The Unexplained - Howard Hughes - Edition 179 - Heidi Hollis

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Oct. 25, 2014 - The Unexplained - Howard Hughes

01:10:32

Edition 179 - Heidi Hollis

Heidi Hollis - in time for Hallowe'en - Shadow People, the Hat Man and Aliens...

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	Across the UK, across continental North America and around the world.
	On the internet, by webcast and by podcast.
	My name is Howard Hughes and this is The Unexplained.
	Thank you for coming back to my show as we get into autumn time or fall in the UK and US.
	There's a debate to be had about that word.
	I'll tell you more about that in just a moment.
	Thank you very much for completing our poll if you have.
	If you haven't completed our poll, then please go to the website now and do that.tv.
	The poll devised as the website by Adam Cornwell at Creative Hotspot in Liverpool.
	Please go to our poll.
	Just a few simple questions about the way you use this show and the direction you'd like to see it go.
	It will be very useful to us.
	We put the poll up a couple of days ago and have been overwhelmed so far, but we need to hear from everybody.
	So if you can just take no more than five minutes to do, please let us have that information.
	We will not use the data in any other way other than for ourselves.
	We don't pass it on to other people because, as I've said before, I hate it when companies and organizations do that to me.
	Thank you very much for your response to the last show.
	I am going to do some shout-outs and respond to a few of your points here.
	Maybe not quite as many shout-outs as we've done before, just because I want to get time for the guest on this edition of The Unexplained.
	But I want to talk about a word first that's triggered a bit of a controversy.
	The poll that we've got on the website is called the Fall Po.
	Now, as you will know, wherever you are, fall is a word that loosely refers to autumn time in the United States and North America generally.
	And I've had a few emails from people saying they don't like me, a Brit, using that word.
	Well, a couple of points to a couple of emailers, including one anonymous person who emailed, didn't give their name about this issue.
	Number one, I didn't title the poll.
	And number two, I did agree to the wording of the poll, which was put together by somebody else, because I didn't think particularly that it mattered what we called it, whether we called it an autumn poll, a fall poll, whether we called it a Laurel and Hardy Poe, or whatever, as long as we had a poll.
	But clearly the word seems to have upset some people.
	And, you know, I'm sorry if it has, but, you know, I understand, I think, what you're saying, that you don't want a British person using American words.
	But I thought we were one world, weren't we?
	That was the impression that I had.
	And people, having travelled a lot, and I don't want to sound like I'm preaching to anybody, I'm here to tell you that whether it's Soweto, Chicago, Sydney, Australia, or St. Helens in Merseyside, UK, pretty much people are people wherever you go.
	Whatever words they use to describe things.
	You know, there are good people and bad people, and I take them all as I find them.
	And don't particularly worry too much about whether the word I use to describe something comes from North America, comes from Australia, or comes from here in the UK.
	As long as it fits.
	But, you know, I take on board what you say.
	Let's go to some of your emails.
	If you want to email the show, you can go to the website www.theunexplained.tv.
	You can also send a donation from that website if you'd like to.
	That would be very gratefully received here to continue our work.
	And you can send me an email by clicking the link as well.
	Kevin in London.
	Good to hear from you, Kevin.
	You didn't like Linda Moulton Howe, our last show.
	Now, a few people have said that, and a lot of people liked her.
	As ever, Linda Moulton Howe does polarize the audience a bit.
	I find her fascinating, but I do understand that there are guests who are not universally praised, but maybe that's an indication that the person is interesting, because I find that in my life, interesting people tend to split opinion.
	I don't know, but Kevin didn't like the show.
	Mike Mosley wants me to talk about the killing of Jill Dando.
	If you're in America or another part of the world, you probably won't know about this story.
	Jill Dando was a television newscaster, one of the biggest names on TV in this country.
	Just over a decade ago, she was gunned down on her doorstep in a place called Gowan Avenue in Fulham in London, a nice part of London.
	She'd come home from work.
	I think it was afternoon time.
	It happened in daylight.
	And it has been a highly controversial case.
	And as yet, the mystery of Jill Dando's killing and how that could happen in broad daylight has never really been solved.
	Now, when anybody dies in these circumstances or circumstances like them, it inspires and promotes a whole range of conspiracy theories.
	And Mike wanted me to get into a couple of those.
	Mike, at this stage, I'm not sure whether we can go where you're suggesting.
	But I think, yes, it does need more investigation.
	I'm not sure whether now is the right time and whether there are authoritative people enough to talk to about this.
	It remains a mystery.
	Claire, thank you for your email.
	Doesn't want me to get Michiu Kaku on here, which I've been trying to do because she says that he is a mouthpiece for the system and is not worth having on.
	Well, thanks for your views, Claire, and the nice things you said about the show.
	Simon Beach, good ideas.
	Thank you, Simon.
	Tony Price, good email.
	Thank you very much.
	Joshua wants me to do a show about shadow beings.
	You'll like this show, I think, Joshua.
	Corrine, I hope I pronounced that right in Colorado.
	I take all of your points, Corrine, and I understand your situation and, you know, I very much relate to it.
	Yasser wants to know how big this show is.
	In other words, how big the audience is.
	Now, you will find, Yasser, that a lot of mainstream shows, maybe ones that are on the radio, and maybe ones that stream whatever, let's not say a lot.
	Let's say some of them are not exactly transparent about their listening numbers.
	And some of them may not have listening numbers quite as large as they may suggest.
	For this show, we tend to work it out on data.
	And all I can tell you is that when we've done big shows with big guests, we have had enormous, massive, gigantic rushes of data.
	And we're talking like tens and tens and tens and tens and tens of thousands of people and multiplied.
	So that's the way that we measure the audience.
	We want to get a more sophisticated way of doing that when we can afford it.
	And of course, money is at the root of all things.
	Glynn, thank you for your email.
	Wants me to get Lord Christopher Moncton on about climate change, global warming.
	Bill Pretschard wants to know about where Ebola comes from.
	I think there's a long line of people, including myself, Bill, and you who want to know that.
	Chris, a scientist, very detailed email, says he thinks that Linda Moulton Howe is wrong about a number of things, including RNA.
	What I've done, Chris, if you're listening to this, hope you are, that I passed your email on directly to Linda.
	And I'm hoping to hear back from her about the points that you make, and then I will tell you what she says.
	Robert in Australia, thank you very much for the good things that you said.
	Andrew in Canada, nice email, thank you.
	Janet in Chicago is suggesting a guest by the name of Heidi Hollis.
	Well, Janet, good news for you.
	She's on this show.
	Not a future guest.
	She's on this show from the United States.
	Ed, finally, suggesting John Anthony West on the subject of astrology.
	If you've emailed, and I haven't mentioned you, I'm really sorry.
	I can't get to everybody in this edition, but I do see all of your emails.
	And many, many thanks for taking part in the poll, whether it's an autumn poll or a fall poll or whatever poll you want to call it.
	Go to the website www.theunexplained.tv.
	And please, it would help us massively if you could answer a couple of questions just about the way that you use this show and help me to continue with it.
	As ever, thank you very much for keeping the faith with this little tiny show that is out there against the big media that doesn't always tell you the truth and doesn't always financially or in other ways work in your interest.
	For example, you know, some of these organizations put podcasts out there, but they want you to pay for material they've already broadcast and put commercials in.
	So it's paid for itself once and they want you to pay twice for it.
	I don't know what you think about that, but I'm not massively impressed by that model of doing things.
	But, you know, to each his own obviously works for them.
	All right, let's get to the United States.
	Now I'm going to talk about shadow people and other stuff because it's roughly a roundabout Halloween.
	And somebody suggested to me by my friend Roger Saunders in California again, and actually suggested by a few listeners, including the one that we mentioned just a moment ago, Janet in Chicago.
	Heidi Hollis.
	So Heidi Hollis, HH.
	My name's Howard Hughes.
	I'm HH.
	So HH.
	Hello, HH.
	Well, hello there, HH.
	How are you?
	Don't you think it's great being an HH, Heidi?
	Don't you think that's cool?
	Those initials just looks, if you put them on luggage, they look so good.
	They really do.
	Don't you think where you are at Chicago's O'Hare Airport when you're going through there?
	You can always find your bag because it's got HH on the side.
	Of course.
	Of course.
	Oh, boy.
	How is Chicago then?
	We're getting into...
	I've had criticism from some of my UK listeners because we're doing a poll on my website about future listening trends, and we've called it the fall poll.
	Because a lot of my listeners are in the US, and I didn't devise the poll.
	And frankly, I don't care whether it's called a Laurel and Hardy poll, a Charles Bronson poll, whatever kind of poll it's called, it's a poll.
	But I've had some British people, I think they are, telling me you're a British guy and you shouldn't use Americanisms.
	I think it's all very peculiar.
	Is it fall there now?
	Yes, it is.
	It's just starting to get a little chilly, but actually today it's like 70 degrees out, so it's awesome.
	In Chicago?
	70 degrees?
	I thought it was almost permanently freezing there.
	Not yet.
	Seemingly not there.
	Wait till the winter.
	You're going to have some.
	I've never been to Chicago.
	I've been to a lot of places in the U.S. Never been to Chicago, but they tell me that the chill experience, my friend Steven Johnny on WGN Radio there, I used to do a lot of hookups with them, and they used to talk to me about, you know, your nose hairs freezing and your eyes kind of glazing over with the cold.
	I can't do that.
	It's brutal.
	It's brutal.
	It really is awful.
	You know, I often wonder how people can live in a place that cold, but I'm told that Chicago has a million compensations.
	It's a friendly place.
	Number one, I hear, never been there.
	And number two, of course, you can eat around the world in Chicago.
	Oh, gosh.
	You know, it's really, really something else.
	I have yet to go to a bad restaurant.
	The food is exquisite.
	It's awesome.
	I must, well, listen, I'm going to make an appointment and come there.
	And you're very close to Canada as well.
	So you can just get across the lakes and go there.
	That's my elementary, rudimentary knowledge of geography.
	But there you go.
	Now, look, Heidi Hollis, Roger Saunders in California, whose judgment I trust in many things, tells me you're a very interesting person and tells me that you and I will get, he's like treating us like a couple of kids.
	We're going to go and play because you'll have fun.
	So we're going to wrap this time around.
	What I want to establish first of all is what are you all about?
	What are you?
	Are you an author, investigator, broadcaster?
	What is it that defines Heidi Hollis?
	Oh, gosh.
	Oh, my goodness.
	I cover so many topics.
	I guess, first and foremost, I am an experiencer of odd phenomenon from a young kid, having grown up in a haunted house and, you know, wanted answers.
	I was just a very curious kid and kind of went from that reading a lot and experiencing further oddities as far as seeing UFOs.
	And after joining a UFO group, I got harassed by the government.
	You're kidding.
	I've talked to a few people, but they're normally the sort of top-level UFOologists, ufologists.
	And they're the ones who told me that they're harassed by the government, but you were.
	Oh, yes.
	Okay, well, before we talk about the ghost then, before we get into anything else, what was your UFO experience and why on earth was the government interested in you?
	Well, I could not understand it either.
	You know, I'd seen a very, very large UFO.
	I'm actually from Wisconsin, downtown Milwaukee, Wisconsin, and I could not figure, you know, what the heck am I looking at?
	It was the size of three football fields, I mean, in length, and the whole body of this ship glowed an orangish red.
	There was no metal to be seen.
	I was with a friend, and I'm like, this is really happening.
	You know, it's lighting up the night sky, lighting up the clouds as it's going up and down.
	I mean, it was just amazing.
	And it was very much, you look up and all you could see was this ship.
	It took up my whole sight.
	That's how big it was.
	And it was being very purposeful in its motion and letting us know that it sees us and knows that we're freaking out.
	So this is literally real life close encounters of the third kind, something gigantic up there.
	And I suppose the first thing you think to yourself is, surely everybody else can see this.
	Well, you know, I have to admit, it was three in the morning.
	My friend and I were coming back from going out.
	We're not drinkers.
	We're chatting it up.
	And I see this far away light.
	And I'm like, what is that?
	You know, And my friend's like, I don't know.
	What is it?
	She was driving.
	And she's like, isn't that the moon?
	Because of the shape and the whole body of it glowing.
	I said, if it's the moon, it's going to land on us.
	And it just, boom, it's right over us.
	And my friend's just freaking out.
	Oh, my God.
	What is this thing?
	And it was just amazing.
	And I mean, she didn't talk about it for a year.
	She was that just shaken up.
	Me, I'm the type of person.
	Look, I'm going to talk about it.
	But, you know, to have gotten harassed by the government, that one was a shocker for me because I was a college student.
	I wasn't looking, you know, to get into any trouble or anything like that.
	But I actually had black helicopter hanging over my home.
	I got visited by people asking odd questions.
	Hold on.
	Hold on.
	Let's go back one step then.
	Before all of that happened, you said you talked about it.
	You must have reported it one.
	Did you go to the media about it?
	What did you do that evoked or rather provoked that amount of interest?
	Well, you know, what I did, because I couldn't believe, you know, it was nighttime.
	There weren't a lot of cars out there, but I couldn't believe that others didn't see this thing.
	So it was so huge.
	So I called the airport.
	I'm like, look, do you guys, excuse me, see this big massive thing down here?
	You know, just about, you know, it was like 10 minutes later.
	I called them and they're like, no, but what did you see?
	And I called the police.
	I said, did you guys get reports?
	And they're like, no, but what did you see?
	And presumably both of these organizations, the airport and the cops, took your details so they knew who you were and where you were.
	They did not ask for my name.
	I just knew that they couldn't help me.
	I'm like, I just called them and I told them what I'd seen and they just, you know, left it alone, essentially.
	I'm like, well, they're not a whole lot of help.
	But so I'd seen that big UFO and then I saw a couple others prior to that.
	But nothing, nothing to that, a comparison of that huge.
	And then a friend of a friend told me about this UFO, an alien abductee support group.
	And so I joined this group.
	And, you know, everybody in there was an abductee.
	I'm not an abductee, thank God.
	But it was interesting, you know, to go and join them and to hear all these horror stories of what these beings were doing to them.
	And I'd say it was about a month later that I got a black helicopter, unmarked black helicopter flying over my home.
	This is something that I've heard about, okay, and read about.
	And you listen to those radio shows in the U.S. and they talk about black helicopters quite glibly all the time.
	I can't imagine what that is like.
	They're supposed to be big and silent, aren't they?
	Oh, gosh, yeah.
	Well, it wasn't silent, though.
	That's the thing.
	This is the funny thing.
	I was outside mowing the lawn and it was an electric lawn mower.
	And I'm out mowing, and I accidentally tripped over the cord, and I expected to hear silence.
	And instead, it was replaced with a big whomping sound, you know, and I'm like, what?
	The trees are flapping side to side.
	I didn't hear it because, you know, I was mowing.
	I look up and this thing is so low, it looked like it was going to land on the house.
	I'm like, but it was, it was purposely looking, I could tell they were looking at me and they were tipped to one side.
	And I believe I saw what looked like a guy taking photos, leaning out of the helicopter.
	Okay, when was this, Heidi?
	And what was the gap in time between you having the sighting, joining a UFO group, all the rest of it, and this black helicopter appearing?
	How long was that?
	I want to say it was probably a month's time or so after I joined the group.
	And this is how many years ago?
	Oh, gosh, this was in probably 96, 95, maybe.
	Okay.
	Yeah.
	And you don't have to tell me ladies shouldn't disclose that.
	I'm not going to tell you my age, HH.
	That's all right, HH.
	I'm not going to tell you mine either.
	So HHs are a little cagey about ages.
	I'm fine.
	I'm going to have to come across the pond and hurt you, if we ask.
	So did you feel about.
	I'm sorry, that one filtered down through my brain very slowly.
	Did you feel that this thing meant you any ill intent then, Heidi?
	Oh, gosh, yes.
	You did.
	Okay.
	I mean, we're laughing about it, but this is serious stuff.
	It is.
	It is.
	Well, you know what?
	I've got a sense of humor about this stuff because it's like, how else does humankind deal with this stuff?
	And it's being as who we are, as humanly flawed as we are.
	And it's like, I always say I know how to clear a room when I want to by telling the most horrible stories, but when I want people to really absorb what it is I'm trying to get across, you know, I laugh, I joke, and I deal with it as I would any other topic.
	And then I see more curious eyebrows raised and people more interested instead of, you know, tearing out of the room.
	And do you know why I'm not saying, Heidi, your mental state must have been somewhat unbalanced then, or you were just plainly mistaken?
	And the reason for this is that I had an experience which I will briefly recap here because my listeners know about it.
	I've talked about it before.
	I used to do this show on radio nationally in the UK on the only commercial talk station, makes us sound very sad here, that goes nationwide in the UK.
	And it was getting really successful.
	And it was stopped when the station changed ownership and went all sports.
	But I had just done an interview with Paul Hellier, the former Defense Minister of Canada.
	And we were talking about a lot of these topics and getting some very interesting stuff going.
	And I do it in a really, I hope, in a serious and journalistic way.
	This is not a Gee Whiz show.
	It wasn't on the radio.
	It's not online.
	That's not what we do.
	So I don't like GeeWiz topics and I don't do Gee Whiz guests.
	But I came out of the building with my producer, Dave Brain, that night.
	That's really his name.
	David Brain, lovely guy, very hardworking young man.
	And we came out.
	It was 10 past 11 at night.
	We got off the air, handed over to the night crew.
	And across the road, this was the part of London that is only busy during the week.
	It's completely dead at the weekend.
	And my show was Saturday night.
	Opposite was a Jaguar car, Jaguar, as they call me in the States, black.
	Two men in black suits sitting in the front seats with a camera anchored to the dashboard pointing at Dave and me.
	And Dave was the one who noticed it first, because I'm usually completely, I was doing morning drive news on a music station and doing The Unexplained on a talk station late on Saturday night.
	So by the time I got to the end of my show Saturday night, I was usually physically and mentally wrecked.
	I wouldn't notice, If an alien had stood in front of me, I wouldn't have noticed it unless he tried to shake my hand.
	Dave said, Do you see what I see?
	And I said, I don't believe that.
	What on earth is that?
	So they got their pictures and they turned the car around and the black car drove away.
	And to this day, I don't know what happened there.
	But what I do know is that my show on radio, it's probably coincidence and it's just to do with the change of ownership of the radio station.
	But my show ended about four to six weeks after that incident.
	I'm sure that's coincidence.
	But that was a totally unexplained incident.
	Why were they interested in the pair of us, for goodness sake, doing a show, just talking about stuff?
	So that's why I don't dismiss what you're saying.
	But I will ask you the question because listeners will send me emails and ask me, was there anything going on in your life then?
	Did you have troubled circumstances?
	You don't have to go into any detail about them, but was there anything other than total balance about you?
	I had tough classes in college.
	I don't know.
	I mean, I'm a therapist now.
	So there was nothing stressful going on at the time.
	No.
	I mean, I actually, I had a roommate who came home and the helicopter was still there.
	I mean, I went, I flipped them off, you know, middle finger to them because I couldn't believe I'd heard of these things after attending this group maybe once or twice.
	And I'd heard of these helicopters before.
	And I'm like, oh my God, there goes one.
	This is exactly what they were talking about.
	You know, and went into the house, you know, stopped mowing the lawn and I sat there waiting for them to leave.
	And I mean, 40 minutes later, my roommate comes home.
	It's like, what's going on?
	And I'm like, I pull out one of my books on, you know, UFOs and stuff.
	I'm like, look, it's right here.
	That's them.
	And she was like, this is crazy.
	Well, what do you want to do?
	Call the police?
	I'm like, they're not hurting me, but they just look like they want to land on the house.
	I just, it was just the strangest thing.
	So, I mean, these things happen.
	It's like I, for myself, when it comes to people who really want to have that hardproof, hardcore evidence, I'm like, you know, if I went to a court of law and said that I saw somebody murder somebody else and sat there as calmly as I talk about a UFO or black helicopter hanging over my home, you know, they would believe me for the murder.
	But it's like, you know, there could be no body.
	You know, somebody might be suspicious.
	You know, but in this country, they would put that person in prison, but they won't believe me if I'm talking about such a thing as this.
	It's like, you know, sometimes you just have to take a person's word for what they're talking about.
	I mean, where's the glory in talking about this?
	And perhaps to some people, looking like a loon?
	I could really care less what people think, to be honest.
	Well, again, there will be people because, you know, I get all sorts of stuff leveled at me here.
	I am hopefully, hopefully, God knows, I've given up trying to define myself.
	You know, I just, I've got to the age where I really don't care.
	But I'm a journalist.
	That's what I do.
	And that's what I love.
	I love people and their stories, whatever their stories are.
	To make some money during the week, I do mainstream radio talking about real news stuff.
	So that's where I come to it from.
	But there will be people who will tell me she just wants to make a name for herself as an author and kind of talk show host.
	And this is just a way to grandstand, Heidi Hollis.
	Oh, dear God.
	I've been doing this for so many years now.
	It's been over 20 years.
	I'm like, there are better ways to go out and make a name for yourself.
	It's just so funny to me.
	It's like, I think because a lot of people are driven on ego and driven on, you know, getting, gaining something out of this.
	I don't know many people who write books on these topics, who do radio shows, who lecture across the country.
	I don't know many that make a living off from this.
	This is the myth about it all.
	A lot of people I talk with on here, and some of them are names.
	Let's not name the names.
	And you think, my God, they must be, they're so successful.
	They must be.
	We've got a word phrase here in the UK coining it.
	They must be really coining it.
	And they're not.
	Some of them are living on Social Security.
	That's been given.
	I've put more into it myself.
	You know, these conferences are, you know, on a shoestring budget.
	They can't afford to send for you.
	I'll drive out.
	I'll go do the lecture.
	I'll talk about this stuff.
	You know, it's really a passion-driven thing just in hopes of educating others because when your reality gets shaken up about the true reality of some of these odd things going on, you're like, oh, everybody's got to know this.
	This is amazing.
	And I know I'm a sane person.
	So you really want to try to help open up the eyes of others.
	And it's really a disturbing trend.
	You know, very rare do I get people that say, you're lying.
	You're making this up.
	It's very rare.
	In the beginning, there were more people like that.
	But I think a lot more people are starting to go, huh?
	I know a guy who's seen something and I believe him.
	Well, I've had people on this show who've told me when we have stopped recording stories like yours.
	So I don't discount what you're saying.
	And I just have to take you on face value because you're telling me you're not lying.
	So who am I to say that you are?
	Did you say that you had a visit from somebody?
	Were you warned off?
	You know, it was the strangest thing.
	I was really young, you know, and they do these things called census over here where they count how many people in the United States that are this shade, that shade, that, you know, we've got that here too.
	Yeah, I have this many children or whatever.
	And so you usually send in something and that's that.
	Well, I got a lady that came to my door and she was an elderly lady and she's like, well, you've been selected for this really rare census, you know.
	And, you know, can I come in and ask you some of these questions?
	I just want to make sure if you utilize these certain government programs or whatever.
	I'm like, sure, okay.
	I'm in college.
	I had like six roommates at the time.
	And I'm like, okay, sure.
	She comes in.
	This lady holds my attention for over an hour, pulls out this big booklet, and she's asking me these typical questions, I guess, of the real census saying, do you use food stamps, which is like free food program here in the United States?
	No.
	Okay.
	What do you think about the war that's going on over here?
	I'm like, huh?
	War?
	Yeah.
	I'm like, that's strange.
	And I'm like, I don't know, you know?
	And then she'd ask another question.
	Do you have any money in the bank?
	Well, I think I got five bucks.
	And then she'd ask, What's your spiritual belief in regard to da-da-da-da-da?
	And I'm like, What is going on here?
	I'd stop and I'd look at her.
	I'm like, But hang on, was this supposed to be?
	This sounds like the Church of Scientology or something asking doing one of the, because they, you know, we have people like that doing surveys on the streets of London.
	That's not the government.
	She said she was from the government.
	She had an ID.
	And then after she was done interrogating me, she said, okay, I'd like to speak to all your roommates.
	I'm like, I don't, I did not even know all these roommates.
	I had just moved in.
	I'm like, sure, next?
	And they're like, what was that?
	Like, I don't know.
	And, you know, it wasn't long after that, these strange roommates that I had, they threw a party where half of the college town came in and destroyed the building.
	And so we all got evicted.
	And I moved it to an apartment with one of the roommates that I got along with really well.
	And we're moving stuff in.
	I just plugged the phone into the wall, moving stuff in, and it rang.
	I'm like, oh, I haven't given this number out yet.
	Okay.
	I pick up the phone.
	It's the census lady.
	I'm like, what?
	I said, didn't I give you enough information?
	And the last time I saw you, she said, well, I'm to follow you for, I think she said two years or something.
	What?
	I'm not comfortable with this.
	I'm done, you know?
	And I didn't invite the lady over.
	She contacted my entire family, my best friend in another state.
	And these people in suits were showing up.
	My parents called me up saying, Heidi, what did you do illegal that we're having these two men in suits coming up questioning us about you saying, where's your daughter?
	We'll find her.
	We always do.
	I'm like, what is going on?
	It was the strangest thing.
	I mean, it really does say, do you know that movie, Enemy of the State?
	I love that movie.
	I do.
	Well, that sounds like something from, you know, Patrick Stewart from Enemy of the State.
	Oh, it was just bizarre.
	But what the stranger part was, so a couple of years later, I joined that paranormal, that UFO discussion group people.
	And, you know, they were asking, anybody here been harassed by the government?
	And I said, you know, a couple years back, I had a weird census thing, you know, survey.
	They said I was chosen.
	It was really rare, like one in, I don't know, 50,000 people.
	And half of the group turned around, looked at me, said, oh my God, I had the same census done to me.
	And I'm like, hold on.
	She said, this is really rare.
	What's the odds that there were like five others in this group who had the same census?
	It was really bizarre.
	So it was one of those types of things that, you know, that let me know that they had me on radar before I knew my involvement with any of this.
	And yes, I did see further things along down the line as far as UFOs and even having seen, as strange as it may sound, little odd creatures.
	I mean, just the funniest thing.
	It was like a comedy show.
	But tripping down memory lane, I actually, how can I say?
	I had the incidents where I woke up and I lived alone at the time.
	And this was, again, I want to say, maybe within six months of having joined that UFO alien abduction group, people.
	And I thought someone had broken into my home.
	I heard noises.
	I jumped up.
	I'm like, whoa, oh my God.
	You know, I don't have a phone near me.
	I'm just going to run for the door.
	I'm a single girl living by herself.
	Wow.
	And, you know, to my shock, I mean, I jump up.
	My door, bedroom door was wide open.
	And there were two little guys standing in my living room going through one of my bookshelves.
	And I'm like, what is that?
	You know, I'm thinking I'm about to be robbed or killed.
	I had no idea.
	And here's two child-sized things in my living room.
	And my horror turned to curiosity of, you know, I think I could take these little things on.
	You know, what are these?
	And I walk up to them and I walk in between the two of them and I'm looking at them because I'm just in shock.
	Here are these bulbous head looking creatures like the grays that they talk about in the movies, that they talked about at the meetings that I would go to, going through my bookshelf.
	And they stopped and they looked up at me.
	And, you know, people always describe these things as having like a slip for a mouth.
	These things had an O for the mouth, like, oh crap, she's up.
	What are we going to do?
	And I said, who are you?
	What are you, what are you doing here?
	And they had my stuff in their hands.
	I had a little photo album and one of my books.
	And I grabbed it out of their hands.
	I'm like, put that down.
	What are you, who are you?
	You know, I was just so amazed at what I was saying.
	And you're promising me that there wasn't the faint whiff of marijuana in the air that night.
	You know, I have not used that crap.
	You know, we have to, you know, people will ask me, and thank you for answering the question because people will say this is somebody who's got a mental issue or is high on drugs.
	So let's rule both of those out right now.
	Yeah, let's rule those out.
	They're probably so stoned.
	I just don't do that.
	So what do we, you know, you've got two, I can't imagine.
	I would freak if I had that experience here in my little home in the UK.
	What did they do?
	Did they say, well, ma'am, we won't trouble you anymore?
	And did they head for the door and then get in the spacecraft?
	What happened?
	Well, again, you know, the adrenaline's pumping.
	I'm just like, I thought that somebody had broken.
	I'm running, you know, run in there and I'm like, what, what, you know, what is this?
	You know, I'm about to run out the apartment.
	And as I was, I was questioning these two little, I mean, it's something the size of like a four-year-old.
	You don't really feel intimidated by these little itty-bitty things.
	And I heard noise behind me.
	I had a large walk-in closet.
	And I go there and I turn on the lights.
	There's two more in my closet.
	I'm like, whoa, what?
	Who are you guys?
	What are you doing here?
	And they're tiny.
	They're really little.
	And I hear more noise in my kitchen.
	I go to my kitchen.
	Two more are in my kitchen.
	They're going through my cabinets.
	And now when I'm coming in the rooms, they're, you know, their mouths are agape, like, and they're freezing where they're at.
	Like, you know, just shocked.
	I'm shocked.
	They're shocked.
	Why didn't you call 911?
	You know, first off, imagine the panic.
	And there's a lot of things that you could reflect on, you know, when I think about it.
	But it's, you know, I was in a panic thinking I needed to run for my life.
	I had no idea.
	You know, things weren't clear.
	Something was in my apartment.
	I lived alone.
	I felt like I just needed to run and escape.
	Well, listen, I totally understand because I won't go into my experiences, but I've had experiences that have been scary.
	And sometimes you do not react as people say you should because you can't.
	That's the reason.
	It doesn't come to mind.
	I was just thinking, Heidi, run for the door, run for the door.
	And then there's these little things in there that you're like, well, what?
	I've heard about these things.
	Oh my gosh, there goes one.
	There goes two.
	There goes three.
	So, I mean, my place was essentially just overrun with these things.
	Now, I was in the kitchen.
	There was the door, bathroom door to my bathroom was closed and the light was on.
	I'm like, whoa, what is going on there?
	I hear noise in there.
	I open up the bathroom door and I didn't realize, of course, that there was one right behind the door.
	So when I flung the bathroom door open, this one got knocked to the floor.
	And I'm like, this is starting to sound faintly comic.
	I know.
	Well, you know, it is kind of funny because.
	So you knocked one of these little guys over?
	I did.
	I knocked one over without.
	What was that like?
	What was the constant, you know?
	You know that if you accidentally bump into somebody, you know what a person feels like.
	What did that, what was the feel of that?
	You know, again, I was kind of numb with fear because I was just, I was in a panic.
	I just, I kind of flung the door open, you know, with quite a good sense of force, you know, like something's in the bathroom, you know, boom, you know, and I just flung it open.
	I have no idea.
	It didn't feel heavy, that's for sure.
	And so this, I saw, you know, what was behind the door.
	I looked and I'm like, he's knocked on the floor and he's got his arms up, you know, as if to block me, you know, like, you know, like he's afraid I was going to step on him or something.
	There was a second one that was grabbing something off the back of my toilet.
	And now all of the others, from what I recall, they had no clothes on.
	This one had like a little jumpsuit on that was grabbing something from the back of my toilet.
	And again, I'm frustrated.
	I've asked all of these things.
	Who are you?
	What are you doing here?
	What's going on?
	You know, I was shaking.
	You know, it was a fearful thing.
	And none of them are answering me.
	This little one had the clothes.
	I grabbed it by its clothes.
	I am sorry to say, Howard, I did.
	I picked it up and I shook it.
	And I'm asking it, who are you?
	What are you doing here?
	And, you know, it's funny.
	I've spoken about this for years.
	And people are like, you know, the lady who choked an alien.
	I'm like, well, you know, you just don't know what you'll do in an odd situation.
	But I picked this up and with every word, I'm shaking it, asking it, who are you?
	What are you doing here?
	And the strangest thing happened, Howard.
	I heard in my head, I'm your nephew.
	I'm your nephew.
	And I knew it was coming from the one on the ground that I had accidentally knocked over.
	And I looked to it, and I am not kidding you, I watched this thing change before my eyes into my nephew in a baby blue suit and an afro.
	And I'm like, you're not my nephew.
	You look like him when he was 10.
	He's 20-something now.
	I'm like, what is going on here?
	I turn my attention back to the one that I have in my hands.
	And that's when I realized the one that I have in my hands, when I have it like within inches of my face, because I had picked it up.
	And this thing did not look like the others.
	This thing had a bulbous head, but it was flesh colored.
	It had freckles.
	It had curly tufts of hair on top of its head.
	Its eyes were large, but they were human and blue.
	And I'm like, I felt like I had just terrorized a child.
	This thing kind of looked like one of us, but not exactly.
	It looked like a combination.
	So I think you're trying to tell me that at least one of these things was a hybrid of some sort.
	That's what this thing looked like.
	I didn't know what I was looking at.
	And was trying to resonate with you by using, presumably you're close with your nephew?
	The one on the ground was a gray that had changed to look like my nephew.
	The one in my hands looked like this half human, half alien.
	So, I mean, I don't know what goes on in these situations.
	I mean, I've never heard of a situation like this, but maybe they have the capacity to turn into something that you can be familiar with to try and reduce the threat from you or empathize with you or something.
	Look, I'm just throwing stuff out there.
	I don't know.
	You know what?
	You know, it took some time for me to realize, you know, not at the time because, you know, everything was a blur, but I had taken a small photo album out of the hands of the initial two that I'd run into, and there was a picture of my nephew dressed in that exact suit with his hair like that.
	So it was trying to project that image to you, maybe.
	Indeed.
	I have a feeling that there is at least one person listening to this right now, somewhere in the world, just about to hit the email to tell me, why don't you get hard scientists back on your show?
	Why have you got wackos like this on?
	I don't know what I can say to that person who's just about to send me that email.
	Can we head that email off at the pass?
	What do you want to tell them?
	This is the world of debunkers.
	This is the world of people who just like to have nothing better to do but to sit there and point the finger and say, you're wrong.
	Look, I know my reality.
	I would never tell a person, you know, who got into a car accident or who was driving and had a sudden flutter of the heart and felt faint, say, prove it to me.
	Prove it to me.
	You had a flutter of the heart and you felt faint and then you had a car accident.
	You know, come on.
	You know, it's just, it's so silly.
	I really don't entertain the people who think and speak like that.
	really don't run into that so often any longer.
	I mean, there's, there are If you're doing podcasts like me, you must get them as well.
	Oh, I got 250,000 listeners, and I rarely get the people.
	I really don't.
	I get a lot of people saying, well, yay.
	You know, somebody that talks about this, you know, casually, I mean, what am I to do?
	Go hide in a corner and say, oh, they might laugh.
	You know, I could really get a laugh.
	You've got to do if this really happened to you, then My advice to you is to talk about it and, you know, it sounds really highfalutin, but live your truth.
	And yes, you're talking about a phenomenon that I've discovered with what I do here.
	Within the last two years or so, the people who want to listen to you will listen to you.
	And the ones who resonate with what you're doing will resonate.
	And the ones who fire brickbats at you, then they will, most of them, disappear.
	And now the critiques that I get are mostly reasoned, intelligent critiques.
	And the rest of them have gone away.
	So you've experienced that phenomenon too, by the sounds of it.
	Now, look, I want to talk to you.
	Tell people to turn the channel.
	I mean, there's so much more to listen out there.
	If it really disturbs you, go ahead and flip it.
	You see, I'm too polite and British to do that.
	You see, this is where I need to.
	I need to learn that from a Chicago, and I can't say, look, if you don't like it, turn it off.
	Which I think I did say that once to somebody.
	But anyway, look, that's very much by the by.
	I want to talk about something that I read about you online that may not be true.
	You are apparently one of the very few people who makes a link between so-called shadow people and aliens.
	Is that right?
	Yes, it is.
	I started the whole trend in talking about these shadow people.
	Well, look, there are one of the reasons my listeners have been asking me to do shadow people for a few years now, and I haven't done it as a topic because there are so many very weird people out there talking about shadow people, and it's really hard to have an intelligent discussion about such a thing.
	But I want to get into that now.
	So what do you think?
	You've written a book about them.
	What are shadow people?
	A lot of these talk show hosts in the States love to talk about them because you'll always get people listening.
	You say, I'm going to talk shadow people tonight.
	What's a shadow person?
	First, I wanted to say when it comes to the shadow people topic, it is so hilarious to me how so many people take it upon themselves to go, this is it, and that's what that is.
	And, you know, when I wrote the book in 1997, no one had spoken the word shadow people.
	When I started sending my book around to try to get published, you know, suddenly it was not until I published it that I actually heard others had mentioned the name.
	But it was only a couple months earlier that I heard that somebody had mentioned it on a radio show.
	And I'm like, I said, oh my gosh, you know, I'd sent it to an author who was a publisher.
	I wonder if he's kind of leaked the topic out.
	But I was the first and only person to name the topic of shadow people and the Hatman phenomenon.
	So I'm known for having named those two.
	So the information that I had in regard to them, and I was a college student when I wrote the book, I didn't have anything to refer to.
	I had no idea what it was I was experiencing.
	These things were coming at me and I needed a way to address it.
	And, you know, to kind of link what I was talking about in regard to the little beings that I'd run into my apartment, this goes hand in hand with it because here, you know, I was not an abductee.
	I still am not an abductee.
	I join a group.
	These little aliens guys show up.
	And almost immediately after that evening, I started seeing shadow people.
	I'm like, what is going on here?
	I just got rid of these little guys and now I've got this big hulking menace.
	And what I first saw was something that I called the head and shoulder shadow, which looks like a big black mass with a head attached directly to its shoulders with red glowing eyes.
	They're difficult to see through.
	Sometimes you can kind of see through them, but they give the most intimidating, threatening presence that you could ever imagine.
	Now, I grew up in a haunted house.
	I know what a ghost feels like.
	I know what a ghost looks like.
	These are not ghosts.
	You know, when I first stepped forward and started talking about them, people were like, oh, it's the shadows of ghosts.
	I'm like, wait till you see one.
	And then they started seeing them.
	When I started really getting into how I came across the knowledge that I did in regard to shadow people, you know, people started like, okay, she's really, you know, off on one side.
	I don't know where she's coming from, talking about aliens in the same sense of these shadowy presences.
	But again, I came as a person who had seen these little beings in my apartment.
	I soon got another college roommate.
	You know, when you're college, you just bounce around with roommates.
	So I got another roommate who was extremely religious, Pentecostal.
	I warned her, look, I don't know.
	I saw these little alien guys one time.
	And now I see these shadowy things coming through my apartment.
	I don't know what's going on, but feel free to move in.
	I just wanted to give her a warning.
	She was so religious.
	You know, those are demons and they won't touch me because I'm Pentecostal and, you know, I have God on my side.
	I said, well, stuff like that's the work of the devil.
	Oh, of course.
	And they won't touch her.
	She moves on in anyways.
	She experiences the same things right alongside of me.
	Now, it gets really interesting because this is a person who would not talk about anything that was being seen.
	She was a great artist.
	I was a cartoonist.
	And, you know, there was one evening where there were a couple of people from that UFO group that came over and I saw these transparent looking beings poking their head through the wall.
	I'm like, am I seeing this?
	I started drawing it.
	I didn't want to think, you know, I didn't know what to think, but I was looking at.
	I look over and my roommate is sketching the same thing.
	I said, you see them too?
	She's like, oh my God, yes.
	So it was, that's when I knew, wow, this person's going to be seeing a lot more.
	And where would your, you know, if somebody wanted to study this and your experiences scientifically, where is your roommate now to corroborate that?
	You know, she has never been a person to talk publicly on it.
	And I don't know where she is now.
	She actually left all of it behind her because she wanted to go on to continue her artistry.
	She was really a known artist.
	So she's, she, this happened in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, by the way.
	So I honestly don't know where she's at right now, but I know that she's been doing a lot of artwork.
	So would you not be keen to find her and just chew over your experiences again?
	Oh, gosh, we dealt with it for years.
	I mean, I wrote books on it and she gave me, she said, you know, I feel like I've given you everything that I can and I'm done with it.
	But it gets really interesting because this is the reason why I think that she really stepped away from it.
	Because one day while I'm going, I'm at home, she drove Through downtown Milwaukee to go to her college, and she experienced something in broad daylight where she had a see-through alien being jump on the hood of her car.
	This is how she described it to me.
	Again, this is the person that didn't talk about these things.
	Jumped on the hood of her car, shoved its head through her windshield, and started speaking to her.
	She doesn't recall exactly how she made it to her school.
	I said, what are you telling me?
	You know, she said, you know, I don't know.
	When she got to school, she called me in a panic.
	Oh my God, Heidi, this is what happened.
	She said, this is incredible.
	I don't know what's going on.
	I'm like, I didn't understand what she was telling me.
	So to make a long story short, because I know we're short on time, but we met up later on that evening.
	I was asking her all the questions I could.
	I'm like, is she pulling my leg?
	Is she just trying to make fun of me for having, you know, these, this alien interest and whatnot.
	But she was bawling.
	She was bawling tears.
	And I'm like, gosh, is this really something she's experienced?
	You know, I'm like, well, you know, tell me more.
	And she's like, Heidi, I don't know.
	Now we're sitting in the car.
	We're along Lake Michigan.
	And she's, I don't know, but I feel like I need to meditate right now.
	I'm like, meditate?
	I'm like, I didn't even know what she meant.
	I didn't know she meditated.
	I'm like, well, should I leave her alone?
	Should I get out of the car?
	I had no idea.
	So I sat there.
	She closed her eyes.
	She had, she was Puerto Rican, very thick accent.
	And she got real quiet and she started speaking to me in a very reduced voice as far as her accent is concerned.
	And she said, hello.
	I've been waiting to speak to you for a very long time.
	And I'm just sitting there.
	I'm like, Samantha, what are you talking about?
	And this is not Samantha.
	I'm in what you would call an alien being and I need to talk to you.
	And I'm like, I'm just, you know, again, I'm a college student.
	I don't know what's going on here.
	I'm like, okay.
	I'm like, so you're an alien.
	Now, I had seen and heard of people who have channeled alien beings.
	I've heard of this phenomenon.
	I didn't know what was going on here still.
	But I just took a deep breath and I said, oh, really?
	So you're an alien.
	Okay.
	So where are you?
	You know, in a ship.
	I'm just carrying on this conversation.
	I'm like, in a ship, I'm like, well, can you show yourself?
	Well, your governments now know how to shoot us down, so we cannot.
	So to make a long story short, I asked him to project himself.
	And he did.
	In the car, this flesh-colored looking being came and appeared in the car.
	I'm like, okay, okay, I see something.
	I see something.
	So I knew from that point on, whatever was happening was a real phenomenon.
	Now, I did not know, neither of us knew, you know, what was going on as far as this is concerned.
	Now, this is based in my book, The Secret War, because I didn't know what to think as far as, it's called The Secret War, a true story about a real alien war and shadow people.
	This being had revealed himself to talk about the shadow people presence.
	It was a long time of pulling teeth with him saying, why are you here?
	Why are you talking?
	It's like we had to ask the right questions to get the right answers.
	And essentially told us that these beings that we were seeing were something that they were at odds with, that this is a war that's been going on.
	And I'm like, what kind of war are you speaking of?
	And essentially gravitated towards the war between good and evil.
	So are the shadow people the evil part of this?
	This is the head and shoulders figure with the red eyes?
	Exactly.
	And they could shapeshift.
	They could look like a shadow spider, a shadow cat.
	And I've experienced them all.
	So this alien being was trying, through your friend, was trying to tell you and the rest of us, probably indirectly, that there is a battle being fought, as many people have claimed over the years, over and around us.
	Indeed, indeed.
	And that these were the ones that connected all the negativity between all of the negative alien beings that are being reported as far as abductions are being concerned with reptilians, praying mantis, gray alien beings.
	I mean, I couldn't understand.
	I just got rid of these little itty-bitty aliens and whoam, I'm hit with these shadow beings.
	I didn't know what was going on.
	So hold on.
	You are then experiencing two sides of the phenomenon.
	You're experiencing the good and the bad side.
	You're seeing both sides of a conflict.
	Is that correct?
	Got to get this right.
	I did.
	As far as the gray beings were connected to the shadow beings.
	This being that started communicating through my friend was of the more positive side.
	He spoke of a God and he told how to get rid of these beings and how Jesus is who he says he is.
	Now, imagine this.
	I mean, it's not about worshiping aliens as, you know, angels or anything like that.
	A lot of people take it too far.
	I'm Christian.
	I'm not changing my stance on that.
	And as far as I understand it, I believe that some of these alien beings have been regarded as demons and some have been regarded as angels.
	You involving Jesus in this, Heidi.
	Sorry to interrupt.
	There are going to be people, especially in your country, who will see that as some arch blasphemy.
	Oh, no.
	But see, that's the thing.
	Jesus could stand on his own.
	I don't blend the two topics.
	I'm saying that in order, this is the power of his name.
	Let's put it that way.
	I learned through this being, and I believe I was one of the first to tell people this, when it comes to aliens coming to abduct a person, when it comes to shadow people coming your way, when it comes to the Hatman coming your way, they all recognize the name of Jesus.
	If you can say from your faith in Jesus' name, leave, and they leave, what does that tell you?
	Have you done that?
	Oh, gosh, yes.
	That's the only thing that keeps me in the safety that I am.
	So these shadow people, these malevolent presences, of which you've told us so far about the head and shoulders, but there are others.
	Do they still appear to you?
	Do they still have the capacity to appear to you?
	You know, I have not had the experiences with them as I once did because I do keep a cushion around me, I guess you could say, of God.
	I am Christian.
	I bless my home.
	I don't worship aliens.
	I don't do anything along those lines.
	I know it's been kind of a jumpy way of presenting the topic on your show tonight because we got so much into the ghostly stuff.
	But yeah, so it's Like I usually present it a little bit different, but you know, coming from a Christian standpoint and being someone who had experienced so many odd things, I have looked away from my faith because I'm like, I saw little aliens, I've seen UFOs, I've seen black helicopters, I've lived in a haunted house.
	I'm like, you know, I had my faith, but I looked more to that stuff as being a reality than my faith.
	And then to have an alien presence pop up through my seriously religious friend and tell me, literally, you told me this, you don't pray enough.
	I'm like, what is going on here?
	I had to turn back to my faith of what I was raised as a Christian to say, you know, wow, this is my only salvation.
	This is my only way to be able to protect myself from the powers that be when it comes to all these things.
	So it's rather akin to being on the road and somebody is overtaking in the other lane, the opposite lane to you, and they misjudge it and they're coming straight for you.
	And what do you do?
	The first thing you say, a lot of us is, oh, God, please help me.
	You know, a lot of people have said, you know, I screamed at this thing, God, leave me alone.
	God, help me.
	Jesus' name is what really is the powerhouse.
	That is the powerhouse.
	When an alien, so-called alien, recognizes that name, that's something to be said.
	That lets me know that these things, darkness is darkness.
	I don't care what you call it.
	You call it an alien, call it a shadow person.
	But they all recognize his name.
	These shadow people, so-called, do you think that they are tied into a phenomenon that the church certainly knows about, and that is demonic possession?
	Yes.
	Yes, they are one in the same.
	They are one in the same.
	They truly are.
	And let me tell you, there is a darker presence that is among the people.
	Okay, I'll tell you, when I first started coming out and putting out the, you know, I had a website talking about ghosts and had a website talking about UFOs, aliens.
	And I had people, you know, when there weren't a whole lot of websites out there, I had a lot of people writing me about their things and that were going on.
	And it changed from alien abductions with all these different beings to shadow people.
	Like 80% of my emails came shadow people when I came and started talking about this.
	To the Hatman phenomenon, which is now about 80% of my email.
	The shadow people phenomenon, it's kind of, it's there, but the Hatman phenomenon is taking over.
	And it's such a disturbing trend.
	I have a new book called The Hat Man, The True Story of Evil Encounters, that it's such a disturbing topic.
	I averted, diverted him from speaking on the topic or writing on the topic for so long because he would outright attack or haunt people every time I took a step towards it.
	People would see him behind me.
	I had never seen him head on.
	I still have not seen him head on.
	But he's been around me to a point where I've had people shriek, jump, and run, you know, and I'm like, wow, he hates my guts.
	I hate his guts.
	So I'm here to say, you know, beware of the shadow people, beware of the Hat Man, and get back to your faith.
	You know, I consider myself more of a Christian author, as odd as that may seem.
	I have a book called Jesus is No Joke, a true story of an unlikely witness who saw Jesus, which was myself.
	I had no idea where I was going with this stuff.
	I have experienced so many odd things.
	I had to go back to my faith and get good with my faith in order to stand in the face of some of this stuff.
	There's no way I could sit here as sane as I am, though people may question over there across the pond, which I could care less.
	But I know where my faith is.
	And I feel really secure in that.
	And I feel I'm more of a Christian author.
	And I have a book called Picture Prayers, also on how to get your faith right.
	And I have a new series, Diary Blog of the Fickle Finders, investigates the other F word, looking into faith for children to look into their faith because it's that important.
	I don't care what it is people are calling, you know, these things flying around in ships or what these shadowy presences are.
	It's all about your faith and getting right with God because the time is coming.
	The time is coming where it's so important.
	Which time is coming?
	I think that the time of change as far as, you know, a lot of people are like, gosh, I hope that the world ends.
	I hope the apocalypse comes.
	I'm like, no, we'll lose too many people.
	I think that there's a shift coming as far as this war is increasing between the good and the negative because the secret war that is going on has been going on all the while in the privacy of people's homes.
	But because there's naysayers and people cackling and laughing, they're not getting this message fully that it's happening already.
	But, you know, if you could see your enemy coming, you could defend yourself.
	But behind the humor and the laughter, people are not getting the message as they should.
	Well, there are, though.
	I think modern media is part of that.
	And I do go on about this way too much here.
	But, you know, you turn on the TV here.
	I've had a friend, I said a friend, guy that I work with.
	And he said to me, Howard, I don't have a television.
	I said, how can you exist without a television?
	Everybody's got one.
	He said, well, every time I turn it on, I see people dancing or people baking.
	And that's all I see.
	There are dancing shows, there are talent contests, there are baking shows, and a little bit of news in between.
	And that's all it is.
	I don't have a TV.
	I think people's eyes are being taken off the ball by distractions.
	Now, whether what you're saying is correct or not, not for me to say.
	But I think people need to be asking serious questions about the way this world works, who's got the power and all the rest of it.
	And the modern media is aiding and assisting you to not think about that stuff.
	Maybe until it's too late.
	I don't know.
	I'm not qualified to say so.
	And I wouldn't be around.
	We're becoming a numb society and we're not listening to each other.
	And it's just to have reality.
	True.
	No arguments from me on that.
	Who's the Hatman and why is the Hatman interested in you?
	Well, just to say, too, real quick, that I get thousands of emails a year of people that are suffering in silence because of the naysayers.
	And I have a website called Paranormal Pledge where we get out and we start speaking about our personal encounters and our personal experiences and our convictions because just to let people know that this is not something that is an isolated incident when it comes to these things.
	It kind of sounds like Alcoholics Anonymous for experiences.
	It's a normal phenomenon.
	It really is.
	These Things are happening.
	I hear stories that could change the world, but because they've been laughed at, you will never hear of that.
	And that's a darn shame.
	That's really a shame.
	That's a crime.
	As they say, there's nothing else I can say except I hear what you say.
	But let's answer the question: who is the Hatman and why is the Hatman interested in Heidi?
	You know what?
	The Hatman phenomenon is something that I truly, I misstepped when I first came across it.
	My roommate, the one that had this connection with this alien being, was screaming at the top of her lungs one evening.
	I'm thinking, my God, somebody's killing her.
	I race from my room to her room.
	I go in there.
	She is crouched in a corner, shivering, barely able to speak.
	I'm like, what is, you know, what's going on?
	I'm like, the man, the man.
	I'm like, oh my God, somebody's in the apartment.
	You know, I'm like, looking, checking the doors and the windows.
	And she couldn't get her words out.
	She's like, no, no.
	He disappeared as soon as you opened the door.
	I'm like, what?
	What did this guy look like?
	And of course, her being the artist that she is, she did this graphic that's on my website, HeidiHollis.com.
	And it's this man in a black suit.
	He wears a three-piece suit.
	He wears a trench coat, sometimes a cape, sometimes a gaucho type hat or a top hat that people have described to me over the years.
	And sometimes he's clean-shaven.
	Other times he has a goatee.
	If you see his eyes, it could be solid black or a glowing red.
	And I'm thinking, wow, that is something else of a shadow person.
	I didn't experience him, you know, just for him to be wearing clothes.
	This is different, you know, because the shadow people would change into a shadow spider, a shadow cat, shadow clouds, and the head and shoulder shadow guy.
	And I just didn't get it.
	So I kind of categorized him on my website, put him on my site as being a shadow man.
	And a hat man shadow is what I call them.
	And when I put that up there, the trend of my emails changed.
	I started seeing a pattern of people saying, oh my God, that man, he's taunted me for years.
	I'm like, what?
	His pattern is to show up at the foot of someone's bed to a point of such horror that people are in fear for their souls, not just terrorized, but for their very souls.
	And I'm like, well, how can something like that do that with such a glance?
	I've seen shadow people.
	I don't feel like they're going to grab my soul.
	I felt they wanted to kill me, but not to take my soul.
	And then I started hearing just the strangest things, people saying, he talks to me.
	I'm like, he talks to you?
	Hold on.
	These shadow people, they might growl.
	I've heard of whispers, but I haven't heard of this phenomenon going on.
	And that's when it started to sink into my head that this guy is real.
	He's not a shadow.
	He sits on your bed.
	He likes to sit there and taunt you.
	He likes to encourage you to kill yourself.
	I've had a gentleman early on that wrote me who said he attempted suicide and he woke up strapped down to his bed.
	And he looks over to the side of his bed and here's the Hatman who leans within an inch of his face and puts up his fingers and goes, I was this close to having you.
	Boom, he was gone.
	So this kind of ties into some of the stuff that some of my guests have talked about over the years.
	That there is almost like a subterranean level of presences and beings and stuff that is there, but we can't see it.
	But it's just kind of waiting, waiting to claim people who are maybe vulnerable, maybe depressed, whatever, waiting for the door to open.
	Is that so?
	You know, I could slap a title on what the Hatman is and who people are claiming him to be.
	And I think he's wanting this certain title.
	When it comes to subterranean people, I would say those were more alien beings.
	As far as these demonic shadow people, yes, they're known to have people down below the surface as well.
	But to say this Hatman is more of an evil presence, the leader of the group, I guess you could say, I've had people write, there's a hundred shadow people around them, but one Hatman.
	There's one leader when it comes to him.
	Now, there's a saying that, you know, there's Jesus or God can be everywhere.
	The Hatman seems to be one single entity that is making his presence known, that he's there for you and that you're on his side of the fence if you don't fly straight.
	Who drifts into your home to the end of your bed and kind of comes in stealthily like Clint Eastwood in a spaghetti western?
	You know, that's one presence that form that he comes in is at the foot of your bed, but he's been seen everywhere.
	He's at the scene of accidents.
	He's at the scene of crimes, murders, deaths, illness.
	Almost like the Grim Reaper.
	Almost like, but there's a Grim Reaper type out there too.
	But this guy, he lets you know that he's there to collect you.
	And if you know God, if you know the name Jesus, use it.
	And bless your home when it comes to something like that.
	If he's a common presence, if he's too close to you or if he can't get into your home, he'll show up in your dreams until you let him in.
	And then he's in there.
	An Indian guy I once knew recommended to protect my home that I put over, and I did do this for a while, for a long while, that I put across my front door limes, slices of lime and chilies, all hung, if you can imagine them, hung like Christmas decorations over my front door.
	And I tried it.
	And, you know, somewhere in my head, I thought it kind of helped.
	I'm not quite sure why, but maybe I just kind of made myself feel that way.
	I don't know why I'm telling you that story, but I'm all about crosses and Jesus.
	That's all I do.
	Well, I never thought this conversation would go in that direction.
	I really didn't.
	A lot of people don't, yeah.
	This show is going to go out around Halloween, which is much the same, both sides of the Atlantic.
	We've imported your tradition of trick or treat, and in some ways I wish we kind of hadn't, but we have.
	We have it here now.
	We didn't have it when I was a little boy.
	It started coming in when I was kind of teenage.
	And, you know, we've got it now.
	You've had it all of your life.
	It's been here for part of my life.
	Do you think that Halloween just quickly is a focus for stuff like we've been talking about today?
	Or is it just within our minds?
	Is it just like Father's Day or Mother's Day?
	It's just a date in the calendar.
	You know, I think it's the presence of mind and how serious you take it or not.
	I personally don't like to entertain the negative stuff, but I had a heck of a time with Halloween.
	I had a blast.
	You know, I mean, hey, it depends on how you're taking it.
	I mean, even my church celebrated Halloween.
	We trick-or-treated in the church.
	So it's like, you know, it's a matter of, you know, how you're taking it.
	If you're going to go and, you know, kill a cat because of, you know, Halloween, that's a little bit on the negative side.
	If you're just going for fun and you don't explain that you're trying to, you know, go towards the negative with your kids going trick-or-treating, I think you're okay.
	Well, let me just say something here that, you know, there are people who do strange things like you just said, and they need to face, just so we've said this, the full force of the law, if that's the kind of stuff that they do.
	That's horrible.
	It's horrible.
	But again, it's like, you know, again, I think that people, if there's one message like I get across to people, it's like, no matter what it is that others are talking about when it comes to the paranormal, ghosts, aliens, get your faith right, people, really.
	I mean, the time is ripe.
	It needs to be done.
	Please go to my website, HeidiHollis.com.
	I've got information there.
	I do a radio show regularly as well.
	And I take emails from around the world of people who have experienced any of these things, even holy encounters, as I've had, you know, to try to address it and get the stories out there because we have to bond together.
	We have to stop judging each other.
	Do you not feel doing what I'm doing here?
	I mean, I am not...
	And I don't understand how that works.
	I mean, half the time, I think it's a joke when I say, I see this, and I laugh because I just think that's ridiculous.
	And then they come back and they say, that happened.
	Those are the things that I've had.
	But what I'm saying to you is you've experienced so much in your life.
	Does it compromise what you do when you try and do talk shows when you're an experiencer?
	Because it's almost like doing a political show when you're a Democrat or a Republican and staunchly so.
	Well, no, because when I get the guests on, I know the struggle.
	I keep my nine-to-five job.
	I know the passion that's behind the people that are coming on my show and having, you know, the gall to speak about these things.
	So I love having the experience that I do and being able to relate to what they're talking about.
	Because, I mean, they know that when they come on my show, who am I going to judge?
	You know, I'm not going to sit there and try to entertain, you know, the naysayers.
	I mean, the paranormal shows of today might as well be called the debunking shows of today.
	They don't highlight the heart of the people who are taking the step forward and maybe made fun of, maybe shunned at work.
	Who knows?
	Me, I could care less because I like to laugh at most things in life.
	And from my point of view over here, what I try to do is to just follow the great training that I had as a broadcast journalist and all the hard stories that I've done and had to do over the years.
	You know, I try and keep a level head about this stuff.
	And some people say to me, don't you think that a lot of this stuff that you talk about on there is just trash?
	And I said, I try to keep a clear head and an open mind about stuff.
	Some of it I find very hard to believe, and some of it I think has a kernel of truth to it.
	But the job of deciding which of those things a topic or a person is, I try and banish those thoughts from my mind, and I try and take myself away from it.
	And if somebody I think is really wacko, then I'm going to tell them so and ask them to defend themselves.
	I don't think you're wacko.
	I think you're very interesting.
	And I'd like to talk to you again.
	I'd love it.
	That would be great.
	Thank you so much for having me on the show.
	This is a blast.
	And thanks to Roger in California.
	You said we'd be good together and we are.
	Good conversation, I think we've had.
	Heidi, I hope you've enjoyed it.
	I think so, too.
	I'm sorry I jumped around a little bit with the subject, but it's just so much to get in one hour.
	I'm like, how can I get this across?
	It's just a taster.
	It's a taster, you see, for things to come.
	Heidi Hollis, thank you very much for coming on The Unexplained.
	Thank you so much, HH.
	Thank you, HH.
	Heidi Hollis on Shadow People and many, many other things.
	Good to have her on.
	Your thoughts, as always, welcome on this show.
	Please email via the website, www.theunexplained.tv is where you can get hold of me.
	The website designed and created by Adam Cornwell at Creative Hotspot in Liverpool.
	Please take part in our poll.
	Very, very important if you can do that.
	Just take a couple of minutes and do that.
	I would be massively grateful.
	And sometime in the future, we'll be number crunching all the data, but the data is still coming in and will be coming in for quite a while.
	Please be part of this for our sake to help us develop this show.
	More great shows in the pipeline coming soon, including a highly controversial guest who may be the next show or the next show after that.
	I'm still trying to tie down the full details, but thank you very much for keeping the faith with the unexplained and for letting me know that you're out there and for keeping me on the straight and narrow with the show.
	You know, sometimes, like everybody, you think, am I doing the right thing here?
	I don't know.
	There's only me and I have to make the decisions about it.
	But, you know, you keep me on track.
	So thank you very much.
	Sincerely, I mean that.
	And I hate it when people say sincerely, because often when they do, they don't mean it, but I do.
	Thank you again, and I'll see you on the next edition of The Unexplained.
	Until next time, stay safe, stay calm, and stay in touch.
	My name is Howard Hughes.
	I'm in London.
	This has been The Unexplained.
	Take care.

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