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May 1, 2016 - The Unexplained - Howard Hughes
01:04:37
Edition 251 - Free Energy

Dr Patrick Kelly has spent decades researching the inventions and inventors who say theyhave created limitless power...

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Across the UK, across continental North America and around the world, on the internet, by webcast and by podcast, my name is Howard Hughes and this is The Unexplained.
Thank you very much for your support for my online show, which has been here now for 10 years, and also for the new radio show, which has been on air for six weeks.
I know that some of you overseas have trouble hearing the show, which is at 10 p.m.
UK time on Sunday nights, on Talk Radio, a new digital station here that's also streaming online.
What I'm going to try and do, and I've been allowed to do this under the agreement I have with them, I'm going to put some of the material, the best of the guests from the Talk Radio show, on this show when I get a chance.
So you do get a chance to hear people like Robert Hastings, who I had on recently, and also a man talking about 9-11 and the views of architects and engineers who say that the way it happened is not the way we've been told.
So I'll try and get some of that material onto this podcast as soon as I can.
In the meantime, this original show, of course, continues full steam ahead.
We have plans to develop it, and thank you for continuing to support me.
If you can make a donation to this completely independent work that I have online, please do that.
Go to the website, theunexplained.tv.
That's www.theunexplained.tv.
The website designed, created, and maintained by Adam from Creative Hotspot.
There you can see a link that will allow you to send me comments, guest suggestions, whatever, and also another link to allow you to make a donation to the show.
Vitally received.
If you have made a donation to the show recently, thank you very much indeed for that.
And thank you for your ongoing support.
I'm going to do some shout-outs before the guest on this edition, a man who's been recommended by one of my listeners.
And thank you very much.
You know who you are.
The guest is Dr. Patrick Kelly, who's given a very large slice of his life.
He's a retired Irish civil engineer.
To the whole topic of free energy, which he believes there is incontrovertible proof exists.
So we'll talk to Patrick Kelly in just a moment here on The Unexplained online.
But before we do that, some shout-outs.
Paul in Vancouver, thank you very much for a very thought-provoking email, Paul.
Very kind of you to take the time to write that.
Guradat says, it is once again a pleasure writing to you and hearing you interview guests.
Eben Alexander, when I heard him speak, I was not shocked by his experiences because I've already learned a great deal about what is consciousness and what is the nature of our soul.
Well, those are topics we'll be getting into again.
David says, hello, Howard.
Hello, David.
My partner Lucy and I have been listening to your show for a couple of years.
Keep up the good work.
We listen at night because you have a very soothing voice.
You seem like a genuinely kind person.
Well, I hope so.
Have you ever thought of interviewing an ex-Scientology member?
David and Lucy, yes, but that is always fraught with difficulties, and I'm sure you can assume without me telling you what some of those may be.
But yes, it's a thought for the future.
Thank you.
Alex in Albuquerque says many of your guests drone on with uninteresting details of some technical thing or boring day-to-day aspect of their lives.
This is a good time for you to interrupt and basically bring them back on point.
Okay, Alex, thank you.
I know we've been along this road before, but the show is meant to be a conversation, and that's a human interaction.
And sometimes it's not always going to be like the handbook for a car.
You know, there are going to be more than just technical details in the show.
But I'm very, very keen to get your feedback.
I'm very thankful for it.
And, you know, I will bear it in mind.
But I have to try and balance the needs of putting together what is a presentation, a show, and also doing something which is factual and informative.
It's a balancing act that is always difficult.
I'm never going to get it completely right.
And that's why I need feedback like yours.
Chris in North Carolina has been listening to some of my critics.
He says, critiques are healthy, but unbalanced critique is never constructive.
It leads me to believe this is a personality that searches primarily for what is not being done and fails to see what has been done.
Thank you, Chris.
Paul says, love listening on my commute.
Are there any plans to put the talk radio show on a catch-up podcast?
Because where I live, I can't listen.
I think that's in the works, but it's down to the radio station.
I will check again with them.
Aurelie, who is French and listening from New Zealand, says, listen to parts one and two of Ray Hernandez.
What a good show, says Aureli.
I could have listened to even more.
Hopefully, we'll get updates during your summer.
Yes, you will.
Mike in Mansfield, Texas.
Thank you for getting in touch again.
Dietmar in Germany.
Nice email and very many thanks, Dietmar.
Cindy says, I'm from Montreal and I love, love your podcast.
I take you to bed with me.
Your voice is magical and your topics are fantastic.
That's very kind.
Thank you, Cindy.
Julie Rotherway in Bootle, the place of my birth on Merseyside, nice to hear from you.
Andy says, I found Eben Alexander's information and experiences very interesting.
He confirms the work, or his experience is confirmed, by the work of Dolores Cannon, who was an expert in regressive hypnosis.
Thank you for that, Andy.
Zoe says, maybe you'll be interested in the topic of six degrees of separation theory, which was talked about a lot about 10 years ago.
Don't hear much about it these days.
Yes, Zoe, thank you.
Kathy in Ohio says, I enjoy your show.
Sometimes I think your guests are idiots.
But besides that, it's an entertaining show.
Well, thank you.
I think we've won with you.
Thank you, Kathy.
David Nath, good comments.
Thank you, David, from a fellow journalist, which you are.
Robert Hastings, who you talk about, was on my radio show very recently, and I hope to include some clips of that on this podcast very soon.
Gareth in St. Anne's near Blackpool, nice to hear from you.
Finally, Paul in Sydney says, Ray Hernandez, unfortunately for me, epitomized the problems we have in the paranormal.
Flawed assumptions, mainly.
One, the assumption that these contact experiences are external to us, and two, that they are extraterrestrial.
Paul, I think you encapsulate a lot of the criticism I've had of the Ray Hernandez show, but also a lot of people, overwhelmingly the majority of people, enjoyed that show.
But as long as I'm getting differing views, I think it means that I'm winning, by and large.
If you'd like a shout-out on this show, if you want to tell me what you think of it, please email me through the website, theunexplained.tv.
When you email, don't forget to tell me who you are, where you are, and how you use the show.
Very, very useful.
Okay, let's get to our guest now in the United Kingdom, retired Irish civil engineer Dr. Patrick Kelly, and the topic that you wanted me to get into for a very long time, free energy.
Patrick, thank you very much for taking time to come on this show.
Thank you very much for having me here.
Now, we're going to be talking, Patrick, about free energy.
And it is something that, as you know, has been deeply controversial over the years.
There are people who say, yes, it does exist and it's been suppressed as a technology.
And people who say there is no such thing.
How did your interest in this begin?
Because your background is civil engineering, isn't it?
That's correct.
Yes, I am a civil engineer, though I have worked as a systems analyst and programmer for quite a number of years.
I was interested in it initially when I first heard of it.
And I first heard of it through a Channel 4 program called It Runs on Water, which I believe is probably still on the internet somewhere or other.
It was not a very satisfactory program, but it did indicate that there were situations where more energy was produced by a system than was necessary to make the system run.
And they zeroed in on patents being produced by Stanley Mayer in the States.
And I rang up the patent office and said that I had got a recording of the actual program, but it was very difficult to make out the patent numbers shown in the program.
And the guy at the patent office laughed and said, I'll send you a list of his patents.
Lots of people have been asking for them.
So he sent me a list of patents, and I bought several at £10 each.
This was way back in 1980s.
And my interest raised from then to a constant interest over the years.
And I've done a few things about it.
And having searched for a number of years on the web and discovered various bits and pieces, I decided it would be easier for other people if I shared that information with them to make the searching easier.
And I started off with a series of separate documents.
And then eventually I combined the documents into one so that a single download would give you all the information that I had.
Right.
So what you did, by the sounds of it, was an amazing piece of detective work.
And if I'm right, you've been tracing the individual inventors who've put down patents on these things over the years.
You've actually collected those patents and you've put them together, which I presume nobody else had done before?
It's slightly different to that in that I had people emailing me and saying, I like the work that you've done, but you don't mention your blogs.
Why don't you mention your blogs?
And I've had other people who said, I'm actually an inventor and I've produced this unusual device.
Would you like to include it in your e-book?
To which my answer was almost invariably, yes, I would.
And I've had combined with several inventors who are extremely limited in their ability to express themselves in words to write down and illustrate how their actual invention works.
It normally takes me about five goes to get it right because inventors are very, very bad at actually describing what they're trying to describe.
They're not gifted with words.
They're not gifted with business skills either.
And of course, somebody has to make a judgment along the way whether these patents, whether they are viable devices.
Do you make that judgment or do you simply pass the information along?
Mainly, I make the judgment based on general principles in engineering and the experience that I've got, that patents are seldom, if ever, fully documented, fully detailed.
The inventor tries to protect his invention, omitting one or two important details.
For instance, the Stan Mayer information, which was on producing a mixture of hydrogen and oxygen from doing electrolysis of water, omitted one or two things, which were later produced by a gentleman called Dave Lawton in Wales.
He produced circuitry that would actually do what is shown in the Stan Mayer video.
And he had finished that.
And being an inventor, he's driven by intense curiosity.
And he had his particular water fuel cell in his spares box by the time I got to hear of it.
So I was talking to him on the phone, and he told me about it.
So he allowed me to write it up.
And a lot of people have done, have produced similar cells since.
Okay, so this was a two-part process for you.
There was the original work that you found, which omitted, for reasons that you explained, a couple of key details.
And somebody else's work filled in the blanks.
But what we're talking about here, if I'm correct, is actually being able to derive fuel from water, H2O?
That's correct, yes.
And it's quite straightforward to do.
And the circuit can be quite simple.
The omitted piece of information is that the electrodes have to be insulated.
And if you do it with a number of simple runs and tests on the equipment, it builds up a layer of white material on the electrodes, Which we think is probably chromium oxide.
And I know certainly that Dave Lawton got no result whatsoever from his particular fuel cell for a month.
He was working away at it on and off, day by day.
And it was a month before the insulation was affected.
And when the insulation was in place, the thing suddenly burst into life.
And you will see it in his videos, which are both included in the e-book and on my website.
Two things then flow from that, and you must have wondered about this.
This particular person and this particular invention that you say you've seen proof actually works, number one, why isn't he a billionaire now?
Or number two, why hasn't somebody shut him up?
Well, it's very difficult to shut him up if the thing is already published.
I mean, if it's published on the Internet and there are thousands of copies scattered around the world, there's no effective way of shutting him up.
I mean, he doesn't say anything.
It was I who was saying the things.
So it would be me that would be shut up rather than him.
But you can't effectively do that if there are literally thousands of copies scattered around the world in downloaded form, in PDFs.
And why he isn't a millionaire is because he's not business-minded.
He is driven by curiosity and a high level of technicality.
And he at the moment is working on, I believe, cool fusion.
He's very much into that.
He's a very bright gentleman.
And what would Cool Fusion deliver for the world?
Cool Fusion produces heat for minimal fuel input.
The input is nickel powder.
It's only produced in three places in the world, and one of them is very close to where he lives.
And he got a whole load of it quite easily.
And people actually supplied him with free samples when he asked for them, which is quite interesting.
He explains that he is a scientist investigating XYZ, and they tend to give him the bits and pieces he needs for doing that research.
Isn't that a little worrying?
Not at all, no.
Because if he wants, say, nickel powder and they supply him nickel powder, he has it.
He has been visited by men in black, mind you, but that hasn't stopped him any.
And what did you say he's been visited by men in black or whatever you want to call them?
What did they say?
He very inadvisedly applied to the Welsh authorities for a grant for research he was intending to carry out.
And these two people, a man and a woman, which he says is totally lacking in any sense of humor, turned up and asked him about it and looked at his papers and took his papers away.
And after a few days, he got onto the agency and said, I want my papers back.
And they said, what papers?
And they said that the people who came to him were not actually connected with them in any way, form, or fashion.
And they couldn't put them in touch.
He eventually got in touch with them, and they said they'd already posted the papers back.
But he kept on at them and on at them.
And eventually they did post the papers back.
And they were shown by the postmark that they had posted it the day before.
So they'd been lying earlier.
But that's a minor thing, a very, very minor thing.
And what proof do we have, myself and my listeners, that all of this is so?
All of what is so?
Well, what you're saying, the chronology of events, the work on cool fusion, and of course the ability that's been patented to derive fuel from water.
You know, I hear what you say.
Of course, I'm not a scientist.
So if I wanted to go and look for proof online or elsewhere, where would I go?
I'm not sure that proof is possible in any subject whatsoever in this universe.
But that's by the way.
I've seen it work.
There are videos on the web of it working.
There are people who've replicated it.
For instance, Ravi in India replicated it.
And as he progressed, he put videos on YouTube.
And he was then raided by five carloads of men who came in and took his equipment, his materials, his cell, his paperwork, and pretended that they were from the VAT office, which is a tax in this country.
And they weren't.
And I don't think he ever got most of the things back again.
But he had just finished working on the HHO gas mix, as it's called, from electrolysis, and had decided to move on to other things when they actually came to steal his materials.
This is going to astonish a lot of people, Patrick, around the world, I think, when they hear this.
And we've all heard the myths and read the newspaper stories about people who have these technologies, and maybe they get closed down.
But the fact that it hasn't actually got out to the stage where somebody's commercialized it, I mean, because this technology could revolutionize life.
I mean, it would probably put some fuel companies, power companies out of business or make them change their business plan.
But it would definitely revolutionize our lives and that hasn't happened, which is a great frustration, I guess.
No, it's not like that, actually.
It is actually quite different.
There are quite a number of low-grade electrolysis units for sale from a lot of people around the world.
It's also not the most advanced.
The one that Dave Lawton did, which was replicating Stan Mayer, is a coefficient of efficiency of about six.
He produces, oh, two or three liters a minute of the gas mix for a very, very low current input to make the thing operate.
There's a gentleman in the States called Bob Boyce who has taken it much further.
He uses a different style of electrolysis, and he can produce up to 100 liters of HHO in a minute.
And there was another gentleman, Paul Zaguras, in the States, who deliberately sold his invention to the oil people.
He suggested to them that for $6 million he would sell his particular device.
His particular device was a small electrolysis system which would blast five gallons, five US gallons of water into gas as it flows through it.
So you effectively connect a tap, turn the tap on, and you get gas coming out and nothing more.
And that would run a 300 horsepower marine engine, which is what Paul was involved in doing.
But there are a lot of technologies there.
And I have one particular chapter which is devoted to that particular style of technology.
It's not an area that particularly interests me, but you can run a petrol generator on the HHO mix without any petrol.
So it's quite effective that way.
You get kilowatts of excess electrical power if you want to do it that way.
All the details are in my e-book, but my e-book is not really suited to your style of audio program because you need to do sketches and show how things connect together.
So this is part of the problem, isn't it?
And you've done a great service, it seems to me, by bringing this stuff more into the public domain.
But the problem is that it is the preserve of individual inventors who are highly technical people.
They are, like you said, curious.
They're not necessarily wanting to get themselves rich.
And as long as it stays that way, this technology is not going to be more widely available, it seems to me.
Well, there is a major problem, and that is a group of people who call themselves the New World Order.
They already own the majority of the oil companies and the pharmaceutical industry and the mainstream media, which is newspapers and television and so on.
And they don't want this particular technology introduced.
So they have been opposing it for at least 100 years now.
Now, Patrick, I've heard a lot of people talk about this, and I have a lot of sympathy with what you've said, but you know that's highly controversial, and there will be people hearing this now shaking their heads saying that's just wacko conspiracy talk.
They can say whatever they like, but it doesn't change the way the world is.
I mean, they can say water is dry if they want, but I would disagree.
I think water is wet, and there seems to be a fair amount of evidence for that.
But ignoring those people for the moment, the thing is, let's say you're an inventor and you've produced a device which is very effective.
The only way that you can get it out into general circulation is to manufacture it and sell it.
That's a difficult thing to do.
For instance, there's a Chinese guy called Shen He Wang, and he produced a series of motor generators which are driven by permanent magnets.
Permanent magnet is a room temperature superconductor for the energy flow of the universe.
But he wanted to give the design freely to 157 different governments so that they could manufacture this for themselves.
It has no input power and it has great output power.
And he made them in one kilowatt, five kilowatts, and 100 kilowatt sizes.
And those are being used actually now in the coal-fired electricity generating stations in China.
But the people involved in it, who are business people, will not allow him to give away his design to other people.
I mean, he just didn't understand how the world works.
And so he got lent on completely.
I mean, if that is so, that means that we are going to be as a planet dependent on fossil fuels for as long as assuming there are powers that be above our governments and a new world order might exist.
If we assume that, then we're going to be stuck in this circle forever or until the fossil fuels run out.
Yes, you would have thought that, certainly.
But I think we have now come to the stage where the people who make the decisions have decided that they're going to allow the introduction of free energy.
And I think the opposition is now dropping away.
The difficulty with your design, if you're an inventor, is to get the finance and the know-how to actually manufacture it and sell it.
And that's the hard bit.
And the people in charge have got the grip on most of the financing.
So you might have the great idea, but like everything in this world, we all know this, whether we're buying a car or buying a house or trying to set up a business.
You can have a great idea, but if you haven't got the money to put behind it, then you're finished.
Yes, but that is indeed the problem.
And it's not so much an idea as a working device.
There are a lot of working devices.
And we have To avoid the fake companies that are set up by the people in charge who come in and say, look, we can provide money for this, and so on.
And they manage to swindle most inventors out of their invention and shell of it.
But that's a minor thing.
They do have other methods that they use quite effectively.
For instance, there's a gentleman in the States called John Bedini, and he has quite a number of technologies.
One of them is a pulsed flywheel.
And the pulsed flywheel produces more energy output than is needed to make it operate.
And he's had a small version running in his workshop for typically five years.
Now, a friend of his called Jim Wilson actually made a big version.
He scaled the thing up so it was like 20 feet long, 10 feet tall.
And it was producing like 12 kilowatts of excess power.
And he showed it at the Tesla Tech conference in I think it was 1985.
And he demonstrated operating.
And overnight, one of the batteries operating it was stolen.
And immediately after the conference finished, both he and it disappeared.
Now, he is around.
Some of his friends have run into him, and he's made excuses and disappeared from them very rapidly.
But his device has not gone onto the market in any form or fashion.
And you're sure that what you're telling me now is more than an urban myth?
Oh, yes, absolutely.
No question.
I mean, you'll see a photograph of the actual device itself in my e-book, which is a free download, incidentally.
You don't get any ads on my websites.
I don't get paid for any clicks.
This is interesting, Patrick, because, you know, you are a qualified man.
It seems to me that if you approached a publisher and had a book printed about this, this book would be a bestseller.
No, no, it's not a subject that's popular with people.
You see it as being a bestseller because you're interested in the subject.
But most people aren't interested in the subject.
And as a result, I think the sales will be very low.
Now, the real problem is you look at it and you see a book and you think it's a book.
And it isn't really.
It's a work in progress.
And it's been updated more than 280 times at this stage.
So it's something that gets improved continuously as I run into extra technologies.
What I've done is tried to group similar devices together.
And I've made an attempt at explaining how most of them work.
So that's really the thrust of what I do.
What a tremendous amount of work for you.
It is, yes.
I've been working on it for years, typically 12 hours a day.
But it's because I think I can explain it well enough for most people to understand what I'm saying.
So it tends to be quite popular as a book as such.
Well, no, that's why I'm saying that.
I think, you know, I hate to disagree with you about anything, but I think if you had that published as a book with pictures and maybe a forward by somebody, I think you might be onto a winner there and you'd be doing people a public service.
And in any case, you, I know you were very reticent to come on and do this show because you didn't think that you thought that maybe you were too much of a scientist or people wouldn't get it.
But, you know, you put a marvelous case together and you explained things very well, if I may say so.
I want to work through this list of patterns and inventions that you gave me, some of them anyway.
I don't think if we had three hours, we'd have enough time to go through all of them.
But there's one here, Teru Kawaii, the magnetic motor and the self-powered motorcycle is one of them.
Tell me about that.
Well, this gentleman is Japanese, and he produced a motor, which is detailed in the book, which has 3.18 times more power output than the input needed to make it run, which means you can make it self-powered with quite a lot of power left over.
Now, Teru came to the States and was meeting with Tom Bearden and some other people in the States when the meeting was interrupted by the Japanese who came in and talked to Teru himself.
And as a result, he went off and there was nothing done with that particular device ever again.
He was intimidated, quite clearly.
This seems to be a bit of a theme.
I mean, this goes all the way back, though, doesn't it, to Nikolai Tesla himself?
It goes back further than that.
But yes, it does, indeed.
About 100 years now, the people who make the decisions have been messing around with scientific information and selling the most ridiculous things as scientific fact.
It's very difficult to fight against the notions that they have introduced.
For instance, they say perpetual motion is impossible, but everything in the universe is based on perpetual motion.
There isn't anything at all that isn't.
And then they say you can't create or destroy energy.
Now, I tend to agree with that.
And they don't seem to realize that if that is so, then all you can do is convert energy from one form to another.
You can't actually use it.
You can't consume energy as such.
It just doesn't happen.
You know, there are a whole string of things like that.
The whole principle that's taught in schools and universities, which is funded by them, is completely wrong in a lot of areas, deliberately so, to try and make it impossible for people to believe.
But again, you see, the difficulty is that ordinary people, we have basic educations in science, most of us.
I do.
I have an interest in science, but I don't have much in the way of scientific qualifications.
I'm an arts guy.
That's why I became a broadcaster and a journalist.
But I can remember being a kid and being given a thing called a Newton's cradle, which occasionally you see in people's offices.
These ball bearings hanging there, and you whack one against the other, and they keep cracking away, bashing against each other until they run out of steam.
Isn't that just the way the world works?
You know, you start something going, and inevitably it will stop.
It won't create more energy.
Yeah, but what you're looking at is a mechanical system.
And mechanical systems do actually work with excess energy if you want them to.
But what's happening there is each time the balls come back, you get a clack, a loud sound clack, which you will have noticed when you ran your device.
And that itself is drawing energy from the system.
And the elasticity of the metal balls that are hung up is not 100% efficient.
So the thing will gradually slow down because of that.
But if you want to use gravity to produce energy, you can indeed.
I mean, in 1938, the British Pathet News Service showed a video of William F. Skinner in the States, who was running his machine workshop on gravity pretty much alone.
He had an electric motor which was driving the system through, would you believe it or not, a loop of thread.
That was the amount of power being delivered.
And with that, he was able to drive his steel-cutting lathe, which is 12 feet long, and saws and other things in his workshop.
And that video is still around.
I mean, if you go to Google and Google William F. Skinner, you will see the video there.
And people are attempting to develop that again now.
But that was his fifth design.
And it is perfectly possible to extract excess energy from a whole string of things.
I mean, I know of more than 20 different ways to extract free energy from the universe as such.
It's not a major thing to do.
And that's an interesting thing that you say.
There is still a radio presenter called Art Bell in America who does a show similar to this one.
A great hero of mine.
And he has a home in the desert near Las Vegas.
And he put together this, I think you could probably call it an antenna system.
And it was basically, I think, a lot of very, very, Art would explain it much better than me because he's more scientific than I am.
But he put this long thing up in the desert, and it was generating staggering amounts of current from nowhere.
And he was never able to explain why that is.
And I don't think anybody else yet has been able to explain how it is possible, how, you know, a very long piece of wire stuck up in the desert in the Varda can generate massive amounts of current.
It's very straightforward.
It's not a difficult thing at all.
The energy that he's picking up is energy which comes from the universe itself via the sun.
The energy from the sun impacts on the ionosphere 24 hours every day.
And you have a massive amount of energy stored in the ionosphere.
That creates a voltage gradient from the ionosphere down to the Earth.
And for instance, Lawrence Rayburn in Canada, who's a farmer there, he has an aerial design which is formed of two four-foot diameter spirals of copper pipe connected, interconnected, one mounted 30 feet above the other, and interconnected by a wire and a spark gap and a step down series of coils, and that's producing 10 kilowatts of power for him continuously.
It's not unusual.
I mean, you'll find a very nice patent, you find it in my e-book as well as other places, obviously, where a guy called Pawson explains how to take this energy and convert it into useful form.
And he talks about aerial installations, small aerial installations that are only producing 100 kilowatts or so, not big ones.
Now that's a little bit misleading in that I think each aerial contributes only about one kilowatt.
But it's not a difficult thing to do.
I mean there's a guy in Serbia who has taken a simple, very simple circuit, which is just diodes and capacitors, and he's done 100 of those little modules, and he's getting 98 watts continuously from his aerial.
This is nearly 100 watts of continuous power with no input at all.
Could this explain, do you think, Patrick, why there is such a rush now and such a new focus on space, on getting out into space?
Could it be that the powers that we know that there is a tremendous well of energy out there, some of which gets down to this planet, and that could be harvested by those who have control of the technology?
Tell me a thought.
No, it's not like that.
They've been out in space for a very long time.
They have a lot of electrostatic vehicles, not electrostatic, electroglavitic vehicles, which you would call flying saucers.
And they've had those for like 60 years now.
Who are they?
They are the American government, the British government, the Canadian government, and the Russian government.
And probably other people as well.
So you're saying that what we call flying saucers, wherever the technology originally came from, are electrogravitic things that work on principles that we don't publicly understand.
And they've known about this technology and had it for a long time.
That's correct, yes.
Nikola Tesla produced one, and the Germans during World War II developed some of them as well.
The technology is used in your large American transport planes a lot, where they use it when they're taking off to make it easier to actually get off the ground.
But yeah, the system is perfectly straightforward.
What you described, though, as energy coming in down onto the Earth, isn't actually correct.
The energy is all around us and through us, and all life is based on it.
The energy field is so much smaller than electrons that it flows through everything, including you, through the Earth, through everything.
There is no such force as gravity.
Gravity doesn't exist.
What the effects you see and call gravity are, in actual fact, a very slight imbalance between the energy field of the universe pressing down on you and the energy field of the universe coming up through the Earth at you.
And the power that's produced by that, which is quite a lot in normal day terms, is in actual fact 10 to the power 39 times weaker than electromagnetics.
That's, by the way, the effect of gravity is quite usable to produce engines and devices of all types.
I mean, in my e-book, you've got more than 100 different designs, and this is only just scratching the surface.
And what these, Patrick, would be designs that effectively repel gravity to get propulsion from it.
Is that right?
Yes, and no.
Loosely speaking, yes, that is correct.
But in actual fact, what they're doing is they are producing a usage of the universal energy in such a way that one of the side effects is a gravitational field.
The way that the universe works is quite different to the way taught in schools and colleges and universities.
It is completely different to that.
And you need to get the idea of how the thing works.
It's like a fish in the deep ocean with a mile of water in every direction.
And the fish is asking, what is water and how do I get some?
That's the way we are with energy.
We are completely surrounded and immersed in energy, lots and lots of energy.
The energy is so big that one cc anywhere in the universe has enough energy in it to create all of the visible material in all of the universe.
If you can see it, you could manufacture the equivalent out of the energy in one cc anywhere.
I mean, it's the amount of energy is so staggering.
Well, if all of this is so, and the totality of the things we've been talking about is so, what on earth is mainstream science, some of which gets enormous grants from governments and massive corporations, what have they been doing for all of these decades?
They've been towing the line that they've been told to tow by the people who are providing the funds.
The people providing the funds are the people who don't want us to know about this energy.
If you were familiar with this energy, you could make a flying saucer.
If you had a flying saucer, what difference does the boundary between any two countries matter?
It doesn't.
You could fly from where you are now to anywhere in the world in five minutes.
And what about tales of extraterrestrials then?
Because we've been led to believe down the decades that the possessors of flying saucers are from other planets, if indeed they exist.
Well, there may be people from other planets with flying sources.
I think it's extremely likely there are.
I mean, you have records in the Bible, for instance, and in ancient Chinese writings, of things that are almost certainly flying devices.
This is way, way before the technology was high enough for humans to have them.
But that's, by the way, I don't think that matters very much.
A lot of them will be human-made.
I mean, there have been records over many decades now of people connecting with these particular flying sources.
For instance, one guy was doing a hike in the mountains, and he saw a camouflaged opening in a mountain opening up, and what came out was a flying saucer which had painted on it USSR and USA.
It was a joint, combined development.
I mean, I don't know why people are so wound up about flying saucers.
It's just a method.
I mean, so what?
I mean, who cares?
Patrick, do you believe that the likes of the ancient Egyptians, maybe the Mayans, knew about these things and we just simply have forgotten over the years?
Yes, except that it I think was people ahead of them.
I think we had extraterrestrial visitors who came with high technology ahead of them and produced things of extreme power, but they ran into difficulties with the weather and with probably impacts from meteorites, big ones, which wiped out their technology over time.
There are books by a guy called Sitchin which describes the situation pretty well.
But I don't claim to be an expert at all In any of that stuff.
Okay, getting back to the patents list, then, which is a fascinating list, and we'll never be able to get through all of them.
We'll get through a few of them.
One that fascinates me because of the sheer cloud of power that it is claimed to produce.
This is Dr. Oleg Gritkiewich's 1.5 megawatt generator.
You've got to tell me about that.
Well, he is an expert, a scientific expert in Russia.
And he borrowed some of the Russian Army equipment to get his device started.
And he built a large two-meter diameter toroid, which was filled with, first of all, a coating on the inside of a barium salt from memory.
it was then filled with distilled water and had a number of electrodes inserted in it.
It's a toroid.
I Is that a circular coil?
It's a doughnut-shaped thing.
A toroid is a fancy name for a doughnut.
Or if you prefer, a doughnut is made in a toroidal shape.
Got it.
Okay.
So he got this thing going with the help of the Army device, and it ran for a year and a half, continuously producing power.
The only moving part was the water going round inside the toroid.
Now, he has not given any great details on that, unless it's in a Russian patent, which I couldn't deal with.
And he, how would I put this?
He hasn't replicated it since, and nobody's said anything about it since.
But if this is all so, its potential, I mean, if it generates 1.5 megawatts, I guess that's enough to power a town.
You know, it's remarkable.
Yes, it is.
But there are a lot of things like that.
I mean, you must remember that you're sitting in an enormous energy field, and if you make something that's even very inefficient, that can tap some of that power, you get a very large amount of power coming out.
And it's very effective.
For instance, let's take the case of Manog Parga, who is the guy who invented the five-hour energy drink in America.
Now, it's not one that I'm familiar with, but apparently it sold a very, very large number of units.
And he ends up with like $4 billion as pa change.
Now, he has got a nicely common sense approach.
And as he points out, the things that you need in life is you need clean water and you need electricity for lighting.
Those are the two really essential things.
And he has approached the problem from common sense.
And he has a number of options that he is following up.
Now, the people working for him have produced a graphene cable.
And the cable, if you have a high temperature at one end, you get a high temperature at the other end.
And the bit in the middle is always cool.
And his objective is to drill a hole in the ground and use it as a heat pump.
You drill down deep, push the cable in, and then you can take the heat off the top.
And the heat difference allows you to run generators indefinitely.
Now, graphene is this wonder substance, isn't it, that is very, very thin lead.
It's almost like getting a very, very thin sliver of lead and making it into a film.
And it's supposed to be incredibly efficient at transferring energy.
Yes, except that it's not lead.
Lead is a metal material.
Graphite.
Graphene is a different animal.
It's like the word microversion of graphene, which is what you get in a pencil.
Or graphite is what you get in a pencil.
Graphene is like that, but very thin and produced in a strand which is about the thickness of a hair.
Now, you can combine those into a cable of any size you want by just spinning them.
Right.
And the idea being somehow to extract energy by dropping a cable made of this down into the earth?
Oh, yes.
Are you not familiar with heat pumps?
No.
Make me more familiar.
Okay.
You have a refrigerator.
Your refrigerator has a coefficient of performance of three.
In other words, you get three times as much heat effect as the energy you push into it.
It's a heat pump.
Now, you can use that the other way around, and like they do in places like Sweden, if you have hot earth near the surface, you just drill down to where it's hot, and you sink a pipeline in there, and that heats up water in the pipeline, and you use that heated water to drive your turbines.
And the turbines give you electricity.
So you get free electricity and free heating from your heat pump in the ground.
The same applies to systems here in this country for cooling.
We have, let me think what they call them, they effectively have cooling devices which are portable, air conditioners they call them.
And you can extract heat from the surrounding air and push that into your house to heat your house.
Or you can reverse the process and take heat out of your house and push it outside to keep you cool in summer.
Now those are typically between three and seven times efficient.
In other words, you can have up to 700% efficiency on that system.
And this is accepted completely by conventional science.
Nobody disputes this for a moment.
This is used quite widely, all over the place.
There's nothing special about this.
These are heat pumps.
Okay.
But this is just a a large, natural version of what I've got in my fridge.
Yes, yes.
It's exactly the same as in your fridge.
Your fridge takes heat out of the inside of the fridge and pushes it out into your room.
So your room gets warmed up and the inside of your fridge gets cooled down.
All right.
That's at least 300% efficient.
Going through the list, there's a fascinating, and I don't even know whether I'm going to pronounce this properly, but thestatic, if that's the way you pronounce it, electrostatic generator devised by some guy in Switzerland.
Lovely name, but what is it?
It's a Windshurst machine.
A what machine?
A Windshurst.
Windhurst.
Windshurst.
Okay.
It's an electrostatic machine.
Did you not have it in school?
It's very commonly used in schools to teach about static electricity.
You have a small plastic disc which you rotate and it generates electrostatic electricity which is lifted off by pickup brushes made of metal and that gives you a very large charge of electricity which will create sparks up to like three inches long if you want.
Now what happened was Paul Bowman thought about that and then decided how he could use it to create ordinary electricity and he built one version which was a one kilowatt and he built them a second version which was two kilowatts and he built a third version which is three kilowatts and they're used by a Swiss commune, religious commune, to operate their tools.
But they will not share it because they consider mankind as such is not ready to use that sort of energy, which is as ridiculous as you can get.
So the people who oppose us already have this technology and according to the Swiss we're not ready for it.
What about the 40 watt continuous generator?
Yeah.
Okay, that's an interesting one.
It's been developed by a friend of mine in South Africa.
He's working on it at this present moment.
The initial version that he produced uses four, no, five small motorcycle batteries, 12 volts.
And he uses a 150 watt mains inverter.
And the system that he's produced is a little rotor which has got a series of magnets embedded in it.
And that is self-driven by pulses coming from one of the batteries.
And the pulses from the batteries charge all five batteries simultaneously.
And he has a system now that keeps the driving battery always charged to the same level.
And he draws off, in this instance, his initial version, it draws off 40 kilowatts, sorry, 40 watts of mains frequency, mains voltage power.
And he's tested that continuously for three weeks solid.
So in other words, he's had a 40 watt light bulb lit brightly by his system for three weeks without any form of break in that three weeks.
Well, I don't know if you've been following news from South Africa over this last year or two, but they have a power company called ESCOM there.
A lot of the infrastructure is falling apart and desperately needs replacing.
So in many places, they have rolling power cuts.
At many times of the year, people are just in the cities in South Africa and in the country without power.
So this guy's technology could be salvation for them.
Yes, but there are a lot of ways of doing it.
The thing, I hate building things myself.
I really dislike doing it.
It's not my style.
But if I get a link to a manufacturer, or an alleged link to an alleged manufacturer, I will develop things for people who don't have electricity.
And I produced a number of things.
One of them was a self-powered light.
Very simple, just on a solar panel.
But this is a serious light, not one of these silly things that are put in gardens.
This is a case of where a 10-watt solar panel, which is like 15 inches long and 12 inches across, will charge a battery, nickel-manganese battery, for maybe three hours during the day, and it will give up to eight hours of continuous 1,000 lux lighting during the nighttime.
Now, that's a serious amount of lighting.
It was built into a desktop lamp.
And the desktop lamp is roughly the equivalent of a desktop lamp that's powered by the mains.
And is there anything commercially available like that thing that you've built?
No, there's nothing commercially available.
The guy who said that he could have it manufactured and sold in Africa decided that he couldn't because it would cost him £25 to make.
Wow, it was too expensive at £25, $45 to make.
Yes.
Yes, indeed.
So the details of that are in chapter 14 in my e-book.
So anybody who wants can make one if they wish.
It can be very, very simple.
Patrick, for a man who said that he wasn't sure whether people listening to my show would be interested in this stuff, I think you've just proved that they would be massively interested.
And I've understood 98.5% of the scientific detail that you've explained to me.
And I'm not scientific.
And, you know, sometimes it makes my head hurt.
I was lousy at physics at school, partly because I wasn't taught physics very well in this particular school.
I was interested, but you know what education was like.
You know, 30 years ago it was it was a a whole other country.
But look, this is fascinating stuff.
What are you going to do with it?
Your list of patents and your collection of inventors and people that you've come across grows, it seems to me, by the day.
You need to be doing something very useful with this material, it seems to me.
So what are your plans for it?
I just give it away free.
Anyone who wants it can have it.
And where's this going to go?
I mean, look, none of us will live forever.
All of our lives are finite.
Who carries on this work after you?
Well, I have a guy in Holland who has donated part of his own server.
So I keep my software up to date on his server.
So if, perhaps I should say when, I'm no longer around, he will maintain the actual site as such.
But there are lots of places that the actual document is.
I share it on peer-to-peer networks.
I share it on SlideShare.
And it's downloadable free from three of my websites and his website, which is four websites.
So it's not something that's difficult to get at.
But like I say, the interest in it is fairly low.
You refer to a list of patents.
It's not actually like that.
The patents are reworded and colored and included in this particular e-book.
I've tried to keep the size down, and I keep taking stuff out to keep the size down.
But it is 3,000 pages now at this stage.
3,000?
Wow.
That's about five or six ordinary books, isn't it?
The situation with the book is that it is too big to be conveniently put into a physical book.
3,000 pages, you're trucking two reams of paper, closely printed on both sides in color.
There are one and a quarter million words and three and a half thousand detailed illustrations.
So the volume is just physically too large for it to be conveniently as a book.
I understand.
If you try producing it as separate chunks or parts or chapters or whatever, it just is too expensive.
And I completely understand the economics of it.
Just finally, Patrick, and thank you very much for giving me this hour, especially we're recording this on a public holiday in the UK, so it's even doubly good of you to do this.
You've talked about some of the people who'd created these inventions having been visited or stopped in other ways.
Now, you're putting all of these things together.
Has anybody ever tried to stop you from doing this?
Well, I started initially with three websites where you didn't have to pay for them at all.
And I had six of those taken down and myself excluded from connecting again with the people who supply the sites.
I then moved to paying for sites.
So effectively, I'm not giving the book away free.
I'm actually paying you to take it because it costs me money to put up the website and keep it there.
And why is it worth it for you to do that out of your own pocket?
I suppose you could call it a hobby, I would imagine.
I wish to oppose the people who have got the government under their thumb.
Wrapping this up now, Patrick, what are you going to be doing, if you look ahead through the next year, what are you going to be doing?
Are you going to be trolling the patent office some more and putting these inventions into language that ordinary people like me can understand?
Are you going to keep doing that?
I have never actually trolled a patent office.
Occasionally somebody may say there's a patent such and such from Joe Bloggs, and I may go and look it up.
But generally speaking, I don't do that.
I wouldn't envisage doing anything in particular different than I'm doing at the moment.
I'm elderly.
I'm 74.
And I wouldn't expect to be around all that much longer.
Well, I hope you're around for an awful lot longer.
And I want to talk with you again.
I hope maybe one of these days we might meet face to face.
I found this a fascinating hour.
If people want to see your work, tell me the best website that they can go to.
www.freefengy e-n-e-r-g-y-info i-n-f-o.com dr. Patrick Kelly, thank you very much for your time.
And I hope it isn't the last time that we will speak.
I'd love to talk with you again because I know we've only scratched the surface and I hope that you found this interesting and useful.
Thank you very much indeed for having me on.
Dr. Patrick Kelly, going to be controversial, I know.
Free energy, the topic.
If you have any thoughts about that, any suggestions that you'd like to make, please get in touch with me at my website, theunexplained.tv, and that website honed, maintained, crafted, and kept going by Adam Cornwell from Creative Hotspot in Liverpool.
Please keep your emails coming.
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So, until next, we meet here on The Unexplained.
My name is Howard Hughes.
I am in London, and please, stay safe, stay calm, and above all, please, stay in touch.
Thank you very much.
Take care.
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