Uncensored - Piers Morgan - 20250121_trumps-executive-orders-pardons-with-dave-rubin-em
Aired: 2025-01-21
Duration: 58:03


=== Trump's Best Speech Ever (03:09) ===

[00:00:01]  I was saved by God to make America great again.
[00:00:08]  We will stand bravely.
[00:00:10]  We will live proudly.
[00:00:12]  And nothing will stand in our way because we are Americans.
[00:00:15]  The future is ours.
[00:00:18]  And our golden age has just begun.
[00:00:24]  I think that was Donald Trump's single best speech ever.
[00:00:30]  He's still the same gangster with neo-fascist sensibilities that he was before.
[00:00:34]  It certainly wasn't particularly gracious.
[00:00:36]  He gave us a shopping list of everything that he wants to get done.
[00:00:40]  There's going to be up to 200 executive orders unleashed, right?
[00:00:44]  I'm just genuinely curious which ones you have a big problem with.
[00:00:48]  Would you contest the fact there is a crisis on the southern border?
[00:00:51]  I definitely think that there's a problem at the border, but it's just interesting that Donald Trump is declaring a national emergency on this.
[00:00:56]  When you have an allegiance to profit-making and greed, lo and behold, the spiritual decay becomes more manifest.
[00:01:04]  Melania Trump, is she getting undercredited?
[00:01:07]  I think she's going to bring elegance and decency back.
[00:01:09]  That's in stark contrast to Jill Biden.
[00:01:12]  She's the one really upset she's giving up power.
[00:01:14]  Hush hobbit for just a moment.
[00:01:16]  Oh, oh, yeah, look at Dave Rubin doubling down on being wrong and lying.
[00:01:20]  I thought you were retiring, Dave.
[00:01:25]  Well, the first days of Donald Trump's second term will be remembered for MAGA shock therapy.
[00:01:30]  After 75 days of waiting, the Trump team wants the message to be promises made, promises kept and delivered at warp speed.
[00:01:36]  A reprieve for TikTok, pardons for January 6th rioters, the abolition of DEI and gender ideology across the federal government, a national emergency declaration at the U.S.-Mexico border, and rapid moves to clamp down on illegal immigrants, including an end to birthright citizenship.
[00:01:52]  As the 45th president becomes the 47th, what are America's hopes and fears for Trump's first 100 days?
[00:01:59]  To debate this, I'm joined by the host of the Rubin Report, an author of Don't Burn This Country, Surviving and Thriving in Our Woke Dystopia, Dave Rubin.
[00:02:07]  The co-host of Verdict with Ted Cruz, Ben Ferguson.
[00:02:09]  The TikTok influencer, Harry Sisson, whose job has just been saved by Donald Trump.
[00:02:13]  Philosopher and former independent president from Canada, Dr. Cornell West.
[00:02:17]  Well, welcome to all of you a stellar panel.
[00:02:19]  I'm delighted to say.
[00:02:21]  Dave Rubin, let me start with you.
[00:02:23]  Watching Donald Trump's inaugural address fair, two things struck me.
[00:02:28]  One, it was about half as long as his first one.
[00:02:31]  Very disciplined, very focused, hid all what he would call his greatest hits from his rallies.
[00:02:37]  It looked to me like a guy who understands what he has to do second time round is absolutely deliver on promise.
[00:02:45]  And if he does, his legacy could be extremely good.
[00:02:49]  I also got a sense of somebody who genuinely believes it when he says he feels like he's got another chance after the assassination attempt.
[00:02:56]  That bit of humanity in the speech was something he said to me a week after he got shot, that he just feels there was a reason why he got spared and that he thinks it's to make America great again.
[00:03:07]  And that's his great calling and purpose.

=== A Different Administration (08:35) ===

[00:03:10]  What did you feel about those two things?
[00:03:14]  Yeah, I think that's quite a good analysis.
[00:03:16]  And Piers, I think that was Donald Trump's single best speech ever.
[00:03:22]  We have all heard dozens, if not hundreds of them.
[00:03:25]  That was the most focused on-point speech.
[00:03:28]  And he really did two things there.
[00:03:30]  It obviously was about the resilience and the resurgence of America and laying out this golden age that I really do think is a coming.
[00:03:38]  And I think there's going to be change and change really, really fast.
[00:03:42]  And just returning to a lot of the sanity that we have forgotten about.
[00:03:46]  I mean, just for a president to have to get up there and say men are men and women are women is kind of crazy, but that's how close to the precipice of insanity we got.
[00:03:54]  But also fixing things at the border and foreign policy and economically and et cetera.
[00:03:58]  But the other part that I really like, because it was necessary, was that much of the speech was directed completely at the people who were behind his left shoulder.
[00:04:09]  And I'm talking about obviously Joe Biden and Kamala Harris and the other former presidents and some of those people, because he basically said, you guys almost handed the keys to the kingdom away.
[00:04:20]  You almost ruined the most precious, beautiful system of governance in the history of the world.
[00:04:26]  And I think it was important to say that this wasn't a speech of retribution, but it was important to acknowledge these guys have messed up an awful lot and their day is over.
[00:04:35]  A new day is here.
[00:04:37]  And Donald Trump is going to be a president for the people.
[00:04:39]  And I also agree with what you said about his newfound, if you want to call it faith, that's just fine.
[00:04:45]  But I think he is on a mission right now.
[00:04:47]  And it's very exciting.
[00:04:48]  I can tell you being here in D.C. right now, there are smiles on virtually every face in this city right now, believe it or not, here in D.C.
[00:04:56]  Well, there's no smile on Cornell West's face.
[00:04:59]  Cornell, it's a golden age.
[00:05:01]  The future is coming.
[00:05:02]  America's been trampled into the ground by the Democrats, but the Savior is here and all is going to be great.
[00:05:09]  Do you share that optimism?
[00:05:11]  Well, I'm a prisoner of hope, but for those of us who are committed to some deep conception of truth and love and justice, especially for poor and working people, not just here, but around the world.
[00:05:23]  Africa, Gaza, Haiti.
[00:05:26]  Legacy of Martin Luther King Jr. is one of what?
[00:05:30]  Unarmed truth.
[00:05:33]  Donald Trump, you know, he's my brother.
[00:05:35]  I'm a Christian, but he promotes armed lies and unconditional hubris.
[00:05:42]  Where was the focus on poor people?
[00:05:45]  Where was the acknowledgement of the genocide?
[00:05:47]  Where was the acknowledgement of working people 62% living paycheck to paycheck?
[00:05:53]  But he says prosperity, yes, we want prosperity.
[00:05:56]  Will it be fairly distributed?
[00:05:59]  We had the oligarch sitting right next to him.
[00:06:02]  They're speaking into his ear.
[00:06:05]  And Martin Luther King Jr. says, wait a minute, when I died, I was dealing with oligarchs.
[00:06:10]  When I died, I was dealing with increasing deregulated markets that makes a difference for working people to gain access to fair wages.
[00:06:20]  So it's a sad day for me, but I smile anyway because I believe in the possibility of human beings.
[00:06:25]  And as a Christian, you know, I pray for Trump.
[00:06:27]  I pray for his family.
[00:06:28]  But I also recognize that he's still the same gangster with neo-fascist sensibilities that he was before.
[00:06:35]  And I'm going to fight him.
[00:06:36]  I love my enemies, but I'll be fighting him every fiber of my being.
[00:06:41]  Would you say that it's the behavior of a gangster, Cornell, to give preemptive pardons to all your family and your mates?
[00:06:51]  I mean, I'm just...
[00:06:52]  That's what gangsters do now.
[00:06:54]  How does that sit with your totally?
[00:06:56]  How does that sit with your very popular?
[00:07:01]  The Democrats have their own gangsters, brother.
[00:07:03]  They got their own genocide promoters and so forth.
[00:07:06]  And not only that, there's a gangster in each and every one of us.
[00:07:09]  The question is whether we're willing to push it back and allow the best of us.
[00:07:14]  That's the legacy of Martin King, but not just King.
[00:07:16]  That's the legacy of Jesus of Nazareth, my brother.
[00:07:19]  Okay.
[00:07:20]  Let me bring Ben Ferguson in here.
[00:07:21]  I mean, I do think the best thing that could possibly have happened for Republicans is not just that Trump obviously got elected again and in such overwhelming style, especially winning the popular vote, which kind of killed all argument stone dead.
[00:07:38]  But also that he did it in a way, and this was clear from the speech, which resonated with so many people that Cornell doesn't seem to think were remotely impacted or affected by this.
[00:07:50]  He had a lot of poor Americans queuing up to vote, Who raced to the ballot box because in Trump they saw someone who does care about them.
[00:08:00]  I don't agree with Cornell there.
[00:08:02]  What did you say?
[00:08:03]  With all due respect, Cornell, I don't think you were listening because the people in this country that are living paycheck to paycheck, they voted in overwhelming numbers for Donald Trump.
[00:08:12]  Those that were concerned about their kids' future, and every time they pull up to a gas pump, they were having a hard time figuring out how they're going to choose between filling up a full tank or getting a full basket of groceries.
[00:08:22]  They voted for Donald Trump.
[00:08:23]  This election was proof that the American people were left behind by Joe Biden and the Biden crime family and those that he was going to have to pardon.
[00:08:32]  They cared more about going after their political opponents than they did about the American people that were suffering.
[00:08:37]  And if you listen to what Donald Trump said, he was clearly speaking to those living paycheck to paycheck.
[00:08:43]  And he clearly was saying, I understand that there's these people that tried to destroy me and ruin my life, but that's not why I'm here.
[00:08:50]  God spared my life to come back in and to say, I am going to be your spokesperson.
[00:08:56]  He said it last night in his campaign rally, his basically his last event of his life, where he was sitting there saying, I am here for you, not for me.
[00:09:05]  I think he's a different man than he was in 2016.
[00:09:08]  I think anyone that watched that speech and listened to it felt hope today.
[00:09:12]  I think if you're an American that's struggling, a single mom that's struggling today, someone whose kids in a failing school in my hometown, for example, of Memphis, Tennessee, where Martin Luther King was gunned down on this MLK day, there are the majority of the schools there are failing.
[00:09:26]  And what has Donald Trump said?
[00:09:27]  We have to do better.
[00:09:29]  We have to do better for the Hispanic American community, the African-American community.
[00:09:32]  We have to give you safer neighborhoods, safer streets, and a secure border.
[00:09:36]  And if you're looking at that president, Donald Trump of 2025 is very different than Donald Trump of 2016 and 17 and 18 and 19.
[00:09:46]  This is going to be a different administration.
[00:09:48]  Yeah, I think that's highly likely.
[00:09:50]  But Harry says, and I can see you grimacing and pulling all sorts of faces there.
[00:09:55]  And look, you've been.
[00:09:56]  Good to see you too, Pierce.
[00:09:57]  Great to see you.
[00:09:58]  Always good to have you on a census, even though you've been wrong spectacularly about almost every single thing you've said over the last calendar year.
[00:10:04]  But we'll gloss on it.
[00:10:06]  As Cornell would say, I forgive you, my brother.
[00:10:09]  That's fine.
[00:10:11]  For just being so wrong the entire time.
[00:10:14]  But I do want to play you a clip from December 2020, when Joe Biden was asked by Jake Tapper at CNN about rumors that Donald Trump might issue some preemptive pardons before he left office.
[00:10:26]  President Trump is reportedly considering a wave of preemptive pardons.
[00:10:31]  Does this concern you?
[00:10:33]  All these preemptive pardons?
[00:10:35]  Well, it concerns me in terms of what kind of precedent it sets and how the rest of the world looks at us as a nation of laws and justice.
[00:10:49]  You're not going to see in our administration that kind of approach to pardons, nor are you going to see in our administration the approach to making policy by tweets.
[00:11:02]  You know, it's just going to be a totally different way in which we approach the justice system.
[00:11:06]  Harry, here's your chance to redeem yourself by just conceding that when Joe Biden said that, he was telling an absolute blatant lie because he's now done preemptive pardons for just about anybody he can think of.
[00:11:19]  Do you accept that your main weapon against Trump has always been his alleged lack of veracity, as you put it?
[00:11:27]  Do you accept now that that's gone?
[00:11:29]  Because actually, Biden himself just told endless porkies about stuff like preemptive pardons.
[00:11:36]  It's interesting, Pierce, that you're arguing for the view that somebody's opinion on something can't change if circumstances change.
[00:11:42]  So when President Biden made that claim, there was no threat toward Donald Trump or his family.

=== The Gender Question Answered (15:15) ===

[00:11:46]  And look at these guys, these losers laughing over here.
[00:11:48]  But with Donald Trump appointing Kash Patel, who said he wants to go, excuse me, be quiet.
[00:11:54]  Wanting to appoint Cash Matel to the FBI, who said he wants to go after his political opponents, Donald Trump, who said he wants to appoint a special counsel to go after Biden's family, Cash Matel has a list of people, a list of people that he wants to go after and prosecute.
[00:12:07]  So you're asking me, wait, why did Biden do this?
[00:12:09]  Why did he pardon his family?
[00:12:10]  Maybe because the Trump DOJ and Trump's administration is promising to come after them.
[00:12:15]  I'm perfectly fine with Joe Biden.
[00:12:18]  Given the unjust attacks that they've suffered for the past four years as the Biden family.
[00:12:22]  And I also just want to finish with one thing.
[00:12:23]  I don't know why losers like Dave Rubin are up here because four years ago, he said if Biden served full term, he'll retire.
[00:12:29]  So I wonder why Dave Rubin hasn't retired yet when he said four years ago he'd do so if Biden served a full term.
[00:12:34]  So hold on, David and Chuck, hush.
[00:12:37]  Get out of here.
[00:12:38]  Hush, Hobbit, for just a moment.
[00:12:39]  Oh, yeah.
[00:12:41]  Look at Dave Rubin doubling down on being wrong and lying.
[00:12:43]  I thought you were retiring, Dave.
[00:12:45]  What happened?
[00:12:46]  I said that.
[00:12:47]  I said that in 2019 to illustrate the point back in 2019 that everyone knew, but mainstream media was hiding, which was that he was mentally compromised.
[00:12:58]  So you lied.
[00:12:59]  He has not retiring.
[00:13:01]  If you think he's really been president or making the decisions, Harry, you've been wrong about everything.
[00:13:06]  It's not even worth addressing you.
[00:13:07]  But let me make a point about the oligarchs.
[00:13:09]  You're going to have to do that.
[00:13:11]  And then you don't.
[00:13:12]  All right.
[00:13:14]  If I can make a point about referencing what Cornell said about the oligarchs, you know, it's, I think, a little bit of low-resolution thinking to look at the people standing behind Donald Trump and say, oh, they're oligarchs.
[00:13:26]  These are job creators.
[00:13:27]  Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos and some of those other people are now bringing Zuckerberg in and all of these people, whether you like them or not, whether you think everything they've done is good or not or anything else.
[00:13:37]  These are innovators.
[00:13:38]  These are people who have revolutionized industries and will continue to do so.
[00:13:42]  They've created more jobs than any of us have or any of us all combined.
[00:13:47]  So I don't think that just saying, oh, but there's these rich, successful people up there, it's not inherently bad.
[00:13:54]  It's actually quite good because now they are going to help Donald Trump unleash the American economy.
[00:13:59]  Well, yeah.
[00:14:00]  And also, look, I mean, in relation to someone like Elon Musk.
[00:14:02]  Hang on, Harry.
[00:14:03]  I mean, Harry, look, in relation to someone like Elon Musk.
[00:14:05]  Harry grow up.
[00:14:06]  Harry, in relation to, you know, funding was keeping Dave afloat for a while.
[00:14:10]  Harry, timeout.
[00:14:11]  Don't get personal.
[00:14:12]  Yeah, also not true.
[00:14:13]  But when you talk about someone like Dave, it's just fast.
[00:14:16]  Harry, I am actually trying to moderate a debate here.
[00:14:19]  When Elon Musk, for example, if you take him, I mean, I couldn't think of a more classic American immigrant success story than a guy who comes to America.
[00:14:29]  He creates some of the biggest, most successful companies in the history of planet Earth, almost all of which are specifically designed to help planet Earth, whether it's Tesla with green energy cars or Neuralink or SpaceX or whatever it may be.
[00:14:46]  The idea that anyone like you would have a few years ago said there was inherently a big problem with somebody like Elon Musk, given what he's done for America, would be unthinkable.
[00:14:57]  And yet now you do because now he supports Donald Trump.
[00:15:00]  Oh, no, no, hold on.
[00:15:01]  I have no problem with any of Elon Musk.
[00:15:03]  I'll let Cornell answer that.
[00:15:05]  Cornell.
[00:15:07]  No, the point is this: we're talking about a system.
[00:15:10]  Carnegie came from Scotland with hardly a dime and became a multi-multi-millionaire.
[00:15:16]  He was an oligarch during the Gilded Age.
[00:15:20]  He was a robber baron.
[00:15:22]  He had a system in which he was able to ascend to the top, but it was predicated on capitalist processes such that working people had tremendous difficulty gaining access to wages and it was predicated on tremendous power over politicians.
[00:15:42]  Now, does Musk have tremendous influence over politicians?
[00:15:47]  Does Bezos and others?
[00:15:48]  Of course they do.
[00:15:50]  And what's interesting about this is if Brother Trump had lost, he would have said the system is rigged.
[00:15:58]  Both of the candidates with gangster elements in both parties were tied to billions of dollars.
[00:16:05]  90 million fellow Americans decided what?
[00:16:08]  Not to vote at all.
[00:16:10]  So I'm not denying that working class Americans would vote for Trump because if the only alternative is a milquetoast Biden, then what other choice do you have?
[00:16:20]  Many of those folks have voted for Bernie Sanders have voted for Obama.
[00:16:23]  The system itself is so corrupt.
[00:16:26]  That's what we have to come to terms with.
[00:16:28]  Dave?
[00:16:28]  I think people are so over this type of thinking.
[00:16:31]  There are so many millions of people in America who are so unbelievably excited right now.
[00:16:36]  And we are about to see an 80s style revolution and reignition of the American dream.
[00:16:41]  I think we are going to see booms in every industry across the country.
[00:16:45]  From entertainment to manufacturing, he talked about cars again today and automobiles.
[00:16:50]  We are going to see people dream again.
[00:16:52]  You know, we have been in a four-year lull.
[00:16:55]  We've been in a mini depression as a country because we ushered in all of the worst socialist ideas.
[00:17:02]  I hate to tell Cornell, but capitalism is the best system out there to free the people.
[00:17:08]  And we are going to usher in capitalism.
[00:17:10]  We're going to deregulate it.
[00:17:16]  We're not free markets.
[00:17:17]  Oligarchic markets are not free markets at all.
[00:17:19]  And Biden's no socialist.
[00:17:21]  There's no social media.
[00:17:22]  No socialists.
[00:17:22]  He's a communist.
[00:17:23]  He's a Marxist.
[00:17:24]  He has.
[00:17:24]  Yeah, he's a communist.
[00:17:26]  When you go after your political opponents and you raid their homes, Cornell, that is what socialists, Marxists, and communists do.
[00:17:33]  When you have to give out parties to your entire family, when you have to get, I said it's different elements.
[00:17:40]  You have socialism, communism, Marxism.
[00:17:42]  That is the Democratic Party right now.
[00:17:43]  But the part that I am truly shocked that the two of you still don't understand is why Donald Trump left in 2020 and a lot of people didn't like him.
[00:17:53]  And he came back now and people absolutely love him.
[00:17:56]  And what you're missing, and part of me is shocked and part of me is glad that you're missing it because it means you guys don't know how to fight him, is that Donald Trump understood that there were people that were hurting in this country and they were hurting so bad because of the policies that put Donald Biden and James Biden and the Biden family ahead of the American people.
[00:18:15]  When they weaponize, again, if that's what you see, this is why you lost.
[00:18:20]  Because what you don't understand is when you weaponize, when you weaponize the government the way that he did, when you go out there and the very last thing that you'll be remembered for is taking your criminal actions and covering them for your family.
[00:18:33]  The last thing Joe Biden ever did in politics was give pardons to his criminal family members, Fauci and others on January 6th.
[00:18:42]  The reason why he lost, the reason why Harris lost is because they didn't give a crap about the American people.
[00:18:50]  And it was so clear they didn't at the end.
[00:18:52]  And that is exactly why you lost.
[00:18:54]  And if you guys aren't paying attention to that, you're going to keep losing.
[00:18:57]  I'm thankful for that.
[00:18:58]  But if you don't understand, I'm not here to defend Biden.
[00:19:04]  I'm not defending Harris.
[00:19:05]  I'm not defending the Democratic Party.
[00:19:07]  I agree with everyone of what you said.
[00:19:10]  I just told you that one of the reasons why Trump won is because he poses as if he's a kind of populist because of the milquetoast neoliberal Democratic Party that didn't speak to working people, didn't speak to poor people, wars around the world, genocide in Gaza.
[00:19:28]  I'm not a defender of it.
[00:19:29]  Connell, Conel.
[00:19:31]  Cornell.
[00:19:32]  Don't put me in that space.
[00:19:34]  Hang on, hang on.
[00:19:35]  Tell the truth about the Republican Party and their greed.
[00:19:41]  I do need to have one thing clarified.
[00:19:43]  What is the milquetoast rather than?
[00:19:45]  What's milquetoast?
[00:19:48]  Spineless, no backbone, no principle, lacking in integrity and character.
[00:19:55]  Did you vote for it?
[00:19:55]  That's true for both parties.
[00:19:56]  That's all I'm saying.
[00:19:57]  Did you market it?
[00:19:59]  It's a great friend.
[00:20:01]  Integrity, honesty, decency, character.
[00:20:04]  You don't see it in Trump.
[00:20:06]  Cornell said and he's vote.
[00:20:09]  That's all.
[00:20:10]  Cornell discusses the vote.
[00:20:11]  We just didn't agree on that.
[00:20:12]  We just didn't agree with that.
[00:20:13]  But we'll see.
[00:20:14]  I want to ask Harry.
[00:20:15]  Okay, I want to ask Harry.
[00:20:16]  Did he vote for Joe Biden?
[00:20:17]  Let me ask Harry this question.
[00:20:19]  Harry Sissons, there's going to be a good.
[00:20:21]  Hang on.
[00:20:22]  Cornell, hang on.
[00:20:23]  Hang on, guys.
[00:20:24]  I'm going to Harry.
[00:20:25]  Harry, there's going to be an executive order.
[00:20:27]  I'm going to go over the fuck myself.
[00:20:28]  Cornell, time out.
[00:20:30]  I'm going to Harry for a question.
[00:20:31]  Okay, okay.
[00:20:32]  Here's my question for Harry.
[00:20:34]  There's going to be up to 200 executive orders unleashed, right?
[00:20:37]  Many have already been signaled, many have already been announced.
[00:20:40]  Some were in the speech, some afterwards.
[00:20:43]  We know what a lot of these things are going to be, Harry.
[00:20:45]  I'm just curious, genuinely curious, which ones you have a big problem with, right?
[00:20:52]  For example, would you contest the fact there is a crisis on the southern border?
[00:20:58]  No, I definitely think that there's a problem at the border, but it's just interesting that Donald Trump is declaring a national emergency on this, given the fact that the numbers right now at the border are similar or even lower than they were under Donald Trump.
[00:21:09]  Well, the reason he's done that is because nearly 10 million people.
[00:21:14]  Harry, Harry, the reason is that nearly 10 million illegal immigrants got into America on the southern border in the last four years.
[00:21:20]  That is an emergency.
[00:21:21]  Actually, that's not true.
[00:21:22]  The majority of people who have come in in recent years have come in through asylum, meaning that they are legal.
[00:21:26]  You can keep saying yes, it is all you want.
[00:21:28]  You just don't know what you're talking about.
[00:21:29]  The majority of people who come in have come in through asylum, meaning that they're legal immigrants.
[00:21:33]  So, how many illegal immigrants in the asylum system can you hear special numbers that you find in some questions?
[00:21:38]  And you just keep your ass where just stop talking.
[00:21:41]  Just stop.
[00:21:42]  Nobody needs to do it.
[00:21:42]  No, I want to know how many you think.
[00:21:44]  The majority of people come in through asylum.
[00:21:46]  Now, Joe Biden tried to get laws to make people to claim asylum improperly, and Republicans like Donald Trump blocked the bill.
[00:21:54]  So I'm just, it's fascinating to me that this is Donald Trump's day one executive order.
[00:21:58]  And it's also for this Ferguson guy over here who's saying, oh, can you be quiet for five seconds by the way?
[00:22:02]  Can you just agree with me, Harry?
[00:22:04]  Harry, to be fair.
[00:22:05]  Hold on.
[00:22:05]  Harry, to be quiet.
[00:22:06]  Just to remind you.
[00:22:08]  Just to remind you, the first thing you did was agree with me.
[00:22:10]  There's a crisis on the southern border.
[00:22:12]  So why wouldn't you agree that there should be an emergency order?
[00:22:16]  Well, I'm just curious as to where the emergency is.
[00:22:18]  I think there's a crisis of the law.
[00:22:19]  The law is lacking.
[00:22:20]  I would like to see Donald Trump actually try to rewrite the asylum law.
[00:22:23]  So you think there's a crisis, but you shouldn't do anything about it.
[00:22:25]  All right.
[00:22:28]  Do you think the country should rewrite the law?
[00:22:30]  Do you think the cartel gangs should be designated terrorist groups?
[00:22:33]  Yes or no?
[00:22:34]  No problem.
[00:22:35]  No problem with that.
[00:22:36]  Great.
[00:22:36]  Okay.
[00:22:37]  Wait, can I take something to say?
[00:22:41]  Do you think there should be more than two genders in America?
[00:22:45]  Yeah, I don't know what that executive order means.
[00:22:46]  I don't know what the president declares.
[00:22:48]  It means there are two genders, male and female.
[00:22:49]  Do you disagree with that?
[00:22:50]  How many genders are there, Harry?
[00:22:52]  Yeah.
[00:22:53]  Come on, little guy.
[00:22:53]  How many genders are there?
[00:22:54]  Again, these guys don't know what they're talking about, so they won't be able to do that.
[00:22:56]  Harry, how many genders do people enforce?
[00:22:58]  How many genders are there, Harry?
[00:23:00]  How many genders are there?
[00:23:01]  What's the lead?
[00:23:02]  I'm going to use Joe Biden's answers.
[00:23:03]  At least two.
[00:23:04]  At least two.
[00:23:04]  That satisfies me.
[00:23:05]  How many more rather than male and female?
[00:23:06]  That's a TikTok answer.
[00:23:08]  There's at least two.
[00:23:09]  There's at least two.
[00:23:09]  Well, no, hang on.
[00:23:10]  There's male and female.
[00:23:12]  Donald Trump says there's male and female.
[00:23:14]  Okay, David.
[00:23:15]  How many more are there after male and female, Harry?
[00:23:18]  There's at least two.
[00:23:19]  Now, anyway, let me get a good question.
[00:23:20]  How many more are there?
[00:23:21]  What are the other ones?
[00:23:22]  There's at least two.
[00:23:23]  What are the other ones?
[00:23:24]  Harry, let's try it this way.
[00:23:25]  If you're a female, what is the other gender?
[00:23:29]  It's so funny how these, it's so funny how these conservatives just get time to lie on this show.
[00:23:33]  But when I'm speaking, they'll always ask you.
[00:23:34]  They asked the damn question.
[00:23:36]  You've just been asked a very simple question.
[00:23:38]  Harry's not you, Mr. Comover.
[00:23:40]  Rax, Harry, Harry, we simply got asked if there are at least two genders, how many more are there?
[00:23:45]  Here's people.
[00:23:47]  You were asked me about Donald Trump's executive order.
[00:23:49]  I'm trying to explain how legally it makes absolutely no sense and it's going to get sued in court.
[00:23:52]  Then we go into culture wars with Dave Rubin, this Ferguson guy asking how many genders are there.
[00:23:56]  I'm not sure.
[00:23:56]  I'm trying to answer your question.
[00:23:57]  They're screaming their faces on the shit.
[00:23:59]  How do you fucking matter?
[00:24:00]  Harry knows.
[00:24:01]  Oh, God.
[00:24:03]  I'm asking you, Harry, how many genders are you?
[00:24:05]  I'm answering your question.
[00:24:06]  Harry's answered your question.
[00:24:07]  Harry, how many genders are there?
[00:24:09]  Two.
[00:24:09]  There are at least two.
[00:24:10]  Two?
[00:24:10]  Or at least there are a hundred?
[00:24:12]  Hang on, Ben.
[00:24:13]  Hang on, Ben.
[00:24:13]  I've got less than a hundred.
[00:24:15]  Can I answer the question?
[00:24:16]  Yes, Cornell.
[00:24:17]  Could I answer the question, Brother Harris?
[00:24:19]  Brother Harris got a whole bunch of questions.
[00:24:20]  Help him out, Cornell.
[00:24:22]  According to Shakespeare, all of us are androgynous.
[00:24:27]  There are men and there are women.
[00:24:29]  There are different sides of human beings, all made in the image of a God that represents what I think.
[00:24:34]  And a sanctity.
[00:24:36]  And if you're going to try to start demonizing precious trans folk, then I'm going to be fired.
[00:24:43]  But it's not.
[00:24:44]  Okay, Courtney, I agree.
[00:24:45]  We're going to be fired.
[00:24:45]  I agree with them.
[00:24:46]  I agree.
[00:24:47]  I agree.
[00:24:47]  Don't demonize that.
[00:24:48]  There's all the left has left.
[00:24:50]  I'm going to say, I've got to say, the torture.
[00:24:52]  That's not all the left has left.
[00:24:53]  We've got a whole lot of people.
[00:24:57]  Cornell, when you reduce the quoting Shakespeare about gender.
[00:25:00]  It's going to be humanistic across this court member out there with so many MAGA hats.
[00:25:03]  Demonize your head, buddy.
[00:25:05]  It's weird.
[00:25:05]  I'm just sharing why we won, bro.
[00:25:07]  Nobody's demonizing.
[00:25:09]  I'm for girls playing girls in the world.
[00:25:11]  Women at the moment doesn't mean that you're right, brother.
[00:25:13]  Just because you won at the moment doesn't mean that you are in college sports.
[00:25:17]  You know that for me.
[00:25:18]  Dave Rubin.
[00:25:19]  Dave Rubin.
[00:25:20]  How many trans athletes are in college sports?
[00:25:22]  Does anybody know?
[00:25:23]  If there is one biological male beating a girl in a sport, look at this business.
[00:25:27]  This guy has absolutely no idea what he's talking about.
[00:25:29]  Can we get back to the executive orders I disagree with by any chance?
[00:25:32]  Yeah, sure.
[00:25:32]  Well, what about that one about two genders?
[00:25:34]  I can't work out.
[00:25:35]  Tenders.
[00:25:36]  Let's go back to that.
[00:25:37]  Well, hang on.
[00:25:37]  I can't work out whether you agree or disagree.
[00:25:39]  Donald Trump says specifically, Harry, there are two genders, male and female.
[00:25:43]  That's it.
[00:25:44]  You think there are at least two, which normally means there are more than two.
[00:25:48]  So what are the others?
[00:25:50]  Interpret as you will, but I think executive order is stupid.
[00:25:53]  Tell me, what are the others?
[00:25:54]  I've given you my answer.
[00:25:55]  What are the others?
[00:25:56]  You can interpret it.
[00:25:57]  What are the other genders?
[00:26:00]  I'm telling you, my answer is at least two.
[00:26:01]  Now, on the legitimacy of the executive order, make sure that you're a legal mechanism for enforcement.
[00:26:07]  Harry.
[00:26:07]  That's why I hate Terra Trunk babies.
[00:26:09]  Harry, when you say there are at least two genders.
[00:26:12]  Ted Cruz's buddy over here with the girl over needs to be quiet.
[00:26:15]  Piers talking to you.
[00:26:16]  I know.
[00:26:16]  Seriously, what you hear, Harry?
[00:26:18]  You said you wanted to go back to the list of executive orders, whether you agreed or not.
[00:26:22]  You say that.
[00:26:22]  You know, my answer, Piers, my answer doesn't change.
[00:26:24]  No, but your answer doesn't make any sense.
[00:26:25]  What do you mean?
[00:26:26]  Stupid.
[00:26:27]  It doesn't make any sense.
[00:26:28]  Piers, Piers, Piers, you can think my answer doesn't make any sense.
[00:26:30]  You're going to ask me the question again.
[00:26:31]  We're going to go back and forth on the exact same answer.
[00:26:34]  It makes no sense.
[00:26:35]  I'm asking what you mean by at least two genders.
[00:26:39]  I'm saying at least two.
[00:26:41]  What does that mean?
[00:26:44]  I'm not sure what you're confused about.
[00:26:45]  Does that mean there are more than two or there are two?
[00:26:48]  There's at a minimum two.
[00:26:49]  This is exactly why the Democrats are on these issues got themselves losers.
[00:26:55]  Difficulties are literally literally just telling us.
[00:26:59]  Trump is a conviction.
[00:27:00]  Don't call it Piers.

=== White Male Mediocrity (05:47) ===

[00:27:01]  All right, don't all shout.
[00:27:02]  I want Dave Rubin to respond.
[00:27:03]  Dave Rubin, this to me is exactly why the Democrats lost the plot.
[00:27:07]  They can't even explain what they mean when they say this crime.
[00:27:11]  Look, Harry perfectly exemplifies everything wrong with the modern left and the Democrat Party.
[00:27:17]  He can't tell you how many genders there are, and then all he can do is hurl insults.
[00:27:21]  That's exactly what the Democrats and the men are.
[00:27:23]  You just call me a child earlier.
[00:27:26]  You are a child.
[00:27:27]  Hypocrisy notes.
[00:27:28]  You're a child.
[00:27:28]  How old are you?
[00:27:29]  Hypocrisy not astounding.
[00:27:30]  Do you feel no shame when you say something like that?
[00:27:32]  Is hypocrisy not absolutely astounding, Dave?
[00:27:34]  Be quiet.
[00:27:35]  Get a job, kid.
[00:27:36]  Listen, listen, this is exactly this.
[00:27:38]  This is smug.
[00:27:39]  You're doing it wrong.
[00:27:40]  Nonsensical drivel is whatever hypocrisy is astounding.
[00:27:43]  Piers, if you may remember, what was it, a few months ago?
[00:27:46]  I think it was a day before Joe Biden stepped down when Harry and I were on the panel.
[00:27:51]  And he was saying how brilliantly sharp and never sharper.
[00:27:54]  He's, oh my God, his brain is so great.
[00:27:57]  Joe Biden is the best.
[00:27:58]  And then the next day, they did hire TikTokers from the VNC.
[00:28:01]  In all fairness.
[00:28:02]  And he's a yes, they pay these people.
[00:28:04]  It's as simple as that.
[00:28:05]  It's a lot of my commentators.
[00:28:07]  Russia pays conservative commentators.
[00:28:09]  All right, let me ask Cornell.
[00:28:11]  I want to bring Cornell back.
[00:28:13]  I want to bring Cornell back to the back.
[00:28:15]  I want to bring Cornell back.
[00:28:16]  Cornell, this whole idea of DEI, diversity, equity, inclusion.
[00:28:22]  Trump is on the rampage about this.
[00:28:25]  And I sort of feel he's right.
[00:28:26]  I feel that it went way too far to the extent that mediocrity started to be pushed forward above meritocracy.
[00:28:36]  Do you agree with that?
[00:28:38]  Well, you see, I would never want to be obsessed with DEI, the spirit of Martin Luther King Jr., which is not being manifested in our conversation, which is one of openness, sensitivity, recognizing people can agree and agree to disagree, and recognizing all of us are cracked vessels.
[00:28:57]  And DEI began because of the vicious legacy of white supremacy in America when you had 100 years of black people enslaved and another 100 years of Jim and Jane Crow.
[00:29:08]  Does everybody on this screen agree that slavery and Jim Crow are evil?
[00:29:13]  Yes.
[00:29:13]  Can we get an agreement on that?
[00:29:15]  Of course, but America was.
[00:29:17]  So we had to respond to it and we had to do something about it.
[00:29:21]  We had to do something about it.
[00:29:23]  What that meant was there was already some mediocrity in the system before the black folk and brown folk and others came in.
[00:29:30]  It's called white male mediocrity.
[00:29:32]  That had been part and parcel.
[00:29:34]  There was white male excellence too.
[00:29:36]  There was white male mediocrity.
[00:29:38]  And the question became broadening the pool to make sure you had merit and those who deserved asset.
[00:29:45]  What happened when you talked about the social engineering?
[00:29:50]  I'm not a social media.
[00:29:51]  I want to ask you important.
[00:29:53]  I want fairness.
[00:29:54]  All right, don't talk over each other across the board.
[00:29:57]  I don't want rhetoric.
[00:29:58]  I want fairness across the board.
[00:30:00]  Let me bring in Ben.
[00:30:01]  Let me bring in.
[00:30:02]  Hey, Mike Baker here, host of the President's Daily Brief podcast.
[00:30:05]  If you want straight talk on national security, foreign policy, and the biggest global stories going on of the day, this is the show for you.
[00:30:12]  We publish twice a day, Monday through Friday, once in the morning, again in the afternoon, and on the weekend.
[00:30:18]  We go longer with the PBB Situation Report with excellent guests, including national security insiders and foreign policy experts.
[00:30:25]  Check us out on Spotify, Apple, or wherever you get your podcasts.
[00:30:28]  Also, on our YouTube channel at President's Daily Brief.
[00:30:32]  Ben, my question: I mean, I don't dispute a question for you.
[00:30:35]  I don't dispute a lot of what Cornell just said, Ben, other than it wasn't really.
[00:30:39]  Let me say this.
[00:30:39]  Well, hang on.
[00:30:40]  Let me just make a point.
[00:30:41]  I want to make the point.
[00:30:42]  It wasn't really the answer to my question, which was: has the pendulum of DEI swung too far where actually the same problem that Cornell identified rightly about what was going on in the slavery years, completely right to say that.
[00:30:57]  But has it gone too far now as a corrective tool where actually mediocrity has surpassed meritocracy?
[00:31:05]  And who does that help when that happens?
[00:31:07]  I think nobody.
[00:31:08]  I would say, based on what we just saw out of the Biden administration and leadership, the answer is yes.
[00:31:13]  But I go back to Martin Luther King's dream.
[00:31:15]  If you look at Martin Luther King's dream, his dream was not to have people succeed or fail based on the color of their skin.
[00:31:23]  It was to choose the best regardless of their skin color.
[00:31:28]  And that was the dream he talked about that people seem to have forgotten.
[00:31:32]  It was a dream he talked about in Memphis, my hometown, the day he was assassinated.
[00:31:36]  He talked about the day before.
[00:31:38]  And what his dream was was not to have a pie that is, okay, how many transgender people do we have in the pie or gay or lesbian or black or white or Hispanic and have a kumbaya pie.
[00:31:50]  His goal was that you never judge someone based on the color of their skin.
[00:31:54]  His goal was to say the best should lead, the best should succeed.
[00:32:00]  It should be Barret-based.
[00:32:01]  It should not be based on if you're black, white, Hispanic, gay, lesbian.
[00:32:05]  I don't even think he could have imagined a transgenderism the way we have it now.
[00:32:09]  And that is what you're missing here is that what Donald Trump is saying is, give me the best and the brightest.
[00:32:15]  Don't give me some kumbaya pie that is a mandate for 17 transgendered and 17 gay and 17 straight and 17 black and 17 white and make up 100 people.
[00:32:28]  He's saying, give me the best and the brightest, regardless of any of that.
[00:32:32]  That was Martin Luther King's dream that he had for this country.
[00:32:35]  And when you do DEI, the way that the left has done it, you're saying, no, no, no, we only want these certain things first and foremost.
[00:32:43]  And everyone else, shut up and sit down.
[00:32:46]  That is not the American dream that Martin Luther King had.

=== MLK Dream vs DEI (02:17) ===

[00:32:48]  Yeah.
[00:32:49]  I mean, Harry Sissons, how can you disagree with that in all good conscience?
[00:32:53]  I don't even know what the hell he just said.
[00:32:55]  He just ranted for like two minutes.
[00:32:56]  I believe you absolutely nothing.
[00:32:57]  Yeah, no, he just ranted for two minutes.
[00:32:59]  You don't understand what he said?
[00:33:00]  It was pretty damn clear, dude.
[00:33:02]  Look, look, he wants to, he wants to bring up MLK and his and his dream.
[00:33:06]  And, you know, the idea that he supports Donald Trump while simultaneously supporting MLK is laughable.
[00:33:11]  No, I think, you know, how is that laughable?
[00:33:13]  It's a need for everybody.
[00:33:14]  How is that for everybody?
[00:33:16]  Just, I'll explain it if you just stop talking.
[00:33:18]  Nobody needs to hear you speak 24-7.
[00:33:20]  I guarantee it.
[00:33:21]  So, you know, Donald, it's just ironic that he supports Donald Trump and MLK because, you know, a lot of Donald Trump's policies are directly hurting a lot of the people that MLK advocated for.
[00:33:29]  Even when you're talking about working-class American, I'm happy to tell you again if you would stop talking.
[00:33:34]  Working class Americans, like with tariffs, for example.
[00:33:36]  MLK spoke extensively about helping middle-class Americans come up through the ranks.
[00:33:40]  With these tariffs, it's just going to raise costs for everybody.
[00:33:42]  All these folks have made complaints about high prices for four years.
[00:33:45]  Which tariffs?
[00:33:46]  25% tariffs on Canada where we get a bunch of our lumber and our oil, for example.
[00:33:50]  That'll make everything.
[00:33:50]  Everything actually said, 25% tariffs on this.
[00:33:55]  Or is he said anything?
[00:33:57]  Every major economist agrees that this stuff is going to raise prices.
[00:34:00]  So when you're saying, oh, I support MLK and I support Donald Trump, and also what you said in the Washington Times himself.
[00:34:08]  Look at what was said in Canada's newspapers today.
[00:34:11]  If you look at what you just said today, what you don't understand is it's called leverage.
[00:34:16]  And if you look at the markets today, they're responding to the idea that there's not going to be a 25% tariff on oil and liquid natural gas.
[00:34:24]  It's also about the one big deal he wants to pass.
[00:34:26]  That's how the government gets into president before he took office.
[00:34:29]  And he said that tariffs were not.
[00:34:30]  He has not implemented anything that you just described.
[00:34:33]  Is Donald Trump not implemented anything?
[00:34:35]  Is Donald Trump lying?
[00:34:36]  Is Donald Trump lying about putting in tariffs then?
[00:34:38]  Look, I didn't tell you.
[00:34:40]  Let me jump in.
[00:34:41]  Let me jump in.
[00:34:41]  Let me jump, people.
[00:34:42]  Let me jump in.
[00:34:43]  Harry, I'm not the American race today.
[00:34:45]  Harry, if you read a book called The Art of the Deal, which I recommend you read, it's the key to say, The Art of the Deal actually involves knowing how to leverage leverage.
[00:34:56]  It's a key part of doing business is that you don't always show your hand off the top.
[00:35:02]  Anyway, there's a bit too much bro energy raging.

=== Tariffs and Leverage (15:01) ===

[00:35:06]  We're going to have a little break for the bros for a couple of minutes.
[00:35:08]  We're going to bring in Emily Maitlis from the newscasters podcast because the president's relationship with the traditional media, the enemy of the people, as he sometimes puts it, already appears to be changing.
[00:35:18]  Major networks are notably shifting from dictator to diplomacy.
[00:35:23]  Emily, I suspect, might not be so easily won over and joins me now.
[00:35:28]  We've got a clip of her here talking about Trump.
[00:35:31]  When Donald Trump talked about the eating cats and dogs, Half of America was just thinking, this is bad.
[00:35:38]  I can't believe what he's saying.
[00:35:40]  This is going to be the end of it.
[00:35:41]  I'm swearing.
[00:35:41]  I'm swearing.
[00:35:42]  I'm so sorry.
[00:35:43]  So sorry.
[00:35:45]  So, Emily, you're in DC.
[00:35:48]  What I've been really struck by with Trump's win this time, and I've felt it for a while, is the complete lack of the same resistance that existed eight years ago.
[00:35:59]  No great marches, no great protests.
[00:36:02]  The media much more supine, much more respectful now to the reality and so on, which I suspect in turn will bring the best out of Trump, not the worst, because he's by nature a pugilist.
[00:36:16]  But how do you feel about it?
[00:36:17]  Are you sensing that as well?
[00:36:19]  Yeah, I am completely.
[00:36:20]  And Washington feels very odd this time, partly obviously because the whole ceremony moved indoors, the rotunda, the streets are really empty, the mall was completely empty.
[00:36:31]  And I guess a lot of people who'd kind of come to see him because of the cold just stayed indoors.
[00:36:36]  There was a protest last night, but it wasn't huge.
[00:36:40]  And I remember the morning after Inauguration Day, the morning after was a Saturday, and the women's march basically took over the whole of DC.
[00:36:49]  And we reckon there must have been a million people on the streets then.
[00:36:52]  I don't think we're going to see that again.
[00:36:54]  And partly, I think it's just a fact of novelty.
[00:36:58]  You know, it's we've, we are, we're sort of all feeling the same muscle memory maybe of eight years ago, but you don't have George Bush, you know, standing there saying, what all, what is all this, you know, bat shit talk, because we're slightly more used to it.
[00:37:13]  We know what Trump looks and sounds like.
[00:37:15]  We know what he wants to do.
[00:37:17]  And the American Carnage speech even of eight years ago, I thought was pretty much echoed today.
[00:37:24]  I mean, I didn't find it any more moving or any less moving.
[00:37:28]  It certainly wasn't particularly gracious, but it kind of did what it said.
[00:37:32]  You know, he gave us a shopping list of everything that he wants to get done.
[00:37:36]  And I think we're just more used to it now.
[00:37:39]  So maybe, maybe that's why.
[00:37:41]  I mean, maybe that's why people are kind of not pushing back.
[00:37:45]  Maybe it's also because the win this time was so broad.
[00:37:49]  You know, it wasn't insoluble in the sense that I don't think the Democrats could reverse it in four years' time.
[00:37:56]  But it was broad.
[00:37:57]  It was both houses.
[00:37:58]  It was the popular vote, something that, you know, Trump took time out in his inaugural speech to tell us.
[00:38:04]  And I think that is a real source of pride for him, that nobody can start sort of digging into that and saying, well, he didn't win this or he didn't win that.
[00:38:12]  And I think there is more acceptance maybe because of that.
[00:38:15]  Yeah, I mean, I also think that it's very interesting to see all the people as part of his brolegarchy.
[00:38:21]  If you look at people like Elon Musk, RFK Jr., Tulsi Gabbard, Joe Rogan, all these people, they were all on the other side.
[00:38:30]  They've all decamped to Trump.
[00:38:33]  And if you look at Zuckerberg and Bezos and these guys whose own platforms, certainly in Zuckerberg's case, were unashamedly in opposition to Trump, now performing these screeching U-turns.
[00:38:45]  There's been a real, as Trump would call it a movement to him, but there's been a movement away from Democrats.
[00:38:52]  And I think it's partly policy, no question.
[00:38:55]  But I think also this whole cultural aspect to it, this sort of cultural revolution of DEI, wokeism, all these things.
[00:39:03]  I think this has been a repudiation of much of that.
[00:39:06]  That actually, a lot of Americans went, we're just done with it.
[00:39:09]  Sorry.
[00:39:10]  We're done with all this.
[00:39:11]  And that's why the Trump commercial, which ended with Carmel is for they, them, Donald Trump's for you, was so effective.
[00:39:18]  What do you think?
[00:39:20]  I think it's about expediency, first and foremost.
[00:39:22]  And I think it's about fear.
[00:39:24]  If the incoming president is threatening to put you in jail and you'd kind of like to avoid that and you'd like to stop your company going under and you'd like to stop Elon Musk getting all the limelight, then you kind of do whatever you need to do.
[00:39:35]  And I interviewed Mark Zuckerberg of then Facebook about a decade ago, you know, when Facebook was just starting up.
[00:39:42]  And he doesn't seem like a politically engaged guy, particularly.
[00:39:47]  You know, his idea of Facebook was just running with your friends, sharing recipes with your friends, hooking up with your friends.
[00:39:54]  I don't think he was thinking ever in terms of being a publisher.
[00:39:57]  And so in some senses, when the diktat came in the first time around from Biden, from lawmakers during the first Trump era of like, how did you let this happen?
[00:40:07]  How did you let democracy, you know, get overturned?
[00:40:10]  How did you stop fact checking?
[00:40:12]  I think he brought in the fact checks slightly against his natural will.
[00:40:17]  And I think now he's kind of, he's very good at going with the political wins.
[00:40:21]  He's a businessman.
[00:40:22]  He wants to do whatever keeps the people in power happy.
[00:40:26]  But it's really interesting that while we've been sitting here watching, you know, the bros, the sort of the broligarchy behind Trump, if you're not part of that, but you are part of the tech circle, you know, if you're watching this from Davos, you're kind of scared.
[00:40:42]  You're thinking, why aren't I there?
[00:40:44]  Why aren't I part of that?
[00:40:45]  Am I losing out?
[00:40:46]  Because I'm not getting the same vibes that the sort of the six chosen ones are coming.
[00:40:52]  And, you know, some of them, I'm hearing stories, some who are very well connected, who have been very strong Democrat supporters, weren't actually getting enough support from Biden in the last four years of the administration.
[00:41:05]  They weren't getting help on the kind of stuff that they wanted help with.
[00:41:08]  We're going to play a clip to Steve Bannon on this very issue because he's really against the bro-ligarchy and in particular, Trump's very close friendship now with the tech oligarchs.
[00:41:19]  Let's take a look.
[00:41:19]  Zuckerberg's, you know, road to Damascus came a little late.
[00:41:25]  It was after the 5th of November.
[00:41:27]  It's very, you know, now he wants to be a bro.
[00:41:29]  Kung Fu fights.
[00:41:30]  He's going to UFC.
[00:41:31]  He's got his hair done differently.
[00:41:33]  He's cut.
[00:41:34]  That doesn't hack it with me.
[00:41:35]  That guy will flip on President Trump and he'll flip on us in a second.
[00:41:39]  When it's convenient for him, he will flip.
[00:41:42]  You called Elon Musk a truly evil person.
[00:41:46]  It's a little harsh.
[00:41:47]  He said that the MAGA movement was a bunch of racist and that they should be turfed out of the Republican Party.
[00:41:52]  He may or may not mean that.
[00:41:53]  But to me, there has to be an accounting for that.
[00:41:55]  Dave Rubin, I mean, there is a real sort of split here, isn't there, between diehard MAGA like Steve Bannon and those on the Republican side prepared to just accept this for what it is, that actually the more people who run great big social media platforms who come to the Republican side, the better.
[00:42:14]  Where do you sit with this?
[00:42:16]  Sure.
[00:42:16]  I'm not sure how big the divide really is.
[00:42:19]  I mean, we had that week before Christmas when everyone was fighting about H-1BBs.
[00:42:23]  I think there is some nuanced version of all of this that they will get to some answer on.
[00:42:28]  But I want to address what Bannon said there about Zuckerberg, because that actually gets to the heart of this.
[00:42:32]  Look, I don't know, like none of us on this panel or really anyone outside of Mark Zuckerberg himself.
[00:42:36]  I don't know what's in his heart.
[00:42:38]  So he had this Maya culpa.
[00:42:39]  He's seemingly coming around, but I never heard him say, I'm sorry.
[00:42:43]  So I do agree.
[00:42:44]  Had the election gone the other way, would he be doing this?
[00:42:46]  Probably not, but that also gives you opportunity.
[00:42:49]  And this is what Donald Trump is a master of.
[00:42:52]  Donald Trump is a master of taking people who used to not like him or who he didn't like, seeing the winds change and then bringing them in.
[00:43:00]  So if, because the culture has changed and because Donald Trump is now president, if that enables Mark Zuckerberg to respect the First Amendment and free speech more honorably than he did under the previous administration, that would be great.
[00:43:14]  At the same time, I would also say that I would love to hear Mark Zuckerberg.
[00:43:17]  You know, he went on Rogan and he said that the government was calling Facebook and berating them to take down posts.
[00:43:23]  Well, how about at least tell us who from the government did that?
[00:43:26]  Could we at least know their names?
[00:43:28]  That would be pretty good.
[00:43:29]  So I think there's more he can do.
[00:43:31]  And I would, again, I'm as suspect as Bannon is when it comes to Zuckerberg.
[00:43:35]  But all of these guys being up there, whether it's Musk who was a Democrat his entire life, or it's Bezos, who owns the freaking Washington Post, or it's Zuckerberg or any of these guys, he's bringing together the people who are literally leading the AI tech revolution that whether you like it or not is happening.
[00:43:52]  So it's going to happen.
[00:43:54]  And I would rather be on the side of bringing more people in and dealing with these things transparently.
[00:43:59]  Let's not forget the whole H-1B visa thing, the fight happened transparently.
[00:44:04]  It didn't happen the way they got rid of Biden behind closed doors.
[00:44:07]  It all happened on Twitter where you could see the fight.
[00:44:10]  That's America actually at its best.
[00:44:12]  That's what the battle of ideas is all about.
[00:44:14]  Piers, this goes back to when Donald Trump met.
[00:44:16]  I got the leaders that people said you couldn't meet with.
[00:44:19]  Sorry, hang on, sorry.
[00:44:21]  But last word is this.
[00:44:22]  Yes.
[00:44:22]  That the splits are going to increase because when you have an allegiance to profit making and greed and not to public interest and common good, and when you don't have the right integrity, honesty, and decency, lo and behold, the spiritual decay becomes more manifest.
[00:44:42]  But we just have to keep fighting and keep trying to tell the truth.
[00:44:44]  And Martin said, truth crushed earth will rise again.
[00:44:48]  Dr. Cornell West, always great to have you on our sensor.
[00:44:51]  Thank you very much.
[00:44:52]  Thank you so much, my brother.
[00:44:54]  Ben, back to you.
[00:44:55]  Yeah, I want to go back to one of the reasons why I think he's brought in these guys.
[00:44:59]  This is Donald Trump's policy.
[00:45:01]  He went and met with leaders that people said you don't even talk to.
[00:45:04]  You have zero dialogue with.
[00:45:06]  He was willing to pick up the phone and talk to anyone.
[00:45:09]  North Korea didn't matter.
[00:45:10]  He would talk to them.
[00:45:12]  And if you look at what Zuckerberg did, for example, this is a guy that spent hundreds of millions of dollars in Zuck bucks to influence the election.
[00:45:20]  The idea, as you're guessing earlier, that he's not really a political guy, is insane.
[00:45:24]  He spent more money than anyone else on the Democratic side in the last presidential election.
[00:45:30]  So the idea that he's non-political is absurd.
[00:45:33]  But what I think Donald Trump saw here was an opportunity to sit down with someone and say, let's have a dialogue.
[00:45:39]  Let's talk about it.
[00:45:40]  I also think what changed Musk and Zuckerberg possibly is the fact that even when they'd done what all they had done to help the Democratic Party, the Democratic Party still threatened them and their businesses.
[00:45:52]  That's what Zuckerberg said during that podcast.
[00:45:56]  He's like, dude, I limited all this stuff.
[00:45:58]  I gave all this money and they still cussed out my employees and tried to investigate every aspect of my of my company that I built.
[00:46:07]  And when you do that, like they do in Russia and China and other countries, except this was happening under Biden Harris, it makes Donald Trump look a lot more appealing to sit down and talk to and work with.
[00:46:17]  And I think that's the art of the deal here from their perspective.
[00:46:20]  Yeah, I mean, Harry, I want to talk to you specifically about TikTok because your biggest following is on TikTok.
[00:46:26]  So until the weekend, you must have been sweating away because your whole power base on that platform was about to disappear.
[00:46:34]  And then the Lone Ranger arrives to save the day.
[00:46:39]  Donald Trump, do you want to take this opportunity to thank President Trump for so far saving TikTok for you, therefore personally enriching you?
[00:46:51]  Yeah, so I've said previously that if Donald Trump or anybody, any politician saves TikTok and prevents it from a ban, I'll give them credit that they deserve.
[00:46:59]  But I also think it's important to point out.
[00:47:01]  Yeah, I mean, I'm not absolved of that.
[00:47:03]  Do you want to say thank you, Donald, at this stage or not?
[00:47:06]  Oh, no, I wouldn't never thank a sexual abuser for anything, I don't think.
[00:47:10]  All right.
[00:47:10]  But I do want to say that.
[00:47:11]  But when you say you give him credit, what do you mean?
[00:47:13]  Well, credit.
[00:47:14]  Hold on.
[00:47:15]  Let me just give some context here, though.
[00:47:16]  I do want to point out that Donald Trump did sign an executive order when he was president the first time to ban TikTok.
[00:47:23]  So the reason that this conversation started was because of Donald Trump in 2022 and 2023.
[00:47:27]  People like Charlie Kirk and I'm sure maybe these folks over here that I don't know for sure were advocating for the banning of TikTok.
[00:47:33]  And now when Donald Trump gets some money from people who have stake in it and he sees an opportunity to become more popular with Gen Z, then he flips his position.
[00:47:41]  Not what happens.
[00:47:41]  Flip-flopper.
[00:47:42]  So am I thankful?
[00:47:43]  Wait a minute, I'm like, how are you?
[00:47:46]  And I also want to point out that Joe Biden is placidly admitting that TikTok is spiny, is Chinese spyware?
[00:47:51]  Are you admitting that it's owned by the Chinese?
[00:47:53]  I don't know how you could have buying that.
[00:47:55]  I don't know how you could have gotten that from me saying that Donald Trump wanted to ban TikTok, but of course you draw conclusions that aren't there.
[00:48:01]  You'd fail the LSAT in a second, Dave Rubin.
[00:48:04]  Anyway, I also want to point out that Joe Biden laid the foundation.
[00:48:07]  Honestly, you know, appears to be a lot of people.
[00:48:10]  You took Russian money on your show.
[00:48:12]  Why would you let somebody on your show?
[00:48:16]  Disgraceful.
[00:48:17]  It's just like people with Russian money funneling to their.
[00:48:19]  Anyway, let me finish, Dave.
[00:48:20]  Would you just be quiet, please?
[00:48:22]  Thank you.
[00:48:22]  Appreciate it.
[00:48:23]  Thank you for being here.
[00:48:24]  Joe Biden laid the foundation for TikTok to stay alive in the United States.
[00:48:29]  He said that they won't enforce the law, that they're going to let the enforcement go to Donald Trump and his administration.
[00:48:34]  So that laid the foundation.
[00:48:35]  TikTok, Chinese supervisor.
[00:48:36]  You're only here because, do you have evidence to suggest that it is, Dave?
[00:48:40]  Yes.
[00:48:40]  A hell of a lot of it.
[00:48:42]  Please.
[00:48:42]  Yeah.
[00:48:42]  Lay it on.
[00:48:43]  Lay it on.
[00:48:43]  I know you make money from them, but hell yes.
[00:48:46]  Lay it on us, guys.
[00:48:47]  They won't let you have it on.
[00:48:48]  Lay it on us, guys.
[00:48:49]  Lay it on us, guys.
[00:48:50]  What's the evidence?
[00:48:51]  Let's go through it.
[00:48:52]  No, by the way.
[00:48:53]  Harry, is Chinese TikTok?
[00:48:55]  It's not different than American TikTok.
[00:48:56]  Yes or no?
[00:48:58]  Yes, it is.
[00:49:01]  So I'm still waiting for all this evidence.
[00:49:03]  I'm still waiting for all this evidence that you guys says is so present.
[00:49:06]  And by the way, if it is.
[00:49:07]  I'll give it to you.
[00:49:08]  I'll give it to you.
[00:49:08]  Pull this in carefully.
[00:49:09]  Hold on, gentlemen.
[00:49:09]  Wait, wait, let me wait for this.
[00:49:11]  Let me finish this really carefully.
[00:49:12]  Ferguson, let me finish it here quickly.
[00:49:13]  No, no, no.
[00:49:13]  I'll let you speak.
[00:49:14]  I'll let you speak.
[00:49:16]  Let me finish.
[00:49:16]  Let me finish and then I'll let you speak.
[00:49:18]  Ferguson, I'm done.
[00:49:19]  Let me finish and then I'll let you speak.
[00:49:21]  If you guys are arguing that it's Chinese spyware, are you saying that Donald Trump is currently arguing for a spyware phone, a mobile device?
[00:49:28]  No, because, again, this is where I'm going to teach you.
[00:49:31]  Oh, no, no, no.
[00:49:32]  I'm going to teach you politics here.
[00:49:33]  So you understand, of course, it's Chinese spyware, but not when Donald Trump advocates for it.
[00:49:37]  I love your democracy on this channel.
[00:49:40]  I'm going to explain it to you.
[00:49:41]  It's delicious.
[00:49:42]  I think that's a good thing.
[00:49:44]  Wow, this is not a good reach out.
[00:49:46]  Shut up, dude.
[00:49:46]  And I'll explain it to you.
[00:49:47]  And I apologize to the audience, Harry.
[00:49:50]  Let Ben respond to you.
[00:49:52]  Okay, I'm going to apologize to all of the audience right now that doesn't need this explanation because you're smart enough to understand it.
[00:49:57]  Now, Harry, for you, what Donald Trump falls into that category?
[00:50:01]  What Donald Trump said when he wanted to ban it is that it was clearly Chinese spyware.

=== Who Is In Charge (07:56) ===

[00:50:07]  And there's a reason why governments were cell phones and official government phones are not allowed to have this app on their phone.
[00:50:13]  That's number one.
[00:50:14]  Number two, what he did say was, I'm okay with TikTok as long as divested from China.
[00:50:21]  Now, let me explain what that means to you because clearly you don't understand it.
[00:50:24]  They don't want the Chinese government in this field to be able to spy.
[00:50:31]  And it's put out propaganda from the Chinese Communist Party.
[00:50:35]  Does TikTok divest?
[00:50:36]  Here's your recap for you.
[00:50:38]  Donald Trump said that if we change who owns TikTok to an American company that's not being controlled by the Chinese Communist Party, also known as the CCP.
[00:50:49]  Again, if you're never going to learn, buddy, if you don't listen, okay?
[00:50:51]  Premise 2 is false.
[00:50:53]  Premise 2 is false.
[00:50:54]  Your premise 2 is false.
[00:50:55]  Your conclusion cannot be true.
[00:50:56]  Again, you can argue it a second, but listen and maybe you'll learn something.
[00:51:00]  I know you're making all your money from the Chinese Communist Party via TikTok.
[00:51:03]  I get that.
[00:51:03]  And Dave is making his money from the Russians.
[00:51:06]  Dude, shut the white dog.
[00:51:08]  Piers, Piers, Piers, this kid is an embarrassing.
[00:51:12]  This is the best.
[00:51:13]  No, because you're just like a literal rat.
[00:51:17]  We're here trying to actually discuss employers.
[00:51:20]  Isn't there?
[00:51:20]  There's an unbelievable resurgence going on right now.
[00:51:23]  And he brings you on.
[00:51:24]  By the way, he brings you on because the contactors think you're retarded.
[00:51:28]  Okay, he's literally going back freaking out right now.
[00:51:31]  This guy's having a mental breakdown over there.
[00:51:32]  Relax, Dave.
[00:51:35]  Let's have a conversation on this.
[00:51:36]  Anyway, listen.
[00:51:37]  Listen.
[00:51:38]  Okay, Brennan, that's great, Dave.
[00:51:40]  We've tried this.
[00:51:42]  Okay, he's complaining about her personality.
[00:51:43]  He was complaining earlier about personal insults.
[00:51:45]  Dave was complaining earlier about personal insults.
[00:51:47]  All right, you know what?
[00:51:48]  No one can now hear a word anyone's saying.
[00:51:49]  I want to change the temperature a little bit.
[00:51:51]  Wait, wait, wait.
[00:51:52]  Piers, can I just quickly rebuttal like five seconds?
[00:51:54]  I promise.
[00:51:54]  No, you can't.
[00:51:55]  Dave, I'm going to go to you.
[00:51:57]  Dave, I want to talk to you about something completely, hopefully non-contentious, although I doubt it the way Harry's been behaving.
[00:52:03]  Melania Trump.
[00:52:05]  Piers, how do you see that?
[00:52:07]  I'm talking to Dave, Harry.
[00:52:08]  Melania Trump, it seems to me, does not get enough credit for being a great first lady.
[00:52:15]  Whatever you think of Donald Trump, it doesn't matter to me.
[00:52:18]  This is someone who inexplicably never got the covers of the magazines that were rolled out for all the other first ladies.
[00:52:24]  She's become a fashion icon.
[00:52:26]  She looked incredible, I thought, today at the inauguration, as she has done pretty much all the time throughout the campaign and so on.
[00:52:34]  What do you feel?
[00:52:34]  Is she getting undercredited, Melania Trump?
[00:52:37]  Because I think she's great at being a first lady.
[00:52:40]  Yeah, first Piers, let me real quick.
[00:52:41]  Let me apologize to you and your audience for my choice language there.
[00:52:44]  I'm happy to come on your show.
[00:52:46]  There's no problem.
[00:52:46]  Yeah, no, I know, I know.
[00:52:47]  I'm happy to come on your show and debate any leftist or any of these people anytime.
[00:52:51]  I will never come on with this child again.
[00:52:53]  This is utterly fruitless and pointless.
[00:52:55]  Just crime.
[00:52:55]  Put that aside.
[00:52:56]  Just crime.
[00:52:57]  Dude, grow up, grow up.
[00:52:58]  Okay.
[00:52:58]  You're a good person.
[00:52:59]  As for Melania, yeah.
[00:53:00]  I think I appreciate it.
[00:53:03]  Yeah, I think she, well, I, yeah, okay.
[00:53:05]  He just illustrated it once again.
[00:53:07]  As for Melania, I think she was a wonderful first lady.
[00:53:09]  I think she really understands the sort of elegance and the tone of what a first lady is, where she does sort of step in the background and really set the stage for the president to do events properly.
[00:53:21]  She's an unbelievably gracious host.
[00:53:23]  You know, I've met her a few times.
[00:53:24]  She's, and I'm sure you have as well.
[00:53:25]  She's an absolutely loving, decent human being.
[00:53:29]  And I would also say for people that have never seen the 47, now 47th president and the first lady together, I have seen them together at dinner when their hands are touching on the table.
[00:53:40]  They love each other.
[00:53:41]  It is real.
[00:53:43]  As he even said, I think in the speech today, that she is the person that he turns to.
[00:53:49]  And I think that's in stark contrast to Jill Biden, who in many ways was the Machiavellian puppet master of Joe Biden, who she's the one that's probably really upset today that she's giving up power.
[00:54:01]  I'm not totally convinced Joe even knew where he was, but I think she's going to bring elegance and decency back to the office of the first.
[00:54:08]  And you know what, Ben?
[00:54:09]  I like what she said on Fox last week, which was that, you know, she offers advice to Donald.
[00:54:14]  He doesn't always agree with it, and that's fine.
[00:54:16]  And sometimes he listens to her and sometimes he doesn't.
[00:54:18]  I mean, that's like most successful marriages in my estimation.
[00:54:21]  But I do want to play a little clip from Inauguration Day where she looked fantastic, but there was a problem with the hat.
[00:54:28]  Let's take a look.
[00:54:31]  You'll see them come together.
[00:54:32]  He goes in for the kiss and he just can't actually reach her cheek because of the brim of the hat.
[00:54:38]  That was just a strategic error.
[00:54:40]  That's a wise man.
[00:54:42]  That's a rise.
[00:54:43]  Wise man.
[00:54:44]  You don't mess with your wife's hat on Inauguration Day.
[00:54:46]  He knows who's in charge in that moment.
[00:54:48]  That is a buddy in the head.
[00:54:50]  I'm not messing with your hat.
[00:54:51]  I understand that I will pay for this later.
[00:54:54]  I'm going to give you the air kiss.
[00:54:55]  If my wife was wearing that hat, I wouldn't touch that hat on Inauguration Day either.
[00:55:00]  I do want to say I love first ladies that aren't as political.
[00:55:05]  I love that she finds humanitarian issues to deal with.
[00:55:11]  This is something that Laura Bush, for example, I think did incredibly well.
[00:55:14]  She's 180 from Joe Biden.
[00:55:17]  And look, Joe Biden had a tough job when you're a caretaker 24-7 and having to cover up that your husband is clearly incapacitated.
[00:55:26]  That is a tough place to be.
[00:55:28]  It is.
[00:55:28]  And the American people know that.
[00:55:30]  It's incredible.
[00:55:30]  And I think what Melania does so well is Melania someone that she's there to support Donald Trump and she's also there to protect her son as he was growing up.
[00:55:41]  And I have a lot of respect for that.
[00:55:43]  Yeah, I totally agree.
[00:55:44]  Harry, inexplicably, you've just spent the last two minutes grimacing and groaning when we're talking about Melania Trump being a really nice lady who dresses great and is a good first lady.
[00:55:54]  How could you possibly find exception in that?
[00:55:57]  No, I don't care about like you guys talking about her outfits.
[00:56:00]  Like, it's perfectly fine.
[00:56:01]  I'm sure she dresses lovely.
[00:56:03]  I just find it like, it's so brain numbing to hear everybody be like, like, you know, laugh about this interaction between Donald Trump and be like, that's a real man right there.
[00:56:11]  This guy's a criminal who assaults women.
[00:56:12]  This guy is no real man.
[00:56:14]  So for you guys to like, to praise Donald Trump for literally anything is sickening.
[00:56:18]  It is sickening to me.
[00:56:20]  And I also just want to point out that in the past couple of days, Donald Trump and Melania Trump have released their own meme cryptocurrencies, probably losing their followers hundreds of thousands of dollars, millions of dollars, depending on how much they put into it.
[00:56:30]  That doesn't strike me as very moral.
[00:56:32]  That doesn't strike me as people who are, you know, becoming the president and meeting the moment.
[00:56:37]  So yeah, I don't care about Melania Trump.
[00:56:39]  She's fine, great.
[00:56:40]  I have no objection to Melania Trump, but the praising of Donald Trump is her.
[00:56:42]  Except you just attack her.
[00:56:44]  You just attack her and then you say she's fine.
[00:56:48]  She's not when you do what you just did.
[00:56:51]  I've always held the belief that if somebody's not the president, yeah, well, I didn't certainly didn't say that.
[00:56:57]  I have this belief that for the most part, somebody's not a politician.
[00:57:02]  You saw I said she's a POS.
[00:57:04]  Wait, I'm sorry.
[00:57:05]  Are you okay with the cryptocurrency scheme that they're running right now, Ben?
[00:57:08]  Number one, I don't think it's a scheme.
[00:57:10]  Number two, I think cryptocurrencies drastically go up or down.
[00:57:13]  If you understand cryptocurrency, you would understand.
[00:57:15]  They drastically would go up.
[00:57:17]  Cryptocurrency is volatile.
[00:57:18]  Welcome to cryptocurrency, you moral, Ben.
[00:57:20]  This is so shame.
[00:57:21]  This is so shameful.
[00:57:22]  All right.
[00:57:22]  You can't just say like them having a certain amount of people.
[00:57:25]  We try to end on a moment of agreement about Melania.
[00:57:29]  You'll never get this from the Trump derangement.
[00:57:32]  You'll just get scams and Bibles and cryptocurrency and trading cards.
[00:57:35]  Okay.
[00:57:35]  That's right.
[00:57:36]  Here's what I know.
[00:57:36]  Donald Trump is your president right now.
[00:57:38]  So welcome to four years.
[00:57:39]  And Joe Biden was your president and you single.
[00:57:41]  He was.
[00:57:42]  He's not anymore, bro.
[00:57:43]  He's not anymore.
[00:57:44]  According to you, Harry, according to you, Harry.
[00:57:48]  According to you, Harry, he was going to spend another time.
[00:57:50]  You're still crying.
[00:57:51]  Being a brilliant president of the United States when, in fact, he could barely string a sentence together.
[00:57:55]  Got to leave it there.
[00:57:56]  Thank you all very much indeed.
[00:57:57]  Much appreciated.
[00:57:58]  Sam will never see that panel again, but it was worth it for one last round.
[00:58:02]  Only because Dave is scared.
[00:58:03]  Thank you, Wolverine.