Uncensored - Piers Morgan - 20241218_young-turks-showdown-with-dave-rubin-cenk-uygur-pl

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Dec. 18, 2024 - Uncensored - Piers Morgan

01:17:47

20241218_young-turks-showdown-with-dave-rubin-cenk-uygur-pl

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The MAGA Accusation 00:14:53
	The change, I mean, many people saying if you carry on down the road you're going in the last few weeks, you will be a fully-fledged member of MAGA before we know it.
	I'm not like Dave Rubin, a giant sell-out fraud who changed all of his positions and is totally useless and it shouldn't even be on here.
	He's just a waste of space.
	Piers, it's barely worth responding to this ridiculous buffoon who's the joke of the industry.
	That's what us disruptors are doing.
	He really does want to drain the swamp.
	And when you begin to drain it, well, all of those creatures start showing their teeth and hissing and wailing and snapping at you.
	And I think it's time now to drain it once and for all.
	Popular wisdom is that politics has never been so bitterly divided, but scratched beneath the surface of our everyday outrage, wash away the red and blue tribal paint.
	And there's a more interesting picture.
	President Trump has demolished the traditional divide of right and left.
	A classic liberal believes in free speech, free markets, and the freedom of individuals under the rule of law.
	A classic lefty is anti-war and highly suspicious of institutions.
	They support homegrown manufacturing jobs and the working class.
	Above all, they're very good at selling a vision of how things could be better for everyone.
	Right now, that all sounds a lot like, well, MAGA.
	Voters clearly agree.
	Black voters, Latino voters, young voters, working class voters, those with no college degree have all flocked to the big red tent.
	Even First Lady Jill Biden now appears to love Trump and loathe Harris as much as anybody.
	But the big problem with big tents is that the people who've been inside them for the longest are highly suspicious of newcomers.
	In a moment, we'll debate this and more with a star panel, all of whom have copped a public backlash for shifting their positions.
	But I'll begin with the OG of the political trans movement, Dave Rubin, creator and host of the Rubin Report.
	He wants to respond to my recent interview with his former colleague, Anna Kasperi.
	Well, Dave, great to have you on our sensor.
	So look, we had Anna on.
	Very interesting pivot that she's been making in the last few months.
	But obviously, you and her have a bit of history.
	And in the interest of fair-minded balance, this is your chance to say what you want to say by way of response to her.
	Sure.
	You know, funny, I enjoyed your intro there.
	I guess I did sort of get on the trans thing early.
	It just wasn't about, it just wasn't about my genitals.
	Look, Piers, you're absolutely right.
	What Donald Trump represents, and then I will address the Anna situation, but what Donald Trump represents right now is something that is well beyond conservative versus liberal or left versus right or anything else.
	It's a restoration of the American dream.
	It is a wide tent party that has now brought in classical liberals, not only like myself, but Tulsi Gabbard and RFK, who will be in the administration itself, or someone like Elon Musk, who was basically a default lefty his entire life.
	And it has brought them in conversation and in government and in culture with Republicans who tend to be more for the old institutions and more for, let's say, pro-capitalism, things of that nature.
	This has created a pro-America movement that I think almost everyone in America can get on board.
	Now, as it pertains to Anna, yes, I was part of the Young Turks Network about a decade ago.
	We were very, very good friends.
	She was invited to my wedding.
	We hung out all the time.
	I did see her on your show about two weeks ago.
	Well, for those who did, let me stop you there because for those who didn't, I want to play two clips.
	One, this is for those who may be coming cold to this.
	One is a sort of mashup of some of the things she said about you before.
	Then I'm going to play a clip of what she said on this show two weeks ago.
	So let's watch the two things.
	He was lazy when he worked here.
	He's lazy now with his ridiculous show where he proves time and time again that he doesn't know anything.
	He has no political identity.
	He is not an honest actor.
	He is not an intellectual.
	He is a fraud.
	But if you are someone who considers yourself libertarian, consider the fact that Dave Rubin is a public figure who represents you and he doesn't actually genuinely believe in your ideology.
	And he's going around the country embarrassing you.
	You need to at least know your shit and know how to back up your argument.
	Even if it's like a BS argument, you need to have an argument.
	Yeah.
	And he doesn't even take, like, he doesn't even do the legwork to be a grifter, right?
	Look, I don't know.
	Maybe I was wrong about Dave Rubin, but I just felt that he, first of all, after he left TYT, he did lie about us.
	And that bothered me because we were still friends.
	And I didn't understand what was going on.
	He did leave on good terms, so it was weird.
	And, you know, he kept saying that he was this classical liberal, but had trouble defining what that meant and had trouble reinforcing or at least backing up some of the claims that he was making about, you know, his newfound identity.
	So Dave, there we have it in all its inglorious fashion, all the digs she had at you.
	Then what she said online, which she herself, of course, was pivoting.
	What's your response?
	Well, first off, I should note that note, you don't have 10 years of videos of me saying anything about her because we did leave on good terms.
	As a matter of fact, when I told her I was leaving, we went to Zinc on Melrose.
	I took her out for Sangria and she cried that because I was leaving and I was bringing my producer with me.
	But putting that aside for a moment, if I can't explain any of my ideas, well, somehow this became a New York Times bestseller where I lay out all my classically liberal beliefs and I've discussed them with you many times and I believe in laissez-faire economics and I believe in individual rights and all that.
	But what I would say, I think she's a little confused and perhaps was lied to about some by her employers, about some of my behaviors or something like that.
	But I love the idea of anyone going through their own political evolution.
	You know, one of the things is that people go through it often in varying speeds.
	So I always say some people swallow the red pill and some people snort it, right?
	Some people just wake up overnight and they fully see it.
	I think one of the things that you have to do when you wake up is realize that many people have gone through this before you and that you might have wronged some people on the way there.
	So I was very glad to hear her say that she might have been wrong about Dave Rubin.
	Look, all it takes, honestly, like I know you know this, Piers, you've been in this game longer than me.
	You don't get any apologies in this business and I don't like making things really about myself in that sense.
	But genuinely, if there was a Maya culpa there or just a simple apology, maybe I didn't see things right about you, Dave, or whatever, I would gladly welcome anyone.
	And I don't mean to make this about her.
	If you're waking up to the ideas of liberty and limited government, especially post-COVID and seeing what this ridiculous Democratic Party has become, and you want to agree to disagree and dive into the ideas and have that battle, I will do that with absolutely anybody.
	So look, an apology probably I would say would be warranted, but I don't sit there and wait for it.
	And I think there are much bigger forces at play here than just the interpersonal battle of two people.
	Out of interest, I mean, if I could make it happen, would you debate her?
	Yes.
	I said that on my show after we played that clip.
	If she, I'd be happy to do it with her live, just the two of us in studio.
	If you want to be the host or moderator, I'll do it under any condition because again, I think there's something, I think it now represents something that could be unbelievably good for America.
	Progressives who have called everybody racists and bigots and impugned motives.
	I mean, people just watch that compilation right there.
	Always going after people in the worst nature.
	If you've now woke up, and from what I understand, I've seen some of her tweets, she's now being attacked the same way she attacked me.
	So I would say much like Bruce Willis said in Die Hard, welcome to the party, pal.
	But we can be on the same side, even if we still have political disagreements.
	Okay, we don't agree on the marginal tax rate or the immigration rates or something like that.
	If you love America, if you think this place is fundamentally good, if we still have a country that will offer more opportunity for any other place and you want to be part of that, yes, whatever the circumstances are or the moderator is or isn't, I'd be happy to do it.
	But if it's you, that would be great.
	You know, what's really interesting about what you've just said, I totally agree with you, by the way.
	But if you look at Trump's picks for his cabinet, for example, they are so diverse in terms of their views right across the board.
	I mean, if they all got together, they'd be arguing about all sorts of stuff, which I'm all in favor of.
	This kind of rigid ideology where you have to all sign up to one viewpoint about everything.
	There'll be people in there that completely just disagree with RFK, for example, about some of his views.
	Good.
	Have that debate.
	Have that debate.
	This is what democracy is supposed to be built on.
	Of course, this is the beauty of what Trump is doing right now.
	And really, you can connect that so deeply.
	I mean, I would recommend anyone go back on YouTube.
	You can find Donald Trump on Phil Donahue or Oprah or a whole bunch of these shows back in the 80s.
	And he sounds like a Democrat.
	So Donald Trump is not a traditional conservative.
	I would actually argue that Donald Trump's own political evolution probably peers is much more in line with guys like you and me than say, than say George Bush or Dick Cheney or someone that might, you know, you think of as a sort of standard bearer for Republicanism.
	So the fact that he is now going to bring in people who quite literally were running against him for president only six months ago, RFK Jr., and someone who ran against him for president on the other side, Tulsi, only four years ago, that shows you what's bringing them together.
	What's bringing them together is a love for America, a realization that we have been on the precipice of giving away the most precious, beautiful experiment in human history on how to free people ever.
	And I think Donald Trump actually now sees that.
	I also think that post-assassination attempt, I think he has a renewed fervor and sort of realization of what his role in life is.
	And that's the opportunity that, again, not to make this about Anna specifically, but anyone that's going through a wake-up.
	We know so many people have woken up.
	I mean, look, for me, it was, I think it was 2016.
	I did that why I left the left video for Prague or you.
	You want everyone to get there the day you do, but you have to be gracious when people come around one way or another.
	Yeah.
	Well, let's bring in my other panel members because some of them are definitely going on a very interesting journey, including new MAGA enthusiast Cheng Yuga.
	I said that deliberately to wind him up.
	The host and founder of The Young Turks, libertarian Dave Smith, host of Part of the Problem, Lindy Lee, the DNC Finance Committee member and advisor, and former woke activist turned YouTuber Amala Ekpunobi.
	Well, welcome to all of you.
	So, Chenk, I mean, many people saying if you carry on down the road you're going in the last few weeks, you will be a fully fledged member of MAGA before we know it.
	Yeah, there's absolutely no chance of that.
	And I'm not like Dave Rubin, a giant sellout fraud who changed all of his positions and is totally useless and shouldn't even be on here.
	He's just a waste of space.
	Wow.
	Really?
	After all Dave said about coming together?
	Yeah.
	Yeah, no, I've got no interest in coming together with utter frauds like Dave Rubin.
	So, brother, you telling me that when you were on the Young Turks, you were Mr. Progressive and you agreed with us 100%.
	Now all of a sudden you agree with Trump 100%.
	You're not saying something nuanced like we are.
	Hey, you know, when the guy gets shot at and he puts his fist up, that's courageous.
	When he does the McDonald's photo op and it works fine, no problem, right?
	If he wants to cut the Pentagon, great.
	Those are progressive positions.
	Anti-corruption, progressive position, anti-war, progressive position.
	But you change all of your ideology overnight and you expect us to believe that that's real.
	I don't think it's real at all.
	And I want an apology from you for all the crazy, outrageous lies that you told about the young Turks.
	When is that going to happen, huh?
	What are you going to admit that you changed all your positions for money?
	Okay.
	What position do you still have that's in any way a so-called classic liberal, you fraud?
	Dave?
	Piers, it's barely worth responding to this ridiculous buffoon who's the joke of the industry.
	But I will say this, Jank, you haven't spoken 10 years.
	I haven't even written a lot.
	You're a total fraud.
	I don't think he's a fraud or a joke.
	I think Dave Rubin is, for what he's worth, I think Dave Rubin is one of the most influential and significant voices out there right now.
	And I admire his honesty about the journey he's been on.
	I appreciate that.
	But, you know, the thing is, what Jank just proved is exactly what everyone in America, and I would say all over the world, is getting over.
	Nobody wants what he just offered up there.
	Not only does no one believe it, and he had it pre-packaged and ready to go and it's complete drivel.
	Yes, I sold out.
	It's just so, it's so nonsensical.
	Again, Jank, I'll gladly send you a signed copy of the book and you can read all of my thoughts.
	And if you're anti-corruption and you're anti-war, you should be on the Trump train.
	But your endless hatred, the division that you sow, calling everyone racist and white supremacist, all of that stuff, it's why you're not respected.
	But I don't mean to get into the personal side of that.
	I'm talking about now something that culturally has shifted.
	And everyone can see the griff that you're up to trying to sort of dance with the thing, but it's just not necessary.
	And I don't think that many people will buy it.
	Well, Cheng, let me put to you, Cheng, something that Laura...
	Hang on, Cheng.
	Hang on.
	Cheng, hang on.
	I'm going to read you something just to see your reaction.
	But Laura Loomer called you out on X, as you know, and she said this.
	You are the radical left, Cheng Yuga.
	You're a con artist and an opportunistic grifter who's gotten rich off demonizing President Trump, calling his supporters fascists and Nazis, promoting open borders, glorifying Hamas, and pushing conspiracy theories about Trump for nine years.
	If you want forgiveness, get on your filthy knees and pray to Allah, because you aren't welcome on the right and you aren't ever going to find a redemption arc, no matter how hard you pander.
	And she goes on and on.
	I'm going to keep calling you out every time you try to move an inch closer to many on the right because you're too dense and too dumb, or because they're too dense and too dumb to decode your subversion.
	But i'm not, um.
	So look, there are lots of people on the right who who think that you're on some great.
	Uh, move here to, as she puts it, wiggle your way into the middle and over to the right so you can then poison maga with your, as she puts it, subhuman political takes your thoughts.
	Yeah yeah yeah, okay.
	So look, this is people like Laura Lumer and Dave Rubin are the exact problem, and I think actually somebody else on this panel knows part of the solution.
	That's Dave Smith, and I want to come back to that in a second.
	So uh, when you have people like Dave Rubin, switch all of their positions.
Wiggling Into The Middle 00:15:04
	What happens is when you go to do nuance and you say hey guys, Hold on.
	Hold on.
	Let me explain.
	Hold on.
	Yeah, yeah, yeah.
	Hey, go pleasure Trump again.
	Go pleasure Trump again.
	Do you know that?
	He goes from Bernie to Trump and pretends.
	Come on.
	Come on, brother.
	Come on, brother.
	I tell people.
	You believe in something yesterday.
	You don't believe in anything today.
	What position?
	What position do you think I hold that I don't honestly believe?
	Yeah.
	Can I answer the question?
	Can I answer Trump?
	What position do I say that I believe that I don't really believe?
	Go ahead.
	Brother, you went on Fox News with Tucker Carlson.
	You went on Tucker Carlson on Fox News and said gay people, that the fact that the fire department was recruiting gay people was why there was forest fires.
	You're a national embarrassment, okay?
	You pleasure those guys for a living.
	You can pull up the clip tomorrow if you want.
	I was talking about the equity.
	You can pull up the clip that you shouldn't hire based on their genitals or their sexual orientation.
	And we now all know that.
	You have been one of the prime pushers of all of this neo-racism.
	I believe in meritocracy, that whether you're going to be a doctor or a firefighter or a basketball player or anything else, you should be hired on your qualifications, not your genitals or sexual orientation or skin color.
	That's actually America.
	So you can keep trying here.
	Jank, finish your point.
	Then I go to Dave Smith.
	Listen, yes.
	When this country desperately needs to unite against the establishment on things we all agree on.
	So things like we all, all the populace hate corruption.
	All the populace hate war.
	By the way, Dave doesn't.
	Dave will demand that we start every war for Israel and pay for all of Israel's war.
	So he's been establishment on that all along.
	So, but when you go to say, hey, can we get an agreement on things that we agree on?
	The left pushes back because they're so afraid.
	They got traumatized by the Dave Rubins in the world.
	They're like, oh, if you take one step, not even in their direction, if you allow the right wing to take a step in our direction, they're worried that you're going to be a fraud like Dave Rubin and change all of your positions overnight.
	So my friends on the left, do not get scarred by this fraud of a man.
	There are other people like Dave Smith who's a libertarian.
	We disagree on other issues.
	Let me bring in Dave.
	We can actually unite on the things that we care about.
	Let me bring in Jason.
	In order to unite, you got to get past the frauds like Dave Rubin.
	Dave Smith, welcome back to Uncensored.
	Obviously, things have kicked off.
	I actually thought there might have been a coming together moment and not the way it went, but it's gone the opposite way.
	Let's just take what Dave Rubin was saying and then how Champ responded.
	But it seems to me that this big tent thing of Trump, I mean, it's very real.
	His popularity in America has never been higher than it is today.
	He's got an incredible mandate.
	The Republicans basically now are in charge of absolutely everything.
	You've got everyone who formally distanced themselves in 2016 racing down to Mar-a-Lago to kiss the ring and so on.
	I mean, it's a real opportunity, but it's undeniably an extraordinary coming together of people from all types of political views and so on, isn't it?
	Yeah, absolutely.
	And let me just say for the record that I like both Dave and Jank.
	So do I.
	I agree.
	Jank did work in a compliment toward me.
	And Dave, you weren't able to do that.
	So I'm going to be on Junk's side on this issue now.
	Dave, you and I have some differences.
	I've never gone after you.
	I like you.
	Absolutely.
	That's true.
	Listen, I don't, look, bigger than your guys like personal beef.
	I think it's what's going on here is really kind of amazing.
	Well, okay, but I'm just saying, if you zoom out here, you know, I think since this last election, people are focused on this kind of realignment and the new political dynamics in America.
	If you look back eight years ago in 2016, during this election in both major political parties, you had essentially civil wars.
	I mean, Donald Trump came in and took over the Republican Party against the will of the establishment and the donor class.
	In 2016, the RNC was floating out the idea of changing the rules, as you remember well, Pierce, all the way up until the convention.
	They were floating out the idea of trying to steal this thing from Donald Trump.
	Of course, that same year, the Bernie Sanders movement had to be flat out cheated by the Democratic establishment.
	So it's not as if these things haven't been building for quite a long time.
	I think what happened in this election is that the thing that unified people around Trump was one, like Dave, you know, like you said, me and you disagree on a lot of issues.
	I think a lot of people who ended up supporting Trump disagree on a lot of issues.
	The one thing that united all of us is that we opposed the blatant corruption of the establishment and the corporate media apparatus, which is nothing more than the mouthpiece of the regime, constantly in the business of lying to the American people in service of the regime.
	And this is what a lot, so this is how you're able to get someone, a liberal like Bobby Kennedy and a liberal like Tulsi Gabbard and somebody like JD Vance or somebody like the fake Ramaswamy, why they can all come together is that they all oppose the corruption that permeates D.C. that has truly profoundly degraded this country over the last 25 years.
	And I think that there's just with that basic understanding, there's a lot that people even with very different political views can agree on.
	Yeah.
	Amala, I want to come to you, but I want to play a clip from Stephen A. Smith.
	This is where he's calling out people who say he's on the right because he's been criticizing Democrats.
	Let's take a listen.
	No surprises.
	You're just continuing to piss me off.
	Why?
	Because every time I make a comment that's critical of the Democratic Party or the left, I get accused of being a pundit for the right.
	I voiced my concerns about Joe Biden and his ability to serve as second term, or second term rather, as president.
	Then Biden stepped on the debate stage in late June and revealed what many suspected.
	He embarrassed himself.
	The White House and the Democrats eventually switched to Vice President Kamala Harris when he stepped away.
	I pointed out my concerns with the campaign and the Democratic Party along the way.
	And many of you wanted to accuse me of being a voice for the right.
	Yeah, I mean, you know, I just find it inexplicable that someone like him who's so smart can pass genuinely constructive criticism about why Democrats got it wrong.
	And immediately he has to be branded a right-wing headbanger.
	And that's the only reason he's doing this.
	When in fact, a bit of serious introspection from the Democrats is obviously massively overdue.
	What do you think of it, Amala?
	Yeah, I mean, I completely agree with your characterization.
	I think this is the big part of why they lost this past election.
	And it's this sort of dogmatic fervor that they have for everybody to toe every single part of the ideology that they represent.
	And I had a very similar experience.
	I used to be an extremely radical leftist.
	I was working for a left-leaning organization organizing students to work on all of these different woke campaigns that were circulating at the time.
	And as soon as I started to question the narrative or question the fabric of the ideology I was pushing, I was immediately, you know, thrust out into the open to sort of explore these ideas and figure out maybe I'm on the wrong side here because I was with a group of people that were claiming to be tolerant.
	But as soon as you have an ounce of skepticism, they are ready to push you aside and label you as far right.
	And I think much to their dismay, what this is going to create is a group of people that feel so isolated that they are willing to indulge in right-leaning ideology, what they would characterize as far right, but at this point is just, you know, reasonable common sense.
	And as they are abandoned by their side, they're going to look to others and they're going to be accepted because we are able to explore.
	We are actually promoting skepticism.
	Yeah.
	Lindy, I want to play clear.
	This is Kamala Harris overnight.
	I don't know why she thought this was a good idea to come back out before Christmas as everyone's looking at their wounds and almost like she was in campaign mode again.
	It's like, please do not do this.
	But let's take a listen to what she had to say.
	Get some rest over the holidays.
	Spend time with the people you love.
	You know, I believe family comes in many forms.
	There's family by blood and there's family by love.
	I urge you then after you have had some rest.
	In fact, I challenge you to come back ready.
	Ready to chart our path to the future.
	Chin up, shoulders back, forever impatient for change.
	I mean, Lindy, no disrespect to her, because she's a perfectly nice woman.
	She would not inspire me to open a bag of chips.
	I mean, seriously.
	And I think that she sort of personifies now that ghost of Christmas past, as does Biden.
	The Democrats have got to move on quickly, haven't they?
	Yeah, I couldn't agree more.
	She's indulging delusions of running for governor in California in 2026 and perhaps even running for president in 2020.
	And I just want to echo what a lot of you guys already said.
	This past week has been harrowing for me.
	This just, this Saturday, I went on Fox and Friends and I said that Democrats have a stench of loser hang over them.
	As soon as I said that, there were boycott campaigns against me, unblock, unfollow campaigns.
	I lost 40,000 followers in four days.
	People have called me the W word.
	I don't know what we're allowed to say, but you can fill in the blank.
	We're uncensored.
	Let's say it.
	Say it.
	Say what the word was.
	Am I allowed to?
	Yeah.
	Apparently, I'm a, well, they called me a whore.
	They called me the C word.
	They asked for me to be deported.
	And you can just, you can just search for my name in those terms on X and you'll see a bunch of them.
	So, you know, all these so-called Democrats, the party of inclusion, the party of diversity, masks off.
	And it's even worse because they pretend to occupy the moral high ground.
	At least with Republicans, you know, they are who they are.
	But with Democrats, they pretend to be, you know, so loving and caring and embracing of diversity.
	But all of a sudden, when I dare to utter any criticisms of the goddess, Kamala Harris, I get ostracized.
	Me, after having raised tens of millions of dollars for the party.
	And I'm being called a grifter when all along, all these years, I've said on TV, I've said to the press, I'm a conservative Democrat.
	This is not a switch for me.
	This is just me.
	This is who I've always been.
	And also, my donors are pissed.
	They raised $2.5 billion across Super PAC in the campaign.
	It's my responsibility.
	It's my duty of care to ask what the hell happened with that money.
	Why did we spend it?
	Why did we spend millions of dollars on five-star hotels for campaign staffers?
	Why did we spend $500,000 essentially bribing Al Sharpton moments before he interviewed Kamala?
	These are legitimate questions, but no, in the cult, you can't ask questions.
	And leaving the Democratic Party or even questioning the Democratic Party is like leaving a cult.
	It's terrifying.
	Yeah, Dave Rubin, I mean, that's actually really unpleasant to listen to, isn't it?
	I mean, the idea that a woman who her only crime was to try and raise money for a pretty hopeless candidate, and obviously that didn't work, but the idea that immediately she raises criticism, legitimate, and in my view, entirely correct criticism of the party, she is abused in that kind of horribly misogynistic and disgusting manner.
	What does that tell you about where we are?
	Sure.
	Well, I would say, Piers, we have a living, breathing example of that happening on this panel right now, which is that what she just illustrated there is a bunch of attacks on her character and her behavior and saying awful things, and you can describe them as misogynistic and all those things.
	Look at everything that Jank just said to me.
	These are just attacks, not on my beliefs, but on my character, which again, he couldn't illustrate one thing that I say that I don't believe.
	I came out, I woke up very early to the excesses of the left, what we now know as wokeness.
	I came out against identity politics, and I wanted to return America to what it was founded on, which was individual liberty and judging everyone by the content of their character, not the color of their skin.
	The progressive movement is wildly attached to something that brings everyone back to ancient hatred.
	So when you leave the left, as both of the ladies just pointed out, you will get unending hatred, usually having nothing to do with what you believe or you say.
	And again, I would just have anyone rewind the video and listen to the nonsense that Jenk said about me to prove that it still exists.
	Well, Ceng, I mean, you did launch a very aggressive ad hominem attack on Dave Rubin off the top, which was your decision to do that.
	But in relation to his specific question, Jenkins, can you say one thing that Dave Rubin believes in today that you don't think he believes?
	Donald Trump has YMCA.
	Isn't there a firefighter?
	Or before?
	Hold on, hold on.
	Hold on.
	Look, there's a couple of super important things to say here.
	First of all, in answering your question, look, Dave doesn't believe in any of the positions he believed in.
	Before he thought he believed in affirmative action, okay, affirmative action.
	And now he says it's the worst thing in the world.
	I've been in affirmative action.
	I evolved.
	I used to believe in identity policy.
	Okay, so you changed it.
	You asked me to say...
	Why can't you ask me to name something you changed on ideas?
	You're telling me I don't believe what I'm saying right now.
	You're calling me a sellout.
	I believe in you.
	Do you believe the Russian propaganda you were paid for?
	Oh, you are another.
	Do you believe the Russian propaganda you were paid for?
	I was not paid.
	Jenkin, I was not paid.
	You were paid $100,000 a video.
	Oh, my God, you clown.
	I would recommend anyone look into that to find out a bit more on that.
	Jenkins, how much did you think about this?
	And did I change my positions at all?
	Not 1%.
	Not 1%.
	Okay, can I just address this?
	What position do you think I have that I cannot explain myself?
	Jeffrey Katzenberg is in favor of...
	All right, Jeffrey Katzenberg is a good guy, but he's in favor of Hillary Clinton, Joe Biden, and Kamala Harris.
	I was against all three.
	What part of that is unclear?
	So look, Piers, there's some of the things that you're doing.
	Okay, but hang on, Cheng, here's my point.
Why The Left Left Me 00:10:19
	The point Dave Rubin is making is, why shouldn't he be allowed to go on an evolution of his views?
	And why does that mean that right now you can say to him, as you did, you don't believe anything you're saying or believe now, when actually it's completely possible that he 100% believes everything he now says because he's changed his mind.
	Why can't he do that?
	And why don't you believe him?
	I think that the left is scarred by people like Dave Rubin who had a complete change.
	For example, Tulsi Gabbard goes from total progressive to total right-winger.
	On the other hand, RFK Jr. didn't go to a total right-winger.
	He still believes the things that he believes about the environment, about housing, about corruption, et cetera.
	So you have to be able to distinguish between the people who are doing it professionally, as I hate the word grift, but whatever it is that you want to call it, and the people who have genuine disagreements and genuine nuance in their opinions.
	So for example, guys, there's three different branches of each party.
	There is the radical right, radical left, there's the populist left and populist right, and then there's the establishment of both parties.
	I despise the establishment with every fiber of my being.
	And I've been doing that same exact program for over 22 years, longest running show in internet history.
	And we've never wavered on that.
	But now the radical left, unfortunately, is doing what you're worried about, Piers.
	That the minute that they see anything where you say, I agree with the right, when they agree with us on something like anti-war, they go, oh my God, hold on, let me finish the thought.
	Let me finish the thought.
	And what people then say is, oh no, he's going to pull a Dave Rubin because these guys get paid to go fully right wing and then they'll throw their own people under the bus.
	So they'll pick a gay guy like Dave to throw gay people under the bus.
	If you see me going after Muslims, if you see me going after people that I never, that I've always supported, then you have an issue.
	But part of the, and this is not a pivot, guys, we've been fighting the radical left for two straight years now because they say absurd things like, hey, if the right wing agrees with us, we shouldn't do it anyway.
	We had somebody leave the network because they said everyone on the right wing is racist.
	If you agree with the right wing in anything, even if it's things that we agree on, that makes you racist and it hurts black bodies.
	See, that's absurd.
	That's insane.
	Of course it is.
	I mean, the idea is to bring it to a reasonable positive.
	The problem is that you and Dave Rubin probably agree with a lot more than you're prepared to ever admit.
	You just don't think his views are sincere because he's changed his mind on a number of positions.
	By the way, I used to think I was liberal.
	I have lied to you.
	He lied about us 20 times.
	I have nothing in common with modern work liberals.
	Zero.
	Let me bring Dave Smith back in.
	Let me bring Dave Smith back in.
	Dave, look, this is part of the problem, it seems to me, is that actually, if people stopped the ad hominem stuff, they could find a lot of common ground where I think there's been a very rapid repudiation of a lot of the nuttier progressive left stuff.
	And you're seeing America actually through Trump, albeit through his, he has his inflammatory rhetoric, but you're seeing America, I think, coming to a far more centrist place, actually, which is why he's managed to attract people from all different walks of life.
	I think that's what's going on.
	And you're seeing the people on the extremities beginning to look more and more irrelevant.
	You know, a lot of times it's about how we use these words and what they actually mean.
	I'm not sure that centrist is the right word, but I do think to your point, you know, when if you have people who call themselves liberals and they are blatantly opposed to free speech, which there are quite a lot.
	You know, this has been very normalized over the last 10 years, really over the last eight years.
	I don't mean to drive this into semantics, but what you're describing is not liberalism.
	I mean, this is just, and in a similar sense, like you, people who are, you know, anti-war or pro-free speech, the idea that that's considered like a right-wing position is just nutty.
	I mean, I think anybody who it's like at this point, then these words don't mean anything.
	I think that in many ways, whether you call something centrist or radical depends on the current environment, right?
	So like if you were in the middle of Adolf Hitler's rise in Nazi Germany, being, you know, it would be a pretty radical position to believe in like Jewish rights.
	That today in America is a very normal centrist position that almost everyone agrees with.
	So what Donald Trump, again, I think the more correct framing here is the establishment versus the dissidents.
	And if you think about everybody loves to brag about a convert.
	So when Dave Rubin goes from being kind of a progressive to being more of a classical liberal, everybody who's in that classical liberal camp loves that because they're like, look, see, this guy woke up and saw the light and he wants to be with us.
	And then the tendency of people who are in his old camp is to say, oh, no, no, no, he's sold out.
	I'm not reading anybody's mind.
	I don't know what I treat everyone.
	I take them at their word.
	The point is that look at who, look, Kamala Harris was bragging about the Republicans that she had supporting her, right?
	But who were the Republicans that were supporting Kamala Harris?
	It was Dick Cheney and his daughter.
	And you know what I'm saying?
	Like all the establishment Republicans are the ones who joined Tim.
	Who did Donald Trump get?
	Well, they were all of the dissidents.
	And, you know, Tulsi Gabbard, again, Jake, I get your point.
	I mean, she has changed on several of her views, but might that have something to do with the fact that when she stood up and criticized the war in Iraq, the blood-soaked monster who sent her there called her a traitor to her country for that.
	And so when you have that type of dynamic and you get viciously smeared in that way, what tends to happen is people go to a different group and they start listening to that other group.
	And maybe they get compelled by some of the arguments.
	Now, I'm not disagreeing with you that it's also true that you always have to guard against audience capture and perverse incentives and things like that.
	We all have to fight that force all the time.
	But it's also true that, you know, I remember because I'm a stand-up comedian after Louis C.K. got in trouble.
	And when he started coming back, they started insulting the people who were buying tickets to see him.
	And then they started saying that Louis C.K. only plays for right-wing audiences now.
	But their definition of right-wing was anyone who wants to buy a ticket to go see him still.
	So it's just like, what happens is that if one group is saying, you're a monster, we hate you, you're a traitor to our country, you should be punished forever.
	And the other group is saying, hey, we like your point on that, people tend to go toward the path of less resistance and find a new home.
	Yeah.
	But I would also say there's something deeper there, which is that people on the right are much more willing to agree to disagree.
	So you can talk to people.
	RFK, he was running as a Democrat.
	And what happened?
	He got virtually nothing but hate from the lefties.
	By the way, for the record, I debated because RFK was for affirmative action when he was running for president.
	I'm not.
	We debated it on my show.
	So I can clearly lay out my beliefs on that.
	And he sort of at the end of it kind of admitted that I was right.
	You don't solve perceived former discrimination with discrimination of today.
	But what you will consistently find, what I know my good friend Amala has found over the years, is that as you wake up and you leave the progressive plantation, what you will find is people on the right that you're told are evil and scary, like Dennis Prager and Glenn Beck and Bill O'Reilly and all these people, that you may not agree with them on everything, but they will break bread with you.
	They will be generous of time and spirit.
	And you will consistently find that.
	And there's almost no version of that on the left.
	That is just simply true.
	And again, there's a living, breathing example of it right here.
	Well, let me bring Amara in on that because actually I'm going to, Jake, I'll come back to you.
	Hang on.
	Let me bring Amara in on that because I've had the same experience.
	I find that I've interviewed a lot of people that I always felt were certainly way more right-wing than I'd ever been.
	And I really enjoy talking to them.
	I had really good conversations and I could argue with them about XYZ and agree with them about this, this, and this.
	And the common ground was all the mad progressive left stuff, which most of it was nutty.
	But it was also based, Amala, on something you've picked up on, which is a denial of truth.
	And that was the key thing for me when I saw the progressive left trying to convince me that it was perfectly okay for trans women, for example, to compete in women's sport because they're women.
	When in fact, we all know they are biological men and I respect their fact that they want to be trans women.
	That's fine.
	And if they want to be called she or her or whatever, that's fine too.
	What you can't do is erode women's rights at the altar of this movement.
	And that is where I realized the left were losing their minds and losing their track on reality.
	And you said it was basically a denial of truth generally.
	Was that one of the things that you would say was an example?
	Oh, yeah, absolutely.
	I mean, I had tons of motivations for changing my political ideology and rethinking things.
	Number one, being the gay firefighters.
	That was the first thing that really started things up for me.
	But I think it's a combination of, yes, with that example that you just used of this trans issue and in Title IX, we are failing to acknowledge how far left, the progressive left has moved.
	And that's a big factor.
	You know, a lot of people say, I didn't leave the left, the left left me.
	And you're sort of standing in your positions and watching as people become more and more extreme.
	And for me, farther away from the truth and reality.
	Now, you couple that with this feeling of being lied to in that you've dedicated yourself to this ideology.
	You've worked to promote these ideas and then you feel abandoned by this group.
	So we're building an equation here.
	On top of that, we have the other things that our panelists have mentioned.
	The smear campaigns, the attack that you get on the other end of even just trying to raise your hand and get a question in is just absolutely insane.
Birthday Smear Campaigns 00:02:24
	And then you mix in a little bit of the acceptance that you get from the other side as soon as you're willing to hear them out and maybe accept some of their ideas.
	And you have a wicked combination for somebody really steering themselves in the complete opposite direction when it comes to their ideology.
	Now, I think if we're going to keep our logic intact, what you have to do is take in all the factors of that equation, sort of swallow it and stomach it for a little bit, and then meet the ideas where they're at and hope that you're being logically consistent without all these other factors of the acceptance and the smear campaigns and the hatred and the feeling of being lied to and hope that you're driving yourselves closer towards the truth.
	As you're saying all that, Mediite has come out with its annual list of most influential people in global news media.
	Last year, I was thrilled to be 20th on this coveted list.
	I've just been informed I'm now number 15.
	Joe Rogan is second.
	Elon Musk is first.
	And the citation for Uncensored, I rather like this.
	It says, ever wonder what it might look like if Mehdi Hassan and Sarah Palin went at it?
	How about Chen Uger and Douglas Murray?
	Piers Morgan Uncensored has you covered.
	Morgan is poised to thrive over the next four years at the center of the action.
	I can't actually think of a better panel to be here as I read that citation out because this is exactly what I'm trying to do.
	And funny enough, Joe Rogan, funny enough, had a little pop at me the other day.
	Not in a bad way, but he said that he finds it all a bit too noisy for debates we do.
	He prefers one-on-one.
	And I do a lot of one-on-ones too.
	But the reason I like this is I do think that when we get through it into the real nitty-gritty of what's going on in the world, bringing smart people together to thrash it out is a really valuable thing.
	And there should be more of it, not less.
	Lindy, let me just ask you before we, I want to pivot to another topic, but just I'm horrified by what you've been through.
	And I'm really sorry you've had to go through that.
	I've had a lot of it myself.
	I always think the person.
	It was my birthday too, by the way.
	Well, happy birthday.
	And I'm really, well, happy birthday.
	I was fucked to you on your birthday.
	It was my worst birthday of my life.
	Yeah.
	And it's, you know what?
	It's just, it's utterly graceless, never mind anything else.
	But you'll be stronger for it and better for it.
	And I think you've been an important voice in this because the Democrats need people on their own side to put their hand up and go, hey, guys, here's the problem, right?
	You may not agree with anything I'm about to tell you, but you've got to hear it.
	And there is a stench of loss.
Citizens Dying For Profit 00:06:43
	I would go further.
	There's a stench of political death about the Democrats.
	Looking at Biden, still the Democrat president, barely able to string a sentence together, looking at Carmela Harris popping up when nobody wants her to try to tell people to fight.
	You just tried to fight and you barreled $2 billion down the drain in being crushed by Trump.
	But Lindy, before we change the topic to the last one, where do you see this going?
	What are the Democrats going to do?
	Are they going to carry on villainizing people like you?
	Or do you think that the coffee is going to get smelled at some stage and they're actually going to wake up and find a candidate that is more electable and find people like you a place in that tent to try and drive to an election victory?
	Pierce, I don't want that.
	I don't want to be a part of this tent.
	I don't want to be a part of this craziness anymore.
	They're accelerating my rightward shift.
	I don't want this nonsense.
	It's just crazy.
	And honestly, they're shrinking their tent.
	They're basically telling me to like, they're pushing me to bring my tens of millions of dollars that I've raised and can continue to raise to a different team that treats me better, that treats me with just common decency, that doesn't call me a communist spy.
	By the way, the communist regime in China killed my great-grandfather.
	They don't know my family's history.
	This is the first time I'm really saying it on air.
	They are calling me a spy for the regime that killed my great-grandfather.
	Let's just soak in, let that soak in just for a second.
	That's how disgraceful they are.
	And these are the people who call themselves the social justice warriors.
	They are dabbling.
	They are going headfirst into racism anytime someone dares to disagree with them.
	I don't want to be a part of this nonsense anymore.
	I want to be a part of the team that says men are men and women are women and that men shouldn't play in women's sports.
	And I'm an athlete myself.
	I'm a marathon runner.
	I don't want to run against a man.
	I know I'm going to get trounced.
	That's just biology.
	It's science.
	Of course.
	It's not politics.
	Of course.
	And it always has been just a matter of clear, obvious fact.
	And people who've tried to defend it, smart people who've tried to defend it, have been disingenuous at best and actually disgraceful liars to themselves and the world at worst, because what they've allowed is this to continue to the point where we had that farce at the Paris Olympics when somebody who's got male chromosomes reportedly, but it was pretty obvious, battered one female boxer into submission after 45 seconds.
	And the poor boxer said she had to quit because she'd never been hit that hard in her life.
	Ridiculous.
	People will die.
	It's ridiculous.
	People will die at the altar of this bullshit.
	I want to just pivot to, well, we've got a few more minutes.
	This is the story of the shooting of the CEO of the healthcare company, Brian Thompson.
	And something that the NYPD commissioner, Jessica Tish, said yesterday.
	Take a look at this.
	Let me say this plainly.
	There is no heroism in what Mangioni did.
	This was a senseless act of violence.
	It was a cold and calculated crime that stole a life and put New Yorkers at risk.
	We don't celebrate murders and we don't lionize the killing of anyone.
	Cheng, a report came out that said a huge number of young people in America were actually fully on board with this hot assassin and approved of what he'd done.
	To which I replied on X effing morons, which is what I believe they are.
	What does he come to in society?
	Putting aside legitimate concerns about the healthcare system.
	And I have more than any of you, by the way, because I live in a country where healthcare is free for everybody.
	And if you came over here and fell over and broke your leg, you'd get world-class free healthcare and no one would be over you asking for a payment for the bill.
	So I have strong views about it.
	But that's got nothing to do with the cold-blooded execution of an executive.
	And this hero worship of this guy, Luigi Maggiani, he's not a hero, is he?
	So, Piers, I abhor violence.
	And you know that on every topic, including Israel, guys, I always say the same thing, which is violence is both deeply immoral and deeply counterproductive.
	It's a surrender in the battlefield of ideas.
	So, but as you see that poll, Piers, you can call them morons, and I disagree with them.
	So I understand your frustration.
	But at the same time, if you ignore why they're having this unusual a reaction to a killing, you're making a mistake.
	And the reason they're having that reaction is because we live under corporate rule.
	And now both right and left hate that corporate rule.
	And health insurance is an excellent example of it.
	According to studies, 76,000 people die every year because they don't have health insurance, because they can't afford privatized health insurance.
	So the core job of the government is to protect us, military, police, firefighters.
	And yes, health insurance saves our lives.
	We're the only nation on earth that doesn't have universal health care.
	We let our own citizens die for profit.
	So that is the frustration that has built up, built up, and now being shown in an unproductive way through this killing and the support of the guy who did the killing.
	But if you don't go address that massive health insurance problem, you're going to get more and more of this and you can get angrier and angrier and we can all go into our separate camps.
	But that's not going to solve it.
	What's going to solve it is ending corporate rule.
	And the number one issue is that the establishment takes money from those corporate donors and serves their corporate donors.
	Both Trump and Kamala Harris.
	Kamala Harris took $700,000 from the health insurance industry to make sure that nothing fundamentally changed.
	That is a core problem.
	And if you're a Democrat or you're on the left and you push people out for saying things that are true, all you're going to get is a weaker and weaker party.
	Let's address the root causes.
	All right.
	Dave Rubin, the poll was by Emerson College.
	41% of 18 to 29-year-olds believe Thompson's murder was acceptable.
	The cold-blooded murder of a man, a husband, a father of two kids in midtown Manhattan is acceptable because he happened to be an executive at a healthcare company and they disagree with some of the policies.
	I mean, if it comes to that, then if that is taken and extrapolated across the country, that's the future generation now in America.
Redefining Political Violence 00:15:16
	They think the murdering executives from companies whose opinions you don't like is now acceptable.
	America's in a very dark place.
	Yeah, well, I can basically give you Jenks' answer without the but.
	There's no butt there.
	It doesn't matter what you're aggrieved about.
	Everyone is aggrieved about something.
	Everyone has been wronged by somebody, a former employer, a health insurance agent, a doctor, a former boyfriend, girlfriend, whatever it might be.
	You cannot take the law into your own hands, period.
	If you wonder why so many people think that violence is okay, again, I would only point at the progressives who for the last decade have been calling everybody racists and bigots and saying this country is run by white supremacists and capitalism is evil and the very founding of America is evil.
	And then they telling them that climate change is going to cause the world to end in six years and a litany about and that their genitals don't match their gender.
	All of these things have led to a certain psychosis in young people that's also connected to the endless doom scrolling on the phone and social media, which made everyone much more anti-social than social.
	But if you tell everybody that the boogeyman's coming to get you everywhere at all times and you live in a horrible place with evil people who want to kill you, then you are going to have a mass mental health problem and it's going to lead to people doing horrible things.
	But the second you do what Jank just did there, which is but, so okay, we've got all kinds of problems, but, well, then congratulations.
	Anyone can go out there and kill anybody because everybody's got a reason to be aggrieved.
	We are a nation of law and order or not.
	It's as simple as that.
	Yeah, I mean, Dave Smith, I actually agree with that.
	I think the moment you equivocate when you talk about something like this, you are opening the floodgates for everyone to equivocate, whatever their cause is, whatever their gripe is.
	The moment you start saying, well, that murder was terrible, but in other words, trying to find an explanation for why it's not as shocking and heinous and disgusting as it obviously was, I think you're on a very slippery slope, whatever it is.
	Well, yeah, I would certainly agree that, and I've seen a disturbing amount of it online and stuff like that.
	And so, look, like, obviously, it's horrible to execution style kill somebody.
	And the whole premise of Western civilization and the Enlightenment and everything that we should consider good and advanced in civilization is that even if that guy was guilty of horrendous crimes, well, he gets a judge in a robe and a lawyer in a suit, and he gets to present his defense before he is convicted by a jury of his peers.
	You know, like the idea that you can just execute, first of all, it's evil.
	And also, no matter what side of it you're on, the outcome of vigilanteism like this is just chaos and an awful place to live.
	I do think, though, that for us, for people who feel that way, we should look at a poll like that and have a lot of questions.
	And I don't think that like, I don't think Dave is completely off.
	I think there has certainly been a bunch of toxic garbage that has come to dominate university life that is very bad for young people's minds.
	I will say, though, that as a society, we have put the young people in this country in an awful position in many ways where they do have legitimate grievances.
	Now, I'm not saying that justifies supporting anybody being executed like this, but the truth is that the big banks and the government got in business to prop up this college, which is essentially a government program at this point.
	The loans are given out by the government after many years of them being guaranteed by the government.
	We've cattle carted these young people into going into six figures in debt while they learn, for the most part, garbage.
	They come out of this.
	They're working at Starbucks.
	They're 150 grand in debt.
	My grandfather, in a much poorer, much less advanced economy, could go wait on the line and get a job after high school and support his wife who didn't have to work and raise their kids and have two cars and own a home.
	There is simply no path toward that for a huge portion of young people.
	And if we don't address that and we don't try to fix this situation, I think we're going to be looking at this very disturbing reality where more and more young people kind of celebrate the person who just went out and made what they're, from their perception, somebody who was like in the establishment or in the winning class made them pay.
	I'd also add very quickly that in the middle of that, just to add insult to injury, we still have Social Security, which is considered like a third rail that nobody, even the Republicans, will dare mention trimming at all, which is nothing but a wealth transfer program from these young people to a much richer group who have higher net worths and higher incomes and a lifetime of saving.
	The way young people have been screwed over in this society is very disturbing.
	And so again, I just to be clear, Pierce, I'm not equivocating and saying like, oh, that's why it's okay that some of them are celebrating this.
	But I think we should recognize this.
	Yeah, Amarlo, what are your thoughts on this?
	Yeah, I agree with what Dave Smith just said.
	We should recognize the problems that are maybe underlying in this guy's motivation.
	I obviously don't think that retributive justice is the answer in any way, shape, or form.
	But to somebody else's point, I think somebody said the response to this has been sort of unusual or dramatic.
	I kind of want to push back on that.
	I feel like this is becoming a common response to anybody who, you know, we disagree with losing their life.
	I think for a lot of us on this panel, maybe one sentence that we've said on this show today will now lead us to our deaths being celebrated.
	You know, God forbid they happen.
	And it's a really interesting sort of common response that we're seeing in today's time.
	I'm reminded of the Titanic submersible.
	Now, that wasn't an assassination, but those people dying was celebrated all across the internet in a very disturbing fashion.
	And I think it's about this sort of redefinition of violence that we're experiencing right now.
	Your words are violence now.
	Your actions are violence.
	Your silence is violence.
	This CEO, the violence that he was committing on the daily basis was being a CEO.
	And I think that redefinition is really taking root, specifically in young people.
	And when you mix that with the agitation they feel over their economic standards, the world that they're living in, the society that is increasingly becoming sick, we're going to see, unfortunately, more of these actions take root.
	Yeah, I think you make some great points.
	Lindy, final word to you.
	Yeah, and you know what's really rich?
	Leftists love to talk about gun violence.
	And I am a huge advocate for gun safety.
	But where was that?
	Where was that energy when this happened?
	Suddenly it didn't matter at all.
	Suddenly they were worshiping at the altar of Luigi with no mention of guns, no mention of ghost guns, which is one of their favorite topics.
	But all of a sudden, you can hear a pin drop because no one is mentioning it.
	And I do want to mention, if this guy weren't hot, there wouldn't be this mass hysteria around him.
	I think a lot of people.
	If he'd executed a female executive, there wouldn't have been the same reaction, right?
	It was the fact that he was a guy who was a middle-aged white guy executive.
	He fitted the narrative they wanted, which was, yeah, perfect hate figure for the whole hell.
	And we learned he wasn't even a client of United Healthcare.
	Neither was his mom.
	Yeah, I think this guy, Mangio, is a total fraud.
	And the idea that he's some kind of Pied Piper Robin Hood figure, forget it.
	He's just a cold-blooded killer with a twisted mind who thought he'd make a name for himself.
	Got to leave it there.
	Merry Christmas to all of you.
	What a great panel that was.
	You can say that again, right?
	Merry Christmas, guys.
	Merry Christmas.
	We can say that again without being cancelled.
	The mere fact we're all still here means the canceled culture is dying.
	And thank God for that.
	Thank you all very much.
	And I hope to see you all again next year.
	My next guest is one of President Trump's most loyal supporters in Congress.
	Like the man himself, she's no stranger to controversy.
	Like the man himself, she doesn't seem to care.
	Colorado Congresswoman Lauren Boebert has been comfortably re-elected for another two-year term.
	Here are some highlights of her first.
	So I'll ask again, did you shadow ban my account?
	Yes or no?
	Again, not to the best of my recollection.
	So the answer is, Mr. Roth, yes, you did.
	I found out last night from Twitter staff that you suppressed my account for this tweet.
	It's a freaking joke about Hillary Clinton being angry that she couldn't rig her election.
	Who the hell do you think that you are?
	Do you continue to assert the slope of the roof as a credible reason for leaving this position undefended?
	There was no order to hold fire.
	Our agents and officers have the ability to neutralize a threat.
	You need to be fired.
	You do not need to hold this position.
	You are not the best for this job.
	And then you take this microphone.
	I've also seen the coal plants that have been decommissioned in my state.
	The coal plants.
	I've seen the energy regulations that have regulated my district into poverty.
	Well, I've disagreed myself with a congresswoman on some key issues in the past, but in the spirit of Christmas and for an insider's view of Trump 2.0, I'm very pleased to say that she joins me now.
	Well, welcome to you.
	Ms. Bober, welcome to One Censor finally.
	Pierce, it is wonderful to be on here with you.
	And, you know, when you're going to bring in some of my highlights, I didn't know exactly where you were going, but I'm kind of proud of those moments there.
	Well, you know what?
	Listen, fair play to you.
	You've been a firecracker congresswoman, no doubt about that.
	Sometimes I've cheered you on.
	Other times I've cringed, but you're always making a lot of an impact.
	But more importantly, you've also been incredibly steadfastly loyal to Donald Trump.
	And I would imagine right now, I mean, I was watching the scenes at Mar-a-Lago last few days with the world's great good, including many of his former enemies, all trotting down there to pay homage to the king.
	It's been a quite remarkable thing, hasn't it, since the election, the scale of the win and the way really that the world is now just gravitating to Donald Trump.
	How do you feel about it?
	Well, President Trump was announced as Time Magazine's person of the year, but America decided that he was our person of the year on November 5th.
	He won the Electoral College.
	He won the popular vote.
	We have the House.
	We have the Senate.
	He's rightfully returning to the White House.
	And yes, many people are visiting Mar-a-Lago during the season, but also they haven't stopped visiting Mar-a-Lago for four years.
	I've been there multiple times and I have seen the same crowds.
	And those who did turn their back on President Trump, well, they're probably not going to be welcomed back as quickly this go-around.
	I will be at the same event with President Trump in Arizona.
	And, you know, it's really exciting that he is still engaging with so many Americans.
	He doesn't have to go to rallies.
	He doesn't have to go to events and show up for Charlie Kirk in Turning Point USA.
	He wants to.
	He wants to engage with the people.
	It really just ignites him and keeps him motivated and going.
	And that's what makes President Trump so special.
	He will go to the forgotten voters.
	He will go where the political pundits and the consultants say, don't waste your time going there.
	He showed up to Aurora, Colorado.
	He showed up in Colorado when he knows that he was not going to win Colorado and still said, you're worth it.
	I'm going to highlight what's going on here and I'm going to show up for you.
	Yeah, he definitely did that.
	He put the yards in.
	I mean, his work rate, especially in the last year, was absolutely extraordinary.
	And, you know, I think in life, you get back what you put in.
	And he certainly did that.
	It was one of the parts of the clips that we showed of you in action was roasting the now long and unlamented head of the Secret Service.
	How concerned are you about his safety?
	I mean, I found not just the shooting itself, the first one where he got shot and hit, incredibly disturbing with how easy that that was to execute from that shooter.
	But the fact that just a few weeks later, he very nearly got killed at his golf course and how lax it all seemed there, despite the fact he just literally survived an assassination attempt.
	I'm genuinely concerned that he has not been protected properly.
	Are you happy that he now will be?
	Of course I'm happy that he will have better protection now.
	I was one of the many voices who were highlighting how unsafe he was and that he did not have the security that he was requesting and required.
	And that's very obvious.
	But look, in this election cycle, they tried everything they could to stop him, whether that's indicting him, convicting him, trying to financially ruin him, slandering him, or trying to kill him.
	Everything was pulled out to stop this man from being president once again.
	And he overcame all of that.
	And so I'm certainly happy that the director stepped down.
	She resigned immediately following the hearing that we had in the oversight committee where Democrats and Republicans were going after her for her lack of accountability and responsibility at really keeping President Trump and others safe.
	But I am excited about President Trump's cabinet picks.
	And I would love to see someone like Dan Bongino be in charge of the United States Secret Service.
	Well, that would certainly be interesting.
	I like the disruptive element of these cabinet picks.
	I think the establishment way of doing things actually no longer resonates with the public, but not just in America, but around the world you're seeing it, where you're seeing a lot of people winning elections who are just a little bit different.
	I think of the guy in Argentina, you think of the prime minister in Italy, you think of all these people that they're just a little bit different.
	Salvador.
	Yeah, and they're just kind of, they're kind of different.
	They don't behave or act or think even like regular establishment political figures.
	I'm kind of in favor of that.
	Absolutely.
	And that's why we saw President Trump get elected in the 2016 election.
	That's why you've seen people like me, like myself, get elected, because people are tired of these smooth talking politicians who have all of the right talking points and they get home, they promise one thing, but then whenever they're at the place you sent them and trusted them to be, they do something completely different.
	They don't govern as they campaign and they're more interested in appeasing lobbyists and special interest groups or even leadership within their own party.
	I see that all the time in Washington, D.C.
	And even as we have a large group of freshmen coming in to the new Congress, I'm hearing the same old things.
	Well, this is how we do things around here.
	This is how we've always done them.
Congress Failing To Govern 00:03:49
	Well, guess what?
	America hates the way we've always done things.
	America hates that we spend a trillion dollars at a time and don't even read the bill.
	We have to pass the bill to find out what's in it.
	America hates the omnibus bills where we put all of the federal spending into one piece of legislation where it's one up or down vote and we just rubber stamp the entire funding of our federal government without any real accountability and going through that line item programmatic spending.
	I fought in the speaker's race in 2020 to end that, to have 12 individual appropriations bills, to have 72 hours to read a bill, to have single subject legislation.
	And that's what us disruptors are doing.
	And I'm so happy that President Trump is continuing to choose those who will disrupt the norm, who are not a part of the establishment.
	He really does want to drain the swamp and he has seen what's at the bottom of the swamp.
	And when you begin to drain it, well, all of those creatures start showing their teeth and hissing and wailing and snapping at you.
	And I think it's time now to drain it once and for all.
	And he's got the right people to do that.
	Do you think, I mean, my gut feeling is that every remaining pick of his is going to get confirmed.
	Is that your sense?
	Absolutely.
	Of course, there were talks of Pete Hegseth not getting confirmed, but I think that is far gone away with now.
	It's done away with and Pete Hegseth will be confirmed.
	And I won't be surprised that all of his picks get confirmed.
	He has great people who are motivated to save our country.
	I'm excited for the Doge Commission that was created.
	Now, Pierce.
	It's a little frustrating to me at times to have this Doge Commission, but I'm so excited to have a Vivek Ramaswamy and Elon Musk heading it up because they are powerful voices in America.
	And it's frustrating because, you know, having this oversight and accountability and looking into the spending of tax dollars and all of these federal agencies, well, we used to call that Congress.
	But apparently, since Congress isn't doing that, we need to.
	I agree.
	I think Elon and Vivek are going to be doing exactly what the people expected Congress to do, but which they've spectacularly failed to do, which is why government spending has been running out of control for decades now.
	Yes, we're at $36 trillion in debt.
	We have nearly a $2 trillion annual deficit, and we have got to get the spending under control.
	But the thing is, I have people in my own party who will stand before the Doge Commission, the Department of Government Efficiency, and they will stand before them and say, save us from ourselves.
	These are the people who have been voting for this spending, voting to keep the unauthorized programs, voting to keep the agencies and even the positions within the agencies.
	And now they're going to stand before them and say, oh, well, you have to do something about it.
	No, this is our responsibility.
	And Congress better work with Elon and Vivek if we're going to get this done, because Congress can very easily get in their way as well.
	Yeah, no question.
	Now, listen, when I talk to you now for the first time, you seem relatively normal, sane of mind.
	You're making a lot of sense.
	And yet other people would categorize you as a completely unhinged lunatic.
	We've heard the same thing about Donald Trump.
	I detect he's a slightly changed character.
	The Trump 2.0 is a little bit calmer.
	He's got the validation now of the American people.
	He's got the mandate that he's always craved, obviously.
	He just seems to me less combative because people are not punching him in the face all day long.
	Are you, Lauren Bobbert?
	Are you also now?
	Are you a slightly reformed character?
	Are we going to see a different, slightly more cuddly and warm Lauren Bobbert in 2.0 or not?
Trump Two Point Zero 00:02:11
	So, well, Pierce, I think that this is how I've always been.
	But just as you said, when you're getting punched in the face, you have to punch back.
	And I learned very quickly in Washington, D.C. that nothing happens here without force.
	I need to get the public engaged and speaking out.
	I cannot allow them to remain silent on issues because when we're silent, we lose by default.
	And I have to have really their backing in a lot of the stuff that I do, or it's going to be like talking to a brass wall here in Washington, D.C. Leadership cares what the American people say.
	And so my job is to inform them of what's going on and really get them to move on an issue.
	Now, when I got here, I had to be scrappy.
	I took out a five-term Republican incumbent.
	It was the first time in 48 years that an incumbent from either party had lost an election in Colorado, a primary election.
	And I beat this guy by 10 points because I said, I'm tired of the way things are.
	And so are you.
	I know you are because I'm one of you.
	And so I had to have this really this big bang on the scenes to be taken seriously.
	But I had a lot to say and a lot that I wanted to do.
	There's a lot of legislation that I have worked on.
	And that's one of my favorite parts of this job.
	Pierce, I have this niche little zip code bill that is the biggest deal to me.
	Here in America, the post office can just take away the recognition of a zip code from a city.
	And with that comes serious consequences like losing tax revenue, insurance rates for homeowners, or even emergency response times, and so much more.
	And the post office won't acknowledge petitions of the cities who are trying to get their unique zip code redesignated by the post office.
	And so I made it an act of Congress.
	And now we are actively working in the Senate to get 51 communities, their zip codes to be recognized by the United States Postal Service.
	And this is the stuff that I'm passionate about.
	I want energy development.
	I want deregulation.
	I want a secure border.
	And I want to ensure that Coloradans have exactly what they sent me to get.
Blank Checks And Borders 00:05:27
	I want them to have more water storage and managed forests.
	And these are the things that I work on that you're not going to hear about on CNN or even Fox for that matter.
	Okay.
	Let's find something where I disagree with you passionately about to end on because it's all been way too chummy so far.
	We're starting to be friends here.
	Let's not get ahead of ourselves.
	I know it's Christmas.
	So we've got the inauguration coming.
	President Zelensky from Ukraine is apparently going to attend.
	You were, along with Matt Gates, two of the Congress people who refused to stand or applaud when Zelensky addressed Congress.
	Would you have applauded or stood up for Vladimir Putin if he'd been speaking?
	So I do believe that I did stand when he entered, but there were many things that he said that I absolutely did not stand for.
	You know, on the contrary, there have been things that I've stood and applauded Joe Biden for.
	And so it just depends on the topic there.
	But was I going to jump up and down for joy as Zelensky is walking into the United States House of Representatives in a sweatshirt and just awaiting for his next check to be signed by Joe Biden?
	We've sent over $200 billion or right around $200 billion.
	And Joe Biden is still wanting to send more money to Ukraine with no plan to end this war, with no end in sight until President Trump won this election.
	And so, no, I was not very excited that he was there to beg us.
	But I don't have interest.
	I don't think you could hammer a guy who's a wartime president for wearing wartime fatigues.
	I mean, he's going straight back literally to war.
	I think a pullover sweatshirt is wartime attire.
	Well, he wasn't in a flat jacket.
	He was in a sweatshirt.
	I don't think it really matters that he's whether he's in a suit or not.
	Here's what I, my point.
	Here's what I'm saying.
	Here's my point to you, Lauren.
	Is this.
	Whenever I hear, and there's a large number of Republicans that say the same sort of stuff.
	And I'm always like, it's such a weird thing to hear because like 30 years ago, it would have been unthinkable for any Republicans to go on the record, you know, basically looking like they're siding with Putin against a sovereign democratic European country that Putin had invaded.
	The idea that you would be effectively saying, well, give the Russian dictator what he wants, I would have thought would have been unthinkable.
	So why do you guys seem so relaxed about the idea of a Russian dictator marauding around Europe, helping himself to land that isn't his?
	Well, Putin's asking us for a heck of a lot less money than Zelensky is.
	And it's really not citing.
	What about our freedom here?
	That has been my number one argument.
	America first.
	We have our own invasion taking place now, not only at the southern border and the northern border, but also in the air.
	You can do two things at once in the United States.
	No, absolutely not.
	If we do not secure our country, there will not be an America to stand for our allies.
	I've even disagree with you about that.
	Hang on, hang on.
	On that, I agree with you about the southern border, but that's nothing to do with Ukraine.
	It has everything to do with it.
	I'm just curious why you would be so relaxed about Putin possibly winning that war.
	Why would you not want to repel him with every fiber of your being?
	When this first started, I was in support of us helping Ukraine.
	But then when I saw that there was no accountability for the tax dollars that we were sending over there, that there was no plan to end this war, that we were literally funding both sides of the war through bad energy policies, that Joe Biden had declared an all-out war on our energy production.
	He was draining our petroleum reserves, our emergency strategic petroleum reserves in the name of a midterm election.
	And we were continuing to just shell out billions and billions of dollars to Ukraine without taking care of our people who were unable to afford groceries or fuel and were encountering this invasion at our southern border.
	Every state has become a border state.
	Colorado has been negatively impacted.
	Crime has gone up.
	Our police are being defunded to care for illegal aliens.
	I'm done with that.
	I'm done with all of these wars.
	Hang on.
	America can afford to do both things at once.
	I don't see there's any connection.
	Of course they can.
	Wait, where's our money?
	We are literally.
	You are literally the richest superpower in the world.
	We are literally spending Chinese money to do this.
	We are borrowing money from China to send to Ukraine and other countries.
	Okay, so what is your solution?
	Is your solution that you just give Putin what he's stolen?
	No, my solution is peace through strength.
	And that's exactly what President Trump is going to bring back.
	There were no new wars under President Trump.
	But how does it end?
	President Trump, his strength will end this war.
	But how?
	Because he does have a great relationship with Putin.
	And those are negotiations that they are.
	But how do you think it should end?
	Well, it's not just throwing more money at it.
	It's not just enriching the military industrial.
	Do you let Putin keep what he thinks?
	That is their deal to make.
	And I believe that President Trump will do that.
	My job is to be a good steward of the American tax dollars.
	And I'm not going to continue to write blank checks.
	I've even voted against our strongest ally, Israel.
A Fresh Christmas Start 00:01:38
	I love Israel.
	I stand for Israel.
	I believe in them.
	But when it's deficit spending, when we are sending billions and billions of dollars that we do not have and we aren't paying for it, we aren't cutting spending or cutting any programs to cover the cost.
	I can't approve that.
	Okay.
	Final question.
	How are you spending your Christmas?
	I am spending my Christmas with my four boys, my grandson and my mom.
	I'll have brothers and cousins all around as well, and nieces and nephews.
	So actually, one of the most special things that took place this month, we weren't going to have a Christmas tree.
	Now I've had a fresh start in life.
	My boys and I moved to the eastern part of Colorado, and it's been a year of new beginnings, a wonderful fresh start.
	And we've spent a lot of time making our house a home.
	But I spent so much time getting this house ready.
	I didn't really want to go out and buy Christmas decorations and we're not going to be there on Christmas Day.
	And so I told the boys we weren't going to have a Christmas tree.
	And last week, when I came home from work in Washington, D.C., I walked into our home to find a beautifully decorated Christmas tree that my boys surprised me with.
	Fantastic.
	And it was wonderful.
	So I will be with them this Christmas and we'll be celebrating the life of Jesus, the birth of Jesus, and knowing that we could celebrate Easter in just a few short months.
	And without the resurrection, it's all futile.
	Well, there's certainly been some big resurrections in the last few months already.
	Not least Donald J. Trump.
	Lauren Bober, nice to have you on our sensor.
	Come back soon.
	Yes.
	Thanks so much, Pierce.
	Great chatting with you.
	Take care.
	All the best.

Chapters

00:00:00 The MAGA Accusation
00:14:53 Wiggling Into The Middle
00:29:57 Why The Left Left Me
00:40:17 Birthday Smear Campaigns
00:42:41 Citizens Dying For Profit
00:49:25 Redefining Political Violence
01:04:42 Congress Failing To Govern
01:08:31 Trump Two Point Zero
01:10:42 Blank Checks And Borders
01:16:09 A Fresh Christmas Start