“Face of a Professional CON MAN” Epstein Leaks Cause ‘Constitutional Crisis’ For Royals
As more revelations emerge about how Prince Andrew may have lied about severing all ties to Jeffrey Epstein, the royal family could be facing a ‘major constitutional crisis’, according to royal biographer Tom Bower. He joins Piers Morgan alongside socialite Lady Victoria Hervey, royal commentators Kinsey Schofield and Katie Nicholl and California Democrat congressman Ro Khanna, who gives his insight into the Epstein Files. Piers Morgan Uncensored is proudly independent and supported by: OneSkin: Get 15% off OneSkin with the code PIERS at https://www.oneskin.co/ #oneskinpod Birch Gold: Visit https://birchgold.com/piers to get your free info kit on gold. Oxford Natural: To watch their full stories, scan the QR code on your screen or visit https://oxfordnatural.com/piers/ to get 70% off your first order when you use code PIERS. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
Transcriber: nvidia/parakeet-tdt-0.6b-v2, sat-12l-sm, and large-v3-turbo
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Andrew's Alleged Crimes00:09:43
Virginia says she ran to get a Kodak fund saver camera from her room, returning Katie to Epstein, who took the infamous snap of her and Andrew.
And then it says, chillingly, Virginia writes that when they returned to the house, Maxwell told her to do for him what you do for Geoffrey.
Virginia then writes of how Andrew was particularly attentive to my feet, which he allegedly licked.
I think the whole thing is such a joke.
You know that actually people believe the girl that said, oh, I have four days to live.
And she, you know, the girl just made up stories.
King Charles must, at some stage, have decided that he was going to believe his brother.
Prince William must have decided, what can I believe at all?
That Prince Andrew says.
We are really approaching, in my view, that along with Prince Harry and all the rest of it, a major constitutional crisis.
Well, ask Hash Batal to release the tapes.
We have it.
Virginia says nothing will ever happen with Andrew.
I'm allowed to do it, but it's something I have not thought about.
They were so outraged at the idea that we're even considering a pardon or any leniency for Maxwell.
Well, she is convicted of abusing these young girls.
He remains the Duke of York.
People want to see him stripped of his titles.
They want to see him absolutely ostracized.
Jeffrey Epstein curated VIP contacts and made extensive efforts to burnish his proximity to power.
It's one of the reasons we're told that the Epstein files remain censored.
Innocent people may be tarnished by association.
That's one important dividing line in the scandal: who remained close to Epstein after his initial conviction.
This is what Prince Andrew famously told Emily Maitlis, then with the BBC.
I said to him, I said, look, because of what has happened, I don't think it is appropriate that we should remain in contact.
And by mutual agreement during that walk in the park, we decided that we would part company and I left, I think it was the next day.
And to this day, I never had any contact with him from that day forward.
Was that visit, December of 2010, the only time you saw him after he was convicted?
Did you see him or speak to him again?
No, that was that 2010 was it.
Or newly leaked emails this week tell a very different story.
Prince Andrew told the convicted child sex offender, quote, we are in this together, as reported in a documentary on Five this week.
Unshakable evidence.
The Duke of York lied to the British public about severing ties with billionaire paedophile, Jeffrey Epstein.
What this shows is that he brazenly lied when he appeared on Newsnight.
We're talking about him looking at the camera and lying to the nation and to the world about his relationship with a pedophile.
Revealing worrying details of an intimate relationship.
The email says, I'm just as concerned for you.
Don't worry about me.
It would seem that we're in this together.
But most condemning of all is the date.
Well, the revelations have shone a global spotlight on the British royal family for all the wrong reasons.
Again, the question is, what can the palace do about it?
Well, joining to debate this is the royal biographer Tom Bauer, the socialite and friend of Prince Andrew, Lady Victoria Hervey, the royal correspondent and author Katie Nicoll, and the host Kinsey Schofield on Unfiltered Kinsey Schofield.
Welcome to all of you.
Tom Bauer, there was so much about Prince Andrew's interview with Emily Maitlis for Newsnight that looked very fishy in the moment.
And now a lot of it is unraveling through these emails which are coming out through the US Senate, through their committee's scrutiny of the Epstein files, which are getting leaked.
But it's incredibly damning, isn't it, this latest leak?
it goes right to the heart of what contact Andrew had with Epstein post his conviction for being a paedophile.
And he made it clear that that walk in the park was the last time he had any contact with him and that was clearly a lie.
Well, I think it's more than that, Piers.
I think that what it shows is that when he decided to do the interview with Newsnight, he clearly rehearsed how he was going to explain the photograph in the park and everything and went into that interview with a clear determination to lie, not only clearly about his relationship with Epstein, but also his relationship with Victoria Virginia Goufrey and the rest of the things.
And what is remarkable is looking at his face as he lies, it is the face of a professional con man, a professional liar.
And that is what's so worrying.
I mean, this is the Duke of York.
This is the royal family willingly going onto TV and lying to the world about his relationship.
And there was no compulsion for him to do it.
And that not only throws everything he said about his relationship with all the other people into stark relief.
You can't believe a word he says.
But also, it puts into question also the whole nature of the royal family.
I mean, King Charles must at some stage have decided that he was going to believe his brother.
Prince William must have decided, what can I believe at all that Prince Andrew says?
So we are really approaching, in my view, that along with Prince Harry and all the rest of it, a major constitutional crisis.
Right.
And Casey Nicol, the reality is we don't know what else is going to come out, do we?
We've seen some messages from Andrew's ex-wife, Sarah Ferguson, which obviously led to her being dropped by a number of charities because again, it showed that after the public denunciation of her relationship with Epstein, she carried on the contact with sort of apologising to him, clarifying she hadn't called him a paedophile and so on.
Again, very damaging.
And I've always said about this scandal, I think you can have plausible deniability if you genuinely had nothing to do with him after his conviction.
You could say, look, this guy was, as he was, a very wealthy, very well-connected, very sociable guy who would hook people into these very lavish dinner parties.
All the great and good used to flock down there.
So you can't really blame individuals for just being part of that scene, right to the point where he gets a conviction for paedophilia.
And at that point, you either drop him like a ton of bricks, as any rational person would do, or you continue to consult with him and maybe benefit financially and all the rest of it.
And that appears to be what Andrew has done, what his ex-wife did.
And that's the big crisis that Tom alludes to correctly.
The question is, what can the royal family do about this?
Because of course, you know, what's the nightmare?
They cut him off, they cut him adrift, they cut him loose, they strip him of his titles.
Many British people would think that's the right thing to do.
But then you've got a loose cannon who, you know, currently is right up there on the ladder for the throne of this country, who may decide to do a tell-all book.
And God knows what that could contain.
So it's a real dilemma, isn't it, for the royals?
What do they do?
It is a dilemma.
You've got a king who doesn't like confrontation, who doesn't really want to fall out with his brother for the exact reasons, Piers, that you just cited.
I mean, he is a loose cannon, as is the Duchess of York.
We know that she's got a lot of financial problems.
What's to stop her from writing a book and telling more that might cause greater embarrassment for the royal family?
But it puts the king in a very difficult position.
I was told recently and sort of reported this in a recent Vanity Fair article that it has caused some tensions in fact between the king and William who we know are very much aligned.
We saw them at an engagement together last week.
They are very much on the same page.
Got a strong monarchy moving forwards here.
But there is a sense that Charles has perhaps been a little too accommodating of his brother.
We've seen him at Easter services.
We've seen him at Christmas.
We saw him recently at the Duchess of Kent's memorial service looking, you know, very jovial and a very uncomfortable looking Prince William.
So I think optics wise, that is damaging.
I don't agree with Tom that we're on the verge of a constitutional crisis.
I think Andrew is so far removed that it's not a constitutional crisis, but it is optically not great for the royal family.
I think perhaps the king needs to take a firmer stance.
We cannot see him outside the church at Sandringham on Christmas Day.
Cannot see him at Easter service.
They need to distance him from the royal family.
Problem is, Andrew doesn't want to be distanced.
Right.
No.
I mean, we saw that incredibly uncomfortable exchange with him and William on the steps at that recent funeral, where you could see William just really trying to stay very straight-faced as Andrew was kind of clowning around very inappropriately.
But you knew what he was probably thinking.
This is an opportunity for me to be seen with the future next king, you know, in a way that looks like we're all one big happy family.
But I don't think that's the case at all.
Lady Victoria Hervey, last time you came on, you were very passionate about your defense for Prince Andrew.
You thought he'd been completely set up over the Virginia Duffray scandal, that he was an innocent guy, et cetera, et cetera.
But in light of this email, which clearly shows indisputably that he lied to Emily Maitlis about his contact with Epstein, how comfortable are you now about the veracity of his other denials?
Trump and the Email Trail00:14:59
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I'm still very comfortable with everything that I know because I've actually heard the recordings of Virginia saying nothing ever happened with Andrew, which Kash Patel will not release right now.
So like for me, everything is the same.
As far as that email, you know, I think the timeline we need to look, we need to look at.
So the Virginia photo came out February 2011.
One day later, he sends that email.
Now, at that point, Andrew does not know that Jeffrey Epstein has, like, he doesn't know the story, how Epstein has basically set him up.
So, you know, I might have done the same thing if suddenly I see myself in a weird picture where I've never even been on that landing in that, the top of that house.
He'd never even been upstairs.
Well, hang on.
Let me just, hang on.
Let me stop you.
Let me stop you there because I actually, I interviewed David Boyes, who was Virginia Dufrey.
I want you to get me on, David Boyce.
I could.
Well, David Boyce, as you may know, is one of the most eminent and successful criminal lawyers in North America.
Well, he's not a criminal, and that's an outrageous defamation, which if he sees it, he may sue.
Okay, not a criminal.
No, I wouldn't.
I don't think you should be flippant about calling people like him a criminal when he's not.
He's a criminal attorney, and he's brilliant at what he does.
And he was emphatic about a number of things when I interviewed him several weeks ago, one of which was the veracity of that photograph, which they had tested very meticulously.
He said there is absolutely zero doubt that photograph is genuine.
Come on, we know the photo is not real.
We have phone reports.
We don't.
That's the point.
Ask Kash Patel to release them.
The photo is not real.
It didn't happen.
I am telling you what the criminal ram the defense.
This is do.
Just to be clear, David Boyes does not make up stories.
How do you know that?
So just...
Because he's one of the best criminal attorneys in America.
He doesn't make up stories.
Piers, so David Boyes told someone that I know, I don't want to say his name because he was at David Boyce's big birthday party in Vegas with him.
And David admitted to him that he thought Virginia was a liar.
Now, if you have no independent verification for that, that's not what he said to me.
This guy is a billionaire and he's not going to be lying to me.
Like, anyway.
So there's multiple things that girl is a fraud.
Okay.
She's now dead.
So we can't have her in a courtroom, unfortunately.
But as far as that goes.
Or it may be.
Or it may be, Victoria, that you are completely deluded.
No, I'm not.
I've heard the tapes.
Your desire to support Prince Andrews in light of these emails that show he lied to Emily Mae.
It looks pretty hollow now.
Piers, I wouldn't support him unless I could really back it up.
And I absolutely.
What are you backing it up with?
Well, ask Kash Patel to release the tapes.
We have it.
Virginia says nothing ever happened with Andrew.
It's real.
Well, we have a perfect person to ask, which is Representative Rogana, who is joining me now from the United States.
Rogan, great to have you back on Uncensored.
Look, one of the reasons the conspiracy theories are still flying about this is because we don't know everything that's in the Epstein files.
They haven't all been released.
They were going to be.
And the Trump administration suddenly put the shutters on them for reasons that we don't know.
Now we're getting kind of leak after leak after leak.
And they're very damaging, whether it's Peter Mandelson who had to resign from his position as the UK ambassador to United States, or whether it is Sarah Ferguson or now Prince Andrew.
They're all getting caught up in leak by leak.
When do you think we'll get to a place?
You've been very strong on this.
When will we get to a place where everything is out there so that people like Victoria Hervey will have the answers to the questions that she keeps raising?
Well, first of all, I don't know why so many British got entangled up with Jeffrey Epstein, the first political casualty was the British ambassador.
The reality is the reason we need the release of the Epstein files is that will answer everyone's questions.
It will be justice for the survivors, but for those who think that it's exonerating, it will be exonerating.
And that's why transparency is the best medicine.
Now, right now, we literally have Congress shut down.
The greatest democracy in the world, the Capitol Hill, is shut down because they don't want to have a vote on the Epstein files because they know the day they start voting in Congress, we will get the 218 signature to force a vote on the Epstein files.
Yeah, I mean, it's interesting.
Again, talking about David Boyce, Virginia Dufray's lawyer, he handles a lot of the victims of Epstein.
And he said to me that he'd seen nothing incriminating against Donald Trump, but that he had seen incriminating evidence against a number of other men.
He said not all of whom would end up with a criminal conviction, but he certainly felt a number should face criminal prosecution.
And it does go to the central issue about Epstein, which is there are up to 2,000 victims here, and yet no man has yet been held properly accountable.
Epstein killed himself.
I believe that's what happened.
Others think there was something more nefarious.
But actually, no other man involved in the scandal has ever been prosecuted or convicted.
That's why there's such anger and outrage in America over this.
It has nothing actually to do with being against Donald Trump.
I mean, Thomas Massey and I are leading this with Marjorie Taylor Greene, Lauren Goldbert, Nancy Mace, and many people in the MAGA base who want this release.
You have 13 and 14-year-old girls who were raped.
Then some of them were farmed out, other rich and powerful men.
We know that rich and powerful men, at the very least, covered up for Epstein, at the very least advocated for leniency for Epstein.
And the question people are asking is, why are the rich and powerful having such impunity in America?
And it's a broader issue with 70% of Americans losing the sense of the American dream that the government isn't working for them.
And that is why this has really been something that has brought Americans together.
The only person who has been convicted is, of course, Ghillane Maxwell, who recently had the Supreme Court reject her appeal for her sex trafficking conviction.
Donald Trump was slightly ambiguous when he was asked if he would consider pardoning her.
I had Speaker Johnson on a few days ago saying emphatically that should absolutely not happen.
What is your view about a potential pardon for Ghillane Maxwell?
Absolutely should not happen.
I think one of the reasons the speaker feels that way is he heard from the survivors.
I mean, he spent, to his credit, two hours with them.
And anyone who hears from the survivors will know that these women went through the most horrific crimes.
And they were so outraged at the idea that we're even considering a pardon or any leniency for Maxwell.
She is convicted of abusing these young girls.
And that's why, you know, the speaker is a person of faith.
We came into Congress together.
We actually have a friendship on a personal basis.
And I just wish that he would allow for a vote on the Epstein files.
I think you'd get 300 people in Congress who'd vote for it.
I agree with you that there may not be this kind of smoking gun on Donald Trump.
But the country wants to have accountability.
And Trump is the one who ran on having this released.
And it could be something that brings the nation together.
Yeah, I completely agree.
Just finally, what should happen with Prince Andrew?
Some of the alleged crimes happened on American soil.
He has denied them all, of course.
We know he paid millions of dollars to Virginia Duffray in a case to settle that case with her.
What should happen to him?
Should he face potential prosecution, do you think, in the United States?
Should he face potential attempts to extradite him?
Well, he should be treated like any other British national would.
I mean, look, I don't want to judge his guilt or innocence until there's full evidence and there's a process for that.
But what I don't understand is why the royal family would be defending him or not distancing themselves from him.
It seems the royal family has their own challenges, and this is not a good look for continuing a tradition that has some justification in British history.
You would think you would not want this look as a modern British royal family.
Roy Carner, really appreciate you coming back on our sensor.
Thank you very much.
Thank you, Piers.
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Go back to the panel.
Kinsey Schofield, you're in America.
What do you think the American reaction is to the royal angle of this Epstein scandal?
I mean, I don't think it's as impactful as it is there, obviously, because we have Bill Clinton.
You know, we've got allegedly Donald Trump.
And I'm not saying that the President Trump did anything.
I'm just saying that there are relationships there with this individual.
So I think we're more fixated on our own political figures and public figures when it comes to Jeffrey Epstein than we are with Prince Andrew.
But I mean, I think it's the same.
We want to see those guilty held accountable, whether it's Prince Andrew who says he's innocent or Bill Clinton or whoever else could potentially be involved.
That's the ultimate objective is that we just want to make sure who is involved has to pay for it.
Yeah.
I mean, Tom Bauer, you know, Donald Trump has done some good things.
I think this peace deal in the Middle East is a sensational triumph for him.
I hope it lasts, but it's certainly what he's achieved this week is remarkable.
But he came in, as Roe Carner said there, on a ticket of transparency.
And it looked like I had people on the show from his administration talking us right up the hill on this, saying, we're going to release everything, release everything.
And then suddenly all the shutters came down.
What do you think is really going on here?
Well, the truth is, Piers, that a lot is going on, but we don't know what's going on because the cover-up, I don't think, just is in the Congress with these files.
Publishers don't want books on Epstein.
Television studios don't want films about Epstein.
There is a sort of a general feeling that it's on an uncontrollable time bomb.
And I think that going back to Andrew, that is what's so fascinating, that he actually, in my view, would have taken advice that the best way is to extricate himself by lying, not realizing that there was an email trail to expose him as an outright liar.
And I think, I still think, will lead to some catastrophe for the royal family, because you can't lie so brazenly, get away with it.
But as for President Trump, look, he's got a huge amount on his plate.
In the end, he probably is hoping that somehow the last Congresswoman will get in and make her vote and the file will be released.
And a lot of his enemies undoubtedly will be tarnished.
And he'll be pleased by that.
But I think there's a lot more in this story than even we realize because the cover-up is so enormous.
Yeah, I think that's right.
Victoria, apparently, according to these leaks, and this is a leak from the Virginia Dufray book I wanted to talk to you about.
We have to be talking about them in that context.
Prince Andrew was entitled, it says, and saw having sex with his abuse accuser, Virginia Dufray, as his birthright.
She will say in her shocking From Beyond the Grave autobiography, Virginia, who wrote the book before her death, age 41 in April, is also expected to claim the Duke said thank you in a clipped British accent after the alleged encounter when she was 17.
I think the whole thing is such a joke.
You know, that actually people believe the girl that said, oh, I have four days to live.
And she, you know, the girl just made up stories.
And it's probably not her fault.
Like, she was abused by her father and her father's friend when she was seven years old.
And that obviously had a huge impact on her life.
Shocking Claims of Abuse00:04:24
But then to take that out on a member of the royal family, you know, also getting back to that email when he said, I haven't seen him again or I haven't spoken to him.
You know, an email is not speaking on the phone with someone.
So that can also be taken out of context.
Yeah, but like, you know, we all do things.
I think, you know, as well, you know, with the Duchess stuff, I think, you know, the whole story behind her email, you know, she was being threatened by him.
He wanted to take her down and her family.
And so, of course, like, Piers, you have children.
I know you have a small daughter.
I've met her in LA.
Wouldn't you, like, you would want to, if someone said he was going to come after your kids and everything, yeah, I would probably write a grovelling email as well.
Of course, but I think the problem is where you're a very high-profile public figure and you make definitive statements to the world.
Also, you know.
Well, hang on, let me finish.
You're cutting off all contact and then within days you're sending emails to that person which completely contradict the public statements.
That's the problem.
Well, surely the problem really is, Piers, that if you're in that exalted position of being in the royal family, you have a responsibility to say the truth.
You have a responsibility of the position.
But he probably.
And what he did, Andrew, was he invited that interview.
He didn't have to do it.
He wanted to go out and lie because he thought that was the way to escape responsibility for his behavior.
And that is what really is so indictable about him.
And I go back to this issue that I think a lot more will come out when the Epstein files finally are released.
And I fear that Andrew is going to be even more trouble than he is at the moment.
Can I speak again, please?
Yeah, you can quickly.
I want to go to Katie, but yes, go on.
No, so yeah, like, look, if I've said, okay, I haven't seen that person, spoken to them, or whatever, it was an email.
But it's just like in the email, it's not talking to someone.
But I think it was a natural reaction.
And as far as the Duchess with her email, you have to understand the royal wedding of Kate and William was one month later.
And she did not want to make a fuss.
She didn't want to cause any stress on the royal family.
She wanted the Jeffrey Epstein thing to go away.
Someone was threatening me.
I would be exactly the same.
And yeah, bring on this Virginia book.
You know, bring it on.
Well, I'm going to come to, let me come to Katie Nicoll, because there's more leaks coming out now from this book.
So it's all dropping as we're doing this.
It says we can reveal that Jeffrey Epstein, Victor, Virginia, will outline the three occasions she says she was trafficked to have sex with Shamed Andrew in Nobody's Girl, the title of the book, released October 21st.
And shockingly, she is expected to tell how Ghillaine Maxwell is said to have lavished praise on her the morning after the first encounter saying you did well.
You did well.
Well, let me finish, please.
The Prince has.
No, no, sorry.
Victoria, allow.
Katie to respond, please.
It goes on to say, Virginia says she ran to get a Kodak fund saver camera from her room, returned and gave it to Epstein, who took the infamous snap of her and Andrew.
And then it says, chillingly, Virginia writes that when they returned to the house, Maxwell, now serving a 20-year trafficking sentence in a U.S. jail, told her to do for him what you do for Jeffrey.
The 400-book page book contains a description of how she ran a bar for the Duke, but he didn't stand it long enough as he was keen to get to the bedroom.
Virginia then writes of how Andrew was particularly attentive to my feet, which he allegedly licked.
And then we get to the thank you and the clip British accent.
So look, a lot of stuff coming out, which is going to be very uncomfortable reading for Andrew.
This book is going to get a huge amount of global attention.
Just to be clear for something that Victoria said, you claimed that she was abused by family members.
Gillen was not even in London that weekend.
She had her mother's.
Hang on, I'm coming to Katie.
Just another claim.
Well, you're talking of things that may or may not be made up.
You've made allegations against Virginia Dufrey's family and abuse, which there is no evidence for.
So I want to make that clear that that and there is no evidence.
Well, we'll see.
No, no, no.
Global Attention on Leaks00:02:02
It's a five-hour.
She did a five-hour interview under oath where Virginia, she admits that.
We will see it, but the family deny it.
This comes with Katie.
It's fair.
Sorry, can I just say, I think this is shocking to hear.
We're hearing it live, Piers, as you're reading it out coming into the show.
I'm just going to park that for a moment and just go back to where we started this, which was with a blatant lie by the Duke of York.
That's the context of this conversation.
And therefore, hang on, hang on.
Hang on.
Just to clarify, this is all breaking in the sun.
Haven't given them credit, but they've got the leaks on this and they're running it now tonight.
So I just want to clarify where this has come from.
They have got leaks from the book.
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Potential Constitutional Crisis00:06:01
Just to put into the context of all of this that, you know, this stems from this lie over this email over Andrew's alleged last meeting with Epsy, which we now know was not his last contact.
I mean, Victoria says he forgot.
don't forget things like that.
It was contact and therefore it puts a question and a shadow of doubt over what he's said as far as I'm concerned in the past, which is of course to deny all allegations.
To bring this back to Tom's point, constitutional crisis or not, it's hugely embarrassing for the royal family.
It puts them in the headlines and will continue to do so as these leaks continue.
And of course, we have the publication of the book to look forward to.
It's going to make for some very, very uncomfortable reading for the royal family.
And, you know, he is not allowed to use that HRH title.
He remains the Duke of York.
When you look at his popularity in the polls, where he's right at the very, very bottom, people want to see him stripped of his titles.
They want to see him absolutely ostracized.
They do not want to see him in public again because they recognize how damaging he is to the brand that is the British monarchy at a time when actually they're trying to project a much more positive image on the international stage.
Yeah, and Kinsey, you know, I remember Prince Andrew being very vocal in the build-up to the case with Virginia Duffray.
I'm going to clear my name.
I want my day in court.
He couldn't have been more emphatic.
And then right at the last minute, bang, it all gets settled for many millions of dollars, up to $11 million, it was reported, to make this go away with no admission of guilt.
But who gives someone they claim they've never met $11 million to end a case?
Now, it was reported this came after pressure from the Queen, his mother, the late Queen, at the time, because she realized the danger of a senior member of the royal family taking the stand under oath, being asked about absolutely anything to do with their lives and how this could be very damaging.
But ultimately, you can't get away from Andrew saying, I'm going to clear my name.
I want my day in court.
And then a massive check.
And then the dramatic series of events afterwards, where Virginia Dufray ends up taking her life and now has this book written from beyond the grave once you penned before.
You know, it is an ongoing, very big scandal.
And, you know, as far as what Tom said, it could be constitutionally damaging.
We just don't know.
There's still a long way to go with this.
We don't know what else may come out.
So, you know, I think that I hope it isn't, but it could be.
I mean, I think Tom said this earlier, but the Prince Andrew chaos on top of everything that continues to go on with Prince Harry and Meghan Markle combined, yes, I do think that there could potentially be a constitutional crisis.
If you add it all up, Prince Andrew alone, I don't think so.
I think he's been written off.
People no longer associate him with the British royal family, but they don't want to see him there standing next to somebody at church.
You know, King Charles is the head of the Church of England.
It feels icky, guilt by association for a lot of the public.
But the problem with stripping him of his titles is then you elevate the chaos.
And it's now months, if not years, of that back and forth and that in the newspapers.
They're in a really difficult position.
I don't know.
I don't have the solution.
I wish I did, but I don't know what the solution is.
No, I think it's very complicated.
You mentioned Megan and Harry there.
She's been out.
Well, they got a humanitarian of the year award, which always makes me laugh because I can't think of two less humanitarian people on God's earth.
But anyway, they got it in New York and she's been popping up, giving her views.
Now, the Netflix deal we know has been dramatically reduced in value, but she compared the situation to the Obamas and said that, you know, the fact that it's not quite as big is actually a sign of strength.
I mean, A, the delusion to compare themselves to a former American president, but isn't the reality, and tell me if I'm wrong, but isn't the reality that their star is plummeting pretty quickly in America?
And the problem for the royal family, again, with that, is that you see with Harry trying to get back in and see the king and trying to ingratiate himself with the British public again, is that they know the only currency for them that works, that is worth anything, is their association with the royal family.
And the longer they're distant from them and not around them and not part of that scene, the less it seems people are interested.
Yeah, but somebody needs to tell Megan Markle that because when she sits on a stage with Fortune and says that she spent the first few years in the United States healing, obviously we're going to assume that she's talking about her experience with the British royal family.
And, you know, so she's got to keep her mouth shut and she's got to change her attitude.
I do think that their star is falling.
The chaos we've seen over the last few weeks with Megan Markle, you know, it's been a very convenient distraction from the fact that Prince Harry's African Parks charity is crumbling.
Senebale has been a huge loss for him this year.
Humanitarian of the year.
I mean, look at what he's, what have happened, has happened to his charities.
So yeah, their star is crumbling.
I think that they look very anxious and desperate right now.
And that's not a great look for the British royal family either, because they insist on using their titles.
Yeah, I couldn't agree more.
We've got to leave it there.
Great panel.
Thank you all very much.
Much appreciated.
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