The Unexplained - Howard Hughes - Edition 108 - Ouija Boards

March 11, 2013 - The Unexplained - Howard Hughes

01:07:17

Edition 108 - Ouija Boards

This time another show on a subject you requested – Ouija Boards. We hear from Karen Dahlmanin California who has been using them for four decades with amazing – and sometimes spine-chilling –results.

Large

Audio Only |

Scroll

Time	Text
	Across the UK, across continental North America, and around the world on the internet, by webcast and by podcast, my name is Howard Hughes, and this is the Return of the Unexplained.
	Thank you very much for your feedback recently.
	You went to the website www.theunexplained.tv and followed the link and sent me an email.
	Very good guest suggestions we've had in lately.
	I'm following a lot of those up right now, and I'll get round to the others as soon as I possibly can.
	Very, very good suggestions, like I say, though, and I am pursuing all of them.
	A lot of controversy about Dr. Judy Wood as well.
	Dr. Judy Wood, of course, the scientist who has written a 500-page book called Where Did the Towers Go, who suggested that the collapse of the Twin Towers on 9-11 was caused by a directed energy weapon.
	A lot of you don't agree.
	A lot of you are pointing me towards other scientists who are saying other things.
	And a lot of you do agree.
	She is one guest who, like Major Ed Dames, the remote viewer, and Richard Hoagland, and many other prominent people, has completely split the audience.
	Some of you love what she has to say and applaud me for putting her out there.
	And some of you think not a good idea to have her on.
	And as long as I can ignite your interest, we're going to keep including guests like Dr. Judy Wood, and we have to return to that subject, which we will.
	And perhaps we'll try and do a critique of that work in a future edition.
	A lot of talk at the moment as we go from winter into spring in the northern hemisphere of some kind of massive economic collapse coming our way.
	I know we've had one already, and all of us are feeling the effects of that, aren't we?
	But a lot of people talking about a collapse of the dollar, which may just be scare talk.
	The Dow Jones, of course, recently hit a high.
	President Obama telling everybody everything's hunky-dory.
	Here in the UK, the British Prime Minister being criticised for perhaps putting the wrong spin on the state of the economy and the state of the recovery, so-called here.
	But a lot of controversy to do with the economy and a fear among a lot of people that something may be about to happen.
	And I'm going to be following this.
	I've had Gerald Salente on the show before.
	I'm trying to get some other guests on here to talk about this because I think it's well worth exploring.
	Something may well be happening.
	And I think we, the people, to quote a phrase, deserve to know.
	This time round on the show, we're going to get into a very controversial subject once again, but something that you have wanted me to talk about.
	And this is the subject of the Ouija board.
	Now, the Ouija board, if you have never heard of this thing, is a tool for connecting with the other side, essentially, or some kind of hidden knowledge.
	It's a board with a pointer.
	And if a couple of people get together, you can even do it yourself, I understand.
	I've never actually tried one, and I'll explain why soon.
	But if a couple of people get together, use this thing.
	The Ouija board supposedly gives the answers to questions and provides information from a place that perhaps we don't entirely understand.
	Now, I have to say, please, if you think that it's a good idea to play with these things, I would suggest you desist from this.
	There are so many stories, some of them probably apocryphal, some of them probably not, about people playing with Ouija boards and getting themselves into all kinds of trouble.
	I do not want to be responsible for that.
	Anything you do, you have to do with research and do responsibly and with good intent.
	I've found at last somebody good to talk about this, I think.
	Her name is Karen Dolman.
	She's based in Southern California and we'll talk to her in just a moment.
	Thank you very much to, well, my great webmaster, Adam Cornwell at Creative Hotspot in Liverpool.
	What can I say about Adam?
	He's been working very, very hard lately and working very, very hard for us.
	Adam, thank you.
	Adam is the person who gets the show out to you and has designed our fabulous website.
	Thank you to Diego in Madrid, who is a musician.
	Interesting to hear from you.
	And thank you to Dan Kavanagh, who's a member of a band called Anathema, who you might have heard of.
	Check them out on the web.
	They're very, very good.
	They're fans of The Unexplained.
	Dan, very good to hear from you.
	I'll get round to more of your emails in a future edition of the show, though, because I want to press on with this.
	Just to say, if you want to contact the show, go to the website, www.theunexplained.tv.
	Vital that you register a hit on the website.
	There you can send me email or make a donation to the show.
	That also, particularly at this time, is absolutely vital to allow me to continue doing this work and to develop it.tv.
	Okay, let's get to the topic now and to the guest in Southern California by Digital Connection, completely different time of day, completely different weather from cold early spring London where I'm recording this.
	Karen Dolman, hope you can hear me.
	Thank you very much for coming on The Unexplained.
	Thank you for having me.
	Hey, Karen, whereabouts are you then?
	I've got a little note here that says California, but California, big place.
	California is a large place and I'm down in southern sunny California, beautiful day.
	I live actually in San Clemente by the ocean.
	How nice is that?
	It's gorgeous.
	It's nice pretty much all year round.
	Well, and also to be a spiritual person, because a lot of my listeners are actually focused around that area that you live in.
	If I look at the maps and the demographics of people who listen to The Unexplained, 70% of my listening now is in the United States.
	And there's a great, if you look at the little blue parts on the analytics chart, the ones that are deepest blue, are focused around New York and Southern California.
	What's that all about?
	Well, I can understand that.
	Southern California is a very transformative place.
	It always has been.
	Los Angeles means the city of angels.
	So I think there's like a vortex, an energy center, if you will, where people tend to have open minds, open hearts, and search and look and have the time to do that as well.
	It's such a beautiful environment.
	And I think the beautiful environment in the audience supports ourselves to open up to those other kinds of pursuits, which are more of an internal pursuit as well as understanding what's beyond our own realities.
	I think you have to find a place that works for you.
	I remember doing a radio show.
	I used to be on what was the biggest morning drive show in London about a decade or more ago.
	And we used to take the show because the show made a lot of money for the radio station.
	So they used to take us out to fabulous places.
	And we once did a show from Maui.
	We did a complete week from Maui.
	And we had to go via Los Angeles.
	So we had a bit of a stopover in Los Angeles.
	Then we flew down to Maui and I found so many Los Angeles there who'd given up on the big city.
	They'd given up on that energy life and they just decided to get involved in something a little bit slower in pace and a little bit more contemplative.
	It makes sense.
	You know, LA and New York, I spend time in New York as well, there's such a cacophony of sounds coming out your body and it almost, you can feel, if you're, when you're sensitive, you feel it, it kind of hurts your heart.
	And so to go to Maui, which is such a heart open space where you can relax and really be back in tune with yourself, it's a big difference.
	And plus you've got all the smog and pollution and stuff and the bottlenecks of cars.
	So you go to Maui and it's just the opposite.
	It's a dichotomy of that chaos.
	Total separation, totally different.
	But you're lucky where you are because that brown cloud that hangs over LA that you look at when you drive up the big highway on the coast, that brown cloud doesn't really come down as far as where you are, does it?
	No, it doesn't.
	That's why I'm there.
	It doesn't come down to that southern part.
	It stays up by the LA San Fernando Valley area and it doesn't come down.
	And San Clamy is very special because it has this little, kind of comes in on the ocean side, comes in, and we keep our temperatures always right between 50s to maybe lower 80s.
	It's like that all year round.
	And you always get the coast bringing in the breeze and blowing off that.
	So we don't get smog.
	We get the coastal fog, but it's just a whole different environment down there.
	It's very depressing.
	I listen to Cogo Radio on the internet out of San Diego, and they keep telling me that your temperatures are like 18 degrees Celsius, 64 Fahrenheit thereabouts there in the wintertime.
	And I'm thinking, you know, we've had zero degrees here in London for a little while here.
	But we're moving into springtime now, which is good news.
	Now, listen, we've got to progress here.
	So first of all, I want to know about you.
	I know that you're a writer.
	I know that you're a spiritual person.
	I don't know a whole lot else.
	Tell me.
	Well, you know, I started as a psychotherapist.
	I'm actually an art psychotherapist and practiced for quite a few years, over a decade.
	And during that time, I developed my writing, my speaking skills.
	I had private practice therapy.
	And I worked in many different types of institutions and places with people in various different types of illnesses as well as sicknesses and disorders.
	And my specialty actually became multiple personality disorders, which is now known as dissociative identity disorders.
	Is that schizophrenia?
	It's, yeah, it's a mouthful to say.
	It's a form of post-traumatic stress disorder.
	And so what I learned doing that, and this is what takes me further into my spiritual journey, is that I learned to see people in ways that most people don't get to see people with such spludges inside of themselves, if you will.
	They have all these different personalities.
	You start to see when they change a personality, you might see a body response, a somatic response occur at the same time, such as they're talking about when they were burnt with cigarette butts and their arms will all of a sudden appear with the cigarette butts on them.
	So I began to explore, wow, your body holds memory.
	We hold memory from other times before.
	It could be this life, maybe previous lives.
	Hold on, you're saying that when you saw some people, they would exhibit what are almost like stigmata.
	You're talking about cigarette burns and there would be the cigarette burns from a previous existence.
	That's right.
	Or from earlier in their life when they were five years old and abused.
	I worked with really extreme clients that had some extreme abuse.
	And coming from that background, then that must have really, did it shock you?
	Did it freak you out?
	Did it make you inquisitive?
	It made me probably more inquisitive.
	I wasn't shocked.
	I wasn't freaked.
	I mean, I was prepared in that, in my studies, and in my work.
	And I progressed to that level of working with that kind of client.
	But I just made me really look at the mind, the body, the heart, the soul is so much beyond our physical encasing of this physical form I'm sitting in and you're sitting in.
	It's so much more.
	And if we can tap into that and reach into that, and it could be reach out of it, we could learn more about ourselves.
	And then that really, my clients really helped me write that first book that I wrote, The Spirit of Creativity, Embodying Your Soul's Passion, because it was about the techniques I used with them to help them find peace and solace within, in their life inside, so their outer life could change as well.
	And then that's kind of where I got into just really going way beyond what I might have even been taught in school.
	But you went a little further than a lot of people.
	And from one interview that I read about you and with you, you say that you've been using the Ouija board for about 40 years as a tool.
	That's absolutely correct.
	I started using it many, many years ago.
	And you're right.
	I'm just shy of 40 years right now.
	And that was something I started when I was quite young.
	And it continued.
	And so then working with a clientele like that, I had already experienced stuff like that through the Ouija board.
	And I, you know, would use the Ouija board as maybe something more novel in a game when I was very young.
	And then it progressed and I started learning how to use it correctly.
	And when I say correctly, there is a profound, precise way to use it to have incredible results that help you evolve and grow and understand your life as well as what is out there.
	All right.
	Now, we have a lot of younger people listening to this show and a lot of older people.
	My generation, I'm aware of the Ouija board because my sister, when I was a little kid, and this is a lot of years ago, had a pen friend in North Carolina called Debbie.
	And Debbie used to send us things from the US and we used to send her little gifts from the UK.
	And she would send bubblegum for me and stuff like this.
	And one day this battered parcel arrived in the days when the postal service didn't secure things perhaps quite as well as they do today.
	And inside was this board.
	And on this board, or connected to this board, was like a plastic-shaped heart with a little clear area in the middle.
	And this was a broken Ouija board.
	And I can remember this thing being unpacked and somebody in my family saying, for God's sake, whatever you do, don't touch that.
	That was my only experience.
	And I don't actually think we used this, although it stayed in a cupboard.
	It stayed in a cupboard for years, but we were told to be scared of this because it was some kind of portal to the devil, some kind of portal to bad stuff.
	You explain to me then what you've discovered about the Ouija board.
	What is it?
	What does it do?
	Great, great, great, great story there because it's true.
	Most people are, in my experience, I've learned, are afraid of it and are taught to fear it.
	You know, it has this ominous look to it.
	And it hasn't always had that same look over the years.
	I mean, truly, the Ouija using a board for divination with a little planchette went back to the Greek days.
	It goes back further than we even understand.
	But, you know, I think it became demonized with some of the shows that came out in the 70s and some of the shows in the 80s, which board and things of that nature.
	But okay, so it does.
	It looks like a little, it's a planchette.
	It looks like a little heart shape.
	And it has an open area or has a pointer at the end.
	And it actually points to the letters as it moves around the board and the numbers.
	And there's yes and no, and it has symbols on the board.
	Now I collect Ouija boards, so I have about quite a few, and each one looks a little different.
	But the idea is you can use it to communicate.
	So back to what you said, the Ouija can be perilous.
	It can be used incorrectly, and it can be scary.
	And I want to say that's a real thing.
	But I also want to say, if you use it correctly, and when I say correctly again, it's using with the intent.
	It's the intentions behind the use that'll get you the results.
	Whatever your intentions are going into the Ouija, because it is a portal, it's an opening, it's a vortex portal opening, that you will get that same intentions back.
	All right.
	Well, a lot of people who go into this, and certainly in that era when Debbie in North Carolina sent this thing to us, and look, as a boy, I used to get this thing out periodically and stare at it and kind of play with it, but not really do anything with it.
	But if you come to this thing with an open mind, then you're saying that no harm will come to you.
	And yet we read these stories, don't we?
	And many of them may just be urban myths about rock stars and people like that.
	And you read in the story and it makes great newspaper copy and you read, and the night before he died, somebody said that he was playing with a Ouija board.
	You see that kind of stuff in mythology all the time, don't you?
	Oh, absolutely.
	And I got to say, it's not just have an open mind.
	Open mind will allow it to work.
	It's you've got to protect yourself to do it correctly.
	Now, if you don't, okay, and we can get into that, but let's do talk about that negative side, the negative stigma that goes along with the board.
	Most people get it out, put their hands on it, ask silly questions, and then let it just talk to anybody.
	It's like opening up your front door and say, hey, anybody can come in my house and use it and stay here.
	That's what you do when you do the Ouija.
	If you don't set intentions, rules, serious rules, prayers, thoughts, it's a whole process you do over the board.
	But anything will come through if you don't know how to do that process correctly.
	So open mind is number one, that will get it to work.
	Number two is I don't recommend doing it by yourself.
	Do it with a partner.
	And the partner needs to be open-minded too.
	And number three, don't ever do it under the influence of alcohol, drugs, something that's wigging you out, because that's what you're going to get.
	You're going to get that same energy.
	And that's the problem.
	An awful lot of people do this for a bit of a laugh, a bit of fun, even now, even in this day and age.
	And from what I read and what I hear and what people have told me, they get a lot more than they bargain for.
	Yes.
	Spirits will stay around.
	You can have things being knocked off your walls.
	You can even see a physical apparition.
	I've experienced all this.
	This is why I know this.
	I've seen it all, experienced it all.
	Without knowing how to use the board.
	I just, it's a matter of years of doing it, realizing when I had a breakthrough with the board and had, and we can go to that story if you like.
	It's a really phenomenal story.
	Exactly.
	I want to take you there first, and then we can get into the safeguards and also talk about what it is you think we might be tapping into.
	But your first experiences with this, I think, are where we need to go now.
	Okay.
	Well, just briefly, earlier on, I didn't protect myself and I would speak to all different kinds of entities and characters.
	And I was fortunate, though.
	I did have one character come through in the beginning.
	And her name was Wilma Jean, and she was a slave.
	And she was definitely a spirited person, very spirit, I should say, but she was also earthbound.
	And by me communicating with her and talking to her, it kind of, well, it kept her more earthbound.
	She was lost, but she was definitely, she was benevolent.
	There's nothing in her that would want her to do trickery or deceit or hurt me in any way.
	So this goes along with the theory that a lot of people have mentioned to me that there is a gradation of spirit in a way.
	So it's like AM and FM.
	You've got certain spirits that inhabit AM.
	They're earthbound.
	They're down here.
	And then the others are on FM.
	They're on a higher plane.
	And then if you really get to Nirvana, you're on UHF, yeah?
	Yeah, that's a great analogy.
	It is.
	It's like tuning in frequency.
	You're right, like a radio.
	You tune it in.
	Some you can't hear that well and some you hear better.
	And some are broadcast from far away and some are closer.
	And some are broadcasting on minuscule waves.
	So it's, you know, it's not probably the best place to be broadcasting.
	So you believe that Wilma Jean, the former slave who was earthbound, really existed on this physical plane at some time and was wanting to communicate with you through the board?
	Absolutely.
	Absolutely.
	I do.
	And yes, I do believe that.
	And her messages were so clear.
	And she knew things even about my life that she probably should not have known.
	And over the years, I started talking to ghosts in the beginning.
	And that was, I'd go into homes, people said there's something here.
	And I would speak to what was there.
	Just many different experiences like that where I could research and look them up and find out, yes, this is accurate.
	And Wilma Jean was one of my first friends on the board.
	And as I started, I would say honing my skill at using the Buigi and honing it with people that were good at doing it with me, we started bringing in more and more advanced spirits, meaning they came from different arenas of out there.
	They weren't necessarily ghosts.
	You said one thing that I don't want to lose here.
	I want to just go back to this because I find this a little disturbing.
	You say that Wilma Jean knew stuff about you, which must imply that Wilma Jean had somehow been, I won't say snooping on you, but had been around you before.
	Yes.
	And that's what she said.
	she's like a, I would kind of say, I don't want to say a spirit guide, but she had been around me before, seen me with this board for years, and finally came through and spoke to me.
	What did she tell you?
	Well, she told me things like things that were going to happen.
	Now, I hate the board as prophecy, but yet it does happen.
	And to this day, it still can happen.
	It's not always 100% right, but she could tell me things that were going to happen.
	She could tell me grades I was going to get in school.
	She could tell me people I was going to meet.
	She could tell me what was going to happen that day.
	It wasn't 100% accurate, but she was up there in her accuracy.
	And so I found that a lot of my friends wanted to start talking to her too on the board.
	How old were you then?
	What age were you then?
	I was around at that time when I first met her, I believe I was 18, 19.
	All right.
	And what did your family, those close to you, think about you doing this?
	Did you tell them?
	Oh, it was normal.
	I had been doing it since I was eight.
	It was just normal.
	So they weren't a bit concerned that you were connecting with something?
	I think, you know, no, I know.
	I think my parents really just thought they weren't really paying attention to me at the time, what I was doing.
	And one of my brothers was really good at doing it with me, and it was more like our thing.
	Although I'd get messages and tell them, and they would say, oh, okay, I play Ouija.
	You know, they'd wink their eye and push it with their fingers.
	I'd say, no, that's not what we're doing.
	And it wasn't until I was probably senior in college, getting ready to go to graduate school when I really had some profound experiences after all those years of using it that people started saying, wow, there is something here that you're doing.
	I said, yeah, I told you.
	And there was more of a belief.
	And then my family would ask, well, let me know if you have a message for me.
	Sometimes they'd ask on that level, or my friends would.
	So they started all of them believing that you could do something with this.
	I'm fascinated how an 18, 19, 20, 21-year-old as you were then was able to protect themselves, shield themselves from anything bad.
	I know you said that you saw some entities and stuff like that.
	You have certainly during your career with this, but how you were able to stop the bad stuff coming in?
	Well, okay.
	So at that time, I had not been doing that.
	I did not understand that.
	I understood that I needed to use it with people that were open, open-minded, and weren't going to judge me or judge the process.
	And I knew it would work.
	So I started doing a lot of experiments with the Ouija, and I'd like to get into one of those that really shifted me.
	But I didn't really protect myself.
	I had a good consciousness about it, but I didn't do the process I do now that actually allows me to speak to nothing but that which is from the white light and comes through for goodness of all.
	I didn't do that back then.
	I was just fortunate, but I wasn't always fortunate.
	I didn't have spirits come through and cuss at me and actually become physical spirits and apparitions that would come out and touch me or knock things off the wall or make friends become obsessed with using the Ouija.
	It was some crazy stuff back then.
	But there seems to be a supremacy, and other people have said this to me over the years, of white light, goodness over dark energy and badness.
	In other words, if you tell, which is what you just said, if you tell the bad stuff to butt out, keep away, they obey.
	They do what you say.
	Well, I got to say, I don't see life that way, although I did say that.
	Let me back if I can say it.
	I think there's a necessity for dark versus light, meaning the two exist together.
	And I don't see something that's like dark as demonic.
	I see dark as being maybe lost, maybe looking.
	And so what I find, and this is with my clients now, that I found out later on when I was a therapist too, that even though they had all these multiple personalities inside of them, some were really demonic or quote, called demonic.
	They were truly a part of themselves that was so abused.
	It was so scared.
	So in the Ouija earlier on in my life, I started learning that these things that were scary mean were lost and wanted attention.
	So I don't think it was dark meant bad.
	What I do is I welcome them into the light and then come through with the help of somebody else to find the light and maybe find themselves to release and move on and not be stuck.
	So it's almost like a spirit release than I would do with the darker entities.
	And I say darker, not to judge them as bad, but as only as maybe lost, not finding their way.
	But they were either a ghost at one time or another energy that exists on another plane of existence.
	So you became a kind of cosmic rescue service for them.
	Yeah, emergency, exactly.
	Like 1900, I always joke, 1900, call Karen.
	Wow.
	When I have the planchette.
	You have to have some real courage, some real.
	I'm trying to find a word for it, but you have to have some real, real, the only word I can think of is Kohun is to be able to do that, you know?
	Don't you?
	Well, you can't be.
	Yeah, I always say, excuse me, it's not for the weak.
	And I don't mean that as a judgment either.
	I just mean don't do it unless you're really clear in your consciousness and who you are, because this is a real tool.
	It's a real tool that really will bring things in.
	And when we don't use it correctly, we get things, energies, when I say things, I'm not just talking ghosts, I'm talking energies that maybe have never been incarnated, spirits, other entities from other realms of existence that can get stuck.
	And why do that?
	It's like karma.
	Why mess with that?
	Sounds to me like this stuff works for you, Karen, because I can hear it in your voice.
	You are a massively focused and determined person.
	I think maybe for a lot of us who sometimes lose our focus, this could be a whole lot more difficult.
	Yes.
	Yes, it can.
	Right.
	And yeah, focus, that's a good word.
	I take the Ouija board so seriously now.
	And most of you are probably thinking, well, it's just a Parker Brothers game I can go buy at the store.
	Yeah, you can, but it's more than that.
	It's like when you get into using tarot cards or any other kind of divination tool, there's an energy about it.
	And you actually, you enter into the realm of that energy, of that vibration.
	And that vibration changes as you change.
	And that was my focus.
	And so I'm very, when I do Ouija, I'm serious about it because I know the depth, the breadth, I know the whole holism of it, that it really is a lot larger than maybe we even understand.
	But you say that people come to you for consultations so that presumably, what, do they sit the other side of the board and you both hold the planchette?
	Well, I have people that friends and people that know me and other friends, and other people that don't necessarily know I do all this, but they found out.
	Yeah, they might ask a question.
	I mean, I could do it right now with somebody here while we're talking to you and I could be getting a reading for you.
	That's the power of the Ouija.
	It's you don't have to be next to me while I'm doing this.
	God, That sounds incredibly tempting.
	I'm a bit scared, but that would be very good.
	We need to do that sometime.
	I think we do.
	And I have done that before many times.
	And I speak to, I just, from another show I was on, I was asked to start talking to people, try some different experiments.
	One was speaking to somebody in a coma, and I just did recently.
	And so I'm not going to say too much about it until I see how that goes because I did get a message and I want to see what happens with that message.
	But yeah, I'm the board with a person who's open as myself.
	And I have a small group of people that do this with me.
	And I would say it's a handful that are really good at doing it with me.
	And that we can talk to anybody anywhere that's open.
	Your guides, your dead animal, your pets.
	We could talk to living things.
	All right, really seriously now.
	I mean, my show is, I hope anyway, my background is journalistic.
	I'm trying to come to these subjects quite seriously.
	So I'm not a gee whiz in a comedy act.
	Having said that, and in a spirit of questing, I would be at some point very keen to do that with you because that would be a personal test for me.
	And my listeners know that I'm going to tell it like it is.
	So what happens, I will report back to them.
	So I think if you're up for that, as we say in London, I'm very keen.
	I'm up for that too.
	I'm up for that.
	And I will find the right person of my group of people that is willing to do that with me too, that feels that comfortable with me.
	And this is something, you know, when I do, we set it up as if this is a day or a moment.
	We set aside time and we make that the intention of what we're going to do.
	And it's like getting together and doing, I would say, I call it Ouija therapy.
	I'm a Ouija logist, basically.
	It's like we're studying what we can do and where we can go with the Ouija.
	So it's a very serious thing on my side too.
	And you have no fear that one day this is going to have terrible ramifications for you, that you may have opened a door to things that you may think you've protected yourself from, but actually, in truth, maybe you haven't.
	Absolutely not.
	I don't fear that at all.
	I know.
	I just, it's a comfort level I have with using this tool.
	But you must understand though, too, to backtrack, I have been seeing spirits since I was really young, since about the age of three or four.
	I can remember seeing them and talking to them and them coming in in my room and not quite making sense of all that.
	So I've really had experience with the paranormal, the outside experiences all my life.
	And because of that, I've learned that interacting with them, seeing them and being around them, that no, they can't hurt me.
	Yet, they still can surprise me and shock me at times.
	And that still happens.
	And then I set up new rules.
	And I say rules, it's, yeah, you have to control your space.
	I hate that word control, but you do have to set the space.
	And that means when I go to bed at night and I've got all my Ouija boards out here, there's a rule I have.
	Nobody can cross that threshold and come in my room.
	And I will speak to them whenever at another time, but they cannot cross that space.
	Because I set the intentions and I know, and that's what I value for myself and my own spirit, that's based on free will.
	Nobody can cross that free will.
	And that's how spirituality works.
	So it's like putting in parental controls.
	Yes, exactly on the internet or on your TV, exactly, or your phones.
	Okay.
	And you say that you've been connected for many, many years.
	I mean, 40 years with the Ouija board, which is pretty impressive.
	And you tell me that quite recently, although you don't want to discuss with me what happened, and that's fine.
	We can talk about that another time with the guy, the person in a coma.
	Right.
	Tell me about some of your communication experiences, though, some of them that have really raised your eyebrows and made you go, oh my God, I don't believe that.
	Okay, this is the one I wanted to get into.
	And this one, just talking to a friend about it, this happened when I was in college and she also recalled it.
	And I said, oh, yeah, you remember that time, don't you?
	This is what we did.
	I was doing the Ouija board quite a bit back then.
	I was, let's say I was 21, 22, senior in college at this time.
	And I had a little, I guess people started knowing down in my campus that this is something I was doing.
	And so I was kind of like the witch, the witch of the school, I guess.
	I don't know.
	But I was in a sorority and there were some gals in my story that were kind of freaked out on it.
	And because of the religion, I said, hey, you know me.
	I said, come on in here.
	I want to show you something.
	So I took them into a room.
	The gal I did it with, I never say somebody's name unless they want to be included in this, but she and I both were blindfolded.
	We had an older Ouija board in front of us.
	It was from the 19, I want to say the 40s.
	It was a bigger board than the common day board size now.
	I think it was a 1940, 1950s board.
	And now this is in the mid 80s, no, excuse me, late 80s doing this.
	So we sat there blindfolded, could not see, made sure we could not see.
	I had a third person sitting next to us who had the paper and pen ready to write.
	Usually I will spell out the letters and I look at the board and I write at the same time.
	I'm used to doing one-handed Ouija and one-handed writing.
	But I said, no, I want somebody else to write.
	My hands are on the board.
	She and I cannot see.
	We're sitting cross-legged Indian style with the board between our laps and we let it go.
	All of a sudden I hear somebody, it's going fast.
	First of all, it's going fast.
	And the person who's writing is not saying the letters.
	They're just writing it out.
	And it's going so fast that it's about ready to fly off the board.
	And again, we can't see it.
	I don't know what it's saying.
	I don't know where it's going.
	Neither does my partner.
	And people in the room are, I hear, oh, what?
	And I hear somebody start crying.
	And then I go, okay, can we continue?
	And they said, yes.
	Fast, fast, fast, fast, stopped.
	I pulled my blindfold off and I looked over and one gal was in tears.
	And I said, what?
	She goes, oh, I just felt like there was somebody here I'm related to.
	And the gal who wrote read what it said.
	And I'm going to not say names, but the message that came through, and this was a big turning point now with my use with the Ouija.
	The gal read it and it said, basically, so-and-so, this is your sister.
	And I'm with my boyfriend.
	And I said, what?
	You have a sister should have died?
	And she said, oh my God, you didn't know.
	I go, no, I didn't know.
	And she said, and then the gal read and it said, Tell mom and dad we are okay.
	Tell mom and dad we love them.
	We are here always watching over you.
	We are here on their side waiting for you.
	We will always be around you till we meet again on the other side.
	We have loved you for eons.
	We've always been with you.
	And also tell mom and dad and also tell our other sister that's still alive that we did not feel a thing.
	As soon as we were in that car wreck, we went into shock and we did not feel the pain or the gruesomeness of what or how horrific it was.
	The only pain we felt was the pain that you all felt, you experienced after, you know, when we died.
	And that's the pain that hurt the most.
	And we're here to tell you that we love you.
	And please allow this to be released and know that we're always with you.
	It was a message of that nature, so beautiful, so profound that everybody in that room had tears.
	That's a heck of a story.
	Very, very moving.
	I mean, even all these years on and for me hearing it for the first time, very moving.
	However, I have a lot of skeptical listeners.
	These are people who forensically, and I love them for it, dissect what is said on this show who will say, well, maybe that stuff was coming from some realm of your own.
	You didn't know about it, but of the sitter's consciousness.
	Perhaps it was being programmed by them and wasn't coming from outside.
	Sure.
	And I get that from people, the automation kind of technique or idea that's coming along.
	You know, let me say something to you, because my background is a therapist.
	And I would say this to any skeptic, I don't even want to make anybody believe.
	Back then, I wanted to show them something.
	So it was a trick.
	I don't do those tricks anymore.
	There's no reason to.
	I could, but I don't.
	The reason why I don't is because I don't need to prove anything.
	But as a therapist, I would say to somebody, you're telling me a memory or telling me a story and maybe our memories change as we get older.
	And maybe it's not 100% accurate.
	I said, but the key is, are we affecting change?
	And are you starting to feel a little better?
	So my thought was at this point when we got that message, I went, holy cow, this could be used as therapy.
	Now, I was trained to be a psychologist at that time.
	And I was getting ready to go to graduate school to do my training as a psychotherapist.
	And I was studying psychology.
	It was my master's, I mean, my undergraduate degree.
	And I was looking at from that level.
	Okay, so right here in this room, we had profound healing, profound healing and understanding.
	If that came out of me, wow, that's pretty cool.
	Then I can tap into other realms myself.
	I don't believe that was the case.
	But let's say that is a piece of it.
	I'm always open to that as well.
	That's pretty cool that I can do that even blindfolded.
	And so can my partner.
	And all of us are driving on the same level to get that kind of experience.
	And you ask a lot of people in this world what they want.
	And this is a pretty big statement because I'm speaking for a lot of people here, possibly even myself.
	But you ask people what they want in life.
	And they're not going to tell you, I want a million dollars or I want a Maserati sports car.
	A lot of people are going to say, what I want is peace of mind.
	And it seems to me that maybe through your therapy and through this stuff, you think that that's what you're providing some people, starting with that person you told all those years ago, that's what you're providing them with.
	Well said.
	Well said.
	And that's what transformed me with this board.
	That moment, because of the profound effects I saw in there, it wasn't about making people believers.
	It was about the fact that, whoa, such emotion still stored from, and this year her sister died, I want to say, it was maybe five, six years earlier, maybe.
	Such emotion stored.
	I went, wow, wow.
	If we can affect people like this, I've got to use this tool differently.
	And now I saw it as this is a communication device.
	This is to help somebody get to the root of something they want clarity on, something they want peace on.
	Like you said, peace of mind, maybe inspiration, maybe a little guidance, maybe a little confirmation, validation.
	That's what I use it for today.
	And what about all those stories that you hear of people going to, and they're all stories that come to you thirdhand.
	You read them on the internet and a lot of them may be apocryphal, but people do the Ouija board and they don't come out with a message of love and support like that one.
	The message says, you will die a week next Tuesday, that kind of thing.
	There's angry entities out there, angry, pissed, angry, upset.
	But how do you protect people who come to you, who you do this for and with?
	How do you protect them from that?
	How do you stop messages like, you will die a week next Tuesday or something bizarre like that coming through?
	That's a very good question.
	So we should probably talk a little bit now about the protective devices I have in place that I use.
	Okay.
	Okay, great.
	So what I do, and I'll just kind of explain it a little bit further, is when I have the board in front of me with another person, there's a seriousness to it, like we just discussed.
	I take this seriously, and there's a focus, and there's an intent.
	So somebody comes in the room with me, unless maybe a friend comes along because they're curious or whatever.
	So the person I do it with is the person I've been doing it with.
	They're not drinking.
	They're not under any kind of influence.
	And what we do is we sit down and I state a prayer.
	We hold hands first, connect the energy.
	And I state a prayer.
	It's like a prayer, an incantation.
	I'm not a religious person.
	I'm deeply spiritual.
	And so I'm always speaking to the energies that are around me.
	So I state a prayer.
	I ask for protective light, energy around us.
	I ask for the portal to be protected.
	I state that only that which is of the light, universal truth, knowledge, wisdom comes through.
	It's not really judgment.
	It's more about saying what I want.
	It's like an affirmation.
	I state as if that's all will come through.
	And then I make sure we're both protected.
	I ask the person next to me to take some moments and breathe in and out of their heart, to ground themselves into the earth, breathe in and out of their heart.
	And then when they're ready, we start.
	And so, but I also put the energy, when I say put, I imagine and visualize and state that the energy is around the house, the board, the portal, any animals that are around, any people that are in the room.
	And as we leave this space and go back into our lives, it's an opening and a closing.
	And even when we end the session, there's the same thing.
	I close and I thank all that came through.
	Now, your focus, though, is extreme and your determination.
	I mean, your personal spirit shines through this digital connection between the two of us.
	I have no doubt about that.
	But what happens if somebody comes to you, if I was to do this with you, okay?
	My mind is open.
	I think I'm a good guy.
	I'm a grown-up.
	But part of me would be thinking, and I couldn't stop that.
	I couldn't close that thought out.
	Part of my head would be saying, I'm a bit scared.
	Does that affect the session?
	Would that affect the session?
	You know what?
	It slows it down, and that's okay.
	And I'm used to that.
	Nobody's been doing it that I hang out with this long as I have.
	That's just part of the process, you know.
	As long as somebody's open, I mean, we all have our sides to us, right?
	Nobody's, that's the whole thing.
	We dark, light.
	I don't want to say it's good, bad.
	We all have dichotomies of our dualities within ourselves.
	We all have these issues and things, and that's just normal.
	That's just life.
	And people can come with fear.
	People can come with, as long as you're open, just tell me.
	Just say, yeah, I'm a little scared.
	I'm a skeptic, but I'm willing to try my cool.
	And it's fine.
	What it'll do is it will make it maybe spell gibberish at times.
	It'll come out a little slower.
	It may not move as well.
	Just various things.
	It may bring in more ghosts and maybe higher spirits.
	It just different things.
	But you're holding some people's lives in your hands in a way.
	If they come to you and they want the answer to some question, maybe that question is, you know, is it going to be okay?
	Most fundamental question.
	How do you protect them from something that will say, actually, it's not going to be okay?
	You know, I won't allow that.
	I don't use it as like a definitive thing like that.
	Like, for example, I'm going to go on a trip.
	Am I going to die?
	No, we're not going to play that game.
	No.
	Because to me, that's a game.
	So when people, so anytime we're on the board, and let's say that happens, and it does happen still, something about death.
	And I go, no, no, let's clear the board.
	Let's bring in another engine, energies, because it's true.
	You know, if you have such a worry and a fear, stuff like that can come through.
	But I don't want to be to hold somebody responsibility for somebody.
	I always, there's a disclaimer here.
	And I say, you know, the Ouija, I actually call my Ouija friends, the spirits out there, you know, they're not 100% accurate.
	They don't know everything.
	They know the level of what they knew as where they are, whether before they died or where they are in their level of existence.
	It's not a sure-proof thing always.
	It's to be used as a confirmation, validation, and give you ideas and thoughts.
	So I don't want to ever say somebody asked me a question.
	Okay, so I, let me see.
	So when am I going to meet my soulmate?
	Well, that's kind of silly, but we could talk about what's blocking you from meeting your soulmate.
	Let's look at it on a whole different level.
	So it comes back to your focus once again.
	And you have to make sure that the questions that you pose, it's almost like doing an interview with somebody.
	Correct.
	You have to make sure that the questions that you pose are the right questions.
	Then you can elicit the kind of answers that the person is looking for.
	Correct.
	It's very therapeutic.
	Again, it's used as a therapy device.
	And I'm using that loosely because I couldn't say, yeah, I don't do therapy on my Ouija board, of course not.
	But it's very therapeutic.
	That's what I'm saying.
	So to ask it like you do as an interviewer, to ask the right questions to pull out the information, that's what I do.
	And my spirit guides know that too.
	And some really cool things that what they'll do is, because I've been using it so much and I might say something, I'm asking a question like, okay, so for the year 2013, what do you think I need to do?
	Or what could I do to help promote this maybe with this new client or something like that?
	And what I'll find, it'll come back to me and ask me questions back, or it'll state things so succinctly to make me look into myself to get the answer.
	It might say, you just need to own it right now.
	Step into it.
	I'm like, okay.
	A lot of times it asks me with the people I do it with to stop to sit and talk amongst each other from something it just said and explore it further with ourselves.
	Then come back to the board and then, you know, like it's a third person here.
	And I talk to it as if it is.
	So it's almost like this roundtable discussion that you might get in graduate school with everybody in the class having a piece of something to say.
	And a lot of this is psychology, isn't it?
	If I came to you, I might be inclined to ask you, or anybody else, am I on the right path?
	But there would be part of me or that person, unless they're a very self-assured person who would think maybe I don't want to know the answer.
	Does that have any impact on what happens?
	Yes, it does.
	And see, if you ask that question, I would probably stop and say, do you not think you're on the right path right now?
	You know, I would make you say something to get deeper into it.
	But we would allow you to get that answer.
	And I know my friends on your side, I know who would come through.
	I have different entities that have different names I call them.
	And they'll come through and they would probably say, they'd probably ask the same question back or say, look into yourself.
	What do you see?
	See, it's a different level of tool now.
	It's not just finding out about something that died or although I've did a lot of that and I can still do a lot of that.
	But it's more about now looking into yourself and understanding what you're doing here.
	But that's almost like the psychologist thing.
	That's your psychological training, isn't it?
	You know, the psychologist sits there and says, so hey, you see it in movies.
	So how was your relationship with your mother?
	And you ponder the question, or they'll ask, how do you think that I related to my family in my early life?
	And you say, how do you think you related to your mother?
	So actually, it is psychology at work, isn't it?
	It's just a different dimension of psychology.
	It absolutely is.
	And that's what they taught me to do.
	The book I wrote that we mentioned in the beginning, The Spirit of Creativity, Embodying Your Soul's Passion, that book was written with the help of my board.
	Right.
	And I want to get into that because I've never read it.
	I'm sure maybe there's been some great composer in the past who might have used this or something, but I can't really recall.
	There are.
	Okay.
	Well, you've answered my question, but I can't really, I haven't heard of anybody writing a book that's been guided by a Ouija board.
	So you've got to tell me that story.
	I will.
	Well, let me say, like, for example, a lot of your listeners, I guarantee in California know this.
	Jane Roberts, who has now passed over, she channeled all of her Seth series books from the Ouija board.
	But excuse me, a backup.
	She started with the Ouija board and the spirit Seth told her, you don't need the Ouija board anymore.
	And she started channeling it herself through her body.
	So that's something she did.
	She transitioned.
	There's other people who have done similar things on different levels.
	What I did, because of my, again, the therapy part, I was writing this book.
	I started writing it and I was doing Ouija about every other week.
	We'd set up sessions.
	The board would say, come back in two weeks or come or let's meet next Tuesday at four o'clock.
	It would give me some time because it had to do with the energies of the earth, energy of the moon, the alignments of the planets.
	It was so connected to astrologically as well.
	It was just really interesting and the vibration That was going on where I was living at the time.
	Very fascinating things.
	And so I said, I'm writing a book about creativity.
	It's about creativity in terms of not just being a great artist.
	It's really about being who you're supposed to be and expressing that into the world, expressing your potentialities in the world, because we all have this creative spark within ourselves.
	We just need to tap into it.
	And next thing you know, you're living your life on purpose.
	So Luigi said, great, great, great conversation.
	Great, great topic.
	Let's do it.
	And so I would write these outlines and I'd come back and Luigi would say, hey, take this topic and add, think about this now, go deeper with it.
	And let's talk about depression.
	And let's talk about depression in another way.
	Think about these clients you work with.
	It would say things like that to me.
	And then I go, oh, okay, right.
	I use that technique and then I come back and write it.
	But the mind is a wonderful thing.
	Sorry to interrupt.
	The mind is an amazing thing.
	I've sat in sessions where I've watched people who've claimed to be channeling Ascended Masters, higher spirits.
	And I've come out of them sometimes thinking, I actually think, even though that person who's channeling doesn't know it, but that information is just simply coming from a higher part of their brain that they don't even know exists.
	Sure.
	And you know what?
	Again, I say, if it is great, how great is that to tap into something like that that can allow you to have clarity in your life?
	I don't believe that because I've been able to look up and research a lot of these things and been able to follow like addresses I've given or names and done some research.
	Now, I will tell you this, though, I use the Ouija board to talk to the people's higher selves, just like you just said.
	So for example, I was sitting here with one of my partners who does this with me and you said to me, Howard says to me, I'm open to you speaking to my higher self or my higher guides, which is a part of yourself, extension of yourself.
	And you gave me permission, then we could talk to that part of you.
	But you have to.
	You have to enable it, though.
	You have to enable that.
	You have to enable it.
	And it's a free will.
	You could say, well, I don't care to know that about me.
	And it wouldn't come out because your higher self knows what's able to come out and not able to come out.
	What's okay, what you're comfortable with, and what you're not.
	So it's not like you can't spy on people.
	And even these spirits can either.
	Because, again, there's a free will that's just a given that surrounds just our energy of who we are without even speaking of it.
	And what about you, Karen?
	If this was computing, you would be a super user.
	Can you spy on people?
	No, I can't.
	Absolutely not.
	No.
	Glad to hear it.
	That's funny, though.
	But you know, but I guess somebody could sit here with me and we can do the board and something might come out, but it's always what that person's ready or able to hear, but maybe they didn't really quite state it, but yet they know they're ready to talk about it.
	Something could come out, such as maybe a lack of self-esteem.
	You may not ever guess that about a person that's come to me, but yet that might come out and it would come out in so many words and that person would go, oh my God, I've been feeling really terrible about myself, about this in my life, and not really being able to verbalize that, but now they can verbalize because of what came out in the board.
	I didn't spy on them.
	It was that their soul was ready to share that and their spirit guys were going to help bring that forth.
	And you using this, we'll get back to the book in a moment.
	You using this technique over the years.
	We all in our lives have things that we want.
	We want to pass exams.
	We want to achieve things.
	We want to do things.
	We want to get things.
	Have you used it for those ends?
	To get things, no.
	When you say to get like physical items, no.
	Well, do you mean to get the information that would enable you to get those things or do those things?
	Well, okay.
	It's part of my spiritual development, yes.
	So therefore, the more I develop spiritually, the more open I am to allowing things to flow within my life.
	So yes, it's opened me up incredibly to some profound levels within myself and also my understanding of what occurs outside of consciousness.
	It's shared with me, when I say it, the spirit guys on your side have shared with me in great depth about before life, pre-life, reincarnation, other existences, other levels of consciousness, protection, like some of the concepts in the book.
	So yes, I guess in that sense, I use it to get those high items, if you want to call it that.
	I use it as a spiritual developmental tool to help with clarification, validation, and guidance in a loose sense.
	It doesn't guide me telling what to do every day or even one day.
	It just will help me stay on my path as another tool.
	Karen, you mentioned, I don't want to lose this.
	You mentioned reincarnation.
	From what you've seen, you believe that reincarnation exists, that people come back?
	Absolutely.
	Absolutely.
	And what examples have you seen that have shown you that?
	Real people?
	Well, some of these entities on the other side have spoken about other lives they have had and other lives that I've had with them together.
	But okay, then again, let's go back into my training.
	I'm also a hypnotherapist.
	I used to do past life regressions.
	I still mess around with that sometimes, but I also underwent a lot of past life regressions myself.
	So I come to the board with all these other tools that I've experienced outside of the board.
	And the board has spoken to me about some things I hadn't even really looked at, such as I've shared before with other people that I've spoken to a fetus in the womb.
	That's something that has not been born, but that fetus did say it had been together with the mother in another life.
	And when you did that, I did hear the interview where you talked about communicating with the fetus in the womb.
	And I wondered what permissions you'd got from the mother for that.
	Presumably that person did it fully compliantly.
	Yeah, the mother came to a friend of mine who was actually in a few states over.
	And for example, okay, these people were in Texas and I was in Oregon and up there in Portland area.
	This is a while back.
	And my friends knew, I did Ouija.
	And she said, you know, there's this gal I know and she really would like to understand.
	She's struggling with herself becoming a mother and really want to understand she's going to be a good mother, you know.
	And this gal had unbeknownst at the time, had gone through a lot of extreme stuff in her childhood, a lot of abuse, just post-semitic stress disorder kinds of things.
	Again, that kind of extreme abuse and was a cutter, just was not very good to herself.
	So here she was pregnant with her boyfriend at the time, which they got married later on.
	I found out.
	so she was pregnant and wondering, Am I going to damage this child?
	Am I going to, because of my negative thoughts about myself?
	It might be a good mother.
	Now, I don't know all of this.
	I know a piece of it that she's struggling.
	And so she said, I give permission to your friend who can speak to the other side.
	If she could speak to my unborn child, I'd be happy to listen.
	That's how it went about.
	So the permission was there.
	So we tapped into it.
	And then, of course, the permission of the fias was right there too.
	And it could communicate to us because it had other entities on the other side.
	I have guides that come in and will help them communicate.
	So we're speaking the same language.
	And so that's how it went about.
	There was permission over there, several states away, and there's permission from the person.
	And she felt like if her fias was okay with that too, there was permission there.
	And what did the fetus, just briefly, what did the fetus tell you?
	Well, the fetus said, you know, I chose this, this, my mother, to be my mother because she's going to be a fabulous mother.
	We've been together before in another life, other incarnation, and we are to be together again.
	Please trust yourself.
	Trust me.
	Trust yourself that I chose you because you are a good person.
	You will be a good mother and you are a good mother right now.
	It was really like this child.
	It wasn't a child.
	It was a fetus at the time.
	But it was a soul that was coming in and out of the fetus.
	It wasn't staying in the fetus in the womb.
	And this is what I learned from this experience and also some other things that they told me about the other side, that it was coming in and out.
	It was deciding.
	And at that point, it decided, it was like the second trimester.
	It was going to stay.
	But it was hovering around.
	And when I say hover around, the energy was around the mother, not just in the womb, but around her.
	It was around her before she got pregnant to say, I want to come into your life.
	And that was why it was the soul that was able to come into the spheres when it became, when it was born, actually, was that.
	It did tell us it was going to be a boy too.
	And that was confirmed when it was born.
	And do you believe that fate or some guiding power would have prevented you from doing that exercise had the knowledge that had been passed to you not been so good?
	In other words, if the fetus had said, I'm going to live a terrible life.
	This is such a disaster.
	Well, I would have a responsibility then to not share that.
	Do you do that?
	Do you withhold information?
	I've had that experience.
	What I find has been something, yeah, I have not had that experience on that level.
	Years ago, I did when I didn't protect.
	When I protect, what I find is what comes through is everything to help support the person, to not take them down.
	So if there's information of something, something's going to happen, like let's say that baby was going to be born with Sid's sudden infant death syndrome, right?
	It was going to die in the crib.
	It would not have said that.
	What it would have said was, I chose you to be with you, and the time we have together is going to be precious.
	That's what it probably would have said, as opposed to, I'm going to die after 10 days of being born.
	Right.
	Well, it's good to know that there's that safeguard in place because it is a powerful tool, isn't it?
	It's a powerful, powerful tool.
	Talk to people from the heart.
	And when you speak to energies from the heart, when you come to that space, it's all about promoting heart, love, wisdom.
	And I know it sounds like airy fairy stuff, but it truly is not.
	It's so grounded in everything we do.
	When we come from the heart and that space of, I'm just being and doing the best I can.
	That's all I can do.
	And this person is too.
	There's a forgiveness.
	And that forgiveness allows everybody to be human.
	And there's a real authenticity or authentic self that comes out of that.
	And saying with the energies.
	They want to come.
	That's all they space they can come from.
	Karen, do you believe that, I don't know why I'm asking you this question, but I just felt that I should.
	Do you believe that the end of all things is good?
	In other words, you hear people say that in the scale of things, even though bad things happen to people, the end of it is always right.
	Dictators always fall.
	No matter how many people die under their regime, they will always, you know, Saddam Hussein, you name whoever it might be, they always come to a sticky end.
	Do you believe that the ultimate end of everything cosmically is good?
	I believe the ultimate end of everything.
	You're talking about a situation is what it is.
	I'm not going to judge it.
	It is what it is based on people's karmic ties to that situation.
	So who am I to judge that somebody ended up in a bad situation in this life?
	Okay, let's say their husband left them.
	They lost their money, had to start their life over again.
	Who am I to judge that?
	Poor you?
	Instead, I would look at what is it you think in your life that you can change?
	Or what is it in your life that might have helped contribute to that?
	Or how about in your past, maybe there was a flip reversal of that?
	I mean, that's pretty easy, simplistic way of saying it.
	But I do believe there's a reason for everything.
	I like to say it that way.
	Everything is a cause and effect and a reason.
	And things happen because like attracts like.
	And as we evolve, we attract that to us, which helps us evolve and grow.
	Do you believe that people find themselves in the same situations repeating over and over again because until they get it right, until they get the point?
	Until they get what you call it the message, until they get that inherent message?
	I'm asking this for a reason.
	In my life, I've had a few professional situations that I've learned from and you find yourself being put back in the same situation until you do learn.
	Yeah, exactly.
	Me too.
	I've experienced quite a few, and I might be thick in the skull sometimes.
	I'm like, oh my God, I'm repeating that again.
	It's just another chapter, but the same story.
	Now, got to be very serious.
	When I first came into broadcasting in the UK, which is a couple of decades ago, there were very thick rule books.
	In fact, there are still very thick rule books about what you can and cannot discuss on air, on radio.
	And I believe that one of the banned subjects in those days was Ouija boards.
	In broadcast radio, we were not allowed to talk about that kind of thing.
	There were many things that we were not allowed to talk about in those days.
	And certainly when I've gone on air and talked about anything to do with the unexplained, we always have to go on radio and put a disclaimer at the beginning saying that this is offered to you for entertainment purposes only.
	Whenever I've had, I've done serious subjects, scientists who've investigated 9-11 and that kind of stuff.
	But I've also put psychics and mediums and people like that on the air.
	And we've always had to go and put the disclaimer out there to say, This is for entertainment purposes only.
	In other words, do not take it too seriously.
	And I always used to add the caveat at the end of a show: please don't live your life by this stuff.
	If you get something useful out of it, great, but please don't think it's the be-all and end-all of everything.
	The reason I'm going on this long rambling spiel is just to say that we have to be very, very careful what we advise people to do.
	There are many people in this country particularly, and in many other countries of the world, I'm sure, who will say that you should not go anywhere near a Ouija board because of the downsides of getting it wrong.
	You are very focused.
	I can hear that coming through the connection, but other people are not that focused and they may well have a calamity.
	What do you have to say to people about that?
	I 100% agree with everything you said.
	In fact, that's a disclaimer I have in my book because professing to have advice to give people, and that's why I said I won't own that for somebody, professing to have advice for somebody and that this is a panacea end all or the answer is incorrect, absolutely incorrect.
	It is not.
	That's the negative flip side of Ouija when you start thinking that is the answers.
	It's not.
	It's a tool, a tool that you must know how to use as you use your computer, as you use your phone.
	It's a tool for communication, just communicating to a different level than we might on our phones.
	I have to tell you that I would not, you know, we had that one when I was a little kid, but I would not go out and buy one and mess with it because I am not convinced that I could have your focus.
	So I'm not going to do that, but I would do it if I was guided by somebody else like you.
	But I personally wouldn't do it.
	It's nothing to be messed around with.
	And I don't even suggest anybody go out and use it.
	And I say if you are afraid of it and there's any kind of trepidation that gives you some concern, do not use the Ouija.
	They're absolutely correct because again, like attracts like.
	And fears, this is not the only way to get this information.
	In fact, the Ouija has told me many times, you don't need to use this tool.
	And it's true.
	If I sit here and meditate and get in my own space, I can get the same answers I can get on the board.
	And now, but not necessarily talk to ghosts and stuff, although they appear and I can feel them and hear them and stuff of that nature.
	But again, it's a tool.
	I can put that tool away and I can still come to some of those same conclusions.
	Well, I live and have lived my life on a very instinctive level.
	Sometimes I know things that I've got no right to know.
	I just sense things about people and situations and all the rest of it.
	And that's how I've lived.
	From what you've just said, and I would never have thought this, what you do with the Ouija board is much the same as that.
	It is.
	It's exactly what I do at the Ouija board now.
	And for the past 20, let me see, the past about 25 years.
	It was the first 15 I didn't really quite know how to use it.
	And after that experience, it was the last 25 years that I got a grip on this and understood there was so much more than it really is touted to be.
	And there is no fear, although anybody could be afraid of using any kind of tool or device and don't use it.
	Just put it away.
	Don't do it.
	Don't use it.
	I don't think you can say fairer than that.
	Got to bring you back to the book.
	It's only fair at the end of this that we give you a chance to just give a quick description of what it's for and anything else you'd like to say about the book.
	Let's do that now.
	Oh, thank you.
	Okay.
	Well, my book was published just last fall and it's called The Spirit of Creativity, Embodying Your Soul's Passion.
	And it is about this passion concepts we were talking about.
	I don't mention the Ouija in it, although I do say ingratitude of spirit.
	I call my friends spirit.
	And so that's ingratitude of my spirit friends who were with me as I wrote that book and helped me go deeper into my thoughts and my experiences with my clients.
	So the book was written basically about how to live a more creative, proactive, potential life that you want to live.
	Live the life of your dreams is what that book will teach you to do in a very succinct way.
	And so as I worked with clients, I found all these techniques and tools that I used on myself.
	Now, interesting thing about this book, this book was actually written 15 years before it was published.
	And that's because I went through a dark night of my soul, a time when things really fell apart for me.
	And I just could not get the book out and into publishers' hands.
	You wanted it to or you didn't have the confidence to do it?
	I can't imagine you wouldn't have the confidence to, but you wanted it out there, but it just, you couldn't get it out there.
	I couldn't because the life had changed for me profoundly.
	And I realized I had to rebuild my life and what I thought about life should be.
	And so what I did was I used all those techniques in that book.
	I went through it step by step and other types of expressive thing.
	I'm an artist too, other kinds of expressive things that the book is about and self-hypnosis.
	Went through that step by step and emerged on the other end as if I wrote it and worked it myself as if I was the client.
	I was the client using my own book.
	Physician, heal thyself.
	That's what it was.
	And the book was not able to come out until I did that process.
	And when I did that process, life changed for me in grand, great ways.
	The money was there.
	The friends were there.
	The lifestyle was there.
	The work, the creativity, and being in this place of really valuing myself.
	God, Karen, I need this book by the sounds of it.
	I think you do.
	All right, now listen.
	It's on Amazon.com under my name, Karen A. Dahlman.
	And it's also on Kindle.
	You can get it on Kindle or as a book.
	And it's a nice pocketbook you can read.
	And I say pocketbook, I mean you could read it in a few hours because it's written in a very easy language.
	And just remember that the Ouija really helped me deepen some of those concepts in there that do go to other levels of the way you might think about things in your life.
	And it pushed me to do that.
	And it pushed me to do that for myself, which was beautiful.
	And if people want to find out about you, have you got a website they can take a look at?
	Well, no, I don't.
	But I'll tell you what I have.
	It's in my Facebook.
	And that is under Karen A. Dahlman.
	You can find me there and you can join me.
	And I have a Facebook page there too for my book.
	And I announce when I'm on different shows or what's coming up next.
	And I am working on another book right now about the alchemical woman.
	It's really about alchemy, how women can transform themselves into the queen that they're supposed to be.
	And I'm also writing a book about the other side on my Ouija experiences and really helping people understand the positive uses of it, as well as how to even not use it and progress yourself into understanding what's out there beyond our physical incarnate our physical body and self.
	Two more reasons to reconnect at some point, Karen.
	I've really enjoyed this conversation and this digital connection to Southern California that's been so rock solid all the way through our conversation here.
	Seriously, at some point, I'm talking to you as the guy who once got permission from the UK broadcast authorities to do the first live seance on air in the UK.
	We had to go through some bureaucracy to be allowed to do it.
	And we weren't allowed to actually broadcast the procedure, but we were able to broadcast the result of it.
	I would be very keen to try and do this with you and report back to my listeners what happened there.
	I think that's important.
	But we'll do it in a professional way.
	It's not going to be a gee whiz show.
	So if you're up for that, as you said you were, so am I. I am absolutely up for that, Howard.
	And I think it's great.
	It goes right along with what I'm doing with this board.
	And I really want people to understand that my message is not really about the Ouija.
	It's not about my books.
	The message is that life is so grand and global, a lot larger than we think it is.
	And all we need to do is open up to the experience of other things that we would never think outside of our own box exist.
	And when you do that, life transforms and changes for us in the most profound ways.
	Great message to leave people with, Karen.
	Karen Dahlman, thank you very much indeed.
	Thank you, Howard.
	Well, pretty thought-provoking stuff.
	What do you think from Karen Dahlman there in Southern California?
	As she said, she doesn't have a website, but you can connect with her through Facebook.
	That's the way that she likes to do that.
	I'm sure she will have a website sometime pretty soon and sounds like a busy lady writing two books.
	We will reconnect with her.
	And I did find that very thought-provoking, as I said.
	Thank you very much to Adam Cornwell, my webmaster at Creative Hotspot in Liverpool, for number one, getting the show out to you, which he does so well, and also for updating, devising, creating, and keeping our website on track.
	If you're listening to this show through any kind of device, please go to the website, www.theunexplained.tv.
	You can leave me feedback there or if you'd like to make a donation to the show.
	We've got more great shows coming soon here on The Unexplained.
	Please keep the faith.
	Please keep supporting the show.
	I wish you well in everything you do.
	My name is Howard Hughes in London.

▲