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Oct. 15, 2015 - The Unexplained - Howard Hughes
01:07:17
Edition 225 - Crop Circle Update

Direct from Wiltshire, UK - with veteran Researcher Charles R Mallett...

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Across the UK, across continental North America and around the world, on the internet, by webcast and by podcast, my name is Howard Hughes and this is The Unexplained.
Thank you very much for the torrent of emails that you've been sending recently.
A bit of a confession, I'm a little behind myself, so I haven't really had time to make all of the notes on your emails, so that is why the shout-outs that I was going to do this time, I'd like to push forward to the next edition, if that's okay with you.
But thank you very much for being in touch and for all of the guest suggestions and the comments and the words of support that you've been sending me.
You say some very nice things, and you know, sometimes when I feel a little depleted, you give me reason to go on and you've given me the driving fuel to desire, to want to develop this.
We will have news for you soon.
Adam and I are working on this.
You know, I've learned a great deal about the way content is consumed in this world just by looking at the statistics for the unexplained and looking at the pie charts.
Now, I'm not a big one for statistics and graphs and that kind of thing.
I just don't do that.
You know, I do the creative stuff.
The actual number crunching is not really my thing.
But I've been looking at how you consume the unexplained and how you get it.
And I have to accept that although a year ago I might have thought that most people are still listening on traditional computers, it seems that most of our listening now is on mobile devices.
So we need to develop that part, I think, of our offering to you.
A lot of that depends on funding, but we're going to see what we can do.
If you've been in touch recently, thank you very much.
Thank you for the suggestions.
If you want to get in touch, then go to the website theunexplained.tv, that website designed, created and honed, kept going by Adam Cornwell, a creative hotspot in Liverpool.
There's a link on the website theunexplained.tv and you can send me a message, whatever you want to say.
Tell me about who you are, where you are, and the sorts of things that you're doing.
Some people are commuting to work or, I don't know, peeling crabs in Trondheim, Norway.
There was one emailer, and I'll mention him in the shout-outs, but I'll just tell you briefly.
He is actually involved in building fighter aircraft.
You know who you are.
A great email.
He listens to the show while he's putting together the cockpits of fighter aircraft.
He's actually sitting in the cockpit listening, which to me is a real mind-blower.
And sir, you're absolutely right.
I don't think anybody else will be consuming this show in that way.
What an amazing thing.
I've got Top Gun listening to me.
Thank you very much.
It is just amazing how you use this show.
It makes me feel very gratified as I battle my way through early autumn here in the northern hemisphere as the nights grow longer and the mornings come later, which will progressively happen, of course.
And then the next thing you know, I've been in the shops doing my shopping over the last couple of days and you look on the racks and they've got Christmas cards and chocolates and things for Christmas.
It's only October.
Oh boy, when I was a kid, I don't know about you, whichever part of the world you're in.
Christmas used to start around about late October, beginning of November.
And now it seems that we're launching the run-up to Christmas at the end of August.
What on earth has become of the world?
I don't know.
One of many changes, I guess we just have to adapt to.
Thank you for your feedback on Fevzi Turkalp, by the way, the gadget detective.
Fevzi and I, of course, go back a long way.
We're old friends.
And we're talking about doing maybe some shows that answer your questions.
So we're going to put that idea out there.
And if Fevzi gets the time, we're going to record a show featuring your questions.
So I will punt for your questions.
I'll ask for your questions nearer the time than when we actually do that.
Hopefully before the end of this year, if not the beginning of next year, with Fevzi Turkalp, the gadget detective, who was edition 223.
On this edition of the show, I want to return to some territory that I used to explore a lot when this show was on radio.
In fact, on one edition, I got the famous Reg Presley, the lead singer of the Trogs, the man who sang Wild Thing, into the studio because he was one of this country's, if not this country's foremost, crop circle researchers, a great believer in anomalous phenomena and a great questter after the truth.
Now, he lived in Wiltshire, and on the night that we had him alive on the air, he traveled all the way up from Wiltshire and sat with me for more than an hour, taking my questions and taking your calls.
So I want to get back to the subject of crop circles.
I used to assume that they were purely a British phenomenon, and I know I'm wrong about that.
And I used to assume that almost all of them were created by people late at night sitting on motor mowers, having had maybe one or two extra beers that night.
That too may be incorrect, whereas many of them may well be faked up.
Some of them potentially can't be because of the effect that they have on the ground, the crops that they bend and twist out of shape, radiation left behind, and the fact that these patterns that are made in crops, in fields here in the UK, especially in places like Wiltshire, sometimes are so intricate, you wonder how geometrically they could be created on the ground without vast teams of people and a lot of people noticing.
So I want to talk with Charles R. Mallet, who is a crop circle researcher from Wiltshire, who spent a lot of time doing that.
Thank you to Jill, his friend who got in touch and told me about him.
I think you're going to find what he has to say interesting.
Reminder, if you want to get in touch with the show or make a donation to it, please go to the website theunexplained.tv and you can do both of those things or either of them there.
Remember, we are independent media.
We are spearheading the fight for free and independent content.
And without getting on any high horses, I think in this day and age of corporate media, that's massively important.
Let's get online now to Wiltshire.
And Charles R. Manet, Crop Circle Researcher, thank you very much for coming on The Unexplained.
My pleasure, my pleasure.
Now, Charles, listen, you are effectively in the very hub of all of these things, of so many things that are paranormal and unusual, because where you are in Wiltshire is a kind of focal point for UFO cases.
We have them every year.
Definitely a focal point for crop circles, which we're about to talk about.
But many, many weird things seem to happen there, don't they?
Yes, indeed, Howard.
That's kind of what brought me to the area in the first place.
I started out living in Devon in the far southwest of England here, and come over here to Wiltshire because of what seemed to be a real concentration of paranormal activity and especially the physical manifestation of such in the form of crop circles.
It's like, you know, I'm sat at my home in Devon 1996, 97, researching UFOs, crop circles, paranormal intervention and hidden history and this whole thing that we're into.
And it's like there's crop circles and huge patterns and markings showing up on the landscape that are seemingly inexplicable.
And I'm living down the road.
So yeah, I had to just come and investigate that.
And it does turn out that this area around Avebury, the central hub of the whole crop circle phenomenon, has really got a plethora of other related phenomena that seem to be manifesting on a regular basis.
And yes, that is UFOs, strange light phenomena, subjective personal encounters by people that spend nights and days on these ancient sacred sites.
There's a huge concentration of ancient megalithic sites here.
Avery Stone Circle, of course, Stonehenge is just down the road, the West Kennett Longbarrow.
The huge and mysterious Silbury Hill, in itself, a real focal point for some major UFO sightings over the years.
And Silbury Hill, listen, I know Silbury Hill quite well because I used to visit that area a lot.
There is a feeling about Silbury Hill.
It doesn't matter what time of year you go there, it's a feeling of something unusual, nothing malevolent, but just something very unusual.
That's the only way I can describe it.
No, I kind of agree.
I mean, the very first time I saw it, you know, I'd never actually even heard of Silbury Hill when I first came to Wiltshire.
And I was just going by it, and it kind of went, wow, what on earth is that?
It looks so unnatural, stuck down there in the valley between the hills.
And it's like some kind of giant pyramid, obviously a cone-shape, but it's got that same energy, that same ancient strangeness about it, as if there's something really amazing there.
And when I began to dig into it, I found that this was really ancient.
It's not really entirely known exactly how old it is or what it's for.
Obviously, there's a lot of standard archaeological theories, but the fact that it seemed to be attracting a lot of paranormal activity and physical appearances of what most people describe as UFOs deeply fascinated me.
And I actually spent several nights sleeping on top of Silver Hill, hoping to have experiences or encounters or whatever.
And yeah, a few kind of curious little anomalies were seen and experienced, but I've never had any direct close encounters ever.
Yeah, a deeply fascinating place.
And to me, it seems to be the central core, the hub of this whole special landscape thing that seems to be going on here.
And I'm sure it's something that the ancient peoples of this general region were well aware of, that there's something very special about here.
It seems to be focused very tightly into this immediate neighborhood.
And hence there's a very, very dense concentration of standing stones and this other type of ancient monuments that litter this landscape right here.
And in amongst all of that, we get the modern crop circles phenomenon, of course.
I want to paint a picture in sound because that's what radio is all about and podcasting as well.
You are actually right in the middle of that area.
You're in a farm, aren't you?
You're on a farm estate.
Tell me about the building you're in because there's a little bit of reverb there.
And I get this mental picture of you being in a kind of an old stone building with a certain amount of reverberation around you.
Yes, a surprisingly accurate.
According, actually, Howard.
Yeah, I've got a tiny little converted, very old barn, possibly actually built out of the original stones.
A lot of the buildings around here in Avebury, which is, of course, pretty much the hub of the entire crop circle, worldwide crop circle phenomenon.
My barn is built out of possibly parts of the ancient stones.
And it is a very simple little barn building with a lovely big wood burner and a hay loft for a bedroom.
And I'm physically positioned just about six or seven hundred meters from Avery Stone Circle, the largest stone circle complex in the world.
I'm possibly one of the most impressive all sat within this.
Even after being here for so long, since 1997, this area's got something, you can't put your finger on it, but there's something energetically, something kind of spiritual almost.
There's something really special about this area.
And whenever I leave this area, you kind of almost leave something.
It's kind of like a, I don't know what it is.
I try, generally speaking, I try to be objective about what I'm experiencing in relation to all of these matters that we're discussing.
But there's something special about this area.
And in my opinion, it's probably something energetic that is relative to our physical position on the planet.
And the ancient indigenous peoples of this area knew about this, tapped into it, and used it to create their own connections with who knows what.
All right, you went there in 1997.
You didn't leave.
You stayed there in that very nice place and you're doing your researches.
Now, look, the likes of me, when it comes to these phenomena and stuff like this, I want to go and have a look.
I want to go and experience.
Then I want to go home.
You're one of those people drawn to it.
What was it about you and your background and your past that made you want to get right in the middle of it?
Well, I mean, funny enough, I mean, ever since I could remember as a child, you know, five or six years old, I was always fascinated by UFOs, pyramids, ancient things, mysterious things just always fascinated me for whatever reason.
I don't really know.
I remember seeing a UFO with three or four of my brothers and sisters, there's seven of us all together, standing out in the countryside in Devon one bright sunny afternoon.
And we saw a silver ball go across the sky quite fast, quite low, right in front of us.
And we said to our father, you know, Dad, what's that?
And he said, oh, it's a weather balloon.
And of course, you know, he'd been kind of socially Conditioned to say things like that.
Sounds like he had a knowledge of Roswell.
Yeah, and the thing was, obviously, at the time, you know, it's like, oh, okay.
When I look back on it now, I kind of that's that wasn't a Weber balloon.
I don't know what it was, but it wasn't a Weber balloon, but it kind of shows the sort of levels of social conditioning in a sense.
But yes, I'd always been fascinated.
And at the age of around about 18, 19, I really started looking into the subject of UFOs and the way it had been suppressed for decades and decades and decades and realized that there really, really was something pretty amazing going on.
And there was a long-winded historical context and record that largely demonstrated this to the open mind.
And then, of course, it led on to many other areas of thought.
And crop circles come along the way, actually.
When I was at school, and down in Devon, it's not exactly a crop circle hotspot, but we get a local South West England media down there back in the late 1970s, early 1980s.
And as a young child, I remember seeing the crop circles showing up on our news TV channels.
And you have to remember that with regional media in that area, just for people who don't know it, maybe people listening in America, the regional media in the southwest, as it used to be, they've thinned it down now, there isn't quite as much of it as there used to be.
But, you know, they were short of stories because big stories, the big crimes and stuff that happens in the big cities, don't happen in Devon and Cornwall.
So they have to look for stuff like that.
Yeah, and the way this was presented, and these old news reports can still be found online now, but the way it was presented, you know, through our local media was that there's something serious happening, there's something mysterious happening, and we don't know what.
And they had meteorologists out in the field, scientists, farmers, officials, military people, police, all concluding that there's something happening here.
We don't know how this circle got here or this simple pattern, but it's here and we're investigating.
And that began to produce a pretty huge interest across southern England, especially through the late 1980s and into the early 1990s.
There was as if something really serious was going on.
Nobody could explain it.
And it was producing physical effects on the ground that can be studied and researched.
Rather than a fuzzy photograph or a bit of hearsay, we had at last something tangible and real.
Now, you say that, but you saw it on the TV.
Did you go and see it for yourself?
Back in those days, no.
I mean, I was at school.
No, it didn't.
It kind of largely left my mind, actually, back in those days.
And I began, you know, continued researching UFOs and hidden history and the suppression of other types of information, etc.
And then in 1996, I just happened to pick up a copy of a magazine, a Nexus magazine, the magazine in my opinion, and it had a centerpiece spread on the crop circles of 1996.
And I'm not sure if your listeners are familiar with the specifics, but in 1996, there was a whole batch of crop circles across southern England that were highly sophisticated in terms of mathematics and geometry.
They were large fractal spirals or circles over hundreds and hundreds of feet of farmland, one in particular, right next to Stonehenge, and there was a very interesting story attached to it.
And it really grabbed my attention at the time.
And just in a nutshell, the story was that there was an air taxi pilot flying tourists around and over Stonehenge.
I think it was July the 8th, 1996.
And that pilot flew over Stonehenge in his helicopter with tourists looking around, obviously photographing, doing whatever they do.
And nothing there.
Flew back 25 minutes later and there was a 915 foot long spiral of 151 circles arranged in a very sophisticated mathematical formula, a fractal, right across the street, right across the road from a stonehenge and right within eyesight of the busy A303 highway there.
All of a sudden in the late afternoon that road was jammed up, everything was stopped and people were piling into the field.
Before around about that time, 5.30 in the afternoon, the road was free, flowing, traffic, no problem, and there was nothing in the field.
So it seems that that crop circle, according to the report at the time, and according to subsequent reports, showed up in a half-hour window, a 915-feet long spiral.
And you have to say, don't you, I'm sorry to interrupt you.
You were talking about the A303.
Now, the A303 is a great big elastic band artery that goes right across the west.
And on both sides of it, as you go past Stonehenge, there is pretty plain view.
So if somebody was trying any jiggery pokery, trying to create something or trying to unveil something that was faked up, people driving in their cars, and there are thousands of them every hour on that road, would have seen it.
Oh, yeah, no doubt.
There has been other croc circles in that same spot over subsequent years.
And standing on the roadside, it is plainly and blatantly obviously there.
Also, it's worth noting that Stonehenge itself is very slightly elevated from the road and the position where the croc circle was.
And apart from the fact that there are hundreds or thousands of tourists there all day, every day, there's 24-hour guards there all night, every night.
It would be an incredibly difficult location to go and creep into anything and do anything essentially.
You're absolutely right, because Stonehenge is a tourist site.
There is a tourist center there.
It is protected and guarded these days.
It wasn't always that way, but certainly these days it is.
So if you were doing something untoward anywhere near that, and because of the elevated position, you would be seen.
Yeah, and the sophistication of the pattern itself was really impressive, really impressive.
I'm not a mathematician, but I know how difficult it is to draw a fractal spiral, the kind of curvature that you get on the back of a snail shell or nautilus shell, the mathematics of nature, essentially, how nature produces things and grows.
To do that on a piece of paper for me, I'd be messing up and chucking my piece of paper and doing it.
And this had never happened before in a crop circle.
And all of a sudden, there it was, 915 feet long.
Absolutely, mathematically perfect.
First go in a highly visible location in what seems to be within a half hour window opportunity.
Suffice to say, in 1996, that really grabbed my attention and that shot a sort of little bolt of energy or something up my spine.
And yes, I had to go.
You know, I just wanted to go to see this for myself.
I was even looking at some of these patterns.
That was just one example from that year, thinking, is this for real?
Is this kind of some way computer generated fraud or a con?
Because it just seemed too perfect in a sense and too difficult.
And too, if I was going to go and do something illegal, which obviously creating a crop circle is, I wouldn't choose one of the most high visibility locations I could think of, at least as a practice run.
I'd go and do something somewhere up.
But it pretty much dragged me into Wheelchair for the following, that was too late that year, but for the following summer, 1997, I came to Wheelchair from my home in Devon.
And did you have to give everything up to do that?
I mean, I don't know what you were doing back in Devon, but did you have to throw up your life there and just go?
And what was your life there?
Well, to a degree, I mean, yes, but I mean, you know, in a sense, since around about early to mid-1990s, I'd more or less committed to full-time research of various types of anomalous phenomena.
So I was only moving my physical self, luckily, possibly you could call it luckily.
I wasn't, you know, married or children or committed.
I was kind of pretty much free to get up and go wherever I pleased.
And so I did.
But it was only a short-term expedition.
I had expected to give myself a week.
I'd get down there on the ground and I'd have a look.
You know, in my mind, I'm thinking, okay, if this is a hoax, obviously people are pushing those plants down.
And if that's the case, they're going to do damage and there's going to be patterns of damage and there'll be evidence to show this.
And I was kind of half expecting to find that.
I can't help being very skeptical, even about the things I'm most fascinated in.
In fact, the more fascinated I am, the more skeptical I become.
But, you know, I had to go.
It's the only way.
My way of doing things, and I've done it on several other related types of subjects, you have to go and live inside it.
And it has taken me to actually other parts of the world and to other related mysteries where, suffice to say, to me, to get to really properly understand the situation, especially if it involves humans in any way, you have to get inside it, live in it, understand the wider dynamics,
how the farmers feel, talk with them, local people, people that claim to be making them, get right inside the subject, live it, breathe it, to the degree where I'd even sleep inside the circles whenever I found them, just to see if anything would happen.
So I arrived in 1997 and quite quickly founded my first crop circle.
And I was immediately impressed.
I was kind of like, okay, this is it.
It was in early June, 1997.
So the crops were young and green.
It was a barley field.
And you say you found it.
How did you find it?
Through a strange little kind of synchronicity, in fact.
I was actually, obviously at the time I didn't have a home here, so I just brought a backpack of backpack with me, no tent or anything, backpack full of food and some army boots and a bit of army surplus Gore-Tex, so I could spend my night out every night watching fields because obviously no point in bringing a tent, you can't see anything when you're in a tent.
But the funny thing was, I was actually, I was just wandering about the countryside.
I'd really never been to this immediate area before, so I didn't know anybody or any place or anything really.
And I actually came to Avebury on a bus, the place where I'm actually now living, and wandered into a local tourist shop.
And as I walked in the door, somebody had just spread a map out on the counter and I heard him say, oh, there's a new crop circle there.
So in point of maps, what we're doing.
Talk about synchronicity.
Yeah, so I kind of like went over, like demanding, where, where, you know, and, you know, I was kind of pretty excited because I really wanted to see my first crop circle.
And he showed me where in Tadala.
It's about, you know, six or seven miles to the south of Alton Barnes, a famous crop circle location in itself.
And if you go down this track and walk across there and go there, it's a two-hour walk.
And I walked straight there across the landscape, found it.
And immediately, the first thing that struck me about this crop circle, I was as green as the plants.
I didn't know what was real and what's not for sure, you know, so I had to just take it as I found it.
But the first thing I noticed about the very first crop circle I went into, it was lapped across the top of a hill.
So it was like as if it had been dropped onto the top of a hill.
So its center point relative to the edges, its center was probably about four or five meters higher than the actual edges of this circular design.
And the first thing that struck me was, okay, I couldn't put a peg into the ground in the middle of this and take it to the edge to scrape out any kind of outer marker because my rope or string or whatever would be down on the ground because of the curvature of the hill.
And it just struck me immediately, well, if I was gonna go and make something like this, I'd kind of do it on the flat bit of ground over there, not on the most awkward part of this field.
Yeah, you know, I mean, I was looking at it from a fairly green perspective, but I'm just looking at it.
I was looking at it in a very simple, logical way.
Okay, I'm looking, I couldn't do this in its physical position, how it is presenting itself right now.
So then obviously I got down on my hands and knees and started looking at the plants.
The way they were bent over was to any kind of crushing or physical damage to the plants.
And this was the first morning that circle had shown up.
There was already a few people wandering about in it.
And I'd be, you know, very well aware, especially in the current times after 18 years inside the subject, that once people start walking around inside a crop circle, it would be like the police going to a crime scene.
After people had walked all over it, it would be confused.
And it would be hard to come up with definitive conclusions.
So very important to look at them quickly.
Okay, and you did look at it.
And the conclusions that you came to were that this was quite remarkable.
But beyond that, what else could you say?
Well, tentative conclusion was, yes, I can't explain this.
Crop circle, I couldn't find a pattern of damage which would indicate It had been put down with any kind of physical devices.
So then I had to pretty much sit back and think, well, this is about as far as you can go with physical.
You can look at it and you can kind of think about it, but then you kind of stopped.
So, okay, so this is possibly something mysteriously manifested, but why and how?
And, you know, there was all of those questions.
And the funny thing was, I was going to spend a night in that crop circle.
I'd spent a couple of hours in it, wandering about, talking with people.
It was the first time, actually, interestingly enough, I ever tried dowsing.
There was an American lady in there who I later found out had been researching crop circles for a couple of, well, at least a decade or so before I arrived on the scene.
And she was messing around with some dowsing rods.
And there's me, oh, God, here we go, dowsing, you know.
So she offered them to me, just try this.
And I'm like, well, God, you know, I'm going to be dowsing my wishful thinking, I should imagine, because, you know, I understand that it works, but at the same time, it's a discipline and it requires a stillness of mind and a bit of mental discipline.
Otherwise, like me, one would dowse their wishful thinking.
But I took the dowsing rods, expecting nothing.
And I walked out of the crop circle.
And when I, then I, you know, held them in the appropriate position, walked into the crop circle.
And as I moved over the edge of the crop circle from the standing crop to the laid crop, those rods, for whatever reason, like flew, flung themselves apart in a really pronounced way.
I could feel them tugging on my hands.
And it's like, wow.
And we have to say, this is a pretty common effect.
I've seen television documentaries going all the way back to the 1980s where people, scientists, have gone and dowsed in these things.
And those dowsing rods have, exactly, as you say, been all over the place.
Yeah, and it's hard to come up with any definitive conclusion as to why that is.
I mean, obviously, this area is laden and loaded with energetic significance, you know, in terms of ley lines, energetics, the positioning of the ancient sites.
You know, was I dowsing some ley line or energetic underground water source?
Was it the effect of a real crop circle?
Was it just the fact that this load of crop in front of me is flattened right next to this load of crop which was standing?
Would that create some kind of effect?
There was all sorts of variables to consider, but I must say, my first attempt at dowsing in my very first crop circle did kind of shore up my belief at the time that this crop circle was probably something manifest mysteriously and not produced as some sort of hoax.
And I had kind of steeled myself to sleep in that crop circle that night.
But for anyone that's familiar with the area, it attracts a huge number of visitors in the summertime from all over the world.
And a lot of people showed up in that crop circle and they were drumming and chanting and meditating.
and there was pretty much everybody doing every kind of alternative thing you could imagine.
And I know this, you've almost got to get there before the party starts, haven't you?
Yeah, I mean, as a, as a, you know, obviously in later years, you know, I became more or less a full-time field investigator of the crop circles phenomenon.
And that, you know, from a field investigator's point of view, I'm kind of jumping forward 18 years, but I want to get there immediately before anybody touches it.
You know, to me, a crop circle that's older than lunchtime is too old to even is too old to consider it seriously because you just do not know who's been there, what they've been doing.
I've been to crop circles at dawn, which I found early in the morning, which look amazing in very delicate plants and there's no damage and they physically present as being genuinely mysterious because there isn't a physical tool that can produce the effect observed.
I've been back at lunchtime and it looks like a bad hoax because it's either been deliberately trashed or it's just been mashed by hordes of tourists.
Sometimes, you know, the buses will pull up alongside fields, 30 or 40 people will get out and the whole circle will be trampled within 10 minutes.
And obviously then any observable evidence is completely confused and gunged.
Charles, you know, periodically the media has a little frenzy or the newspapers have a little bit of a reporting fiesta with these things and they appear in the press and then it goes away.
The thing that we have to try and remind people of, if they weren't aware of this, is that the crop circle phenomenon, even if it isn't in the papers, even if it's not on the telly or people are talking about it on the radio, is actually still ongoing.
And this summer, from what people are telling me, was a good one in your area.
Yeah, it depends on how you would measure good.
I think you bring up a very valid point there in the sense that the crop circle phenomenon, as well as ongoing, is actually very ancient.
The earliest records of crop circles go back to what's the earliest known record of what seems to be a crop circle, 1678.
And there's an actual depiction in a very ancient version of a modern newspaper, they call it a woodcut, and it's a hand-drawn little newspaper pamphlet that would get presented around a local vicinity.
And this happened to be in Heretfordshire, England, in 1678.
And it clearly has a depiction of what looks like a little devil-type creature flattening out an oval area in a field of crop.
And that was the first and earliest report.
And there were sporadic reports ever since then, some particularly noteworthy reports, especially in slightly more modern times, but before the whole subject became very, very popular.
Even famous British astronomer Patrick Moore was looking at crop circles in the 1960s in the Warminster area, where there was a huge UFO flap situation happening at the time.
But Patrick Moore personally saw strings of crop circles in fields at that time.
And to him, at that time, that was entirely mysterious.
Now, obviously, around about 1990, the situation became highly elevated in public consciousness worldwide because of the transformation of the phenomenon from very simplistic, smallish circles to huge, highly expressive pictograms covering six, seven, eight hundred feet of fields sometimes.
And these hit the media like a bomb.
And the one thing the media discovered, and the media keeps rediscovering things, you know, the Daily Express, Daily Mail newspapers here, I think there was some report over this summer.
I seem to remember when I was doing radio, I think I saw the papers, and one of the days there was a crop circle formation.
These things, the bigger ones and the more complex ones, only really make sense from the air.
Oh, yeah, I mean, some of them are vast.
I don't know if you're familiar with the largest crop circle that ever happened.
It was back in 2001 at a place called Milk Hill, just about half a mile from the location of my very first crop circle, actually.
And this was a galaxy-looking type of spiral covering 700,000 square feet of flattened crop, around about 1,000 feet in diameter, consisting of 409 circles.
That's 409 circles arranged in a kind of galaxy-like spiral, six spiraling arms.
Huge.
That was filled up actually most of the field.
And that was huge.
And that got international attention.
Like, I actually had a phone call from CNN whilst in that crop circle late in the evening, wanting to know what the sunset was like from the crop circle.
And so when something big at that kind of level happens, something like that had never really happened before.
The world was kind of used to crop circles, but this was something of a whole new order.
When you just considered the basic maths of it, we knew that the weather was incredibly bad.
It was a stormy, wet, windy night.
It was absolutely horrible.
That was the most elevated location in the local vicinity.
And it is known that that 409 circle spiral appeared within a five and a half hour window.
If you just do the very quick maths on that, it's like one circle every 40 to 45 seconds.
And the largest circles were around about 80 feet individually in diameter, the smallest about three feet.
So just from a purely logistical point of view, it's like, wow, is that even possible from a mechanical point of view?
Five and a half hours in that kind of weather.
I was actually out on a night watch that night about a mile from that location.
And I remember actually sitting under my little kind of army surplus poncho thing with the wind and rain blowing in my face, thinking, God, there's no way is there going to be anything happening tonight in terms of hoaxing.
Well, some people have suggested, haven't they, Charles, that this is connected with the weather and that somehow wind vortices and that sort of thing can actually create these patterns.
I don't know how they could to that degree of complexity, but I've heard it suggested.
Yeah, I mean, I've seen lots of kind of random damage from all types of weather phenomena, regular, mundane phenomena, and it doesn't produce anything that could be considered a crop circle as incoherent, mathematical, sharp-edged designs.
I mean, I'm familiar with at least one case where a resident in Wiltshire physically saw a crop circle forming and it did seem to come along with a kind of a well-organized, tight kind of vortex tornado type of effect where he glanced across a field or his attention was caught by a kind of what looked like a smallish tornado in the field chucking bits of crop up into the air and that left a perfect circle.
So that's one eyewitness report from the 1980s.
There are other eyewitness reports that include all sorts of other mechanisms.
There's one thing which does seem pretty sure that the mechanism for the creation of individual crop circles cannot be the same every time.
There are so many differences in the types of crops, the reports that people come forward with who have witnessed, a friend of mine back in 1991, someone I'd known for a long time, still know, witnessed a crop circle forming and this involved a globe or a sphere of light coming right across.
He was actually on a night watch watching a field of wheat that night and he saw a globe or an orb of light fly across the crop from his left to his to his right, stop about 100 meters in front of him and he said that this orb of light, which was about the size of a football, expanded out to about 30 feet.
So it appeared then like a 30 feet kind of ellipse or disc, shimmering light downwards onto the crop.
And he said that all of that crop underneath this shimmering disc began to shimmer, shake, and then the whole thing swelled to the ground in a second or so.
The light then contracted, flew off the way it came, and there left in the field was one single perfect 30-foot diameter circle.
And almost every single account you get of witnesses seeing crop circles forming, it's kind of different.
It seems different every time.
I mean, I would imagine the mechanics of whatever is happening here, however paranormal it is, it still has to interface with physical stuff on the ground in the three-dimensional world.
So it requires some degree of mechanics.
And I would imagine, just from a field investigator's point of view, that has been looking at crop circles for the last 18 years, hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of them in all different types of crop, you know, wheat, barley, grasses, rye, oilseed, rape, canola, maize, sweet corn, flax, linseed, dramatically different types of plants.
Some are incredibly delicate, some are huge, robust plants.
So there has to be variables in the way the actual genuine formations are formed.
And from a field investigator's point of view, obviously I prefer the more delicate plants because the more delicate plants show evidence in a much more obvious and objective way.
What sorts of evidence?
Well, if we take, say, the oilseed rape, you know, the yellow flowering stuff, canola, they call it in the US.
I'm sorry, can we just hang on for one second?
My cat is kind of like really irritating me in the background.
That's fine, I'll keep talking.
I mean, one of the things actually you may have heard in the background that this is the country, and Charles has a country cat who came in at the beginning of this recording and has been meowing and purring.
I don't know if you've heard noises.
I was going to explain this before, but that's what's been going on.
So, what you can hear now in this barn in the middle of the country, and it's dark out now in England, you can hear a country scene of the cat being let out with Charles.
He lives right in the middle of this phenomenon, and it is something that has been in the media, well, as long as I've been aware of these things, 20, 30 years.
But as Charles says, there are reports of phenomena like this that go back an awful lot longer than that.
And they appear every year.
I was just talking to our listeners here, Charles, about you living in the country, and you have a country cat who has to be let in and periodically let out.
Yeah, I've actually just left the window open now in the rain, just so the cat can run in out.
So we're not going to get disturbed again.
But just to pick up on your question, the evidence and the physical effects on plants, what I could actually like to do is just describe an experiment that we'd done this summer with a very popular TV show, Ancient Aliens, where we actually had a crop circle reproduced by the best circle hoaxes in the world in a very delicate type of crop,
or so you're a canola, to actually see physically, in a definitive way, what can and cannot be done in this type of plant.
So the ancient aliens, people called me up and said that we want to do a show about crop circles.
And immediately my thinking is, okay, God, this is going to be another mainstream television debunk in a sense, because mainstream television generally trivializes this kind of stuff.
And it usually ends up being a waste of time.
But they seemed pretty good.
They seemed okay.
And I suggested that we, they wanted to get a crop circle reproduced that people, just to show that people can make crop circles.
And I pointed out to them, of course, that, well, people have been making crop circles for television, advertising, media campaigns, and various types of advertisements for the last 20 years.
So we already know people can make shapes in fields with planks of wood.
And that's not really that impressive or amazing.
I could make a shape in a field with a plank of wood, and it wouldn't really prove anything apart from the fact that I could make a shape in a field.
So I suggested to these people, let me choose a circle that I felt was genuine, that presented with real physical evidence, and then we'll try and get the best team of circle hoaxes in the world to reproduce this.
And let's look at the physical effect.
There's no need to examine, we know they can make a shape, so we're not too worried about the fact that they're going to make this shape because they will.
They get paid lots of money to do that kind of thing on a regular basis.
So they let me choose a circle, which happened at a place called Golden Ball Hill.
Pretty evocative name in itself, but a crop circle that appeared at this Golden Ball Hill in 2005 was in this oilseed rape canola plants.
And just to give the listeners an idea, these plants have very thick, chunky, celery-like stems.
And when you bend those over, there's two options.
If the ground is soft and sandy, it'll lift the root bundle out of the ground and the plant will then be on the ground.
Or if it's fairly firm ground, the plant, the stem will just snap.
One thing for sure, when you physically manipulate these types of plants to the ground with a standard three-foot-wide plank of wood, which is the tool of the crop circle hoaxer, if you imagine you lift your leg up with a plank of wood on the end and you push those plants down and the layer of plants across the top, which the back edge of that board is touching, a big crease and a crush mark appears on the stem and then they have to drag that board forward over the flower heads to take the next step to flatten the next patch.
And in the process of doing that, they've created a huge crease across the stems, a big scrape mark up the stems, and then usually a significant amount of damage to the flower heads if the flowers, if the heads are in full flower.
So there's a very clear, and that's a repetitive stamping kind of process that creates the overall pattern from a human point of view.
And obviously from a field investigator's point of view, that presents as a very clear pattern of damage in the crop.
So I said to ancient aliens, yeah, here's one from 2005, which presented with none of the evidence that would suggest it was mechanically created, i.e.
all of the plants seem to be very neatly curved out of the ground.
There's no scraping or bruising to the stems at all.
And all the flower heads remain in perfect condition.
There is nothing in terms of physical tools that I'm aware of that can produce this effect in a field.
Therefore, I'm suggesting that this crop circle is real.
And so if you can hire the best circle hoaxes in the world, I'll find a farmer with a nice yellow field and we'll buy it off him and we'll reproduce the circle.
And to the credit of ancient aliens, they pretty much let me direct that and have it done.
I found the farm, we bought the crop, they sent over their crew and we made the circle.
And that show has actually just been aired and it is linked now on my website, silentcircle.co.uk and it can be seen there.
Just out of interest, how much does it cost to buy a field of oilseed rape?
Well, when I say we didn't need to buy the whole field because the circle was only 100 or so feet in diameter.
What did you like to buy a bit of it big enough?
Well, a lot more than your crop's worth, that's for sure.
The value of that crop, which was pushed down by these people who made that circle, was probably not much more than £50, literally, as animal feed.
It's just rubbish, literally.
But, yeah, I can't really say exactly what the...
I was just sorry to take you down that path, but I was just interested, really.
I would say, you know, I could ballpark figure, a farmer would get paid several thousand pounds to have a circle like that put on his land.
Okay, and so.
You did this thing with ancient aliens, and these people created this crop circle.
What did it look like?
From the air, it looked almost as good as the original.
You know, the edges in places were a little Bit more ragged.
I would say this is a 100-foot circle.
It took in daylight, it took them a team of four people, and they are acknowledged as the best crop artists, they'd rather call themselves in the world.
They do all the commercial, pretty much everything you've ever seen on TV in terms of crop circle TV advert, you know, nice shapes for the Olympics, shapes for new cars, shapes for microchips.
They do all of that stuff.
They do all the commercial stuff and they're acknowledged.
And they're a commercial enterprise, and I don't really have any problem with that.
They're okay people.
And they were commissioned to make this circle.
And they knew that I was going to be coming down and I was going to be critically examining it.
It wasn't about the shape so much.
They did make a shape and it was okay.
It was passed off almost as good as the original.
The deal was that as soon as they're given all the time they want to do it without any kind of interruption, without anyone else standing on that crop, so we get a clean look at what they can really do in this type of crop.
So they finished a circle and as soon as they finished a circle, I get mic'd up and I go into that circle with a camera crew and point out the difference between this one relative to the original in 2005.
And for anyone that watches the Ancient Aliens show titled Circles from the Sky, they'll see very clearly the differences and it was dramatically different, you know, as I had just explained, you know, the crushing, the scraping of the stems, the destruction of their flower heads.
And it proved the point in a nice, simple, clear way that yes, people can make shapes in fields, that's not the point.
When it comes to the actual physical impact of human manipulation of these types of plants and pretty much any other types of plants, it's completely obvious if you know what to look for.
So using, in my experience, using the actual physical, you know, using an aerial photograph and seeing an impressive looking pattern from the air is not a measure of whether it's real or not, because pretty much almost any crop circle that has ever appeared can theoretically and feasibly be done by people.
You have to be there on the ground and pretty quickly.
And what about changes to the structure?
I'm talking about the external and the internal structure of the crops.
A lot of talk about the effects of things like radiation that appear to have manifested themselves.
Talk to me about that.
Sure.
There is a research group based in Massachusetts, United States, BLT Research, and for the last 20 years or so, not so much in recent times, but they had conducted significant studies of the worldwide crop circles phenomenon, not just from here in southern England.
In fact, southern England is probably the most problematic area to actually sample from because it's the focal point.
It's where all the media comes.
That's where all the hoaxing is concentrated because people's egos are people's egos and they'll go to the focal point.
But BLT Research did a pretty systematic study covering at least 15 years, taking a sampling of crop circles from all over the world where they would send people out to crop circles.
I used to do it myself for them and take very methodically soil and plants from the crop circle and obviously control samples from out in the field miles away from the actual circle.
And these plants would then be delivered to the laboratory for physical analyses and tests.
One of the interesting components of the BLT research was the fact that they were taking seeds from the laid crop, from within crop circles and planting them to test the actual growth and germination potential of these seeds.
Had these microwave energies, if you like, had any kind of effect on the potential for these seeds to be grown.
And according to their research, yes, there was a marked increase in speed and vitality of plants grown from laid crop from within crop circles, which is obviously very fascinating for most people, I should imagine, that are interested in this kind of thing because, again, it's something that's physical and tangible and real.
And there was one time in the late 1990s where I decided to actually put this to the test myself.
I went to a crop circle that I determined was real for my own reasons and took some seed heads from the layered crop inside the crop circle and took two or three seed heads from the field well outside the range of the crop circle as a control sample, took those home, planted them in two trees, obviously with the same soil, gave them continuously the same amount of water and just watched what happened over weeks and months.
And over weeks and months, it became pretty quickly apparent from the word go that the seeds that I had taken from the crop circle, for whatever reason, were growing twice as fast and twice as lush.
And they continued, both trays continued to grow.
And by the end of my experiment, about two and a half or so months down the road, I had two trays of plants standing in my kitchen window, one dramatically different to the other.
You know, I'd say there was a 50% difference in the vitality, the height, the general lushness of these plants.
So to me, it really did conclusively prove in a kind of simple, non-scientific way that something really had happened there that did affect those seeds in a way that I absolutely could not explain and I still can't.
And the question is, what could have done that?
I mean, could those seeds have been irradiated to actually change their composition to effectively genetically modify them?
Yeah, I mean, it raises all sorts of questions.
And I really don't know.
I really don't know.
I kind of always generally, when it comes to things like this, leave it to people that really are experts in those types of fields and do you know what they're doing.
But it's interesting, isn't it, to do the experiment that you did.
Look, if this stuff is going on, it makes you wonder, doesn't it?
And you must have wondered this.
If you're doing this, surely somebody in the government, in our government, in the U.S. government, in other governments, surely they must be interested in this.
Because there is a phenomenon To be investigated, whether it's ultimately disproved, who knows?
But there's something going on.
So that begs the question: are they doing it?
Have you met anybody from an agency who might be involved in researching these things?
You know, it can't be just you, can it, who's looking into these things?
No, obviously not.
No way.
I would say from my own experience and my own research that in the very early 1990s, You know, they were on these news reports that I was watching back then as a child.
You know, they would have military people being interviewed.
You know, we don't know what's happening, they would say, and they would have the police say, we don't know what's happening.
And the farming officials would say, we have no idea what's happening either.
But in the background, it was always in my mind that something else was happening.
And then in the very early 1990s, when the subject rocketed in terms of complexity and size and became big in the consciousness of people, pretty much all over the world, with the huge pictograms that began to appear,
it seemed at that point that somebody somewhere made a decision that this subject needs to be just toned down, calmed down or something, because it was grabbing the imagination of people all over the world.
It really was getting huge media attention.
And I think to the systems that run the world and keep the things the way they are, regardless of where the crop circles were coming from, I think it's quite possible that they would have been seen as a threat because they were impacting on people in such a way where people would begin to really start to ask questions, you know, big questions about, you know, what's really going on in the world.
How much do governments and systems really know?
You know, people were beginning to ask the big, fundamental, deep questions about nature.
More than that, Charles, people perhaps would start to ask questions that the powers that be, the authorities, have no answer to.
And they want to appear to be, it seems to me, as all-knowing as you can be.
They certainly don't want to be coming back to the people who are asking questions with answers like, we don't know what's going on, because that is undermining their authority.
Yeah, obviously the systems that control the world in general present a version of reality that they can account for.
If there's something outside of that box that they can't account for, and other people start making a lot of noise about it, it perhaps needs some degree of suppression to keep the current system's credibility alive.
But who knows for sure?
But to answer your question, I'm absolutely certain there's elements, at least, of our military industrial complex, the military establishment that have done and do have a serious interest in crop circles.
And I say that with such assuredness because I've seen them physically using their helicopters in daylight to closely examine crop circles.
I've seen them in close proximity to crop circles chasing strange orbs of light.
I've seen them doing things.
Hang on, let's not lose that point.
You've seen them chasing orbs of light.
Yeah, on several occasions.
It's a kind of relatively regular thing in a sense around here to see military aircraft and helicopters in very close proximity.
Well, we have to say that Wiltshire is one of the homes of the British Army.
That's where they do their training and exercises, isn't it?
Of course, yeah.
I mean, we're only 20 or so miles from Salisbury Plain, and it's the most significant and largest military training facility in Europe.
And one has to be acutely aware of that, of course.
But there's a difference between regular military equipment and regular military training, and I'm very aware of it.
My family has a military history.
I'm very aware, especially living in this area for so long, what's standard military training and activity and what is not.
And when I'm sitting on top of a hill and I see a helicopter tear past me in a general direction or something strange hanging in the sky, and then the helicopter stops at that location and then that object disappears, and then the helicopter disappears the way it came, it suggests to me that that helicopter was on a very specific mission.
And it's also worth noting, actually, that the types of aircraft, the military aircraft used in these types of operations are not standard green army or air force helicopters with machine guns on.
These are black unmarked helicopters with all sorts of gadgets and pods and antennas and things hanging off them.
And I've seen them in such close proximity to crop circles for such a long time and in such close proximity to anomalous lights that I'm sure that somehow they're using technology to detect these types of phenomena and then being vectored into those scenes to see if they can interact with them or I don't know what.
When was the most recent occurrence then?
When did this happen most recently?
The last really close military helicopter activity, I would say, was about four or five years ago.
And this involved actually my partner, who happens to work in a local hospital near Marlborough.
And she was actually driving through a place called Savanak Forest, which is quite a regular spot for crop circles.
It's wheat fields dotted in and around that forest.
And at that time, it's a really fascinating story, actually.
She was driving through the forest because part of her job in the hospital in that part of Near Marlborough was to visit people at their homes and determine their requirements for leaving hospital.
She was not even particularly interested in crop circles, but a very level-headed person.
She was driving through Savanak Forest, saw two helicopters go over the top of her car, and as she kind of cleared the elevation, come out into a huge kind of clearing of the forest, which is a huge area of wheat left and right of the road.
And as she drove along this flat, she saw a helicopter hovering over the field.
And she said it was so odd and so low that she stopped the car to Get out and have a look.
And she climbed up on the wire and saw that the helicopter was hovering directly over a crop circle about 30 to 40 feet above the crop circle.
At which point, she actually phoned me, you know, my cell phone, and you know, explained what's going on.
I'm like, I hear this.
She said it was essentially one of these Apache gunship-style machines, but she said it has no markings on.
And she's explained to me on the phone.
And as she's talking to me on the phone, she says, you know, hang on, hang on.
There's like, there's a point of light or something underneath it.
And she saw a point of light emerge.
And bearing in mind, this is my partner that I've been with for 10 years.
This isn't someone I have to worry about.
He's making up silly stories.
She says, there's a point of light underneath it.
You know, it's in the air beneath it.
And I'm like, what do you mean?
And she said it's expanding.
And what she was seeing and explaining was this helicopter hovering directly over the crop circle with a small point of light emerging underneath it and then expanding out to what she said was about a two meters or diameter orb of light hovering between the crop circle and the helicopter.
And she said when it got to this maximum size, it began to kind of vibrate and bounce around underneath the helicopter.
And the helicopter was more or less moving in tandem with it.
And that was in place for 20 to 30 seconds.
And she's on the phone explaining this to me.
And then without any kind of notice or warning, this orb of light or whatever it was zips off into the distance, almost at breakneck speed and gone within the blink or two of an eye.
And interestingly enough, you know, she was kind of slightly kind of like, it was really weird.
The friend or her work colleague in the car sat there, didn't even move from the car, was frozen in place.
But the point was, when this went, the helicopter and the second one, which was parked itself, you know, several hundred meters away down the field, picked themselves up into the air and flew away the way they came.
That indicates to me that they were on a very specific job there.
So there are two things we can, as we bring this conversation to a close, and I want to talk with you again about this.
Possibly, you know, maybe I can even come down there and we can do a location recording.
It, of course, brings us to the crunch question, the killer question, doesn't it?
Is it, assuming that there is some phenomenon here, it's not a bunch of hoaxes, and from what you said, how could all of them be that?
It's unlikely, but, you know, who knows?
So it's either something that we have harnessed and have control of, and that's what your partner saw, or we are following in the wake of something and trying to track it and understand it.
Which do you think it is?
I think it's the latter, actually.
I'm pretty sure, you know, just from basic observation, feeling, and a few conversations with some relatively high-ranking ex-military people, that yes, they know something weird is going on the same as I do.
They don't quite know what.
They certainly can't control it.
Maybe that's why there's a suppression of this type of information, because if they can't, like you said, if they can't control it and they can't explain it, then the best thing is to pretty much deny it and put it all down to hoaxing, because that's the easy answer.
And that's what, to be frank, that's the answer a lot of people want.
But the basic reality is on the ground here, if you take the physical evidence on its own for crop circles, there are at least a smallish percentage of the crop circles that absolutely cannot be explained in terms of human mechanics.
And that evidence comes in the form of thick, chunky plants that push themselves to the ground, it seems, and are left with absolutely no damage.
Absolutely opposite to the physical effect people produce when they hoax crop circles.
So yeah, a lot of crop circles are hoaxed, but that's neither here nor there, really, in the same sense that the UFO phenomenon.
It's full of hoaxing, it's full of ridiculous stuff and full of silly YouTube videos.
But in amongst that, at the core, there's a long-range historical phenomenon that absolutely cannot be explained and therefore is absolutely fascinating and potentially really meaningful for us.
What are you going to do next?
Continue to do field investigation of the subject.
I'm kind of hoping that at some point definitive evidence in terms of something that can be presented on a really wide scale will happen, i.e.
the video recording using several devices, various witnesses, something like that, you know.
But I'm not so sure that any level of, I mean, to me, the evidence is clear and it's definitive and there's no doubt about it.
Some crop circles are absolutely real.
It doesn't actually really matter the percentages, but some crop circles are absolutely real.
But when I kind of look at the subject, when I stand back from this, you know, my focus in on it, which is just field investigation, when I stand back from the subject and I look at it and I see the way it draws people in and people interact with something mysterious and the kinds of questions that develop in people's minds because of this kind of interaction, I think sometimes definitive answer might not really be the ultimate thing because, you know, obviously if you've got an answer for something, you're going to answer for something.
You're going to stop looking and stop seeking.
And to my mind, it's the perfect contact situation insofar as the individual, like me back in 1996, 97, you know, I happened to see this in this magazine and something kind of went up my spine.
Like I knew deeply that this was kind of important and I had to interact with her.
And I was drawn and driven to do that.
And on the course of that journey, I've, you know, researched and found out so much about human history, the suppression of human history, should I say, you know, human history.
So you're saying that the journey is as important as the destination?
Ultimately, yeah, you know, the journey is at least as important.
I mean, obviously, from a kind of egotistical point of view, I want to see answers and I want to record one happening so I can get it on the TV news and provide, but, you know, in a wider kind of pragmatic sense, the journey that it seems to take people on, it does have deep and profound effects.
And I think those kinds of effects on people are what really worry is the system because, you know, people start out looking at flattened patches of crop, but it's not long often before they start asking about, you know, well, human history doesn't make sense, the version I was taught at school, you know, geopolitics doesn't make sense, you know, who really blames.
The most dangerous thing to the system as We see it at the moment, and the system I think has multiple crises to deal with.
The worst thing for the system is that people start asking questions, Charles.
That will never do.
Listen, I've loved this conversation.
Marvelous to connect with you on this dark and stormy night, me here in London, and you in your converted barn out there in Wiltshire.
You know, creates a wonderful image for people listening to it.
We have to do this again.
And, you know, look, I have portable recording gear because it's cheap to buy these days.
So I've got some of that stuff.
I'd love to come down there and maybe, if you see a crop circle, discover a new crop circle, if there's something interesting, maybe we can record something actually on site, which would take us to a whole new level.
But Charles, thank you very much for talking with me.
If people want to know more about you and your work, tell me about that website again.
What is it?
It's been my pleasure, Howard, for sure.
And the website is silentcircle, www.silentcircle.co.uk.
And a lot of the stuff that I dig into and a lot of my crop circle related stuff is on there and sort of all over the place inside and outside of the subject.
You know, Charles Mallet, find it.
Charles, thank you very much indeed.
And thank you to your cat for being so well behaved.
Thank you, Howard.
Thanks, Charles.
Thank you.
Good night.
Charles R. Mallet in Wiltshire, in the west of England, talking about crop circles, a subject we will return to.
And I'd love to get your thoughts about Charles and what he said.
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