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Nov. 20, 2009 - The Unexplained - Howard Hughes
59:54
Edition 27

After the excitement of the on-location Editions of The Unexplained from The BeyondKnowledge Conference in Liverpool, this show is back in its London base for Edition 27.

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Across the UK, across continental North America and around the world on the internet, by webcast and podcast, my name is Howard Hughes and this is The Unexplained.
Well, thank you very much again for returning to the show and for keeping the faith with it.
A strange phenomenon seems to be happening.
I had tremendous email response.
It's still coming into the two special shows we did direct from the Beyond Knowledge Conference in Liverpool back in September with Richard C. Hoagland, who's going to be a guest on this show with an update.
Lots of response about that, but there seems to be something of a trend happening.
And it almost looks like some kind of organized campaign, although I don't think it is really.
But if I was a conspiracy theorist, then I might start to think along those lines.
I am getting more and more emails from new people that I haven't heard from before saying, I miss your radio show, have been trying to find you, and I'm really pleased you kept the show going online.
Now, bear in mind the fact that the national radio show on Talk Sport ended three and a half years ago in the UK.
That is a long time in anybody's book.
But people still remember the show.
So it had a very definite audience.
And it seems that even three and a half years down the track, I'm reconnecting with that audience.
So that's really, really nice.
Plus, of course, a big audience in the northwest of England because I've been doing shows for City Talk 105.9 out of Liverpool and people are finding me and this show that way.
So, you know, whichever way I'm grateful.
Sadly, this time round, I can't name-check everybody who's emailed because we would be here all day, but thank you again.
If you want to get in touch with the show, to suggest you want to link to it, to bring me a guest suggestion, to do anything to make a comment on the show, make some suggestions on the way that I'm doing it, go to the website, www.theunexplained.tv and send me an email through the site.
And I will get back to you as soon as I possibly can.
I know there are some emails I haven't got back to yet, but I will.
Now, that's that out the way.
This time round, something very different.
I'm going to bring you somebody you won't have heard before.
And I was always very keen when I set this show up on radio and brought it to the net, that it should feature people who are not only the famous ones.
So you don't have to be a James Van Prague or a Richard C. Hoagland or somebody like Uri Geller, who's internationally renowned to be on the show.
It's nice to have those people on and we have, but also people who are not known.
And I'm going to bring you one of those people today.
And that is partly due to another phenomenon that seems to have started within the last month or so.
Now I am getting emails from publishers and potential guests suggesting themselves for interview on this show.
That, I think, means we are getting somewhere.
And it's a really nice feeling to know that because you have to consider how I'm doing this show.
On absolutely no budget, I am producing it myself.
Adam Cornwell, my wonderful young webmaster in Liverpool, is getting it out to you.
But that's it.
Just the two of us doing this show.
And we are competing with big, multinational, corporate, global, whatever media.
That gives me a real nice warm glow inside.
Of course, one day I'd like to get the show back on the radio.
But for now, this is a terrific way of reaching you wherever you happen to be.
Now, the guest who has suggested herself for this show and who I'm going to put on, I've never spoken to her before, but I just get a feeling she's going to be all right, is Sandria Mosses.
She is a clairvoyant and medium, but a very special one in the English Midlands.
So we'll talk to her in just a little while.
But first up, Richard C. Hoagland, American space expert, the star of the Beyond Knowledge Conference with his fascinating theories about Saturn and torsion field physics.
You might remember that from a previous edition.
If you don't, please go back to that.
I think it was edition 25.
We're going to do an update in just a second with Richard, but just to tell you a little story about him and his partner, Robin.
Now, a week or so after the conference, they came down to London, and I was already back down in London, and we hooked up for a day.
I had the most wonderful day with Richard and Robin.
He is a fascinating man.
She is a fascinating lady.
And I took them around various parts of London, took them back to their hotel, and we ended the night in a French restaurant in London near Waterloo, in London, near Waterloo train station here, if you know London.
And we had a marvelous time on a rainy night at the back end of the British summer in September.
It was terrific.
And it was nice to meet Richard in the flesh finally after having spoken to him on the phone, on the radio so many times.
I think that his work, whatever you may think about it, and I know he's got lots of debunkers on the internet, I think his work is beginning to reach a kind of critical mass.
And we'll get into why that might be in just a little while.
Just to say again, though, if you need to contact this show, I would love to hear from you.
This show runs on the feedback that I get from you.
So please remember the fact that it's a very, very small show.
And yes, of course, we check our statistics online.
But the best way for me to know that you're there and the best way for me to know that you like what we're doing or you don't is if you get in touch.
So www.theunexplained.tv is the website.
Please make contact with this show.
Right.
Before we talk to Sandria Moss's clairvoyant and medium in the UK, let's get to Richard C. Hoagland in the US for an update on his work and what's been happening since September.
Hello, Richard.
Howard, how are you?
I'm really, really good.
And it seems like only yesterday, but I know it was a couple of months ago that we were in Liverpool discussing all of these things.
And then we were in London discussing all of these things.
And a hell of a lot, it seems to me, has happened between then and now.
It certainly has.
I mean, look, first of all, I had to laugh because there you were in Liverpool giving that fantastic, I thought, presentation about torsion field physics, about the rings of Saturn and what might be in them and what all that was used for.
And I think it was about two weeks later there was an announcement from NASA that, what, they had discovered another ring of Saturn that they apparently couldn't see before and now they could.
Which, in our view, we call the art of misdirection.
Well, I think it was either an extraordinary coincidence, or I have to think having looked into all of this for long enough and having observed your work for long enough, maybe there's something more to it.
Well, there is something more because you cannot look at the solar system in infrared and not see all kinds of cool stuff.
And the Spitzer Telescope, which is the one That they used to actually get images of this new, very extended, very diffused, very overblown dusty ring, which is kind of like a gossamer tube around Saturn millions of miles away.
There's no way they could not have seen that years ago.
But the timing of announcing it as a brand new discovery, literally on the heels of what we talked about in Liverpool, is it is kind of curious, yes.
Now, you did talk about it in Liverpool, and you know, because we've talked about it.
I was very disappointed that you didn't get more media coverage.
I tried, and other people tried, and you didn't, and we did our best.
Do you think that the people who made that announcement knew about what you were talking about in Liverpool?
Do you think they got to hear about it?
Well, I think they did because some of what we did in Liverpool is on YouTube.
Right.
You know, we now live in the internet, in a global society, the so-called new sphere.
I think it was Thérèse Chardin who coined that term.
And so what you do on the other side of the pond, you know, the next morning everybody on the planet can see.
So, yeah, people have been downloading some of the video from our presentation, and obviously they thought at some level, well, we've got to do something as a preemptive thing here in case this gets legs or traction.
And they came out with their new dusty ring of Saturn, which I'm convinced they've known about for a long time.
What I'm intrigued with now is they're about to launch a spacecraft called WISE, WISE.
This is NASA.
Yeah, I've heard about this, but what does it do?
Well, it's a wide-angle infrared satellite, a telescope.
Basically, in nine months, it's designed to map the entire sky in four or five infrared wavelengths.
And what I found really amazing is one of the scientists was interviewed on NASA last night, and he says, I'm really looking forward to seeing the big stuff that's out there that could be nearby that we don't know anything about.
And I'm thinking, what are they possibly talking about?
Because we had our first infrared survey of the sky from a NASA mission called IRAS, called Infrared Astronomical Satellite, IRAS, and it was back in the 80s.
So we've had an infrared sky survey.
What is it that they think they're going to find with this one?
Which, of course, will have much higher resolution and signal to noise and all the cool instrumentation engineering stuff that you would want after, what, 80s, 90s, 2000s, 30 years, 20 years.
But I have a feeling that they already know, again, like with Saturn, that there's some really cool stuff and they're going to use this new mission as the kind of excuse to make it public.
So once again, as you've said so many times when we've talked and I've heard you in other places, the agenda is not really the agenda.
No, what you see in public is not what's going on behind the scenes.
And no clearer statement of that fact can be made than the bizarreness going on around the NASA, you know, bomb the moon mission called La Crosse.
Yeah, well, that was the other thing.
Just weeks after the Saturn revelation came this thing that made me laugh because you and I in Liverpool and in London talked about this.
La Crosse, as they were calling it first off, L Crosse, as they came to call it later, crashes into the surface of the moon.
Everybody's watching from Earth.
You know, ordinary people, ordinary amateur astronomers are expecting to see some great firework display conflagration up there.
Nothing happens, and then a few weeks later they say, we've discovered more frozen water, which you and I call ice, on the moon.
What's this all about?
Well, what it's about, I think, is preparing the table, setting the table, as they term it politically over here.
I believe that this administration, the Obama administration, is finally going to get us pregnant.
I think they are going to formally announce that there is something going on in the solar system that previous NASA missions and personnel and scientists have missed.
And basically, they're going to date it with its discovery on the La Crosse mission as they slowly work their way through what they have said repeatedly now is amazingly rich data.
And it starts with water, but we know now that there was a lot of other stuff in that plume of ice and dust that came up after the impact that they've been analyzing with the spectrometers on the lacrosse spacecraft, which, of course, was following on behind and crashed into the moon after passing through this cloud of debris in about four minutes after the primary impact.
And they're dribbling out, pun intended, this information over months.
I mean, it's been a month since the impact on October 9th, a month and change.
Yeah, that was weird, wasn't it?
There was a gap.
There was a gap.
First of all, there was a stunned, well, what appeared to be a stunned silence.
Nothing much was said about it.
Oh, dear, that's a bit of a, as we say over here, a damp squib.
And then we get this other stuff about frozen water, aka ice, up there.
And it just seems to me, and you don't have to be a Philadelphia lawyer, and having talked to you for all these years, I think that your work, if you buy into it, and you know that a lot of people don't buy into it, and you hear from them on various forums and what have you, but if you buy into it, it seems to be reaching some kind of critical mass towards something.
I get that feeling.
Well, I've had input from sources who are inside the agencies who tell me the Dark Mission, the Secret History of NASA, is a really popular bestseller among people working at NASA.
Really?
Makes me feel really good.
And I know, because of web tracking that I do on people who listen to this show and go to my website, some of them are using NASA servers because I see it.
Oh, the folks that are coming and looking at your site.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
The same thing happens with Enterprise.
So the model is that they have read Dark Mission.
They know there's interesting stuff that's been concealed from most of the rank and file of NASA itself.
So they craft a mission to go to the moon and find some key things.
Unlike previous missions, however, this is really important.
What they're doing is they're publishing amazing data.
They're just not calling it what it is.
And I'll give you a couple of examples.
The lacrosse mission launched in mid-June of this year.
Four or five days later, the spacecraft had to loop around the moon in a close approach to get into position for the impact, the high-angle impact, four months later.
During that swing-by, which occurred on the 22nd, 23rd in the early wee morning hours here, they took a whole bunch of readings, including infrared imaging, spectrometer calibrations, you know, getting ready for the big show, which was four months down the road.
What they did was then they released some of those infrared images of the far side of the moon as they swung around, which clearly show the heat signatures of the ancient ruined domes on the moon I have been talking about for years.
You haven't?
How do you know that they are the heat signatures?
How does that work?
Tell me how that works, Richard.
Sure.
Tell me how that works, though.
How do you know that the heat signatures that you see are from those things?
You have to go to the EnterpriseMission.com website, and you have to read a series we've begun called NASA's Smoking Gun.
We have a cliché here about, you know, the smoking gun, meaning the piece of evidence that basically will clinch the crime or clinch the model or clinch the hypothesis.
If you find someone standing over a dead body and he's holding a gun and the smoke is still coming out of the barrel, the detectives usually think that he should be a prime suspect.
That this guy or Gal, I mean, if you look at Dial M for Murder, that Hiscott film set in London, such a wonderful film, they were looking for the equivalent of the smoking gun.
So what NASA is doing, or this team within NASA, which is more accurate, I think, they're putting out these smoking gun pieces of evidence that any reasonable scientist, a reasonable engineer, will look at it in total and say, oh my God, this means this.
They're just not labeling it in the captions.
That's going to come, I think, later down the road, and that's a political decision.
But what they're doing is they're seeding the landscape.
They're seeding the scientific environment with real data that is showing astonishing stuff.
And to see what astonishing stuff they're showing, you have to go to Enterprise and log into the Smoking Gun series, which you posted there at enterprisemission.com.
And you have to, just looking globally at the thing, if you pardon the expression, you have to remember that quite often as a populace, and this is something that I've learned over the last decade or so as I've been doing my news and doing my work, what we are told isn't forever the view that we are given by the powers that be tends to change.
I'm reading on the net at the moment, and I'm sure you've seen it too, that funnily enough, it looks like global warming is not proceeding at the rate that scientists promised us that it would be.
Now, what does that mean?
So that means those guys were wrong.
Now, if they were wrong about that, then being very simplistic about it, and in my small brain, they can be wrong about what's going on in space, and they will change their theories, and they will change what they tell us and what they feed us.
Well, the difference between the global warming problem and what NASA is now seeing in terms of what's on the moon is one is a theoretical construct.
You have certain information, you put it into a computer model, the model runs, and you're projecting what's going to happen 10, 20, 30, 50, 100 years downstream based on your assumptions that are incorporated into your computer model.
With the problem that NASA is confronting now, it's not theory at all.
You go to the moon, you take a close-up look, you find astonishing engineering ruins, which are on some of these photographs, including an incredible three-dimensional grid that they fell down through before they crashed into the South Pole back in October.
And they have put these images out in public domain.
It's not like they're hiding them.
They're putting them out there.
They're just not telling people what's on the image.
They're leaving that for us to figure out for ourselves.
What will the time scale be then?
You're saying that we are being made to or we're being drip-fed information that we have to put together ourselves.
When intelligent people, when people of note and authority and wisdom put the pieces together and explain to the populace what's going on here, then the politicians will have to come out and say something, won't they?
Well, again, I'm very good at engineering and scientific questions.
The political ones are a little more difficult because remember, in politics, you can always change your mind.
Right.
So if I was to extrapolate or project or speculate or predict when the Obama administration is going to, you know, do the big reveal, I would probably abysmally fail because you just can't do that.
I can tell you that in the background, behind the scenes, at the level that most people don't know what's going on because they don't have the context that we do, there's a lot of things happening inside NASA which lead me to conclude that at some point, probably within 2010, this announcement is going to be made at some level.
And I cannot be more specific than that.
I can't tell you whether it's going to be early in the year, middle of the year, late in the year.
I will tell you one interesting little tidbit.
When Arthur Clark and Peter Hyams did the sequel to 2001, which was 2010, one of the curious subtitles that for some reason they attacked onto that film was 2010, The Year We Make Contact.
And I think one should keep that in mind as one watches the flow of this amazing NASA data coming out of the belly of the beast.
And bearing in mind, as you've told me many times before, and as other people have said, how right Arthur C. Clarke has been in his predictions in the past.
And of course, he was in the loop to know things.
I mean, he and I used to exchange, shall we say, coded messages toward the end of his life.
But it was clear to me from those messages that A, he was in the loop, he knew what was being covered up, and B, his decision was he could do nothing about it because of his frailty, his health, his Age, and he was doing some things that he could, but it was all at the level of kind of letting various parts of the system know that he knew and I knew.
Now, you know, and we talked about this in London and we've talked about it on the phone before over the years, not to any great extent, that there are people who detract from what you say, who, as we say in the UK, diss what you say and your theories.
I looked at one site today.
There are many of them, and you must look at them too.
One guy said, I'm not a big fan of Richard C. Hoagland.
His claims are grossly wrong, generally easy to show as such.
His analysis is flawed.
His conclusions are faulty, and his claims of conspiracy unfounded and unsupported.
Now, of course, that person hid behind a pseudonym, did not give their name.
I guess you're hoping that you're going to get your day to prove all of these people wrong.
Well, if you live long enough, ultimately history vindicates if you're pursuing truth and honest, you know, scientific investigation, and that's what we are.
And I am seeing a trend curve to where it's now going to be probably months, if not a year or so, as opposed to the decades we've been laboring in the vineyards, totally unknown and basically attacked at many levels for trying to lift the veil.
Now, when the veil is lifted, lifted in stages, if this happens, I've often wondered what do guys like you do then?
Once all this stuff, assuming it does come out, comes out, where do you go and what do you do?
What do I do?
Yeah, because the work is done then, isn't it?
If our political model is correct, there'll be a lot of additional data to work with, and it's going to be like Christmas in a candy store.
What we're getting now is only tidbits and snippets, you know, the so-called terms of lunar water, tip of the iceberg.
And after this announcement, if it comes, there'll be a lot more information freely available, and people will discuss it in polite society, and there will actually be various models.
I mean, it's going to be a whole new game.
It is what we call politically here in the United States a game changer.
And I am watching this administration move quietly, if inexorably, in concert, by the way, I should say, with other governments around the world.
This is not just going to be us.
This is going to be Obama in concert with China, with Japan, with India, with Russia, with the European Union, with our friends, you know, the Brits over there.
It's going to be a global response to a global, astonishing revelation that the human race is not alone.
Now, we talked about the politicians, but what about the media?
You and I know that when you went back to America, I was very enthused by what you'd had to say.
And I thought, you know, somebody else, apart from me and my listeners, need to be hearing what you say, and they certainly need to be hearing what you say in Europe.
Whatever people think about it is a matter for them.
And I tried, as you know, to get a national newspaper, very respected one over here, to do a feature about you.
And they told me, after thinking about it, they thought it was just too way out there.
I wonder what all of these people are going to do if any of this stuff actually happens in the time scale you say it will.
Howard, Howard, well, if there is an official announcement of any kind, it completely changes the political landscape.
Suddenly, reporters that don't remember your name are going to have you on speed dial.
Yeah, right.
I know.
Well, exactly.
That's how it's going to change.
But your relationship with the media also will change, because, you know, as we both know, in America, you get a lot of coverage on a show that does what this does, but on a much bigger scale during the nighttime in America.
But mainstream, you have a problem, don't you?
Well, it depends on what and when.
For instance, the sci-fi NBC people just aired a major special several times on cable here and satellite dealing with 2012 and what might be happening at that, you know, penultimate date.
And they included in the two-hour special major segments of our work, including measurements in Mexico and Guatemala with ancient Mayan pyramids measuring this physics that I've been discussing for many years now, torsion field physics.
And the reception has been extremely positive.
The ratings were extraordinary.
There has been an awful lot of traffic through the Enterprise website.
My revised edition of Dark Mission, The Secret History of NASA, where in Chapter 2 we lay out in great specificity this physics and how it interacts with the Earth and the solar system and why it might be part of the 2012 scenario, shot up on Amazon to pun intended astronomical numbers, even though the book was not mentioned once in the show.
It means people are Googling.
They're using the Internet.
They were finding us.
They were finding Enterprise.
And they were doing their own homework, which of course is what everyone should do.
And as I said, Howard, as soon as I get some of my computer problems solved, I am going to link your website to the Enterprise Mission website because it's time that you had as much fun as we do.
I can't wait for that day, Richard.
And we need to be talking about this stuff in Europe.
And like I've just said, whatever people make of it, and you know people will always knock this and they'll always dismiss you out of hand.
There will be people like that or there are lots of them on the internet.
But we have a right over here to be able to discuss this information freely.
And I don't think we're getting that chance over here.
And that bugs me somewhat.
And I want to see that change.
So that's my statement.
I don't want to change if for no other reason the human race cannot proceed with part of it knowing a lot and the rest of it knowing almost nothing.
I mean that kind of dichotomy makes C.P. Snow and his two cultures look like the proverbial Sunday school picnic.
Yep.
And as I used to say on that national radio show that I used to do, we talked about many topics and some of them were way out there.
And I used to say, even if 15%, 20% of what you've just heard is true, that changes everything we know about everything.
And that goes for your work too, I think.
Even if you're not entirely right about all of this stuff, it's still, even if 10% of it is true or 5% of it is true, it's still pretty mind-expanding and it still changes everything that we believe, the paradigms to which and by which we lived our lives.
Well, the central paradigm is the solar system was inhabited by someone who built amazing stuff all over the place.
NASA in the 50s was commissioned to go out and find it.
They did.
They've been lying to us and keeping it all secret per policy.
We actually have a government document called the Brookings Report where this kind of secrecy is recommended as policy because the fear was that the human species was not ready for this kind of extraordinary new information as to its real context in the universe.
And I think that policy is now drawing to a close, and it's all about how the I's are dotted and the T's will be crossed.
But I think we're on the edge, on the brink of some astonishing revelations beginning with ancient artifacts built by someone on the moon.
Well, I can't wait for the day when we get to hear more about that.
And you and I will talk about it again.
Of course, we will.
I think that's a good place to park this conversation.
Richard, thank you very much.
I know you're off doing more tours, more lectures, more speeches, aren't you?
Yes, I do.
I've got a big weekend coming up here in Tempe, Arizona.
And we'll be producing a DVD, so our friends in Britain will be able to actually get a PAL copy or put it in their computer and see what it is in specificity that we've been talking about.
Without the pictures, without the images, Howard, a lot of this does not work because the devil is in seeing the details of these extraordinary images.
Well, that's the good thing about your website, EnterpriseMission.com, and that's the way you've played the game always.
You don't just write things, you actually say, and if you don't believe this, here's a picture that shows you.
Well, the science here is in the pictures, and it's a picture-driven story, so of course you have to show the pictures.
One thing I will say is that Dark Mission climbed up the New York Times bestseller list incredibly fast a year or so ago when it first came out.
The revised edition now is doing extremely well.
And in the revised edition, we have three separate amateur astronomers with three separate technologies, CCD imaging and telescopes and all that, who have photographed ruins on the moon from the Earth.
And we replicate those images in the book.
So if you want to see what, if you're an amateur astronomer, you can actually go out in your backyard and actually take pictures of, if the lighting is right, then you can see those images in Dark Mission.
Good to talk to you again, Richard.
I know you're a busy man, so thank you for fitting me in, and we'll talk again soon.
And I look forward to the day when you'd link to my website.
It'll make a big difference to me.
Thank you.
I'm looking forward to that, too.
Richard C. Hoagland, American space expert, a man whose work I think is reaching critical mass.
And so nice to meet him in the UK back in September.
And Robin.
And if you're both listening, I send you my very good wishes.
And one of these days, I'd love to see you at home in the US like we talked about.
Anyway, let's get to the guest that I told you about at the top of the show, a lady who wrote to me on email and suggested herself as a guest.
I've had quite a few emails like this, and I had a feeling about this one, which is why she's coming on first.
She's based in the English Midlands.
Her name is Sandria, which is like Sandra, but with an E just before the A at the end.
Mosses.
And she's a clairvoyant and medium in the English Midlands.
Has quite a following there.
She's not a James Van Prague.
She's not an internationally renowned person yet.
Maybe this will help her to become that.
But her work as a clairvoyant and medium is fascinating.
She does have a new book out.
It's called Spheres of an Unseen World, and it's based on her life and experience.
See what you think.
Let me know.
She's online now to The Unexplained.
Sandrea Moss is.
Thanks for coming on.
And thank you for inviting me.
Now, listen, I'm intrigued.
I've started to get all of these emails I was saying at the top of this show from people who have suddenly discovered me and would like to be guests on the show.
And you are the first of those people I've got back to and actually said, okay, let's give it a go and come on the show.
So do you think fate played a part in all of this?
Absolutely.
There's no such thing as a coincidence.
The world of spirit works in most mysterious ways.
You think so?
I do, absolutely.
I don't think there's such a thing as coincidence.
Well, before we get into your story, you said the world works in mysterious ways.
How do you know that?
That's a difficult one and really hard for me to answer.
How do I know that?
I know through the communications I receive from the spirit world, I know that we're often helped, we're often taken directions, and we're often given little bits of guidance to push us into certain ways.
And I think that a lot more goes on than we realise, and we're given a lot more help than we realize.
Okay, and how did you first become aware of that?
Gosh, I could probably give you thousands of examples.
But let me, can I tell you a very short story?
Please do.
I once applied for a job that I was actually told to apply for, I was encouraged to apply for, and by the people who interviewed actually asked me to put in for it.
And I put in for the job and I didn't get it.
And I was mortified.
So I decided to stay where I was in the job that I was.
And somebody came back off sick leave three months later who was the person who got me doing all this work.
She together with Gerald, we did a psychic development course together.
And had I got that job, I wouldn't be where I am now.
I will have people emailing me because they do all the time saying that's just coincidence.
I don't believe there is a such thing as a coincidence.
I believe that things happen to us and I believe that certain things are pre-planned before even before we are born.
I believe there are certain things that we experiences that we wish to go through, certain things that we want to experience.
And we do get help Howard all the time, but just most of the time we just don't realize it.
I know you've checked me out online before getting in touch with me and I've checked you out online and I've checked out the fact that you do Gigs and shows around your local area quite a lot, so you're quite well known where you live.
How did you first of all realize that you had what you might call a gift?
Well, as I said to you, I'd always read on a subject, I'd always been interested.
And it was only when I started to do the psychic development did I know that I'd always known things and I'd always seen things, but I thought everybody could do this.
And it was only when I was being trained to fine-tune it did I realize that not everybody had this ability, that not everybody was able to do this.
So the more I developed it, I forgot what you asked me.
Well, I asked you how you first got into all of this, because I guess it's the most obvious question.
It's a good place to start.
But, you know, it is something that I know you on your website, and lots of people have said to me who do what you do, have said, well, actually, we've all got this gift.
We all come into this world with it.
The only thing is that some of us realise it and decide to do something about it, and most of us don't.
Julia, that is so true.
We are born psychic.
And what happens is as we grow and start to get more entrenched into the world, we slowly stop using it.
Our parents say to us, there's no such thing as angels, there's no such thing as fairies, there's no such thing as ghosts, there's no imaginary friends.
And we're told all this and we become very entrenched in the world so that we don't realize.
And some people will suddenly start to wake up and they'll start to wake up and tune into it like I have done and start to use it and start to develop it.
Some people will live a lifetime thinking this is all there is, there is nothing else to it.
There are people who've said to me over the years, because sometimes I've told people things that they have told me were correct and I don't know how I've known those things.
I've got an idea, but you know, it's one of those things you just don't know.
And they've said, oh, Howard, you need to go to psychic development classes.
You said you did that.
What do they do there?
I've never asked anybody what happens at a psychic development class.
What normally happens, I mean, in the spruces movement, they have open circles that you go to and they do classes.
And they just teach you to be able to start to tune into your ability and start to help you by doing various different things.
For example, the first thing that you need to be able to do is meditate.
You have to quieten your mind.
And until you learn to quieten your mind, it's like you trying to get through to me tonight and me being chatting on the telephone.
You can't get through because I'm chatting.
I'm chatter, chatter, chatter.
So you have to quieten your mind like the telephone line.
And that's what you have to start off by doing.
And once you quieten it, you can start to receive it.
And as you, when you sit in these circles and you do different exercises to try to get you using your psychic ability, because most of us don't use it, Howard.
So we use it, we lose it.
It just stays there dormant.
All right.
Well, there must have been a turning point.
There must have come a time when you decided I've got to do something more with this.
Okay, I've developed myself, but something must have happened.
Maybe you helped somebody or something happened to you that made you turn the corner and start to do what you're doing, I suppose the words, professionally.
Yes, I mean, it's what makes you, what drives you on is the fact that you are helping other people is one of the things that drives you on.
I remember the first time that I sat in Circle and I didn't know what to expect.
And straight away, I'd got this little girl here who was talking to me.
And I thought I was trying to get rid of her because I didn't even know what you were supposed to do.
Nobody explained it to me, but this is what I was supposed to do.
And I gave somebody the message and they understood it.
And then you just get, it's like getting the taste.
You're thinking, gosh, I helped that person.
I gave them that.
And so you do a little bit more and you do a little bit more.
And you get despondent.
You get fed up because Bruce's churches, you know, you can be out with his nose hammy hours driving 100 miles for 15 pounds.
But then you go to that woman who's just lost her child.
You go to her and you give her irrefutable evidence of her son.
You give him his name.
You give him his age.
You give her name.
You give them all this information on how he died.
And you just watch somebody.
And how do you do that?
Because you know there are a lot of people who say that they are psychics and mediums and clairvoyants and they connect with something and they say, I'm getting an M here.
Do we know anybody here whose name begins with an M?
Is there a man around you whose name begins with an M?
And most people, if you search deeply enough in their background, will be able to say, okay, oh, it's my auntie's brother, Mark.
Is that how you do it?
Or do you have another way of doing this?
If I'd like to, well, no, because I'd be much more concise than that.
The Sprutish churches have some of the most highest quality mediums in there.
And you would get people like myself who could go straight to somebody and say, I have your father here.
Go straight to that person and say, I have your father.
So it's much more accurate, you know, rather than saying, not this vagueness.
I mean, anybody can say that.
You have a woman in spirit.
Everybody will know somebody in spirit.
You have to be able to say names that are relevant, dates are irrelevant, conditions that are irrelevant.
And you've got to produce evidence, not this vagueness of you'll understand.
No, it doesn't work like that.
You should be able to.
Listen, I know, Sudri, the spiritualist church is a starting point for an awful lot of people who do the things that you do and many others do.
And, you know, some of the people who started out at spiritualist churches have actually become famous.
One of those people who's been on this show, his name is Christian Dion.
He now lives in Los Angeles and he started in Blackpool and he began by going to the spiritualist church.
But you know that there are a lot of people in other churches who will say what you're doing is the devil's work.
Yes.
Do you know, Howard, if you can go, and I use that example, you can go to a mother a week before Christmas and say to her, your son is here and you can give her evidence and you can give her irrefutable evidence that you are talking to her son and you can give that woman the strength to get through Christmas and to get through another week.
That can't be bad, can it?
It's almost like social work by the sounds of it.
But you know the other thing, the responsibility, and I've said this to mediums a million times before in interviews all over the country, but the responsibility on you is enormous because if you don't get it right and if you don't handle the situation right, you're playing with people's Emotions, aren't you?
Absolutely, absolutely.
You're right there.
And I take mediumship very responsibly, and I get very, very angry and very annoyed when I see people hiring a hall or a room and going and not having a clue about what they're doing.
And it really annoys me.
It really annoys a lot of mediums because you're playing with people's lives here.
You've got to be very, very careful.
It's the most responsible job I've done.
I work full-time in the NHS.
It's nowhere near as responsible as the job I do when I stand up.
Isn't that interesting?
I didn't know you worked in the NHS.
I haven't seen that in your biography.
Have you come into contact with the other side in your work with the NHS?
Because, of course, sadly, it's part of life.
People die all the time, don't they?
You do, actually.
I've come in on a number of occasions where usually if I'm at work, I tend to be in work mode.
But there are some times when you can't help it.
Are you a nurse, by the way?
No, no, I'm an advisor.
I'm actually a moving and handling advisor.
I don't work at that because I've got a knee injury, but I'm a moving and handling advisor.
I work for San Juan and West Burlington NHS Trust.
Well, you need to get some moving and handling advice yourself, I guess.
I'm not my knee at the moment.
I do know they're looking after me there.
I hope it gets better soon.
I'm just waiting for an operation.
But yes, I remember being down the basement.
Do you want to hear the story?
Absolutely, yeah.
I was down the basement, and as I was walking along, just as the points, as I got to one point, the pipes shook and vibrated.
Now, to me, I know that the spirit world will, those who haven't gone over, what we call ghosts, will frighten you.
And just, it didn't bang before I got there.
It didn't bang after I went.
It banged just when I was level with it.
And I felt my stomach contract.
And I thought, I don't like this.
And so I said to the person I was with, I'm just going to go, we were just by the lift.
I said, I'm going to call the lift.
And as the lift came, I was with this person and I started to rummage in my bag.
Now, most people know if I'm rummaging my bag, I'm actually talking to usually somebody else.
And I said, who's there?
Stand forward.
And I felt this man stand forward.
Well, I saw the man stand forward.
But the person I was with was facing the lift and I was leaning against the wall.
And as it happened, he shivered and said, oh, he said, oh, I don't like it down here.
And that was just at the point of this spirit stood behind him.
And it was so interesting that he didn't know, he didn't know what I was doing.
But just at the point as when I asked him to step forward to speak to him, he started shivering.
And you say it was like a ghost.
To you, a medium, what does a ghost look like?
There are several categories of ghosts.
Life is never easy.
We get what's called, like what I would say, is where the atmosphere of a building is stained.
So you hear somebody saying, on the 5th of November every year, Lady Grey walks down the stairs and she disappears into the wall.
That's not a ghost, it's just a replay.
The event was obviously so poignant, it's just stained the atmosphere and it just keeps replaying.
A ghost to me, I mean, a ghost to me is, or when I talk about a haunting, it's an entity that is trapped here, that doesn't belong here.
They have died, they haven't gone into the light, they haven't passed over into the side like they should have done is they've hung around on the earth plane.
And they're just the same as you or I, except that they haven't got a body.
They don't have the powers of the spirit world.
They don't have the power to travel at great speed, the power to heal, the power to communicate as well.
And so they're just trapped here.
Okay, well, that's one class, yeah?
Yes, that is one class.
And so the other class, those like our relatives who just popped to see us, who call to see us on a regular, you know, coming on a regular basis, they're just passing through, or some of you who used to live in your house has died.
They just pop back to have a look at the house.
That's just something.
Now that is a spirit person who is coming down and that's different.
Well, now listen, I know I've asked a number of people and sometimes on this show about this, but it's something that's very close to me and why not.
My mother left us unexpectedly just over three years ago and the void is enormous there because we didn't expect her to pass.
This often happens, doesn't it?
She went into hospital and she didn't come out alive, sadly.
And we've all been trying to come to terms with it.
I felt and the whole family felt in the month or two after she died.
She was very close to all of us.
And some weird things that I won't go into now.
And I have been on, you know, I've told the stories before on this show anyway.
Some weird things happened and I'm convinced that there was some kind of presence there.
Now though, more than three years down the track from that happened, I just don't feel that she is around me in the way that she was.
And I've heard that before.
Don't understand how that works.
Could that be so?
She was here at one point and now she's gone on to something else?
What it is, Howard, is what will happen is they die.
They leave the body.
They go into the light, but they will almost come straight out again to give us comfort.
And as long as we need them, they stay around.
They are always there when we need them.
You only have to think about them and they are there with you.
And I know because I know your mummy's there, but I couldn't give you mediumship now because people would think I'd looked it up and I knew things.
But I can tell you is that what she's saying to me.
And as people start to recover from the death, they still pop back and see you and they still come back, but it's not quite so strong and it's not so frequent.
They are always there.
Sandrio, thank you for that.
That's a very, very good explanation.
One of the best I've heard.
There are going to be the cynics because they email me all the time and I like them too because that's what we're here to do.
We're here to ask the questions who will say, if you cannot tell me any information on this phone call now, on this show now, then you're not really a medium.
You can't do it to order.
You can't press a button and say, I'm going to connect with your mum or somebody around you now.
What do you say to them?
I have to say that.
I have to say, well, I would just rise above them and just ignore them.
But the danger is here, Howard.
All I can say to you is I've got a woman here smiling at me.
I've just got a woman here just smiling, and I know mum would have had a lovely smile on her face.
I know mummy's telling me somebody had a gap in their front teeth.
I know mummy's telling me, I know mummy's telling me that she's on average build.
I've never seen a photograph of you, Howard.
I'm sorry.
So I don't know whether you're tall because I don't think there is one on your website.
Tall, quite tall.
But I'm looking at this lady.
She's probably about 5'6, I would say, probably about 5'7.
And I don't think she carries a lot of weight.
I'm looking at your mum, and she just put a cardigan on, so I know she's very, very mumsy, I have to say, and she's just put a cardigan on.
I know this lady would feel the cold.
Okay, well, that's true on two counts.
She used to wear a lot of cardigans, and she did feel the cold, and the height thing is right.
Now, do spirits then, when they appear to you, if they appear to you, do they appear as they would like to be seen?
My mum was very trim when she was younger, but she wouldn't mind me saying that she put on a lot of weight towards the end.
So you saying that she wasn't very, very big as you see her.
That's wrong.
That's not right.
In her later years, she was bigger than average.
You often find that they will come back at a period.
They will stay away from the illness time because often that just brings the memory back.
So they'll often try and come back at what was a happy time for you.
And very strong memories for you is what they will often present themselves as.
I mean, it's no good a baby you're losing a child at three, coming back at 19.
You wouldn't recognise them.
So they will always come back at the era where you remember them best from.
Now, the little bit of biography that I've got about you from your new book, which as we say is called Spheres of an Unseen World, we'll talk about that briefly in just a sec.
But it says that you're an expert in dealing with unwanted presences in homes and businesses.
That sounds like exorcism to me.
See, you know, some people, I suppose they would, but we would never call it exorcism.
What would you call it?
What would you call it?
Well, what house clearance?
Okay, you can advertise for doing house clearances, all right.
Yeah, I mean, we don't, you know, some of you don't tend to advertise how it because it's, although I know it's on my website, if you notice, I say very little about it.
I mean, I'm going to regret saying this now on the show.
Well, we have never charged a penny for it ever for doing a house clean.
So I don't think you can charge anybody for doing something else.
I think you're going to get some emails now, but let's see.
I know.
But you see, you know, usually when you've got people, it's surprising how a coincidence, how many people happen to mention it to me.
All right, give me, I'm sure you've got stories, many of them.
Give me one or two of the really good ones, the juicy ones.
The really juicy ones.
I've got to be careful that people find them plausible.
I was at church one night and a woman just came into the church and said that she was having terrible problems.
Could we help her?
And we went over to, and this happened.
I never go on my own.
There's usually four of us who go, one healer who can give healing afterwards, and three mediums.
And we went to the house and what had happened is that every door and every drawer in the house kept opening and in the kitchen kept opening and shutting, opening and shutting.
And we went in and I went and asked again to went to the house.
Did you see that happen?
No, that happened.
She'd come straight to the church.
But you didn't see the drawers open, Michael.
We didn't see the drawers open, but we went to the house and the darkness in that house was awful.
And the husband, well, sorry, a partner, had been practicing black magic.
Is what he'd been doing is he'd been practicing black magic.
And assuming that there is such a thing, what had that done?
What had that done?
It had brought a horrible entity into the house and you could feel it, this dark energy that was up the corner.
And there was really frightening energy that was in there.
And I mean, it was ironic that he thought he could beat the dark side.
He could work with the dark side.
He lost his access to his daughter.
He lost his job.
He lost his house.
He lost everything.
That doesn't seem like to me the dark side working and with them.
So we went there and, you know, that's not really, it's not really a really good story I've picked actually, but I was just saying, we didn't see that.
But it was just when you went in there, it was freezing cold.
Heating was on four.
The house was absolutely freezing cold when we went in there.
Which is often said to be a sign.
But, you know, more interesting, even though you didn't actually see much in the way of the phenomena, is what you say it did to the man who was dabbling in something that perhaps he shouldn't have been dabbling in.
Yes, yes.
You know, how did he end up?
Last time we heard, he was broke, lost his partner, lost everything.
And you're just thinking, you just don't play with it, you just don't play with the dark side.
And I will give you another example of somewhere.
I have a thing about Ouija boards.
If you see my site, you'll see what I've put on there about Ouija boards.
They're the most dangerous thing that you can play with.
They are so dangerous.
Well, I know people who've tried to experiment with them on the radio, and I won't do it, but you tell me why they're wrong.
Well, when we are down here, Howard, on this earth plane, we are protected.
We are given protection.
We are in a dimension.
There are other dimensions around us that are not so nice, and we are protected.
If you put your finger on a board and say, is anybody there?
Will you talk to me?
You are inviting that person in and you are revoking your right for protection.
You're actually inviting them in and you're inviting anything in.
It's like Russian roulette.
You may be lucky, a guide may walk in, or you may be very, very unlucky and you may end up with something, you may end up with something coming through there.
Well, it's a bit like earthing an electrical appliance, isn't it?
It's like earthing an electric fire.
You need protection with a thing.
How do you get your earthing protection?
I'm a bit of a coward, Howard.
I always say very strong protection before I start working.
And I tell my guide exactly what I want and who I will communicate with and who I won't communicate with.
And obviously, I have to lower my protection when I go into a house clearance for me to be able to see it, to be able to see what is going on there.
And you open a vortex, Howard.
Where you're doing that, you're opening doorways into other worlds that you can't shut.
And we went to one, this is in my book, this is actually, one morning the phone was ringing at about 27 in the morning, I was in the shower.
I picked up the answer phone because I'm thinking, why is this happening?
It was ringing me at this time in the morning.
And Howard, what met me were two women screaming, help me, help me, save me, help me, help us, please, please, screaming.
And so I rang them up and they were just hysterical because I'm trying to calm them down.
But you know, I work full-time and my job, my day job, it's what pays my mortgage, and I have to do my day job.
So I calmed them down.
Karen and Marty, who I work with, and Dave and I cleared everything out of our diaries and went over there.
And we went over there, and the girl hadn't dabbled with it, but somebody around her had dabbled with it while she was there.
And a friend had come along and said, oh, I can deal with this.
I know how to do this.
And she didn't.
And when you do that, it overpowers you.
You give it power because you thought you can deal with it.
You can't.
And so the power struggle takes place.
And we got there, and they were covered in bites and scratches.
Bites and scratches?
Marks were actually physically appearing on them.
This is the most dramatic one, I can tell you.
Marks were actually appearing on them while we were there.
And they'd covered themselves in crystals.
They'd take crystals onto them to try and protect themselves.
That's even worse because you're just making the situation worse.
Sounds like you're making a target for it.
Yeah, absolutely.
And this is what happens when somebody comes along and says, I can deal with it.
Don't dabble unless you know.
And it took us, it took us, you know, we had to put them in a circle.
We ended up having to, you know, we had to do an awful lot of work to clear the house, to clear them and to get rid of the problem.
Well, if they were being attacked by some entity like that and the entity was making marks on their flesh like stigmata almost in front of you, how come you were okay?
Because I'm protected.
I'm protected.
You have to hold your power, Howard, so that when it tries to come at you, if I felt fear, when it tries to come at me, I'm in serious danger and I'm in serious danger.
All right, so part of the protection and part of keeping this stuff away from you is not acknowledging it.
Once you acknowledge the thing exists, then you let it in.
Is that what we're saying?
What it is, it's working with the lights and just all the time is working with the God force, the God light energy, and just refusing to allow it anywhere near you.
And so when the energy comes at you to try and overpower you, is that what you do, you're so powerful yourself, is that you just refuse to, you overpower it.
It is almost like a mind game that takes place.
And that's how when entities are bothering you, what happens is they make you afraid.
And when they make you afraid, they take your power.
Sandra, this is a fantastic story, and you say that it's in your book.
What was it, though?
I don't think we've said what it was.
They were actually looking like gargles, I have to say.
There were these little creatures.
You could see them?
Yes, yes, I could see them.
Psychically, I could see them.
They were little creatures that were about three feet tall with beaks and wings.
And it was the talons that were marking them and the beaks.
And where'd they come from?
They'd come from another dimension.
You know, people are going to hear this and think that that sounds absolutely crazy.
But the fact of the matter is, and I'm taking you on trust here, if you were seeing marks appear on people's flesh and people being terrified like that, something had to be causing it, didn't it?
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
And I'm really sort of reticent about saying it, Howard, because it's, you know, I'm reluctant to say it because people will think it's so far-fetched.
And that was one of the most difficult ones that we did.
Where did that happen, Sandria?
What area was it?
Yeah.
It was in Wolverhampton.
Right, which is, for people who don't know that area, if you're listening in another country, that's right in the centre of the UK.
That's it, yes.
Okay, so just an ordinary home?
An ordinary home.
The girl had been somewhere where they'd been using a board.
They'd been using an Ouija board.
They'd opened the doorway.
She was actually, she was actually, the girl in question was actually quite a very gifted and psychic spiritual person who at that time hadn't developed herself.
So do you think this thing had attached itself to her, even though she wasn't involved in experimenting and playing with this stuff?
Because if you follow this logic, her channels were open.
Absolutely.
And she was in the room when it was being done.
She was just the unlucky one.
And because, you know, after when somebody's their channels are open, so the light shines brighter.
And that's why they'd attached it to it.
And then this other girl had come along and tried to deal with it because she did quite, you know, it was way too powerful for her.
And of course, then it had now gained power over and got stronger.
And how did you deal with it?
Did it go without a fight?
No, what we tend to do, it sounds so dramatic, is what we tend to do is I will go by what my guide says to me, but what we did is what we'll always do is we will feel the inside of the house with light so we can contain it inside and they just tell us to create a doorway.
And we will create a doorway, any imaginary doorway, but it's not to us a silver doorway.
And then we will just help the spirit people to come and clear the problem out.
So you will invoke or call on something else to come in and sweep whatever it is away?
That's it, yes.
Yes, you know, I will call on.
We'll all call on our guides, and our guides will tell us what to do.
And is it true, as people say, that good ultimately always beats evil?
Absolutely.
Absolutely, every single day.
And what do you think evil is?
What do I think evil is?
That's a really, really hard one, isn't it?
But I was just thinking that when we open doorways to other dimensions, Howard, what it is, is there are dimensions there that live very differently to us.
It's a totally different life to us when we open these doorways.
And these entities and beasts that live there, that's what they live in, yes?
They live in that darkness.
Are you never scared that one of these days something like that?
And I've heard many tales over the years and you can read them anywhere and some of them are less credible than others.
But are you not scared that one of these days one of these things is going to come and get you?
No, because I believe in the strength of the good.
Did you know, Howard, actually one night that we were doing a clearance and again it was, I have to say, it makes it sound like we see these, I've only ever seen something like this gargoyle thing three times, but I knew that this was on this person's back.
And suddenly I felt something go in my solar plexus, which is in my rib cage.
I felt it go in.
And as it went in, Karen said to me, it's trying to climb on you.
Now I haven't said a word.
Just as its talon went into my, it went into my solar plexus region.
Karen said, Sandra, it's trying to climb on you.
And I just said, it's too late, it's on me.
And just for a moment, I could have gone into a blind panic.
But all I did was just held my energy and trusted the spirit world to deal with it.
Well, Karen and Martin and David were helping.
But I can tell you the fear of when that just went in there.
And it's because I'm taking my protection down to be able to see it.
And I hadn't put enough protection up.
Taught me a big lesson, did that?
Well, I think proof that not everybody who comes on this show has to be famous or already accomplished.
I think there's room for people who are on their way up.
And maybe that's Sandrea Moss's.
Tell me what you think about her.
If you want to get in touch with this show, please go to the website www.theunexplained.tv.
That's www.theunexplained.tv.
Please send me your emails and feedback and thoughts and suggestions.
Very important that you do that.
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And thank you to you for listening.
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