Venezuela has more oil than any other country in the world - but 80% of its people are living in poverty. It’s a democracy, at least in name, but the man who won the last election with 68% of the vote is facing jail and living in exile in Spain. The popular socialist patriotism of Hugo Chavez, whether you personally liked it or not, has been wrecked by the corruption and incompetence of the man he trusted to replace him - Nicolas Maduro. Maduro still has some supporters - and one of the most prominent among them is the legendary Pink Floyd musician Roger Waters, who joins Piers Morgan to discuss Venezuela, Iran, Trump... and those comments he made about Ozzy Osbourne. Piers Morgan Uncensored is proudly independent and supported by: Melania: Step inside 20 days before history is made - watch MELANIA, only in theaters January 30; get your tickets now! Oxford Natural: To watch their full stories, scan the QR code on your screen or visit https://oxfordnatural.com/piers/ to get 70% off your first order when you use code PIERS. Mando: Control Body Odor ANYWHERE with @shop.mando and get 20% off + free shipping with promo code PIERS at https://shopmando.com! #mandopod Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
Transcriber: nvidia/parakeet-tdt-0.6b-v2, sat-12l-sm, and large-v3-turbo
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Support for Iranian Protesters00:14:35
Roger, welcome back to One Census.
Maduro, there aren't many people out there flying the flag with this despot.
It's an invasion.
The kidnapping of Nicolas Maduro.
They made up the daft story about him being a drug dealer, which is absolute errant nonsense.
I believe in human rights for all my brothers and sisters.
Do you support the protesters in Iran at the moment?
Here we go.
You support the protesters and you support the regime.
Yes, of course.
Piers grow up.
The Iranians do not want regime change.
You might think Donald Trump's a jolly good chap.
He was always a real scumbag.
You rail a lot about America, but you live in America.
Why don't you act on a point of principle?
I'm going to live in Iran or Venezuela.
Piers, darling, maybe I will.
It may well be that Donald and his cabal will make that decision for me.
You don't regret the things you said about Aussie Osborne and the hurt that caused his family.
Oh, shit.
If you've listened to, watched, or read anything much about Venezuela in the past few weeks, and the chances are that you have, you will be aware of some common themes.
Venezuela has more oil than any other country in the world, but 80% of its people live in poverty.
It's run by a proudly leftist regime, but only a tiny cabal of cronies get rich, while the working class is shattered by hyperinflation, empty shops, and medicine shortages.
It's a democracy, at least in name, but the man who won the last election with 68% of the vote is facing jail and living in exile in Spain.
The popular socialist patriotism of Hugo Chavez, whether you personally liked it or not, has been wrecked by the corruption and incompetence of the man he trusted to replace him, Nicolas Maduro.
The reason these are common themes is because they're borne out by facts, not least the fact that 8 million Venezuelans have fled the country as refugees.
But not everybody agrees with these facts.
Maduro still has some supporters, and one of his most prominent supporters is the legendary Pink Floyd musician Roger Waters, who joins me on Arcensia.
Roger, welcome back to Once Sensor.
Thank you, Piers.
Nicolas Maduro, there aren't many people out there flying the flag with this despot.
Why do you support him?
There are many people out here flying the flag of Nicolas Maduro.
I support him because he's the duly democratically elected leader of a country that represents all the principles of the Bolivarian and Chavez revolutionary process.
So he represents the people of Venezuela who live a completely different, you know, completely different way of life than in the United States where I live or in England where you live.
But it is one that I admire because it's based upon socialist principles and the idea of equal human rights for all people.
I don't want to make a long speech, but that's why.
On the point about him being a democratically elected.
Yeah, well, on the point about the democratically elected part of the equation, as you know, I think 60% of the countries around the world believe that the last election was rigged, that he banned his main opponent from even running, that he claimed victory when he hadn't won, that he stayed in office when he shouldn't have done.
That's the antithesis of democracy.
It's the kind of thing you see in Russia.
Now, you're talking about, if you're right about this, and I'm not, I'm not, I don't know whether you are right about the 60% or not, but that would be 60% of the leaders of the governments of countries around the world, not the countries.
If the countries are the people who live in those countries, it's a bit like other things that we're going to get on to later, probably, like Gaza.
Most of the people all over the world despise the genocide that's going on in Palestine now.
So we can go to that later if you want.
But what I'm saying is that what we tend to see is the propaganda put out by the governments of the other countries in the world.
So what we hear is what the American government and the English government and the French government and the EU and the blah, blah, blah have to say about the Bolivarian revolution.
Okay.
Not necessarily the people.
But Roger, if it's been so great in Venezuela, why have eight million Venezuelans left the country under Maduro?
Because of the US sanctions, obviously, because since 2001.
Don't forget, there was a coup organized by the United States, probably by Eliot Abrams, if I remember, to depose Hugo Chavez when he was first elected as the president of Venezuela back in 1990.
So they tried to depose him in a coup d'état in 2002, which didn't work because the people of Venezuela said, are you joking?
Which is exactly what they're saying now.
They said it in 2019, where the American government and the rest of the West tried to impose Guido on them in a coup, and they're saying it again now.
And the reason that people are leaving is because it's very difficult to live in a country which has had shocking and appalling sanctions imposed upon it by a very, very powerful foreign empire, namely the United States of America.
But it's also true.
That's only my theory.
Well, sure.
But it's also true that Maduro's presidency has been marred not just by economic crisis, but by political repression, widespread accusations of corruption and drug trafficking.
As I said, eight million people left, but while he was in power, Maduro's regime was accused of widespread crimes against humanity by the United Nations, including extrajudicial killings and torture techniques such as electric shock, sexual violence and asphyxiation as part of a plan they said the UN orchestrated at the highest levels of the government to repress dissent.
I mean, why would you align yourself to a regime like that?
Piers, I've talked to you before.
We did a show once, I think, in London a couple of years ago, of things.
So I understand where you're coming from because I understand that you believe the mainstream media in the West.
Excuse me, I haven't finished.
No, you could have read any and all of this in the pages of the New York Times.
But it was the United Nations.
Well, excuse me, you talked about drug trafficking, drug trafficking.
There is no mention of Venezuela in any of the reports from the DEA, even in the United States of America, to link Venezuela or Maduro to any drug trafficking.
So this is a news story that's been cooked up very, very recently in order to support the latest attacks upon that country.
Anyway, you know, to go into the detail is you and me is nonsense.
We have different opinions about these things.
And we don't need to need really to air those different opinions.
My position is this.
I believe in human rights for all my brothers and sisters.
I believe for human rights for my brothers and sisters, equal under international law in Venezuela and the United States of America and England, where I come from, where we don't have them anymore because England is now a fascist state, witnessed the criminalising of Palestine Act and so on.
I believe in equal human rights for Palestinians, Israelis, the people of Iran, which is now a big question mark.
It looks as if the...
I don't know what it looks as if.
I don't want to start guessing about the future of it.
But that's my platform.
The universal...
Right, but here's what I'm curious about.
I understand, but I'm curious about your platform in this sense.
Is that my understanding is that for all your support of someone like Maduro and his regime, you have a very different view of the Iranian regime.
You think they're a bad thing?
No, of course not.
It's none of my business.
I'm not an Iranian.
Why don't we let the Iranians figure out what kind of government they want?
We absolutely know one thing.
We know they don't want the Shah's son back.
Right, but the least popular.
Sorry, I'll say that we know they do not want...
Excuse me.
We know the Iranians do not want regime change.
We've seen what's happened over the last week, I believe, in a lot of Iran, and there have been a lot of deaths.
But I'm doing my research.
It takes a while.
You have to get into it.
You have to go to the United States.
So you have supported the protests.
What do you mean?
Oh, you mean when, oh, you mean the wearing of the Hajib thing?
I do support.
I support the right of women to dress how they want anywhere in the world.
I do, yes.
So do you not agree with the...
Do you support the protesters in Iran at the moment?
Well, if it was the shopkeepers who went, oh my God, inflation's going through the roof.
Let's do something about it.
Of course I do.
Why shouldn't they say?
And so did the government.
The government sent the police out to protect those grocers, those business owners, those ordinary working people in Iran.
Okay?
And they were attacked by gangs of armed thugs who murdered, we believe, we don't know, the truth isn't all out, but armed thugs, probably organized by MI6 and the CIA.
Right, so sorry, just to be clear.
That's nothing to do with.
So just to be clear, you support the protesters and you support the regime.
Yes, of course.
I would love regimes where people could protest, like the good woman who was just murdered in Minneapolis, and the government could govern for the benefit of the people.
I live in the United States, where the government does not govern for the benefit of the people.
It governs for the benefit of the oligarchs and the very rich, and everyone knows it.
Right.
Okay, so I can't support the current...
Sorry, go on.
Well, my view of the Iranian regime, and tell me where you disagree with this characterization, is that for 47 years since they toppled the Shah, and I'm not saying by any means the Shah regime was perfect.
But certainly by comparison to what we see today, Iranians had a much better quality of life under the Shah than they do under this regime.
And that this regime has been one of the most repressive and degrading regimes on the Iranian people of any regime in the world.
And that is by common consent of every international organization you can think of.
Piers, darling, darling, please.
I disagree.
But why wouldn't we ask Iranians to answer that question?
I have asked because they've answered the question.
Excuse me.
I'm not talking about the MEK.
I'm not talking about Rudy Giuliani in the United States.
No, I talked to Iranian people.
So actually, there are 80 million of them.
The Iranian people are absolutely united to defend Iran against the influence of the Empire of the United States of America.
So why are so many Iranian people taking to the streets to protest against their own regime?
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They're not, they were protesting against inflation and against the devaluation of the Rai or whatever the currency is called.
That's what they were.
And they stopped protesting the minute anybody started talking about regime decisions.
They haven't stopped protesting or re-imposed.
Excuse me, re-imposed.
Well, they haven't stopped protesting.
Where are you getting this from?
Well, I'm not there.
I'm not there.
No, you're not there.
But where are you getting your information?
No, but I have lots of friends who are there because I'm philosophically quite close to the people of Iran.
And the mass of the people, this is what you keep not understanding, is the mass of the people are absolutely solidly opposed to the foreign interference.
And this, of course, includes all of the sanctions against Iran that have caused the massive inflation and the devaluation of the country.
But why do you think Iran has been sanctioned?
Because it's the last country on the list that Paul Wolfowitz told Wesley Clark about back whenever it was in the Pentagon, of the countries that the United States want to destroy so that they can take over the world.
And it's the last one standing.
They've destroyed the other six.
There were seven on the list.
In fact, the reason Iran's been sanctioned...
But hang on, Roger.
The reason Iran's been sanctioned is because it is unarguable that it has been a major sponsor of terror organizations all through the Middle East, from the Houthis, the Houthis, to Hezbollah, to Hamas.
But it's true.
Defining Terror and Resistance00:06:57
It's not a Palestine action.
It's nonsense.
Anyway, one man's terrorism is another man's freedom.
Well, let me ask you that.
So do you think that Hamas?
Let me ask you first then, because it's important to what I just said.
Of course, that only applies if you view Hamas, Hezbollah, and the Houthis as terror groups.
Do you?
Here we go.
Peers grow up.
This is an absurd conversation.
It's like you, what you're trying to do is drag this conversation into one about the meaning of the word terrorist and who is and who isn't.
Well, anybody with an IQ above room temperature knows that that's a meaningless conversation and that the word terrorist is a blight on our language because it doesn't mean anything significant.
It means whatever the person using it wants it to mean.
You know, so if you drop bombs on people and murder hundreds of thousands of people and you're on the right side of whoever's opinion it is, you are not a terrorist.
But if you kill a few people somewhere else, you are.
So it's just a question of where you stand in the political and the global political sure.
So just to be clear, where you stand.
But that's why the word should either be defined properly as to what it for instance, I believe terrorists mean to try to accomplish political ends by acts of violence that involve murder.
Am I right?
Is that it?
Yeah, pretty much, yeah.
I mean, yeah, okay.
Well, then anybody, you know, so to call Hamas terrorists, but not to call the Israelis terrorists is absurd, obviously.
I mean, our issue.
Well, let me ask you, let me ask you.
Excuse me.
At some stage, I have to ask you a question.
So on October the 7th, 2023, did Hamas commit an act of terrorism?
Oh, God.
Not again.
Not again.
Well, did they or not?
I'm not going.
Do you know what's good about me having this conversation with you now in hindsight?
Because we had this conversation when we spoke last.
And I said the word Zaka to you and you went, well, well, did you find out who Zaka are?
As I asked you to when we had a conversation before?
Did you?
Who are they?
Roger, with what did they say?
I just asked you whether Hamas.
Excuse me.
No, well, you...
This is not.
If you want to interview me, you won't have the conversation.
If you want to interview me, we'll do that for a show of your own.
You're on my show.
I'm asking you questions.
I'm simply curious whether you believe what Hamas did on October the 7th was an act of terrorism.
You know, well, October the 7th is a very complex.
On some level, it's very simple.
I.e. it was an act of resistance by an occupied people.
The armed wing, okay, the armed wing of an occupied people.
That's what it was.
So it wasn't terrorism, it was an act of resistance.
Well, I'm not going to get involved in your terrorism story.
What I am...
I mean, who murdered most of the people?
The Israelis did.
Have you seen the piles of bombed out cars destroyed by hellfire missiles?
Thousands and thousands of them.
You think the Israelis killed most of the people who died on October the 7th?
Yes, I do.
Yes.
What a load of nonsense.
Honestly, Roger, seriously.
Well, isn't that interesting that you should say that?
Look at the evidence, Piers.
You've never even heard of Zaka made up all the lies about rape.
Where'd you get your evidence from?
Really curious.
Piers, we had this conversation.
I'm looking at your worldview, Roger.
Roger, look, you don't need to do this.
You're a very wealthy, successful, talented musician, made a fortune as a member of Pink Floyd.
You don't need to say all these things.
I'm just having you on to try and get to understand where this comes from.
You think Nicholas Maduro, that most people think, was a disgusting tyrant of Venezuela, is a good guy.
You can't seem to make your mind up whether the regime in Iran is a good or bad thing, but you think the only reason people are protesting is because of the economy, which is nonsense.
You think that what Hamas did on October the 7th was an act of resistance and won't call them terrorists and so on.
So you're an outlier, as you know, with how conventional thinking is on these things.
You know, you're perfectly entitled to be, but when you say these things, you know, I look at you, for example, you rail a lot about America and about Donald Trump, but you live in America, right?
I mean, there's an inconsistency there.
Why live somewhere if you hate it so much or hate the leaders so much?
Why don't you act on a point of principle, get off your backside and go and live in Iran or Venezuela?
Live under one of these regimes that you think aren't too bad.
Piers, Piers, do stop.
Do stop.
Maybe I will.
But to answer your question about me being successful in rock and roll and blah, blah, blah.
Yes, I am, very and blah, blah, blah, and all of that.
Why do I do all of this?
Because I believe.
I hope you're listening.
I believe in right and wrong.
Right.
I have a moral compass.
Excuse me, let me finish.
I have a moral compass which I allow to guide my actions.
And also, I read a lot.
And I don't just read the New York Times or the Sunday Telegraph.
I read, I get information through, and I have a lot of friends.
I have a network of people all over the world who also, like me, believe in equal human rights for all their brothers and sisters all over the world, irrespective of their religion or their race or their nationality or ethnicity or anything else.
And that is a fundamental thing that drives me in what I do.
That's why I'm talking to you now today.
Much as I adore you, obviously, I'm still, that is why I'm here.
Because I, to some extent, am a voice for the voiceless.
And I get told this by the voiceless millions of times every year in responses to the activities that I wouldn't call Nicolas Maduro a Nicholas Maduro is not the voiceless and nor a Hamas and nor are the Iranian regime.
So although it suits you to say I only stand up for the voiceless, actually it sounds to me like you like to stand up for terror groups and call them resistance.
Stand Up Against Regimes00:02:01
You like to stand up for dictators and say they're just massively misunderstood guys.
You like to stand up for one of the world's worst regimes in Iran and pretend that the only reason people there are protesting is because of the economy and that's because of sanctions put on it by other countries wrongly because they don't prop up any terror groups.
So when I look at your worldview, I don't see a guy with all due respect, Roger, who's standing up for the voiceless and powerless.
I see somebody trying to prop up terrorists and powerful dictatorships and regimes.
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Putin's Invasion Narrative00:11:52
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Well, that's because you're a guy who's trying to prop up the evil Western empire that is trying to take over the whole world using war as its main way of doing that.
That is why the West is insisting on remaining at a state of perpetual war with anybody with whom it disapproves in the country.
This includes Iran and Venezuela.
There are only two, and the Palestinians and so on and so forth.
So you believe in that as being a as it being a reasonable system for the world to proceed.
No, I don't.
Excuse me.
I don't.
Well, why don't you ever say anything on your program to stop?
Excuse me.
Roger, with respect, you're wrong.
In 2003, as editor of the Daily Mirror, I led a relentless campaign against the Iraq war, for example.
So you're wrong in your characterization that all I like is war.
I don't.
Complete opposite.
Okay, so you've given me one example.
Bravo, good for you, Piers.
Thank you.
I'm glad you did.
That was the correct thing to do.
And in hindsight, you are now in a huge majority of people who, because they know the lie that was told about weapons of mass destruction back in March of 2003 when the United States invaded Iraq and destroyed that country, killing over a million Iraqis, by the way.
I agree.
And leaving it devastated.
I agree.
Okay, which is...
Well, they are trying to do the same thing now by trying to encourage a war with Iran.
And maybe even they will try and start a war with Iran.
They've also invaded the sovereign country of Venezuela.
It's an invasion.
The kidnapping of Nicolas Maduro.
They made up the daft story about him being a drug dealer, which is absolute errant nonsense, as everybody knows.
And then they invaded the country and whisked him off to New York.
What's going to happen next?
Nobody knows.
Trump doesn't know.
He spends his time staring out of the French windows at what might be a ball.
So what do you think of Donald Trump?
What do you think of Donald Trump?
He's demented.
He's demented.
He's obviously very evil, but now he's demented as well as being very evil.
He was always a real scumbag.
Everything he's ever done is awful in every way.
So we can, you know, you can disagree.
You might think Donald Trump's, you know, a jolly good chap.
MAGA, make him all that crap.
None of which he believes.
All he believes is in lining his pockets and the pockets of Gerard Kushner and, you know, and maybe some of his other children and his friends Elon Musk and Mark Zuckerberg and all the rest of the oligarchs who are all in the same country.
But begin, Roger, if you feel this way, why do you live in America?
I don't understand why you live there.
I think I moved out of England at least partially when I did, which was at the turn of the millennium, because I couldn't stand the, funnily enough, the political atmosphere there because it's more hidden.
It's a little more, it's a bit more under the surface.
There are wonderful people there.
I see that my friend Naomi Winborn-Adrisi is starting.
I think she's starting a new party.
She's certainly standing for something, because I got an email from her last night.
So the fact that people like her and Jeremy Corbyn are still involved in politics, maybe I would try and move back.
But don't forget.
No, it wasn't my question.
My question was: why do you want to say that?
Why do you want to live in America given how much you hate Donald Trump?
You think he's evil.
He's demented.
He's waging all these wars, as you put it.
Why wouldn't you just leave the country?
I don't get it.
Okay, can I answer?
I don't think the American people are evil.
I think, as my mother did as well, I'll never forget, she said to me, you know, darling, the American people are a people good and true.
As I've written in a poem, I think, good neighbours to rebuild the barn.
There is a feeling amongst the idea of some of those settler colonialists who were the, you know, let's not talk about the genocide of the Native Americans because that's central to all of this conversation.
But anyway, they would help you rebuild the barn.
And those people still exist, but they're not, they have no voice.
America is not a democracy.
You can buy the presidency.
Donald Trump did.
And he buys it from APAC money and from oligarchal money and from donor money.
The fact that you're allowed to pour millions and millions into politics makes it impossible for it to be democratic, not to mention the electoral.
So you live in an undemocratic country run by an evil, demented person.
Again, I simply ask you, why are you still there?
Well, I've looked at alternatives, I promise you.
Portugal is a possibility.
I very much like some of the islands in the Caribbean and the governments that they have as well.
I do follow what people think.
So it may be that my residency in the United States may not last for the rest of my life.
It may well be that Donald and his cabal will make that decision for me because he is pretty erratic and he's got ice.
He could send masked men round to shoot me in the head through my car window, like he does, to people who disagree with him.
So I agree with you.
Piers, we live in a really dangerous, totally effed up world.
I couldn't agree with you more.
And to find somewhere good to live is difficult.
But we still have to clamber around the eyes that were given us by Karl Marx and others in the late 19th and the early, or in the middle 19th century, and try and find ways forward in the future that is not what we've got now.
Because what we've got now is destroying the planet that we live on.
Okay.
Do you give Trump any credit?
Do you give Trump any credit for getting to a ceasefire in Gaza?
No, of course not.
I don't give him any credit for anything.
There's no ceasefire.
Ceasefire in Gaza.
There's no ceasefire.
They're murdering them as fast as they can go.
There was never any ceasefire.
November the 17th was a huge disaster in the Security Council.
And mainly because, and I've said this to my Russian friends, because neither Russia nor China vetoed it.
So we now have to get our heads around the idea that, oh, maybe they're not anti-imperialist.
And so Mir Sheimer may be right in some of his contentions that we live in a realistic world and that everybody's out for themselves and they don't really care about people, particularly people in other countries or people who are...
Do you think Russia is Russia been justified in its war in Ukraine?
That's a very difficult question.
When they invaded, I thought it was wrong.
Obviously, as we've said before, and as I said in various dissertations to the Security Council in the United Nations, no less.
I think I said that I deplore the invasion of Ukraine, but it was not unprovoked.
It was provoked beyond all the people.
And what do you feel now today?
What do you feel today?
I feel that they should have made peace in February 2022 when it was offered to them.
The Ukrainians, I mean.
And Boris Johnson went in and said, no, you can't.
We don't want peace.
I mean, and if you think I'm wrong, just read the history and see what actually happened.
And read the Minsk Accords and see, because there was a civil war going on in Ukraine when Russia started what they call their special military operation.
Everybody knows all this who knows anything about it, but it's suppressed by the Western.
So what is your view of Vladimir Putin?
Has Vladimir Putin been mischaracterized, do you think?
You know, what's interesting is how careful Putin's been all the way through.
And also anybody who studied the war in Ukraine would agree with this.
And a lot of people, a lot of people watching this and commenting on it say, you know, if the West manages to get rid of Putin, they should be careful what they wish for, because it's very likely that the much harder line faction in Russian political society, one of them might take over, and then you will see something completely different.
Because Putin has conducted the special military operation with his gloves off.
He really has tried not to hurt civilians and so on and so forth.
What?
Who knows if they're not...
What are you talking about?
Because Putin...
See, you know nothing, Piers.
Vladimir Putin is trying really hard not to hurt civilians, is it?
Did you really just say that?
I thought you hated war.
I thought you hated war, Roger.
Vladimir Putin illegally invaded the United States.
He illegally invaded a sovereign democratic country and started bombing the shit out of it.
Why would you on any level try and excuse or defend it?
Why didn't they make peace in 2022, three weeks after the war started?
Why did the war start?
Why didn't they?
You know the answer to that, or maybe you still haven't read anything.
I've no idea.
If you haven't read the history, then you haven't read the history.
So you may never know.
Right.
I've read a lot of history.
We all know it wasn't because we all know it wasn't because Putin wants to invade Europe and take over the whole of Western Europe.
He wants to invade Romania and Poland and France and England and Germany and extend Russia to the... which is the story that they've been trying to sell you in the mainstream.
That's absolute errant nonsense.
Yeah, I mean, he only took Crimea, then he tried to take Georgia, then he's taken the southeast of Ukraine.
And it's not like he's got a pattern of seizing stuff in the world.
Crimea asked.
The people of Crimea asked to join the Russian Federation.
Of course.
98% of them.
Of course, in a referendum run by the Russians, which you apparently think was a credible referendum.
Incredible referendum.
All right, Piers.
Empathy and Personal Stories00:07:18
Let me end with this.
Listen, I'm glad you had me on.
Let me tell you why I'm glad you had me on.
Let me tell you why I'm if I may.
You may.
And I do thank you for it.
Okay.
I do thank you for it.
Because I believe in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, because I have empathy for all my brothers and sisters in Venezuela and in Palestine and in Israel and in Iran and blah, blah, blah, all over the world.
I am very grateful to you for allowing my sensible voice to be heard somewhere.
And I count you as part of the mainstream media, in the mainstream media.
Just as I was very glad years and years ago when Tucker Colzman had me on Fox News because he knew I supported the release of Julian Assange, which I did.
And he did an interview with me and we talked about that.
And eventually Julian Assange was released.
And I'm glad to have been part of that movement.
And I was, sod Lily, for year after year after year, all the time he was banged up in Belmarsh and whatever.
Because Julian Assange is a great journalist and a great teller of the truth and believes, like I do, in universal human rights.
So thank you for allowing me to be part of him and part of all those of us, and we are millions strong, who believe in equal human rights for all our brothers and sisters from the river to the sea, from all rivers to all seas.
Okay, and you've referenced the word empathy a few times.
And I do want to end with something which was quite personal to me because it involved a friend of mine, which was that after Ozzy Osborne, your fellow rock star died.
Yeah, yeah.
Well, after he died, you told The Independent, Ozzy Osborne, who just died, bless him in his whatever that state he was in his whole life, will never know.
Although he was all over the TV for hundreds of years with his idiocy and nonsense, the music I have no idea.
I couldn't give a fuck.
I don't care about Black Sabbath.
I never did.
I have no interest in biting the heads of chickens wherever they do.
I couldn't care less, you know.
Do you think that was empathetic?
Listen, A, I didn't speak to The Independent.
I assume you're talking about the Independent newspaper into the United Kingdom.
Are you?
What are you talking about?
You're talking with the Independent Inc.
That's who you're talking to.
Ah, okay.
Well, when you say The Independent on television, when you're talking to Karen, the widow of said Aussie Osborne, you say that it sounds as if I was talking to a newspaper.
It's Sharon, not Karen.
The comments that you...
Sharon, that's what I said, wasn't it?
Sorry, I apologise, Sharon.
I apologise.
Getting your name wrong.
Yeah, Independent Inc. is a podcast that a guy called Mr. Fish, that's his professional name, and he's an illustrator and cartoonist.
He does all the drawings for...
Yeah, but this is all irrelevant.
I don't understand why you're...
Excuse me.
And Ozzy Osborne has just died.
Why would you trash him like that?
If you're Mr. Empathy.
I haven't finished.
Excuse me.
May I finish?
So those comments, I'm not denying that I said them, came in the middle of a long interview called the Independent Inc.
It makes no difference where you said that.
Hang on.
In the middle of an hour and a half long interview.
So what?
And we were smiling and well, I mean, do I have to like every rock group there ever was in the world?
You have to trash him in such a personal way so soon after he died.
I want to play you a clip from when Sharon came on my show because it really upset me.
Oh, I've seen it.
Well, let me play it again.
Remind our viewers.
Let's take a look.
No, I don't want to see it.
I'm not interested.
I'm not interested.
Because he's really insignificant, but I just thought with anybody that passes that has a family, you don't do that.
That's true, isn't it?
If you're really empathetic, you don't do that to someone, to a family, when they've lost someone they love like that.
Obviously, I had no idea that Sharon Osborne would be watching a podcast by a very well-known and a lot of people.
Would you like to apologise then for the hurt you caught?
Yeah, of course I will.
Not that I have any time for Sharon Osborne.
She's a raging Zionist.
And in consequence, she's like, she's not in my very...
And she's accused me of all kinds of things.
She's constantly accused because she's part of the Israeli lobby.
But would you like to apologise to the Osbourne family?
For the way that you trashed Ozzy Osborne in that.
Not really.
You don't really like to know.
Listen, Jack.
Well, Jack, you know, Jack Osborne.
If he wants to have a chat, I'll have a chat with you.
Jack Osborne lost his dad.
And I won't be nasty to him.
Well, you know, yeah, I'm sorry you lost your dad, Jack.
But this is like you have conversations about things and about people in.
What do you think?
Well, a lot.
I was honest.
I said I didn't like Black Sabbath.
But that's not, I think, I've listened to some of it since.
And the music is perfectly kind of, except it was all the kind of histrionics of, I don't like people who bite the heads off bats.
I just don't.
I think it's disgusting.
And I've said that again.
Now, I know he's dead and he can't come back and go, yeah, I'm sorry I bit the heads off bats.
If he ever did, who knows whether he did or not?
And I don't want to talk about that.
So you don't regret the things you said about Aussie Osborne and the hurt that caused his family.
Piers, I regret nothing in life except that I haven't been more successful in getting people to understand how important it is that we as a human race recognize and empathize with all our brothers and sisters all over the world and make certain that they have equal human rights one with another under international law.
The Osbourne family, you know, no, I'm not that interested in it.
That's fine.
So you're big on empathy, right to the point it's a grieving family and then you couldn't give a shit.
Roger Waters, thank you very much.
Depending.
Well done.
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