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June 30, 2025 - Uncensored - Piers Morgan
54:02
20250630_outrage-bob-vylan-glastonbury-death-to-the-idf-cha
Transcriber: nvidia/parakeet-tdt-0.6b-v2, sat-12l-sm, and large-v3-turbo
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Death to the IDF 00:15:24
Death, death to the IDF!
Death, death to the IDF!
Death!
Death to the IDF!
They didn't say death to Israelis, they said death to the IDF again.
Who are Israelis?
When people say death to America, they mean death to American imperialism that is subjugated.
No, that means death to Americans.
That's a very generous question.
As the Supreme Leader of Iran, what they mean, doesn't it?
I don't think you even believe this as you're saying it, Taylor, do you?
This is intended to be sexual.
I mean, it's not, you know, you don't, you don't literally.
I don't think it is.
I don't think it is.
Really?
I would just like him to just accept and acknowledge that he's not a real boxer having really challenging fights.
So I think when you put these guys on the spot and you're better at what they do, they just can't handle it.
The legendary Glastonbury Music Festival prides itself on its close ties with the peace movement and being a welcoming place for everyone to come together in the spirit of love.
Not this time, punk rap duo Bob Villon made crowds and vitriolic chants about Israel, which made global headlines and were condemned by the British Prime Minister as appalling hate speech.
Free, But have you heard this one though?
Death, death to the IDF!
Death, death to the IDF!
Hell yeah, from the river to the sea, Palestine must be, will be, inshallah, it will be free.
Well, critics of the Fuhrers say it's free speech, but free speech can still have consequences.
Bob Villen were dropped by their agents today.
The United States has revoked their visas.
They're also now facing a criminal investigation, which in my view is probably a step too far.
But the free speech defense seems to be at odds with another Brit who made global headlines, Lucy Connolly, who's currently serving a 31-month jail term for incendiary social media posts, which she deleted within a few hours.
And does free speech only apply to people who go to music festivals?
Joining me to debate all this and a lot more.
The Israeli author and influencer, Hen Mazik, a comedian James Barr, commentator Esther Kraku, and from the United States, Taylor Lorenz, the founder of the User Mag newsletter and culture commentator for our Khalidi.
Welcome to all of you.
Taylor, let me start with you because you reposted somebody who said this.
If you think death to the IDF is a bad thing to say or chant, you don't get to describe yourself as anti-fascist going forward.
Why did you repost that?
Yeah, I repost tons of commentary on news events, basically.
So I was sort of resharing, which is something that I do a lot on my meme page.
I kind of just reshare a lot of discourse.
I think one thing that's being really lost in all of these conversations is that the Israeli military is committing genocide.
And so I completely understand why people are upset about anyone sort of calling for death.
But it's important to recognize that the reason that they're calling for death to this sort of amorphous military entity is because that military entity is currently slaughtering babies and committing genocide in Gaza.
And so these people that are very outraged that thousands of music goers at Glastonbury would repeat that phrase, I think that they should recognize that if they want to stop people from amplifying those messages and stop people from feeling that we should destroy the IDF, they should advocate for the end of the genocide.
And in the Iraq war, for example, in 2003, if they chanted death to the British Army and the US military.
If thousands of people had done that at a music festival, you'd have thought that was acceptable too.
Well, I never said anything was acceptable.
But if you remember, Piers, during the Iraq war, people were chanting death to America, right?
I'm smart enough to understand.
Well, I'm talking about specifically talking about death to soldiers, right?
You know, I've got a lot of military in my family.
The idea, well, hang on, hang on, hang on.
The idea to me that you target in the way that this rapper did, the military who are doing the dirty work for their government, that you say death to all of them.
when actually they're death to the military.
Well, they're being instructed by their government to do what they're doing is my point.
Well, right, exactly.
So we should end the genocide.
And yes, people are going to, if a military entity is committing a genocide, yes, they want death to that military entity.
Again, that military entity is currently slaughtering innocent babies.
We found out just Horetz reported just last week that they were...
They weren't talking about an entity.
They were talking about the soldiers.
They wanted a death to the IDF soldiers.
No, they didn't say death to the IDF soldiers.
They said death to the IDF.
Again, the IDF is a military entity.
If people would like the public to change their sentiments around the IDF, they should advocate for the future.
What do you think the IDF is?
It's a military organization.
Again, if people want, that people are very angry at right now because this military organization is currently slaughtering children and committing genocide.
So anybody that wants more positive sentiment towards the IDF should encourage the IDF to stop killing its own.
All right, so before I go to Hen, just to be clear, do you think he had a right to do what he did?
And should there be any punishment in the way he's been dropped by his agents?
He's been dropped from his visa application and so on.
Do you think he was entitled to do what he did?
Well, I mean, listen, Piers, you know, I'm a huge supporter of free speech.
I think it's terrifying the way.
And when people talk about killing people.
Well, he said death to a military entity.
But what I would say is the criminalization of speech that we've seen in the UK is very concerning to me.
Just the way that I feel like criminalization of speech, even speech that I don't agree with in the US, is also concerning to me.
I don't think arrested or charged with these sort of speech crimes.
All right, but let's go to Hen.
Hen, Mazi, your response to that.
Yeah, I think she's consistent because I remember her Taylor posting once that young people in America don't think that 9-11 happened in a vacuum.
I think that's the sort of approach that she has to all of it.
But personally, I think that those people and every Jew I know felt the same way, that the Gladsbury fans were calling for the death of Israeli soldiers.
What we hear when we hear death to the IDF is that the only line of defense between Jews and another Holocaust should be eradicated.
And we know that it's fact because on October 7th, when the IDF wasn't prepared to what happened in Gaza, we saw the results.
And thank God they came on time to stop it from happening all over.
By the way, did anyone ever chanted death to Hamas in those festivals?
Why is it even happening?
It was truly disgusting to so many of us.
And I mean, I think that all of those artists that are using this conflict and this war to become famous.
I never heard about Bob Vilano, if you did before, or even NECAP.
I just heard about them in this context, never heard about them before.
But I think artists are using it to become relevant again, even though they're not.
And I think it's really troubling.
And it's even more troubling that governments are allowing it, allowing support of terrorism in this way.
Yeah, James, I mean, Glastonbury had the brass neck to put out a statement saying we would never platform anyone who's anti-Semitic.
He's like, you literally platformed NECAP, who were on stage two years ago, chanting their support and leading their fans to chant support for Hamas and Hezbollah.
Hard to imagine anything more anti-Semitic than that.
They also said infamously that you should go and kill your local MP in a country where two MPs have been murdered by deranged people.
So, you know, I didn't understand why NECAP were performing at Glastonbury, given that the BBC was screening all this.
But then for the BBC to actually allow this to go out when they had a way of stopping it, it seems to me, given all the furori that's raged about anti-Semitism and the BBC not doing enough to counter it and zone, a quite extraordinary mistake by them.
I mean, honestly, I'm a bit dyslexic.
So when I heard that Bob Dylan was saying these things, I was very confused.
I was like, why is Robert Zimmerman coming for the kibbutz?
It's not Bob Dylan.
Clearly not.
It's a bit too far, isn't it?
I mean, whatever side you're on here, and hopefully you're on the side of humanity not being killed.
It's a bit far.
I also think it's interesting that it happened at a music festival.
That's quite raw considering October 7th happened at a music festival.
But again.
And I'm not Jewish, but if I was Jewish living in the United Kingdom, there aren't that many Jews in England.
I think it's 300,000 maybe.
You know, I would have felt very unnerved watching an English music crowd, thousands of them chanting death to fellow Jews.
Now, you might try and distinguish it with IDF, but we all know what he meant.
He was saying, you know, go and kill Israeli soldiers.
And I would say in the Ukraine war, I feel that Vladimir Putin waged an illegal invasion of a sovereign democratic country and it's completely outrageous.
But I don't think that I don't wish death on Russian soldiers who are doing his dirty work.
I think you've got to be able to, like I did when I opposed the Iraq war, I didn't blame the UK troops.
I blame the government that sent them.
They do what they're told.
Look, I'm not a leading expert on this.
In fact, I think Ken actually posted over the weekend saying he was sat next to a hairdresser.
That was me on this panel, which is rude to hairdressers because I actually think they're very intelligent.
But your hero was gorgeous.
Thank you so much, Kay.
The worst thing about you is I've had to see your massive head on billboards all through London because of your apparently increasingly successful radio show, which I was completely unaware of.
That was a horrific sign.
Coming over the, I was coming up into London and suddenly one of my sons went, Dad, isn't that James Barrow?
Whoa.
Before breakfast, you love gigantic gurney hysteria.
They didn't nearly crash my car.
Anyway, to more serious matters.
I mean, do you condemn it?
Do you think it was wrong that he did this?
That he started a chant.
Well, it's inciting violence, isn't it?
What I think is interesting is that you are always very pro freedom of speech, but as soon as it is, it's a good learning opportunity.
Like, hate speech is different to freedom of speech, and there should be a counterpart.
Well, actually, I mean, it's criminalized.
In America, you can't incite violence.
It's a good idea.
Yeah, I think that's that line has never been crossed.
They've never said free speech.
I don't think it's a difficult moral line.
Honestly, I don't.
I think the free speech line, when they try and use that as defense for actually encouraging violence, when NECAP said, go and kill your local MP, knowing that two local MPs have been killed, right?
That, I'm afraid, that's not a free speech issue.
That is an incitement to murder.
And similarly, when you get this idiot up there on stage knowing exactly what he's doing, and he probably in cahoots with NECAP, I don't know, but it looked to me like they had encouraged people to go there early.
So they caught this guy.
Kneecap were not going to be put on BBC.
This other guy was.
It looked to me like there was a probably conversation.
And then he just brazenly says, death to the IDF.
Shocking to me.
Well, I'm not one for roadman geopolitics, which he seems to subscribe to.
But also with the whole incitement to violence, context matters.
So John Stuart Mill said, you know, if you say kill a corn dealer outside of a corn dealer's house, that's different to shouting that in the middle of Trafalgar Square.
And I don't think Hamas are waiting for the opinion of people that go to Glastonbury and pay £400 to be in smelly toilets and tents to actually, you know, incite violence against the IDF.
But it is unciding.
The big scandal here is obviously the BBC.
There is no reason why they shouldn't have had some sort of playback or something that slowed down the shop.
Especially all the trouble they've had with Gary Lineker and everything.
Glastonbury is infamous for this.
We saw Stormzy a few years ago, you know, shouting F Boris Johnson and encouraging the crowd to do that.
We know the kinds of people that go to Glastonbury and we know the kinds of people.
And a cursory look at this rapper's background.
He talked about killing the queen, right?
He's on the record of saying the most despicable things.
Why is he being given a platform?
I don't mind that.
There are all sorts of cranks that get given a platform.
Greta Thunberg, who hasn't done anything useful with her life, was got on a fishing boat to Gaza.
I mean, it doesn't bother me that random people do stupid things.
It's the fact that the BBC, which actually has a responsibility to not air hatred, failed spectacularly at this.
They didn't even see it coming, which is shocking.
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Taylor, let me bring Taylor back here.
Do you agree that free speech does not come without accountability?
Otherwise, you can say what you want to say, and he did.
And he got what he wanted, a blaze of publicity, a blaze of headlines.
But now he's feeling the icy chill of accountability dropped by his agency, United Talent Agency, had his visa revoked and so on, which will affect the tour that he was planning to do or they were as a group.
I mean, do you think that that is appropriate punishment if you incite violence?
I think what Hen said about how, you know, artists are doing this for publicity, I disagree with that because it's not beneficial to their careers.
Well, it can be.
Needcap have seen massive ticket sales despite being banned from various places.
In fact, when you get banned, it tends to have the opposite effect, which is probably what will happen with these guys.
Again, I think losing out the way that musicians make money is primarily through touring, especially if you're a small musician and if you suddenly can't tour and you're shut out of the largest market in the West, which is America, I do think that that will have a significant impact on his career.
I just want to say again that we need to keep the focus on the genocide.
I mean, we had hundreds of Israelis chanting death to Arabs, right?
Which was completely shocking.
Just everyone.
Well, I certainly didn't see a lot of the people that are freaking out about Bob Villen speaking in the same way.
You should follow me because you would see the post that I made calling this out, as well as the Israeli government itself that has issued condemnation of it.
Okay, well, that's good to hear that they did that.
Now, what they should do next is stop the genocide.
Again, if people want the public and these artists to have more positive sentiment towards the Israeli military forces, then anyone wants positive sentiment.
I don't know why you twisted it around.
We're saying we don't want anyone to call for the death of anyone.
I mean, if you are advocating for against genocide and you don't want people to be killed, how can you turn around and say at the same breath that you think chanting for death should be contextualized somehow?
Well, yeah, because again, if an army is committing genocide and slaughtering babies and creating the highest rate of child amputees in the world, and if that is what they have done for months and years now, and then the public is rightfully outraged about that.
Calling for their death, that's the issue.
It's not calling for the death of a military entity that is currently committing.
Condemning Institutional Violence 00:04:45
Taylor, you can't keep saying that.
It's a death of the army.
You don't even believe that when you're saying it.
If they say death, they say death to the British Army.
No one's taking that as meaning the institution.
They're taking it as meaning British soldiers.
When people say death to America, they mean death to American imperialism that is subjugated.
No, they don't.
They mean death to Americans.
That's a very generous question.
As the Supreme Leader of Iran, what they mean, doesn't it?
I don't think you even believe this as you're saying it, Taylor, do you?
Again, they didn't say death to Israelis.
They said death to the IDF again.
Who are Israelis?
Genocide.
It's a compulsory service.
We have to join the army in Israel.
And you can choose to not join the army, of course.
Of course, and go to prison.
Between participating in a genocide and slaughtering innocent babies and consciously objecting to the people.
But my point, look, Taylor, my point would be, I have a lot of criticism of what the Israeli government is doing in Gaza right now.
I think it's gone way beyond self-defense.
I've said this publicly.
I'm getting hammered for it by a lot of the more extreme people on the pro-Israeli side, which is fine.
I don't care.
I got hammered by the extreme pro-Palestinians early in this war.
It doesn't matter.
I try and be intellectually honest.
And in this case, I can quite easily be critical of what Netanyahu's doing in Gaza and say it's gone way too far and it has to stop.
And at the same time, recognize that having a rapper on a stage at an English music festival chanting death to the IDF, it's also disgusting and should also be condemned outright by everybody.
And if people can't condemn it, and all due respect, if you try and twist it into, well, he was just talking about the institution, not about individual IDF soldiers, come off it.
But also, individual IDF soldiers are committing genocide.
Individual IDF soldiers are committing war crimes.
And again, we need to...
They are doing what they're doing at the behest of their government, as all military do.
It would be like saying individual soldiers in Iraq from Britain were the real problem when, in fact, the problem was the government that said that.
The problem is the government, and the problem is the people that support the government.
The problem is...
But soldiers don't get a chance.
You don't get a chance.
You sign up to your military and you do what you're told.
Okay, again, I do think that we need to remember that there is a genocide happening and all of these people that are anti-Genocide.
That's kind of irrelevant.
It's kind of irrelevant to what we're talking about.
No one's talking about what you think is a genocide, what other people think is an unnecessary slaughter, other people trying to defend it.
That is one issue.
But that's nothing to do with the right of a rapper to actively call for the death.
The reason why people were chanting that at Glastonbury is because there is so much anti-genocide sentiment because people want the military to stop committing a genocide.
It's not to stop committing a genocide.
They want it to the IDF.
I think there are lots of people that vary this.
Esther, I want to read you what Bobby Villan, the front man, posted a response.
And I said what I said.
As we grow older, he wrote, and our fire possibly starts to dim under the suffocation of adult life and all its responsibilities.
Incredibly important that we encourage and inspire future generations to pick up the torch that was passed to us.
Let them see us marching in the streets, campaigning on ground level, organizing online and shouting about it on and every stage that we are offered.
Today is a change in school dinners.
Tomorrow's a change in foreign policy.
And he kept citing his daughter and everything else.
What he didn't do, Esther, was apologize, right?
So you've got this contrast with the way that this woman who was a carer, who posted incredibly inflammatory incitement to violence after the Stockport murders, realized after a few hours that she shouldn't have done it, deleted it, apologized, but is now serving a 21-month prison sentence.
There's a clear double standard in the way she's been treated and the way so far this rap has been treated, or indeed the way that NECAP were treated for openly calling for MPs to be killed.
Yeah, and this is in a country where 30 people a day are being imprisoned for online messages, which that's the context we're existing in.
Look, I'm not surprised that he didn't apologize, but I think the problem with taking his punishment too far is he becomes a martyr.
He says, oh, look at what happens to me when I speak against the institution.
He becomes a symbol or a hero for anti-establishment individuals.
And that's not the point here.
I'm sure there are many people that would agree with him, as many people who disagree with him.
That's not the point here.
The point is, where do we draw the line with free speech and whether the BBC should have aired this in the first place?
People can argue about whether this is a good thing.
I think the BBC made a massive error.
And that's the main point.
And I don't really know anyone that is looking at this conflict and is not horrified by what's going on in Gaza.
Rod Stewart and Martyrdom 00:03:31
I mean, it's genuinely awful.
It is.
It is.
And I think most people have come around to that way of thinking, that it has to stop.
I posted directly to President Trump because I think he hates war and I think he should just put pressure on Netanyahu now to end this.
It has to stop.
It has to.
Because apart from anything else, I've got a lot of friends who are Jewish, a lot of friends who are Israelis.
And I feel like some get it and some don't.
But the amount, the way that Israel's reputation around the world is suffering as a result of what they're doing here, I'm not sure it's really been communicated properly to the people of Israel.
I don't think they're hearing it.
I think there's a kind of put your finger in your ears and not hear it and just keep barreling on.
And I feel for the average Israeli who's watching this and probably thinking, wow, what's the reputation of our country around the world?
Now, it's not good.
And would it ever recover, especially amongst a generation that's now being groomed to be as anti-Israeli as possible?
I mean, if you're under 35, this is something that will scar your memory forever.
That really should be the conversation as opposed to, you know, cheap celebrities pulling these gimmicks.
There's no one in Gaza that's grateful to Bob Villen for his roadmap and geopolitics.
None whatsoever.
It's a bit like when Greta got on that stupid boat.
It's like, it doesn't do any good to anybody.
James, I'm going to come to you with this.
I want to play you a clip of one of my favorite moments from Glastonbury to lift the mood.
We just ran away.
Patty gave birth to a 10-pound baby by the unharsh deed tonight.
Love it.
Absolutely love.
Sir Rod Stewart, 80 years old.
Do you think I'm sexy?
Yes, I do, Rod.
You're still doing it.
Kicking footballs in the crowd, running around like a teenager.
Unbelievable array of banger songs in the legend slot.
What's not to love, James Barr?
But he sounds like an excellent bully being seized.
That's what's not to love.
Wow.
Wow.
I mean, God bless him.
His voice was great last night.
Really?
Did you watch it?
Did you watch it?
I literally just watched that clip.
Yeah, you've watched the best clip.
You've watched one 20 second clip.
It was not great.
It was a brilliant 90 minutes.
It was brilliant.
It wasn't.
Rod Stewart was brilliant.
It wasn't doing great.
And I read a few.
Actually, don't agree with the reviews were great.
I read some reviews.
They weren't great.
They were saying he'd taken back feminism years.
Listen, he thinks Nigel Farage should be prime minister.
So that's your problem with him.
Well, that's what I have to say.
Maybe.
Yeah, you see, that's what it's really about.
And he said, oh, I'm a Jeremy Corbyn fan.
I love Rod Stewart.
But your musical taste is clouded by who they support politically.
That's not true.
I don't want to be mean to Rod Stewart.
He can believe whatever he wants and his politics are his and that's fine.
But I don't think his voice doesn't stack up to the incredible singers we have today, I feel.
Anyone got a thought on Rod Stewart?
I think he's a legend.
Yes.
You can't argue with that.
Also, one of the nicest, honestly, one of the nicest guys in a business full of complete wankers.
Honestly, he is.
He's also 80.
Like, he doesn't really have to be up there performing.
He's doing it because your chat routine is unbelievable.
Maybe you're all to sing and move amazingly on stage.
I can't move like that and I'm 60.
But, you know, not everyone is everyone's cup of tea.
A lot of people that watch your show absolutely hate me, and that's completely fine.
Maybe I'm okay.
Sabrina Carpenter's Irony 00:10:37
Because they're not like that.
They've got good taste.
All right, let's change the mood here.
So I want to show this.
This is the pop singer Lord, who also appeared at Glastonbury, played a secret gig to launch songs from her new album called Virgin.
But it's the artwork on the album that's causing all the attention.
I haven't seen this yet, but I'm told.
So here we have, this is what we've got here.
So this is the x-ray of her lower abdominal regions.
And then just in case we hadn't quite got the picture, here is her actual lower abdominal region.
And it's unwatched.
Absolutely not.
Let's go to Farah, who's not had a chance to speak yet.
Farah, welcome to Uncensored.
Sorry to interrupt your smoothie government.
Hope you seem to be nourished in time to talk about this.
So can you explain why we need to see this and your pop stars album?
Sure.
I mean, I think people are already seeing it.
Like, keep in mind the fact that 80% of men are watching porn.
Like your husbands, your fathers, your sons, your brothers are already watching this.
And I've said it before, I would see it as a feminist win if the average guy's porn history was as mild as any of these album covers that all of Twitter is taking up arms with, right?
And it's like, we're totally fine with seeing female genitalia in the context of 13-year-old boys and 14-year-old boys watching extremely aggressive and violent content that they're coercing their future partners into undertaking with them.
But then we see someone like Lorde do it and we see it as like extremely humiliating and degrading when there's nothing actually sexual about that image.
So I guess I'm curious what you guys think of it.
There's like nothing sexual in it.
I don't disagree with some of what you just said, but clearly this is intended to be sexual.
I mean, it's not, you know, you don't, you don't literally.
I don't think it is.
I don't think it is.
Really?
Can you not see the pubic hair?
No, I mean, the fact.
Go on.
Sorry, my sound's a little...
Can you hear me?
Get a lot of echo.
Yeah, sorry, it's getting a lot of echo.
This is not supposed to be sexual.
You don't know.
I don't think it's.
No, I honestly think if you pulled the average man, they would be repulsed by that because I think they've trained their brain to literally be repulsed by the idea of female genitalia with hair on it.
I mean, you can like look at top ported categories and see that.
I mean, pull the men on the panel.
Do they find that hot?
I feel like they don't.
Well, do you find that hot?
As a gay man, I think it's slay.
I don't think I'm turned on by it, but I think it's not.
I think it's what?
Slay.
I think it's slay.
No, you're not turned on by it.
But I do think it's hot in a good way.
I think it's, we claim it's her body and she can do what she wants with it.
And I think, like you said about porn and the stuff we see online, like, why is it only okay when men have control over it?
Why when Lord decides to own her own body, her feminism, why is that then?
We've not seen many blows get the same thing.
Would you be happy on her albums?
Would you be happy?
Well, why?
I'd love to see that.
Would you be happier if she was there with an ironing board in the kitchen?
Like, what do you want?
I don't know how I feel about it.
I'm actually, Thara did give me a rather persuasive argument.
So, Esther, what's the counter-argument?
Why can't she be on a beach with like a top and G-shaped?
Why can't she do both?
Why can't she just be smiling?
Why do I need to see your hairy vagina?
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Why is this necessary?
I mean, and the thing is, it's always for the shock factor.
I'm sorry, I've seen Rihanna's boobs.
Nothing shocks me anymore.
Unless you literally put a webcam up your uterus and take live pictures, nothing surprises me anymore.
I don't want to say that.
No, no, please.
I said uterus since we're talking about women.
This is completely unnecessary.
And also, like, why?
I just, I never even saw Lord as a sexual person because I actually respected her for her talent.
And now I just think, oh, we're talking about it.
Hen, what's your view?
Yeah, no, I mean, we're talking about it.
I guess that's what she's trying to say.
That's true.
She's getting it.
So there's another star out there, Sabrina Carpenter.
So let me bring Taylor in on this one because I actually thought this one was a bit more unsettling.
I kind of with you, Farah, on the Lord one.
I don't really have a big problem with that.
This one I thought was a bit more problematic because this was supposed to be some great sort of feminist statement by one of the biggest pop stars in the world.
But it kind of I just felt like, yeah, what message is she sending her young female fans here?
What did you think of it?
I think, I mean, Sabrina Carpenter is known for being very like.
No, sorry, that was for, I was asking Taylor, actually.
Taylor.
I think Sabrina Carpenter is very like tongue-in-cheek with her sexuality.
And you can see this even on stage with the various positions that she does with Juno and stuff like that.
So I mean, I don't think that, I don't think that her, you know, doing anything with this album cover is like anti-feminist or something.
But it was called Man's Best Friend, the album.
I think that's, I think she's, again, I think like which is a dog, right?
Right.
And I think it's a joke because, I mean, I think like, if you listen to her actual, is it a joke or is it playing into a stereotypical view of a man mistreating a woman?
I think she is, again, doing it sort of in this like ironic way.
And I think that her fans recognize that, but I also agree with her.
They're quite young.
I mean, my daughter's a big fan of her.
She's 13.
I mean, they're young girls.
They're not having fully formed views about this.
I mean, the imagery is sort of weird, isn't it?
I mean, I just think for you, I'm thinking particularly of her young female fans, of which there are millions.
Do you feel comfortable with that?
This outrage reminds me of like when people were like, What about her young female fans?
You know, seeing positions with Juno.
I just think like female artists are sexualized by the public, by men, by the record industry so much.
And there only seems to be outrage when they sort of express sexuality or try to make commentary on sexuality in their own terms.
Oh, that's complete rubbish.
Every female artist at some point goes through like a sexuality phase than we expected.
I think that's the point here.
I feel like this is a film reference.
So, was it Secretary that filmed with Maggie Gyllenhol back in 2001?
I think that's the reference here because the pose and everything kind of reminiscent of that era.
And I think that's what it is.
And Sabrina Carpenter has already made it clear.
Her concerts are not for children.
She's always said, you know, I'm a confusion.
Yes, but they're not for children.
If you're going to take the risk to take your child there, then get ready for them to see a whole lot of cheeks.
Because it's a piece of ironic, you know, like ironic feminism.
Well, yeah, I don't think it's feminine.
Like, why does everything have to be feminist?
This is what I don't understand.
Not everything has to have a feminist angle.
She's a grown woman.
She's 25, 26.
She can do what she wants.
I don't have a problem with it.
I have a problem when I'm looking at Lord's uterus.
That's too much for me or her hairy vagina.
Okay.
Hen, what do you think of that?
I mean, for me, it's just, I think women should be able to do what they want to do.
I, you know, I do think it's sexual, and I think there's a message there that we can't ignore, but it's their decision.
I don't think a lot of men are doing it.
But as Jane said, if they wanted, I mean, he would love to see it.
Would you, Piers?
What?
The Sabrina Carpenter picture?
No, would you like to see X-rays of male genital?
No, it moves on to Sabrina Carpenter.
I think I'm more shocked actually here that Esther is offended by Bush.
I'm really shocked by that.
I thought you would love a bit of Bush.
But what about to come back to Sabrina Carpenter picture?
You know, my only issue with it is just whether a young, impressionable girl fan is going to look at that and get the wrong message.
Well, look at this surrounding American culture and Western culture.
That's what's going to give them the wrong message about women and women's rights and women's sexuality.
They're bombarded with wrong messages.
I think also, this is an album cover.
These artists are trying to get attention.
They're trying to generate discussion.
Part of it, I think, is feeding publicity.
I think it's crazy that you're picking on Sabrina Carpenter as the issue about very talented.
There's so much wrong with the internet.
There's so many things that people shouldn't see.
You're picking on an album cover that not as many people have access to.
Should you fuel the internet porn phenomenon?
I think you have to take control of things about that cover.
I feel that she is, yeah.
Mara, what do you think?
Well, first of all, I just don't know where we got this idea that it's unfeminist to sexualize a woman or for a woman to be sexual, right?
Like feminists have never taken up arms with the idea of a woman even feeding into the male gaze.
If that were the case, feminists would be against even like blowing your boyfriends or your husbands, which obviously feminists are not purporting.
Or they would say any man who's even like constantly with his wife is like a misogynistic pig, right?
So I don't know why we think it's unfeminist to even like sexualize yourself in the public eye.
Like what feminists have had a problem with in terms of sexualization is they've said like, hey, please don't sexualize us in the workforce.
That's me too.
Hey, please don't sexualize us.
When we're like walking down the street, that's like protest, street harassment.
Hey, please don't sexualize us when we say we're not interested.
That's like my boobs out on a Saturday.
Or I can, I'm sorry, this idea that, yes, you can just pretend like we haven't seen your spread bumhole on the internet so you can pay your rent, but we should treat you as a professional on a Monday.
Okay, fine, but they've still seen it.
And I appreciate we should be respectful and have boundaries.
But this idea that women can have it both ways, yes, you can get your tits out to free the nipple, but then you must also treat you like a hard-working professional and pretend like you didn't just get your kit off to make a bit of work.
Should your husband and boyfriend not respect you?
Because everyone has ever had sex.
Everyone should be respected.
But let's not pretend.
Let's not pretend.
Let's not pretend that a woman getting her clothes.
No, hold on.
No one is advocating for disrespect.
Respect is a baseline for every single human, man, woman, whatever.
But this ridiculous idea that, oh, yes, I'm a woman.
I can spread my anus on the internet to pay my rent and get my top off and walk the streets to free the nipple.
And there should be no difference between that and me being a professional attorney and no one should view me differently.
I'm sorry, you can't get it both ways.
You can do what you want, but you cannot tell people how to view you.
If we're talking about respect, we're on the same page.
Of course, everyone deserves respect.
But we don't live in a society that people are going to be selectively, have selective amnesia and forget the fact that they've just seen a woman in a complete state of undress.
So you are talking about her.
So she can commercialize herself on the internet as an online person.
Bezos Sanchez Wedding Critique 00:03:32
I'm sorry.
That's the key difference.
Then, if you're saying that, like you cannot tell the public what to think about you when you choose to behave in certain ways just like if I was walking down the street and I saw someone walking my direction naked I'm crossing the road because you can tell me not to judge a book by a cover, but if you leave your house completely naked, I'm just going to assume you're not all there and I'm not going to come around you.
It's really that simple.
All right, let's talk about people who left their house and went to Venice, James the Jeff Bezos, Lauren Sanchez, nuptials some have described it as a disgusting, Grotesque waste of millions of dollars and all these ghastly celebrities going down there.
Other people, including me, I have to say, a bit of much-needed light relief when all around is misery, mayhem, war or pestilence, and famine.
Your thoughts?
Well, I'm quite jealous of the amount of work Lauren's had, to be honest.
I thought she looked great.
I think she looks amazing.
I'd like that much plastic.
I would like a fish to choke on my face when I die.
You cannot be serious.
I think she looks incredible.
I think it looked like a lovely day.
I don't know what to say, Piers.
I think it's a grotesque waste of money.
I think there's way better uses for money.
I mean, Taylor, Jeff Bezos is worth $200 billion.
If they want to fritter a few million on a wedding for 200 of their closest Kardashian friends, why shouldn't they?
Well, yeah.
I guess.
Yeah, I mean, I also think it's a grotesque waste of resources.
I was sort of interested in who their social circle was.
It seemed like there weren't abnormal people at that wedding.
It was like all celebrities and like the Kardashians and the people.
There were 200 and apparently, I think I read 70 were family.
So quite a lot of family.
We're just like A-list celebrities, I guess.
Well, they were the ones who got photographed.
We probably didn't see all the ones who were not well known.
Yeah.
I don't know.
There was just a lot of people there that I was like, huh, I didn't know that those people were in, you know, like the Bezos Sanchez circle.
I mean, the thing that made me laugh was people in Venice whining about this, you know, sickening exploitation and commercialization of their greater city.
I was like, have you been to Venice?
Have you tried to hire a gondola?
Have you tried to buy a cornetto?
I mean, do you know how much they flee stories all year round?
It's like, please, do me a favor.
We're all in the same exploitation, commercialization business.
Farah, what did you think of the Bezos-Lawrence Sanchez wedding?
Sorry, I misheard the original point.
Can you say it again?
Well, no, what did you think of the Jeff Bezos-Lauren Sanchez wedding?
Were you in favor of this ostentatious display of wealth or sickened by it?
I didn't keep up.
I didn't know much about it.
What, you didn't even notice?
No, I actually didn't know about it.
Wow.
Have I broken news to you that Jeff Bezos has married Lauren Sanchez?
No, yeah.
I just didn't know much about the wedding.
I just knew it was like a tight wedding with a bunch of celebrities, right?
Do you know who they are, Jeff Bezos and Lauren Sanchez?
Yeah, I know who they are.
Yeah, I just didn't keep up with the wedding details.
Wow.
You didn't miss much.
You're a cultural commentator, and the biggest cultural event of the week has passed you by.
It was no Megan and Harry, was it?
Well, that was...
That was a wedding.
That was a wedding.
Hen, what's your view of this?
I mean, look, there's a lot of serious stuff going on.
I kind of thought it was a bit of light relief.
I've met Jeff Bezos and Lauren Sanchez a few times.
They're always very nice.
They seem to have a nice, happy life.
That's why you like them.
Why do we care?
Well, you know what?
I take people exactly as I find them.
Missing the Bezos News 00:02:59
That's why I've always found you incredibly annoying.
But Hen, do you care?
No, I mean, I'm a geopolitical commentator and I've noticed a wedding, so I'm really surprised some people haven't followed it as closely.
I think, you know, we're in a different era.
I think a lot of people are able to show their wealth in a way that they haven't felt comfortable before.
Maybe it's Trump, maybe it's...
It's Instagram, actually.
It's Instagram.
It could be.
People have got used to showing off on Instagram, which is the only point of Instagram.
And I'm one of the biggest culprits, but I think it's funny.
But people who try and take themselves seriously on Instagram, no, we're all showing off.
Facebook, everyone shows off pictures that are annoying children.
Instagram, they show off pictures of their lives as glamorous as possible to annoy everybody.
And X is for people gobbing off their opinions nobody wants to hear.
That's it.
She landed a cover in Vogue.
I think we should.
Which is just...
Okay, I probably, I'm not a hater.
I promise.
You're about to hate her.
Joking, you're the biggest hater of them all.
Ridiculous couple, Esther, you live under a bridge.
Honestly, Michael has more plastic in her face than Tupperware.
It is so like she wore lingerie to the inauguration.
I mean, it's just, I wish them every happiness.
All right, I find them a ridiculous couple.
I couldn't disagree more, but everyone's entitled to their opinion.
Um, I want to end very quickly.
This is for you, James.
Um, a big debate raging since the NATO summit, where Mark Rutter, the NATO Secretary General, as I'm sure you're aware, um, referred to Trump's tough talking style as daddy has to sometimes use strong language.
And it led to the White House doing uh this uh sod about daddy's home.
I just want to get your attention.
I wanna be all up in your head.
Isn't you sick?
Daddy's on home.
It's time to say, You ain't got to give my love away.
And there's a lot of merch around this, including the daddy's home shirt.
I just thought, James, knowing how much you love Trump, I just think you wearing the daddy's home Donald Trump shirt.
I'm going to ever give you anything.
Oh, wow.
Shall I put it on now?
Yes, please.
Okay, I'm down.
Yeah, here we go.
I'm dressing.
This is something without too much tripping first.
I hope I get paid extra for this.
James Barr in the daddy's home Trump shirt.
You see, I mean, I would quite like Donald Trump to be my daddy, to be honest, because then I'd be his son, and he'd probably be more of a fan of abortion.
Oh, gazing.
All right, on that unfortunate note, we'll leave it.
Thank you to my panel.
Thank you to Farah and to Taylor over in the United States.
I appreciate it.
Farah, I'll send you pictures of the wedding so you don't feel like you missed out irrevocably.
And thank you to Hen and Esther and James.
Yeah, appreciate it.
Jake Paul Boxing Reality 00:12:46
Well, last week on Sencil, I interviewed YouTuber Jake Paul about his ladies' exhibition bout.
This is how it all ended.
I think you're a great YouTuber, a great influencer.
I admire what you try to do in boxing, but I do think when you actually come up against a proper serious boxer, it could all come crashing down.
Is that you think that your opinion matters?
Well, why are you doing my show if it doesn't?
Oh, I'm just taking your audience to sell pay-per-views.
I don't give a fuck about it.
Dumbass, this is a fucking business enterprise.
Buy the pay-per-view on Saturday, June 28th.
Me versus Julio Cesar Chavez Jr.
Thank you.
Tune in, everybody.
Cheers, Jake.
Really enjoyed that.
Well, I've had a lot of feedback for that interview.
Most of it, I have to say, glowingly positive.
One interested viewer is MMA star Dylan Dannis, a longtime tormentor of the Paul's, and he joins me now.
Dylan, welcome back to Uncensored.
How you doing, man?
I feel like I really, really, really got under Jake Paul's skin.
It was perfect.
You played his game to a T and you beat him at it.
You like rage-baited him 10 out of 10.
It was amazing to see.
It's kind of fucked up that I'm giving him this kind of platform because his pay-per-view probably sold about 38, maybe 40 pay-per-views.
But, you know, here we are.
Yeah, I mean, what was interesting was that he, what he didn't like was me casting any kind of suspicious aspersion over the quality of his opponents, even though everyone in the fight game knows any kind of fight game that he is deliberately selecting fights that are not really much of a test for him.
You know, if he fought Mike Tyson when Tyson was 22, that's one thing.
Fighting Mike Tyson when he's 58 and you're half his age is clearly set up for you to not get knocked out.
Exactly.
And I think, no offense to you, but even when he was like Anderson Silva, Anderson Silva was 48, 47.
Yeah.
So you could have called him out on that.
And then he was saying champions of their own sport.
So he's talking about Tyron Woodsley and these guys.
They're MMA champions.
That would be like Christian or that would be like Ronaldo saying, oh, I beat Derek Jeter in soccer.
So it doesn't make any sense of what he's saying.
He's now threatening to sue me for suggesting.
We're going to be on the same team here.
We're going to be both getting fucking sued by the Pauls.
That's all they do.
I think you've still got some outstanding losses with them, yeah.
Yeah, so I can't say too much about it because I'm still in a lawsuit.
I have another deposition the 27th, but now he's going after you.
I mean, you have way more money than me, I think.
So you'll be able to handle that pretty easy.
But him suing you is like someone suing McDonald's for calling their food like junk food or something like that.
It's bullshit.
So everything you said was true.
I mean, literally everything you said was true, and he couldn't handle it.
I don't see how he can possibly contradict the fact that he clearly stages fights, which are to his obvious benefit, right?
Because he's choosing opponents who are not at their peak.
They're way past their peak.
They're either much older or from other disciplines or whatever.
He is staging events that are entertaining on a certain level.
You know, he's making a ton of money.
But the idea that these are doing anything but damaging the integrity of boxing, I think, is for the birds.
I think he's ruining the sport.
100% ruining the sport.
I think people are starting to catch on, though, because it seemed like this one, no one was talking about, no one really cared about.
I feel like people are just like, oh, this is bullshit now.
So he doesn't have the kind of shit that he had before when he was playing the MMA guys.
They're like, oh, we'll see if he can win because he's a Disney star.
I think right now we're just giving him the platform that he doesn't have anymore.
I mean, you can see by his socials that no one really cares about his fights.
And yeah, I think he's ruining the sport.
And I think that the way he was going at you, if you had a little bit more ammo on him, like he was saying he fought two guys that were boxers.
I don't even know their names.
Well, I made a little note, actually, or my team did, of his entire boxing record, right?
I can tell you every single guy and tell you.
Well, I can tell you.
So number one was Ali Al Thackri, who was a YouTuber.
Number two was Nate Robinson, a former basketball player in his first ever boxing bout.
Number three was Ben Askrid, MMA fighter, making his pro-boxing debut.
Then Tyron Woodley, pro-debut for MMA fighter Woodley.
Then Tyron Woodley, the rematch.
Anderson Silva, 47-year-old, as you said, MMA fighter.
He then fought an actual boxer, Tommy Fury, who, and he lost.
He then fought Nate Diaz, which was a pro-boxing debut for Diaz.
He was 38.
He then fought Andre August, an unknown 35-year-old who only had a few fights previously.
He then fought Ryan Borland, a former amateur boxer who hung up his gloves to work on oil rigs in 2018 before coming back to fight him.
He then fought number 11, Michael Perry, 32-year-old MMA star who'd had one previous boxing bout, which he'd lost.
He then fought a 58-year-old Mike Tyson.
And then he fought Chavez Jr., who looked, I mean, it was an extraordinary fight where Chavez Jr. didn't even try and lay a punch for about eight rounds.
I think I don't want to say he's right because obviously we're going to get sued here, but I just think Jake is that bad.
I don't think Jake has the ability to even knock out, you know, Travis Jr., who just came out of rehab and has been an addict his whole life, who's quit on the stool multiple times.
He's a terrible fighter.
They picked him because they thought they could probably knock him out.
And then he could be like, oh, you know, Canelo didn't knock him out, so I knocked him out.
That was his whole thinking.
And I think that the fight was harder for him.
In the last couple of rounds, I saw he was getting pieced up.
I didn't really watch the fight because I was watching UFC or Real Men watch.
And I just saw a couple of highlights at the end that he was getting pieced up, but the steroids are starting to get to him.
He was getting tired.
Well, they didn't do any drugs tests, so we don't actually know about that.
We've posted a video of him doing a body test.
It was the same thing for me and the Logan fight.
So, when me and the Logan fight, it's like, hey, the day before, we're going to do a piss test.
And Logan's part of the promotion.
So, like, I don't know.
Obviously, I've never done steroids, but anybody that is in sports knows if you know this day you're going to take a piss test.
It's very easy to get past it.
That's all you've seen.
I also think he's he sounds very rattled.
Like, he was asked about my interview in the post-fight interview, and he said this during the week, you had a viral interview with Piers Morgan where he said that he didn't think that you would beat Chavez.
He felt like if when you fight a former world champion, you'll come unstuck.
What did you prove to not only him, but other people that have criticized you?
Yeah, look, at the end of the day, actions speak louder than words, so people can sit behind their desks and sit on their TV shows and say a lot of things about my career.
But everyone's tuning in, everyone's watching, and I just continue to win.
And when I suggested that these weren't perhaps the most, you know, full of integrity bouts that he could possibly be having, he posted on X after years of letting it slide as just haters being haters.
Oh, I don't hate him at all.
I've asked my team to vigorously go after anyone who makes up lies about my boxing career, expecting to get served you pigs.
Well, I presume he's talking to me.
I don't mind being called a pig by Jake Paul.
He seems to be a world authority and being a rude pig.
But having just listed his entire boxing career record, I would just like him to just accept and acknowledge that he's not a real boxer having really challenging fights.
What he is, is somebody who's latched on to turning boxing into a form of entertainment, of light entertainment.
That's what it is.
And he's making a ton of money.
He should just be more open about it.
Yeah.
And that's the thing I kind of respect about KSI is that he kind of says, you know what, we're having fun with this.
I don't want to be a crazy boxer.
I don't want to be professional.
I don't want to do this.
We're just going to have fun with it.
These guys just can't handle the back and forth.
Like, you're too good at it.
And me and KSI were supposed to come on your show when we're about to fight.
I don't know if you knew he pulled out of our fight.
Yeah.
And we wouldn't come on your show because I think you're too hard.
And he said, like, just said literally in the chat for DeZone, they said KSI will not do Piers Morgan.
So I think when you put these guys on the spot and you're better at what they do, they just can't handle it.
And that's the thing I was saying that between me and you, we can give it and we could take it.
Obviously, you know, like, you know, we could talk about it.
But also, I've been doing boxing training now for a few months.
I have actually been in the room with many people.
I'm in his right age wheelhouse.
You know, I'm 60 years old with zero professional boxing experience.
So I'm pretty much his perfect target for his next fight.
I think you're next up, and he has no appointments.
He has no pay-per-view sales.
I think you guys will be doing the best numbers that he has.
I just feel like he's really rattled.
I've got right under his skin because I've exposed the reality of what is going on here.
And he doesn't want people to think anything other than these are legitimate.
I mean, it's amazing who supported him, actually.
Ryan Garcia said this.
You can't say Jake's fights are rigged.
It's getting ridiculous.
He's just winning.
May not be against the people you want or are qualified to give him a challenge, but it's just because he's popular.
He has 11 pro fights.
He's on a similar path as most pros.
But that's simply not true.
Most pros don't fight a bunch of MMA guys.
Ryan Garcia is another juice head that is fucking crazy in the head.
Also, they used to do fake videos of them pretending to fight.
And like they're, you know, he helped them kind of get his name out there in the influencer world.
And that's why Ryan Garcia got so popular.
So he's going to have his back on that.
But yeah, he's just bullshitting.
I mean, they're two juice heads.
They've both been popper steroids.
Would you like to fight Jake Paul?
I know you obviously.
I'll sign a check on your show right now.
Yeah, for as much money as you want, that he cannot knock me out and that I would put it on him.
I think Logan is a better boxer than him.
And, you know, I've been through my shit after losing to Logan.
I mean, you know, I haven't ever talked about what happened with that camp and everything I was going through.
I would love to have that rematch.
We're supposed to have an MMA.
I'm a free agent in MMA right now.
And Jake is saying that he could fight in PFO.
We could fight in PFO.
We do whatever.
But Jake sucks.
I mean, Jake knows that.
And these guys, I know them.
I knew them before they did the boxing.
Like, Jake is such a wannabe.
Like, he was such a nice kid and like such a like, I don't know how to explain him.
He was just such a goody two-shoe.
And he, like, the first time I met him, Logan came up to me and was like, he promised you won't beat up my brother.
Then you guys can talk.
And yeah, whatever.
I swear to God, this is a true story.
We talked for like an hour, and he was just like, telling me, like, I'm not ready to fight you yet.
Like, I'm just learning boxing and this and that.
And then he started getting the tattoos.
And he, you know, he wanted to be on earth doing all the tattoos and shaving the head.
And then he's in the ring wearing a Puerto Rican outfit.
Like, he's just, he's trying to be something that he's not, you know?
Yeah.
But obviously, now with the lawsuit and like all the shit that's going on, I don't think he would do it because obviously it would fuck up everything with Logan.
Because I think that's what happened with the KSI fight.
Logan was threatening to sue the zone the whole time.
They were taking down posts.
He was going at KSI saying he was going to take shares of prime from him.
But these guys are just fake.
And I think that's why he got so upset because the only reason they're so and also, I mean, if I'd had a chance to continue the interview, I'd have pointed it out to you.
Look, mate, you know, I may not be a professional boxer, but at least I'm the best boxer in my family.
I mean, he's not even that.
Yeah, exactly.
He's trash, man.
I mean, at the end of the day, he's doing what he's doing.
It's just building a career out flies, you know, and it's bullshit.
I think we should suggest a double header.
You have the rematch with Logan, which will be the real fight between two proper fighters, and I'll take on Jake Paul in a pay-per-view to end all pay-per-views.
I'd fancy my chances.
Honestly, I would.
I'd fancy my chances.
I do too, but I don't think you're old enough for him.
I'm older.
But yeah, it depends on him.
You have to be old enough.
You have to make sure.
Lonely 60 is the problem.
Yeah.
And that could be a problem.
Dylan, I'm going to leave it there.
Great to talk to you.
But just to be clear, you are ready to fight him if he's got the balls to do it.
I'll sign my contract away and give it to anybody that wants it.
I mean, he's trash.
He's trash.
I'll fight an MMA, any rule set he wants.
So, you know, whatever, it is what it is.
But I love what you did to him.
I think you beat him at his own game.
You fucking rage baited the shit out of him and you put him in his, you know, and I think you showed everybody who he is in the inside.
He's an insecure little boy that can't handle it.
You know, just a massive baby.
He's a massive.
I've had four babies and they behave better than he does.
Exactly.
Dylan, great to talk to you.
Thank you very much.
Good seeing you.
All the best.
Rage Baiting Jake Paul 00:00:24
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