All Episodes
Previous Next
Aug. 21, 2014 - The Unexplained - Howard Hughes
01:01:43
Edition 171 - Victor Zammit

On this show... Retired Sydney lawyer Victor and his partner Wendy - with their "case forthe Afterlife"...

| Copy link to current segment

Time Text
Across the UK, across continental North America and around the world.
On the internet, by webcast and by podcast, my name is Howard Hughes and this is The Unexplained.
Well, here I go again, Mr. Weatherbore, but the weather's played another trick on us.
Some of the tabloid papers were saying that as August comes to an end, we're going to have a heat wave maybe 40 degrees, what, 100 Fahrenheit?
Not so.
What's happened is about four or five weeks early, we seem to be spiraling into autumn, and there'd be many signs of that.
There's a chill in the air early in the morning.
The light levels feel exactly like they do in mid-September, a month early.
And one sign from my own life in my apartment, normally every year I get two or three wasps, hornets, in the apartment.
Usually towards the end of the year because they're slowing down, it's cold and they come presumably to find some warmth.
In the space of 24 hours, never happened before, I had five in my apartment.
And they all have to be shown the door to do whatever they will do.
But very, very odd.
And perhaps, although I'm not a climate scientist, another sign that it feels different.
And I think as human beings, we sense these things, don't we?
So I think somehow, having started with a tropical stormy winter at the beginning of this year with floods, and then gone on to heat waves in the middle of the year, now suddenly early, we're heading for autumn.
Just don't understand it, but that's the fact.
Thank you very much to Adam Cornwell at Creative Hotspot in Liverpool for his hard work on the website.
Thanks, Adam.
If you want to get in touch with me, you can by emailing the show through the website www.theunexplained.tv.
Now, loads of shout-outs to do, so need to get onto those.
Dave Wilson in the UK, good to hear from you.
Joy Banks, thank you for your email.
Al, who drives a taxi in Hull, asks me what happened to the prophet Yahweh.
Al, thereby hangs a tale.
This was the guy who said that he would eventually stand on a mountaintop and he knew how to bid down UFOs because he was in contact with aliens.
To the best of my knowledge, Al, it never happened unless you know different.
Four good suggestions from Kirsten.
Nice to hear from you.
Kyle in Washington, he's no fan of Jesse Ventura, a man who sparks many different emotions.
Bentley in the US sent me a sound file.
Nice to hear from you again, Bentley.
Mark Malkipor, not impressed with my archive edition with Helen Littrell and Jean Billidou.
This was the story of the hybrid, Rachel's Eyes.
Says the whole story just made me angry and frustrated.
D enjoys the show.
Thank you, D. Beth in South Carolina, enjoyed Deborah Moffat.
Gareth Richards, some nice comments.
Thanks, Gareth.
James Fort in Okinawa.
First-time emailer from Okinawa.
Thank you, James.
Carol has a suggestion for my Tinnitus.
Thank you, Carol.
Glenn in Iowa wants a psychic archaeologist.
I knew I get that wrong.
A psychic archaeologist on the show.
Been a long day.
Steve in Little Francham, Norfolk.
Thank you.
John Dryden, who says he's not related to the poet.
Nice to hear from you, John.
Dustin, who's in the U.S. Air Force in Guam.
So we've had Okinawa and Guam, found the show recently.
Tom in Madison, Minnesota.
Hi.
Hank in New York City, suggesting I check out the National UFO Reporting Center Phone Call Archive.
Hanky, thank you for the tip.
I have.
It's great.
Matt Chamberlain in Nashville.
Thanks for the email.
Grant in what he calls the colonies was disappointed by Grant Cameron.
Brian in Indiana loved the Grant Cameron show.
Okay.
Oscar in Richmond, California, thank you for your email.
Frank wonders if we can do transcripts of these shows.
Frank, I wish I could have been asked before, but I just couldn't possibly stretch to the budget to do it, but maybe in the future.
Pete is suggesting Douglas Dietrich.
Thank you.
Dion in Somerset, thanks for the email.
Mike Dorley in Mansfield, Texas.
Thank you for getting in touch.
Peter Ferber, same to you.
Mary Jo in Columbus, Ohio.
Loved the Grant Cameron show.
Says it blew her away.
Laura in Astoria, Oregon, thought Grant Cameron contradicted himself.
Okay, see, different people, different views.
Brenda Harry, thank you for your email.
James Harbridge, he's heard my entire back catalogue.
Nice one, James.
And Lindsay, a solicitor in Glasgow, nice to hear from a person of the law, Lindsay.
You will be interested in this show, I think.
Thank you very much for all of those emails.
If you want to get in touch, go to the website, theunexplained.tv and follow the link.
You can either leave me a donation for the show, very vitally received, or you can send me an email and let me know what you think of the show or make a guest suggestion, whatever.
Lindsay, the person I've got on this show is called Victor Zamitt, a retired lawyer who's written a book that he says makes the case legally for the afterlife.
He is a fascinating character, lives now in Sydney, Australia with his partner, Wendy, and we'll connect with him very soon.
Thank you very much for all of your support to the unexplained.
Life is very busy and very trying right now, but I will keep these shows going and I do want to develop them.
So thank you very much for the good things you said and for always keeping the faith with me and for giving me feedback and suggestions and telling me where I've got it wrong and telling me where I've got it right.
I'm very grateful.
All right, let's get to Sydney now, a nine-hour time difference, I think, and talk to Victor Zamet, the lawyer who says he's made the case for the afterlife.
Victor, thank you for coming on.
Lovely to be here, Harren.
Well, I know there's a big time difference.
I was saying to my listeners here that there is not only a nine-hour time difference between us and Sydney, us here in London and you down there, but also I thought there was going to be a bit of a weather and climate difference, but I know Wendy, your partner's with you there, Wendy.
The weather here in London has gone from heat wave to, frankly, very cool, very autumnal.
And apparently with a lot of rain, you've got the same thing there, haven't you?
We have indeed.
Yes, we have indeed.
So what does that mean?
Does that mean you're not sliding into spring and out of winter as quickly as you should be?
No, not really.
I mean, in two, three weeks' time, it'll be springtime and we'll have the sun back, the warm sun.
Mid-20s.
We can expect by next week we'll be sort of like 22, 23 degrees centigrade.
Yeah, I know.
And you'll steal the sunshine from us.
Thank you very much.
Okay.
Now, I was a little confused, Victor, because I know Malta very well, got a lot of friends there.
And your name, Zamit, is a very, very popular Name in Malta.
And I thought that you were based in Malta.
What's that story?
Well, the story is that when the Germans bombers bombed our place in Malta, our city, they flattened it.
My mother said we didn't have a home anymore.
So after the war, they wanted to leave Malta and go to either Australia or the US.
And they chose to come here to Australia.
I mean, we forget about this.
And you don't often see the movie on TV, but Malta, because of where it was, just off the southern boot of Italy.
And of course, that for a good long while was supporting Hitler.
You people took a real pounding, didn't you, in Malta from constant air raids?
And it looked like Malta was going to fall to the Germans and the Italians, the Axis at one point, didn't they?
Oh, absolutely.
And we're so grateful to the UK and the British and the Air Force there and the naval services.
They did wonderful, wonderful work.
It stopped the Germans and the Italians from invading Malta.
But at the same time, the British used Malta to attack Rommel, all the supplies going to Rommel there in North Africa.
And Churchill, of course, thought it was really, really great that we did a great deal towards the war effort.
Tremendous bravery.
And of course, ultimately, Malta was awarded the George Cross, a very, very high gallantry medal, normally only given to people.
But the entire, that's why Malta is Malta GC, isn't it?
Of course, yes, absolutely right.
Yes, yes.
Okay, well, you're in Sydney, and I'm sure the Australian life is as wonderful today as I remember it in my last visit there, which was about 10 years ago, I have to say.
But wonderful place to live.
Okay, so you're a lawyer.
You practiced law in Australia for a number of years.
Am I right about that?
Absolutely, yes, yes.
And what sort of law were you involved in, Victor?
Well, I was a GP, so I did, what is it, court work up to Supreme Court level.
For example, we did the workers' compensation to the district court level and some other cases went up to the Supreme Court.
So my experience was to prepare these cases so that our clients will tell us that we did a fine job.
Now, lawyers, and I've had many friends over the years, still have many friends who are in the legal profession.
Most of them are fun-loving people, of course, but they are people who are very firmly based in fact.
You know, if you can't prove it, if you can't write it down, if it cannot be verified and cross-referenced, then forget it because it doesn't get into the case.
It's pointless.
Which makes me very, very interested about why you are interested and why you are concerned with an area that is so very gray.
Well, it's great to some people.
For me now, after 25 years of investigating the afterlife, it's not a gray area to me anymore.
This is because Wendy and I found the greatest, what I would describe as the greatest medium we have today on Earth.
It's something that nobody, no one, anywhere, anytime, will be able to disprove that the afterlife exists when we have someone like David Thompson, our medium, who is doing brilliant, absolutely brilliant work.
It took us some 15 years to try to find the best medium in the world.
And thank goodness we did find him because I do believe what this guy can do, what this medium can do, I don't think there's anybody else in the world can do.
And it is absolute proof.
It's the most sensational evidence for the afterlife.
Nobody has been able to disprove.
No genius scientist, no genius skeptic, no genius materialist has been able to disprove the evidence we do here.
All right, so you have somebody, well, he's local to you, David Thompson.
He's a medium.
Why were you looking for a medium?
Well, I wanted proof that the evidence can be repeatable and objective, because I know as a lawyer that anybody who can produce repeatable and objective evidence, nobody can beat.
Nobody.
Howard, this is a particular kind of medium.
This is not just a mental medium.
Most mediums today are mental mediums.
That is, they get the message like John Edward and many of the other mental mediums, and then they just repeat the message.
But this is a materialization medium.
Here's somebody in his presence.
The spirit people actually materialize and walk around the room and talk to people.
Now, this is the kind of stuff that was done, and I know people who did this.
I'm from Liverpool originally.
There was a golden age there in the 1930s, 1940s.
And I was lucky enough to meet somebody who was involved in all of this at the time and investigated and met many of these people who claimed to produce ectoplasm and a little boy in one case who walked around a circle.
But they had to admit, this woman had to admit, and the people that she'd worked with had to admit, that for every one person that they came away thinking, well, I think that was probably the real deal, there were probably nine or ten who were total, complete fakes.
Look, there are fake people, fake mediums.
Yes, yes, yes.
But we're not talking about fake mediums.
There are Fake, not only mediums, fake doctors, and fake scientists.
But when we say and we put it in writing in the form of a book, that this to me is the greatest physical medium that we have on planet Earth today, and I challenge the closed-minded skeptics to put up or shut up about this for the last, what, eight years.
David Thompson was born in England, is 49 years old now, and he emigrated to Australia some nine years ago.
Now, he is able to get what we call reunions.
Now, my sister came through, and she came through, she used the same voice she had before she crossed over.
So, hold on.
You're saying that your departed sister came through this person, and he was able to vocalize as her.
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
Materializations is where the medium, David Thompson, goes into a trance.
He exudes a great deal of ectoplasm.
Now, we've seen this ectoplasm.
There's no doubt about it.
Those other less informed psych cheese closets as absolute rubbish.
We've seen this for the last eight years, nine years, this ectoplasm in red light, even.
And it's real, it's happening, it's true.
And can David Thompson make that happen in a place other than his own home base?
Absolutely.
He did that when he was in England last year.
Really?
Howard, he travels the world.
He's going to the Banyan Treat Center in a couple of months' time in Kent.
Next year, he's in America.
He goes to Holland.
He goes to Switzerland.
Well, listen, when he's next in Europe, Wendy, when he's next in Europe, I will travel to see him.
If he's willing to be interviewed by me, then I will certainly do it.
He'd be very happy to be interviewed by you.
He's had scientists sitting with him.
You can go to Kent next April.
We're going to Kent.
We're going to Kent in April in Easter next year.
Well, I'll see you there.
There are two of the greatest physical mediums we have in the world today.
There's David Thompson.
And Scott Milligan.
These are the two top guys in the world today.
No doubt about it.
And look, when I say my sister came through and she used the same voice, and she was the same person who was with us before she crossed over.
It's as if she had not crossed over and she's still with us.
Now, Wendy's father came through and he crossed over 50 years ago.
Let me tell him the story.
Howard, David is on one side of the room.
He's tied into a chair and he can't move and he's gagged so he can't speak.
The physical person materializes and walks to the other side of the room, comes and touches the person who they've come to see.
Now, my father died 50 years ago.
He walked across the room.
He came across and he talked to me.
We recorded his voice.
So I've got his voice on tape.
He talked to me.
He told me things that nobody in that room knew, even that Victor didn't know.
He then he kissed me and he wrote his name on a piece of paper.
Good lord.
Now, nobody would know what my surname was, what my maiden name was.
He couldn't look that up on the internet.
Nobody would have known my father's name.
And this is just one of a hundred reunions that we have been present at.
Wendy, I mean, that's an amazing story.
Presumably, you have examples of your dad's handwriting when he was in life.
The writing that he used and the writing that he signed a piece of paper when you were there with him, with the medium, were they the same?
Yes, they were.
They were.
And how about the voice?
Where did the voice appear to be coming from?
Immediately, about 12 inches away in front of me.
Because, you see, when they come through, when they materialize, it's as if, look, I'm talking to you, right?
They walk around and the voice come from their mouth.
The same voice they used to have when they were on earth.
This is amazing.
Well, if he is this good, and these are truly amazing stories, and I have to meet David Thompson definitely, for personal reasons as well as this show, because I've lost both my parents, and you know what kind of a void that leaves.
And there's still a lot unsaid.
So I'd like to meet him for a personal reason.
But if he's doing this with you, why doesn't he go to the United Nations and materialize Martin Luther King?
Well, look, hang on.
It's not as simple as that.
It's not.
We know him.
His guide, who is in charge of everything, his guide is William.
He died in England in 1897.
He's taking things easy because David was a member medium.
And now for the last 20 years, his guide told him to do this kind of work.
And have you researched the guide?
Did the guide really exist?
Yes, I mean, but that to me, one has to be very careful because just because you find a name in a registry somewhere, it doesn't mean that that's true.
I mean, he could have borrowed that name.
That's not the magician.
We want results.
For us, the reunions, when you're dealing with physical mediumship or direct voice mediumship, people can claim that they're whoever they are.
They can claim they're Cleopatra.
But unless they can prove it, and the best way of proving it is when they're talking to someone who knew them when they were alive.
Sorry, I'll come in at this time.
I said to William, I said, can you get someone that all the world, all most of the world knew about someone who could see the energy is sharp and short.
So when they come in, they say, maybe they stay for a few minutes, and that's all.
And I tell you who came through, and that's Harry Houdini.
Harry Houdini, of course, who was interested in psychic phenomena right up to his death.
Yeah.
Now, we have him on tape.
This is he materialized, and I talked to him, and I said, you know, I said, you are a real so-and-so when you were on Earth.
You stirred up the gifted mediums who wanted to reunite those from the other side with us here.
And you really made it difficult for them.
But anyway, I said, why don't you do something?
You owe the world a duty to show that you are who you claim to be.
But in the short time, he was able to say a few words.
Look, can I just put this tape on for you to hear for yourself the voice of Houdini?
I was going to ask you, absolutely.
Oh, go on, Wendy.
What was that?
Who do you think?
That's right.
How are you, Sammy?
I'm okay.
I see Sam.
Hey, Zambia, I got something to say to you.
Yeah, of course.
You know, it's caused quite a story coming through, hasn't it?
Tremendous publicity.
Well, I'll tell you something, Zamb, what I'm going to do.
I'm going to bring through some information for you.
I'm going to do it when I'm good and money.
Well, that's okay.
Maybe I do better than that.
Maybe I'll just bring through something.
An apart.
Oh, specific.
And that will prove to all in somebody, won't it?
Yeah, help a great deal, yeah.
Help a great deal, I think, that it would crack the nuts of anyone.
You know me, by now for the interview, you've been reading my website.
You know, I don't trust anyone anywhere, anytime, anyplace, until I'm given absolute proof.
You know something, Zimmet?
Yeah.
I would have given you something to run for your money, I can tell you.
You would have had your work cut out with me, not like that randy Swellwig of fellows.
I'm it, you watch out for what's happening because I'm going to knock your socks off.
I can tell you that.
Can you hear that?
I heard it loud and clear.
The only thing I can say about that accent was that it's some of my listeners are going to email me and immediately say that's straight out of central casting.
Central casting, as in Marita, as in the movies.
One of the problems with accents is, and again, the accents are always affected slightly by the ectoplasm of the medium.
You have to remember that the person no longer has a voice box.
And the ectoplasm, what they do with the ectoplasm is they make a model of the medium's voice box.
So there is an element of the medium there because of the size and shape of his voice box.
Well, to a lot of people, that's going to sound very convenient, though, Wendy, that it sounds a little bit like the medium, but mostly like the character.
Yes, but the problem, and that's one of the reasons why what we go by is content analysis.
And when you have a loved one coming through and telling you things about your, or I'll tell you who was very, very clear and very, the voice is excellent, was that Gordon Higginson.
Now, Gordon Higginson was a medium in England, and because he was a medium, he seemed to be able to control it very well.
And he had a long conversation in New Zealand with somebody that he knew personally.
And we've got that on tape.
And his voice is very, very similar.
Another one that was very similar was Montagu King.
You might have heard of him.
He was one of the SPR investigators on the Skull Report.
Now, he came through and talked to his wife, Veronica, five times through David Thompson.
Before the funeral.
Even before his funeral, he came through and he dictated a speech to be read at his memorial service.
Now, when someone like Veronica says, yes, that was my husband, he talked about things I only knew.
Now, that's one of the reasons that we don't normally go for the famous people, because unless we have a relative there who can converse with them about personal things, as you say, it could be central casting from the other side.
But one of the interesting things is that Houdini is now working with Professor Gary Schwartz.
And recently we were in America.
Houdini actually said he was going to do something to knock your socks off.
And he's helping Gary Schwartz to develop a cell phone.
And what was really interesting was that a couple of the mediums who were there, when Victor was, Victor did a recent presentation in Arizona and he played this tape.
And Gary Schwartz's wife is a medium who can actually see spirits.
And she claimed that she could see Houdini on the stage next to Victor.
Sorry, can I come in here?
The other thing, of course, is Howard, is that I asked William, that's David's guide, I said, William, can you assure us that those who come through are who they claim to be?
He said, Victor, look, we have a lot of resources on our side.
And if they say, you know, accept they are who they claim to be.
You mean, in other words, if they claim they are what they say they are, then you've got to believe it.
Well, put it this way.
It said they do their own searches there in the afterlife.
Somebody comes up and says he's Houdini.
And that time Houdini was with Sir Arthur Conan Doyle.
Wendy, I wanted to, I know you were coming in then anyway, but I wanted to ask you about this Houdini plan for a soul foam.
Why aren't we hearing about that in the mainstream media?
It's only just started, actually.
Well, Professor Schwartz has published papers in psychic journals.
There's a paper.
He presented a paper at this Arizona conference, which was only a month ago, and I think he's actually got journals.
It's not developed yet.
But I mean just think I'm sure it will take many generations to develop it sounds like a very complicated thing, but just imagine I've just this year entered the smartphone generation for years.
I resisted it.
Now I've gone 4G and I've got an Android smartphone and it's got lots of apps that I'm still trying to learn.
But just imagine if you had an app on your smartphone that allowed you to talk to the people who'd gone before you.
How fab would that be?
Well, Sonia Rinaldi in Brazil is doing something very similar at the moment.
She's getting pictures and audio of children who have died and replying to questions from their parents.
Right.
That's a very dangerous field, isn't it?
Because you're then dealing, if you're the medium, with people who are very, very vulnerable.
You know, you do have to handle that very, very carefully.
And I'm sure the scope for charlatanism in that kind of thing is enormous.
Well, Sonia is working with the University of Sao Paulo, and she has absolute integrity.
She's got a track record going back 25 years.
I've known Sonia now for, we've known her for the last 25 years since we started.
No, she's honest.
We weren't specifically talking about her, but I mean the scope for other people exploiting the vulnerable is always there.
Look, how you get quacks everywhere, you know, but when we say we lawyers or we scientists can prove this, then they're dealing with the real thing.
And if an investigator has to investigate, he should be investigating scientists, not quacks.
Now, you've had a lot of contact with those who've been materialized, including people very close to you, your sister, Victor, and your father, Wendy, so you can't get any closer.
And if they appear to be what they say they are, then you have the information within you because it's part of your life.
But I just wonder why this isn't being taken to another level.
If this is so manifestable and so powerful, think of the influence it could have on this world of ours, why it's being done almost as a party trick.
This is not just a party thing.
This is so sensational, but we have to do it slowly.
And William promised us he's going to help us in the near future.
Now, I asked William, I said, is it possible to allow video to video you when you materialize?
He said, look, one of the problems is that a lot of the cameras you have there has infrared, not infrared, it emits radiation.
And that radiation will affect the ectoplasm.
And if the ectoplasm shoots back to the medium, it could hurt the medium.
That, of course, that story of the ectoplasm flashing back in that way, Lola McNaught in Liverpool in the 80s, and she was already in her 70s then, and she'd been to the great mediums of the 30s and 40s.
She said that was always seen to be a great danger.
And that's why, well, that actually hindered a lot of investigation because the medium said, oh, no, you can't touch this and you can't do that because the ectoplasm will flash back and that will hurt the medium.
That sounds very convenient, though, doesn't it?
But hold it there, but he allowed one expert video guy to actually video one of the sessions.
And he was able to videoviolet camera.
He actually videoed William.
It didn't come very clearly, but you could clearly see William, you know, his shoulders and the head.
But he said in the future, we'll improve on this for sure, Victor.
See, it takes a long time to develop a physical medium.
A really good physical medium, sometimes they take 25, 30 years to reach their peak.
And we have to go by what the spirit team wants.
We do have another medium that we're investigating at the moment who is getting, he seems to be able to do it in light.
Again, he's from England.
England is a place, you know, for this reason.
We're very connected, we are.
But this guy, let me tell you about this guy because we saw about, how long ago, about two months ago?
Two months ago.
Two months ago, he was here in Sydney, and I attended one of his sessions, and I actually saw a materialized figure in lights.
In light, yeah.
In lights, so the thing was actually radiating light itself.
Sorry, those who were sitting near me, five to my right and five to my left, saw the face of this guy.
So I see what you're saying.
So the lights in the house were illuminating the face of what had materialized.
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
It has to be in darkness, but this guy was able to get close to us and he pulled us out.
He held that under his chin.
Which lit up his face completely.
And they were able to put ping-pong balls with luminous paint on them in the middle of the room so that we could see the figure moving around the room.
Yeah, but the thing is, when he first came near me and he sort of talked to me, I said, look, do me a favor, will you?
I'd like to see your face.
He said, hold it there.
I'll be back shortly.
20 minutes later, he came back and he had this luminous plug and he put it under his chin and we could see his face very clearly.
You know, he looked nothing like the medium because the medium was tied in his chair.
And you're absolutely sure that, you know, unlike the great days of mediumship, the 30s, 40s, when there were a lot of frauds about, you're sure that these people were not associates or cohorts?
No, no, no, no.
Look how.
When I first started to report this in our weekly newsletter some 14 years ago, sorry, this was when I started to report David's sessions about nine years ago.
A few of the skeptics say, oh, We don't believe it.
I said, Look, I'm offering you $500,000 if it can prove there is fraud.
But if you fail, you will give the medium $100,000.
Put up or shut up.
And no one took me on.
But isn't it a safe bet either way?
Because it's hard to prove that there is fraud and it's hard to prove that there isn't.
It's just there.
Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, hold on, hold on, no.
Now, if somebody says fraud is taking place, the claimant has to prove what aspect of the demonstration is fraudulent.
So much so, some 10 months ago, Sally Morgan in England won quarter of a million dollars, including the legal costs, against the mainstream newspaper, the Daily Mail.
No, was it the Daily Mail?
I'm not sure.
Anyway, one of the mainstream newspapers there.
And then it was settled that someone who objects, someone who claims it's fraud, the onus on the journalist was to show what aspect, specifically, what aspect of the demonstration is fraudulent.
And if he cannot do that, he will lose the case.
Was that in the public domain?
I don't remember reading about that.
Look, it's a Sally Morgan case.
All right, well, I'll check that out because I know of Sally Morgan.
In fact, Sally Morgan, I've been meaning to do an interview with her.
We've been in contact.
So that's very interesting if that is so.
If you Google it, it's there, Howard.
I'll check it out.
And if you're hearing it on this show, then I have checked it out.
Yeah, and I can tell you this.
I can tell you this, that not any uninformed skeptic can say, oh, what David is doing is fraud.
I can't cope with these kinds of stupid, bloody comments.
They're low-level type of objections.
I like the scientists, the skeptical, the closed-minded scientists to take me on.
And I promise this closed-minded skeptic scientist, I said, take me on.
You know, put up or shut up.
If you say there is fraud, what aspect?
We controlled all security.
And I said, we're more than happy to leave it to you regarding security.
So have you actually done this, for example, with David?
Have you put him in a situation where a bunch of impartial investigators have put him in a situation that he can't control and then checked him out?
Well, we do it all the time.
I mean, one of the things that you need to understand is that when professional people are sitting with a medium, they're not going to take any nonsense.
They're going to demand tests.
We have tests.
Week after week after week, we would do different tests.
You know, we would put sticky tape across his mouth.
We would put lines down his face.
All of these sort of things.
But you just get tired of doing the same test over again.
But not only that.
We communicated with the top scientists, especially those who showed interest in the paranormal.
And I asked them, you know, because we have background, Wendy and I have background in psychology and scientific method.
We know what we're doing.
What we ask these scientists, what intervening variables we are not controlling?
Please tell us.
Right?
Nobody tell you.
Nobody would write.
Which it shows, you know, when we deal with it.
Now, I don't want to deal with closed-minded skeptics because you just can't deal with them.
They're too closed-minded and you can't go anywhere.
But we like to deal with the non-aligned scientists, those who are able to perceive the paranormal when it's there.
And what would you say to the people who are poised over their keyboards now, waiting to email me?
And look, you're going to get a lot of support.
And I find what you say tremendously interesting.
And, you know, I would love it all to be true because I'd like to talk to my mom and dad again.
So, you know, we all come to it with a personal view.
But those people who are going to email me and say, Wendy and Victor clearly have been swayed and they've bought into it far too much.
In other words, they have ceased to be impartial.
Come on, come on.
Hold it, hold it.
I am a professional investigator.
I am not going to be taken by anyone.
If David, if I even suspected David was dishonest, I wouldn't be talking to him.
I am convinced that David has high integrity and has honesty.
And we're able to perceive the paranormal.
What is it?
Sorry.
What I'm saying is this, that we are not going to swallow blindly anything which is nonsense.
We can prove anything we claim.
Anything.
But, Howard, I don't mind, I welcome any criticism, but I would like them to be informed because I have a whole page of these uninformed critics saying, oh, well, you know, you left the door open.
I mean, that is such a stupid objection or that David was doing all the talking.
That's another nonsense.
And sometimes, Victor, maybe, and Wendy, the best proof of all is the stuff that you cannot quantify in any scientific way.
You said that your father, who died 50 years ago, kissed you.
Now, on many levels, you'll know whether that was genuine or not.
I would have thought.
Absolutely.
And don't forget, too, that a good, oh, I'd say a good 40% of the people who sit with David are mediums themselves.
So they're mental mediums.
And when they go out of the salance, they often will continue the conversations with the people that came through.
We hear that over and over and over Again.
You know, it's the people who investigate physical mediumship are very highly experienced.
And remember, too, this is just one area of the evidence for the afterlife.
In our book, we've got 20 areas of evidence for the afterlife.
We've concentrated on physical mediumship because it's the most dramatic.
But there are another 19 areas.
And physical mediumship has been around for 150 years.
When you research it, the caliber of the people who investigated physical mediumship was incredible.
Hold it, hold it.
Just before, I came across a couple of scientists who do not accept physical mediumship at all.
And one of them is one of your favorite investigators, Alan Gould.
He thinks it's all T-Claude, this ectoplasm.
Yes, well, Alan Gould.
I spoke to Alan Gould when I was just a boy broadcaster in the 80s.
But listen, I don't care who he is.
The thing is, he doesn't know what he's talking about.
He is 82 years old this year.
I'm more than happy if he has the fortitude and the courage and to be objective to attend one of the sciences to see for himself.
In red light, he can see this ectoplasm being exuded from the medium.
Well, I do remember interviewing him when I was very, very, very much younger.
I mean, this is more than 25 years ago.
It was the very beginning of my...
It was a project.
And I went to the university and interviewed him.
And I think he saw a lot of the physical mediumship as, I mean, he needs to speak for himself, but he found it very theatrical.
But let me tell you, he saw things and experienced things to do with mediums, and I'm sure you know this, that he couldn't explain.
He told me a wonderful story about a friend, a partner of his, a professional person, I think another professor who'd crossed over and he went to a medium with this person's wife.
And the medium delivered some information that only the person who passed over would have known.
And the wife knew that information, but Alan himself did not know that information.
Yeah, but can you say how compared to what we're doing, Howard, compared to what we're doing, that's so small time, really.
You know what I mean?
I mean, we have in the SPR, from the SPR, we had someone like Montague Keane, who crossed over, and we had Professor David Fontana, he crossed over, and those two conceded that they said the evidence shows clearly the afterlife exists.
But this guy, Alan Gould, even today, he's still on the fence.
He's never, ever said, yes, the evidence shows.
But isn't that if you are a proper researcher, if you are a proper academic, surely you should always be on the fence?
No, no, no, sorry.
No, no, no, no.
This is this scientific perspective.
But if you're a lawyer, right?
If you're a lawyer, you either have the evidence to prove or you don't have the evidence to prove it.
Well, you're looking at the balance of probabilities in law, aren't you?
No?
Hold it.
No, no, no, hold it.
No, hold it.
We know in evidence that there are five levels.
You have the anecdotal.
You have the prima facie.
You have on balance of probabilities.
You have beyond reasonable doubt.
But there's a fifth one, which is beyond Cartesian test.
And what I'm saying to everyone around the world, what we have with David is passes the Cartesian from Descartes.
Doubt anything which can be doubted in relation to David Thompson's work he does.
It's beyond doubts.
So you've done this research with David Thompson.
You're doing this research with other people.
Wendy and Victor, what are you going to do with this material?
What do you do next?
We have to take it.
We're told by William, David's guide, take it, be patient, Victor.
When you're dealing with spiritual matters, you have to be very, very patient.
One thing at a time.
The energy has to be right now.
Unfortunately, in the last few weeks, David busted up from his partnership and that slowed things down a bit.
But Wendy, do you want to say something?
Well, what we're doing, Howard, well, first of all, we've got the book out.
A lawyer presents the evidence for the afterlife.
That's doing very, very well, particularly in England.
Well, I've looked at your review.
Wendy, I looked at your reviews on Amazon.
You've got some very skeptical reviews, but you've got some fabulous reviews, I have to say.
We've got very few skeptical reviews.
Very few skeptical reviews.
And we don't mind them, but we don't accept what they claim because they're raising invalid objections.
Over 150 people gave us five-star reviews.
On all the Amazons.
The other thing that we do, Howard, is every Friday for the last 14 years, we put out a free afterlife report on the latest evidence and research in the afterlife.
Every Friday.
And people can get onto our website, victorzamet.com or afterlife-evidence.com and sign up for that report.
We have videos, we have witness statements, we have audio programs, we have research reports.
Now, we have thousands of people throughout the world who are following that report and contact us.
And the thing is that we don't just tell them stuff, we give them the tools to go and do their own investigation.
We're in touch with a lot of the investigators at the moment.
There's a number of afterlife conferences being held where people are sharing their information.
And we also have a very active Facebook group where people get onto Facebook and talk about their own experiences of the afterlife.
Because for most people and for me included Wendy and Victor to know that the end is not the end would be a tremendous comfort.
I'm sure there are people listening to this now who are perhaps very ill, perhaps knowing that they're nearer the end of the journey than the beginning.
And they would feel great comfort knowing that their life goes on.
I mean look I lost my dad last year.
They put him in hospital on a thing called the Liverpool Care Pathway that hospitals don't do anymore.
We lost him very quickly and he and I never had that last conversation.
I know that he would he was interested in all of these things all his life.
His father was a bit psychic, used to read teacups, believe it or not, during the Great Depression.
My dad always had a bit of that and I have a little bit of that, I think, somewhere down the track.
I'm not sure where.
But he would have loved to know that it wasn't the end.
Oh, absolutely.
I mean, look, I repeat, Howard, we have the absolute proof for the existence of the afterlife.
I'm more than happy for any scientists around the world to take us on, to show him, to convince him that it's happening.
It is real.
And what about those who are offering cash bounties to be able to have any of these things proved?
I mean, the most famous example being James Randi, who's offered, is it a million dollars for years?
That's absolute rubbish.
Now, I had so many people sending me emails.
They say, look, I try to take on him, but he won't respond to me again.
One of them was Professor Jan Vandersen, a physicist who was in Africa.
He had somebody like David, and he could produce this evidence at will over time and space and get these results, brilliant results.
When I met him in Las Vegas, he said, I applied for this million dollars of that guy from Florida.
He wouldn't reply to me.
So you're saying that you've been in touch with James Randy, asking him to come and make your day?
Absolutely.
Yeah, because I have my own million dollar challenge.
Million dollar challenge, that's right.
Yeah, how long has it been?
Well, 14 years.
14 years, Howard.
I told Randy, I said, if you show what we're doing is fraudulent, you get a cooled million dollars.
If you can rebut the existing evidence for the afterlife, anyone who can rebut the existing evidence for the afterlife, they get a million dollars.
Of course, a lot of these things are in gray areas, aren't they?
Like we said right at the top of this conversation, a lot of this is simply imponderable, either because it is just too much for our brains to get hold of, or because simply there are things out there that we can never understand.
I suppose that's the same thing, really.
No, sorry, with great respect, Howard, with great respect, I'm sorry, but I don't expect this afterlife is gray area.
We can prove it 100%.
Anybody, anywhere, anytime.
Well, can I look?
I hope that both of you, Victor and Wendy, you sound so vibrant.
You know, I hope that you both live for many, many, many years now.
But I wonder if the ultimate test would be for one of you or both of you to write something down, some information that you can be sure that nobody else knows, put it in a safe, time-date it, and then when either of you die, which I hope is very, very far in the future, go to a medium, try and get that information out, and then open the safe.
Isn't that proof?
That would be proof, wouldn't it?
It has happened.
Look, Howard, do you know that has happened?
Okay, who?
Gary Schwartz has been working on this.
Susie Smith.
But what Montague King did, he died and he came through David Thompson about three or four times.
Right?
And he told his wife, Victoria.
Veronica.
Sorry, Veronica to attend.
Now, as Wendy said before, Veronica swears it was his voice.
It was her husband's voice.
She says, I know my husband.
It was his voice.
And what he said, what he said, this is exactly what he told me he was going to say when he crosses over.
I don't believe, I mean, for those who have not done their homework, it may be a gray area, but for me and for Wendy and for David.
And when you look at the research, when you look at the volumes of the serious researchers, all of them began as atheists, or not atheists, as skeptics.
All of them, many, many of the researchers said, we're going to investigate this stuff to prove it's all a lot of hoax.
And every single one of them who seriously investigated it came out totally convinced.
You've only got to look at the literature, particularly of the, I mean, in our book, in the introduction, we have two pages of names of these investigators.
This is not just something new that's happening today.
You know, we have people, some of the most brilliant scientists who ever walked this planet Earth said, look, we investigated the afterlife, and the evidence shows, yes, the afterlife exists.
And they wrote books about it.
Sir William Barrett and Sir William Crooks and Sir Oliver Lodge and the early ones.
And there are so many, many.
But do you know something?
Do you know something?
There isn't one scientist who ever wrote a book saying there is no afterlife or there cannot be an afterlife.
And as far as your research is concerned with David and others, what happens when we die?
Where do we go?
Oh, that's very simple, really.
I mean, we got it straight from William, and what he told us is consistent with what other highly evolved spirits confirmed.
Very simple.
On crossing over, when the physical body dies, our spirit etheric body comes out of the dead physical body and we have in the afterlife dimension a very solid body then.
and then we are met.
We are always met by somebody by a loved one who will help us to move on to the realm of the lights, you know, or summer land or whatever you want to call it.
But not everyone makes it to the realm of the lights, right?
Those who get themselves involved in cruelty, for example, or selfishness and all that, they may not be so advanced to reach that level.
So what do they go to hell?
No, no, not hell.
They go into a lower region of the realm, of the third realm.
Wow.
How bad do you have to be to get there?
To where?
To get to the Bay.
I mean, do you have to be Saddam Hussein or Adolf Hitler?
Look, I can only tell you the information which was transmitted from the afterlife, especially the one I quote, is again from England.
England is the place in the world for these things.
Monsignor Hugh Benson, in his fantastic book, he's Oxford educated, and he tells us that those who are enormously cruel on earth, they end up down in the lower end, which is very dark, very horrible, very unpleasant, really horrific place.
But it's not forever.
No, no, no, no.
That's a critical thing.
So what, Wendy?
You're saying that they can earn their passage out of hell.
It may take eons of time, thousands and thousands of years, but one day, because we are told we are the spark of the divine, one day, even after thousands and thousands of years, that spark of the divine will see the lights, and then slowly and slowly will come back to the lights.
Now, Houdini came back as Houdini when the anthrax.
Oh, yes, yes, yes.
Yeah, but there are those who believe in reincarnation.
I'm wondering why Houdini didn't reincarnate into somebody else.
Oh, Reincarnation doesn't mean that when we die, we're going to come back straight away.
No, no, no, no.
There could be a delayed time of 100 years or 200 years.
Reincarnation is very controversial, Howard.
Some of the spirit teachers say it's not linear.
It's not just like one person goes back and then they quickly pop into another soul.
They talk about us being multi-dimensional souls.
Like, let's say, for example, you are part of a bigger group and one of the other groups may take another incarnation that you can actually share.
But it's not quite as simple as that.
Right.
I understand.
So there may be aspects of, say, me that will come back, but the essence of me will stay over there.
Exactly right.
And they do say that we don't incarnate, like when we incarnate here, there's still part of us which is in the spirit world.
I mean, this is coming directly from the afterlife.
This is not just we are making it.
This is not our thought.
This is how what I call a higher source transmits information.
This is why would we know?
What would we do?
Well, fascinating conversation, Wendy and Victor.
We need to repeat this when you've done some more work.
How does it make you both feel, though, as you stare as we all do at the end of our lives and you think, well, what that's going to be like?
Has it changed your perception?
Does it make you feel easier about dying?
Oh, absolutely.
Yes.
I was born a Catholic, you know, and they put so much fear into me.
You know, every time I put my right hand in my pocket, some priest would shout at me, you're going to go to hell for eternity doing that.
So you both feel that.
But I tell you, I lost the fear of death.
Completely with this knowledge, anybody who fears death means they don't have the information.
But once they read the good material about the afterlife, they will lose all fear, as I have done.
The two of you are an amazing team.
Do you anticipate that both of you will be together in the afterlife?
Absolutely, yes.
But we feel strongly.
The other thing is that the afterlife is not that distant.
One of the things that we're told is that we go to the afterlife when we sleep.
Our spirits move out of our body.
So people need to understand the afterlife is not distant.
It's somewhere that we're there and we're here at the same time.
We're there already.
We're already there.
Absolutely.
And that's the hardest thing of all for us mere mortals to get our heads around, I think.
Oh, that's right.
Because remember this, Howard, I think you will agree with me on this one.
Why a lot of people are skeptical, this is because it became deeply entrenched because of 2,000 years of the church saying, don't have anything to do with the paranormal.
And Arthur Finlay, another great British researcher, said that between 1272 and 1835, the church killed over 20 million people who were burnt at the stake because they are so, well, many of them, because they associated themselves with the paranormal.
They were either mediums or psychics or anybody, anywhere who supported them was killed.
So basically, you think we're living in more enlightened times now?
No, absolutely.
But can you understand that enforced belief for more than 800 years, how that can become entrenched in our values, in our culture, and in our history.
Howard, you must have noticed in the last 10 years a huge change, a huge shift in the willingness of people to talk about their experiences.
Oh, enormously.
I mean, there was a survey last year, wasn't there, that said more people than the media would have you believe think that a lot of these things, aliens, extraterrestrials, life after death, believe these things are real.
I think the mainstream media is a long way behind how people think.
Absolutely.
Yes, absolutely.
I mean, when we come across someone who is credible from the afterlife, we know that information is of great value.
Okay, well, look, I'm going to have to park this conversation there because my webmaster will get onto me for running beyond an hour.
But I've enjoyed this.
I want to do this again.
I'd like to see you in the UK.
David, I would like to talk with.
And, you know, for personal reasons, I'd certainly be very, very keen to do that.
But it's lovely to talk with you both.
If people want to know about your research, your work, and the book, what do they do?
Where do they go?
Go to our webpage, www.victorzamet, z-a-m-m-i-t.com.
If you're in America, it's Z-A-M-M-I-T.
And we get caught up with that in America.
And that means you can sign up for our free Friday afterlife report.
You can Google that.
If you can't think of anything else, go to Google and type Friday Afterlife Report and you'll get to our page.
You can sign up and then you'll have lots and lots of interesting reading and listening.
Well, I think you've got a lot of interest around the world.
I typed into a search engine, I think it was Yahoo, but it may have been Google.
Victor Zedd.
I just typed in Victor Zed and you came up immediately.
All right.
You're top of the rankings, Victor.
Victor and Wendy in Sydney, thank you very, very much.
I know it's very late at night for you now.
It's morning time still here in the UK, but let's talk again and thank you very, very much.
Good to be with you.
Thank you, Howard.
And thank you, listeners.
Well, the very forceful thoughts of Victor Zamet in Australia, retired lawyer who says he's made the legal case for the afterlife.
Do you think he did?
Let me know.
Go to my website, www.theunexplained.tv, www.theunexplained.tv, and you can send me an email or make a donation from there.
Just follow the links.
Thank you to Adam Cornwell.
None of that would be possible without him.
He gets the show out to you and also maintains the website.
And above all, thank you to you for your continued support.
Thank you very much for the nice things you said.
And in any way you can, I know you're doing this anyway, spread the word about the unexplained because one of these days, we are really going to get there.
When I think of how we started 171 shows ago and where we are now, we've made a quantum leap.
It's been hard.
There's been a lot of ups and downs, a lot of work involved along the way.
But for me, and I hope for you, it's been worth it.
Thank you.
My name is Howard Hughes.
I'm in London.
Until next, we meet here on The Unexplained.
Stay safe, stay calm, and stay in touch.
Take care.
▲
Export Selection