Uncensored - Piers Morgan - 20250519_massive-cover-up-joe-biden-cancer-diagnosis-gaza-d
Aired: 2025-05-19
Duration: 01:14:07


=== Advanced Prostate Cancer Concerns (12:21) ===

[00:00:00]  Prostate cancer doesn't occur overnight, whether it's aggressive or not.
[00:00:03]  It grows slowly.
[00:00:05]  I don't automatically believe that we're being told the whole story here.
[00:00:08]  Has there been, do you think, a massive cover-up here?
[00:00:11]  We all saw it in public appearances.
[00:00:14]  It was super obvious.
[00:00:16]  He would shake hands with invisible people.
[00:00:18]  This is not a close case.
[00:00:20]  Please spare us this apologist nonsense for the great man of Joe Biden.
[00:00:26]  Was he performatively always perfect?
[00:00:29]  Clearly not.
[00:00:30]  Remember, adrenaline flows when you're confronted with a crisis.
[00:00:34]  We all know that.
[00:00:35]  It's an absolutely asinine take.
[00:00:37]  The guy was obviously sick from day one while he was in office.
[00:00:41]  Truly one of the largest, I would say, health scandals, bigger than Watergate of our time.
[00:00:46]  President Trump reshapes the political map in the Middle East and calls President Putin.
[00:00:51]  Netanyahu goes too far in Gaza.
[00:00:53]  Plenty to debate, but we have to begin with the shocking news, of course, of former President Biden's cancer diagnosis.
[00:01:00]  This far advanced, meaning Gleason 9 metastasized to the bone.
[00:01:05]  The five-year survival rate is somewhere between 30 and 40%.
[00:01:09]  Again, depending on how well he responds to therapy.
[00:01:13]  I mean, he must have had the best possible care here.
[00:01:16]  I just, I'm a little taken aback that it's this far advanced and very, very concerned about it.
[00:01:22]  Well, we'll hear from Dr. Siegel again shortly.
[00:01:25]  Dr. Zeke Emanuel, an oncologist who worked closely with former President Barack Obama, said this morning there is no way that Biden developed this in the past 200 days, and he probably had it at the beginning of his presidency.
[00:01:38]  So how was this not picked up by the world-class physicians who examine him regularly?
[00:01:43]  Or was it picked up?
[00:01:44]  And there's been another cover-up.
[00:01:45]  That would be truly shocking, but this is a shocking story on many levels.
[00:01:49]  It's shocking to hear such a bleak prognosis for a man who a year ago was still campaigning to be president.
[00:01:55]  On a human level, it's shocking that so many people have immediately made this an issue of bitter partisan tribal politics.
[00:02:02]  The only correct and humane response is to surely wish Joe Biden and his family well as he now fights for his life.
[00:02:09]  That is exactly what President Trump did with a classy and restrained statement.
[00:02:13]  He simply said, we extend our warmest and best wishes to Jill and the family, and we wish Joe a fast and successful recovery.
[00:02:19]  Instead, many of his supporters immediately began mocking Biden and celebrating his illness in heartless posts, which are currently all over social media.
[00:02:26]  There's no doubt it would be exactly the same.
[00:02:28]  I suspect a lot worse, actually, if this story was about President Trump.
[00:02:32]  Joe Biden was unfit for office.
[00:02:34]  That's a fact.
[00:02:34]  I said it many times.
[00:02:36]  Biden's inner circle cover up his decline with the help of a complicit media, which felt it was his duty to stop Trump.
[00:02:42]  That's a fact, too.
[00:02:43]  But it's also a fact that an old man has very aggressive cancer.
[00:02:48]  And if your first reaction to that news is to be gleeful or ecstatic or to mock him, then you're frankly a despicable human being.
[00:02:57]  Before I introduce the panel, I'm joined by Dr. Mark Siegel, the Fox News Senior Medical Analyst.
[00:03:02]  Dr. Mark, great to have you back on Uncensored, a bombshell piece of news last night involving the health of former President Joe Biden.
[00:03:11]  I think my sort of fundamental question for you is this.
[00:03:15]  How serious is it?
[00:03:17]  It seems on the face of it very serious for a man in his 80s to have stage five prostate cancer, very aggressive, very advanced, and metastasizing into his bones, just on the face of it to a layman, seems extremely serious.
[00:03:32]  But also, what's something that Ezekiel Emmanuel said on MSNBC this morning and your reaction to that?
[00:03:39]  Let's play this.
[00:03:41]  Oh, more than several years.
[00:03:42]  You don't get prostate cancer.
[00:03:46]  I just want to stop you.
[00:03:47]  So this is not speculation.
[00:03:50]  If you have prostate cancer that has spread to the bone, then he's most certainly, you are saying, had it when he was president of the United States.
[00:04:00]  Oh, yeah.
[00:04:01]  He did not develop it in the last 100, 200 days.
[00:04:05]  He had it while he was president.
[00:04:07]  He probably had it at the start of his presidency in 2021.
[00:04:13]  So, Dr. Mark, first of all, how serious do you think his current condition is?
[00:04:18]  And secondly, your response to what Ezekiel Emmanuel said.
[00:04:23]  His current condition is very serious because it's been diagnosed under the microscope, Gleason 9 phase 5, which means it's about as aggressive as any prostate cancer can be.
[00:04:36]  And that means that it has the ability to spread even further than the one metastasis to the bone.
[00:04:44]  The statistics on this is under 40% five-year survival rate in that category, metastatic prostate cancer to the bone, under 40%.
[00:04:56]  On top of that, the aggressivity, I would think, would make it worse.
[00:05:00]  The only thing on the positive column is that they're reporting that, Piers, it does seem to be responsive to anti-testosterone therapy, which is very typically given.
[00:05:10]  A lot of side effects, including fatigue and decreased libido.
[00:05:14]  But if there's a lot of testosterone associated with this tumor, then treating it that way will help.
[00:05:19]  A lot is going to depend on the first few months and the response to this systemic therapy.
[00:05:25]  But he's in a category where he is more likely to not live five years than to live five years, tragically.
[00:05:33]  And in relation to this suggestion that he must have had this for several years, maybe even going back to when he won the White House in 2020, what do you feel about that?
[00:05:46]  Well, Piers, first of all, let's remember that we're about a day away from reporting the fact that we're not getting the true health story from this White House near the Biden White House.
[00:05:55]  I mean, we just reported that, that we believe that he was cognitively impaired for his whole term.
[00:06:01]  And I was reporting on that four or five years ago.
[00:06:03]  White House keeping have glowing physicals about his cognition.
[00:06:07]  How can we then jump from there to assume that whatever they write right now is completely accurate and fully disclosed?
[00:06:14]  And as Ezekiel Emmanuel, who's an oncologist, by the way, ultra-Democrat, saying he likely had it throughout his term, I believe that's true.
[00:06:22]  Prostate cancer doesn't occur overnight, whether it's aggressive or not.
[00:06:26]  It grows slowly, usually.
[00:06:28]  Maybe it grew slowly and then it turned into this aggressiveness.
[00:06:32]  I don't know when this was diagnosed.
[00:06:34]  I think it's really important to say that we screen people.
[00:06:38]  And even if the official recommendations in the United States are not to routinely screen people over 70, I frankly disagree with that because the treatments we have are so phenomenal now that we should be screening people over 70, over 80.
[00:06:52]  People are riding bicycles like the former president.
[00:06:55]  He should be screened.
[00:06:56]  Was he screened?
[00:06:57]  I hope he was screened.
[00:06:59]  I would be shocked if he wasn't.
[00:07:01]  And if he was, what did they find?
[00:07:02]  And when did they find him?
[00:07:04]  And did they disclose it?
[00:07:06]  But I don't automatically believe that we're being told the whole story here.
[00:07:10]  No, I agree.
[00:07:11]  And if what Ezekiel Emmanuel says is right, and he is a very eminent oncologist, it just defies credulity, frankly, that given the amount of medical testing a president of the United States must have on a routine basis, that it would not include a basic test for prostate cancer because all men over a certain age are encouraged to do that all the time.
[00:07:37]  No, Pierre is that's true.
[00:07:38]  And it gets even beyond that.
[00:07:40]  You have your routine PSA, which is about 70% sensitive for prostate cancer.
[00:07:46]  you can do a free PSA, which if it's low, indicates prostate cancer.
[00:07:50]  We now have a urine test for biomarkers for prostate cancer.
[00:07:54]  There's genetic profiling you can do.
[00:07:56]  There's so many things you could do to a president of the United States to be screening for this that it'd be a very high likelihood that you would pick it up in advance.
[00:08:04]  Also, of course, the prostate nodule, you know, probably has been there for a while as well.
[00:08:10]  I don't, this story doesn't jive entirely.
[00:08:14]  You know, I'm not saying, by the way, to your viewers, that you couldn't have advanced prostate cancer and not know it.
[00:08:21]  It's hard for me to believe that you're the president of the United States and you advanced prostate cancer and not know it.
[00:08:27]  And one more point, you and I talk all the time about royalty in England not telling us about their health.
[00:08:34]  Why would this be any different?
[00:08:36]  We have a long history in the United States about not disclosing the health of presidents.
[00:08:41]  And if you had an advanced and aggressive form of cancer, could it impair your cognitive ability in the way that we clearly saw demonstrated by Joe Biden in the last 18 months to two years?
[00:08:54]  In other words, if he had it, and let's assume for a moment he had it but wasn't aware of it and it wasn't picked up.
[00:09:00]  And I think that's a big leap, frankly, given the scale of medical treatments he would have had and medical attention he would have had in testing and so on.
[00:09:09]  But let's assume that is the case.
[00:09:12]  Could that have had an impact on his cognitive abilities?
[00:09:16]  Let me answer that in a statistical way.
[00:09:20]  I know what you're getting at, and I want to answer it this way.
[00:09:23]  Prostate cancer goes from the prostate to the lymph nodes to the bone.
[00:09:30]  I don't believe it's likely that he had a metastasis to the brain, which would impair cognition potentially.
[00:09:36]  But I do think that if it was diagnosed a few years ago, the way Zeke Emmanuel is saying, and he got some kind of treatment, radiation therapy or immunotherapy or hormone therapy or surgery.
[00:09:48]  I doubt he had surgery.
[00:09:49]  I think we would have known about that.
[00:09:50]  But if he had some kind of therapy, that might have impaired him.
[00:09:54]  The actual treatment that he got might have.
[00:09:57]  I just think there are so many unanswered questions.
[00:10:00]  I also think just on a human level, you know, your heart goes out to the Biden family.
[00:10:04]  He's, as everybody knows, he suffered an awful lot of hellish health situations in his life.
[00:10:11]  His son died of brain cancer.
[00:10:12]  He lost his wife and baby in a car crash.
[00:10:15]  He's had a lot of health issues himself.
[00:10:17]  He's now facing, it looks like a pretty serious threat to his life with this.
[00:10:21]  And I think on a human level, I've been very dismayed by some of the kind of vitriol, the mockery, the open abuse and all the rest of it that's come as a result of that announcement.
[00:10:34]  It's not good.
[00:10:36]  I want to comment on that briefly.
[00:10:37]  I'm so glad you ended on that, Piers.
[00:10:39]  You're a great human being and it's a pleasure to be on with you always.
[00:10:43]  This president is a fighter and he lived on after his son died of brain cancer.
[00:10:49]  He lived on after that terrible accident with his daughter and his wife.
[00:10:53]  He's tough.
[00:10:54]  He fights.
[00:10:55]  And my experience, and I have a book coming out on this in the fall, is that that type of strength will help him in his fight against cancer.
[00:11:03]  And I wish him the best.
[00:11:04]  We pray for him.
[00:11:05]  We hope for him.
[00:11:06]  Politics aside, he's a strong figure, and I hope he overcomes this.
[00:11:11]  Very well said.
[00:11:12]  Dr. Mark, great to have you back on, especially on a busy day like this.
[00:11:15]  I really appreciate it.
[00:11:17]  Thank you, Pierce.
[00:11:18]  Thanks for having me.
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=== Biden's Nuclear Decision Stand (07:34) ===

[00:12:21]  Well, joining me now, James Rubin, the former U.S. diplomat and co-host of the X-Files with Christian M and Paul, which launched last Tuesday.
[00:12:27]  Jake Uger, founder and host of The Young Turks, Doran Spielman, the IDF reservist and author of the new book, When the Stones Speak, Scott Horton, host of the Scott Horton show and author of Provoked, and Natalie Winters, the co-host of Bannon's War Room.
[00:12:41]  Well, thank you all for joining me.
[00:12:43]  I got you all together ostensibly when we booked this panel to talk about the foreign affairs of the Trump administration, not least his trip to the Middle East, not least what's happening in Ukraine, the phone call today with Putin and so on.
[00:12:58]  But we can't not start, I think, with this bombshell news.
[00:13:01]  Let me start with you, James Rubin, who's been very plugged into the Democrats for a long time.
[00:13:06]  I think there are several aspects of this extraordinary revelation about Joe Biden's health.
[00:13:12]  But the most pertinent, it seems to me, is a lot of oncologists like Azek Emmanuel have come out and said it is simply impossible for this not to have been detected a lot earlier than not just last week, but years ago.
[00:13:29]  And especially if you're the president of the United States and you're having medicals all the time.
[00:13:33]  Has there been, do you think, a massive cover-up here?
[00:13:36]  Or is this conspiracy theory mayhem running riots?
[00:13:41]  I haven't the faintest idea.
[00:13:42]  I'm not a doctor.
[00:13:43]  I really wouldn't know.
[00:13:45]  What I do know, and what I think is getting lost in this discussion, is that as a mistake as it was to run for re-election, as he did for several months and then stood down, President Biden had a good presidency, and our country was better off for it.
[00:14:01]  And all this discussion of performativeness about communications and was he an older man and this and that, he made good decisions.
[00:14:10]  He made good judgments.
[00:14:11]  The United States and the West were better off because he decided to stand up to Vladimir Putin after his invasion of Ukraine.
[00:14:18]  And I don't think there's any other Democrat who would have done what Joe Biden did, which is stand up to Putin, gather world leaders together and really put the pressure on in defense of Ukraine.
[00:14:29]  Whether the Trump would have, I think is doubtful.
[00:14:32]  And I suspect that some of the other Democrats, as Barack Obama was in 2014, would have been reluctant to stand up to Vladimir Putin.
[00:14:40]  So the big issue of our time is not what did or didn't happen during the oncology exams.
[00:14:47]  It's whether we're going to stand up to face a Russia that is militarized, that is supported by the world's largest military buildup in the world in China.
[00:14:58]  And is the West going to respond to that?
[00:15:00]  And these are the issues that I focus on.
[00:15:02]  I don't really know.
[00:15:03]  But aren't the two, I mean, look, yeah, but James, aren't the two inexorably interlinked in the sense that the person charged with making potentially enormous decisions in how you combat somebody like Vladimir Putin, potentially even down to considering the deployment of nuclear weapons, that that person, it was pretty obvious the last two years of his presidency, his cognitive decline was rapid, his physical decline was rapid.
[00:15:30]  And this new book by Jake Tapper and Alex Thompson, which is a number one bestseller now, but this new book, it carries just endless revelations, very well-sourced revelations, that Biden simply wasn't fit for office in that last period of his presidency.
[00:15:47]  So I don't disagree with you that the situation with Putin was an enormously important thing, or that Biden went some way to try and tackle him in Ukraine.
[00:16:00]  Where I dispute is the fact that it's sort of either or.
[00:16:02]  To me, if the President of the United States is not fit for office and he has to deal with someone like Vladimir Putin, that's an incredibly dangerous situation for the United States and the world.
[00:16:13]  Do you accept that?
[00:16:15]  Not in the least.
[00:16:16]  Joe Biden was president for four years.
[00:16:19]  I worked very, very closely with him as a young man, and I didn't work with him as president.
[00:16:24]  But Tony Blinken, who was the Secretary of State, did.
[00:16:27]  I spoke to him yesterday about this, knowing these kind of questions are coming out.
[00:16:31]  And it was his observation that when it came to decisions about war and peace, nuclear threats or no nuclear threats, gathering together the West, dealing with Netanyahu's government, dealing with the Chinese, that he never observed a failure of judgment on the part of the president.
[00:16:49]  Was he performatively always perfect?
[00:16:52]  Clearly not.
[00:16:54]  He made that decision for himself that he couldn't run for another term.
[00:16:58]  But to jump to that and say because he might have had a prostate cancer diagnosis, he wasn't fit to be president is a real big leap for me.
[00:17:06]  I believe President Biden made very good decisions in foreign affairs where I know something about it, where I observe the decisions, where I've been in this business for 35 years.
[00:17:16]  And I know how hard it is for presidents to make decisions, to both confront Putin, but avoid the risk of nuclear war.
[00:17:23]  President Trump is obsessed with the risk of nuclear war.
[00:17:26]  If you ask him what pissed him off about Zelensky in the White House office was when Zelensky suggested there were risks to the United States.
[00:17:35]  So Joe Biden stood up to Vladimir Putin, gathered the West, confronted Russia, and avoided the risk of world war using the subtlety and decision-making that he had as president.
[00:17:47]  And his Secretary of State has testified to me, and I believe him, this is an honest man, that he never observed in the conduct of foreign affairs, in the conduct of foreign affairs, he never observed the decision-making cognitive failures that are being attributed to Joe Biden because he had a bad debate night.
[00:18:06]  Or was it old man who occasionally did forget names, who occasionally had a bad memory?
[00:18:10]  But when he was confronted with crises, remember, adrenaline flows when you're confronted with a crisis.
[00:18:16]  We all know that, Piers, you know that perfectly well.
[00:18:18]  Well, yeah, you do, but I'm not aired and old.
[00:18:20]  But adrenaline flows when you're president and you make good decisions.
[00:18:24]  And I've had that testified to me by Lincoln, and I trust him.
[00:18:29]  Okay, Cheng Uger, so look, we've got it all wrong.
[00:18:33]  When it came to the big decisions, Biden was spot on.
[00:18:36]  I don't really accept the adrenaline thing simply because the President of the United States shouldn't need an adrenaline rush to make good decisions would be my observation, James.
[00:18:44]  But I hear you.
[00:18:45]  You know, you've spoken to well-sourced people, high-level, and some of them have been out there saying, you know what, he was fine when it came to big decisions.
[00:18:52]  Cheng, your response to this, and I guess the big question is going to be, if these oncologists are correct in what they're saying, that he must have had this for several years at least to have progressed to the stage where it metastasized to his bones, then was there a cover-up?
[00:19:09]  And is the cognitive issue we're talking about actually connected to the fact that all this time he's had aggressive cancer?
[00:19:19]  Yeah, so let's establish things that make sense.
[00:19:22]  So first of all, now at this point, President Biden has a very serious form of cancer.
[00:19:29]  So my heart goes out to him and his family.
[00:19:32]  And this isn't personal.
[00:19:34]  But at the same time, we have to be honest about what got us into this mess.
[00:19:39]  Because it isn't about Biden.
[00:19:41]  It's about do you just bow your head to power and the demands of power, including the gaslighting and the absurdity.
[00:19:49]  So Democratic leadership told us that Joe Biden was fine mentally, physically.
[00:19:53]  And they told us that a thousand times.

=== Serious Cancer and Diplomacy (15:03) ===

[00:19:55]  They were lying.
[00:19:57]  It was obvious that he was not fine.
[00:19:59]  I don't need to be a doctor.
[00:20:01]  I didn't need to be an insider that was with him 24 hours a day.
[00:20:04]  We all saw it in public appearances.
[00:20:07]  It was super obvious.
[00:20:09]  He would shake hands with invisible people.
[00:20:11]  This is not a close case.
[00:20:13]  He would mumble.
[00:20:14]  He would say things like, we defeated Medicare.
[00:20:16]  Come on.
[00:20:17]  So now I'm supposed to sit here and listen to this absurdity about how he was such a great decision maker when the adrenaline was flowing through him.
[00:20:26]  Adrenaline can lead to bad decisions.
[00:20:28]  And this is just preposterous all around.
[00:20:30]  So did they know that he had this type of cancer?
[00:20:32]  Well, there's only two possible answers.
[00:20:34]  One is Biden said, don't test me.
[00:20:37]  And maybe because he was worried that they would come up with things that would show that he shouldn't be president.
[00:20:42]  And he had, let's be honest, infinite greed, infinite ego.
[00:20:46]  And it had to be him.
[00:20:47]  It had to be him.
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[00:21:48]  One thing that Jamie just said that I don't agree with at all is this idea that it couldn't.
[00:21:58]  You said no other Democrat could have rallied our allies to oppose Russia when they invaded Ukraine.
[00:22:05]  Why?
[00:22:05]  Are all the other Democrats in the country pathetic?
[00:22:08]  This kind of hero worship is absurd.
[00:22:11]  No, many other Democrats would have done the same thing that Joe Biden did.
[00:22:15]  And I would argue a lot better because they were in much better mental shape.
[00:22:19]  So if we actually challenged our own, we would get better leaders.
[00:22:24]  We would get stronger leaders, leaders who could defeat people like Donald Trump, who has an IQ of around 70.
[00:22:31]  If you can't manage to beat Donald Trump, and it isn't about Biden, there's the same Democratic leadership, the same liars in mainstream media told you that Hillary Clinton couldn't lose, that you shouldn't go with a progressive, you shouldn't go with a populist, you shouldn't go with an outsider, you should go with the insider establishment guys that know everything.
[00:22:50]  And they know Hillary's going to win.
[00:22:51]  They know Kamo is going to win.
[00:22:53]  They know Joe Biden is the best Democrat.
[00:22:55]  Nonsense.
[00:22:56]  We lifted the curtain.
[00:22:57]  We saw the all-powerful wizard and we know that the wizard is full of crap.
[00:23:01]  So please spare us this apologist nonsense for the great man of Joe Biden.
[00:23:08]  No, he's a normal, egotistical politician.
[00:23:12]  The second possibility is yes, they tested him and yes, they hit it.
[00:23:16]  Would that really be surprising, given that how much the Biden administration hit his mental decline if they hit his physical decline?
[00:23:23]  Of course that wouldn't be surprising.
[00:23:25]  Let's stop pretending to be shocked by it.
[00:23:28]  Okay, Natalie.
[00:23:29]  Piers, if you'd give me a chance, he just disagreed pretty strongly with something, and I really think that he needs to study foreign policy more carefully.
[00:23:38]  I don't remember my colleague's name.
[00:23:39]  Oh, yeah.
[00:23:40]  I mean, I study foreign policy for a living, and I know the positions of all the various Democrats.
[00:23:47]  And I've watched over 20 years how Democrats respond to Vladimir Putin.
[00:23:52]  The last Democratic president, President Obama, didn't respond to the war in Ukraine.
[00:23:56]  And Joe Biden was advocating for it privately.
[00:24:00]  There are many Democrats who didn't see this as a big an issue as Joe Biden did.
[00:24:05]  We can, you know, all the rest of the stuff is about politics and establishment and anti-establishment stuff.
[00:24:10]  I don't know about any of that.
[00:24:11]  What I know is the foreign policy business.
[00:24:14]  And I can say with confidence that of the various leaders of the Democratic Party, Joe Biden was the one most likely to respond in the most aggressive way to Vladimir Putin's evasion.
[00:24:26]  I say that with great confidence, despite what your colleagues suggested.
[00:24:30]  Okay.
[00:24:31]  Natalie, before I get your general response to this story, I've been really shocked.
[00:24:38]  I went on X last night because within minutes of me posting the news with the statement from the Biden family, which was, you know, indisputable in what it said.
[00:24:48]  This was stage five, very aggressive prostate cancer that are metastasized into his bones.
[00:24:55]  If you're in your 80s and that has happened to you, you are fighting for your life.
[00:24:59]  And, you know, it doesn't need an expert to tell you you're in very serious danger of losing your life.
[00:25:05]  And in that moment, it just seemed to me the only humane response is to wish him well.
[00:25:10]  You can have all your other debates and arguments, you know, over the next few days as people have been doing the last few months.
[00:25:15]  That's fine.
[00:25:16]  But at least give the man 24 hours of decency and humanity, as I would expect if it was Donald Trump or if it was anybody else.
[00:25:25]  But I was struck by the venom that poured out.
[00:25:29]  And I then posted again, said, look, you know, whatever your politics here, come on, this is sick.
[00:25:35]  What is going on?
[00:25:36]  Just show some respect to this guy.
[00:25:38]  50 years of public service, fighting for his life.
[00:25:40]  But no, that just made it worse.
[00:25:42]  There was a tidal wave of filth on social media.
[00:25:47]  Mockery, glee, ecstasy, willing him to die quickly.
[00:25:53]  Not a shred of humanity pervading so much of what I saw.
[00:25:58]  And I wasn't just disappointed or angry about it.
[00:26:01]  I was genuinely shocked.
[00:26:03]  How has it come to this?
[00:26:05]  How has our society come to this place where partisan politics is so tribal, so bitter, so uncompromising, that actually even when a man in his 80s is fighting for his life from a deadly cancer, that that is a moment to mock him and be gleeful and hope he dies.
[00:26:27]  Yeah, it's gross.
[00:26:28]  I mean, I obviously condemn that.
[00:26:30]  I'm sure everyone on the panel agrees with me, but I think let's not be myopic.
[00:26:34]  I think we see it certainly on both sides, right?
[00:26:36]  I think with President Trump's two assassination attempts, you have Comey posting the 8647 647 sets, stones.
[00:26:42]  It's a big cultural shift.
[00:26:44]  But, of course, of course.
[00:26:46]  But I think that that's sort of tangential to the issue, a separate thing.
[00:26:50]  I think the anger that is sort of seeding that is an outrage for respectfully people who will come on this program.
[00:26:57]  I would say that you should maybe study the prerequisites to be commander-in-chief or the president of the United States.
[00:27:03]  I think it's more than just a surge of adrenaline that maybe gives you a 50% chance to maybe make a good decision.
[00:27:09]  I'd also posit that maybe certain other presidential candidates, whether President Trump or Democrats, wouldn't have actually had to have stood up to Putin because he wouldn't have invaded like he didn't under President Trump, because they wouldn't have had someone who was essentially dead, either from a mental cognizance perspective or even just an actual health standard.
[00:27:29]  And I think if you look at the legacy of the Biden regime, it's cover-up after cover-up after cover-up.
[00:27:34]  And I'm so glad that Anthony Blinken is very adamant that Joe Biden had a really good sense of geopolitics.
[00:27:40]  I really disagree with that.
[00:27:42]  I think that's just a continuation of this cover-up.
[00:27:45]  I think you should have been asking Anthony Blinken who was actually running the show.
[00:27:50]  And it's really quite interesting.
[00:27:51]  You think he had such a great geopolitical track record.
[00:27:54]  I think the 13 family or the 13 families of the people in Afghanistan who died because of Joe Biden's botched withdrawal would certainly beg to differ with you on that.
[00:28:03]  Maybe he just needed some more adrenaline, but that's an absolutely asinine take.
[00:28:07]  The guy was obviously sick from day one while he was in office.
[00:28:11]  And no offense, if they were going to lie about the mental health and the actual health of a president, so much so that even when he said on stage admitting to having cancer in 2022, they continued to cover it up.
[00:28:23]  They've called it a gaffe.
[00:28:24]  The media ran cover for him.
[00:28:25]  If they were willing to cover for something that huge, what else were they lying about?
[00:28:30]  So I don't take Anthony Blinken's word for one second that Joe Biden had a good sense of self when he was making decisions.
[00:28:37]  If he was willing to sit there as Secretary of State and say absolutely nothing for four years when Joe Biden was covering up truly one of the largest, I would say, health scandals, bigger than Watergate of our time.
[00:28:49]  Scott Horton, you know, like I said, I didn't book you to talk about the health of the ex-president.
[00:28:56]  However, it is a massive story, and it goes to the heart of, I guess, transparency of the president of the United States and how important that is to both American people, to the rest of the world, frankly, that there is an honesty at the heart of how a president's health is relayed to the nation and to the wider world.
[00:29:15]  What do you think we're dealing with here?
[00:29:17]  I mean, with Biden, does it stretch credulity that out of nowhere he suddenly got this very late stage aggressive prostate cancer that's metastasized to his bones?
[00:29:28]  Or should we take it at face value?
[00:29:32]  Well, I don't take anything they say at face value, but I wouldn't want to speculate about the progress of his cancer or who knew what when or anything like that.
[00:29:42]  I would add, in agreement with the previous speaker, there, that I too am shocked that Anthony Blinken, the Secretary of State, agrees with the decisions that he convinced Joe Biden to go along with for four years.
[00:29:54]  I don't know how that's supposed to be like a big, you know, authoritative confirmation of his greatness.
[00:30:02]  Also, Mr. Rubin speaks as though when Joe Biden took office, the absolute catastrophe in Gaza and Ukraine were already going on, and then he stood up to the bad guys.
[00:30:13]  But of course, both of these catastrophes took place on his watch.
[00:30:17]  Ukraine happened after a year of his complete failed diplomacy, where he did not achieve an end to the civil war in the East.
[00:30:26]  His own men, Derek Charlotte from the State Department, admitted that they absolutely refused to discuss NATO membership for Ukraine with the Russians in any context whatsoever.
[00:30:36]  Joe Biden promised, yeah, we will have talks over missiles and we'll make a deal where we sign and promise not to put missiles in Harkiv.
[00:30:44]  But then they refused to hold those conversations whatsoever.
[00:30:47]  They never followed up on that at all.
[00:30:49]  And then they continued to just make threats.
[00:30:52]  No, we promise we absolutely will bring Ukraine into NATO one day.
[00:30:56]  We promise we will build up their military force.
[00:30:59]  And as the CIA even told Yahoo News' Zach Dorfman, they were recommending to Biden, or at least the agents in Ukraine were recommending to their bosses to recommend to Biden to cool it with the arms shipments because you're not deterring them.
[00:31:16]  You're provoking them into action, making them feel like they better do it now, not later.
[00:31:22]  Yeah, you scoff at the CIA officers on the ground whose words actually proved completely prophetic and were fulfilled within weeks of them saying so.
[00:31:32]  And meanwhile, hundreds of thousands of people have been killed.
[00:31:35]  The New York Times ran a big exit piece on Anthony Blinken.
[00:31:40]  They called him the Secretary of War.
[00:31:42]  It's based on interviews of him.
[00:31:44]  And they talked about how after Ukraine's biggest success in September of 22, the military, the U.S. military, was recommending that we go to the table now while the Ukrainians are only this far behind and it doesn't get too much worse.
[00:31:59]  And it was Antony Blinken and the State Department weenies like Mr. Rubin who overruled General Milley and the chairman of the George Chiefs of Staff and their advice to wrap up the war.
[00:32:11]  And now hundreds of thousands of names have been curious.
[00:32:15]  I thought I was on a serious program.
[00:32:18]  You're on a serious program.
[00:32:19]  And you can respond to it.
[00:32:20]  We don't call each other weenies on a serious program.
[00:32:23]  Okay.
[00:32:26]  That's what the military manager called me that well.
[00:32:30]  That's what you're heard from me.
[00:32:32]  It's very juvenile.
[00:32:34]  So let me wish.
[00:32:35]  Hey, I'm Caitlin Becker, the host of the New York Postcast, and I've got exactly what you need to start your weekdays.
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[00:33:05]  Respond to your substance, which is the part that's interesting.
[00:33:08]  Your basic point, your basic point is that Ukraine should have been disarmed in advance of Putin's threats.
[00:33:15]  And by us giving them weapons, the few weapons they needed to defend themselves against Putin's invasion, we provoked the invasion.
[00:33:22]  It's NATO expansion provoking the invasion.
[00:33:24]  It's the United States diplomacy provoking the invasion.
[00:33:27]  Nobody seems to blame.
[00:33:30]  Nobody seems to blame the person who decided to invade his neighbor, who made a decision to invade his neighbor and used hundreds and thousands of troops to invade their neighbor.
[00:33:40]  And your idea that because we sent a few weapons over, we provoked him is the ultimate in appeasement.
[00:33:47]  What you want to do in a situation like this is hopefully give your ally a chance to defend itself.
[00:33:54]  And without the minimal weapons that he got, both from Trump and from Biden, I don't think the Ukrainians would have been able to held off this Russian offensive.
[00:34:02]  And there's not some magic solution to, and that's a Dremo vision.
[00:34:07]  It wouldn't have happened.
[00:34:08]  Putin decided to go to war, and we had to confront that.
[00:34:12]  And we were able to confront it, and we gathered the world together to confront it.
[00:34:17]  Unfortunately, the current president has a different approach, and maybe he'll get a deal, and that'll be wonderful.
[00:34:22]  But I don't think so.
[00:34:24]  I think Vladimir Putin has made a decision to run a war economy.
[00:34:28]  And the idea that we provoked Putin into invading Ukraine is an absurdity.
[00:34:34]  This is a man who made a decision to invade his neighbor with hundreds of thousands of troops.
[00:34:39]  He wasn't provoked into it.
[00:34:40]  There was no threat in him.
[00:34:44]  He made a decision to invade his neighbor, and we should just confront that and figure out how to respond instead of coming up with loony ideas, loony, not weeny, loony ideas for why this war started.
[00:34:56]  It started because Vladimir Putin invaded his neighbor.

=== Gaza Journalist Access Denied (11:08) ===

[00:34:59]  Well, just to be clear, James, we're going to be...
[00:35:02]  Hang on, Just to be clear, when you throw around the word like loony, James, I have to remind you we are a serious program.
[00:35:10]  So please don't use that.
[00:35:12]  Weenies and loonies, they're in the same category.
[00:35:16]  Let me bring in Doran just quickly, because you've written this book, When the Stones Speak.
[00:35:22]  You're an IDF reservist.
[00:35:25]  I got very angry over the last three or four days about what I've been seeing happening in Israel.
[00:35:32]  I'll tell you why.
[00:35:34]  Not because I don't think Israel had an absolute right and duty to defend itself after October the 7th.
[00:35:39]  Of course they did.
[00:35:40]  3,000 terrorists poured over their border in three waves, murdering 1,200 people, kidnapping 255 or whatever it was, including grandmothers, babies, the butchery, the barbarism, all of it was so heinous.
[00:35:56]  7,000 more wounded.
[00:35:58]  This was a scale of terror attack we have rarely seen in modern times.
[00:36:02]  Of course Israel had to respond.
[00:36:04]  Of course it was going to respond with force.
[00:36:06]  Hamas knew that.
[00:36:07]  Everybody knew that.
[00:36:08]  And the question I kept asking for the first few weeks and months was, well, what is a proportionate response?
[00:36:14]  I didn't know the answer.
[00:36:15]  I genuinely did not know the answer to what was a proportionate response.
[00:36:20]  But what I feel now is that whatever the answer, this has gone way beyond a proportionate response.
[00:36:27]  And that there are clearly people in the Netanyahu government, perhaps including him, who just want to just keep pounding away here because they don't really have any plan for what happens when they stop pounding.
[00:36:40]  In Netanyahu's case, he faces corruption trials when he comes out of this war, which is no incentive to end a war by any yardstick.
[00:36:49]  But more importantly, it's clear from all the intelligence the Americans have been receiving and all the reports we've been seeing, there's no real evidence that Hamas has been neutralized at all with this relentless bombardment.
[00:37:01]  We've now had six times the tonnage of bombs that you saw in Nagasaki and Hiroshima combined on a space which is, I think, a third the size of those two cities.
[00:37:13]  And where have we got?
[00:37:15]  We've got to a place where Hamas clearly still are there.
[00:37:20]  They're clearly still holding these hostages and Israel can't get them to release them, which suggests to me that Hamas's power base is still pretty much intact or that process would have happened by now.
[00:37:32]  And I don't see any end game or plan here other than increasingly, it seems that there are people on that government who just want to get rid of all the Palestinians, who want to just take over Gaza and that will be it.
[00:37:43]  And that is actually the very genocide that so many on the pro-Israeli side keep recoiling at hearing that word because they say it's not genocide.
[00:37:52]  Well, if you get rid of a whole people based on their ethnicity from an expansive land that is theirs, where they've been living, what else do you call it?
[00:38:02]  So I got angry and then everyone got angry at me because everyone gets angry about everything you ever say about this war.
[00:38:08]  But from where you sit, are you comfortable?
[00:38:11]  Are you comfortable as an IDF reservist with what is now going on with hundreds being killed every day, so many women, so many children in particular?
[00:38:21]  Are you comfortable that there is a strategy here that is either working or is not just turning Israel slowly but surely into a global pariah?
[00:38:33]  Pierce, I don't think that anyone in Israel has been comfortable since October 7th.
[00:38:38]  You're asking me, what is a proportional response to 1,200 people being slaughtered, raped, babies being burnt, 250 people which have been taken captive as hostages, 57 of which are still in the Gaza tunnels.
[00:38:53]  I'll tell you, I think that the word is a smokescreen.
[00:38:55]  Hamas went after civilians, and you're asking me what's a proportional response.
[00:38:59]  Israel's response has been never to go after a civilian, only to go after Hamas terrorists.
[00:39:05]  Now, I've been in Gaza.
[00:39:06]  I've been in Gaza four different times.
[00:39:08]  And they killed tens of thousands of civilians.
[00:39:09]  When you're in Gaza, they've killed tens of thousands of people.
[00:39:13]  What you see, just one second, what you see when you're on Gaza is you're being fired on from parks, from schools, from apartment buildings.
[00:39:22]  Hamas fighters are popping underground every Hamas tunnel.
[00:39:25]  I don't know if you've been on Gaza, Pierce.
[00:39:26]  No, you know why I haven't been in Gaza.
[00:39:28]  Durin, Doran, Duran.
[00:39:30]  Hang on, hang on.
[00:39:30]  You ask a question.
[00:39:31]  You can go into Gaza Pierce.
[00:39:32]  You've got 10 million people that have entered Gaza.
[00:39:35]  But here's the key point, Duran.
[00:39:37]  International journalists have not been allowed into Gaza to independently verify any of this.
[00:39:42]  That's been another massive problem I've had with this.
[00:39:45]  If Israel has nothing to hide, they should let it go.
[00:39:47]  Pierce, have you ever been in the middle of the morning?
[00:39:48]  Hang on, hang on.
[00:39:49]  Let me finish.
[00:39:49]  Pierce.
[00:39:50]  Hang on.
[00:39:50]  Let me finish my question.
[00:39:52]  Let me finish my question.
[00:39:55]  You had 20 years to go to Gaza.
[00:39:56]  Let me finish my question.
[00:39:58]  October 7th.
[00:39:59]  If all of a sudden you want to work on it.
[00:40:00]  Doran, I'm going to finish my question, whether you let me or not.
[00:40:03]  Okay.
[00:40:03]  And my question is this.
[00:40:05]  If Israel has nothing to hide, why are they not letting international journalists go in?
[00:40:11]  Tell me.
[00:40:12]  Why don't they let them all in?
[00:40:14]  So that what you're telling us can actually be independently verified.
[00:40:20]  Pierce, Israel is trying to deal with a terrorist regime that is popping out of tunnels, popping out of buildings, is everywhere.
[00:40:28]  And you want us to unleash a flood of reporters into the area.
[00:40:32]  When a Hamas reporter was killed because he was Hamas, the entire world media blamed Israel for killing a reporter.
[00:40:39]  And he was a member of Hamas, a verified member of Hamas that filmed himself as part of October 7th.
[00:40:44]  So you want us to unleash it.
[00:40:45]  You're not banning the international media.
[00:40:47]  You have to have concerns for this.
[00:40:49]  One second, Pierce.
[00:40:50]  Don't insult my intelligence.
[00:40:52]  Don't ask me about it.
[00:40:53]  Don't insult my intelligence.
[00:40:55]  Don't insult my intelligence.
[00:40:57]  Israel is not banning international media out of concern for our safety.
[00:41:00]  I feel like I have an opportunity to actually answer.
[00:41:02]  You're banning us out of concern for our safety.
[00:41:05]  You're banning us because you don't want the international media to witness what you're doing on the ground for reasons that I don't know.
[00:41:11]  But the best way to remove any suspicion about what you're doing is to let the international media in.
[00:41:16]  They will make their own risk assessment.
[00:41:18]  It will be down to their security teams as it is in any war zone.
[00:41:22]  But the idea that somehow Gaza should be the only war zone in the world where you don't let international journalists go and operate and do their job, and you can do that, Israel, because you basically control all the access to Gaza, I'm afraid is for the birds.
[00:41:36]  You should just let the media in.
[00:41:38]  Then everything you're saying can be verified as true or untrue.
[00:41:42]  And the fact that Israel won't allow it is sticking in my gullet.
[00:41:46]  And when it's pretended to be out of some quaint concern for my personal safety, I'm afraid it's laughable.
[00:41:55]  Yeah, you're still more journalists than reporters combined.
[00:41:59]  Hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of times.
[00:42:02]  I myself have taken reporters into Gaza in armored vehicles, let them walk around.
[00:42:07]  Palestinians on Gaza take pictures with their phones every single day.
[00:42:10]  All you have to do is look at Telegram, look at X, look at every single social media channel.
[00:42:15]  If you think that the suffering of Gazans is not displayed, you're wrong.
[00:42:18]  What is not being presented, and this lies at the very source of your question, is why is there so much suffering in Gaza?
[00:42:24]  We have brought 1.8 million tons of food into Gaza.
[00:42:29]  That is a ton of food, 2,000 pounds of food per person in Gaza.
[00:42:35]  Why are there people in Gaza that are hungry right now is because all that food that goes into Gaza is taken by UNRWA, all the international agencies that fill their coffers with that food by Hamas, who steals that food from the Gaza people.
[00:42:48]  And now that Israel actually has a plan to go into Gaza, take over the Gaza Strip, enable very clear distribution points.
[00:42:56]  You should be cheering, Pierce.
[00:42:58]  Everyone in this country is a good idea.
[00:42:58]  I don't cheer an 11-week block-bated food to enable genocide and should be able to bring the food to the people who need it.
[00:43:07]  But instead, what you are doing and what Jenk is doing is you are proposing.
[00:43:11]  You're starving them, you sicko.
[00:43:13]  Did you not see, did you not see Ode Rabi?
[00:43:16]  Do you know who that is, Jenk?
[00:43:17]  Jenk, who's Ode Rebi?
[00:43:19]  Do you know Odeh Rebi?
[00:43:21]  Did you speak about Ode Rabi, Jenk?
[00:43:23]  I didn't see him on your social media.
[00:43:25]  Ode Rebi.
[00:43:25]  Listen, here's what I'm talking about.
[00:43:27]  The fact that your government is starving 2.2 million people right now.
[00:43:31]  You're starving the baby.
[00:43:32]  These are torturing the Gaza people.
[00:43:36]  10,000 people.
[00:43:37]  You're under terrorists.
[00:43:38]  Your government is starving.
[00:43:40]  They're trying to kill 2 million people right now.
[00:43:42]  His parents received his body's new shirt around his neck and his underwear.
[00:43:47]  And those people five people killed and does not begin on you.
[00:43:52]  You know who's the worst terrorist in the world Hamas in power.
[00:43:56]  And the reason is, is you've never been on the ground.
[00:44:00]  You know why I yell in this program?
[00:44:02]  I skymind that non-stop power.
[00:44:04]  Nothing else about Israel.
[00:44:08]  You're going to talk over everyone else.
[00:44:09]  I'm going to talk over you.
[00:44:11]  You've starved more people than anyone else in the world.
[00:44:14]  Israel has killed more journalists than anyone else in the world.
[00:44:18]  You're not going to talk over me.
[00:44:19]  You've got these people that are.
[00:44:20]  This is coming from Hamas did not make that talk.
[00:44:23]  Hamas.
[00:44:24]  Israel made that decision.
[00:44:26]  But whenever you start talking about Israel and doesn't respect women, never stop talking.
[00:44:33]  Israeli propaganda, and I'm sick of it.
[00:44:35]  Get him to shut up for a second and let other people talk.
[00:44:39]  All they do is Israeli propaganda.
[00:44:41]  It is a fact that they are starving the children of Gaza right now.
[00:44:45]  It is a fact that they have killed over 53,000 people.
[00:44:48]  And he says, oh, 1,200 is terrible.
[00:44:50]  It is terrible what Hamas did on October 7th.
[00:44:53]  But to say that 1,200 people killed children killed this very day.
[00:44:59]  But to say that 53,000 people killed are not terrorists.
[00:45:03]  And 12,000 babies are not terrible.
[00:45:08]  It shows what a monster terrorist you are.
[00:45:10]  Go ahead and register your propaganda.
[00:45:13]  You are the sick evil enemy of the Gaza people.
[00:45:16]  You are the enemy of America.
[00:45:17]  You are the enemy of America, okay?
[00:45:20]  You got up to fight Iraq.
[00:45:21]  You caused yourself a long war.
[00:45:23]  You've taken $300 million a young man.
[00:45:25]  You starved children to death.
[00:45:27]  You are the worst terrorist of my lifetime.
[00:45:29]  You led 1 million Armenians.
[00:45:31]  I recognize the Armenian genocide.
[00:45:33]  In fact, Armenian genocide, you are the personal.
[00:45:36]  You know, the Armenian genocide should be exactly what Israel is doing for the Americans now.
[00:45:41]  Dave is cleansing, driving them.
[00:45:43]  I get a change in the world.
[00:45:44]  David Dubai is the American.
[00:45:45]  Israel is the leader of terrorist organization calling the world.
[00:45:48]  All right.
[00:45:49]  All right, that's enough.
[00:45:50]  That's enough.
[00:45:50]  It's fully culpable.
[00:45:52]  All right, listen.
[00:45:52]  When you both shout, no one can hear a word.
[00:45:54]  Natalie, I know.
[00:45:56]  That's why he does it, Piers.
[00:46:00]  Jake, you gave as good as you go.
[00:46:04]  Listen, I'm going to bring you up here on this.
[00:46:07]  Jamie has left us.

=== Accords Blocked by Starvation (15:39) ===

[00:46:08]  I'm not quite sure.
[00:46:09]  Maybe he just, his eardrums burst.
[00:46:11]  But Natalie, let me just ask you about Israel and what is happening here.
[00:46:16]  It seems to me, whatever side of the fence you've been on on this, there's got to be a moment of reckoning here.
[00:46:23]  I watched, I read a very good column by Matthew Saeed in the Sunday Times here in London yesterday, in which he just said, look, it's time for Israelis and Jewish people everywhere to look at themselves on this and say, what is happening here?
[00:46:37]  Is Israel actually winning any war here?
[00:46:40]  Is it making more enemies by the day with this constant slaughter of so many civilians on the ground?
[00:46:47]  Does Netanyahu have any incentive because of all the legal issues he faces to end this?
[00:46:53]  Does he have control over his government?
[00:46:55]  We know he did a dirty deal to get back into power with some real right-wing headbangers who clearly speak in genocidal language, which is suggesting their motivation is indeed a form of genocide there.
[00:47:08]  But I just don't see what the end game is here.
[00:47:10]  I don't understand how this ends without just constant, constant, more loss of life, particularly civilian life.
[00:47:17]  Do you?
[00:47:20]  Yeah, I mean, I think it's led to a fatigue, but you sort of see that shift in rhetoric coming from President Trump, I think particularly on his most recent trip or even the deals, right?
[00:47:28]  Lifting sanctions on Syria, talking about what's been going on in Gaza using rhetoric and diction that is something that's not necessarily typical, especially for Republicans, but for just most American presidents.
[00:47:40]  And I think you even see it reflected in the shifting of opinion polling, particularly among younger Americans.
[00:47:45]  It really seems to be only sort of the holdout, maybe more boomer GOP types that are still steadfastly in support of Israel.
[00:47:52]  And the intricacies of that region aside, like you always say, it's a lose-lose.
[00:47:57]  I think what it is, is it's a fundamental reorientation of priorities.
[00:48:01]  And I think the MA movement, right, the people who would rather be talking about the big, beautiful bill of Medicaid stuff that directs them impactly, I'm not being negligent to human rights issues going on, but I think that one of the core tenets of the MAGA movement is really looking at these events as to how they impact the United States.
[00:48:18]  So the idea that one would be pro-Israel or anti-Israel is too reductive.
[00:48:22]  And frankly, that's a paradigm that I don't even necessarily buy into because I'm pro-America and I would put America first.
[00:48:28]  And I don't want to see massive floods of refugees into, frankly, anywhere in the Middle East, let alone the West, certainly not the United States.
[00:48:35]  And I think that you're just creating the potential for that.
[00:48:37]  I'm glad we have President Trump in office to prevent that.
[00:48:40]  I am not for sending foreign aid really anywhere.
[00:48:43]  I don't think we should be arming Israel to the level that we are, which is maybe heresy or heretical for being a supporter of President Trump and a Republican.
[00:48:52]  But on the other hand, Hamas is a terrorist state and Israel has the right to defend itself.
[00:48:56]  I just don't think that the United States should necessarily be supporting them at the rate that we do.
[00:48:59]  Right.
[00:48:59]  I mean, Scott Horton, the backdrop to all this, we've just seen...
[00:49:02]  Zero, they should get zero.
[00:49:03]  I'll come to you, Check in a second.
[00:49:05]  Scott, the Trump trip to the Middle East, I was in Qatar for that state dinner, and what was palpable was how popular Trump is in the Middle East now, whether he was in Saudi Arabia making a pretty transformative speech about it's time for the neocons in the West to keep their big noses and their bombs out of the Middle East and let Middle East countries do what they've been doing very successfully,
[00:49:30]  which is building up massive national brands now, whether it's Saudi Arabia, Qatar, the UAE, whatever.
[00:49:36]  You get a sense of a very dynamic, very fast-evolving society in all of these countries, albeit from a pretty low base, let's be clear.
[00:49:46]  But not a low base they try and deny.
[00:49:48]  Certainly, they didn't when I spoke to him about it.
[00:49:51]  But Trump, very popular there.
[00:49:53]  And at the same time, a report coming out that Hamas launched this attack on October the 7th, ostensibly because the Hamas leadership wanted to thwart and to stop any normalization of relations between Saudi Arabia and Israel.
[00:50:06]  They didn't want them being added to the Abraham Accords.
[00:50:09]  And that seems completely plausible to me that that was why they did this with the obvious tacit behind the scenes support of Iran.
[00:50:20]  But it seems to have had the opposite effect on the...
[00:50:22]  I'm going to respond to that.
[00:50:23]  No, in a moment, yeah.
[00:50:25]  I'm asking Scott first.
[00:50:26]  I'm asking Scott first.
[00:50:27]  It seems to me that Saudi Arabia is being very pragmatic and that they would like to ultimately join the Abraham Accords, I believe.
[00:50:37]  And that is why I think that this will have to be sorted, the situation in Gaza, probably driven by pressure from Trump and a coalition of Middle Eastern countries to get this stopped, because without the war being stopped, there can be no addition of Saudi Arabia to the Abraham Accords.
[00:50:53]  Am I mad or is that, do you think, what's going on here?
[00:50:58]  Well, I mean, yes, up until recent times, it went without saying it was widely understood that none of the Gulf Cooperation Council countries would normalize relations with Israel until the Palestinians got a deal.
[00:51:13]  And the Abraham Accords were the invention of Netanyahu and Jared Kushner, the last time Trump was president.
[00:51:20]  And the idea was the American people will pony up the money to get these states to go ahead and forsake the Palestinians and normalize with Israel anyway.
[00:51:29]  So Bahrain got F-16s, UAE got F-35s, Sudan got debt forgiveness, and Morocco got American recognition of their seizure of the northern half of Western Sahara.
[00:51:42]  And this was their bribes, their payoffs to go ahead and normalize with Israel.
[00:51:46]  And quite frankly, October 7th represents the complete failure of that Netanyahu doctrine.
[00:51:52]  You might remember that just, what, three weeks before the attack, Netanyahu gave a speech at the United Nations, and he always has a good visual aid, cartoon bomb or something.
[00:52:03]  In this case, it was his map of the new Middle East.
[00:52:06]  And he was mocking Shimon Perez, who had used this phrase in the attempted continuity from the Rabin doctrine, which was to make peace with the Palestinians and the Arab neighbors and turn against the peripheral states like Iran.
[00:52:22]  And he was saying, ha, see, I got away with making the new Middle East without giving anything to the Palestinians.
[00:52:28]  And to paraphrase him pretty tightly, he says to the Palestinians in the speech, no one's coming for you.
[00:52:35]  I got it.
[00:52:36]  No citizenship for you and no independence for you.
[00:52:39]  And I get to go ahead and have the whole Middle East, the whole, all the Arab Sunni states in my corner anyway.
[00:52:46]  You have been forsaken.
[00:52:48]  Ha ha ha.
[00:52:49]  And then it was three weeks later that they broke out of their pen and launched the October 7th attack in order to, exactly as you say, Pierce, to try to at least again make the issue controversial enough that it would prevent Saudi Arabia from signing on to the deal and forsaking their previous position of mandating or insisting on a Palestinian state first.
[00:53:12]  So that means then if Trump, and it's in the New York Times today, Trump himself says the Palestinians are starving under, it's been an 11-week full blockade since the last time they let any aid in.
[00:53:26]  Little Babies, it's on the front page of antiwar.com today.
[00:53:29]  Babies are literally starving to death there daily now, along with the bombing campaign.
[00:53:35]  If Trump wants a new Middle East where everybody can get along and trade and be prosperous at peace, he has to pick up the phone and tell Netanyahu to stop this right now.
[00:53:47]  And Piers Morgan, that is all it would take.
[00:53:49]  Yeah, and he's edging.
[00:53:51]  I would say he's edging closer, just as I think he's edging closer to running out of patience with Vladimir Putin.
[00:53:57]  Duran, you wanted to come in here?
[00:54:01]  Yeah, I think, first of all, if we want to save the babies of Gaza, which we do, the first thing we have to do is to get rid of Hamas.
[00:54:08]  Everything we're saying, ceasefires, why are they supporting Israel?
[00:54:11]  We should pull out.
[00:54:12]  Do we really want to leave 1.8 million people under the rule of a tyrannic terrorist regime that took dozens of billions of dollars paid for by U.S. taxpayers, by British taxpayers, in terms of building tunnels?
[00:54:27]  Let me just finish, please.
[00:54:28]  I'll let you one second.
[00:54:29]  Let me just finish.
[00:54:30]  I can, please.
[00:54:30]  Building tunnels, building a terror network.
[00:54:33]  To say that they came and attacked Israel because of the Abraham Accords, all one has to do is open up the 1988 Hamas Charter in which it calls Israelis Nazis.
[00:54:43]  It says every tree will call out, there's a Jew behind me, come and kill the Jews.
[00:54:48]  It talks incessantly about how the Jews started World War I, started World War II.
[00:54:52]  One month before October 7th, by the way, you had Mahmoud Abbas, and I'm reading right now on page 14 that says, they say Hitler killed the Jews.
[00:55:00]  This is my new book.
[00:55:01]  And the Europe hated the Jews because they were Jews.
[00:55:04]  Not true.
[00:55:05]  It was clearly explained.
[00:55:06]  They fought the Jews because of their money lending.
[00:55:10]  Mahmoud Abbas, the Palestinian authority head, is creating, propagating.
[00:55:15]  There was no Holocaust.
[00:55:17]  There's no Jewish Christian history in Israel.
[00:55:19]  They erased the people, and that is why they attacked on October 7th.
[00:55:23]  They need no reason, which is why they launched 30,000 rockets at Israel before October 7th and engaged in multi-border attacks before October 7th.
[00:55:31]  To say that this is because of the Abraham Accord is to simply, simply try to close.
[00:55:35]  Let me ask you a question before I go to check.
[00:55:38]  Doron, let me ask you a question.
[00:55:40]  This is the point called out.
[00:55:42]  Doron, on October the 7th, how many members of Hamas were there?
[00:55:48]  About 25,000.
[00:55:50]  Okay, so you've had nearly 20 months, one of the, well, the most superior military force in the whole Middle East.
[00:55:58]  You've had 20 months.
[00:56:00]  You've rained down bombs, which are three, five, I think it's five or I can't remember the exact statistic, multiple times the tonnage of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
[00:56:11]  You've rained it down on an area much smaller than those two cities combined.
[00:56:15]  And yet you still haven't eliminated Hamas.
[00:56:18]  You don't seem to be any nearer eliminating them because you still can't get the hostages back.
[00:56:24]  At some point, you have to admit, don't you, that you cannot do this.
[00:56:28]  This strategy is simply not working.
[00:56:31]  All you're doing is killing more and more civilians.
[00:56:34]  Where is the victory?
[00:56:35]  You have failed.
[00:56:37]  The most superior fighting force in the Middle East has failed to take out a ragbag collection of 25,000 terrorists.
[00:56:45]  How?
[00:56:45]  How have you failed so badly?
[00:56:47]  You failed by letting them into Israel October the 7th, and you've failed to eliminate them now.
[00:56:52]  And in fact, all the intelligence suggests that for everyone that you have killed in Hamas, they've been replaced by five more.
[00:56:58]  That's what I read at the weekend.
[00:57:00]  Now, maybe that's wrong.
[00:57:01]  Maybe that's poor information.
[00:57:05]  The entire command structure, including this last week, of Hamas has been destroyed.
[00:57:10]  Hamas right now is operating as individual units and hiding behind civilians in Gaza, hiding behind the hostages.
[00:57:17]  If we place as a goal, we haven't destroyed Hamas because we haven't gotten our hostages back.
[00:57:21]  The reason we haven't destroyed Hamas are two.
[00:57:23]  First of all, they're hiding behind our hostages, and most of us don't want to just blow right through our hostages to kill them.
[00:57:29]  That is the most cynical use of a terror group.
[00:57:31]  They took 250 people, raped and killed, and executed them in order to tell the IDF to keep away.
[00:57:38]  The other reason why this didn't finish so quickly, Pierce, is the root of this conversation.
[00:57:42]  We are trying to give food to the people of Gaza.
[00:57:44]  No foreign army in the history of the world has taken care of an enemy population.
[00:57:50]  The degree to which Israel is taken care of.
[00:57:53]  I was there on the humanitarian, I was there on the ground.
[00:57:56]  When was that?
[00:57:57]  It's been 11 years.
[00:58:00]  When were you in Gaza?
[00:58:02]  When were you in Gaza?
[00:58:02]  Scott, when were you in Gaza?
[00:58:04]  When were you there?
[00:58:05]  It's been 11 years.
[00:58:08]  I was there following on the ground at the humanitarian corridor, helping Gazans reach the humanitarian Amaswi zone.
[00:58:16]  And we are being fired on by Hamas.
[00:58:19]  We haven't destroyed them, is we are giving food to these people.
[00:58:23]  And we all know that 50% of that food goes to Hamas.
[00:58:26]  They recruit the new fighters, and therefore...
[00:58:28]  The new plan is, Pierce, let me just...
[00:58:30]  Wait a second.
[00:58:31]  The new plan is to go into Gaza, take over all of Gaza, and enable food centers and then destroy Hamas.
[00:58:38]  Again, I will say this is the only thing that will provide you.
[00:58:42]  It's a dangerous benefit for Israelis and the people in Gaza that are living under this tyrannical regime.
[00:58:47]  Let us destroy them.
[00:58:49]  Do not make any excuses.
[00:58:51]  All right, Cheng, you'll follow up.
[00:58:53]  Yeah, yeah.
[00:58:54]  Okay.
[00:58:55]  All right.
[00:58:56]  So, first of all, this guy does nothing but propaganda.
[00:58:59]  Almost everything he said was a lie.
[00:59:01]  They're not there to help the Gazas.
[00:59:03]  Does anyone on planet Earth believe this preposterous liar that the Israelis are trying to help the people of Gaza?
[00:59:10]  And he said there's 25,000 people in Hamas before the war started.
[00:59:14]  So there's 2.2 million people in Gaza overall.
[00:59:17]  All their homes have been destroyed.
[00:59:19]  All their hospitals, all their schools, everything has been razed and destroyed by Israel.
[00:59:24]  That is not helping them.
[00:59:25]  That is butchering them.
[00:59:26]  They've killed over 53,000 people at a bare minimum, injured over 120,000.
[00:59:32]  They've been starving them for 74 days.
[00:59:34]  They finally decided to let some food in now because of what Netanyahu called optics.
[00:59:39]  They were losing the PR war because people were literally seeing babies starve to death.
[00:59:43]  The moms had run out of breast milk because of malnutrition, and there's obviously no baby food because Israel, the monstrous terrorist state of Israel, did not allow any food in.
[00:59:54]  But there are good people in Israel, and there are good supporters of Israel that normally like Israel.
[00:59:58]  And by the way, I don't hate Israel normally.
[01:00:00]  I want it to be a safe haven, but I don't want it to murder and occupy and oppress the Palestinians.
[01:00:06]  David Duke wants Israel to be a safe haven.
[01:00:08]  And he just like Israel.
[01:00:12]  So Piers, you saw a strategy they do on your show where they won't use other people.
[01:00:16]  Right now, you start talking over them.
[01:00:18]  I'm sorry, strategy.
[01:00:21]  Doran, we're not going to be able to do that.
[01:00:23]  Doran, you're allowed to make your comments.
[01:00:25]  Let Cheng just finish his, please.
[01:00:28]  Okay, so if you actually care about Israel, you would not enable their worst instincts.
[01:00:34]  Rabbi Karib went, he's a member of Knesset, and he did a speech where he said, it is not in Jewish tradition that we starve babies.
[01:00:42]  And if you think it is, you're insulting Jewish tradition more than the worst enemy of Israel.
[01:00:47]  And the rabbi is right.
[01:00:48]  Rabbi Jacobs here in America said, what are we doing?
[01:00:51]  For God's sake, let them eat.
[01:00:53]  Look at the image that we're putting out there of Israel.
[01:00:56]  Now, don't, and this guy comes in here with a long history lesson.
[01:00:59]  Brother, we know that.
[01:01:01]  And what happened to the Jews throughout history is terrible and should never happen again.
[01:01:05]  But it should also never happen to the Palestinians or any other people again.
[01:01:09]  And so when you say, oh, well, then this happened.
[01:01:13]  It's okay.
[01:01:13]  What is me doing to Palestinians?
[01:01:15]  It is not a problem.
[01:01:17]  What are you doing to Palestinians?
[01:01:19]  Again, here he goes again.
[01:01:20]  Here he goes again.
[01:01:21]  Look, brother, a lot of people are allowed to say never again, but not you.
[01:01:25]  You're not allowed to say it because you're actively saying that you want to conquer the Palestinians.
[01:01:30]  You want to starve the Palestinians and you've murdered enough of their children.
[01:01:34]  For God's sake, let our people go.
[01:01:38]  What is wrong with you?
[01:01:39]  Israel has become what it most feared and despised.
[01:01:43]  It has become that.
[01:01:44]  And it breaks my heart.
[01:01:45]  It isn't just the Palestinians that are suffering.

=== State of Palestine Required (09:43) ===

[01:01:48]  The people of Israel, I'm asking you to interpret your husband.
[01:01:50]  You must be answering this.
[01:01:54]  Is this the kind of people you want to be that you starve babies to death and the whole world sees it with their own eyes?
[01:02:01]  Why do you want the whole world to hate Israel?
[01:02:04]  How does that help Israel?
[01:02:06]  And it doesn't help any of my Jewish friends destroying Hamas.
[01:02:09]  They do not do it in their name.
[01:02:13]  We're going to win it here.
[01:02:15]  We're going to end it here.
[01:02:17]  All I would say, Duron, you are not destroying Hamas.
[01:02:19]  There's no evidence you're destroying Hamas.
[01:02:21]  Every time they release a hostage, we're destroying Hamas.
[01:02:24]  Really?
[01:02:24]  If we have the green light and continued aid that reached the Hamas disappear in three months, we talked about President.
[01:02:31]  They're never going to kill enough Palestinians.
[01:02:33]  It's a satiated 250.
[01:02:35]  This has nothing to do with Hamas.
[01:02:37]  I just think this war strategy is a lot of our money.
[01:02:39]  There's two person in charge of the people.
[01:02:41]  We're going to leave it in them, and there is no punishment.
[01:02:45]  There is no actual evidence you are defeating.
[01:02:48]  There is no evidence you are defeating Hamas.
[01:02:50]  And that is my problem with what is going on.
[01:02:53]  If there was clear evidence you were winning, there is a you cannot destroy the Nazis.
[01:02:58]  We would be saluting the Third Reich today if we listened to those people.
[01:03:01]  You are trying to convince Israel and the world we can't destroy Hamas.
[01:03:03]  Well, you are wrong the Third Reich.
[01:03:06]  You are doing it.
[01:03:08]  You are wrong.
[01:03:08]  This propaganda is not calling you streets.
[01:03:13]  They are trying to tell you.
[01:03:14]  Don't call anyone the Hamas when you're starving babies.
[01:03:19]  You know more of a terrorist.
[01:03:20]  Have you no decency?
[01:03:22]  Have you no decency?
[01:03:24]  Speak for Jewish people.
[01:03:26]  I don't expect to speak for all of the people who hear the voice.
[01:03:29]  But you got yourself a disgusting person.
[01:03:34]  Pro-genocide.
[01:03:36]  Okay, that's what you are.
[01:03:38]  We're going to leave it there.
[01:03:39]  Disgusting.
[01:03:40]  We're going to leave it there.
[01:03:41]  Thank you all very much.
[01:03:42]  I appreciate it.
[01:03:44]  Well, a huge thanks.
[01:03:45]  Hey, Mike Baker here, host of the President's Daily Brief podcast.
[01:03:48]  If you want straight talk on national security, foreign policy, and the biggest global stories going on of the day, this is the show for you.
[01:03:55]  We publish twice a day, Monday through Friday, once in the morning, again in the afternoon, and on the weekend, we go longer with the PDB Situation Report with excellent guests, including national security insiders and foreign policy experts.
[01:04:08]  Check us out on Spotify, Apple, or wherever you get your podcasts.
[01:04:11]  Also, on our YouTube channel at President's Daily Brief.
[01:04:15]  To my panel, and joining me now is the public policy analyst and professor at Columbia University, Jeffrey Sachs.
[01:04:20]  Jeffrey, welcome back to Uncensored.
[01:04:22]  I hope we can have a slightly more civil discussion than the one that just erupted there.
[01:04:26]  Although I understand passions are running very high.
[01:04:30]  I want to talk to you about both Ukraine and Gaza because Trump has made it his mission to try and end both of these wars.
[01:04:37]  And I want to get inside your formidable brain as to where you think we are in his ability to do this.
[01:04:45]  First of all, on Israel, it just seems to me I don't see what the end game is here.
[01:04:51]  I don't see victory in the air for Israel.
[01:04:55]  I see them eroding global support rapidly with what is now happening.
[01:05:01]  How do you see it?
[01:05:02]  I agree with you.
[01:05:04]  What Israel, what this Israeli government is doing is catastrophic.
[01:05:09]  It is a genocide.
[01:05:11]  It's extraordinarily cruel.
[01:05:15]  It's extraordinarily vulgar, vicious, ugly.
[01:05:21]  It's disgusting beyond imagining.
[01:05:25]  And the problem is a very basic one, Pierce, which is that there are two peoples living in what used to be mandatory Palestine when Britain controlled Palestine after World War I. There are the Arab Muslims and there are the Jews.
[01:05:46]  And there need to be two states: one that is for the Jews and one that is for the Muslim Arabs.
[01:05:56]  The problem is that Netanyahu and his ilk and a lot of the political elite class for decades has said we will rule over everybody.
[01:06:12]  There will never be a Palestinian state.
[01:06:14]  There are many motivations for that view.
[01:06:19]  One is perhaps Netanyahu's view, this is the only way we can be secure.
[01:06:25]  The other, which is also very popular among parts of the Israeli government, is that God promised us everything.
[01:06:36]  These other people are on our land.
[01:06:39]  Now, whatever you say about it, there is no endgame of peace on the Netanyahu plan, because the Netanyahu plan, and this has been for decades, is to rule over the entire land.
[01:06:56]  And that means ruling over the Palestinians either in an apartheid state, in other words, oppressing the Palestinian people, or killing them, or expelling them in ethnic cleansing.
[01:07:11]  It's clear that all of those methods are deliberately being used now.
[01:07:16]  This constant shouting, Hamas, Hamas, Hamas, is not the point at all.
[01:07:22]  The point is that the political end game for Netanyahu, Smotrich, Ben-Gavir, the leaders of this government, is to rule over the entire territory of what was mandatory Palestine.
[01:07:39]  In other words, for Israel to control everything.
[01:07:42]  In fact, Netanyahu makes no bones about it.
[01:07:47]  He doesn't hide anything.
[01:07:48]  He says, we will control Gaza.
[01:07:50]  Well, what does that mean?
[01:07:52]  It either means extraordinary oppression, or it means ethnic cleansing, or it means mass murder.
[01:08:00]  Now, Israel is committing mass murder right now.
[01:08:03]  It is as simple as that.
[01:08:05]  And Israel says, well, it's about Hamas, but what is their end game that they offer?
[01:08:10]  They don't offer an endgame.
[01:08:12]  They are very clear on the inside.
[01:08:16]  I know what the end game is, because if you follow the Israeli politics, the end game is we control everything.
[01:08:26]  In fact, some of this extremist coalition is so vulgarly rapidly, violently extreme that their interpretation of, quote, God's promise to the Jewish people is parts of Egypt, parts of Syria, parts of Lebanon.
[01:08:49]  They have a very expansive view.
[01:08:51]  And indeed, Israel is in Syria now.
[01:08:55]  It is in Lebanon now.
[01:08:57]  And there are parts of this coalition that say, we're going to stay there.
[01:09:01]  So the problem, Piers, is a political problem.
[01:09:05]  You're completely right.
[01:09:07]  It cannot be solved by war or defeating Hamas.
[01:09:12]  That's not even their purpose.
[01:09:13]  Their purpose is to control all the land.
[01:09:17]  What they call greater Israel or Yisrael Hashlemah, mean the big expanse of Israel.
[01:09:26]  It's a madness.
[01:09:28]  It's a zealotry.
[01:09:29]  It's a cruelty.
[01:09:31]  It's nothing less than that.
[01:09:33]  And there is no peace possible until there is a state of Palestine living in peace on the internationally recognized borders, which are the borders of the 4th of June, 1967, alongside Israel.
[01:09:52]  What Netanyahu would never tell you, what this Doran Spielman who was shouting just a moment ago would never tell you, is that all of the Arab states have said, we will have peace when there is a state of Palestine.
[01:10:11]  What they won't tell you is that the entire 57-member Organization of Islamic Cooperation has said we will have peace with Israel when there is a state of Palestine as a UN member state properly constituted.
[01:10:31]  And in fact, and you know I hang out at the United Nations, more than 180 countries of the world say this with a population of more than 95% of the world population.
[01:10:46]  There is a madness, a sickness of the Israeli government, this extremist, cruel and zealot government.
[01:10:58]  But the tragic part is the United States and parts of Europe have backed up this vile behavior.
[01:11:08]  But I do think I've got to move on to Ukraine, but I do think on that, what's encouraging to me is that Trump didn't go and see Netanyahu on his trip to the Middle East.
[01:11:17]  He was extremely friendly with the Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia.
[01:11:22]  He knows what the criteria is if there's ever to be normalization of relations with Saudi and Israel.
[01:11:28]  And it is exactly as he've articulated.

=== Putin Peace Deal Running Out (02:36) ===

[01:11:31]  I agree with you completely.
[01:11:32]  And all Trump has to say to bring peace to win his Nobel Peace Prize is that there will be a state of Palestine without Hamas, demilitarized, living safely next to Israel.
[01:11:47]  I agree.
[01:11:47]  It's possible.
[01:11:48]  It's wise.
[01:11:48]  I agree, but I also think it works.
[01:11:50]  I think it might be edging nearer to that scenario than people think, because I think Trump's patience is running out with Netanyahu.
[01:11:57]  I think it's also running out pretty rapidly with Putin.
[01:12:00]  They're talking, actually, I think as we're talking now, and we'll get a read out of that just briefly, because we've run farther out of time, but just briefly, where do you think we are with Ukraine?
[01:12:11]  Is Putin actually wanting to do a deal, do you think?
[01:12:14]  Or is he, as some of the mood music came out of Russia suggests, is he just in this now for a limitless war economy?
[01:12:23]  No, not at all.
[01:12:25]  Putin wants a deal.
[01:12:26]  The deal was on the table on April 15th, 2022, about to be signed when Boris Johnson and Joe Biden told Zelensky, don't sign.
[01:12:38]  So there was a deal to be reached.
[01:12:39]  It has three components.
[01:12:41]  One is that Ukraine would be neutral, not a member of NATO.
[01:12:46]  Second is that there would be a territorial settlement.
[01:12:49]  I can come back to that.
[01:12:51]  And third is that there would be security guarantees for Ukraine.
[01:12:56]  Now, on each of these three points, not so much on the first, no NATO, this is fundamental.
[01:13:01]  This was the ultimate cause of the war, the neocon push of NATO enlargement.
[01:13:06]  But the other two issues are more controversial, of course.
[01:13:10]  Which land in which way, what kind of security arrangement.
[01:13:17]  But those were nearly negotiated, by the way, three years ago, and the U.S. and UK stopped it.
[01:13:24]  Putin wants those three terms.
[01:13:27]  Trump wants those three terms.
[01:13:29]  We're not so far from a peace.
[01:13:31]  So I think you're right.
[01:13:32]  Yeah, I think you're right.
[01:13:33]  Jeffrey, we've got to leave it there.
[01:13:34]  I'm sorry.
[01:13:36]  I've really enjoyed talking to you, as always.
[01:13:37]  Thank you very much for taking me to the next step.
[01:13:39]  Great to be with you.
[01:13:40]  I appreciate it.
[01:13:42]  Piers Morgan Arsenson is proudly independent.
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