Uncensored - Piers Morgan - “MEANINGLESS Declaration!” State of Palestine Recognized By UK | Mike Huckabee vs Husam Zomlot
Aired: 2025-09-25
Duration: 46:46


=== Unintended Consequences of Statehood (14:26) ===

[00:00:00]  Get a map out and show me where the boundaries of this Palestinian state would be.
[00:00:05]  Many people think that the two-state solution is a Palestinian demand.
[00:00:09]  Wrong.
[00:00:10]  You know that the 1967 borders is 22% of the historic Palestine.
[00:00:16]  Was it advisable to categorize the relationship between the United States and Israel as like a marriage?
[00:00:23]  That was not an allegory.
[00:00:25]  It was an analogy.
[00:00:26]  It is a story to make a point.
[00:00:29]  Israel is not just a bunch of allies or a friend.
[00:00:32]  It is, in fact, a very close partner.
[00:00:34]  Even if your partner misbehaves, it is your responsibility.
[00:00:38]  Israel would not be able to do anything without the U.S. direct.
[00:00:43]  Never again.
[00:00:43]  We should allow our children to be slaughtered in front of the world like this.
[00:00:47]  Entire families wiped out.
[00:00:49]  Men executed in front of their families.
[00:00:51]  Entire neighborhoods wiped out every day.
[00:00:53]  You tell your partner, cool down, come down.
[00:00:57]  The UN is a pointless talking shop of wasted potential, which does nothing to end wars, at least according to Donald Trump.
[00:01:03]  The president's barbarous hour-long speech was perhaps deliberately a powerful antidote to what many around the world see as a hugely significant week for the United Nations.
[00:01:12]  Britain's decision to formally recognize Palestine as a sovereign state at this week's General Assembly is the most historic.
[00:01:19]  The UK once ruled Palestine under mandate from the UN's predecessor.
[00:01:23]  It was the first to commit to making it a state for the Jewish people.
[00:01:26]  Now it says that it's a state for the Palestinians too, recognized under law.
[00:01:31]  Well, Israel's responded with fury and indignation.
[00:01:34]  Shortly, I'll speak to the Palestinian ambassador to the UK.
[00:01:37]  We begin with Ambassador Mike Huckabee, the U.S. ambassador to Israel.
[00:01:41]  Ambassador, thank you for coming back to Uncensored.
[00:01:43]  I appreciate it.
[00:01:44]  Thank you, Pierce.
[00:01:45]  Great to be back with you.
[00:01:47]  The first question right off the top, your reaction to so many countries, led by the UK, but France, Canada, Australia, 160 states in total now, recognizing a Palestinian state.
[00:02:01]  We're disappointed as a United States in our allies, people that we are great friends with, because first of all, it's a violation of the Oswald Accords.
[00:02:12]  That's problematic.
[00:02:14]  But more importantly, it has had the opposite effect of what I think they wanted to see happen.
[00:02:20]  The first thing that happened, as Secretary Rubio has repeatedly pointed out, it just ended negotiations with Hamas.
[00:02:27]  That froze absolutely stone cold.
[00:02:30]  The second thing, we've been desperately trying to work some resolve to the impasse between a financial crisis between the Palestinian Authority and Israel.
[00:02:40]  There are some issues that are very harmful to the Palestinian Authority.
[00:02:44]  Quite frankly, it's not good for anyone.
[00:02:47]  Remittance money should go back to the PA, but there's some unresolved issues.
[00:02:53]  We were making progress, and I've been going back and forth between Ramallah and Jerusalem trying to work on it.
[00:02:59]  When this happened, that ended the discussion, and we're back to zero on that.
[00:03:05]  And the third thing that happened is that it has emboldened Israel to start talking about declaring sovereignty over parts of Judea and Samaria.
[00:03:14]  So all of those things, I don't think, were the intended consequences of the decision by countries like France and the UK to unilaterally declare a Palestinian state, but that's the result of it.
[00:03:28]  I mean, there's something you haven't mentioned there, which I think is also highly significant, which is Israel's attack on Doha.
[00:03:37]  Now, Qatar is an American ally.
[00:03:40]  It is the home of the biggest American base in the Middle East, 10,000 or more servicemen and women there.
[00:03:47]  Surely, as the ambassador, you must have been outraged by what Israel did there to one of your allies.
[00:03:55]  I don't know that I would say that the U.S. was outraged.
[00:03:59]  We knew just barely in advance of it that notification was given to the White House.
[00:04:04]  But as the Prime Minister of Israel made very clear, it was their decision and theirs alone.
[00:04:09]  It was not something the U.S. was a part of, did not participate in, did not know well enough in advance to really make an impact on it.
[00:04:19]  It was a decision they made.
[00:04:21]  And whether or not it was the best decision, time will tell.
[00:04:25]  I mean, you talk about the negotiations with Hamas coming to a screeching halt because of the announcement of the state of Palestine being recognized by so many countries.
[00:04:35]  But many would say that this attack in Doha, which was directly targeting the Hamas negotiators who were at that moment gathering to consider a proposal for a peace settlement, it failed.
[00:04:51]  It didn't kill any of the people it was targeting.
[00:04:54]  It killed actually a Qatari official, was one of those who died.
[00:04:58]  So it was a failure as an attack.
[00:05:02]  But even if it had been successful, how on earth would anyone expect peace negotiations to continue if the very people on one of the two sides are being attacked with a view to killing them all?
[00:05:16]  That to me made absolutely no sense.
[00:05:19]  And if you're on the Hamas side and you are charged with trying to negotiate any kind of settlement, surely that would be the moment you would shut up shop.
[00:05:28]  Because actually, if you're going to get killed, what's the point?
[00:05:33]  Well, Pierce, let's go back and just remember.
[00:05:35]  Hamas had already pretty much shut those negotiations down.
[00:05:39]  They were pretending that they were open to things, but they really weren't.
[00:05:42]  That's why Steve Witkoff left.
[00:05:44]  It's why the secretary made his statements.
[00:05:47]  It's why everything had chilled.
[00:05:48]  There's nothing was really moving.
[00:05:50]  Hamas was making unreasonable demands that were never going to happen.
[00:05:54]  The president gave them a pretty clear mandate.
[00:05:57]  President Trump said, let all the hostages go, not some.
[00:06:01]  Don't dribble them out.
[00:06:02]  Let them all go.
[00:06:04]  And you have to leave.
[00:06:05]  You have to give up any hope that you're going to continue to rule Gaza, to have a future in it, because you're not.
[00:06:12]  And that's been a pretty consistent message, even from the Arab League, who unanimously voted for exactly the same thing.
[00:06:20]  So let's be clear who Hamas is.
[00:06:22]  You know this to be true.
[00:06:24]  Hamas is the murderous barbarians who butchered people on October the 7th.
[00:06:30]  They continue to hold hostages.
[00:06:32]  They continue to torture them.
[00:06:34]  They torture their own people.
[00:06:35]  They put them in harm's way knowingly and threaten and even in fact do shoot them if they try to get out of harm's way when Israel is announcing that they're going to hit a particular terrorist target.
[00:06:47]  So these are not people that even on their best day negotiate in good faith or have any intention of doing something that is moral.
[00:06:56]  They just are incapable of that.
[00:06:58]  Right.
[00:06:59]  But is deliberately targeting the negotiators on the Hamas side with a view to killing them as they're considering a proposal?
[00:07:09]  Is that acting in good faith?
[00:07:11]  I mean, surely that is not acting in good faith.
[00:07:14]  And America, of all countries in the world, given it happened in the country that is one of their allies, you could argue their biggest ally, given the presence of so many American military there.
[00:07:26]  Surely America must have, but you said you had no forward knowledge.
[00:07:30]  Okay.
[00:07:31]  But once you knew what they'd done, surely the United States, somebody somewhere, you or Donald Trump or somebody would have got on the phone to Netanyahu and said, what the hell are you playing at?
[00:07:43]  I want to repeat, Prime Minister said it was their decision.
[00:07:47]  They did what they thought would be instrumental in getting rid of some of the people of Hamas who are still making the big decisions.
[00:07:55]  That's been problematic for this entire process.
[00:07:59]  But Israel is trying to find a way to bring this to a conclusion.
[00:08:04]  For 22 months now, plus, they've had hostages being held.
[00:08:08]  We still have two Americans being held.
[00:08:10]  They're deceased, but their families want their remains back.
[00:08:13]  And Hamas has not budged.
[00:08:16]  They really have not been serious about coming to any reasonable way to end this because they don't want it to end.
[00:08:22]  If they let all the hostages go, there's nothing left holding them to any point of power.
[00:08:28]  And that's where this situation has devolved.
[00:08:33]  Whether Israel made a good decision, whether or not it was successful, one for the history books.
[00:08:39]  But I know that the U.S. has had the position that we have respect for a sovereign country, Israel, who is our ally, our partner.
[00:08:46]  And we recognize they're going to do what they think will help them get those hostages, all of them, out of Gaza and out from under the clutches of the monsters of Hamas.
[00:08:57]  Well, look, to be crystal clear, obviously I believe fervently the hostages should all be released.
[00:09:03]  It's outrageous that they haven't been.
[00:09:05]  And I view Hamas as a despicable terror group.
[00:09:08]  And the fact they won't release hostages reaffirms my view.
[00:09:11]  Not that I needed it reaffirmed after October the 7th.
[00:09:14]  But given what is going on now in Gaza City, how comfortable are you, Ambassador?
[00:09:20]  Overnight reported Israel killed 22 more people, including nine children, in strikes on Gaza City.
[00:09:27]  A total of 51 people killed across Gaza today, according to the Hamas-run Health Authority.
[00:09:34]  And I accept that you will doubtless quibble with their numbers, but we do know from the sheer scale of attacks going on there, it is highly probable that these casualty numbers are pretty accurate.
[00:09:47]  It seems to me that Netanyahu and his government have taken a view of just leveling as much of Gaza as they can, rendering it uninhabitable with a view to what Smodrich and Ben Guevir and these very hard-right members of that cabinet keep saying publicly, which is that the war aim is no longer just about trying to defeat Hamas, which they failed to do, or release the hostages, which they failed to do.
[00:10:12]  The new war aim is actually to dispel Palestinians from Gaza completely.
[00:10:19]  And they've been brazen about this.
[00:10:21]  And that to me, as somebody who supported Israel's right to defend itself, in fact, said it was their duty.
[00:10:27]  And I said that for many, many months.
[00:10:30]  But I can't sit back and in all good conscience say when people are openly talking about ethnic cleansing, which is a war crime, that this should not be happening.
[00:10:41]  Can you defend it?
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[00:11:13]  Well, let me dispute the idea that it's ethnic cleansing.
[00:11:16]  I don't think that that is the goal.
[00:11:18]  This could have ended October the 8th of 2023, as we both know.
[00:11:22]  It should have ended then.
[00:11:24]  This should not have gone on as long.
[00:11:26]  Israel has tried pretty much everything.
[00:11:28]  They've gone soft.
[00:11:29]  They've gone hard.
[00:11:30]  They've done ceasefires.
[00:11:32]  They have done massive amounts of humanitarian food poured into Gaza more than has ever been poured into a country in the midst of a war.
[00:11:41]  No one's ever seen this level of humanitarian aid.
[00:11:44]  Now, most of it doesn't get to the people who need it because Hamas steals it, sells it, makes money off of it.
[00:11:49]  So it's been a train wreck in that regard.
[00:11:53]  I would also dispute the figures because it's such an unreliable source when we depend upon Hamas to give us the numbers of what's happening.
[00:12:02]  But I would concede there's absolutely suffering going on in Gaza.
[00:12:06]  There's deprivation.
[00:12:08]  There's all kinds of horrific things happening.
[00:12:10]  And if Hamas had even a tinge of conscience, they would just decide that there's no future for them and there's no future for the people as long as they continue to stay.
[00:12:22]  Let the hostages go in this war.
[00:12:25]  They've been offered exile.
[00:12:26]  That's a pretty generous offer.
[00:12:29]  And I don't believe that it is the intention of the Israelis.
[00:12:31]  You may have mentioned a couple of people, but I can tell you it is not the intention of the current government to force displacement from people.
[00:12:40]  They have said repeatedly, it's certainly the position of our president, that nobody should be forced to leave Gaza.
[00:12:47]  People should be given a choice if they wish to leave, but nobody should be forced out of Gaza if they wish to stay.
[00:12:54]  Where will they live if the place is literally obliterated?
[00:12:59]  It's going to be a very challenging environment.
[00:13:02]  Most of it is rubble.
[00:13:04]  It's going to require an enormous level of temporary housing.
[00:13:08]  But there have been other situations around the globe following a war when people were able to live through what is the aftermath and a complete mess.
[00:13:18]  But when I was in Gaza and talked to people there, most of them said they wanted to stay.
[00:13:24]  But what they did not want was Hamas having anything to do with the future.
[00:13:28]  Every single person I spoke with had had a family member who had been murdered by Hamas, someone of their family.
[00:13:35]  So there's no love there.
[00:13:36]  And in fact, if anything, there is utter contempt for what they've been through.
[00:13:41]  They don't blame the U.S. Interestingly, they didn't hate the IDF.
[00:13:45]  I would have expected them to, but their contempt for Hamas was palpable.
[00:13:53]  Do you believe in the idea of a two-state solution, ultimately?
[00:13:59]  You know, I think it depends on where the two states are going to be.
[00:14:03]  You know, let's go back to 1948 when the British mandate was first divided.
[00:14:08]  And at that time, Jordan had control of most all of what we now call the West Bank or Judea and Samaria.
[00:14:15]  They had most of Jerusalem.
[00:14:18]  They had pretty much all of that land in the Jordan Valley west of the Jordan up into Jerusalem.
[00:14:24]  Israel had a tiny little sliver.

=== The Oslo Accords Violation (10:17) ===

[00:14:26]  Here's my question.
[00:14:28]  If a Palestinian state was the goal, how come they didn't put one there in the 20 years that they had to do it?
[00:14:35]  And in 2000, I mean, let's go back to when Bill Clinton was negotiating and Ahud Barak was the prime minister of Israel, offered Yasser Arafat 96%, 96% of the territory.
[00:14:51]  And he walked away from it and said, nope, that's not enough.
[00:14:55]  So it's interesting that we keep hearing as if it's Israel's fault.
[00:15:00]  There's not a two-state.
[00:15:02]  But the truth is, the Palestinians have not taken advantage of what has been offered to them in the past.
[00:15:10]  And now the question would be, get a map out and show me where the boundaries of this Palestinian state would be.
[00:15:17]  In what part of all of Judea and Samaria is it going to cover?
[00:15:24]  And how is it going to be marked off and how will it provide security that the Israelis can feel comfortable about, especially after what they've been through with October 7th and the barrages of attack from Iranian proxies, Hezbollah and the Houdis.
[00:15:39]  So taking your view of it that you've just articulated, what would you find acceptable as a two-state solution?
[00:15:49]  I don't know that I have a solution for it.
[00:15:52]  I mean, there have been iterations that have been offered, but I'm not seeing one that is practical based on the current political climate.
[00:16:00]  I think there are going to have to be some serious discussions as to will there be a complete end to what most Western countries call pay for slay.
[00:16:10]  In the PA, it's called the Martyrs and Prisoners Fund.
[00:16:15]  But you can't continue to fund terrorists and give them rewards for carrying out terrorist acts that kill people.
[00:16:23]  You can have a curriculum in schools that incite violence against people who are in Israel.
[00:16:29]  Those are things that have to be dealt with.
[00:16:32]  There just must be some definite, complete changes in the way that people look at each other.
[00:16:40]  I'd love to see there be a solution that everybody is happy with, could live with, and people live in peace.
[00:16:47]  But it's not something that can be arbitrarily apportioned because some people aspire to it.
[00:16:54]  It will require some serious heavy lifting.
[00:16:57]  And quite frankly, it's going to take some creative thinking as to how do you do this in a secure way so that people are not going to be under the threat of another October 7th.
[00:17:08]  But it sounds to me that you're not 100% opposed to the concept of a Palestinian state.
[00:17:16]  Well, what I'm not opposed to is people living together in peace.
[00:17:20]  There are a lot of people who...
[00:17:21]  No, I understand that, but I'm talking more about the principle of the Palestinian state.
[00:17:27]  Because, I mean, I found it interesting that you haven't just ruled that out, because obviously what the UK and other countries have been saying this week is they want to establish the starting block for a Palestinian state.
[00:17:38]  And you're not saying that can never happen.
[00:17:41]  So is there not a meeting here of minds where actually, if the conditions are correct, then you would support it?
[00:17:50]  Well, it's not my place to do it.
[00:17:52]  I'm an ambassador.
[00:17:53]  I don't get to make the policy.
[00:17:55]  I carry it out.
[00:17:56]  I tell people I'm not the chemist making the medicine.
[00:17:59]  I'm the pharmacist that gets to dispense it.
[00:18:01]  It'll be President Trump's decision on what our policy is.
[00:18:04]  But here's what I can say emphatically, because this is the U.S. position.
[00:18:09]  This move to unilaterally declare a Palestinian state.
[00:18:13]  And Pierce, that's a little different than simply saying there ought to be one.
[00:18:17]  These European countries and also Canada, Australia, and others, are just saying we're going to acknowledge and declare a Palestinian state.
[00:18:26]  Well, you just can't do that.
[00:18:27]  That's a violation of international law.
[00:18:29]  It's a violation of the Oslo Accords.
[00:18:32]  To do that without bringing Israel into that discussion and participation is only making things less likely to ever have a Palestinian state.
[00:18:41]  So if the goal is to have one, I'll tell you these European countries have gone about it in the polar opposite way of it being effective.
[00:18:50]  What's your message for the British Prime Minister Keir Stahlma, who led the charge this week?
[00:18:56]  I would say to him, it's probably best if you said maybe we were premature with this.
[00:19:02]  Let's work toward a better picture of first getting the hostages out.
[00:19:06]  Let's put our focus on all hostages coming out, resolving the war in Gaza, and then let's talk about the future, both in Gaza as well as in Judea and Samaria.
[00:19:17]  That's what I would say to him.
[00:19:18]  I think they jumped the gun way ahead of themselves, and it really has created an additional problem that nobody, and I mean nobody needed right now, while we still have hostages that are being tortured by these monsters in Gaza.
[00:19:34]  Finally, Ambassador, I want to play a clip of you talking about Israel as being the wife of the United States.
[00:19:40]  It's gone viral, as you know.
[00:19:41]  Let's take a look.
[00:19:43]  This is a nation that is the most resilient I've ever seen on earth.
[00:19:48]  It may sound a little bit this afternoon as if I'm almost speaking on behalf of Israel rather than the U.S., but I want to explain that part of my advocacy in our relationship is because if you came to my house tonight for dinner and you came in and you said, oh, Mike, we like you.
[00:20:08]  We really think the world of you.
[00:20:09]  We just enjoy being with you.
[00:20:12]  So excited to be here with you and have dinner with you.
[00:20:16]  But your wife, we can't stand her.
[00:20:20]  We don't like her a bit.
[00:20:22]  I hope she's not going to be at the table.
[00:20:24]  I would say, well, she will be.
[00:20:26]  You won't be.
[00:20:28]  Get out.
[00:20:29]  Because if you were to insult my partner, you have insulted me.
[00:20:37]  I guess my question about that, because it has gone viral, is it advisable to basically categorize the relationship between the United States and Israel as like a marriage?
[00:20:53]  Well, first of all, let's be clear.
[00:20:55]  You're a smart guy, Pierce.
[00:20:56]  You know a lot about literary devices.
[00:20:59]  That was not an allegory.
[00:21:01]  It was an analogy.
[00:21:02]  In other words, it is a story to make a point, which is exactly what I did.
[00:21:06]  I think it's a very valid analogy.
[00:21:09]  It would be a terrible allegory, but as an analogy, it's illustrative and it works because my point is simple.
[00:21:16]  Israel is not just one of a bunch of allies or a friend.
[00:21:21]  It is, in fact, a very close partner.
[00:21:23]  We have a unique relationship with Israel in intelligence, military, civilization, technology, agriculture, energy.
[00:21:31]  It goes on and on.
[00:21:33]  My point is that when people are hyper-critical of Israel, they're hyper-critical of our partner that the U.S. has decided that is a very important partner to us.
[00:21:46]  So we don't take it lightly that someone is condemning and calling our partner genocidal or running an apartheid state or guilty of war crimes.
[00:21:56]  And that's why some of the actions that you've seen this administration under President Trump take have been pretty strong.
[00:22:02]  I can't imagine how they could be any stronger.
[00:22:05]  Why have we taken that?
[00:22:07]  For exactly the reason that I spelled out in the analogy is because you insult our partner, you're insulting us.
[00:22:15]  And finally, I'm about to speak to Hussam Zomlot.
[00:22:19]  He's the Palestinian ambassador to the UK.
[00:22:21]  He's been listening to our interview.
[00:22:24]  What message do you have for him?
[00:22:27]  Well, I say I hope that we can see some resolution on the financial impasse.
[00:22:31]  I'd love to see that payments toward those who have committed acts of terror would not just cease in name, but in practice, and that there will be a full-throated denunciation of it and a full-throated demand for all hostages to be released in Hamas to be let go.
[00:22:49]  And then I would say, call upon the European friends, those who have decided to stand with you for a declaration of a Palestinian state, and tell them you appreciate it and that there may come a day in which you will really wish that to happen.
[00:23:05]  But right now may not be the best time, and it cannot happen unless Israel is involved in those discussions, as per Oslo.
[00:23:12]  So let's hold off on making a declaration which is frankly meaningless.
[00:23:17]  It does not have substance.
[00:23:18]  It's symbolic.
[00:23:19]  And let's work toward real solutions that give everybody a better future.
[00:23:24]  Because right now, they're suffering in the Palestinian Authority.
[00:23:27]  My visits there, not only with government officials, but also with business people, it's a dire situation.
[00:23:33]  39% unemployment, people not getting paid.
[00:23:37]  The U.S. doesn't want to see the PA collapse financially.
[00:23:41]  It's not in anyone's good and best interest.
[00:23:44]  So that would be my message.
[00:23:47]  Is it a mistake, you mentioned the PA, not to allow the head of the PA into the United States to be at the UN this week?
[00:23:55]  I think it was the right decision, and it was one the president made and the secretary obviously affirmed.
[00:24:01]  And the reason was it was because this is a runaway train with all the European nations, including the UK and France and others, who are just going against everyone's best advice from the US and Israel and saying this is not a right moment.
[00:24:16]  You need to be putting pressure not on Israel, need to be putting the pressure on Hamas.
[00:24:21]  Let's end what's going on in Gaza for everyone's sake.
[00:24:24]  Let's get those hostages out and then let's have these conversations.
[00:24:28]  So it was one way to say we're not just a little displeased as a United States, we are quite displeased with the direction that this has gone.
[00:24:37]  Ambassador Huckabee, once again, thank you very much for your time and coming back on our sense.
[00:24:41]  I do really appreciate our conversation.

=== Buying Gold Amidst Uncertainty (02:09) ===

[00:24:44]  Thank you, Piers.
[00:24:44]  Great to be back with you.
[00:24:47]  U.S. national debt is more than $37 trillion.
[00:24:51]  And these are uncertain times of the global economy.
[00:24:54]  It's enough to make you think maybe now would be a good time to buy some gold.
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[00:25:09]  They created something special.
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=== Ceasefire and Correcting History (15:51) ===

[00:26:53]  Well, as I said, I'm joined in the studio by Hussam Zomlot.
[00:26:56]  He's the Palestinian ambassador to the UK, listening to every word of what Ambassador Huckabee had to say.
[00:27:01]  What's your immediate response?
[00:27:05]  I have no response, to tell you the truth, because I would respond if I had what was the U.S. vision, the U.S. policy.
[00:27:13]  What I heard was what was the Israeli policy and narrative and preferences and terminology, Judea and Samaria.
[00:27:23]  So forgive me, Pierce.
[00:27:25]  Pass on.
[00:27:26]  When you hear the analogy, as you put it, of America and Israel having a form of a marriage where Israel is the wife, albeit an unpopular wife, what did you make of that?
[00:27:41]  Well, I don't want to comment on that.
[00:27:44]  But in general, if he means by our wife a partner, even if your partner misbehaves, it is your responsibility, especially if you are the more senior partner in this relationship.
[00:27:57]  Israel would not be able to do anything without the U.S. direct, direct agreement, instructions.
[00:28:05]  If your partner is misbehaving, it doesn't mean you have to kick everybody else.
[00:28:10]  You kick your other partners, your other friends.
[00:28:12]  You let your partner wreak havoc in the neighborhood.
[00:28:15]  No, you tell your partner, cool down, come down.
[00:28:18]  So this idea that your partner is absolutely immune, untouchable, above the law, comes before Britain and France, comes before Qatar and Saudi Arabia, comes before Palestine and Jordan and Egypt, comes before the UN and international global order, is exactly what got us to the situation.
[00:28:39]  I did feel that the attack in Doha was indefensible even if you're the United States.
[00:28:47]  Because how could they defend an attack on an ally?
[00:28:51]  Somewhere that I was in Qatar for the state dinner for President Trump a few months ago, and I saw the warmth of the relationship between him and the Emir of Qatar.
[00:29:01]  And I would imagine the Emirates being reported is furious, understandably, as are many other leaders in the region.
[00:29:08]  And yet neither President Trump nor Ambassador Huckabee will come out and condemn it outright, which I'm disappointed in.
[00:29:16]  You should be, and everybody else should be.
[00:29:20]  Because the U.S. is literally, literally undermining its own standing, its own allies, only because of that unruly partner.
[00:29:30]  It's unbelievable how much this is literally diminishing the role of the US that is and has been expected to be a leading force in a world that is governed by rules.
[00:29:42]  That's why the US hosts the UN in New York.
[00:29:45]  It's very regrettable.
[00:29:46]  And I assure you that bombing of Qatar was not just about Israel wanting to bomb Qatar or kill the Hamas leaders that were there at the invitation of the US and Qatar and Egypt to deliberate the final touches of a ceasefire.
[00:30:05]  It is unheard of that you actually bombed the negotiators.
[00:30:08]  Put that aside.
[00:30:09]  Put it aside.
[00:30:10]  But why did Netanyahu and Israel choose to bomb them?
[00:30:14]  Because they did not want a ceasefire.
[00:30:17]  This whole argument.
[00:30:18]  So that was my take on it.
[00:30:19]  Of course it is.
[00:30:20]  Of course it is.
[00:30:22]  You cannot say you want a ceasefire and then try and murder all the people who are gathering to go over the plan for the ceasefire.
[00:30:31]  Of course it is.
[00:30:32]  Why did Israel bomb Iran right in the middle of June, on the 12th of June, if I remember, for that 12 days of exchange?
[00:30:41]  There was the UN conference that you saw only yesterday and the day before.
[00:30:46]  It was supposed to be in June, where the world comes and resolves this issue.
[00:30:50]  They go and bomb, so they derail, divert, and they did it again in Qatar.
[00:30:55]  The policy, the strategy is no ceasefire.
[00:30:59]  They are not interested in the hostages.
[00:31:02]  I assure you, hostages would have been out long ago had we gone in the direction of the first ceasefire, let alone all the other proposals.
[00:31:11]  So why is Netanyahu doing this?
[00:31:13]  And we need to understand the situation so we can actually find a solution.
[00:31:18]  Netanyahu and Israel cannot stop this war.
[00:31:22]  They will not stop this war unless forced.
[00:31:25]  And that's why, right this moment, in the middle of a genocide, what we are busy with, Piers, is actually peace.
[00:31:32]  We are so busy trying to go in a different direction than Netanyahu and Israel.
[00:31:37]  Why, look, the obvious thing that everybody comes back to on the pro-Israeli side and from the American administration is release the hostages.
[00:31:48]  And to me, until or if Hamas come under enough pressure, probably from the Arab world to do this, to release those hostages, it will always give cover to Israel to say, this is why we can't stop.
[00:32:03]  If the hostages got released and Israel continued to devastate Gaza, I think the world would turn even more against them very, very quickly.
[00:32:12]  But a lot of people I speak to are conflicted because they say it's awful what's happening in Gaza.
[00:32:18]  It's terrible how many civilians are being killed.
[00:32:20]  But what about the hostages?
[00:32:22]  Do you think why is there not more pressure internally on Hamas to release these hostages?
[00:32:28]  Do you think since the 8th of October until today, almost two years, you think Israeli actions correspond to them wanting the hostages?
[00:32:37]  Really?
[00:32:37]  Seriously?
[00:32:38]  Or even for that matter.
[00:32:39]  That's not my point.
[00:32:40]  Or even for that matter, targeting Hamas.
[00:32:42]  No, but that wasn't the point I made.
[00:32:44]  I actually believe, for what it's worth, and I said this to the ambassador, I actually believe that you should look at what people like Smodrich and Ben Gavir have been saying and understand they have always had a bigger plan, which clearly now involves expelling Palestinians from their homes in the millions.
[00:33:01]  And I view that as ethnic cleansing.
[00:33:03]  So I've been clear about that.
[00:33:04]  And I think people that warned that was the real plan from some of these ministers all along have been proven, I'm afraid, right.
[00:33:13]  However, the point I was making to you, you haven't quite directly answered because it's important, I think, that if Hamas released the hostages and Israel did not then have a ceasefire and did not show they wanted peace, I think the opprobrium against them from the world would be utterly overwhelming.
[00:33:35]  But as long as those hostages remain in those tunnels being tortured and being mistreated in the most cruel and barbaric way, it gives Israel the cover that they may well want for other things.
[00:33:48]  It gives them the cover.
[00:33:49]  Why is there not more pressure internally from the Arab world to get Hamas to release the hostages?
[00:33:56]  Actually, what we know from the Qataris, the Egyptians, and our partners in the region, that very moment when the Hamas leaders were in Qatar, there was a significant amount of pressure on them to actually sign the American presented proposal.
[00:34:11]  Boof!
[00:34:12]  Netanyahu decided to completely and abruptly destroy that.
[00:34:16]  And in any situations like this, you...
[00:34:18]  Which I think was ridiculous and stupid.
[00:34:20]  I mean, but the reason you've just articulated.
[00:34:22]  Yeah, yeah, because the last two years have been absolutely bluntly clear.
[00:34:29]  And you and I have had many conversations about this.
[00:34:32]  And you know, for many years, we were talking, but not heard.
[00:34:37]  Not heard.
[00:34:38]  And for many years and decades, we've been talking and not seen.
[00:34:42]  So finally, we are being heard and seen.
[00:34:45]  And I want you to know that from the very beginning, everything the Palestinian people and the Palestinian leadership have been doing is trying to sort this out in a statesman-like with a vision.
[00:34:58]  And I'm talking about from day one.
[00:35:00]  Once the Nakba happened and our ethnic cleansing happened in 1948, you're talking about ethnic cleansing now.
[00:35:07]  This is a pattern.
[00:35:11]  The first political vision of the Palestinian people and the leadership at the time was one democratic state for all of the people, be it Palestinians, Christians and Muslims, be it Israeli Jews, one democratic state.
[00:35:25]  And as we moved on, the argument from Israel and its allies, including the US, because the Palestinians might be more in number, because of the demographic threat, you see the racist side of that, Israel will never ever accept a one democratic state.
[00:35:41]  They will never accept Palestinians to be part of that state because they will vote and will have the right to vote.
[00:35:46]  And therefore, one day, a Palestinian by the name of Khalil will be the president.
[00:35:53]  Okay.
[00:35:54]  Down the line, we had to find a formula to actually achieve that end of the conflict and peace.
[00:36:01]  And then the formula was the two-state solution.
[00:36:03]  Many people think that the two-state solution is a Palestinian demand.
[00:36:08]  Wrong.
[00:36:09]  Wrong.
[00:36:11]  The two-state solution was a Palestinian painful concession.
[00:36:16]  Why?
[00:36:17]  Because do you know that the 1967 borders that the ambassador was talking about now is 22% of the historic Palestine?
[00:36:25]  And do you know that it's less than half of what the United Nations gave to the Palestinian state in 1947, the partition plan, Resolution 181?
[00:36:37]  Yet still, in 1988, the Palestinian leadership, Yas Arafat, the latest Arafat, the founder of our movement and the father of the nation, announced the establishment of a Palestinian state, declared on the 22%.
[00:36:53]  Since then, we signed Oslo, and we have been so insisting on implementing that very painful compromise in every sense.
[00:37:01]  And I've just heard the ambassador, the U.S. ambassador, saying that Oslo stipulates that there will not be a Palestinian state.
[00:37:08]  Really?
[00:37:09]  An international law does not stipulate a Palestinian state.
[00:37:12]  Seriously, this needs reality check.
[00:37:14]  Oslo was an interim period for five years that must lead and yield a state of Palestine.
[00:37:20]  That was the agreement.
[00:37:21]  And we entered into these interim arrangements.
[00:37:24]  In these five years, Israeli settlements in the West Bank, the occupied West Bank, quadroubled.
[00:37:31]  Quadroubled.
[00:37:33]  Today, in the middle of genocide, the most painful, painful experience any nation can go through, genocide.
[00:37:41]  What we are thinking about and acting towards is peace and is putting an end to all this.
[00:37:49]  And what you saw in London two days ago, the announcement about the recognition of the state of Palestine, is part of our vision towards the future.
[00:37:57]  Okay, so on.
[00:37:58]  But on that point, so it's a very significant week.
[00:38:01]  Clearly, it's historic.
[00:38:04]  But if Israel and the United States simply totally ignore it, particularly the United States, how meaningful is it?
[00:38:12]  I mean, he was saying, the ambassador, it doesn't mean anything because they don't recognize it.
[00:38:17]  You know, where does it get you?
[00:38:20]  Where does it get the Palestinian people?
[00:38:23]  Yes, okay, the UK has said we recognize the state of Palestine.
[00:38:26]  But if the United States doesn't, and Israel doesn't, how meaningful is it?
[00:38:31]  Well, I've heard President Trump many times saying that he really want to be the man who make peace in the Middle East.
[00:38:38]  He really wants to be the man to be remembered as the one who actually brought an end.
[00:38:43]  Which I'm sure is true.
[00:38:44]  Okay, okay, okay.
[00:38:45]  So let's work on that, number one.
[00:38:48]  Number two, that only Israel and with it America, but the rest of the world is with you and I, Piers.
[00:38:54]  It's not a small measure.
[00:38:55]  And remember, the anti-apartheid movement.
[00:38:58]  Remember the apartheid regime of South Africa.
[00:39:00]  Actually, the last two countries that supported that regime was Israel and the US.
[00:39:06]  And remember that once you have the rest of the world, including the UK, because the UK plays a significant role.
[00:39:12]  You mentioned in your introduction that the UK, Britain, ruled Palestine in the time of the mandate, 1919 until 1948, and unfortunately, have issued that Balfour Declaration that has cancelled us as a nation and since then have been part of, not preparing us for statehood, but of the Nakba of 1948.
[00:39:36]  To come to a moment and me personally as an ambassador to be part of and witness this moment that the UK recognize the Palestinian people's right to self-determination and sovereignty over their land is not a small measure and it is in the right direction because, number one, it's about Britain more than it is about Palestine.
[00:39:54]  It corrects history, it begins to correct history.
[00:39:58]  It is a moment of leadership for Britain to say that yes, we acknowledge the mistakes of the past and we shall right the wrongs.
[00:40:06]  That's good for peace and then from there we move.
[00:40:09]  This is merely the beginning.
[00:40:10]  This is a foundational step on which we will.
[00:40:13]  We will build the peace up against the Smotrish and the Netanyahu and the Benvirs and i've been following some of your remarks of late focusing on Smotrish and Benvir please, Piers.
[00:40:23]  This has been a successive Israeli governments who embrace the settlement enterprise.
[00:40:28]  This is, let's not be reductionist and just reduce it to two individuals to do individual fair enough.
[00:40:33]  We need to bring that project to an end, the colonial, expansionist project that believes they have a green card to bomb every single country around them.
[00:40:44]  This has to end.
[00:40:45]  How do you end it?
[00:40:46]  You end it, number one, by ending the genocide.
[00:40:49]  And i'll tell you the, the pressure, the energy we have through our friends worldwide, including the Uk, is gonna show very soon you will hear in.
[00:40:59]  But you have to also get to peace.
[00:41:02]  Realistically, to get to any kind of lasting peace, you're gonna have to get a situation where the Israelis believe they're secure, that their people are secure, that they're not gonna get bombed by the Houthis, by Hamas, by Hezbollah funded by Iran in many cases, that they're not gonna live their own lives in perpetual fear of rockets coming over.
[00:41:27]  It is a two-way street.
[00:41:28]  To get you know again, I've used this analogy before.
[00:41:31]  It's not exactly the same situation, but there are many parallels.
[00:41:35]  Northern Ireland, you know they had to get to a situation where both sides compromised and they did eventually get there.
[00:41:43]  But there's got to be a compromise yes, on your side, that the Israeli people can have their security.
[00:41:49]  You accept that.
[00:41:50]  Of course everybody must have security.
[00:41:53]  But the question is, is security only something for the Israelis, because I always hear security.
[00:41:59]  No, it should be both ways.
[00:42:00]  Yeah, I always hear Israelis require security when in fact, it's our security that has been infringed upon over the decades.
[00:42:07]  It's us who lost two-thirds of our nation in the Nakba, all the way to a genocide now in Gaza and the settler terrorism.
[00:42:14]  That also many times important to remember, but important to recognize, if I learned.
[00:42:22]  Important to recognize and acknowledge that at the time, at the time that hundreds of thousands of Palestinians were being displaced in 48, hundreds of thousands of Jews were also being displaced.
[00:42:32]  Not by Palestinians, not by Palestinian.
[00:42:33]  No, no, I didn't say by Palestinians.
[00:42:35]  I said in neighboring Arab countries, that was going on too.
[00:42:38]  So, again, to take a more rounded picture, that from their side caused them a lot of hurt too.

=== Security vs Human Rights (03:22) ===

[00:42:45]  You accept that?
[00:42:45]  Yeah, yeah, but we'll need to read a bit more about that historic moment and what happened there and the role of Israel and some groups.
[00:42:52]  Let's not go in that.
[00:42:54]  No, but I'm trying to explain why they feel the way they do about the history.
[00:42:57]  Let's focus on now.
[00:42:59]  And then we can drill backward.
[00:43:01]  Because, you know, our energy must be directed at stopping this madness, this carnage, the mass murder of people and the mass destruction.
[00:43:11]  I'm from Gaza, as you know.
[00:43:12]  I mean, what Israel is doing in Gaza in the last few days is not even...
[00:43:16]  I cannot begin to describe it in comparison to already the genocide that the world has been watching over the last two years.
[00:43:22]  What they're doing is just beyond human comprehension and description.
[00:43:26]  However, I want to go back to the issue of security.
[00:43:29]  Number one, I told you we deserve security.
[00:43:32]  And if I learn anything as a Palestinian myself, of the last two years, that's one thing.
[00:43:38]  We must work hard to ensure the security of the Palestinian people.
[00:43:42]  If I fight for a state, it is for that reason, to make sure that we provide security.
[00:43:47]  Never again should we allow our children to be slaughtered in front of the world like this.
[00:43:52]  Never again, that entire families wiped out.
[00:43:54]  Men executed in front of their families.
[00:43:57]  Entire neighborhoods wiped out every day, day in and day out.
[00:44:00]  Hospitals, schools, what have you.
[00:44:02]  We have to provide security for our people.
[00:44:04]  And the one thing that we have responsibility towards is that this will never happen.
[00:44:10]  How do we do that?
[00:44:11]  It's either by building military, strong military, to defend our people, or build a state that has an arm in the international system that can use international judicial institutions like the ICJ and the ICC to provide deterrence, legal deterrence, and protect our people.
[00:44:29]  And this is what we're doing.
[00:44:30]  We're not really racing in the military side and buying more weapons or building bigger armies.
[00:44:37]  We are racing to be part of the international system.
[00:44:39]  That's number one.
[00:44:40]  Number two, about security.
[00:44:43]  Do you, and I'm really, this is a conversation.
[00:44:45]  Do you Pierce really believe that security is an outcome of more armies, more guns?
[00:44:52]  Or security is an outcome of peace?
[00:44:55]  Security is an outcome of fulfilling rights.
[00:44:57]  I've heard the U.S. ambassador just now talking about our finances.
[00:45:01]  By the way, this is our money.
[00:45:03]  Israel is stealing, stealing, literally.
[00:45:06]  It's the biggest act of financial robbery in modern history.
[00:45:10]  It's our money, and they are holding it.
[00:45:13]  This isn't about money.
[00:45:15]  This is about rights.
[00:45:16]  So I'm telling you this to say also the Israeli public and the Israeli leadership must believe that security can only come not via bombing your way into it, but by fulfilling people's rights.
[00:45:28]  And no matter what you do, no matter how you want to do it, security will be the product of a real lasting peace.
[00:45:38]  In the meantime, of course, once people's rights are fulfilled, the state of Palestine will absolutely make sure that it protects its citizens and protects its neighbors and adheres to its commitment in the international arena.
[00:45:52]  100%.
[00:45:53]  And I assure you, if you will have an exemplary state in that region, it will be the state of Palestine.
[00:45:59]  You know what?
[00:46:00]  That would be a great thing for Palestinians and for the world.
[00:46:03]  Thank you, Ambassador.
[00:46:04]  It's always good to have you in the studio and I appreciate it.

=== Lasting Peace Through Rights (00:38) ===

[00:46:07]  I'm Piers Morgan.
[00:46:08]  I'm a black lesbian.
[00:46:11]  How it has been trying to remove masculinity for it seems like the last decade.
[00:46:17]  There were tears that ran down my face, but I did not cry.
[00:46:21]  I mean, that's crying.
[00:46:25]  Your tweet about a sex hate coming next is quite an incredibly Americans are fat pigs and British people have effed up teeth, but we're allies.
[00:46:36]  When we say good jeans are the ones that are...
[00:46:38]  That's a load of crap.
[00:46:39]  I saw Beyoncé do a jeans ad.
[00:46:41]  Everybody drooled over it.
[00:46:43]  Should trans athletes have their own category now?