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June 9, 2025 - Uncensored - Piers Morgan
01:16:21
20250609_still-in-disbelief-musk-on-epstein-trump-war-drug-
Transcriber: nvidia/parakeet-tdt-0.6b-v2, sat-12l-sm, and large-v3-turbo
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Musk's Credibility Crisis 00:09:45
Thank you, Elon.
Take care, Yes.
My time as a special governor points really had to end.
They've had a spec.
It's not the end of the world.
What is important is that we have Donald Trump as president.
On the big question of Elon and drug taking, from your knowledge of him, what is the reality?
Totally, absolutely false.
As the head of Stray Six, he's under regular chit-ups like all the staff.
that they are squeaking clean.
Elon is a monster.
He's already, you know, caused the death of 300,000 people around the world.
But he's got Trump dead to rights on the Epstein stuff, on the fact that he was able to buy the election.
And also, oh, by the way, he should be impeached.
Do you think that the Democrats, if there was anything criminal at all in the Epstein files that could have remotely been used against Trump, do you think they wouldn't have used it?
This was the real Simone Biles calling me a truly sick, disgusting bully.
Even still, I'm in disbelief over this comment.
Yes, I have muscles, as most athletes do, but I would imagine two of the world's most successful men with two of the world's biggest egos were never going to be BFFs for long.
But the speed and intensity of Elon Musk's separation from President Trump has been dramatic and, let's face it, quite entertaining too.
The question, though, is whether it will damage the president or damage Elon Musk more.
We'll also debate the anti-ICE protests gripping Los Angeles and the president's decision to deploy the National Guard against the wishes of Governor Newsom.
And I'll talk to Riley Gaines about her astonishing feud on X with Simone Biles.
We're joining me to discuss all this, the founder of Outkick, Clay Travis, Crystal Ball, host of Breaking Points, and Brian Shapiro, host of Pushing the Limits.
And we have other guests who will be joining us a little later.
All right, Clay Travis, I've been following you on X in the last week.
You've been rampant, I think it'd be fair to say, about all of this stuff.
But let's start with the Trump-Musk fallout because it's kind of fascinating.
It's entertaining.
The whole world's agog as it was all unfurling live on Elon's platform, X. There seems to have been a little bit of a cooling down in the last like 48 hours or so.
Where do you think we are with these two?
I think Elon Pierce had a huge temper tantrum, and I think he regrets it.
And as someone I know you've raised kids, I've raised kids.
Sometimes Twitter and X, it's great for letting you know exactly what people think emotionally, but it isn't necessarily the best place to go where you are when you feel rational.
And I think what really this happened was Musk was really upset that Trump pulled the nomination of his friend to be in charge of NASA.
And I think he is not really that experienced in the political arena.
And he wanted to move fast and break things as he's done with all of his companies.
I think he's the greatest capitalist peers in the history of the world.
That's not hyperbole.
And the problem is he's not in charge of the government.
And the work that he did, the attacks that he got, I think he was unprepared for them.
I think they built up.
And the decision about the NASA head was what really kind of put him over the edge.
And then he didn't like a couple of the minor comments that Trump made.
And he just lost it.
And I think he regrets.
For people out there who watch Seinfeld, a part of me feels like he might pull a George Costanza and just pretend none of this ever happened, that he didn't quit, show up at the White House and do a handshake at another press conference with Trump.
And I think Trump's actually been the adult in the room here because I think he understands Elon and understands this was just basically a temper tantrum that got out of control.
Yeah, I mean, Brian, you know, it's interesting to watch it, obviously for the delectation of the world is entertaining, like I said, on a certain level.
There's also a more serious part to this.
I mean, Elon Musk was brought in to launch Doge.
He was going to get stuck into government waste.
We went from $2 trillion as the ambition to a trillion to then, I think in the end, a couple of hundred billion.
And at the same time, the Big Beautiful Bill is predicted to put at least $2 trillion, maybe more, onto the debt.
So it didn't seem like there was much point to what Elon ended up doing or was able to achieve in that time.
And that's quite a damning indictment of how the government system works, isn't it?
I also think it's an indictment of Donald Trump and Donald Trump can be bought.
This was the guy who donated, what, $300 million plus to Donald Trump's campaign, and Trump puts him in charge of Doge.
And then Clay Travis is comparing him to a child having a temper tantrum.
Well, doesn't that hurt the credibility of Donald Trump then?
Why would he put him in a position of this power?
And by the way, accusing him of being in the Epstein files, where are the Epstein files?
Why haven't they been released?
I don't hear many MAGA Republicans like Clay Travis talking about that.
You know, Clay, we've heard from MAGA Republicans calling Democrats pedophiles for years.
Where are all you guys now?
Why haven't the Epstein files been released?
So I actually take Elon Musk's side on this, and I think it hurts Donald Trump's credibility once again, and it proves that the president could be bought.
It's the only reason why Elon Musk was put in this position in Doge in the first place.
Well, we've got Roger Stone who's joining us now.
Roger, welcome back to One Censored.
Good to see you and looking magnificent in your white suit, I have to say.
This issue of what Elon Musk called the big bomb, that as he said, time to drop the really big bomb.
Donald Trump is in the Epstein files.
That's the real reason they've not been made public.
Now, interestingly, Elon has since deleted that tweet as he has the call for Trump to be impeached.
So whether he's got buyers' remorse on his own tweets, we don't know.
But certainly what that has done is intensified, exactly as Brian just said, attention to the fact that despite promises to the contrary, these Epstein files have not been released.
And now everyone's going to be thinking, because Elon Musk has been right there with Trump for the last six months or so at least, that there must be something in there about Trump that is preventing them being released.
And even if that isn't the case, that's what everyone's going to think now until or if they're released.
Let me say a couple of things.
First of all, I think Elon Musk did the country a great service by establishing the largest free speech-based social media platform in the world.
But once he released all of the hard evidence that the government was working with executives at Twitter to censor political speech or speech about health or any speech that wasn't okay with the government, he put a target on his back.
He was almost immediately the subject of nine different investigations.
I think he figured out that if Kamala Harris was elected, they would have probably canceled his government contracts, destroyed his companies, and perhaps even put him in jail.
So he helped Donald Trump, and I think he was of substantial help, although only Donald Trump elected Donald Trump.
I've written a book, Clinton's War on Women, covers the Epstein matter very exclusively.
I read all of the pleadings of the Epstein victims.
There is nothing to this.
Donald Trump was on Epstein's plane one time.
It flew from New York to Palm Beach and back.
Marla Maples, his wife at the time, and his daughter Tiffany were on the plane.
Never went to the island, never went to his ranch.
This is a canard.
I think it was irresponsible of Elon to throw it out.
I too would like to see the release of the files.
However, I think Cash Platel summed this up.
The DVDs, the hard drives that were removed from Epstein's home seem to have disappeared under the previous administration.
So, and the impeachment thing is beyond the pale.
Elon is right.
We do need to cut federal spending.
I would just argue that the big beautiful bill was not the place to do it.
The tax relief there in itself merits the passage of the bill.
They just sent a rescission bill up for $9 billion.
Seems like a lot of money, but it's about 5% of what Elon Musk has identified.
We're going to have to do much, much better.
Okay, I saw you smirking a bit there, Crystal.
I don't think you're fully buying into Roger's narrative of this.
So over to you.
So, I mean, let's start with the Epstein piece.
We have tapes of Jeffrey Epstein saying he and Trump are besties for a decade.
We have photos and videos of them together.
We know he was on the plane.
Now, suddenly, his administration, they did this fake thing with the influencers where they released these binders of information that was already public.
Now you have Kash Patel going on with Joe Rogan and claiming that the cameras were on on the cell and that for sure we know he definitely killed himself.
I mean, it doesn't take a genius to put two and two together between Trump's direct connections to Epstein and the potential, the pro-Israel tilt of the Trump administration, the potential intelligence ties to imagine some reasons why this was never going to come out and why the right was foolish to ever believe that this was going to come out.
The Epstein Theory 00:14:53
That's number one.
Number two, to still run around and pretend like Elon or anybody on the right are committed to free speech as we watch the crushing of dissent with regard to Palestine in particular is so laughable that it is preposterous that you guys still make these claims.
Number three, on the big beautiful bill, you are giving a giant tax cut away to the rich in order, in order to make sure that you can cut, you're cutting the health care of poor people to fund this giant tax cut to the rich.
It's a gigantic giveaway.
Elon is a monster.
He's already caused the death of 300,000 people around the world.
The estimates are that that's going to be millions over time.
But he's got Trump dead to rights on the Epstein stuff, on the fact that he was able to buy the election, that the tariffs are going to cause a recession.
And also, oh, by the way, he should be impeached.
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All right, Clay, I can see you having, I think it looks like an anaphylactic shock occurring live on television.
So over to you.
Well, first of all, let me start with Elon.
The greatest capitalist, I believe, that has ever existed in the history of the world.
You look at what he's done with Tesla, you look at what he's done with Tesla.
How is Tesla doing these days, by the way?
It's one of the greatest success stories in the history of the world.
So, really well.
It is doing fabulous.
How that stopped image around the world.
How many cards, Pax?
It's fabulous.
The stock price is one of the highest in the valuation in the history of the world.
Like, if you're going to say it's not great, it's okay, but it's one of the five or six.
But isn't the problem, Clay?
Let me ask you this.
It was worth it.
Clay, let me ask you this.
This is crazy.
Let's look at another.
Tesla is a great way to do it.
Here's the reality.
Let me just say this.
Tesla's a great, great company, but it's definitely had a lot of brand damage because of what's been going on with Elon in Washington.
And that just begs the question.
If you're, I'm trying to get an interview with Elon, I'd love to ask him, you know, does he regret getting so heavily into the political arena, given the obvious impact it's had in a negative way on his personal brand and therefore the brands that have been built around him?
Tesla, SpaceX, and others.
I don't know.
It's a fabulous question.
I think the answer, stepping into Elon's reactions here on Twitter, I think the actual, the reaction would be and the answer would be yes, because I think he thought, as many CEOs do, hey, if I get in and look at the books and I see the inefficiencies, I'm going to fix it.
I think that's what he thought.
He's an engineer at heart and he looked at the books as a businessman for the government, as an engineer, and said, we're spending way too much money.
And I think he has been frustrated by how little he can do when he wants to make something happen at SpaceX or Tesla or Neuralink or any of these companies that he owns.
He can do it.
I think the frustration with politics is not an engineering problem.
It's a political problem.
And those are very different things.
And I think as a capitalist, he didn't want to go into his hands and said, this is frustrating.
I mean, he didn't want to.
First of all, I didn't.
I didn't want to go into the Pentagon.
He didn't want his own.
I don't want to go there too.
But the Big Beautiful Bill has a $1 trillion Pentagon budget.
Like, this is an agency that has never passed a federal audit.
So that would be the first place you look.
And instead, he did nothing there.
I've never taken on its face.
No, no, that's not true.
I've never taken on its face the claim that Doge was about cost cutting in any case.
Doge is costing the federal government money based on the cuts they made at the IRS.
It has made it less efficient.
Just try to get your social security check and tell me how well the government is working in the wake of Doge.
But Elon did accomplish some things that were important to him.
All those investigations into his companies, which were rightfully going forward, that's all gone.
The CFPB, the anti-scam bureau that was set to regulate Twitter, that is not, is basically doesn't exist anymore.
I think these are the things that are going to be a lot of people.
And he was able to suck out data out of the federal government.
God knows what he's going to do with that.
So yes, it's been damaging to him.
I'm sure he has many regrets, but let's also not pretend like he didn't accomplish incredible destruction and damage that also personally was beneficial to him as well.
Can I just say that's true?
I think if Elon could be able to do that.
Hang on, Brian, I'll come to you next.
But just Clay, just respond to that.
I think in retrospect, Elon probably wishes that he had not taken the Doge job because I do think it's made his capitalism jobs more difficult.
And I think that's part of why he had the temper tantrum that he did.
It doesn't change the fact that he's the greatest capitalist in the history of the world.
But isn't it more, Clay?
Isn't it more this?
Isn't it more this?
Isn't it more that Elon Musk has got to where he is, which is the most successful businessman in the history of planet Earth, arguably, building a number of amazing companies, but always getting his own way, right?
By common consent of people who work with him.
That's totally it.
A ruthless operator came into Twitter, fired half the staff immediately, straight out the door, and so on.
He's a ruthless operator.
He's used to doing things his way and he's used to getting his way.
And I think what he found in Donald Trump is somebody who's also pretty ruthless when he wants to be and also absolutely used to getting his own way.
And especially now he's president of the United States.
And so there were certain big decisions which Trump decided to take, which Elon didn't want to do or didn't like.
But actually, he found out that he's not as powerful as the president of the United States.
And I think the reason that he may be deleting some of the more inflammatory tweets now and so on is he's probably calmed down a bit.
And he's looked at the big picture and thought, I can't win a war with a very popular, with at least half of the country, president of the United States, who's a bombastic character like Trump, who will come for me if I go for him.
I need to calm things down.
That's my reading of it.
I think that's a very good reading.
I think what it ultimately goes to is who's the decision maker.
Elon is the decision maker at all of his companies, and that's what makes him good.
He's not the ultimate decision maker in terms of the political process.
And I think that's very frustrating for him.
And by the way, even Trump himself is in some ways circumscribed and constrained by the position of president of the United States in terms of what he can do.
And by the way, on the Epstein file stuff, let me just lay this out and ask this question because I think it's ultimately answers itself.
Do you think that the Democrats who tried to put Trump in prison for the rest of his life, who tried to bankrupt him, who went through Melania's underwear drawer to try to find incriminating information for Trump, if there was anything criminal at all in the Epstein files that could have remotely been used against Trump, do you think they wouldn't have used it?
I mean, that to me is an open and shutting up.
I agree.
I think there's nothing there.
I think Roger is right.
Hang on, Crystal, Crystal, hang on, hang on, Crystal.
I happen to agree with Clay, but I want to come to Brian.
He's been waiting patiently.
To be very clear.
Hang on a second, Roger.
Roger.
To be very clear, Donald Trump cut off Jeffrey Epstein prior to his being exposed and charged with sex crimes in Florida.
Phil and Hillary Clinton continue to socialize with him and continue to take money from him.
That's a fact.
Roger, this is an important point.
The tax cuts in the Big Beautiful Bill are across the board.
You can keep telling that lie about tax cuts for the rich.
Okay, let me bring in Brian.
Over and over again, it won't make it sound.
Let me bring in Brian.
Brian, there seems to me there's also a...
Brian, hang on a sec.
There's a big picture here.
Elon claimed he won Trump the election.
I think Trump won the election, as Roger said, but he certainly Elon Musk played a massive helping hand in doing that.
Because for somebody who owns a massive platform like X, who has 200 million followers, and who for the last few months of that election cycle was just relentlessly pumping pro-Trump stuff, that is obviously going to be significantly helpful.
We know that young men in particular got Trump over the line.
Elon Musk was telling America's young men, vote for this guy on an hourly basis.
So I don't think we should negate that.
And the reason I say that is that he's been threatening Elon to turn his turrets against the Republicans, against Trump, maybe even in the midterms, maybe launching his own party.
Now, it would be fascinating if Elon Musk, contrary to what I think, which is, I think he may be now he's calmed down, he doesn't want to have this fight, but if he decided to go all in on a new party and he had a platform that he owns with 200 million people who follow his every word, I mean, this could be quite a threat to Trump.
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Yeah, Pierce, so I agree with you.
A couple of quick points.
First on Elon.
I agree with Elon.
He donated almost a half a billion dollars to Donald Trump's campaign.
So I agree with Elon.
If not for Elon Musk, Trump probably doesn't win.
He was a huge part of the win.
And to Clay Travis, the idea that somehow Elon Musk just woke up in the morning one day and said, I care so much about this government spending is a joke.
He did this for himself.
The same reason why Donald Trump ran for office.
They're in it for themselves and their investors and to enrich themselves further.
Going to what Roger Stone just said, Ann Clay, about the fact that Donald Trump can't be in these Epstein files.
First of all, let's look at his history.
He's a liable sexual abuser.
He's had 25 women accuse him of rape or sexual assault, including his ex-wife, in court documents.
He bragged on the Howard Stern show about going into teenage girls' pageant locker rooms, watching them undress in a sexual manner.
And we hear Roger and Clay today saying, oh, there's no way that he could be in those Epstein files.
And Roger, you're wrong, okay?
In the Maxwell trial, we learned that Trump was on the flight log, Epstein flight log, at least six times.
And Jeffrey Epstein said at one time that Donald Trump was his best friend, okay?
And that Epstein had dirt on Trump.
I interviewed him.
Who are the co-conspirators in the Maxwell trial?
Who are those co-conspirators that we haven't identified?
She's charged with conspiracy.
Who are the co-conspirators?
Ask the U.S. Attorney's Project.
But Brian, I would ask you, I would say, Brian, this.
I thought that Clay made a very good point.
The Democrats literally threw everything but the kitchen sink.
And that was because they couldn't wrestle the sink off its bolts.
Otherwise, they would have thrown that as well.
And the point being, the point being, here's the point.
They had access to the Epstein files.
If there was anything in there whatsoever that was even a tiny bit damaging to Trump, they'd have leaked it, wouldn't they?
Why wouldn't they?
Well, I mean, you could make the same argument with Republicans going after Joe Biden, calling them the Biden crime family.
For years, we've been hearing the Biden crime family.
There have been all these investigations.
We heard about Hillary Clinton and eight investigations into Benghazi.
Republicans seem to find nothing.
So I think the right is doing that more than the left.
Listen, my question is very simple, guys.
Why have the Epstein files not been released?
Hold on a second, Clay.
Hold on.
Clay, hang on.
Give me 10 seconds here.
Pam Bondi said that she was going to release the files.
They said it was going to be released.
And then these right-wing imbeciles with their binders in Washington, D.C. looked like clowns.
So my question to Clay Travis and Roger Stone is, why had they not released the files then?
It doesn't threaten national security.
I'm telling you, Trump is all over those files.
Just as Alexander Acosta, the U.S. attorney in Florida, covers the pressure.
I think they're going to have to release the files.
Don't all talk over each other.
But I do want to say this.
I do think they're going to have to release the files.
And the reason will be Elon Musk.
Elon Musk has said publicly to 200 million people, time to drop the really big bomb.
Trump is in the Epstein files.
That's the real reason they've not been made public.
So long as they're not made public, that is now going to be what most people think, that there's something on Trump in there.
I don't know how to think about it.
I happen to agree with Clay that if there was, it would have been leaked, but it doesn't change the fact that because of Elon Musk's post, everyone's going to assume there's something on Trump in there that's prohibiting them being released.
Piers, let me also point out in terms of leaks, because I think this is important.
They leaked Donald Trump's entire tax returns to the New York Times and they published it in itemized details.
They were definitely released because they thought it was going to be politically beneficial.
They would have released it.
I agree.
I think this is my theory on Epstein.
So if you want the answer, I think Epstein has been working for decades as an intelligence asset, probably of multiple different countries.
This is my theory.
And in order to release all of this information, everybody looks at it.
They say, oh my God, like he was doing work for us.
He was doing work for Israel.
I think that's what's going on.
I think that's why it's complicated.
Leaks and Political Gain 00:05:58
And everybody who looks at it is just like, this is such a mountain of a mess.
Let me know.
Hang on.
Hang on.
Hang on, Crystal.
Crystal, I'll come back to you.
I'll come back to you.
But we're just going to take a short break.
I'll come back to the panel in a moment.
I'm going to be joined now by Errol Musk, who is Elon Musk's father.
Errol, welcome to Uncensored.
Thank you.
Thank you.
First time you've been on the show.
It's great to have you.
So let me ask you, I want to play you a clip from a guest I had last week, Scott Galloway, who suddenly decided to unload on your son.
And it went viral.
Let's listen to this.
I think this is an individual who has literally come off the tracks, who is rapidly addicted to drugs and is using his immense power to get people elected.
And that too many of us excuse what is abhorrent behavior.
I think his legacy is not going to be an EV or putting rockets into space.
I think it's going to be unnecessary death, disease, and disability of the world's most vulnerable.
That is not what it means to be an innovator.
It's not what it means to be an American.
It's not what it means to be a man.
Errol, what's your response to that?
Well, it's utter nonsense, you know, absolute rubbish.
So, you know, this is what you've, I've been listening to your program, listening to the four people.
What you have forgotten to do is look at the bigger picture.
And the bigger picture is that this time last year, when I was in the United States several times, the people that I was talking to were worrying about what was going to happen to them and where they are going to go.
They were so despondent with the Biden administration taking America down the road of ruin and ruination that people were talking about where will we go?
We have nowhere to go from the United States because they saw ruination in front of them.
And then Elon came on the scene and he said, if we do not elect Donald Trump, civilization is finished in America.
And that is what you have to remember.
And so what he did was he financed as much as he could Donald Trump to be able to win this election.
And today I can tell you that I have been back to the United States for the whole of April.
And all I see from one end from California to Texas is smiling people who have got their confidence back.
They feel confident in the future.
They do not feel the fear anymore that they felt under the Biden administration.
Everything is back on track.
Errol, if you don't mind me just let me respond to that.
You mentioned well, hang on on that one point.
I mean, you mentioned California.
Everyone's smiling.
California is ablaze with rioting right now because people in Los Angeles, where I have a home, they are rebelling against the ICE moves against the mass deportations.
They're rebelling against that and there are open riots.
Well, I can tell you that I was in California, Northern California.
It's the first world on steroids.
So what you see in lower LA is something that I believe has been financed by some Soros organization to try and cause trouble.
It's a small thing.
It's not something to be concerned about.
The majority of the people, I would like to say 80% of the people, but in fact, 100% of the people that I saw and interviewed over a whole month in April are so happy that America is back on track.
Everyone is confident.
Everyone feels confident about the future.
And that confidence has spread right around the world.
Yeah, but again, Errol, again, with respect, your own son has just walked out of the White House.
Well, hang on, hang on.
I'm going to ask you a question.
He's walked out of the role he had.
He's had a big falling out with Donald Trump.
And never mind the personal attacks on each other.
We'll come to those.
But he's also done it on a point of, he believes, really substantive principle, which is that he was brought in to cut government spending.
And actually, this big, beautiful bill that Trump wants to put through will have the opposite effect and will add trillions to the national debt, which America can't afford.
So it may be that whilst people, look, lots of people I know are happy about Trump and happy with Elon, but they're not happy.
Now they think that Elon Musk, this brilliant business brain, genuinely believes America's heading for a catastrophic recession, which is what he said.
No, no, he doesn't say that.
Elon is simply standing up for the idea that the budget was going to be a reduction in costs.
And as Clay Travers, I think his name has pointed out very, very clearly, he's used to doing this kind of thing in the private sector.
The government sector is a give and take situation.
Elon is not a politician.
He's had to learn.
He has to learn, and I had to learn, and most people have to learn, that politics is a give and take.
Churchill had to learn that politics is a give and take.
No one wins in politics.
It's a deep pool.
It has no sides.
You just keep swimming until you sink.
And so what we have to keep in mind, they've had a spat.
They've been through terrible stress for five months.
It's not the end of the world.
They had a fight.
They'll make up soon.
They'll get together.
They'll talk again.
It's not that serious.
What is important is that we have Donald Trump as president.
And that is very important.
So that today, people in the country in which I live in can breathe a sigh of relief.
And I'm at the present time in Russia.
They are breathing still a sigh of relief that Donald Trump is the president and not someone else.
How often do you talk to Elon?
Family Dynamics and Spats 00:03:11
Well, we exchange emails and WhatsApps.
So obviously, it's not my part to interfere in their daily lives.
I've got two sons, by the way, not just Elon.
And so I keep my comments to short ideas that I have.
I suggested to him that they should let this swizzle out as soon as possible, this argument.
And he said to me, yes, they are doing that.
That's what they want to do.
So, you know, it's a spat.
Everyone has at some time in their lives had a spat.
And so let's not run away with this little spat and throwing barbs at each other.
That's just normal in a spat.
It's completely normal.
I mean, look, there are, listen, there are spats.
I've had a spat with your son over an interview, which he cancelled.
I've had a spat with Trump over an interview he did.
So I totally agree with you.
And especially when people get quite fired up and they're strong characters, big egos and so on.
There is, you know, there's a spat and then there's actually telling 200 million people that Donald Trump is in the Epstein files and that he should be impeached.
I mean, that's taking a spat to a rather high degree, Errol, isn't it?
Well, you know, I'm not really a holy roller or anything, but Jesus said, you know, let the innocent one be the one who throws the first stone.
So let the innocent one throw the first stone, please.
I think, listen, I completely get that point.
On the big question of Elon and drug taking, a lot of reports saying he takes a lot of ketamine, ecstasy, souls on Adderall and so on.
From your knowledge of him, what is the reality?
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No, no, no.
Totally false.
Totally, absolutely false.
Elon is someone who abhors medication of any kind.
Almost impossible for him to get an injection against anything when he was a kid.
He absolutely abhors any kind of medication.
And as a matter of fact, as the head of SpaceX, he's under regular checkups, like all the staff, that they are squeaky clean for the type of work they are doing.
Because in order to have the clearance that they have, they must, in fact, abide by such regular checkups and so on.
No, that's absolute rubbish.
So you don't think he takes any drugs at all?
No, no.
I imagine he may take some pain tablet occasionally like I do.
No, no, there's no way that Elon takes anything.
Police Response to Protests 00:15:44
No way.
No way.
Well, Errol, look, it's great to have you on Uncensored.
If you're WhatsApping your son later, tell him I'd love to interview him.
Thank you.
Roger Stone, interesting interview there with Elon Musk's dad.
He thinks they're going to get it back.
I would imagine that it's not in either Trump or Elon Musk's interest longer term, particularly with the midterms coming up in 18 months or whatever it is.
It's not in either of their interests really to have an ongoing feud, is it?
No, I don't think it is.
And I do think there'll be a rapprochement.
They're already saying conciliatory things.
Look, I think they're on, at the end of the day, they're on the same side.
So I think that would be put back together.
Launching a new political party is not nearly as simple as people think it is.
The Republicans and Democrats work together to write the laws regarding ballot access, and you need to have a candidate to pitch it around.
Particularly hard to do in an off-year election.
It would probably only result in the election of the Democrats, which is not what I think Elon wants.
So I'm not sure that he's going to proceed with that idea.
Okay, I want to shift gears and talk about the LA riots.
Clay Travis, dramatic escalation here from what started off as apparent protests in downtown LA and South Central against the activities of the ICE agents there.
They clearly been seizing a lot of people and moving to deport them.
A lot of people apparently protesting about that, but it seemed to then escalate very quickly into a more general anti-Trump protest.
And Trump has then gone DEF CON one in response by ordering in the National Guard, which is pretty, I mean, it's not completely unprecedented, but it's bordering on unprecedented for a president to do that in this manner.
What do you make of the story?
Well, I believe the last that I saw yesterday evening was that the L.A. police chief said that things were rapidly spiraling out of control.
And I think he wants all the help that he can get.
We've seen the videos of L.A. police cars having Molotov cocktails thrown at them, the burning Waymo vehicles, I think five of them that were attacked and graffitied and burned.
And I think that Trump in 1.0, the first term that he served, saw what happened in the wake of the George Floyd riots when Tim Walz, the governor of Minnesota, was in charge and was slow on the response.
And the violence spread all over the country.
And I think what the Trump 2.0 team is saying is we're not going to allow the summer of 2025 to turn into the summer of 2020.
We're going to do everything we can to return law and order to the country.
And that's a positive.
And I will say, and it hasn't gotten very much attention, the murder rate in America is collapsing all over the country as we seem to have law and order returning to our streets.
I was just looking at the numbers right before I came on.
Pretty staggering.
Every big city in America were headed potentially for some record lows.
So I think we got to put the good guys back in control.
That's the police.
And I think we need as many of them in our streets as necessary to bring law and order.
And so I applaud what the administration is doing.
And I think sounds like the L.A. police chief would like to have more resources as opposed to less to tamp this down as well.
All right, Brian, you're shaking your head.
And I know I want to read you what you put.
You said this before.
You said it was peaceful, quotes, until your rapist leader called in the National Guard.
You MAGA fucks continue to defend those who beat cops on January 6th.
So sit this one out, you inbred MAGA fool.
This was responding to someone who was criticizing the protesters.
I mean, in the cold light of day, do you think that's the kind of language you're happy to see posted in your name, Brian?
Well, here's what I will say to that.
Let me start with Clay Travis.
Yesterday, Clay Travis on social media said that if you're blocking cars and you're in the street protesting, you deserve years in jail.
Clay Travis is the same guy who defended Donald Trump's pardons of those who beat police officers on January 6th.
So you have your own credibility.
I'm not done yet.
Clay, Clay, I didn't interrupt you.
Many of them got years.
They didn't interrupt you.
Don't interrupt me.
Okay.
Their sentences were not over yet, and Donald Trump pardoned them.
By the way, Donald Trump called those people hostages and patriots.
Would you call those people hostages and patriots in L.A.?
I'm consistent.
I want everybody to be held to the highest extent of the law.
But Clay, you have zero credibility on this issue.
The guy who used to be a person is the same guy who's a lot of people.
Do you agree when he did this hate to be arrested and put in prison for years, just like January 6th then?
So are you agreeing with me now?
So you're, so you're, no, I'm not.
You're comparing somebody who beats police officers, giving some of them traumatic brain injury.
They got people that are industry.
They got years in prison.
And they're in the middle of the day.
I don't think we can allow them to.
Are they hostages?
I don't think we can allow anybody to block streets anywhere in America.
I think if you really take it serious, the way you take things seriously is by putting serious punishments on people.
And so to me, that's a solution.
Whether you're a Democrat, Republican, or an Independent, you should be treated fairly under the law.
That didn't happen with January 6th, where people who were misdemeanors were elevated to felonies while everybody else was having their felonies lowered to misdemeanors who were in the BLM process.
Let me jump in here.
Left and right all over the city.
Okay, so Clay, let me jump in here.
First of all, it's not a misdemeanor when you beat police officers with their own batons.
That's number one.
Donald Trump called them hostages and patriots.
Number two, you are the guy that has coddled those, and people on the far right have called a tourist visit on January 6th.
If you block cars on the road, I don't think that gives you years in prison.
Many people are going to be able to do it.
But you're the guy who's okay with pardoning.
Way in excess.
We have the DLM protest.
We should be treated the same.
Clay, we have the governor of California that has said we don't need extra help.
You've had the mayor of L.A. that said, we don't need extra help.
You've never had the police chief on the record saying that they wanted that.
Here's the problem with the Marines coming in there, okay?
They are not trained to deal with criminal activity there.
They're dealt with training on how to deal with the enemy.
The local law enforcement have said, we don't want the extra help.
There's a reason why this war happened.
They're always solid in the 1960s.
Then you are.
You should be dealt with by Marines and everybody else.
And by the way, Gavin Newsom is a disaster on every front in California.
The fact that you would say Gavin Newsom says I don't need help is not the guy that I'm citing for returning law and order.
So you don't have confidence in the public.
But the guy who called on police officers.
Because what you're saying is that the local law enforcement is unable to handle some pretty basic protests that, yes, now have been incited to, I'm not saying they're nonviolent or trying to downplay it, but let's be real.
Pretty significant protest when police cars are on fire.
Last time asking for help.
I think we need it.
We have not enough police officers in L.A. if you look at it per capita.
The National Guard was federalized was in 1992, okay, with the consent and request of the governor of California to deal with the LA riots, to put this into scale and scope.
The LA riots resulted in 63 people being killed, in over 2,000 people being arrested.
You had a billion dollars of damage that was done.
Crystal, do you think we handle it?
But hold on, hold on.
Do you have to do that?
With the BLM protest well, because if you don't, the Trump team is trying to learn from that and stop it from the USA.
This is not at all equivalent.
But let me make a good point.
There's a good point to make it.
It's a disaster.
Because Trump 1.0, he wanted to shoot protesters in the legs.
And you had Esper come in and say, we are not doing that.
This time, there are no guardrails on this authoritarian fascist menace.
And that's the big picture here that we need to look at.
Trump was going to use any pretext he could grab for an authoritarian.
To return law and order to our second biggest city?
You don't need the military to turn the military on U.S. citizens, calling in the Marines to deal with protests.
That's why you have law enforcement.
No, Roger, it is a law enforcement.
We're talking about six officers.
Let me bring you back to Marachov project yesterday.
Roger, I want to play with you.
Don't all talk.
Don't all talk at once.
Roger, I want to play you a clip.
This is from Gavin Newsom talking about the riots.
I want to get your reaction to that.
Then I'm going to bring in another guest briefly.
Listen to this.
Donald Trump is reckless.
He's immoral.
He's taken the illegal and unconstitutional act of federalizing the National Guard, and he's putting lives at risk.
Roger, your reaction to that.
First of all, it's not unconstitutional.
It's well within the president's authority.
We saw what happened in 2020 when we relied on the governors.
$2 billion of damage in public and private property, as many as 19 people killed, 24 people killed, I believe in Chicago, over thousands of both protesters and officers injured.
That's what happens when the governors did nothing.
That statement was more about Gavin Newsom's presidential aspirations than it was the actual facts.
Okay.
Here's something important.
Just one thing to know.
Very quickly.
On day one, Trump signed an executive order calling for it to be analyzed whether he should invoke the Insurrection Act.
On day one, before anything had happened, he's been looking for a pretext to use the military to crush dissent.
That's what this is.
We all need to keep our eye on the ball of what is being due here for this fascist authoritarian leader.
Okay, let's bring in another guest who's criticized President Trump's decision.
And the communist tactics, which are not peaceful and not protests.
Fine, arrest them.
Okay.
There's copies of the family.
Neither of you is actually my other guest.
So if you could just hold your fire, I'm going to bring in another guest who's criticized President Trump's decision to send a Marshall Guard, Representative Eric Swalwell, the Democratic Congressman for California's 14th District.
Thank you very much for David joining me.
Nice to meet you.
I appreciate it.
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I've got a home in LA, so I've been watching this.
My first thought I have to say is this is the last thing LA needs after the appalling fires earlier this year.
But at the center of it seems to be a sort of visceral clash between people who believe that ICE is overstepping its mark and they're reacting violently to what they see as an undemocratic process unfurling and others who think this is long overdue.
There are millions of people illegally living in the United States who shouldn't be there, many of whom have committed crimes.
And of course, they should be deported.
And it's this clash that is behind what we're now seeing erupting around LA.
Is it as simple as that, do you think, in terms of a debate?
Or are there other things fueling it as well?
No, Pierce, I see it as Donald Trump is a chaos agent.
We were promised, and he was right, to say that he was going to deport violent criminals who were here undocumented.
I support that.
Most Americans support that.
He has deported a four-year-old American citizen battling cancer.
Nobody asked for that.
But what I want to say as it relates to the violence at these riots is that if your actions look like what Donald Trump asked his goons to do on January 6th at the Capitol, you're doing it wrong.
There is no place for violence.
And if you have shown up to commit violence, you should go the fuck home.
In fact, you should go to jail.
There is no room for this.
We don't need it.
The peaceful protesters there have a case to be made, a public case that should be heard.
And I unequivocally condemn the violence.
I hope the people in the crowd do the same.
Los Angeles doesn't need this.
And the people who have been winning in the court of public opinion against Donald Trump, they don't need this.
I think that's very, very well said.
Is there anything wrong in principle?
I mean, people are losing their minds over it, but it's been done before.
It's not completely unheard of for the federal government to use the National Guard.
They haven't done it for a while, which is why it's surprising to people.
But is there anything like unconstitutional about this?
Well, Pierce, it wasn't requested by the mayor or the governor.
And in fact, they have been pretty loudly saying, we don't want violence in Los Angeles.
And so for Donald Trump to bring the National Guard in to me, it just reflects that he's trying to draw the foul.
He's not looking or acting like a solution-oriented president.
He wants to draw the foul and escalate the situation.
And that's why I am pulling on.
I mean, look, to be fair to Trump, if for Donald Trump, you're looking at these scenes and thinking, I do not want this escalating all over California or to other cities in America.
I'm going to clamp down hard and now and stop this.
I don't believe that the governor has got a grip of this.
And some of the scenes, I've got to say overnight were appalling in LA.
This was not a minor thing.
There were endless cars being torched.
People trying to, you know, it seemed to me, attempt to kill police officers in cars from bridges and so on.
This is not a good situation.
You know, why actually just devil's advocate, why shouldn't Trump send him a National Guard and stop it very quickly if he feels the governor's not doing it?
A leader collaborates with local officials.
Gavin Newsom, I think just last month was at the White House in the Oval Office with Donald Trump.
They have a working relationship and I trust that those two could have sorted this out.
But again, to me, Donald Trump just wants more chaos.
And that's why I hope the peaceful protesters do not give him that.
I hope they flood the zone with American flags today to show that this is about the size of the movement and the outrage at deporting four-year-old kids.
Pierce, over the weekend, Donald Trump's ICE agents wrongfully detained a U.S. Marshal, like an American citizen U.S. Marshal.
So this is not what people are asking for.
And it's also a distraction, I believe, from Donald Trump's tariffs, which are costing us more at Home Depot and Walmart.
It's a distraction from inflation that continues to go up.
And so we need to keep our eyes on the ball as far as the public case that we're making against Donald Trump and make it clear there's no room for violence in this movement.
Honest Conversation on Rights 00:16:20
Elon Musk and his feud with Trump has obviously been dominating headlines at the same time.
Elon's been making a lot of veil threats against Trump.
Some he's deleted, some he hasn't.
He's talked whimsically about maybe sorting out a new party.
But say for argument's sake, he wanted to come back to the Democrats, where he originally was a supporter of the Democrats.
I mean, all the people that seem to hate Musk most in America right now used to love him.
Would you welcome him back with open arms, Elon Musk, if he decided to go back to where he was originally politically?
What I welcome right now, and I encourage others to welcome, is his honest criticism of Donald Trump.
We were right to oppose Doge cuts that fired cancer scientists or reduced air traffic controllers, but it's wrong if anybody wants to shut him down as he is honestly bringing to light some of the corruption he saw at the White House.
And in fact, there's probably no one in the world who lost more money in a single day than Elon Musk for what he said about Donald Trump.
And what I say to the Epstein allegation that he made is Donald Trump is the most litigious person who's ever walked this earth.
If Elon Musk tweeted at me and said that I was in the Epstein files, he would have a lawsuit on his desk within an hour.
The fact that Donald Trump, the most litigious person in the world, has not yet sued Elon Musk for defamation is very, very telling and very alarming and a signal to Democrats that we need to understand at the Department of Justice, what exactly has Donald Trump ordered them to conceal from the American people.
Finally, Eric Wall, the Democrats are going through a crisis of identity, which is kind of ironic given the obsession with identity politics the party's been following for years.
And it blew up again.
One of the big issues I think the Democrats have had is a clear position on this issue of trans athletes in women's sport.
And there was a big spat that erupted on X between Simone Biles, who took on Riley Gaines in a pretty disparaging manner, I have to say, after Riley Gaines, you know, was not impressed by the fact that a trans athlete had been part of a winning girls team, I think at softball.
And she said to be expected when the star player is a boy, because Marissa Rothenberg is a trans identifying male athlete who pitched all 21 innings in the victory.
Now, Simone Biles came very hard for Riley Gaines about this and told us she should be uplifting the trans community and so on.
This inevitably has fueled this raging debate.
You've been tipped to maybe make a presidential run one day.
You may have to deal with this as a leader of the United States.
Where do you sit with this?
I mean, is it sustainable that any Democrat continues to think that having biological males who are identifying as trans women can compete against biological females?
So I approach this first, Pierce, as a parent.
And what I tell people is that if other parents are asking honest questions about safety and fairness in their kids' sports, we should allow that conversation and dialogue to take place.
And we should let local sports organizations and high schools sort it out.
But if you're approaching this, as I think Simone Biles' concern was, if you're approaching this and you don't even accept that a trans person should exist, I don't really want you to be a part of the conversation.
And frankly, I think a lot of people who have hot takes on this issue are not parents, don't really understand sports.
I played college sports.
That's how I was able to go to college.
As a parent who has kids who play sports, this is an issue that doesn't really come up in many communities.
And so that's why I think we should allow honest questions to be asked.
But the civil rights issue here is that if you're saying that trans people should not exist, I think that's un-American.
I don't think it's about whether they should exist.
I think it's about they shouldn't exist in women's sport.
And that's an honest conversation for...
Well, the honest conversation seems to me very, very straightforward.
I mean, there's a reason we separate sexes in the Olympics, isn't there?
I mean, the moment you think that the sexes can be just interwoven, then you get gender-neutral Olympics.
And guess what?
Women stop winning any medals.
I mean, is that what you want?
Because an honest conversation seems to me, if you don't mind me saying, I'll say it's respectfully, but a pretty weasel cop-out.
And this has been the problem the Democrats have had.
They were all in the tank for this.
Then they realized, actually, Americans didn't like it because they thought it was unfair.
And now it's like we've got to have an honest conversation.
What's the conversation?
I mean, in all honesty, I want trans people to have the rights to equality, safety, and the rest of it.
Exactly the same as me.
But I don't want them eroding women's rights.
There's no honest conversation to be had.
It's just like respect trans people's rights to lead their lives with the same rights as the rest of us, but don't erode women's rights in the process.
End of conversation, isn't it?
Well, frankly, Pierce, I just think of all the things that we're dealing with, like what I pay at the grocery store, whether I can afford to be a bad person.
No, but it's way more important than you think, Eric.
It's way more important than you think.
It's so low, Pierce.
It's not, though.
It's not.
I'm sorry, Eric.
This is where the Democrats are getting it so wrong.
If you want to know why you're so unfortunately, if you want to know why you're so unpopular as a party, You want to know why it's so unpopular?
You keep saying nobody cares about this when it's obvious they do.
No, I think it's okay for people to care.
I'm a parent who have kids in sports.
I think we should not alienate people who ask honest questions.
But I just think during my day, when I have to prioritize, like, what do I work on?
What do people care about?
No one's coming to me to this.
It's just Republicans found like the last group in the world that they hadn't bullied, gay marriage was allowed.
They lost on that.
And I think they are.
I'm not a Republican.
But Pierce, I think they're exaggerating it.
They are crowding out the ability to have an honest conversation.
I'm a Democrat who says, don't alienate parents who want to have an honest conversation.
But this is not the most important.
It's not even close to the most important conversation we should have about the issues we face.
I could not disagree with you more.
Honestly, respectfully, I think you're completely wrong.
Slightly deluded about whether Americans care about this issue.
But do you know a trans?
Do you know an athlete who has lost a competition because of a trans athlete?
Riley Gaines.
That's the whole point of her campaign.
Somebody you know, like in your life.
Riley Gaines lost to a six foot three inch by London.
Somebody that you know in your community.
The United Nations.
The United Nations.
There's a lot of people who are paying more for.
You asked me a question.
Let me answer it.
The United Nations had a report recently.
It said 900 women had been deprived of medals in competitive sport around the world by trans athletes beating women in sport.
Are you happy with that?
900 women in a planet of 8 billion people?
Like, that doesn't seem like the most important thing we should be working on.
So if it was 900 women who've been beaten by doping cheats who've taken performance-enhancing drugs, would you say it's a trivial issue?
Because it's not millions of them.
Therefore, we shouldn't tackle the problem.
We should have conversations about it.
Let locals sort it out.
But, Pierce, I want you to pay less for your groceries.
I want your kids to be able to buy a home when they get out of college.
I want us to be strong in the world.
That's the shit that I work on.
I am not focused on 900 people in a planet of 8 billion as the most important thing I should work on.
Okay.
We will disagree about that, Mr. Swalwall, but it's good to have you on our sensor.
Thank you very much.
Hey, nice to be with you, Pierce.
Yeah, good to take care.
Let's bring about the panel.
Clay, I've got to say, I'm not impressed by, I mean, I like what he said about the riots and the need to not use violence because, of course, you're then losing the message.
I think he was completely right about that.
But on this issue, the Riley Gaines-Simone Biles thing, I was astonished by Simone Biles, the way she talked to Riley Gaines, and also the way she then basically body shamed her, having made a career in the last few years of standing up against body shaming.
I thought the whole thing was a real misstep by Simone Biles.
But to hear someone like Eric Swalwall, who clearly is positioning himself potentially one day to maybe lead the Democrats, again, saying, hey, nobody cares about this, and we need an honest conversation.
But about what?
I mean, the conversation has been had.
Yeah, it's an honest conversation that men should not be playing in women's sports.
And I think that's why Representative Swalwell's party and himself, they're lying to the American public.
If it's truly not an issue, I love your example.
They had hearings on steroids on Capitol Hill because they wanted to make sure that baseball was fair.
Anytime, look, I coach Little League Sports.
I am a parent.
I've got three boys.
We had when I was eight, nine-year-olds that I was coaching, we had some girls on the team with the boys because pre-puberty, it's not an issue.
Guess what?
As soon as puberty happens, no women would win any sports.
If we had a unisex Olympics, not one woman would win a medal.
That's why the sexes are separated.
So when you lie to me and say, well, we need to have a conversation, this is not complicated.
If I decided that I was trans age, Piers, and I wanted to play little league baseball with 10-year-olds, I would be the greatest 10-year-old little league baseball player probably in the world, humbly, right now.
Every parent would say this is unacceptable because of the purpose of competition.
The fact that Democrats have allied themselves, allowed themselves to be on this side.
When the majority of Democrat voters, 67% New York Times, 94% of Republicans, 79% overall, when you're on the wrong side of an 80-20 issue, they don't trust you on any other issue, grocery prices that he kept trying to come back to, whatever else.
They just don't buy in.
And I have to do this, Pierce.
Sorry to say it.
I love your show.
My show starts on the show.
I know you got to go.
So I'm going to bail.
Really appreciate it.
And Riley's on with me in a half hour.
I appreciate it.
Keep killing it.
Sorry to bail.
Take care, Clay.
I really appreciate it.
I know you had a hard heart.
Thank you very much indeed.
Let's bring in the other panelists here.
I mean, come on, Crystal.
Can we at least agree on this, that this is preposterous, that Democrat politicians are still trying to say we've got to have an honest conversation when what they really want to do?
What they really want to do is shut down any honest conversation because the only obvious conclusion that's wrong.
I'm not here to carry water for any particular Democrat, but think about the topics we're covering today, okay?
You have the president coming close to declaring an insurrection and calling in the National Guard on American citizens.
You have an oligarch who bought the last election accusing the president of being a pedophile.
You have the Trump administration having completely upended the economic order with the tariff regime.
And I'm supposed to care about what happened on a Minnesota high school sports team.
You are.
How is this going to be a problem?
Why is this a national issue?
You don't say this.
You may not know.
Sorry, hang on.
You may not know this, Ramoni.
I am a former person.
You should care.
You should care about women's rights.
Because here's what...
No, let me explain to you, Crystal.
Don't talk over me.
Let me explain to you why you should care.
Because only last week we had the story of Iman Khalif, who is an Algerian boxer who competed in the Paris Olympics, won the gold medal, had one of the opponents who was an Italian female boxer quit after 45 seconds because she'd never been hit that hard in her life.
A lot of us, me included, said, pointed out that Iman Khalif had been banned from the world championships for reportedly testing positive for male chromosomes, but was not banned from the Olympics and was then beating up women in a boxing ring and winning the gold medal in a women's competition.
Now, last week, we discovered from the leap report that absolutely Iman Khalif has male chromosomes.
For all intents and purposes, Iman Khalif is a man, and a man should not be beating up women in a boxing ring in the Olympics.
So when you take the view, when you take the view, none of it makes it a lot better.
Here's the thing.
But Piers, here's what you are letting them off the hook for completely.
We were told this is just about protecting kids and we just care.
People could be whoever they are and we're not against trans people.
This is just about protecting kids.
Bull shit.
As soon as President Trump got into power and all of these right-wing governors across the country, what do they do?
They attack all trans people.
So forgive me if I'm not going to join on the parade.
They didn't attack all trans people.
They said trans people shouldn't be in women's sports.
They're not going to be able to be in there and trying to live.
No, they're trying to ban them from the military.
They're trying to take away their rights.
They're trying to take away their civil rights.
So to bury your head.
They're actually not.
They're trying to protect.
They pretend like it's just about this niche issue.
They're trying to protect.
It's not a niche issue.
And as I've just explained to you, women are now losing out on Olympic gold medals at the altar of this bullshit.
Let me bring Brian to the next step.
How many high schools have we high athletes are there in the country?
We've been Brian, Brian.
Brian, until the democracy.
Hang on, Crystal, stop talking.
One in the whole state.
Crystal, stop talking.
Brian, let me bring you in here.
Until the Democrats sort out this issue, I promise you it's going to be a stick to beat the Democrats with.
And whoever leads the party, if they don't have a clear position on this, they're going to discover, exactly as Biden and Harris discovered, that actually it comes back and haunts them.
It is a straightforward issue.
I'm a liberal guy at heart, right?
I'm not a right-winger.
I'm not a Republican.
I'm not a Conservative here in the UK.
But even I can see this is ridiculous, this whole debate.
And to say nobody cares nonsense.
Yeah.
So Pierce, I think you and I agree on a lot of social issues.
We certainly agree on this one.
I think it's pretty clear and cut to me.
If you're born a man transition to a woman, you should not be on the playing field with other women.
However, I will say this, MAGA Republicans like to make the argument, we care so much about kids and women's rights, yet geography now has a bearing over a woman's body.
And they're telling women what to do with their bodies.
Last I checked, trans people haven't killed anybody on the playing field.
They don't want to talk about gun control.
They don't want to talk about real women's rights and more important issues.
I agree.
You're born a man transition to a woman.
You should not be on the playing field.
By the way, most Democrats agree with us on this issue as well.
Yeah.
That's why Eric's force wrong.
Okay, final word to you, Roger.
Boy, there's a lot of Trump derangement syndrome here.
Let's take apart by part.
There's no evidence whatsoever that Donald Trump is in.
A lot of Trump fellatios engage in violence, Roger.
In fact, no, let me talk this time.
No, in fact, the two Twitter posts in which he said that disappeared.
Secondarily, the issue here is men playing in women's sports.
There is no constituency for that, no place in the country.
And as a result of the publication of the- What's the constituency for pardoning Jesus' confidence in the world?
The increases in our revenue tariffs are up sharply.
The cost of gasoline is down.
The cost of eggs is down.
Actually, I think Trump's economic plans are working incredibly well.
Okay, on that positive note.
So can I just say something real quick to Roger?
Very quick.
Can I just say something quick to Roger?
So, Roger, Roger, you just said we have Trump derangement syndrome.
You're the guy that's a seven-count convicted felon who Donald Trump pardoned.
Okay, so if there's anybody that wears the Donald Trump knee pads 24-7, it's you.
You have TFS Trump fallatios and the judge doesn't allow you to, when the judge doesn't allow you to make any defense, and when the judge withholds exculpatory evidence from your trial, he says you're a silent show trial, you go to trial in D.C.
Okay, on that list, you're the one with the derangement syndrome.
All right, on that lesson.
You're the one with the derangement syndrome.
On that less positive note, anytime.
On that less positive note, I'm now going to call you.
Let's share what you think about my appearance, Roger.
Thank you all very much indeed.
I appreciate it.
Transgender Sports Debate 00:10:03
Well, joining me now is Riley Gaines, host of the GainsteGirlspodcast.net, who was sensationally called out by Simone Biles over the weekend.
Riley, great to see you.
I know you're in your car, but I appreciate you taking time to do this for Uncensored.
I had to talk to you today because I couldn't believe what I was reading, honestly, on X. Just for the context, this all started when you posted a comment under a photograph of Champlin Park softball state champion saying to be expected when your star player is a boy.
Now, the reason you did that, the comment was referring to the team's junior pitcher, Marissa Rothenberg, a trans-identifying male athlete who pitched all 21 innings in the victory.
And this follows a campaign you've waged for a long time, that there is simply an unfair advantage for trans athletes in women's sport, one that you know I completely agree with.
Now, incredibly, Simone Biles, one of the great American athletes of all time in gymnastics, replied, Riley Gaines, you're truly sick.
All of us campaigning because you lost a race, straight up sore loser.
You should be uplifting the trans community, perhaps finding a way to make sports inclusive or creating a new avenue where trans feel safe in sports, maybe a transgender category in all sports, but instead you bully them.
One thing's for sure is no one in sports is safe with you around.
First of all, your reaction when this gymnastic legend decided to just go full bore on you like that?
Well, for a little context, this was Friday evening.
Okay.
Like typically on the weekends, especially if I'm home, I spend so much of my time on the road.
I'll put my phone away.
I spend time with my husband, with my animals.
I've got dogs and horses, all the things.
So was just about ready to put my phone up for the weekend.
And I get this notification on X. Something says, you know, Simone Biles tagged you in a post.
I was in disbelief over this because I am someone who has admired and respected Simone Biles for so long, peers.
I mean, we watched her compete, what, in 2024 and 2028 and 2016.
So, I mean, consider me an eight-year fan of Simone Biles, all the while knowing she's, of course, very liberal.
That didn't matter to me.
I still think she's the goat of all time and her sport.
So I got this.
I got this notification.
I click on it and I read it and I read it again and I clicked the profile to make sure this wasn't a fake account, that this was the real Simone Biles calling me a truly sick, disgusting bully.
Like even still, I'm in disbelief over this comment, not even because of the personal attacks.
And we can talk about what she then went on to post next, basically body shaming me, saying that, you know, bully someone my own size, which would ironically be a man, which again is hilarious for two reasons.
Number one, she's acknowledging that men and women are physically, biologically, categorically different.
But also number two, here's I'm five foot five.
Like I'm 130 pounds.
I would describe myself as very, very standard.
Yes, I have muscles, as most athletes do, but I would imagine that that's my thing.
I would have imagined that if anyone would understand that, it would be Simone Biles, again, a woman who has, I mean, historically advocated for body positivity.
She's been a part of several campaigns.
That is not at all what we saw.
So I was in disbelief over this.
Even still, I can't make sense of why she did this, why in the year 2025, this is the stance that she would take.
I can't imagine she actually believes it.
Being an elite level gymnast, right?
Like gymnastics, men and women's gymnastics, it's not even the same sport, essentially.
All right.
You don't have the rings.
You don't have pomo horse in the women's.
You don't have the beam in the men's.
It's a totally different sport.
So I can't imagine she believes this.
So then I think the question is, why?
Well, I thought what was interesting.
What was interesting to me was, aside from the ad hominem attack she made on you, and the body shaming was particularly offensive, given she hasn't positioned herself as a campaigner against body shaming women.
What I thought was interesting was buried away amid all the kind of attack and talking about uplifting the trans community, no desire to uplift the integrity of women's sport, I noticed.
But she said, perhaps find a way to make sports inclusive or create a new avenue where trans feel safe in sports.
Again, absurd in sense that she's not, doesn't seem to care about making women sport and women feel safe in their own sport, all about trans.
But she said, maybe a transgender category in all sports, which I thought was an interesting admission.
So around all this attack on you, there was Simone Biles, one of the great female American gymnasts ever and sports stars ever, conceding that we maybe need a transgender category in all sports.
Now, that's an admission that actually you are right, Riley Gaines.
So amid all the abuse, she concedes there should be a transgender category in all sports.
And I think that's an important thing that we should pick up on.
But I also think, just to throw it at you a bit, from her point of view, I've seen her responding with a few people.
It seemed to me what exercised her was that she feels that although clearly she thinks there may be merit to your argument. that actually you talk about trans people in a way that exposes them to mockery and so on.
Do you accept any of that criticism that maybe you could temper the language you use around trans people?
Or do you think that's unfair?
Piers, I use clear sex-based language.
It's not opinionated.
It's not hateful.
At least it's not meant to be hateful.
It is, it's clear.
It's what we've understood to be reality, at least in America, the past, I mean, nearly the 250 years we've been established as a country and certainly much longer than that.
Men are men.
Boys are boys.
Girls are girls.
Males are males.
Females are females.
Mothers are mothers.
This whole idea of now, again, 250 years since we've been established as a country to totally change the most basic of truths, right?
Like man and woman, it's the sheer essence of humanity, right?
If you cannot understand that, or if you cannot emphatically say that men cannot become women and vice versa, you have no credibility on any topic.
I will not believe a single word that comes out of your mouth on anything.
If you look at me and confidently say that men can become pregnant, like I'm sorry, I don't believe a single word you say on any single topic.
So no, I will not be attempting to tone down the words that I use.
I tried this truthfully at first.
I go back to three years ago.
I believe that was the kind thing to do.
I believe that was the respectful thing to do because that's what we were told, right?
You can oppose this, but you have to be respectful in doing it, in doing that.
And so I did.
I referred to Will Thomas, Leah Thomas, as a she, which I knew inherently was wrong.
Like it went against my gut instinct to do that.
And I will tell you when I changed my mind because it was this pivotal moment for me.
I was on the phone with a reporter, again, very early on.
This was probably two weeks after that national championships.
And the reporter was asking me specifically about the locker room.
And Piers, I used the words, the phrase, her penis.
And I was so appalled with myself.
I couldn't even believe that I said that, that something so unnatural, so unfactual came out of my mouth.
And it was at that point that I vowed I would never, never do that again, not because of, not because I was trying to be hateful towards towards Thomas.
Again, that's never the intention.
I feel like that's not how I approach these things.
I approach them very level-headed.
I'm not a provocateur.
I'm not an instigator.
I'm not an agitator.
I just was ashamed of myself for saying that.
And then I think of my grandma, Piers, right?
My grandma, she's almost 70 years old.
When she reads news articles and it uses the verbiage of trans woman, she doesn't even know what that means.
She's like, is Riley, is this a woman who's a man or a man who's a woman?
Like she's so confused by this.
People are desperate.
They're hungry for clear sex-based language.
So I won't be tailoring what I say.
And one more point to this.
In the tweet, you mentioned how Simone Biles says you should be creating this space for them.
Why is that my job?
Why do I have to do that?
Why is it the job of women to validate the feelings of men?
Why do we have to make them feel safe?
Why can't they advocate for that on their own?
Or why can't Simone, you use your platform to do that?
Why are you valiantly coming out now in the year 2025 to say this?
Where were you the past three years if you really believe this?
But again, I don't think she does believe this.
It's not my job to make a man feel safe.
It's never been my job.
They can advocate for that if they want.
That's the beauty of America.
You get to do that.
I get to call you stupid for it, but you get to do it.
That's the beauty of this great nation of which we live in.
So Simone Biles, by all means, continue to do that with your platform, but you do not get to tell me what I should be doing with my platform.
Good for you, Riley Gaines.
I appreciate you finding time to come on Censor.
Thank you very much.
Well, always for you, Piers, you have really been from the beginning one of the ones who have been outwardly supportive of people like me, J.K. Browing.
So I appreciate you so much.
Yeah, and the reason is that you have gone through so much abuse and now you're getting it from Simone Biles, who should know better.
And yet buried away, like I said, in the middle of all the abuse isn't the mission there should be a separate category for trans athletes, which is exactly what you've always said from the start of this.
They just shouldn't compete with women because it's unfair.
It's the same as doping.
It's exactly the same ideology.
It's that cheats who are using an unfair advantage, be it drugs or their bodies, should not be allowed to compete against women and erode women's rights.
It seems open and shut to me.
Riley, thank you.
You're the best.
Thanks, Piers.
Separate Category for Athletes 00:00:24
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