Uncensored - Piers Morgan - 20250528_youre-killing-children-daily-piers-morgan-blasts-i
Aired: 2025-05-28
Duration: 49:23


=== The Real Plan to Clean Out Gaza (14:57) ===

[00:00:00]  But you said there were 50,000 Hamas.
[00:00:02]  Others have put the total figure at around 25,000, which begs the question, if after 18, 19 months now, you have been waging this ferocious war against 25,000, 26,000 terrorists and you still haven't defeated them, your strategy is failing.
[00:00:18]  How many children have you killed?
[00:00:20]  Pierce, Israel is not killing children.
[00:00:22]  Israel is not killing children.
[00:00:23]  Hamas is using children.
[00:00:24]  Israel is killing children every single day.
[00:00:27]  And what you're trying to do is be very weasel with your words.
[00:00:30]  No, I'm not.
[00:00:30]  The truth is, the truth is, you are killing a lot of children.
[00:00:34]  You would argue you're not.
[00:00:36]  Hang on, let me finish.
[00:00:37]  Hamas is using them as women's shields.
[00:00:39]  Let me finish.
[00:00:40]  My question to you.
[00:00:41]  You are killing a lot of children on a daily basis.
[00:00:44]  That is indisputable.
[00:00:46]  My interesting question for you is, how come you know exactly how many Hamas terrorists you've killed, but you have no idea how many children you've killed?
[00:00:55]  At several key points in the war on Hamas, former Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Omer has denied that Israel would kill civilians deliberately and deny the charge of war crimes.
[00:01:04]  He now says this.
[00:01:07]  The statements made by Israeli cabinet ministers, the leading cabinet ministers, that say we should starve Gaza.
[00:01:14]  What is it if not a war crime?
[00:01:16]  I mean, how can a serious person representing the Israeli government can spell it out in such an explicit manner that we should starve Gaza, that there should be no supply of basic fundamental humanitarian needs to a couple of millions people living there.
[00:01:38]  They are terrorists that we need to fight.
[00:01:44]  But this is not a war against Hamas.
[00:01:47]  This looks more and more like a political war of the Israeli Prime Minister and the cabinet and the group of thugs which are now representing the Israeli government inside Israel and across the world are committing actions which can't be interpreted in any other way.
[00:02:07]  Ome also said, and I quote, the government of Israel is currently waging a war without purpose, without goals or clear planning and with no chances of success.
[00:02:16]  Meanwhile, Ehu Barak, another former prime minister and former IDF chief of staff, says the war is now purely for Netanyahu self-preservation.
[00:02:23]  Yeh Golan, an opposition voice and a former Army Deputy Chief of Staff, said Israel is, quote, killing babies as a pastime, close quotes, and risked becoming a pariah state.
[00:02:33]  These aren't radical Islamists or raging anti-Semites, but patriotic Israelis who think their country is losing the plot.
[00:02:41]  Today, Israel announced that they've eliminated Hamas's chief in Gaza, Mohamed Simwa, the younger brother of Yahya Simwa, the mastermind behind the deadly attacks on October the 7th.
[00:02:51]  That was seen as a huge win by Israel as they looked to justify the continued fighting.
[00:02:55]  But how many innocent Palestinians are losing their lives as a consequence?
[00:03:00]  Overnight, we saw more shocking scenes in Gaza as thousands of Palestinians overran an aid site run by US and Israeli-backed group with the intention of taking control of food distribution away from the UN.
[00:03:11]  Many experts believe the swathes of Gaza face imminent famine caused by an 11-week Israeli blockade, which is only now beginning to ease.
[00:03:19]  How much longer can all this go on?
[00:03:21]  Well, I'm joined by Israeli ambassador to the UK, Zippy Hotaveli.
[00:03:25]  Ambassador, welcome back to Uncensored.
[00:03:27]  Good evening, Pierce.
[00:03:29]  Incredibly damning comments from two former prime ministers of Israel and a former deputy chief of staff of the Israeli army.
[00:03:39]  When you hear what they have to say, surely it gives you pause for thought, doesn't it?
[00:03:45]  Well, it's quite obvious for someone like you that understands politics that those people are coming from the opposition.
[00:03:53]  Their job, in their opinion, is to fight whatever the government is doing.
[00:03:56]  I think it's very anti-patriotic not to support Israel's war when we are fighting the most justified war in the world against a terror group that committed the worst atrocities at the 7th of October.
[00:04:08]  Just today, we remember 600 days that we still have 58 hostages in captivity.
[00:04:14]  And I'm afraid to say, nowadays in Israel, you can't find even one leader that will say he's willing to live with Hamas on its doorstep.
[00:04:25]  So if those people have any criticism, they should offer a plan how Hamas will be removed from the Gaza Strip from controlling the doorstep of Israel, not committing the 7th of October again.
[00:04:36]  I didn't get to hear that not from European leaders that are criticizing Israel and not from those opposition former leaders.
[00:04:45]  So I must say that in the end of the day, Israel has a serious threat on its security.
[00:04:51]  You will agree with that.
[00:04:52]  No one wants to see people being massacred in their homes like we've seen at the 7th of October.
[00:04:58]  And in order to do that, the aims of the war are still relevant.
[00:05:01]  We want to bring back our hostages and we want to make sure Hamas won control of the Gaza Strip.
[00:05:06]  Every leader in the world, in the Western world, agrees on those two aims.
[00:05:11]  Yeah, you and I have spoken regularly on a number of occasions throughout this war.
[00:05:17]  I've always said from the start, as you know, that Israel had an absolute right and indeed duty to its people to defend itself after those appalling attacks.
[00:05:26]  And my position about that hasn't changed.
[00:05:28]  But I also kept asking one question, which was, what is a proportionate response?
[00:05:33]  And I've got to tell you that in the last few weeks, I have found the Israeli government strategy in Gaza to be utterly disproportionate.
[00:05:41]  And I'll explain to you why.
[00:05:42]  When you launch a blockade for nearly three months to a population which already has seen much of their possessions, their land, their buildings, their homes decimated by bombardment after bombardment.
[00:05:56]  When you say that you're going to launch a blockade on aid and food to a population where 50% are under 18, you are pursuing, it seems to me, as Ehud Omet said, a policy of starvation towards, obviously, because of the nature of the population in Gaza, of a lot of children.
[00:06:16]  And that is a war crime.
[00:06:18]  I mean, what else do you call it?
[00:06:21]  I think when you look at the facts, and you should look at the facts, letting in 25,000 trucks with tons of aid, this is not a policy of starvation.
[00:06:31]  Now, let me tell you what was Israel's policy from the beginning of the war.
[00:06:34]  From the beginning of the war, we created a very clear distinction between the terrorists.
[00:06:38]  We're talking about 50,000 people that invaded themselves in population, as you know.
[00:06:44]  Just now, you just mentioned Mohamed Zinoar, he was found under a hospital, under the European hospital.
[00:06:50]  He was hiding there because he knows exactly how the world reacts when Israel attacks hospitals.
[00:06:55]  But those hospitals being abused and being used as a terror facilities.
[00:06:59]  This is why Israel is allowed to operate there.
[00:07:02]  Now, I'm going back to the policy of aid.
[00:07:04]  In the last few days, as you know, Israel is launching a new program, a new mechanism to deliver aid because unfortunately, and I'm saying that with a big pain, Hamas was looting the aid that all the world wanted to being let into Gaza.
[00:07:20]  Now, everyone is interested that the population won't be starving.
[00:07:24]  We don't want to see pictures of children that don't have something to eat.
[00:07:27]  We all share the same interest.
[00:07:29]  But at the same time, if Hamas is looting the aid, then we are empowering the war machine.
[00:07:34]  And according to the international law, no country in the world has obligation to feed the war machine of the enemy.
[00:07:41]  And this is what happened in the last few months.
[00:07:42]  This is why Israel had to change the mechanism.
[00:07:45]  This is why American companies are involved.
[00:07:47]  So we'll have a buffer.
[00:07:48]  We won't have to see Israeli soldiers combating Hamas while they're trying to loot the aid.
[00:07:54]  The whole procedure is much more effective.
[00:07:57]  And just in the last few days, we saw Hamas putting barriers for the population not to get, not to receive this aid.
[00:08:04]  This is the same Hamas that use his own people as human shields.
[00:08:08]  So we are talking about situation that's very difficult, very complicated.
[00:08:12]  Once Israel is fighting the Hamas terrorists, we still want aid to get in.
[00:08:16]  And the mechanism, I believe, that Israel is putting now forward is so much better than the one that in the end of the day is empowering Hamas.
[00:08:24]  The problem is that whilst you're saying all this and trying to justify it, you've got people like Smodrich coming out and making it absolutely crystal clear what the real plan is, which is to completely clean out Gaza of all the Palestinians and get them into, quotes, the third country.
[00:08:39]  That is a form of genocide.
[00:08:41]  It is the deliberate targeting of people based on ethnicity and displacing them from their homes and killing a lot of them in the process.
[00:08:48]  I don't know what else you would call it.
[00:08:50]  I've resisted using the word genocide about this, but when I watched what Mr. Smodrich was saying and studied the exact words that he said, it is very hard to reach any other conclusion than that he is waging a strategy of genocide and would like to cleanse, as he put it, the whole Gaza Strip of all the Palestinians.
[00:09:09]  So you can try and dress up that blockade, which is what it was for three months, where we saw the starving children you say you're concerned about, but you've got Smodrich there actually laying bare the real plan, which is to get all the Palestinians out of Gaza.
[00:09:25]  And that is a form of genocide, isn't it?
[00:09:27]  What else do you call it?
[00:09:28]  Well, let's begin with the fact that if you listen to the British media, you get the assumption that Smodrich is the Israeli prime minister.
[00:09:34]  Well, he's not.
[00:09:35]  He's not the one who's forming the policy on aid.
[00:09:38]  And the policy you just quoted is actually...
[00:09:39]  So is he a liar?
[00:09:41]  No, all I'm saying is that his policy is not a problem.
[00:09:46]  His statements are not standing in one line with Israel's policy.
[00:09:50]  This is, as a matter of fact.
[00:09:51]  Now, going back to what you quoted, you quoted basically President Trump's plan.
[00:09:56]  And President Trump's plan is speaking about making Gaza a better place.
[00:10:00]  Gaza will be a better place without having a terror hub, without having the underground tunnel city, without having people firing on Israeli cities.
[00:10:08]  Just in the last two weeks, there were more rockets being fired from Gaza to Ashkelon, to some Israeli southern cities.
[00:10:15]  We are not interested with any of that.
[00:10:17]  And I just want to remind you, just in case you're so interested with finishing the war, the war can finish today.
[00:10:23]  If Hamas will surrender, if Hamas will make sure that no weapons in Gaza, if we'll see demilitarization of the Gaza Strip, and if our hostages are back home, the war will be ending today.
[00:10:34]  I mean, just imagine that.
[00:10:36]  Let me ask you though, but you accept that Israel has the strongest military in the Middle East, right?
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[00:11:52]  We have a strong military but very vulnerable population that's been hitted by a terror organization.
[00:11:58]  We're a small country.
[00:11:59]  We're a small country with its border being invaded.
[00:12:02]  Fine.
[00:12:02]  I just asked you a question as to whether you have the strongest military in the Middle East.
[00:12:06]  You accept you do?
[00:12:07]  We do, but at the same time, we're a very vulnerable country when we are surrounded by radical Islamists and including backed up by Israel.
[00:12:14]  I'm not here to defend radical Israel.
[00:12:15]  Who wants to destroy Israel?
[00:12:16]  I'm not here to defend that.
[00:12:18]  I'm not here to defend Hamas, or I think a despicable terror organization.
[00:12:22]  But you said there were 50,000 Hamas.
[00:12:24]  Others have put the total figure at around 25,000, which begs the question, if after 18, 19 months now, you have been waging this ferocious war against 25,000, 26,000 terrorists, and you still haven't defeated them, you still can't get your hostages released, they're still not being released.
[00:12:43]  It's clear to most people that your strategy is failing.
[00:12:46]  But what you're doing is ramping up the attacks, ramping up the devastation, ramping up the clearing out of Gaza.
[00:12:53]  You've got members of the cabinet openly saying they want to get rid of all the Palestinians and get them into another country.
[00:13:00]  So it seems to everybody else that what you're actually doing is not winning any war against Hamas.
[00:13:05]  In fact, many people think, including intelligence that the Americans have received, for every Hamas terrorist you've killed, they've already been replaced multiple times with people with the same ideology.
[00:13:16]  And that would explain why you can't get the hostages out.
[00:13:18]  And in fact, the hostages, the more you bombard Gaza, the more you would say that their own lives become imperiled.
[00:13:25]  And the overriding picture, which is what's getting Israel so much a program around the world, is that your strategy isn't working.
[00:13:33]  There's no clear plan for what happens at the end of all this.
[00:13:37]  Hamas is still clearly alive and well and thriving.
[00:13:40]  Yes, you've killed another one of their leaders today, but you killed his brother who was the architect of October the 7th months ago.
[00:13:48]  And that didn't seem to make any difference to Hamas's ability to continue engaging in battle with you.
[00:13:53]  And the argument remains, how many Palestinian civilian, innocent lives, women and in particular children, are you prepared to kill as you continue going after Hamas when it doesn't appear that you're winning that battle, that that strategy is failing?
[00:14:10]  Pierce, how many Japanese children were killed under American attacks and how many people?
[00:14:15]  What about Israel?
[00:14:16]  Will killed under UK attacks in the Second World War.
[00:14:19]  Listen to them.
[00:14:20]  What about it?
[00:14:22]  If you want to play a fair game, you need to understand how Western armies operated in the past.
[00:14:27]  Israel is not anywhere near to the American attacks on Tokyo that killed 100,000 civilians and not anywhere near to what the UK was doing in the Second World War.
[00:14:38]  Now, when I'm looking about a strategy, I get to hear all the people criticize Israel today, including yourself.
[00:14:43]  And then I'm asking you this question.
[00:14:45]  If Israel finishes the war today and Hamas stays on our doorstep, what kind of future do you promise my children?
[00:14:52]  A future that 7th of October will happen again and again, just like Hamas leaders promised?

=== Why You Don't Know Child Casualties (04:18) ===

[00:14:57]  This is what you expect the Israelis to be able to do this.
[00:14:59]  I do not think Hamas.
[00:15:02]  Hamas should not be allowed to run a welk stool at the end of all this.
[00:15:07]  So how do you achieve that?
[00:15:08]  How do you achieve that?
[00:15:09]  Who's volunteering there to demilitarize the Gaza Strip?
[00:15:12]  With respect to Ambassador, you clearly don't achieve it with the way that you're trying to achieve it.
[00:15:17]  All you're achieving at the moment is making Israel more and more of a global pariah.
[00:15:22]  When only a few days ago, you have two doctors in Gaza who have 10 children and nine of them are killed in a bombardment by your forces.
[00:15:32]  That doesn't make people feel, oh, this is all going great.
[00:15:36]  It makes people think that you're waging a systematic destruction, not just of property and of land, but also of children.
[00:15:44]  And that's what's happening.
[00:15:46]  Percentage of children, the percentage of children that you're killing compared to the percentage of you're killing of Hamas terrorists.
[00:15:52]  What is it?
[00:15:53]  Do you know?
[00:15:53]  Do you know how many people are you?
[00:15:54]  Can I tell you something?
[00:15:57]  Answer me that one question.
[00:15:58]  Do you know how many Hamas terrorists you've killed and how many children you've killed?
[00:16:03]  You know there's two numbers.
[00:16:04]  I know the numbers that came from the IDF.
[00:16:07]  I know the numbers that came from a very, very established person.
[00:16:12]  Give me the two numbers.
[00:16:13]  Wait a second.
[00:16:14]  We killed 30,000.
[00:16:14]  Give me the two numbers.
[00:16:15]  We killed 30,000 terrorists in phase one of the war.
[00:16:19]  Since the war is back, I don't have the numbers.
[00:16:22]  But let me tell you one thing.
[00:16:25]  We never target civilians.
[00:16:26]  So this question is irrelevant.
[00:16:29]  How many children have you killed?
[00:16:30]  Pierce, Israel is not killing children.
[00:16:32]  Israel is not killing children.
[00:16:34]  Hamas is using them as a kid.
[00:16:38]  Pierce, this is a blood label you're putting on Israel.
[00:16:41]  You know it's not true.
[00:16:42]  No, it's not, actually.
[00:16:43]  And what you're trying to do is be very weasel with your words.
[00:16:46]  No, I'm not.
[00:16:47]  The truth is, you are killing a lot of children.
[00:16:51]  You would argue you're not.
[00:16:52]  You know why it's costing you?
[00:16:52]  Hang on, let me finish.
[00:16:53]  Hamas is using them as human shields.
[00:16:55]  Let me finish.
[00:16:56]  My question to you.
[00:16:57]  You are killing a lot of children on a daily basis.
[00:17:00]  That is indisputable.
[00:17:02]  My interesting question for you is, how come you know exactly how many Hamas terrorists you've killed, but you have no idea how many children you've killed?
[00:17:09]  Piers, I will give you the answer because when you're accusing a country of killing children, it sounds to all the people that are listening to us as if Israel wakes up in the morning and says, ooh, let's kill innocent people now.
[00:17:22]  This is not what Israel is doing.
[00:17:24]  Israel is killing people.
[00:17:24]  But you are killing a lot of children.
[00:17:26]  And my question is, how come you know?
[00:17:28]  Can I ask you something?
[00:17:29]  Are you familiar with international law?
[00:17:31]  Are you familiar with that at all?
[00:17:33]  Because the international humanitarian law says very clearly, as long as you're targeting civilian targets, you're allowed to attack hospitals to know that they're terrorists.
[00:17:44]  No, but you're not answering my question.
[00:17:46]  Israel is not deliberately killing children.
[00:17:50]  And this accusation is a fake thing that you keep on saying again and again when you know we're a democratic country cares about your people.
[00:17:57]  I just ask you a simple question.
[00:17:58]  And at the same time, Hamas is deliberately using the children as human shields.
[00:18:04]  And you know that I don't deny anything you say about Hamas.
[00:18:09]  They're everything you say they are, probably worse.
[00:18:11]  I despise Hamas.
[00:18:13]  They are a despicable terrorist organization.
[00:18:15]  So help us win this war if you're so despising Hamas.
[00:18:18]  You're offering to surrender.
[00:18:20]  You're not offering to win.
[00:18:21]  I'm asking you.
[00:18:22]  Okay, I'm asking you this question for a purpose.
[00:18:25]  I'm curious why you know, you say you know, exactly how many Hamas terrorists have been killed, but you have no idea how many children have been killed.
[00:18:33]  Why is it you know one number but not the other?
[00:18:36]  I'll give you the answer because in the end of the day, we never target civilians.
[00:18:41]  We only target the terrorists.
[00:18:43]  Why don't you know the statistics?
[00:18:44]  And we, look, you can ask this question all the time.
[00:18:47]  Are you saying no children have been killed in Gaza?
[00:18:49]  I didn't say that.
[00:18:50]  Are you saying that?
[00:18:50]  I didn't say that.
[00:18:51]  I said...
[00:18:52]  Well, what are you saying?
[00:18:53]  Pierce, what I'm saying is Hamas needs to be able to kill people.
[00:18:55]  How many have been laid?
[00:18:56]  Hamas needs to be paid for any child that is being killed in Gaza.
[00:19:00]  Now, if you want to go into this propaganda of Israel is doing this and that to you.
[00:19:05]  I'm asking you why you know how many terrorists you've killed, but you don't know how many children you've killed in the process.
[00:19:11]  I have an answer because we targeted those terrorists and we never targeted any civilians.

=== Accusing Israel of Deliberate Killing (02:29) ===

[00:19:16]  That's the answer.
[00:19:17]  And this is why many thousands of civilians have been killed.
[00:19:23]  You understand that?
[00:19:24]  Pierce, do you understand that you don't care about my children and other Israeli children by letting 7th of October happen again in the middle of the moment?
[00:19:32]  Oh, I do.
[00:19:34]  In fact, to my detriment, actually, in the Middle East for many, many months, when I was defending Israel's right to defend itself.
[00:19:41]  But now we're at a point where more and more civilians are getting killed in collateral damage as you wage a war and a strategy and a plan, which makes no sense to even your own former prime ministers who think you're committing war crimes.
[00:19:54]  So don't just couch all this as propaganda by people who just, well, okay, but again, I simply ask you one more time.
[00:20:01]  Why is it you know how many Hamas terrorists you've killed, but you don't know how many children you've killed?
[00:20:07]  Why is that?
[00:20:07]  As I said again, because in the end of the day, when you're accusing someone in Israel, you accuse someone in doing something deliberately while Israel is actually doing it deliberately.
[00:20:17]  Can I accuse the UK of killing German children during the war?
[00:20:20]  You would have said it's a psychology.
[00:20:21]  So what about Arie?
[00:20:24]  Explain why you know one number, but you don't know the other.
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=== Pure Fermented Tea for the Gut (15:26) ===

[00:21:45]  Hamas is putting a lot of propaganda into it.
[00:21:48]  And Hamas is trying to provide.
[00:21:50]  But how do you know how many of those people are going to be able to do that?
[00:21:52]  I will give you another example for that.
[00:21:54]  I will give you another example just from last week.
[00:21:56]  Just from last week, I think we all experienced this, I think, one of the most shameful moments in the UN history when Tom Fletcher was throwing a number of 14,000 babies that are about to die.
[00:22:08]  And in the end, he got it completely wrong and was wrong.
[00:22:10]  The BBC had to correct that.
[00:22:12]  And this is part of the propaganda that Hamas is promoting.
[00:22:16]  And I don't want Western media to follow up on Hamas' propaganda.
[00:22:18]  No, I didn't.
[00:22:19]  Very simple.
[00:22:20]  So you're talking to a member of the Western media and I didn't do anything with that report.
[00:22:23]  No, but the BBC did.
[00:22:25]  And then they had to...
[00:22:27]  I'm not the BBC and they were wrong.
[00:22:29]  And he has now retracted it.
[00:22:30]  He explained that actually he misread it.
[00:22:32]  It was if the blockade went on for the whole year.
[00:22:34]  We all know the reality.
[00:22:36]  It was a mistake.
[00:22:37]  But for a day, it was the headline in all Western media accusing Israel in fake things.
[00:22:43]  So we need to fight that.
[00:22:44]  We need to find the fake things that are happening out there.
[00:22:47]  I don't want to find any fake things.
[00:22:48]  I want to get to some facts.
[00:22:50]  You seem to have a very clear idea, Israel, of how many Hamas terrorists you've killed.
[00:22:56]  You've said the number, but you have absolutely no idea how many children have died in the process.
[00:23:02]  I simply ask you why.
[00:23:03]  Why do the lives of the Hamas terrorists?
[00:23:05]  Please listen to me.
[00:23:07]  But you don't record the number of children you've killed.
[00:23:09]  I'm willing here to give you the strategy about the war because this was the question you wanted to do.
[00:23:13]  Why don't you answer my question?
[00:23:14]  I'm giving you only the answers that I have.
[00:23:17]  Just tell me why you know one number and not the other.
[00:23:19]  But the number makes a difference just if you're targeting civilians.
[00:23:23]  If Israel is not targeting civilians according to the international...
[00:23:26]  It doesn't make any difference to the number of children who've died.
[00:23:29]  It does have any right you do.
[00:23:31]  It's a difference according Number of terrorists killed, but you don't know how many children have been killed.
[00:23:36]  And I'm saying you know one, not the other.
[00:23:39]  Explain to me.
[00:23:40]  Treat me like a village idiot.
[00:23:42]  Why is it that you know one number, but you don't know the other?
[00:23:46]  According to the international humanitarian law, it makes a lot of difference if you're targeting civilians, if you're targeting legitimate war aims.
[00:23:54]  I'm not talking about who you're targeting.
[00:23:57]  I'm not saying you're deliberately targeting the children who've been in the country.
[00:24:00]  That's the only thing that's not.
[00:24:02]  No, it's not.
[00:24:05]  Because you know how many terrorists you've killed, you say, but you have to kill them.
[00:24:08]  Because those are the people we targeted.
[00:24:10]  So how many children have died in the process?
[00:24:12]  Why don't you know that number too?
[00:24:14]  Piers, please ask this question to the people that can give you the answer.
[00:24:17]  I don't have the answer.
[00:24:19]  Who has the answer?
[00:24:20]  Please don't ask me questions.
[00:24:22]  Who has the answer?
[00:24:23]  Who has the answer?
[00:24:24]  I don't have the answer.
[00:24:25]  And I will tell you.
[00:24:26]  You're the Israeli ambassador to my country.
[00:24:28]  Who else should I ask?
[00:24:30]  Well, you should ask one question.
[00:24:32]  How do you make sure that the 7th of October won't be repeated?
[00:24:35]  And this is the question you and everyone who criticizes Israel at the moment doesn't have the answer to.
[00:24:40]  And again, here's the question.
[00:24:42]  Here's a question.
[00:24:43]  We are not denying the fact that war is a bad thing, but you never want to.
[00:24:47]  Why don't you let international journalists into Gaza so they can report fairly and freely without being led around by the IDF?
[00:24:55]  Let the journalists in because you've banned them.
[00:24:57]  And the only reason you continue to ban international journalists from going in there is not because of our safety, as you all so quaintly put it.
[00:25:05]  It's because you don't want the Western journalists to get in there and see what's really happening.
[00:25:10]  Only you know why.
[00:25:12]  Only the Israeli government knows why you want to continue banning journalists from international media organizations coming in at their own risk assessment and actually working out whether anything you're saying is true or not.
[00:25:25]  And it may be if you let the international journalists in, well, let me just finish.
[00:25:29]  It may be if you let them in, then they wouldn't just count the number of terrorists who are being killed.
[00:25:34]  They'd be also able to record how many children are being killed.
[00:25:37]  Because it strikes me as utterly extraordinary that you as the ambassador to my country are able to say with complete clarity and certainty, 30,000 Hamas have been killed, but you seem to have absolutely no idea how many children have died in the process.
[00:25:52]  No idea.
[00:25:53]  Or you have no interest.
[00:25:55]  I don't know which one it is.
[00:25:56]  Piers, let me go back to your question about the journalists.
[00:25:59]  I think in the end of the day...
[00:26:00]  Let them in.
[00:26:01]  We are coming to the point where journalists will be allowed to get into Gaza as long as there is no risk for them.
[00:26:06]  And you know that.
[00:26:07]  It's got nothing to do with you, the risk to journalists.
[00:26:10]  It's not your problem.
[00:26:11]  From my point of view, from my point of view, once there is no risk to their life, I'm sure.
[00:26:16]  Hold on a load of flannel, ambassador.
[00:26:18]  Don't treat us like idiots, please.
[00:26:21]  We're not idiots.
[00:26:22]  You're not doing it for our safety.
[00:26:24]  You've banned the journalists so that they don't report on what is actually happening.
[00:26:28]  Only you know why you're doing that.
[00:26:31]  I don't know.
[00:26:32]  Maybe you're doing everything completely fairly.
[00:26:34]  Maybe it is the most moral war ever waged in history, as you keep saying.
[00:26:38]  But the longer it goes on without you allowing journalists in, the less people believe that and the more people believe you have something to hide.
[00:26:48]  There is just one question here, never received an answer.
[00:26:51]  How do you promise to the Israelis that they won't have 7th of October being repeated again?
[00:26:56]  If everyone agrees that Hamas shouldn't control the Gaza Strip, as you just said, who will do the job?
[00:27:01]  Who will volunteer to demilitarize the Gaza Strip according to your philosophy?
[00:27:06]  Why don't you work...
[00:27:07]  Here's my suggestion.
[00:27:08]  Why don't you work harder on the diplomatic side to resolve this conflict, this war?
[00:27:13]  And why don't you bring in all the people that can help resolve that rather than continuing to blow everything up that you can see with your forces?
[00:27:21]  Why don't you try and resolve things diplomatically, which in the end is how you got the other hostages out to date?
[00:27:27]  So it seems to me the bombardment strategy just doesn't work.
[00:27:31]  And all you're doing is making Israel a country, by the way, that I love, and I love Jewish people.
[00:27:37]  It's got nothing to do with either the country or the people, but everything to do with the Israeli government, which has now got people like Svodrich out there very clearly, very brazenly, and very unambiguously dictating a term of genocide on the Palestinian people where he wants them all out of Gaza.
[00:27:56]  Now, do you think that's a good idea?
[00:27:58]  Do you think that's the solution?
[00:27:59]  I'm not speaking for Batsala Smodrich.
[00:28:01]  I'm not a spokesperson.
[00:28:02]  I'm the Israeli.
[00:28:03]  What do you think?
[00:28:04]  And I think whatever the government thinks, because I'm ambassador, I'm representing a government here.
[00:28:09]  How are we supposed to deliver what the government is?
[00:28:11]  I represented the last four governments that Israel had.
[00:28:14]  And let me tell you something.
[00:28:15]  There is not even one leader in Israel today that is running for office, whether he's in the opposition or in government, that believes that Hamas should stay in power.
[00:28:23]  And we released 197 hostages just because we had a combination of a diplomatic pressure together with a military pressure.
[00:28:32]  Nothing would have happened from a goodwill.
[00:28:34]  This is a terror organization.
[00:28:35]  They don't do things from goodwill.
[00:28:36]  There is no goodwill in Hamas.
[00:28:38]  And because you know it, again, I'm disappointed that some people lose patience.
[00:28:42]  Can you lose patience in the middle of the Second World War and just let the Nazi regime win?
[00:28:47]  I don't think it would have been a good idea.
[00:28:48]  Tell you what I've lost patients.
[00:28:50]  I've lost in the middle of the Second World War.
[00:28:51]  I've lost patience.
[00:28:53]  I've lost patience when you start starving kids.
[00:28:55]  I lose patience when you as Nazi government.
[00:28:57]  So this is a lie.
[00:28:58]  This is a complete lie.
[00:28:59]  You know we get aid into Gaza.
[00:29:02]  How do we starve people for letting people?
[00:29:05]  When you launch a three-month blockade of an already impoverished, hungry people who are bunkering down from nightly bombing raids, when you do that, you will starve people.
[00:29:17]  You will starve.
[00:29:19]  The intention, the intention was not to let Hamas get over and take over the aid.
[00:29:24]  And there was no other solutions.
[00:29:26]  No one was offering a better mechanism.
[00:29:28]  But it was the consequence of your actions.
[00:29:30]  Do you accept that?
[00:29:31]  As I said again, Israel never was planning to starve anyone.
[00:29:35]  And our actions are speaking more than our words because in the end of the day, tons of aid got into Gaza for months and months and months.
[00:29:44]  And now I think it's time to stop.
[00:29:46]  I literally saw footage yesterday, or today it was, of literally thousands of Palestinians desperately fighting.
[00:29:53]  One lost their life as they're fighting for scraps of food.
[00:29:57]  Do you think that's the behavior of well-fed people who are not actually starving hungry?
[00:30:02]  Do you think?
[00:30:04]  I think who have been starved now for three months.
[00:30:09]  What I've seen in the last few months.
[00:30:11]  I've seen, first of all, in the last two days, I've seen mechanisms that works.
[00:30:15]  I've seen happy families that receive the aid and they know that now the mechanism is so much better and it gives family by family a box of aid being protected by American companies.
[00:30:27]  I think it's so much better than what used to be.
[00:30:29]  And it would have been nice if the UN organizations would have joined the distribution rather than boycotting this system and just letting the criticism on Israel to continue without them playing along with the new mechanism.
[00:30:42]  It could have been really important.
[00:30:44]  Just to remind you, the most savage criticism of Israel is coming from your own former prime ministers.
[00:30:50]  Not one, but two, and former leaders of the IDF.
[00:30:54]  It's not coming from necessarily people like me, even though I am getting increasingly critical because I find the answers I'm getting just increasingly ridiculous.
[00:31:02]  Out of fairness, because we know each other, I'm going to give you one last chance just to tell me, even a ballpark figure, of how many children have died in Gaza.
[00:31:12]  Peering people.
[00:31:13]  I think I'm very famous for saying the truth.
[00:31:15]  And the truth is that I don't know.
[00:31:17]  If I would have known the number, I wouldn't have hide it from you.
[00:31:19]  So why do you keep on asking the same question again and again?
[00:31:23]  Because I don't understand how you can know how many terrorists you've killed, but you don't know how many civilians you've killed.
[00:31:31]  As I said again, I think that it's totally irrelevant to the main question that humanitarian laws are.
[00:31:39]  The international humanitarian law is never about civilians getting killed.
[00:31:44]  It's only about who are you targeting.
[00:31:47]  And if you're doing a civilian warfare.
[00:31:50]  Are you happy that people are going to watch you as an ambassador to your country say that it's irrelevant how many children have been killed?
[00:31:57]  It's not what I said, Pierce, and you're totally distorting my words.
[00:32:01]  I said, according to the international law, if you want to check if war is fair or not, the only thing you check is the targets that the country that is fighting, whether they're targeting the people.
[00:32:11]  Just to be clear, the militants are not targeting civilians.
[00:32:14]  This is what I said.
[00:32:15]  And please don't twist my words.
[00:32:18]  Can you confirm this thing?
[00:32:19]  Given you have no idea how many children have been killed, can you tell me, are the IDF under specific instructions from the government or from their commanders to only count the number of Hamas terrorists they kill and to completely ignore how many children they're killing?
[00:32:34]  Never.
[00:32:35]  Never.
[00:32:35]  This is not the case.
[00:32:40]  They count civilian deaths.
[00:32:41]  But the IDF has one mission, to work according to the international law when it's fighting a moral war.
[00:32:48]  And even your own historian, Professor Andrew Roberts, said when he sees those circumstances of Gaza, this is the lowest ratio of terrorists versus civilians.
[00:32:58]  So this is your own historian, well-respected military historian, that is saying that about our war.
[00:33:04]  Sorry, with respect, how do you know, given you have no idea how many children you've killed?
[00:33:09]  As I said, Professor Andrew Roberts did is.
[00:33:13]  How do you know it's the lowest ratio?
[00:33:14]  You don't know how many children you've killed.
[00:33:17]  But in the end of the day, it's not just about children.
[00:33:21]  When you're comparing, listen, Pierce, here, you're really creating the totally wrong picture.
[00:33:27]  People, in the end of the day, in the end of the day, we know who are civilians.
[00:33:33]  Civilians include also mature people that are...
[00:33:36]  How do you know the ratio of civilian to Hamas deaths if you've no idea?
[00:33:41]  As I said, we gave...
[00:33:43]  You asked me about children.
[00:33:44]  I don't have the answer specific about children.
[00:33:46]  I do have the answer about civilians versus corporations.
[00:33:48]  But you're aware that it is reported that over 20,000 children have now been killed.
[00:33:54]  As I said, this has not been backed up with facts, and I cannot approve this number.
[00:33:59]  Right, but you know how many terrorists you've killed.
[00:34:02]  Yes, this is the last data we received from the IDF.
[00:34:05]  Okay, so you're only getting the data about the terrorists.
[00:34:08]  I think a proper army should know that he's doing a fair war by working according to the international humanitarian law.
[00:34:16]  And this is what the IDF is doing.
[00:34:17]  And if you would have known how much the legal advisor are working hard whenever we go into any military operation, I just want to tell you a few years ago, Israel had the opportunity to make sure all Hamas leadership will be eliminated by one action, but we didn't do anything to do that that probably would have prevented October 7 because we knew too many civilians would have been involved.
[00:34:41]  So Israel is very cautious when it acts.
[00:34:43]  Israel doesn't target civilians.
[00:34:45]  And in the end of the day, you need to understand that this is our children's life here, our security and our defense.
[00:34:52]  No Israel wants to face another terror attack like the 7th of October.
[00:34:57]  Your children's lives are clearly very important to you.
[00:34:59]  I'm just curious why Palestinian children's lives aren't.
[00:35:02]  It's not what I'm saying, but unfortunately, Hamas doesn't care about the children.
[00:35:06]  Hamas is the one who's using them as human shield.
[00:35:08]  And if you would have looked at the reality in Gaza, you would have said this is a monstrous leadership that wants to kill children deliberately.
[00:35:18]  The reality in Gaza is you've destroyed the place.
[00:35:21]  You've killed tens of thousands of civilians in the process of killing.
[00:35:25]  We don't know how many terrorists.
[00:35:26]  You say 30,000.
[00:35:28]  I cannot understand how you know that number, but have no idea how many children have died as well.
[00:35:33]  But you say that, that's fine.
[00:35:34]  If you're happy with that position, that's fine.
[00:35:36]  But the truth is you are destroying Gaza, and you have senior members of Netanyahu's government in his cabinet at senior level on the record now saying the policy is to clear them all out, clear all the Palestinians out and get them out of Gaza.
[00:35:52]  And as the Israeli ambassador, I'm saying this is not the government's policy.
[00:35:56]  And this is on policy, I can tell you clearly.
[00:36:00]  The policy is to make sure Gaza won't be a threat on Israel.
[00:36:03]  Well, then you should get him fired for spreading disingenuous lies which sound like genocide, shouldn't you?
[00:36:10]  Otherwise, if you don't, we have to assume that is the government.
[00:36:14]  I'm saying again, the government's policy is being carried by the prime minister, by the foreign minister, by the defense minister.
[00:36:22]  Those are the three people that are actually carrying the policy as a matter of a fact.
[00:36:27]  And I think you just enjoy quoting those things, but you know that Israel is...
[00:36:32]  I don't enjoy any of this, Ambassador.
[00:36:34]  I don't enjoy any of this.
[00:36:35]  I think this war should end now.
[00:36:37]  I think you're supposed to be able to do it.
[00:36:38]  Without having security to Israel.
[00:36:40]  And it should end now.
[00:36:41]  Without security to Israel.
[00:36:43]  Without the hostages coming back.
[00:36:45]  You need a better strategy.
[00:36:47]  You need a plan that can work.
[00:36:48]  You need a plan for after the war.
[00:36:50]  The growing belief is that your Prime Minister Netanyahu, he has no incentive to stop this war.
[00:36:56]  The moment he does, 70% of Israelis hold him accountable for what happened in the first place on October the 7th.
[00:37:02]  So he'll be out of his job.
[00:37:04]  Then he's facing corruption charges.
[00:37:06]  He'll be in a courtroom where he may go to prison.
[00:37:08]  Where's the incentive for that leader to bring this war to an end?

=== Netanyahu Has No Incentive to Stop (03:32) ===

[00:37:12]  There isn't one, which is why we've got where we've got to.
[00:37:15]  And that is the cold, hard reality of where we are.
[00:37:19]  And that's why your own country is.
[00:37:21]  That's why your own former prime ministers are turning on this strategy and this government and its policies.
[00:37:28]  And you know it and I know it.
[00:37:30]  Don't worry about what I see.
[00:37:31]  Let me just say I'm just an angry journalist.
[00:37:34]  You've got ex-prime ministers of Israel who say you're committing war crimes.
[00:37:38]  And if you want to prove you're not, let the journalists in and we can work it out for ourselves.
[00:37:42]  Here's let me just make like a final comment because you were saying a lot.
[00:37:46]  So I want to say one thing.
[00:37:48]  Israel doesn't like fighting.
[00:37:50]  This is our sons, brothers and husbands that are fighting this war.
[00:37:54]  No one has an interest to lose his business and to fight for 600 days unless it's really existential threat.
[00:38:02]  And Gaza has become existential threat because of what happened, because they're being backed up by Iran.
[00:38:07]  And we're not going to let it repeat, even if we lose your sympathy.
[00:38:11]  And we need to win this war.
[00:38:13]  And Israel will do everything to make sure Hamas won't control the Gaza Strip.
[00:38:17]  And I don't get to hear from anyone, including the leaders of Europe, a better plan of how to dismantle Hamas besides fighting.
[00:38:25]  And this is where I'm concluding my conclusion.
[00:38:28]  The war can end up today if Hamas will surrender and if he'll bring our hostages back.
[00:38:33]  Okay.
[00:38:34]  Ambassador Hotovelli, I appreciate you coming on censor.
[00:38:37]  Thank you.
[00:38:37]  Thank you very much.
[00:38:54]  And on the weekend, we go longer with the PDB Situation Report with excellent guests, including national security insiders and foreign policy experts.
[00:39:02]  Check us out on Spotify, Apple, or wherever you get your podcast.
[00:39:05]  Also, on our YouTube channel at President's Daily Brief.
[00:39:09]  Well, my thanks to Israel's ambassador to the United Kingdom.
[00:39:11]  Listening to that was Mustafa Barghouti, Secretary General of the Palestinian National Initiative, who joins me now from the West Bank.
[00:39:18]  Mr. Barghouti, welcome back to you two, Uncensored.
[00:39:23]  As you can tell, that was a pretty fractious interview I just conducted with the ambassador to the UK.
[00:39:30]  I did find it utterly staggering that she seemed to rattle off precise numbers of Hamas terrorists who'd been killed, but had absolutely no idea how many children had been killed in the process.
[00:39:42]  And in fact, used the word irrelevant at one stage.
[00:39:44]  What is your reaction?
[00:39:47]  Well, there are many reactions, actually.
[00:39:49]  I happen to hear some of the answers, not all of them.
[00:39:53]  But first of all, which is the most important thing, the policy of ethnic cleansing, which Smotric is advocating, the finance minister of Israel, not any minister, the minister of finance, this is usually considered the second most important ministry in any government.
[00:40:10]  But it's not just him who's saying these things.
[00:40:14]  It's Netanyahu himself, the prime minister.
[00:40:16]  The prime minister of Israel is on record saying repeatedly that his goal is to push everybody in Gaza to the south in a concentration camp practically in Rafah area and then to displace them.
[00:40:32]  And he keeps calling that Trump's vision, the Trump's vision of ethnic cleansing, basically.
[00:40:39]  So it's not a Smotrich policy.
[00:40:42]  It's the Israeli government policy.

=== Displacing Everyone to Rafah Concentration Camps (08:08) ===

[00:40:44]  That's one.
[00:40:44]  Second, of course, we know that about 20,000 children have died and have been killed by the Israeli bombardment.
[00:40:53]  And these are not just numbers.
[00:40:56]  I mean, these are names of people.
[00:40:58]  You mentioned the medical doctor, the pediatrician Ala and Najar, who lost nine of her children in an Israeli bombardment.
[00:41:08]  I know another person, Brahim Abu Mhadi, who had six of his sons killed.
[00:41:15]  They're not all children, but six of his sons who were working in a kitchen preparing food.
[00:41:22]  They were absolutely innocent.
[00:41:24]  The reality is that, unfortunately, so far, 175,000 Palestinians were either killed or injured or imprisoned in this terrible war.
[00:41:36]  And that is about 10% of the population.
[00:41:40]  10%, apply that to the United States of America, and you will get the number of 33 million Americans killed or injured within the course of 20 months.
[00:41:50]  This is beyond description.
[00:41:52]  By the way, this is much more than even the Second World War proportionally.
[00:41:58]  Even in France, the number, I think, of those who were killed is less than 6% during the Second World War.
[00:42:06]  And even going to the Second World War is by itself a mistake, because how could you compare the situation then with the situation after the Second World War when we had the United Nations and for the first time international law and international humanitarian law and international criminal court and international court of justice?
[00:42:27]  So it's unacceptable even to compare.
[00:42:30]  Although even if you compare, what Israel has done is much more criminal than what any other government did before.
[00:42:38]  The amount of explosives that were thrown on Gaza since the beginning of this war is no less than 100,000 tons of explosives.
[00:42:47]  That is 50 kilograms of explosives for each man, woman, and child in Gaza.
[00:42:54]  That is more than five nuclear bombs, similar to those that were thrown on Hiroshima and Nagasaki during the Second World War.
[00:43:03]  So it is really shocking.
[00:43:05]  And the more important question I would like to answer, because it was asked repeatedly, how can Israel have the security, how Israeli people can be safe?
[00:43:16]  The solution is very simple.
[00:43:19]  It is the solution that Israel has been avoiding for 77 years, which is to accept us, the Palestinian people, as equal human beings, to end their occupation and establish peace.
[00:43:33]  And if they want, if they accept two-state solutions, they should bring international forces.
[00:43:38]  We don't mind.
[00:43:39]  Let them sit on the border to guarantee the security for both of us.
[00:43:44]  Or if they want one democratic state with equal rights for everybody.
[00:43:48]  But not to accept two-state solutions as they do and not to accept one democratic state means that their only solution to the fact that we have 7.3 million people in Palestine versus 7.1 Jewish people, their only solution is ethnic cleansing.
[00:44:07]  That is the reality.
[00:44:09]  And the only way out of this situation, the only way out of these vicious circles of wars, is to accept Palestinians as equal human beings, accept our right for self-determination.
[00:44:21]  Today, today, Gedran Sar, the foreign minister of Israel, said openly, publicly, that if the other countries continue to recognize the Palestinian states, he will impose Israeli sovereignty on the West Bank, which means annexation of the occupied Palestinian territories, which is yet another violation of international solutions.
[00:44:44]  Okay, let me just ask you one question, which is, if I was an Israeli or a member of that government, I would not countenance for one second that anyone from Hamas could form any part of a new government going forward after this war.
[00:45:01]  Do you accept that Hamas can play no part in any government going forward?
[00:45:06]  You know, surprisingly, it's not me that have to accept that.
[00:45:11]  Hamas accepts that.
[00:45:13]  Hamas told us, I was present in the meeting that took place in Beijing about a year ago in July last year, when we had a meeting of all the 14 Palestinian parties.
[00:45:26]  Hamas, the leaders of Hamas, told us, and they did that repeatedly, more than once, that they are ready not to be in the government of Gaza.
[00:45:37]  They don't want to be in the government of Gaza.
[00:45:39]  And what we reached in the agreement we reached in Bejin was very clear.
[00:45:45]  There will be a national consensus government consisting of independents, but that are acceptable to different Palestinian political forces.
[00:45:55]  And it would be an interim government till the war ends until we have the possibility of reconstructing Gaza.
[00:46:01]  So Hamas has told us they don't want to be in the government.
[00:46:05]  Okay, obviously, obviously.
[00:46:09]  Obviously, Hamas is still holding 58 hostages.
[00:46:13]  Why don't they just release them?
[00:46:15]  Why is there not enough pressure from the Palestinian world collectively to compel Hamas just to release the hostages and bring this to an end?
[00:46:26]  Why don't they do it?
[00:46:27]  Why don't they do it?
[00:46:28]  No, no, no, no.
[00:46:29]  Why don't they just do it?
[00:46:33]  Give me the chance to answer you.
[00:46:35]  They are ready to release all the Israeli prisoners.
[00:46:39]  And they should be called prisoners of war because they are all soldiers.
[00:46:42]  But nevertheless, call them captives if you want.
[00:46:45]  They're not all soldiers.
[00:46:46]  They're not all soldiers.
[00:46:47]  No, the ones that are still in with the Hamas are all soldiers.
[00:46:51]  You can check that.
[00:46:52]  They're all soldiers.
[00:46:54]  All the civilians were released already a long time ago.
[00:46:57]  So they are ready to release these soldiers immediately.
[00:47:01]  Of course, in exchange of a number of Palestinian prisoners who are sentenced to life imprisonment, because as I don't know if you know or not, but there is more than 10,000 Palestinian prisoners in Israeli jails, including, by the way, including 300 children, including, by the way, 3,600 that can be called captives as well, because they are civilians.
[00:47:28]  And they are arrested without charges under the so-called administrative detention law, which means they are in jail without knowing why.
[00:47:36]  They could be in jail for years without even their lawyers knowing why they are in jail and without any legal process or any due legal process.
[00:47:45]  So the Hamas position and the other Palestinian parties' position in Gaza is clear.
[00:47:50]  They are ready to release all Israeli prisoners in exchange of release of some of the Palestinian prisoners in Israeli jails and the end of the war.
[00:48:00]  It's very simple.
[00:48:01]  Okay.
[00:48:02]  Mustafa Baghuti, if only it was simple, but if it was simple, it would have happened.
[00:48:06]  So it's not a simple situation.
[00:48:08]  No, it's not simple for Netanyahu, of course.
[00:48:10]  But as you said, Netanyahu, Netanyahu doesn't care about the Israeli prisoners, doesn't care about their release.
[00:48:18]  All he cares about is himself, about his continuity as a prime minister.
[00:48:23]  He's afraid of being taken to jail, as you said, or losing any chance of staying in political life.
[00:48:30]  And he is most afraid.
[00:48:32]  The other day, I heard one Israeli defenders of Netanyahu saying that the prime minister is the one responsible for the government policy.
[00:48:41]  And that's why he has the right to appoint the head of Shebag.
[00:48:44]  Well, if he is the one responsible, then why he is escaping the responsibility for what happened on the 7th of October?

=== Netanyahu Fears Jail and Losing Power (00:30) ===

[00:48:53]  Okay, Mustafa Barghuti, always good to have you on the show.
[00:48:56]  Thank you very much.
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