"I Want The DEATH Penalty" Charlie Kirk Memorial | Feat Kari Lake & Tim Miller
On Sunday, Charlie Kirk’s memorial was attended by tens of thousands of Americans and watched by millions across the world. And after two weeks of uproar, including grotesque celebrations on one side and chilling calls for vengeance on the other, Charlie’s widow Erika Kirk seized the moral high ground by saying in a heartfelt speech that she forgives her husband’s suspected assassin. Meanwhile, President Trump’s speech was a slightly awkward mix of eulogy and campaign speech - and the same can be said about the whole event. Joining Piers Morgan to discuss the memorial and the events leading up to it is senior advisor at the US agency for global media, Kari Lake, The Bulkwark commentator Tim Miller, host of Democracy-ish, Wajahat Ali and Turning Point USA board member Eric Bolling. Piers Morgan Uncensored is proudly independent and supported by: Tax Network USA: Call 1-800-958-1000 or visit https://TNUSA.com/PIERS to meet with a strategist today for FREE Oxford Natural: To watch their full stories, scan the QR code on your screen or visit https://oxfordnatural.com/piers/ to get 70% off your first order when you use code PIERS. Cozy Earth: Luxury shouldn't be out of reach. Go to https://cozyearth.com/PIERS for up to 40% off Cozy Earth’s best-selling temperature-regulating sheets, apparel, and more. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
Transcriber: nvidia/parakeet-tdt-0.6b-v2, sat-12l-sm, and large-v3-turbo
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Anger Over MAGA Hatred00:04:39
Father, forgive them, for they not know what they do.
I saw the bias.
I saw the hatred toward the MAGA movement.
The media, they need to be cancelled, muted.
They're absolutely abhorrent.
I'm angry.
I'm going to stay angry because if we start playing this game of, okay, you did it, Progressive Left.
Now you want to play nice.
You want to say peace.
We should come together.
Kumbaya, bullshit.
I'm going to stay mad.
During his memorial service, you felt the need to just live post a lot of crap about it.
Charlie Kirk did the same thing in his life, and you guys treat him like Jesus.
Charlie Kirk mocked and ridiculed George Floyd, who was killed by a cop.
I just think this is like one of the most depressing 35 minutes I've ever spent in my entire life being on with these people.
Charlie Kirk's memorial was a spectacular show of defiance attended by tens of thousands of Americans and watched by millions across the world.
His killer wanted to silence him.
Instead, his ideas and his values have been amplified on a breathtaking scale.
And after two weeks of uproar, gratesque celebrations on one side, chilling calls for vengeance on the other, Kirk's widow, Erica, seized the moral high ground.
On the cross, our Saviour said.
Father, forgive them, for they not know what they do.
That man.
That young man.
I forgive him.
That took extraordinary courage, spirit, and sacrifice beyond rational comprehension.
Erica's a grieving widow and the mother of two very young, grieving children.
Their lives have been indelibly scarred by a hateful coward.
Forgiveness wouldn't be on my mind, not for a very long time.
Perhaps that's what the president was getting at when he had libed one of the day's more conspicuous remarks, a statement that were probably only he could get away with.
He did not hate his opponents.
He wanted the best for them.
That's where I disagreed with Charlie.
I hate my opponent.
And I don't want the best for them.
I'm sorry.
I am sorry, Erica.
But now Erica can talk to me and the whole group and maybe they can convince me that that's not right, but I can't stand my opponent.
Charlie's angry.
Look at that.
He's angry at me now.
President Trump's speech was a slightly awkward mix of eulogy and campaign speech, but that's what he does.
And the same can be said about the whole event.
You won't often see scripture and memorial paired with pyrotechnics and patriotism.
But that's what Charlie Kirk did.
Turning points events were packed with sparkle and spectacle.
They made the RNC feel like a nursing home.
And that's just part of why so many young people flocked to them and ultimately to Trump.
Plenty of people won't like it, just as plenty of people didn't like Charlie Kirk.
But the fact of the matter is that right now, in death, as in life, Charlie Kirk is recruiting many more people to his cause than his opponents are turning away.
To reflect on yesterday's memorial and to debate how polarized politics in the US has now become, I'm joined by Tim Miller, commentator at the ballwalk, Wajahat Ali, the host of Democracy-ish, Eric Bolling, the host of Bolling on YouTube, and a turning point USA board member who was at yesterday's memorial.
We'll begin with Carrie Late, the senior advisor at the US Agency for Global Media, who was also at the service in her native Arizona yesterday, alongside many in the Trump administration.
Carrie, welcome back to Uncensored.
I had a text exchange with President Trump when he was on his way in which he just said that it was a very big day, but was also going to be a very tough day.
Actually, when I watched it, it was very moving.
It was very emotional in parts.
But actually, the strongest sense I got was of an extraordinary sense of unity amongst everybody there and a determination to keep the Charlie Kirk flag flying.
What was your impression being there?
Definitely unity.
I mean, we were there to remember a friend, a great patriot, a great American, a great Christian.
And it was extraordinary.
I mean, the whole event started with hours of worship music by the biggest performers in Christian music.
It was getting there was almost impossible.
Media Chaos and Unity00:04:52
I mean, every road going in was filled and standstill traffic and people were walking from miles away.
And I bring this up because you talked about unity.
Usually there's frustration involved in that.
I mean, nobody likes to hit gridlock on a freeway when you're five miles out and you know it's going to be a long haul to get into this event.
I didn't hear one horn.
I didn't see one person lose their cool in traffic.
I saw people dressed in their Sunday best, wearing red, white, and blue.
That was kind of the theme.
Everybody wore patriotic colors, walking with their children for blocks and in some cases miles to get in.
Trash cans were so full because people were walking and their water bottles were there.
And when the trash can filled up, nobody threw stuff on the side of the road.
They stacked it neatly near the trash container.
This was a group of Americans who love this country, a patriotic group, many of whom were Christians, all of whom love Charlie Kirk for the strong message he shared, for the peaceful way that he spread the word of our Constitution and our freedoms.
And even the politicians that were there were talking about that.
We've got to start coming together as a country.
And that doesn't mean we give up what we believe in, but we can no longer tolerate the crime, the violence that is coming at us.
And we've sat down and taken it for a long time.
Now we're standing up and we refuse to take it.
The issue of political violence is not just an issue for people on the left against people on the right.
It's gone the other way many times in modern American history.
A lot of it is driven by deranged minds, there's no question.
A lot of it is driven by people who have lost all sense of humanity.
A lot of it's driven by impressionable minds hearing rhetoric, which may fuel them.
We don't know what fueled this particular shooter yet in terms of actual fact.
But what we do know is it looks like he was motivated by anti-fascist thinking and have probably been led to think that Charlie Kirk was a fascist because that's what a lot of people have been doing with people on the right, which I think has been a big problem with all this.
But do you accept, Carrie, that this is a, it's not just a one-sided problem.
The political violence and violent rhetoric is a problem on both sides of the divide and it's incumbent on everybody in a position of authority and influence to take the lead here in trying to just tone things down.
There's been a few cases where it goes from the right to the left, but there's been an exorbitant number where it's coming from the left to the right.
And you can't deny that.
If you add it all up, it's just more violence.
I mean, President Trump was nearly assassinated.
There's another attempt on his life.
God knows how many they've averted.
Charlie Kirk was speaking to students when he was taken out by an assassin's bullet.
We've seen the case in D.C. where leaders there were shot while at a baseball game and nearly killed.
It's typically going one way.
But the bigger question, I think, is why are these minds, these delusional minds, what's getting into their mind?
Why are they, why did that young man have a hatred in his heart for Charlie Kirk and conservatives?
And I think we have to look at what caused that.
And there is no denying that it's coming from the media, that it's coming from the schools, the professors, the indoctrination from K through 12, and then continued on in the higher education institutions and the media and the culture.
It's 100% negative.
And it has been about President Trump, about conservatives.
They've equated us to Nazis.
They've equated us to Hitler.
No wonder these young kids are bloodthirsty and trying to kill people.
In their minds, they've been told for their entire life that people like President Trump and Charlie Kirk and me and conservatives are the worst thing in the world.
That's what's got to stop, Pierce.
That's what's got to politics will be politics and we're going to continue to have vigorous and rigorous debate.
But it's got to stop and it's been coming from the media and I know it.
I worked in the media.
I saw it.
I saw the bias.
I saw the hatred toward the MAGA movement.
I saw the hatred toward the people who follow President Trump.
The media has to take credit for what they have caused, the chaos they've caused in our country.
And they haven't done it.
And until they do, they need to be turned off, canceled, muted.
They're absolutely abhorrent.
Do you hate your opponents?
I don't really.
I don't hate anybody.
I really don't.
I actually don't.
Do I dislike the behaviors of people?
Forgiveness Versus Justice00:03:00
Absolutely.
This killer who took Charlie's life, I don't harbor hate in my heart for anybody.
But what I do want is justice.
I want swift justice.
And once his due process has happened and he's gotten his due process and if found guilty, I want the death penalty.
And I think that many, many Americans do.
And on that Kerry, just on that one point before I go to the panel, that's what's really interesting about this, because if you ask Donald Trump, he was pretty clear.
And I thought, actually, you know, as he often can be, commendably honest about what he feels about his opponents.
He hates them.
A lot of them hate him.
And he wasn't going to sugarcoat that.
And he was honest about how he feels, even though it struck to many a jarring note because of what Erica Kirk had said about forgiveness.
But where does your demand for this killer to be executed?
And Donald Trump believes that too, and many on the right do.
Where does that sit with Erica Kirk saying that she forgives this shooter based on her very strong faith, which Charlie shared?
Are you sure that Charlie Kirk would want his killer to be executed?
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Well, it's the law and it'll be sentencing and that's what the penalty will be.
And I think you're confusing forgiveness with justice.
Erica did not stand on stage and say, I forgive him, now send him home.
She believes in justice.
I believe deeply that Erica would want justice for Charlie and Charlie would want justice for having his life taken.
His children's father were taken.
So forgiveness does not mean you don't want justice.
Forgiveness is actually a way to heal your own heart.
Because if you hold on to anger and forgiveness, it hurts the person who holds it more than it hurts the person you're angry with.
And so for Erica to say, I forgive him, as Christ showed us, will actually help heal her heart faster.
But under no circumstance did she say or would she say she does not want justice for her husband's assassin.
Okay, let's bring in the other members of the panel.
Tim Miller, let me start with you.
Healing Hearts Through Censorship00:07:49
There's been a lot of fallout from this Charlie Kirk thing.
It's been a huge, huge story that we can all agree on.
You know, the number of people here in the UK who've been talking to me about Charlie Kirk, someone that most of them had never heard of until 10 days ago, has been really fascinating.
It's a global story with real impact.
And at the heart of it, to me, is this, which is that Charlie Kirk may have had views that you might not have agreed with many of them.
I'm sure you didn't.
You know, he was a conservative, Christian, right-wing person to his bootstraps.
But he was also almost uniquely, actually, out there every week, deliberately going into places where many people didn't agree with him and encouraging open, free, democratic debate.
Prove me wrong was his mantra.
And when you watch those debates, he was respectful.
He was polite.
He tried to help the people on occasion.
Why did that guy become this hate figure so detested that a 22-year-old wants to kill him?
Well, Piers, I guess I don't completely agree with the whole premise of your question because, you know, this 22-year-old, look, we have this deep problem in this country.
It's something that you agree with, Piers.
Like, it's very easy for people who have mental health issues to get access to high-powered weapons.
And like this kid, this 22-year-old, he wasn't watching cable news.
He wasn't listening to Chuck Schumer, probably.
He's a 22-year-old.
If you look at the amount of hours that this kid was spending on social media, he is like deep in Discord chats.
He is deep in text messages with his various friends.
He's playing these VR games.
Supposedly, he has this roommate that is transgender that he's in love with based on his texts.
And he's seeing these clips of Charlie on TikTok.
And some of them are Charlie's own words that he objects to.
Some of them are misleading.
Some of them are taken out of context.
And you become radicalized and you get easy access to guns.
And he goes there to the school.
And I think it's part of a deep cultural issue that we have to address in our country is that for people who get radicalized online, for people who get, you know, who find themselves filled with hate towards someone either from a different political side or a different race, we've certainly seen this with racially motivated violence as well.
We've seen, like, we've seen this from all stripes, right?
Like to act like this is one particular thing, I just think is wrong.
What we have in this country is that people get radicalized, have easy access to guns, and they went after them.
And, you know, like, I think it's horrible.
And I wish that everybody would take more to heart what Erica Kirk was saying at the memorial yesterday than what some of the other folks have said.
And I think that, you know, by sometimes, because it's like a political talk show, you want to make, you know, people want to make this about us and like navel gaze about all this.
But I think that Tyler Robinson was radicalized in a very different way.
And I think we have to really think about, again, weapons, social media, what's happening online, how young people are consuming information, how young people are getting radicalized online.
It's a real big challenge for the country.
And it's just a tragedy that Charlie was a victim of it.
Eric Bowling, I want to play a clip from Van Jones from CNN, which went viral, which I thought was really powerful.
Let's take a look at this.
I mean, this is extraordinary.
So, this was received the day before he was killed.
Yeah.
Look, I mean, we were beefing.
We were going at it online, on air.
And then after he died, after he was murdered, my team called and said, Van, he was trying to reach you, man.
What?
And what was he doing?
Dialogue.
Let's be gentlemen together.
He says, let's disagree agreeably.
So I'm sitting on this and I'm watching the whole country talk about civil war, censorship, justifying murder about this guy.
This guy is reaching out to his mortal enemy, saying, We need to be gentlemen, sit down together and disagree agreeably.
And the next day he's killed.
And I've sat on it long enough, and I just said, you know what?
We're going to Memorial Weekend for this man.
We disagree.
Everybody knows we were not friends, okay, at all.
But you praise the good when it's time to memorialize somebody.
And what he did, and I didn't even know it was good.
He was not for censorship.
He was not for civil war.
He was not for violence.
He was for dialogue.
Eric, I found that really powerful because that's somebody who, by his own admission, was no friend of Charlie Kirk.
In fact, was, as he said, a mortal opponent, but found it in his heart in the last few days to understand that there was a lot of good in Charlie Kirk.
Putting aside the views he didn't agree with, that there were things that you could look at him and applaud and feel these were things worth noting in the wake of his murder.
What did you make of what Van Jones did there?
So, well, a couple things.
So, why didn't he take the call?
Why was it after Charlie's death that his staff had to tell him Charlie was trying to get in touch with him?
Look, Ban Jones happens to be probably the most moderate progressive I know, and that's great.
And Charlie maybe was reaching out to try and extend an olive branch.
Ban Jones is not the role with the liberal left.
The progressive left isn't, it doesn't position themselves where Van Jones, you know where they position themselves, Pierce?
They position themselves, and I'm talking about J.B. Pritzker, I'm talking about Jasmine Crockett, I'm talking about Elon Olmart.
The leaders of the Liberal Party, the Democrat Party right now, are positioning themselves as Trump is Hitler.
Anyone who follows Trump is a Nazi.
They're bigots.
They're fascists.
The shooter, the shooter had, hey, fascist catch on the bullet casing.
I mean, of course they're being radicalized because they're hearing the leaders of the Democrat Party say, hey, that other, that guy, Trump was in office and anyone who follows him, they're going to kill you.
They're going to come after you and kill you or put you in encampments.
Of course, people who are easily radicalized will get radicalized.
Van Jones is a sensible liberal.
Why didn't he take the call Charlie Kirk prior to Charlie's death?
Maybe he wasn't going to.
I don't know.
Yeah.
I will also push back a little bit on its time for unity.
You know, I lost a child.
You go through the stages of grief, right?
It's shock, it's misunderstanding, sadness, and anger.
When Charlie was killed, I announced it.
I was the first one to announce it on air at 4:13 that he was pronounced dead, 4:13 on last Wednesday, we could go Wednesday.
And I will never forget that moment that I didn't pass through sadness or disbelief.
I went right to anger.
And what I wanted, I want certain people, people who listen to me certainly to understand I'm angry.
I'm going to stay angry because if we start playing this game of, okay, you did it, progressive lefts.
Now you want to play nice.
You want to say peace.
We should come together, kumbaya, bullshit.
We just lost one of the thought leaders in our party, in our movement.
I'm original gangster MAGA.
We lost someone very important.
I'm going to stay mad.
I'm going to stop being mad about this right after the midterm elections.
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Free Speech Maximalist Defense00:11:35
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Isn't that slightly contrary to the message that Erica Kirk was conveying yesterday so powerfully, which particularly was powerful given that she was still in, obviously, in enormous grief, lost her husband just a few days before.
I thought the message she wanted to convey clearly was one of forgiveness.
And yet here are you, Eric, for reasons I completely understand, you know, in the same way that I understand why Donald Trump says he hates his opponents.
And I like people to be honest about how they're feeling.
I think it's important.
But do you not think there's a conflict between your desire to be full of anger and want to make this a political battle now and Erica making it clear that she had found it in herself to forgive this person?
Erica is a better Christian than I am, Pierce, no doubt about it.
And she will probably forgive the shooter.
I'm not ready to do that.
I'm not sure TPUSA will be all about, you know, forgiving people who are killing people on our side.
I think you're going to see TPUSA becoming a major, if they weren't already, they will become probably the most efficient, most effective political force on the planet.
Money is just flowing into this group.
I don't think it'll be all about, you know, let's forgive our opponents and let's forgive our people who are to stand up for Erica right now.
I think there's a difference.
I know there's a difference between forgiveness and let's let the guy go and not have any accountability.
No, no, I didn't mean that.
Erica wants justice.
I mean, let's forgiveness is, as I said in the interview earlier, it's a way to heal Erica's heart.
If you're holding anger, and I sense the anger, I feel it from you, Eric, and it's totally understandable.
But when you're harboring that anger, it hurts you more.
And so Erica has to be able to free that and allow herself to forgive.
And then justice shall come.
Under no circumstance will the person who killed Charlie Kirk be let go and not seeking justice.
The harshest justice will occur and that's going to happen.
But when it comes to unity, unifying doesn't say, okay, we're going to take these radical leftists and we're going to do a kumbaya.
No, they are radical and they are violent and we cannot allow that.
Unity means people who have woken up.
If you've woken up, hold up.
If you've woken up to that madness, if you've woken up to that madness and you say, I don't want what the left is pushing, I recognize now it's violent.
We welcome you into this party.
If you wake up and say the left has gone mad, we're done with it.
We welcome you in because we need to come together as Americans, but we don't accept and will not tolerate this hatred, this crazy agenda.
If I may, you're being logical.
They're not being logical in the 12, 13, 12 days since Charlie's murder.
They're still saying the same things.
Elar Omar literally said Charlie's likely killed because of his thoughts and the way he delivered them.
Across the board, J.B. Crisper continues to call Trump Hitler to this day or Nazis or fascists calls any MAGA person fascist.
They haven't learned, Kerry.
If they learn and they all came together and said, you know what, we've heightened our rhetoric on our side.
We're going to tone it down.
Hopefully you do on the right.
That's not where they are.
Okay.
They're getting more aggressive.
Let me bring in what you're having.
I responded to you, as you know, on X yesterday during the service.
And it's because you were on this sort of constant stream of consciousness of live posting during the memorial service in a way that I just found increasingly uncomfortable.
You know, you just kept pointing out all the bad things about Charlie Kirk.
Okay, you're perfectly entitled to those views.
Free speech means you can think what you like about Charlie Kirk.
He would be the first to say that, by the way.
But did you not just on a human level?
Serious question, because I've a lot of respect for you.
We've had a lot of debates together.
But I was really shocked that during a murdered man who is 31 years old, two young children, that during his memorial service, you felt the need to just live post a lot of crap about him.
Did nothing make you think, hang on, let's just let them have the memorial service.
Then we can get back into this stuff.
It looked to me like you weren't prepared to give Charlie Kirk a beat of humanity.
So I've heard a lot about mercy and love and forgiveness today, except also a desire for vengeance for the left.
So let me do something different.
And in response to you, Piers, let me actually unify all of us and let's bring the temperature down.
First and foremost, I think every single person on this panel condemns the horrible murder of Charlie Kirk by a 22-year-old white man from a conservative Christian family who was apolitical, according to all the evidence and was radicalized online, as Tim said, and most likely radicalized because he heard or thought he heard homophobic comments by Charlie Kirk.
One of us, as the Republican governor of Utah, said, not a lefty, not Antifa, not a left.
Actually, that's not what the governor said.
Sorry, just to be clear.
No, just to be clear, the governor's Muslim.
Hang on, just to be clear, because I had this debate a couple of days ago.
Just to be clear, I went back and checked and the governor, Spencer Cox, was crystal clear that the investigators so far are working on the belief from what they've found out that this kid had been radicalized by a leftist ideology.
That was what he said.
So when you say there's no suggestion, that's not true.
You interrupted all of them.
Let me just say my piece and then I'll lower the temperature and facts matter.
As of just two days ago, the FBI sources have said that they find no credible evidence that he was far left.
And I'll be fair, no credible evidence that he's far right.
This was a man who was radicalized online, 22-year-old white man, not the left.
He wasn't transgender.
He wasn't Antifa.
He wasn't progressives.
That's a fact.
You don't know any of that.
Temperature.
Let's lower the temperature.
You're not dialing down the temperature.
Absolutely.
I'm saying that.
You're removing any accountability for the way that some of the investigation appears to be leading.
I think we should wait, but I don't think that's...
When someone puts anti-fascist on the bulletin.
Can he answer your question?
Answer your question, Piers.
You asked him why was he a scumbag yesterday by live tweeting and saying horrendous things on Charlie Kirk's memorial?
That was Carrie.
Lying is a sin in Christianity.
Carrie, lying is a sin in Christianity.
So let me respond.
Let me respond.
I also believe in Jesus and Jesus doesn't like liars.
All right, now let's listen to this real quick.
The person who called used the word scumbag and this is where I'm going to say I defended Charlie Kirk because he is a free speech maximalist.
In his life, Charlie Kirk used his words to mock the living and the dead.
He had every right to.
He used the word scumbag to describe George Floyd, who was murdered by a cop.
He had every right to.
He said MLK was an awful person.
He has every right to.
He said he was against the Civil Rights Act.
He had every right to.
Charlie Kirk would also agree with me and other Republicans right now, including Ted Cruz, Rand Paul, other conservatives or those who are loved by conservatives like Tim Dylan, Ben Shapiro, in that the president of the United States, President Trump, the leader of the country and the leader of MAGA, should not abuse and use his death to do what?
Abuse his powers to cancel critics like Jimmy Kimmel.
I think Charlie Kirk, in his words with his life, if we look at what he said, would say, you know what?
My critics can debate me.
They can mock me.
His producer said that Charlie Kirk actually enjoyed South Park criticizing him and that'sn't my question.
And to be fair, hang on, hang on, hang on, everybody.
Hang on, just to be clear, Rajah.
I'm not the right to say that.
Well, but Jaha, like I said to you at the start, Charlie Kirk would not be the one to complain about this.
I was simply asking you that you wanted to tone things down.
Do you not think on a human level, it was just inappropriate?
Never mind anything else.
It showed a lack of humanity to just be bombarding on your ex-feed endless trash talk about Charlie Kirk as there was a memorial service to his life.
I think one of the most beautiful aspects of yesterday, and I think another thing we'll all agree on, was Erica Kirk, a widow, using her platform at that moment to ask for what?
Love and forgiveness.
Now, if you were offended by me bringing out Charlie Kirk's own record and words against him, you have every right to.
Charlie Kirk does not.
No, it was your timing.
I said to you, it was your timing.
Donald Trump, the president of the United States, what did he say?
You quoted.
I'm going to quote him again.
This is Donald Trump right after Erica Kirk, in a humane Christian way, asked for forgiveness.
You know what Donald Trump?
The leader of MAGA said, and I'm going to quote him, he, Charlie Kirk, did not hate his opponents.
He wanted the best for them.
That's where I disagreed with Charlie.
I hate my opponent and I don't want the best for them.
I'm sorry.
He then spent the next 45 minutes at Charlie Kirk's funeral using and abusing his murder.
But what does that have to do with you?
You didn't answer the question.
What does that have to do with you, Wajah?
I simply asked you a question.
I'm perfectly fine.
I simply asked you, do you not think on a human level?
I am perfectly fine.
Do you think it was inappropriate for you on a human level to be what?
It was inappropriate or appropriate.
Charlie Kirk did the same thing in his life and you guys treat him like Jesus did.
Not during someone's memorial service.
Charlie Kirk did it during someone's memorial service.
Wait, wait, wait.
Let's bring up facts.
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Charlie Kirk has every right to be able to do that.
Just look, you have an opportunity here.
When David Depape, a Trump supporter, beat up Paul Pelosi, Charlie Kirk asked his followers to pay for his bail.
He had every right to.
Charlie Kirk mocked and ridiculed George Floyd, who was killed by a cop, choked to death.
We saw the pediatric nonsense he had every right to.
Radicalization and Hyper Rhetoric00:14:48
And Carrie Lake, I want to ask you this because you're a person who's allegedly Christian.
You didn't blame Tyler Perry, you were very forgiving.
You blamed the indoctrination camps.
You said at Candy Center.
You blame colleges.
You said they're indoctrination camps.
You said the one semester that Tyler Perry was at the indoctrination camp your quote, that was the one thing that was responsible.
And then you said people should not send their kids to colleges.
Can you look at the camera right now, right now, and tell your Republican colleagues, elected officials, who have sent their kids to Ivy League colleges right now, take their kids out of college.
Have the courage and convictions, carry lake, you call them indoctrination colleagues.
Ask your Republican colleagues.
I think you.
I think college, just like Charlie, I think college is overrated and in many cases I know many, many of my friends have sent their children off to college, loving children.
They come back.
They don't like their family anymore.
They've completely become politicized, to a almost violent level.
I stand by exactly what I said, but it goes a step further.
Frankly, it's people like you who spread lies in the media who have done more damage to this country in the minds of young people, and you had a chance to apologize.
What you did yesterday.
I didn't see it, thank goodness.
But you know, Pierce just asked, did you think that was appropriate?
I really, I really really question you are.
Let me ask him, let me ask Tim Miller, because I can see you pulling a few faces here, but i'm just not entirely sure why.
So explain what you're feeling right now about this.
I just think this is like one of the most depressing 35 minutes i've ever spent in my entire life, uh, being on with these people and um, I think that this is a big tragedy.
I think, in a liberal democracy um, that we all should agree that people are responsible for their own actions, that people should be held, should be held accountable for their own actions as individuals, that we, we this is not.
I don't want this country to become Yugoslavia, where the Serbs hate the Croats and every Croat is bad and every Serb is bad and every man, every Non-maga, is responsible for Tyler Robinson's actions and every Mega responsible for David Depape's actions.
And we come on here and we shout at each other and we say that oh, what did?
What did Carry?
Just say oh, that the liberals have become violent.
The liberal, it's a violent movement.
It's like that's.
That is not true.
Or that Wajahat comes on here and starts like shout, not answering the question, shouting like, why are we?
What is the point of this?
Come back together.
We should be able to come back together and engage on the merits of what happened.
Every liberal is not violent.
I know lots of liberals.
I talked to a lot of a lot of liberals.
Don't don't own weapons, don't want to have weapons.
Preach peace.
There were obviously a lot of Christians and Magas and conservatives that Preached peace yesterday, including Charlie's wife.
Like, we're going to come on here and smear everybody from the other side and incite and have Eric come on and say, I'm angry and I want to go at war with the left.
I'm sorry.
I just, I'm signing out from all this.
I'm checking out from all of it.
Tyler Robinson, what he did was horrible, and he's responsible for his actions.
People are responsible for their words if they're lying and they should, and they should be called out for it.
But like, what are we doing?
Why are we doing this?
I mean, Megan Kelly yesterday was tweeting at me.
Carrie, we retweeted it.
She said, You, she said to me, you gleefully canceled all of us for five years.
One of yours killed Charlie, and then you laughed at our pain.
Carrie just said they, they did this.
She used the word they.
I don't, I didn't do any of that.
I didn't laugh at Charlie.
I didn't kill Charlie.
I don't take any glee in his pain.
I've become, it's really affected me emotionally in a deep way.
And I think that the way that we've all decided to treat each other on these panels, like we're fucking, we're enemies and there's some civil war when like the reality is a deranged 22-year-old that got radicalized did something really bad and we should all fucking condemn it and say we don't want that to become a country where people do political assassinations.
Unfortunately, I just don't think that we're up for that.
And I've got to listen to like this clown show and it's pretty frustrating, frankly.
And depressed it's not frustrating, actually.
It's really sad.
It makes me sad.
I'm depressed by it all.
You know, that's a very honest.
It's a very honest thing.
Can I respond just a little bit to that?
I mean, I think I got dragged there and I agree that the person who shot our friend is the one responsible.
You came on and tried to blame it on guns.
And it is a madman who did a terrible thing.
But where did he get indoctrinated?
Where did he change his viewpoints?
And it has been a constant.
And Tim, you're in the media.
I assume you would agree that you're in the media.
I've seen you on all kinds of different shows.
And you have espoused many, many viewpoints that have been very, very hateful toward the right.
And so I think it's time to take responsibility for it.
Now, this is the thing, Carrie.
This is the game you're playing.
It's like, is that people have said things and that we need to figure out where this guy got radicalized.
That's true.
We need to figure out where he got radicalized.
I don't think that there's, if you, if you have kids, you know what 22-year-olds watch.
I don't think there's any reason to believe that this 22-year-old was like watching MSNBC or something.
Like we should figure out where he got radicalized.
I agree with that.
If you look at the carvings on his bullets, like this guy was deep into gamer culture.
Like this guy was, I'm deeply concerned about the social media companies and TikTok and YouTube and X feeding people very divisive stuff.
Why are we hireing the elephant in the room?
What can we say?
Like just to say, oh, you've said mean things about MAGA, so you're responsible for this.
That's crazy.
That is not.
I do have kids, though.
I have a 21 and a 22-year-old.
So I have kids right at the age of the killer.
And you know what?
My kids tell me, mom, the garbage that's been in culture, what they've taught us at school, what they've taught us at summer camp, that has played into many people in their generation hating folks who are conservative.
They've seen it.
My son's at school.
He talks about the radical teachers.
I said, okay, you've talked about the leftist teachers.
Tell me you've got at least one or two who would be conservative.
He said, there's zero professors who are conservative on our campus.
We have more guns.
I'm just saying this.
This is the fact.
The number one killer for children and teens in the United States of America.
And I think this is a sobering moment for everyone because I got kids too.
Is guns.
We have more guns pierced than people.
Now, I'm not saying that there's a lot of people who have Second Amendment.
They're very responsible for the guns, but this 22-year-old Tyler, who was radicalized online, like Tim said, we don't know what's happening with him.
He had clear access to guns.
And I would hope that this is a moment where some people say, you know what?
A majority of gun owners are very responsible.
They are in America.
That's also a fact.
But maybe having this easy access to AR-15 style weapons, maybe just having some...
The difference here.
So everyone knows my view about the gun issue.
And ultimately, I concluded this is an issue Americans have to work out themselves in their own country.
And I got that message, which I think is completely reasonable.
I'd feel the same way if Americans were telling us how to lead our lives.
Say, so fair enough.
But Eric, you know, one of the things about that argument, which I think doesn't really apply here, is it looks like he just took his grandfather's old rifle.
It wasn't a high-powered AR-15 he had personally gone and bought from a store where you could have a debate about whether someone like him should have had the access and so on.
He just took his grandfather's old rifle.
I'm not sure how you stop that happening, however many new laws you bring in for gun control.
But Eric, your response to Tim in particular, Tim, you know, that was a powerful thing that Tim was saying there.
And I completely understood what he was saying.
It really resonated with me because the Charlie Kirk killing moved me a lot.
I'm sure it did all of this in different ways, but it profoundly moved me, not least because a bit like Tim, a bit like others on this panel, we've all got to go out and take part in debates and events and so on.
And I defy anyone not to have been thinking or talking to their families about what this means, right, going forward, right?
If we can't have debate in public without people wanting to kill us, where does that take us?
However, Tim, with respect, however, you know, lively these panels get, and however much you may dislike the tone of it, at least we don't want to shoot each other, right, and kill each other.
We're prepared to debate with each other.
But Eric, what did you think about what Tim said?
I think Tim is being an opportunist right now.
As I've seen Tim all over the media, trashing Republicans, certainly trashing people like me, MAGA, first people, America first people.
I remember, Tim, Tim, this moment of inflection, retrospective inflection on your part, admirable.
Okay.
Here's the problem, though.
It's not the guns.
It's not the radicalization in schools.
It's not the hyper rhetoric that the left is delivering.
It's all of it, Pierce.
It's all of it.
You want to talk guns?
You want to talk about in the state of many states, but in the state of Florida, if you have a medical marijuana license, you cannot get an open carry.
You cannot get a gun.
You cannot have the same allowed gun control laws that other people have because you may be under the influence of marijuana when you're holding a firearm.
If you've been mentally institutionalized, you cannot get a gun.
There's the elephant in the room here right now is that this guy, why he said he had access to guns, he had proximity to guns.
He also had proximity to the trans community.
His boyfriend was transitioning.
Okay.
There is a common denominator here almost too frequently, certainly by if you take it by the rate of number of actual trans people in the world or in America, it's like one and a half percent.
The shooters, you have this shooter had access to or proximity to a trans boyfriend who he may be been radicalized by him.
You had Minnesota recently, trans shooter.
You had Nashville, trans shooter.
It goes on and on.
So the proliferation of trans murderers is a much higher rate than they actually are in the general population.
It's Eric, that's a lie.
And there's no need.
Not a lie.
There's no need.
Look, you just literally have increased the temperature.
If you want to lower the temperature, and I think we all agree on this, Erica Kirk, what she said was the following: I don't want to say that.
Wait, wait, wait.
Speaking of lowering the temperature, Donald Trump, I don't care if he's mega, he's a president, he's the president of all Americans.
He could have and should have used that moment in front of the world to follow Erica's lead and just lower the temperature.
You have what you have failed to do, Wajay.
Let me just jump in.
Let me just jump in, Wajar.
Let me just challenge you on that point.
And the DOJ just scrubbed it.
We want to keep it safe.
Let me just jump in.
The problems lower the temperature.
I'm here.
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Destiny did this as well last week.
A lot of people on the left coming on and they justify their own behavior by using Trump, right?
Well, if Trump's doing this, Trump's doing that, to which my response is, and I think Tim hinted at this earlier, everyone is accountable for their own behavior.
You shouldn't have your behavioral pattern dictated to by what the president does or anybody else.
You, Wajarat, right?
You're a smart guy.
You're a passionate guy.
You have a lot of strong beliefs, just like Charlie Kirk did.
They didn't always interlogue.
Fair enough.
But I found what you did yesterday was this mindset of if Trump does it, I can do it.
And where's the high moral ground in that?
Where is the intellectual consoled the nation yesterday?
I'm not the one that's not.
President Trump consoled the nation yesterday.
He consoled two weeks ago.
What's facts matter?
Carrie, real quick, real quick.
He brought the country together.
He did not bring the country together.
He literally, after Erica said a beautiful statement, he literally increased the temperature and said the following.
Now we know you read it already, but you've done the same.
You know what it is.
This is what Donald Trump said.
I hate my opponent.
You've read it already.
I don't want the best for them.
You've read it already.
And as we know, he has asked Pam Bondi, his DOJ, to go against all Democrats.
This is a man who is the president of the United States.
Lower the temperature.
And I also want to say, because facts matter, two weeks ago, there was no suspect.
Two weeks ago, there was no motive.
Irresponsibly and recklessly, it was Donald Trump who took to the world stage and irresponsibly and incorrectly blamed the radical left.
And you also had Stephen Miller yesterday say them.
They're responsible.
I'm not responsible.
Tim's not responsible.
It was Tyler Robinson.
You called Stephen Miller a Nazi yesterday.
They said they.
You called Stephen Miller.
Look to your leader, Donald Trump.
I look to you, Wajarat.
You call Stephen Miller a Nazi Piers Morgan.
You called him, you called him a Nazi yesterday, effectively.
You said this sounds like Donald His speech in Germany from 1939.
Donald Trump, here's my point.
You want the right, you want the right to brand Stephen Miller a Nazi in the middle of his speech at a memorial service.
And then whenever you're challenged about you raising the temperature to such ludicrous levels of comparing people on the Trump MAGA right to Nazis and Hitler and so on, whenever we say to you, well, why are you doing that?
You say, ah, but Trump.
Trump does this and Trump does that.
And Stephen Miller does this.
What you don't do is what you don't do is if you're yourself and go, how should I behave?
I don't think it's appropriate for you to be calling people Nazis on stage at a memorial service.
So Piers, do you think it's appropriate for the president of the United States who's far more powerful than the other person?
He just did it again.
It's you I'm talking to.
Furthermore, I did not call Donald Trump America's Hitler.
Words Are Not Violence00:10:21
That was RFK.
No, you call Stephen Miller a nice.
With influential positions.
So what are we doing here?
What we're doing here is reminding you as Donald Trump.
What I'm doing here is reminding you of what you posted during the memorial service.
You keep talking about lowering the temperature.
But with respect, you keep talking about lowering the temperature.
You're the guy who, in the middle of the memorial service, called one of the speakers a Nazi.
Who did I?
Stephen Miller.
Stephen Miller quoted Goebbels.
He quoted.
So you think he's a Nazi?
And he, by the way, is in the Trump administration.
You think he's a Nazi.
I'm not talking about not lowering the temperature.
Is he a Nazi?
Is he a Nazi?
But he didn't quote Goebbels' speech.
Is he a Nazi?
That's terrifying.
Okay.
Is he a Nazi?
No, he's not a Nazi, but he seems to love Nazi thank you.
They're probably not helpful in terms of lowering the temperature to brand him.
That's not helpful during the memorial speech.
Let me bring Tim Miller back in here.
Tim, this is shameless.
Shameless, Pierce.
Actually, it is shameless because you keep deflecting from any accountability for what you yourself are.
You're holding me at the same responsibility.
All right, Tim.
Let me bring in Tim.
Let me bring in Tim.
And you do not ask Donald Trump and Stephen Miller.
Okay, it's fine.
I ask those guys.
They are leading the country.
What are you doing here?
Okay, Tim.
Yeah, I don't know.
It's kind of hard to find.
I mean, Wash that's made the same point several times.
I just want to respond to something Eric said because I do think that it is important where Eric talked about how I go around in the media and I criticize Donald Trump and I criticize MAGA Republicans.
Yeah, I do that.
I have like very deep criticisms of the policies that Donald Trump is putting forth.
I have very deep criticisms of the policies that Kerry put forth.
We've argued about that before in several different forums, not just here.
We've had debates.
But like, here's the thing that the game that is being played that I don't like, right?
Which is like Charlie was able to go out and have these debates in public and that was good.
And in those debates, he smeared the left.
He went at him hard.
He went at him really hard.
He attacked people from the left.
He attacked Joe Biden.
He attacked left politicians.
And that was good that he was out there having those debates.
And that was a value that he was having those debates.
And he didn't deserve to die because of that.
And that is something I 100% agree with.
But then you put it on the other side and say, well, Tim or whoever is out there and they're criticizing MAGA and they use harsh words and they criticize MAGA harshly.
And that they're responsible then for the violence.
And I just don't agree with that.
That's kind of a leftist view, really, that like words are violence.
But do you not think, Tim, but Tim, on that point, Tim, do you not think, because I got into this, there's a political show in the UK called Question Time.
It's the most watched political panel show.
And I was on it last week with Bonnie Greer, who's an American political commentator, who just has repeatedly called Trump Hitler and MAGA supporters Nazis in the last few weeks.
And I simply said to her, you know, you're talking about lowering the temperature.
Again, the sort of theme, which is fine, but how does it lower the temperature to compare Donald Trump to Adolf Hitler, to compare his supporters to Nazis?
And so I think language, like you said, language does matter, right?
I do think when an impressionable young, damaged mind puts on his bullet casings anti-fascist slogans, he's probably having that put in his head that Charlie Kirk, Donald Trump, and all the MAGA right are a bunch of fascist Nazis and Trump's Hitler.
He's probably hearing that a lot because you know what?
A lot of people on the left continue to call them that.
And I think that's wrong.
Well, okay, sure.
I guess my point is that I don't think any of us would disagree with the fact that Charlie Kirk used some very heated, intense rhetoric and leveled some very extreme allegations at the left.
Please stop trying to blame this on Charlie Kirk.
He asked you a question, Tim.
Are you going to take any risk?
Are you going to take any risk?
Whenever you're asked a tough question, it goes back to what Donald Trump did and what Charlie Kirk did.
What about what we've all said and done?
And do you take any responsibility?
That's what people are doing.
Because the point about the fascism, racism.
Well, the thing about Hitler, look, look, Tim, the reason I mentioned the Hitler-Nazi thing and the fascist thing, this constant use of this language, is that it's entirely consistent, logical, that if you're a damaged young mind and you genuinely think that Donald Trump is Hitler or Charlie Kirk is a fascist or MAGA supporters are Nazis, it's entirely logical if you're a disturbed mind that you might think, well,
it's my duty to kill these people because they are the new Nazis.
They are the new Mussolini, you know, and it's like, no, they're not.
I hear what you're saying, Piers, and I promise I'm going to answer it.
I just, I got cut off when people saying I was trying to, when Kerry was saying, I was trying to Charlie for this.
I just want to be 100% clear.
I was making the exact opposite point.
I was saying the exact opposite point.
I think that everybody should be careful about their language and accurate.
I don't support hyperbole and smearing people falsely.
I'm not for that.
Okay.
But here's the thing.
That same logic, right, that because somebody on the left has called Trump a Nazi or because people have called him a fascist, that means they're responsible for this murderer.
That same logic would rationalize any murder, right?
I mean, Donald Trump uses the harshest language about his opponents.
He calls them the enemy of the people.
He's called them communists.
He's called them fascists.
He's used the word fascists.
He uses extremely nasty rhetoric all the time.
Would that justify a right-wing person killing a left-wing person?
Of course not.
No.
And that would be crazy to say that.
So here's the thing.
Speech is not violence.
Charlie would have said that.
We all should be able to debate in the public square, sometimes intensely, but we shouldn't then go and say, okay, that means you are murderers and we need to have literal civil war.
And that is what I'm starting to hear out there from people on both the right and the left.
And I fundamentally reject it.
Okay.
Speech is not violence.
We should all be more responsible.
We should all be more respectful.
I don't think we should.
Sorry, Wajahat.
I don't think we should have been live hate tweeting Charlie during his memorial.
We can be more respectful.
Thank you, Tim.
Words are not violence.
Thank you for saying that.
You're welcome.
Words are not violence, though.
And we shouldn't be accusing the other side and smearing everybody on the other side of being some evil enemy because of one deranged kid's actions.
This is going to end really bad in this country.
I don't disagree at all.
Eric, final word to you.
You wanted to say something?
Yeah, no, I'm just going to point something out.
So everyone here wants, we're pundits, guys.
Across the board, we're pundits.
Carrie works in the administration.
Other than that, the rest of us, us are pundits.
So for Wajahid to say, we want unity or tone it down, but if we don't, it's because Trump says a lot of things.
Trump was almost assassinated twice.
Charlie Kirk was assassinated by a white man for their thoughts and for their words.
Okay.
My point is this.
Until and unless, and I'll say both sides, you want to have Trump tone his rhetoric down.
You don't have J.B. Pritzker calling Trump a Nazi.
You don't have the leaders on the left, Elon Omar, Jazzy Jasmine Crockett, AOC saying, oh, if it weren't for the gun, you wouldn't be dead.
Bullshit.
It was a rifle.
It wasn't an automatic or semi-automatic gun.
It was a rifle, a bolt action rifle.
It had nothing to do with a gun.
So those folks are using it to further divide.
I'll say on the right and on the left, further divide the country because it gets people.
As for the pundits, the people here and Pierce, you point out the most popular show in England was hosting someone who called Trump a Hitler over the last couple of weeks, repeatedly, Washaheed, calling us, you know, fascist, whatever, gets you booked.
Hate tweeting while Charlie's funeral is on goddamn books.
Literally used his own words.
That's next level.
I literally used his own words.
Yeah, you could what you did, but anyway, you did.
It says a lot about you.
You know what, Bajar Hat?
It is true.
You did use his own words, but you did it to trash talk Charlie Kirk during the morning.
I'm going to be honest.
I thought you were horrible.
On a human level, I just found it horrible.
By using his own words.
Whatever.
Whatever.
Just horrible.
By using his own words.
Okay.
I found it horrible.
You know what?
It's my free speech right.
Thank you all very much.
I agree too, Pierce.
Carrie, I've got to leave it once.
We'll run out of time.
I love the show Piers Morgan Uncensored.
I know this is a new version, Piers Morgan Censored, but this is the old version of the Zoroastrianism.
When have I censored this?
When have I censored this?
This guy is depraved.
I've never censored it.
I never censored anybody.
I just told you I found what you said horrible.
You know what?
Free speech lets me do that, Bajarhat.
Can we end on unity?
Do you agree with me and Ted Cruz that President Trump using and abusing the power of the FCC to cancel his critics is terrible for all people, all Americans?
Yes.
You know, we talked about wanting to unify, but honestly, I don't know who this guy in the middle is other than he's written for him.
I'm literally agreeing with Ted Cruz.
Do you agree that the FCC to cancel all critics is terrible for people who got cancelled?
Jimmy Kimmel got canceled.
The good news, everybody, is I'm about to start another panel debate about the Jimmy Kimmel saga.
So thank you all very much indeed.
You have all served your purpose.
I appreciate it.
Thank you very much.
Rest in peace, Charlie, and God bless Erica and the children.
Hear here.
I'll say, Carrie, thank you very much.
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