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July 26, 2009 - The Unexplained - Howard Hughes
53:36
Edition 23 - Lunar Special

www.theunexplained.tv was officially relaunched on Liverpool's Late Night City on RadioCity 96.7 and City Talk 105.9 and with that we have a Lunar special!

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Across the UK, across continental North America, and around the world on the internet, my webcast and podcast.
My name is Howard Hughes, and this is the Unexplained.
Thank you for coming to the news site.
What do you think of it?
Let me know.
You can mail me through the site, or you can email me as usual direct.
That has not changed at unexplainedh at yahoo.co.uk.
I'm really excited about the site.
We actually launched it live on the radio on the Pete Price phone-in just very, very recently at City Talk 105.9 in Liverpool, covering the northwest of England.
So some of you may have heard that launch.
We actually launched it on the night of Pete's phone-in when we were talking about conspiracy theories.
Now, what are we going to do on this first show, on this new location that we have?
Well, two things.
Two special things as well.
One of them, we're going to include the conversation that I had with Richard C. Hoagland in the US about two things.
The sad death of Walter Cronkite, American broadcasting legend, the man who told the world about the space missions.
And also, the 40th anniversary of the landing of man on the moon.
So that is here first.
And then we're going to get to something very, very special.
Recorded in the studios of City Talk 105.9 in Liverpool very recently.
A long conversation with Larry Warren.
Who's Larry Warren?
We'll look him up on the internet.
Check him out on this site.
Larry Warren is one of the people who may have experienced something directly at Rendlesham Forest.
If you know anything about UFO contact stories, you will know that back in 1980, allegedly, the UK, an American airbase here, was visited by something.
We still don't entirely know what.
But what we do know is that a number of things happened to the military personnel who experienced that thing.
They were debriefed afterwards.
Some of them have kept very, very quiet.
And some of them, like Larry Warren, are telling their story.
His amazing story in studio quality is the second item that you will hear on this show.
But let's not waste any time.
The first item is Richard C. Hoagland.
And first off, we talk about the death of Walter Cronkite.
then we'll get to 40 years of man on the moon.
That's one small step for man, one giant leap for mankind.
City Talk 105.9, 40 years ago this week, man first set foot on the moon.
It's been covered over the weekend by all the newspapers.
One of them even had one of those original lunar posters as a little giveaway.
Just like at the time, everybody transfixed by science fiction becomes science fact.
Man actually did it.
Back at the time, well, I was a small boy, but I can remember a lot of people thought that something would go wrong with this mission and it wouldn't actually happen.
But then one morning I got up for school and my mum called me into the TV room and she said, look at that.
And it was Neil Armstrong setting foot on the moon.
They were rerunning what had happened during the previous night, UK time.
She said, this is history.
And it is.
With those words, one small step for man, one giant leap for mankind, now indelibly printed throughout history, those words will ring.
Of course they will.
But what a great day for humanity to be able to achieve something like that.
Now, that was the news coverage over the weekend, of course, a lot of lunar recollections, but it was upstaged in America by the death of the man who brought a lot of the world this news, a man called Walter Cronkite, a famous American newscaster, a man who could make or break presidents, a man who it's believed by criticizing the Vietnam War, ended it.
Lyndon B. Johnson, the president at the time, said, well, if I've lost Cronkite on my side, we might as well give up.
That's the war lost.
Cronkite was an important man, and he was a hard news man who anchored the nightly news on CBS in America.
But his great passion was space, and all of the Apollo coverage, he was the main anchor.
He was the man who was there when man set foot on the moon.
And sadly and ironically, over the weekend, Walter Cronkite at the age of 92 died, so he won't see this 40th anniversary.
This is how his own network, CBS, covered that event.
We were looking toward the stars.
The words of a remarkable man, Walter Cronkite, who's died over the weekend at the age of 92, and he was the man who brought a lot of the world, news of the lunar landings, and many other important stories as the main presenter on CBS television news.
And I'm lucky enough to have known for a number of years a man who was a close friend of Walter Cronkite, worked with him as his science advisor, Richard C. Hoagland, an ex-NASA employee who worked for CBS and now has some remarkable theories about the truth as he sees it of what's really going on on the moon and Mars and throughout space.
He believes we're not entirely being told the truth.
Well, we have him online now, Richard C. Hoagland from the U.S. Thank you for coming on City Talk again.
Howard, anytime.
Well, Richard, these are very sad times indeed, though, because the death of Walter Cronkite, now he's not as well known in the UK, but he is known here.
People are aware of him.
And of course, with the coverage over the weekend, they'll be even more aware of him.
But you had a close and personal connection with him, didn't you?
I had a really excellent relationship.
In fact, when I look back on my time at CBS and covering, you know, the moonshots, I could not have lucked into a better situation because Walter was the best teacher.
You know, when you're working with someone who is exactly the same off the air as on the air, and who cares for people, who has an impeccable sense of integrity, who has a real nose for news, and who you can look to as someone whose career you can model, you know, yours after, and nothing bad will happen, in fact, good things will happen.
I mean, you really can't say more than that.
And I was extremely sad yesterday afternoon to learn through one of the networks that I was watching that he had passed.
The only bright spot is that he lived to see the 40th anniversary of the launch on the 16th.
And, you know, if there's any consolation, it's that Arsa lost.
I also lost Arthur Clark this year.
You know, my friends are going.
Walter lived a very full and extraordinary life.
And speaking of Arthur, I had a little, you know, kind of moment last night when I was thinking of the two of them getting together and saying, oh, my God, Hoagland was right.
Well, that's some consolation, isn't it?
But the thing about Walter Cronkite in particular was I will mourn his passing because I think that that is a style of journalism that we need today.
It is a gravity of journalism, a quality of journalism that I'm afraid both sides of the Atlantic is dying out.
Well, he was a reporter first.
I mean, he'd covered everything.
He'd covered World War II, D-Day.
He'd jumped out of airplanes.
He'd been on bombers over Germany during the height of the war.
He'd, you know, then covered American politics.
He'd covered Vietnam.
He was the first one to report, you know, President Kennedy's death and that unforgettable scene where he takes off his glasses and looks at the clock and notes the time and then kind of chokes up.
And, of course, you know, the experiences I shared with him during the coverage of what he said, which I also firmly believe was the greatest story he had ever covered, which was going to the moon.
The one thing that I wished I'd been able to do before he had died was to convince him that there was an even bigger story, which is what NASA found on the moon and what they've kept from us for all these years.
But I had one meeting with him many years ago when we were looking at the material on Mars and had come to the conclusion that it was more than likely artificial, which of course changes everything.
And we hadn't even begun looking at the moon data yet.
And I went to see him in his office in Manhattan at Black Rock, the CBS, with a presidential advisor, David Webb, who had been made a member of President Reagan's Space Council, Space Commission.
And Walter, after I laid out the case for artificial structures on Mars, gleaned from the Viking data, he said, Dick, he said, at the appropriate time, my role will be television.
And that's all he would say.
And, you know, I guess by his estimations, the appropriate time never came.
You heard the other day that NASA had admitted they erased the tapes of the lunar landing.
The original video tapes of that incredible night somehow got wiped, demagnetized, degaussed, as they call them.
And so what they've done is they've called in four separate copies of that video transmission, one set from CBS, and there's a firm in Hollywood which is reconstructing frame by frame the signal so that we get a better signal quality and we get better images.
And I believe those are released on Thursday to the world.
You can go to the NASA websites and see them played side by side.
And, you know, they're marginally better.
But actually, to me, the most impressive images are in my mind because there's nothing that beat that first moment in seeing that grainy black and white image and Neil Armstrong coming down that ladder and putting his boot on the soil and basically saying that we had arrived for all mankind.
I mean, that, to me, is a memory that I will never, ever forget.
And when that happened, I can remember how I felt as a little boy seeing that in black and white on British television, and it was daytime here when I saw it.
You were part of it.
What was the feeling in your heart like?
What was that?
I can't imagine that emotion.
Tell me.
Well, I was watching it with a very special person in addition to Walter.
I was watching it with Robert Heinlein, who is the Dean of American Science Fiction.
There is not anyone who's ever dreamed of going to the moon that obviously hasn't read a Heinlein story.
And I was the one that championed and campaigned hard to get Robert on the show that night to be one of the guests that Walter would interact with.
And the way we set it up is that I had him walking through an entire solar system that CBS, a North American Rockwell, and I had created in a big hangar in California so that we could walk various guests through the solar system and talk about what would come after Apollo.
And I remember that Robert and I, after the landing, which we had watched in the green room together, we walked over to the hangar doors and they were open partly and you could look out over the Pacific and you could see the moon hanging over the Pacific Ocean.
And if you turned a little bit, there was a TV in the corner of the, there were many TVs, but this one was in the corner of the hangar, and you could see Neil and Buzz cavorting around on that television screen in black and white, simultaneously looking out that hangar door and seeing the actual moon.
It was the most eerie moment of almost being in the twilight zone.
And I remember Robert turned to me and he says, you realize, Dick, that from this moment on, this is where real history begins.
This is day one of year zero of the future of the human race.
Richard C. Hoakland is online.
He is a man who was there and knows, as we've said.
But Richard, you don't think that we've been told the entire story.
So when those enhanced images are released later this week by NASA of that original event, they won't take us any closer to what you believe is the truth, will they?
Not really, because there's been a policy in place ever since Apollo was commissioned and it went to the moon to not tell us what's really there.
And I have first-hand experience that there's been a very complicated political plan in place to divert people's attention.
We've all heard the rising chorus of the kind of noisy minority who claim that we never went to the moon, that it was all done in a sound stage in Nevada or someplace like that.
Well, in Dark Mission, in the porridge that I wrote to Dark Mission, which is my New York Times bestseller on the secret history of NASA and what really the agency has been discovering and then not letting us know about, I recount the story of my arrival at JPL, which is the Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, which is the West Coast NASA center that basically is in charge of most of the unmanned robotic explorations of the solar system.
And we had moved up from North American Rockwell, which built the command module for the Apollo spacecraft covering the Apollo 11 mission in the summer of 69, a few days after the landing, before they got back to Earth, we moved our operation from Downey, which is where Rockwell was located, up to Pasadena, where JPL was located, because there was an unmanned flyby of Mars by two JPL spacecraft, Mariner 6 and Mariner 7.
And so we were kind of doing dual duty.
And I remember as I was walking in the auditorium, I was watching a very strange tableau.
There was this guy in one of those kind of white trench coats, almost like a duster that cowboys used to wear when they were doing trail herds.
And he was putting a broadsheet, a little mimeograph something on every chair of every reporter, like a thousand reporters from all over the world trying to cover this thing, on the chairs in the auditorium prior to people coming in and covering the next news conference.
And I went over and I picked up one, and I looked at it, and I couldn't believe what I was seeing, because in addition to the broadsheet, which I'll get to in a moment, there was also a little Mylar aluminum American flag, which Mylar was a big deal in those days.
It was a brand new substance.
Yeah, I remember.
Very excited.
So the Mylar flag was kind of like rah-rah, you know, patriotic America, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
That was designed to hook you.
You know, it was like a bright bauble.
You'd reach out and pick that up.
The broadsheet was the amazing thing because it was this one-page Mimeo thing, I think folded over, and it said basically that NASA had faked the moon landings.
Remember, this is before the astronauts even are home.
They're still falling back toward Earth.
They're not going to splash down in the Pacific for another day and a half.
And in NASA's official press room in California, with a thousand-plus reporters covering the missions, the dual missions from all over the world, NASA is somehow sanctioning this guy to hand out this little pamphlet claiming that NASA faked the whole thing in a movie studio.
So what was that all about?
Well, what was even more unbelievable is that then the head of NASA Public Affairs came out and got this guy and brought him back to the press room, which was outside the auditorium, to personally introduce him to several of the top reporters for the New York Times, the LA Times, NBC, CBS, ABC.
And I'm standing there and I'm quite unbelieving because I can't imagine, since it was so difficult to get in that place in the first place, I couldn't imagine why Bristow, Frank Bristow, who was the NASA guy's name, was squiring this guy around and introducing him, particularly after I'd read this little pamphlet.
Well, like everybody else, I threw the pamphlet in the wastebasket.
We went on and covered Apollo 11 and Mariner 6 and Mariner 7, etc.
It was only later, literally decades later when Fox, I forget what year, had that famous special, The We Never Went to the Moon, that was all a hoax, that I remembered that guy and that pamphlet, and I realized that NASA itself had planted,
like planting a meme, like planting some cultural virus with people that might raise up their heads and ask questions about what NASA really found in these lunar excursions.
Why did we really spend all that money?
Why did we beat Kennedy's deadline in the middle of the Cold War?
Why did we spend all that, you know, hard-earned cash?
The answer, of course, is what NASA really found and has kept secret all these decades, 40-plus years.
That pamphlet, then, was a diversionary tactic, just in case.
Right.
Exactly.
Now, I was on Coast to Coast, which is the network American radio show that I do from time to time, and I recounted this story just the other night.
And Jerry Pornell, who I don't know whether he's famous over there, but he's a very well-known science fiction writer, and he was a friend, by the way, of Robert Heinlein, who I had introduced to CBS and actually got on the air during our coverage.
Jerry Pornell sent an email to George Nouri, who hosts Coast, saying that he remembers that little pamphlet.
So I have a witness now, and I'm hoping I'm going to have more, because that is, of course, the heart of the diversion.
It was absolutely disinformation.
It was designed to make people decades later who might wonder what it is that we found up there.
Why does Neil Armstrong not participate in any of the ceremonies?
You know that Howard, he is not going to participate in the official NASA ceremony tomorrow?
Well, I find that absolutely astonishing.
And there can only, well, there can be a couple of reasons for it, but the reason that comes to my mind first is that this man does not want any part of the charade that you say has been, you know, has been perpetrated on the public, both sides of the Atlantic, for all of these decades.
Well, see, I think Deal Armstrong has integrity.
I think he has done the minimal amount to protect his agency because they keep calling it the NASA family.
And what's really remarkable to me is that we have a new president, you know, Barack Obama.
He's invited on the 40th anniversary, all the astronauts, over to the White House on Monday, which is the 20th, the anniversary.
And Neil Armstrong is not going to be there.
That, to me, is absolutely astonishing that he is not going to show up at the White House for the 40th anniversary of the most important step that humankind has taken so far.
And to me, that is very, very telling, along with a few things that Armstrong has said over the years, that all is not as NASA has represented it.
And I think we're building toward critical mass, Howard.
I think more and more people, I just opened up through a friend of mine, an editor of one of the major newspapers here in the United States, a Facebook account.
If people go to Enterprisemission.com, they can find the link to Facebook, and that lets you kind of keep in touch with this on a more regular basis.
And an awful lot of people, I mean, thousands of people are there now.
A lot of them are suspecting that what I've been saying about NASA all these years is in fact true.
And they point to the unusual, anomalous behavior of the first man on the moon who doesn't want to acknowledge that he was the first man on the moon.
It's absolutely crazy, unless you understand, as Paul Harvey used to say, the rest of the story.
Yep.
So our time is very, very limited on this forum, but you and I will talk a greater length about this very, very soon on my other outlet, which is a webcast radio show called The Unexplained.
But let's just summarize, if you can do it in 60 seconds, what you believe is the truth about the moon that we have not been told properly or even at all over these 40 years.
Well, as I wrote in Dark Mission, I believe President Kennedy was enjoined, convinced by means of evidence from his staff, by certain people that were brought to him, to undertake going to the moon because there are extraordinary riches and prizes and technology and science and knowledge to be won for all mankind.
And unfortunately, with his death, instead of giving it to all mankind as he planned, it was kept within the sacred halls of NASA and it has not seen the light of day except for some weeks and some investigations such as ours.
That day is coming to an end.
I firmly believe that the time for this cover-up is coming to an end.
And I base that on the opinion of a lot of Americans who are writing to me, emailing that I talk to when I do these programs, who are obviously looking around and asking deeper questions now than have ever been asked before.
So all I can say to all your listeners, Howard, is stay tuned.
The most extraordinary revelations of Apollo are yet to come.
This is the Unexplained Round the World with me, Howard Hughes.
Please visit our website, which is www.theunexplained.tv.
You've just heard the views of Richard C. Hoagland.
40 years since man went to the moon.
What do you think?
Now, a very special event here on this website, a studio conversation recorded very recently with Larry Warren.
Until recently, he's kept reasonably quiet about this.
Now he's speaking again about it.
These were his experiences, he says, on the night that something happened near a U.S. airbase in the UK back in 1980.
If you know anything about UFOs, you will know the name Rendlesham Forest.
I wrote a book about the Rendlesham Forest thing.
I went through it, and I was the first whistleblower, per se, for lack of a better word, on what happened to us.
And I met my ex-wife while we were touring England with a book in 97.
And I have a little fella, a little son.
Okay, so that's why you've got to be here in Liverpool.
He's a rocking guy.
He's my buddy.
And how do you find this city?
You happy here?
Oh, I love Liverpool.
I know a lot of people here, and it's a great town.
It's very generous, great heart.
And it's put up with me for about nine years, so it's got to be pretty darn good.
Well, it put up with me for my 400 years.
And then I left for a period.
Now, Rendlesham Forest, very beginning of the 1980s, I think it was 1980, was it?
It was December 1980, and I was in the U.S. Air Force at Bentwater's Woodbridge, East Anglia.
It's near Ipswich.
And if anyone's seen Dog Borstal with about the misbehaving dogs on BBC, that's filmed on that base.
Didn't know that.
Yeah, full of trivia.
God knows, you live long enough and you train dogs on your base.
But the Cold War ended.
There was no need for the base.
And I was forced protection, security police, and we guarded nuclear weapons that officially weren't there.
And very quickly, because a lot of people know this thing, it's on documentaries and all that over the years.
I was involved on the third night of UFO, because there's no other word for them, activity in and around the area of the Twin Base complex.
And being security police, we brought lighting equipment out.
I had no idea two previous nights of activity, which were profound.
And encountered, just in a nutshell, we encountered some objects in the sky and on the ground in Capel Green.
It's part of Rendlesham Forest.
And it was like they expected this was going to return, and there were cameras and photographic things.
It was well documented.
You've heard the audio tape that Charles Holt made.
Well, Charles Holt was the base commander, wasn't he?
He was a deputy base commander.
And when you hear those tapes, and we don't have those right now, but the tapes are scary to listen to because you have people here who are hardened military people who sound scared.
They do.
Yeah, you're right.
Perplexed at the least.
That tape you can hear on the internet, I think, if you go to the HALT tape.
Everything's on the internet.
And what was profound about it, when I first heard it, was in 1984, a Japanese film crew had it and said if I went to Japan and this and that, I'd get the tape.
I got it and turned it over to CNN, a guy named Chuck DeCaro.
And so it didn't just pop out eight years ago with, you know, in England.
It's been public record for years, and it's for everyone to...
I mean, we saw the point of contention here, there is the science writers like Ian Ridpath who claimed this was a lighthouse.
And like my boss said, I never saw a lighthouse that moved, and this moved because we followed it.
Plus, there was radiation there, wasn't there?
There was.
Nick Pope from the MOD is better to talk about that.
It was higher than the normal background radiation.
I don't know anything about Geiger counters.
I saw them with Geiger counters.
But what we saw was profound.
And I know what it wasn't.
I don't know what it was.
But I also know that the days of debriefing that we went through, myself and my brothers, was intense and it was damaging.
And now, after all these years, I plowed the driveway first, took all the, well, the C-word for doing so.
And then as you do, someone had to do it because there were a lot of problems with people had assuming this was a religious thing.
It was the devil.
An air base or any military base, even in England, is like a small community.
And America is quite vast.
So you have people from all different walks of life thrown into this.
So what Were all of those people?
It is a community, a huge community, it was at the time.
Between themselves, they had a couple of nights of this.
Word goes round like wildfire.
What were they saying?
Well, the rumor mill wasn't...
There weren't rumors because it was all clamped down quite seriously.
It was December.
It was Christmas holiday.
And our big worry right then, at that time, there was a guy Lekwoletsa in Poland, and the Russians were going to roll onto Western Europe.
They were massing to do that, and we were waiting for them to do it.
So that was the focus.
So you had this thing going on.
It wasn't a satellite dropping.
It was, I don't know if it's from another planet, another dimension.
I know it wasn't built in Detroit.
There's no way.
Did you confront, meet, see, experience?
That's a good word, and we both know why, beings.
Yes.
All right, and how did the beings...
Well, that's another thing where I think that Bob Fran, remember Sky TV years ago, he was the BBC guy in New York in 83, and he interviewed me for a thing called Breakfast Time back in those days.
And he came up, they did some very fancy editing.
I never said there was communication.
If there were, it would have been with a guy named Gordon Williams, who's never really confirmed, denied his role.
It's always been yuck, yuck.
You know, it's the old boy network.
They pull in the wagon.
But I've heard stories, and maybe they are just internet stories.
Right.
I've heard stories that suggest that the people who were directly involved, and at a later stage you were one of those people, of course, directly involved in this, understood on a level that they didn't know and hadn't experienced what they were dealing with.
They had an understanding of something that was beyond their knowledge.
Yeah, well, that's right.
There was just an opinion of mine, how senior people acted, where then there was a protocol in place if such an event were to take place.
But it was very science fiction-y and time seemed very slow.
And we weren't on drugs and all.
We were at a severe nuclear base and, you know, NATO, a very important base, and we're all checked for dope and all this before we go on duty.
We're carrying big guns and all that kind of thing.
We're trained, you know, to repel Russian special forces if they took the base.
So it was serious business.
So you're not going to come up with, you know, make something worse.
That was my opinion.
And I think the story here is not, because I don't have the pictures.
You know, all I can say is 30 years ago almost, I went through this thing that changed my life.
Talking to other guys now, all these years later, it changed their lives.
How did it change your life?
Well, you know, the world you thought you were in, the government and the way things were, it wasn't the way you thought it was.
I mean, they are aware that this goes on, that there's someone else here.
And I guess the proof to you that you were dealing with what you thought you were dealing with was the intensity of the debriefing.
What did they put you through?
Well, we were debriefed.
There were also fellas from your MI, one of your MI somebodies, and there was a lot of sodium pentothal and narcotic intervention.
Hold on.
Well, they gave injections to guys, including...
Pentothol is the truth drug.
So they administered, you're saying they administered drugs to get your correct story out of you.
Well, that would be how the police would do it.
But when you have these spooks do it, they could, from what I understand, they could administer sodium pentothal, put you in kind of a narcotic sleep, and then alter what you are remembering.
You didn't go through that.
I did go through that, and now it's been verified by other people, John Burroughs, Jim Penniston.
You're having all these guys now retired and heading on 50, if not over, or 60, saying enough's enough.
You scared talking about this.
Well, I've been doing it for a lot of years, and I haven't done it in the last three or so.
But it needed to be, and sometimes you want to set the record straight.
I've done it around the world.
There's no money in this.
I wrote a best-selling book, and I never saw a nickel from it called Left at East Gate.
And that's just the nature.
I didn't write it for that.
I ask you if you're worried about your own security for, and you're a tough guy, so you may worry.
We all are.
You may worry, but I think there will be an extent.
Well, yes, we know about that.
Let me tell you.
But, you know, the fact of the matter is there is a certain amount of concern among some people who've experienced things and even people who talk about these things that somewhere, someone down the line is going to monitor you.
I've even had my own experience.
I did a show about some of these things a while back.
A few weeks later, I had a guy outside the radio station, two guys in a black limousine with a camera on the dashboard of their car, and there was no one else around.
It was the dead of night, following me.
What was that all about?
Well, I can tell you right off, whatever it is from my experience, I'm no expert on nothing, but my experience was simply this, is that through the debriefing, I learned at 19 years old that our governments are absolutely terrified of this reality because it can't be controlled.
How deep this runs, where it goes.
But you still have no idea whatever this was, if it was anything, where it came from.
No, and I wouldn't have believed them if they had told me.
They did say there was off-earth technologies that they've known about longer than any of us in this room were there.
We're all debriefed according to our release.
So the debriefers told you that you had experienced something.
What's it called?
Off-earth technology.
Off-earth technology.
Yeah.
So there's the confirmation.
Now, listen, this may sound quite neat to you.
Here on Drive Time at City Talk 105.9, I'm really sorry to say that as usual for a show like this, our time is limited.
So you're going to be speaking in more depth about this, aren't you, at an event happening in Liverpool in September?
Well, it's called Beyond Knowledge, and it's rocking good.
It's happening in this town because so much is going on good in this town.
It's a big conference about all of this.
It's got Jim Mars.
It's got some of the top dogs I've worked with and the honor of working with over the years.
But I'm going to be narrating it.
I've done doing the performing monkey.
I wanted to try a new kind of role, and I'm going to introduce these heroes.
And I think people should come on out and in these dark times see some light.
If You want to hear more of Larry Warren?
Very, very soon.
I'm going to put an extended version of this conversation on my website, which is theunexplained.tv.
For now, for this radio show, we have to leave it.
Larry Warren, thank you.
This is City Talk 105.9.
Continuing now with Larry Warren on the Unexplained here, this is the special edition of this conversation, which will go on for another 15 minutes or thereabouts.
Tell me then, when you started to have the idea that you wanted to take this story out there, what was that experience like for you?
How difficult was that decision to make?
Well, that's a great question.
Boy, you always hope for good questions.
I never get them.
It's a rarity that we have.
What do the beings look like?
What it was was, you know, you live kind of, you come out of the military and you've gone through the black hole Disneyland and you come out the other side.
Yeah, I left honorably and then you come back in the real world and you're kind of not right, you know.
When you say not right.
Well, you know, you're just kind of wild, you know.
And you're dealing with things that there's no one to go to to deal with because there's no, you know, how do you deal with a UFO?
Probably the best documented military UFO experience in history, even bar Roswell.
We'd win in a court of law.
Nick Pope worked for the Ministry of Defense and is now an independent consultant on all of this.
And he's told me many times that if anything was the real deal, this was.
This is it.
I'm biased, but Roswell, God bless those fellas.
They're all passed on, most of them.
I can say that if we walked into a court of law with the evidence and such things were decided, I believe we would win.
I mean, but what do we win?
Because it's such a bizarre phenomena.
It does affect people daily.
Well, let's face it, if we assume, and it is a big leap, but we've talked about it many times here on this show, if we assume the powers that be both sides of the Atlantic and around the world know the agenda, know there is something else wherever it may be from, they don't want that information out there.
So I presume one of the things that they would try to do first is to discredit people like you.
And how do you do that?
Well, over the years, we've seen you try and make their stories appear trivial.
Well, or like BS, or you attack the character.
In the old days, they'd pop you maybe with a nice gun from a roof.
maybe three of them like Kennedy, not one.
And nowadays, No, I think there was a lot of political issues at the time that the mob whacked him on a contract.
All anyone has to do is go to Daily Plaza and it answers your question right there, where the angles came from.
But Jim Mars is brilliant on that.
Jim Myers is one of the worst people.
My hero conspiracy theorists, for want of a better word, I've talked with Jim Myers a few times.
I think he's the best.
And of course, he's coming to the Beyond Knowledge Conference in Liverpool in September as well.
And he will be worth it for the admission fee alone.
Oh, absolutely, man.
He is.
You know, the guy was a big newspaper man in Texas.
And he's also dealt with Rendell Schim in his book, Alien Agenda.
And, you know, the guy's just, he does his homework.
There's no bias.
He knows it is what it is.
But the Kennedy thing, I have to say, Jim inspired me when we were working on this book we did Left at East Skate.
It was nine and a half years of work, about $100,000 of traveling, this and that.
So if people say you're in it for the money, that can't be.
If there was a drive, and you asked me briefly, Howard, about how one goes forward with it.
So I was living with all kinds of this stuff.
It goes back to that.
And I saw how it happened to me wasn't, I want to go out and be in newspapers and television and documentaries and write books and all this.
Ooh, what a deal I got.
I was kind of confused, and I didn't feel my family were the type people, very conservative, that I could talk to about it.
So what I did, and I told some friends of mine, we were drinking some beers, and they just started laughing and all this.
And, you know, I thought it was the funniest thing I've ever come up with.
Nowadays, 30 years later, like, geez, man, we're so sorry.
We had no idea.
But as time went on, I found this newspaper article about a couple in a nearby town I lived in, and about an experience they went through, and it listed where the guy worked.
And I had just had teeth and oral surgery, and I just had to call this guy, and I said, listen, I need to talk to somebody.
Bada bang, boom.
And it got, it all sprung from there.
One guy knew this guy and Freedom of Information Act people.
And I gave them the information, and they said, we'll see what we can find.
And long and short of it, an actual document, the HALT memo came out because of my information.
It's an actual document.
You're saying that you were the spur.
I'm the guy.
You're getting them to release the information that they did release from the deputy base commander.
I'm the guy.
You're talking to him.
I just wanted credit where it was due.
It came out because of me.
The HALT tape came out because of me.
And I never held on to it for money.
I was offered five grand by the National Inquirer, that rag, to sell that thing when it first came out.
And I said, I remember my father saying, is that yours to sell?
Is your name on it?
I said, no.
And he said, don't do it.
And so public record.
There it is.
What about the other people who are involved in this, though?
Why have they not been more public with their stories?
Well, they've been public.
They just haven't written books.
And a lot of them have federal employment.
A lot of them are frightened.
A lot of them are messed up.
But I will tell you, my co-author, Peter Robbins, who will also be at the Beyond Knowledge Conference, has just done a radio show with another primary witness, very important, named John Burroughs.
And these guys are profoundly affected by these events.
John was involved in not only the first night, but the third night, which was mine.
There weren't two nights.
It was three nights of activity, which I've always said.
Now it's verified.
So you have all these guys in their own way, and still there's a silent majority, because I've seen what's happened to fellas like myself.
I mean, we've had federal interdiction into all kinds.
What they do is they hurt you financially.
They hurt you in all kinds of ways.
Well, there are stories that these people, if they want to, and I don't necessarily buy into all of this, can go into the computer databases.
They can affect your creditworthiness.
They can even make you cease to exist as a family.
Well, they denied I ever served in the Air Force, and my military record to this day is classified.
Now, if that doesn't say something, I will tell you another thing.
And here's some things that debunkers can challenge, which they never do.
I've never been caught in a lie on this thing ever.
I mean, I've put myself out.
Take me down, baby, and they don't do it because they sit there and snipe from their armchair.
And that's the safe haven, especially with this crazy internet thing.
Every coward can dance on that.
Well, here's my name, Larry Warren.
I live so-and-so.
I'm easy to find.
Come and bring it on, man.
Bring your facts, and I'll bring mine.
But they don't.
And I've been doing it 30 years.
So you're telling them, go ahead, make my day.
Make my day.
I've said this for years.
It never happens, so it's a waste of energy.
But the end of the day is that what answered it for me, and you can get in this paranoid thing like, oh, they're following me and all this.
I'm not a subscriber to that.
I've had mail officially opened, resealed.
I've had my passport suppressed and absolutely suspended by my government when Timothy Goode was having me on a documentary here because I mentioned we had nuclear weapons on those bases.
That's why it'd be of extreme defense significance, just like Admiral of the fleet, Peter Hill Norton, used to say.
And he was the commander of all your armed forces in his...
They go, oh, he's just an old man.
Well, that old man ran all your military up to 1973.
So I think.
So if anybody knows stuff, people know stuff about it.
Yeah, of course.
You mentioned Timothy Goode.
Timothy Goods told me a story about doing some conference in the United States, and he left some papers in his hotel room about all of it, and those papers disappeared.
Disappeared.
I mean, you could fill books on all the weirdness.
But the last thing with me, Howard, was I had the honor of doing the original and one and only, in my opinion, disclosure conference at the National Press Club in 2001 in Washington, D.C. And I was with 20 other military witnesses, guys that ran air bases, not low-ranking guys like myself.
And a lot of them said, you know, we are here because we read your book.
You just didn't know how the machine worked.
And so the prices they paid were less, but they went through things no less.
But the first hour of that conference, there were 3 million people ready to log on.
By the first minute of it launching at 9 a.m., it was the best press conference at the NPC, even with a president speaking at it.
We surpassed that.
That's the National Press Club.
In D.C. You wouldn't have known it by that night, the way the news, you know, they gave it to the weatherman, but it was the best, and we had standing ovations.
And that web link was absolutely knocked down from within the beltway in Washington artificially.
And this wasn't UFO people saying it.
It was CNN who were running the uplink saying, we're being jammed for the first hour.
And they lost a million and a half people.
That is astonishing.
It doesn't actually surprise me.
It may surprise some people hearing this for the first time, but those kind of things I believe do happen.
That proved it all to me.
Does it concern you?
Does it perplex you at this stage in your life that there are people out there who are trying to get what they believe sincerely to be the truth out?
People like Richard C. Hoagland, who you will know who has his theories about the moon.
We've talked with him many times here.
Enmorram.
Old friend of mine.
All those people who have so much to say about this.
None of it in this country, the UK, or in the United States, very seldom anyway, but I would say probably almost never.
None of it makes news.
None of it makes front page national news.
There are other things to talk about that they talk about.
They talk about the economy and politics.
They never talk about football and football.
Well, you know, that's okay in this city.
But the fact of the matter is, if all of this is true, this is bigger than anything any of us will ever encounter.
And yet it doesn't make news.
Well, that's the reason.
And, you know, governments need control.
And I don't, you have to deport me if you want.
But my government, I have no doubt, sets policy for our allies on this subject than they have for 60 years.
Would you rather live in the UK than the U.S.?
Do you feel safer here?
I feel that, you know, I don't know, man.
You know, the beer is better here.
So I can't go back.
Hey, they've got some great beer in Boston.
Sam Adams in Boston can't get that over here.
I can't go back.
No, no.
I love England.
I go back a long time.
I went to school in Essex for a year, and, you know, I was just hooked on it.
And the Beatles, you know, there's no one bigger fan.
I'll argue with anyone than me.
But, you know, those boys, aren't they great?
But, you know, at the end of the day, you can't live looking over your shoulder because, you know, if I can say this, the bastard subject of the 20th and 21st centuries.
So, you know, you're pretty much cutting your own head off anyway by opening your mouth.
But things are much different than when I first came out, and people are standing up.
But when you do, Sonny Barger, who founded, really made a certain motorcycle club what it is, for better or for worse, said freedom ain't free.
And, you know what?
That's the truth.
There's a price when it's worth it.
And you feel it's worth paying that price because you have to an extent.
Oh, I've definitely to an extent and beyond.
But many others have for different righteous causes.
And you've got to have something you believe in.
Now, I've laid low for the last few years, and then you start worrying when you have children, obviously you worry about, well, you know, do what you will with me, but, you know, then you're putting maybe a young person.
You worry about them, number one.
And number two, of course, they've got to have a father.
They've got to have a dad.
Every kid, if possible, needs a dad.
That's another problem.
You have to tell me what you're saying.
But you can't run away from this stuff.
It's who you are.
Here's what really perplexes and worries me about you.
I worry for you, I think, because I'm concerned that you may, hopefully many, many, many, many years, I'm sure, many couple of decades, several decades from now, go to your grave.
Let's make it three, four decades.
Go to your grave, not knowing the truth about all of this, not knowing what this thing was that you encountered.
Now, for me, if I was in your situation, that would disturb me.
That would cause me sleepless nights.
Yeah.
I just want on my gravestone, I'll borrow this from Hunter S. Thompson.
And I love the saying, it just wasn't weird enough.
And leave it at that.
My thing is, there's a lot of people that have been absolutely crucified for standing up for this stuff in the States and here.
UFOs are seen in England.
It's not a Yankee thing And not seen by farmers.
They're seen over New York City, they're seen over London.
Enough of these nonsense.
But there's a lot of people that stand up for righteous things that need to be talked about.
50 years from now, it might be, oh, God, remember when that stuff was so kept down?
But someone's got to do it.
You got to take a stand for something righteous in your life or you ain't living.
And I want that to be passed down to my son, but also knowing that if you stand up for an unpopular truth, there's a risk.
Now, you don't want a risk, but you got to do it.
Your Constitution gives you rights to do that.
I've seen these debunkers beat up on women, say abductees, or people that allege that these things have happened to them at night.
They find implants for these.
Massachusetts Institute of Technology have absolutely studied these.
As you know, Dr. Roger Leo.
Oh, I know Roger.
He was trying to get next to Robbie.
He wanted me to give him Robbie Williams' phone number for funding or something.
Roger's a great guy, does great work.
But this stuff affects a lot of people, and you're just simply not going to talk about it openly with every good reason.
But I know famous people who have been through this, political people, law enforcement officers that have been touched by this phenomenon.
It ain't going away.
It's a real thing.
People can stay drunk, drugged up, follow the football, the baseball, the this, that, and the other, and keep distracted and let these bums running the countries, mine and yours, keep doing what they do.
Or you bring it to the streets and you make it what it is and you have your voice out there.
At least they know you're on to them.
My confidence is not in.
I'm deported next week.
Could well be, Larry.
But it's nice to have seen you here, just in case you are.
But my fear for it all is that the truth, if it is out there as people claim it is, will never entirely get up because there will be enough people spreading disinformation to make sure that never, ever happens.
Yeah, the D-word's it, man.
And you just got to have your BS meter on all the time.
And, you know, obviously, you know, don't take anyone's word.
Look into it.
But, you know, obviously the world's in a real mess.
I think it's artificial.
We're all being enslaved.
I mean, every day it's disgusting, man.
And I hate seeing what's happening to people worrying about their jobs and everything.
And, you know, with our new president, the rainbows haven't flown out of other parts of my body over it.
And I wish him well.
But meet the new boss, same as the old bosses.
My brother's the Who said.
Same old, same old.
Same old, same old.
You mentioned Robbie Williams, famous British rock star, nice guy.
Met him a few years back.
Really down-to-earth man, if you pardon the expression.
But not only down-to-earth, he's now interested in UFOs and aliens.
He's living in Los Angeles, although he hasn't really had hits in America.
He's not that well known over there.
It's all gangster rap there.
Who wants that?
Totally, but he'll get his break at some point.
Yeah, he's great.
You know him.
How did he get into all of this?
He's had an interest, I think, like a lot of people since he was younger.
And so it didn't just pop up, you know, for the star to write crazy articles about.
You know, he's a very grounded guy.
I know he's had his day party, and we all have.
And I just found him really just a decent guy.
He wanted to meet me.
I was honored and surprised how big a guy was.
And we just chain-smoked together and hung out with his nice girlfriend who's an actress.
And, you know, he's just a lot of respect there, mutual respect, and just talked about how funny it is to see yourself get old on TV.
And he's a big boy, though.
You want to mess around with him.
And he's a lovely guy.
And, you know, he's a credit to this country.
He's a great entertainer.
But he has more interest than just now.
Yeah, I guess with that other band he was in, I guess he got a little arrogant.
That can happen when you're young.
But he's a righteous guy.
I think he's just trying to find answers in his life.
Don't you think it's interesting that an awful lot of big-name entertainers like that claim to have been experiencers, like John Lennon was one.
He said he saw them over New York.
Well, he did.
He saw him over East 52nd Street.
He was living with Mae Pang at the time.
And John did.
And he wrote on the liner notes of his album Walls and Bridges.
I saw a UFO this night, August 1974.
And righteous, there's a guy standing up again.
Let's go beyond the celebrity.
Even Elvis.
Elvis Baby did too, you know.
But John did it.
John printed it, where a lot of people nowadays in this phony 15 minutes of being famous for whatever God knows reason they are.
Yeah, I say do something, stand up.
And you get rare people like John Lennon, who is a rare person, great guy.
He has faults and all this.
But I wish he was around, man.
He'd be a rocking guy.
He'd be so interested in what's happening with the subject because he had a deep interest.
And he was also a subscriber to Flying Saucer Review.
I didn't know that.
Regularly, even when he lived in New York, and always kept up on it, had an amazing sighting.
And I wrote about it some years ago, which is, I think, on a website, on the internet.
Someone put it on there because I knew Mei Pang.
So I had a kind of a secondhand, first-hand view of it.
Okay, now your life is not exactly obscure now, and you said you've been in the wilderness a little for the last few years, partly for your kids' sake.
Self-imposed.
Yeah, self-imposed.
Chasing a buck.
Exile, you're coming out of it all now.
Where do you want to go with this?
What do you want to do next?
You want to make, I don't know, DVD, a movie, another book?
What?
I'm thinking of writing a new book somehow, because there's no magic in it.
The magic in books is like getting your money, you know, because they're robbing...
I won't say the other part.
All of you know what I mean.
We know that word.
And a few more.
And they are, you know, but it's, but I'm going to add a few more.
And I think what I'm doing is I've been thinking about this for a long time.
And I'm going to, I have the title already, like Left at East Gate.
It came to me.
is called misguided missile 30 years in the ufo sideshow talk about a lot of so i This is my thing.
I worked at Grateful Dead and a lot of Steve Rayvol.
I had a lot of pleasure, honors to work with a lot of people.
And they all had interest in things beyond just the art.
And so there's a lot of funny stories.
And I'd rather laugh than cry.
And I'd rather just take another stab at another book, maybe.
All right.
Final question.
This may be the kicker.
I don't know.
Rendlesham Forest, you were part of it.
Yes.
Always being claimed to be one of the biggest contact experiences that this planet has experienced, has had down the decades.
That is known.
How come there was no repeat of that or something like it in the UK, as far as we know?
Well, the sightings in the UK, I would venture a guess, happen every day, depending on, you know, your police helicopters have had near misses with them in Wales.
I think something on the scale this was, there was something more to this.
It was very big and involved an awful lot of people, including Suffolk Constable Airy, your police, which lied.
But anyway, that's the nature of the beast there.
And the most important thing is the people who debriefed you confirmed what you thought it was.
Well, they told us something, whether they're right or wrong, or it was an experiment.
Or maybe that was disinformation.
Yes, it was.
Which brings me back to the point you're never really going to know.
You're never going to know.
Unless the aliens come and knock on your door in Liverpool one day and say, all right, Larry, you know, just before you depart this earth, we want you to know the truth.
You won't actually know.
No, it'll probably be the feds knocking on my door before them, but those tax issues.
You don't look like a man who's worried too much.
Ah, man.
You know, what are you going to do?
You live, you die.
Just remember, I always go by the motto, it just wasn't weird enough.
As we say here in Liverpool, C'est la vie.
Right off, man.
Larry Warren, a real pleasure to meet you.
Thank you, Howard.
And thank you to Dave Truman from the Beyond Knowledge Conference in Liverpool for facilitating this, making this happen for us.
This has been a conversation, part of which was broadcast at City Talk 105.9 in Liverpool, and the rest of the story, as a great man in America, once said you heard here on the Unexplained website.
Adam Cornwell is the man behind this website.
If you'd like to get in touch with this show, please click on the link or you can email me direct at unexplainedh at yahoo.co.uk.
This has been a special edition of The Unexplained with me, Howard Hughes, from Liverpool, from the studios of Radio City.
It's been a great pleasure to do this.
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