Uncensored - Piers Morgan - 'STAND For The Dead Soldiers!' Israel 'PR Crisis' Over Iran & Hezbollah War
Aired: 2026-04-21
Duration: 49:34


=== Cratering Support for Israel (01:31) ===

[00:00:00]  This government has to be very careful now that it doesn't drive more and more people to hate Israel.
[00:00:07]  You said Israelis should stand up against Ben Gvir Smutrich, but they're going to be voting for them in larger numbers in the next election.
[00:00:13]  The siren is now.
[00:00:15]  We should remember also the Palestinian victims at this moment.
[00:00:18]  He doesn't stand up for the dead soldiers, so he's not really Israeli.
[00:00:22]  He's a foreign funded hater.
[00:00:24]  There's not one party that represents you.
[00:00:26]  You're out.
[00:00:27]  The Arab parties, they represent him.
[00:00:30]  You would have been murdered by Hamas on October 7 if they got killed.
[00:00:33]  Close to you as well.
[00:00:36]  It may come as a shock to viewers in the many places where the Iran war is deeply unpopular, but some communities in Israel staged a protest this weekend against the ceasefire in Lebanon.
[00:00:45]  Israel sees its war on Hezbollah as inseparable from the Iran war.
[00:00:49]  Most Israelis support it.
[00:00:50]  And there's every chance that Netanyahu will suffer big political consequences if Trump decrees an early end to the war that Netanyahu persuaded him to start.
[00:00:59]  In any case, the state of Israel could be living with the consequences of Netanyahu's decisions for many years to come.
[00:01:04]  Many formerly reliable allies of Israel eventually condemned the war in Gaza and moved to recognize a Palestinian state.
[00:01:10]  Well, today the Spanish government will formally ask the entire European Union to sever its ties with Israel over its violations of international law.
[00:01:18]  And here in the United States, where it matters most, support for Israel is cratering.
[00:01:22]  The days of unanimous bipartisan support are done.
[00:01:26]  Young people have turned in droves.
[00:01:30]  Gen Z, that rising generation.

=== Testing the Moral Army Claim (09:13) ===

[00:01:32]  Look at this.
[00:01:34]  Three quarters of Gen Z say they sympathize more with the Palestinians than the Israelis.
[00:01:39]  That's a massive sea change.
[00:01:41]  Well, every candidate to succeed Donald Trump as president, whether Democrat or Republican, will now have to take a position on this profound change in public opinion.
[00:01:48]  Democratic presidential hopeful Rahm Emanuel, who's Jewish, is calling for the U.S. to end preferential treatment for Israel altogether.
[00:01:56]  We don't subsidize Great Britain buying weapons, we don't supply or financial assistance to Japan.
[00:02:02]  Israel's a very wealthy nation.
[00:02:03]  There should be no more taxpayer support for what they want to do.
[00:02:06]  And they get the same.
[00:02:08]  deal that any one of our allies do, they have to abide by the laws of the United States if they're going to buy X weapons.
[00:02:14]  And that's how it should be constructed.
[00:02:16]  Jake's point, and I agree with this, is the Prime Minister went to this president like he's gone to four other presidents.
[00:02:22]  And every one of the other presidents said, not a chance of we doing that because the equities are not worth it.
[00:02:27]  This president bought it.
[00:02:28]  He has responsibility as a commander-in-chief.
[00:02:31]  And I think he made a big mistake for it.
[00:02:35]  Well, all of this amounts to an extraordinary, unprecedented shift in a country where presidential candidates traditionally rank their support for Israel on a scale of 9 to 10.
[00:02:43]  Whether Israel can do anything to remedy this is unclear.
[00:02:47]  What is clear is that photos of the IDF attacking icons of Jesus with a sledgehammer are unlikely to resolve the situation.
[00:02:55]  Joining me to debate all of this is former Israeli hostage negotiator Gershon Baskin, retired lieutenant colonel and IDF spokesman Jonathan Konrickes, Ishai Fleischer, the international spokesperson, the Jewish community of Hebron, an advisor to the Israeli government.
[00:03:09]  And Gideon Levy, author and commentator for Haretz.
[00:03:12]  So, welcome to all of you.
[00:03:14]  Jonathan Conrickus, let's just start, if we may, with this appalling image of an IDF soldier in southern Lebanon attacking and destroying an icon of Jesus Christ with a sledgehammer.
[00:03:31]  This has now been confirmed by Israel.
[00:03:34]  Benjamin Netanyahu said today, I was stunned and saddened to learn that an IDF soldier.
[00:03:39]  Damaged a Catholic religious icon in southern Lebanon.
[00:03:42]  I condemn the act in the strongest terms.
[00:03:45]  We express regret for the incident and for any hurt this has caused to believers in Lebanon and around the world.
[00:03:51]  And the IDF itself posted on X the IDF views the incident with great severity and emphasizes the soldier's conduct is wholly inconsistent with the values expected of his troops.
[00:04:01]  The IDF is working to assist the community in restoring the statue to its place.
[00:04:07]  A priest in Debel said the cross was part of a small shrine in the garden of a family living on the edge of the village.
[00:04:13]  There will be many American Christians, Jonathan, who are already probably reeling if they're Catholic from President Trump's constant attacks against Pope Leo.
[00:04:25]  But they're now looking at this and thinking, why are we supporting this attack on Iran with Israel if the IDF in Lebanon are desecrating icons of Jesus Christ?
[00:04:39]  What would you say to them?
[00:04:42]  Yeah, I wouldn't.
[00:04:42]  Hello, Piers.
[00:04:43]  Shalom from Israel.
[00:04:45]  I wouldn't make any connection between the two different things.
[00:04:49]  One is American foreign policy, the pursuit of defeating the Iranian regime, making sure that they don't have nuclear weapons and protecting Americans and American interests from a future significant threat against the U.S. That's one thing.
[00:05:05]  That's the why the U.S. is fighting against Iran.
[00:05:08]  It has absolutely nothing to do with this reprehensible act, criminal act by an Israeli soldier.
[00:05:15]  I hope that what the Prime Minister said and what the IDF has publicly said will happen, that there will be swift and transparent disciplinary measures.
[00:05:25]  This is a soldier who I don't think he is fit to serve, definitely not in combat and maybe not in the IDF at all, and should be punished for desecrating a religious symbol.
[00:05:37]  And I think it's absolutely contrary to everything that we stand for.
[00:05:41]  I could only wish that, you know, I saw your tweet, which got a million views, and I've seen lots of other coverage of it.
[00:05:48]  Obviously, the usual people are out there feasting, not necessarily you in this category, but the usual anti Semites feasting on this reprehensible act by an IDF soldier.
[00:06:00]  Didn't see these same people even tweet when hundreds of Christians were massacred in Nigeria, or when churches were bombed and desecrated by Muslims in Syria, or Iran, or Iraq, or any other place, or when Arab Christians in Palestine are.
[00:06:22]  Forced to flee out of persecution by Sunni Muslims.
[00:06:26]  It is something special when Jews are caught on camera doing horrible and indefensible actions to Christian symbols.
[00:06:35]  But I suggest that we put, you know, we check and treat everything as equal.
[00:06:42]  Last thing I'll say, and I think the Prime Minister said it pretty clearly, if we put things into context and to answer the question of, you know, Christians supporting Israel, Israel is the only country in the Middle East where Christians are safe.
[00:06:54]  Israel is the only country where there's freedom of worship in the Middle East.
[00:06:58]  Israel is the only country in the Middle East that has a growing and safe Christian population, where Christians are participating in public and political and economic and academic life.
[00:07:10]  They are free to choose every profession and they live very good lives, excellent lives, like me and many others do in Israel, contrary to everything else that happens in the Middle East.
[00:07:21]  And I think that is important context.
[00:07:23]  But to summarize and to be very clear, Reprehensible, shouldn't have been done.
[00:07:28]  I hope swift action is taken, and I hope that people can look beyond this, which is clickbaity and very interesting on an internet level, and recognize who the real villains and who the real people in the Middle East who are religiously intolerant are.
[00:07:43]  Those are the fanatic Muslims.
[00:07:45]  They do far worse than bash the head of a statue, as insensitive and horrible as that is.
[00:07:52]  They take the lives of Christians themselves or they persecute them.
[00:07:55]  So let's keep that into perspective as we continue speaking.
[00:08:00]  Yeah, some might view the actions of the IDF soldier to be a pretty extraordinary example of intolerance, actually, particularly of someone else's religious beliefs.
[00:08:09]  But let me come to Gideon Levy because this dovetails with a very disturbing report that Heretz, the publication that you write for, put a report out over the weekend featuring anonymous interviews with former IDF soldiers detailing atrocities they'd witnessed in Gaza.
[00:08:27]  One described serving in Khan Yunus in southern Gaza in December 2023 when a platoon noticed suspicious figures and fired.
[00:08:34]  He said, when we got to a destination, I realized these weren't terrorists.
[00:08:38]  It was an old guy and three boys, maybe teenagers.
[00:08:41]  Not one of them was armed, but their bodies were riddled with bullets.
[00:08:44]  Then the battalion commander came over with his people and one spat on the bodies and yelled, This is what happens to anybody who messes with Israel, you sons of bitches.
[00:08:54]  Another soldier described a shooting at an army outpost in southern Gaza.
[00:08:57]  She said, Suddenly the soldiers on watch noticed five Palestinians crossing the line they weren't allowed to cross, heading to northern Gaza.
[00:09:04]  The battalion commander gave an order to overwhelm them with fire.
[00:09:07]  Even though they hadn't been confirmed as armed or anything like that, a tank started shooting at them with its machine gun, hundreds of bullets.
[00:09:14]  Four of the five Palestinians were killed, and a few hours later, a bulldozer buried them in the sand.
[00:09:20]  The article also describes a sniper who shot people seeking aid and drone operators who killed civilians.
[00:09:26]  And there was a lot more, very, very shocking detail in this investigation.
[00:09:33]  So you put it together, you know, much as people will listen to Jonathan Comrickus and understand context is important.
[00:09:40]  But the combination of that appalling image of this IDF soldier desecrating a statue of Jesus with this report in your publication, it certainly is testing extremely hard, I would argue, this constant refrain we hear that the IDF is the most moral army in the world.
[00:10:02]  I can assure you that Jonathan will say that those were exceptions.
[00:10:07]  You will bring more and more testimonies by soldiers, and you will always hear the Israeli denial.
[00:10:14]  The Israelis self denial.
[00:10:17]  There will always be Jonathans who will explain us that those exceptions don't tell us the full story.
[00:10:25]  They will talk about the context, and I want to talk about the context.
[00:10:29]  The context of the soldier who broke this sculpture, this sculpture of Jesus, and the context of those horrible and horrifying stories that we read last Friday in Haretz is the same context.

=== The Brutality of Occupation (06:27) ===

[00:10:45]  An army who is now preoccupied in a brutal occupation for decades now cannot behave otherwise.
[00:10:54]  You cannot maintain such an occupation for so many years and remain human.
[00:11:01]  It doesn't work.
[00:11:03]  It didn't work in any other occupation in the world.
[00:11:06]  And the best thing that people like Jonathan can do is once to look at the truth and to admit it, because we, first of all, need it.
[00:11:14]  We Israelis.
[00:11:16]  What will make people realize that we grow a monster in front of our eyes?
[00:11:25]  What will make them be convinced that we cross any possible line?
[00:11:32]  You know, Piers, there are six million uprooted people now in the Middle East wandering around from here to there.
[00:11:42]  Part of them lost their homes forever in Gaza, in Lebanon, in Iran.
[00:11:48]  Are we really proud to be a country which creates such a reality for six million human beings?
[00:11:55]  Isn't it the time once to look at the truth and say, yes, we went too far?
[00:12:01]  Our megalomaniac dreams, our belief that only by force and only by military force without any restraints will solve the problems.
[00:12:11]  I don't deny there are problems, there are enemies, there are dangers.
[00:12:16]  But look what we are doing.
[00:12:19]  We are now in all forms around.
[00:12:23]  Using any ceasefire.
[00:12:25]  Thanks God we had Donald Trump to stop these two wars now.
[00:12:30]  Otherwise, we would continue it forever.
[00:12:32]  And the Jonathans would justify.
[00:12:35]  And they will never acknowledge that something went wrong, that something is sick, basically.
[00:12:42]  Not exceptions.
[00:12:43]  I was today in the West Bank.
[00:12:45]  I'm there every week.
[00:12:47]  There is no exceptions anymore.
[00:12:50]  The pogroms of the settlers together with the soldiers, together, planned together, committed together.
[00:12:57]  This is not an exception.
[00:12:58]  This is an army of occupation who cannot operate otherwise but become more and more and more brutal.
[00:13:08]  And here we see their result.
[00:13:10]  And the result you just showed when someone like Rami Manuel, who speaks Hebrew, who spent some years, I think, in Israel, for him it is enough.
[00:13:20]  He says enough is enough.
[00:13:23]  Not me, the self hating Jew.
[00:13:26]  Someone who was a real, genuine friend of Israel says enough is enough.
[00:13:31]  And you will hear more and more of those voices.
[00:13:34]  And the only way to put an end to it is, first of all, to recognize, to realize that something is wrong with us, for God's sake.
[00:13:47]  Well, strong words there.
[00:13:49]  Ishai Fleischer, you know, the Rahm Emanuel comments I thought were very striking.
[00:13:54]  He's a very high profile American Jew, basically saying it's time for America to stop treating Israel.
[00:14:03]  As an exceptional country that is worthy of our billions of dollars of support, they should be treated the same as everybody else.
[00:14:10]  And that comes with the backdrop of this Pew Research Center survey showing that more than 60% of Americans now view Israel unfavorably, up from 53% only last year.
[00:14:22]  Now, I'm old enough to remember when these kind of numbers would be utterly unthinkable 20 years ago, 30 years ago.
[00:14:33]  Loves Israel as a country, loves Israeli people, has many, many Jewish friends around the world from LA to Sydney to London, and has become increasingly critical myself of the Israeli government, this one, and how it's been behaving, and critical of many of the actions of the IDF at the behest of this government.
[00:14:54]  You know, I share this sentiment, which is Israel, this government has to be very careful now that it doesn't drive more and more people to hate Israel, which is clearly what is happening.
[00:15:11]  Are you, as somebody who advises the Israeli government, aware of this potential crisis?
[00:15:17]  Are you concerned about it?
[00:15:19]  Or do you not care?
[00:15:20]  Yeah, so of course we're concerned about Israel's image around the world.
[00:15:24]  There's no question about it.
[00:15:25]  And there is a crisis, there's no doubt about it.
[00:15:27]  It's fueled in part by anti Israel media and by very serious work.
[00:15:33]  By anti Israel elements.
[00:15:34]  They might be in Qatar, they might be in Russia, they might be in Iran, they might even be in China via TikTok.
[00:15:39]  And we've lost market share.
[00:15:41]  There's no question about it.
[00:15:43]  And I could talk about that a lot.
[00:15:44]  But we are certainly concerned about it, no doubt about it.
[00:15:46]  We're concerned about it.
[00:15:47]  But that doesn't mean that we can give up our fight to exist.
[00:15:51]  Jewish people haven't been liked for 2,000 years, and yet we were persecuted.
[00:15:56]  And now we're not so liked, but we're still persecuted, but we can fight back.
[00:15:59]  And just in a few minutes, today is Israel Memorial Day.
[00:16:03]  There'll be a siren here.
[00:16:04]  Remembering all the folks that fell in Israel's wars.
[00:16:07]  But if you ask the average person, the average Israeli who's sitting in cafes, he thinks this war is just.
[00:16:12]  He knows that we've got to push back bad guys.
[00:16:14]  He knows that we have to restore life to the northern communities and to the Gaza envelope communities.
[00:16:20]  We've got to restore that life.
[00:16:21]  We can't allow the jihad to come and crush us.
[00:16:24]  And that's what Iran has been doing.
[00:16:25]  It's been creating a chokehold with its proxies, Hezbollah and Hamas.
[00:16:30]  They plan to murder us, they plan to destroy us.
[00:16:33]  And they did a pretty good job on October 7th.
[00:16:36]  Now we're pushing them back.
[00:16:38]  And the average Israeli is proud of the war that we have fought.
[00:16:43]  And the fact that we're not as liked around the world, that's really a shame.
[00:16:47]  It's too bad.
[00:16:48]  People like Jonathan are doing an amazing job explaining Israel.
[00:16:52]  But with regard to Rahm Emanuel's statements about money to Israeli armament, I agree with Rahm Emanuel.
[00:17:02]  Let's not receive any more handouts.
[00:17:04]  Let's make what really these funds are.
[00:17:07]  Let's rename them, which is joint development funding for munitions.

=== A Damaging Image Emerges (06:08) ===

[00:17:12]  Israel is real world testing, battle theater testing the F-35, and it's generating tons of sales around the world because Israel is actually the best ally the United States has.
[00:17:26]  The fighting ally.
[00:17:27]  Look at the NATO allies.
[00:17:29]  They've been getting money for years for defense.
[00:17:31]  They've done nothing to defend the United States.
[00:17:33]  They're just receiving handouts.
[00:17:35]  Israel has shown itself throughout this process as strong economically, militarily.
[00:17:39]  And I think there's going to be a shift back at the end of this war and people see who's standing in this war.
[00:17:44]  But you know what I would say?
[00:17:45]  Okay, but what I would say to that, Ishai, is that I remember in the Iraq war, one of the most devastating images that came out of that war was the Abu Ghraib image of American troops abusing.
[00:18:00]  Iraqi civilians.
[00:18:01]  And it shocked America, profoundly shocked America, and caused enormous damage actually to America's reputation, to the American military's reputation, and so on.
[00:18:12]  This image that came out overnight of this IDF soldier desecrating a statue of Jesus Christ, I don't think it's as bad as the Abu Ghraibijas, which were truly appalling and involved a lot of people.
[00:18:26]  But as a singular image, you know, when you're trying to persuade a country like America.
[00:18:32]  Which is majority Christian, so has hundreds of millions of Christians living in it.
[00:18:38]  When you're trying to persuade them of the validity of committing the American military to a war that was clearly being driven by Benjamin Netanyahu to promote Israel's interests, when you're trying to do that, it's hard to imagine a more damaging image to come out than the one we saw that came out overnight.
[00:18:58]  Because it'll have hundreds of millions of Americans asking themselves, why are we fighting with these people?
[00:19:06]  Okay, so first thing, that image is not a win, and it should have never been done.
[00:19:11]  And both the army and the foreign ministry has apologized, and rightfully so.
[00:19:15]  So that's the end of that, meaning to say it was a bad thing to do.
[00:19:18]  And you're right, it's definitely a harmful image.
[00:19:20]  But most American Christians still know the Bible, and they know that the jihadists are not the Bible.
[00:19:26]  Don't let Palestine win.
[00:19:28]  It'll take over Israel and destroy the biblical story.
[00:19:31]  Israel is a biblical story coming to life right now the return of the Jewish people, the ingathering, the rebuilding of Jerusalem.
[00:19:37]  It's an amazing story.
[00:19:38]  And most Christians who love Israel. will continue to support Israel.
[00:19:42]  And with regarding to you, you threw in a phrase there, which I can't let it slide.
[00:19:46]  You said, you know, this is a war that Bibi Netanyahu has been pursuing to further Israel's interests.
[00:19:53]  This is a war against the fusion of jihadism and communism, which the regime, the Iranian regime, has been promulgating around the world.
[00:20:03]  They want to destroy you and they want to destroy your London.
[00:20:06]  They want to destroy the United States.
[00:20:07]  They want to destroy Israel.
[00:20:08]  This is a battle for liberty.
[00:20:10]  Liberty.
[00:20:11]  It's a global battle for liberty.
[00:20:12]  It's sad.
[00:20:13]  That a lot of people don't see that.
[00:20:15]  They think the way you kind of phrased it, which is like, this is about Israel's security interests or Israel's interests.
[00:20:20]  No, or maybe it's about oil and money.
[00:20:22]  No, this is about liberty for the world.
[00:20:24]  It's about a fight against a regime.
[00:20:26]  I heard your interview with the Iranian professor before this panel.
[00:20:30]  And you were saying to him, like, hey, you can't speak the truth in your country.
[00:20:35]  You can't say what you want.
[00:20:36]  This is an autocratic regime.
[00:20:38]  And he wouldn't admit that.
[00:20:39]  But that's the truth.
[00:20:40]  And these guys have killed their own people.
[00:20:43]  Look at my colleagues on this panel, right?
[00:20:45]  They'll rip Israel, but they'll not mention jihadism or what Iran has done to its own people.
[00:20:51]  The fact that they tried to kill President Trump, the fact that they murdered people in the streets, the fact that they've attacked Israel for decades.
[00:20:59]  And so this is a just war.
[00:21:02]  Israelis feel that.
[00:21:05]  Bad actions like the destruction of this Christian statue is wrong, and we'll rectify it.
[00:21:12]  But the war is just, and we're going to keep fighting and be successful, and people will be with us.
[00:21:16]  Lovers of the Bible and lovers of Israel will see the truth.
[00:21:21]  Okay, Gersh and Baskin, what's your response to that?
[00:21:26]  My response to that is that the war might be a just war, but it's not the responsibility of the people of Israel or the people of the United States to change the horrible regime of Iran.
[00:21:36]  It is the responsibility of the Iranian people.
[00:21:38]  This is a war which cannot be won, just like the war in Gaza could not be won and the war against Hezbollah could not be won.
[00:21:45]  These are political, diplomatic struggles that need to have political and diplomatic solutions.
[00:21:50]  There is no military solution here.
[00:21:52]  President Trump could declare the end of the war, but the conflicts are still here, and the conflicts will not be resolved through the military.
[00:22:00]  I think also, Pierce, I want to point out that the image of the destruction of the statue of Jesus is horrible, but what's even more horrible is the pictures of the destruction of 38 villages south of the Litani River that the Israeli army has done over the last weeks.
[00:22:17]  The cutting off of more than a million Lebanese people from their homes by bombing all the bridges across the Litani River is a much more dramatic image that needs to be addressed because the people of Lebanon are also against Hezbollah, the majority of them, and there is an opportunity for a process.
[00:22:33]  Of peace between the state of Israel and the government of Israel, but doing the things that Israel did in Lebanon, just like we did in Gaza, and our own military spokespeople, our minister of defense, and other people in our government have said we're going to do in Lebanon what we did in Gaza.
[00:22:49]  We committed war crimes and crimes against humanity in Gaza, and there are two million homeless people in Gaza who are suffering now for five months after the war has ended, and there's no relief there.
[00:22:59]  This is not a Middle East that we can live in or that we should want to live in.
[00:23:03]  There is no a majesty in the military might of Israel when so many people in this region are being killed and homeless and destroyed.
[00:23:13]  This is not a region that we can repair through the might of our military.

=== Remembering Victims Since 1948 (10:10) ===

[00:23:21]  Okay, Jonathan, you're shaking your head there.
[00:23:23]  Why?
[00:23:24]  I'm shaking my head because voices and opinions that are being shared here by two esteemed and very knowledgeable professionals, and I say this very respectfully without any cynicism.
[00:23:39]  I've read Gidon's articles for decades, and I've seen Baskin's work, and we've met, and I know and respect both.
[00:23:48]  But I think the irony, the sad situation, is that you two, You would have been murdered by Hamas on October 7 if they got close to you as well.
[00:23:58]  They would have murdered you, they would have butchered you, they would have done exactly the same things to you with your high morals, with your sympathy for the enemy, with your warm and genuinely caring hearts for the suffering of the other side.
[00:24:13]  They would have done the exact same atrocious acts that they did to 1,300 Israeli soldiers.
[00:24:18]  Jonathan, I don't argue with you.
[00:24:20]  I don't argue with you on that point.
[00:24:23]  Israel had to sit on the clock on the 7th.
[00:24:26]  But we didn't have to wage a war for two years.
[00:24:28]  Gidon, you mentioned my name four times when you spoke.
[00:24:32]  I didn't interrupt, and I gave you the respect that I think you're entitled to.
[00:24:38]  Please don't interrupt.
[00:24:39]  And I just want to say this I think that you are missing the point, and you're still wearing the October 6th spectacles, and you're thinking through the lens of October 6th.
[00:24:52]  You fail to understand the severity of the situation, and you're looking at our situation through what's happening on the other side.
[00:25:00]  The fact that there are people who have been displaced, Arabs, Palestinians, or Lebanese, or whatever, who have been displaced, isn't because of Israel.
[00:25:08]  It is because of the horrible oppressive regimes, the terror organizations that use them and brought destruction upon them.
[00:25:16]  On the 6th of October, not a single Gazan was displaced.
[00:25:20]  But after the 7th of October, they started a chain reaction of events that unfortunately.
[00:25:25]  Led to human suffering.
[00:25:27]  But let us not be confused for even one second.
[00:25:31]  The suffering and the horrible things that have happened in Gaza are first and foremost the responsibility of Hamas.
[00:25:38]  And I will go one step further and I will say this yes, Palestinian civilians have agency and responsibility.
[00:25:46]  You know how many Palestinians have housed and jailed Israeli hostages for a year and a half and for two years.
[00:25:54]  You know how happy the Palestinians were to.
[00:25:57]  Assault and to lynch Israeli civilians as they were brought back as hostages to Gaza.
[00:26:02]  You have seen the parades on Gazan streets and on Lebanese streets and on the streets of Ramallah celebrating the massacre of Jews.
[00:26:11]  And I'll remind both of you if you were in their hands, they would have been as cruel and as subhuman to you as they were to all other Israelis.
[00:26:21]  Your bleeding hearts wouldn't have done you any good.
[00:26:24]  And you remind me of the good people of Nir Oz.
[00:26:27]  And many other places who wanted to go and protest for peace and do demonstrations on the evening of the 7th of October.
[00:26:36]  There was a big demonstration planned.
[00:26:38]  I remember seeing this billboard at the entrance to the.
[00:26:43]  Dining facility near Oz saying that on the evening of the 7th of October, we're all going to Jerusalem.
[00:26:49]  There are buses that are going to be leaving the kibbutz and we're going to demonstrate for peace to end the occupation and end the conflict with the Palestinians.
[00:26:58]  These are the members of a community that were massacred and desecrated by Hamas and by ordinary Arabs, Palestinians who came in from Gaza to murder, to loot, and to desecrate.
[00:27:10]  So let's not forget who it is that we're fighting.
[00:27:13]  Let's not forget the environment that we are forced to be in.
[00:27:16]  And I'll say this to Gidon.
[00:27:18]  I agree with you.
[00:27:19]  There are things that need to be mended also in the IDF.
[00:27:23]  And I welcome oversight of the media.
[00:27:26]  And I think that the expose done by Haaretz should be investigated by the authorities in the IDF.
[00:27:34]  And if things are verified, then there should be consequences, and there should be personal and disciplinary, and there should be relevant consequences for the establishment.
[00:27:48]  Things that are written, if they're true, They are serious and they shouldn't happen, even in a fight against an enemy as brutal and as oppressive and as horrible and cruel as Hamas.
[00:28:01]  But let's be clear here.
[00:28:03]  Let's not think we are fighting Swiss or Danes or Norwegians.
[00:28:07]  We are fighting some of the most cruel and oppressive terror organizations in the world who, if they only could, would kill us all, throw the corpses into the sea, and be happy about it without batting an eye.
[00:28:20]  That is the environment we live in, and that is why the IGF needs to be strong.
[00:28:24]  To defend ourselves against it.
[00:28:26]  I don't know why, when we criticize Israel, Jonathan and people like Jonathan think that we're defending Hamas or Hezbollah or Iran.
[00:28:33]  There's no question of the horrors that Hamas committed on October 7th.
[00:28:37]  But Israel also massacred 76,000 people in Gaza and made 2 million people homeless in Gaza.
[00:28:46]  Let's not forget about that.
[00:28:47]  There's a limit to how long we can hold on to the horrors like that.
[00:28:50]  You're asking, massacred a million?
[00:28:52]  October 7th was horrible.
[00:28:53]  Israel had to respond.
[00:28:56]  To Hamas.
[00:28:57]  But Israel did not have to wage a war for two years in doing that.
[00:29:01]  The whole region wanted Hamas to be disbanded, to be dismembered, to be removed from power.
[00:29:07]  And Israel has allies in the region that it could have worked with to do that.
[00:29:10]  We didn't have to carry on a war for two years, which also killed many of the hostages who were left behind in Gaza because the government of Israel refused to bring them back.
[00:29:19]  I'm the Iron of the Memorial Day that's coming up right now.
[00:29:22]  And I would like to ask your permission.
[00:29:23]  I told your producers that we stand in Israel, we stand in memory of.
[00:29:28]  It's a two minute siren.
[00:29:29]  Not at eight o'clock, not at eight o'clock.
[00:29:31]  It's tomorrow morning.
[00:29:33]  Put aside now those dramatic scenes, really.
[00:29:37]  The standing is tomorrow.
[00:29:39]  Now it's just mentioning that the Memorial Day starts.
[00:29:43]  So, really.
[00:29:44]  Here.
[00:29:45]  The siren is now.
[00:29:47]  Siren is now.
[00:29:50]  We should remember also the Palestinian victims at this moment.
[00:29:55]  No, you shouldn't desecrate this moment with Palestinians.
[00:30:00]  You will not tell me whom to remember and whom not.
[00:30:03]  I'm named by someone who was killed in 1948, by the way.
[00:30:11]  Gideon, can you explain to viewers who may not fully understand what's happening here why the other three are standing and why you've chosen not to?
[00:30:22]  I stand when everyone stands in Israel, namely tomorrow at 11, and I will respect all the Israeli soldiers and others who were killed.
[00:30:32]  And in the same time, I will think also about our victims.
[00:30:36]  Now, in Israel, it's not usual that people stand because.
[00:30:44]  Actually, they do, Gidon, and I don't know where you invent that from, but yes, you stand.
[00:30:48]  The memorial, they start now.
[00:30:50]  But you know, Israel is so preoccupied with deaths and theology of death that any opportunity to victimize ourselves is good enough.
[00:31:04]  But I would like, Piers, with your permission, to relate to one thing that Jonathan said.
[00:31:10]  He said, and this was really.
[00:31:14]  Almost the peak of cynicism that I can think about.
[00:31:17]  He says that until the 6th of October 2023, no Palestinian Gaza was replaced.
[00:31:26]  Have you ever heard a better joke than this?
[00:31:30]  Three quarters of the people in Gaza are sons and grandsons of people who were replaced in 1948 from the villages, from the land.
[00:31:40]  How dare you say that until the 6th of October, nobody was replaced in Gaza?
[00:31:45]  They are all refugees from the Nakba who were part of them kicked away systematically by plans.
[00:31:55]  And today we saw the files and we know it was a policy.
[00:31:59]  They are living in refugee camps ever since then.
[00:32:02]  How dare you say that no one was placed in Gaza?
[00:32:06]  Really?
[00:32:06]  I mean, I'd like to answer that.
[00:32:09]  Just a second, I didn't finish.
[00:32:11]  So, first of all, Gaza is a place of a catastrophe which started in 48, not 23 and not 67.
[00:32:22]  And secondly, really.
[00:32:24]  He sees the birth of the state of Israel, right?
[00:32:26]  He sees the birth of the state of Israel as a catastrophe.
[00:32:29]  He doesn't stand up for the dead soldiers.
[00:32:31]  So, he's not really Israeli.
[00:32:32]  He's outside of it.
[00:32:36]  He called himself a self hating Jew.
[00:32:38]  I guess if the shoe fits, I wouldn't say such a thing, but he said it.
[00:32:42]  And he tells me he doesn't even know when the siren rings.
[00:32:45]  And so he sees the catastrophe in 1948.
[00:32:48]  So he's outside of the picture.
[00:32:49]  And that's why there's not one political party that represents him.
[00:32:52]  Not one inside the Knesset.
[00:32:54]  He does not represent Israelis at all.
[00:32:56]  He's a foreign funded, hater, person who's gone completely off the rails.
[00:33:00]  Okay, we can listen to you.
[00:33:02]  You don't represent anybody.
[00:33:03]  Just a second.
[00:33:04]  I want to answer.
[00:33:04]  Just a second.
[00:33:05]  If I listen to your accent, I understand you were not born here.
[00:33:08]  So don't take me to Israel.
[00:33:11]  My parents are Russian.
[00:33:12]  In your judgment, because you can't take five minutes to look at Wikipedia, that's okay.
[00:33:16]  That's fine.
[00:33:17]  I was born to Russia, refused the parents.
[00:33:22]  There's not one party that represents you.
[00:33:24]  You're out.
[00:33:25]  You're out.
[00:33:25]  You don't represent anybody.
[00:33:28]  Your ideology is no longer listened to.
[00:33:29]  You're finished.
[00:33:30]  Your ideology is finished.

=== Ben Gvir Represents No One (15:29) ===

[00:33:32]  Okay, so you're done.
[00:33:33]  Ishai, I think you're wrong.
[00:33:36]  I think the Arab parties, they represent him.
[00:33:40]  The Arab parties and the Israeli Knesset, they represent Gideon.
[00:33:43]  Okay, let me just jump in here.
[00:33:45]  Let me jump in here, please.
[00:33:47]  Let me jump in here.
[00:33:48]  Let me jump in.
[00:33:50]  Excuse me.
[00:33:51]  Let me jump in, please.
[00:33:53]  Please don't all talk over each other.
[00:33:55]  I want to just ask Ishai this question, which is we hear a lot that Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East, and that that is what the support should be driven by is that realization it's the only democracy that has democratic values and so on.
[00:34:12]  And at the same time, you have a lot of people who believe this whole thing in the Middle East will never get resolved.
[00:34:18]  Until the Palestine issue gets resolved, and what many perceive to be the occupation by Israel of Gaza ends, and there is a two state solution, and so on.
[00:34:29]  And we've heard these arguments, obviously, I've heard them a lot in the last three years, in particular.
[00:34:34]  And when you try and defend Israel on that basis of it being the only democracy, you then have a story like we saw last week, where the Knesset passes a new law where people that The Israeli government, the authorities decide, are Palestinian terrorists can be executed.
[00:34:57]  But the same law doesn't apply to Israelis.
[00:35:00]  And when I saw that, and I saw Ben Gavir with his noose on his lapel of his suit and cracking the champagne open, and what is so clearly a two-tier form of justice that only applies to Palestinians, not to any Israelis who might commit acts of terrorism.
[00:35:21]  What do you say to people who say, well, this is what we're talking about?
[00:35:24]  There's a two tier society in the minds of people like Ben Gavir, where the Palestinians are at a lower level and they can be treated differently to Israelis.
[00:35:36]  That change of the law seemed to me to be an obvious example of what people that criticize Israel are getting at.
[00:35:45]  What do you say to that?
[00:35:47]  Number one, that law is not about Arabs or Palestinians, it's about jihadist terrorists, people who come to kill Israelis.
[00:35:54]  Through an ideology, a Nazi like ideology.
[00:35:56]  It's a law trying to say we should not anymore give these people up in peace deals, the kind that Gershon Baskin negotiated.
[00:36:04]  This is not that kind of thing.
[00:36:06]  From now on, if somebody set out to murder Jews and murder Jews, we're going to get rid of them.
[00:36:10]  And by the way, there were five people who were executed in Texas in 2025.
[00:36:15]  All the Arab countries around us have laws for execution.
[00:36:20]  It's a death penalty, it's normative.
[00:36:23]  Everybody understands it.
[00:36:24]  I really don't understand why you're making it out to be so complex.
[00:36:26]  If somebody comes to terrorize and murder Jews and Israelis, as Jews and Israelis, not if it doesn't apply to Israelis, if it doesn't apply to Israelis, if somebody, if there was a jihadist terrorist who was a Jew and Israeli, he would be absolutely underneath that law.
[00:36:42]  That's just not correct.
[00:36:46]  And he was indeed killed, and he was a terrorist and he was killed.
[00:36:49]  It's very simple, very simple, don't do that.
[00:36:52]  It's all very simple.
[00:36:53]  Here's you're making something that's obvious and simple.
[00:36:59]  If you don't mind for a second, uh, thank you.
[00:37:01]  It's so simple.
[00:37:02]  Somebody who comes to mass murder should be killed and never traded away.
[00:37:06]  That's number one.
[00:37:07]  Number two is I never talk about Israel being a democracy.
[00:37:09]  I believe that Israel has democratic principles, but I don't sell Israel to the world based on the fact that it's a democracy in the Middle East.
[00:37:16]  What if there was another democracy in the Middle East?
[00:37:17]  That's not the thing.
[00:37:18]  This is our ancestral homeland.
[00:37:20]  We have the right to self determination.
[00:37:21]  It's something called birth of nations.
[00:37:23]  We have a national indigeneity that's connected to this land, proven by archaeology, proven by history.
[00:37:30]  Only us?
[00:37:30]  Only us?
[00:37:31]  Not at all.
[00:37:32]  No, see, that's the thing.
[00:37:33]  And by the way, Pierce, I heard your last interview, and I want to say to you the guy says to you something like, Do you believe in ethnic national states?
[00:37:41]  Pierce, there are many ethnic national states with sizable minorities.
[00:37:45]  China is one of them.
[00:37:46]  Japan is another one.
[00:37:47]  All the Arab countries around us.
[00:37:48]  Ireland is one of them.
[00:37:49]  Okay, there are many, many countries in this world that are ethnic national states with sizable minorities.
[00:37:54]  That's called Birth of Nations.
[00:37:56]  That's Wilson's 14 points.
[00:37:58]  That's the idea that ethnic national peoples have a right to their ancestral homelands.
[00:38:02]  It's not such a tricky question.
[00:38:03]  I don't know why you get like.
[00:38:05]  You know, you know, messed up on this.
[00:38:08]  He's talking about supremacy.
[00:38:12]  He's not talking about supremacy.
[00:38:13]  I'm talking about our tiny land.
[00:38:15]  Get on, you'll get a chance.
[00:38:16]  Sorry.
[00:38:17]  You banged me the game.
[00:38:20]  Okay, don't talk over each other.
[00:38:24]  Hang on, hang on, please.
[00:38:25]  Hang on, hang on.
[00:38:26]  Pierce, can I say something?
[00:38:27]  One second, one second.
[00:38:28]  I just want to finish.
[00:38:30]  If you want to know my honest view, if you want to know my honest view, Isha, Ben Giveer, I think is.
[00:38:35]  Just as an appalling an extremist as the enemies you're trying to fight.
[00:38:40]  And I think him and Smodrich are largely responsible.
[00:38:45]  Hang on, let me finish.
[00:38:46]  They are largely responsible for the dwindling support for Israel in America and around the world.
[00:38:52]  And I would argue it is incumbent on decent Israelis to stand up against what is being done in their names by people like Smodrich and Ben Gavir, who I think have made it crystal clear they want to kick all the Palestinians out.
[00:39:06]  Out of Gaza, they want to take back the West Bank, they want to do everything they think they can get away with, and at some point.
[00:39:14]  Decent Israelis have to stand up to these people and stop them doing it in their name.
[00:39:19]  Or I can tell you, these polls about Israel's lack of popularity in America and around the world will get worse.
[00:39:26]  I understand your perspective and it makes sense.
[00:39:28]  And from where you're sitting, I can understand why you see it that way.
[00:39:32]  And I might see it the same way if I was sitting there.
[00:39:34]  But from within Israel, when Israel's under jihadist attack, when we had governments that gave away our land and shrank us and endangered our security in the north, in Gaza, So, people are tired of that.
[00:39:46]  People are tired of jihadist criminality in the Negev and in the north.
[00:39:49]  And they see Benkvir.
[00:39:50]  You may see him as, you know, kind of, you know, he's acting out and he wants to hang bad guys and he's given Israel a bad image.
[00:39:57]  But from within Israel, it's like finally somebody's standing up for me, trying to defend me and make sure that I have my guns to defend myself, not shrinking my army, but growing my army, making sure that I have the right to bear weapons.
[00:40:10]  And if I do shoot at bad guys, that I won't be prosecuted.
[00:40:13]  So, people see Benkvir as defending.
[00:40:16]  So, you said, Israelis should stand up against Ben Gvir Semutrich, but they're going to be voting for them in larger numbers in the next election.
[00:40:22]  So that means that your understanding from where it's not like where Israelis are seeing it.
[00:40:27]  They're seeing these people as defending their rights and making sure that our children are safe.
[00:40:31]  You got to remember, Pierce, we got to send our wives out to go shopping and drive on these roads.
[00:40:38]  We got to make sure that our kids go to school.
[00:40:40]  And if they're going to be blown up, then maybe, you know, I don't care a thousand times if I'm disliked by somebody out in Europe as long as my kid gets home safe.
[00:40:50]  And that's what Ben Gvir is providing.
[00:40:52]  And do you feel the same about Palestinians?
[00:40:56]  Hang on, hang on, please.
[00:40:58]  Hang on.
[00:40:58]  I will come to other guests.
[00:41:00]  But do you feel the same about Palestinian civilians or Lebanese civilians who have been killed in the last two or three years?
[00:41:07]  Do I believe what?
[00:41:08]  That they should have a right to liberty and safety and decency?
[00:41:11]  Absolutely.
[00:41:12]  Do you feel the same?
[00:41:13]  Do you feel the same concerns for Palestinian and Lebanese civilians?
[00:41:18]  No.
[00:41:19]  I cannot feel the same because I'm here to defend my people that have been persecuted for 2,000 years.
[00:41:23]  But I do believe that they have the same intellectually, I think that they have the same rights and the same opportunities and decencies.
[00:41:28]  I think that Israel is going to provide safety for the Druze, for the average Lebanese.
[00:41:34]  Remember, today the Lebanese president said that she believes that there's going to be more safety when Israel is going to be a partner for peace for the average Lebanese people, right?
[00:41:43]  So Israel is a force for liberty against jihadism.
[00:41:47]  Look at the Druze.
[00:41:49]  What flags are they waving in Syria, in Sueda?
[00:41:52]  Israeli flags.
[00:41:54]  Look at the Iranian people saying, You know, Netanyahu, come and liberate me.
[00:41:58]  So, of course, I want to see all these people live in safety.
[00:42:02]  Do you think that a bigger Israel means more people subjugated?
[00:42:05]  No, it means more people liberated and defended against jihadism.
[00:42:09]  Look, look, look, we've gotten rid of, we're getting rid of Hamas, we're getting rid of Hezbollah.
[00:42:15]  Do you think that people are going to benefit or they're going to.
[00:42:18]  Look at the Golan Heights.
[00:42:19]  We asserted sovereignty of the Golan Heights.
[00:42:22]  Look at the people living there.
[00:42:23]  They're living there in freedom and opportunity.
[00:42:26]  Look at the people that we gave away land to in Gaza.
[00:42:29]  All right, let me.
[00:42:30]  Let me bring in the others.
[00:42:31]  Let me bring in Gershon Baskin.
[00:42:33]  Gershon Baskin, let me just ask you, first of all, what was your reaction to that law change in the Knesset last week and the way that Ben Gavir and people around him celebrated it?
[00:42:45]  Well, I think it's horrible.
[00:42:47]  I think it's immoral and I think it's unjust and I don't think we should have a law to execute people.
[00:42:51]  But I want to say something which is overridingly much more important, Pierce, because this whole conflict comes down to a very simple equation that people like Ishai and Jonathan simply ignore.
[00:43:03]  And this is something that the people of Israel need to know and the people of Palestine need to know because Israel will never have security if the Palestinians don't have freedom.
[00:43:12]  And the Palestinians will never have freedom if Israel doesn't have security.
[00:43:16]  That's what this whole conflict comes down to.
[00:43:18]  And if we don't understand that, then we will continue to wage wars without resolving these conflicts because there are political solutions.
[00:43:26]  There is only a two-state solution to this conflict between the river and the sea.
[00:43:30]  There are seven and a half million Jews and seven and a half million Palestinians living on the same ancestral homeland between the river and the sea.
[00:43:39]  It has not failed because it has not been tried.
[00:43:42]  The Oslo peace process never had an endgame.
[00:43:45]  It was negotiations forever.
[00:43:48]  Obligations.
[00:43:49]  Both sides took on commitments and failed to implement them.
[00:43:53]  There were no mechanisms built into the agreements to ensure that we implement our obligations.
[00:43:58]  We violated the agreements.
[00:44:00]  The Palestinians violated agreements.
[00:44:02]  But that doesn't matter.
[00:44:03]  That's history.
[00:44:04]  In looking forward from today onward, we will not have security if the Palestinians don't have freedom.
[00:44:11]  They won't have freedom if we don't have security.
[00:44:13]  We all need to understand that.
[00:44:15]  We have two years and nine months when Donald Trump is in the White House.
[00:44:19]  It is probably the only chance that we will have to have a peace process imposed upon us because the people of Israel and the people of Palestine have elected horrible leaders.
[00:44:29]  Actually, the Palestinians haven't been to the polls since 2006.
[00:44:33]  But we continue to elect leaders who work against our bigger interests.
[00:44:37]  And the Palestinians haven't had enough money to support Gershon since 2006.
[00:44:41]  Gershon, let me ask you on that point.
[00:44:44]  Gershon, on that point, looking at the prediction markets, Polymarket has been asking who will be the next Prime Minister of Israel.
[00:44:51]  After the next election, Netanyahu is in the lead on 41%, followed by a regular guest on Uncensored, Naftali Bennett, on 29%.
[00:45:00]  Ben Guevara is at seventh place here, and there's nearly five million dollars in that market, so there's a lot of predicting going on it.
[00:45:08]  The next election must be held by October 27th this year.
[00:45:12]  Who would you like to see win that election?
[00:45:16]  Well, none of the people who are leading candidates for the position of prime minister are the people that I would like to see most.
[00:45:22]  But out of all the potentials, it's probably Gadi Eisenkopf, the former chief of staff of the Israeli army.
[00:45:29]  But I don't really think that's the issue.
[00:45:31]  I mean, if Netanyahu is elected, then in my mind, Israel is beyond repair and we're in big trouble.
[00:45:36]  Beyond repair, we're in big trouble.
[00:45:38]  So I think we need to have someone else elected.
[00:45:40]  And we need to appeal to President Trump, who claims to be the president who will make peace, that he will in fact do that and impose a solution on Israel and Palestine, because we won't get there without it.
[00:45:51]  Piers, can I have a word?
[00:45:53]  Okay, final word to Jonathan Conricus.
[00:45:55]  Yeah, I think, you know, what Baskin has said is, I think, a misrepresentation of the current situation.
[00:46:07]  I, too, want peace.
[00:46:09]  I voted for political parties that have had peace as a central part of their political map forward.
[00:46:18]  And sadly, what I've seen of the Oslo Agreement, and when I listen to my neighbors, my Arab neighbors, They are not talking about peace.
[00:46:28]  And I think we are doing ourselves a disservice.
[00:46:31]  And a lot of people around the world definitely don't understand the situation that we're in when they think that the other side is interested in a two state solution.
[00:46:41]  I would want separation from the Palestinians, and I would want you to ask Ishai about how we feel about their rights and their liberties.
[00:46:50]  Yeah, they're human beings.
[00:46:51]  They want happiness and self definition and the pursuit of success.
[00:46:58]  That would be great for them.
[00:47:00]  But what they are doing is prioritizing our destruction over their own future.
[00:47:06]  And you can see that so many times in history.
[00:47:09]  That's true.
[00:47:09]  When we're at the fork in the road and when they're given options to go for moderation, to say yes to Israeli proposals to end the conflict, four such have been done by different Israeli prime ministers, very generous ones with almost maximalist land swaps, which today I'm happy that they didn't approve.
[00:47:29]  But they could have done, and they would have had 98% of Judea and Samaria, a capital in eastern Jerusalem, and they would have been able to import a lot of people that Gidon and other people call refugees, who are no more refugees than my grandparents who came from Poland and from Morocco.
[00:47:45]  There are no longer refugees.
[00:47:47]  It's a lie, it's a hoax to call the people of Gaza refugees.
[00:47:51]  You're a refugee for a few months, for a year, then you cease to be a refugee.
[00:47:56]  You become a citizen of wherever you are.
[00:47:59]  The only people that defy that global logic.
[00:48:01]  Are the so called Palestinians because they're kept in a permanent status of refugeedom by people who don't care for their future, people who use them as a tool mostly against Israel?
[00:48:13]  So, to summarize, I would say this I would love for us to have peace, I would love for there to be peace in the region.
[00:48:19]  Peace will come only when our neighbors come to accept the fact that the Jews are here, that this is the homeland, foremost the homeland of the Jewish people.
[00:48:30]  Other people have rights, but there cannot be any legal entity.
[00:48:35]  That threatens the very existence of Israel and that Israel is here to stay for the coming generations.
[00:48:41]  When our neighbors understand and agree to that, then there's a chance for peace.
[00:48:46]  Until then, sadly, we will have to fight, defend ourselves, deter our enemies, extend the hand for peace as we're doing now with Lebanon, while defending ourselves against ruthless jihadi terrorists.
[00:49:00]  Okay, we're going to leave it there.

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