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Nov. 21, 2013 - The Unexplained - Howard Hughes
01:05:41
Edition 133 - Jim Marrs

This time best selling Texan author/journalist Jim Marrs on JFK, 9-11 and AncientCivilizations...

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Across the UK, across continental North America, and around the world, on the internet, by webcast and by podcast, my name is Howard Hughes, and this is Beyond Explained.
Thank you very much for your great feedback to the last show, which of course was our special with Governor Jesse Ventura about the 50th anniversary of the assassination of John Fitzgerald Kennedy in Dallas, Texas.
And I know that there'll be much more said about that around this anniversary.
We're going to touch on that subject too.
We have to, with Jim Mars, who is our special guest this time.
More about that in just a second.
Thank you, as I say, for your emails, the nice things you've said, for your guest suggestions.
Please go to the website, www.theunexplained.tv, w dot theunexplained.tv, and the website designed and created by Adam Cornwell at Creative Hotspot in Liverpool.
That is the place where you can leave me feedback, make a donation to the show, which is absolutely vital.
Make a guest suggestion or do whatever.theunexplained.tv.
And on the subject of donations, I've had quite a few emails from people who've said, look, at the moment, times are really hard, so I can't make a donation, but I'd like to in future.
I totally understand that.
Believe me, of all people, I understand exactly where you're coming from.
But like I say, when you can, donations gratefully received.
We are independent media, and your contribution, whatever it might be, helps this work to continue and develop.
And we do have plans for 2014.
Okay, Jim Mars, the guest on this show this time, I'm going to read you just before we get to him in Texas a little bit from his biography, because like a lot of journalists, this man has quite an interesting background.
He's a native of Fort Worth, Texas.
He got a Bachelor of Arts degree in journalism from the University of North Texas in 66.
In 2007, he retired from the University of Texas at Arlington, where he taught a course on the Kennedy assassination since the 1970s.
In 1989, his book Crossfire, The Plot That Killed Kennedy, was published to wide critical acclaim.
Beginning in 1992, Jim Myers spent three years researching and completing a non-fiction book about top-secret remote viewing.
We'll try and get into that here, too.
Among other topics, in 1997, his in-depth investigation of UFOs, Alien Agenda, was published by HarperCollins.
We'll try and unearth more about that on this edition.
And in 2000, the same publisher brought out Rule by Secrecy, which traced the hidden history that connects modern secret societies to the ancient mysteries.
One thing I want to put to him quite early in the conversation is he seems to know an awful lot about an awful lot.
But that's a journalist for you.
We kind of, like a rolling stone, we gather moss in the form of facts and information.
So I'm really, really looking forward to this.
Please keep your guest suggestions coming.
As you can see by getting Jim Mars and Jesse Ventura and other people we've had on here, we can do it.
All right, let's cross now to Texas.
Six hours behind the UK time-wise.
And Jim Mars, thank you very much for coming on The Unexplained again.
Howard, it's great to be with you.
And Jim, it's been an awful long time.
I don't expect you to remember at all, but we were last on radio together back in about 2005 or so, where I think we did about two hours on national radio in the UK.
So I'd imagine there's quite a bit of ground to catch up on.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, and of course, with the 50th anniversary of the Kennedy assassination, it's right on us.
And it's time to back off and not lose sight of the forest for poking around at the trees.
The key to the whole thing is not so much who shot Kennedy.
Anyone could have shot Kennedy.
KGB agents or Castro agents or the CIA rogue agents or the mafia or yes, even the lone nut.
No, the question, Howard, is who has the staying power to cover something like that up?
And it is now pretty obvious.
Even the national polls show that now upwards to 80, 90% of the public now realizes there was a conspiracy to kill Kennedy.
The question now is just whose conspiracy was it?
And you have to ask yourself who has the power to cover something like that up.
And it always comes back to the highest levels of the federal government.
And you think that they are the only people who would have the, whoever did this thing.
And as you said, there are a lot of suspects and have been over the decades.
You think they are the only people who would have the kind of architecture and infrastructure to be able to achieve that?
Yeah?
Absolutely.
I mean, you know, it's ludicrous to think that the combined forces of the Secret Service, the FBI, the police agencies, and the military intelligence people and the CIA and the FBI and for 50 years and they can't figure out who killed the President of the United States, you know, is still controversial.
I mean, it's just ridiculous.
There was a palace revolt.
There was a coup d'état here.
In fact, John J. McCloy, a very powerful banker, sat on the Warren Commission.
And during one of their early meetings in their transcripts, he says, well, it was of paramount importance that we show the world that the United States is not just another banana republic where the government can be changed through conspiracy.
Well, I'm here to tell you that unfortunately, we are just another banana republic, and the government was changed through conspiracy in 1963.
And look, you taught, your biography tells me that you taught a course about this and, of course, wrote a famous book about this.
You are in Texas.
How does that view play in Texas in 2013?
Well, it's kind of like the funny uncle that no one wants to talk about.
Everybody knows that that possibility is there.
In fact, many people, most people, Believe that that's exactly what happened.
In fact, Howard, I can tell you that on the day of the assassination here in Texas, there was more than just a few people that were whispering, you know, Linda Johnson's got something to do with this.
And it's very true because I will even name Johnson, Kennedy's successor, and his old buddy and neighbor, J. Edgar Hoover, the FBI director.
These two men can be said to be guilty in the assassination.
Now, can I prove that Lyndon Johnson and J. Edgar Hoover ordered or orchestrated the assassination?
No, I cannot.
What I can prove beyond any reasonable shadow of a doubt is that both those men took actions that blocked or thwarted a meaningful, truthful investigation into the assassination.
Under our legal system, this makes them accessories.
They are accessories after the fact.
And under our legal system, they are considered just as guilty as the person that pulled the trigger.
But they could have a variety of reasons, LBJ particularly for wanting to move on quickly.
He needed to get on with his presidency.
He had a totally different agenda, the war in Vietnam being one of those things.
You know, maybe he was not involved, but he certainly wanted to make sure that whoever was involved, all of that dirty business did not come out.
Exactly.
And Howard, if you think about it, it only makes sense that whoever was behind the assassination could not possibly have made that kind of decision unless they knew for certain that Kennedy's successor would not be coming after him.
So let's wind back to that day 50 years ago.
You're a Texan.
Where were you?
Believe it or not, this was 12.30 in the afternoon, and I was asleep.
I was a college sophomore, and I was on a degree planned to journalism already.
I had been to Dallas.
I knew who was running Dallas.
I'd even met Jack Ruby and had been in his club.
But I'd had a big test that morning.
And so the night before, I stayed up all night cramming, got up on that Friday morning, went to class, took the test, came back to my apartment, and fell down on my bed and went to sleep.
And my roommate came in and said, hey, wake up.
They shot the president.
She got up and turned on this.
When you woke up, Jim, the entire world literally had changed around you.
Exactly.
Of course, we didn't know that at the time, but it definitely had.
And so we started watching TV, and I remember I'd been watching TV maybe for 15, 20 minutes when they made the announcement that Kenya was dead.
So that means I was on the case about within 15 minutes or so of the shooting.
And what way, this is maybe a crass question, but I can't think of any other way to ask it right now.
Thinking back, and it's a hell of a long time to go back, but what was it like to be there then?
What was the atmosphere?
How were people reacting?
It was a day pretty much like today here in Texas.
It was cool, but shirts leave weather.
It had rained that morning a little bit, and it had gotten kind of chilly.
But then by 10 o'clock, say, the sun came out and the clouds were parting.
By noon, it was perfectly sky-blue, sky, and it had warmed up.
The sun was up.
It was a Friday afternoon.
That's football time here in Texas.
Friday afternoons are always, everybody's out moving around.
They're either going to school, coming from school, or out shopping or getting ready for Friday night.
Friday nights are always big in Texas.
And by noon, it was like sure sleep weather.
And I think there was an aura of excitement in the air.
It's like this is Friday.
Things are happening.
The president's in town.
And that particular atmosphere, of course, changed rapidly as the word of the assassination spread.
And by evening, I don't know.
Actually, in Dallas, Fort Worth, it was kind of eerie because everything just kind of got really quiet.
Some of the football games carried on, but there was not the usual enthusiasm, and some of them were canceled as the word spread.
And of course, it took Dallas a long time, possibly right up until the era of that TV series and J.R. Ewing, to live down the reputation and the image of being the city that killed the president.
Yeah, that's true.
And I think that's why they're so adamant now trying to keep anyone out of Deedy Plaza.
You realize that the Sixth Floor Museum and the Dallas Historical Commission and the little old ladies and people who were the relatives of the families of Dallas that were prominent at that time are still very prominent in Dallas.
And they have taken out a, they've gotten permission to block off Dealey Plaza during the 50th anniversary because they don't want anybody in there that has some kind of dissenting voice about the case.
They're still trying to push the idea that it was Oswald all by himself.
Well, Jim, I talked very recently, a few days ago, to Governor Jesse Ventura, who, of course, has researched this as well and done a TV show about it and all sorts of stuff and written a new book too about JFK, as many people have.
And he was telling me that admission to this event is by docket or ticket, and people who are of a dissenting view, as you say, are just simply not allowed to be there.
That seems to be the case.
In fact, it's even worse than that.
You have to apply for a ticket, and then if you're selected to get a ticket, you have to be vetted by the Dallas Police Department.
And if they don't like you, then you don't get in.
And If it's obvious that you think there was something other than just Oswald by himself, it seems like that all of a sudden it's really tough to get a ticket.
And you can't even use your ticket until you have to pick up your ticket the very morning, Friday morning.
And even if there's cloudy and if it starts raining, though, you cannot carry an umbrella or anything into DV Plaza.
It's just insane what they're doing.
And what about you?
What will you be doing?
Are you able to go there because you've been a dissenting voice or not?
That's true.
Well, I've been in Dallas for many, many, many of the anniversaries, and I'm going to be in Dallas this coming weekend as to whether or not I get to go into the plaza.
I guess that's up to the city.
Young journalist as you were, journalist on the way up, learning your craft.
At what stage were you aware that people started to doubt the official explanation that this was the work of a lone gunman, Lee Harvey Oswald, a man who said he was a Patsy?
At what stage did people start to scratch their heads and say, hell, there was more to this than met the eye?
Well, if you had been in the Dallas-Fort Worth area at the time, you would have found that there were a lot of dissenting voices.
Like I said, I heard more than a few people whisper and say, you know, Lyndon Johnson must have had a hand in this.
That was just one of the initial impressions.
Did that surprise you?
Because Lyndon Johnson, of course, is Texan through and through.
That's true, but that's the whole thing.
People inside Texas knew his character, knew his background, knew about the famous Missing Box 13, knew about Henry Marshall's so-called suicide, shot in the chest four or five times with a bolt-action 22 rifle.
They ruled it a suicide.
And now one of Johnson's old buddies, Billy Solestas, has testified that Johnson ordered his chief hitman, Mac Wallace, to take out Henry Marshall.
Sorry, who was Henry Marshall?
Henry Marshall was an agriculture official who was looking into the business dealings of Lyndon Johnson.
And according to Billy Solestas, who testified to a grand jury, there was a meeting and Johnson said, well, transfer him to Washington and where we can keep an eye on him.
And they said, no, he's got too much seniority.
We can't do that.
And he said, well, you know, we'll then get rid of him.
And within just a few weeks, Henry Marshall was found shot to death on his ranch in central Texas, been shot in the chest four or five times.
And near his body was a bolt-action 22 single-shot rifle.
And they said it was a suicide.
So Lyndon Baines Johnson, of course, the man who had the most it is claimed to gain from the death of JFK, of course he became president.
That's the truth of it.
But just to make this point, LBJ was in a situation where the world was about to cave in around him, wasn't it?
Because he was under investigation.
A lot of stuff apparently was due to come out about him.
So this was a bad time for him.
He had to do something.
Exactly.
There were three big scandals hanging over him.
TFX, which is a fighter bomber that had been awarded General Dynamics in Fort Worth.
Even though the Air Force didn't want it and nobody particularly wanted it, it obviously was pork legislation.
And then it turned out the Air Force wanted a high-flying bomber and the Navy wanted a low-flying tactical fighter.
So they tried to make it both and it was neither.
It was just a big boondoggle, a lot of wasted money.
So they were after Johnson for that.
They were after him for his association with Billy Saul Estes, where Estes was able to get large government subsidies for not planting crops on land that you couldn't plant on anyway because it was underwater or desert.
And Johnson was mixed up in that.
And then there was also the Bobby Baker scandal, which was one of his aides.
And anyway, it looked like not only was Johnson about to lose his job as vice president, but he probably was facing jail time.
But of course, all that stopped with the assassination of Kennedy.
Why did that stop?
Why did that process of law, though, Jim, those investigations, why did they stop?
The other person who was about to lose his job was Jagger Hoover, because it was widely known at that time and widely speculated that Kennedys would force Hoover to retire because of the mandatory retirement age.
And interestingly enough, about a month after the assassination, Johnson held a press conference in the Rose Garden of the White House and praised Hoover's work and said that we couldn't afford to lose him.
And he exempts him from the national federal mandatory retirement age, thus installing him as FBI director for life.
So Johnson and Hoover, the two men in charge of the investigation, are the two men who most personally profited from the death of President Kennedy.
I know nothing about Johnson's family.
I know he had a wife, Lady Bird, remember that.
He must have surviving relatives.
They must be incensed at claims that he was involved in this thing, I would have thought.
Well, yeah, it's one of these things.
You know, if that's not true, then take people to court and let's get it settled.
But you have to understand that even the Warren Commission, which was the official government investigation, was formed by Johnson with President's discretion funds.
And so, you know, he's been, and then Jager Hoover and the FBI solely directed the investigation.
The Warren Commission had a big problem with that.
They said, but, you know, what if we're not getting the right information?
You know, how would we know?
And they finally decided, well, we wouldn't.
So all we can do is trust Hoover.
Tell me about how you started investigating this then.
The alarm bells, as you've just told me, began to ring for people quite early.
Your personal involvement in this, I mean, God, you taught a course about this at university for decades.
So how did you get yourself involved in investigating this thing and assuming that you were trying to right this wrong?
Well, from the very weekend, I had qualms about what was going on because first off, when I heard so many of the witnesses say that they heard three loud shots and there was one and then a pause and then two right on top of each other, kind of a bang, bang, bang.
Well, at that time I'd been hunting.
I had bolt-action rifles and I knew bolt-action rifles.
And I knew that you can't get a bang-bang with a bolt-action rifle.
You have to cock the bolt, you have to pull the trigger, never mind regaining your sight picture.
Okay, so that troubled me.
But then on Sunday morning when I was up watching TV and I see Ruby step out and shoot Oswald in the basement of the police station, surrounded by policemen, you know, at that point it's like, wait a minute, one lone nut kills the other lone nut.
And so I was never quite satisfied with the official story, but I really didn't have anything to put in its place until, I guess, my epiphany came in the fall of 1972 when Eugene McCord,
one of the Watergate burglars, suddenly broke down and told the judge that actually he was working for the committee to re-elect a president, which tied him directly to Richard Nixon, who had been loudly maintaining that he didn't know anything at all about the break-in.
And at that point, I realized that the president of the United States could, had, and would lie to me.
So at that point, I began to distrust the pronouncements of the federal government.
In fact, see, that's what really the whole thing boils down to, Howard, is a matter of faith.
If you have faith and confidence in the federal government of the United States, then you trust and you believe in the evidence that they present.
And admittedly, it's pretty damning against Oswald.
But if you don't quite trust the government and you begin to look at that evidence quite closely, it begins to fall apart.
The weapon that Oswald had in the Texas Book Depository, a lot of people, including yourself just now, have claimed that you can't get multiple shots off that right off the bat.
It's not possible.
But I have seen videos of people where they've demonstrated that you can do that.
What do you make of that?
Well, let me explain what I'm talking about.
Let me ask you, can you hear this?
I hear it.
You hear that?
Okay, this is an exact duplicate of the 6.5 Mandiker Carcano Italian war rifle.
And what I'm doing here is cocking the bolt and pulling the trigger.
So, what you got is you got one free shot.
Here comes the motorcade.
Bang, bang, bang.
That's as good as you're going to get on a bolt-action rifle.
Not a bang, bang, as everyone in D.D. Plaza reported.
So that one fact alone shows that there was someone else shooting.
Also, another small but critical fact is that the Warren Commission, the House Select Committee on Assassinations, even the AMA have all said that the shot that Kill Kennedy was fired from a high velocity rifle.
Well, the Mandliker Carcano is not a high-velocity rifle.
It's only a medium-velocity rifle.
And so we have another fact that shows that something else was going on.
There's also other facts that have not been brought out that people need to understand.
For example, Oswald was asked by the Dallas police, well, where were you at the time of the shooting?
He said he was in a downstairs lunchroom.
And they said, well, was anybody there with you?
And he said, yes, these two employees of the book depository.
One of them's named Junior.
And he said, and the other's short and stocky, but I don't really know his name.
Well, short and stocky Harold Norman and Junior Jarman were indeed in the downstairs lunchroom eating their lunch.
And my question is, how could Oswald have correctly identified those two if he hadn't been there to see them?
It's ludicrous, isn't it?
It is.
It would be humorous if it wasn't so tragic and real.
But the government authorities just simply came up with a scenario.
Warren Commission had a predetermined conclusion, which was Oswald did it all by himself.
And then they set out to cherry-pick information that would only support that notion.
You know, and this to me is pretty extraordinary because Oswald himself is recorded as saying, I didn't shoot anybody.
I'm just a patsy, which implies he was set up to take the blame.
Well, did the federal investigations ever even consider that maybe he was telling the truth?
And let's look and see if there's any evidence that maybe Oswald was set up.
And no, they just continually went with the idea that he did it all by himself.
Do you think that Oswald was shot by Jack Ruby because whatever part of this Jack Ruby had to play and whoever was behind him, a very impressionable man, we understand.
Do you think it was just simply getting to the stage for the people in charge of that operation, if there was one, where...
Oswald had said, I'm a Patsy.
That was starting to make it look like a plot.
Now, if I was behind the plot, I'd want to shut him up and quick.
Exactly.
Exactly.
And Jack Ruby had come from Chicago.
As a kid, Chicago, he had run messages for Al Capone.
That's how deeply involved with organized crime he had been his entire life.
In fact, he told friends that he really wanted to go to the West Coast and get in with all the movie Hollywood people, but they told him to come to Dallas, indicating that someone was superior over Jack Ruby and giving him his marching orders.
Okay, in the years that followed, the Warren Commission, yes, we had that.
And there was, much later, another investigation, and that left a certain number of issues open.
But that didn't answer all the questions for everybody, and certainly not you.
Yeah?
Yeah, that's certainly right.
The more you look at it, the more things you just get deeper and deeper into it.
And the evidence begins to fall apart.
For example, one of the key things was that on Monday night after there was a press conference, and Henry Wade, the district attorney of Dallas, kind of offhandedly said, oh, have I mentioned we've got his fingerprints on the rifle?
Well, that seemed to pretty well seal the deal.
You know, I mean, fingerprints on the rifle, obviously he was guilty.
But let's look at that more closely.
On Friday night, quite illegally, all of the evidence was taken away from the Dallas authorities by pressure from Washington.
And all of the evidence, including the rifle, was sent up to FBI headquarters.
And the next day, in a document signed by Jagger Hoover himself, it said no usable fingerprints were found on the rifle or even the inner parts of the rifle.
On Sunday morning, Oswald's killed in Dallas.
And on Sunday evening, the rifle is shipped back to Dallas.
And on Monday morning, the two FBI agents, Vincent Drain and Harrison, carried the rifle over to Miller Funeral Home in Fort Worth, where they were preparing Oswald's body for burial.
The funeral home director, Paul Rudy, told me personally years ago and as recently as a year or so ago on national radio that he was there when the FBI put Oswald's dead hand on the rifle.
In fact, he said he had a hard time getting the fingerprint ink off of Oswald's dead hand in time for his burial that afternoon.
My God, Vex Max of absolute despair.
Evidence just goes away.
Yeah, it's Fax Max of absolute desperation to be able to make sure that Lee Harvey Oswald and nobody else is nailed even in death for this crime.
Exactly.
Exactly.
And the very, the Monday after the assassination, when Dallas authorities were still trying to piece together what had happened, and, you know, Jagger Hoover is already putting out a memo saying the thing we have to do is to show that Oswald was the lone assassin.
But while you're at it, you have to consider some of the circumstances.
For example, two hours after the shooting, and Oswald had just been arrested, just taken down to police headquarters, and he had two sets of identification on him.
One says he's Oswald.
The other says he's Alex James Heidel.
And the police are saying, okay, which one are you?
And he's being uncooperative.
He says, you're the cops.
You figure it out.
And yet at that exact time, according to FBI documents released in 1977, we find that Jagger Hoover's on the telephone to his brother, Robert Kennedy, and he says, we have a man in Dallas.
It's Lee Harvey Oswald.
He's an ex-Marine.
He's a pro-communist.
He defected to Russia.
He's a mean-spirited individual in the category of a nut.
So in other words, Hoover's got the whole thing lined out, nailed down, and says, we've got our guy at the very time that the people in Dallas weren't even sure who they had in custody.
Now, the local authorities in Dallas were responsible at that time.
I'm talking about the police and the other authorities there for the investigation.
But the president and his people were having none of that, and that's why they got the body of JFK and everybody connected right out of Dallas very, very quickly.
That's exactly right.
In fact, it's kind of ironic to think that one of the first actions of Lyndon Johnson upon becoming president of the United States was to violate the laws of his own state.
At that time, there were no federal laws about assassinating the president, only the laws against murder, and it was a Texas homicide.
And according to the law, there had to be an inquest by a coroner before you could move the body, before anything could progress.
And yet, waving pistols and cursing and shouting, they pushed the Texas authorities aside, and they whisked Kennedy's body off to that botched autopsy at Bethesda Naval Hospital.
And I say botched because the Commander Humes, who headed the autopsy team, burned his original notes and went back and rewrote the whole thing.
And because reportedly they had even missed one of the wounds to Kennedy, which again shows that something was going on because in Parkland he had a small puncture wound in his throat at about the level of the Adam's apple.
And several doctors said it was a puncture wound, an entrance wound, and it was only a quarter of an inch in diameter.
And yet someone had taken a scalpel and had sliced through that to make it to widen it to accept a half-inch tracheal tube to try to help restore his breathing.
And yet by the time the body was received at Bethesda, this half-inch slit over a quarter-inch puncture hole had become a gaping three-inch long gash, so wide and gaping that the autopsy doctors were not even aware that there was a bullet hole there.
And it's such discrepancies as this, alteration, fabrication, suppression of evidence at the level of the federal government.
This is what changes the Kennedy shooting from a Texas homicide to a coup d'état.
And of course, let's not lose this point.
The whole point about that particular wound is that it literally is the smoking gun.
It indicates that he was shot not from the back, which is where the Texas Depository book depository was, but from the front.
Exactly.
And what about the shootest on the grassy knoll?
What about that person and the missing frame from the Zapruder film and all of that stuff?
What do you make of that?
Well, you know, it's pretty funny, Howard.
If there's any other case, and I told you that a majority of witnesses said that a man, an open car, had been shot from behind a wooden picket fence on this grassy knoll and then I also had a photograph of a man in a rifle firing position firing from behind the picket fence on the grassy knoll and then I had two separate sets of acoustical scientists studying the sound waves and a recording made at the
that matched it up and said there was at least one shot from the picket fence on the grassy knoll.
If I tried to tell you there was nobody there, you would think I was a complete idiot.
But this is the Kennedy assassination, and when I've told people for years there was a shooter on the grassy knoll, I'm considered the idiot.
Well, if there was a shooter on the grassy knoll, and a lot of people believe that now, how on earth in that mayhem, or maybe that's the reason, how on earth did that person get away?
Well, you just said it.
Chaos, mayhem.
They just strolled away.
According to Ed Hoffman, who saw a man running with a rifle behind the picket fence on the grassy knoll, he tossed it to a confederate who was wearing railroad coveralls, and this man broke the rifle down, put it in a railroad bag, and soldered it off.
Okay, Gene Hill and others who had led the charge of spectators who rushed to the grassy knoll because they just knew that's where a shot had come from.
I asked her, for example, what did you expect to find?
And she said, well, I thought maybe I'd see somebody running with a gun, and I could point them out to the police.
When I got up there and looked over the fence, all I saw was railroad workers and policemen, you know, and yet there was supposedly no policemen stationed in that area.
And this is not as bizarre as it sounds, because if you are organizing this at the highest level, if you're doing this with people who are trained operatives, then this becomes like a ballet.
It's choreographed.
Everybody has their thing to do at that particular time, so you can make this happen in the blink of an eye.
Exactly, and particularly it's easy to make it all happen and to cover it all up if you control the investigation from the very top.
When you look at the assassination from the standpoint of, hey, could I do something like this?
Do people I know, could they do something like this?
Could even war-class assassins get away with something like this?
You know, it all looks one way, but when you look at it from we control the investigation, and we can control who says what, and we control the announcements to the press, we control the evidence, I mean, you can see how easy it would be to put out any cover story you want to and pretty much make it stick.
Jim, I want to talk about other things as well, because I'm introducing you to, you know, my listeners who are not only in America, they're in the UK and other places who, you know, you may be new to them, but I want to just ask this, and then we'll move on from JFK.
Do you believe that such a thing could happen now?
I don't only believe it could happen now, I believe it has happened now.
We've seen some recent events, the Boston bombing, the Sandy Hook shooting, the Waco tragedy.
You know, we see a lot of these things, and we could hold whole programs on each and every one of those because there's such an inconsistency and so many strange things, anomalies going on in all those investigations.
But then again, when you can kill the President of the United States and get away with it, then I guess there's really not much that you couldn't do.
9-11, let's talk about that.
Now, I was in New York for the first and second anniversaries of 9-11, so I got to meet an awful lot of people who were directly connected with that.
I also covered it on air to London as it was happening, so, you know, it's part of my life.
9-11 would seem to come into that category as far as you're concerned then.
Here we have something that a lot of people are saying is an incredibly fishy thing.
I spoke with Dr. Judy Wood, who you may know.
Right.
She is somebody who's very skilled in engineering science, has written a book that says that she believes a directed energy weapon was used to bring the Twin Towers down as part of some other bigger agenda that she wouldn't speculate about.
Where are you coming at this from?
Yes.
Well, from the very day that that happened, again, I got up, turned on the TV to watch everything happening, and obviously it was a conspiracy.
If anything good came out of 9-11, it's the rehabilitation of the word conspiracy.
Up until then, if you try to whisper conspiracy, then, you know, you were some kind of paranoid.
There's no question that 9-11 was a big conspiracy, and the question is, whose was it?
Now, let me point out that most people think they know about 9-11, but they know that 19 of these hijackers, these Muslim extremists that were using little box cutters, took over these three airliners and successfully flew them hundreds of miles with no opposition and crashed them into buildings.
wait wait how do we know that well because the government told us that well how does the government know that well it basically comes back to the phone calls of Barbara Olson Barbara Olson a CNN commentator supposedly called her husband three or four times according to him Ted Olson and Ted Olson was Solicitor General of the United States appointed by George W. Bush who was president then okay and
He said his wife called him on a cell phone several times and told him that she was on an airliner, had been hijacked, and that the hijackers had forced the passengers and the flight crew to the rear of the plane, and they were using little box cutter knives, little knives.
And that's how we know.
Well, wait a minute.
Then we find out that you could not use a cell phone from a high-flying aircraft at that time.
It was only a few years later that they developed a chip that allowed them them to talk between airliners in the ground so then Ted Olson changed his story and said, well, she must have called on the airphone, one of those radio telephone things that are in the back of the seat.
That's plausible, isn't it?
Yes, it is, except her particular flight, that particular Boeing did not carry back of the seat telephones.
And then here comes the clincher.
In 2006, at the trial of Zachariah, Missouri, the FBI brought in all of the phone records from 9-11.
And it turns out there was only one attempted call from Barbara Olson to her husband, and it was, according to the FBI, unconnected.
Okay?
So in other words, there was no calls from Barbara Olson.
And yet that's the whole basis of why we have the idea that they use little box cutters to overtake the flight crews on these airliners.
It's just the whole thing, 9-11 is so fraught with inconsistencies and implausibilities and unexplained things that it makes the Kennedy assassination look truly like a deep, dark mystery.
You've researched this, of course you have, and you've written about it.
The people that you've talked to in connection with 9-11, has anybody tapped you quietly on the shoulder and said, look, you're absolutely on the right track.
There was more to this than met the eye.
There was a conspiracy there, and we've been sold a lot of garbage to do with this.
Has anybody ever said that to you?
Anybody important?
Well, no, not anybody of importance, but almost everyone that I've spoke to about 9-11 realizes that something else went on.
I particularly think of the woman who I interviewed who had crawled out of the Pentagon through the hole in the west wall.
She was there at the time of the explosion.
Did she see the plane?
Did she see remnants of the plane?
There was no plane.
Right.
A lot of people say that.
And she said that after she was recuperating in the hospital, that government agents in suits showed up, and she thought that they were there to question her and ask her what she knew, what she had seen.
She said, but instead, she told me that it seemed like they just kept pounding in their heads.
And, you know, it was an airplane.
It was an airplane.
Say it was an airplane.
So if you tell people something often enough, maybe they start to believe it.
I mean, one of the other things is where is the footage of the plane going into the Pentagon?
I think there is some footage of something that appears to be going into it, but it's by no means clear that that is a plane.
No.
The 16 frames that they've released did not even really show an airliner.
They don't even show, we're not sure what it shows.
There's a small blur.
I know, I think it was Bill O'Reilly who nationally said, we're going to air this thing.
We'll close off all the argument because here's the film of the plane hitting the Pentagon.
And after he viewed the film, he himself said, well, I didn't really see any plane.
Now, there were cameras, security cameras all around the Pentagon on the roof, pointing and in the parking lots.
On a hillside to the south of the Pentagon was hotels with security cameras on them.
There were 70 or 80 cameras, and we've not seen any of that film.
And yet you would know that one of those cameras might have picked up the whole thing.
So why don't we see it?
And here's the real clincher, Howard.
I'm sure in your news career, you realize that after every major air disaster, they take every piece of the airplane that they can find and they take it to a big hangar somewhere and they reassemble it to figure out exactly what had happened and try to prevent it from happening in the future.
Are the photographs of the pieces of the plane put together in a hangar somewhere?
And the only reason I can think for not releasing that stuff more widely is just simply public sentiment.
You don't want to upset people or destabilize them.
That's the only reason I can think.
Well, yeah, but that doesn't hold water because, hey, they've published them on many other air accidents, right?
They didn't seem to worry about upsetting people then.
But this thing went right to the core of the American psyche.
Exactly.
It was a psychological operation.
And here's the whole thing.
Think of how the United States has changed since September the 11th, 2001.
If you've studied mind control or any kind of mind control for that matter, step one on trying to control another person's mind is to break down their ego and break down their defense systems and make them totally dependent and open to your instructions.
And the best way, fastest way to do that is to traumatize someone.
Okay, this is why they take prisoners and they stick them in isolation cells and play loud music and let them get no sleep or whatever.
You're breaking them down.
They've done this for years in the military.
When you go in the military, first thing you do is shave off all your hair, put you in the uniform just like the guy next to you, break down your individuality so that things start rebuilding you to be a good soldier.
Well, this is what they did to the United States on 9-11.
They traumatized the entire nation and then began to restructure how we thought about the country and how the country operated.
One of the most bizarre things that you point out, and a lot of people have pointed out to be fair, about 9-11, all of that steel that came down from the Twin Towers was collected up and shipped abroad, most of it.
It's not there to be analyzed anymore because it's been taken away.
That's true.
That is blatant destruction of evidence.
And while we're on that, you might also recall that the head of the EPA said that, oh, the air quality is perfectly okay.
You can keep breathing it.
And now we know that it was really toxic with all kinds of things, not to mention the asbestos that half-filled those buildings.
And now there's been over 1,000 first responders on 9-11 that have already died, and others are sick and dying because the government told them that the air was okay.
And the question of Building 7.
You are probably the 12th, 13th, 14th person I've asked about Building 7 and how that came down.
Well, yeah, this is a 47-story steel reinforced building, concrete building, and it dropped in almost free fall speed.
In other words, if you tossed a hammer off the roof, the whole building collapsed in about the same time period as it would have taken for that hammer to fall to the ground.
And this is just impossible unless there was a demolition underway.
And of course, that one, that building didn't collapse until about 5.30 on the afternoon of 9-11.
And by the way, one of your own BBC reporters, Jane Stanley, was live in New York reporting back, and she announced that the Solomon Brothers building, which was Building 7, had collapsed.
And yet this was about 5 o'clock.
And clearly behind her on the skyline, the Building 7 is still standing.
I've seen the video.
I know what you mean.
So what I want to know is how do you explain that, Howard?
Well, maybe just a mistake.
A mistake?
How did they know the building was coming down unless it had been pre-rigged?
Okay, 9-11, who done it?
Do you think?
Well, you have to ask who benefits.
You have a President of the United States and his neocons or neoconservatives, which I maintain is nothing more than a modern remake of the word National Socialist.
And they had issued a paper a year before, in the year 2000, stating that we should have a more militant foreign policy in the Middle East.
We needed to have regime change in Iraq, and we needed to invade Afghanistan, needed to knock over some of these other Muslim countries over there, and they said, and have stationed more U.S. troops in the Middle East so we could gain control over the oil supply.
However, the authors of this report, the Rebuilding America's Defenses, stated that this would be a hard sell to the American people unless there was a, quote, catalyzing and catastrophic event like a new Pearl Harbor.
Well, that's exactly what they got a year later.
And this figure of Osama bin Laden, who after a period of years, if the story is correct, we found and we took out.
If the story is correct, you know, why, if they got in the house so easily and they shot up all these people, and why didn't they take Osama alive?
Or better yet, if they had to shoot him, just shoot him in the leg and then haul him out and then put him on a trial in front of the world to show the world that the United States is a country based on fairness and justice and then present the evidence against him.
And then if he's guilty, you can punish him.
This is the way a proper legal system is supposed to work.
Well, the argument against that went that they didn't.
Yeah, well, they said they did that because they didn't want to create some kind of shrine to a martyr, and they didn't want to draw the attention of everybody who supported him.
So if he was in a jail somewhere, of course, that would become a focus.
Let's get him out of there.
Let's kill people.
Let's protest.
But if he's under the ocean dead, there's not a whole lot you can do.
Well, you can also offer the exact opposite view, which is once he's dead, now he's a dead martyr.
And yet, if you kept him alive and put him on trial and showed him that we operate in a fair and just manner, you know, you would have probably quelled a lot of the terrorism around the world.
I want to talk about your work on ancient civilizations, which is also fascinating because you say, and there are others who also say this, that there are civilizations that significantly predate the Egyptians, and what they knew is possibly more than we know now.
Exactly.
My latest book is Our Occulted History, and I use the term occulted.
You know, don't worry, this is not a book about devil worship or zombies or other things thought to be of the occult.
I'm using the term occult in the astronomical sense that when the moon eclipses the sun, that's called an occultation.
And so it simply means hidden or masked.
So, you know, it's our hidden history.
And when you look at that, you find that the evidence for extraterrestrial intervention and presence on this planet in the far distant past has popularly come to be known as ancient astronauts.
And the evidence for that is just very, very convincing, if not overwhelming.
And so we have to ask ourselves, is there anybody still around now that's not us?
And are they trying to run the show?
And what do you think?
Well, the evidence, number one, clearly points to the fact that there is a small clique of people who hold inordinate power over this planet.
In 2011, there was a study done by the Swiss Economic Institute, and they showed that out of 43,000 international corporations, you can boil it down to 20 banks, primarily in financial institutions, that control all of the world's economy, or at least 60 to 70 percent of the entire world's economy.
And that is tremendous and centralized control.
And of course, it goes under various names.
Some people refer to them as the Illuminati, and some as the New World Order, and some as the 1%.
But the evidence is clear that there is a small group of people that are at least trying to run the world.
And when you look At some of the mess that the world's in, particularly in regards to pollution of the air and the water, the changing environment, that then you have to ask yourself, are they even us?
Because they don't seem to be taking actions that would actually benefit humanity.
If they're not us, are they alien?
Well, you know, that sounds pretty strange, but when you go back into past history, you find that every primitive culture in the world, from Asia to the Aborigines of Australia, to the ancient Egyptians,
to the Mayans, the Incas, the Sumerians, they all carry stories of these gods who came from the sky, were able to fly around and taught them basic civilization such as writing, law, farming.
Yes, even how to make beer.
God bless them.
You know, so obviously there's something going on here.
There's a big factor in the human evolution that we have not been told about.
And what about, I know you have a fascination about this giants, very, very tall people.
Well, they are continuing to find these giant bones from all around the world.
They've been found in North America and in the Middle East, in Russia.
And it's obvious that there have been other civilizations and other cultures that are certainly different from us.
And yet, all of this has been, again, you know, how come we don't know more about this?
Well, I've got newspaper clippings from back into the 1800s where the bones of these giant beings were being found all around the place.
And every time the government, in the form of the Smithsonian Institution, would come in and take it all up and then later deny that they had anything.
So are you saying these things are all behind locked doors now?
Yes, they're all hidden away in the basements of museums all around the world.
And apart from the newspaper cuttings, what evidence do you have for that?
Photographs and human narratives.
People have told about that.
In my book, Our Cultured History, I detailed a story that appeared in an Arizona newspaper about Egyptian artifacts that were found in the Grand Canyon back at the turn of the 20th century.
And they go into great detail.
And they said that it was all taken up by, again, the Smithsonian.
the Smithsonian now denies they know anything about that.
And what about the...
You aware of that?
Just vaguely.
That along with the Indian Mounds along the Mississippi Valley and the famous Rock Wall over just east of Dallas, there's just all kinds of anomalous things that have been found throughout our history and throughout the world, actually.
And they just get very short shrift with the mainstream media and with academia.
They just act like they don't want to go there.
They don't want to talk about those things.
And yet it presents us with the real puzzles about what was going on in the past.
Well, if there was a civilization or multiple civilizations here before that knew better than we do and didn't look like us and apparently had technology given to them by somebody that enabled them to fly, which they then recorded in cave paintings or carvings or whatever, then of course that challenges everything that we know at the moment.
Absolutely.
And I think that's a subtle underlying reason for the secrecy is that, you know, if we know that there's alternative civilizations out there and that have been here, then we know that there's alternative technology.
And maybe we wouldn't be settling for ever-increasing prices of petroleum.
And that would break down the entire status quo, wouldn't it?
Well, that might cause a problem for the monopolistic profits that this ruling elite are after.
What do you believe is on the moon and Mars?
Do you believe that there are the ruins, the broken down, fragmented ruins of something that's been there before?
Well, there certainly seems to be.
I've certainly seen a lot of photographs and a lot of things.
The Sidonia region there on Mars, where you have the famous face on Mars, and you've got these pyramids that seem to be in the same configuration as the pyramids on the Giza Plateau.
You know, and then we have NASA photographs where there's been some obvious retouching and blanking out of certain areas.
There is a huge monument, I guess you might call it, on Mars that sticks up almost a mile into the air, and a similar thing on the moon.
And we've got these vague pictures that NASA releases, and then they don't release any more clear pictures.
So, yeah, there's a lot of evidence that there's something going on even off this planet that we have not been publicly made aware of.
One of the things I said in the intro to this show was that you're a guy who you could ask the question about how come this guy knows so much about so much, and that's, I think, because of your questing mind with these things.
Of all the stuff you've discovered, perhaps by talking to people directly interviewing them, what is the most fascinating fact you've ever discovered in all of your research?
Now, that's one hell of a question, and I know it might be a tough one to answer.
What's the thing that made you stop for a second and say, oh, my God?
Yeah, well, I guess that would have to be the UFO and ET part of the equation because I've always been interested in UFOs, but then as a young man, the argument was there's not even any such thing.
You know, it's just a swamp gas or misinterpreted airplanes or perhaps some kind of psychosis.
You know, and As a newsman, I always thought, hey, a heretofore unknown, contagious mass psychosis.
You know, boy, there's a story.
But of course, that's not the case because today with the advent of the camcorder and the telephone camera, you know, you can go on the internet and type in UFO images and you could spend probably the rest of your life looking at pictures.
And you can't take a picture of an hallucination or a psychosis.
So UFOs are real.
They're really here.
Now, who are they?
What do they want?
That's the questions, okay?
And so I think over the years, as far as I know, I've seen some strange lights in the sky.
But I haven't seen anything that I would try to convince you, Howard, it was a UFO.
But I have spoken to too many credible people, military officers, pilots, both commercial and military, air traffic controllers, police officers.
And after a while, and these people tell you some of the strange experiences they've had, you can't help but come to the understanding that there's something going on that we're not being told about and we don't talk about readily.
But it's nevertheless, it's here and it's real.
And it's time that we start trying to figure out what is the alien agenda, which just happened to be the name of my book on UFOs, Alien Agenda.
And it has now become, I'm told, the top-selling nonfiction book on UFOs in the world.
Well, that's the title.
What do you think the agenda is?
Domination, control, nurturing?
Well, what I can tell you for certain that I believe it's not is conquering the earth, blowing up our cities, you know, taking us prisoner.
Because they'd have done that by now, wouldn't they?
Of course.
You know, since the historical record shows that they've been around throughout man's history, I mean, just think back to Ezekiel and the fiery wheel flying through the air.
Hello.
You know, then obviously if their intention was to conquer us or whatever, they could have done that a long time ago, and certainly before we developed modern weaponry, space platforms and laser weapons.
And so I don't think that they want to come conquer us, as in the movie Independence Day.
Personally, I think that there are several factions, several races out there who are interacting with the Earth in some way, but I think there is a universal understanding, if not a law, perhaps not a law in the sense that we think of a law, you know, with codified and then enforcement, et cetera, et cetera.
But I think there is kind of a universal understanding of races who have managed to get off of their planets that it is not right or proper to overtly interfere with the natural evolution of a species, particularly an intelligent species.
And so I think this is why they pretty much try to stay out of our view and kind of keep in the wing, so to speak.
But I think occasionally they probably get pretty fed up with us.
And I think that they got really concerned back in 1945 when the United States set off the first atomic bomb at Alamogordo, New Mexico, because I think that sent energy ripples out through the universe.
And I think somewhere out there, somebody said, oh my God, the kids have found the matches.
And I think since then we've had an upturn in visitations with these other peoples wanting to know exactly what we're doing.
And I think they saw that there was a very real possibility that we'd blow ourselves up in some kind of Armageddon.
And so I think that they may have taken steps to try to provide us with technology and kind of subtly kick us up the evolutionary ladders so that we don't wipe our whole species out before we get to the space-faring stage.
Well, let's hope we don't do that.
It's almost like a kid in the schoolyard who's playing with a sharp object.
You've got to take the sharp object off the kid or distract him or her in some way so they don't hurt themselves.
Exactly.
And this is why we have recorded incidences back in the 60s, 70s of UFOs hovering over missile installations and messing with their launch codes.
Now, some people took that to be the behavior of an enemy.
You know, they're messing with our defense systems.
But again, if you back off and look at it, nobody got hurt.
Nothing blew up.
And they were just scrambling the launch codes.
And perhaps they were doing us a favor and preventing us from launching some kind of nuclear strike and obliterating ourselves.
Which, you know, in those Cold War years, and even now, it's amazing we haven't done yet.
And I'm delighted that we haven't.
Jim Mars, I want to talk with you again.
Thank you so much for making time for me.
If people want to know more about you, where do they go?
Where's the one-stop shop?
Well, I guess my website, which oddly enough is jimmars.com.
That's J-I-M-M-A-R-R-S dot com.
You can check out all my books.
You can check out articles that I post that I think are interesting and that you might not find in the mainstream media.
And so you can kind of keep up with everything that's going on by looking in at jimmars.com.
And of course, you can get my books on Amazon or any bookstore.
And what's first on your agenda for 2014?
2014, I'm starting in on a new project and I'm backing off even further and looking at the various cultures around the world and seeing what we can do to try to make this place a little bit better for everyone.
Well, I wish you luck with that because we certainly need all the help we can get.
Jim Mars, a delight to talk with you again.
Let's do it in the future and thank you so much for coming on.
Well, don't be a stranger.
Just come holler back at me.
We'll talk some more.
A welcome return visit from Jim Mars.
And if you want to know more about Jim, go to my website, triple w.theunexplained.tv, www.theunexplained.tv, and there we'll leave a link to Jim's website, jimmars.com, and you can go straight through from my website.
Thank you very much to Adam Cornwell at Creative Hotspot in Liverpool for making the website, getting the shows out to you, and being a thoroughly top guy.
Couldn't do any of this work without Adam.
Keep your feedback coming.
Keep your donations coming.
I have more guests to thought for the back end of 2013, the last month that we're looking down the barrel of right now.
I've got some good ideas for that and some big plans for 2014.
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So thank you very, very much.
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And thank you very much for being there for me.
My name is Howard Hughes.
This has been The Unexplained and I will return to you soon.
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