Bill Maher and Piers Morgan dissect their fractured friendship with Larry David following the comedian's Hitler comparison of Donald Trump, which Maher deems insulting to Holocaust victims despite his own history of engaging with power. The conversation shifts to Pope Francis's death, revealing Maher's traumatic childhood where church became a symbol of fear rather than holiness after his father's political disagreements. Finally, Maher critiques the Democratic Party for losing government control and becoming extreme on transgender rights, arguing that nuance is essential while condemning the left's refusal to engage with the sitting president. Ultimately, the dialogue underscores the necessity of confronting uncomfortable truths across all political spectrums without pulling punches. [Automatically generated summary]
Transcriber: nvidia/parakeet-tdt-0.6b-v2, sat-12l-sm, and large-v3-turbo
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Larry David vs Bill Maher00:14:55
Larry David, because you're friends, aren't you?
Of course.
I mean, this wasn't, you know, my favorite moment of our friendship.
Larry David is using his pen to point out what he sees as Bill Maher's misguided meal with the president and his even more misguided monologue.
Just for starters, he laughs.
I've never seen him laugh in public.
I don't need to be lectured on who Donald Trump is.
Just the fact that I met him in person didn't change that.
He's Hitler.
He's a monster.
But I eventually concluded that hate gets us nowhere.
I knew I couldn't change his views, but we needed to talk to the other side, even if it had invaded and annexed other countries and committed unspeakable crimes against humanity.
And I realized I'd never seen him laugh before.
Suddenly, he seemed so human.
To use the Hitler thing, first of all, I just think it's kind of insulting to six million dead Jews, you know.
People are accusing him of moral cowardice and hypocrisy.
I don't want to make this constantly personal with me and Larry.
I mean, we might be friends again.
I don't know.
Here we are in Bill Maher's lair.
Yeah, lair.
The Club Random podcast, but it was your lair before that anyway.
It's still my lair.
I will always have a lair.
I'll give up everything before I give up my lair.
My evil lair where I plot evil things.
I'm evil.
I'm told that very famous people come here because they want to party in private, and this is the most safe place, safe space for celebrities who want to misbehave.
Is that true?
That's so true.
I mean, what happens at Club Random probably is still spilled on the floor.
And I mean that of everything.
No.
This was always the party house before it was the, you know, the...
I feel like I have a wonderful part.
I mean, to do a podcast has really been...
I mean, you were here.
Yeah.
How much fun is that just to get high and drunk with somebody?
I was one of your first guests on the podcast.
Yes, even if you're not participating and I don't really get drunk, but it's the only drinks I allow myself in the week.
And to get to know somebody, I mean, I knew you, but I didn't know you as well.
I feel like after that, I knew you so much better.
Yeah, I totally agree.
Because you kind of have to spend a couple of hours high to get to know somebody.
I loved Charlie Kirk when he did him last week when he said it was probably the nearest he's ever come to taking drugs.
Well, he is religious, and that is a drug.
Very religious.
Well, I was going to ask you about that because there's so much happening.
The Pope has died.
How do you actually feel about that?
Do you have any feelings about it?
You were raised a Catholic and around the age of 13, you kind of gave that up.
You found, discovered your mother was Jewish.
Your father, I think, stopped taking you to church because he didn't like what they were doing in various issues, I think in terms of birth control and stuff like that.
So that was your upbringing.
Did you feel anything when the Pope died?
Do you feel any feelings about that kind of thing as a former Catholic?
You're triggering me right now.
I'm still processing it, Pierce.
And I hate that you did this to me on camera.
And I have to go through my grief.
No, I mean, we were talking in our meeting today about what, should we talk about it on the show on Friday?
And I said, I think it's, you know, first of all, this, look, I know there are a billion Catholics and many of them do care.
I am one.
Oh, okay, great.
Just to look at FYI.
No, I'm glad you threw that marker down, bro.
But, you know, it's just more interesting to me who the next cross-dresser is going to be.
I mean, this guy was, you know, a mixed record, I think we would say.
Did he move the needle a little forward on liberalizing the church?
I mean, you mentioned my father.
By the way, for the people listening and might think, oh, he found out his mother was Jewish, then he quit the church.
Nothing to do with each other.
It's just that around that same time, I was about to receive my first communion.
No, no, first communion I did, my, what's the confirmation?
And that's why I don't have a middle name, because I never did it, because my father did pull out of the church at that time, just because he did not like the politics of Pope Paul.
He loved Pope John, who was the liberal pope, and liberalized a lot of things in the church.
And my father, a good Democratic liberal.
You know, it was a period after the Kennedy assassination.
The country was in a cynical mood.
And, you know, my father loved Kennedy and he loved the Pope.
And, you know, for an Irish Catholic, that was a great time.
And then Pope Paul came in, and, you know, he was kind of old school.
And I think we went back to, you know, turning our back on the congregation during the Mass, all that kind of stuff that Pope John was good at getting rid of.
You know, I think the folk masses started then, you know, a little more hip, you know, and to the people.
And my father would meet on Friday.
I think a lot of people around the world who couldn't afford it.
That was a big thing when they lifted that, so food wouldn't go bad.
Shit like that, practical stuff.
And my father just didn't like this Pope Paul to the point where he did, you know, stop us going to church, which was like the greatest day of my life.
I didn't care why it was.
You went every Sunday.
You were probably.
Every Sunday.
And catechism before church where you learn.
And then the training, the first communion, which traumatized me.
Did you ever go to confession?
Of course.
Of course you went to confession.
And my heart was beating out of my body.
First of all, it's just creepy.
It's in this little booth, and the guy's sort of on, you kind of can see him opaquely.
And you think you're seven years old.
You think he's got the power to do anything to you.
And like you would, what sins could you possibly commit at seven years old?
Well, in your case, I would think that you probably had found a way.
I don't know.
I was a scared little child.
I didn't know.
What sins could you do at seven?
I don't know.
I don't remember, that's a great question.
What sins, I would love to find deep in the recesses of my mind, what did I tell the priest?
Because I remember thinking, well, I can't go in there empty-handed.
That'll look suspicious.
So, you know, but I wasn't masturbating.
I didn't think about women.
Lying.
I don't remember even lying.
I don't know.
But my mother did tell me after my father died that up until the end of his life, he was a little conflicted about it.
You know, he was raised in a Catholic era where, first of all, just marrying a Jewish person was not cool.
And he did it anyway.
But it gets in your brain.
I mean, you ask me what I feel about the Pope, not too much, but when I do walk into a church, as I had the occasion to do when we were making religious, I still, it's not holiness I feel, it's fear.
The fear comes back to me.
Yes, it is triggering about fear because nuns were mean to me.
I mean, in catechism, priests, they didn't do anything to me, and I'm a little insulted.
I was a very cute kid, so their loss is all I can say, Piers.
Anyway.
I'm glad you stuck with it.
Somebody's got to say that.
When was the last time you went to confession?
Oh, confession.
Well, it must have been right before we quit when I was around 13.
Right.
So you've got...
Well.
Yeah, there could have been some sins then that would be more interesting.
I certainly was making a lot of people.
Well, I'm wondering if you went back to confession now on the full scale of post-13 sins to today.
If I went to confession now, odds are the priest is the one who had more to confess than me.
Let's be clear about that.
I've been in America for nearly four weeks on this trip.
And it seems to me only three people have been in the news that entire time.
Donald Trump, Elon Musk, and Bill Maher.
So my first question is, do you actually, do you like being the story rather than talking about the stories?
You know, it comes with the territory.
I never try to do that.
You know, it's a little more going on in the week.
But, you know, I've been through it enough that, you know, it's like it's actually flattering that people really think that I have somehow this importance, which I plainly don't.
It's ridiculous.
You know, I mean, I was offered a chance to actually sit down for an extended period of time in a private setting with the one person who has dominated all of our lives, whether you like him or not, for the last 10 years.
That's just not deniable.
I took it.
I can't imagine why anybody wouldn't take it.
That's how much.
Can I see the Trump adopters up close?
I'm going to get to see it.
And then, you know, the only thing that bugs me about is they don't give me proper credit for it.
And then I went back to my day job tearing him a new asshole and never stopped.
Never stopped before the dinner, never stopped after the dinner.
And during.
Because I said lots of things to him that you would think liberals would love that a guy said right to his face, you didn't win the election and birtherism was vile.
And, you know, what?
You know, I said to him, you're scaring people.
Why do you want to scare people so much?
So, like, I haven't changed at all.
And the fact that it made so many people hysterical, not most people, by the way.
I mean, I've certainly heard from Zillions.
And yeah, it's mostly very positive.
But yeah, there are some people, sometimes surprising people.
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Let's talk about Larry David.
Because you're friends, aren't you?
Were you friends?
Of course.
I mean, this wasn't my favorite moment of our friendship.
But, you know, look, I don't want to get too much into that, but I think the minute you play the Hitler card, you've lost the argument.
Yes.
And also, I must say, you know, come on, man.
Hitler, Nazis, nobody has been harder about and on, and more prescient, I must say, about Donald Trump than me.
I don't need to be lectured on who Donald Trump is.
Just the fact that I met him in person didn't change that.
And the fact that I reported honestly is not a sin either.
But, you know, to use the Hitler thing, first of all, I just think it's kind of insulting to six million dead Jews, you know, like that should kind of be in its own place in history.
And, you know, I know people can say, well, we're just comparing it in this way.
Well, it's an argument you kind of lost just to start.
It's just, it's just, look, maybe it's not completely logically fair, but Hitler has really kind of got to stay in his own place.
He is the goat of evil.
And we're just going to have to, I think, leave it like that.
So, you know, did I think that was appropriate?
No, but people are the right to this.
Did you know he was going to do it?
Of course not.
And people.
But how did you find out?
You know, somebody, my publicist said, this is going on today and you should know it.
And I was like, oh, okay.
You know, I mean...
Have you had any contact with him since?
No.
And that's okay.
Look, my whole reason to go into the White House, you know, I said it right at the beginning of the speech I made about it, was, you know, talking to Kid Rock right here.
And we were just like, there's got to be a better way than just hurling insults from 3,000 miles away.
I mean, maybe, you know, nothing will come of this, but what I know nothing will come from is pretending to ignore the person who has all the power.
Democrats have no power.
So to think that your method of running out of the room screaming, I'm not talking to you, maybe my thing has a 1% chance of succeeding.
Yours definitely has zero.
Zero.
And the final thing I'd say about the Larry David thing, because I read it, I was just like you, the moment I saw Hitler, okay, I get it.
It's that very tired old trope.
In fact, on your show once with Jim Jeffries, he told me to fuck off on your show.
When I said Trump is not Hitler, he hasn't been responsible for the death of 12 million people, including 6 million Jews in the Holocaust.
And ever since then, I've just thought every time I see it, this is a ridiculous analogy.
But the thing about people, the point people made on social media about Larry David was that he's been conspicuous by his silence since October the 7th, for example.
Not said a word.
You've been conspicuous by the support you've given Jewish people on your show.
And the state of Israel.
Yeah.
And also tearing a new asshole to the, what do they call them?
I used to call them that.
The Irony of Useful Idiots00:03:13
Useful idiots who take up the cause of some of the most illiberal people in the world.
And I'm talking about Hamas, you know, where they are now, you know, finally we see these protests from the people in Gaza against Hamas, because of course, when the useful idiots talk about oppressors, who's really the oppressor of the people of Hamas?
It's Hamas.
That's who puts their own people purposely in harm's way.
I mean, that's their whole strategy is like, well, we can't win this war militarily.
The way we can win this war is get enough of our own people killed on purpose so that world opinion, the useful idiots, will fall for that and blame Israel.
That is the whole strategy.
That is the strategy.
And some people are clear-eyed about that, and many people are not.
Do you think if you're going to write op-ed pieces for the New York Times attacking you for effectively sitting for dinner with Hitler or the new Hitler, you should perhaps be a little bit more vocal in the area we've just discussed about Israel and the Jewish people rather than have a deafening silence about that?
I mean, people are accusing him of moral cowardice and hypocrisy.
Well, I mean... Play the Hitler car, but won't actually talk about the ones who are probably the most similar to the thinking of Hitler, which is Hamas, who want to kill all the Jews.
I mean, you get my point.
That is an interesting irony.
Yes.
I mean, look, I don't want to make this constantly personal with me and Larry.
I mean, we might be friends again.
I don't know.
You know, I can be.
I mean, I can take a shot, and I also can absolutely take it when people disagree with me.
You know, that's not exactly the way I would have done it.
But, you know, again, the irony, let's go back to what my original theme was.
There's got to be a better way than hurling insults and not talking to people.
So, you know, if I could talk to Trump, I could talk to Larry David, too.
You know, I could talk to anybody.
I do it right here.
I will talk to almost anybody.
If he was sitting here now, what would you say to him?
I'd say Piers Morgan kept trying to ask about you, and it got over the top.
So, yeah, that's it.
Who wouldn't you want to have sitting here?
Well, there are people who are just, you know, pointless to the Klansmen or, you know, neo-Nazis or things like that that, you know, plainly are beyond the pale.
There's no argument.
The Kardashian?
They've been here.
Chris has been here.
You know, it's a case-by-case basis, but, you know, basically, you know, there are my one of the problems with the far left is that their ideas of purity are so unrealistic, if nothing else, in a country where, you know, Trump did win two elections.
Infiltrating the Other Side00:15:38
I mean, you just can't write off.
I know I saw it after the election.
There was a lot of people who, you know, some I know and some are friends, but their whole attitude was, we're a bad country.
That's what it is.
We have nothing to be sorry about with the way we ran our election.
It's just we thought the country was full of good people and they're actually full of really shitty, horrible people.
Deplorables, that whole thing, calling them and thinking of them as deplorable.
And I just don't think of a Trump voter as necessarily deplorable.
He could be, absolutely.
And so could someone who voted for Kamala Harris be deplorable in their own way.
Now, it's also not equivalent.
I make no fuzz on it all the time.
I'm very clear about it.
I think the right is more dangerous.
I think what's going on in this country is a shit show.
I mean, shout out to my writers because we have been as hard on Trump as we ever have.
The stuff we do, I mean, if you think I'm the guy to avoid because I'm not going to be hard on Trump now, you're missing actually still, excuse my immodesty, the sharpest, hardest, funniest taking down of Magan Nation and the right.
And, you know, the thing is, I'll also do it on the left when they're, but they're not in power now.
So they're not getting as much from me as they shouldn't.
Did you hear from Trump after your monologue or after the dinner?
I'm not going to comment on any of that.
I'll take that as a yes.
I mean, you know, I mean, we're not buddies.
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But would there be any reason why that would be a problem anyway?
I mean, I kept, here's, again, the thing.
I kept my honor.
I did not like go there and put on a hat and become MAGA and, you know, again, said things to him.
I'm not sure that people around him ever say to him.
Maybe they do.
I don't know.
But for a country, and I'm certainly one of these people who've been complaining that he's surrounded by ass kissers, I think it was kind of good to infiltrate someone from the other side in there.
You know, just to say these things, just to see if...
And, you know, I'm sorry it didn't come out the way you wanted, that he went apeshit about it.
But that's just who he is in private.
It's just different.
But I thought you were intellectually honest because you actually just said what happened and how you genuinely felt about him.
I've known him 20 years.
I've had him and stuff.
20 years.
Yeah.
I did the Celebrity Apprentice and I won that first season of it.
So after that, I then became one of his boardroom advisors on subsequent seasons and stuff.
Then I went to CNN and interviewed him maybe 30, 40 times in that period.
And so I got to know him very, very well.
And I still talk to him quite regularly.
And I have no problem, notwithstanding all that, in whacking him when I think he's wrong.
And I think he actually respects people to do that.
Yes, that's the impression I got.
What he doesn't like is people who he thinks whack him because they feel they ought to.
He doesn't mind if he thinks you genuinely believe he's wrong about something.
Yeah, and it doesn't change.
You know, again, you know, just don't conflate me being honest about what it was like to see him in private and criticize him privately and his reaction.
Don't conflate that with me condoning anything he does or has ever done because that wasn't part of the equation for me and it never will be.
And, you know, I don't know, you know, he said, you know, he certainly was happy to tell me that night that he had seen the show on the Friday before and thought I would be nicer because I was coming to the White House four days later, but you hit me hard.
And maybe he's saying that.
I don't know.
You know, I don't know if he watches every week.
He certainly used to tweet about it a lot before we met, and it was always horribly insulting.
And maybe that will become that way again.
And if it does, okay.
I kept my honor and I will keep my honor.
I'm going to call balls and strikes the way I see them everywhere.
And to some people, that makes me a hero.
And to the people I think are not leading us in the right direction, that makes me the villain.
But I'm going to keep on that path.
As difficult as it can be some weeks, I like where I am.
I've kept faith with the idea from the beginning that I would never pull a punch either side.
And yeah, you lose some fans.
But, you know, currently I am apparently the number one show on CNN.
I saw that.
And that's a rerun.
I thought that was just because I had been on it.
Oh, I was on your monologue show.
That's a rerun of the show we do on Friday in HBO, which is a more complete version of the show.
You should definitely get HBO and watch the real show.
But they show a version of it that's slightly less material because they have to fit in the commercials on CNN.
So, you know, that CNN audience used to be, and hopefully will be again.
I think they're making good strides, I hope, and I think in getting back to the middle.
That used to be where the great middle of the country just got its news without, you know, opinion.
It wasn't too slided either way.
There was Fox, there was MSNBC, but then if you wanted down the middle, you know, CNN.
Well, Ted Turner always said to me when I worked there, he said, never chase the ratings.
He said, the ratings will come to you if you'll seem to be the impartial one.
And I thought there's a lot of merit in that.
And I think that the more partisan CNN has been perceived to be, with some good reasons, some of the hosts they've had, I think that the more they've lost that reputation, the more difficult it's been for them.
And I must say this about them in that battle.
A lot of that they could not help because of who Trump is.
How do you stay impartial when he is telling a giant lie?
Then you have to say the president just lied.
And now you've lost 35%.
Well, I'll tell you, I think they're doing it well now.
This guy, Scott Jennings, who's sort of broken out at CNN, who's the kind of...
Lonely Scott?
Lonely Scott.
So he's the sort of lone Republican voice all the time on their panels.
But he takes on like three or four of them.
And he gives it full barrels, often tries to defend the indefensible, but does it very eloquently?
And it was interesting what he said about what happened with the Larry David thing, not to labor the point, but just on a general point.
He said he thought it was an attempt to stop other people on the left doing the same, that it was actually a sort of passive act of intimidation.
My question is, okay, where does it end?
So a comedian, he's not allowed to talk to Trump.
Is that include now senators?
Governors?
Because I'm just a comedian.
That's ridiculous.
But that's where I want to have what I want to have answered is how far does this go of who can't talk to Trump?
Because again, as I said last week on my show, he's there for almost another four years.
That's a long time to hold your breath.
That's a long time to hide behind your binders when you're in the Oval Office.
I mean, we can see you.
And, you know, I just don't think that that method is viable.
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You know, it's one thing not to talk to a foreign leader, but this is the American president.
That's ridiculous.
I know we don't like him and what he's doing.
It is a horrible shit show.
It's never been worse.
I say it every week.
I do a whole show of jokes about it.
But it is the American president.
It would be different if, for example, we have the hotline to the Kremlin, right?
We put that in in the Kennedy era because we thought, you know what, as bad as the tension gets with Moscow, isn't it better just to have an open line?
And that's a foreign country, and we still didn't yank it out of the wall.
It would be easy when they, oh, just yank it out of the wall.
Let's not talk.
But we didn't even do it with Moscow.
But they want to do it with the American president.
And I know people are saying, he's not my president.
You know, both sides say that when they lose.
He's not my president.
Well, you know what?
I'm sorry, precious.
But we don't get our own personal president in America.
We have elections, and one guy wins, and he legit, I'm sorry, won twice.
And by the way, the time he didn't win, I said to his face, you didn't win.
You'd think a liberal would love that somebody did that to the president.
You'd think that would be like nothing for that?
Nothing?
I completely agree.
It's crazy.
I told you, Prime Minister, I'd said it on air.
I think you did exactly what you should have done.
And this idea that you can't is indicative of the mindset to me of why the left has got itself into such a problem.
And again.
Especially with Trump, because they don't seem to know how to take him on.
What I'm looking for is not someone that just screams at Trump all day and calls him Hitler, but somebody who actually presents the compelling argument to the American people of how it could be different.
That is a compelling enough thing where they want to vote for them.
My answer can just be summed up in four words.
As opposed to what?
Yes.
As opposed to what is the...
You don't have the court, you don't have the Senate, you lost the House, you lost everything.
You lost everything with your stupid boutique issues and your insistence that Joe Biden was a handsome young triathlete who was completely capable of functioning for another term.
So now you are not having a primary.
And so now you have nothing.
You have nothing.
I said it last week.
It's that scene in the movie where they're having a gunfight and then click, click, oh shit, there's no bullets.
I've seen them, sometimes they throw the gun at the person.
Like if they throw the gun, because they don't have enough bullets, well, you're at the throwing, you're throwing the gun.
And now you don't want to do that.
You know, I just don't know what the alternative is, and there's no good.
We're already fucked.
By the way, I was the one who kept saying this all those years.
I said, if you let this keep going, this slow-moving coup, this is going to get to the place where, you know, honestly, are we really ever going to have another real election now that, I mean, now that they have, I mean, he's got his guy in at the FBI.
This is what I kept saying.
If he wins again, he's going to replace the people who stopped him the first time.
You know, the Raphsonbergers in Georgia who would not say, okay, I'll find you 11,000 votes.
The decent Republicans said, no, they're gone.
This is what I was warning about.
Now the head of the FBI, the Justice Department, these are all complete Trump loyalists.
Obviously, we see it at the Defense Department.
I mean, in that world, he fired the guy who was his own appointee of a commission, the Election Commission, the long title, I don't remember, but something like Security and Cyber blah, blah, blah, Commission.
And this guy said this election, the 2020 election, was the freest and fairest.
And he wouldn't, now he's going after that guy for basically, he wants to prosecute someone for telling the truth.
But what does it say?
About elections.
But what does it say, Bill, about the Democrats?
That Trump was a very divisive president first time around.
And then he would argue he had his whole four-year, ten-year torn apart by the pandemic.
But then he was four years, well, two years in the wilderness.
Then he made this extraordinary comeback, which was almost totally linked, I think, to what they call the lawfare assault to try and jail him, often over the most trivial stuff like the Stormy Daniels thing, which was the one they finally convicted him on.
So you also had a Democrat Party that was getting so extreme to the left with this woke progressive agenda.
I would watch you week in, week out.
And I was saying the same stuff, because I think politically, I'm probably not far apart from you.
And I was like, I have nothing in common with this.
This is lunacy.
When you're trying to argue, I saw the British Prime Minister yesterday, Sakir Starmer, because in Britain there was a Supreme Court ruling that a woman is a woman and a trans woman is not a woman.
And the British Prime Minister actually came out and said that in light of this, now that he'd had this clarity, we can all move forward.
Because he'd said before that only, I think 99% of women don't have a penis.
But my point being, this is the Prime Minister of my great country who needed to be told by a court what a woman is.
And this is where the left have found themselves, right?
What is the solution for the Democrats?
I am a man.
I am one of the two sexes that Trump is recognizing.
But I also understand it's not that simple.
Somebody was here, maybe it was Charlie Kirk, and I was surprised that he doesn't think there's such a thing as trans.
I do.
I just think it just, again, there's always a centrist position to me that's so easy if people would just be reasonable.
How about just, first of all, kids too young to understand any of this.
Don't Treat Every Baby as Equal00:01:28
Just leave it out.
Just leave it out until they're old enough.
They can't understand drag when they're five.
I don't know if it's hurting them, but it's like, you know, come on, man.
This is adult stuff.
And also, it's not hateful to teach there is a default setting for humans and then also teach, but not everybody is.
There are minorities that are not.
There are gay people and there are people who are like, quote unquote, born in the wrong body.
Their brain doesn't think like they're...
And that happens.
And we should be respectful.
But don't act like every baby born is a jump ball.
We don't know what it is.
I mean, a penis?
Well, please.
If you're going to be technical, I mean, it doesn't really mean that.
People were saying that.
It doesn't mean anything.
It's a mild indication of something.
And we can always cut it off later.
All right.
I have to cut you off now.
Bill, thank you to you.
It's great to see you.
I appreciate the time.
It's a great time.
It's a pleasure.
Always a pleasure.
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