The Unexplained - Howard Hughes - Edition 203 - Klaus Dona

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April 30, 2015 - The Unexplained - Howard Hughes

01:06:09

Edition 203 - Klaus Dona

Big news about an ancient race of giants - from Austrian researcher/explorer Klaus Dona...

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	Across the UK, across continental North America and around the world, on the internet, by webcast and by podcast, my name is Howard Hughes and this is The Unexplained.
	Thank you very much for all of your contacts, the guest suggestions and the little snapshots of your life that you've been sending me.
	I'll do some shout-outs in a future show, but just thank you to all of the people who've been in touch.
	A guy who goes to see and takes my shows with him.
	Many, many other people just telling me the day-to-day stories of how these shows are useful to them.
	And I'm so grateful to you.
	If you can make a donation to the show, that will be great.
	You can go to the website, theunexplained.tv, and there's a link there that will allow you to do it through PayPal.
	If you want to send me a message about the show, tell me how we're doing it, how it can be improved, you can follow the message link on the website, theunexplained.tv, and I will get to see all of your emails.
	As I've said, this is not like the mainstream media where a lot of emails just get ignored.
	You know, people think that they're making a point, and they think that it's being taken note of, and in many cases, not all, but in many cases, it simply is discarded at the end of the day.
	And maybe the person that you wanted to get to see your email never gets to see it.
	So the great thing about this show is that I do get to see each and every email that comes in, and I do get to react, which is why you're hearing so many of the guests that you suggested, including the one that is about to be on here, Klaus Donner.
	Very, very interesting man.
	More about him in a moment.
	Like I say, money is the key to all things in this world of ours.
	Money being much debated in the election campaign in the UK.
	By the time you hear this, the UK may well be about to be going to vote in the election or may well have just voted.
	But it's going to be a crucial one.
	And cash is always the key.
	So if you are able to make a donation to help us continue this, that would be fantastic.
	And thank you if you have recently done that.
	I'll do some shout-outs in the next edition or the one after, but lots of great emails, including an email from a man who listens to these shows as he's sailing around the world.
	He's a seaman and takes these shows, various downloads, wherever he goes.
	And he told me that story.
	It's just so interesting for me to hear the tales of how you use these shows and how you discovered them.
	You know, it means a great deal to me.
	And thank you very much indeed.
	Thank you to Adam Cornwell, as ever, my webmaster at Creative Hotspot in Liverpool, for getting the show out to you, devising the website, maintaining it and keeping the wheels cranking round.
	Vital, vital stuff that he does for us.
	And thanks, Adam, very much.
	Couldn't do it without you.
	As ever, quick appeal to Martin, who did the theme tune for us.
	Martin, trying to get in touch with you.
	If you can get in touch with me, that would be great.
	You know how to do that.
	And I would like to hear from you because you seem to have disappeared recently.
	And, you know, just let me know that you're still around.
	That would be great.
	Okay, guest on this edition, Klaus Donner, a man whose principal field of interest, I guess you would say, is the origins of you and I, how we got here, what we were like thousands of years ago, what the story that we've been told is, and how the story that we've been told may differ from what might actually be so.
	He's an investigator, researcher, explorer.
	He's been around the world, kind of Indiana Jones character, and very hard to pin down in a simple explanation.
	He's written books, he does lecture tours, you'll see a lot of his videos online.
	So I'm going to get him first of all to explain what he is and what he does before we do anything.
	More great guests coming soon.
	Duncan Rhodes will be a guest on this show soon.
	He's the man who is behind Nexus magazine, based in Australia, and the magazine, of course, famous around the world.
	Marcus Allen, the UK editor of Nexus, a regular guest on here.
	Got to get him back.
	But Duncan Rhodes should be, all being well, the next edition of The Unexplained.
	Thank you very much for all of your support.
	Please keep the emails coming.
	If you can make a donation, that would be great too.
	But, you know, just really great for me to know with this little show that I independently do that you're there.
	Right, let's cross to Vienna, Austria now, get to Klaus Donner.
	Klaus, thank you very much for coming on The Unexplained.
	Good afternoon, Howard.
	And it's wonderful to make a contact with Vienna, a very beautiful city.
	I want to make sure I have the pronunciation of your name right because people will ask me.
	I've been being very British, very London and saying, Donna.
	Is it Donna?
	Yes, correctly.
	Donna.
	Okay.
	Klaus Donna.
	Thank you very much for making time.
	A lot of people suggested you over the years and I'm really delighted to be able to make this connection now.
	In the last couple of days, as sort of research for this, I don't like to do too much research for interviews because then you make assumptions.
	And if you make assumptions, you don't ask questions that should be asked.
	However, I have watched a lot of your videos and done a certain amount of reading about you and I've come out of it not knowing how to describe you.
	So can you help me out there?
	What would you call yourself?
	That's a very good question.
	I would say researcher for ancient cultures and ancient civilizations.
	A bit of an Indiana Jones, then.
	I always say Indona Jones, not Indiana Jones.
	I should have thought of that.
	That's excellent.
	But because of the places you've been and the things that you do, inevitably you are in that sort of territory.
	You've talked about a great deal.
	Tell me the story.
	For people who've never heard you before and are not aware of you, haven't seen you on YouTube or anything, tell me the story of how you got involved in this.
	I did for many years big cultural exhibitions from Austria to Japan.
	And on my trips, I had a lot of time in the airplane airports and in the hotel rooms sometimes with Chetlek to read books.
	And I read many books from different authors, also from British ones, and about unknown civilizations or so-called uparts, out-of-place artifacts and so on.
	And I was very much skeptical.
	I didn't believe all those things.
	And one day in 1997, I had the idea, why not trying to get most or As many as possible of those unexplainable artifacts to Vienna and show it to the people, and especially show it to the scientists, and they can check them and find out that it's not real.
	So I started with a friend of mine in 1997, and with the help of a museum director, a good friend through my work with Japan, with cultural exhibitions, a museum director from a big museum in Austria, he helped us and he wrote lending letters.
	After one and a half years, we researched only pieces which are definitely in museums.
	And after one and a half years, he wrote letters to all his colleagues, museum directors all over the world, asking if they can lend us for the exhibition some of these artifacts.
	And out of 356 pieces, we got only one agreement.
	And it was only one and a half years before the scheduled opening of the exhibition.
	Good.
	Why do you think that museums around the world were so reticent to do this?
	I think it's very difficult for a museum to lend some pieces, which they don't know exactly what it is.
	Because, of course, usually if you lend a piece from a museum, they have to give you an exact description, what it is, where it was found and what it presents.
	But if you can't do that, I think an easy way is just to give an excuse not being able to lend it to you.
	And I suppose there's also an also face saving thing here, because if you're the curator of a museum or if you're a scientist working for a museum and you can't explain what this thing you have in your possession is, the last thing you want to do is to send it to somebody who might come up with an explanation and make you look bad.
	Exactly.
	Yeah, that's that's maybe that's one of the problems.
	So you can find many, many pieces in museums and you see just one one simple description, morphological object or ceremonial object.
	But no further detailed explanations, because that means nobody really knows what kind of artifact this is.
	Now, isn't isn't that interesting?
	Because I've as a child, less so these days, I'm ashamed to say.
	But I used to go to a lot of museums used to be taken forcibly by schools and relatives to museums to see things.
	And I can't really remember having seen anything in a museum that wasn't properly identified.
	Maybe I went to the wrong places.
	Maybe I wasn't looking.
	No, I made this experience in many places in South America that you can find many pieces presented.
	But as the only explanation you see, ceremonial object or, as I said, morphological object, because it's it's they don't really know.
	We don't know, really.
	What does it mean?
	What did the master who made it put into this piece?
	And how I suppose the question you would ask, and I have seen one or two things, actually mostly in Africa that have caused me to ask those questions.
	But you think to yourself, how did somebody a very, very long time ago get the necessary skill to make something that looks so complex?
	That doesn't compute with what we're talking, what we're told in school and what we're taught everywhere we go for education.
	That life is about progress, is about improving constantly.
	And yet here we see things from the past that don't fit in the past.
	Especially, I think, Howard, we could learn a lot from ancient civilizations through many of those artifacts if scientists would help more to discover it, to explain it.
	I mean, especially, look, for example, we learned that Columbus was the first who invented the United States, who found the Americas.
	And we found so many pieces, for example, in Ecuador.
	There is a small museum in Quito, and they present findings from around 500 BC until 1000 AC.
	You find small ceramic heads and you can see most of the known people from all over the world like black Africans, North American Indians, Asian, Chinese looking guys, Japanese looking heads.
	That means there must have been a contact already long time ago because this master who did those ceramics, they are age-dated by a very famous archaeologist in Ecuador and it was on different places they found those small ceramics.
	And that means for me it's an approval there must have been a contact already.
	So that on one level suggests that people in the past could travel in ways that we didn't give them credit for, but also suggests a sort of global civilization.
	Exactly, because that's another story we found out through our researches.
	We found stones in Ecuador, in Colombia, in United States, in Illinois, in France, in Gloselle, in Calabria, in Italy, in Malta, in Turkmenistan, and even in Australia.
	And all these writings are completely unknown, but they are all the same, always the same.
	Well, isn't that amazing?
	Places so far apart.
	I know Malta and Italy quite well.
	Malta particularly.
	That you would find things that you would also find in South America in Malta is remarkable if it is so.
	Exactly.
	And also they found out in textiles of the Egyptian mummies, they found tabak and coca particles.
	That means there must have been already at the ancient time of Egyptian, must have been either a contact, global contact, or a global civilization.
	And as you mentioned before, traveling, we don't think until now or we don't learn at school that the Egyptian could travel already with ships to Australia.
	And that's a very interesting story because a friend of mine in Germany, he invented a sensational technology which makes him able to scan areas all over the world without going on the spot.
	And we did a scan over the so-called Sun Pyramid in Bosnia.
	Nobody until now, especially archaeologists, they cannot believe or accept that there are hidden pyramids in Europe.
	And Dr. Sem Osmanakic, he is researching since several years there in Visoko, in Bosnia, and he is now excavating a huge underground labyrinth.
	And we did a scan with my friend's technology over this mountain, over one mountain.
	Sam Osmanakic called it the sun pyramid.
	And we could show him at the presentation at the conference where I was invited, I could show them tunnel system inside this so-called mountain, even a room inside in about 120 meters deep.
	That means for me it is definitely a pyramid.
	And how does that accord with what we now know about, for example, the Great Pyramid of Giza and what is inside that?
	Yeah, the age dating is very interesting because as Dr. Osmanakic was forbidden to continue excavation work on the pyramid, he started a little bit away from the pyramid.
	He found a huge underground labyrinth which was precisely and completely closed with stone material.
	So he started to open it and until now they opened already, I think, about 300 meters with different side tunnels.
	And they found inside stones with encarving, with an unknown writing, and you won't believe it, it looks like the same writing we found in different countries all over the world.
	And as they found also organic material, he did on three different institutions age datings, and the age goes up between 29,000 and 34,000 years.
	That is remarkable, isn't it?
	And that goes counter to what they taught me in school in the 70s.
	Yeah, but here again, we have a very big problem for the science because, you know, we learned that the oldest high civilizations are oldest 6,000 years, like Babylonia, Mesopotamia, China, etc.
	They talk and we learn always about 6,000 years.
	So if now is the final approval that this is a pyramid and the age is approved again, then the scientists would have a missing link of how many thousand years, even more than 20,000 years.
	And how clear, Klaus, is this evidence?
	How easy is it to see?
	You know, there will be people who always say you're seeing what you want to see.
	You're filling in gaps by yourself.
	Is this very crystal clear evidence?
	It's crystal clear evidence that this organical material was tested on three different institutions.
	And the age is far over 20,000 years.
	That is stunning, isn't it?
	I don't know what to say about that, because that does run counter to a lot of things.
	But admittedly, people are saying now, scientists are saying now, that the ancient Egyptians were predated by another civilization, possibly cleverer than them, that was wiped out as they ultimately disappeared or were wiped out.
	So we are starting to understand more, but what you're saying is even more than that.
	And then when I showed these scans in my conference, it was filmed and it was put on internet.
	And I received an information, a request from America, if I can help two Australians, father and son, Evan and Stephen Strong.
	They are checking the area around a rock formation where you have over 300 old Egyptian hieroglyphs.
	And of course, when it was publicly, the explanation from official science was this is definitely a hoax.
	Somebody made it at the end of 19th or at the beginning of 20th century.
	Well, that's the problem, though, isn't it, Klaus?
	There are a lot of people, we know this, who create artifacts, who make up hoaxes, and they muddy the water.
	You are completely right.
	I know that also, and I had also already my experiences.
	But would you do 300, over 300 big old Egyptian hieroglyphs in carving in a rock at a place where 99.99% never ever somebody would walk by?
	I mean, it wouldn't be logical.
	If I would do a hoax, I would do it on a place where I'm quite sure that somebody will easily find it, right?
	So they asked me, I got in contact with them and they asked me if we Could do them a favor and make a scan over the area where those hieroglyphs are encarved.
	So, my friend did it and we found far behind the wall, we found a tunnel entrance going into the direction of the hieroglyphs and close before the hieroglyphs, we saw on the scan a big room and also my friend could detect inside, and that's even more sensational, bone material and precious metal.
	So, that means there is definitely a grave and the translation of the hieroglyphs is saying that the second son of Cheops was bitten by a poison snake two times and he died and he was buried there.
	So, we sent the scan to Australia and the following weekend, Stephen and Evan Strong, they went there at the location.
	We gave them the GPS position where we thought there is the entrance of the tunnel.
	And they went there the following weekend and they found under a huge amount of plants, they found a huge big stone wall and the entrance into the tunnel.
	And they sent me the photos and you can see exactly that this is a man-made tunnel.
	But after approximately 11 meters, the tunnel was blocked with stones, but also those stones, you could see that there was work on them because some of them are too precise for natural stone formation.
	And I asked them, when they called me and they said they found it, and they showed me the photos, I asked them if they had a big earthquake there.
	And they said, yeah, in the 19, I think it was 1976, in this area was a heavy earthquake.
	And I think this was the reason why part of the tunnel broke down.
	But at least we could help them to find the tunnel, meaning the explanation that there is an Egyptian grave and the hieroglyphs are correct, means that Egyptians were already able to travel 4,500 years before our time to Australia.
	So how big was this civilization?
	Enormous by our standards today.
	Oh, we are.
	Oh, we are.
	And even in United States, they found Egyptian artifacts.
	Why isn't this Why is it not on the front cover of the Scientific American?
	Why isn't CNN reporting this?
	This is always the big question.
	Because it would change a lot of the ancient history.
	You're talking about scientists and their vested interest.
	They should.
	I mean, for me, the biggest problem is that, for example, with a specialist on Egypt, you cannot talk about South America and vice versa.
	But I think they should work together to find so many similarities, which are here and there, and compare them.
	And maybe that would help to change the knowledge about our real ancient history.
	Do scientists get in touch with you, Klaus?
	Do they contact you to say, Klaus, this is amazing stuff, or Klaus, we think you're a charlatan?
	Do you hear from them?
	Mostly I'm a charlatan, but I have some scientists, friends.
	They really help me because they also agree that there is something different.
	And when were these discoveries?
	When did all this happen?
	remind me.
	You mean when did I came across, yeah, I continue when I was reading and I was skeptical.
	So after one and a half years, we had one piece and only one and a half years left.
	So everybody told me I should give up.
	But then we started to travel to South America, Central America, North America.
	We did a lot of internet connections and so on.
	And finally, 2001, in June, I could present at the exhibition Unsolved Mysteries 470 artifacts.
	And I found some scientists and they helped me.
	And they could not one time say that this is a hoax or a fraud.
	They really said, for example, a collection from Colombia, South America.
	I had material testing and then a friend of mine, he was the expert on precious stone and stonework.
	He checked the artifacts and finally, after more than two hours, he told me, I cannot tell you who made those artifacts.
	I cannot tell you when they were made.
	I cannot tell how they made it.
	But the only thing I can tell you, we are not able to do the same pieces out of the same material in our days, even with our high technology.
	Now, that's a very crucial point, isn't it?
	Because it's one thing to, look, in my hand at the moment, I'm holding something that I keep by my recording gear.
	It's a spear tip that I bought in Africa.
	And, you know, they were selling a lot of these things, and it's claimed to have been owned by a tribe a very, very long time ago.
	Now, I have not the faintest idea, because I'm not an expert, whether this is the real deal or whether it isn't.
	But I keep it here anyway, and I rather like it, and I'm holding it in my hand now.
	This is something we know these could be made because they were easily, you know, you just sharpen up a flint.
	They were doing that here in Britain.
	They were doing it in Africa.
	It's not a difficult thing to do.
	But if you're saying that something has been created that we could not create today, that's a big deal.
	It's a very big deal for me and that made me changing my mind.
	And I started more and more to research worldwide through internet, through my trips to several countries.
	And I found many, many more artifacts which would be very interesting to have scientific help to check them, to age date them and so on.
	What sorts of things are these?
	Are they all the same sorts of things?
	For example, I'm following the legends and mythology.
	And in my opinion, Howard, I think there is a lot, a very high percentage of reality in legends and in mythology.
	And what I was one day very much interested, I was invited to United States, to Seattle at a meeting with 15 elders of the big North American tribes.
	And they had a three-days conference, and I was invited.
	And the story was giants and little people.
	It was 2003.
	And from that moment on, I got many information about giants, giant bones, and especially from Ecuador, the story that 1964, in the south of Ecuador, there was a very heavy weather, and a part of a mountain plateau was broken down and they found very big broken bones.
	And the people there, they called the priest who worked in hospitals because they were scared because of those big bones.
	So he came and he checked them and he saw that these were the bones of a 7.6 meter human skeleton.
	And it took me a very long time to find out where this priest was living.
	And when I arrived at the place, unfortunately, he just one month before he passed away, but his family kept many of the bones and they allowed me to bring some of them to Austria to do further check on them.
	And was this the only source of those bones?
	You weren't finding them somewhere else as well.
	That was the only place you could get them.
	The very big one.
	But there are other skeletons found in the United States with 2.7, 3 meters, and even over 3 meters.
	You can find hundreds of newspaper reports from approximately 1880 up to 1923, 24.
	Well, this is where the detective work comes in, isn't it, Klaus?
	Because I suppose you have to look and see whether, even if they're different sizes, are they the same sort of design, shape?
	They were mostly the same type, the same human, like looking like Homo sapiens.
	But on the other side, in South America and 2001, when we traveled there to the famous Nazca Lines and also to Ica, where there is this very big stone library from Dr. Cabrera, we went into a small museum, a private museum, which is called Maria Reich Museum.
	And I saw there the most incredible human skulls, very long skulls, but what even some doctors told me, they do not think that these were elongated, artificial elongated skulls.
	Because this sort of thing did go on.
	Somebody I interviewed, I can't remember who it was, but a while back here, talked about the fact that ancient civilizations sometimes, I mean, it's a horrible thought, but deliberately manipulated human skulls to give them that sort of almost egg shape, didn't they?
	And there was some manipulation of human bones.
	This was worldwide.
	You can find artificial elongated skulls in Asia, in Europe, in Africa, and mainly in South America.
	But most of them are artificial elongated.
	That means when the baby is born and growing up, they bind some textile and wood pieces around the skull so that the skull is getting an egg form.
	Which is fascinating in itself.
	I mean, it's almost like an homage, an homage to something or someone else, isn't it?
	If you want to make your child look like that, you've got to be doing it for a reason.
	Yeah, and the reason nobody really knows until now.
	But those skulls in Ica, they are, in my opinion, not definitely not elongated, but natural, different type of human, maybe no Homo sapiens sapiens or Chromanio or Neanderthal.
	And also from Bolivia, I got many very good photographs of skeletons, human skeletons with a size of 2.6, 2.8 meters.
	And you can see we have on our top of our skull, we have three bone plates.
	And in the center, as a baby, we have the fontanella, which is very soft and getting hard when the skull is getting bigger.
	Those skulls in Bolivia, they have no on top of their skull, there is no bone plate line.
	That means it really looks like an egg head.
	Do you think, as some people have suggested, that giants, as they might be, have some kind of extraterrestrial connection?
	That's a big step, isn't it?
	Big leap.
	Well, there are a lot of stories going on about the Nephilims and the watches and so on.
	Interesting is a few months ago, I got a contact from a Japanese television station, and they asked me if they could come to Vienna to do an interview with me about giants.
	And I agreed.
	And when they came and they did the interview, they asked me if I would allow them to take one of the Ecuadorian bone pieces to Japan and they would try to do an age dating and DNA analysis.
	We tried here in Austria.
	A friend of mine is the only archaeological DNA expert in Austria and he checked it and he told me he could not find any DNA in the piece of bone which I gave him and he brought it back to me.
	How could he not find any DNA?
	It depends where the bones were, how old the bones are.
	If the earth surrounding the bones is contaminated, it can destroy the DNA, of course.
	So whatever surrounds the bones can leach into the bones and change their composition?
	Yes.
	Right.
	So he tried it, but he was not lucky.
	Even he did fantastic DNA analysis on Celtic skeletons, which are about 4,000 years old.
	And he could say exactly what kind of sickness they had, what problem, etc.
	So I gave up DNA analysis trial.
	But as the Japanese offered me to do it in Japan, I was informed they have a new system, new technology.
	I accepted, but they had to promise me to bring back the bone because after all the researches, these bones must go back to Ecuador where they belong to.
	So a few days ago, I got the telephone call from the producer and I was informed that the DNA analysis finally was successful.
	But it is not Homo sapiens sapiens DNA.
	And the age dating is 23,300 to 23,800 years.
	Good lord.
	And they're quite sure of this.
	And they are quite sure of this.
	Yes, they did a very serious DNA analysis and also age stating of the bones, of the bone.
	So they sent you back data.
	Did they send you back any suggestions as to what this might be?
	No, no, but I'm quite sure as far as I know, the Japanese, they did definitely checking if this is the DNA of a kind of animal.
	But there's no information like this.
	The only information was it does not fit the DNA of Homo sapiens sapiens.
	And how are I think a human being with a size of 7.6 meters, I'm quite sure that they would not have the same DNA like Homo sapiens sapiens.
	Well, for our American listeners, we need to say, and I know that you would have been schooled in meters in Europe here in the UK.
	You know what it's like?
	We have both feet and inches and meters and centimeters.
	In my school days, we were taught both, so I can do conversions.
	But 7.6 meters, we're talking about not far off 30 feet, 25, 30 feet.
	25, 25 feet, 25 feet tall, which is astonishing.
	I can't even imagine such a thing.
	Why do you think that such enormous people didn't leave a bigger impact on the earth then?
	I know it's a long time ago, but why do you think there are not more signs of them since they were so large and so prominent?
	Maybe they were destroyed through a global catastrophe, or you know that you can find also the story about the flood worldwide in any kind of civilization.
	There must have been a global catastrophe, but you find so many evidences concerning the giants.
	For example, when the conquistadors came first to Tia Buanaco in Bolivia and also to Teotihuanaco in Mexico, they were asking the indigenous people, did you build those buildings?
	And they always gave the same information.
	No, this was done by the giants.
	And also there is a documentation from one of the most famous historians of the conquistadors, Quiersa de León.
	In one of his reports, he wrote, today we found at the coast of Esmeraldas, that's the Ecuadorian Pacific Ocean coast, we found several skeletons five times taller than we are.
	So if you compare or calculate, the Spanish guys, they were approximately five feet, five to six feet.
	So five times bigger.
	We're talking 25 feet again.
	Would be again 25 feet.
	I don't know what to say about that.
	I don't know what to make of that.
	That doesn't fit with anything that we know.
	Yes.
	Again.
	So now you have this information from Japan.
	Yes.
	What can you do with it?
	What will you do with it?
	They send me this information and then I can make it public.
	Which is what you're doing.
	But what is the next step for you?
	Continuing trying to see some of these skeletons in Bolivia and ask also there if I might be allowed to take one piece of bone with me.
	And we can continue DNA analysis and age dating.
	And the more approval you get, I think it would be difficult then to avoid it.
	Will you now be looking for the places where this species lived, the tools that they may have used, maybe even simple spears, but very big ones?
	Will you be looking for those things.
	Oh, there are also so many reports.
	For example, in Ecuador, not far away from the place where the giant bones were found, there is a private museum, and there you can see a stone axe which is 70 centimeters.
	That's about two feet, a little bit more than two feet long, and it's made out of granite.
	A massive granite axe.
	A massive granite axe.
	And you can see even where it was binded and used.
	And the explanation, of course, in the museum is ceremonial eggs.
	But that's not the only one.
	I found one in a museum in Yerevan, in Armenia.
	And there also, there were found skeletons over three meters in size.
	And there is another report about Morocco that they found hundreds of very oversized big stone axes.
	Wow.
	And if you think about cave paintings, wherever you might see them, quite often cave paintings depict very tall spacemen with elongated heads, don't they?
	Does any of that tie into any of this?
	Yes, Cuevas de los Taios.
	Manuel Palacios, a good friend of mine and a very serious Ecuadorian researcher, he was several times already in a very big underground tunnel system in Ecuador called Cuevas de los Tios.
	And he sent me one photo where you can see a huge, big room with a door, I mean an entrance also very big.
	And there was, for me on the photo, I thought this is a man standing there.
	So it's not so high this hole.
	And I called him on Skype and said, right side of the entrance, is this a man staying there?
	And he was laughing.
	He said, no.
	You see the little black thing left from this.
	This is a friend of mine.
	And what you thought is a human, it's a human painting.
	And imagine.
	I asked him how high is this painting?
	He said, seven and a half meters.
	25 feet again.
	25 feet again.
	So what's your theory?
	What do you make of this?
	Do you think we're talking about extraterrestrials?
	Are we talking about a civilization predating us, running parallel with us at some point?
	What are we talking about?
	Many years, I always said I won't talk about extraterrestrials or UFOs and so on.
	I think more on very ancient civilizations.
	And this is one thing I still think so.
	And I also think that there were several times global catastrophes on Earth.
	But on the other hand, about three years ago, I received an email from Mexico and it was mentioned only top secret.
	And I saw that there are 10 photos also with this email.
	And I thought maybe someone is trying to send me some virus or so on.
	I checked it several times and then I opened the photos and I thought immediately this is a hoax.
	Because on some of the photos you could see extraterrestrials, you could see sun eruptions, black holes and so on.
	I mean things and so good that I thought immediately this is a hoax.
	But I answered the lady who sent me the photos what is the story behind.
	And she told me that a farmer found in a tunnel on his ground over 3,000 artifacts and he is scared to make it public because then the government might take his land and the pieces.
	And this farmer is a poor guy, but on some of the pieces you see inlays of gold and even precious stones.
	And thanks to God that this farmer is a serious man, another one would break out the gold and the precious stones and would sell them.
	Does that not sound a little unlikely to you?
	If this man was very poor, then why didn't he do that?
	Because he wants to know what is everything with those things.
	And this lady asked me, she said she was several years thinking whom to contact, and she saw some of my interviews and she told me she thought I am one of the serious researchers and that's why she contacted me.
	So I asked her to send me more material and until now I have approximately 1,000 photos.
	And one day, about two years ago, there was a conference in Germany and Nassim Haramein, the physicist from Hawaii, he attended the conference and I asked him to explain some of these encarvings because there is,
	in my opinion, there is a lot of knowledge in those encarvings and as a physicist he could explain it.
	But before showing the photos, I asked not making any film or photos.
	But one man made a film and he was putting this film on internet.
	Can you imagine?
	Even the alien and UFO fans were calling us cheater or tricky or fraudulent or whatsoever.
	Because believe me, those species are too good to be real.
	But in my opinion, they are real.
	Isn't that ironic that you didn't even put them Out there.
	But one thing, very, very interesting thing is every bad thing might have a positive thing.
	So, when this guy was putting it on the internet, even in Mexico, some Mexican guys watched it, and suddenly from Oaxaca and from Potosi and other places, indigenous people sent information.
	We have also since long time the same artifacts in our family.
	And now there are, until now, four regions with exactly very similar artifacts.
	Sounds to me like you have an expedition to create.
	Yes, in July.
	I want to see them all in original.
	And the good thing is, after we were attacked so many times, Nassim asked to get two stone masks.
	They were covered with a mosaic of semi-precious stones.
	So he brought those two masks to a university in the United States, and they found out that the gluing material is organic material which is able to be age-dated.
	And one mask was dated 8,600 years, and the second one 4,300 years.
	And there was even another interesting story about four months ago that I received a long explanation from Mexican institution.
	They did on some of the stones, a very serious research, and they also say that this is not done in our age or just a few hundred years before.
	So that means they are really original.
	So Klaus, your researchers are reaching critical mass now, and you've got an expedition planned.
	Is it getting too big for you to be able to handle by yourself?
	I always try to get help of some friends, and especially the best is always to get help from local people.
	And what about scientific research institutes?
	Is it time for them to get involved?
	It should be.
	It should be.
	But they're not interested?
	It depends.
	First of all, the most easy thing is you have to talk with the right person.
	And second, this person must have interest in those things.
	If not, immediately they would say, no, we don't want to have to do anything with those pieces.
	I always say we can find things, but we need the help of the official scientists because we are not able to get all the final results.
	So talk to me about this expedition in July.
	How will you compose it?
	How will you travel there?
	What will you be doing?
	How long will you be there for?
	I will travel there and I try to be at least 14 days there.
	And I have a friend with me.
	He is a very good filmmaker and photographer.
	And we try to do as many photos and filming of all those pieces.
	And he might stay even longer because only to make good photos of 3,000 pieces would take quite a time.
	And there are even more in the other collections.
	So then you've got to write a book.
	This is the only problem.
	Howard, I'm always asked, do you have a book?
	And I say, I have no time to write a book because I don't want to sit six months or maybe one year in front of the computer.
	I want to research outside.
	And I always said, when I'm getting really old, then maybe I take the time and write a book.
	And when that day comes, Klaus, I mean, we're all getting older, who will take over this work?
	I have a young friend who is very much interested, and I try to teach him everything.
	And he helps me also to control a little bit all the many, many emails and informations which I get from all over the world.
	Because as a one-man show, it is quite difficult to handle everything seriously.
	Do you get the feeling that perhaps some governments and officialdom may have known about some of this stuff before you discovered it, or before you were alerted to it?
	In other words, do you think that you may not be the first to know about this?
	There are many things which I know they were not public yet, but of course, many of the other things, they were already in several books and so on.
	But for me, every piece is a kind of a puzzle.
	And I try to get all the puzzles together, and maybe one day we really can get a good picture out of it.
	Well, it's the biggest jigsaw in the world, isn't it?
	Oh, yeah.
	Oh, yeah.
	What's your best theory?
	As we tie this conversation up, what is your best theory about what all this means?
	I think what we know until now is not everything.
	There is much, much more.
	For example, let's just talk about the age of Homo sapiens, sapiens or the age of humans.
	What I do not agree anymore through my research is I do not agree with the theory of Darwin because human lived already on Earth millions of years before.
	So what do we, I mean, that's not a big stretch, is it, to say that you don't agree with Darwin and that theory, because that itself was a theory.
	And before that, we didn't quite know what was the case.
	So it's inevitable, isn't it?
	As our knowledge increases, we are going to Get a better handle on who we are and where we came from.
	Exactly.
	And I think what we could learn out of the ancient civilizations, first of all, what was the reason of global catastrophes?
	Did they fight against each other?
	Because you have the translations of Mahabharata and the Vedas.
	They are writing about very, very strong light explosions and everything.
	They were writing about flying objects, the so-called Bimanas.
	And when I was in Teotihuacan and I met the chief archaeologist, Mr. Paredes, he told me that one day he found an underground tunnel connecting the sun and the moon pyramid in Teotihuacan in Mexico.
	And he opened the tunnel with his staff and he entered and he found a stone box, a big stone box.
	And when he opened it, he was shocked because it was filled with liquid mercury.
	And for me, the strange thing is that the explanation of the Vimanas in India, in the Mahabharata, it was saying that they used mercury for flying.
	So that's another very interesting puzzle piece for me.
	Well, a box of liquid mercury.
	Yeah, well, mercury is liquid, but how astonishing?
	It is.
	It is.
	Well, you have a big task on, and as you say, we're all getting older.
	You need another generation to carry this work on, I would have thought.
	But at the end of the day, my fear for you still is that you need to get some kind of official backing for this.
	Some kind of research institute at some university somewhere needs to be dollars behind you.
	That would be the best.
	First of all, I would be happy if we could get for our research financial support, but mainly I would be happy to get scientific research because we know already so many unknown archaeological sites worldwide from South America to North America, in Europe, in Asia.
	If we would have the support of a real official organization, we could really find incredible things like one thing in Easter Island.
	We did a scan over the Easter Island and we found several very deep underground graves where we could detect bones.
	That means definitely grave.
	We could detect precious metal like gold and even precious stones.
	That means there must be very important graves on the Easter Island.
	And then I checked Tor Hayadar when he did his first expedition to Easter Island in 1956 in his books.
	I found that he was writing, when we arrived at the old Easter Island, and one evening the old indigenous people told me that here on this place in the ancient time they buried the kings.
	So now you know there is no gold mining and there is no precious stone mining on Easter Island.
	And for me that means that might be one of the most important places of the never accepted sunken continent Mu.
	Because where would they have brought the skeletons or the dead bodies of the kings with gold and precious stones?
	Chile is far, far away.
	It doesn't make sense for that to be there unless it was part of something else.
	And you know, the most interesting thing is that always the graves are in a certain distance with the Muais, with the big stone sculptures.
	So it looks like the Muais are a kind of grave stone.
	And these people clearly have knowledge of geometry on a grand scale.
	Oh yeah.
	Oh yeah.
	Are you attracted by the idea of scanning Stonehenge here in the UK?
	We did it.
	Really?
	Yes.
	But I think nobody would believe us because we found in big distances from each other, for example, the first circle graves, a circle graveyard, and then the next outer circle graveyard and the next outer circle graveyard.
	In the first circle graves, there is no special material.
	In the second knot, in the third knot, in the fourth, yes, little bit, but the biggest precious stones and precious metal are in the outer circle graves we found.
	But to whom to talk?
	Everybody would just laugh about us.
	And of course, organizations like the one that protects Stonehenge, they're very defensive about those places.
	Oh, yeah, but the circus, the grave circles we called it, they are quite in a distance away from Stonehenge, surrounding Stonehenge, but outside the real area.
	You have a lot to do.
	When you go on the expedition, will you have communications?
	Will you be able to Skype and digitally connect with people?
	Sometimes, of course.
	It depends where you are.
	You know what I'm about to ask, don't you?
	Will you talk to me when you're there?
	Oh, yes, of course.
	I'd be very keen to do it because, you know, this is a story to be continued.
	I wanted to talk to you about crystal skulls, but I don't think we have time to do that here.
	So we need to do that again.
	I did a radio show a few years ago about crystal skulls.
	Oh, there is a lot to talk about.
	there's a whole conversation to be had for an hour, I think, about crystal skulls.
	Oh, yeah.
	But amazing to talk with you.
	Do you ever get emails from people in the scientific community commenting on your work?
	Yes, yes.
	I kind of asked you that before by saying, you know, do they say Charlotte and that sort of stuff?
	But I'm just wondering how often that happens, really.
	It's increasing, and I'm very happy about that.
	So this means that there are people, there's a groundswell, I think we'd say here, of opinion that's beginning to shift.
	Yes, definitely.
	And not only young ones, even older ones also, they think carefully about many of those unknown things now.
	And I'm very happy about because I never wanted to be against the science.
	We need the science.
	Without science, we cannot get any approval, final approval.
	And science, of course, is always filled with controversy, but science is always changing.
	What we believe now about the universe, well, we probably won't believe exactly the same thing in 10 years from now because we're understanding more all the time.
	Exactly.
	One question I should ask you just before we finish this.
	This is an expensive business.
	How do you fund this?
	I spent a lot of my money already and yeah, and I'm continuing.
	What's this expedition, though?
	I can imagine that being easily half a million dollars.
	No, no, no.
	You don't know me.
	No.
	I mean, I don't spend that much money.
	And mainly when you are only one person or two persons, you can stay wherever you want.
	We don't need luxury.
	And we have many friends in every country.
	So it's not that expensive.
	But still, it's expensive, of course.
	So could you do it on a tenth of that?
	Can you do this on $50,000?
	Yeah, of course.
	Okay, well, that's gratifying, but I suppose you still have to make that money back.
	So you'll have to do lectures and tours, and maybe one day you will have to write the book.
	No, I don't make tours because I say if I would make a tour with people, I cannot be concentrated on what's going on.
	And I always would feel responsible for the people.
	So, no, I don't like this.
	And we discussed the process of putting together some of these artifacts that were already in museums and the reticence of museums to hand them over to you.
	You will get to a point, though, when you have enough of your own or enough that you can access independently yourself, where you can have a grand exhibition in New York or in London or somewhere, won't you?
	Of course it would be possible.
	And right now, a good friend of mine promised me to finance the next exhibition.
	And we are thinking of 2017 to bring it again to Austria and show as many as possible pieces to the audience and hopefully also to the scientists.
	By which time you should, if this expedition in July goes the way that you would like it to, and it sounds like it might even surprise you more than you've been surprised in the past, it's going to include material from this.
	Yeah, of course.
	I already have the promise, the guarantee that I can get some pieces also.
	It's very hard to export those things, though, isn't it?
	Especially when countries, when governments get a sniff of the idea that there might be something fairly significant here to do with our civilization.
	No, because if you do it the right way, and this is what I did with the big cultural exhibitions from Austria to Japan.
	I made the planning, the logistics, everything by myself.
	So when I tried to get pieces from South America, I had to follow the rules to inform the government, to provide the insurance.
	Everything must be clear.
	And then you get the export, pre-import license.
	You are allowed to take pieces to Austria, but you have to bring them back.
	And I'm not a collector because many times people think I'm a collector and they offer me pieces.
	I'm not a collector because, in my opinion, those artifacts must stay in the land where they were found because they are not good for private collections everywhere on Earth.
	You clearly take a very ethical approach to it.
	And so anybody who might suggest that you've got a secret stash somewhere as a sort of retirement pot, they're completely wrong.
	Completely wrong.
	Yes.
	Fascinating to talk to you, Klaus.
	I'm really pleased that we did this.
	Good luck in July.
	I would be very, very interested in connecting with you when you're out there.
	I know you're going to be busy.
	But if you can spare some time, let's keep in touch.
	That will be good.
	I will call you.
	Thank you very much.
	Thanks, Klaus.
	If people want to know about you, just tell us your website.
	The website is also, this is another problem, Howard, it's already old because I have no time to do a new one.
	And I hope my younger son now will help me to do it.
	My website is www.unsolved-mysteries.info I-N-F-O and klausdonnerchronicles.com.
	Klaus, good luck in all that you do.
	Thank you very much, Howard.
	And I call you from Mexico.
	Looking forward to it.
	Thank you so much.
	Thank you.
	Thank you.
	The voice of Klaus Donner in Vienna, Austria.
	I'll put a link to him in his work, his videos, his books at my website, theunexplained.tv.
	And thank you to Klaus for making time to talk with us.
	And thank you to you for suggesting him.
	And Roger Sanders in California for helping to make this happen.
	Roger, thank you very much indeed.
	If you want to get in touch with this show, go to theunexplained.tv.
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	We have spread this show over the years like a bushfire, starting slowly and gathering pace and momentum through this year of 2015.
	And thank you very much.
	It just goes to show that even though this is a tiny little flea bite of an independent effort, we can still have a big impact.
	And it all depends on you.
	So have a great big pat on the back for yourself for what you've done for the unexplained, because it's 50% about us here and 50% about you there.
	If that doesn't sound corny or cheesy, because it isn't meant to be, thank you very much for your support.
	Until next, we meet here on The Unexplained.
	The guest on the next edition, by the way, ought to be Duncan Rhodes.
	He is the man who is behind Nexus magazine.
	We've often had the UK editor on The Unexplained, both on the radio show and the online show.
	That's Marcus Allen.
	But Duncan Rhodes is the guy behind the whole thing in Sydney, Australia.
	So he should be the next guest on this show.
	Looking forward to that.
	Until next, we meet here at The Unexplained.
	Please stay safe, stay calm, and stay in touch.
	My name is Howard Hughes.
	I am in London.
	This has been The Unexplained.
	Thank you.

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