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Aug. 14, 2013 - The Unexplained - Howard Hughes
36:24
Edition 121 - Paul Hellyer
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Across the UK, across continental North America, and around the world on the internet, by webcast and by podcast, my name is Howard Hughes, and this is The Unexplained.
Thank you very much for your good thoughts and your feedback to the show.
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And thank you to you for everything that you've said about the show.
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We just do this show.
And that, I think, is digital democracy.
And yes, I have said that before.
This time, we're going to have a very special show.
It is a little bit like that Beatles album cover now and then.
You know, the one where there's a photograph of the Beatles as they were at the beginning of their career and then much later in their career.
This is a return visit to a very important man, Paul Hellier.
Now, if you're listening to this show, you may well know who he is.
He's a former Defense Minister of Canada who believes that UFOs are real.
And he came out in 2005 and said so.
He'd always believed that there might be something in it, but he became more and more convinced.
And as we speak now, he is even more convinced.
Now, I first caught up with Paul just months after he'd made that famous address.
In fact, I think it was only within four weeks or so after he'd made his famous speech in 2005.
And I put him on national radio.
And we're going to hear some of that conversation now.
And then we'll catch up with Paul in Toronto, Canada as he is in 2013.
Paul is 90 years of age.
When I spoke to him first, he would have been, what, 82.
And he believes that the truth is out there, and it has to be told.
But very importantly, unlike a lot of campaigners, this man, of course, has connections at the very highest level.
So he has a reason for saying this.
So I'm very excited about being able to connect with Paul Hellier again.
I think that what he's saying is important.
Whether you believe it, whether you go along with it, is a matter for you.
I've always said with this show, we lay the information out there and you decide.
And please let me have your feedback about it.
But I think that Paul Hellia has a message that people need to at least consider.
All right.
Let's hear Paul as he was on my national radio show in 2005.
And this was straight off the back of his big speech where he said that he believed that as far as he was concerned, UFOs may well be real.
This is Paul in 2005.
The day I made my speech in September, President Bush announced that the Americans were going back to the moon.
Well, as soon as I heard that, I said, they're going to establish a defense base on the moon.
This is something that has been in the works for a long while.
Colonel Torso has a whole chapter on it in his book called The Moon Base.
And his boss, General Arthur Trudeau, drew up the precise plans for what they had to have on the moon to establish a base there.
And they apparently tried to get succeeding generations of politicians to go ahead with it, to authorize it, but without success, and rightly so in my opinion.
But now it appears that President Bush has succumbed and that they're going to make a move in that direction to get what a military person would call the high ground.
But I think it's not just the high ground, it's a very dangerous idea.
But Paul Hellia, beyond the book that you read that was obviously very compelling for you, and you saw a television program that also was compelling for you, and the words of an unnamed American military man, what proof do we have of any of this?
Why do we know this is so?
There are all kinds of documents and there are many people of good repute who have come who have gone published on that.
And they've clearly swayed you and a man in your position, you have a status in Canada.
It must have been a massive leap of faith for you to actually go out there and do this because people who do what you're doing tend to put themselves outside the establishment and they open themselves up for a lot of criticism, don't they?
That is true, and it's only because I thought it was so important that I did it.
But for example, President Clinton's former White House Chief of Staff, John Podesta, has done the same thing.
And he has tried to persuade members of Congress to start an inquiry into the matter.
So far, without success, that's one of the reasons that we're trying to get the defense committee here in our Senate to start in the hope that that would have some influence on the Americans.
And are you confident that although America might be able to, or the government behind the government might be able to take steps to stop anything like that happening south of your border, that within Canada, the freedom is there to be able to go ahead and do this and investigate it and say the things that you believe need to be said?
Yes, I think we have more freedom here.
I'm not sure that it would have any ultimate influence, but it might.
It would certainly be a temptation to the mainline press to pay more attention.
There's an American by the name of Dr. Stephen Greer who claims to have over 400 government intelligence, military, and corporate whistleblowers who are ready to testify.
If we believe a lot of the fiction that we've read and a certain amount of the fact that we know, people who say some of the things that you've said, especially if they are fairly prominent, put themselves at a certain amount of risk.
Do you have any fear in saying these things, Paul?
Oh, I guess not a lot.
But I know there's some risk involved.
But at my age, it's probably not as important for me as it would be for somebody who was younger.
Paul Hellier, as he divulged to me back in 2005 on my national radio show across the UK and Europe.
Let's see how things have changed.
If they have with Paul Hellier, what new information he may have to give us.
Let's cross now to his office in Toronto, Canada.
Hope this connection works.
Paul Hellier, thank you very much for returning to the unexplained.
And I know it's slightly a couple of days belated, but happy birthday.
How was that 90th birthday of yours?
Well, thank you very much.
It was what several People have called a blast.
It was probably the best party I've been to in my adult life.
And we had 155 people for dinner at a local restaurant.
And we had a band that went around from table to table and played people's favorites.
And one of Canada's three tenors came in and did two or three pieces for us.
And then instead of making a speech at the end, I cut it down to about three or four minutes and then sang my life story to the tune of some of my favorite things, sort of a takeoff on Julie Andrews.
And did you mention UFOs in that song, Paul?
Pardon me?
Did you mention UFOs in that song?
Well, indirectly.
But we had a great time, and everybody really, really loved it.
And so this is once in a lifetime for me.
And I'm glad to have it and glad to have it over.
Now, one thing about getting to this wonderful age that you've reached, and you sound fantastic, Paul, you sound exactly as you did when we last spoke, which was nearly a decade ago.
Do you realize that?
One of the great things about it is that you have to be less concerned about what people think about you and your views.
So I wonder if perhaps your views, which were already fairly forthright in a very nice Canadian way when we last spoke, have changed at all?
Are you more determined to press the cause of UFOs being real?
Well, I guess the answer is I'm afraid so.
I'm more determined than ever, and I'm going to spend my next few days writing about it and explaining why it's all true and why people should pay attention.
I'm really going to talk about the three most important subjects in the world today, which are first global warming, that's the most important, and then the massive change in the global banking and financial system, which is the most urgent, and then the extraterrestrial presence and technology, which is the third of the three most important issues.
And interestingly enough, our G20 leaders aren't doing anything about any of the three.
Are you surprised by that, Paul?
Well, I'm disappointed.
I mean, what do we have leaders for if they don't pay any attention to the three most important subjects going on in the world today?
I'd love to talk with you more about subject two, but I know that our time is strictly limited.
So let's stick to subject three.
Now, when we last talked on national radio in the UK eight years ago, I'm going to quote you here.
You said many people of good repute who have come forward with their information.
Now, in those eight years, have there been, to your knowledge, as far as you're aware, any more people of good repute who have come forward and told what they know?
Oh, absolutely.
In May, I appeared as a witness at what was called the Citizens Disclosure Hearing in Washington in May.
It lasted for five days, started on Monday morning and went right through until Friday at dinner time.
It was set up to emulate the congressional hearing.
And we had six former Congresspeople there, or five Congress ladies and gentlemen, and one ex-senator.
And they listened and acted as if they were a congressional committee.
And we gave witness under oath.
And there were 40 of us.
And a lot of new ones for the first time went public.
So this was a duly sanctioned congressional committee in all but name, really.
Exactly.
And it was a marvelous experience.
And it might interest your listeners to know that on the first day, they were all skeptics.
And two or three of them were what I would call quite vociferous skeptics.
And by the time we finished, six o'clock on Friday night, they were all believers, every single one of them.
It took one of them until the last day, and maybe until I had spoken, to come around, but they all came around.
And those that weren't delimited by their legal restrictions have drafted a resolution to the United Nations to have this made a subject on their agenda and to try to get hearings and really demand disclosure on a worldwide scale.
Of course, that's been done a lot by many, many people.
You mentioned in our last conversation people like Dr. Stephen Greer, and I've met many people as well, like Stanton Friedman and many, many others.
There have been calls for this at every level for many, many years.
What do you think going forward is going to be different?
What do you think will give this the momentum and top spin that it needs?
Well, I wish that this hearing would have some impact.
In fact, it has had some impact because the senator has appeared publicly since to state his view that UFOs are real.
And of course, at this stage, to say that UFOs are real is really kindergarten stuff because that was what people were talking about eight years ago.
But what they're talking about now is the number of species and their agendas and who is working with whom and who is good and who is bad and other more sophisticated things.
And was any solid evidence about those things presented at these hearings?
Well, there was a lot of solid evidence.
I would say it was all solid evidence because it was all taken under oath, just as if it had been before Congress.
And there were fascinating things.
The well-known Bentwaters Forrest case was really exhaustively pursued.
That's the famous Rendlesham Forrest case from the U.K. Right.
And so thoroughly that it had a real impact on the panel, as it were.
And one of the most interesting things that was said from my point of view was the U.S. retired U.S. Air Force colonel who said that his job when he was in the Air Force was when there was a sighting of a UFO and the Air Force was asked what it was, was to reply, swamp gas.
Deary me.
Yeah, and this was a real tough former colonel, no nonsense.
And here he is saying, my job, I was paid to tell the public that UFOs were swamp gas.
And why, Paul, do you think that he in particular, I don't know this man's name, but why was he coming out now to say that?
Why hadn't he said this before now, before hearings?
Because he hasn't been retired that long, I guess.
Right.
And as you know, the oath is pretty strict.
And breaking the oath is considered quite a serious crime in the United States.
And not only breaking the oath, but there's always the risk that everybody who gets involved in anything like this takes, and that is the risk of ridicule not being believed, disinformation, and all the rest of it.
Oh, yeah, this is the personal side of it.
And even the panel were concerned about that because there were a lot of people who said, you know, what are you doing, going and being a member of this panel, and so on.
And so they took a considerable risk, I would say, personally to come.
It was revealed, of course, that they were compensated fairly for being there.
But still, it's not something that someone would do lightly.
They must have agreed that it was worth doing and worth the investment of their time.
And so there's still a penalty, but the scene has changed a lot in the eight years.
When my first two public appearances, or two or three, well, maybe not the first one, but a couple of the early ones, the debunkers sent a retired U.S. colonel to debunk everything I said.
And at the beginning, the first one, he in effect said that UFOs were just a myth, that they were not real, and so on.
And so this kind of blatant, you know, well, lies, really, nonsense, was put on the record by him as if it were true.
But after a couple of times, he was laughed at so much for saying that because the audience was nearly all privy.
And they knew better, many from personal experience, and so they would say, you know, that's ridiculous.
So he changed his tune.
And his new line later on was, well, UFOs are real, but the United States government is not really interested in them.
Well, that's a pretty big step, isn't it?
Yeah, it's a big step, but it's an even bigger lie.
So, okay, what you're saying is that UFOs are real, and the U.S. government is interested in them, which I think a lot of us knew, but here comes a little bit of proof, maybe.
That is the biggest understatement you're going to have in the program today.
And do you surmise that, Paul?
Or do you know from experience that?
Well, I know from people I have talked to whose witness I trust implicitly that it was just as was said in a top-secret memo from a former member of a department that I headed in the Canadian government,
the Transport Department, a top-secret memo in 1950, I think it was, where he said that his information, which he had confirmed through official United States channels, was that UFOs were real,
that the classification was higher than that for an H-bomb, so getting information about it was almost impossible because it was classified on a need-to-know basis and very, very few people were in the loop, as it were, that the United States government took the matter very seriously, quote unquote.
And fourth, that Dr. Vannevar Bush was heading a small panel of scientists to try and determine the method of propulsion and other facts about the technology involved in interplanetary travel.
And this was all on the record 1950, which is about 60 years ago, a little over.
And it's been that way ever since.
The United States government and private industry together, in the meantime, and their operations, the black operations, have spent trillions of dollars.
And according to Ben Rich, the late former head of the Lockheed Skunk Works, they now have the technology to, quote, take E.T. home, end of quote.
What does that mean?
What does it mean?
Well, they have replicated the UFOs, and they have ones that, in my opinion, may not be as good as the originals yet, but are good enough to fool you.
If you saw one overhead, you probably wouldn't know whether it came from somewhere else or whether it was from the United States Air Force.
One of theirs or one or ours.
As far as you know, do only the Americans have this?
Or do other nations, perhaps the Russians, maybe the Chinese, possibly the Indians, do they have some of this as well?
I don't know how far along the others are.
I know the Russians have been deeply involved.
And I think one of the reasons for the end of the Cold War was that the United States showed them a lot of the things that they had developed and were so far ahead.
And it would have taken so much money, really, on the part of the Russians to catch up that they just decided there was No sense in pursuing the Cold War.
So they were basically told, get in with the program or pay the price, take the consequences.
Say again?
They were basically told, get aboard the program or take the consequences.
Something like that.
Heaven only knows exactly what it was, but I think there was quite a lot of consultation and exchange of information.
And there are others.
The United Kingdom is in on it too.
And so just how much each country knows, I don't know.
I have no idea.
And I would say that there are very, very few people who do know.
But there are some.
And I think that's one of the interesting points, too, is that at the beginning, back at the time when Dr. Bush started his little group, he was a member of the original Majestic 12, as it was later disclosed,
the group in charge of what to do with the technology and the information, and who actually set the rules on disclosure by authorizing debunking and ridicule and other means in one of their papers.
That from there, it has probably, and this I cannot say for sure, but I have been told that now the information is in the hands of an international board of directors of 36.
And that would include some people from the United Kingdom and Germany and other countries.
And so it's a very big issue.
And even though you don't want to talk about monetary reform, it's really the control of the disclosure is really in the hands of the apex of what I call the cabal in my latest book, which is entitled Light at the End of the Tunnel, a survival plan for the human species.
And if you haven't seen it, you should maybe get a copy and read the primer that I put in there about how I came to get involved in this UFO business and some early facts and conclusions that I had come to.
Now, I must say that if I were writing that book today, probably my total knowledge in the area would be five or ten times greater than it was four years ago.
I've learned more in this last year, probably, than in the entire eight years since I first went public.
And what do you think is the most important thing you've learned in this last year, Paul?
Well, I guess the most important thing that I've learned is related to global warming, and that is that this cabal has developed, with the aid of the extraterrestrials, zero-point energy, which could be used to save the world from global warming.
You can put enough energy in a little box to power a car or a truck, an airplane, your house, or whatever.
And in my opinion, if we don't do that in the next seven or eight years, it's going to be damage control from there on in.
It's going to cost us trillions just trying to get it.
So, Paul, let's make it absolutely clear.
And I have a feeling I know why this is, but you tell me.
Why would these 36 people sit on this important information, presumably for big business's sake?
Why would they sit there?
Yeah, why would they sit on that information?
Oh, because they own the oil business, too.
Right.
So it's all about money.
It's all about money and power.
But don't forget power.
Because they have more power than the United States government.
And what kind of confirmation and at what kind of level have you had of this?
Because this is pretty explosive stuff.
Well, it is.
It's been pretty well documented.
There's one book that I recommend if you haven't read it, and that's The Truth About the Bilderbergers.
Oh, yes.
By Daniel, I think it's Escuman.
I forget his last name exactly.
So you go along with what the likes of Alex Jones and David Ike and those people who are popularly called conspiracy theorists.
You go along with what they say.
They're probably a little more, what, radical than I am in their language and so on.
But there is no doubt, and I said this at the public hearing in May in Washington, that we had come to the conclusion, or the senator had come to the conclusion, that there was a military junta, which in fact the President of the United States doesn't control.
And in my speech at the end, I said, well, it's much broader than that, Senator.
It starts at the top with the apex of the global financial system, the bankers, and goes down from there and includes members of various intelligence agencies and members of various armed forces and goes right down to the black operations,
which have been largely financed or partly financed by private enterprise and partly by government.
And it would be very interesting and would be an important part of the disclosure process to find out who owns what in the technological area and how they got their hands on the exclusive ownership and all of that sort of thing going forward.
So, presumably, if we go back to that period, Paul, sorry to interrupt, but these people have been doing deals with extraterrestrials for a very, very long time.
That's true.
And what kind of deals do you think they're doing?
What could be for the EETs?
I know what's in it for us, but what's in it for the ETs?
Well, it depends, I guess, on which ETs you're talking about.
And I'm going to be careful what I say on this area at the moment, because some that I might have thought were totally friendly a few months ago, I might have some doubts about today.
Why would that be?
Well, simply because of some events that have taken place that disturbed me a little bit, and the relationship they have with the junta and the cabal.
I mean, have you had direct experience of this?
Have you had contact with these ETs, or do you know somebody who has?
I know people who have been involved, and I've heard witnesses.
One of them was somebody who told a lot about the truth and then had his life suddenly snuffed out as a result.
So it's pretty sensitive stuff, but there's a lot going on in the world, and it should come out, and most of it, at least, should come out, and the sooner the better.
And if the forces behind all of this are so powerful, the forces both here on Earth and outside Earth are so powerful that they can snuff a life out.
And I did ask you this eight years ago, do you not feel fear for yourself that here you are speaking these things, speaking your truth?
But you could be putting yourself at a certain amount of risk.
Well, that's, I guess, something one has to think about, isn't it?
But at the same time, and especially at my age, I think the truth is important in what happens to me.
It's more important because there are whole areas of the world whose future is very much at risk at the moment.
I mean, the financial thing that you don't want me to talk about, the whole European civilization is being systematically destroyed by the banking and monetary authorities.
Which is all tied up with this cabal of 36 people.
Exactly.
It's all part of the same big ball of wax.
And if the economy as we know it, and a lot of people say that the big crash hasn't happened yet, but if it all comes crashing round our ears, to whose advantage is that?
Well, the people who would engineer it.
Who would be?
Those 36 people?
Yeah, some of them more than others.
That's staggering.
And the E.T.'s involvement, they would get some dividend out of that, too?
I think there's some kind of a deal that would come into play later along the line, yes.
What about your government colleagues, Paul, the people you've known down the years, the politicians both of the era where you served in government and more recently?
What do they say to you about the things that you come out with?
They don't say anything.
I guess one reason is they don't know anything.
Do you think some of them think perhaps that you're not entirely sort of saying, saying these things?
Do you get that kind of thing?
I think one or two of them might have had that notion somewhere along the line.
But then, on the other hand, the ones that have known me for a long while know that I used to be considered pretty conservative.
And I don't say things that I don't believe or believe could stand the test of time.
And of course, you don't get to serve in office at the level that you served in unless you're pretty level-headed, I would have thought.
Yes, I think so.
So here we have this situation, Paul.
You are much more convinced of it all, and you're much more fired up about it than you were even eight years ago from the sound of it.
There's absolutely no doubt that UFOs exist.
There's a top-secret paper that NATO did that showed that at least four species have been coming to this planet for thousands of years.
There are many species.
That's one you can't put a number on because it keeps increasing every time I see something.
But the last thing I saw was the 20.
I have seen pieces of paper that used numbers bigger than that, but I hesitate to use them because I haven't had a chance to check them out.
And why have these, if there are 20 species, if there are more, why haven't they come and directly presented themselves to us ordinary people?
Why haven't they cut out the middleman and taken power themselves?
Well, I think they had a pact or an agreement not to interfere directly.
And some of them now are, because of lack of disclosure, are acting through individuals here on earth, some of my friends, and probably with me as well.
Some of them want disclosure.
Yeah.
Why would they want disclosure, do you think?
Well, so that then they could establish some kind of normal relationship with us.
Whether that's true of all of them or not, I don't know.
But as far as the benign ones, we have much to learn from them.
You know, there's a tremendous area in, for example, medicine where there are still light years ahead of us.
And, of course, going back to the cabal, they've got a lot of money invested in pharmaceuticals.
And so they're not too anxious to have all of the truth get out into the public domain.
Again, is that something that you've read, or is it something that you know directly or have been told by those who know?
Well, I know specifically one person whose leg was fixed overnight when he was taken aboard a spaceship.
And the doctors that he was dealing with said that he'd be laid up for three weeks minimum and that they couldn't guarantee that he was going to be okay at the end of that period.
And you know, there are lots of skeptics out there, and they love to slough this stuff off, don't they?
They would say, where's the proof?
Where's the evidence?
Well, this guy is still walking around making speeches, so I could give him his name.
I'd love to talk to him.
And you can look him up and talk to him, and he can give you quite a story.
I'd love to hear it, Paul.
If you could do that, I would love to hear it.
He's somebody who has been abducted more times than most people.
And so he'd be a good one for you to get in touch with.
One thing you were very concerned about eight years ago, and I know our time is short, but I'd like to talk about this briefly if we could.
You were very concerned eight years ago about the then president's plans for a defense base on the moon.
Yeah, well, that may be old hat and how.
What I'm really concerned about now is weapons that are being installed in space.
And I'm working with Carol Rosen to try and get a treaty that would ban the weaponization of space.
I suspect we may be a little late, but we've still got to do our best and try and do it.
This harks back to a guest I had on my show about a year ago who's been using, very legal in this country, a grade of night vision viewing gear to look into the sky at night.
It's a grade three or whatever they call it.
And he uses these things to look into the UK and tells me that he sees dogfights and all sorts of stuff going on way above the planet that you can't see with the naked eye late at night.
Do you believe that?
I don't disbelieve it.
I just don't know.
And as a human race, Paul, not only Canada, which has always struck me as being a decent, honest, and free country compared with many other nations of this world, but as human beings generally on this planet, what are we to do collectively?
Bearing in mind that we don't have the power?
Well, demand the truth from our leaders and demand some action and that they can attack these three problems that I mentioned at the outset and do it forthwith and without any further delay.
But the problem is that people are being bought off with reality TV and all the other blandishments of modern society.
Most people just don't care, do they?
Say again.
I said most people are being bored off these days by reality TV, things that you can possess, stuff that you can do.
There's too much fun to be had to be getting involved in these things.
They're spending a lot of money to divert people from the problems that they should be facing.
I'm sorry I'm going to have to go, but that's all the time I've got today, as you know.
All right, Paul.
In 60 seconds, then tell me what is the next thing you're going to do to further your case?
Well, I'm writing a 100-page book, or hope to, which will address some of the problems related to these three big problems.
And you hope to be talking about all of this when you're 100.
You're not going to give up and retire?
I'm not really looking forward to that.
I just want to get the truth out there if there's any chance.
Paul Hellier, listen, I know that you've got to go now to a dinner for your 90th birthday.
I hope it's a wonderful one, and I also hope that we can speak again soon.
Thank you for making time for me, Paul Hellier.
Not at all.
It was a pleasure.
Thank you, Paul.
Bye-bye.
Well, there it is.
I think maybe one of our most thought-provoking shows because of who we've just been talking with.
Paul Hellier, a man who was in government in Canada, who says that there are truths that we need to wake up to, and there are truths we need to make the politicians address.
What do you think about that?
Give me your feedback.
W.theunexplained.tv is my website.
You can send me an email from there with any thoughts about this show, if you want to take it further, or indeed if you'd like to make a donation to the show and you know those donations are vital.theunexplained.tv.
Thank you to Adam Cornwell at Creative Hotspot in Liverpool, the man who designed that website and who gets the show out to you.
And above all, thank you to you for your support, which has been so important to me and for all the nice things you've said and for giving me advice about the show, telling me when you've liked a thing or a guest and when you haven't.
It's all really important, so please keep those connections coming at www.theunexplained.tv.
I'm working very hard on some new shows for the autumn and into the winter.
More details on those coming soon.
But thank you very much for everything that you've done for me.
Please return to The Unexplained.
I will be back soon with another edition.
So please watch this space.
My name is Howard Hughes.
This is The Unexplained.
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