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April 2, 2025 - Uncensored - Piers Morgan
44:56
20250402_make-america-wealthy-again-trump-liberation-day-ta
Transcriber: nvidia/parakeet-tdt-0.6b-v2, sat-12l-sm, and large-v3-turbo
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Liberation Day or Stagflation 00:09:46
Welcome to an emergency late episode of Piers Morgan Uncensored.
President Trump says that today is Liberation Day for the United States and that he's about to make America wealthy again.
Has he just declared trade war on the rest of the world?
Is this the dawning of a new age of prosperity in the United States?
Or are we all about to be liberated from our money?
Well our first class panel will take you through it all in a moment.
First though, here is the president addressing global media in the White House Rosemary.
My fellow Americans, this is Liberation Day.
Waiting for a long time.
April 2nd, 2025 will forever be remembered as the day American industry was reborn, the day America's destiny was reclaimed, and the day that we began to make America wealthy again.
Gonna make it wealthy, good and wealthy.
For decades, our country has been looted, pillaged, raped, and plundered by nations near and far, both friend and foe alike.
Our country and its taxpayers have been ripped off for more than 50 years, but it is not going to happen anymore.
It's not going to happen.
In a few moments, I will sign a historic executive order instituting reciprocal tariffs on countries throughout the world.
Reciprocal.
That means they do it to us and we do it to them.
Well, President Trump says the U.S. will impose sweeping reciprocal tariffs across the world starting tomorrow.
He said that jobs and factories will come roaring back to the United States, raising trillions and trillions to help pay down national debt.
Several offenders got a name check.
Australian beef, European chicken, Canadian dairy, Chinese rice, Indian motorcycles, cars from all over the world.
Their products will all face a hefty tariff in the U.S. from now on.
So is he going to raise a lot of money for the US or take it out of American pockets?
Joining me to discuss all this are the founder and CEO of The Young Turks, Cheng Yuga, the author of Bad News and Second Class, Bhatia Ungar Sargon, the senior advisor for US Agency for Global Media, Carrie Lake, and the author of Financial Times columnist Gillian Tip.
Well, welcome to all of you.
Gillian, let me start with you as the presumptive financial brain of the panel.
Put it in simple terms here, after all the conjecture, the rumor mills, the threats, and so on, have we just ended up here with Trump saying it's going to be reciprocal tariffs across the board?
And as a principle, actually, what is wrong with that?
Well, I think that Trump models his political style on the wrestling ring.
Anyone who's been to a wrestling match in America knows there's a lot of manufactured agro-dramatic moves, name-calling, but often the audience knows that's partly manufactured because there'll then be some kind of quasi-victory or and or a climb down.
So what we're seeing right now is a lot of theatrics, a lot of drama.
There is still a chance that he will go forth now and strike deals with other countries to water down the tariffs.
But thus far, it does look as if he's throwing down the gauntlet to the rest of the world.
For him to describe this as reciprocal comes out of a theory among some of his advisors that after World War II, the U.S. embarked on an uneven trade pattern to enable the rest of the world to develop quickly in the name of peace.
And they think that's basically run past its sell-by date.
Now, in some cases, they may be right, but imposing tariffs in this way is unlikely to rebalance trade in the way that Trump actually wants.
It's unlikely to unleash this great big boom or economic boom that he talks about.
It's much more likely to unleash stagflation.
Because the reality is today the world trading system is so interconnected that taking this kind of unilateral move is highly likely to push up prices for American consumers as well as elsewhere in the world.
And the sheer uncertainty and shock and the dismantling of these trade networks is almost certainly going to cause businesses to panic and for essentially economic activity to go down.
So I suspect it's going to be quite painful for Americans like the rest of the world, at least in the short to medium term.
What if most people blink and come around to Trump's way of thinking very quickly?
Could it then A, work and B, be a vindication of what obviously is slightly bully boy tactics?
But could those two things happen?
I mean, could it be that it works and actually to America's benefit?
Well, it depends what you mean by working.
I mean, yes, there are countries which will give some concessions.
There certainly are businesses that will move a bit more manufacturing into America.
And so, yes, it may work in the sense that Trump will build Ukraine short-term victories.
However, the more likely reality is that almost every single company, every single country is now looking for alternatives and trying to look for ways to create alliances outside America.
And global trade right now is rising quite rapidly, but mostly between countries that are not America rather than with America.
So he's playing a very, very high stakes game.
And of course, his bet is that the American public will endure the pain in the short term because he says in the medium to long term, it will reorientate the American economy.
He's also betting, or at least Peter Navarro, his key advisor, is betting, that tariffs will raise about $6 trillion worth of revenues over the next 10 years.
And that will essentially help pay down the debt.
But both of those are pretty unproven bets.
And in the short to medium term, it's more likely that the rest of the world starts looking for alternatives rather than simply becomes a vassal state.
I mean, the one you watch, in my view, is manager above all else, because Mark Carney is a pretty strong character.
He's respected by Trump, and he knows he's sitting on the ability to both cut off electricity supplies to a large part of the American voters, but also to blow up Trump's cheap energy policy as well.
And I think it's unlikely that he's just going to roll over because he's facing an election.
Yeah, I think anything could happen.
All right, Chenk.
I get the overarching ambition of Trump here, where he wants to bring manufacturing back to the United States.
And he's using a very blunt instrument to do it.
And he did deploy tariffs reasonably successfully in his first term.
I mean, do you agree with the principle that America is too riddled with debt?
That's got to come down.
And it's lost too much manufacturing.
That's got to come back.
So you may not agree necessarily with what he's doing with the tariffs.
I'm sure you don't.
But the principle behind it is not necessarily a bad one.
Yeah, as usual, if he did it with a scalpel, it might work, but he's doing it with a hatchet or perhaps with Elon's chainsaw.
And that's the problem here.
So can reciprocal tariffs work?
Yes, but you've got to be careful in which industries you're affecting.
You've got to think it through strategies.
It doesn't look like they did that.
So they're just doing it across the board without being surgical, tactical, or strategic.
So there's a couple of reasons why they're doing it, but the one is by far the most important.
Trump's always liked tariffs.
He's always believed that tariffs are going to magically repair everything in the country.
No, they're not magic.
They have upsides and downsides.
In some cases, they make sense to protect manufacturing.
And in other cases, they don't because they lead to inflation and stagflation.
So number two is he uses it as a negotiating tactic.
He's used that a lot, but now people are starting to call his bluff.
And I'm actually a little bit worried that this is actually going to be a stimulus for the rest of the world to unite against us because they have no choice.
The European Union, Canada, Mexico, Japan, et cetera, South Korea will have to say, how are we going to respond to America?
How are we going to respond against America?
And I don't like them being united against us.
I think that's counterproductive.
But most importantly, Piers, none of this is going to last.
He said, oh, this is going to last for years and years.
There's no way that's going to happen.
So it's way too much of a hatchet and it'll hurt the stock market in the short run, the mid-run, the long run, et cetera.
His donors will rebel.
They're already rebelling, et cetera.
But all of this is actually just a ruse to pass that $4.5 trillion tax cut because they want to be able to say what you guys just talked about.
Oh, no, the tariffs will magically bring us $6 trillion over a decade.
So don't worry about that $4.5 trillion.
We're going to funnel to all of our donors, to Elon Musk, to Donald Trump, and to all the richest people in the country and to corporations.
That's what all of this tariff nonsense is about.
That's what the gold card nonsense is about.
That's what Doge nonsense is all about.
It's all to say, oh, don't worry about how we're going to blow up the debt and the deficit by doing another gigantic tax cut for the rich and for corporations.
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Now let's get straight to the point.
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Now on with the show.
Carrie, I saw you shaking your head repeatedly through Chen's address to the people there.
So why do you disagree with him?
Well, I disagree with a lot of what I've heard.
I mean, first of all, Piers, when you called it a trade war, that President Trump is starting a trade war, no, he's actually trying to bring about fair trade.
We've heard that phrase, fair trade, bantied about quite a bit over the past decades, but it's only, it's not been fair at all to America.
Look at our manufacturing.
It's just been hollowed out.
And we've got to rebuild American manufacturing, not only for our economy and for the hardworking men and women and for Americans.
We need jobs and we need to make things here in America, but really for national security as well.
I mean, we're making everything in Asia, overseas, in India.
We've got to make really important items here, whether it be medicines, whether it be vehicles.
We need to do this for our national security.
You know, so much is made in China over the years, an adversary of ours.
If they just turn things off to America, for lack of a better term, we're screwed.
And President Trump is not just looking out for his donors.
First of all, Cheng, he's not running.
He's not running for office again, although he could probably very easily.
He says he is.
Well, he is looking out for the American worker, the American man, the American woman who's been out of a job, having to work two or three jobs just to try to keep up with what used to be a good manufacturing job.
And we're going to be seeing manufacturing come back.
And let me tell you, as we get rid of some of the jobs here, I call them welfare jobs in the federal government, people making a fortune, hardly doing anything in a federal government job, as we start to move people out of those jobs, we're going to have a ton of incredible jobs opening up as all of this investment from foreign companies comes in.
We're going to be so proud to see Made in America on products once again.
I applaud President Trump for taking a bold move.
This isn't the art of the deal.
This is the art of the trade deal.
And we've been getting abused by the international community for so long.
And you see it in these trade deals where they make it so it's very negative toward America, but they try to tell us that it looks good, the trade deal is good for us when it hasn't been.
This is actually a trade deal that will be good for America.
Just you watch.
It's going to come back.
It's going to come roaring back.
And we truly will see the benefits of this, I think, sooner rather than later.
But Kerry, before I get back to you, has he got time?
I mean, already you've got massive instability and turbulence in the market.
Stock market is heavily down.
You've got people suffering directly from the consequences of that.
A lot of retired people will be very short of what's happening.
It's going to be good.
Well, it may be, but it's not going to be.
This is the first time we've ever done this.
This is the first.
Yeah.
So why do you think it's going to be short term?
It's the first time this has been done.
Because it's the first time it's going to be done.
There's jitters on Wall Street because we've never seen a bold move like this where the American economy, the American worker, American national security has been put first.
And the president pointed many times to the Oval Office saying, it was my predecessors sitting in that office that left us in the position we're in.
We don't have a choice.
Just remember, the debt that this country is facing right now, $36, $37 trillion in debt.
We saw the inflation spike up under Joe Biden.
President Trump is bringing inflation down.
Of course, there's going to be jitters when people try to figure out how this is going to affect them.
I believe it will be short term, and we'll see things level out, not only level out, but it'll take the burden off of the worker.
We'll be able to keep more money in our pockets when the Trump tax cuts come and help relieve some of that pressure on the American worker.
Our backs are breaking.
And over the last 60 days or so, the American people have watched in horror as we've uncovered the way they're wasting money right here in Washington, D.C., where I'm sitting.
I'm overseeing an agency right now where the most egregious, unbelievable waste of American taxpayer dollars is happening.
And the American people have had it.
Thank God for President Trump coming in and saying, we're going to just ask for fairness in trade.
I mean, you guys are acting like he's denying the ability for another country to come in and sell their products here.
He's just saying, let's make it fair.
You charge us 50%, we'll charge you 50%.
You charge us zero, we'll charge you zero.
And better yet, bring your manufacturing, bring your company into America.
You'll pay zero in taxes.
You'll save on the freight charges.
And you will have access to the greatest consumer the world has ever known, the American consumer.
Nobody wants to give up on the American consumer.
Okay, Batir.
I can see arguments on all sides of this, but the concern I would have if I was Donald Trump is that the turbulence at the moment is pretty extreme.
And you've already got a pretty hesitant economy fueled by a long-standing cost of living crisis.
People are already feeling the pinch, millions of people, tens of millions.
And this is coming at the worst possible time for them, this kind of turbulence.
This has to work and it has to work quickly, or it could turn out to be a very dangerous and reckless roll of the dice.
What I find so frustrating about the conversation around tariffs is that we all agree on the problem.
We all agree that the deindustrialization of America led to the downward mobility of the American working class, deaths of despair, people working multiple jobs and not being able to afford the American dream.
We all agree that it is deeply unfair for the American middle class to be bearing the burden of unfair tariffs from other countries.
We all agree that it is great for the president to have leverage in order to demand reasonable things like that country stop allowing fentanyl to murder 100,000 Americans every year and that Mexico do its part to police its own border.
Ordinary Americans Fear Inflation 00:15:27
And yet when somebody has the courage to show up and say to Wall Street, screw you, I am waging war, I am waging class warfare on behalf of the American working class.
And you elites in Wall Street, you do what you need to do because I'm not going to stop fighting for the American working class.
Suddenly, everybody is sitting around going, oh no, the stock market.
Yeah, the stock market looks like that because the rich are punishing Trump for siding with the neglected and humiliated American working class over them.
We have already seen these tariffs work, Pierce.
The number of people crossing the southern border is at zero.
Fentanyl is at record lows for the last 10 years.
We have already seen $1.2 trillion in manufacturing invested in this country since January 21st.
So they have already worked.
Now, how long is Wall Street going to keep trying to punish this president for standing the American working class?
I don't know, but I can tell you that the view from the street is people cannot believe that there is a president who is working for them, who is putting them first and telling Wall Street to go screw itself.
Wall Street, which picked the Democrats for the last three election cycles in a row.
That's what the real story is here.
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I don't think anyone could out pro-Trump Carrie Lake on a panel, but there we have it.
Jillian, Gillian, I detected that your right eyebrow moved an indistinguishably tiny amount, but for you, that's about as disapproving as it gets.
So you weren't necessarily buying all that Batia was selling there.
No, the question I'd say is leaving aside the reaction on Wall Street, and I would agree very strongly that the American economy has become overfinancialized, that there's been pumped up asset prices.
I would believe very, agree very strongly that that has made the rich richer at the expense of ordinary American workers.
I agree with all that.
What I find very striking, and I think is going to be Trump's biggest challenge going forward, is that if you look at surveys of what ordinary Americans, not Wall Street, but ordinary Americans think is now going to happen to inflation and growth and employment, inflation expectations have jumped up in the last two, three months from 3% to over 6%.
That is actually higher under some measures than we saw during COVID.
The employment expectations have cratered.
Ordinary American workers right now are extremely anxious.
So even if you accept the theory that this is going to reorientate American economy and trade in the medium to long term, I think it's very unclear that ordinary Americans are going to see the benefits of that anytime soon.
You just have to look at the consumer polls on a whole range of different surveys right now and how dramatically they've collapsed.
And so one of the questions I have is that, yes, maybe in the medium to long term, this might work out, as people like Peter Namara would say.
I actually have serious doubts about that.
But in the short to medium term, it's going to be brutal.
And when you say this is the first time we've had a president to do this, in fact, that's not correct.
100 years ago, we had a wave of extreme protectionism, not dissimilar to this, and that ended really badly.
So the question I'd throw back to the panel and the cheerleaders for what's happening right now is one, how do you think American consumers are going to react if their inflation expectations keep going up through the roof?
Particularly because gas prices are the most visible sign of inflation for them.
And if Canada squeezes America now on the oil and gas exports, those will really go up pretty dramatically, the gas prices.
And secondly, why is it going to be different today from what it was like in the 1930s?
Can I respond to that?
Well, they're very good questions.
Yeah, you can, yeah.
So first of all, American Compass did a survey of just GOP voters.
We know now that the majority of Americans who make under $100,000 a year now vote for the Republican Party.
So that was almost a means-tested poll.
And they found that 77% of GOP voters, the working class, not the elites, said that when they were asked, they said they would be willing to pay higher prices if it meant bringing back manufacturing, because of course, in their mind, they are going to be the beneficiaries of those manufacturing jobs.
About Canada, a lot of people are asking why Canada, we love Canada, Canada, our friends, why wage this tariff war on Canada?
And of course, the answer is simple.
Canada and Mexico are the back door to the American economy because we have this trade deal with them, the USMCA.
So if there are no tariffs on China, if Canada and Mexico do not match our tariffs on China, China simply builds car manufacturing plants in Canada and in Mexico, which they have already done, and they use that in order to get tariff-free cars into the American market, which is exactly what President Trump is trying to get away from.
So what he wants from them is for them to close that back door.
And I just want to emphasize again, you know, back in the 70s, when the majority of the GDP in America was in the middle class, right?
That's kind of like the golden era that we look back to of when the economy was really healthy and working class people felt that they could afford a middle class life.
25% of our economy was in manufacturing.
Today, the top 10% control over 60% of the GDP.
And that is a direct result of the fact that only 10% of our economy is manufacturing.
And the largest share, 20%, is in finance and real estate, which is, of course, how other countries artificially inflated the dollar, which makes the product of the American worker unaffordable.
And so what the tariffs are doing are simply saying we are refusing the race to the bottom in wages.
It is unfair to the American worker, which I think we have all basically agreed on at this point.
I think, can I say, do you think that's a good question?
I agree.
I agree.
You can, because I know you have to leave us, Jillian.
So if you respond and then.
Yeah, briefly, tax cuts are going to help the rich.
I'd love to know how you think that's going to help the ordinary workers.
And secondly, if you look at the Canadian trade, the auto sector is so integrated that, in fact, it's not the case of Canada exporting lots of cars to America.
It's part of a North American continuous supply chain.
Again, Mexico and the US are the same thing.
Cars cross the border seven times in the course of making a car.
And it's energy above all else that Canada really relies on in terms of the US trade.
And that is not something which has anything to do with China at all.
Yeah, what I was just trying to point out is that Trump's end game with Canada is not the tariffs.
It's for them to close the door to China.
And about the tax cuts, I think Trump is doing something really unique here, which is also answers your question about FDR and how we avoid that.
He's waging class warfare on behalf of the working class with tariffs and controlling the border, limiting the supply of immigration and of labor.
But he is also lowering the corporate tax rate and giving tax cuts to the wealthy in order to bolster that side of the economy.
And so he's doing a one-two game here where he's using two mechanisms in order to raise the wages of the working class and using two other things in order to attract investment and to give those people who are business leaders an opportunity to feel better about what he has planned for them.
Deregulation, this stuff is a really big deal.
If you are on the business owning side of things, this is great for business leaders and it's great for industry.
And so it's this two-pronged approach that I don't think we've ever seen before.
And it's just a very interesting approach.
We've seen it a million times.
Okay, let me give you a second.
Hang on one second.
Steve Bannon can't.
Let me give final word to Jillian because I know you have to go.
So Jillian, respond to that.
And I'm going to get a change and then to Carrie.
Steve Bannon himself is so worried about the income inequality that's going to be fueled by giving tax cuts to the wealthy and so worried about the debt implications that he said on the record that he thinks there should be tax rises for the wealthy.
I think that's where many American heads are right now.
And I'd be really curious as to how Trump weathers this going forward.
And I'm sorry, I do have to jump.
I do apologize.
It's a great conversation that I've learned a lot.
Thank you.
Jillian, great to have you.
Thank you very much.
Really appreciate it.
Great talking to you, Jillian.
Trump tax cuts.
This is a lot of nonsense.
Well, say goodbye to Jillian.
We're going to go ahead and get it.
Do you like paying more taxes?
Jake, do you want the Trump tax cuts to go away?
And one of the questions in reality is that why is it fair that Vietnam is charging us 90% in tariffs and we're not charging them the same?
President Trump's actually being A giant corporate tax cut, don't you?
You both want a giant corporate tax cut.
That's what this is about.
It's all a giant ruse.
You're not going to hear anything about tariffs after they pass that.
This is not populism.
It's the exact opposite.
Okay.
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And you're trying to disguise that as populism?
I want to do it.
No, of course you do.
Not for you, for the giant corporations and the wealthy.
That's what the tax is for.
So let me just back up and explain all of this, okay?
So, number one, Kerry originally started talking about national security.
That's always the excuse that they use.
Biden used the same excuse.
He said, Oh, the Chips Act, it's national security.
We have to make the chips here at home for semiconductors.
Yeah, there's some truth to that, and there's some truth to protecting manufacturing here and for national security.
But what do they use it for?
Biden used it to shovel over $50 billion in subsidies to the donor class.
Now, Trump is going to use it for $4.5 trillion in giant corporate tax cuts where they're going to take it from 21% to 15%.
Steve Bannon is right about that.
All populists, both on the right and the left, are right about that.
Even if it was true that these magical things like these tariffs are going to last for years and years, no, they're not.
After the tax cuts, you're never going to hear the tariffs again, okay?
But even if that were true and they were to raise $6 trillion, well, okay, great, because we have a $37 trillion debt right now, and the populists are the only ones who actually care about it.
The establishment Democrats, the Republicans, and now Trump, and also in his first term, now in his second term, are going to add and add and add and add.
So, if you're worried about the debt, why would you do $4.5 trillion to the richest people in the country?
Why are you taking it out of our pockets, putting it in their pockets?
Trump already took the corporate tax rate from 35% to 21%.
Now, he wants to bring it down to 15%.
These tariffs are nothing but a distraction and a squirrel.
So, he can say, oh, it's all good.
It's all good.
I'm not going to add to the debt.
You give all my corporate donors trillions and trillions and trillions of dollars.
If you were actually serious about being populist, you would say, Okay, look, no matter what you think about tariffs and whether you think a more strategic approach would have been better or a blunt instrument like this, we can all agree that there's no reason to give away $4.5 trillion to corporations.
You cannot make the argument that that's a populist position.
That is a giant, giant, giant giveaway.
And I can't stand it.
And, Batia, the way that Wall Street works, believe me, I'm no friend of Wall Street.
Hold on, hold on, hold on.
The way that Wall Street works is why does the stock market go down?
It's not because it's a cabal and they get together and they're like, should we punish Trump?
No, the price of aluminum goes up when you do the tariff.
So what does that affect?
For one of the things that it affects is beer because the cans are made out of aluminum.
So then I read a story today about how both on the Canadian side and the American side, they're worried about how the price of beer is going to go up.
And also true of energy.
So the price of gas is going to go up.
So when that happens, the shares of those companies, beer companies, Coke, oil companies, et cetera, they go down a little bit because they know they're going to sell less because their prices are going to be higher and the economy is going to be hurt by it.
They have that normal reaction to it.
I'm not the guy who thinks, oh, stock markets, the bellwether, and the only thing that matters.
No, wages matter, but this doesn't actually get us higher wages.
It doesn't get us paid family leave.
It doesn't get us anything that helps the average American.
Instead, he's going to hurt the economy real bad because he's doing it in such a blunt way.
And then he's going to use it as an excuse for his giant tax cuts that are going to go to all the corporations and all the donor class.
And then afterwards, you're never going to hear the tariffs again.
You're not going to hear the gold card.
You're not going to hear a Doge.
You're not going to hear anything because the whole point is that giant giveaway to corporations, not to the average American.
Well, I'm glad you got your talking points.
Geez.
You know what, Chank?
You can just write a checkbox to the U.S. Treasury.
You want to help your corporate buddies.
Why do we have a corporate tax cut?
Kerry, why do we want a corporate cut?
If you're such a populist, why do you want to help all Americans?
I want the Trump tax cuts to continue for all Americans.
Corporations are not Americans.
It's so typical that the left always interrupts, but I'm here in Washington, D.C., Chenk, okay?
I'm watching how they're abusing the American taxpayer.
President Trump is standing up for the American taxpayer.
We're cutting the waste in Washington, D.C. At the same time, remember, the Democrats have, sadly, they used to stand up for the working class.
Corporate Tax Cuts Exposed 00:10:46
They don't care about the working class anymore.
Look at all the wealthy donors who donated to Kamala.
They're not for Trump anymore.
They aren't.
And he cares about the working men and women.
I have lived and I've been all across this country.
I've lived in parts of the Rust Belt before where towns are just boarded up factories that haven't seen any work done in them for decades.
We are going to bring back manufacturing and jobs for the American man and the American woman.
And we're going to do so very quickly.
This is not something that we're going to slow roll into.
We've been watching for years as America's gotten screwed over by trade deals, and President Trump isn't going to stand for it anymore.
We know this will work.
There's going to be a lot of fear-mongering coming from the left and the media.
There's going to be a ton of fear-mongering.
Your beer prices are going to go up.
All this stuff CHANK just said.
Just wait and see.
This is going to happen.
There's going to be a few bumps along the way.
But in the end, we are going to see a strong American economy, a strong middle class.
You're right.
The middle class has been decimated.
It's going to come roaring back.
If we don't have a middle class, our economy will never be strong again.
So Pierce, take note of this show.
I want to bring it back in three months and three years.
You'll see what I was about to say about magically having a booming economy.
What I've been struck by.
What I think these tariffs will be around in two years.
Well, what I've been struck by is that you have to do it again.
All four of you have.
All four of you are completely certain, but only two of you can be right.
So in three or four months, this is all going to play out, and two of you will look ridiculous.
I just don't know which two.
I will tell you why.
Are you prepared?
I will tell you why.
I'll tell you why the ladies on the set are right.
I'm just worried about the fact that Trump has a track record.
Trump has a winning track record.
Chenk, you've been wrong a lot.
I'm just going to say that.
I love you, but you've been wrong a lot.
President Trump has been right almost about everything.
We've seen him build our economy up before, and he had one hand tied behind his back because he had the swamp working against him.
And now he's got the people with him.
He's got Washington, D.C., the draining of the swamp, the ending of the waste of our tax dollars.
And now he's ready to go in and rebuild the middle class.
And all we're asking for is parity, fairness here.
We're not asking for everybody to, we're charging tariffs on every other country.
If they're going to charge us zero, we'll charge them zero.
But let's have fairness.
It's not even parity.
Let me just ask you a question.
Let me ask you a question.
The one thing I would say is, I've known Trump a long time.
For him to stake everything as he is on this, when he was coming in on such a wave, having won everything in the election, amazing, the greatest comeback in modern political history anywhere in the world.
He didn't need to do this.
The fact he's gone all in on something that could literally determine whether this presidency works or not, and whether he goes down as a transformative, great president or a disaster.
The fact he's gone all in to me in the way that he's doing makes me think that at the very least, he believes and his financial advisors that he has around him that they all believe this can work.
Otherwise, why would they do it?
I think that's exactly right.
And the question is, work for who?
This is a redistribution of wealth from the elites who are invested in finance and in real estate to Americans who work with their hands for a living.
You know, the first term, you know, the left used to say, what did Trump accomplish except for a giveaway to the rich?
Well, he closed the border, which was a huge and transformative revolutionary act, which was totally successful.
And he imposed a 25% tariff on Chinese steel and aluminum.
And guess what?
For four months, the price of steel and aluminum went up a little bit.
And after four months, it went right back to where it had been when he imposed the tariff because we have a very healthy capitalistic system within the borders of this country.
And that free market did its thing and it brought the price back down.
So we know kind of, we can expect what to, what, we know what it looked like then.
And by the way, that happened in 2017.
In 2018, you know what inflation was?
It was 1.8%.
So I just think we've all been there.
I mean, we were all there.
We all witnessed that, but we're all acting like we have this amnesia.
And, you know, to your point, Pierce, like, what is the theory of mind on the left as to why Trump is doing this, potentially losing it all over tariffs?
They don't have a way to explain it because they spent 10 years saying this guy only cares about the rich.
And here he is staking it all for the working class.
This is why Shank has this cockamamie theory that the whole point of the tariffs is to hide, you know, this tax cut for the rich, which is like so ridiculous.
He could have just done it without.
Which you guys both want.
I'm not, there's nobody who's hiding it.
You guys are cheerleading for it.
So look, guys, there is a track.
Here's my question for America.
I want to ask you something, Shank.
Shank, Shank, do you really think like, so the idea is we want to bring manufacturing back?
I know you and I agree about that.
I know you agree that that's a great idea in theory, right?
What Trump said on the campaign trail and what he's doing now is he's saying, I need to incentivize that business to come back.
They're not going to come back on their own.
They're looking at their bottom dollar.
It's much cheaper to manufacture in China.
So what he said was, I'm going to take your corporate tax from 21% to 15% if and only if you manufacture in the United States.
Shank, what is wrong with that with a natural incentive to do right by the American worker?
How can you hold that against him?
You guys can't say it's for the American worker without actually proving it.
So here, I'll address all of it.
So hey, Mike Baker here, host of the President's Daily Brief podcast.
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First of all, Trump does have a track record.
And guys, I'm not in the Democratic targeting porn camp.
So, Kerry, you say Democratic establishment is in bed with the donors.
I totally agree.
Both of the parties are totally in bed with the donors.
So, is Trump.
Their good names are called Elon Musk, Miriam Adelson, and many of them, and the oil companies, all of his donors, okay?
So, those are stone cold facts.
And I want to bring back manufacturing.
I care deeply about the average American worker.
But Trump has a track record with the deficit.
What did he do last time?
He had over $8 trillion.
He added more to the deficit than any other president in U.S. history.
So, where's this great track record on the deficit and debt?
He's literally one of the worst, in fact, the worst president on debt.
And before COVID, they'd already added $5 trillion.
And then, COVID in his last year added $3 trillion more.
It was a gigantic spending screen.
And why did hold on, let me finish.
Hold on.
Oh, you don't care about the debt.
Of course, I care about the debt.
I care a lot about the debt.
Whenever it's time for corporate tax cuts, all of a sudden the right-wing can't find a way to care about the debt.
Oh, the debt, the debt, the debt.
I mean, give them corporate tax cuts.
They're like, ah, the debt doesn't matter.
Who cares?
Give it to the corporations.
What kind of populism is this?
This ain't populism.
So, yeah, I know.
I know you didn't because you were in favor of the giant corporate tax cuts last time.
All right.
What's the only thing Trump got accomplished?
Look, to be fair, you guys are right.
He's done a good job on the border this time around, even better than last time.
Okay.
So, look, I give him credit where he deserves.
But on the other hand, on economic issues and helping the average American, all he did was add a giant amount to the debt.
And what did he do?
His main accomplishment was taking corporate taxes from 35% to 21%.
Now he wants to take it down to 15%.
There's a reason why you ask me a question.
Let me answer it.
There's a reason why right-wing populists are also upset about it because that's not the right way to go.
There's no way that you're going to build a rebuild American middle class by doing trickle-down economic nonsense where you give it all to the rich and hope that it trickles on us later.
So the way to rebuild manufacturing is the best way to go.
This is not being given all to the industry.
Okay, so I'm answering it right now.
How do you rebuild it?
I don't think the tariffs are out of the question at all.
I think that you could do targeted tariffs based on the industry you're trying to rebuild.
And you have to have the mindset of this has to last at least two, three years or until both sides take the tariffs off.
But they're not going to last two or three years.
You know, Trump, the minute he loses, by the way, his economic numbers are now in the toilet.
So he's in a world of hurt there.
This is all a giant ruse.
And then the minute the tax cuts are in, look, what's going to happen is we've got an Alan.
We've got an Alan Lickman kind of situation here where they're claiming that magically corporate tax cuts are populists and are not going to add to the debt.
When you guys are all wrong and they take the tariffs away after the corporate tax cuts and the corporate tax cuts destroy the debt and the deficit, are you guys going to come back and apologize for being comically wrong?
Well, here's the thing.
I want you all to agree right now.
Hang on, hang on, hang on.
I want you all to agree on camera right now.
You'll all come back in four months' time and then we'll work out who was right and who was wrong.
Do you all agree?
And I agree and I want Chenk to hold his hand.
I agree.
And Chenk's got to hold up his tax rebate back and hand it back over to the Treasury so they can waste his money.
But I care about, you know, you mentioned energy, the energy sector.
Of course they love President Trump.
He wants to drill, baby, drill.
And you know how many jobs, hundreds of thousands of jobs, hardworking men and women work in the energy field here in America.
And he wants to make us energy independent once again.
I think in four months' time, Chenk is going to be completely on the side of President Trump.
We're going to see more pro-American talk coming out of Chenk in four months because he's going to see how this has worked.
Read the lower class taxes.
The beauty is, like I said, the beauty for me is only two of the four of you can be right.
Fascinating Trade War Outcome 00:01:20
And it's going to be fascinating because I honestly can't call it.
I don't know.
I just knowing Trump as long as I've known him, the idea he would go this big and stake everything on this if he wasn't convinced it was going to work, I think is for the birds.
So he believes it will work, as do his top people.
It's going to be fascinating to see what happens.
I've got to say, I've probably learned more about the American economy and tariffs in the last hour than I have learned about any subject in the last 20 years.
So thank you, all of you, for bringing so much information to the table.
I just don't know which of you is right.
But thank you for the debate.
It was great.
Thank you very much.
Thank you so much.
And the UK is only going to get a 10% tariff.
The UK is only going to get a 10% tariff, according to President Trump, today.
I would love that.
That would be great.
Well, let's see.
Thank you to my panel.
It was brilliant.
Thank you very much.
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