The Unexplained - Howard Hughes - Edition 113 - Howard On Air At Radio City 96.7, Liverpool

May 27, 2013 - The Unexplained - Howard Hughes

01:02:45

Edition 113 - Howard On Air At Radio City 96.7, Liverpool

This show features two Unexplained interviews aired during Howard’s recent week filling infor the legendary Pete Price at Radio City 96.7 and City Talk 105.9 Guests are Richard C Hoagland andunusualist David H Boyle.

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	Across the UK, across continental North America, and around the world on the internet, by webcast and by podcast, my name is Howard Hughes, and this is The Unexplained.
	Thank you very much for keeping the faith with the show and for the stream of emails that you've sent me, both feedback for past shows and also your good thoughts about the death of my dear father, which happened a month ago now, and which we're beginning to adjust to, my sister and I, but you never completely, can you, accept or adjust to these things, I don't think.
	It takes time, and this last week or so I've been staying in my dad's house while I've been working at Radio City in Liverpool, filling in for the legendary Pete Price on his late-night phone-in show.
	Of course, in the house, every corner has a memory, and there are photographs everywhere.
	But I realized during that week that my father will always be in my heart, and there'll always be a part of me that is him.
	So in that sense, he's never going to leave us.
	And the same goes for my dear mum.
	And we all have to face these things in our lives, as many of you have said in your many, many emails.
	And like I say, I'm really, really grateful.
	You helped to get me through this period, which has not been easy.
	But we're continuing with the work now.
	And this last week I was up at Radio City, like I say, and a couple of guests I had on, I thought I'd let you hear.
	Richard Hoagland came on very kindly to give us an update on his space work.
	I was introducing Richard to a lot of listeners in the north of England who will not have heard him.
	So some of the stuff is stuff that you may have heard before, but it's always good to get Richard on.
	Also a guest you may not be familiar with, but this guy is pretty popular around the world, has a big following.
	He's a British guy who is a kind of unusualist, come paranormalist, come thinker, come everything.
	Very, very deep thinking man.
	His name is David H. Boyle, and we'll have him on as well.
	I'll give you a little extract from the interview, or the conversation, rather.
	We spent about an hour and a half talking, and we took calls from listeners, so you might hear some of them during the extract I'll put on here.
	So two items from my show at Radio City.
	We'll be back to a regular unexplained next time round.
	David Icke.
	I mentioned that David Icke would be on this month.
	David's been very busy.
	Emailed me the other day just to say he'd like to do it in July now, which is fine.
	David is a very occupied guy at the moment, so that's okay.
	In the news here, of course, everything dominated by the brutal murder, the hacking to death on a London street of a young soldier.
	And there are calls for calm and clear thinking through all of this.
	And we reflected that on the phone in that I did.
	I spoke to somebody from the Royal United Services Institute, and we had some reaction from Muslim people, of course.
	99.9 recurring percent of Muslim people are decent, law-abiding citizens of whatever country they're in, including the United Kingdom.
	They bring their families up well.
	They respect decent values.
	And they are just as appalled as the rest of us about what happened to Lee Rigby, who died in a most horrific way.
	And modern media being what it is, of course, pictures were put on television of that because somebody inevitably had a camera phone.
	So the suspect, one of the suspects in this case, was able to have his say.
	But a very disturbing story, the kind of thing you would think would never happen.
	We tend to think of terrorism as bombs and attacks of that nature.
	This is something completely new for us and deeply disturbing.
	There was a book of condolence opened in the centre of Liverpool on Saturday morning.
	I went in at that time to sign it and there was a long queue of people and Lee Rigby was not from Liverpool, but people feel so deeply that they were willing to wait in the sunshine for a long period to be able to make their mark and sign their names for his poor, traumatised family.
	They are the people that I think about.
	The human tragedy of all of this is almost unbearable for those of us who are standing by and watching it, but for them, I can't imagine what it's like.
	It must be terrible.
	And my thoughts, and I'm sure yours too, are with them.
	Okay, reaction to the last show, Kevin Goodman talking about UFOs over Wiltshire.
	Some of you liked him.
	Some of you didn't.
	One comment that was made by one listener was like it was listening to somebody who'd been going train spotting for years.
	Well, I'm not sure whether that was entirely fair.
	What you got was a real-life story of a real-life person who's given a big slice of his life to following UFO cases in an area where there have been a lot.
	And I think for that reason, the show was valid.
	You know, not everybody who comes on the unexplained is going to be an internationally renowned expert or a previous guest on a big American talk show or something.
	We like to include from time to time people who are smaller, don't have the same kind of profile.
	But I understand what you were saying.
	Chris Putnam about Exo-Vaticana continued to get a lot of response.
	Some people telling me that they thought that what we were getting from him was an anti-Catholic rant.
	Well, I think some of what he said could be construed as being anti-Catholic.
	I'm not sure whether it was a rant.
	But I did challenge him on his views, and we have talked about perhaps getting him back on.
	But I completely understand the strong feelings that that show evoked.
	Some of you were really interested by it.
	Some of you were very annoyed by it.
	And that is, I suppose, in the nature of talk radio in a way.
	That not everybody's going to please everybody all of the time.
	And of course, my thoughts and feelings can't come into it.
	I've got to try and be neutral because that's the way that I've been trained.
	I know a lot of American talk show hosts take a stand about things and some things you have to take a stand about, like brutal murder or terrorism or appalling things that happen.
	And other things you have to try and be the Inquisitor.
	That is what I endeavor to do.
	We've got some good shows coming up.
	David Icke, like I say, busy until July, he will be on.
	Nick Red Fern coming up, various others.
	And we're going to get into some new territory.
	Plus, of course, always very grateful to get your feedback on the shows and your guest suggestions so I can work my way through those.
	So good to be back here.
	This time round, two of the guests from my week filling in for Pete Price at Radio City 96.7 and City Talk 105.9 across Liverpool and the north of England.
	Richard C. Hoagland came on, updating us on his current work and also introducing himself to some of the listeners mightn't have heard him before, a new audience.
	And also David H. Boyle, the unusualist and thinker.
	So let's hear, first of all, from my City Talk Radio City show over this last week, Richard C. Hoagland.
	He worked for NASA and he's been at the cutting edge of space research for many, many years.
	I've known him for 15 of those years and it's been a privilege and a pleasure.
	And Richard C. Hoagland, I'm delighted to have you on, Dick.
	Howard, is it 15 years?
	It's 1998, and if it's 2013, which sometimes I doubt, that's 15 years.
	That's amazing.
	Gosh, and I've actually been to Liverpool.
	You have been to Liverpool, and I was just telling the local audience here that you came over in 2008 or 9, 2009, wasn't it, for a conference here.
	Yeah.
	And I think I was instrumental in getting you here, I think.
	And we couldn't get into the Beatles Museum.
	What?
	They closed the damn thing at 5 o'clock.
	Hey, listen, you know what you've got to do?
	Thousands of miles to see the Beatles, and they wouldn't let us in.
	Well, listen, I'll tell you what, on behalf of Liverpool, come back and we'll make that happen for you, okay?
	This radio station is at the heart of this city, and we make things happen, and that's not just radio talk.
	That's the truth.
	You know, apropos of your last caller in your last segment, the guy who's complaining about the bankers appropriately, and then you asked the question, well, what are you doing?
	And the discussion was, well, basically, you don't have any power, so the only thing you can do is kind of call up and rant.
	Actually, that's not quite the case.
	There is a radio network over here, Premier, and there was a very sterling guy, personality named Art Bell.
	My hero.
	And one of your other heroes, yes, who I've been on with countless years, you know, in past years.
	And we were coming up to the first mission to Mars in 1998 that NASA had mounted an unmanned mission, a robotic mission, since the Viking missions had photographed this bizarre formation on Mars called the Sidonia Formation or the classic face on Mars, which, as if some of you know my work, you know that I've been quite involved with over the last more than 15 years.
	Well, if you look on the net, and I know it's a big simplification, but if you go on the net, type your name in, you know, there are lots of people who refer to you as the face on Mars man.
	Yeah, well, one can always get typecast.
	Anyway, so we know we're coming up on this mission, and the curious thing is that the principal investigator, the head scientist, whose name is Mike Malin, and he's at the University of Arizona, I'm sorry, Arizona State University, he is declaiming emphatically that the face on Mars in Sidonia is not a target for any new imaging because it's too difficult, too impossible.
	And of course, a bunch of us realized this was a political statement, that NASA had no interest in doing anything further because their cover-up of what was really there would unravel.
	So what I did, I mounted a national campaign using Art Show with Art's approval, and I called for as many people to fax NASA.
	I got NASA's inside headquarters fax machine of the administrator, and we inundated overnight his fax machine.
	So when the secretaries came in the next morning, they couldn't get in the office because all the paper piled over the floor of all the faxes that have been sent from thousands upon thousands of people.
	Do you know, Howard, that we politically got that mission prioritized so they did take pictures, terrible pictures, but take new pictures of Sidonia?
	But did that do you any favor?
	Oh, right, that's people power, and it worked.
	But did that do you any favors?
	Because if you look at what happened later, there was an awful lot of, you would call it disinformation that said, actually, the face on Mars is just like one of those visual tricks.
	And you look at it, and it looks like a great big giant face or monument that somebody built and put on Mars.
	Yeah, of course.
	But it's an optical illusion.
	And those images that were later released, that's what they sort of showed.
	Well, to a lot of people.
	But it's not an illusion.
	It's real.
	And all the two bestsellers I've written and the countless television shows and radio I've done and the speeches and conferences that I've attended and the 50-some thousand Facebook fans and friends I've got.
	I mean, you can create political movements that are meaningful to people provided you involve people in actually getting something done.
	So to the guy who called in about the bankers, what he needs to do is direct his attention to specific banks and specific bankers and specifically what they have done wrong in a public effort to get things changed.
	Even in non-democratic societies we now know, places like Nazi Germany or Stalin's Soviet Union, if enough people make up their mind that something is not going to happen a certain way, it can be changed and history proves it.
	It just takes a tremendous toll on those that will not give up.
	And I suppose that the one thing that would stand up for that is that things like the fall of the Berlin Wall happened.
	People thought something like that would never happen.
	There would always be a communist, capitalist, east-west divide.
	But the Berlin Wall did fall.
	Germany was reunited.
	Those things do happen because it was the power of the people in the end.
	Exactly.
	But something like this, but you're shadow boxing here with it.
	I don't want to get sidetracked into the bankers, but you're shadow boxing here because half the time, if there are people out there doing damage to the economy, which there were, you don't know who they are.
	So you're fighting an enemy that you can't see.
	How can you target an enemy that's invisible?
	Well, they're not totally invisible.
	You just have to, and with the internet, you know, if we were fighting a war without the internet, I would say, yell, you didn't have a prayer.
	The fact is, Google is your friend.
	Bing is your friend.
	All these search engines, you can find the most amazing stuff because for some reason it all gets put on the internet.
	And you cross-correlate.
	And I don't want to turn the show into how to be a political activist.
	The point is that even in areas where you would think no one cared, i.e., a face sitting on another planet which isn't going to put food on anybody's table right away, we were able to mobilize enough political resources using old-fashioned pre-internet technology, i.e., fax machines, to get new imagery and a continual cascade of new imagery with all the succeeding missions after Mars Surveyor.
	But even so, Dick, you know, over the years since that happened, and it was, I remember you and R. Bell on the radio in America, you tried to get a million faxes sent to the White House, jam up their systems, make them realize.
	But the fact of the matter is, the internet is your friend, yes, but it's also your enemy because there are people there who can deride you, which they do.
	They knock you.
	But see, everyone now is aware of that.
	Even if you're Joe Blow or Mrs. Blow and you have a Facebook page, you will have trolls show up who will spread the most scurrilous, scandalous, outrageous lies about you just because you're visible.
	So people's sophistication that the internet is not truth, you have to dig for truth, has risen.
	And people now, fortunately, realize you can't go to Wikipedia to find out about people because Wikipedia, would you believe this?
	The actual facts are, and this was documented by a Caltech student who wrote some brilliant software some years ago and published, I think in the mid-2000s, 2005, 2006, somewhere around there, that most of the readjustments of Wikipedia pages, expunging things that are assumed to be false and putting in other things that are really false, is done by NASA.
	The software to track who's doing what also exists.
	You just have to pay attention.
	And the reason this is all relevant to our discussion is because I'm coming on this afternoon or this evening over there to talk for less than an hour about the greatest cover-up in history, which is the human race exists in a solar system full of ancient ruins and the extraordinary ancient technologies left by our forebearers, our forerunners.
	And for some reason, the governments, the space agencies, and yes, the bankers of the world don't want us to know about it because it would change things radically and basically put them out of power.
	Now the Mars Curiosity rover, there were pictures from that, which looked to me like the rubble of some buildings.
	You know, there were a lot of people who were saying that that's what they looked like.
	But then I did a reality check on myself and I thought, well, how can that be?
	And a lot of other people also said, how can that be?
	But you were out there, you put yourself over the parapet again, and you said, look at them carefully.
	But the problem with it was, we didn't get...
	And then the images that we've had since have been nothing much.
	Well, they have been basically playing around at the edges of this huge formation called the Mount Sharp in the center of Gale Crater where they landed, you know, last August.
	Because that's the safe part.
	As they get closer and closer to that mountain, Howard, they will find, and everybody is going to find out along with them, it's not a mountain.
	It is an ancient artificial arcology of such vast extent and demonstrating such sophisticated technology millions of years ago in the solar system that they've been basically mucking around at the edges because there's some kind of a timetable, as we have now decoded the politics, to where this cannot be released until a certain time.
	And I think that this year, this coming year, 2013, toward the end of it, is when the first real indications of ancient technologies on Mars are inevitably going to be released to the public and will be announced as such because they've been laying the groundwork.
	As you know, the Curiosity did some drilling a few months ago, and the assessment was that all the conditions necessary for human-type life, Earth-type life, existed on Mars millions of years ago.
	Like water.
	Yeah, like water.
	And other materials, phosphorus, nitrogen, you know, things like that.
	They've now drilled a second hole about nine feet from the first in this floodplain where they landed before they head to this mountain.
	And they are going to announce those results in a couple of weeks.
	This is being done as confirmation of what the first results were, which is going to be another data point in the public record.
	Mars, in fact, could support life.
	Well, when they are tracking toward the mountain after this drilling is finished, they have to go by a form called the Shaler Formation, S-H-A-L-E-R.
	They went past it on the way to where they are now, and they have to backtrack to head toward the mountain in the next few weeks.
	That formation is stunningly geometric and looks, in fact, like buried artificial mechanical ruins.
	So let's not lose this point.
	You know, for our audience here, what we're saying is that these, what you're saying is that these things look regular in shape.
	They can't be random.
	They look as if they've been made at some time by somebody.
	Yep.
	Now, we are used to looking in the 21st century at modern stuff.
	When you look at Liverpool, when you look at London, when you look at New York, when you look at, you know, on the Google, you take photographs of any place on Earth, the reason we recognize our stuff, artificial stuff, human engineering, is because it's all new and crisp and sharp-edged and bright and shiny and fresh paint and all that.
	What you need to do to understand what's on these images is to look at ancient thousands of years old ruins.
	And ruins look totally different than modern stuff.
	Except there's an underlying geometry which is the same.
	Even when you erode something, it erodes, if it's artificial, along a regular geometric pattern.
	And are you saying that that is exactly What's happened on Mars?
	That's what's happened on Mars.
	In fact, if you want to really have an interesting afternoon, take some of these stunning, horrible, shocking photographs from Oklahoma, from the tornado tragedy of yesterday, and put them side by side with some images from Mars.
	Then add a lot of mud, stir around for a couple of million years, and you'll see what ruins look like under natural conditions after they've been degraded, degraded, degraded, and they're just a few bits and pieces left.
	Now, look, you are a serious scientist.
	You've spent a lot of time researching this.
	You've put your neck on the block time and time again.
	But are you seriously telling me tonight that there is the possibility that officials and the powers that be and NASA are actually going to come out and say, actually, life on Mars, it's not just David Bowie in a song.
	It's true.
	Well, the timetable is up for Grebs.
	I don't have access to their playbook.
	I don't know when they are deciding that it's safe.
	But you said this was the year of decision, 2013?
	Well, looking at the trajectory of where the rover is going to go, curiosity, it has to go by these amazing ruins to get where it's ultimately going.
	And there's even more amazing stuff where it's going, which is the edges of this place called Mount Sharp, which is actually a huge, shattered, destroyed building, many, many millions of years old.
	And yet on a planet where there is no free oxygen, things don't rust at the same rate that they do here.
	So whereas you would have mechanical, metallic things rust away in a few thousand years on Earth, on Mars, because there's no free oxygen, those same things can last millions of years and still retain their shape, their geometry, their recognizable artificial character.
	So you're saying now, and you have been saying for a long time, that there has been a civilization there that was capable of doing this, did do this, and then somehow died out, disappeared, or moved somewhere else like here.
	And we are going to be told maybe some elements of the truth about this, which will be the most, I mean, forget all the day-to-day news, the stuff that happens, the politics, the financial scandals, all the other stuff that is, you know, today's good reading in the paper, and as we say over here, tomorrow's chip paper, you know, what they wrap French fries in.
	This is stuff that will change everything if it happens.
	Which is why, Howard, it's been held up for over 50 years.
	NASA has had evidence that the solar system used to have a lot of intelligent design and habitation, you know, for 50 years, since the first missions to the moon.
	They have suppressed it.
	Why have they suppressed it?
	Because we found a document, a NASA study, commissioned under the Eisenhower administration before, you know, Kennedy assumed office in 1960.
	And this official document called the Brookings Report, which is available for free on our Enterprise Mission website, enterprisemission.com.
	Just go and look for Brookings or Google BrookingsReport, Enterprise Mission, and it will take you right to it.
	This official government document, you know, commissioned by NASA of the famed think tank in Washington, the Brookings Institution, basically told NASA if they found evidence of intelligent life in the solar system, they should keep it quiet for fear of, get this, destroying civilization.
	The fear, the paranoia in the McCarthy era.
	Remember the McCarthy hearing?
	Yeah, when communists or alleged communists were hounded.
	Under every bed and all in Hollywood and all that.
	Well, that kind of paranoia was redolent in the academic community.
	I mean, I worked at the American Museum of Natural History in New York City.
	I was head of the Hayden Planetarium.
	I was head of Special Projects and Public Affairs for Hayden.
	And right down the hall from me was a very famous anthropologist named Margaret Mead, who some of you Brits may recognize.
	Margaret Mead did her doctoral work on American Samoa.
	And her thesis, her doctoral dissertation, was basically that advanced civilizations, when they meet primitive civilizations, i.e.
	non-technical civilizations, they basically wind up destroying them.
	Not through war, not through military conquest, but through cultural infusion that totally destroys the cultural foundations of the indigenous culture and basically makes them go away and adopt the mores of the more advanced culture which found them.
	In other words, as the Borgs say on Star Trek, you assimilate.
	Exactly.
	will be assimilated.
	But listen, you talked about the Brookings report, and the Brookings report said...
	Make your point, yeah.
	Margaret and I, long before I knew what she was involved with in terms of Brookings, used to have these conversations in the middle of the night because she worked at night stomping around in the halls thinking, and I worked at night, you know, preparing stuff.
	And we had these conversations.
	She was terrified that NASA would find advanced societies that would do the same thing to us culturally that Gene Roddenberry had the board doing on Star Trek, i.e.
	assimilating us and making all our values disappear.
	So there was this inherent paranoia at the foundation of the Brookings report because guess who one of the key players was in documenting and putting together Brookings?
	Tell me.
	Margaret Mead.
	Right.
	So she had the vested interest.
	Let me ask you this question, though.
	The Brookings report said, and you know, I've seen the writings about it, so I know this, that it's a massive dilemma for the human race.
	If you're going to reveal this stuff, then you risk destabilizing everything, causing absolute anarchy.
	Why is that different now than why have things changed in 2013 compared with the way they were 50 years ago?
	If it was a problem and a threat to civilization back then, it must be now, mustn't it?
	Well, I'm going to give you a flip answer, which is really, really, really serious.
	Star Trek.
	Brookings recommended in the What Do We Do About This Situation part of the document that there be a Massive educational and entertainment movement put in place to educate people through entertainment, through films, through movies, through television shows, etc.
	That the boogeyman out there, the aliens, the ETs, were not going to assimilate us.
	In fact, we could learn from them and they could learn from us and we could be equal partners in some kind of a communications dialogue, if only by radio.
	Richard C. Hoagland, American space expert, hold that thought.
	We've got to do what they do on American radio all the time.
	We do it a bit less here so people get a decent say, but we'll be back to you in just a second.
	Richard C. Hoagland, a man who worked for NASA, a man who is telling you what he thinks is going to happen very, very soon.
	We're going to hear a truth that most of us, perhaps almost all of us, never thought we would live in our lifetimes to see.
	26 minutes past 11.
	Stay there.
	Radio City 96.7, City Talk 105.9, Howard Hughes here.
	Good to have you there tonight.
	We have Richard C. Hoagland on the line from New Berkeley Gove, Albuquerque, and he's just made a very big statement.
	And this man is not a rolling-eyed conspiracy theorist.
	This man is somebody with a serious, big scientific background.
	He worked for NASA.
	He is currently the science advisor to the biggest overnight talk show in America.
	And we're talking about enormous listening numbers here.
	So this guy is a serious man.
	Richard, so you were saying, and let's summarize it now before we move forward, that you think we are going to hear something big this year or around about now.
	Well, Brookings laid out a policy 50 years ago, which basically said they're not ready.
	You must prepare them for this information.
	And we've had 50 years of preparation.
	We've had everything from Gene Roddenberry, my dear departed friend, Star Trek, which is now in its second iteration through J.J. Abrams and his new movie franchise, to Star Wars, to how many television shows are there about space travel and aliens and ETs and all the documentaries and, you know, the history channel and the travel channel.
	And you can't turn on television without seeing some show on aliens or ETs every time you look 24 hours a day, seven days a week.
	That's all preparation.
	So at some point, the other shoe has got to drop.
	As I'm looking at the Curiosity mission data, I'm seeing, and a lot of other people are seeing all over the web.
	You can see posts and you can see blogs and you can see imagery with arrows and circles and marked up and people pointing to various things.
	We're not the only ones who see this, but we live in a culture, which is really weird, Howard.
	We live in a culture where if an ordinary human being sees something and says, so-and-so happened, we don't really pay attention.
	It's only when officialdom says something happened that we incorporate it into our reality and we say, oh, that must be real.
	Of course, we know that officials lie.
	We know officials obfuscate.
	We know they cover things up.
	But when they speak, we still listen.
	So, if there is a timetable for disclosure, a word which is kind of overused these days, as you look at this data and the data becomes more and more obvious to more and more people, which is unavoidable given where this rover is going to have to go,
	at some point, and I think it's going to be this year because that's the timetable for when it gets to the really interesting stuff, there's going to have to be some announcement with this foundation underneath it that, yeah, Mars could have supported life.
	All the chemistry is there, the science, the biology.
	All that's missing are the ruins of artifacts.
	And that may come about in the next, you know, nine, ten months.
	Because you're saying we've been prepared for this, it's not going to cause chaos.
	People are not going to riot in the streets.
	Governments won't lose the confidence of the people.
	We're ready for it, so we'll know what to do.
	What will you do, though, Richard?
	You've been talking about this stuff for a very long time.
	This is getting to a critical mass now, you say.
	What will you do if we don't hear something like that?
	Well, remember, the timetable is theirs.
	We don't have access to the timetable.
	We have to basically depend on clues.
	It's like, you know, the old-fashioned Kremlin watching where we all tried to decode what the Kremlin and the Russians were up to based on, you know, troop movements and satellite imagery of various states of readiness.
	If it doesn't happen this year, then there's 2014.
	Sometime between now and the next election, you know, to give it the broadest brush, I think that truth is going to make something happen because you can't keep taking these amazing images and put them out over the internet and have millions of people looking at them and not have a groundswell of people saying, hey, you missed that.
	What is that thing over there?
	Problem is, you know, the internet, as we both said, is a fantastic tool.
	It gives people an opportunity to have their say that they've never had before.
	If you look at some of the pictures and the comments that are allowed underneath them, you get people saying, that's just random bits of rock.
	And I've seen hundreds of those comments.
	I have.
	Yeah, well, I have too.
	The point is there's also people who are fighting back or standing up and saying, no, it's not a rock.
	It's a piece of junk.
	It's something somebody made.
	Because for all of these comments on these stories, if you notice, there's a pattern to some of the comments.
	It's like the negative, skeptical comments tend to come in a pattern, almost like they're by people who are paid to disinform, to stamp out burning ducks, which is an old American expression, to keep people from taking other people too seriously when they point out anomalies that are glaringly obvious.
	I mean, I was doing a show one night with George's substitute, John Wells, who is on weekends.
	He's on Saturday night on Coast.
	And, you know, John and I were discussing this, and I started sending him images, just emailing images.
	And about the fifth or sixth image, it came into his inbox, and he opened it up, he starts commenting on the air.
	Holy cow, look at, that's no way that, in other words, he had an honest on-air live reaction to real data.
	And through him, millions of people who normally would not have taken this seriously, maybe were kind of forced to take a second look because John Wells was seeing things that in his mind could only be the ruins of something that was made by an intelligent hand of design.
	Now, we have to say, because I have spoken to John Wells, that John Wells is a serious thinking guy.
	Not only is he a great radio presenter and a man interested in all this stuff, but he's also the voice of a lot of American movie trailers that a lot of people over here will have seen.
	He's one of those guys who says, in a world.
	Yeah.
	Yeah, that's what he does, but he's got a lot of credibility in this.
	And he does not accept things easily.
	Having had a half-hour conversation with him a while back, he doesn't.
	Oh, no, no.
	He is the most incredibly interesting iconoclast.
	He makes art look almost like a pussycat.
	All right, no.
	So when he said live, Art Bell, yeah.
	So when he said live to the images I'm sending him, holy, I can't even say what he said on this.
	No, please don't.
	No, no, I don't want to get you fired.
	Well, you know, this is the UK.
	You know, we're a bit delicate here.
	A bit, yes.
	Anyway, the point is that if you're honest and you look at this stuff and you don't have preconceptions and you don't think that Mars is a place where, as Elton John used to say, you couldn't raise your kids, and what they're doing is they're delicately laying the foundation.
	Because if I show you a picture of an ancient piece of junk, you know, something man-made, something machined, and it's in a place where scientists uniformly say nothing has ever been possible to be alive there.
	It's very different if I show it to you after the consensus is, oh yeah, Mars used to be warm and fuzzy and it could howl all kinds of life.
	You see, it's all about context.
	It's all about preparing people to believe what you want them to believe.
	A la Brooking.
	In a way.
	We have been programmed for 50 years to accept ultimately at some point the idea of ETs and aliens.
	The only question, Howard, is in the script, when does it say alien ruins enter stage left?
	Because once we get that, is that your dog I've just heard?
	That is Morella.
	Morella loves airspot.
	I've never had your dog on the shoe before.
	That is a first tonight.
	She is jealous that you have my attention.
	Well, she won't have to worry too long, but there's a lot to get through in the next 23 minutes or thereabouts.
	So here we are in a situation where for you, this is absolute gold dust if it happens.
	Only problem is whenever I put you on my online show, The Unexplained, and I'm always very grateful to you for coming on that and for coming on here as well.
	I will get emails from a lot of people who love you and are devotees of you around the world.
	But I get emails from Christchurch, New Zealand, Liverpool, everywhere.
	But I will also get emails saying, this is Richard Hoagland just teasing people, leading them.
	Like in England, we have this rhyme about the grand old Duke of York.
	He had 10,000 men.
	He marched them up to the top of the hill, but then he marched them down again.
	And that's what they say about you.
	Well, we're only following the data.
	Remember, I can't go and raid, you know, secretly like Wikileaks, NASA's secret archives.
	I can't force them to reveal stuff.
	I just know there's an awful lot of people in the agency putting on the web really amazing imagery, which if you go and look at it carefully, objectively, and you compare it to ruins, actually, Oklahoma is not good because Oklahoma is still too fresh, too sharp.
	It's got boards and splinters and nails and roofs and concrete, and it's just too fresh.
	You need to look at ancient ruins, and there's a lot of imagery on the web of the Middle East, you know, Iraq, Palestine.
	And there you will find the key.
	Listen, we've got to just take a little bit of time out, so just hold that thought.
	I want to talk about your newest research, because you're just back from Hawaii.
	I want to talk about what that was about and what that means.
	But, you know, I, for one, Richard, I hope that you're right about this because, you know, I think like a lot of us dreamers and a lot of us Star Trek lovers, I want it to be true.
	Richard C. Hoagland, American Space Expert in Albuquerque, New Mexico, here on City Talk 105.9 and Radio City 96.7.
	But Richard, you're just back from Hawaii.
	You were telling me in an email.
	What was going on there?
	Why were you there?
	Well, we were measuring the hyperdimensional torsion field physics theory.
	Yes, you need to explain that to our audience.
	Well, it's a model of physics which has not really seen a lot of attention either in the United States or in Europe because it was basically classified for decades as part of government not telling you what's going on.
	And the only reason that it came to light was because of the fall of the wall and the collapse of the Soviet Union and the publication of tens of thousands of papers that the KGB, the Russian CIA, had been keeping under wraps during the height of the Cold War that suddenly flooded journals and the internet and were made available to the West.
	And lo and behold, certain mathematics that we saw in the relationships of the monuments of Mars at Sidonia turned out to be the fundamental mathematical relationships encoded in these physics papers that were basically made public after the collapse of the Soviet Union.
	In other words, everything is 19.5 degrees.
	Well, that's kind of an interesting code.
	You know, it's not everything, but that is a key number in this mathematical reconstruction of how the universe really works.
	Bottom line, over the last eight or nine years, since about 2004, I have been measuring this physics using a detection system that I adopted from one of my colleagues who's no longer with us.
	His name is Bruce DePalma.
	He was the brother of the famous film director Brian DePalma.
	And Bruce had evolved some very interesting mechanical measurements and laboratory experiments decades ago, going back to the 70s.
	I updated one of his sensing tools and digitized it.
	And Robin and I have been going all over the world measuring both eclipses, ancient sites, you know, Venus transits across the sun, the energies at sacred places like Stonehenge, Silbury Hill, Avebury,
	and we're compiling a list of how the physics of these places is different and extraordinarily suggestive of a whole range of technological applications as we continue to do these measurements around the world.
	And I'd always wanted to measure the Hawaiian island, the big island itself, because not only is the world's most extraordinary astronomical research facility there on Mauna Kea, 12 major telescopes from all kinds of agencies all over the world, but it also is located at this crucial latitude, 19.5 degrees, that plays such a huge role in the mathematical reconstruction of this physics.
	And I got to tell you, Howard, the readings for the entire week we were there, including the eclipse, were nothing short of mind-blowing.
	Absolutely astonishing what we got by going to Hawaii.
	And one of the things you said to me in an email is that the eclipse that happened while you were there allowed you to see things in space that you wouldn't, of course, be able to see if the sun was beaming down at you all the time.
	Well, yeah, during an eclipse, you have the moon aligning with the sun, and it's the physical alignment of two rotating bodies in space that gives us the readings that we're measuring with our instrumentation.
	Those alignments are not just the moon and sun, they're also the moon and planets, certain angular relationships between the moon and planets, or the planets and themselves.
	And you need to be at a place which will resonate, that will allow a detector on the Earth to pick up these vibrations that are not electromagnetic.
	These are not normal vibrations that we would record by normal instrumentation.
	So that in itself has a whole special discussion.
	If you want to go to Enterprisemission.com, there is a long, careful paper that I wrote prior to last year's solar eclipse that took place here in Albuquerque after starting out over by China.
	And it's called a hyperdimensional eclipse, a most hyperdimensional eclipse.
	Just look for that on Enterprise and then read it and it will give you the background to what we're doing and what we're measuring.
	Now, why is any of this important?
	I was about to say, what does this mean?
	And why is it important?
	Why should the audience tonight, by the way, I'm really very gratified by the number of commercials you have?
	Do you know why?
	Well, because we're really successful.
	That's why.
	That's a large audience.
	Yes.
	People want to sell to a large audience.
	You wait till you start getting emails from here.
	You will.
	Anyway, the reason we should all care is because physics is how the world is run.
	Without physics, you don't have technology.
	Without technology, you don't have a decent human life.
	You can't feed 7 billion people.
	You can't clothe them.
	You can't house them.
	You can't make a future that's human for them.
	So our future is inextricably linked with technology.
	But, as we've learned over the last 30 or 40 years, certain technologies we are employing right now, like based on fossil fuels, are killing the very planet that we need to live on.
	So in order to replace fossil fuels, producing most of our energy, with something that is non-polluting, we need to understand physics and we understand what real alternative energy sources could be.
	Well, these measurements, Howard, are directly connected to the ability to tap into the ether, the subspace stratum between the worlds, what space is made of for billions of light years in all direction, to tap into that and to basically make electricity that doesn't pollute like oil and coal and fossil fuels do.
	Who is researching this now then?
	Who knows about this?
	The military has been doing this for decades.
	This is black ops technology.
	They've got actual hardware that's doing this.
	They just don't make it public.
	This is stuff that's in government budgets.
	They're paying for it, but we don't get to hear about it because it's secret.
	Yep.
	So as the same with the ruins on Mars and on the moon and on other places in the solar system, our mission, should we choose to accept it, and we did a long time ago, the Enterprise mission, is to make this technology public, to lay out how it's real,
	how it's reproducible, how you can confirm it, how you can make scientific predictions based on it, and ultimately how you can actually see machinery using this physics to produce energy, oh, and a few other things that might be useful for human society, like anti-gravity.
	Have you been watching any of the coverage of Oklahoma over the last 24 hours?
	Oh, yes.
	Okay.
	Haven't you been struck by the extraordinary anomalies surrounding this tornado?
	And I'll give you a couple of examples.
	They found huge steel gas tanks, the kinds that they store propane in, lofted half a mile from the tank farm where they were living, where they sat, to where they were found after the tornado had passed by.
	Now, Richard, we've got two minutes before I have to go to another break, and then we've got to get to our peaceful hour here.
	So what does that mean?
	How do you float a several-ton tank half a mile, 2,500 feet through the air from the wind?
	if the wind can That's what they do.
	Exactly.
	Because no one looks further.
	What I'm looking at is the possibility that the same physics that we measure between stars and galaxies and the moon and the sun, and we just came back from measuring in Hawaii, also is responsible during an E-5 hurricane for reducing the mass of the materials, the cars, the tanks, the other things, so that the wind can basically push them much further than if the physics of a rotating...
	Are you saying that somebody used a technology, the technology you were talking about there, this very powerful thing, to make the impact of that hurricane less, that twister less?
	No.
	No, I'm saying that all tornadoes, ultimately we now, we found out in the 50s that tornadoes are electrical.
	You know, there were witnesses that were in storm shelters that would look up in the center of a tornado and it flew over their house, and they reported all these electrical arcs going on in the cone extending up into the sky.
	So we know there's electrical activity.
	Electrical activity, plasma discharges, create torsion field changes in mass and inertia.
	What I'm saying is that a tornado may actually reduce the weight of various objects, allowing them to be picked up and flung faster, farther, and causing more damage.
	It's a natural demonstration of this power, and you think for a very long time, somebody somewhere has had the ability to use the power that this natural tornado was able to show us yesterday.
	Now, here's the next step.
	We've only got one minute.
	If that technology exists somewhere, it could be used to intervene and stop dangerous tornadoes before they kill anybody or ruin any property.
	So why is that not being done?
	Because it's a secret too big to allow people to have access to.
	Going back to your conversation with the guy about the bankers, the loss of control, they're willing to see people killed and cities destroyed rather than release this technology.
	And our job, everyone listening to me right now, is to force it into the open so we all get to use it.
	Richard C. Hoagland in Albuquerque, New Mexico, you have approximately 15 seconds to let people here listening in Merseyside, the Northwest, North Wales, or wherever they're listening to us online in this world.
	Where can people find out more about you and your work?
	Enterprisemission.com.
	Richard C. Hoagland, a real pleasure.
	Thank you for making time for us.
	You and I will talk again, and if you want to hear this again, it will be on my website, theunexplained.tv.
	Richard C. Hoagland is enterprisemission.com.
	This is Radio City 96.7, City Talk 105.9.
	The great Richard C. Hoagland there with his current work and introducing himself to a whole new audience at Radio City 96.7 and City Talk 105.9 in Liverpool.
	Next up, a man you may not be aware of, David H. Boyle.
	Now, we were on air with him for about an hour and a half.
	I'll just let you hear a slice of what he had to say because he has a view and a thought and an interest in pretty much everything.
	So this is David H. Boyle.
	I'm just wondering whether there is actually some kind of civilization out there that maybe knows about us, but is probably maybe a million years ahead of our civilization that's so far advanced that perhaps live in a different parallel universe to us and that can be virtually live in the perfect world with the ability to cure anything and
	the ability to solve any kind of problem that is so advanced.
	There might be a really advanced civilization out there, but because they are a million years ahead of us, they know all about us.
	They might occasionally have the odd look at us and perhaps they come to us in that 97% of everything that we can't see or be aware of.
	But they don't want to make physical contact on our level because, frankly, we're so far down there, we're not going to help them.
	And we might actually, as you hinted before, we might actually teach them a few bad lessons that they'd forgotten years ago.
	Right.
	Dean, you're quite right.
	The comment is, it's all around you in the information.
	Who are the watches?
	Your Bible tells you all about the watches that overpear us.
	The beings that we in the past call gods.
	Who are they?
	They're extraterrestrials.
	They're the beings who are far more advanced than we are.
	And I don't agree with your hypothesis there, Howard, that they are here to damage us or to learn.
	They're here to assist us in our own evolution without interfering with our own free will.
	The prime directors.
	Yes.
	And that's why they keep from landing now and coming and waking us up to what's really going on.
	If they're there to help us, why do bad things happen?
	Why did that factory collapse?
	You know, were these people making people in there?
	You can't be over every inch of all the world all of the time at every place of every point of view.
	If they're so advanced and so clever, they can be, can't they?
	They are probably watching to a degree many things.
	They won't interfere with what's going on.
	They're not allowed to interfere without 51% of the population asking them.
	Ah, so that comes down to our, you're talking about our collective.
	We have our own free will.
	All right, and if we all got together as a self-aware being to evolve.
	I'm not going to do this, but if I begged everybody listening to this to concentrate on making a thing happen, and again, this has been done in America with millions of people, and it's happened.
	Of course it has.
	I think somebody tried.
	I think somebody tried to change the weather, I think.
	Well, I mean, we're changing the weather ourselves.
	Or Chemtrails are doing that thanks to the government.
	So you believe there's a really advanced power out there.
	I don't want to lose the point.
	Okay, but you think there's a really advanced power out there and they are waiting for us to phone them.
	They're waiting for us not to phone them.
	They're waiting for us to be prepared to accept them and in certain points of the government to stop shooting at them with particle beam accelerators, which you were shown in STS-48 and many other space footage you can see.
	We have advanced technology, the government does, and they are trying to prevent the contact between us all.
	The religions also at the highest level...
	I'm sorry to keep interrupting you, but these are important things you're saying.
	We want to unpack them.
	We have important technology.
	Yes.
	Black projects, they call them.
	We have underground bases that contain much information.
	We have particle beam accelerators.
	We even have spacecraft.
	How do you know that?
	Because there's many, many witnesses.
	The internet's full of people who are whistleblowing on back engineering of everything from all the aspects.
	You really don't understand.
	Or put it this way, most people don't get the opportunity to see it.
	But if you research enough black projects on the internet, you'll find loads and loads and loads of witnesses who are prepared to tell you.
	All right.
	Well, you say we have spaceships.
	I think I've got somebody on now from Preston who's going to agree with you.
	This is Patricia.
	Hello, Patricia.
	Hello, Howard.
	What have you seen?
	Right.
	I do believe that they've been coming here for thousands of years, right?
	Now, I'm going back to 1967 or it could be 68.
	Now, there were no mobile phones and we had no television or anything in the bedroom.
	And I was just doing the routine thing like I do every night.
	I went to bed about half past 10.
	And what I do, I draw the curtains, get undressed, and then redraw them back to, you know, to see the night time, whatever.
	See the night sky.
	Yeah, a lot of us do that.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	But what happened that night, we had a full moon.
	So I'd gone into the back bedroom to check the two kids and they were fast asleep.
	And the room was really bright with the sun at that side.
	You know, shining in their room.
	So then that was that.
	I went into the front little bedroom and checked the other two and they were fast asleep.
	And there was no light in that room because the moon was at the back of the house.
	So I get into my bed and I put my light out and I sat up for a bit because I've got a bit of insomnia and I lit myself a cigarette.
	Now the sky was clear that night.
	You know, you could see the stars and all that.
	And across from me, there's semi-detached houses.
	And at the back of them houses is a big field.
	This is up Long Ridge.
	I know it, yeah.
	Right.
	So I'm sat in bed with this cigarette and I'm looking out at sky at night and, you know, like you do.
	And I saw this bright star.
	And I thought, oh, that's a bright star.
	I wonder what that one's called.
	And remember, this is 1967, so it's not like we've got planes then that we have now.
	No, no.
	So I'm looking, and as I'm looking, this star is getting bigger.
	So I carried on looking.
	And I'm looking and looking, and it's getting bigger.
	And it started coming like into the shape of a little moon.
	And as it got shaped into a little moon, it come bigger like a moon.
	And I thought, that can't be moon.
	But I've just been, you know, at the back, it's at the back.
	It can't have come round this quick to the front.
	So I'm staring, I'm staring, and I'm trying to wake my husband up, but still looking out the window, if you know what I mean, trodden in with my arm.
	And of course, you don't want to turn your back on it or walk away from it because it might go away.
	Take my eyes off it.
	So I couldn't wake him up.
	He wouldn't wake up.
	So then it just developed into the shape.
	And I'm not, you know, I can still remember it like yesterday.
	It developed into a shape of an aircraft, of a spacecraft.
	And when you say a spaceship, what was it?
	It was hovering over the top of the houses, if you know what I mean.
	But like, it could have been far back into the field, you know, and there's a motorway and that at that.
	And was it that classic shape, you know, like a frisbee, but with a hat on?
	I tell you what it looked like.
	You know that film that come out, I don't know what year it come out, Third Encounters or something.
	Close encounters of the third kind.
	1977.
	It was like that, but it was a lot smaller, if you know what I mean.
	But it covered two semi-detached houses.
	Were you frightened?
	In Berlin.
	Were you scared?
	No, I wasn't frightened.
	I was just like flabbergasted, if you know what I mean.
	But I couldn't wake my husband up.
	And if you did, if you did, what would you say to him?
	Would you say, there's a spaceship over Preston?
	I'd just say, look, look, look, you know, I wanted to say to him, look, look, look at that.
	What's that?
	Look, look, look, you know, like that.
	And it had all these little things underneath, like something going round, you know, like, and it was like a colour, like a pinky or, you know, underneath.
	Like something at the fairground.
	Like, I don't know, but it was a proper spaceship now then.
	This is why I think they've been coming in for thousands of years.
	Listen, Patricia.
	It might never have been on top of the housing, but it looked like it was because there was nothing at the back of the houses, only land.
	Can I tell you that what you've just described is a classic UFO sighting and those have been seen by thousands of people?
	no lights and things and splitting up.
	It was a proper...
	Then I'm still prodding my husband, right?
	Then it started to go back into the shape of what it came.
	But as it went into the shape of a, you know, as it was going away, it went from that into a moon.
	And then it just went, it didn't take as long going back as what it did coming.
	Now, if you watch Star Trek, when the ship goes into warp drive and goes away, that's what happens.
	And we've had people on here before, including, I'll say his name again, Richard C. Hoagland, American space expert who was on the other night and has been on with me before.
	They say that the fact that you see that on Star Trek and the fact that people like you describe it is actually the way that the powers that be use the media and entertainment to prepare us for the truth that aliens and spaceships are real.
	Because as I'm waking my husband up trying to, just as it flashed when it went, he woke up.
	Now then, the thing is, I said, did you see that?
	He went, yeah, but I don't know if he said it just to keep me quiet, you see, because I was so excited, you know.
	But this is a strange thing about it.
	At two o'clock at morning, there was two men.
	You see, with no mobile phones then, in them days.
	Also, I would have took a picture, whatever.
	At two o'clock in the morning, now this is only after 11 o'clock, but at two o'clock at morning, two men were coming off the courthouse shift work, coming over the clumpback bridge that was on Long Ridge Road on the two o'clock shift morning, you know, two o'clock at morning.
	And they saw it and they reported it to the Lancashire Evening Post.
	Right?
	Oh, you see, when you get the media involved and the papers involved, they start making a joke out of it.
	This only happened after 11 o'clock with me.
	Yeah.
	And I still had my cigarette in my hand.
	So you were not the only person to see this?
	They were the same people saw it after two o'clock.
	So it was around three hours.
	That is amazing.
	I wonder where those people are now.
	We had Patricia talking with us just before we took those messages, and she was talking about 1967 and a UFO scene over Preston, a classic UFO, you know, the classic movie style, classic sighting, 1967 seen by her and seen three hours later by two men coming off a night shift at Courtholds there back in the day.
	Pretty compelling story.
	Hey, David Boyle, what do you think?
	I don't doubt it, Pat, for one second.
	Can I tell you that over the years, having run the alien exhibition in Blackpool, that dozens of people from the local area have been to tell me what they've exactly seen?
	There's a gentleman named Sam Wright who runs the Pro UFO group.
	He will tell you his experiences.
	So when I made a joke about these things are never seen over Polten Lefiles.
	In fact, they are.
	Oh, yes.
	Are you ready for this one?
	This is one that happened to me on the 14th of April 2008.
	I was giving a lecture at the Litham St Hans New Horizons group on a Monday evening, and two of the people who were in the lecture had to leave early.
	And I was giving a lecture on aliens, and I read out a message from the Galactic Federation.
	And while I was reading out the Galactic Federation.
	I've got quite a lot of them from.
	And I was reading it out.
	While I was reading it out, the two people who left early were stood outside watching a black triangular craft over the top of the exhibition, over the top of the hall when I was talking.
	And several other people in cars stopped and discussed it.
	I didn't even know that had happened until the Gazette contacted me the next day and told me about it.
	This is on the 14th of April 2008.
	And then the media got to work.
	They came to see me, they took a photograph of me, and then they immediately turned it into a ridiculousness by stating that the two people that were outside who were intelligent, clever people, that they didn't know the difference between a black, stationary, triangular object sitting silently above a building, right, to one coming in from Spain with all the lights flashing at around the same time.
	Now, those two people are very, very upset about the result from the newspaper.
	And that's why I say that media control, because they do not tell you the truth.
	They only tell you what they want you to know and what they're allowed to know.
	David H. Boyle, if you want to know more about him, look him up online.
	He's got a website and it's worth taking a look at.
	The guy is a deep thinker, like I say.
	Richard C. Hoagland, well known to us here at The Unexplained, www.enterprisemission.com, the place to find him.
	Or you can find a link to his website, of course, as ever from my website, www.theunexplained.tv.
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