The consequences of the Epstein Files contrast starkly in the UK and US. In Britain, the scandal threatens to end the career of Keir Starmer, who decided to make Peter Mandelson the UK ambassador to the United States - a man who chose to remain friends with Jeffrey Epstein and now faces a criminal investigation for leaking government secrets to him. As well as this, the Prince and Princess of Wales have finally spoken out again the former Prince Andrew Meanwhile, in America, multiple VIP men have been humbled and embarrassed by the latest tranche of documents, but none are being prosecuted or have even lost their jobs. Piers Morgan discusses all the latest fallout with California congressman Rep. Ro Khanna before moving into debate with Andrew confidante Lady Victoria Hervey, Epstein victims attorney Spencer Kuvin, royal author and commentator Katie Nicholl and commentator and an editor at The New Statesman, Oli Dugmore. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
Transcriber: nvidia/parakeet-tdt-0.6b-v2, sat-12l-sm, and large-v3-turbo
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Why The Epstein Files Must Be Released00:08:26
I'm going to give you the opportunity to now apologize for saying that it was a fake.
Are you kidding?
Come on, Piers.
You know me better than that.
What are you referring to?
I'm referring to you being in the Epstein files, of course.
They might have been girls that were abused.
That is not the wording.
But it was not a sex trafficking thing.
I just want to get the right information out there because there's a lot of disinformation.
Yeah, and most of it appears to be coming out of your mouth.
What is your message to Lady Victoria Harvey?
Why are they so immature, reckless, self-entitled, where you've got this lady talking about being part of a club as opposed to a public-spirited moral leadership that Britain and America have provided to the world?
With the greatest respect, I think you talk utter shit.
You don't give a damn about these girls.
Many Americans of all political persuasions are rightly furious that the Epstein files have not so far led to serious consequences.
Multiple VIP men have been humbled and embarrassed by the distranch of documents.
None have lost their jobs.
Nobody's being prosecuted.
Life goes on.
But not in the UK.
The scandal may end the career of the Prime Minister, Sakir Starmer, who's clinging to power by a thread.
Top aides are quitting to save Starmer's skin, but it was his decision to make Peter Mandelson, the UK ambassador to the US.
It was his decision to honor a man who chose to remain friends with a paedophile and faces a criminal investigation for leaking government secrets to him.
Now, Andrew Mountbatten, Windsor, the disgraced former Duke, is accused of leaking trade secrets to Epstein II two years after his conviction.
This following new claims that Andrew had sex with a woman sent by Epstein on royal property.
The Prince and Princess of Wales have bellegedly responded.
They are deeply concerned by the continuing revelations, the spokesman said.
Their thoughts remain focused on the victims.
Well, frankly speaking, given the enormous scale of the damage to the Royal Brand, it will take a lot more than that.
We'll debate all of the letters fall out in a moment.
We'll begin with somebody who's done more than most to secure the release of the files now rocking the British and American establishment.
California Congressman Rokana joins me.
Congressman, thank you very much indeed for coming back to Onsenson.
Thank you for having me back on.
You've been sitting through Ghillain Maxwell's deposition, where she, I understand, refused to answer a single question about any of this, pleading the Fifth Amendment, said she would only talk in exchange for clemency.
So tell me what you've just been witnessing.
Well, it was deeply disturbing because a few months ago, as you know, she talked to Todd Blanch for nine hours and was perfectly willing to answer his questions.
Today, she said that she knows who the other rich and powerful men are who raped underage girls.
She said that clearly.
But she would only tell us who those are if she got full clemency.
So she needs to be sent back to a maximum security prison.
You don't get to ask for clemency to tell the truth in this country.
And she was responsible for abusing and facilitating the abuse of a lot of these survivors.
There is a sort of weird scenario going on here where a lot of powerful men in the UK are being brought down by this scandal, but we're not seeing the same thing happening in the United States, even though there are many, many more high-profile Americans in these files.
Why is that?
The British have taken this much more seriously, and your country is handling it better.
I mean, I am embarrassed that we have not seen the same kind of accountability that we're seeing in Britain.
There, you've had Mendelssohn called out.
I mean, as you pointed out in your monologue, it may topple Starmer's government.
And by the way, I'm on the Democratic left.
I've met the prime minister.
I cheered when he won, but I've always said that the consequences have to be the consequences and people need to be held accountable.
What Mendelssohn did is horrific in terms of the allegations that he gave sensitive information about when Britain was going to be buying Euros to Epstein.
And so I would like to see that kind of accountability in the United States.
There are many people who've done worse things, frankly, than some of the allegations in Britain.
And we could learn a thing or two about how seriously you're taking the scandal.
We've had a release last Friday of 3 million documents in these files, but we're told there are at least that many again, which will not be released into the public domain.
How does that square with Donald Trump's campaign pledge to be totally transparent and release all the files?
It doesn't square with it.
And Trump, one thing he has is a populist instinct.
He understands public opinion.
It is baffling to me why he has such a blind spot on this issue.
It's the one issue that has eroded his base of MA supporters.
It's the one issue he's getting protested about.
And I would just say to him, release all the files.
Now, Thomas Massey and I are going to see some of the unredacted files.
And you've seen the same things I have.
There are emails where someone says, I enjoyed the night with a naughty girl, or I enjoyed a 10-year-old Brazilian.
And the name of the person who sent that email is blacked out.
We're going to get to see those files.
We're going to see why, if any reason, there is that redaction.
And we're going to petition a court to get them unredacted if the DOJ does not come clean.
And what about the other 3 million plus files which have not been released?
Are you going to be pushing hard for those all to be released?
Absolutely.
I mean, look, they're limiting Massey and my time to two hours.
So we're going to focus on some of the places where they've had the redactions.
But we've already seen the explosiveness of the documents they have released.
I've been told by survivors, lawyers, that what they haven't released, some of the 302 documents that have been heavily redacted, some of the other emails are even worse, that that's nuclear.
Now, they called Massey and me saying we're indulging in conspiracy theories when we started this.
I think that has been put to rest.
Even the documents they've released has implicated so many people and showed at best terrible moral judgment and at worst criminal behavior.
Now there is mounting public pressure that the rest be released.
I do think he'll be released, but it's going to be drip by drip.
And my plea to President Trump is it's in his own political interest to get this out there.
That's the only way we're going to get accountability.
And that's the only way we're going to be able to move on is once there's accountability.
Right.
And without that, there will be raging conspiracy theories.
One of my panel members, who we'll be talking to in a moment, Lady Victoria Harvey, suggested that you're a loser if you're not in the Epstein files.
And you responded to this by saying, this is why I coined the phrase Epstein class.
This is why the Epstein class needs to go.
These people belonging to a club of the rich and powerful over speaking out against paedophiles and the rape of working class girls.
You know, what is your message to Lady Victoria Harvey?
Not least because last time she came on my show, she tried to put up this very aggressive defense of then Prince Andrew and claimed that the now infamous picture of his arm around Virginia Duffray was a fake, which has now been obviously contradicted by Ghillane Maxwell in the files in an email where she confirms the veracity of the photograph.
I never knew who she was until I saw that statement and I was appalled.
I hope she will, when she comes on your show, retract it and reflect on what she's saying.
First of all, has she met any of these survivors?
They've been in my office in tears to talk about, to be so callous as to say you're a loser if you weren't part of this network is an insult to the survivors.
But the second thing I'd ask her to reflect is on the decline of British leadership.
I mean, it's a decline under American leadership.
I mean, you had Britain produced Churchill.
You had a country that produced Margaret Thatcher.
Royal Family Accountability Under Pressure00:06:23
They would not be caught dead corresponding with a pedophile or making callous jokes or saying they should be part of a club.
How has there been such a decline of the elite in America and Britain?
How are they so immature, reckless, self-entitled, where you've got this lady talking about being part of a club as opposed to a public-spirited moral leadership that Britain and America have provided to the world?
That's the bigger question with the exposure of these files.
There's some breaking news as I'm talking to you.
I actually posted on X this morning after I saw the statement from the Prince and Princess of Wales, which I thought was a bit wishy-washy and kind of meaningless, just saying they're concerned about the new revelations.
Well, we're all concerned about it, but it actually flies right to the heart of the monarchy when you've got Andrew Mountbatten Windsor, then Prince Andrew, seemingly using Buckingham Palace as a kind of sex lair to bring anyone he fancied from Epstein and to do with what he wanted.
And, you know, to me, that's a very serious set of circumstances, which the royal family just haven't properly addressed.
He's been removed from his grace and favor luxury home, royal home, but he's going to get another one, just a bit smaller.
And I said, you know, the only way that this can get, to me, satisfactorily resolved from the royal family's point of view to minimize what could be an existential threat to the monarchy itself if this carries on is for the king, King Charles, to order his brother to cooperate with the Metropolitan Police in the UK or any other police authority here about what was happening here and the allegations against him under oath and to do the same with the investigating authorities in the United States,
where he obviously still faces very serious charges.
And as we've been talking, Buckingham Palace now says it stands ready to help Thames Valley Police, which is close to London, in its assessment of allegations against Andrew Mountbatten Windsor.
Quote, the king has made clear in words and through unprecedented actions his profound concern at allegations which continue to come to light in respect of Mr. Mountbatten Windsor's conduct, the palace said.
While the specific claims in question are for Mr. Mountbatten Windsor to address, if we are approached by Thames Valley Police, we stand ready to support them, as you would expect.
As was previously stated, their Majesty's thoughts and sympathies have been and remain with the victims of any and all forms of abuse.
So, I mean, this is pretty, I've got to say, I've dealt with the royal family for 40 years.
This is pretty unprecedented, what we're now witnessing here.
I think they're being pushed into saying these things and to doing these things because it's so alien really to how they've operated in the past.
But it shows the magnitude of the crisis and I think a growing awareness at the palace that this is not going away.
The king was out on a walkabout today.
He got heckled about Andrew.
He was the other day heckled about it.
Prince Edward was over in the Middle East.
He got asked about it.
They're all going to get asked about this.
You know, Prince and Princess of Wales are in Saudi Arabia today.
It will come up, I'm sure, if there's a press conference.
So they can't escape this.
And it seems to me, unless Andrew does actively cooperate with the authorities in the UK and US, then this gets ever more damaging for the royal family.
Well, I completely agree with you.
Glad that they've taken this constructive step.
But for most people, if you have allegations of raping underage girls, if you have allegations of giving sensitive information from the UK government to Jeffrey Epstein, just being stripped of being a prince is not enough.
And I don't know the details whether this new house he's going to have is on the public dime or his own money.
But if it's on the public dime, that seems totally unreasonable.
And so he needs to face the law just like anyone else.
This is the fundamental issue in this entire Epstein saga: that they're a group of people who think they're above the law.
And it's fueled in populist anger in America and in the Western world that these groups of people who think they don't have to abide by the law are getting away with things while ordinary Americans, ordinary people in Britain are suffering.
And the royal family, if they don't address that head on, could be swept out with this kind of legitimate anger at an elite class.
So I believe, look, it's obviously for the king and queen to decide, but I would answer the press's questions.
I do a press conference.
It's a different time.
You can't have the queen visiting somewhere and then be annoyed because she's being asked a question.
I mean, we live in a very democratic age, in a social media age.
They need to be transparent.
Yeah, I agree.
And finally, on Sakir Starmer, the British Prime Minister, his revelation last week, his admission that when he appointed Peter Mandelson as the new UK ambassador to the United States, that he had been told the prime minister that Mandelson had continued his relationship with Epstein after Epstein's conviction for being a paedophile.
Do you think that fact alone should be enough to force his resignation?
I'll leave that for the British people, but I think that was a serious moral misjudgment.
And I do think that the reaction of the British people is legitimate.
I wish we had that kind of accountability here in the United States, where there are cabinet members who are now revealed as having extensive relationships with Epstein.
But the other irony is of all the places you would appoint Mendelssohn, why would you appoint him to the United States as ambassador, knowing the relationship that he had with Epstein?
So it seems a gross error of judgment.
Like I said, I liked Prime Minister Stormer.
I've known him before he became Prime Minister.
But when Massey and I pursued this, we said whether it's the left or the right, there have to be consequences and there has to be elite accountability.
So he needs to face the consequences.
Yeah, 100% agree with you.
Rochana, thank you very much indeed for joining me.
Thank you.
Appreciate it.
Elite Consequences And Draft Statements00:09:39
Welcome to Spillertruppen.
Thank you very much.
Thank you very much.
Where are you now?
Now I'm on the way in front of the TV.
Now we're in Long Toy, which is completely in Bangkok.
I'm in Norwich.
I think it's two minutes of a tour to Houston.
With the stadium right here.
You can now listen to Spillertruppen only on Podimo.
A new episode every Thursday.
My name is Kasper Stenbach, and this is the podcast, where the players talk.
Well, I'm joined now by my panel, the confidant of the former Prince Angel, Lady Victoria Harvey, the royal author Katie Nicholl, attorney Spencer Coven, who represented several Epstein victims, including the original victim who led to Epstein's conviction.
and the commentator and editor at the New Statesman, Ollie Dougmore.
Welcome to all of you.
Well, Lady Victoria Harvey, let me start with you, because last time you were on uncensored, we discussed the infamous picture of Andrew Mountbatten Windsor and Virginia Dufrey.
And you said this.
Andrew has never carried a wallet in his life.
He's got a wallet in his back pocket.
There's many pictures of Jeffrey Epstein with the same trousers.
Jeffrey did carry a big wallet in his back pocket.
So you're saying in the picture was faked?
There's nothing real about this image, Piers.
Well, what is the motive?
Because I want this guy to stay alive.
But who is the motive?
What is the motive of the person who, in your view, falsified this photograph?
Oh, well, they were taking down the royal family, weren't they?
Who were?
Maybe Israel.
Who knows?
So we now know from the document dumped last Friday that Ghillaine Maxwell sent an email to Epstein that in 2001, I was in London when Virginia Dufray met a number of friends of mine, including Prince Andrew.
A photograph was taken as I imagined she wanted to show it to friends and family.
That is clear confirmation that Ghillaine Maxwell, who's in that picture, knew that picture had been taken and it was genuine.
So I'm going to give you the opportunity to now apologize for saying that it was a fake.
Because clearly you were wrong.
Are you kidding?
Come on, Piers.
You know me better than that.
So I spoke to Ghillenne Maxwell's lawyer about that.
It was a draft statement that had actually been written by a PR person.
It was not ever approved by Ghillen.
Hence, it was never used for anything.
And it just sat there as a draft.
And it ended up...
Look, everything ended up in the Epstein files, all right?
Like, I'm even in your file.
You're in what, sorry?
I'm in your Epstein file.
What Epstein file?
Well, you're in it, obviously, because you're not a loser.
Well, we're going to come to that ridiculous statement in a moment, but what are you referring to?
I'm referring to you being in the Epstein files, of course.
For what?
Just, you know, being at a drinks party, possibly with Ghillen, just talking about you.
You must have read it, surely.
Yeah, that's not in the files.
It is in the files.
No, that was from her deposition.
No, it's not.
I promise you.
No, it's not it.
It's not, it's not, it's not in the files.
I saw it in the file.
I've read your whole file.
You can literally search all three million documents in people's names.
I'm not in it.
The picture you're talking about, the picture...
You're in the Epstein film.
Do it after the show.
Do it after the show.
The only connection I've ever had to either of them, as I've said many times, is I met Ghillaine Maxwell for five minutes at a book launch in New York.
She was then asked about that in her lengthy testimony and she said under oath that that was the only time she ever met me.
I never met Epstein or anything else.
But just Google yourself in that government website.
You come up quite a lot.
No, you're talking about other people talking about me.
We're talking about the Epstein file dump that came on Friday.
But exactly.
So you've come to my very point when I said if you're not mentioned, you're a loser, because people that are mentioned in it might not have even had affiliation with Jeffrey Epstein.
They might never have met him.
But the fact is they were mentioned possibly in an email that was sent to him.
Hence, they ended up in the Epstein files.
Do you get it now?
Well, I don't quite get the point you're making, but in relation to being a loser, a loser if you're not in them, do you understand how crass and stupid that looks to people when you say that?
It basically was meant as if you are a mover, if you were like a mover and a shaker in the like high echelons of society internationally, you were in those files.
Hence, everybody from Ben Affleck to Matt Damon to Elson John to Meryl Street, everybody is in those files.
Let me bring in Spencer Coovan.
Spencer, you represented the very first victim of Jeffrey Epstein, who was this 14-year-old girl who was abused by him.
And that led to the conviction for him being a paedophile.
Two things about this, because I've seen you talking about this.
I wanted to get you on the show to discuss this further.
One is it strikes me if the authorities, if the legal authorities had done their job properly, then Epstein could have been stopped in his tracks by what happened in that case.
And they didn't.
He got away with it.
He was treated with unbelievable kid gloves and as a result, was able to continue his nefarious activities for many more years.
And secondly, I saw you say that the categorization of your client as a prostitute, given she was 14 years old, again, you felt was grotesquely wrong.
So just explain that and also maybe elaborate on my point about he could have been stopped then.
Yes, and thank you for giving me the opportunity.
These young girls, as you point out, were 14 years old.
Another was 15 and another I represented was 16.
They were all within that age range.
They had never, ever done anything like this before until they were enticed to go to Epstein's mansion here in Palm Beach.
They certainly were not anything close to being a prostitute, which is why it was so insulting to them and their families at the time that the government would accept a plea such as that.
This was sex trafficking point blank, and they let him go.
And as a result of letting him go, he continued his friendships, as we now see, with very high profile individuals, including royalty.
For example, the time that Andrew came to his home in Manhattan.
Yeah, and why do you think it was?
I mean, there's been lots of speculation about this, but why was it that he was able to do such a cozy deal at the time of his conviction?
Well, we're now seeing close relationships that he had within the government itself.
He had close relationships with Bill Barr, who later became Attorney General.
He had close relationships with people within the institutions of government in DC, very close relationships with top lawyers throughout the United States.
I think that the federal government, frankly, just chickened out.
I think they were afraid of the defense that would be put on in defense of Jeffrey Epstein.
And in order to just quickly put this to bed, they were thinking that they would silence this, put it to bed, give him a small conviction, put him in jail, and that would be the end of it.
And unfortunately, or fortunately, it wasn't the end of it.
And now we see the entire conspiracy that went on to cover this up and the people that were involved with him, regardless of those convictions.
We've just had a dump of 3 million documents from these files, but we're told there are at least as many again that are not going to be released.
How on earth does that square with transparency?
I asked Rogano earlier, the congressman, he said it doesn't.
But I mean, what's going to happen about the other 3 million files?
That's a good question.
And I've had conversations with the Congressional Committee.
I've been interviewed by them as part of their investigation.
And the one thing that I suggested to them that this law that they passed is missing is an enforcement mechanism.
It's left up to Congress to enforce this.
What I suggested is that they amend the statute to allow for a private right or private cause of action by the victims and their council so that we could then bring action against the federal government for their failures to redact in names of some of my clients, which they did.
And for the over-redaction of names, which we want released.
And finally, for the full release of documents, which, by the way, I've been clamoring for the release of all the security tape video that they have from inside Epstein's homes, which has not been released yet.
How big a monster are we talking when it comes to Jeffrey Epstein?
I mean, the more and more we read, the worse it gets.
He looks to me to be ultimately one of the worst sexual predators in modern history.
I can tell you, Piers, I met the man on three separate occasions.
He is what I would personify as the devil incarnate.
He is a man who had absolutely no remorse about anything he had done.
He attempted to bring explanation after explanation to validate or somehow make normal what he was doing to children.
And even to the day when we settled cases with his counsel and him present, he was just adamant about his denial about anything wrong, even though he would admit that he had had sex with these children.
And it was just horrific.
Cody Nicoll, welcome back to Uncensored.
You know, I was saying a few days ago that Britain is being hit simultaneously with the biggest royal scandal I can ever remember in my lifetime and the biggest political scandal I can remember in my lifetime.
To me, way worse than even the Perfumo scandal back in the 60s.
It feels like for the royal family, this is a very perilous time.
And you're beginning to see them speaking out, but in a way that is very royal-like, kind of how they've always done things.
And I'm not sure it's going to work.
You know, I saw the Prince and Princess of Wales' statement.
It seemed very bland, very wishy-washy, very meaningless, actually.
You know, you saw Edward saying a couple of lines.
You've seen the king now tonight coming out with stronger language.
But ultimately, until Andrew is actually under oath in front of investigators here in the United States, I don't see how this doesn't get a lot worse for the royal family.
Well, Piers, I think they're almost in an impossible situation.
I was speaking to a former palisade actually last week for a piece I was writing for Vanity Fair, and they said that this was the worst constitutional crisis they felt since the abdication.
And when you consider the 90s, obviously, you know, you were newspaper editor at that time.
You know, exactly the sort of stories that were going on.
The death of Diana almost threatened to unhinge the monarchy at one point.
It's not like this is a monarchy that has sailed through the decades seamlessly.
There have been many challenges, many turbulent times.
I mean, don't just go that far back to Harry and Megan leaving when we were wondering if that might be a constitutional crisis just because of how it left the state of the monarchy.
But this, as you say, is in a different sphere altogether.
And when you comment on how the royals are reacting, I think we have to cut them a bit of slap because they are in uncharted territory as well.
I mean, unless Andrew gets up and is questioned, and we understand now to Buckingham Palace that the palace will be willing to cooperate with the Met Police, Thames Valley Police, if they have to.
But unless Andrew is up there testifying and answering those questions, is it for the king to apologise on his behalf?
I don't personally think it is.
I think the king's done everything he can do.
He's stripped Andrew of his titles.
He's pushed him out of Royal Lodge.
He's keeping him contained on the Sandringham estate.
I don't feel that it's the king's position to apologise.
I know there have been protests.
I know he's been heckled.
I think he's in a very, very difficult situation.
But this is uncharted territory.
I think the one person perhaps who could have answered some questions is indeed the late Queen.
And of course, she's not here to do that.
But she was the one that sanctioned that 12 million payoffs to Virginia Geofray.
Let's not forget a woman who Andrew can't remember meeting.
And yet there was a rumoured estimated, we don't know for that, but £12 million settlement.
So questions being asked just about how much the late Queen Elizabeth II knew about what was actually going on.
But until we hear it from Andrew, it's speculation.
Yeah, Ollie Dugmore, on the politics side, you know, as we're talking, Sakir Starmer, I would say, is more likely than not to be out of Downing Street imminently, given the way it's all playing out, which would be an extraordinary part of this scandal.
We've seen Mandelson obviously lose his job and now facing a police investigation.
There may be others that follow.
We don't know.
We're going to get a release of all the contacts between British government members and Mandelson when he was over in Washington.
And who knows what that's going to reveal?
Because the bottom line is from the moment Keir Starmer admitted last week that he was told before he appointed Mandelson that Mandelson had continued his relationship with Epstein after the conviction, you know, all bets are off.
Absolutely, Phys.
I think this is a case of when, not if.
And at the beginning of the year, when we were talking about, oh, you know, the May local elections, this could prove to be a really tricky time for Keir Starmer.
Well, I think he's sat there now wishing he could make it to the May elections.
I mean, there's peril all the way through, not least the by-election in Gawton and Denton in Manchester, a Labour stronghold that very seriously under threat from both reform and the Greens.
I'm hearing from party aides in both those parties.
The polling is showing it's a three-way race.
It's an extraordinary thing to be able to say in a greater city region where Andy Burnham virtually won.
I think every single ward bar won in the last election in the greater Manchester area.
Look, Morgan McSweeney, his chief of staff, has resigned.
I thought the wording of that statement was very telling.
It spoke about the advice that he gave.
And at the heart of this, advisors advise and ministers decide.
At the end of the day, it was Keir Starmer's decision.
He was persuaded by his chief of staff.
If you read the New Statesman last week, our cover story by our political editor, Alva Ray, covered this in some detail.
Starmer was initially favouring George Osborne to be appointed to ambassador in Washington and instead opted for Mandelson on McSweeney's advice.
Now, he took that advice and therefore, yes, okay, his chief of staff has gone, but I don't think the scandal is going to stop there.
Lady Victoria Harvey, I mean, you've been very steadfast in your support of Andrew Mountain Batten Windsor, but given what you've now seen.
Keir Starmer Persuaded By Chief Of Staff00:12:42
That's quite a long name, hasn't he?
Well, you know, he had all his titles stripped quite rightly.
But he's still got a lot of money.
Right, but given what you've now seen about what he was up to.
So let me just give you an update.
Let me just give you an update.
So as of within the last 24 hours, the FBI did a statement and they said with all the information that they have seen, all the millions of files, everything, they have come to a conclusion that this was not a sex trafficking ring.
Where's that statement?
Let that sink in.
It's all over.
I sent the link to your producers this morning.
So...
No, no one's been able to find that statement.
So you're talking about a statement.
Nobody has seen this statement.
The FBI has said, and I will send it to your people afterwards, that it was not.
So exactly what I've told you in 2019.
I said, peers, these girls were not trafficked.
And that word was too strong a word.
Anyway, the FBI have recently said this in the last 24 hours.
It was not a sex trafficking operation.
Yes.
Well, let me bring Spencer Coovin.
Let me bring Spencer Coovin back on.
Spencer Coovin, apparently, none of this involves sex trafficking, Spencer Coovin.
They might have been girls that were abused.
That is not the wording, but it was not a sex trafficking.
So I just want to get the right information out there because there's a lot of disinformation.
Well, yeah, and most of it appears to be coming out of your mouth.
I think at the end of the day, we need to remember.
You're making money from this.
We have nearly hundreds of young girls under the age of 18 that were sexually abused and trafficked.
Because you are making money.
Jeffrey Epstein.
By Jeffrey Epstein and Gillen Maxwell.
Don't forget that we have one woman who's working for free.
Convicted.
How much money did you make from this?
Convicted of sex trafficking.
And at the end of the day, I think the problem we have is that we're giving voice to people like Miss Harvey.
I'm not Miss Harvey.
I'm Lady Victoria, actually.
Okay, Miss Harvey.
For 20 years, people have been fighting.
These young girls have been fighting to be heard, fighting to make sure the world knows what happened to them.
So how much money have you made from this?
And finally, finally, the U.S. government is starting to release the documents that verify what these girls have been saying all along.
The FBI just verified it's not a sex trafficking ring.
Okay.
Okay.
Is this the same FBI that apparently is hiding additional documents and deleting names that are in those documents?
Is it the same FBI that's not?
That's what's happening.
It's out there.
Even ABC News, which is, you know, not really reliable.
Victoria, here's what I get.
Victoria, here's what I just find completely baffling.
Even with this university, they also spoke about the...
Hang on, let me have the two lies.
Let me finish, please.
Let me finish, please.
Let me finish.
Even notwithstanding a 3 million document dump of files, which reveal the most horrific stuff going on with Epstein, with Ghillane Maxwell, with others.
You still just want to pretend there's nothing to see here.
Why?
I'm not pretending there's nothing to see here.
I'm just stating what the FBI have come to the conclusion.
It was not a sex trafficking ring.
Well, nobody's seen that.
Which means, which means Ghillen is in jail for not trafficking to anybody.
So she should be released right away.
She was found guilty.
But there were no clients.
There's just no clientless peers.
You're not understanding it.
I like you.
You're not understanding.
She was convicted and sent to prison.
I know.
It's very frustrating for people like you because it's just like the media has built it up into this huge thing.
Yes, obviously, Jeffrey Epstein was a spy.
Like, I totally, that is true.
Like, he was working for various different intelligences.
We know that.
But the fact is, he was not lending out the girls to his friends.
He was.
Really?
We know that he was.
Everybody knows he actually is.
I don't know what your name is, the lawyer, but you obviously made a lot of money from this.
Can you tell us what you made from this?
Can you tell us what you've done with Mr. Andrew?
Can you tell us about your relationship with him and what he's talking about?
I haven't seen him remain.
I'm defending him because I know he is not guilty.
Ah, and you know this because he told you to talk to you about it?
I just, I just, I know.
You know, I've looked, I've been very good so far.
I was right about COVID.
I was right about the vaccines.
I was right about BLM.
I'm right about this.
All right, Casey Nicol, let me bring you back in here.
What is so frabrial this now, this scandal?
And the thing for the royals that's so difficult, they don't know what's left in these files to come out.
They don't know how bad this could still get, even from this terrible position they're now in.
It could get a lot worse.
Almost every day brings new revelations.
The revelation this morning that Andrew was leaking his secret information as a trade envoy for Britain to a convicted paedophile.
That alone is unbelievably damaging to the reputation of the royal family.
It's an act of treachery.
Well, it is.
And, you know, we've all seen how it's ended up for Mandelson.
And I'm afraid that Andrew is not exempt for that.
These are, as you say, new allegations.
They've only surfaced today.
As we know from the statement, which I think is broken while we've been on air out of Buckingham Palace, we know that the King, the Queen, all members of the Royal Family will cooperate with Thames Valley Police as and when they need to.
The Royal Family, as I said earlier, are in a very, very difficult position.
I think almost a position like the rest of us.
They have to wait and see what's going to happen next.
Is Andrew going to go over to the States and voluntarily testify?
Of course he's not.
If the Met open up this investigation, then he will have to, he will have to answer questions.
And I think most people thought that that's exactly what he needs to do.
But perhaps first, you know, the statement that needs to come is from Andrew Mountbass in Windsor from Sandringham expressing some empathy for those victims.
There is such a gaping hole in all of this and that he's left that to other members of his family to do.
He should absolutely be doing that.
And I'm quite astonished by some of the things that Lady Victoria has said on air.
I have to say, I think all of our feelings and empathy need to be with those girls when you hear how young they were.
It's truly terrible.
Yeah, I'm afraid.
I just thought of something else I would just like to put out there because, you know, being in my position, I have been in a position where I have been able to be vocal.
And that means that I've had a lot of people reaching out to me with information.
A couple of months ago, I had a British girl reach out to me and she said that her and her friend met Geoffrey Epstein and Virginia the weekend of March 10th, 2001 at the Dorchester Hotel.
Virginia lured them to Geoffrey's hotel.
She made the girls lie and say that they were 18 years old.
One was 13, one was 14.
They actually signed NDAs with Virginia and David Boyes paid them off.
Now, they're too scared to come.
Well, unless you've got evidence for any of that, I'm not going to allow you to speed any cock and ball conspiracy theory that you've come to your mind.
Once David Boyes, it might take to the point where he passes away.
And then I feel like the floodgates will open and all.
You know what?
David Boyce might well sue you.
David Boyes might well sue you over what you've just said.
Well, very serious defamation.
So what I want to tell you is I'm very much in touch with the police, literally on WhatsApp, and they know a lot of information that you guys are not privy to.
Do you know what, Victoria?
With the greatest respect, I think you talk utter shit.
All right.
And I've been, I'm sorry.
I've known you a long time.
I think you've disappeared down a conspiracy rabbit hole that is frankly.
Well, I've always been right about my conspiracy.
You don't give a vaccines.
You know, you always give out COVID and you are going to be able to do that.
You don't give a damn about these girls.
You don't give a damn about these victims.
You think it's fine to smear all of them.
You admit it.
You proudly admit it.
And I think it's shameful.
We now know that alignment.
We now know from these documents just how disgusting the scandal is.
And yet, still you come on shows like this and you're still in total denial for reasons that completely.
But can we talk about the quality of girls?
So, Anushka de Giorgio, as an example, you know what she did?
Like, this is the caliber of person we're talking about.
Anushka de Georgia.
Actually, I'm not going to let you smear them.
I'm sorry.
She was the girl.
No, I'm not going to let you do it.
Sorry, cut her mind.
She did not mind the story.
I'm not letting you do it.
I'm not letting you smear these victims anymore.
I'm just not going to let you do it.
Just cut her off.
Ollie Dougmore, this is an extraordinary scandal in so many ways.
But I mean, in your lifetime, have you ever seen anything quite like this in terms of the double-pronged threat to the real pillars of British establishment?
No, I haven't, Piers.
You used Profimo as an example, as a point of reference.
Profimo was a more junior appointee than Mandelson was, and obviously absolutely not a member of the royal family.
Look, this might sound a slightly strange way of thinking about this, but it will make sense in the end.
I've been thinking a lot these last few weeks about what being a man is, Piers.
And I think one of the best things any man can do in his life is to involve himself in a child, whether that's becoming a father or if you find a child that is growing up in a fatherless household, is to present them with a positive male role model, taking them to the football, taking them to the boxing, teaching them how to cook, teaching them how to communicate, all of these things.
That's what some of the best things, most meaningful things a man can do in his life.
And I think it's one of the most important things that we have in our toolkit for combating the masculinity and misogyny crisis that we face in our society now, because there is a strain of manhood in our society that views women as sex objects, not as friends, not as people.
It views them as Pokemon cards, collectibles.
And you see that in the emails, right?
The way they talk about women is absolutely reprehensible.
Oh, I think there's a Romanian you might like.
I think you might be interested in this one.
It's disgusting.
It's morally reprehensible.
They're not men.
They're scum.
I'm sorry to use such strong language, Piers, but I think they're absolutely degenerate.
You know, the way that these people...
You know, I agree with you.
The way that these people work.
I agree with you.
Sorry, go on.
Yeah.
No, I was going to say, I was going to bring Spencer in here because also these aren't, in many cases, these victims aren't women.
They're girls.
They're young girls.
I've got a 14-year-old daughter.
These are young girls, right?
Who were being passed around these rich, powerful, famous predators to use and abuse.
That is what is crystal clear now from these files as more and more come out.
And this is just the stuff they've shown us.
We don't even know what's in the other 3 million.
I mean, God knows what's in there, but it's horrific.
And yet there is a lot of accountability going on in the UK.
But as I said to RoCanna earlier, there seems to be no accountability going on in the United States.
Why do you think that is?
It's despicable.
It's just very frustrating.
It's a different take on society because we've become so hyper-politicized here in the States between the Republicans and the Democrats.
And you've got to pick a team and then just defend your team regardless of what the facts show that nobody wants to accept reality and history will ultimately be the judge.
You know, I am very comfortable sitting in the place I am because of 20 years ago, the work I did on these cases.
I can look back on that and feel proud about the advocacy I did on behalf of these young girls.
I don't think that that will be the same for some of the politicians and very wealthy people that are in these files now, or even the people defending them, like Lady Harvey.
I think that history will look and judge them very poorly looking back on this.
Yeah, I agree.
History Will Ultimately Be The Judge00:00:29
Panel, thank you all very much.
I appreciate it.
Piers Morgan Oson is proudly independent.
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