Piers Morgan, Destiny, and Mark Epstein dissect the Texas floods, where Kerr County rejected ARPA funds due to conspiracy theories about Biden stealing homes, while Senator Ted Cruz defends his remote aid coordination against accusations of negligence. The panel debates whether "Doge" cuts hampered weather alerts or if God killed children using NordVPN, a claim Morgan defends as highlighting rural hypocrisy. Mark Epstein joins to argue Jeffrey Epstein was murdered in prison due to missing camera footage and conflicting statements from Bill Barr, challenging the administration's suicide ruling amidst broader skepticism about covering up powerful figures. Ultimately, the episode exposes deep partisan fractures in disaster response and the urgent need for transparency regarding Epstein's death. [Automatically generated summary]
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The Missing Minute Mystery00:02:54
I think Jeffrey Epstein was a sexual predator.
Look, I want them to release everything.
Every adult who was culpable and responsible, I think the public should know.
Do you think President Trump has something to do with Epstein, your brother being killed?
I wouldn't write that off.
I heard God killed those kids because they were using NordVPN, promo code DESTINY, to get around the Texas porn ban.
On reflection, do you think that was grotesquely tasteless thing to be posting?
Absolutely not.
The hand wringing, the hand ringing here, oh my God, stop.
You're not going to sit here and argue about jokes when these guys are spreading lies.
When it happens in LA, when it's about the wildfires, you guys make jokes when we're not a significant killer.
If you understood the size of the town, which you don't, because you don't care, because you're literally trying to make money off of dead people, Google the size of the Comfort Texas City Hall.
You can't fit hundreds of people in any meeting there, you moron.
Attorney General Pam Bondi is facing intensifying bipartisan pressure for the calamitous handling of the Epstein files.
Bondi claimed the so-called Epstein client list, which many imagined as a record of high-profile abuses he'd blackmailed, was sitting on her desk.
The administration now says there is no list, there was no blackmail, and that the release of prison videotapes proves he took his own life.
Well, that video skips forward by full minute, fueling even more speculation, for which he offered this rather torturous explanation.
The minute missing from the video, we released the video showing definitively the video was not conclusive, but the evidence prior to it was showing he committed suicide.
And what was on that, there was a minute that was off the counter.
And what we learned from Bureau of Prisons was every year, every night, they redo that video.
It's old from like 1999.
So every night the video is reset and every night should have the same minute missing.
So we're looking for that video to release that as well, showing that a minute is missing every night.
And that's it on Epstein.
That's not likely to be it on Epstein for Bondi or anybody else in the administration.
For those who've demanded answers for years, spurred on by the very people now in office who are saying there simply aren't any.
It's a fundamental issue of trust.
President Trump has made clear he's sick of it all.
Are you still talking about Jeffrey Epstein?
This guy's been talked about for years.
You're asking, we have Texas, we have this, we have all of the things.
And are people still talking about this guy, this creep?
That is unbelievable.
We are going to talk about this creep.
Later on, I'll interview his brother, Mark Epstein, who has some explosive insights onto the DOJ's conclusions.
But we begin with the utter devastation in Texas and the deadly flash floods that have killed more than 100, with these 160 still missing in a single county.
Systematic Search for Victims00:04:07
Frantic search and rescue operations are ongoing as we speak.
Democrats are attempting to tie their response to government cuts.
In a moment, we'll introduce the panel to debate all this.
But first, I'm joined by Texas Senator Ted Cruz, making his debut on Uncensored.
Senator, welcome to you.
Piers, great to be with you.
Thank you for having me.
It's great to have you on.
Thank you very much.
First of all, where are we with this?
We know that over 100 people have been very sadly killed here.
We know that another 170 or more remain missing.
Is there any hope at this stage, Senator?
Do you think that you're going to find people alive?
Well, listen, there's always hope, but obviously the further along you get, every hour, every day, the odds go down.
The confirmed fatalities is over 100, as you noted.
There are 165 known people that are missing.
We don't know everyone that's missing.
One of the problems is this was the 4th of July weekend.
This is a very popular vacation spot.
You had people camping, people who don't live in Kirk County who came there, were camping by the river.
We're celebrating the 4th of July.
you had people in RVs, we had RVs, dozens of them just swept into the river and so they don't have a complete list of who is missing but it's just a question of systematic search and it's both aerial search using helicopters, it's ground search, there are teams that are systematically covering the area and then it's also using canines to discover.
Tragically, most of what is being discovered now are bodies of people who have deceased and Of those 100, we know at least 29 of them were girls and counselors at Camp Mystic.
And I'll tell you on Monday, I was there on the ground in the hill country.
I was at Camp Mystic.
I got to tell you what I saw at the camp.
It may be the most horrible thing I've ever seen in my life.
The Guadalupe River is a beautiful river.
And just, I don't know if you've ever been in this part of Texas, Pierce, but it's central Texas.
It's the hill country.
And it's widely considered the prettiest part of the state.
There are rolling hills and canyons and these gorgeous rivers.
And so you have lots of summer camps, about 40 summer camps, because it's a great place to vacation.
And kids, I've been swimming in that river and floating in that river dozens of times.
And normally it's beautiful and peaceful.
In the early mornings of July 4th, in the early morning hours, over 1.8 trillion gallons of water fell on that river and it rose about 30 feet.
And at Camp Mystic, the cabins are hundreds of yards away from the river, but it rose so fast that the girls' cabins had about eight feet of water in them.
You could see the water line in the cabins and it swept all the furniture out.
It blew the windows out and tragically killed a significant number of campers, especially the younger ones.
There's one cabin right in the middle that was called the Bumble Inn, and it was a cabin of third grade girls.
And outside that cabin, there are 17 small white Latin crosses in the ground with the names of each of the girls on them.
And at this point, every girl in that cabin is either confirmed dead or is missing right now.
I'll tell you, two of those little girls go to school with my daughter.
One of them lived literally a block away from me in Houston.
And so in Texas, our hearts are broken right now.
This tragedy, and the entire country, the entire world is watching every parent.
It's every parent's nightmare to lose a child in a tragedy like this.
And we appreciate the outpouring of love.
We appreciate the prayers from across the world for these moms and dads who are grieving with unspeakable pain.
It's a desperate story.
I've got a daughter of 13, and obviously the first thing you do, you just reflect on if that happened to you, your family, to your friend.
It's just, it is an unimaginable tragedy.
Unimaginable Tragedy in Texas00:10:04
Let's just talk about the criticism that's come in, leveled by some Democrats, that this somehow the blame for this can be directly associated to Doge cuts at the National Weather Service and so on.
You've had four days to look at this now.
From what you've seen, is there anything to suggest that anything more could have been done?
And is there anything to suggest that any of the cuts that have either been made this year or are due to come in later this year, could any of this process have had a negative detrimental effect, which if it hadn't happened, could have stopped this tragedy being as bad as it is?
Yeah, I don't think there's any evidence that the Doge cuts had any connection to what happened here.
They're obviously and absolutely things that could have been done better.
and those are questions we need to be asking right now.
Listen, whenever you have a natural disaster, whether a hurricane or a tornado or flooding, you sometimes get partisans who try to score political points.
And if you see a hurricane, there are those on the left who will say it's Donald Trump's fault, no matter what happens.
I think that's inappropriate.
I think we ought to be focusing on getting people out of harm's way.
With respect to the Doge cuts, in this instance, the National Weather Service, number one, predicted this event, put out an emergency alert shortly after 1 a.m., shortly after 4 a.m.
So those alerts went out.
Number two, the office that had responsibility for this area was based in New Bronfels, which is also in central Texas right there.
The night of July 3rd and the morning of July 4th, they were anticipating an extreme weather event.
So not only were they fully staffed, but they had three additional staff members they brought in to prepare for that.
So they had more than ample resources on the ground to deal with it.
And in fact, if you look at the National Weather Service Union, which has been very critical of the Doge cuts, they don't like the Doge cuts.
The National Weather Service Union has said publicly those cuts had no impact on reducing, hurting the National Weather Service's ability to predict this outcome.
And so the union would have every incentive if they could blame it on the Doge cuts to do so, and they're saying it's not.
Now, in any natural disaster, there's an order to how things play out.
The first priority is search and rescue.
It's just getting people out of harm's way, saving lives.
We are reaching the end of that period, but that has been the principal phase we've been in.
The next phase is recovery.
And recovery and rebuilding, that takes months or years.
There are homes that have been devastated, billions of dollars.
That's going to be an ongoing process.
But the third thing that will play out in the next months and years, it is a careful retrospective, examining the precise timeline, what happened, and asking what lessons can be learned.
What can we do differently?
And I'll say, look, as an obvious matter, if you and I could step in a time machine right now and we could go back to two in the morning on July 4th, we would both run to those cabins and get those little girls out of there.
I mean, all of us wish those girls were not in harmed way.
And we'd also run to the RV camps where all the people were sitting in RVs by the riverbank and get them out of there and remove, try to help the vulnerable people leave.
And so one challenge when an alert goes out at one in the morning or four in the morning, most people are asleep or four in the morning.
And so I think it is a very reasonable question to ask how can we be more effective at getting those alerts where people hear them.
And one idea that's been discussed that I think makes a lot of sense is having a system of sirens and alarms along the riverbank.
You see that in parts of Texas where tornadoes are prevalent.
A tornado like a flash flood can occur very quickly and that alarm can give you minutes to get out of harm's way.
I think it makes a lot of sense to look at a similar system here along the Guadalupe River.
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Yeah, because it seems to me there must be, I've not been to this region.
It sounds utterly beautiful.
Friends of mine have been there say it's just a staggeringly beautiful place.
But as you say, when a natural disaster like this happens, it happens very, very quickly.
I would imagine, I don't know, but I've read reports suggesting a lot of the cell phone coverage can be patchy around this.
If you're getting a text message warning system, that's going to be pretty unreliable.
And the siren system, it seemed to me, seemed to me a very logical thing which would have made a big difference.
And I guess the question that comes following that train of thought is, why was it not already in place?
Yeah, look, I think that is a fair question.
You know, I'll say the cell phone coverage, particularly in this part of Texas, is very spotty.
Like you, I have two teenage daughters, and my girls have been going to camp in Kirk County, in the Hill Country, for a decade.
Actually, my wife, Heidi, was there picking up our youngest daughter, Catherine, the week before this happened.
She had just finished camp.
And, you know, immediately when that, Catherine's 14, I'll tell you, I just hugged her and Caroline when this happened because you just think there but for the grace of God go I.
That could easily have been our daughters.
And I've spent the last several days talking to moms and dads who lost their daughters and just the agony of that.
Not only do you have really lousy cell coverage there, but for the camps, and there are about 40 camps in Kirk County.
This is a very popular place for both girls' camps and boys' camps.
Almost all the camps make the kids leave their cell phones at home.
So the kids, by and large, don't have cell phones, which means you've got only the counselors and a handful of adults that have cell phones.
And so we need to have, and I expect at the local level, the state level, and the federal level, I expect we're going to have very serious conversations about how we improve the emergency communication and response, because obviously here we suffered a catastrophic loss of life.
Senator, you've been criticized by some that you were on a family holiday in Greece when this happened, and that more than 24 hours after the Guadalupe River burst its banks, you were seen with your wife lining up outside the Parthenon in Greece.
And I've seen your explanation.
You were on a family holiday.
You said you made immediate calls and you made plans to come back as soon as you could.
I guess my one question for you, as always, as you know, because you've had this situation before when you were on a family holiday once during a massive storm in Texas and got criticized for not coming back.
With hindsight, would you have preferred not to have been photographed queuing up to see the Parthenon?
Would it have been a better optic not to have carried on doing holiday things?
Listen, in today's world, you always have people engaging in political attacks and throwing rocks, and I think that's unfortunate.
I was on a pre-planned family vacation with my wife and daughters.
We were already in Europe there when this occurred.
You know, I'll tell you, most 4th of July, I try to go on vacation with my kids and spend time with my kids.
That's the same is true of millions of people.
When this crisis occurred, it was horrific, and we were watching the facts unfold.
Within hours, I was on the phone with Texas Governor Greg Abbott.
I was on the phone with Texas Lieutenant Governor Dan Patrick.
I was on the phone with Nim Kidd, who is the head of the Texas Department of Emergency Management.
And then I called President Trump.
And this was early on as the facts were still unfolding about the flooding.
And I told the president, I said, Mr. President, we don't know all the facts yet.
We don't know exactly what has happened, but we know this looks bad.
This could be very, very bad.
There could be a very significant loss of life.
And I said, we need to make sure that every federal resource and asset possible is deployed.
And the president said, he said, Ted, anything Texas needs?
The answer is yes.
And so in the hours that this flooding was unfolding, we had over a dozen helicopters in the air.
We had Coast Guard helicopters in the air, National Guard helicopters in the air, and Texas DPS.
And we had game wardens.
They carried out over 850 high water rescues.
And so there was extraordinary heroism.
And now we're working hand in hand with families.
I was within hours of this talking to parents whose daughters had gone missing.
We're working with state and local officials.
We're working with FEMA to get federal resources there.
And so all of that, if you're halfway around the world, you do it by phone.
And then I got on a plane Sunday morning and flew back.
And it takes a whole day to get back.
And so I got in Sunday evening and was there by 7 a.m. Monday morning in Kerr County and spent the entire day there on the ground.
Working Hand in Hand with Families00:04:37
And so those who want to play politics with this, they can do that.
My focus is on the crisis that is unfolding on the ground and doing everything we can to help those who are hurting right now in Texas.
It was reported, and maybe you can just clear this up.
An eyewitness said that you, as you were lining up for the path, somebody walked past.
This eyewitness said that they said to you, 20 kids dead in Texas and you take a vacation.
He sort of grunted and walked on.
His wife shot me a dirty look.
They continued on their tour guide.
Did that conversation happen?
Not that I know of, but apparently this was some angry left-wing person who said that.
I didn't hear anyone say that, but apparently this individual believes they did.
The grunt they heard from me, I have nothing to say about that.
I don't recall, I did not hear anyone say that.
But listen, we live in a world that is really polarized.
And so people engage in hate on both sides that I think is really unfortunate.
One of the consequences of serving in public life, look, I see lots of people and sometimes people say really good things.
I sort of joke that people often will raise a finger to me.
Sometimes it's a thumbs up.
Sometimes it's a different finger.
And that's, you know, that's just sort of the polarized world we live in.
But I wish both sides would show a little bit of grace and treat each other with more humanity.
And so there are people on the Democrat side of the aisle I disagree with, but I try very hard not to attack, not to demonize them.
As you know, I do a podcast every week called Verdict with Ted Cruz.
We do the podcast three days a week.
And one of the things we do, we've taken the podcast on a lot of college campuses.
And we'll have college students.
We'll open it up to 90 minutes of Q ⁇ A.
And I'll tell you, Piers, my rule when we do that is I say, look, if you have a hostile question, if you have an antagonistic question, come to the front of the line.
And we're going to have a constructive civil conversation.
We may disagree, but I think all of us need to talk to each other more rather than the world we live in now of just hating each other and throwing insults, I think is really counterproductive.
I totally agree.
And in fact, funny enough, when you had your sort of dust up as it was reported, but actually it was a really interesting conversation in you and Tucker Carlson.
I like that conversation.
I think you should have robust conversations.
And all right, it gets tripped up and things go viral and people take their kind of tribal positions.
But actually, you need more of that.
People getting in a room and having sometimes polar opposite opinions, but thrashing it out.
You only came on to talk about the floods, and I don't want to abuse that.
I just can't, given we're basically building the show around this.
I just wanted to ask you one question about something else, and it's about these Epstein files.
A lot of people very angry that after being led to the water's edge of a belief by the administration there was going to be all this stuff coming out, client lists and so on and so on, accountability, that suddenly it seems the shutters have come down on this.
A lot of people, as you know, on the conservative right, and particularly in the MAGA world, very, very upset about this.
What's your reaction to it?
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Peak's Pure Fermented Tea Promo00:15:23
Look, I want them to release everything.
And I've called on that for a long time.
I've called on that during the previous administration.
The Biden administration did not release these materials.
I've called on this administration to release these materials.
I think Jeffrey Epstein was a sexual predator.
I think he targeted and abused young girls.
And all the evidence we have is there were a number of other men who participated in that.
And I want to know everyone who participated.
I want to know everyone that went to Epstein's Island.
And, you know, the Attorney General has said that there are thousands of hours of videos, of explicit videos.
And what she told me, I asked her a couple of months ago what the delay was.
And what she told me then, she said the delay was that they're trying to go through those videos and make sure they're not releasing images of kids being sexually abused.
And I understand that.
You want to protect the privacy of the victim.
And so that, and she just said that takes time.
I think they should release every adult who was culpable and responsible.
I think the public should know.
And I think they should be criminally prosecuted.
I completely agree.
Senator Cruz, great to have you on Uncensore for the first time.
Don't leave us along next time.
All right.
Terrific.
Thanks.
And please send all our very best wishes.
I'm here in London to everybody involved in this terrible tragedy.
I love Texas and Texan people.
And it's a really unspeakable tragedy.
And our hearts go out to all of you.
Thank you.
Thanks very much.
Well, I'm joined on the panel by Natalie Winters, the White House correspondent, Steve Bannon's Warhammer, commentator and YouTube host, Brian Tyler-Cohen, streamer and political commentator Destiny, and Ben Ferguson, the co-host of the verdict with Ted Cruz.
Well, let me start with you, Ben, given that you work with Senator Cruz a lot.
A, it was great to have him make his uncensored debut.
And obviously, we focused mainly on the floods.
But what he said at the end there was really interesting, I felt, about the Epstein files, because this is raging away.
You know, the administration having got everybody very excited.
You know, I had one of the administration on uncensored, Alina Haben.
Let's just remind people what she told me literally like two, three months ago.
It is incredibly disturbing.
We have flight logs.
We have information names that will come out.
Is it going to be shocking?
I don't see how it's not shocking that there were so many individuals that were hidden and kept secret and not been held accountable.
Let's talk about the reverse.
I believe in accountability.
So you have to now go through your process.
Now, I won't say they're guilty until they go through their time in court.
But again, now it's time for accountability.
We have seen for so many years, Pierce, in this country, many investigations, subpoenas, testimonies in Congress, et cetera, et cetera.
But there's a general frustration with accountability.
We take it halfway.
We don't take it home.
And I really believe that now with Cash and Pam, there will be accountability.
Now, Ben, that clip has had millions and millions of views this week, understandably, because there's a massive disconnect between what she told me there and what Pam Bondi was saying and what others were saying and what's actually materialized in the last 48 hours.
You know, Senator Cruz there very firmly that he wants everything put out and he wants criminal action taken against those who broke the law.
What's your view?
Couldn't agree more.
Look, I think there's transparency.
The American people deserve, but not just the American people, most importantly, the victims.
They deserve to not have this be covered up in any capacity or for people to just stop looking.
I don't know if there's certain information that has disappeared or wasn't there that they thought was there.
But at the end of the day, all that we do have needs to be put out there in a responsible way.
You have to protect the victims.
That is something that's extremely important.
And so it's got to be done in an orderly way.
But there are too many people that have talked about this on the record, saying that there's a lot of stuff out there to then all of a sudden say, all right, well, maybe we don't have it.
Maybe it's not there.
Whatever the story is, give it to everyone the same way and make sure you protect those victims, but they deserve justice.
And I don't think this is going to be the end of the story.
I think there's far too many people that are asking the questions that you just mentioned, that the center mentioned, that I'm mentioning.
And this should be nonpartisan.
This should be non-political.
You have children that apparently were sex trafficked and abused in horrific ways.
That has nothing to do with politics.
It should come out whether the people that were the perpetrators of this were liberal or conservative or agnostic.
It doesn't matter.
You need to protect the victims.
And we need to make sure things like this never, ever, ever, ever happen again.
Right.
Brian Tully Cohen.
I mean, I do think it's a nonpartisan issue.
Obviously, nothing is these days.
But I do think that it is completely baffling to me, just as a journalist, that you have this extraordinary scandal that rages away for many years.
The main perpetrator dies in prison and is believed to have taken his own life.
But the only person that's actually been made criminally accountable and is now languishing in prison is Gillet Maxwell, his kind of madame figure, who's a woman.
So none of the other men who are widely believed to have been involved in this, none of them have been made accountable.
What's your view of this?
Yeah, I mean, my view is that this is a conjob by this administration.
All of these people, Cash Mattell, Alina Haba, Dan Bongino, Donald Trump, all of them came forward and said that this was a priority for them because they were stringing their supporters along.
And then the moment they get into power, here we are in a situation where the whole thing is just closed and we have no further information on this.
And yet, you know, look, I think it would be fools to be surprised.
I mean, this is a guy at Jeffrey Epstein who Trump himself powled around with for years.
This is a guy who Epstein himself called his closest friend for his club.
This is a guy who Jeffrey Epstein said was his closest friend for 10 years.
This is a guy who Donald Trump appointed as his secretary of labor, Alex Acosta, who handed him a sweetheart deal, a non-prosecution agreement where he was out of prison six out of seven days a week.
So, you know, look, Trump can say what he wants on the campaign trail in the lead up when he needs to get everybody's votes and pander to the base.
But at the end of the day, he's the guy in charge.
And suddenly the about face from everybody in his administration, the buck falls to one person.
It's not Alina Haba or Carolyn Levitt or Dan Bongino or Kash Patel.
It's Trump himself.
Right.
I mean, Natalie, the interesting thing in terms of the timeline here is that when Elon Musk fell out pretty spectacularly and suddenly with Donald Trump, one of the things he posted on his ex-platform was, you know, bombshell.
The biggest bombshell is that Trump's in the Epstein files, right?
And that was only a few weeks ago.
And since then, there seems to have been a concerted effort for this story to just go away.
Now, these two things may be completely unconnected.
There may be nothing more to it other than Trump obviously was seen around Epstein.
They clearly were very friendly for a while.
I think he used his plane several times.
I don't think that's in dispute.
But there does seem to be a weird timeline here of Elon Musk saying that publicly and everything getting shut down a few weeks later.
Am I reading too much into this?
Well, look, I think this is very quickly approaching.
I mean, we've already passed debacle territory, but just outright grift.
And that's probably not something that you would expect me to say.
But this is just absolutely reprehensible.
I think if you look at what really the MAGA base, the people who elected President Trump, what their sort of concerns have been these past few months is that the administration is not moving fast enough, right?
They're not content with the press releases and the tweets.
They want to see prison sentences and actual accountability for people that they believe committed crimes.
Now, we've hit the point where we're not even getting the press releases or the strongly worded letters.
We're getting weird, undated, unnamed memos being released over holiday weekends to legacy media outlets trying to bury it in Axios instead of working with all the new media outlets that the White House pumped and talked so openly and heavily about being in and around the White House.
I mean, this is a bedrock issue.
I know I agree.
It's non-partisan, it's non-political to want to get justice for the victims.
But I also think that this is something that is both hyper-partisan and hyper-political because what Jeffrey Epstein was doing, whether it's a foreign intel operation or domestic aside or joint operation, has direct ramifications and probably the policies that we've seen being rolled out, whether through blackmail indirectly or directly through a lot of the political leaders in this nation.
I would just say, as someone who has been on shows, co-hosted with a lot of the people, the clips that we've played of people who have called out Jeffrey Epstein for years and made millions of dollars off of it.
It is absolutely reprehensible and it is a complete grift.
And you have now, in their words, probably become the deep state.
If you're going to run cover for this and you think that the MAGA audience is dumb enough to not, I don't know, be able to go back two months and see the comments you were making on Fox News.
We need to get this right.
I don't even know if I have faith in Pam Bondi anymore, but this is a really, really concerning moment for MAGA.
Yeah, I mean, Destiny, it is fascinating to see how a lot of the most die-hard Trump supporters in the kind of podcast, YouTube, influencer world, they've turned pretty vengefully against him and the administration over this.
What do you make of it?
So here's the reality.
The reality is, I keep hearing people like Joe Rogan saying the conspiracy theorists ended up being right about everything.
They weren't.
They were wrong about basically every single thing.
There was no massive election fraud.
There were no mass deaths from the COVID vaccine.
There is no evidence that it was manufactured in a laboratory.
There is no evidence that Jeffrey Epstein was murdered by somebody.
The reality is every single thing I said is true, and I will debate you on any platform.
That's real.
You have no idea.
Well, sir, we're saying that.
Hang on, absolutely.
That's just stupid.
Let me finish my point.
Excuse me.
Let me finish my point.
The problem is that the dumbest thing is that the problem is that the problem is that you guys spent so much time spreading these conspiracies.
When you finally wound up, when you finally wound up, sir, I don't even know if you know what I do even believe that viruses and germs are real.
I'm not actually sure.
Please stop.
I do.
Conservatives spent all this time.
Conservatives spent all this time.
You would understand that.
Conservatives spent all.
Well, if you want to bring me on your show, I'll talk about it anytime, anywhere, okay?
Conservatives spent all this time.
I don't insult my audience with stupid comments.
Let me just jump in on this.
Excuse me.
Can I wait?
Hold on, wait a minute.
Destiny.
Let me wait.
Well, you made a series of statements, Sarah.
And I'm almost every one sentence.
Conservatives spent all this time with all these conspiracies.
And then as soon as they got into office and they no longer had a deep state to blame, all of a sudden there was no election fraud evidence.
There was no evidence about John Joe Biden being conspiratorial with Ukraine or Russia.
There was no evidence of Epstein being murdered.
And that's what's happened.
They are now the deep state.
They have every part of the government in under control and they have no evidence for anybody else.
Here's the problem.
You've made a series of statements there, alleging that all these things are pure conspiracy theories and there's no evidence for it.
And yet it is widely now accepted that actually it is more likely than not that the coronavirus, COVID-19, was started in that lab.
That is now widely accepted.
That's not a conspiracy theory.
It began as a conspiracy theory.
They're trying to sell it.
I promise you there is no scientific evidence.
There is no compelling intelligence for the evidence if that is the case.
So you think Destiny has to go away all this time.
Hang on to that.
Let me finish my sentence.
Here's the thing, Destiny.
You think it's literally a conspiracy theory that COVID-19, which was originally said to start in a wet market one mile from the Wuhan Institute of Virology, where it later transpired they were testing new coronaviruses.
You think it is more likely it started with a bat in the wet market next door than it started in the lab where they're literally testing new coronaviruses.
You think that's a mad conspiracy?
Because I would say the mad conspiracy is that it's the bat a mile away.
I'm going to go with the wet market that was 30 minutes away in a densely populated city where all of the first cases started.
It's not a mile away from that.
30 minutes away.
Chinese Communist Party.
Sir, you are an absolute idiot.
I can't believe it.
Just to be clear, just to be clear.
Just to be clear, that's the problem.
It's funny that you say Communist Party, right?
Just to be clear, the residents of Kerr County for the floods that we were just discussing rejected utilizing ARPA funds for years to put up.
It's so funny.
Ted Coo's talking about an emergency siren system.
They didn't want to use money from the Biden administration because of all of these crazy conspiracies that you guys spread about, things like COVID, because they thought that they accepted the money.
The transcripts are public.
The transcripts are public, sir.
I'm sorry, hold on.
Are you telling me they didn't say that?
Are you telling me they didn't say that?
You cannot defend your Wuhan point of view because it's made out of Chinese communist propaganda.
I think everyone watching can see that now.
And I think you realize you stepped in it and you said something that wasn't true.
And everyone that has a brain on this panel is calling you out for it because it was such a stupid thing to say.
I'm sorry that happened to you, but you don't leave crying and what to try to cover for your dumbass.
Oh, my God.
Oh, my.
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I want to bring the others in.
I want to bring the others in.
Don't all shadow ones.
Don't all shadow ones.
Let me bring Brian back in here.
See, this is the interesting thing, I think, Brian.
I read what Joe Rogan put out about conspiracy theories.
He was really saying, really, what he was saying was, don't just dismiss them all out of hand was his real theme about this.
Because a lot of things are alleged to be conspiracy theories.
And the COVID lab one is a classic example.
Well, that began as being something that could get people cancelled if they even dared suggest it.
And is now, you know, the US CIA believes a research-related origin in Wuhan in the lab is more likely than the theory it came from Animal.
So the CIA now believe that.
So it's a long group of conspiracy theory.
But Brian, I think it goes to a wider point is that take the Epstein story, right?
Don't Dismiss Conspiracy Theories00:15:37
I don't know whether he took his life or was murdered or whatever.
It seems that most people who've looked at this professionally believe he took his life.
But there's this weird video with the missing minute and Pam Bondi's torturous explanation for what that may be about.
There's also the undeniable fact that he surrounded himself with a myriad number of famous, rich, powerful people who would have a vested interest in shutting him up.
That is indisputable.
There are also all these rumors flying around, which, you know, even Alan Dershowitz thought there may be some merit to this when I interviewed him on Monday, that he may have been some kind of Israeli Mossad agent of some sort.
You put all this together, and again, it's very easy to say, well, it's all a conspiracy theory to say that he did anything other than he took his life and nobody else was involved.
There's no client lift.
Nobody else abused these girls.
It's over.
I don't think that's the conspiracy theory.
The conspiracy that's going on right now, it seems to me, is a conspiracy of shutting this down, of silencing debate about it, wanting to move on, and for actually nobody other than Ghillane Maxwell to be held accountable when it is, I mean, look, take Prince Andrew, right?
In my country, Prince Andrew paid Virginia Duffray a reported $11 million, right?
But claimed he never met her, right?
But there's a photograph of him with his arm around her when she was 17, 18 in a London townhouse.
Now, you know, call me a conspiracy theorist, but you don't give $11 million to someone you've never met, right?
I don't care who you are.
So again, a lot of the stuff swirling around here doesn't make a lot of sense.
And I don't think it's good enough for people just to say it's all conspiracy theory.
So shut up and move on.
Your thoughts?
I would completely agree.
And in fact, we saw yesterday when the White House was posed these questions, Trump freaked out and said, whoa, whoa, why are we still talking about this?
Like, can't we talk about something?
You've got Donald Trump who has spent every waking minute of the past almost decade talking about the water pressure in his shower and toilet.
That guy suddenly doesn't want to engage in a topic that he's spoken about before.
We've heard him go on and on about immigrants being rapists and murderers every day.
We've heard him go on and on for the better part of a decade about Hillary Clinton's crimes and the Biden crime family.
This guy repeats himself like to the ends of the earth.
And yet on the issue of Epstein, which by the way was an issue that his campaign predicated so much of their focus on that they garnered so much support from their audience based on, now he doesn't want to talk about it.
So yeah, I mean, I guess the expression that would come to mind is a hit dog will holler.
Well, also, again, I'll repeat, this follows just literally whatever it was three, four weeks ago, Elon Musk in their big public spat suddenly posting, you know, that the big bombshell is that Trump's in the Epstein files.
So it might be a move, by the way, that started a conversation about deporting Elon Musk, in case you were wondering whether there was any there there.
So yeah, I mean, clearly that he hit a mark by, or he hit a nerve by saying stuff like that.
But I mean, for this administration to try and brush it under the rug.
And Natalie, I do agree with what you said about there being a lot of grifters.
I mean, we've seen Dan Bongino and Kash Patel focus so much energy, so many resources, so much time on this exact issue, only for them to come out and say, oh, well, there's absolutely nothing here.
But I would also caution Natalie to not put the onus, because I've been seeing this more and more on the right, to not put all of the responsibility on Pam Bondi.
Pam Bondi is an appendage of Donald Trump.
She is not calling the shots.
Nobody in this administration is calling the shots.
This entire cabinet, this entire White House exists to serve Donald Trump.
They exist to basically be extensions of Trump himself, and no one will ever act independently of him.
And so if accountability is really what you're looking for here, and I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that this is all being done in good faith, then let's not delude ourselves into thinking that Pam Bondi is the final word or that the buck stops with her when the buck always stops with Donald Trump.
I'm sure that there's merit to that.
Let me come to you, Nathalie, because Elon Musk has also suggested that Steve Bannon that you work with, obviously, is in the Epstein files too.
A, what can you say about that?
I mean, what's the reaction to that, first of all?
Well, I'll always let Steve speak for himself, but I can guarantee you Steve is certainly not in the Epstein files.
Perhaps Elon needs to both be deported and sued for defamation.
But look, I think, you know, in a rare moment, I probably actually agree with Brian.
I think that was why the Trump administration wanted to prioritize transparency, at least in their rhetoric, right, from the first days.
They wanted the American people to be able to decide on all of this.
And I think that that sort of compounded with what they were trying to do, right, with the new media initiative, bringing in these other voices to try to, I think, go away from just having legacy media outlets dominate certain narratives or sort of setting the parameters for what stories are of interest to the American people.
And I think when you talk about transparency, I don't know if the Chinese Communist Party or right now the Trump administration or whoever it may be, Deep State Take Your Pick is engaging in more of a cover-up when it comes to whether it's Epstein files or the origins of COVID, respectively.
I think that's a rather asinine point.
But to link it all back to what you were saying, Piers, I think labeling all these things at the offset, at the onset rather, a conspiracy theory, compounding with, I think, a lot of sort of the censorship apparatus that we saw spring up under Joe Biden, you sort of get that same reaction to what people had when President Trump was sitting in his cabinet meeting and saying, why are people interested in this?
Why are people looking at that?
It just makes people double down.
So even if you want to be pragmatic, respectfully, Destiny, saying that there's no evidence, I think you can agree that there is at least one piece of evidence that may intimate that COVID-19 developed in the Wuhan Institute of Irology under Shi Zheng Li.
I just think these draconian statements make people not more likely to sort of entertain the other side of the fence, but it makes people think that there actually are conspiracies going on to cover up information.
Yeah, I would agree.
Destiny, I'm going to talk about it.
She said in Toronto, I'm going to ask you a question.
This is under Biden.
I'm pretty sure that was under Trump.
So, if you want to blame anybody for the censorship, it would have been Trump.
I know that's a good question.
Let me ask you a question, Destiny.
Destiny, I want to ask you a question.
So, a woman called Kylie Jane Kramer posted on X. I've been trying to wrap my head around how the flooding in Texas became so devastating so quickly.
Why not evacuate?
Then I saw this.
Lieutenant Governor Dan Patrick said the Guadalupe River rose 26 feet in just 46 minutes around 4 a.m.
That doesn't even seem natural.
To which you posted, you reposted this and you put your own words.
I heard God killed those kids because they were using Nord VPN promo code Destiny to get around the Texas porn ban.
On reflection, do you think that was grotesquely tasteless thing to be posting?
Absolutely not.
The hand-wringing, the hand-wringing here.
Oh my God, stop.
If you want to talk about dead children, you should talk about the residents of Kerr County who rejected using ARPA funds to build the very siren system that Ted Cruz was over here virtue signaling about.
Now that the kids are dead, last I checked the siren system isn't bringing anybody back to life.
Okay.
The very same system that they could have built for the better part of the last decade.
They didn't want to touch those ARPA funds because they thought that if they did, Biden would go and steal their homes, which is the exact same lie that was told in North Carolina when people were rejecting FEMO funds because they thought that if the government was giving them money, how does they steal it?
If you want to talk about grotesque and ghoulish things that are being said, you're just going to do it.
That's what you put online.
I agree with you.
It's what you put online.
It is disgusting, but I mean, I guess that's what you're saying.
Hey, just do you?
How long have people like you?
How long have people like you told us that if we spend less money in Ukraine, you guys are going to spend more money investing in things like infrastructure in the United States?
Where is that money going?
We've had another massive debt increase.
Another massive debt increase from more tax cuts for wealthy people.
Congratulations.
Thank you so much.
All right, let me get a bit of a ticket.
How's that deficit doing?
Don't talk over each other.
How's our deficit doing?
Is it going up or down?
Don't talk over each other.
But just to be clear, Destiny, you don't.
I have no answers.
Just to be careful.
I'm not going to sit here and argue about jokes when these guys are spreading lies that are leading to the actual destruction of these.
Oh, except you guys do when it happens in LA when it's about the wildfires.
You guys make jokes when God is going to kill Minnesota.
I'll look at my answer.
Which the rest of your party is because the rest of your party is.
Let's talk over each other because we can't hear you.
All right.
Yeah.
Okay.
All right.
But Destiny, just to be clear.
Destiny, just to be clear, you don't regret posting.
I heard God killed those kids.
I'm not going to sit here and argue around the text system.
On Twitter?
Why you allow the very same misinformation to spread on this program that leads to people not putting up siren systems, okay, because they think that Biden is going to go stealthy.
That wasn't my question.
I think it is absolutely insane.
It wasn't my question.
It's insane that you want to go and hand-wring liberals over jokes that are not even half as crazy as some of the things these conservatives say.
Okay, but just to be clear, you don't regret it.
Just to be clear, absolutely not.
Just to be clear, you don't regret posting it.
No, absolutely not.
Okay, Ben Ferguson.
A couple of things here that I think there's proper information that should get out there.
This is an area that I go to often, scenario that I've taken my kids dozens and dozens of times.
It's a very small rural community.
When it rains there, there's always flooding because there's a lot of rock in the ground and the water doesn't absorb in the ground.
So you have flash floodings that happen very quickly.
I've been there when this happens.
This was a once-in-a-lifetime 100-year flood.
If you want to know about the funding for the system, it's an extremely small community and the price tag for it is very, very big compared to the tax base that they have in this small community.
It is not because of the Matt Boone stuff this guy's talking about.
That is not why the community decided six years ago to not do it, even though they wanted to.
It was a cost issue.
What's going to happen now is you're going to have state funds and federal funds and that system will happen.
But go back to this once-in-a-lifetime flood that took place.
No one could have prepared or thought this was going to happen.
People bought homes on a river where there was constant flooding, where they're built high enough up that flooding has never gotten there before in the history of their lifetime.
So this is a tragedy that took place.
And by the way, this is personal because I know people who lost children.
There are funerals that are taking care of the people who are scientists.
I'm saying 15 times.
So you're saying there are other citizenships.
They don't want to use the American Rescue Plan funds.
I mean, they didn't want to use the money because they thought Biden would take their own.
That transcript doesn't exist.
Please let Jen finish given he was talking about the funeral.
What is this?
I have friends who's kids.
Please let him finish what he was saying.
He doesn't care.
As long as he misses he doesn't give a fuck about the dead kids.
That's okay.
You know what, Justin?
You don't give a fuck about the dead kids, do you?
I do.
Because you thought it was funny.
I'm not voting and take money away.
You thought it was funny to go on X and talk about these guys to get rid of them.
From the point of view of the world, I thought comedy was on Twitter.
Don't kill people.
Let me just lay that down on Twitter.
Just to be clear.
Let me lay it down as well.
How many people did my joke kill?
No, it's just disgusting me.
And then how many kids died because there's no siren system?
Because people like this guy over here made up the lie that Biden was going to steal your homes if you accepted American rescue plan.
If you accept American rescue plan money, exactly.
I would like to hear Ben.
Finish the story he was telling us when he was talking about the funerals of dead children.
What do you mean I didn't have the funerals when that's going to be a good idea?
Can we better rather than you talking about why you were right to crack a sick joke?
Ben.
Okay, I go back to the point here.
This flood did not ask if you were liberal or conservative, rich or poor, black or white, or anything else in between.
People lost their lives and many people lost their lives trying to save kids in an unprecedented flood.
If we could go back, I'm sure this community would have said, we'll figure out a way to have the money.
You're dealing with an area that has a lot of volunteer first responders and firefighters.
Can I finish, please?
Like maybe you'll learn something and not be such a tool.
You don't lie.
You just lie.
You don't live there.
You don't know.
You've never been there.
I've been there.
You don't know anybody in this flood.
You should hear worse about it.
Finish my point, Piers.
Finish it, Ben.
Thank you.
There are people that died in this flood helping try to save the lives of others.
There are elderly that died.
I know people that lost children in this flood.
They would love to go back and have a different warning system.
By the way, we don't know if the warning system would have changed anything at all.
The warnings came out early.
Unfortunately, there's spotty cell phone there.
Everyone's talked about this.
I'm sure there's people in the community that wish they would have maybe done something different in the past.
Hindsight's 2020.
But to say that the community decided not to do this because of some insane theory you've come up with, which is not true or based in fact, it was based on a small rural community with not a lot of tax base and a very expensive price tag for something.
And for you to sit here and to somehow decide that this is a place to say something so sick.
I'm assuming you don't have kids.
I have six-year-old and eight-year-old kids.
If you talk to parents that are planning their child's funerals that are happening tomorrow and the next day here in Houston, I think you would have a little bit of a soul and a heart for them.
But instead, you're out here putting this crap out there.
And it's really sad.
I hope you get help.
Let me bring in Brian.
Brian, I want to talk just about a wider point connected to what Destiny posted, for which he shows no regret at all, which is entirely his choice.
But I can say my feelings, which I have.
A former appointee to a Houston city board said that Camp Mystic, where most of these poor young girls were at the time, was white-only, conservative, and Christian, said Sharday Perkins, a former member of the Houston Food Insecurity Board, said in a talk video, a TikTok video.
So take a look.
I know I'm probably going to get canceled for this, but Camp Mystic is a whites-only girls' Christian camp.
They don't even have a token Asian.
They don't have a token black person.
It is, if this were a group of Hispanic girls out there, this would not be getting this type of coverage that they're getting.
No one would give a.
And all these white people, the parents of these little girls, would be saying things like they need to be deported.
A, I think that's completely untrue, what she said.
B, it's completely disgusting to say that in the aftermath of this when these poor girls, many of them are still missing, presumed dead.
But then there's a pediatrician called Dr. Christina B. Probst, who's been fired after posting on social media.
She's a pediatrician, this woman.
May all visitors, children, non-MAGA voters, and pets be safe and dry.
Enforced Disaster in Texas00:09:29
Kerr County MAGA voted to get FEMA.
They deny climate change.
May they get what they voted for.
Bless their hearts.
And my question, Brian, putting that together with what Destiny posted, which again, for the record, I thought was disgusting.
Destiny, I've told you.
You can defend it as much as you like, but it was just a sick, awful thing to post.
And if you had any humanity about you, you would delete it.
But that's entirely your decision.
But Brian, I've seen this on the other side too.
I've seen this during the Biden administration when terrible things happen, that there's a race for people to get political, to play a race card, or play this card or play that card, or just show a shocking inhumanity.
And it's the very worst of society when that happens.
What do we do about this?
I think it's fueled by social media.
People wouldn't have been able to get the audience for this kind of thing without TikTok, without Facebook, without X, and so on.
But it's a sick thing that this goes on when these terrible tragedies happen.
Look, I obviously can't speak for what some random person on the internet tweeted about Camp Mystic.
All I can say is: look, I try to have some sense of the fact that there are as many Republicans in California as there are in Texas, and there are as many Democrats in Texas as there are in major big blue bastions.
And so I try to focus on that and recognize that a lot of these people are, you know, a lot of these people are fighting against the same system that I would be fighting against.
And I wouldn't, you know, obviously not attack folks in Texas.
But I would point out that Ben said that these storms aren't partisan and that we have to try.
I can't remember what Ben said, but the reality is that while the wildfires were raging in California, Ben and Ted had a podcast where they just attacked Ted, where they attacked Governor Newsom and Karen Bass.
That was while the fires were still raging.
And so, you know, spare us the grandstanding and the virtue signaling about how this stuff doesn't get partisan.
Here's Ted Cruz's tweet.
Right now, everyone is horrified watching the LA wildfires.
In today's episode of Verdict, we break down the catastrophic policy decisions made by Gavin Newsom and LA Mayor Karen Bass while the wildfires were still raging in Los Angeles.
I was standing on my roof in LA spraying down my house with a hose to make sure that my house wouldn't set on fire when the fire was down the street within one mile of the show.
Did you listen to the show?
And so, and so Ted Cruz decided to come out and make his entire episode, which, by the way, there is not a show.
Excuse me, let it finish.
You were cried so much about Bill Letter.
Let it finish.
I know.
Ben is like arguing for like for destiny.
You said we did a show.
You're putting words in our mouth of something we didn't.
I read the tweet verbatim.
That's did you listen to the show?
No, I actually did.
You see the documentary?
What we did was we talked about the story.
There's not a situation that's made.
There's not a situation where Ted Cruz was.
Well, let Ben say what he thinks he said.
I'll redo the show in a very quick form.
What we talked about were the decisions that were made for the underbrush not being cleared out and the massive warnings that were coming.
We also talked about what the fire chief said about those warnings.
We talked about the lack of water pressure.
We talked about them cleaning up some of the holding tanks.
We talked about also the fact that there were certain things that were done to save fish over having the ability to fight these types of fires and everything that went into it.
We talked about the decisions that were made that then made for a poor response that made you have to be on your roof, as you described it, spraying down because there wasn't adequate decisions that were made.
You think the reason that I was on my roof?
You think the reason that I was on my roof was because while the Santa Ana winds were ripping through LA at 100 miles per hour and 50,000 acres of LA were burning, that some bogus fucking story about the smelt, about Delta smelt is why LA was burning.
You're a joke.
You had no idea.
You want to give me five different reasons.
You're talking about five different reasons.
You have no idea what you're talking about.
I'm quoting the people.
There is no government.
Ben, there is no amount of water pressure in the world through these hydrants that are going to say that you put out 50,000 acres of fire.
I did.
Yes, you did.
You're talking about smelt and you're talking about no water pressure.
I didn't say that there was my drink.
You know that.
You lose water.
That's not what I said, but let me grant you the larger point, though.
And I think the point that you're trying to make, I'll grant you this, even though you don't deserve it and you're just going to spew a bunch of bullshit about you, okay, brother.
But let me grant you the larger point and say that there are still things that people could do.
And I'm not here to argue that California did a perfect job or does a perfect job with how they manage all of this stuff.
But to that point, then, do you think it's maybe a little stupid that Trump would fire 10% of Noah's workforce, which is about 1,300 staffers and researchers?
Do you think it's a good idea then that Trump called for reducing Noah's workforce force by a further 17%, which would be another 2,000 staffers and researchers?
Do you think it's a good idea that Trump slashed 20% of FEMA's workforce?
Do you think it's a smart idea to phase out FEMA completely?
Do you think it's a smart idea that 25% of NWS's stations lack a meteorologist?
All of this stuff is so let's go.
Let's go back to the basics here.
If you're asking about the size of government and the president making a decision to reduce the size of government when it makes sense, I have no issue with that.
By the way, the staffing and the lies that were put out by many on the left and the media was that there was understaffing when it came to the warnings that were coming out from the National Weather Service.
That was a lie.
They were staffed above normal staffing levels.
They held people over the day before and the night of the storm in Texas.
They had double the staff on staff when the storms were hitting.
There's a timeline of all the texts that were going out and the warnings that were going out.
And so you're acting as if Donald Trump caused a problem with the flood and the response to it in the warning system, which is a lie.
When you have double the staff, which is the protocol, by the way, under Obama, under Biden, and under George Bush.
So this is nonpartisan and everyone showed up for work and people were held over.
You're now just trying to score political points on the lives of dead children for political reasons.
Hang on, let me bring in Natalie because you should be waiting patiently.
Natalie, when I read out what Destiny posted there, what was your feeling about that?
Well, I think that's probably the textbook definition of what it means to be a grifter trying to profit off of dead children by pumping Nord VPN and your promo code.
It's reprehensible.
I'm just saying you're an atheist.
You don't believe in the mission of God.
You certainly don't believe in traditional marriage.
So I would expect nothing less that you would double down and defend it blows my mind.
I mean, I agree comedy is important, but I don't think, no offense, maybe you shouldn't be a stand-up comedian if you want to start your career by posting about dead children.
It's really not all that funny.
And it really wasn't even a joke.
You were trying to profit off of it.
So I think that's sort of a compounding evilness to what you did.
What do we do, Natalie?
Real quick, real quick, for compounding evilness, just so I could read this because it's entered into the record.
Okay.
I'm just curious if Ben wants to say, is this quote fake?
Okay.
So there's hundreds of these quotes.
All right.
At a county meeting, okay, where the citizens are giving feedback on whether or not they should use the American Rescue Plan funds.
All right.
Citizen, Mr. R says there's not just a lack of transparency, but the Biden administration is pulling the wool over our eyes.
If we see what's actually written, we make a clear decision.
This is wrong.
Texas has been going in the right direction.
I moved from Washington State a year ago.
Washington is just falling lockstep with whatever this admin wants to do.
And we're watching with clarity the damage.
As far as COVID and the recovery money, the majority of the damage has been caused by the government.
We're doing well.
I'm a retired firefighter.
EMS, I love law enforcement.
Do no harm is going by the wayside.
Let me finish one more sentence.
Do no harm is going by the wayside from.
We're all familiar with that and it's heartfelt, but it's going by the wayside.
For now, what would be money that would go against everything that we believe?
Whatever good is in it, I don't want it.
Are you telling me that that comment and the hundreds of others like it are fake?
Can you give me a yes or no before you ramble about whatever irrelevant subject?
Are those comments fake?
I'm going to go back to what I want to say.
You said what you said.
I'm going to say an answer.
Number one.
This is why you guys are going to be able to get it.
I'm answering the damn question, dude.
Like, just chill for a second.
Drink whatever hemp juice or that is.
Okay.
Keep going.
All right.
So number one, that's one person.
Number two, if you weren't so dumb.
If you weren't so dumb, if you weren't going to be able to get someone who's going to be able to do that.
Let's go out and find another one if you want.
If you weren't, good, you found two.
If you weren't so dumb, go Google the size of the Comfort Texas City Hall.
You can't fit hundreds of people in any meeting there, you moron.
You found one.
You act like there's thousands that showed up.
They did not show up and say the person on the internet.
And then the people who are in the middle of the day.
But if you're in the middle of the time, you can bring five in.
If you see a ruin, you would know that.
Did you know that 100 people could see you?
I believe you'll go in and 10.
Political Budget and Third Parties00:11:59
I do.
Are we looking forward to this?
Did we forget this though?
Again, again, if you understood the size of the town, which you don't, because you don't care, because you're literally trying to make money off of dead people.
You're the ones who are getting kids.
You would not hope for the next day.
This is an enforced disaster in Texas.
Next time the power grid freezes, the next time another flood happens in dip shoots like Europe, you're saying who's ever seen it.
To make a living, at least Marjorie Taylor Greene is out here.
It's caused me a miserable life.
To stop the Jews from putting clouds in the sky.
So thank God we have you guys working hard on the problem, okay, to set the weather money.
My friend from Bill Gates, thank you.
You stay up till 3 a.m. and watch the internet.
Thank you, God.
Thank you, God.
Okay, Brian.
Let's just talk on a bigger picture about, because it's interesting to me, the whole Epstein thing, for example, I think has been fueled, the sequence of events, by what Elon Musk put on on X.
And he's now creating a third party.
He says he is, the America Party.
It's never worked before, but we've never had somebody with his money or social media firepower to drive it.
So I don't think it should be dismissed out of hand.
How dangerous an enemy can Elon Musk turn out to be for Donald Trump?
If, for example, in the midterms, he decides to aggressively support anti-Trump candidates, for example, and is successful in doing that and gets some resonance for this party, this third party, and then that moves forward with some momentum to a general election.
I mean, how big could this get?
What's your feeling about the Musk-Trump meltdown?
I think it could go both ways.
You could make the argument that the reason Trump is president right now is because Elon Musk gave him $300 million and campaigned relentlessly in Pennsylvania, for example.
So obviously there is a lot of weight that can be given to a candidate by virtue of endless funds.
Elon has that.
On the flip side, look, I mean, he put forward this threat that he was going to make sure that whoever voted for the Big Beautiful bill was primaried.
They all voted for it, except for Thomas Massey and Tom Tillis.
And so they were not going to vote for it anyway.
I'm sure that Elon's and Rand Paul, Elon's tweet had no bearing on any of those three.
And so you could also make the argument at the same time that his influence is waning in the Republican Party.
I think what's the broader picture, though, is that Elon is somebody who has, Elon himself is no white knight here, especially as it relates to Democrats.
This is somebody who predicates so much of his focus on eliminating waste, fraud, and abuse, which by the way, so do the Republicans, but everyone is full of shit here.
Elon had carte blanche, full reign of government with Doge.
And instead of going after the biggest agency in government, which has failed seven audits, which is the Pentagon, he goes after USAID, which is one half of 1% of the budget and affords us soft power without firing a single bullet across the world.
He goes after the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, which saved billions of dollars for 200 million consumers.
That is a fraction of the budget.
He goes after the EPA, the NLRB, the Department of Labor, the Department of Transportation, every single agency that had enforcement or fines levied against him are the ones that he focused on.
And instead, the Pentagon gets a raise to a trillion dollars.
So spare us on the grandstanding about reigning in deficit, reigning in the federal deficit.
But the same goes for this Republican Party.
All of these people, House Freedom Caucus included, predicated so much of their identity on this idea that we have to stop this existential threat that is overspending and saddling our kids and future generations with all of this interest that we're not going to be able to pay off.
All these motherfuckers voted for it.
All of these people are completely full of shit.
They string their people along just like they did with the Epstein situation.
They strung all their supporters along with these promises that they're going to be the fiscal responsive, that they're going to be the fiscal conservatives, that they're going to be the adults in the room.
They get into office, they explode the deficit because the only priority they have, not Epstein, not lowering costs, not adding jobs, none of that stuff, it is giving themselves a tax cut.
That's the only long-standing principle they have.
It's all they did in 2017.
It's all they're doing right now.
Everything else is window dressing to kill on their supporters, their marks into thinking that they're going to help them.
All right.
Let me say this about him real quick, Elon Musk, and how this can be an issue.
You go back and you look at guys like Jesse Ventura.
You go back and you look at Schwarzenegger.
You go back and you look at Ross Perot.
There is a history that when certain individuals see an opportunity and a third party comes about, that you can be a disruptor.
If Elon Musk just wants to be a disruptor in the midterm elections, there is no doubt he can pull it off.
If he's smart about where he plays, if he tries to play nationwide, I think that would fall apart.
But look, there's a tight majority in the House, a tight majority in the Senate.
The Senate is leaning more towards the Democrats in the upcoming midterm election.
It favors them in the election map and who's up.
Yeah, I think Elon Musk, if he wanted to go in there and be a disruptor to Donald Trump, he certainly has the money to do it.
It's not just money.
It's not just money because he also has 200 million followers on his own social media platform.
Sure.
And I think that played a big part in how Trump won.
I think he got a lot of people to, on a daily basis, Elon Musk was all in on Trump.
Yeah, but at the end of the day, I think Elon Musk is a really smart guy.
I've spent time with him, interviewed him.
I think he's probably going to look at this and say, hey, I want to rein in some of these things.
I want you to hold true the Republican Party to what you claimed you were going to do, going back to the point that was just made a moment ago by the guests.
He wants to make sure that the people that he helped get this power continue to do the right thing more often than they go and do other things.
And so this is that shot across the bow.
I understand why he's doing it.
It does concern me that you end up blowing up the entire thing and the progress you made.
We'll have to see how it plays out.
Destiny, is there anything intrinsically wrong in the concept of a third party?
Would it help break the kind of, you know, very long-running, intransigent nature of the American political system?
I mean, with most people, the math problem is that if you create a third party, all you're doing is siphoning votes off from another party that you're more likely to agree with.
But Elon might have a special advantage because in 10 or 15 years, it's projected that 50 to 100,000 of his children could vote for him in an election.
So maybe that'll swing things a different way, you know?
That's just that is a funny joke, Destiny.
You've got it in you.
Naturally.
Hopefully, Republicans have it their way.
If all those kids are in Texas, who knows how many will be gone to natural disasters that could have never been prevented or screened for or anything else.
So there you go.
I'll make it offensive.
You know what I felt about the debate part of that was what Senator Cruz told me, I thought, was a good way of describing it.
He said, look, actually, probably the big problem here, the only thing that might have made any difference is if more people had been able to heed an alarm faster, it might have saved some lives because it happened so fast and was so devastating.
And the truth is, it's in an area of Apache cell phone.
A lot of people wouldn't have got the messages.
And had they had a siren system, it might have saved some lives.
I imagine they will now all get siren systems.
Pierce, can I ask you a question on that point?
And that is, look, look, look, notwithstanding the fact that Republicans have spent so much money handing themselves a tax cut, but ICE now has a bigger military, a bigger budget than the IDF, than Brazil's military, than the Netherlands' military, than Italy's military.
If ICE was a military unto itself, it would have the 16th biggest budget in the world.
And so think about all of the things that we can do.
I mean, you want to talk about America first?
Think about all the things we could do in this country.
Like, I don't know, giving a warning system to these folks in rural Texas, for example, who could really benefit from that.
But I don't think, yeah, but I don't think they're mutually excited.
Hang on, let me say that.
Hang on.
I don't think they're mutually brown people.
I don't think they're mutually exclusive.
A country like the United States of America is still the number.
Hang on, Ben.
It's the number one superpower in the world, right?
The idea you can't do two things at once or 10 things at once or 100 things at once is nuts.
Of course, I'm not.
Excuse me.
Why is Ben saying that the same?
The Republicans have spent the last five years telling us that.
You can't spend money in Ukraine.
You have to spend it here.
You can't spend money on food stamps.
You have to spend it on your people.
Every time that Trump is cutting programs, every single time it comes to cutting programs, you guys are okay with cutting some programs, but you never want to spend any money on anything else.
Will you admit?
Will you admit that the budget is out of control and that Trump did absolutely nothing?
Will you admit that?
Will you admit that?
That the budget is out of control, Trump did that.
He failed completely.
If you and I have been doing TV together, I can't.
I admit it's a good idea.
About government spending.
No, listen to what the government is spending.
It's Donald Trump.
Your party has allocated budgets.
You're talking about the population.
Well, you've got horses galloping across MacArthur Park paid for by the federal government, Donald Trump's federal government.
Will you admit that you failed?
They failed from controlling the budget.
They're not a 10-year trade immigrants on the street.
Did they fail?
Did they fail?
We spend all that damn money.
We would fail in control.
I won't even answer that question.
Do you know the truth from across the pond, if I may raise a hand?
Is I think the debt was in 1980 was a trillion dollars, and now it's heading towards $40 trillion.
And in that time, last time I checked, in that time, there were a lot of Democrat presidents and a lot of Republican presidents.
So it may just be Destiny.
This is a problem which both parties...
Wait, wait, which president of the country?
Why the left?
It's got to be.
You didn't even know how time was.
50 years ago.
I've seen a bunch of years of Donald Trump's fault.
All right.
I want to give the last thing it was done.
Enough.
Enough.
I want to give the last word to Natalie.
He's been waiting very patiently.
Natalie, last word to you about this issue of Elon Trump, the deficit, where this all goes, another party.
Your quick thoughts.
Well, Elon failed at Doge, not just the $2 trillion to $1 trillion to $9 billion.
There should have been criminal referrals and indictments for all of the scams and schemes that they were talking about.
And there wasn't one person, maybe one random USAID contractor sort of on a separate path.
Good luck if he wants to start a party with what I think a foreign-born COO of it.
He might be getting deported imminently, so it'll be tough running the America Party from South Africa.
Okay.
On that note, we will leave it.
I'm going to go and have my ears treated by an emergency medic.
But thank you all very much.
I appreciate it.
Thanks.
Thanks, Pierce.
Hey, Mike Baker here, host of the President's Daily Brief podcast.
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Overruling the Autopsy Report00:12:56
Well, jumping on the phone now is Mark Epstein, Jeffrey Epstein's brother.
Mark, good to have you back on Uncensored.
Thank you.
Good to be here.
If I could, we spoke about a year ago.
If I could just ask you, first of all, your reaction to the Trump administration effectively saying it's now shutting down any ongoing investigation into the Epstein files, as they put it.
What is your reaction to that?
Well, you know, I've never really been that much involved with or cared about the Epstein files as far as the charges against them.
I had nothing to do with that.
I wasn't part of it.
As I explained last time, my concern is the fact that he was most likely killed in prison.
That's what I'm concerned about.
And the fact that they're trying to hide that or trying to shield that and try to put it off as a suicide where everything else points against suicide, that's what I'm concerned about.
There's been a lot of, every time they say something or do something, like release this video, they're just digging themselves deeper into the hole.
It seems like the lies are closing in on them.
So explain to the viewers exactly why you believe your brother didn't take his own life and somebody else took it.
Okay.
Well, first of all, when I first heard that he was dead from the parents' suicide, I had no reason to doubt it.
I figured, well, you know, he's in prison, what he was facing.
You know, he didn't have children.
Parents are gone.
I figured, okay, if he decided to take himself out, I would just respect that.
But then, you know, we did the autopsy the next day, and the city pathologist who did the autopsy with Dr. Bottom there, they both came out of the autopsy room and they said that they couldn't call it a suicide because it looked too much like a homicide.
That wasn't my suggestion.
That was them, the professionals.
And then you get all the things that went wrong in the prison.
The cameras weren't working on the maximum security tier.
The guards weren't checking.
There's just a lot of things that went wrong in the prison.
And then, you know, Jeffrey was trying to appeal his bail decision.
And he had a hearing coming up, and it would have been an extremely large bail that he was offering.
And that hearing was coming up soon.
Now, I know Jeffrey, and I thought that if he had a chance of getting bail, he would wait to commit suicide to see if he, if bail was denied, it would make it more plausible that he killed himself.
But why would he kill himself literally days before he had a chance of getting bail?
That doesn't make any sense.
That's another thing.
And then when you hear the statements that come out, like when Bill Barr first said he saw the videotape and he saw that nobody went in or out of the tier because the camera outside of the tier was working, he said no one went in or out of the tier that convinced him it was a suicide.
Well, that was a blatantly naive statement from the top law enforcement official of the United States because there were 11 or 12 other prisoners on that tier that could have killed somebody on the tier.
And also, conversely, to think somebody could get to that door, go inside, kill somebody, and leave through that door completely undetected is just asinine because there's six levels of security before you get to that door.
So if he was killed, it wasn't by somebody going into the tier and coming out of the tier.
It was somebody already on the tier, or he was killed when they locked up the tier at 10 o'clock at night or 10.30 at night the night before.
Let me just remind you, so we had this conversation a year ago, but just for the record, do you believe that your brother was guilty of very serious sex crimes?
The only thing I know he was guilty of is that he was with girls that were too young.
All the other crimes and accusations, I have no clue.
I wasn't involved.
I wasn't there.
I hadn't seen Jeffrey for a number of years before his death.
And I mean, we were always in communication via phone or email, but we didn't, it lived two separate worlds.
So I had no idea what he was doing.
So yeah, that's the only thing I could say I know he was guilty of.
The other stuff is not my business.
I wasn't involved.
I don't know what the charges are.
So I'm only concerned with the circumstances of his death.
And had you been in contact with him when he was in prison?
When he was in prison, no.
The last contact I had with him was the night before he got arrested.
He was in Paris.
He called me from Paris that night, just a normal brotherly call, just check up on each other.
And then the next day he flew home to New York, to Peterborough Airport, and he was arrested at the airport.
His attorneys called me and told me he was arrested.
The last conversation I had with Jeff was the night before he was arrested.
He was obviously convicted of a paedophile crime many years previously.
Did he ever involve in prostitution or something?
That was in Florida in like 2006 or something.
With an underage girl, though.
Yeah, I believe so.
Yeah.
Yeah, so that's a crime.
I mean, that made him a paedophile.
He spent a year in jail for that.
Yeah.
So I guess my question is, as his brother, after that, did you have any discussions about that criminal offense that he was found guilty of?
I told him to make sure that he in the future says with girls that are not underage.
What seems very clear is that he ignored that advice and carried on having all these girls, many of whom.
Wait, I've got to stop you there.
I don't know about that because, from what I understand, what he was being charged with more recently was stuff that took place back then.
I haven't heard of charges since that 2006, 2006 or 2008, whenever he got out.
I haven't heard of charges that he was with underage girls after that.
I haven't heard that.
Maybe he was, but I didn't hear charges about that.
Like I said, the charges I was aware of took place back then.
And part of his, I know part of his defense was going to be that when he made that deal back in 2006, he had a non-prosecution agreement with the government after that.
So it seemed like they were trying to prosecute him for things that he was supposed to have been safe from.
So I don't, like I said, I don't know if he was with, I don't know if there's charges that he was with underage girls after 2006, that episode.
But obviously, you will know the same things that we've all read about your brother, which is that he had this island.
He took a lot of underage girls there.
A lot of them have made very serious allegations about being raped and sexually assaulted and abused.
And the other rich, powerful people, men, were also involved, none of whom have been brought to justice.
What do you feel about that?
Well, I think if that was the case, that we would have heard about some of these men.
Why aren't these quote victims?
Why aren't they naming names?
Well, the suggestion is the suggestion is, Margo, there's been a big cover-up to prevent those names being released.
Well, but, you know, people know who these victims are.
The attorneys know who these victims are.
They could come out and say it.
I mean, the Trump administration now says case closed.
Do you think it should be closed, or should there be further investigation to establish exactly who else may have been involved?
Well, again, I'm not concerned about that, to be honest with you.
I mean, if wrongdoing was done, people should be punished.
But I don't know that wrongdoing has been done.
I know that I'm concerned about my brother's likely murder.
The Trump administration.
Well, Mark, the Trump administration is also making it very clear that from all their investigations, they believe it is indisputable and 100% certain that your brother took his own life.
Well, yeah, because who are they protecting?
Look, when Bill Bard made the statement about no one, you know, it was a suicide because no one went in or out.
When Kash Patel makes a statement saying that you know a suicide when you see it, my question to him was: how many suicides has he seen?
Okay, where you take Dr. Roman and Dr. Biden, who did the actual autopsy, and they came out of the autopsy, and they said this looks more like a homicide than a suicide, then how does the Trump administration say overrule that?
Dr. Biden has done about 500 autopsies on prison suicides over the last 50 years.
There's very few people with that kind of experience.
And he's saying that to him, this was not a suicide.
It's a homicide.
So, yet, anyone in the Trump administration could say, I don't think so, but what's their backing?
Like, like I said, when Kash Patel said, you know, it's suicide when you see it, how many suicides has he seen?
Is he a forensic pathologist?
Is he a doctor?
You know, it's a laughable matter that he can come out social aware months ago.
He was saying that it wasn't a suicide.
What is your message, Mark, to President Trump?
Let me finish.
You got Bundy, you got Patel, you got Bart.
All of these people work for Trump.
Okay?
So if they're covering up for somebody, who do you think they might be covering up for?
So you think they're covering up for President Trump?
People look at all the books.
Everybody is looking at little pieces of this and coming up with kind of theories.
But people really take the time, because there's a lot of facts, there's a lot of information.
People who take the time and really investigate this thoroughly all come to the pretty much conclusion that maybe Trump was behind this.
Wow.
I mean, maybe Baby Jeff was killed.
There's declined him.
You think President Trump has something to do with Epstein, your brother being killed?
I wouldn't write that off.
Because if you look at all of the evidence we have and all of the facts, not opinions, and all of the facts, that wouldn't be something I would dismiss.
I mean, that's an extraordinary thing to say, but there is zero evidence that Donald Trump had anything to do with your brother's death.
Well, somebody did.
Again, if you look at the, it sort of may be circumstantial, but if you look at all the people trying to make it look like a suicide, look, they just released a video of the door, you know, to the tier, and they're trying to make people think that that was the door to the cell, showing that nobody went in or out of the cell.
The video that was recently released was the door to the tier, the one that Bill Barr referred to.
Now, here's an interesting fact: I asked years ago for the videotape from that very camera from 10 o'clock at night, the night before, until noon the morning that he was found.
Because that would show who the last people on the tier were when they left and locked up the tier.
And it would also show the condition and the circumstances when they took his body off of the tier to the infirmary.
I also want to see the video from the infirmary.
I haven't been able to get anything.
I was initially told that I couldn't get it because it was an active investigation, so I couldn't get access to it.
After the investigation was over, I asked again, okay, and I have in writing a letter from the door to the tier, the footage that Bill Barr referred to, they told me the cameras that were working don't show that area.
And then a few days ago, they released the footage of that very area and the very camera I was referring to.
So first I couldn't get it because it was an investigation.
And then they were telling me it doesn't exist.
And now it shows up.
They release it.
So it's just too much.
You know, if this was purely a suicide, if this was really a suicide, this would be easy to say that this was a suicide.
They wouldn't have to go through all this machinations, all this cover-up, and all this, frankly, bullshit.
So what is your message, finally, Mark?
What is your message to President Trump?
I don't have a message to him.
Do you want him to reopen the investigation into how your brother died?
My message would be, let me give you a list of questions that we can get people to answer under oath, and then we can maybe come to some conclusion.
Okay.
Mark Epstein, thank you very much, indeed, for joining me.
Demanding Answers Under Oath00:00:27
You're welcome.
Bye.
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