"Don't Recognise My OWN Country!" MAGA Britain Debate + Graham Lineham Interview
Tax Network USA: Call 1-800-958-1000 or visit https://TNUSA.com/PIERS to meet with a strategist today for FREE From arrests and even jail terms for poor-taste tweets to a breakdown in law & order and out-of-control migration, the MAGA view of Britain is decidedly unflattering. Outrage over this summer’s ‘Raise The Colours’ campaign - and the arrest by armed police of comedian and Father Ted co-creator Graham Linehan - have only advanced the dark vision of the UK promoted by star podcasters, Elon Musk, and even the US Vice President. Many Brits do agree with at least some of the tone of this coverage - but others believe it’s based on cynical falsehoods, racist motives and the opportunism of using Britain to warn Americans not to drop their MAGA guard. So, who’s right? Piers Morgan interviews Lineham about his arrest and the backlash he’s received for airing his views - before being joined by radio and talkshow host Owen Shroyer, conservative commentator Isabel Oakeshott, lawyer and commentator Paula Rhone-Adrien and social media superstar ‘Big John’ Fisher. Piers Morgan Uncensored is proudly independent and supported by: Brooklyn Bedding: Enter our show name after checkout so they know we sent you! Visit https://Brooklynbedding.com for 30% off & use promo code PIERS! Pique: Get 20% off your order plus a FREE frother & glass beaker with this exclusive link: https://piquelife.com/PIERS Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
Transcriber: nvidia/parakeet-tdt-0.6b-v2, sat-12l-sm, and large-v3-turbo
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Turbulent Trip Back to US00:02:28
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It's hurt us.
It's hurt our people.
It's hurt our future.
And we're sick and tired of liberals stepping into the fray and saying, no, you just have to accept it.
No, we don't.
And I think that now that we've tried this experiment, we've seen that it's failed.
It's fueled by anger.
It's fueled by aggression.
It's fueled by frustration.
As if those things propel it onto planet fact, when of course it doesn't.
It doesn't even allow it to orbit planet fact.
The point is the police are working for criminals.
The police are doing the bidding of these criminals.
And it's because this debate is so confusing that they're able to run rings around it.
President Trump is coming to the UK next week.
Would you like him to take up your case, maybe with the Prime Minister, with the King?
Perhaps he's got the state dinner coming.
When I heard that Trump had won, I went into a sort of depression.
And then the next time he won, I was delighted because, you know, whatever his flaws and faults are, at least he knows what a woman is.
I am British and it will always be my home, but I have taken my children out of the UK and I'm now educating them in the Middle East where they get a traditional British education without any of the trans bollocks and woke ideology.
I would like to see people come together a bit more because we still are a great country and a great people wherever we come from, wherever our backgrounds.
The arrest of comedy writer Graham Lineham has become a global controversy, heaping further scrutiny on what many people believe to be a troubling erosion of free speech rights in the UK.
Linneham was arrested by five armed police after arriving at Heathrow Airport on a flight from the US of a post on social media which had been reported for inciting violence against transgender people.
Graham Linnehan is currently back in the US from where he joins me now.
Graham, welcome to Uncensored.
Thank you, Piers.
You're now back in the United States after what can best be described as a pretty turbulent trip to the UK.
Global Controversy Over Arrest00:11:44
Take me back to the moment you came in to Heathrow Airport and what happened to you.
Well, the plane landed and it was one of those strange moments where it came to a stop and people were told to stay seated.
And I thought, you know, it was a normal piece of technical or you know, a technical issue or something that was holding things up.
But then they called my name over the tannoy and told me to present myself at the, you know, to the staff, so I to the crew.
So I grabbed all my stuff.
I'm not very graceful at the best of times, so that was quite a sight.
And that was my main concern, really, getting all my stuff until...
And then when I had it all and I collected myself, I kind of knew immediately what had happened because this would be, God, maybe the fourth time the police have come to my, come to warn me or harass me on behalf of, you know, the same trans activists.
And this has been happening for eight years, so I was used to it.
I knew what was awaiting me, but I never thought I would be arrested.
I never thought I would be arrested.
And you had an interesting conversation with them where you were trying to find out why they'd arrested you.
What did they say to you?
They said I was being held on suspicion of, you know, this is all a bit of a blur because it was so upsetting, but of posting some...
My passport was flagged, which made sense because I'd had trouble checking in and I didn't know why.
And then they just said that I was being arrested on, you know, causing violence to people or something like that.
And I went nuts, you know, because as I say, these are the same people who've been harassing me for eight years.
I've gone to the police again and again to them, including a credible death threat from one of them.
And the police have never done anything.
It's as if there's a ring of protection around these men.
So I started kind of really kicking off.
And they became concerned that I was going to be a control problem.
So they were going to put cuffs on me.
And I said, if you put cuffs on me, I will be a control problem.
And then, you know, the mood of the whole thing was similar throughout.
They were very nice.
They appeared actually quite embarrassed.
They put me, they agreed to not walk me through the airport in cuffs.
I said to them, you're not putting me in cuffs for defending women's rights in probably fruitier language than that.
And then they brought a van around the back to put me in.
And I remember thinking, well, this is a bit more civilized.
But then I went and I, and because of protocol, I had to sit in this little white steel cage for the whole thing.
And I thought, wow, you know, I mean, if you told me 25 years ago when we were winning the BAFTA for Father Ted, that one day I'd be in a tiny steel cage.
Well, it is, well, it is.
I was going to say, I mean, it is an extraordinary journey you've gone on.
And I want to take you back to before this all started.
Your life was...
How would you categorize your life nine years ago, for example?
Oh, you know, I was like a top comedy writer.
I was getting offers to do things like, you know, a companion piece to, you know, a famous comedy that would have been very...
Sorry, I'm kind of not explaining myself well, but things were going good.
You know, I'd had six BAFTAs or five BAFTAs to my name.
I genuinely can't remember how many.
And I was kind of on the top of my profession.
And on top of that, Hat-Trick Productions and Sonia Friedman Productions were about to make a musical of Father Ted.
And then I started defending women's rights.
And almost immediately, it just got flipped on.
And what was the sort of light bulb switch that went off that made you want to really get into this issue?
Well, it was self-ID.
I mean, self-ID is something that trans activists have been pushing for years.
And it really means that through mere self-declaration, any man can call himself trans and enter any female space.
And I have a daughter, and she's like, you know, getting to college age.
And I didn't want to, you know, I can't follow her around keeping her safe.
You have to trust that society will keep her safe.
And yet the Labour Party, the police, the NHS, all these institutions were suddenly saying that anyone who says they're a woman is a woman.
And I thought that that is a recipe for, you know, for women to be even less safe than they are.
You've just been talking about that terrible murder on the bus.
Well, you know, women know that one of the few places they have to be safe is a woman-only space.
And those spaces are being destroyed by trans activists.
So I still don't understand why people didn't join me because all my colleagues in comedy, a lot of them have daughters, and they just couldn't seem to give a damn.
I mean, it's interesting.
I was going through a list of some of the people that you've worked with over the years, and you've worked with almost everybody.
But no, Steve Coogan, you wrote a lot for his character, Alan Partridge.
Has he been supportive of you?
No.
No one has.
I've actually begged people to help, like Chris Morris of Brass Eye, Charlie Brooker of Black Mirror, Armando Yannucci.
Like none of these people who were great friends ever said a word about it.
They never said, of course, Graham Linahan isn't a bigot.
Of course, women need single-sex spaces.
Of course, they need fair sports.
They've all been silent as the grave on this.
And I think it's an incredible dereliction of their responsibilities, not just as commentators, but as men, you know?
How can you not stand up for your wife and children?
I don't get it.
The criticism against you has always been that you can have these views, and they're very similar, by the way, to my own views about this, but that the way you've gone about defending women's rights, the way you've gone about taking on the trans activist lobby about this, has often appeared to people, even those who know you well, to be quite obsessive, borderline harassing, quite abusive, and so on.
What do you say to that specific charge that the tone you've adopted has often been, as many people think, over-aggressive?
Well, the problem with that argument is that the bar for being tonally wrong for trans activists is very, very low.
It includes, you know, using their real name, saying he instead of she.
These are taboos that I don't agree with.
I think it's very, very important to call a man a man because otherwise this conversation gets very confusing.
And the language that's used in this debate is deliberately confusing, so people can't find their feet.
Years ago, when this all began, I still thought that people could be kind of convinced through conversation and so on.
I even had a secret meeting with Stonewall about it, which I said I wouldn't talk about, but they've caused so much harm to my life that I don't care anymore.
And we wrote a letter to Stonewall asking for a more, a less toxic debate so that we could maybe get rid of the death threats to women and the rape threats to women.
As you know, J.K. Rowling is suffering them every day.
And they refused.
They refused within the day to help us bring down the tone.
So then my life started falling apart.
None of my friends stood up for me.
And I started to get angry.
And my anger just, you know, sometimes, and also I was getting tons of abuse.
I was being called a bigot over and over again for the mildest forms of the most basic form of feminism.
And, you know, I got angry.
Of course I lashed out.
And I've gone through various different stages.
You know, when I'm under a lot of pressure because of trans activists, I do get angry.
But then, you know, when things are going my way, I like, nope, a bit.
And, you know, at the moment, luckily, things are going my way.
So.
Well, certainly the mood is very different now.
And I'm going to come to that.
But I noticed, I think it was Jeremy Clarkson at the weekend, saying that he thought it was just a strange hill for you to want to choose to die on.
This battle over...
Does he not know any women?
Yeah.
Does he not know any women?
Are there no women in his life?
Do you know what I mean?
I mean, why is it a strange battle to stop men going into women's spaces?
If that woman could have hidden in a woman's space, you know, she still wouldn't be safe if a man can walk in after her, you know, the woman who was killed on the bus.
Why does Clarkson not care about the women in his life?
More importantly, why does he not care about the thousands of children who've gone into gender clinics and had surgery and taken hormones that destroy their health?
You know, there's no coming back from these hormones, despite what trans activists say.
They're absolutely lying about that.
There's no medical basis to it.
So why isn't Jeremy Clarkson fighting this fight?
You know, do people not care about children anymore?
I don't get it.
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As your life, as you put it, began to fall apart.
We saw the same thing happen to J.K. Rowling, who sort of took it on head-on, but was getting the most appalling threats and so on.
And I was pretty vocal throughout that whole period, you know, agreeing with a lot of what you guys were saying because I just felt it was so, particularly in the issue of women's spaces and women's sport and these cases of male rapists suddenly putting their hand up and saying at their trial, well, I'm actually identifying as a woman and being put into women's prisons where they could attack other women if they wanted to.
Quite extraordinary stuff was going on.
And anyone that tried to challenge this was immediately shamed, vilified, cancelled, and so on.
Few were cancelled quite like you.
I mean, you saw all your work basically disintegrate, right?
Yeah, like Channel 4 banned an episode of the IT crowd, completely harmless episode.
And they sent me a letter that could have been written by Stonewall itself, you know.
Few Cancelled Quite Like You00:02:38
I was always a nerd and a geek.
And I think that unfortunately, a lot of the sort of fashionable end of trans started in those circles.
A lot of autistic people in these circles and they are particularly susceptible to this myth that they're going to be able to change sex.
So I was kind of destroyed in those circles first.
And then the press, the BBC, The Guardian were very happy to continue the picture of me as a bigot, you know.
Over the eight years.
You know, as to my conduct.
Well, I'll come to that.
As to my conduct.
Yeah, go on.
Sorry, Piers.
Well, I was going to ask you, over the eight years, have you calculated how much this may have cost you financially?
Oh, yeah.
The musical alone.
I mean, I saw it as my pension.
And I think it would have, you know, kept me in quite rosy health for the rest of my life, you know.
And in the end, Hatrick Productions offered me £200,000 to walk away from it.
And I refused because I'm not going to call myself a bigot after years of being called a bigot.
So I said, no, I'm not doing it.
And as a result, they've just sat on it.
It's making no money.
It's not going into production because, you know, the producers are cowards.
Your marriage suffered through this period.
You've got two kids, I think.
That must have been extremely difficult for you.
I mean, do you have any regrets?
Yeah, of course.
Do you have any regrets about the way that this whole battle you fought ended up costing you so much personal hell?
Only one regret.
You see, Jordan Peterson made a very good point.
He said, if you're going to get into this fight, always have a second form of income lined up.
And I didn't.
What happened was we were right to go.
We were about to go into production on Father Ted, and then COVID happened.
So there were two years of me just being destroyed online.
And after those two years, they just decided that I was too toxic to be associated with.
So, you know, I couldn't plan for COVID, sadly, you know, but that's the only thing I would have, I would have made sure I had a very healthy nest egg to fall back upon, you know.
But do you think your marriage would have survived if you hadn't had this battle with the trans activists?
Oh, yeah.
I was a family man, you know, and I was happy to be a family man for the rest of my life.
But this kind of forced me into a sort of new situation that I've been facing ever since.
Two Years of Online Destruction00:16:12
And, you know, it is what it is.
I found even people close to me would not listen to what was happening.
I don't know whether they didn't believe me or what, but it was very hard to explain to them, you know, this is not just a fashionable, harmless thing.
And it's not about transsexuals either.
Apparently, 90 to 95%, according to the last study made, of people who men who call themselves trans don't get any surgery.
So real transsexuals are being hidden amongst this, you know, giant mass of cross-dressers.
And cross-dressers are not women.
Transsexuals are not women either, but cross-dressers definitely aren't women.
You know, where did the word transvestites go?
That's what a lot of these men are.
So why are we suddenly having to believe that a self-selecting crowd of men are suddenly allowed to go into women's toilets?
It's insane.
And the women who have supported this, and I have to say, the vast majority of the fight against this has been fought by women.
And I'm so proud to be a TERF or on Team TERF, as we say.
But also, a lot of women have been pushing this.
A lot of professional women in the theater and in publishing, especially, have been pushing this, cancelling other people for fighting against it.
And I think they should be ashamed of themselves as well.
It's one of the biggest betrayals of their fellow women I can think of.
See, I've always taken the position that I absolutely respect people's right to identify as trans.
However, I want them to have the same rights to fairness, equality, safety as I do, and anybody else does, but not at the point that it erodes women's rights to any of those things, fairness, equality, and safety.
Yeah.
But some people say when they criticize you, Graham, that you are instinctively transphobic.
You just don't have any respect for anybody who identifies as trans.
And that's led to you feeling quite obsessively hateful towards them.
What do you say to that?
Well, all I can say is that, like, you know, there's a lot of women who, for very good reason, are very, very hardline on this issue.
And they are very angry with me for remaining friends with a few trans-identified men.
You know, I'm friends with Debbie Hayton, who I'm sure you've spoken to before, Fiona Rander, Miranda Sawyer.
No, not Miranda Sawyer, that's what else.
Miranda Yardi, I've forgotten her second name.
But like, they all don't mind me using male pronouns for them.
They totally understand.
They are totally rational.
They hate what the trans movement, the kind of fashionable trans movement, has done to their rights because they fought for years trying to achieve a certain level of rights that was comfortable for everybody.
Maybe not everybody.
Some people were worried about it.
But it was like a kind of a stalemate that made sense for everybody.
But now, you know, when men are insisting that they can walk into any female space, when they're insisting that they can play female sports, you know, that's a problem.
And there's very few areas where it is a problem.
You know, there's only like about five or six flashpoints where it is a problem.
So, yeah, as I say, all the people calling me transphobic, I bet I know more trans people than them, you know?
That's really.
Although I wouldn't say trans people, I would say trans-identified people.
Right, but that's interesting.
So you don't think you are transphobic?
No, not at all.
I don't even think the word makes sense because I don't think trans is real.
You know, trans used to mean transsexual.
That made total sense to me.
Now it means anyone who says they're a woman.
You know, you saw Laurie Penny, that hilarious interview with Laurie Penny you did, where she said she was non-binary and then couldn't explain it.
They're making it up as they go along.
And I don't like people like Laurie Penny trying to ride the coattails of real people who have real dysphoria and are suffering because of it.
They're just fashionable idiots.
And I don't think that they should be allowed to take on this identity that has nothing to do with them.
I want to just read you what The Guardian said about you last week as all this Fiori was blowing up.
I'll try and avoid these.
Well, I just want to get your reaction.
They said, in regards to you, others see monomania and at times cruelty.
He sent hundreds of tweets a day at times, often in the early hours.
In 2021, Lennon had set up a fake account on a dating account designed to connect women and queer people in order to publicly expose people over their use of pronouns.
He was dropped.
I'll let you respond to the bit.
There's only two more lines.
You can respond.
He was dropped in 2023 by his agent after describing the actor David Tennant as an abusive groomer after the Doctor Who star wore a t-shirt emblazoned with the words, leave trans kids alone, you absolute freaks.
I mean, what is your response to that characterization of you?
Well, first of all, first of all, The Guardian, as always on this issue, are lying.
Her social app, which I joined, is supposedly an app for lesbians.
And I noticed that a lot of men were joining the app and they were invading these lesbian spaces.
So I joined it simply to show how easy it was for men to do this.
You know, of course, The Guardian and other papers misrepresented this as me going into a queer space.
And it's a lie.
I was just trying to, I was standing up for lesbians, which they won't do.
Lesbianism now seems to be a dirty word.
As for the second point, what was the second point?
By David Tennant.
Oh, yeah.
David Tennant is apparently allowed to call us freaks, but we're not allowed to say, hey, there's no such thing as trans and you're confusing your child, which he is.
He's confusing his child.
There is no such thing as trans.
There's no such thing as a trans child.
And what we're facing is celebrities who seem to be trying to create a new aristocracy by decreeing their children so special that they can't be spoken about.
I think that's really harmful.
It's really damaging.
The youngest child to go into the Tavistock clinic was four years old.
I want to stop that from happening.
And I think everyone should want to stop that from happening, including David Tennant.
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The posts that got you into trouble, the main one was if a trans-identified male is in a female-only space, he is committing a violent abusive act.
Make a scene, call the cops, and if all else fails, punch him in the balls.
Now, I saw that as comedy, albeit quite crude comedy, and I would imagine some people genuinely would probably be quite offended by it.
But I think that comedy is often offensive.
And actually, in a world that has a democratic society like the UK, free speech dictates that you can be offensive, right?
People may not like it.
They might be offended.
But that doesn't mean you're not entitled to say this.
You can be held accountable for it, but not arrested for it.
Some people said, look, obviously a clear inducement to violence against trans people by saying punch him in the balls.
What's your response specific to that post?
I mean, it's so funny that they're angry about me saying punch them in the balls when they're pretending they're women.
You know, it's like, how could you punch a woman in the balls?
So it's like, it's ridiculous to me that they've taken on this fight.
And I'm kind of glad they have because the other thing about that tweet is that it's basic safeguarding advice for women.
You know, one of the powers that women have when a man comes into a female-only space is to make a scene.
And now it's been turned around so much that if a woman makes a scene, she is the one who's going to get arrested.
You know, women feel completely unprotected by the police in the UK at the moment.
And they are working for, in my case, a small gang of men who are behind so many of these complaints.
There was someone recently, an ex-policewoman, I'm sure you saw that story.
That's the same guy who's targeting me.
When I came to the UK for my trial and I was arrested, it was the same guy who had me arrested that's behind my trial.
So it's like, you know, people have been talking about, you know, police powers and all that sort of stuff.
That's not the point.
The point is the police are working for criminals.
The police are doing the bidding of these criminals.
And it's because this debate is so confusing that they're able to run rings around them.
You know, what was interesting to me, and I said this to you, I texted you to say this, that I felt like the mood around you changed quite dramatically after your arrest, that it was coming at a time when I think the whole woke worm, if you like, has turned and people have got far less accepting of being pressurized into thinking about these issues in a very narrow way, which if they deviate, you get cancelled.
And there was a sort of groundswell of real proper visceral support for you, led by the media, many of whom have been very censorious of you before.
But also, I imagine that manifested itself on the streets of the public.
How have you found the reaction on the streets?
Well, I've never been stopped so much.
I've never been thanked so much.
I've been getting thumbs up and horn beeps from cabbies.
It's been lovely.
And in fact, you know, after years of wanting to get out of the UK and get away from the people who are harassing me, I suddenly felt a bit melancholy about leaving.
But yeah, it's been lovely.
It's been a total turnaround.
And what's been great as well is seeing people start to piece together what I've been saying for years.
You know, that it's certainly not.
And I want to really make it clear, when I talk about trans activists, I'm really talking about the most vicious and active trans activists.
You know, I'm sure there's a lot of people who believe in trans rights, who are incredibly decent people, who think they're doing the right thing.
And all we ever wanted to do was show them it's a lot more complicated.
It's a lot simpler and more complicated than you think.
You know, a lot of these men who want to get into women's spaces are not just men, but the worst men in the world.
And they need to be stopped.
And, you know, you saw Isla Bryson.
You saw all these Scottish guy who kidnapped a little girl and tortured her and raped her for three days.
You know, he was only able to do so because she trusted him because he was dressed as a woman.
You know, this has to be stopped.
It has to be stopped.
And we have to make it unfashionable for this misogyny to continue.
At the moment, the Irish singer Rochine Murphy is getting it in the neck, you know, because of this.
She didn't say anything.
She wasn't like me, a bull in a China shop.
She was very polite.
She was worried about children and gender clinics and they're trying to destroy her career, you know?
So there's no volume low enough that you can speak about this issue without them trying to come at me.
Graham, where are you?
Where are you with your case over the arrest at Heathrow?
Where is that going?
Oh, that's hilarious, Piers.
The police, first of all, they gave me a bail condition that I wasn't allowed to go on Twitter.
Then they changed it to I wasn't allowed to contact the victims.
And if you look at those three tweets, there's no victim.
No one's mentioned.
So they somehow think that I'm going to be able to figure out who made the complaint.
But actually, the truth is, I did figure out who made the complaint.
It's the same guy who brought the police against.
Oh, actually, I can't talk about that.
I better stop.
Yeah.
Are you expecting to be charged with any crime?
On this new one?
Yes.
I don't think so.
I mean, I think even they know it's the biggest misstep they've ever made.
And, you know, if they continue with it, I'll just do my best to expose the police for working with these guys for the last eight years.
You know, they could have stopped them at any point.
One of them is a convicted fraudster who sexually assaulted a 14-year-old boy.
He was at my trial.
The more light I can pour on this, the better.
And if they continue with this, I'll just continue to do so.
President Trump is coming to the UK next week.
Would you like him to take up your case, maybe with the Prime Minister, with the King?
Perhaps he's got the state dinner coming.
I hope he does because I want to live in America.
Hopefully, I don't really feel, I definitely don't want to work with anyone in television in the UK again because none of them even so much as gave me phoned me up to see how I was.
So yeah, I'm hoping so.
And I do want to, like someone said to me the other day, are you worried you'll be used by the Trump administration, you know, to further their ends?
And my answer to that is use away.
Use away.
I really want to just destroy this movement.
I want to reveal what the police are doing in its benefit or whatever.
And anything that they can do to help would be really appreciated.
Do you have any qualms about the fact you're getting so much support in America from the kind of MAGA crowd, the sort of more right-wing crowd?
Well, it's very funny.
When I first, when I heard that Trump had won, I went into a sort of depression.
And then the next time he won, I was delighted because, you know, whatever his flaws and faults are, at least he knows what a woman is.
And I think knowing what a woman is is basic.
We've had politicians like Lisa Nandy in the UK saying that sex offenders should be let in women's prisons.
You know, anything, anything is better than people who believe that men are women.
So yeah, I don't mind at all.
And in fact, a lot of the what it has done over the last few years, Piers, is it's made me open to a far greater range of political opinions.
I see now that the left-wing press didn't just lie to us about trans, it lied to us about a whole host of issues.
And I'm hoping that, you know, I can kind of reveal all that simply by the attention being on me, you know.
How are you managing to be a dad, given you're now living in America?
Well, my kids are now college age.
They've moved out and we still stay in touch on Zoom.
They're coming over to visit me at the new year.
I come back often enough that I probably see them as much as I would have anyway if I was.
What do they make of what's happened to you?
They were so funny this week on the Zoom.
You know, they're just like, you know, they've been through so much, you know, as well, you know, including the sex offender I spoke about releasing our home address online that, you know, they're just kind of stung by it all, but amused, I think, that their father is a jailbird now, you know.
UK Prisons vs American Freedom00:15:57
Graham, final question.
Do you have any regrets about the last eight years?
Oh, only as I say that I didn't line up a second form of income.
If I'd done that, I might have been able to, you know, help my wife from not being so frightened at the loss of jobs and so on.
But the only regret I have really is trusting a lot of people who I thought were friends and who in the end turned out to be, you know, the very, very quintessence of fair weather friends.
As soon as this all started happening to me, they just never phoned again, you know.
So I wish I'd had better friends.
Graham Linehan, great to have you on our sensor.
Thank you very much.
Thank you, Piers.
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From arrests and even jail terms for poor taste tweets to a breakdown of law and order and out-of-control migration, the MAGA view of Britain is decidedly unflattering.
Outrage over the summer's raise the colours campaign and the arrest by armed police of comedian Graeme Linehan have only advanced a dark vision of the UK promoted by star podcasters like Tucker Carlson, Elon Musk and even the US Vice President JD Vance.
Many Brits do agree with at least some of the tone of this coverage.
However, others believe it's based on cynical falsehoods, racist motives, and the opportunism of using Britain to warn Americans not to drop their MAGA guard.
So who is right?
We'll hear you debate this.
Talk show host and commentator Owen Schroyer claims he too was prosecuted for speech during the January 6th riots.
Lawyer and uncensored contributor Paul LaRone Adrian, Conservative commentator Isabel Oakeshott, and the social media superstar Big John Bosch Fisher, also known as the Bosch father.
Welcome to all of you and particularly to you, John.
Been a fan of yours for a long time and your and your work on social media.
Thank you, Piers.
At least I know I've got one fan.
It's a pleasure to be here.
I didn't think I'd be here this afternoon.
So thank you very much for having me on.
Well, it's great to see you.
And the reason we wanted you on was I watched your interview with the BBC the other night and you hit, I think, just a great tone, which may have been a bit different to the tone some people might have expected from you from your stuff on social media.
They might have thought you kind of, I would say little England, but you're not little, obviously.
But you know what I mean?
That you would meet that kind of stereotype.
And actually, you hit a far more, I felt, far more tolerant tone in what you said.
And it was an important thing that you said.
What is your view, John?
For those of you who may not have seen that clip, but what is your view of where we are as a country right now?
I think we're in trouble times, if I'm being truthful, Piers, and sad times as well, because I'd rather see communities come together than being driven apart in which they are.
And you're right, we're seeing a lot of falsehoods online.
People don't know what to believe, and a lot of frustrations.
And when people are frustrated, they do things that they wouldn't normally do.
I would like to see people come together a bit more because we still are a great country and a great people, wherever we come from, whatever our backgrounds.
So, yeah, just a bit sad at the moment.
Sad times.
I talked to Tucker Carlson earlier this week and he was saying that Britain is now, to him, it's a sad place.
It's a disgusting place.
It's a suicidal place, making out there's a kind of apocalypse here.
And I'd have put it in right and say, I don't feel any of those things.
I'm very proud of my country, proud to live here.
But there's no doubt, John, that there is a feeling in the air that things just aren't right and that the government and successive governments haven't got a handle on some of the core problems.
Whether it's the number of people coming in illegally on the small boats that Keir Starmer said he would smash the gangs, and clearly hasn't.
He's just smashed new records for people coming in that way.
And so on, whether it's people being arrested for jokes on social media, which some people may find distasteful.
But actually, we're a democratic society, supposedly a grown-up one.
What are armed police doing, sweeping people up at airports for jokes on social media?
There's a lot going on that just, I think, makes people think, what are we becoming?
There is a lot going on, but I think it's heightened by social media.
We're in an age now where anything happens and it's portrayed and highlighted over and over again.
And there are certainly things we can improve on.
And you're right, Piers, I think it's down to the governments.
And it has been successive governments that have let our people down.
And I'm not sure at the moment any political party is there to fix it at the moment.
But I'm hopeful we're a great country.
We're a great people.
We've got a lot of clever people here.
So I'm hoping that people can use a lot of common sense, find a common ground, and start to come together.
Well said.
Let me bring in Owen Schroyer.
You're an ultra MAGA commentator.
You're not a fan of the way you believe the UK is going.
Explain why.
Well, I don't know how many people would consider me ultra MAGA now.
And Piers, normally I wouldn't concern myself with the affairs of the UK since we broke free of your authoritarians in 1776.
But it does seem what happens there ends up happening here as well.
And I know you were quite shocked going through some of your prep for this segment.
You said, was Owenschroyer prosecuted or persecuted for free speech?
No, I was prosecuted.
I was put in prison for my speech.
And you can read the court documents to see for yourself.
So I'm concerned that.
When I see people in the UK going to prisons for speech and then it comes to my country, well, all of a sudden, maybe I need to be concerned about what's going on in the UK.
But as far as your question is concerned, I have to agree with some of your opening commentary to America from an outsider's perspective.
Like you mentioned, Tucker Carlson, it does seem that Britain has fallen.
It does seem that England and the UK have fallen.
When I think about the concept of visiting Europe or touring Europe, I feel like what is there left to see?
I mean, there might be some images, there might be some buildings and some history, but is it really the same Europe?
Is it really the same culture?
Is it really the same people even?
I think it's a fair question to ask.
And many people don't even feel safe traveling to Europe anymore.
So of course they're not going to.
I see the same thing happening in my country now.
I think it is sad from a global perspective to think that all these different cultures around the world are all slowly morphing into the exact same thing.
And it feels like this is the concept of globalism coming to its conclusion.
No unique culture, no unique people, no unique place to go visit.
And yet that's what it appears is happening.
And then how dare you stand up and say something about it?
How dare you stand up and have an issue with it?
Because then the name-calling begins and the character assassination begins.
I think one case that is obviously widely covered is the Tommy Robinson case.
Here's a man who just tries to stand up for what he believes in and the issues he sees going on in his country.
And what does he have to endure?
Constant attacks, constant imprisonment, constantly just fighting for his freedom.
So I think that this is the righteous indignation that many Europeans are feeling right now.
And they just look to their leadership.
They look to their government and they don't see it there.
They don't see them there standing with them.
And so they're looking for other alternatives, Piers.
And what does that mean?
Well, a few things to unpack there.
And I will with my other guests, but just on a couple of points on Tommy Robinson, who is real name, Stephen Laxley, but I have repeatedly invited him to come on Uncensored and we could have a proper conversation about he has repeatedly bottled it.
I now call him bottle job on social media because he just won't do it.
He goes everybody else, but he won't do me.
And I think one of the reasons is that there is a perception in America that poor little Tommy has only been telling the truth about the UK.
And that's why he's been in prison recently.
Well, poor little Tommy was actually sued by a young Syrian refugee boy who sued him for lying about him.
Robinson was found to have lied by court, had to pay him £100,000.
Then he went and repeated all the lies, breaching a court order about the Syrian boy.
And that's why he was found in contempt of court, which he did completely deliberately, and he was put in prison.
That had nothing to do, for example, with the grooming gang scandal or anything else, where he's made some perfectly valid points.
But he's managed to persuade a lot of Americans that he's the kind of pie piper of free speech and that every time he tells the truth, he gets put in prison.
Not quite as straightforward as that.
So I think on that point, I think I wanted to put that on the record.
Secondly, in relation to you in your situation, you were arrested during the January the 6th riots.
You were down there at the Capitol.
Why do you think it was...
You shake your head.
Is that not true?
No, I was not arrested during the January 6th event.
I was arrested months afterwards in August of 2021.
No problem, Piers, just correcting the record.
Could just tell me exactly what was your role on January the 6th, just to clear that up.
Sure.
So I'll make this as quickly as possible out of respect for your guests.
I was there covering the event as a journalist.
I was there with my team at Infowars and Alex Jones.
You may or may not remember a segment you had with Alex Jones.
I remember him very well.
It may still be viral to this day.
So I was there covering it as a journalist.
There's been a lot of false reporting out there.
Like there was a standing agreement I had with the government that I wasn't allowed to go in D.C. or I wasn't allowed to be on Capitol Grounds.
These are false reports.
There were false reports that I didn't complete a community service from a prior speech charge against me.
I did.
All of these things were false.
I did not violate any probation.
I did not break any laws that day, except they claim a lesser misdemeanor trespassing charge on government property, which, as far as people are concerned, in the federal Bureau of Prison system, I was the first non-felon to ever serve time in a federal prison.
Let me repeat that.
A non-felon, me, for a lesser trespassing misdemeanor, spent months in a federal prison for a speech crime.
And they can claim it wasn't about speech, but it was.
If you look at the government documents, all the incidents that they used to throw me in prison were things that I said.
So, yes, I was in Washington, D.C. on January 6th.
I was covering the event.
I never touched a police officer.
I never went inside the Capitol building.
These are all false claims.
And so I'm not surprised that you might be confused in reporting this stuff because of all the false reports that have been out there.
So I'm glad you're giving me a chance to clear the record right now.
You have cleared that up.
Let me bring in Paula.
The country's collapsing.
It's sad.
It's disgusting.
It's suicidal.
We're all done for.
Your thoughts.
I don't recognize any of that.
And it's really disappointing to hear somebody who purports to be educated to be repeating such things, to be saying such things, to be spouting them across social media, which is very much the problem.
And Piers, I'm so glad actually that you've invited me on today because you know that we debate many topics about this great nation, but we never really get an opportunity to say the wonderful, marvelous things about this country.
And particularly at a time where we are seen on social media, where we are hearing so much negativity that is, of course, baseless.
And what's it fueled by?
It's fueled by anger.
It's fueled by aggression.
It's fueled by frustration.
As if those things propel it onto Planet Fact, when, of course, it doesn't.
It doesn't even allow it to orbit Planet Fact.
And it's so important that we hear all voices.
And of course, we don't get everything right.
But, you know, this is a great nation.
How do you feel when people are being arrested for jokes?
So what I feel is that if you want us to debate policing, if you want us to debate laws and their relevance, free speech is what I'm saying.
Then let's do that.
No, no, but we're not locked down a country, a great country, which is based on and gave birth to the rule of law.
Yes, but Paula, this is the problem: is that one of the reasons I don't recognize my own country, even though I love living here and very proud to be British, one of the problems I have is I cannot believe my eyes when I hear that five armed policemen are arresting comedians at airports for jokes posted on social media.
It's ridiculous.
Do you think it's ridiculous?
They were armed because police officers at airports.
There are lots of unarmed policemen at airports.
They were armed at the airport.
There are many unarmed policemen at the airport too.
Completely fatuous arguments.
And so.
Do you agree with the principle of people being arrested by armed police for jokes?
I agree with the principle that if you are deemed to have broken the law, then the police should arrest.
What law did he break right in?
What laws did he break with those jokes?
I wasn't the arresting officer.
You've read the jokes.
I wasn't the arresting officer.
You've read the jokes, Paul.
Wasn't the arrest.
You read the jokes.
If you're asking me whether I agree that he should be arrested or not, if you're asking me whether I agree that he should be investigated, then I have to say I am.
I'm in difficulty and I would be.
So you don't agree.
I i'm in difficulty, I would be.
It's too woke, even for you.
That's nothing to do with being woke peers, and you understand what the definition of woke is.
It's not it's.
It's not about this.
Being woke peers, which is just.
It's a kind of is actually this is.
This is about whether the police acted appropriately, and we know what the stats are in relation to the police acting inappropriately when, for example, when we talk about black males uh, and stop now, you're playing waterbrook.
We know, we know about those statistics, and so that's not part of this debate.
Of course, we accept.
Before I go to Isabel, one more quick before.
So I think that was your long, convoluted way of saying you agree with me, which is great.
Before we go to Isabel um, I just want to ask you about the other thing that is inflaming tensions in the Uk because, as a somebody you used to happily identify as liberal again, I cannot accept what is happening with these small boats.
It is completely ridiculous that we have record numbers of people just careering over here over the channel and coming into the country illegally, and then successive governments putting them in fancy hotels and giving them all the things that many people living in Britain legally are incapable of enjoying.
That that is just completely wrong and it's putting huge pressure on our infrastructure, huge pressure on our services, that the NHS is falling apart.
Both my parents have had serious uh things.
One had a heart attack, one broke six ribs.
Both went to the same a e in an 18 month period and both had to sit or lie on a trolley in a corridor for over eight hours with loads of other people lying on corridors.
This is, this is Britain in 2025.
It is outrageous.
Britain in 2025: Corridor Chaos00:15:01
And yet they have to pick up the paper like everybody else and see that if you come over illegally on a boat, you get put in a nice hotel.
This is completely wrong.
Do you agree?
It's completely wrong?
Uh no, I don't I I I, I barely agree I barely, I barely agree with anything that you've just said.
Which part?
And there was so much feeling?
Give me one part you don't agree with.
I, I don't agree um, that they are people who are being put up in luxury hotels.
Well, they are well, peers.
What happens, what happens is is that successive, they literally are being put in luxury hotels.
I appreciate that you're shouting at me, but you're facts.
I appreciate you're shouting at me, but you're shouting at me because you know that ultimately, i'm going to say something that you're going to have to agree with peers.
What is happening?
What is happening is is that we have unregulated uh, immigration?
I accept that we have unregulated.
Where are they being put?
Unregulated immigration because successive governments have failed to provide for legal routes for people to claim asylum.
Where are they being put?
The only thing that they can do is to pay smugglers to get them across the border, where they can then legally claim asylum.
Where are they being put?
The only places that are available for them to be put is via companies who buy up hotels, and then the companies Place the refugees, the potential asylum seekers in hotels.
And who's paying for that?
But it's the companies paying for that.
So the companies are making millions from the government because of that.
Paula, who pays for that?
Absolutely millions.
Paula, don't keep it.
Where I can agree with you, is that the system is broken in what we do.
I feel like I'm going completely nuts because nothing you've said contradicts anything I said.
They are being put into nice hotels at taxpayer expense.
We pay for the home office.
That is happening.
They are there illegally.
It is wrong and it is causing tension.
And nothing you've said, you said you disagree with everything I said.
You've actually agreed with all of it.
Isabel, I want to bring Isabel in.
Isabel, you, I know, are a proud patriot, but you have left the country and now live in Dubai.
So, first of all, absolutely.
I'd forgotten how absolutely ridiculous Paula is, much as I love her.
That was ludicrous.
I mean, where do we begin with that?
Yes, cards on the table.
I think things are so bad in the UK that I have literally left.
I have done something incredibly radical in my own mind because I love my country.
I am British and it will always be my home.
But I have taken my children out of the UK and I'm now educating them in the Middle East where they get a traditional British education without any of the trans bollocks and woke ideology.
So, you know, I'm very proud of that decision.
It's a very proactive way of dealing with a situation that you can't immediately change.
But I don't recognize everything that Tucker Carlson said.
The one word he didn't use actually was angry.
And I think Britain is a very angry place at the moment.
And I think it is very divided.
And I don't really want to live in a place that is so angry all the time.
And it's angry, I'm afraid, because of people like Paula who are in complete denial, absolute barefaced denial about the facts, which are exactly as you said,
that we are allowing thousands of people, sometimes thousands in a matter of days, undocumented people who have come through perfectly safe countries and they are coming across the channel for a luxury existence at taxpayer expense.
And that is completely outrageous.
And what is fueling more anger is that some of them, a small percentage, but some of them are then committing horrendous crimes, sex crimes, against people when they get here, right?
And I'm sorry, again, that is bound to inflame a lot of anger and tension in communities when they know that these people have come in on these boats day after day after day in huge increasing numbers and they're being put up in nice hotels and then they're committing crimes.
It is a three-pronged guaranteed way to enrage the average Brit who I think looks at this and goes, this is just not fair.
Let me bring John back in because you're, I think you'd seem a very decent guy to me, John.
I've enjoyed your stuff on social media, never met you.
But am I right about this?
Is it these things that are upsetting people?
When you talk to people in your community, what is the sense you're getting about what is fueling a lot of the anger?
Listen, I'm a normal English chap, married father of four, and you do talk to a lot of people and there is a lot of anger about asylum seekers.
And there's no hiding from the fact that we do have a problem.
And it's our best to sort that problem out.
And it seems to be whatever way you look at it, we can't sort that problem out.
And people are angry over that.
Because I had an argument, John, with Tucker Carlson, for example, about multiculturalism.
Actually think that the Uk and the Us.
I spend a lot of time in the Us, I have a home in America and I flip between the two.
I don't think there are two better examples of multicultural uh countries where they have been as tolerant and encouraging to multiculturalism as the Us and Uk.
And I think that is still the case, and I don't worry about my culture being consumed and overtaken.
But but do you pick that up from people?
Do you think people are genuinely concerned now that that the way the country is going is changing so rapidly that the multiculturalism we've always enjoyed and become world renowned for our tolerance and fairness and welcoming to people?
Is that beginning to get damaged now?
I don't.
I don't think people are worried about losing their Englishness.
We, we're still English, we're still British um, but I do think people are worried about too, you know losing, losing some sort of identity, and that's the anger that's coming out on the streets.
But I think the anger is more at the politicians in our country, because no one seems to be standing up for British people like the pensioners.
You know, the first thing Gearstarma did when he got pensioners yeah, was whack the pens and the farmers, and it's the pensioners that we should be protecting above everybody else in this country.
Yes, but listen, I don't know what the answer is.
A lot of cleverer people than me don't know what the answer is, but there's got to be some way of sorting it out, but sorting it out in a logical way, coming together and talking about it.
Yes, because we are a multicultural country there's no denying that and we have a lot of good things from other parts of the world that made our country better and we don't want to stop that.
But we also you've got to look after British people as well.
There's a lot of people struggling, a lot of veterans struggling, a lot of old age pensioners struggling, so we've got to find a way of helping other people as well.
Yeah, I mean Paula, you know, do you accept that sometimes you do sound like you're in total denial about some of these core issues which people really do care about?
I mean you and I have debated the trans women in sport issue, for example, which you know just almost everybody i've ever talked to right, who's not got a sort of skin in the game agrees with me about that, that it's just completely unfair and wrong and shouldn't have been happening.
If you come around.
I've got a book called Woke is dead coming out in a few weeks, because I genuinely feel the vast majority of people have just had enough of this stuff.
But are you, are you able to look at that like Malcolm Gladwell did, for example, this week about that very issue, and admit he was completely wrong?
So the issue with trans and trans women in sports is a very nuanced and complicated one really.
It's very simple.
It's a very nuanced and complicated um, and the issue around the science behind it is still being debated.
It really boils down to whether you don't want to get into that.
What I do want to do, it's not being debated.
What I do want to do is just respond to yourself about whether i'm in the world.
You can't say things which are clearly wrong.
It has been settled now.
Even the prime minister has worked out well in terms of the law.
The Supreme Court has worked out absolutely and actually we all know that professional sports or you're talking about amateur sports, or It is obviously wrong.
What I'm saying to you is that I don't want...
We're not going to debate this now.
What I'm doing is...
If you're going to make a definitive statement that it's all still being debated, it's not.
My point is, most people understand it is completely wrong and unfair and physically dangerous for people who were born biologically male to compete in women's sport.
If they want to identify as trans, not a problem with me.
If they want me to call them... you know, she, her, not a problem.
But the moment it erodes women's rights, big problem.
And that has been the problem with that issue from the start.
And I think when a brain the size of Malcolm Gladwell's is big enough to go, I was completely wrong.
Far bigger than that.
Then a brain like yours, equally large, should be able to say, you know what, Piers, I was just wrong.
So we're not talking about, for example, safe spaces for women, which you know I'm an absolute advocate for, and you know in my absolute advocate.
Let's talk about trans athletes and sports.
So we're not talking about that.
Trans athletes in women's sport.
And in terms of transport.
Do you still think it's right or not?
In terms of transport.
Is it right or not, Paul?
In terms of trans athletes in sport, I have not got a brain as big as Malcolm Gladwell.
What I understand that professional bodies have done is they've taken the scientific approach and have measured it on the basis of testosterone.
I don't have a problem with the professional bodies taking that scientific approach.
I certainly don't have a problem with the decision that the Supreme Court makes.
That does not mean that I do not support the doll.
That does not mean I cannot also support safe spaces for women.
It doesn't have to be binary.
Let me tell you, you don't have safe spaces for women by allowing six foot, five inch bearded bloats into their locker rooms, do you?
I can agree with you that in that kind of circumstance, it may not be a safe space for women.
But can we just talk about whether I am completely in denial about the topic in relation to the UK and whether we are in a hellhole?
Well, I don't think we're in a hellhole, but I do think we've got big problems which successive governments have been abject in their failure to deal with.
And I can totally agree with you on that.
Where I would then step further is to then say, why is it the fault of people who have just stepped foot in this country?
Why is it the fault of the most vulnerable people?
Who are these people?
Why is it the fault of the most vulnerable people in society?
That is where you and I are going to disagree.
Paula, when you say the most...
This isn't about being put up in a hotel.
Paula.
We discovered that.
This is about successive governments failing the country.
That's what this is about.
When you say the most vulnerable people, you are aware.
In the world, right.
So you are aware that a year ago we discovered that a third of all the people who come in the year before into this country on small boats were young Albanian fit men from a country that is not a war-torn country.
So they're not the most vulnerable people in the world.
They are people on the make for a better life economically in our country.
And when people like you, with all due respect, you bang this drum and say they're all vulnerable, needy people, they're not.
And so there's a demonstrable process.
You are talking about an abusive process, which I would say.
By 15,000 of the...
I would obviously agree with you that are permitting that.
We don't argue with where we find an abusive process, but we find that abusive process and we manage it.
The problem comes when you say leave all these tall, vulnerable people alone.
Exactly.
We know a large number of them are young economic male migrants who are not from war-torn countries.
That is the problem.
And I believe in an asylum system if it is regulated properly and it works and it genuinely looks after those who are genuinely oppressed and come from war-torn countries.
Isabel, final word to you about this.
What hope is there for the UK?
Give me some hope.
And then I go to Owen for a final word.
I'd have to get very party political.
The hope is that there are elections in three or four years' time, by which time I do fear a great deal of damage will have been done.
But the other bit of hope is that the country is in such a red-hot, boiling mad mood that this appalling government may actually have to do something about some of it.
At the very least, the small boats.
The free speech stuff really, really worries me.
You know, we've highlighted the case of a comedian, but there are cases every day of people who don't have platforms like that comedian.
For example, a guy who said, We love bacon outside the site of a proposed mosque and found himself arrested for a racial-related crime.
Well, it's got nothing to do with race, does it?
Bacon, absolutely ridiculous.
Another one recently looks very much as if someone was arrested for calling someone else a Muppet.
Yeah, I saw it.
This is dark, dark stuff.
Yeah.
And I have no confidence that this government will truly tackle it.
Okay.
I want to end, Owen, because I want to play the clip.
This is of your former boss, Alex Jones, shouting at me on CNN in the clip that you referenced earlier.
The tyrants did it.
Hitler took the guns.
Stalin took the guns.
Mao took the guns.
Fidel Castro took the guns.
Hugo Chavez took the guns.
And I'm here to tell you: 1776 will commence again if you try to take our firearms.
Doesn't matter how many limmings you get out there on the street, begging for them to have their guns taken.
We will not relinquish them.
Do you understand?
That's why you're going to fail.
And the establishment knows no matter how much propaganda, the Republic will rise again when you attempt to take our guns.
Pierce, don't try what your ancestors did before.
Why don't you come to America?
I'll take you out shooting.
You can become an American and join the Republic.
As yet, I haven't actually joined the Republic, but the reason I played that clip is until this point, I thought that was the most he shouted at somebody.
And then, of course, Owen, you left his organization and he began shouting at you.
Let's take a look.
You think Alex Jones, the last 12 months, leveled up?
Well, guess what?
The next level's here.
And if you want to fight, you better believe you got one.
Anybody.
But if you sucked off my kits like the wolf that fed Romulus and Ramus, and I've done nothing but giving you support.
And make no mistake, for 10 years, Owen Schroyer's been sucking off the InfoWars kit.
And then you want to try to stab your mother in the back because you're a big boy leaving the nest.
Respectful Debate on Middle Ground00:03:58
Well, guess what?
You know what your mother is going to do?
Piss on you.
I just want to say, Owen, I'm here for you.
And I'm a living representation.
I think there is life after being shouted at by Alex Jones, and it can be extremely pleasurable and very, very much softer on your ears.
Do you have a final word for Alex you'd like us to share?
I really enjoyed my time at InfoWars.
It was a great time.
I have nothing but peace and love in my heart.
Whatever is bothering Alex, I hope that he finds peace.
I don't think it has anything to do with me.
I don't know why he decided to have this crash out.
Other than that, it's been nothing but positivity.
It's been nothing but positivity from everybody else in my world except one person.
But, you know, Piers, if you don't mind, I'd like to close on something else here.
You know, I find it incredible that we're taking anybody's opinion seriously that won't be honest about the difference between a man and a woman.
I think that it's incredibly shocking that we would even humor anybody's opinion like that.
And then you notice that she goes one step further and she says, well, what about the migrants?
What about the asylum seekers?
Do you mean poorly?
Are you referring to that?
What about your own citizens?
I didn't disrupt you.
Please be quiet.
What about your own citizens?
Isn't this the problem?
Isn't this the problem that people in Europe and America are having?
We're sick and tired.
What is this idea that somehow somebody gets to come to your country from across the planet and get everything for free and they have some right to do it?
And then you're not even allowed to be upset or criticize it?
What is this concept?
It's a foreign concept.
It is a subversive concept and it is a destructive concept.
And peers, even though your liberal bleeding heart might say, hey, we want to be multicultural.
We want to be tolerant.
And I think for the most part we do, you have to admit it's resulted in violent crime.
It's resulted in the rape of women.
And we certainly cannot tolerate these things.
And so we have to stand up and say, look, we have led the way as Westerners, and we have led the way when it comes to tolerance.
And we have led the way when it comes to people wanting to call it multiculturalism, diversity, whatever you want to call it.
We've led the way.
But you know what?
It's hurt us.
It's hurt our people.
It's hurt our future.
And we're sick and tired of being told we have to put up with it.
And we're sick and tired of liberals stepping into the fray and saying, no, you just have to accept it.
No, we don't.
We don't have to accept it.
Life was better before it.
And I think that now that we've tried this experiment, we've seen that it's failed.
Okay, very quick response from Paula.
So, Owen, and I took the time to learn your name and will use it because that's what the respectful thing is to do.
And I'm not going to shout at you.
And I'm not going to holler at you.
And I'm not going to berate you and belittle you and demean your argument because I respect the fact that that's what you do to your own people, what the opening is.
Now you're interrupting me.
And what you did was you shouted at me when I tried to interrupt you just to clarify whether you knew my name or not.
So what I am going to say to you is, is that I haven't denied biology and I don't know why you thought that I did.
And I just listen to what you just said.
And now you're interrupting me again.
And actually, there isn't that much that we disagree on in terms of why it's important for us to find a middle ground and that we can do that by debating.
There is no middle ground.
We cannot do that.
There's man and woman.
There is no middle ground.
You're interrupting me again.
We can do that.
But you're speaking nonsense.
We can do that by having polite discourse, by understanding and learning where each other is coming from.
Of course, there is a middle ground.
And to suggest that there isn't a middle ground means that it's only your way or the highway.
And that simply isn't true.
There's biology.
There's a man and a woman.
There is no middle ground.
Owen, we've moved past that now.
We've actually moved past that.
You know what?
We've actually moved to the end of this.
Science doesn't change.
We've moved to the end of the episode.
I think I've always wanted to do this.
John, I'm going to give you the final word.
You can only use one word.
I'd like you to use the word that you are world famous for.
Piers Morgan Closes the Show00:00:39
Can you please close out this episode of Piers Morgan Uncensored in the only way that you know best?
Bash!
Have a choice.
Thank you all very much.
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