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Sept. 10, 2010 - The Unexplained - Howard Hughes

01:10:32

Edition 43 - Malcolm Robinson

This show features Scottish Paranormal writer and investigator Malcolm Robinson. Hear astaggering tale of claimed alien aduction, some amazing UFO stories and very chilling ghost revelations- all told with passion and credibility.

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	Across the UK, across continental North America and around the world on the internet completely independently by webcast and podcast, my name is Howard Hughes and this is The Unexplained.
	Thank you for returning to my show and thank you for making this the most amazing month that I think we've had on the site.
	And with downloads of the show, my webmaster Adam Cornwell and I sat together in a little cafe in London yesterday, going through some statistics, looking at what they call the analytics for the site and also details of downloads.
	And it seems that we have amazing response now to the show.
	And that's all down to you telling your friends.
	To those of you who've linked to the site, thank you very much and thank you for the continuing feedback.
	It now seems that we've achieved something that I wanted to achieve with this show right from the start.
	We seem to have made, boy, should I call it a breakthrough?
	Maybe it is, maybe it isn't, a breakthrough in the United States.
	I've always felt all my life being born in Liverpool and because it's a maritime place with connections to the sea and I had relatives who went across the ocean to work.
	I even had, my goodness, my grandfather, who the story goes, jumped ship in New York, was working at sea like so many people in Liverpool did.
	So many people had to.
	Liverpool's still a great maritime city, but the word is that as a boy of 18, this is a long, long time ago, many decades back, he jumped ship in the U.S. and disappeared for a while, experiencing life there.
	And I think I got my love of America from him.
	But I always had this kind of affinity with California that I've never quite understood.
	And I don't think it's anything to do with watching lots of movies made there.
	That's not it, I don't think.
	But ever since I was a small child, maybe three years of age, I seemed to know things about California that I couldn't possibly have known.
	And when I went to California for the first time in my life, what, 10 years or so ago, I felt that there were places I knew already.
	You may have heard stories like this before.
	I'm very skeptical always about them.
	But I did feel that when I went to places like Santa Monica, I'd been there before.
	And when I walked along, oh boy, Venice Beach, I felt that I'd been there too.
	It was just too familiar.
	And as I say, I don't think it comes from the movies and TV shows that I grew up on, like all of us up here in the Northern Hemisphere did.
	I think there was more to it than that.
	But I can't be sure, and none of us ever can be.
	But it's an interesting thing.
	But I am delighted that, according to Adam, 40% or thereabouts of listening to this show and visits to the website now come from the USA.
	And I want to get that number up.
	That's not to say that we're neglecting our audience in the UK because that's terribly important.
	In a way, I wanted this show to bring together people both sides of the Atlantic and around the world.
	We're united by one thing.
	Two things, actually, to be exact.
	One thing is our interest in these subjects, and we want to hear programs about them done properly in this non-commercial way.
	And also, of course, we're united by the English language, which, as I discussed with Michael Telliger in South Africa, we do speak differently around the world.
	Some phrases and words we have are different, like in South Africa they say, is it, meaning they're interested in what you're saying, which they don't say up here in the north.
	There are many other phrases like that, and there are variants of Indian English, which I heard a fascinating radio program on a while back.
	But the fact is, we're united by this language that spans the globe in this way.
	And that, to me, will always be a fascination.
	Now, as I say, it's been an incredible month, and I've got a list knocking around somewhere here of just a few of the people who've emailed.
	And this is just a tiny, tiny sampling of the emails.
	People like James and Sandy and Mike and Saleem, who had a great suggestion for the show.
	Salim, I'm going to get on to this.
	It's the case of a multiple murderer.
	Fascinating case, the case of Jack the Ripper, very famous in London and in the UK a long, long time ago.
	But I'm thinking of broadening it out also and talking about serial killers again, if I can get a guest on who I had on the radio show, who's always good value and always fascinating.
	So Celine, thank you for that.
	Ed, thank you for your emails.
	Gavin, thank you for yours.
	And also thank you very much for the vital donations that I'm continuing to receive from wonderful people, people like Dan Yell in the US, people I've never met and who feel that this show does something for them, stirs a chord with them, chimes somewhere with them, and they feel they want to help.
	I'm going to say this briefly because I know I always say it and the last thing I want to do is become boring about it.
	But this show is entirely independent.
	It is produced on a tiny, tiny scale.
	There is me here in London recording shows, finding guests and doing them in the best way that I can, journalistically, I hope.
	There's Adam Cornwell in Liverpool with his company Creative Hotspot who get the show out to you.
	And that's us.
	How many shows like this, done like this, are produced by so few people, have so few people involved?
	There are no middlemen, no agents or managers or media conglomerates or anything like that in between me at this microphone and you wherever you are around the world.
	That, I think, is the way things are going.
	This is entirely independent.
	You know, there's a place for big radio and big corporations, and I have worked and do work for them, and they do a great job, and they're very cost-effective.
	But there is also a place for smaller outlets, pioneering new types of programming and maybe programming that wouldn't make the mainstream because executives don't think that it is the kind of thing listeners want to hear or they fear it may not be viable or there may be all kinds of reasons that we don't even know about why a lot of shows in most parts of the world like this one don't actually get on the radio.
	So we now have the internet and this is our conduit for doing this.
	Very good reaction to the last few shows.
	Do catch them if you haven't.
	42 Scott Stevens with his amazing but very hard to take in unless you think about them considerably and maybe actually you have to do what I did.
	I had to listen to the interview a couple of times before I got it.
	But his theories about weather manipulation, Scott Stevens appeared with me on radio a few times in the UK and I was fascinated by him.
	We did a few hours together on radio over the years up to about 2005, 2006 and then he disappeared and now he suddenly reappeared.
	So edition 42 worth hearing.
	Very good response about Michael Tellinger who is Now in the United States, promoting his books and theories.
	South African Michael Tellinger, his work about who we are as human beings, where we came from, and who really calls the shots in what we call civilization.
	Great, I find his work.
	And Michael Horne from the Billy Meyer Prophecies, Controversial Guest, the previous show that was edition 40.
	I found that very mind-expanding.
	I'm still not sure whether any of it is true.
	And as we all said at the time, and as some of you said to me on email, this may well be the greatest hoax there's ever been.
	But there is a possibility, and none of us can statistically measure how big that possibility is.
	It's the truth.
	And if it is the truth, boy, we have to look very seriously into ourselves.
	That's why I do this show.
	Please keep in touch with the show.
	You can email me through the website at www.theunexplained.tv.
	Nearly forgot my own email address then, www.theunexplained.tv.
	You can email me directly if you need to, but I prefer if you go through the website.
	It's unexplainedh at yahoo.co.uk.
	And vitally, the donations for this show.
	I've said it's independent.
	I've said there are very few of us involved in this.
	And in order for me to be able to keep this going, I need to get your donations.
	One thing I talked about before is silly example, but I have a computer that I produce this show on, which I've had running.
	It's a very good one.
	It's a Basony Vio.
	But it is seven years old now, and it is very, very old.
	It's almost geriatric in computer terms.
	I don't actually think it knows how old it is, and I'm certainly not going to tell it.
	But it won't go on forever.
	And it's running an operating system that is now out of date.
	It will need to be replaced, and the replacement won't cost as much as the original Sony Vio did, but I have to be able to pay for that replacement, otherwise the show doesn't go on.
	That's how it all works.
	You know, it's quite boring, and it's quite mundane, but that's a fact.
	So that's why I need your donations, and that's how they get used.
	You can make a donation to this show through the website, www.theunexplained.tv.
	This time round, somebody who approached me by email, and I did a bit of research on him, and he's quite prolific in his work, been on many TV and radio shows, written some books.
	He's based in Scotland.
	His name is Malcolm Robinson, and he is the founder of Strange Phenomena Investigations, which he's been running since 1979, which shockingly for me is 31 years ago.
	And he's still going strong, that going stronger by the looks of it.
	He's got a couple of books out that we're going to try and talk about.
	One, the new one, is about paranormal UK, paranormal Britain, and the other one is about UFOs, specifically, I understand, in Scotland.
	So I just looked at his CV, his resume, as you say, in the States, and felt that it might be good to get him on, which is exactly what we're about to do.
	Crossing to Scotland, as we go into autumn time here in the Northern Hemisphere and online to the Unexplained is Malcolm Robinson, the founder of Strange Phenomena Investigations.
	Malcolm, thank you for coming on.
	It's a pleasure.
	Now, Malcolm, I'm always fascinated by people like yourself, who I hear from, who I don't actually go out there and find.
	Just out of interest, how did you hear about us?
	I came across you on the internet.
	There was quite a few references to your show, and obviously that was quite important to me because as a presenter, your good self, always trying to let people like your good self know what we're about and give our information over to you.
	And I guess it's like helping each other in that respect.
	You know, you're doing a valuable service and we're helping you with information for Joe Public.
	But yeah, through the internet.
	Well, it is very hard these days, I find, even though we have a multiplicity of outlets for all kinds of programming, it's very hard to find these subjects treated seriously.
	They're done on television as kind of quick, quick, flash, flash, gee whiz.
	Or you get these shows on the internet, and some of them are very, very, very good.
	And some of them are too accepting and very, oh, really?
	So that's what happened.
	And they don't actually ask questions.
	They just allow people to make statements.
	And that, you know, I don't really go for.
	So just fascinating to know how you got involved with this.
	Now, how is Scotland?
	Yeah, well, I actually moved down from Scotland back in 1998.
	Oh, really?
	So you sold out?
	I sold out, yeah, unfortunately.
	It was a set of circumstances, Howard, that brought me down.
	But I'm living a lovely life down in a lovely little town called Hastings in East Sussex, which is right at the very, very foot of the United Kingdom and only several miles away or so from Eastbourne.
	But yeah, it's a lovely little place.
	It's an old town and it's very antiquated, like Dickens buildings, etc.
	And yes, it's only two or three minutes from the seaside, so I really enjoy it, yeah.
	And what I find, and I love Sussex myself, you know, it's a very special place to me.
	I lived in Brighton for a while and still have to reconnect with Brighton quite often.
	I was there just a few days ago.
	It's very, very important to me.
	I think part of the appeal of where you are and Brighton, places like that, is that you feel a connection with the continent and from there you feel a connection with the rest of the world.
	Does that make sense to you?
	It does.
	I mean, it does to some degree.
	I mean, what I also like about Hastings is all the festivals, you've got the Green Man Festival, an ancient kind of pagan thing where everybody dresses in green.
	Just recently, we had a world record in Hastings.
	I was the world record along with 6,116 pirates.
	We had a massive big pirate day.
	6,000 pirates!
	That's a lot of pirates.
	A lot of pirates, yeah, a lot of pirates.
	A lot of pirates and a lot of parrots on the shoulder, I would say.
	Absolutely, absolutely.
	But it was great.
	And Hastings is just solid over that, yeah.
	Okay, right.
	So that's where you are doing this work.
	I note from the curriculum vitae, as the Americans say, the resume that you sent me, that you've been at this for, compared with many of the guests that I talked to, a very long time.
	It's 31 years now.
	So tell me how all that started, your involvement.
	Yeah, as a very small boy, I grew up initially reading the Pan Book of Ghost Stories, which some of your older listeners may remember as fictionalized accounts of ghosts.
	And from there, I moved on to what was claiming to be true ghost stories.
	And it kind of sparked my mind.
	It really fired up this enthusiasm for all things spooky and stuff.
	But I must admit, at this early stage, I really, really didn't think there was any validity to these claims of ghosts and poltergeists and what have you.
	I just didn't believe it.
	But then in 1979 I formed my own society entitled Strange Phenomena Investigations to physically look very, very closely at all these subjects.
	And you know over the years I've been involved in this subject I've spent many many many nights in haunted houses.
	I've been slapped, had my hair pulled, been kicked by nothing.
	Absolutely nothing.
	Nothing near me.
	And when you get things like that happen to you Howard, that's when, certainly for me, that's when I came off the proverbial sceptical fence.
	First-hand true experiences, seeing, witnessing, smelling, tasting, the whole kit and caboodle.
	I'm not saying, you know, that that's going to be the same for everyone.
	Everyone, I guess, has got to reach their own dimensions for experiences, etc.
	But certainly for me, I mean, what I've seen over the years is just unbelievable.
	Well, this work started in Scotland, and we've had a few Scottish guests on here, some of whom do EVPs and work very hard at doing electronic voice phenomena recordings of those sorts of things.
	Others who are involved in ghosts and even people in Scotland who used to call me on the radio show, there was one guy in particular who told me a story about a cottage that he had lived in and something had banged on the back door.
	And this place was in the middle of nowhere.
	I think it was somewhere in central Scotland.
	And something had banged on the back door and there was nothing there and no one around.
	And it was a terrifying story.
	So I think Scotland has a lot of these things.
	When you were doing those early investigations of phenomena, just give me a little taster.
	What was perhaps the most frightening story?
	Or the most, maybe you're not somebody who gets frightened by these things.
	I don't know if you do, but the most amazing story?
	Yeah, I mean, there's quite a few.
	It goes without saying, over 31 years of research, there's more than one story that I could relate to.
	But I'll give you a couple, for instance, just for your listener's interest.
	One occasion, this lady says, Malcolm, would you like to come to a seance we're doing in Chingford, just outside London?
	And I says, yeah, yeah, by all means.
	So to cut a long story short, I went up to Chingford.
	I met this lady and she invited me to the home.
	She says, we're doing this seance in an upper room upstairs.
	Would you like to come up and ensure that you're happy with it?
	There's no hidden trickery or mechanism.
	I said, yeah, absolutely.
	So I toddled up the stair, checked the walls, hammering on the walls with my hand, kicking the floorboards to see if there were any hidden compartments.
	And I tried as best as I possibly could to ascertain that there were no hidden mechanisms or audio cassette systems running ready to play silly sounds and stuff.
	Or indeed what the stories call accomplices hidden about the place, yeah?
	People wearing dark robes and hiding under the table.
	Absolutely.
	And the actual bedroom itself was devoid of any beds or most furnishings and fittings.
	It was just very limited stuff.
	Now, what happened was that if you can imagine a black cover going from corner of the room to the other corner of the room, just in one corner, there was a plastic chair behind that, and that is where the visiting medium who was coming up in the next half hour was going to sit behind it.
	We were going to strap him to the chair.
	And it's like these old Victorian times when they put the mediums in the cabinets and stuff.
	I don't know if your older listeners may recall that.
	I've seen photographs and certainly drawings of these things, yeah.
	Well, we did the same thing, and there was about six plastic chairs in the back bedroom.
	And we had people come up, sat them down.
	Then the medium came in, I checked his person to make sure there were no hidden devices on him.
	We sat him down, and it wasn't ropes or straps, it was, well, it was Velcro straps that we strapped his wrist and legs to the chair and pulled the curtain tight.
	And I was happy that he was securely tied to that chair.
	And we turned the lights out, and there was a small red ambient light illuminating the sitters in the room.
	And they started to play music in the room, and then there was these little silver bells that were stacked onto the walls.
	And suddenly, it started to tinkle.
	It started to move and tinkle.
	Nobody was near them, absolutely, because I could still see the people in the room.
	And then suddenly it got absolutely terrifically cold.
	Really, really cold.
	That's often a sign that something's going on.
	I've had that too.
	Oh, it is a very, very big sign that something's about to happen.
	And it was so cold.
	If you can imagine, try and imagine if you're lying on a beach in Jamaica and you're swimming chunks and a big hand comes out the sky, lifts you up and throws you into one of those long industrial freezer vans that you see parked outside shops where they hook some meat and closes the door.
	From immediately hot to that, that's how cold it got.
	And then suddenly the small chest of drawers started to float up into the air, rise up into the air and slowly traversed across the room and dropped right on my feet.
	And I just couldn't believe it.
	There was nobody there, absolutely nobody there at all to see this.
	And it's just one of the many things that's happened to me over the years.
	But I've said it would be so, so great to get the likes of the BBC and the ITN networks in there because we all know that David Copperfield, the magician, can make the Statue of Liberty disappear, a Lear Jett disappear.
	It's all tricks and camerangles.
	That obviously is magic, but this, what I saw on that occasion, I have no explanation for it.
	I really haven't.
	Well, when was this?
	Did you tell me when this was?
	I don't think you did.
	This was back, I believe, in 2004.
	So that's very recent.
	This isn't something that's going back into the previous millennium.
	No, absolutely not.
	And it was very scary.
	I mean, it's just something that's happened.
	And that's because, obviously, I'm putting myself in this ballpark.
	I'm going to these places where things allegedly happen.
	So you think, and I'm inferring and deducing from what you're telling me, Malcolm, that something there, perhaps prompted by or certainly allowed by the medium, targeted you because you're open to it?
	It's a possibility.
	I mean, what we do as a research society is we try and find the rational.
	You know, before we look At anything else, we open up as many doors as possible to find out if people are trying to pull the wool over your eyes.
	So, can you be sure that there wasn't some form of levitation can often be done with very, very fine cords?
	Are you sure there was nothing like that?
	I mean, that's that's one way to look at it.
	People, sceptics will always say, and commenters will always say, could it have been pulleys and wires and ropes and hidden threads and some movement?
	I'm convinced, as far as I possibly can be, that there was no mechanisms to make that, because that really did float up in there, that it wasn't just two or three inches.
	Some of this is about how you feel at the time.
	How did you feel about this?
	What was your gut telling you?
	I was very startled, amazed, frightened.
	I was going through all these emotions and I was trying to rationalise it.
	Now, come on, what the hell is going on here?
	There must be something that's making this happen.
	This cannot be real.
	This cannot be spirit.
	It can't be.
	And I'm looking for these wires and pulleys, and there was enough light, your eyes adjusted to the light in the room, to see if anybody says, right, come on, let's fool Malcolm Robinson.
	Get your hands under this chest of drawers, let's move it over.
	Nobody was there, absolutely nobody.
	And whilst this was happening, it was so, so cold in the room.
	And your breath was actually, you know, you could see your breath in the air.
	It really was shocking.
	And the thing is, you know, if we had have captured that on videotape and showed it to Joe Public, would they have believed it?
	Because, Howard, we're living in the Steven Spielberg age of DreamWorks laboratory where anything can be manipulated onto a computer screen to say, wow, look at this.
	It's all just trickery.
	But thankfully, that same technology can be applied to see if it's a model UFO hanging from a very thin wire from a tree or if it's a ghost, you know, all these type of things.
	And were you using any technology there, or were you just simply experiencing the thing in Chingford?
	Yeah, I mean, I regret that now, in the sense that when I got that invitation, it was more or less short notice, and we didn't have time to bring bits and bobs along, which we would have liked to have done.
	And since then, when I submitted my report to our magazine Enigmas at the time, Miriam was none too happy about certain things that I'd said in my write-up, which I'm surprised at.
	And she refused to have anything more to do with me.
	So it kind of backfired on me.
	It's a shame because it was a good one now.
	Well, it certainly sounds it, but you have to, as many of these great investigations, you have to leave the book open.
	And perhaps at some point, since it isn't that many years ago, you might get more information that might help you to make a decision as to what exactly this thing was and how this thing came about.
	We were talking about Scotland.
	You are Scottish.
	You started your work in Scotland and moved down here to the southeast of England comparatively recently.
	Anything from Scotland?
	Because we, certainly my American listeners, and a lot of us down here as well who don't go to Scotland that often have this view of Scotland being haunted castles and lawn pipers on the ramparts and tunes of glory and all of that stuff.
	Yeah.
	Yeah, I mean, it's a wonderful country.
	And I'm not just saying it because I'm Scottish.
	I'm sure a lot of your American listeners have probably been and visited it in my country.
	It's very, very rich.
	It's a rich tapestry of ghostly and paranormal phenomena.
	It is a land that's steeped in history.
	We have a number of battlefields, of course, in Scotland, which allegedly have these ghosts on the moors, as you refer to them.
	Well, the biggest one is Clodden, isn't it?
	Absolutely.
	And, you know, well, as they say down in the southeast of Indian Culloden, but I think they're wrong.
	I'm not Scottish.
	I've got a little bit of Scottish blood, but I think they're wrong.
	Have you been to Clawden?
	I have been to Culloden, yeah.
	I mean, I've been around about four or five times, and it's very, very mysterious and very moody.
	When you go there, it's a massive, massive big, lots of fields, you know, and there are lots of gravestone markers there where the various armies had fell and died and stuff.
	And there's a big memorial there, of course.
	But it's very bleak.
	They say it's like Guilfich in the sense that there's no birdsong and stuff.
	That there must be something impregnated into the very, very fabric of the landscape that conditions people.
	And that's the funny thing because some people, when they're there, they'll see strange things.
	They'll maybe see strange soldiers on the moors and other people will not.
	You could have five people looking at this image and only two will see it.
	And I've often said, Howard, you know, is it perhaps the more psychic one is, the more potential I guess you have to see something.
	But what is it do you think, and I've often wondered about this as you have, Malcolm, what is it do you think opens the portal?
	Why are some of us, and I think I am, you certainly sound like you are, why are some of us more susceptible to these things and affected by these things than others?
	Well, I mean, everybody will probably give you a different answer as far as researchers go.
	For me personally, I do honestly believe that there is, if the more psychic you are, if you're maybe born with some form of psychic ability or psychic awareness, then you're definitely, definitely, for me personally, more chance of seeing something.
	I mean, I wouldn't class myself as psychic myself, although, as I said earlier, I've been hit on investigations and a whole range of strange things has happened to me.
	And maybe that's again, like I said, it's because I put myself in the ballpark.
	But what we have to bear in mind is that ghosts are not so cut and dried.
	Now, what I mean by that, Howard, is that you've got ghosts that are aware of you, ghosts that are not aware of you, ghosts that will walk through walls, ghosts that will stop at maybe a table and move round it.
	You've got crisis ghosts, the stone tape theory, which maybe is something akin to what I was saying about Culloden, and what the stone, excuse me, the stone tape theory is.
	It's like, I mean, first and foremost, Howard, have you ever walked into one of your family or friends' houses and they meet you at the door and they're all happy and cheery and you go in and you just sense an atmosphere, you just know they've been arguing, something's in there.
	Yeah, once or twice.
	Well, I mean, some of the buildings that we've researched, there was a case in Wales.
	There was a haunted pub in Wales in Kenfig in Wales.
	And these researchers decided to put electron microscope type of things into the very fabric of this old stone pub.
	And They pressed record and they left it.
	They locked up the room and they went away for the night.
	The following morning, when they came to that pub and rewind the tape and pressed play, they got the clinking of glasses, the sound of merriment, laughter, and an old organ that used to actually physically reside in that building.
	It was playing away and there was nothing there.
	It was an empty room, you know.
	So it's like as if strong emotions or certain things have impregnated into the very fabric of the building.
	And it's like some psychics will hold someone's anniversary ring or a medal or a stone and they'll hold it very gently and calmly in their hands and they can tell you all about that person.
	So it's such a mixture of various possibilities when we look at ghosts, you know.
	Yeah, you were talking about psychometry there where a medium or somebody who's connected can hold an object that belongs to you.
	I've had it done a couple of times actually and once with some success, once without success, but once with some success with a watch, something that's been on your person all the time.
	So that's all fascinating.
	I think the ghosts that are the most interesting are the ones that, as you say, there are the ones who are just simply imprinted on wherever it is.
	And there are those that can communicate with you.
	Have you had experiences of something, some entity that's been able to make contact with you?
	That's a very, very good point.
	I'm just trying to remember if that has been the case.
	Depends if you mean contact.
	If they have physically tried to speak to me, then the answer to that one is certainly no.
	I mean, we were working on a case in Sterling, in the town of Sterling in central Scotland, and there was this big haunted bedroom.
	The lady of the house had begun that terrible, terrible things happen.
	The movement of objects in the home, temperature drops, television switching on and off, lights going on and off.
	And a lot of strange stuff did happen in this bedroom.
	So we were there, and the medium said to me, Malcolm, don't you feel spirit in this room?
	Don't you just feel it?
	It's everywhere.
	And I said, well, not really.
	Because at that time I wasn't that gifted in bringing up the psychic stuff myself.
	She says, look, stand over there.
	Just stand over there away from the rest of us and outstretch your arm.
	Do it, just do it.
	So I stood at the other end of the room.
	I put my arm out and I said, okay, if there is anybody from spirit side here tonight, kindly touch the back of my hand, please.
	One minute went by, nothing.
	Two minutes, nothing.
	This is silly, I'm saying to myself, this is crazy.
	Three minutes, nothing.
	Then on the fourth minute, a tremendous pressure was exerted and pushed onto the back of my hand and it thrust.
	It thrust my whole arm right against my side.
	Now it wasn't unconscious muscular movement because if you put your hand out in front of you, your hand will twitch very, very gently.
	It was nothing like that.
	This was a very, very strong and powerful force.
	And we were working in another case in a haunted house.
	We had the videotape cameras going this time, infrared cameras, and nothing was happening.
	We were all in darkness.
	We always work in darkness.
	And at times like this, a question, oh God, why do I get involved?
	And no sooner had I said this, why do I get involved in this stuff, nothing happens?
	Suddenly, the whole room illuminated in tiny, thousands and thousands of tiny pinpricks of white light, like a November the 5th handheld sparkler that you get over here in the United Kingdom.
	These handheld sparklers that kids throw about at November the 5th.
	All these lights were all over the walls, the ceiling, your clothes, all over the carpet.
	And around about 27 seconds later, it was like a dimmer switch on your wall, just turn, turn, turn, turn.
	And suddenly they just melted away and the room was enveloped into blackness.
	And we reached for the VCR recorders, press stop, press rewind, press play, and we didn't get it.
	We never caught that fantastic light shot.
	But you all saw it.
	We did, yeah.
	And it's a nice story probably for your listeners, but how, how?
	I wish your listeners had seen this themselves.
	It was incredible.
	Was there a medium with you at the time, did you say?
	Yeah, absolutely.
	We always work with psychic mediums to see if they can, you know, I know it sounds corny and stuff, but to contact the other side for want of a better word.
	And the ones we've used over the years in Scotland, Howard, have been absolutely terrific.
	I would not work with what I would call a fourth division medium.
	She's been really, really good.
	I've been trying to get an explanation.
	Maybe you have one, for something that happened to me 20 years ago, easily now.
	My sister recommended that I went to see a medium in North London, which I did.
	And this medium said, I think I have to do a little procedure on you.
	And this woman touched my head.
	And I swear this story is true.
	And I still, you know, maybe to my dying day, I'm never going to know what happened there.
	There we are in this woman's house.
	And it's a very small terraced house in London.
	You know how some of the houses here, made of London brick, very, very small.
	They have a parlour.
	They used to call them parlour, being a little sitting room in the front of the house.
	It's got a fish tank in it.
	It's got a tiny little two-seater sofa.
	And that's about it in there.
	So we're standing in there.
	It's pretty cold.
	And she says, okay, I have to do this.
	Close your eyes.
	She puts her hands on my head.
	And I saw around my head a halo of the intensity of light that you've just been talking about that swirled around my head like a lightsaber from Star Wars.
	It was piercing and it was there for about two minutes.
	And then it, like the light that you saw, simply disappeared.
	I don't think, I was quite young then.
	I don't think, I think I was so shocked.
	I don't think I asked her what that was.
	But I have spent the last two decades or more wondering what happened there.
	I don't know.
	I've never been able to find out.
	I can't remember the medium's name.
	She may not even be alive now.
	But something weird happened there, and I don't know what it was.
	Well, I mean, that's quite similar to just what I mentioned there a moment ago.
	And it had another effect, which again is Probably similar to what you've just said there because we were working on another case, which was, to be honest with you, this really, really was pretty bad.
	This lady was really getting tremendous problems with ghostly manifestations in her house.
	And unbeknown to us, I was in the kitchen with a fellow researcher, and unbeknownst to us, whilst we were in the kitchen, her psychic was administrating healing on this lady by the placing of hands not on her person but above her head to calm her down, because she really was terrified, to calm her down and just administer psychic healing to make her calm down.
	And then we came from the kitchen with some cups of tea.
	We went into the living room, sat down, we started chatting.
	And then suddenly I saw these amazing light show.
	It was like small droplets of, I don't know how to describe it, droplets of water.
	If you had your fist and you pushed your fist into a basin of water or a tub of water, you got all these bubbles coming up.
	That's what it was like, all these bubbles coming up from all around her body.
	Tiny blue aquamarine bubbles.
	And the sun was coming in the window, you know, and the room was lit, etc.
	It wasn't dark.
	And I let out a big girly scream, to be honest with you.
	I think And it was then that the psychic said, oh, yes, whilst you were in the kitchen, I gave this lady some healing.
	So I guess what you're looking at is some form of psychic healing effects.
	So possibly, Howard, maybe, I don't know, but maybe what you had as a young boy, maybe that was what you saw, some form of healing effect.
	I don't know.
	Something like what you've described sounds like something escaping, something being like letting air out of a tyre, letting pressure out of a tyre, the escape of something that you became aware of.
	Yeah, that's a good way to put it, actually.
	Yeah, that's one way to look at it.
	But I mean, I can't keep reiterating enough that even though I do believe in these things, I'm a spiritualist myself, I do believe in life after death, I'll always, always, always, always, always look for rational explanations.
	And if I find people are trying to pull the wool over our eyes or anything, I will shout from the rooftops and get it in the newspaper.
	All right, well, let's turn the tables, literally.
	Have you been in on situations where somebody has tried to pull the wool over your eyes and has tried to commit some kind of psychic fraud?
	That's a good question.
	Again, I'm glad I'm speaking to someone who really knows their stuff.
	Because I do a lot of shows and I like this.
	Believe it or not, and this is absolute gospel.
	No, they haven't.
	They haven't tried to pull the wool over our eyes.
	As far as you know.
	As far as I know, but there are situations, Howard, where we've been dealing with this haunted house, and I'm interviewing the lady in her sitting-room chair.
	So I'll just make up a name here.
	So, Mary, have you had any interest in ghosts before?
	And she'll say, no, no, Mr. Robinson.
	And then I look behind her, Howard.
	It's some bookcase, and it's solid of ghost books.
	So, you know, so in those circumstances, you've got to say to yourself, come on now, what's going on here?
	That's a bit of a giveaway, isn't it?
	You know, first rule should be to put the ghost books away or turn them around or something.
	My God.
	Absolutely.
	I mean, I remember once I gave a lecture in Southampton.
	I was speaking about ghostly photographs.
	And of course, my talks are very highly visual with PowerPoint slides and stuff.
	And I gave my talk, and I came off the stage, and these three elderly ladies came up to me and said, Mr. Robinson, I enjoyed your talk.
	And so did the other three people on the stage with you.
	Pardon?
	I take it, Mr. Robinson, you didn't see them.
	See who?
	Oh, right.
	Okay.
	There were three people from Spirit Side standing on the stage looking at you with their arms folded, just listening to what you had to say.
	I thought that was a lovely wee story, you know.
	Sounded like you were accompanied by the ghostly Bee Gees.
	The interesting thing about that would have been to find out if there was any presences, if there were any presences connected with that building in Southampton, and maybe you could have got a story together about that.
	Yeah, that's true.
	That's true.
	I mean, and that's the beauty of the subject, you know, Howard, because when I give talks and lectures and do things, people will come up to you and say, you know, I haven't even told my own husband about this, but I'm going to tell you.
	I need to tell somebody this.
	And I get so many stories.
	And that's why, you know, obviously, these stories are no good sitting in filing cabinets.
	They must come out.
	And hence, obviously, a lot of them went into my book just to keep, you know, let Joe public know these things are very, very real.
	So this is the stuff that's in your new book?
	Some of them are, yeah, some of them are.
	Basically, it's a combination of what's happened to me on investigations with my research group, Strange Phenomena Investigations.
	So there's a lot of stuff coming initially from Scotland.
	There's some stuff from England, Wales.
	And there are also, you know, people have been writing and sending in stuff.
	I will speak to them obviously on the phone firstly to ensure that I'm happy with these stories because we've got to try and ascertain if they are telling the truth.
	And how do, because this does happen to you, I'm sure it does.
	Once you become notable, once people have seen you speak or they've seen you on the television, that's it.
	You will get all sorts of people coming out of the woodwork with maybe a family story that they haven't told for years.
	And they will tell you first, and obviously you'll feel privileged about that.
	But there will also be people who think, right, I don't believe in any of this stuff.
	I'm going to create some kind of joke scenario and pounce upon him with this.
	How do you spot those people?
	Yeah, I mean, you've got to try.
	You've got to be very aware.
	Every single investigation we do, we'll try and find out if the people who are telling us these stories are telling the gospel truth because people will try anything to get out of a house.
	It may not be haunted.
	They just want to get out of it.
	And for some reason, maybe the local council won't do that.
	So, I don't know.
	Let's make up a ghost story.
	So we have to even check to see if perhaps maybe that's behind it.
	I guess you've got to, at the end of the day, you've got to use your own judgment and your own sensibility to ensure that the wool isn't being pulled over your eyes.
	That's not to say, I mean, people claim that they can pass lie detector tests, you know, that they're lying through their teeth, but they maintain some body residue, some body, they don't, you know, they keep something there and they can pass lie detector tests with flying colours.
	So there are people out there, sadly, who will try to get a bit of notoriety.
	And thankfully, Touchwoods, I just hope that our society don't fall into the trap because if we did, obviously it would look bad on any society getting caught out like that.
	There is a place, and I've mentioned it to one guest at least before, because I talked to a guy who'd written a book about this place that is said to be one of the most haunted, I know everywhere claims to be the most haunted place in Britain.
	This is said to be one of the most haunted places, certainly in England.
	You might have heard of it.
	Let's say if you have Cambridge Airport.
	Have you heard any stories about Cambridge Airport?
	It rings a bell somewhere.
	All right, well, this, if my memory serves me right, and I talked about this on the old radio show, Cambridge Airport is what we used to call in Britain an old aerodrome.
	So it's one of these sort of wartime style air fjords.
	And I'm not even sure whether it's used as that now.
	But the stories that were told to me about this Cambridge airport were chilling.
	Stories of spanners picking themselves up and throwing themselves into the backs of people who went to check this place out and many, many other stories like that.
	And I was saying to a previous guest that it would be wonderful to go there and stake that place out.
	Perhaps for a night, I wouldn't be afraid of doing it.
	I don't know if you would be, Malcolm, and seeing if we can prove whether this stuff is actually going on and get a handle on what it might be.
	Yeah, absolutely.
	I mean, stuff like that does need investigation.
	What we'd like to do, obviously, if you and I was there, also invite the BBC, the ITN networks, skeptical societies and magicians and everybody.
	So you've got people from all fraternities who would look at this in their own way.
	And then if anything did happen, it'd be very, very interesting to see what everybody said.
	And you'd be quite happy to have the likes of mainstream journalists there.
	You know, maybe some young television reporter who may be deeply skeptical, who may think it's all a big load of nonsense, and you're a deluded fool.
	You would be happy to have somebody there who was not on side about this thing, who was not open.
	You know, I'm saying skeptical, not cynical about the thing.
	You know, there are people who are cynical about the thing, and I think there's some degree of truth in the fact that those people may put an obstacle or block up to it.
	And I think I've got an open mind.
	I certainly don't believe everything I'm told.
	I'd be a fool to.
	But if you had a reporter there like that, don't you feel that you would be risking any investigation?
	It wouldn't bother me because I would dearly need these people here because sceptics would say, oh, did you have so-and-so there?
	No, we didn't.
	Oh, Malcolm, come on.
	You can't be taking this very, very seriously.
	So we would love to have sceptics and other people from other walks of life to look at these things happening.
	Because they laughed at Marconi, they laughed at John Logie Baird, the Wright brothers, forward-thinking people in medicine and science and technology.
	And we've got to understand that humankind, we're learning all the time.
	We're only at the very bottom rung of a very, very tall ladder of understanding.
	And to be honest with you, we don't know all.
	You know, we're learning about ourselves and the cosmos all the time.
	And it really sometimes angers me that a lot of mainstream scientists will shy away from these subjects.
	Oh, don't get involved in that because you don't want to go there, you'll lose your PhD, etc.
	And it's a shame because scientists really need to look at these subjects because I think scientists kind of understand.
	I think it's probably more to do with dimensions, subatomic physics.
	There's a different world out there.
	And what about parallel universes?
	Do you buy into those?
	I mean, I'm probably like your good self.
	I've heard about it, probably read the odd book or two.
	I wouldn't say I'm qualified to say any statement as such on parallel universes.
	It's an interesting concept, basically combined with the string theory, that there's other alternative universes out there.
	For me personally, I don't know.
	I really don't know if that's a viable proposition.
	It would be lovely to think so, just like it would with time travel, etc.
	Very interesting concepts.
	Do you believe in God?
	That's a funny one as well because I'm a Christian.
	I'm a Christian spiritualist.
	I went to Sunday school in Scotland when I was a young boy.
	I did go to church.
	And as I progressed through the years, I learned obviously that there's a lot of things about the Bible.
	We can take out certain aspects of the Bible.
	The debunkers and stuff talk about Deuteronomy and how we shouldn't consult with spirits, etc.
	And yet Jesus himself showed he had a lot of psychic abilities and talents.
	The most unusual thing is that they say, or the Bible says, that God made man in his own image.
	So whose image is these small grey creatures that's been seen in association with landed UFOs, etc.
	Takes us very nicely onto a previous book of yours about UFOs in Scotland.
	That was my first interest in you when I read about you, that you'd researched UFO cases in Scotland, because I hear about them from Wales.
	There's the famous Berron Mountains case.
	We've all heard about Rendlesham Forest, and we've heard about sightings in all sorts of places like jets in the Channel, the English Channel, seeing massive battleship-shaped-sized things in the sky.
	But you don't hear that much about UFOs in Scotland.
	So let's talk UFOs now.
	Very different from the ghost subject, or maybe not.
	Your interest in UFOs, why?
	Yeah, again, simply because it's another aspect of the weird and the wonderful.
	And people claim to have been seeing objects in the sky for millennia that did not conform to conventional type helicopters or aircraft in any way, shape or form.
	I will speak about some of the better sightings of Scotland in a moment, but I would like to say to your listeners that the vast majority of UFO reports, as high as 95%, have a natural, identifiable solution.
	The 5% that remains, 3% of that 5, is probably our own black budget technology, because the stealth aircraft was flying in the United States for about 10 years before the American military machine put their hands up and said, well, that's ours, it's okay, it's ours.
	But in those 10 years, that gave rise to many, many false UFO reports.
	The 2% that remain, 1% could be a new, rare, and as yet undiscovered natural atmospheric phenomena.
	So that leaves us with 1%, and some of your listeners may say that that's not very much, that's a fly anointment.
	But for me personally, after 30 odd years or so of doing this research, I am totally, totally convinced that mankind is dealing with some form of non-human intelligence.
	It's always been with us.
	It's always been there from time immemorial.
	They didn't build the pyramids, don't go along with these theories and stuff.
	And what angers me is the abduction scenario, the abduction cases, the UFO abductions of people from all walks of life, from all continents of this planet, really, really angers me.
	And I've dealt with one classic case in Scotland, if you'd like to hear about it.
	I'd love to.
	Well, basically, what happened was back in 1992, on an August evening, Gary Wood and Colin Wright, good friends, left the built-up city of Edinburgh in central Scotland to drive out along the A70, that was the name of the road, towards a small destination, a small town called Tarbrax in West Lodian.
	So as the car left that late evening, it was dark of course, they travelled out of Edinburgh and then the road started to go to the A70 and in part the A70 is bordered by fields on either side, desolation, you know, lots of fields and it was dark at night, it's a lonely road, etc.
	Now these guys, Howard, had no interest in UFOs.
	They had heard about it of course on the TV and the newspapers, of course they did, but they had no active interest at all.
	So they're driving down this road, they're listening to the music in the car stereo and they're talking about, you know, day-to-day things and then suddenly Colin shouted to Gary, Gary, what's that?
	And he pointed out through the windscreen of the car and about 300 yards further down the road was this jet black two-tiered, massive, two-tiered disc-shaped object hovering silently above the surface of the road.
	And immediately these guys knew, oh come on, this is not an aircraft, it's not a helicopter, what is this?
	That's the classic cake shape, isn't it?
	It is, yes, absolutely, absolutely.
	So as the car, they didn't stop, they just floored it.
	And as the car was directly underneath this hovering object, this object emitted like a silver shimmering curtain, like heavy silver snowflakes, descended from beneath the surface of this object and hit the car.
	And as soon as this effect hit the car, both men were catapulted into total and inky blackness.
	They couldn't see their hands in front of their face, they couldn't see the dashboard of the car, they couldn't see each other.
	They really, honestly, Howard, they thought they were dead.
	They thought they were dead.
	Now, seconds later, of what appeared, what appeared to be seconds later, they regained their sight.
	The car is shuddering very, very violently on the road and they just screamed to their destination of tar bracks and they banged on the door where they were going to see.
	The occupants of the house came out and says, where have you been?
	You're an hour and a half late.
	And just to finish off very, very briefly, because it is a big story, that night and subsequent nights, they had this horrible dreams, this alien face, this grey alien's face coming into their dream world.
	And then they started to find scars in their body that previously were not there.
	And as I say, to cut a long story short, we subjected both men to a qualified hypnotherapy and we regressed them to that night and a typical abduction scenario unfolded, i.e., that the car was stopped in the road, they were taken forcibly from the car, taken on board, whatever this thing was, and subjected to some medical examination of some description.
	And one of the guys, Gary, says, Malcolm, I couldn't do a thing.
	I was lying on this flat raised table.
	I badly, desperately wanted to punch one of these little guys.
	He says, I couldn't move.
	I was immobilized.
	And all I heard in my head was, we are not here to harm you.
	But he was traumatized.
	He really was.
	This is classic Betty and Barney Hill, the famous American case.
	That's exactly what happened to them, isn't it?
	It is.
	And it begs the question, why or why or why do we still have abductions here in 2010?
	They've been going on for 50, 60, 70 years.
	Why do they still need to do it?
	Why do you think they do it?
	If they do.
	Yeah, I think they do.
	I do think that this happens, absolutely.
	People may say it's a global psychosis.
	If so, even that's interesting.
	The reason that I think is that perhaps, and it is speculation on my part, they're putting things into us.
	Perhaps they are the gods.
	Perhaps we are, planet Earth is a zoo that they see us here.
	And the things that have been seen in the skies since time immemorial in Renaissance paintings, etc.
	You'll see descriptions of this.
	The Vermanas, etc.
	Ezekiel Swale.
	They've always been here and maybe they're just doing things to change us as human beings.
	Do you think they're tweaking our DNA?
	That's the word I was looking for.
	So thanks for that.
	Yeah, I guess maybe they are.
	But please, for your listeners, it's only speculation on my part.
	Well, I'm interested in the two guys.
	When was this?
	1992, so it's 18 years ago now.
	How have they reconciled what happened?
	Well, at first, their wives didn't believe them, more so Gary's wife.
	And she was on the verge of leaving him until one night she telephoned me in my house.
	And I picked up the phone and I says, hello, Malcolm Robinson.
	Malcolm, can I apologise to you?
	And it was Gary's wife.
	I says, why?
	She says, well, you know how I haven't supported my husband.
	I really think he was losing it and gone off his head.
	I said, yeah, of course, I know that.
	She says, Well, last night, Malcolm, I was lying in bed next to Gary.
	Gary was sleeping.
	I was reading a book.
	I closed the book and put the book on the bedside table.
	And I switched the light off, the bedside light off.
	Seconds later, I felt something grabbing my ankles and pulling me, pulling me very, very forcibly down the bed.
	And I looked and I could see two small grey creatures at the foot of the bed.
	She says, now I 100% believe my husband.
	That is amazing.
	What would you say as an explanation for that?
	There she was, sceptic, didn't believe her husband.
	There she is, she says, confronting what he says he confronted.
	Yeah, that's right.
	I mean, sceptics may say, oh, she's maybe just saying that to pacify her husband and let me know that she's happy with it.
	But she says, I mean, she said, I met her.
	She says, look, this really, really did happen.
	I wouldn't have believed it for the world.
	I just, it was totally out of the twilight zone this.
	Fantastic case at the time.
	I don't remember this case.
	I don't remember these guys.
	Did they talk to the media?
	Yeah, well, what happened was I just knew that this was the biggest case ever to have occurred in Scotland as a nation.
	Nothing has come close.
	We don't even have anything of this nature in the record books or anything.
	And I says, guys, I need to know.
	I need to know if maybe someone else in Scotland has experienced UFO abductions.
	And as such, would you be prepared to come with me and go to the media, briefly tell them about what's happened here?
	We've done the hypnosis now.
	We've got a lot of stuff here we can tell just to see if perhaps somebody from some little town in Edinburgh, Glasgow or Dundee or Falkirk, maybe had something similar.
	Makes sense, but you take a massive, massive risk when you do.
	We did, and we took that risk and both men got ridiculed substantially.
	And that's sadly the downside of not only UFOs but of ghosts.
	When people put their heart and faith in you on the line and tell you what really happened to them, and then the media just knocked them sideways and knocked them down.
	And that's why a lot of people will not go to people like myself to tell me these stories because of the fear and the ridicule factor.
	And it begs the question, how many thousands and thousands of people, and most of your listeners out there in radio land, has had these experiences, probably would love to tell people like me, but might not do so because they're frightened.
	For a whole mess of reasons, ridicule being one of them, and also because of the times and places these people work.
	A lot of people who wear uniforms, as we both know, pilots, people who work in the police, you know, like my own father, who was a policeman in Liverpool for 30 odd years and saw and experienced some really weird things on night shifts, some strange phenomena that he came across in Liverpool back then.
	But often these people, as you say, don't want to get involved in reporting these things because of the ridicule factor.
	And for some, it could mean you lose your job.
	Yeah, very much so.
	I mean, I'm pretty sure that has happened over the years, you know, and it's thankfully now here in 2010, both guys have spoken to the press.
	I think these days they're more allowing.
	You have a lot of programmes here in the United Kingdom, obviously, on ghosts and poltergeists, and even across Europe and the States.
	What about the nightmares that they suffered immediately after this?
	Have they subsided, disappeared completely?
	They have, they have.
	Several years later, just as a footnote to this story, Gary and his two young sons were out driving outside Edinburgh, not on the same road, a different road, and suddenly everything went pure white right round the car.
	Can you imagine a large big white sheet of paper going right around your car and the sons are screaming, Daddy, Daddy, what's this, what's this?
	And it only lasted for a few seconds.
	But we don't know what happened there.
	It's just one of these things.
	What is happening with this case is that, fingers crossed, next year this case is going to be turned into a blockbuster movie called A70.
	I'm working with DRB Entertainment in London who's sourcing this project.
	And I'm so pleased that this is going to come to pass and go out as a movie.
	Please tell me they won't have Hugh Grant in it.
	Hopefully not.
	Only kidding.
	It will be a fabulous movie.
	I'm nice to think that maybe, given the squeeze on the film industry in the UK that we keep reading about at the moment, hopefully this thing can be financed, sourced and made in the UK and preferably in Scotland.
	It will be.
	It is being.
	And some of the finance is coming from outside the British Isles, but most of the finance is internal.
	A lot of the filming will be done in Scotland, more so on the actual location, the road where it happened.
	We have got actors involved, some really top-class A-list actors, which sadly I can't tell you at the moment.
	Still, I wish I could, but I can.
	And yeah, it's fingers crossed, it should be coming out winter of 2011.
	Richard E. Grant, he'd be very good.
	Okay, well, if you need a voiceover, man, somebody to do you trails, I am available and very reasonable.
	Hey, what a great project.
	I didn't know you were working on this.
	I had no idea.
	That is fascinating.
	And what a wonderful abduction story.
	Not so wonderful for the guys who experienced it, although thankfully they're okay now.
	But what an amazing experience for somebody to have.
	And I suppose when you've had an experience like that, and as far as I know, I never have, you must be left wondering all your life, what was that about?
	Yeah, I mean, I remember once some years ago, 1994, this gentleman from the northwest of Scotland says, Malcolm, I'm using a torch and I'm flashing into the night sky and I'm getting beams of light coming down.
	Would you like to come up and see this?
	So I say, okay.
	And so, funnily enough, I was going down in the Loch Ness submarine.
	I'm one of the very, very, very few people in this whole planet that can safely say they've been down in a submarine Loch Ness.
	How amazing.
	Yeah, I've been one of the few guys to do that.
	So he met me after I had done the Loch Ness dive and we jumped in his car and we drove over 300 miles to the north tip of Scotland to a little place called Altby.
	And later on that night we drove up to this area and it was a beautiful, beautiful, beautiful starry night, not a cloud in the sky and it was a crescent moon so it was casting a soft glow over this beautiful Scottish scenery.
	And he got his torch and he started flashing into the night sky.
	And then suddenly, I mean you can't make this up, suddenly this column of light just came down like a, I call it like a rope ladder of light, like a flimsy rope ladder that you would throw over a garden wall or something.
	Came down, down, down, down, down in stages.
	Now I had a camera around my neck, Howard, but I was gone.
	I mean it was just me and this light and I couldn't believe what I was looking at.
	And suddenly it stopped and then it just screamed off into the sky and was gone.
	It wasn't attached to a solid object.
	It was only a light phenomena.
	It wasn't attached to a pole or an aircraft or a balloon.
	Sounds a lot like the case of the Phoenix lights on a smaller scale.
	Yeah, I guess to some degree, maybe it could be.
	Only this was one where as opposed to the Phoenix lights was so small but over a period, yeah.
	And it was very, very bizarre, you know.
	And I've seen quite a few things.
	I mean the main thing, obviously the biggest UFO area in Scotland to see UFOs is undoubtedly the small town of Bonnybridge in central Scotland.
	We call that a window area or a hotspot where you've a far, far better chance of seeing something bizarre than anywhere else.
	Why is that?
	Why do we think?
	Yeah, it's a good one.
	We can never ever answer that one, I'm afraid.
	Why do we have these UFO window areas?
	Why do we have them?
	Well, that sounds like there's a word that a lot of these researchers love to use, a portal.
	It sounds like this Bonnie Ridge place may be a portal of some sort.
	Yeah, I mean, we can use these words.
	I'm not very comfortable with using words like that because we don't understand or can quantify what even that means.
	Okay, a portal possibly means something coming from another dimension or whatever, of course, but we don't know.
	But there's no denying, Howard, since 1992, there have been an array of various weird and wonderful shapes being seen in the Scottish skies over the Stirlingshire town from...
	Give me the best one.
	Oh, the best one.
	Well, there was this family walking up.
	There's so many best ones.
	There was this family walking in the moors behind the town of Bonny Bridge.
	And then suddenly this blue ball of light, about probably four or five times the size of a basketball, came zipping down across the sky and landed in a field.
	And this family's looking at this and they're going, what on earth is this?
	And then suddenly there was this wire fence that was bordering this field.
	It started to shake, started to shake and move and then it lifted itself up and just was gone in seconds.
	But near that time there was two chaps about two miles away and they were setting up their camera to take some photographs of this petrochemical plant which is near Bonny Bridge.
	It's all these flares and burning off gas in the night sky and pipes.
	It's like a city in itself, you know.
	And suddenly they saw this orange-shaped ball of light coming from the distance moving very, very swiftly.
	Their initial thoughts were it was maybe a helicopter or the light of the bright light of an aircraft.
	No it wasn't.
	No it wasn't.
	Because as this object came towards them, it stopped about 200 feet above their heads and started to descend on these two startled men.
	You know, they couldn't believe it.
	So one of these chaps bent over backwards with his camera and took a photograph of the underside of this object.
	And it's in my first book, the Scottish book on UFOs.
	You'll see that photograph in the book.
	Describe it to me.
	It's a reddish orangey circle in a black sky with a concave underside.
	Now, round about the perimeter of this orange ball is a flood of concentric light.
	Now, admittedly, there's no backdrop at all, and sceptics will quite rightly say that could have came from anywhere.
	Well, they'd say, you know, first thing they'd say is Photoshop.
	Yeah, I mean, and this is a sad thing because, like we were saying earlier, I think when it all is said and done, you can have photographs galore, you can have videotaped galore, but if you've seen something yourself and you know in your heart of hearts, be it a ghost or a UFO, that it's not a trick of the light, that it's not something natural, then for you personally, that's probably the best testimony.
	And then you have to decide, don't you?
	And I've often thought about this one, you have to decide whether this thing actually physically happened, whether it was somehow imprinted by something or someone on your mind, or whether you made that happen yourself.
	Three things.
	Yeah, we've looked at this possibility.
	It's a possibility where maybe somewhere along the line during that week, maybe there was some form of hypnosis.
	This is even as bizarre as the sighting.
	Somebody maybe induced some form of hypnosis on these guys to say that in two days' time you're going to see this strange sighting.
	You want to tell everybody about it.
	And these are not wacky wacko people.
	No, that's the thing.
	They're honest to goodness Scots guys going about their normal day-to-day business.
	They eke out a living.
	They don't want to get their name.
	They did not even want to mention this.
	I had to bend more or less their arm up their backs to talk about this.
	But yeah, normal guys.
	Malcolm, you've been, I knew nothing of you, an amazing guest.
	I want to talk to you again.
	Please keep in touch.
	I'd be very remiss if I didn't ask you this before we go, though.
	You went down in the Lochnet submarine.
	I've wondered years what that must be like.
	What was it like down there in the place where Nessie, if Nessie really exists, if Nessie ever existed, inhabits it.
	Well, being a Scotsman, being a Scotsman, I do believe that it's not a gimmick because there are lots of lake monsters around the world.
	They'll go Pogo and Canada, for instance, etc.
	I do believe in the testimony again of local people who live around the loch.
	When I was doing investigations at Loch Ness, I spoke to many, many people who know the loch, who know the conditions that the wind can do, and the moods of the loch, and the shadows and the shapes.
	As the day goes on, the shadows get longer, the traversing of boats going across the loch, it makes all these ripples, it looks like humps.
	They know all this.
	And I was convinced of the testimony that there is something there.
	I was more interested in the sonar returns.
	Some of the sonar evidence coming from Loch Ness was absolutely fantastic.
	But when we talk about the submarine, it was back in 1994.
	It was a deep sea, a North Sea submersible, about 35 feet in length, sponsored by Swatch Watches, red and white.
	It was all kitted.
	Oh, I remember this.
	I do.
	Yeah, yeah.
	And it was harboured near Drumna Drocket.
	It's a strange name for your American listeners.
	Drumna Drocket.
	And they were taking down members of the public for £65.90 per hour.
	Now, this was to help them to fund their own research because they used this money to take people like myself down there, and they were taking core bed samples of the loch's floor for the ecology of the loch, etc.
	Anyway, we went down to over 400 feet and you could see the condensation trickling down the walls of this small submarine.
	There was a large portal in the front nose of the submarine which allowed you to see out and there was five large halogen lights trying to penetrate the inky blackness of Loch Ness because Loch Ness is heavily peat stained by all the peat that comes down from the hillsides etc.
	And really you cannot see your hand in front of your face down there.
	So it wasn't until we got to the loch floor, we skimmed slowly, slowly at an angle across the loch floor and you could see through this big portal these rocks.
	Now the funny thing was Howard that we didn't see any water vegetation.
	There were no fish straight into these lights.
	You would have thought well this is their domain.
	Fish must be serious this bright light.
	No fish came near us.
	And then suddenly the lock floor just dropped.
	It was gone.
	It was a chasm of darkness.
	And I said to the skipper of this submarine, oh please can we go down there?
	And he turned round and he said, I'm sorry Mr. Rumson, we've got an allocated course.
	We must stick to that course.
	And it only lasted an hour, but it was the best and most enjoyable hour I've ever had in my life.
	And it was wonderful.
	Did I see Nessie?
	No, I didn't.
	Well, you're not alone, I don't think.
	Malcolm, you have been a fantastic guest and thank you so much.
	And as I say, please keep in touch.
	Only fair to let you publicize yourself and your work.
	I know people will be interested in finding out about you.
	So what's the easiest way to do that?
	Yeah, certainly for your listeners and anyone listening to your show, the best way to get my two books, the first one's on the best UFO cases come from Scotland, the second one is on the best ghost and poltergeist cases coming from Britain, is to go onto the website, which is www.healingsofatlantis.com.
	Healingsofatlantis.com and you'll get all the information there.
	I'm also the assistant editor to Britain's new 100-page UFO magazine called UFO Matrix.
	It's available in WH Smiths all over the United Kingdom.
	It's also available in Barnes and Noble stores in America and Canada.
	Fabulous, fabulous.
	Okay, and that's how do we get that?
	How do we find out about that?
	Again, if you just go onto that UFO Matrix website, sorry, the UFO Healings of Atlantis website, you'll get that.
	But just before I go, I'd like to say that I would like to thank the American people who brought me over last year.
	I was the very first Scotsman to speak on UFOs at an international UFO conference in Lachlan, Nevada.
	So I'd like to thank the American people for inviting me over.
	That was terrific.
	Come back on the show soon, Malcolm.
	Thank you very, very much.
	No problems.
	Well, my views don't count in any of this.
	Yours do, but I think he's one of the best guests that we've ever had on this show, and there is a lot more to talk about.
	Malcolm Robinson is his name, and if you want to find out about him, his website, www.healingsofatlantis.com.
	I'll put a link to it on my website, which is, as you know, www.theunexplained.tv.
	Thank you to Adam Cornwell, my fabulous webmaster, for his hard work and for developing this show.
	Thank you to Martin for the theme tune as ever.
	And above all, thank you to you for listening to this show.
	My name is Howard Hughes.
	Please keep the donations coming.
	They're totally, utterly vital.
	To enable you to be able to hear material like you've just heard and for us to do other things with this show.
	I am so excited at the way things have developed with it and how we've expanded in the last year.
	We have an awful lot to do.
	Together we can do it.
	Please take care.

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