“I Want To Apologize” Novak Djokovic & Piers Morgan Finally Meet | On Covid Row, Sinner & More
ExpressVPN: Right now you can get an extra four months of ExpressVPN for free. Just scan the QR code on the screen, or go to https://ExpressVPN.com/PIERS and get four extra months for free. Piers Morgan didn’t exactly shy away from publicly criticising Novak Djokovic over his stance on Covid vaccines, even tweeting “good” when the tennis great was banned from Australia over it. And now, for the first time, the pair come face-to-face to relay what was really going on inside their heads during that tumultuous time - and of course to discuss the highs and lows of Novak’s illustrious career as what many perceive to be the greatest ever tennis player. He opens up about how he’s felt watching Sinner and Alcaraz’s ascent into stardom plus he gives his insight into Sinner’s doping ban. And does he think he can win another Grand Slam? But maybe most compellingly… does HE believe he’s the greatest of all time? BUBS Naturals: Live Better Longer with BUBS Naturals. For A limited time get 20% Off your entire order with code PIERS at https://Bubsnaturals.com Oxford Natural: To watch their full stories, scan the QR code on your screen or visit https://oxfordnatural.com/piers/ to get 70% off your first order when you use code PIERS. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
Transcriber: nvidia/parakeet-tdt-0.6b-v2, sat-12l-sm, and large-v3-turbo
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Apology for Deportation00:15:16
I'm going to start by making an apology.
Tennis star Novak Djokovic.
He had a hearing overnight to decide whether he will stay and play the Australian Open.
The world number one has been booted out of Australia.
Deportation marks the end of his Australian Open hopes.
If I want to go to America, I have to take a test and show my vaccination status.
That's it.
So he shouldn't be allowed to play, right?
It stops you from dying.
I mean, that's the whole point of the vaccine.
He's also a role model who would have definitely deterred a lot of people who perhaps should have the job.
What you said, it speaks volumes about the person that you are.
I'm just saying I'm not like that.
It's part of you also thinking, I'm not sure I can compete against these guys at this level now.
To your point, yes, I do have more doubts that I can win slams, particularly against these two guys.
I just stared at the wall for 20 or 30 minutes, and that's the first time I felt really empty.
I just want to re-gain the love and passion for the sport because I lost it.
So if you one day played your son at tennis in a dream.
In a professional game.
You wouldn't let him win, would you?
I would kick his.
Onciner, is there a cloud over him about the drugs thing?
That cloud will follow him as the cloud of COVID will follow me.
Should ask him.
I only interviewed goats.
I expected worse.
This is not against you and you're kind of like intelligently hiding.
Novak, we meet at last.
At last.
I've never met you.
I've talked about you quite a lot.
And I'm going to start by making an apology.
And it's for this, is I was very censorious about you over the COVID scandal that you got caught up in.
And in a nutshell, you got thrown out of Australia over what seemed to be on the face of it, from what the media were being told and what was being reported, was you trying to bend the rules of getting into play in the Australian Open without having taken the COVID vaccine.
And I was actually quite censorious about a lot of people at the time.
And I've since apologised to some people for being too tough on them.
Because once it became clear that if you had the vaccine, it made no difference to whether you could then transmit the virus.
Clearly, at that point for me, it becomes a personal choice.
If the potential danger is irrelevant compared to whether you have the jab or not.
And so I have, on that basis, said, look, I believe the vaccines were important.
I think they saved a lot of lives.
I had lots of people in my life at the time who were going through a terrible time with COVID.
One of my co-workers on the morning show I was doing, her husband was in a coma from COVID.
He sadly died.
A friend of mine said goodbye to her mother on FaceTime, who was in a care home and died from COVID and so on.
I knew lots of people.
So it felt quite personal.
It felt quite visceral to me.
But I was too censorious.
And when more information emerged about your situation, the fact you'd had COVID several weeks before you went to Australia, the fact that you hadn't actually done anything wrong on the form filling, the fact that in the end it became a political decision to throw you out based on likely public anger if they didn't take action.
When I look back on that and reflect on that, I would like to say I'm sorry for the intemperate language I used against you because I didn't know you.
I took what I was reading and hearing at Face Valley.
It turned out to be more complicated.
And yeah, I'm sorry for over-regging the rhetorical souffle.
I appreciate that very much.
Let me get that off my honesty.
Thank you so much.
It was difficult times and state of emergency globally.
I understand, you know, we've been through.
We've been through hell globally, all of us on this planet, and you know.
The only thing I would add, not to really dig deeper into this, this whole situation on on the COVID and vaccination, is that I never, I was never a proponent of anti-vax or pro-vax.
I was always freedom of choice.
So and and that was misinterpreted you know I was proclaimed to be, you know, one side or the other side or so forth.
It's either black or white.
And I said, you know it doesn't need to be that way.
As an athlete, as someone that you know takes care of the integrity of the body and and an understanding of obviously doing my research and understanding that I'm not a threat to anybody and I don't need to do it myself.
And I've been through two times, two or three times.
I had COVID in like a year, year and a half, so I had all the antibodies, etc.
So anyway, long story short, good to see you here, good to finally meet you, and I appreciate and I respect the fact that you know what you said it's.
It speaks volumes about the person that you are.
So I really respect that and I was looking forward to speak to you even before you were slamming me for some time.
But check what I've said about you.
Yeah, I have been very nice about you as well.
Right, you have.
You have that particular issue.
I went too far.
I would say, on the nice side, that as we sit here, I've made it very clear publicly to me.
You, I've spent this morning with Cristiano Ronaldo, who I know, you know, and we'll come to him a little later because there are a few things you have in common but you know he's he's, to me, the greatest football player that's ever lived.
You, to me, are now indisputably the greatest tennis player that's ever lived and I've said that and I'll say it to your face.
Appreciate that.
I hope we can move on from the slightly negative way this had to start, because I felt compelled to say that, because I think it's important to be intellectually honest.
And when the narrative around the efficacy of whether the vaccine could stop you infecting people changed, I realized I'd been just too censorious.
But on the positive note, as you sit here, do you feel yourself that you're the best tennis player that's ever played?
I've been asked this question quite a bit, particularly lately, in the last several years, because of, obviously there's a lot of stats that you know people play with and they do comparisons between Nadal, Feather and myself, primarily because of our numbers of Grand Slams won, tournaments won weeks, panda number one of the world, etc.
But my answer is quite consistent when it comes to overall general discussion on the greatest of all time, and I'm gonna say it again, which is I'm not going to say whether I'm the greatest or not, because that's it's not my position to say that and I would say that that would be very disrespectful towards the generations that have paved the way for me, Nadal,
Feather and all the others.
It's so hard to compare eras.
You know, our sport has gone through quite a transformation in the last 50 years.
You just see the rackets, right?
I mean, in terms of technology, in terms of equipment, in terms of the balls, the surfaces, in terms of the fitness, in terms of the staff of the team of people that is around the player, it has become so much more professional.
Not because of the fact that it wasn't 30, 40, 50 years ago, but it just, the times are changing and the science, sports science is improving, so people have more access to data, to information, and hence why everyone gets more cautious and more, I would say, interested in understanding what it takes in every single aspect of your life,
how you can get an edge or a slight percentage of improvement so you can better your performance, your recovery, etc.
So the likes of Borg, Rod Lever, John McEnroe, those people that have created a history of the tennis that we enjoy today.
What people say when they argue that you're the best is that if you take all surfaces and you compare your record to anybody in history, yes, you've won the most grand slams, but actually you won on everything consistently.
That is what makes you unusual.
Most of the others, you could say on certain surfaces they're stronger, on others they're not as strong.
And obviously the same applies to you to a degree.
But you've won consistently on all surfaces.
Well, I think the modern tennis required me to do so.
And going back to the 80s, you had three out of four grand slans played on grass.
And now the grass is the least played surfaced on.
And I mean, it's one month a year and it used to be a predominant surface on the tour.
So the game has evolved a lot.
You used to have 90% of the players only up to maybe 90s or maybe even late 90s, early 2000s that would play serve and volley.
And they would switch from wooden records to graphite rackets and then obviously move into more lighter and refined materials.
And which with this kind of materials you would be able to play from the baseline with more control, with more accuracy, with more precision.
That wasn't the case with more robust materials like wood or graphite because it allowed you to serve well with good speed, but then you didn't have many players playing with a lot of spin.
Bjorn Borg was the first one that stayed back.
He would come in, but he would stay back quite a lot.
And so that would confuse a lot of the players and hence his incredible career and achievements.
And I think we would probably be sitting down today and talking about Borg being the greatest if he kept going.
He retired when he was 26.
Yeah, incredibly young.
He won 11 Grand Slams until that point.
Which, I mean, Alcaraz is kind of on the way to do something like that.
So it's, again, I don't feel really comfortable.
I appreciate the fact that you're bringing this forward to me, but I never felt really comfortable to talk about myself as being the greatest, because I consider myself as a great student of the game, and I respect the history of the game.
I respect all of the greats.
So I just, and then some of those greats were my coaches, like Boris Becker, for example, that I consider as part of my family.
So I just feel more comfortable leaving that discussion to others.
And of course, a great honor and privilege to be part of that discussion.
But the bottom line, Novak, is you've won 24 Grand Slams, and that is more than any player in history.
That's true.
The stats don't lie.
That is true.
That shows a remarkable longevity.
And especially with Federer and Nadal snapping around that number.
But ultimately, you prevailed, and you all had long careers.
That's why for me, in the end, you're the top dog.
You may not feel comfortable, but I appreciate it.
A little part of you has to like hear it.
I know you were a fan of tennis and sport, so I appreciate it.
What does it take?
In terms of sacrifice, I read somewhere recently, you were talking about you've got two kids, they're getting old.
I've got four kids, I know what that's like when they get to a certain level, and they start playing sport, and you want to be there.
You want to watch them have their journey on life.
And there starts to be that thing, and Christiana was talking about it, a slight sort of feeling when you start to have your, I guess, your desire to be somewhere.
You used to be single-mindedly on the court and winning.
And then it starts to be slightly conflicted with your family and wanting to be there for them.
And you were talking about that entering your head for the first time.
Talk about that for a moment.
It's interesting.
I had that discussion with some of my family members in the recent days as well.
Because I'm going through some form of a transition myself, you know, and trying to enter this last chapter of however long is going to last for me in my career with the peace of mind where I'll be able to still maintain that hunger and the competitiveness on the court,
but yet, you know, deal with some realities that at this moment are not easy for me to accept, you know, being the dominant player for most of my career for over 20 years and now being dominated by particularly Laukaraz and Sinner in the last year.
What is that like?
I mean, for two young whippersnappers to come.
Look, I mean, I knew it was going to happen eventually that, you know, the guys will come and they'll start to dominate and someone will form a new rivalry that is coming after the big three or the big four that have dominated sport for over 20 years.
And I think it's a natural progress and evolution in sport in general.
So Sinner and Alcaraz, I think they're great for our sport.
I mean, their rivalry, their matches, and they played one of the most epic matches of all time in the finals of Roland Garras this year, which was incredible just to watch.
And I was reflecting on that actually when I was at Wimbledon.
They asked me whether I watched it and I said that I didn't want to watch it because I lost semi-finals against Sinner and Roland Garrison.
I went back home and when I'm done with the tournament, I just want to switch off.
I don't want to see any tennis at least for a few days.
I want to be, unless my son wants to play and then that's different, obviously.
But my son and my wife particularly, also my daughter to some extent, but particularly my son and my wife, they're big tennis fans.
So they love to watch tennis.
They love to watch the finals of big tournaments, Grand Slams.
So I was somehow trying to drag them out of the house and I did that.
And I said, let's go, you know, have lunch, have a walk.
And they're like, they didn't want to confront me, but they were like, we really want to watch this match.
And I said, okay, you know what?
You can watch a set.
Let's just go.
And I thought that the match will be over by then.
I kind of planned my time outside for like a couple of hours.
I thought it's going to be like two and a half hours.
And they kept going.
They went for five and something hours.
So we went back and we ended up watching for two hours.
Watching Tennis with Family00:10:04
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How were you feeling watching them?
You know, honestly, honestly, no, I was feeling various things.
First, I was feeling like a refusal to watch.
I was like, I was kind of forced to watch just because my family wants me to watch.
Yeah, I can't think of anything.
And then right.
And so then I was, and then I, but that went away quickly because then I was really, you know, when I watch tennis, which is I assume for Cristiano when he watches football, you see it with a different eyes than a regular football or tennis fan.
And then I was very analytical at the beginning.
I was like, you know, trying to understand the game and what they're tactically doing to each other.
And then I entered the phase of admiration.
And I haven't felt that too many times in my life when I was watching someone else play.
I felt it a couple of times when I watched Feather and Adal face each other.
So just maybe four or five matches in my life that I watched and I said, wow, this is an astronomical level of tennis is amazing.
So that's what I felt.
But are you also, is part of you also thinking, I'm not sure I can compete against these guys at this level now?
Or is part of you thinking, actually, maybe I can't, but I'm determined I'm going to.
Yeah, I'm not sure.
But what's the mindset?
That's what I was saying, like in terms of transition, you know, mentally, because, you know, I'm aware of what's happening.
You know, I mean, I'm aware that these guys are my best level now, their best level now, they're better.
Okay, that's the reality.
I mean, for most of my career, you know, the visualization practice, the techniques that, you know, brought me to the level of the mental strength and self-belief and the achievements that, you know, I have always believed in things that are almost impossible to achieve.
And I knew that the message that I tell myself or the signal that I give to myself, the words that I'm telling myself internally and what I verbalize is sent out to the universe and it comes back in the same way that you send it.
So I was always trying to be very cautious and it's not always possible to be very positive and optimistic, obviously.
But I was trained from a young age to think greatly about myself and to nurture the self-confidence because that's going to eventually, whether it's sport or anything else in life, bring you the rewards and allow you to chase your dream.
And basically not settle for any boundaries.
And my childhood was boundaries all over the place.
Come from a country that was war-torn, sanctions embargo, tennis, zero tradition of tennis in our country.
So most expensive sport, the scarcity and poverty of my family and all the other families in our country, most of the families.
And so I picked the the most expensive sport and it's and so 99% of the people were obviously laughing at us.
And when at us, I'm saying us because primarily my father and I and my father, you know, I...
I thought you were wasting money.
But both of my parents, they've done, you know, I cannot never repay them for what they've done for me enough.
But my father believed very oftentimes more than I believed in myself.
So that's why I say us.
But, you know, so going back to the point, yes, I understand the power of the thoughts, but at the same time, there's a biology, there are things that are happening.
And I'm, you know, 38 going into 39, and the wear and tear is real.
And I believed that to some extent I'm a superman that can never injure himself, that can never be weak, etc.
But, you know, I got a slap from reality the last couple of years, and it's not like I'm paying the price, but I'm just getting to know this new challenge.
I have two words for you.
Yeah.
Tiger Woods.
So Tiger Woods, absolutely peerless golfer.
Number one in the world.
Right.
Ding went through a very different trajectory to your story, but he went through a lot of stuff, which meant he plunged to number 1100 in the world.
And there's a brilliant video.
I think Nike did it.
It's a mashup video of everyone riding him off.
He's finished.
He's done.
He'll never win again.
No, Tiger Woods, they're laughing at him, right?
And then he wins the Masters in 2019 against all expectations.
He takes all the young pups down.
Do you think, like, you know, next year, the year after?
Suddenly at Wimbledon.
I think I've done that already the last couple of years.
Well, no, you have.
23.
Yeah, but 24, actually the Olympic Games.
Do you think there could be a few years perhaps where you don't win and then you win again?
And is that in your makeup to do that?
So to your point, yes, I do have more doubts that I can win slams, particularly against these two guys.
But at the same time, I know that while I'm still active and when I enter in the court, you know, I don't care who is across the net.
I always believe I'm better and I believe that I deserve to win and I'm going to do everything I can do to win.
So bottom line is that one.
I'm nurturing still the winner's mentality.
And I just hope, and this is one of my primary goals, is to maintain the body in shape that is.
If I can be reassuring, you're not in bad shape.
I'm not in a bad shape.
If you want to know what a out-of-shape body looks like, Exhibit One is staring you in the eyes.
Oh, no, you're right.
I expected worse.
I have my pinned tweet on my ex-account is Cristiano from a last interview saying, Yeah, I can see you have good abdominals.
Yeah.
And I say thank you.
And it's had 200 million views.
So 200 million people think Cristiano Ronaldo said to me, my abs were great.
I'll take it.
I'm not going to.
I'm not going to split up you.
US problem.
I don't know if it's US or UK studio.
And I I think your glass table is quite high.
So you're kind of like intelligently hiding what you don't want to display on the TV.
It's pretty good.
I'll have you know, I've only played one pro tennis player on television.
It was Serena Williams.
Check the video.
That's all I'll say.
Okay.
At one stage, she screams, oh God, you're good.
About my tennis, I hasten to add.
Wow.
And it is quite something.
Do you listen to that before you do your interviews?
I just watched it this morning before I knew I was seeing it.
That's great.
It sounds like a good motivation.
I think you should watch it.
It could get you going.
But see, I find your mind, because I think your mindset is very similar to Ronaldo's.
I think the pair of you have, I would say, of, I would add Michael Jordan, Pete Tiger Woods.
There are just certain people in certain sports who I think exhibit just the most ferocious mental strength and resilience, which I think you have to have to be the best of what you do.
And I think in your case, the really interesting thing for me is where that comes from.
You know, in Ronaldo's case, he was just hungry, literally physically hungry.
He tells a story of queuing up behind a McDonald's just to get free burgers because he was so hungry when he was at the Lisbon Academy.
In your case, I think it was born, and correct me if I'm wrong, but you talk about coming from a war-torn country.
You were in Belgrade as the NATO bombs were crashing down for month after month after month.
I've read that you can't even listen or hear fireworks without this giving you slightly traumatic PTSD.
To go through that when you're a young guy as you were, just take me back there for a moment.
What are your most vivid memories of that time?
Actually, it's interesting.
I didn't know about Cristiano's experience of waiting in line, literally being hungry.
I have something similar.
I was, I think, I could have been six, seven years of age.
And we had two wars in the 90s.
We had the Yugoslavian breakout war, and then we had the bombings in 99.
So between the start of the 90s, of 91, when the war started, and end of 90s, we had embargo.
I think maybe four or five years, maybe even more.
So, you know, obviously nothing comes in and comes out of the country.
And obviously, you know, the poverty level was extremely high.
Turning Adversity into Fuel00:12:37
And we were waiting in line for one loaf of bread that us family of seven or eight were sharing that day.
And so those experiences, life experiences were very real.
And that made it, that made my journey even more special in a sense that I appreciate life and everything that life has, and God has granted me with, much more because of my upbringing.
So I normally don't like to reflect on that with a great sense of, how can I say, not sadness, but in a sense, like I don't want to whine about it or complain about it because I believe that, you know, everyone wears a cross on his or her's back that he or she is meant to wear.
So my journey is my unique personal journey that I had to go through and made me who I am.
So I'm very grateful for that.
Was it easy?
No, absolutely wasn't easy.
But that was an essential integral part of who I am as a person.
And that is probably the foundation of my mental strength and resilience.
Because when you are, you know, in doubt of what tomorrow brings, not just for yourself but for your entire family and for your city, for your country, and whether you will be able to survive the next day, facing a match point in Grand Slam is not that hard.
You know, there's a great quote from a cricket player called Keith Miller, who was an Australian in the 50s and 60s.
Great all-rounder, swashbuckling character, big party guy as well.
And he flew in the Second World War in the Royal Australian Air Force, flew bombers, I think.
And when he came back, he was captaining Australia in a game, I think against England.
And the press asked him after the first difficult day for Australia.
They were struggling.
They said, you must be feeling the pressure, Mr. Miller.
And he famously said, pressure?
He said, let me tell you what pressure is, mate.
Pressure is having a meshes mid up your ass, not a game of cricket.
Right.
I mean, that's really what you're getting at, right?
Pressure for you is not a match point against Federer.
It's whether you're going to actually survive bombs coming over your head.
Right.
So it's a matter of perspective.
I agree with that.
And I think it puts things in perspective when someone says that.
But nevertheless, I still feel that pressure that we experience as athletes or you experience in your work or someone else in their work is real.
And sometimes it can help to put things in perspective, but a lot of times it doesn't.
So what do I mean by that?
I think it's important to understand that what you're going through is a real experience.
And that you not being able to overcome certain tasks and challenges and folding under pressure doesn't make you weak.
It makes you a human being that goes through that experience.
So Jordan, for example, there was one of my sporting idols that you mentioned, one of the obviously the goats of the big global sports.
He said that people remember the shots that he made.
People remember his fact, you said they never talk about the free throws.
They never talk about those shots that he missed.
And one of my favorite quotes of him, he says, I missed and I missed and I missed or I failed, I failed, I failed, and that's why I succeeded.
So a lot of the times people have this fantasy of the great sporting champions and athletes and the icons of being the faultless demigods that can do it all.
It's absolutely not like that.
I mean, I failed so many times in my career.
Actually, I almost have a 50% success rate at the Grand Slam finals.
A bit more than that.
But you've lost nearly half.
So which is not that great when you think about it.
I played many Grand Slam finals and I won 24, but I lost, I don't know how many at the moment, but anyway, quite a lot.
So the point is that you need to go through that experience because, and this is very consistent across all the fields of life.
All the successful people always say, you learn always much more from your failures than from your wins.
So in sports, what I see and what I notice, particularly with men, is that there is this a little bit of a dogmatic and stigmatic mindset about emotions.
You know, vulnerability makes you weak.
You cannot show your tears, you cannot show your weakness because then, you know, you are the prey.
You know, I disagree with that.
I believed for most of my career, for first part of my career, that that is the way to go.
But then soon I realized that, you know, you can't suppress the emotions forever.
Eventually they'll start breaking your body, your mind, or whatever.
So eventually you have to address it.
All the things that you put under the carpet.
So basically this is a little bit more philosophical in that sense.
But when you're entering on the court for me, I'm not a tennis player, Novak Djokovic.
I'm a Novak Djokovic person who has to deal with all the other things that are happening in my private life that people don't know about or should not know about, but I know about them and I am a human being that, you know, I feel affected in my heart and in my brain.
So here's a hard question, because I totally agree with you.
I had to run a newspaper newsroom of 400 journalists aged in my early 30s.
And often you'd have all sorts of terrible stuff to deal with in your life.
And you've got to walk out, you've got to exude an air of invincibility, of super confidence, because otherwise the act doesn't play as the leader, right?
So I totally get that part of it.
But did you play better when you were fueled by difficult things going on in your life or when you were really happy?
A lot of people say, like musicians, that their albums when they're happy are terrible.
But when they're tormented, they're great.
Artists, painters, same thing.
If you're honest, when have you played your greatest tennis?
At times of difficulty in your life or at times of happiness?
I would say both.
Right.
I would say both.
I respect that and I understand your point and their point.
And it's true that I have experienced, you know, when I was experiencing a lot of adversity and some difficult moments in my life, that's when I, you know, draw this strength and turn it and convert it into fuel that then helps me perform my best tennis.
which you can say that it was a kind of a storyline of most of my junior days and kind of coming into the professional tennis and kind of winning the first bunch of slams in that kind of emotion of hunger and needing to prove everybody wrong and being upset with the childhood that I had and needing to just prove to myself and others that I am,
you know, the best.
best and I can be the best and I can live these dreams from coming from that kind of environment and circumstances.
But I also, I mean, I think that it just depends.
It's quite relative and individual.
So it just depends where you draw your strength from mostly.
So I think that kind of mentality helps to, at least in my case, to a certain extent.
And then you get fed up with that.
I don't want to be drawing things from, let's say, somewhat of a negative emotion just because somebody hates me or said something or whatever.
So I'm going to prove him or them or whatever wrong.
Even though that is also a fuel, still it remains at times.
But it's more really a constructive energy, I would say.
It's more like, okay, at least at this point in my life, in the last five years, it's like, okay, I have achieved great things in this sport.
You know, probably around post-COVID time is when I entered this last phase of my career that I didn't know how and still don't know how long that's going to last.
But how am I going to feel about my career playing tennis and how am I going to balance it with family life?
Because you mentioned the fatherhood.
That's something that's extremely important to me.
So there's a lot of sacrifice that you have to do.
And I don't want to miss out on the greatest things of my family, the most important dates.
I don't want my kids to not remember me for being there.
I think a lot of us fathers that are traveling for our work understand this very emotionally.
John I was talking about it.
So that's when I realized that I have to reconstruct the way I'm thinking and reinvent myself in a sense and draw the fuel and motivation from other things.
When was the moment, if you look back so far?
So sorry to interrupt, but for me, one of the things that I want to say is one of the greatest motivations is to have both of my children be old enough to experience their daddy winning grand slams and being there.
And I have been so blessed and fortunate to experience that multiple times now.
So that for me is not a fuel or motivation that comes from a negative place in contrary.
So I feel like you can be both.
It just depends where you are in your phase in life.
When was the utopia moment for you in your playing career to date?
In other words, if I could let you relive one match, one game, one set, whatever it may be, a period of your career.
If I could let you relive it, because at that moment you felt like you were playing at the highest level you've ever played at.
What would it be?
Beginning of 2015 to mid-2016.
And what's that feeling?
Those 18 months.
We were actually reflecting on that last night with my team.
What's that feeling like?
Because you're unbeatable, right?
No one can beat you.
It's invincible.
Pretty much like that, literally.
A Superman, isn't it?
It's just a great feel.
I mean, it's a great feeling.
It's honestly, you're on the clouds.
I mean, you're just like anything you do turns to gold or anything you touch.
I mean, it just...
And not many athletes maybe experienced that for so long.
No.
So I'm blessed.
Could any other player?
I mean, let's park the goat debate.
Right.
Because that's over a whole career.
But do you think in that period, any other player in history could have beaten you?
No.
Right.
No.
No.
At that time, no.
But again, you can, what if, you know, you can maybe do comparisons and whatever.
Some amazing players, whatever, of today or 50 years ago.
But I just, when you are in your prime and then you enter this zone that is often mentioned in the psychology of the sport, where champions are talking about, you know, being in the zone, the most difficult place or state of mind to achieve, but easiest to lose.
And I've stayed there for 18 months, so I've, yeah, it was...
The Wave of Aging00:02:01
I can tell even as you're remembering it.
It's the greatest surface.
It's bringing you a warm glow.
Yeah, it's like the greatest surfing wave ever.
It's a massive wave and it never stops.
Exactly.
Exactly.
And then eventually it crashes down.
Eventually it crashes down that I had the surf.
Look, it's the cycle of life.
I like the analogy of the wave is actually for life.
It goes up and down, up and down.
Getting older hits you like a freight train or so people tell me.
Stiff joints, gym recovery, dragging on, loose skin.
Aging is cruel, but it doesn't have to win.
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Protecting What Matters Most00:15:20
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There was a British Prime Minister who, Jim Calligan, in the 70s, and he said that being Prime Minister, that early on it's like you're in a stormy ocean and you're being crashed by wave after wave after wave.
And eventually you realize it's always like that.
And so you learn to ride the waves and navigate the waves.
I imagine, I've never been in this position, but I imagine being an elite sportsman at the highest level.
That's what it's like.
Weathering the storm constantly.
And when you are riding the wave or invincibility, because at that period I had, I think, almost 20 or 19 finals in a row.
And, you know, dominating in all surfaces, in all tournaments, there was no tournament that I didn't play that I was not in the finals.
So that's also quite dangerous place to be in mentally and emotionally, if you know what I mean, because you're like, I mean, I can play every week.
I don't get tired.
I'm fine.
I'm great.
Nobody can beat me and so forth.
So your ego grows, you know, and then the natural cycle of the waves has come to the point of decline.
And then it hits you harder than ever.
Right.
And that's when I actually had the biggest injury in my career, which was my elbow.
And I operated.
I went out of the tour for almost a year and so forth.
So that was a big, you know, slap in my face.
Like, oh, wow.
Okay.
Go from invincible and then you're not going to be able to do it.
Going to invincible, but even when I, before that, big injury was coming slowly, step by step, and I was kind of masking it.
And, you know, you take tablets and painkillers and you're like, no, I just keep going.
I will not address it now.
Your body sends you signals.
You stop those signals.
And it's a vicious cycle on the highest level of sport.
And I'm sure that the athletes who play on the highest level understand this because this is super dangerous place to be in because the more you delay proper addressing of the injury, the worse it gets.
And I remember particularly one point in Wimbledon that was my always childhood dream tournament to play on and to win.
2016, I held, I won my first Roland Garrison.
I held all four slams at the same time.
And I was one of the very few players in history that managed to do that.
And I never, and I was telling all of the people around me, my wife and parents and everybody that were like, you know, maybe you should take a little break and then come back and then like, you know, because you achieved it all.
And then it's like, no, no, no, I mean, don't worry about motivation.
I'd have no issue with that.
I'm never going to experience something that I have read or heard other athletes experiencing that they said, well, you know, it comes to the point where you just feel empty.
You don't really have any.
But I was like, what is this?
Like, I'm never going to experience that.
And I experienced it a few weeks later for the first time ever.
It was a court one in Wimbledon, third round.
I was playing Sam Query.
And I think it was third or fourth set.
It was a rain interruption.
We had two rain interruptions.
The first one, my team joined me and we talked and I had a little stretch with my physio.
We went back.
I kept going.
And I was two sets to love down.
I won the third set and I gained the momentum and I felt better about being on the court.
Another rain in delay.
I go back to the isolated room and the stadium and my team comes and I'm like, guys, you just have to leave me alone.
I just want to be by myself.
And they're like, you don't need, you know, maybe we talk.
No, I just don't want to talk.
And I let the bags, everything, I didn't want to drink.
I just stared at the wall for 20 or 30 minutes.
And that's the first time I felt really empty.
And that's when I realized that, you know, all the stress and tension and excitement and anticipation, all the strong emotions that I was feeling for whatever years coming to that moment, you know, my brain has had enough.
And I just needed to reset.
And so you need to reset.
And I had to do it many times in my career where you just have to...
Did you win that match?
I lost that match.
I lost that match.
And then I had a break.
And then I came back and I skipped some tournaments.
I came back, played finals of US Open.
And then that's the year when Andy Murray ended up as the year-end number one.
And he beat me in all two arena in the World Tour Finals.
And after that match, even though I kind of lost huge gap of the points that I had as an advantage over him, and everybody thought it's going to be a piece of cake, finishing as number one.
But he was red hot on some streak of four or five tournaments, one in a row.
And I didn't care about whether I'm going to finish number one or not.
That's the kind of a stage or a condition that I had at the moment.
I was a state of mind.
I was just, I just want to re-gain the love and passion for the sport because I lost it.
So that was the case.
Extraordinary insight into what has gone on with you.
There's a great line.
You said, when I was 12, my father sat, me, my mother, and two younger brothers down at the table.
He left a $10 bill on the table and said, this is all we got.
Wow.
What a moment.
$10 sitting there.
That's it.
It was actually $10 Deutschmarks at the time.
Probably less.
Which is equivalent.
At the time, it was something like $10 or whatever.
Yeah.
I remember very vividly how that happened and when it happened and because it was one of the turning points of my life.
And I understood the message behind it from my father, which was, okay, I need you to man up.
I need you to mature earlier than you're supposed to.
I need you to maybe take the role of the kind of a second father of the home and take care of your brothers.
You really felt that.
I did feel that.
I did feel that.
And that helped me with my tennis, actually.
I mean, I always had discipline and I was so in love with tennis and so passionate about it and very lucky to encounter certain coaches and mentors and people that were very knowledgeable about sport and life in general.
So I had the very good guidance.
And then at home, I mean, because of the circumstances that we were all going through in our country, you know, there was a lot of tension.
You know, my father, he was, you know, it was a matter of survival.
My mother, she was trying to, you know, navigate everyone, clean, cook, prepare all of us, you know, the three boys plus the father and father was trying to figure out the way how we can survive as a family.
And so it was tough.
It was tough.
It was real life.
But, you know, when I look back to it now, I'm actually grateful that we went through that experience because it makes you appreciative of everything else that you have right now.
Of course.
You know, because you come from that.
How much are you worth now?
Do you know?
Approximately.
Give me a ballpark.
I don't like to talk about it, Pierce.
I don't like it.
Can I guess?
I'm north of 1 million.
Well, I reckon you're probably...
If I was a guessing man, I'd say at least 300 to 400 million.
Maybe.
Maybe, maybe more.
You know, I never, you know, we live in a very materialistic society nowadays.
The reason I'm asking.
This is not against you and this, but I'm just saying I'm not like that.
I'd never, I don't like, you know, my team and my agent, you know, I don't want to give all the information to Forbes, for example, how much I'm worth or what the investments are.
You know, it's none of their business.
Like, why should I disclose that?
For what reason?
You know what I mean?
Like, there are things that are disclosed with price money, obviously, that people know about or contracts.
But the other things, no.
Does money, I mean, just given that scene at the family table, 10 doors.
Money is important.
Money is important.
What does money bring you?
I mean, it brings you the obvious, but is it the security that money brings you that you can take care of your family?
I presume you're taking care of your family.
Money is very important and it does bring security, no doubt about it.
And it is absolutely one of the driving forces of the society of today.
And you cannot neglect the importance of the money.
But money, if money is the only thing you're thinking about, I mean, at least in my case, in my experience, obviously I'm an athlete, so for me, it's kind of a meritocracy model.
If I win a tennis match or win a tournament, I get rewarded.
I get sponsorship deals, etc.
But also, it's a lot about the mentality.
It's a lot about the brand that you want to create around yourself.
Again, I don't like to talk about this too much, but I did refuse a lot of the big brands and big paychecks in my career because I cannot represent something that I don't believe in.
And I feel like I've always tried to play a long game.
What was the biggest one you turned down?
I cannot name brands.
I'm sorry, but you know, it's actually one of the it's probably the most famous drink in the world.
So it's Pepsi.
Or Coke.
No comment.
It's 50-50.
No comment.
It's one of them.
But what was, without naming which one it was, then, but how much was the deal you rejected?
I'm curious.
It was a long time ago, so it was pretty good.
A few million.
Pretty good.
It was pretty good.
A bit more than that.
Tens of millions?
Not tens, but.
A lot.
Close to that.
Given where you were as a family, to reject that kind of money.
It takes a lot of moral fiber.
It's just, it's the integrity that I care about.
It's protecting what is valuable to you in your life.
It's as simple as that.
If I don't drink something and my kids don't drink it.
You know, Ronaldo, you mentioned that's the famous video, remember when he removed Gatorade or Coca-Cola and he put the water in, drink water.
I respect that a lot.
I respect that a lot.
It takes a lot of courage.
You know, you're similar to him in many ways because his father went to war for Portugal.
And that caused him a lot of issues with alcohol and stuff and caused him to die very young.
He never really saw Cristiano become the superstar he became.
He died just before that happened.
And when I first interviewed Cristiano, he got quite emotional about it.
Yeah.
But you both come from a kind of war-torn upbringing of no money.
I mean, it's interesting.
He was talking about his son, who's now playing for Portugal under 16s, I think, and saying the one thing he can't give him is actual hunger.
It's the one thing you can't give people.
If you're a successful person with plenty of money, you can't give your kids hunger.
You just have to hope it's driven from within, but it's never probably going to be as intense as when you're sharing a loaf of bread between eight people or he's doing the same thing.
His son, or my son, in this scenario or circumstances, that I mean, we can give our kids as we do everything best that you can imagine in this planet.
But yeah, our kids have to find a source.
They have to find that source.
Whatever the source is, wherever and whatever it is.
And again, going back to that question of whether you can only draw strength from a negative emotion, I don't think it's the only source.
You can also draw it from a lot of positive things.
It just depends how wired you are.
And these are some things you can't control.
And I'm learning that as a young father.
Like we all want to not control our children, but control the environment that they grow up in so they can have the healthiest possible environment.
They can have a healthy surrounding.
But you need to let go.
It's their journey.
It's their life.
And so my son, he's just turning 11 in a few days' time.
And he seems like he's choosing to play tennis.
So I feel excited.
Is he good?
I feel excited and frightened.
Has he got the talent?
I think he's got some good genes in him.
I don't know who's not going to be able to do that.
He's got the vicar.
I would hope he has no vaccine.
No, no, no.
He's good.
I mean, he's good.
But look, I want to be his father.
I don't want to be his coach.
But would you mind if he chose professional tennis as his career?
With all the non-mine.
With all the comparisons that would come his way?
If that's the...
I am slowly trying to introduce the world of tennis and sports and all of these things to him.
And I can't throw everything at him at once.
You know, I'm picking and choosing the right moments.
And so if this is the journey that he chooses to have, I'm going to be one million percent behind him, supporting him every step of the way in whatever shape or form.
But he's going to have, like Ronaldo's son, you know, a big mountain to climb mostly because of other people.
Right.
Right.
But if that's the way, yeah, let's go.
Let's go.
What part did A...
Wait, did Cristiano say that he would like to live to play with his son in an official game?
I didn't ask that exact question, but he said his son's very talented.
He's playing for the Portuguese national team at representative level.
He just knows he can't give him that one thing he had.
And so in the end, that hunger has to come from within for children.
So his son is, what, 16?
Yeah, he's about 15, 16.
He's a very talented player.
Playing Together as Father and Son00:04:15
No, it's quite realistic.
I mean, if Cristiano keeps going for...
They could play together.
It looks like he's going to come back together.
They could play together.
They could play together.
And you know what?
He'd still want to score more goals.
LeBron on his son, yeah.
Because LeBron James, he lived that.
So if you one day played your son at tennis in a...
Oh, I mean, that's a dream.
In a professional game.
That's a dream.
You wouldn't let him.
Play doubles with him.
You wouldn't let him win, would you?
To play against him.
Yes.
Oh, no, I don't want.
No, I wouldn't want that.
You wouldn't let him beat you.
I never let my son be aware of it.
Of course I wouldn't let him beat you.
I would kick his...
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What part did aliens play in you meeting your wife?
There's a reason I'm asking that in a very specific way.
Because you told Hello Magazine in 2023, us getting together was like science fiction.
You haven't explained what you mean.
We'd be dating it's Jelene, yeah?
Yeah.
You were 18, you married several years later, so you married young, you met young.
What was the science fiction?
That's a funny dungeon.
Now I understand where the phrase of the question comes from.
I don't recall saying there was a science fiction.
I don't even know why.
What do you think you remember?
Why did I say that?
I'm trying to feel mad.
Okay, so the way, right, what it did, but you know, I believe in destiny for sure.
So she used to play tennis, but we never met through tennis while she was playing it.
But she dated one tennis player that is a friend of mine from early days.
And it was funny because the first time I heard about her was when that friend who was in the same tennis club as me played a match for in the tennis regional tennis league and we won an important match.
He took out his jersey and underneath the jersey he had the white shirt written, Jelena, I love you.
Really?
This is for you.
And we were like, oh my God, that's so lame.
Why would you do that?
And then who is this Jelena?
And it was her.
And then she showed up afterwards and so forth.
And then we've known each other through obviously common friends for about four or five years.
And actually one of my best friends has been her friend and they went to school together.
You know, we were in a kind of similar, same company, and then uh yeah, and then we started dating.
When I went to live in Monte Carlo, she sped up from your friend, by the way and she's, yeah, she did.
You know just to make it clear please mate, don't put me on the spot here she was uh, she went to study in uh, in Italy and then we started, we started to date.
So she's basically the yeah, the only serious, like long, serious relationship I ever had.
Amazing yeah amazing yeah, I know, I mean I had, you know obviously, some few months relationships here and there, but I, she's the only truly the love of your life, truly the love of my life.
Yeah, what happened to your mate, to my mate?
Is he still your friend?
I actually spoke to him yesterday.
I really have you know.
Becoming Half Human, Half Robot00:06:32
He's uh, he's good.
You don't make he, he moved on, he moved on, he has his family.
You don't make no, he actually never.
She swapped me for a better place about really no I, I think we are both very uncomfortable about speaking.
We still remain mates, so it's good listen, i've got friends who went out with my sister, a few of them and it's still uncomfortable 40 days later.
So even though she's been very happily married for nearly 30 years.
Um, the yeah, I saw you on uh Nick Kirios' youtube channel talking about Christiana being a role model and so on, but also referencing that you use biohackers, like Gary Breker, who i've interviewed.
Actually um that, that scientific part of yeah, maintaining your form, your physique, your fitness, your health and so on you're quite into that, aren't you?
I think you're used to.
You see your body like a kind of you know, temple and you want to protect it at all for sure.
Costs, right?
Do you feel with Ai because I do that what's going to happen?
We're going to, before we fully transition to robots, we're going to have Elon Musk has kind of hinted at this we're going to have like part robot, like you could have a problem with a part of your body and it'll be robotically enhanced and you'll start to become like half human, half robot.
And could that?
I mean, could we have Novak Djokovic in 20 years still competing, but you're half robot with robotic arms and everything?
I don't want to think about that scenario.
To be honest, I'm not.
Look, I feel like AI helps, for sure, to a certain extent, but this whole thing with robots and chips installed in people.
I'm completely against that.
Have you seen the Human, His Optimus humanoid robots?
Have you seen them?
I haven't, no.
So they dance like Michael Jackson, right they?
They shoot at cars like policemen.
I mean it's, it's what happens if you lose control over them.
Well, so that's what everybody's afraid.
Well, so this is the thing.
So I did the last interview with Professor Stephen Hawking before he died and I said, what's the biggest threat to mankind?
He said, when artificial intelligence learns to self-design, in other words, think for itself, it's all over, because they'll look at us and go.
Well, these are a complete and they are obviously far more advanced than we are.
Yeah, in terms of they would just get rid of us all.
Then we have robots competing at Wimbledon.
Would you like to see that?
I don't know.
I mean yeah, you'd have a robot doing this interview.
Well sometimes, when you see Sinner and Alcaras playing nowadays, it seems like robots On Sinner, is there a cloud over him about the drugs thing?
Is it a case of that the top players get treated at a different level in relation to that kind of thing to lesser players who are not as important?
I mean, look, that cloud will follow him as the cloud of COVID will follow me for the rest of his or my career in this case.
So it's just something that it was so major.
And that when it happens, it just, you know, over the time it will fade, but I don't think it will disappear.
So there's always going to be, you know, certain group of people that will always try to bring that forward.
Do you believe him?
Look, I've known Yannick since he was probably 14, 13, 14 years of age, because his first coach, not first, but first serious coach that was working with him in those crucial years was my coach as well, Riccardo Piati.
And I used to train quite a bit at Piatti's Academy in Italy.
And I was practicing with Sinner a lot of the times when he was a junior.
And, you know, I liked him actually a lot because he was always skinny as I was and tall and grew up skiing, grew up on the mountains.
So very similar story to mine.
And he always came across very genuine, very nice, very quiet, you know, had his own, you know, world and he didn't really care too much about the lights of the society, so to say, but just he just wanted to be the best player he can be.
And I like that.
I like his mentality.
So when this happened, I was shocked, honestly.
So I do think that he didn't do it on purpose.
But the way the whole case was handled is so many red flags.
If he'd been number 500 in the world, I think he'd have been banned.
That's exactly...
Isn't that the reality?
There is the lack of transparency, the inconsistency, the convenience of the ban coming between the slams so he doesn't miss out the others.
It's just very, very odd.
Very, very odd.
And so I really don't like how the case was being handled.
And you could hear so many other players, both male and female, who had some similar situations coming out in the media and complaining that it was a preferable treatment.
Inarguable, yeah.
Yeah.
So I think essentially, I mean, I want to believe, and knowing my history with him, I think, you know, he didn't do it on purpose.
But of course, he is responsible because those are the rules.
You are responsible when something like this happens.
And so when you see someone for something very similar or same, being banned for years, and then he's banned for provisional, whatever, three months or whatever it was, it's just, it's not right.
And his name doesn't help, does it?
And it's not, he's number one in the world.
And obviously he's got named over.
Oh, right.
I mean, if you call Sinner.
No, look, I mean...
It makes it even harder.
It's not easy for him.
Obviously, and I do have a sense of empathy and compassion for him because, and I think he has handled the storm in the media that keeps on coming back every once in a while.
He's handling that very well and very maturely and very steadily.
And kudos to him for that.
But it's definitely not easy.
And in the midst of all of that, he's still dominating.
He's still playing incredible winning slams, winning leagues.
Remembering a True Legend00:03:31
So I think it's interesting.
You should interview him.
You should ask him.
He should share some of that thought process and how he has maybe used that as a fuel.
It would be interesting to I only interview goats.
Okay.
Fair.
Fair enough.
That's why you're sitting here.
Fair enough.
You've got the goat slot.
Fair enough, sir.
No, Vak, it's been fascinating talking to you.
It was enjoyable.
Yeah, you've been great to talk to.
Incredibly open.
I mean, my last question was just going to be: when you have to retire at some stage, how would you like to be remembered?
Wow, that's a good question.
One of the people that has helped me a lot with my mental strength and one of the greatest sports psychologists ever to live, Dr. Jim Lair, who worked with a lot of the champions and number ones in the world, both men and women, tennis world.
One of his main questions is, what would you want to have on your tombstone?
Yes.
It's a great question.
And so it makes you wonder, you know, makes you ask yourself, like, you know, how do you want to be remembered?
I would love, I mean, obviously the achievements and the results and the crowns and titles is something that I am very proud of.
I cannot neglect that.
I'm very proud of it.
I've worked my ass off for my entire life to get to the point where I am and to be in this discussion.
So I take great pride with that.
But I do believe my tennis father, as I like to call him, passed away, passed away a bit more than a month ago, and I was at his funeral.
It was the first funeral that I was ever present on.
And I was never at the, because of tennis and because of also my avoidance of the emotions and of the sadness, I did not go to the funeral of my great-grand-grandfather that I was very close to.
And this was the first funeral that I was present on.
And my biggest takeaway from that, other than incredible sadness and emotions that I felt, is the human connection, connections that he has left behind and established throughout his life and his career.
How he touched people's hearts who were not just there on that funeral but who were also in the tennis club, which was a post-funeral little event that was created in his honor.
The way people talked about him, it was not about tennis and what he has achieved as a player or as a coach or who he has coached and etc.
It was about who he was as a person, how he conducted himself with people, how he changed the lives of the young people or anybody who he was coming close to.
And that's how I want to be remembered.
How Novak Touched Hearts00:00:59
I want to be remote.
So imagine a tombstone.
Yeah.
And it says, here lies Novak Djogovich.
What do you want it to say?
The man who touched people's hearts.
That's great.
I want to cry right now.
I think I've realized what I want on my tombstone.
I love that.
Thank you for that.
I love that.
You helped me come to that realization.
I'm here to help.
Novat Novak.
Thank you.
Thank you very much.
Thank you.
Great interview.
Thank you very much.
Amazing.
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