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Dec. 8, 2013 - The Unexplained - Howard Hughes
01:06:36
Edition 135 - Brien Foerster

This time Brien Foerster in Peru - and the truth about the Incas and AncientCivilizations...

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Across the UK, across continental North America, and around the world, on the internet, by webcast and by podcast, my name is Howard Hughes, and this is The Unexplained.
Thank you for your great feedback for my recent shows.
That's Jesse Ventura, Jim Mars, and Robert W. Sullivan, who talked, of course, about the Masons and Freemasonry in general, which was an interesting and controversial show.
We'll have all of those guests back on in the future, but really, really gratified to know that you enjoyed those shows.
Now, before I say anything else on this edition of The Unexplained, I just want to explain to you the circumstances under which we're recording this one.
I literally have just rushed home from work where I've been breaking the news on a radio station about the death of Nelson Mandela, which, of course, is just about the only news story in the world at the moment as I record these words.
Nelson Mandela has a particular part in my life, believe it or not, because some 19 years ago when I was working at London's Capital Radio, I was invited to go to the South African Broadcasting Corporation just a couple of months after the elections and do some journalist training for broadcasters there.
It was a remarkable experience for me that in many ways changed my life.
And I met some truly amazing people, some people of great fortitude and courage.
And yes, South Africa was a divided nation, but day to day, the ordinary people of every race and color and creed that I met had a remarkable knack of getting on.
And that continues.
If you're listening in South Africa, you know what I'm talking about.
That ethos there, that spirit, continues to this very day.
And part of that, I think, is down to Mediba.
That's the name they have in South Africa for Nelson Mandela.
A remarkable man.
I was also lucky enough for a broadcast for Capitol Radio.
To stand in Mandela's cell at Robin Island, the prison colony, the island just off Cape Town, and try to understand how that man existed in that tiny little space where he had the other inmates and the guards and books for company.
I don't know how he managed to retain his sanity and develop as a human being, which he clearly did, during a lot more than two decades of incarceration.
And eventually, proving the adage that the good guys always win, he did succeed.
He did triumph.
And the evils of apartheid ended.
And South Africa, of course, found itself embarked on a brand new course.
And once again, South Africa is involved in another journey now.
This journey is without Mandela, but with his spirit.
I needed to say those words because Nelson Mandela played a part in my life and has always been a great inspiration.
And he is an enormous loss to all of us.
Okay, on the show this time, we have a man called Brian Forster.
And his thing is ancient civilizations, in particular, those of Peru.
Some of the things you're about to hear, I think, will amaze and fascinate you.
And I'm sure they're going to be things that you haven't heard before, unless you've studied this man's work intensively.
So we'll get to Brian Forster in the US very, very soon.
Just to say thank you very much to Adam Cornwell at Creative Hotspot in Liverpool, a guy who's incredibly busy at this time of year as we come up to Christmas and the end of the year, but is still finding time to maintain the website and get the shows out to you.
So thanks, Adam.
Thank you to Martin at this time of year.
Martin, another year of your great theme tune.
I've only just had a listener email telling me how great this person thinks it is.
So thanks for that, Martin.
And above all, thank you to you.
Please, if you can make a donation to this show, do so.
Go to the website, www.theunexplained.tv, www.theunexplained.tv.
That's designed and created by Adam Cornwell at Creative Hotspot in Liverpool.
And there you can leave me either feedback for the show or you can click on the PayPal link and leave a donation to allow this work to continue and develop during 2014.
I'm going to do some shout-outs now.
I'm going to have to be quick about them before we get to Brian Forster.
Dave in London, thank you for your email.
Stephen Irving, trucking through Norway, nice to hear from you today.
Mike in Boston, Justin, very much liked Robert W. Sullivan, who was the guest on edition 134 about Freemasonry.
Thank you for that.
Martino suggesting a UFO viewer, Ed Grimsley, who uses night vision.
Thank you for that.
William, suggesting somebody who was a guest on my radio show, Steve Quayle.
We'll try and get him back.
Randy at the University of Miami.
Thank you for your email, suggesting a cryptozoologist.
Dana, lovely comments, Dana.
Thank you very much.
Darren in Longsight in Manchester.
Hope you're okay.
Robin, Ohio, wants to hear Edward Snowden on this show.
I'm not sure what they'd do to the unexplained if we did that.
It would be an exclusive, though, wouldn't it?
Carlton in California at, is it Laguna Niguel in California?
Beautiful name for a place.
Thank you for your email, Carlton.
Gina Mariposa, thank you for yours.
Let's flip the page here.
Mark, an expat in Canada, thank you for your email.
Keith in Erie, Pennsylvania, thank you.
Art Goet, who says he's a fan of the unexplained.
That's how he signs himself.
Thank you, Art.
Joel in Texas, good to hear from you, Joel.
Adrian, thank you very much.
He wants to hear Jim Baggett.
We'll try.
Brian Hardy, thank you for your email.
Christian Chant, thank you for yours.
Sam in Dorset, thank you.
Fee.
Fee, I want to know more about that book you emailed me about, okay?
Get in touch.
And Damon in Gloucester, UK.
Thank you.
So that's the worldwide spread of listeners.
If you want to email me, please do.
Go to www.theunexplained.tv and you can send me an email through the website.
Phew.
Let's get to the United States now.
Ancient civilizations on the agenda this time.
And Brian Foster.
Brian, thank you for coming on the show.
My pleasure, Howard.
Thank you.
So Brian, which part of the U.S. are you in?
Actually, I'm on the coast of Peru.
I'm actually looking out the window at the Pacific right now.
I live in Peru basically full-time.
Oh, right.
Now I got confused about that because I thought you were in the U.S. and you spent part of your time in Peru.
So you're there full-time, right?
It's a 100% obsession, I would say.
Well, reading your biography, it certainly seems to be because what you started out in Canada and it all began from there.
Maybe we can tell the story before we get into your research.
Well, certainly, I've had an interest in indigenous cultures since I was a Very young child, and growing up on the west coast of Canada, which is where very famous for totem poles, etc., my interest developed to the point where actually I did become a professional totem pole carver for a number of years.
Then I moved to Hawaii and was absorbed in the Polynesian culture for a long period of time.
And about nine years ago, my interest, for some reason, switched to Peru and South America.
Let me ask you about Hawaii because I did a broadcast from Maui about, what, 10 or 12 years ago.
And the people I was working with, it was a music radio station.
We were out there, but recording some features and interviews with the local people.
And most of my colleagues were not really interested in the spiritual side of things.
But I discovered a great deal of stuff there.
There are some amazingly committed and very spiritual people on Maui, aren't there?
Oh, definitely.
And actually on the various Hawaiian islands, but Maui and Kauai are the two that have very strong spiritual things happening now.
And, you know, very strong energy centers, you might say.
And that's true.
And there seemed to me to be two kinds of people there.
Tell me if I'm wrong.
There were the people who'd given up life in the fast lane in Los Angeles and gone out there to enjoy that and smoke a bit of pot and what have you and enjoy the surf.
And there are the indigenous people who are very much steeped in their own culture.
Very much so.
And the thing is that in order to access the ancient Hawaiian knowledge, you really have to be to some degree of service to the people.
So that was what I was doing.
I was helping to build a 62-foot sailing catamaran.
And so because it was a Hawaiian cultural project, I was befriended by many Hawaiian people.
And how did you find that experience?
Did they accept you as one of them in the end?
To some degree, they gave me a Hawaiian name.
Some of them said that I should have skin grass in order to change my color from white to brown.
They would say that in a joking way, but I was very much accepted for who I was.
I asked that for a reason, because by the end of that week of doing that broadcast, and we were very lucky to be there.
We were broadcasting from a hotel called the West In Maui, which apparently is one of the nicest hotels on Maui.
So we were very fortunate.
But they would bring people to us, experts from there, and we go out on a few trips as well.
But I remember particularly interviewing a bunch of musicians, local musicians, and these guys were Native Hawaiians, Pacific people, and I really hit it off with them.
But they seemed to sense something about me.
So these people at the end of the night made a beeline for me.
And we talked about the ghost stories of Hawaii.
And we talked about the ancient, you know, the sense of themselves that people have there going back thousands of years.
But it seems to me that they are incredibly perceptive people.
Yeah, they are.
And you're very fortunate to have been given access to that because it's not something that's commonly done.
It's when they read your, I think, your heart and see that you come from a good place, that they're willing to share nuances of their history and spiritual aspects.
Yeah, I just, I found that very impressive, and I've never really been able to explain it, but I really did get on with them.
And there was a woman presenting a radio show there.
She played a lot of Hawaiian music and was very into all of this stuff.
I think the radio station was called Ka'oi, K-A-O-I.
And, you know, she was, again, very much part of all of this.
And I came away from this beautiful paradise uplifted.
I came back to the smoke and the speed and the grime of London, feeling much better about everything.
Oh, that's great.
So, all right, let's get on the journey to Peru now.
So you start interested in the native people in your own native Canada, the west coast thereof.
You end up in Maui, Hawaii, and then what takes you to Peru?
Well, basically, because I was living in Hawaii and learning a fair bit about the history and the culture, they were, of course, a seafaring people.
So the question is always, where did they originally come from?
And that seems to have been Tahiti.
So I had to explore most of Polynesia in order to find what I thought was the focal point or the homeland, which is the island of Raatea in the Tahitian group.
And once I had explored that area for some reason, that satisfied my curiosity.
And then after that, I literally woke up one morning with the word Peru being repeated in my ear.
And so I bought a ticket and flew to Cusco, which was the Inca capital, and just basically fell in love with the Inca culture, the landscape, and the people.
And there's a lot to like, but we can't leave the story behind there.
Something whispered in your ear?
Well, basically, yeah, I wouldn't say whispered in my ear, but shouted in your ear.
The word Peru just kept repeating itself.
And I thought, well, what does that mean?
It's like, oh, I've never been to Peru.
Oh, Machu Picchu is in Peru.
Maybe I should go have a look at that.
And were you used to having experiences like that?
Was it something that happened to you?
Oh, very much so.
Honestly, I was just listening to your interview with David Icke.
So some of his experiences echo mine.
Well, because you know that it all happened for him.
That's where it all began for him in South America.
It did, actually, at this one site called Silustani, which is where he had this incredible download.
So I've been a person who's been, I've listened to my intuition, and when my intuition tells me to fly somewhere or go somewhere, I generally follow it.
And it's given me a very rich life because of that.
And did you sell up, give up everything upsticks, completely uproot to go to Peru?
Oh, yes, I did.
That's a hell of a move to make you had to be fairly sure in your heart that you were going to find something that was worth finding there.
Well, it did.
And I did it incrementally.
Like my first trip to Peru was, I think, about a month, and then six months later, I came back here for six weeks, and then six months later for two months.
And just when I would go back to Canada where I was living, I just became less and less interested in what was going on there and more and more intrigued with what I felt I still had to learn here.
So two and a half years ago, I basically sold everything off and have only been back to Canada twice since then.
So if you want to know about ancient civilizations in Peru or an ancient civilization in Peru, it's not something I guess you're going to find in textbooks out there.
It's all got to be primary research.
You've got to go and literally dig and talk to people and try and make your own headway, I presume.
Well, the initial thing is to read history books, to read the Spanish Chronicles, and then from there, it's, yeah, most of the really interesting information is not in text form.
So you do have to explore and in a synchronistic way meet people.
And it's amazing how many people have little pieces of a giant puzzle, which is what I'm trying to piece together.
And who were the Incas?
Well, the Inca actually were a mildly mysterious people because they appeared in the area of Cusco, Peru, about 1100 AD and became the driving force, developing a very sophisticated civilization that by the time the Spanish arrived in 1532 stretched from Colombia in the north to the middle of Chile and Argentina in the south,
the Pacific Ocean on the west side, and the Amazon jungle on the east.
So it was a vast territory that they had developed a confederation in by the time the conquistadors showed up.
And how did they run that confederation?
Because I have this view of Avincas as being smiling, peace-loving people.
Is that how they did things?
Well, the thing is, if you read the Spanish Chronicles, they're very stilted because of the European viewpoint and the Catholic conditioning.
So some of the writings of the Spanish were very nasty, but it's through over time I've learned that the high Inca, for example, was not a king as one would think of in, say, England or Europe, like a brutal overlord.
They were in fact the caretakers of people.
So by nurturing the population, they got much higher productivity from the people.
And because the Inca were very much into taxation, the more productive the people were, the better the Inca wound up being so was that an enlightened dictatorship then, would you say?
Yeah, I would say it was a very enlightened civilization.
And that's why also they had trouble with the Spanish, because the Spanish were veteran liars.
And so anytime that the Inca would inquire as to what the Spanish were doing there, the Spanish would basically lie to them.
They'd say, we're only here in a transitory way.
We plan to travel farther south because we have appointments with other people, when in fact they were spying out, looking for gold and thinking about how they were going to overtake the people and their land.
Before the Spanish arrived, what sort of state was their civilization in?
You said it had spread far and wide.
It was clearly very successful.
They learned about taxation.
It was a reasonably benevolent dictatorship.
What did they have and what could they do?
Well, the thing is they had a, because the territory was so large, they had a highly evolved road system.
So they were able to distribute and move people and products, agricultural and other products from one area to another.
So there was a lot of equality.
The downfall happened when smallpox arrived via Panama.
It traveled through the native communities to the north and decimated a high percentage of the Inca population, which resulted in a civil war.
And it was during this civil war that the Spanish arrived and they were able to take one side of the civil war.
And by doing that, they were able to take over the entire people.
So the Incas' downfall was a kind of double whammy.
It wasn't just the marauding Spanish telling their lies and aggrandizing themselves.
It was also the natural process of disease.
It was.
Actually, disease starting in Panama, which was the Spanish center, was the problem.
Because these people were not immune to even the common cold, smallpox would kill a large number of people within three days.
And so this caused destabilization of the civilization.
And then, again, that's what caused a civil war.
And the Spanish themselves loved to depict themselves as being these heroic people, when in fact, in general, they were third-class citizens of Spain.
And that's why they became the conquistadors.
They were trying to find a better life for themselves on this new continent.
And I asked you what they could do.
Basically, I was hinting at a question that asks about whether they had any special ancient knowledge and were able to perhaps do things, achieve things, cure things maybe that we've lost, techniques that we've lost in these subsequent thousands of years.
Well, actually, they did have, and it's still present today, a very keen sense of natural medicine.
The Inca themselves were able to develop 200 varieties of potato and 200 varieties of corn, as well as other crops.
So without resorting to genetically modifying anything, they were able to create plants that were very specific to every microclimate in their world.
And what about, I've had people on this show before talk about a thing called ayahuasca, Which is this elixir that apparently makes you hallucinate but connects you with spirit?
Are they the people behind that?
No, actually, that's more of an Amazon jungle medicine.
I've taken ayahuasca myself, as of course, has Graham Hancock on multiple occasions.
And it's very much a medicine that allows you to access aspects of consciousness which are not possible without using it.
It's actually, it opens incredible doors to perception.
Is it banned in the U.S.?
I'm sure it's banned here.
Oh, yes.
It's banned in the U.S. I think it's banned in Canada.
But there's no problem at all with people utilizing it in Peru.
Okay, so the Incas were always told that they were a spiritual people.
What adjuncts did they use?
What aids did they use to assist their spirituality?
How did they get into the state that would allow them to connect?
Well, the Inca regarded themselves as being the children of the sun, like literally descendants from the creator himself.
And so they were a very privileged class of people.
At the height of their civilization, the actual Incas were only about a thousand people who ruled over or guided the destiny of a population of about 15 million.
And in terms of actual medicinal consciousness-altering substances, it was basically the coca leaf which they used and is still used today, and also San Pedro cactus, which is from the coast here, as well as to some degree, probably ayahuasca and other medicines.
Right.
And in terms of their spirituality, where were they at?
I would say they were very highly evolved.
They knew that there were three states of consciousness, the subconscious, conscious, and superconscious.
And again, they were evolved enough to know that warfare was the last or the final option when you were trying to expand your confederation.
So they would use trade and commerce and tell people that they wanted to envelop, that they would improve their state of agriculture, their state of infrastructure and things like that.
And that's why they were able to expand so rapidly and have quite a cohesive confederation.
Now, they developed their civilization over a long period.
Is there any evidence that you've uncovered that they were perhaps helped, not necessarily from this earth?
Well, the interesting thing, again, is that they called themselves the children of the sun.
We more or less know that they evolved earlier than their presence in Cusco on the island of the sun and the island of the moon in Lake Titicaca, as well as the area of Tiwanaku.
And the question is, they would speak of their god called Viracocha, which was descended from the sky, supposedly, but whether that relates directly to off-world beings or not, or whether it's an allegory, I'm still not sure.
But no one actually knows where the Inca came from and where they developed all this incredible sophisticated knowledge.
Do you believe, as others are coming to believe in this century of ours, that the Incas and other ancient civilizations, the Egyptians, others, were connected in some way?
I'm not quite sure.
We're developing, not just me, but many people are developing a theory that there was a very advanced civilization or number of civilizations that existed before the end of the last ice age, which you might call Atlantean, but not referring to a continent.
But we see evidence in Peru, Bolivia, and Egypt of incredible megalithic structures which could not have been built by the cultures which they're prescribed as having created them, because the level of technology was beyond the Egyptians who were more or less a Bronze Age culture, as well as the Inca who were a Bronze Age culture.
So our history, our antecedents go back a lot further than we're being told.
Well, definitely.
I think we've been fed this lie that civilization goes back possibly 5,000 or 6,000 years and that we, before that, we were not much more than hunter-gatherers all around the planet.
I think, as Graham Hancock and others have referred to, we're looking at a lost period of human history.
And you have to go back about 12,000 years, I think, to find actual evidence of the existence of these highly evolved ancestors who, unfortunately, fell into ruin because the Ice Age ending was not a slow, progressive thing.
It was very rapid.
There is some evidence that the oceans of the world rose by 350 feet in the course of only three years.
And that would have caused the displacement of any advanced society who would have a tendency of having ocean or seaports to move to other parts of the world and most likely, in some cases, higher elevation.
I know in your work you've talked about people with elongated heads, people who are taller than the average.
Do you believe that they were the people that you're talking about there?
They were the civilization that you're talking about now.
I think it's quite possible because here in the Paracas area, which is where I'm at, are found the largest human elongated skulls, I believe, on the planet.
And I think the ones that we've been observing here are the descendants of a probably sub-race or other race of humanity that over the course of thousands of years blended with normal humans, but prior to that were a distinct people.
That is fascinating, and that, of course, prompts all kinds of questions, including where did they come from and what could they do?
Yeah, exactly.
Well, the thing is that I've shown some of these skulls to doctors and nurses and dentists and other medical professionals, and they're quite bewildered.
On some of the skulls, there's quite a protrusion on the forehead, this large lump, and that is regarded as being the motor center and the center of higher capabilities.
So if some of these skulls are naturally shaped that way, that's actually what I'm trying to track down are more examples of those, because the vast majority of the elongated skulls are the result or were the result of cranial deformation.
Deliberate.
Yes, deliberate in order to try to replicate the look of someone who lived previously.
So this civilization, and this is a hell of a long time ago, looked up to people who had those elongated heads, who perhaps had something special about them.
They wanted to be like them.
And like people today do all sorts of bizarre things like skin lightning and all the things that people in different parts of the world do to emulate other people.
This idea of, I mean, it sounds horrendous, but of trying to modify the skull, that was part of that idea.
Yeah, that's true.
But the thing is, it was only done amongst the royal class.
And so a child's skull, when the child was probably three months old, it would start to be bound.
And this was done for probably three years.
But since it was the royal class, it's doubtful that it was a painful process because you wouldn't want to torture royal children.
And if it was done in a very slow, progressive manner, I don't think it would have caused too much pain.
But what it might have done is alter the brain chemistry because by reshaping the skull, you're probably also changing the shape of the brain itself.
I heard you mention in one of the interviews that you've done, that's a lot of your materials available on YouTube, some DNA materials, some genetic material that you've got hold of that you've sent to Lloyd Pye.
Yeah, that's right.
I sent samples to Lloyd and they went to his geneticist about two and a half years ago.
And also another geneticist called Dr. Melba Ketchum.
She has samples.
And then a third laboratory is going to receive samples in February.
So we're going to try to do testing of a number of these elongated skulled individuals to see if their DNA varies from ours.
And if it does, to what extent.
Peru is a fascinating place for you to be clearly.
The Incas, a lifelong fascination with you.
Well, now a lifelong fascination with you.
Whatever predated them, how far back do you think the layers go?
How many civilizations do you think predated the Incas?
Well, I think that there were two highly evolved civilizations prior to the Inca.
And again, because the conventional history states that there were no high civilizations in the Andes area much before the Inca, I think we're looking into lost human history.
So I have no trouble at looking back at at least 12,000 years ago.
But we're about to do a new test, which is like a very new technique, which allows us to measure the weathering of stone, which was not, no one was able to do that before.
It's cosmogenic testing.
So it will allow, through this process, us to find out how long stone has been exposed to the elements.
And we're testing actually stone from a site called Pumapunku, which is in Bolivia.
It's a very strange place because the surfaces there are incredibly precise.
The stone is as flat as a glass tabletop.
So that's actually a campaign that we're running right now to finance that testing.
And what are you hoping will come out of that?
Well, the thing is, the conventional archaeologists believe that this site, Pumapunku, was constructed between 1,500 and 2,000 years ago.
So if the cosmogenic testing shows that these flat surfaces were exposed to cosmic rays prior to that, then that means that we have to rewrite the history of that site.
Wow.
So that's almost like putting a plaque on the thing saying established whatever date, isn't it?
It's the same as.
Basically, it is.
I mean, because it's almost the same as carbon-14 in that it's a radioactive substance that you're measuring.
So the more that there, in this case, it's the opposite, though.
The more of this cosmological radioactivity that can be detected, the older the surface has to be.
And it is, you know, it's quite a systematic, or it should be a systematic even deposit over time.
In a place like that, Brian, how far are you allowed to explore?
How far do they let you dig and manipulate?
Well, actually, I'm not a certified archaeologist, so I'm not allowed to conduct my own digs, but there is so much material simply lying on the surface on the coast of Peru and even up around Cusco in places that it's very easy for me or other people to get samples, including the elongated skulls.
I've literally found them out in the middle of the desert, just lying there.
Here in Europe, of course, we looked to Egypt, we looked to Rome to an extent, but we looked to Egypt as a kind of cradle of civilization.
But now we're hearing, of course, there was a cradle of civilization well before that.
Do you believe that where you are now in that area of South America, that is perhaps where it all began?
That was the engine room of everything?
I don't think it was the engine of everything, but I think it was definitely a center.
And again, if the theory is correct that the ice age ended so rapidly and that the oceans of the world rose so quickly, any sophisticated people would have to evacuate where they were and find places to evolve new civilizations.
And I think the highlands of Peru would be an excellent candidate because of high food production, as well as the area of Egypt because of the Nile and its amazing ability to produce food.
And if this very ancient civilization was so sophisticated, it would have had the technology to be able to sail or transport itself to a place like Peru or Egypt.
Exactly.
That's fascinating, isn't it?
And do you believe that within how many generations, within our generation, within our lifetime, you might be able to put some more flesh on those bones?
Oh, I think definitely.
It's happening.
We're getting new pieces of the puzzle almost every week because I'm working in concert with a number of different researchers, thanks to the internet, all over the world.
And so also because my wife and I conduct tours here, we often get experts such as engineers and physicists and other people of great intelligence traveling with us.
And through their eyes, we can see different perspectives that we hadn't seen before.
Of course, you have another problem, don't you?
And that is orthodox science and what we read in our textbooks in school.
Because if the stuff that you are researching now, if all of this comes to pass, then an awful lot of that is just not true.
It is.
And actually, thankfully, I'm not a prominent enough person to have been pestered by them so far.
But I think more and more, the more that I'm able to expose this information through YouTube and the internet and through people visiting, the more the paradigm is shifting in a natural way anyway.
But your primary interest is, and I've been calling them Incas.
In fact, Inca is the word, isn't it, for the plural of the civilization.
Your primary interest is in them because it seems to me that for you, they are the gateway back even further, as you've been discussing.
Well, yeah, the thing is that they were the last of the great civilizations.
There were others before them.
And what I'm trying to do is connect the dots geographically because the elongated skulls, for example, have been found here on the coast of Peru, also in the highland areas around Cusco, around Lake Titicaca as well.
And so by studying the ancient road system, I'm trying to develop basically a roadmap to see how and when these ancient cultures would have been in contact with one another.
And so far, how close are you to being able to find that out?
It's actually quite obvious.
Amazingly enough, where I'm at at Paracas, there's a highway that goes from here to Cusco, and that highway is built on an Inca road, which was built on a much older road.
So much of the Inca road system was not created by the Inca, but it was inherited by them.
And then roads go directly to Lake Titicaca, etc.
So I'm even looking farther afield now because since I'm on the coast, there are, I think, connections with ancient connections with Polynesia and possibly the Middle East as well.
After the Inca effectively died out, what happened then?
What happened to the remnants of their culture?
Did it just completely fade away?
Did it get buried?
Was it like, you know, Pompeii covered in dust and ash and just forgotten?
Or was there something or someone carrying some of it on?
Well, a lot of it has been, you know, carried secretly because the Catholic Church was very brutal with these people.
And of course, the way to conquer a people is not necessarily through force, like physical force, it's through psychic and mental reconditioning.
And so that's what happened.
But luckily, in Cusco itself, there are still people who carry aspects of the knowledge.
It's a question of piecing all of these bits of the puzzle back together again.
Because as you said, this was a civilization which had an elite.
This was the benevolent dictatorship.
They controlled at their peak a huge area of different races, different kinds of people.
They would have survived.
And what we're saying is that a kind of re-education process will have gone on there.
Somebody will have tried to banish the Inca ideas from those people's minds.
But you can't always be successful in a process like that, not even today.
No, that's true.
There are many native cultures that, you know, to the general public will say, well, we don't know much of our history, but a lot of them do.
It's just that they will not tell, you know, to somebody who walks in from the street about their sacred knowledge.
It's something that has to be learned based upon a need to know kind of thing.
You talked about the Inca trade.
You talked about how sophisticated their civilization was.
What about their mathematics and geometry, machinery, perhaps, or ancient equivalents of machinery?
Did they have anything like that?
Well, unfortunately, there is nothing in the archaeological record in terms of machines, but in terms of information transfer, they had a very sophisticated system of that.
A lot of people will say that a civilization had to have known the wheel and had to have had a written language to really be called a civilization.
The Inca, in fact, had both.
They knew what the wheel was, but they had no use for it because of the terrain.
For them to build things like carts and such things would be useless because of the fact that much of their world is vertical.
And so that's why they depended upon beasts of burden such as the llama.
But also in terms of recorded language, they had three different systems of that, which they were able to some degree to keep from the knowledge of the Spanish.
And so some of that does survive to this day.
Really, Because they always say, and it is a truth, isn't it, that if your language dies out, then you die out.
So if you can preserve one of your three languages or all of them, you're keeping something alive.
Yeah, that's right.
They had three ways of recording it, too.
Of course, they had oral tradition, but they also had a system of knotted cords called the kipu, and that was used for basically statistics.
But it's also being thought now from Gary Orton at Harvard that it's actually binary code that they had developed.
And so it could be that all of their oral traditions might be recorded in these series of knotted cords, as well as they had a hieroglyphic system.
But they were a very secretive people.
They didn't want the general public to know about any of this information.
So it was only the Inca elite who knew how to translate these different forms of recorded information.
So you're trying to crack the code.
You're trying to unlock the information that was the preserve only of an elite and those people with whom they directly associated.
That makes your task a hundred times harder.
It does, but thankfully, again, I do have great informants who live in Cusco who through time take me into their confidence.
And so I'm learning more and more as time goes on.
And of the aspects of their civilization that are kept alive and daily used by those people who are your confidants, what are the most important things?
I presume, is it medicine?
What is it?
It's actually medicine.
Their language is still very vibrant.
Their folklore is still very vibrant.
There are celebrations in Cusco practically every weekend based upon ancient Inca tradition.
And the people of the area are now developing much more of a self-confidence about what their ancestors knew and how they lived prior to the conquest.
So Cusco is a very vibrant Inca city once again.
What do they believe about death, Brian, as far as you know?
To some degree, there is the idea of reincarnation.
The other idea is that your spirit actually goes into the land.
There are the high Andes, you know, these giant white-capped mountains are called in the Inca tradition Apus.
And so it's believed that to some degree when you die, your spirit goes and becomes part of this mountain.
And it's from there that your spirit can overlook, you know, the world in which you lived.
And you can act as a spiritual caretaker of the presently living people.
I remember once going to a ceremony in South Africa.
There was a group of people who wanted to keep some of their traditions alive, and somebody had died.
It was a very beautiful ceremony.
I think it was called some kind of dispatch or dispatcho ceremony, where this person was basically waved off to another realm.
But it seemed to me to be a very beautiful thing.
I don't know if you know anything about that.
Well, actually, there is a ceremony called a despacho here in Peru, and it's actually a giving of gifts to the earth.
So it's a ceremony whereby you make offerings to Mother Earth, usually on a yearly basis, to thank her for keeping you alive through food and that sort of thing.
And that's something that visitors to Cusco can very easily become part of.
There does seem to be a great worldwide interest in the Inca and in the traditions of those people now.
I wonder why that is.
This may sound like a really wacky and weird question, but I wonder if there's some kind of folk memory within us all that has made us and people like you want and need to rediscover this.
Well, I think so, because in essence, we're all indigenous people, no matter where it is that you live on the planet.
It just depends upon when the indigenous knowledge was more or less knocked out of us.
In the case of the Inca people, it was about 500 years ago when the Spanish arrived.
In the case of Great Britain, it was, I suppose, more or less when Christianity arrived.
So people do have this sense of longing for the knowledge of, of course, of where they come from.
I just wonder whether some of it is somehow within our DNA in a way that perhaps we don't yet understand.
I think so.
I think it can go as deep as that.
Obviously, there's very much a subconscious aspect, an ancestral knowledge, and it might actually be anchored into the DNA itself.
One of the things you mentioned in one of the interviews that I read was some kind of cover-up in Lima, that there's a museum there or some kind of institution that has material or materiels that would be very interesting to be able to explore, but they ain't telling.
Well, actually, that was part of the documentary that L.A. Marzulli did.
He was here with a crew last February, and it was the main archaeology museum in Lima.
They had shut down a display of the elongated skulls, and nobody seemed to know what had happened to them, etc.
But they've actually reopened the exhibit, and it's large and beautiful.
I think it's because of the fact that institutions such as the Smithsonian in the United States and possibly the British Museum to some degree have been in some ways trying to cover up what would be called out-of-place artifacts or artifacts that don't fit the conventional historical paradigm.
The Cairo Museum is also quite diabolical in that way.
But, you know, through, again, through the fact that we have such a thing as the internet and people have, you know, cameras in their phones, etc., a lot of artifacts which would have been hidden away Are now being exposed to the planet through this amazing technology that we are utilizing.
See, a lot of this stuff, it seems to me, is information management.
And if you have a version of the truth, or the beginnings of a version of the truth, that is not the orthodox version of the truth, then in previous eras, the gatekeepers, those people who own the museums and run the governments and all the rest of it, they would have been able to stop you getting that information out.
But precisely as you say right now, because you have internet connections with people like Graham Hancock in the UK, you can all club together and you can pool your information and no one really is going to stop you.
No, that's true.
And the thing is that there are so many different researchers.
You know, Graham had a horrible time because he was being attacked by the conventional academic establishment.
But now there are thousands of us.
So there are too many of us for any of these people to focus their energy on.
And because I'm starting to utilize science much more to back up my findings, then anyone who wants to dispute what I'm looking at has to look at the hard science and dispute the hard science.
This is a hard question, maybe.
Why are you doing this?
Can you sum this up?
What is it within you that wants to do this?
Well, it's actually a childhood fascination.
I was fascinated by the Egyptian pyramids and anything mysterious when I was a kid.
And so luckily now, it's become my profession to some degree.
But is it a desire within you to bring this ancient information to light to perhaps utilize it in the modern era?
Well, it is.
I think a lot of this ancient information shows us that we as a human race are far more complex and far older and sophisticated than what conventional school has taught us.
And it's just an innate natural desire for people to follow their curiosity, I think.
And I'm fortunate in that I get to do this all the time.
You do, and it sounds utterly, utterly amazing.
I'm very, very jealous.
Of all the information that you've uncovered while you've been in Peru, and you sound to me to have been incredibly busy since you've been there, what's the most mind-blowing thing that you've discovered?
The one that's really made you go, wow, is that so?
Well, again, I would say it's the stone structures in cities like Cusco and Tiwanaku and Pumapunku, which clearly were not made by a Bronze Age culture.
And the Inca were the most sophisticated technologically, if one reads conventional history.
So because I've been able to take engineers to these places, they are dumbfounded by the precision of the stonework.
And most of them, well, actually none of them can figure out how it was done.
The other thing is quite recently, because we found skulls on the coast of Peru that have brownish red auburn hair, we've been able to have some of that hair tested in the United States, and it's been proven to be genetically red.
So what we're looking at is we're looking at contact between the Native American people and some other race at least 1,500 years before Columbus.
That is amazing.
That's some kind of hybridization happening back then.
Exactly.
And what would you like to be able to come out with?
Do you want to be able to come out with a definitive book on all of this?
Where would you like to be?
Let's look forward, I don't know, 10 years from now.
Let's spin the wheel.
What would you like to have in your hand?
Well, basically, I've written 13 books so far, and I have three more in process.
What I'm most eager to find out, and what will take the longest time, is to find out the actual essence of who these people were living in Peru.
Were they 100% Native American people with genetic anomalies?
Or were they mixed with people from different parts of the world at least a thousand, if not many thousands of years before Columbus?
It's basically looking for tangible evidence of sophisticated civilizations being able to cross oceans thousands of years prior to what we've been conventionally taught and the idea that there was a highly advanced civilization globally or civilizations globally prior to the end of the last ice age.
It's actually seeking the riddle of Atlantis.
Because we've all been amazed lately by these tales of the Egyptians and their nautical adventures and growing proof that they were able to sail and go places.
But if there were people before that, if there was a civilization even way before them, that was also able to explore and travel and move themselves when necessity dictated, then that is pretty fundamental and important stuff, isn't it?
Well, it is definitely.
And of course, we are decoding some of the enigmas.
For example, the great Sphinx of Egypt, Robert Schock, the geologist, has conclusively shown that the sculpting of the Sphinx was done at least 2,000 or 3,000 years prior to the existence of the dynastic Egyptians.
And so the Sphinx was there when they arrived.
It's quite probable as well that the great pyramids on the Giza Plateau were also constructed prior to the existence of the Egyptians.
And as well, there were structures, as I've said, in Cusco and Peru and Bolivia that were made using high technology prior to the existence of high technology as we know it.
So this technology either came from that other civilization that had to flee and site itself elsewhere, or there might have been some input somewhere down the line from, and we hinted at this earlier on in the conversation, something cosmic.
It could very well be.
It could be a combination of the two.
In your investigations in Peru, what about magic?
Does that figure in things anywhere?
It very much does, just as it does in Hawaii and other places as well.
There are people who have the capability of working with what one would call white magic, which is where you're doing something beneficial for yourself and for the world at large.
And there are those who are using black magic, which is where they're doing things for their own selfish interests.
So definitely that's something that you find anywhere you visit an area that has a long human history.
I'm fascinated by this, and I'm sure a lot of listeners to this will be too.
You say that there's white magic, black magic.
What sorts of things have you seen perpetrated?
What kinds of deeds have you seen done?
Well, fortunately, I've seen a lot of mainly good things.
But I do know people who have been the victims of one would call dark energy.
And I think honestly, it's because they haven't been able to or haven't tried to protect themselves properly, being in certain situations.
So that's something that I definitely try to be conscious of.
More than anything, it's jealousy of other people who try to inflict negativity upon you.
And of course, that happens in modern daily life as well.
But there are some people who have some nasty capabilities who are able to do this, one would say, in a psychic area.
You sound like a man who's encountered this.
I have, but not as heavily as I've witnessed from things happening to friends and associates of mine.
Don't stop me.
Can you give me any examples or are you not able to?
Well, actually, yes, there is one person that I had ayahuasca with, a practitioner of that.
And I have basically recommended his services to other people.
And quite recently, I found out that he's kind of fallen off the position that I thought he had and was dabbling in negative things which wound up hurting the people that I had recommended him to.
And so obviously he's no longer someone that I'm involved with.
But it's that sort of thing.
You can often have someone who is trying to do things for the benefit of humanity that wind up, in a curious way, dabbling in nefarious areas and having that become an aspect which corrupts them.
So this person, and I'm sure he's not alone, is a sort of contract doer of deeds.
And just as you can do deeds to the good, you can do deeds to the bad.
Well, exactly.
And deeds to the bad have a tendency to be the result of a selfish intent, such as trying to vex someone because you don't like them, as compared to trying to benefit people by offering them a service or insights to assist them in their path of life.
If you believe what documentaries on television tell you there are people across South America who can make people drop dead, do you believe that?
I think it is possible, or I think it's more common that they can inflict disease or they can find weakness in the person's either health or spirit and try to inject negativity that way.
I've seen that much more than having heard stories of people literally simply dropping dead as the result of some kind of negative energy.
But flipping the coin, if you believe what you read and what you see, South America is crammed with people who claim to be miraculous healers.
You must have come across some of that there in Peru.
Oh, definitely.
And 90% of them are fake.
So you have to be very careful as to who you work with.
I'm surprised it's only 90%.
From what I've come across, the stories I've heard, there are some remarkable frauds.
But there must, I've always thought, be a solid little kernel of people who may be onto something.
Well, there definitely are.
And the thing is, the healers that I know of tend to be people who are quite modest.
It's the ones who have business cards and websites and broadcasts excessively and speak of themselves as being the great gift of God or something that those are the ones to be very suspectful of.
And they take payments by Visa and MasterCard, yeah.
And probably Bitcoin now as well.
Probably.
Listen, I'm sorry I took you on that detour.
You have three books in the pipeline, so if we look ahead into 2014, it's only weeks away now.
What do you hope to achieve during this new year?
Well, I'm not sure if I'll actually be able to finish another book next year because we do have so much activity going on.
We have L.A. Marzuli and his crew coming from Los Angeles exploring the concept of the Nephilim, the fallen angels, and their presence here.
And then also we're going to Egypt on March the 30th for two weeks to explore the lost ancient technology aspect of that.
And that's an open tour that people can join.
We also probably have Dr. Shock coming in August.
I've been invited to go to South Africa as well as Malt.
Yes, and as well as Malta.
We're also building a house, so that's kind of makes things.
You're going to be busy.
The South African connection is that Michael Tellinger?
It's actually through Michael Tellinger, yes.
Because he's involved in an awful lot of fascinating, groundbreaking research, as well as being involved in some politics out there as well with his Ubuntu party.
But I've interviewed him a number Of times, once in person in South Africa, and that man is really plugged into some fascinating research down there that basically says the people who are telling you today that they are the indigenous people of Africa really are not.
This is happening in more than just South America, isn't it?
Oh, definitely.
And actually, I was on Easter Island twice in the last year, once with Dr. Robert Schock, and he's found evidence that there was a sophisticated culture living there possibly 10,000 years before the Polynesians.
So a lot of history is in the process of being rewritten.
It is disturbing some people, not only some academics, but also some indigenous people who think they were the first, when in fact they could very well be the mix of much more ancient people than they believe they are, in the case of Easter Island, for example, as well as here in South America.
Again, we're retracing the steps back through time, and it's simply becoming more and more interesting and more and more seemingly that our world was much more interconnected than we thought it was.
Pre-the internet.
We think we're really clever now because we've got the internet, but maybe the ancients had something just as powerful, if not more so.
Here's an interesting conundrum to leave you with, and I'd be interested in your thoughts on this because you're doing so much intense research.
You're going to record it all.
But you've talked about civilizations, the Inca and whatever preceded them, dying out for perfectly understandable reasons, natural calamities, conquests, whatever.
Now, we like to think that we will all live forever, that the human race as we see it now here on planet Earth is the definitive, the definitive civilization.
This is where it's at and this is where it always will be.
We too could disappear.
Does it concern you that all this work that you're doing may be lost unless we find a way that can record it absolutely in perpetuity?
Well, I think you bring up a very, very good point because the danger, excuse me, the danger is that the way that we're recording information now is becoming more and more vulnerable.
So a book can last, you know, could possibly last hundreds of years, whereas a microchip or a flash drive or whatever could be corrupted by electromagnetic radiation.
And I had precisely that thought last night, that here we are, we think we're so damn clever with all this digital technology, but stuff is stored in terribly ephemeral ways that could disappear.
And maybe previous civilizations got to a similar kind of stage or something analogous to it.
And that is how they too disappeared and their knowledge disappeared because they evolved themselves to a stage where their storage methods were so clever, they didn't have longevity.
No, that's true.
And actually, fortunately, those civilizations left megalithic stone behind.
Whereas, unfortunately, I think we're going to wind up leaving plastic bottles behind.
God help us.
Yes, well, quite a few of them in the Pacific right now.
It's a terrible thought, isn't it?
You know, because we have to preserve this data.
We have to find a way to do it.
And that is, I think, is the biggest ponderable, if there is such a word we know about imponderables, it's the biggest ponderable that I can leave my audience with now.
You're doing all this valuable work, and Graham Hancock and other people are doing this, and you're into so many investigations as soon as next year.
But how do we record this and make sure that this information and details of who we are and what we are and what we've learned goes forward?
It's an amazing thought.
It is, and hopefully in as many formats as possible, we may, you know, if there was a major electromagnetic disturbance, we would be possibly back to the idea of oral tradition.
But hopefully we'll find technologies or at least find different ways of storing the same information so that something will survive no matter what happens.
Just thinking about Comet Ison, I'm taking you off at a bit of tangent here at the very end.
Of course, the Egyptians were massively interested in the stars.
Were the Inca similarly interested in the stars?
They were interested in the stars, but not as much.
They were more concerned with studying the heavenly bodies for agricultural purposes, as in the solstices and the equinoxes.
But they did have this obsession with the Pleiades star system, which of course relates into a lot of extraterrestrial accounts of things.
So that could be the cosmic connection, the Pleiades.
It could be.
Well, it could very well be.
And that's something I'm trying to look at is trying to study more and more who this Viracocha creator was.
And was that the ultimate source of all things?
Or simply some being or someone who came and was a great teacher.
That's one of my major obsessions right now.
The impression you leave me with of the Inca is an incredibly decent and practical people.
They use their knowledge sensibly.
They were not interested in banging people's heads around or conquering other civilizations, other races.
They were interested in furthering agriculture and doing reasonable things that advance knowledge.
That's the impression that you're leaving me with.
Well, the Inca had three basic rules of how to live.
One of them was work hard.
The other was be loving.
And the third was learn.
And that was it.
Well, I don't think you can say any more than that.
What a pity we seem to have left behind some of that stuff in 2013.
What a pity this world doesn't live by all of those tenets all of the time.
That's true.
Or maybe I'm just too opinionated for my own good.
A great pleasure to talk with you, Brian.
I'm so pleased that we were able to make this happen.
If people want to know about you and your research, where is the best place they can go to see it?
My two websites.
One is hiddenincares.com and the other is hiddenincavideos.com.
Brian Forster, in Peru, not in North America at all, in South America, very definitely.
Thank you very much.
One final question.
I heard birds in the background.
Have you had the window open throughout this?
No, actually, the windows are closed, but the birds are very loud.
And make me very jealous.
What's the temperature right now as we record this?
It's about 80 degrees Fahrenheit.
That is about 27 degrees Celsius for our European listeners.
And if I tell you that the temperature in London right now as we speak, we're recording this in the afternoon time, is about 8 degrees Celsius.
That's a positive outlook on it.
And that's 46 Fahrenheit.
So you're a very, very lucky man for a whole variety of reasons.
Brian Foster, thank you very much.
Absolutely my pleasure, Howard.
Thank you.
The work of Brian Foster, and I'll put a link to his work at my website, www.theunexplained.tv, so you can go and check it out.
And the website designed and created by Adam Cornwell at Creative Hotspot in Liverpool.
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My name is Howard Hughes.
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