The Unexplained - Howard Hughes - Edition 38 - Barrie John

June 18, 2010 - The Unexplained - Howard Hughes

01:05:41

Edition 38 - Barrie John

This Edition features British Medium Barrie John - famous for his stage shows and a stringof radio and tv appearances. Barrie is very down to earth - but his work certainly is not!

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	Across the UK, across continental North America and around the world by webcast and podcast completely independently, my name is Howard Hughes and this is The Unexplained.
	Great to be able to say those words.
	Thank you for returning to the show.
	I hope you enjoyed the last show and thank you for the ongoing feedback, the many emails and the many great suggestions.
	Now let me tell you, when you make a suggestion for this show, I always read your email and if you suggest a guest, I always try to contact that guest.
	Sometimes because this show is not on the radio, organizations and guests won't understand that and they perhaps won't want to do an online show.
	If the person who receives my email about doing this show knows about it, then quite often the response is very positive and sometimes people go away and have a little think and they say yes.
	Once they've seen the website, once they've heard a show or two, they say we can do this.
	But it is always a bit of a process and our job is harder here, but more exciting because we're independent, because we're not in the mainstream, because we're not owned and controlled by some big corporation.
	It is always going to be harder for us to do this.
	But the nice thing about it is, from what I see, we are punching above our weight.
	We're getting the big guests and we're getting the shows out there and we're doing this in a completely professional way, but totally independently.
	We're not trying to sell you things.
	We're not trying to sell you product here on this show.
	That's not what we're here for.
	We are simply trying to get messages out there and give you something to think about.
	And if it's entertaining along the way, that's great.
	If it makes you think and cogitate, that's good too.
	So like I say, thank you for the emails.
	Please keep the donations coming.
	They are absolutely vital to the work that we do here.
	If you like to make a donation to the show, however big or small, it will be gratefully received and it will go back into developing this show.
	Go to the website, www.theunexplained.tv.
	That's w dot theunexplained.tv, and you can make your donation there.
	And if you want to email the show, you can do that on the website as well.
	Or you can reach me directly at unexplainedh at yahoo.co.uk.
	This time round, it's a medium.
	Now, I had to think long and hard about whether I wanted to put another medium on this show, because we've had Christian Dion, James Van Prague, Sandrea Mosses, and others recently.
	And I thought to myself, do I want to talk to another medium?
	Well, this man comes very, very highly recommended, and he's won many awards for his work.
	He's getting more and more exposure, and I have a feeling he is going to be quite a big name.
	His name is Barry John.
	You might have seen him on television.
	If you haven't, he's bound to be coming to a TV set near you soon.
	He's done a fair amount of radio and it's actually Jackie Newcomb, the angel lady, who recommended him to me and me to him, which is how this conversation is happening now.
	So with a bit of luck, by digital hookup, let's get on to him now.
	His name is Barry John.
	He's in the English Midlands.
	And Barry John, thank you for coming on the Unexplained.
	Thank you very much.
	That's great to join you, Howard.
	So whereabouts are you, Barry John?
	I know you're online on Digital Line, but where are you?
	I know.
	I'm based in North Nottinghamshire, in the heart of Sherwood Forest, a beautiful area, just near Rufford Abbey and Chatsworth and Centre Parks, you name it.
	They're all more or less on the doorstep.
	Lovely area.
	Now, I worked many, many years ago for the BBC in Nottingham, and I quite liked the area, but I did find that people were not as accepting of things that were out of the ordinary as they might be.
	So I wonder how a medium comes to be based in Nottingham.
	Maybe things have changed since then.
	Well, you're right.
	Yeah, you're very true.
	I mean, I do a lot of work with Radio Nottingham as well.
	So I know a lot of the guys there, but I understand what you mean because people in this area are very thoroughbred people.
	You know, they're all local people.
	That's where they was brought up.
	There's also obviously a lot of religion here at the same time.
	And I think for people, mixing spiritualism with religion gets them very confused at times.
	Obviously, when we work with it, you know, we accept every religion, every nationality.
	We don't have an issue with people's beliefs or people's ways of life.
	But I was always brought up here.
	I mean, I'm a Nottingham boy born and bred.
	My mother was from Scotland.
	My father was from Nottinghamshire.
	And I was brought up here.
	So it's been a great location for me.
	And obviously, I know a lot of people in the area.
	That's going to be your Trump card, I think, because you can say, well, look, I am one of you and I am doing this.
	There must be something in it.
	I came from this place.
	But nevertheless, whatever you might say, I've got my feet on the ground.
	Yeah, exactly.
	And I think that's what people do like about me is because I support a lot of charities locally, I support a lot of appeals locally.
	You know, I'll do anything in the local community.
	If I can help people raise a profile for funding or for an appeal, then we'll do that.
	You know, and I think that's what people like.
	We're not afraid to jump in and have a go.
	We're not afraid to go online and go on radios, et cetera, and say what we feel about the local area.
	We've had lots of discussions, as you can imagine, about Robin Hood and promoting Robin Hood and how do we promote Robin Hood in the area.
	So it's a fascinating thing for us.
	And I do hold a passion to Robin Hood, I'm afraid.
	Have you ever contacted Robin Hood, the Sheriff of Nottingham or anybody like that or psychically?
	I haven't.
	I mean, it's a lovely question.
	I love that.
	No, I haven't.
	It's bad to be done.
	You know that, don't you?
	Yeah, I mean, would he really want to talk to me?
	I don't know.
	He might have some tips for you.
	How do you know?
	Now, where it's really from.
	Well, exactly.
	Well, that's just for starters.
	Let's take it right back to fundamentals here, because every medium I've ever spoken to in the last 20 years or so, I've spoken to quite a few at every level of practice, if that's what you call it.
	Not one, I think, has a common definition of what a medium is.
	So you tell me what yours is.
	All right.
	Okay.
	We classify ourselves as a clairvoyant medium.
	Basically, that means that we communicate with the other side.
	We give proof of life after death.
	That's my belief.
	That's what I was trained in.
	That's where I know that I've always worked from being a child, really.
	You know, it's something that I have this big passion to people.
	And when people come to me, you know, I always say, don't come to me just out of fascination.
	Come to me because you've got a reason to come and see me.
	And the only reason I say that, Howard, is because it's very difficult sometimes for me as a medium to actually pass on information to people when They've not got anybody close in the spirit world that wants to talk to them, or they've not got a situation around their life that they want to try and resolve.
	So we do have to look at them on that basis and say, look, guys, you know, Barry doesn't profess to be a fortune teller.
	I'm not a fortune teller.
	You know, I don't sit there with my tea leaves and my teacups out, you know, and start turning them around on a saucer.
	You know, we communicate with another source and we get information through that proves to us or hopefully proves to the sitter that this is somebody that's connected to them.
	All right.
	Well, listen, if somebody comes to you then on, I'm trying to find a phrase for this, on a false premise, you know, they're not quite telling you the truth, they're not quite being honest about themselves, maybe they're doing it for a lark, a joke, a bit of fun, whatever, but they haven't given you accurate information insofar as you would give a medium information before they do a reading.
	Would you know that?
	Well, the problem is with the reading, the reading wouldn't go anywhere.
	So the information that you was getting wouldn't fit.
	It wouldn't be correct.
	We find this with people where before anybody walks in my house, Howard, the first thing I do is I will sit for them for probably about 15 minutes, 20 minutes.
	And as I call it, I tune in with them.
	So I see if anybody's around, anybody wants to communicate.
	And I already know in my heart what people are coming for, to be honest.
	Okay, so you always have a reason, you know, whether spirit turn around to me and say, yeah, they're coming to talk about the relationship.
	They're coming to talk about they've just lost the mother.
	They're coming to talk about that they've got problems at work or work issues.
	And I already have a good inkling what people want to see me for.
	The one thing I don't like is like what you're saying is when people just turn up on the spur of the moment as a bit of fun or just out of interest because I can't give them any information that'll prove anything to them on that basis because they come with this mindset of they want one thing in particular.
	And we do have to be open about what we get during a reading because we can't guarantee who's going to come and who's going to give us information.
	And like I say, the other thing is we never profess to be able to solve people's problems or issues in life.
	All right.
	Isn't this the difficulty, though, Barry, that people can come to you and if they come and they say, I've just lost my auntie, well then you've automatically got a start, haven't you?
	I've always been told that the best mediums are the ones that you tell absolutely nothing to and then they tell you your story.
	Absolutely spot on.
	Whenever anybody comes into our house or into my office, whichever you wish to call it, it depends where we're doing the readings, we will never ever let them give us information.
	Even when we take a book in from people, all that we'll have is the person's first name and the person's telephone number.
	So I don't actually know why that person's coming to see me at that point.
	However, once the person has come to see me, I won't let them tell me anything.
	The last thing I want somebody to say to me is, I've just lost my mum, I've just lost my dad, because that isn't what I'm probably going to get.
	You know, I have to go with what I do get.
	So we don't let people give us information.
	And the one thing during the reading is, all I say to people is, all I want to know is yes and no's.
	And a lot of the time, I don't even give people time to answer me that, if you know what I mean.
	If I know I'm getting the right information, I'll keep going with it, keep going with it.
	And then I will stop every so often and say, does that make sense to you?
	Now, sometimes people say, though, I've came out of there and I was being polite to the guy.
	And I said, oh, yes, that does make sense.
	And I'll try and trace my Auntie Florrie that he talked about later.
	But, you know, maybe Auntie Florrie never existed.
	Exactly, yeah.
	And, you know, that's where I want people to be honest with me.
	You know, don't go out thinking, oh, well, you know, I can't replace that, but I've made Barry happy by saying yes and no.
	Because that could have sent the reading totally in the wrong direction for a start.
	You know, it could have given them something that isn't really meant for them or something that we've misinterpreted.
	And if somebody's just going to sit there and keep saying, yeah, I understand that.
	Yeah, I'll have a look for that.
	Then it doesn't work for me.
	And I will know that because I know the information I'm getting.
	And if the person doesn't respond to me or give me the answers that I feel that they should be, then I'll say something's not right here.
	And we have had situations where I've actually stopped readings with people and said, look, sorry, this isn't working.
	You know, there's something that's not right here.
	There's something not tying up.
	There's something you're not telling me.
	And people appreciate that.
	And do they give you the piece of information that's maybe missing at that point?
	Because people do, don't they?
	Yeah, but people, not everybody is open.
	And quite often people don't want complete strangers to know things about them.
	So sometimes they will hold back the killer piece of information, I imagine.
	Yeah, they do.
	They do.
	And that's true.
	I mean, when we do stage demonstrations or anything publicly, people will always come up to you at the end and say, well, I could understand that, but I didn't want to admit it because I didn't want people to know about it.
	And it's like, okay, I wasn't going to give private information away, but what I wanted to do was try and give you something provable.
	And we do have to say that at the beginning of every event.
	You know, what we do in terms of private sittings is confidential.
	What we do in terms of a public event, we wouldn't necessarily give as much information during a public event as we would during a private sitting because we know that people have got confidentiality.
	We don't want anybody, you know, coming out with the secrets all of a sudden after hundreds of years.
	Isn't that interesting?
	So if you're in one of those big public events, and there are more and more of these happening all over the country, aren't there?
	I know you're involved in quite a few.
	And you've got a great big audience there.
	They wouldn't have come if they weren't curious or interested or primarily had a reason to be there.
	And say you detect something, you get a message, a picture, whatever it might be, that's important to one particular person, but you don't want to divulge it there, will you call that person back afterwards or is the matter closed as far as you're concerned?
	No, very often, if I'm working with somebody and I feel that it's got a little bit too sensitive, let's say, or too emotional, then I'll say to the person, come and see me afterwards, backstage.
	And I always, always do that with people.
	It's a tremendous responsibility, isn't it?
	It is, it is.
	And I think there's also a responsibility there that, you know, we have to look at, at the end of the day, we're not counsellors.
	You know, we are trained in an element of counselling, or I was, but we're not counsellors.
	So the last thing I want people to do is come to me for bereavement or come to me because they've got a relationship problem that they want me to solve.
	Because that's not what we're here for.
	We're here to prove that, you know, the existence of life after death.
	That's what we want to do.
	Which is the hardest thing of all to prove.
	There is a researcher that I interviewed many, many years ago.
	I was just a, I think it was a student project, you know, and I went to the University of Nottingham and I met a guy who I understand is still doing research and still interested in these things.
	His name is Alan Gould.
	I don't know if you ever came across Alan Gould.
	I mean, this is 20 years ago now, and I was a mere boy.
	But I remember him talking about how difficult it is to actually prove the claims of mediums.
	But he was in a situation, if I tell this right, where a piece of information was communicated to him, and the third party in that room, and nobody else could have known this information.
	It was something that the person who had passed over, who was passing on this information, could only have known.
	It was a piece of, it was about steak.
	It was about the fact that Alan liked, I've never forgotten this, Alan liked steak.
	Nobody else there knew that Alan would have liked steak.
	Alan's wife, who I think was there, didn't know that fact that whenever he went to visit this departed person's home, he always got steak because the person who departed believed he liked steak and he did like steak.
	But this thing had never been discussed.
	The only people who knew about this were the one who was in spirit, if that exists, and Alan himself, who's in life.
	Yeah, yeah.
	But that's the nice thing for me.
	You know, when we do get that little piece of information that really makes a difference to people, and, you know, we have it where people will come to us in the home or in the office and they'll go away with such an emotion because they realize that their mother's come through and she's told them this specific information.
	And that's what we want, isn't it?
	We all want that piece of information that says, you know what, I am your mother or I am your father.
	And that's what everybody looks for.
	And I do hope sincerely, you know, from my heart, that everybody who goes away from me goes away with that feeling that, yes, that's proved that that's my mum or that's proved that's my dad and they know what's happening in my life.
	What is it that's giving you information?
	Are you getting pictures?
	Are you getting, you know, can you see words in front of you?
	Can you hear messages?
	How are you getting this information?
	I get varied.
	I get all sorts.
	I really do.
	And it depends what level Spirit wants to work with me on.
	Very often I see a lot of pictures.
	I hear a lot of voices, which obviously give me names and dates and times and, you know, street names, etc.
	All those sort of things.
	So mine really is hearing and seeing more than anything.
	But it all depends.
	I mean, I suppose really what I have to look at, I mean, this has put me in the spot really, because when people are giving me ailments, for instance, I get that as a physical sort of ailment on me.
	So if somebody's passed with a heart attack or somebody's possibly got a tumour of the stomach, something like this, you feel very drawn to certain parts of your body and you think, right, okay, that's not me.
	There's something not right there, you know.
	And this can happen for people such as people with brain tumours, that sort of feeling, because you always get this link.
	And I think that's where I have to look at it sometimes and say, do you know what?
	I don't know how I get the information.
	I don't know who's giving me the information.
	All I know is at the end of the day, I know things that I couldn't possibly know about a person.
	What I should have asked you at the beginning of this, and I'm sorry that I didn't, but I should have.
	How did you know that you could do this?
	How did you discover it?
	Blimey.
	Okay, right.
	That takes me back a few years.
	Well, quite a few years, really.
	The first time I ever realized anything was I was probably eight years old, something like that, very early in my life.
	And the one thing I've always, always remembered, my mother's family were very big into spiritualism or the spirit market.
	And I remember all the stories of table levitation.
	They used to communicate with uncles that had passed during the wartime and members of the family who'd passed.
	And the thing that always fascinated me was I always, always knew in my heart there was something else.
	I remember having invisible friends.
	I remember having people giving me messages when I was a child and thinking, right, okay, who's told me that?
	Where's that information come from?
	And the one particular moment I always remembered or always have remembered was we used to live in a very old property and we had typical of a family ready.
	We used to have the telephone at the bottom of the stairs.
	And I remember being on the phone as a child.
	I think I was, I can't remember I was on the phone too, but we was on the phone as a child.
	And I remember feeling this hand on my shoulder.
	And I actually turned around and I thought, oh, it's my mother.
	And I turned around and it wasn't.
	There was nobody there.
	And I have never run so fast in my life because it was because it was like, who was that?
	Who was it?
	You know, where did that come from?
	And then from that moment on, it began to really pick up for me.
	You know, I used to do tarot cards for people when I was 12, 13 years old.
	And for me, it was just like playing with a set of playing cards.
	You know, I used to throw the cards on the table, they used to pick the cards.
	And then the things I used to get from that really did used to shock me because it used to be, well, where's that information coming from?
	You know, is it?
	And as a kid, okay, as a kid, was that a help to you getting on with other people or did some people shun and avoid you because of that?
	Some people did shun me and avoid me for it, but also for me as a child, it took a lot for me to understand what was actually happening to me.
	What did you think was happening?
	I was very unsure at that point.
	You know, I mean, I was at the point of thinking, you know, is this just my imagination?
	Is this just my dream state giving me information?
	And it wasn't until I started working with it, you know, when I was probably, like, say, 12, 13 years old, that I realized I was getting information for people that I just couldn't know.
	I just didn't know it, you know.
	And then we progressed.
	We progressed from there into obviously various sort of stages of mediumship, working with private groups, working on education boards for the SNU.
	I mean, it just really evolved into something that's, you know, now, I don't want to say it's gotten out of control now, but it's really took off big time.
	You know, we do so much now that we get lost with it at times.
	Okay.
	Well, that, I mean, it's a big decision, it seems to me, to know that you have some kind of gift and to just know that you're special and different from other people in some ways, or you're not using something that they might have anyway, but most people don't tune into it.
	But to actually make it your life, now that's a bit of a leap, isn't it?
	Oh, yeah, it is.
	And I mean, I did it.
	I mean, I was I've got A profession.
	I mean, I was the chartered quantity surveyor from my first career, really.
	Well, there's nothing more logical than that, is there?
	Quantity surveyor.
	I mean, that's quantities, figures, numbers, statistics, and all the rest of it.
	Yeah, very, very sort of legal-minded, you know, in construction.
	And I just progressed on to different levels from there, you know, and basically it was only when, when would it be now, probably early sort of 2000 that I thought, okay, if this is the way that spirit want me to go with it, then that's the way I'm going to start going more, you know, and I'm going to start giving more time up to it.
	And that's when I started dropping off my profession and started working more on a part-time basis.
	Then I became self-employed in construction as a construction consultant.
	And it opened so many doorways up for me because I'd allowed that time to be put in place to start working very heavily with my mediumship.
	Did you ever tell any of the guys you worked with in the construction industry, the guys in the big yellow hats, that you were a medium as well?
	Not at all.
	Not at all.
	I just wondered.
	No, no, no, not at all.
	Because it's something that we've always tried to keep separate because of what we do in terms of, or what I've done in terms of profession, and then obviously what I do in terms of my abilities as Barry John.
	And it's something we do have to look at because I was always very, not secretive of it, but I was always very safety conscious with it at times because what I didn't want people to think was this guy out there who's very highly qualified is suddenly now talking to voices in his head.
	Well, look at the problems that people like David Ike have had to put up with.
	He said he had an experience in South America that changed his life, took him on a completely different path, but of course he's had to face so much media criticism over the years because he came out.
	Yeah, you do.
	And that's what you've got to look at, you know, and that's why now for us, you know, the world of Barry John and the events and everything has really taken off full time.
	You know, that's really all we do now in terms of, you know, the Barry John business.
	I worry about one aspect of this, and I know that we both know Jackie Newcomb, and I was talking to her very, very recently about what she does.
	I know you do a lot of these so-called light entertainment shows that are, they're fair enough, they publicize this, they give it a bit of a platform.
	I worry when this becomes entertainment because I think that at times, if it becomes light entertainment, you then trivialize something that is actually very serious and to do with people's lives.
	It's a good point, Howard.
	I mean, if you remember two or three years ago, you know, we had the Fraudulent Mediums Act relaunched in the UK.
	And basically what it meant was that as mediums, we have to announce that what we do is entertainment purposes.
	And that was purely from an insurance point of view.
	You know, that was to cover us if anything ever went wrong.
	And it's the one thing I hate to say to people when they come to me for readings or on an event, because I don't take what I do as entertainment.
	I take it as a very personal, a very serious subject, because the effect that we can have on people's lives is just really unlimited.
	You know, we have to be so careful what we say.
	But then that moves me into another area of people's training and education in the spirit market because we've seen so many people now coming on board and saying, I'm a medium.
	And after six months, people are coming on board and saying, yeah, I'm an international medium.
	I've traveled the world, traveled the country, everything else.
	And I look at them and I think, but you've got no experience in it.
	You've got no experience at all.
	And one of the ways that I always teach people, I teach them about the ways of life, you know, to be a medium isn't about training.
	It isn't about tuition.
	You've got to be able to have empathy and sympathy with somebody when they've lost somebody.
	You've got to understand how that person feels in an emotional sense.
	You've got to know how to connect with people.
	A lot of people, Barry, I don't know if you agree with this, but a lot of people, I think, have this ability and they don't talk about it much.
	I mean, sometimes I tell people things and I don't know where the information came from.
	Sometimes the information is not exactly useful.
	It's quite trivial, but it's absolutely on the mark and I couldn't have known it in any rational way because how would I know that person and how would I know that they were expecting a letter from somebody or they were doing this?
	But I would tell them this and it's almost like a bit of a party trick.
	From my point of view, like most Joes in the street though, I really do not want to go any further with that.
	You know, you've gone a stage further.
	Oh, I have, yeah.
	I mean, I've really gone a stage further.
	And I mean, we're doing quite a few big events now coming up this year.
	Plus also next year, we're talking of doing some tours next year.
	But the reason I want to do that is really to help people.
	You know, I don't want to be there as entertainment.
	That's the last thing I ever want to be Clastels.
	What I want to do is actually help people move on in the life.
	Let me say that.
	I want to help people, you know, accept that, you know what, there is life after death out there.
	And I know that, as we say, due to legal reasons, insurance reasons, we have to state that what we do is entertainment purposes.
	But I think all that that does is it turns it round and it turns it into, you know, a soap opera really, doesn't it, when you start saying entertainment purposes?
	Well, I used to have to do on radio the standard disclaimer.
	I would always say at the beginning that, of course, this is offered for entertainment purposes.
	And I would always end with the line, don't live your life by it, which I thought was a good coverall line.
	But I remember the biggest problem we ever had on the radio show was we did, with a medium called Becky Walsh, who now lives in the US, I believe, we did a live seance.
	Now, there are very, very strict rules about that kind of thing.
	And a few years ago, you were just not allowed to even go there.
	Well, we did, and we had to take a commercial break while the thing was actually happening.
	So while she was doing whatever she was doing, we were playing commercials out, and we came back at the back end of the initiation, invocation, whatever it was.
	And Becky had a table in the room.
	And the idea was that we would all have our hands around this table and the table would tip.
	And a bell that was placed on the top of the table, this is the oldest one in the book, isn't it, Barry?
	Bell that was placed on the table would obviously ring because the table was tipping and it would slip off.
	Well, I said, if you fake this one, I will shop you on live national radio.
	Well, it happened.
	It tipped.
	I don't know what tipped it.
	I still don't know where that came from.
	But we had to do the standard disclaimer and we had to make sure that everybody knew that this was being provided to them for entertainment purposes.
	But at least we were able to do it.
	Which is useful.
	Yeah, it is.
	And I mean, people very often ask me about radio shows and say, you know, will you do readings online?
	And actually, no, I won't.
	I refuse to do them now.
	Why won't you do phone readings?
	I have a good make called Christian Dion in the States who started in the UK.
	And whenever I put him on the radio and I'm doing a radio show, the last time I was in Liverpool last year, he says, open the lines and he tells people stuff on the phone.
	I don't have a problem with it.
	What I have a problem with is obviously things such as Ofcom, et cetera, in terms of you're not allowed to do it.
	That's the regulator in the UK.
	Yeah, that's the problem for me.
	I mean, if I do phone calls into the USA, then I will do phone readings with people.
	You know, people love it out there and we keep them very short, very quick.
	You know, and I would do it in the UK if we weren't so restricted in terms of what people can do on the radio.
	Isn't that interesting?
	I think a lot of it depends on the skill of the person who's actually doing the show.
	You know, you have to keep adding in those health warnings.
	You have to be there as the responsible anchor for the thing.
	And I think if you do that, it's okay, really.
	If you're completely wacko and if you tell people your uncle Fred is telling you that you have some kind of medical condition that you must go and see the doctor about, otherwise it will kill you.
	Well, then that is highly irresponsible.
	It is.
	And the other difficulty you've got on radio is you don't actually know the full background about people.
	And that's not in terms of knowing information.
	It's people who are on, who've got medical conditions, for instance.
	You know, the last thing you want to do is give somebody a reading who it's really going to upset their life or it might upset them in terms of medical conditions, that sort of thing.
	So that's why I prefer not to do it unless you've got somebody actually governing it for you.
	And I mean, we did a radio show with Radio Nottingham actually a couple of weeks ago, and we opened the lines up for people to ring in and ask me questions.
	And the problem that we have, because of the market that we work in, we get a lot of what I call stalkers in the market, you know, people who they, you know, we've had issues with people.
	We've had to take some matters legal with it.
	And basically, you know, the thing that I'm always very wary of is, is that actually the person that's phoning in or is that somebody phoning in under another name?
	Well, that's always a problem.
	But then again, that can be, well, should be reasonably weeded out for you so you don't have to face those things.
	So you've got people who are addicted to your service and keep coming to you, is that right?
	Yeah, we do.
	Yeah, very much so.
	I mean, you know, people who come to our events, obviously, you know, constantly keep coming back time and time again.
	And that's not a problem.
	That doesn't bother me.
	But shouldn't you say up front at the beginning, look, you know, we can give you one reading, we can give you maybe two readings, but if you keep coming back, we cannot tell you anything different.
	No, you can't.
	And that's where I will stop that with people.
	I won't allow that to happen.
	If we're doing what we call a ghost event or a paranormal event, then that's great.
	Because what that means is that if people keep coming back, it means that we're doing something that they like.
	But in terms of doing readings or doing a public demonstration, if people keep coming to me for something, and we've had it, you know, we've had it where people have been going through relationship breakups and, you know, they'll want to book in every month to come and see me.
	And in the end, we just say, no, sorry, we can't help you anymore.
	What you actually need to do is move to another level.
	You need to move to see a counselor or you need to move to see somebody who can actually help you on your level.
	And that's not me just shunning it.
	That's me taking a responsibility to say, I've realized in my mind that this person isn't after proof of life after death.
	What they actually want to do is just talk to somebody and I'm not the person that they need to talk to.
	Well, that I can understand.
	You know, we've all been in situations where it might be nice to talk to somebody, but I'm not sure whether my first choice would be a medium.
	But there are, as we both know, there are those people out there.
	And it's a huge responsibility on you to steer them to something that really is going to help them.
	Well, it is because people start assuming that you think there's a problem with them or they'll turn around and say, you know, oh, are you trying to say that there's something not right?
	And it's, no, it's not that.
	What you're looking at is the, or you're looking after the person's best interests.
	You know, you're wanting them to actually solve things in the life, but a medium can't do it.
	They need to see a counsellor.
	And we see this so much, Howard, with people who are having bereavement problems, people who can't let go of somebody who's bereaved.
	And, you know, we do have to sit them down and say, look, you know, come and see me.
	Come and have a chat with me by all means.
	You know, we don't charge for it.
	You know, come and see us.
	But I will be very honest with them and say, it's not me that you need.
	What you need to do is see a counselor.
	And we always have a list of counselors or people who we can pass people on to.
	Because, you know, the last thing I want people to do is keep coming to me and thinking that I'm going to solve problems in their life because I'm not going to do that.
	You said you didn't charge for that initial consultation.
	I presume for readings you do charge.
	We do charge readings, yes.
	Yes, we do charge readings.
	As I said, you know.
	And what would you say to people who will email me and say, a gift like yours, you should not be charging money for?
	We know you've got to eat, but you shouldn't really be charging people a fee for something like this.
	No, and I love that.
	I love it when people do that because the way that I throw that back is, does that mean then if you invited a qualified electrician or craftsperson into your home, would you expect them not to charge you for a service?
	It's exactly the same in my eyes.
	You know, we've been, people have been trained, we've spent money, I've gone on courses, I spent a lot of money going to the Arthur Findlay College down in Stanstead.
	You know, I've spent a lot of my time traveling up and down the motorway for people.
	And I do do a lot of things free of charge.
	Charity events, I never charge for a charity event.
	You know, we support a lot of things locally.
	And the reason we support it locally is because I don't have a problem turning up a little bit of publicity for them and actually helping them to make money out of me by selling tickets.
	So we come back to that word again.
	It's responsibility and it's really down to you.
	Yeah, yeah.
	You're a professional like any other professional.
	People must understand the terms and conditions that you adhere to and that they must adhere to when they see you.
	Exactly.
	And you know, the other way, Howard, that I look at this is remembering, you know, we talk about people having free will or having their own choice.
	If people don't want to come and see me, that's not an issue to me.
	That's fine.
	You know, but if somebody wants to come and see me, they're coming to see me because it's their choice to come and see me.
	They want to come and see me for a specific reason.
	And what happens if a message you get about somebody, and maybe you will be told something about somebody's future or something that has happened or is about to happen, and it's really bad?
	Now, how you handle that is absolutely key.
	You know, my Story: I went to a woman in London who my sister recommended years ago.
	Everybody went to see her at the time.
	I won't name her.
	I don't even know if she's still around.
	But it was a deeply, deeply disturbing experience for me, aged about 22, 23, whatever I was, when the woman would not actually read for me because apparently there were things going to happen that were not very nice, which indeed did transpire.
	But it certainly didn't help me to have somebody react like that.
	She almost closed the book and sent me away.
	And do you know what, Howard?
	I can relate to that.
	I mean, there's many, many years ago, you know, many years ago.
	We've all done it.
	We've all been to see a medium.
	I did it, oh, I can't remember, probably 20 years ago, 15 years ago, something like that.
	And I remember going to see a local medium who was very respected in the market, very well known.
	I remember booking her probably three or four times.
	And when I used to get there, she either wasn't in or she'd ring up and cancel just before.
	And I remember one time I caught her at the front door.
	She opened a front door and she just said to me, I can't read you and shut the door on me.
	God almighty.
	It really scared me because I thought, Yeah, and you actually, you know, you actually go away from that thinking, does that mean I'm going to have a car accident?
	Does that mean that something's going to happen to me?
	Well, I'll tell you what, in my case, for years, I kept thinking, is it over now?
	You know, I didn't have my, they were mostly career experiences, and I kept thinking, well, you know, obviously she saw some bad stuff, and I think I've probably been through it now, but is there more?
	Do you know?
	I mean, we never, ever, ever would do that to anybody.
	Never, ever.
	So what do you do then?
	If you're in that situation and what you detect is maybe not so nice, how do you handle it?
	I would handle it, number one, very professionally.
	You know, I would hopefully put it on a basis and say, do you know what?
	If Spirit's giving me this information, that's meant to be passed on in some form of way.
	However, you know, and let's look at a classic scenario.
	Let's just throw a scenario in that if spirit turned around and said, that person's mother's going to die or father's going to die, you know, I would try and handle that very professionally.
	And I would talk about the mother not being well or the father.
	And I would talk about, you know, there may be some care needed there somewhere further down the line.
	But I would never, ever, ever give anything that was going to hurt the person and say, you know what, that person's going to die.
	And we've seen this on public events.
	When we've done paranormal events, one of the things we use on events, as you might know, is Ouija boards.
	And one of the things I always say to people is, be very, very careful what you ask.
	Because I remember doing an event quite a few years ago with a team of people.
	And one young lady there, her father was very critically ill with cancer, very seriously ill.
	And she actually asked and said to the Ouija board, you know, is my dad going to die?
	And of course, the board said yes.
	And I said to her, you shouldn't have asked that.
	You should not have asked that question because what you shouldn't ask is something you can't cope with an answer of.
	And do you know what?
	I wouldn't want to know that.
	Well, I'm very surprised that you use Ouija boards because from what I understand, the risk with them is enormous and you've just proved that there is a risk.
	How do they work?
	There are people I know, there are some mediums that I know who would say the Ouija board taps into the darkest of energies and nobody should be using this.
	What would you say to that?
	Do you know what?
	This is one of the things I love talking about Ouija boards.
	I mean, I've used Ouija boards for years.
	And what I always say to people is use it with the best intentions or the right intentions.
	Okay.
	When we talk about, you know, people always talk about positive and negative.
	And I always say to them, well, what do you mean by negative energy?
	You know, what do you mean by bad spirits?
	You know, are we talking of devils or are we talking of people who have committed a crime in the life?
	You know, and this is what I always look at because, you know, touch wood, hand on heart.
	I have never, ever, ever used a Ouija board and suddenly got the devil talking to me or got something that felt so uncomfortable that really made me feel, you know, feel unprotected, let's say that.
	But do you warn people that you can still buy these things, that they shouldn't really be messing with them in their own homes?
	Do you tell them that?
	So I always, always tell people that.
	I always say to them, never, ever play around with one unless you know what you're doing.
	You know, I always make them aware that, you know what, you can still buy this as a board game.
	It's sold in many children's stores, which it still is.
	And, you know, I try and give them a little bit of history about the Ouija board, you know, in terms of it's, you know, 100 years old.
	It's a well-respected piece of equipment when it was made.
	However, it's actually turned into a bit of a game now, a gimmick for children.
	And this is when we start getting upset.
	This is when we start getting interference because what you get is children playing around with things that they don't understand or they don't know.
	And if I was using a Ouija board with a group of people and I felt that the energy wasn't right, you know, it wasn't comfortable.
	And I'm not talking of demonic forces here.
	I'm just talking of somebody who was probably not very well connected with us, somebody who was just trying to force the way into a give a message.
	I'd actually stop it and close it off and say, no, we're not doing that.
	We're not working with that.
	So are there forces, are there entities, dimensions, are there things that you could connect with that aren't nice?
	And if there are things like that out there, what are they?
	Where do they come from?
	Well, okay, right.
	Let's just look at this because this is what I was saying a few minutes ago in terms of evil.
	Okay, people talk about evil, okay?
	And when we talk about evil, what are we referring to particularly?
	What we're referring to is the Bible says that there's evil forces out there or that the devil's out there, you know, and if you do anything wrong, the devil will come and get you.
	Well, that's never actually been proven.
	It's never been proven.
	And the way that I always talk to people about, number one, is, you know, I talk to them about religion and I say, what we have to remember is in terms of religion, you know, remember that the church wanted to control a lot of areas, it wanted to control a lot of countries.
	You know, we talk about a Bible that's been rewritten so many times.
	You know, the Romans were the biggest instigators of rewriting the Bible.
	You know, and what did the Romans wanted to do?
	They wanted to control a nation.
	So what's the best way to control a nation is you create negativity or you create something that if people are so scared of it, what they're going to do, they're going to run the opposite way and come to you.
	So I do have issues when people start talking to me about good and bad because this is what I'm trying to say is what do we determine as being bad?
	You know, do we really believe in our hearts that there's demonic forces out there that are going to come and get us and possess us?
	Well, no, we don't, or I don't personally, because I don't believe in possessions For a start, it's never been proven to me.
	I have never had it happen to me.
	And every person who comes, you know, people that come on my events and say, Oh, I always get possessed, I always say, Well, tell me about it.
	And when they're telling you about it, it's not possession at all, it's their own imagination that starts taking over.
	It's never, it's something that's never been proven.
	So I have big issues when people start saying, Oh, well, that's evil.
	Oh, that's evil, because it's like, well, no, it's not evil, actually.
	We accept that, you know, people who have committed crimes in the life or people who have committed murders, for instance, will come along as a lower energy because they come across very sort of misunderstood at times in terms of energy.
	So in terms of demonic, in terms of, you know, the devil, I've got to say in my heart, no, it doesn't exist.
	It's never been proven to me.
	Well, I had a medium on this show a few months ago called Sandrea Moss's in the West Midlands, and she said that she sometimes connected with entities that were not very nice, that looked like, well, the classical image of demons that you see on church walls and that kind of thing.
	And she said, those things are out there and they're very dangerous.
	You're saying those things are not out there?
	I'm saying that they're not out there.
	I'm saying they're not out there.
	It's never been proven.
	You know, in all honesty, if she was getting things like that, what exactly would they want to say?
	And what sort of information could they possibly give you?
	You know, remembering when we're working as mediums, we're trying to prove that there's an existence of life out there.
	We're not trying to prove that there's demonic forces because what really is that going to prove to us?
	It's going to prove nothing.
	So I don't accept that there's demonic forces or people of lower energies like that.
	Barry, when we die, and again, here's a question that I've asked lots of mediums and always got a different answer, so I'll be fascinated to hear yours.
	Where do we go?
	What happens to us?
	Oh, right.
	Okay.
	Blind me.
	Okay.
	Yeah, because do you know what?
	I'm still waiting to hear it.
	I mean, one of the things I do in Nottinghamshire, Howard, is I do a lot of work with cancer patients.
	I do a lot of work with patients that are getting ready to pass over on their last legs, whichever way you want to say that.
	And people, first thing they always say to me, and I've had this from my own experience when my mother passed, they always talk about seeing lights in the corner of the room.
	Or they'll talk about one of their members of family who's already in the spirit world coming to collect them, you know, and they'll say, I can see them.
	My mother, for instance, I'll talk about that scenario because it's something that I can, was when my mother was very ill, and we knew that my mother had got probably hours to live.
	One of the things she kept saying was, my mum's coming to collect me.
	She's here, look.
	You know, and in, you know, she'd obviously passed over probably, what, 20, 20 years before, I think it was off the top of my head.
	But my mother was still adamant and she kept describing her mother and that she was holding her hand out.
	And at one point, her mother had turned her back on her for some reason because she was talking to the doctors or something.
	And that's what I always look at.
	And I think, right, okay, so spirit always talk about, you know, we're coming to collecture.
	They talk about, you know, you'll see this tunnel of light, whatever they want to refer to it as.
	And as I'm saying, from people's points of view, when they're ready to pass or when they're very ill, they always talk of people collecting them and this tunnel of light coming through.
	So that to me depicts that, you know what, there is an element of truth there somewhere.
	We know that because we're getting this from both sides.
	We know that people have out-of-body experiences.
	That's been proven time and time again.
	And, you know, people can talk about situations that have happened while they've been fully asleep.
	And also, let's put that into another context, that when people have passed, why is it that some of their loved ones will wake up at the exact time that they've passed and say that they've been to see them?
	So we do have to analyze that.
	In terms of where they go beyond that, do you know what?
	I've got to be honest with you and say, I don't know, because I get so many different stories from the spirit world, because all I get from the spirit world is we're at peace now.
	You know, we're in a place of knowledge, a place of learning.
	We get educated here.
	You know, we meet up with loved ones who have passed before us.
	It's a lovely thought, isn't it?
	And do you hold with the traditional view that a lot of people say that we have, when we die, we have this little limbo phase where we're guided to a place that's neither here nor there.
	And then we go on to somewhere, which is that place of enlightenment you talked about.
	And some people talk about it, isn't it, a summer land, something like that?
	It's a perpetual summertime.
	It's a place of great understanding.
	It's a place where everything and everyone is at peace.
	Yeah.
	And you see, that brings me on to another subject.
	You're throwing some wonderful questions in here for me, Howard, and I love this because this is where it lets me talk about something else.
	Because very often, I remember a couple of incidents that I'll tell you about.
	I had a young lady once at an event.
	She came up to see me during the break time and she says, can you tell me if you've got a message from my father?
	And I said, well, you know, I was obviously not working, so I was having a drink.
	And I said to her, tell me why do you want to know that?
	And she says, because my father committed suicide and every medium I've been to see told me that he'd never come through because he'd gone down to the lower realms.
	In other words, he'd gone to the dark side.
	Well, that's what they tell you, isn't it?
	Yeah.
	And I said to her, I says, do you know something?
	I said, never accept that.
	Never accept it.
	You know, and I can't remember whether I did give her a reading afterwards or not.
	But I said to her, don't ever accept that because it doesn't matter what crime you commit, which way you die, we all end up in the same source.
	That's what spirit tell us.
	So whether you've committed suicide, whether you've been murdered, you all go to the same result.
	You all go to the same place.
	But I'd like to think there was something for those people, suicide is never the right way out, in my personal belief, and that's just my own personal thought about it, but there must be some kind of education process or something that they go through.
	I mean, I've been warned, you know, in my lifetime, people have said, you know, those who commit suicide have a lot to deal with.
	It's not over for them when they get to wherever they're going.
	They will be re-educated.
	They will see the error of their ways.
	And yes, people do say that, but you know what?
	Again, let me just talk about something else here, because very often mediums will say, oh, somebody can't come through for a year until they've passed.
	So once they've passed, you have to wait a year for them to connect back.
	I've never had that, Howard.
	I have brought people back within hours.
	I've brought people back within weeks of them passing days.
	I've never had a scenario where somebody's passed into spirit and then spirit worlds say, No, sorry, it can't come back and talk.
	Yeah, it's not their time.
	And Barry, what about the reverse of that then?
	And I've been told this one because I wanted to connect with my mother who died very sadly, very suddenly.
	It's four years ago now, and you know, it still seems like yesterday that this thing happened.
	But I was told at the time, and part of me believes this, that in her case, she stuck around us all to make sure we were all right for a while.
	And I had a dream, but so did my sister along those lines.
	And now I feel intuitively and instinctively, having had that little intermediate phase, she's gone on to something better.
	She's not really as close to me as she was.
	She's gone to something else.
	I'm sure she's aware of me out there, but she did that part where she made sure we were all okay and then she moved on.
	That is one of the things that I always say to people.
	You know, when somebody passed, or somebody's passed before, let's say a child's been born into the family or before a big sort of ceremony in the family celebration.
	And spirit do talk about hanging on.
	They'll talk about waiting behind.
	But then we've heard this story, haven't we, many times.
	You know, when people are ready to pass and they'll say, I want to see my son or I want to see my husband.
	And as soon as they've seen that person, they pass over into the spirit world very, very quickly.
	So we know that people have that energy.
	They are able to hold on.
	And from what you're saying, you know, and I do agree with you 100% on that, by the way, because we know that there's been circumstances where somebody's passed a spirit before something's happened in the family or, you know, a big situation's about to happen.
	And people will talk about disturbances in the home.
	They'll talk about pictures being knocked off.
	They'll talk about always feeling being followed around the home or things happening in the home.
	So we know that spirit do have that ability to be able to be earthbound, let's say, for a while if they want to be.
	But then I do believe, and my mother was exactly the same, and this is where it's lovely talking to you, my mother was the same because when my mother passed, within hours of her passing, she'd come back to not only me, but my sister, my father, my brother, and other members of the family.
	But then what we found was once she'd started dealing with situations or once we'd started dealing with things that were left undone, she started pulling away a little bit.
	She started holding back a little bit.
	You know, and the only time my mother comes through to talk to me now is number one, if she wants to tell me off, which she still does.
	Really?
	Or, yeah, and I mean, the best one with my mother, which always used to make me laugh, was when I was getting ready for events or for a stage show, whichever, she always used to come and tell me I put too much aftershave on.
	That was always her opening line.
	And it was like, I always, you know, she did that numerous times to me.
	And presumably she did that in life as well.
	Oh, gosh, yeah, yeah, very much so.
	My mother loved, she loved, the thing that we've always said, my mother always, she always used to say, I can do it just because.
	And there was never a reason with my mum.
	It was just because, you know, and that was the thing that always used to make us laugh with my mum.
	You know, she used to ring you up at any time during the day or night and not in the middle of the night.
	But, you know, you'd say, you've just rang me.
	And she'd say, yes, but I'm just ringing you again just because.
	And it was so comical.
	I like your mum.
	Oh, she was wonderful.
	But, you know, I found, you know, with doing my spiritual work that she has started slowly pulling back.
	She started going over to other members of the family.
	You know, we've got a lot of, she's got a lot of grandchildren when she passed who she dearly, dearly loved.
	You know, and I accept that in my heart, that, you know what, they actually need her more than I do now.
	You know, they need somebody to help them, you know, grow up, somebody to help them be there at times.
	So I don't have a problem with that.
	I just accept that that's what's happening.
	Barry, do you feel that you can call on her at times when you might need a bit of support?
	Yeah, for years I did the live voiceover on the British Comedy Awards on ITV.
	And it's a big and very scary gig once a year.
	I couldn't relax at Christmas before I'd actually done that voiceover.
	And I did it for eight years.
	And, you know, towards the end, of course, I didn't have my mum around, but I would traditionally phone her up just before going down to the live transmission.
	So in the last couple of years, what I used to do was just before leaving the dressing room, I would stop and pause a moment and I would say, well, mum, we're doing it again.
	Help me through this one.
	And I would often feel as I came out of it at the end that she had helped me through that nerve-wracking thing.
	And do you know, we've all done that, Howard.
	You know, I remember doing that with my grandmother many, many years ago when I was at school, you know, and he was going in for an exam and you say, come on in, Grand, if you're there, come and help me, you know, come and work with me.
	And we do, you know, we all, do you know what amazes me?
	What really amazes me with people is people come to my events as sceptics.
	But, you know, they'll come to the event and they'll say, oh, I don't really believe.
	You know, we'll have the good mixture.
	We have believers and non-believers.
	And then, you know, I'll say to them, well, what do you do if something goes wrong?
	Well, I always talk to my dad in spirit.
	So are you a skeptic or are you a believer then?
	And this is what I love about people because people don't fully understand what they do believe in at times.
	You know, and it's like you're saying there, you know, you used to speak to your mum before a show and just say, come on, mum, help me through it.
	You know, make sure this is all right for me.
	So we all do have a belief.
	We have something.
	We know that something's there.
	But the biggest problem with what we do in terms of mediumship is that it just can't be proven.
	We've never been able to physically, physically prove it and put it, you know, if we could sit in a room with a hundred other people and, you know, I'm saying, oh yeah, I can hear this voice.
	And then everybody else puts the hand up and says, you know what, I heard that too.
	And I heard what she's just said to you at the same time, then we'd probably have a bigger belief pattern, wouldn't we?
	Yeah, and that's what it is a lot of the time.
	It's the fact that, you know, Barry sat there hearing a voice and everybody else in the audience is thinking, well, I can't hear that.
	You know, is that really real?
	Or is that Barry's own imagination?
	And the only thing that makes it any different for me is the information that I'm able to give to people.
	That final little bit of proof, like you were saying earlier about your friend who used to like steak, that final piece of information, whether that be, you know, a grandmother talking about her jewelry or a mother talking about her children or a father talking to me about his tool shed or whatever scenario, and they're things that we could possibly never know.
	You know, how does a medium know something about somebody's life when they've never met them before?
	And that is something that is very hard to ask.
	I mean, there are those who will tell me, well, it's just to do with the collective unconscious.
	So that, you know, we're all animals, we all function at a level that we cannot perceive, but we can all read minds and do that sort of thing.
	And that's all this is.
	It's not spirit.
	It's not the afterlife.
	It's simply one human being connecting with another human being on a level that nobody really understands.
	And that's one of the ways I always say to people when I'm training them or working with them.
	I always talk to them about the touching of two minds.
	You know, that's what we're trying to do.
	That's what we're trying to achieve.
	And I think we've got to be very open to that.
	You know, we do have to accept that we know information comes, but we don't necessarily know where or how.
	And perhaps in our lifetimes, we never will, but it's something that's out there.
	All right, give me your knock and dead killer, if you pardon the expression, killer story, the one that's absolutely amazed you from your career so far as a medium.
	Okay, right.
	One story that really does stick in my mind, and that's with the lady's become a very good friend for me.
	I had, in fact, I'm going to give you two.
	I've got to give you two.
	One of them was about a lady who I met at one of the old events that I used to run or used to do.
	And she came to the event, and I remember giving her a private message there.
	And one of the messages was, you're going to trace your family, but I said you won't find the family link because your grandfather was adopted.
	And she actually sent me an email six months later.
	And she said, I can't believe how you knew that.
	And I said, what?
	She says, I've just started tracing my family tree and I can't find my grandfather's family because I've just found out that it's from his birth certificate.
	He was adopted into the family.
	And you couldn't.
	How could you have known that?
	Never knew her, didn't know her, never met her before in my life, but subsequently we've become good friends.
	Another one, another story that I'd love to share with you is of a lady and her husband actually who come to see me a couple of years ago.
	And again, they've subsequently become very good friends of mine.
	And this revolves around a situation with mediums.
	They'd been to see a very good medium, locally based, somebody who was very well known, and the medium had said, your daughter's going to get better.
	Their daughter had got leukemia very severely.
	And the medium had kept saying to them, your daughter will get better, your daughter will get better.
	And they actually then began to rely on that medium.
	And this is what we was talking about earlier in terms of relying on mediums.
	Dependency.
	Yeah, yeah.
	And they became very dependent on this one medium.
	And in the end, the medium kept saying, oh, I'm sending healing.
	My guy's been to see your daughter and he's told me that she's okay now.
	He's healed her and he's made her better.
	Well, their daughter actually died.
	And one of the things that broke my heart after that was they tried to contact this medium just to talk to this medium.
	And she wouldn't take the calls.
	She wouldn't acknowledge them.
	She wouldn't return the calls.
	She didn't want to speak to them.
	And it was, I thought that was so heartbreaking.
	And like I say, they actually come to see me.
	We did communicate with their daughter and I've done it more than once now.
	I've given them information about their daughter that really helped them.
	Number one, helped them grieve, but number two, helped them move on in their life.
	But the one thing that's always stuck with me is why would anybody, anybody say that they can help somebody and then turn around and say, sorry, I don't want to know you now?
	Well, that sounds astonishing, but that is a very good reason, I think, that people would say we need tighter laws on all of this.
	And some people would even go as far as saying it should be like the old days and it's banned.
	Yeah, yeah.
	Well, yeah, you could say that.
	I mean, one of the things we're looking at at the moment, we work very much, as you know, with paranormal groups.
	I do a lot of work with a couple of companies in the UK who help organise paranormal events.
	And one of the things we're doing at the moment is we're actually taking a case up to government in terms of stopping some paranormal groups going into people's houses unless they have a form of qualification for it.
	Because we know out there, Howard, that people can set up a paranormal group.
	Me and you could do it now if we wanted and say, do you know what?
	We've got Barry John's paranormal team here.
	You know, it's me and Howard.
	We could go into people's properties, you know, people who have got children.
	We could go into people's properties who have got children with learning disabilities.
	You could go in there with adults who are on medication.
	You might go in there with people who've got hoards of money stashed away somewhere in the house.
	And do you know what?
	None of us exactly know what some of these people are doing in those properties.
	So what we're trying to do is put a case together for government and say, look, guys, and we're working with local MPs on this at the moment, to say, we need to put something in place.
	We need some sort of formal training that can put people through a formal training that talks to them about counselling.
	It talks to them about education on people's medication, for instance.
	It talks to them about how to work with children with learning disabilities or people that have got abusive behaviour.
	And what it does is at the end of that, they will go away with some form of certificate that can actually say, do you know what, we've been through a training course.
	We know how to use the equipment we're using.
	We know that, you know, if somebody needs counseling, we know how to do it or we know where to send them.
	And I think that's one of the things that we have to be mindful of nowadays is, you know, let's look at legalities nowadays.
	America has been swamped by, you know, legal cases and there are all these, you know, no fee, no win cases.
	You know, anybody can take a case to court.
	But what we don't want to happen in the UK is for all these genuine mediums and genuine paranormal groups to be tarred with the same brush as what some of the others have been.
	But that's the problem, isn't it?
	And I don't know whether any law and how you would legislate in this area, God knows how.
	I hope he does, because I certainly wouldn't know how to.
	There is no law that could regulate good and bad mediums, because who is to know who is good and who is bad?
	You know, you tell me you're a good medium and you sound very ethical in the way that you do it to me.
	But at the end of the day, it's a judgment, isn't it?
	My view of you is that you probably are a good medium and you do do it in a very ethical way.
	But beyond that, what law could possibly legislate for this?
	Well, that's what we're trying to find out at the moment, isn't it?
	Because do you know what?
	You're absolutely right.
	How do we tell that a medium's qualified?
	How do we know that we have it ourselves?
	Sometimes we will ring up and cancel bookings with people because I know that I'm not in the right frame of mind to do them that day.
	Well, that's good.
	Maybe the way to tackle this, just thinking of this with my news hat on at the moment, the way to tackle this would be from the other end to have penalties for people who behave in an irresponsible manner.
	And it's easy to work out what that irresponsible manner is because you and I have just talked about it a couple of times.
	Those who treat people in this insensitive way possibly pass on dangerous pieces of information that may or may not be correct.
	Maybe we can regulate the way that people conduct themselves rather than actually say, well, here's a training course.
	You've got a qualification and all the rest.
	Because I think that would be a minefield.
	But as you say, Barry, it needs to be looked at.
	It does, definitely.
	And it needs some form of control putting in place.
	Okay, very quickly, we don't have a lot of time.
	One of the other things that you say you do is healing.
	Tell me about that.
	Oh, blinding.
	Okay, yeah, okay.
	Yeah, that's something that I've always had a passion for.
	You know, we've heard it said many times, haven't we?
	You know, people will come up and say, I've got healing hands.
	I've got healing hands.
	But I've always done healing from probably, what, 15 years old, 16 years old.
	And I don't know how it happens.
	All that I do is I put hands on or lay hands on people.
	And I just feel this sudden overwhelming urge to try and help people or to send them energy, if that's the way to put it.
	But what I did get heavily involved with was shamanic drumming.
	And, you know, I spent a lot of time working with Indians and being taught by the Indians.
	I actually got invited once to smoke the peace pipe and choked on it at one point.
	But it's great because I love the drumming side of it because what I love is the vibration that people get through the body.
	And we work with a lot of people who've got back problems, a lot of people who've got, you know, internal stomach problems, that sort of feeling.
	And what we found is working with them, and remembering this is the people that say this, not me, what they say is that because of the vibration of the drum, it really does help resonate a sound within the body.
	And what it does is it helps them cope with it better, let's say.
	So one of the things I would say is we don't cure, we can't cure.
	We can't diagnose because we don't know.
	We're not qualified in terms of medicine.
	But what we know is that what we do in terms of the shamanic drumming, there's a vibration there that people enjoy and it helps them in some form or way.
	Now, whether that be their own mind or whether that be a physical improvement, it's difficult to tell.
	And of course, it gives you a very useful peg to hang things on because you can say, well, it's the drumming.
	What did it?
	Exactly.
	Yeah, exactly.
	All right.
	Okay.
	And we have to say, and even though I'm on the internet where you're supposed to be able to say whatever you like, I always like to make this point that if you do see somebody who claims or purports to be a healer, you must first see your GP and always go to the medical person.
	And I'm sure you would concur with that, Barry?
	I would.
	And, you know, if you are seeing somebody like that, number one, ask for insurance.
	But same with any medium, ask for details of their insurance details.
	Oh, do you have insurance?
	I have insurance as well.
	What do you have insurance against?
	We have public liability insurance just in case somebody wants to take something further what we've said or somebody misinterprets what we've said.
	But obviously our insurance covers us not only from a medium point of view, it covers us from a paranormal medium point of view as well because of events such as people fall or slip, etc.
	But the main one that obviously I'm interested in, and you know, this was brought about by the Fraudulent Mediums Act, where every medium now should have their own insurance just in case.
	Well, I'm glad that that's the case because they certainly should, and that should be a very minimal requirement of such people.
	I found this conversation fascinating, Barry.
	I didn't know what to expect.
	You were recommended to me by a mutual friend, Jackie.
	Thank you.
	And I'm very, very pleased with what I've heard.
	You sound to me, for a man who deals with things that are beyond what we can see, to be incredibly down to earth.
	And I can see why you've succeeded at what you do.
	Opinions, of course, will differ as to whether what you do is something that is legitimate, genuine, and helpful.
	I will get all the emails about that.
	But a fascinating conversation.
	Thanks again, Howard.
	Now, I've really enjoyed it.
	Thank you very much for your time, Barry.
	And when is your next event?
	I know you've got one coming up in June, but people will be hearing that beyond that event.
	So what about looking ahead the next few weeks?
	Yeah, okay.
	I'm at, I was trying to think, I know I've got Woodchester Mansion coming up.
	I've got Woodchester Mansion.
	What's that?
	Woodchester Mansion is an old Gothic mansion in Gloucestershire, and it's a beautiful old house.
	It was never finished.
	It was used a lot for training during the Second World War by Americans and English.
	But it was never finished.
	But it's a beautiful old Gothic mansion, very mysterious, unbelievable stuff.
	We've had things happen there.
	You know, we've had people doing scrying through mirrors.
	We've had table moving.
	We've had things being knocked over in the middle of circles, etc.
	But then obviously beyond that, we're working with Colin Fry on the 16th of July down in Portsmouth.
	We're doing a big event with Colin.
	The week before that, we're at Alton Towers with Kieran O'Keefe.
	So we really do have something every week.
	It's a bit of a range.
	Yeah, have a look on the website.
	There are hundreds of them.
	Your website is?
	My website is www.barryjohn.com, and that's Barry Spelt with an IE.
	I've got one to recommend to you.
	One of the guests I had on the radio show, one of my last guests, was a guy who'd written a book about a building in Cambridge, the old Cambridge Aerodrome, the airport there that was used during the war by the RAF, that is apparently one of, well, it's claimed and purported to be one of the most haunted buildings in Britain.
	And somebody ought to go and stake that place out.
	And if you do it, I'd love to be there.
	I mean, that's what?
	The Cambridge Aerodrome.
	It's either Cambridge Airport, or I think in its day it was called Cambridge Aerodrome.
	But if you search it on the net, there's actually a book written by this guy who I had on as a guest about this fascinating building where things like spanners pick themselves up and throw them at the backs of people who visit and that sort of stuff.
	I mean, the place you'd love it.
	You've set me a task now.
	I'm actually going to look for that in a few minutes on the internet.
	Right.
	And if you do, I'll bring the recording gear and we'll stake it out.
	Wonderful.
	Yeah, please do.
	Barry John, thank you very, very much.
	Thanks again, Harold.
	Thank you.
	Well, I'm really glad we had that conversation.
	Barry John, who is very clearly much more than just another medium.
	Let me know what you think about the show.
	Tell me what you thought about this one, any future ideas for guests we could possibly bid for and put on here.
	And if you'd like to make a donation, please go to the website www.theunexplained.tv and you can do all of those things there.
	www.theunexplained.tv is the website designed by Adam Cornwell at Creative Hotspot in Liverpool.
	Martin, once again, thank you for the marvelous theme tune.
	And above all else, thank you to you for being part of this independent show.
	We're not part of a corporation.
	We're not trying to sell you anything.
	We just simply feel that we need to be an independent voice and out there for you.
	And from your feedback, we seem to be doing something right.
	But we can always improve, which is why I need to hear from you.
	My name is Howard Hughes.

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