go to Montauk Chronicles, that's the name of the film, dot com, or abbreviated mtkchronicles.com.
And there is a Blu-ray available or a DVD.
And we're also making it available on streaming very shortly within the next couple of weeks.
So you can rent it there as well and see the picture.
And you can always email me from the website.
And I'm happy to talk about anything that you like.
And of course, even when you've dealt with the anxiety, the fear, and all those other things we just talked about, that's before you even factor in the response of some members of the public who are not going to like what you're doing.
Correct.
No, it's been quite an experience.
But for some reason, I've stuck to it and I'm continuing.
And again, it's not this big monetary promise.
It's never really been there.
I've really, really sacrificed a lot to make this picture.
Chris, thank you for coming on the show and stay safe.
Thank you very much.
You too.
Thank you.
But once again, we're left asking the question, how much of this could be true, if any?
I don't know.
It's above my pay grade.
But there you heard a man who is determined to get this story out there.
And frankly, if any of this is true, then it's got to be taken further, hasn't it?
Thank you very much for listening to this show.
And as I say, caution needed to be exercised in listening to this.
Not one, I don't think, for the kids.
So please bear that in mind.
We'll be back to our more mainstream fair next time here on The Unexplained.
Thanks very much to Adam Cornwell, my webmaster at Creative Hotspot for his hard work.
If you want to get in touch with me, please send me an email through the website theunexplained.tv.
When you do, please tell me who you are, where you are, and how you use the show.
And it's lovely to hear from you.
As I say, I was going to do some shout-outs this time, but I didn't think it was particularly appropriate.
So, until next, we meet here on The Unexplained.
Please stay safe.
Please stay calm.
And above all, please stay in touch.
Thank you very much.
Take care.
▲
Export Selection