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Dec. 10, 2024 - Uncensored - Piers Morgan
33:27
20241210_daniel-penny-acquitted-and-healthcare-ceo-murder-s
Transcriber: nvidia/parakeet-tdt-0.6b-v2, sat-12l-sm, and large-v3-turbo
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Time Text
Mental Illness and Heroism 00:14:14
So should they all be killed then?
Should they all be killed, these healthcare executives?
Would that make you even more joyful?
No, that would not.
Why not?
Why not?
Because it doesn't.
You seem to find the whole thing hilarious.
I find your question.
A book's been murdered in the street.
I don't find it funny at all.
The planned killing of a civilian by a ruthless assassin would usually provoke outrage from everybody, no matter their politics.
But that's not what happened when this hooded man shot dead Brian Thompson, the CEO of United Healthcare, which is the biggest health insurer in the United States.
The assassin left behind three bullets scrawled with the words depose, deny, and defend.
Reaction in some quarters has been almost celebratory.
I saw someone say this is like finding out about Robin Hood in the 1300s.
Like every new update that comes from this guy, I'm like, that's so sick.
Deny, depose, defend.
If that isn't a loud, clear message to all these CEOs across the board of these health insurance companies, I don't know what is.
We feel like we're living parallel lives with the elite in our country.
When you see the entire internet, left and right, united around one thing, and that is celebrating, I hate to say it too, the death of a healthcare CEO, you have to ask why.
And I don't think that has been discussed at all.
Well, we'll discuss that tonight because critics of this eyebrow-raising response to a murder, cold-blooded execution, included Ben Shapiro this weekend, who said it's evidence that leftist revolutionary violence has now become mainstream.
There was a notably different response on the left to the case of Daniel Penny, who was charged with manslaughter after the violent homeless man he was trained on the subway tragically died.
Well, today, just before we came on air, Daniel Penny walked free from court, not guilty of either manslaughter or criminally negligent homicide.
And in further breaking news, authorities say they're now questioning a man in central Pennsylvania who was found with a gun similar to the one used in the shooting of Brian Thompson.
The man being held was also in possession of a two-page document railing against the healthcare industry and suggesting that violence is the answer.
Well, the New York Times says Luigi Mangione, an anti-capitalist former Ivy League student, was taken into custody this morning at a McDonald's.
Here to discuss all this is Taylor Lorenz, author of the User Mag news site on Substack, Tommy Lehran, host of Tommy Lehran is Fearless on Outkick, and a Professor Mark Lamont Hill, host of Bet News.
Well, welcome to all of you.
I want to start with the Daniel Penny breaking news, if I can, with you, Tommy, because I've been sort of incandescent about this case, as I think you have from the start.
The idea that a war hero is in his civilian life on a subway and watches a completely deranged lunatic threatening to kill people, and he apprehends him and prevents him from harming anybody.
And in the process, clearly, accidentally, didn't mean to do this, the guy falls unconscious and then he dies.
And it's a tragic accident that that happened, but it was entirely precipitated by this deranged lunatic going on a subway and threatening to kill people.
A subway system, by the way, in New York, where people have been killed quite regularly in recent years.
This guy is a hero, and yet he was treated like a criminal who should be thrown into jail for the rest of his life.
Now, I think justice has been served and he's been released, a free man, but with huge damage to his life, to his reputation, and so on.
What do you make of this case?
Well, I also say damage to his reputation if he chooses to remain in New York City.
If he comes to a great red state like the one I'm in right now, Tennessee or Texas or many other great states around this country, he'll be treated like the hero that he is.
There's a lot I have to say on this, Piers, but I'd also say for those BLM grifters who are now coming out threatening to burn down the city, making this all about their race-baiting grift, how dare you?
And shame on you.
You did not care about Jordan Neely when he was a homeless man living on the streets, struggling with mental health problems and possibly a drug addiction.
You didn't care about him then.
You probably stepped over him on your way elsewhere.
But now, all of a sudden, when you can use his name and you can use his death to fundraise for BLM or to get out your pent-up aggression or to claim racism, now all of a sudden you care about someone like Jordan Neely.
It's all too rich for me, Piers.
Expect to see New York City once again descend into mayhem and chaos because BLM needs attention.
The pro-terrorists, anti-Semites, anti-Israel protesters have been taking all the wind out of their sails, getting all the attention.
So now they want to be back in the headlines.
But I don't think they're going to be met with the same sentiment that they had with George Floyd in 2020.
People are sick and tired of this, and people know that Daniel Penny was a hero, is a hero, and should be treated like one.
Well, that's how I feel.
A lot of people don't.
Hawk Newsome, the founder of BLM in New York, has said that anyone who thinks Penny is innocent has racism in their heart before saying the KKK got another victory.
Hypocrisy.
Now, I want to play before I go to you, Mark.
I want to play, this is a clip of Jordan Neely's father talking about his reaction to the verdict.
I just want to say, I miss my son.
My son didn't have to go through this.
I didn't have to go through this either.
It hurts.
Really, really hurts.
What are we going to do, people?
What's going to happen to us now?
I had enough of this.
System is rigged.
Now, Mark, I'm sorry.
Listen, I've got a lot of feeling for any father whose son dies in those circumstances.
But the idea the system has been rigged over this, the idea that this guy, Jordan Neely, clearly mentally unwell, homeless, and potentially violent, nobody knew his propensity for violence.
All they knew was he was acting in a very threatening way and threatening to kill people.
And you have a guy who's from the military who knows how to disarm people who did exactly what he was trained to do.
And then an accident occurred, and it's incredibly unfortunate.
But he did not want to let this guy go in case he got up and carried out his threat.
Are you really going to try and argue?
I don't know if you are.
I'm just pointing a question to you, really.
But is this really the way it's being framed as a victory for the KKK?
That if you don't think this guy is guilty, you've got racism in your heart.
I don't think that that's the dominant position from people like myself who are critical of what happened and who are disappointed in the outcome of the trial.
I think it's too simplistic to say that anybody who disagrees with me is a member of the KKK or has beliefs like the KKK.
I think that becomes a very almost like a straw man argument.
I think there are a few things that we need to talk about with regard to framing.
The first thing is, as you pointed out, Piers, this man is mentally unwell.
This person was struggling with mental illness.
That's very different than the initial introduction to this segment that you gave where you said he was a deranged lunatic.
And as you repeated multiple times, deranged lunatic.
It would communicate to the audience and to everyday people everywhere that the only way to stop this person from destroying the subway and killing everybody was to put him in a six-minute lunatic.
Sorry, Mark, he was.
I mean, it's indisputable.
Nobody knew at the time what his mental health status was.
All they knew was He was behaving in a lunatic manner, threatening and potentially dangerous.
Nobody knew if he was armed.
Nobody knew what he might do.
People were terrified.
So I'm afraid, for all intents and purposes, the guy was behaving like a deranged lunatic.
It turns out after the event, after the event, we discover he has mental illness.
But let's not pretend that in the moment he wasn't acting like a deranged lunatic, because he was.
I wasn't.
I wasn't saying that.
You interrupted before I could.
Finish the thought.
You would understand.
I wasn't saying that.
What i'm saying is is that someone with a mental illness may or may not be violent.
Most people with mental illnesses in public space, according to all the evidence, all the data, are not violent threats, and so I i'm saying that we should not presume that they are.
I don't have an issue with you saying hey, i'm going to subdue this person because I believe that they are unsafe for uh, the particular context that we're in.
What I take issue with is saying that i'm going to put them in a six-minute chokehold because that's the only way to stop them from doing harm, and we don't know that, and that's that.
That's the additional piece of this, Pierce Pierce Piers, Pierce.
NO NO, Piers.
You spoke uninterrupted, and so did the other guests.
Let me finish the thought before you disagree with it.
Fair enough um the the, the.
The second.
The second point here is I actually agree with, which is that there are systemic issues here.
There's poverty, there's homelessness, there are all these things that a lot of the world does not pay attention to until there is a crisis.
That's not a BLM issue, that's not a conservative issue, that's not a left or right issue.
The fact of the matter is we ignore this.
The failure of the system here is not what happened on that subway.
It's the fact that a person with mental illness can go untreated, unsupported and houseless without any support, and then we end up with situations like this right, but for his father to be lecturing everybody in the way that he did.
Again, I don't have a lack of empathy for him losing his son, but the lecture that he gave.
You know, his son is wandering around as a homeless, mentally ill person on the subway, threatening people.
You know what.
With all due respect to his father, where was his father in his life?
I mean, is that a reasonable question to ask?
If that was one of my sons, I would feel an accountability and responsibility for the actions of one of my children, would you?
I probably would, but I also don't think that that's the most important question.
I may share with you uh, the opinion.
In fact, I do share with you the opinion that hey, we should talk about family structures, we should talk about parenting, we should talk about fatherhood, but when a father's son is dead in this moment, we as a nation, just like with the, just like with the healthcare issue, we have an opportunity to talk about the broader system.
Instead of us criticizing how a mourning father is dealing with his dead son, let's talk about the conditions that got us there.
Let's not play a blame game.
Well, we're going to come to the.
We're going to come to the cold-blooded execution of a healthcare executive, which I think is.
It is unfathomable to me that people would celebrate that happening literally within seconds of the guy being gunned down.
But we're going to come to that debate in a moment and obviously Taylor, you're going to be a key part of that.
But, Tommy I, I just sense that there's already a building momentum for this to be treated like a mini George Floyd situation.
Now, I found the George Floyd story horrific.
I thought what that police officer did was indefensible and appalling, but it's a completely different set of circumstances.
This guy, Daniel Penny, is a Marine veteran.
He's on a subway and he's watching somebody directly threatening to kill people.
And he apprehends him and he holds him down because he doesn't want him to be a threat to the lives of people around him.
That used to be the kind of behavior that would win people medals for valor.
Now you end up in a criminal court facing the rest of your life in a prison cell.
And that's what I find so just I can't understand it.
How has society moved to punishing people like Daniel Penny for doing a citizen's, a good citizen's job, trying to protect people?
I don't get it.
Well, you only can understand it if you're in Manhattan and you're in the mind of D.A. Alvin Bragg.
There's a whole lot we can talk about there.
Not a lot of things that that office wants to prosecute outside of Donald Trump and Daniel Penny and other heroes.
But I would also say this, when we're talking about this case and Daniel Penny and we're talking about the race element here, let's keep in mind, Daniel Penny is a big guy.
He's strong.
He's young.
He's a former Marine.
If he's on that subway and Jordan Neely comes in threatening people, probably the last person that's going to be the victim is Daniel Penny.
He can hold his own.
Daniel Penny stood up to protect people that maybe couldn't protect themselves, the women, the children.
Also, if you look at the footage from that subway, a lot of those people in the subway were people of color.
So you have a white man that's standing up to protect people of color in a subway, and yet BLM is so desperate for their grift and for their attention that they really want to make this about race.
The way I see it is you have a Marine who cares that he's white standing up to protect people.
He didn't care what color Neely was.
He didn't care what color the people were around him.
He wanted to do the right thing.
I completely agree.
Mark, it has nothing to do with skin color.
And people that try and imply that it is, they are the ones playing the race card.
I honestly believe that on this story.
I've studied it in detail.
I've seen all the footage.
I've seen all the accounts.
This is not a race story.
Daniel Penny didn't do anything predicated on the skin color of Jordan Neely.
He did it to protect people, as Tommy said, black, white, whoever.
They were a multi-racial subway at the time.
Where's the race element of this?
I'm fascinated by the certainty with which you say that.
So you tell me why I'm wrong.
Tell me why I'm wrong.
I'm not telling you you're wrong.
What I'm telling you is that I have no idea what was in Daniel Penny's head.
He could have been motivated by race.
He could not have been motivated by race.
I would say that.
The jury did as well.
They just cleared him.
I would disagree with anyone who says he did that because of race.
But I would also disagree with you saying unequivocally that race wasn't on his mind.
Race, Bias, and Motive 00:02:57
You have no idea, but you have a lot of things.
There's no evidence.
You have a tip.
Zero.
I agree with you.
Zero evidence.
And that's why.
So it's completely concocted.
I disagree with that.
It's not completely concocted when you look at, again, when you look at actual data on these types of things.
But the bigger issue is that...
How many types of these have there been?
Give me another.
How many times?
How many times has it been?
How many times has a Marine veteran done a six-minute chokehold to protect people on a subway from somebody who shouted, I'm going to kill you?
How many times has that happened that you can rattle off right now, given you say it happens all the time?
So Piers, to be clear, I said things like this happen all the time.
And the kind of sardonic question that you're asking seems clever to people who aren't smart.
But as someone who's a trained social scientist, you don't have to have the exact same contextual factors.
Sorry, Mark, I'm sorry.
You don't have to be a trained social scientist.
For example, if it were a school bus instead of a subway, it wouldn't make it less important.
If you were an Army vet instead of a Marine vet, it wouldn't make it less relevant.
It's a silly question to ask me, when was the last time I were a Marie vet on a subway, blah, That's not the point.
Okay, so I never made it about race.
Hang on.
I never made it about race.
Hang on.
So far, you've called me dumb, silly, and you say you're what was.
I didn't call you dumb.
What kind of scientist are you?
I didn't call you dumb.
What scientists are you?
Time out.
You're not listening.
I think you're very smart.
I think you're making an argument that will only be persuasive to people who are not as smart as you.
I never said you were dumb.
But let me respond to that.
When you rewind this, you'll see I never called you dumb.
I said you were being sarcastic.
You don't need to be smart.
I think you're being snarky with the club.
You don't need to be.
With respect, you don't need to be a social scientist to know that there is zero evidence of any racial motivation for what Daniel Penny did.
So people who are trying to infer it, that somehow, as the founder of BLM in New York says, if you think he's innocent, you're a racist, and the KKK just got another victory.
I'm not a social scientist, but I know that's horseshit.
Right.
Again, the statement from the BLM person in New York, I don't share.
I don't echo.
I don't agree with.
You're asking me to defend a statement that I don't agree with.
The statement I am making that you and I should be engaging is the issue of implicit bias and the issue of using.
What's bias?
There is.
What bias?
There is.
I said implicitly.
Okay, just extrapolate that.
You think if Jordan Neely had been white and came on that subway, right, and was acting like a deranged lunatic, as he was, but if he'd been white, do you think that Daniel Penny wouldn't have intervened?
Because that's what you're implying.
I have, that's not what I'm implying.
Why is the bias?
Laughing at Tragedy 00:10:19
Okay.
Where's the bias?
Implicit bias.
That's not what implicit.
Okay.
Let me use it.
It's clear you don't understand what implicit bias is, so let me use a different word with all due research.
Let me finish this.
I promise you'll hear me.
What I'm saying is, is that I have no reason to believe that he was motivated by race or that he was not motivated by race.
But the idea that someone could be motivated by race is not outside of the realm of possibility based on ample data that shows that people are more likely to use force against black people, that they tend to believe that black bodies are stronger and more physically resilient, and therefore they think they have to hold them in chokeholds longer.
There's plenty of police data that shows that, including New York Police Department data.
So when you asked me to show other examples, no, I don't have examples of other Michael Jackson impersonators on subways being choked by Marines, but there is other evidence of people in very comparable circumstances where race has mattered.
But again, I'm not making a racial argument.
I'm saying that the guy choked him too long and he should still be alive right now.
And the fact that he was held for that many minutes and people on the subway were literally saying you're killing him.
That is evidence that he should have stopped.
Again, I'm not taking issue with the subduing of him.
I'm taking issue with how long he held him, how long he choked him, and that he didn't stop him.
Once that big guy is on top of him and he has physical control, there's a whole subway watching, he could have stopped choking him.
That's all I'm saying.
Listen, listen, obviously he choked him for too long or the guy would still be alive.
It's whether he did this deliberately and obviously he didn't.
So let's just agree on those two facts.
I disagree.
Let's move to the other story because Taylor's been waiting patiently here.
So this issue of Brian Thompson, one of the top healthcare executives in the country, I'm just curious why your first reaction would be to his cold-blooded execution.
And people wonder why we want these executives dead.
And then you later commented with people giving you a lot of blowback.
I'm all alone, you said.
Healthcare executive down with party balloons was on a next post that you commented on.
Why would you be in such a celebratory mood about the execution of another human being?
Aren't you supposed to be on the caring, sharing left where you believe in the sanctity of life?
I do believe in the sanctity of life.
And I think that's why I felt, along with so many other Americans, joy, unfortunately, you know, because it feels like a man's execution.
Maybe not joy, but certainly not, no, certainly not empathy.
Because again, we're watching the footage.
How come this make you joyful?
This guy's a husband.
He's a father.
And he's been gunned down in the middle of Manhattan.
Why is that making joyful?
So are the tens of thousands of Americans, innocent Americans who died because greedy health insurance executives like this one push a policies of denying care to the most vulnerable people.
And the many millions of Americans that have watched people that I care about suffer and in some cases die because of lack of health care.
So should they all be killed then?
Should they all be killed, these healthcare executives?
Would that make you even more joyful?
No, that would not.
Why not?
Why are you laughing?
I think because Pierce, because it doesn't, it wouldn't fix the health.
You seem to find the whole thing hilarious.
I find your question.
Burke's been murdered in the street.
I don't find it funny at all.
I don't find it funny that tens of thousands of Americans die every year because they are denied life-saving healthcare from people like this CEO.
Now, I want to fix this system.
You're right.
We shouldn't be going around shooting each other with vigilante justice.
No.
I think that it is a good thing that this murder has led to America, really the media elites and politicians in this country paying attention to this issue for the first time.
You mentioned you couldn't understand why somebody would feel this reaction when they watched a CEO die.
It's because you have not dealt, it sounds like, with the American healthcare system in the way that millions of other Americans have.
I've dealt with the healthcare system in various ways in America.
I don't think it's perfect by any means, but the idea that I would view it as something.
Have you been denied life?
Hang on.
No, the idea that I would view it as something joyful that a man has been, who's just a healthcare executive, has been executed in the street, I find completely bizarre.
Let me bring in Tommy here.
Tommy, you know, I keep being...
Hang on, Taylor.
I'll come back to you.
Okay, don't say I'm joyful.
I said I'm not.
You said you were feeling joyful.
Yeah, I take that back.
Joyful is the wrong word, Pierce.
I said, as I clarified, yeah.
You think joyful is the wrong word?
Yeah.
I'd say it is.
It's indicated celebratory because, again, it feels like justice in this system when somebody responsible for the deaths of tens of thousands of Americans suffers the same fate as those tens of thousands of Americans who he murdered.
Tommy, whether Taylor wants to retract the word joyful or not, we all heard her say it.
And I was just shocked.
I mean, I find that kind of response utterly shocking that someone could be murdered in the middle of Manhattan who happens to be an executive for a healthcare company.
And people think this is something that makes them feel joyful.
Yeah, this is still the remnants of the incredibly bratty Occupy Wall Street movement that's morphed into 100 other movements by now, all equally as disgusting.
But to celebrate the murder of a husband and a father simply because you disagree with his position at a company or you disagree with the company or you disagree with the system of healthcare that we have in the U.S. is quite frankly sick twisted and disgusting.
Why you'd celebrate anybody's murder, especially just an innocent man who you happen to disagree with, is really shocking to me.
But it also just goes to show that the left and many on the left have a tendency to believe that violence like this, political violence, is necessary.
It's a means to an end.
And if they believe in the end and they believe in the means, it's really sick and wrong.
If you want to have a conversation about healthcare in this country, that's fine.
Let's have that all day long.
But to be joyful or even to even say you're not empathetic about somebody losing their life when they leave behind two young boys, especially during the holiday season, the same day that millions of New Yorkers are celebrating a tree lighting.
I mean, that's just too far for me, a bridge too far.
The loving and tolerant left is at it again, Piers.
Yeah, Taylor, I don't mean to be rude, but why the fuck are you laughing all the time?
I don't get it.
Sorry, I apologize for my language, but honestly, I find it unbelievable.
What are you laughing at?
I am laughing at Tommy's insane mischaracterization of why people are angry.
It has nothing to do with Occupy Wall Street.
This is a feeling that people feel across the left and the right.
You mentioned Ben Shapiro earlier in his video about the Healthcare Exec.
I encourage people to check the comment section on that video, okay?
100% of America is united on this, or rather, the majority of America is united on this.
We do not think that this healthcare system that is murdering, again, thousands of innocent Americans, who, by the way, Tommy, also have families, also have children.
These people are being killed by our barbaric and evil for-profit healthcare system.
And I agree, we should not necessarily go around shooting people in the street.
And while I am joyful that this issue has been brought to attention, not necessarily.
It's just unbelievable.
They shouldn't be shot in the street.
They shouldn't be shot in the streets because, again, it doesn't solve the systemic problem.
United Healthcare will just appoint a new ghoulish CEO.
The point is, is that we need to fix these systems so that, again, people like Brian or whoever's in charge of these companies stops murdering tens of thousands of innocent Americans.
That is let me bring in.
Let me bring in Mark on this.
I mean, Mark, I'm sorry, but there's just no justification for being for laughing your way through a statement like this, talking about how joyful you were that this happened.
Is there?
Again, Pierre, I'm not joyful that I'm not.
Sorry, Taylor, I'm asking Mark, not you.
Well, then, well, then stop.
I heard you.
You said it.
You may have recanted it, but you know, unfortunately.
Unfortunately, as you know, as you know, this show keeps receipts.
We all know what we saw.
I'm not denying that I said it.
I'm just, I'm not denying that I'm said it, but I'm denying that your interpretation of it, which is an insane word.
I know what joyful means.
It fills you with joy.
I'm joyful that people are paying attention to this.
You were joyful that he got murdered.
That's what you said.
I am.
Then you realize what you said.
Yeah, exactly.
And I'm clarifying it for you.
That's going to make things even worse for me.
Mark, let me bring you in.
Just for me to be clear, Pierre, things are great for me because, again, I am on the side of the rest of America, which believes this for-profit healthcare system is not.
Actually, you're not, actually, because most Americans do not think they felt joy in that moment.
It's you.
No, because again, I didn't feel joy in that moment.
I felt joyful.
You told me you did.
Again, I'll tell you what, just to clarify, do you want me to play it again?
Do you want me to remind you?
I'm not misrepresenting my views.
Do you want me to remind you what you said?
Do you want me to remind you?
I can repeat what I said all I want, but again, you are misrepresenting my views.
I am telling you how I'm going to be.
Social media will remind you later.
Don't worry about it.
Mark.
Again, Piers, I'm glad I'm going to say that.
Taylor, can you show some matters to your other panelists, please?
Mark.
Well, stop misquoting me.
No, I quoted you directly.
You then recounted.
Well, then, stop, then stop misrepresenting my views and my feelings.
You felt joyful.
Then you wished you hadn't said it.
No, no, Piers.
No, Pierce.
I quoted you directly.
You are misrepresenting how I feel.
Let me as an independent third person here, along the top of the third and fourth person here, maybe offer some clarity to this.
It sounds like she used the word joy.
You found it appalling.
Did you?
She says that she misspoke.
She recanted.
And you're saying that despite her recanting, she still said it in the first place.
It seems to me, it's just to me, the question here is just whether you believe her or not, but we can move past that.
Systemic Damage and Joy 00:02:58
I happen to think that none of us should find joy in death.
None of us should find joy in people being killed.
This was a person.
This was a human being.
This was somebody who was loved and loved people.
I find no joy, no value, no humor in any human loss of life or animal loss of life.
But in this case, I think it's important to stress that because of everything that happened on the internet.
That said, we can have two conversations simultaneously.
We can find great sadness in the fact that this man was killed and also see it as a valuable and rich site of opportunity to discuss the bigger picture of healthcare in America, which doesn't lead to individual political assassinations, but does lead to the death of thousands, hundreds of thousands, and maybe even millions of people every single day, some of which is entirely preventable.
We live in a system that prioritizes profits over people.
And the fact that so many people who are otherwise normal and humane and loving and empathetic were able to find humor or joy in this tragic death, it says something about who we are as people, but it also says something to how this wicked system has damaged us and corroded our character and eroded our sensibilities.
I'm saying, let's have that conversation about how sad this man's individual death is, but let's not let that be the only story that we tell.
Let's all talk about this healthcare system.
That's all.
Obviously, there's a much bigger debate to have about a healthcare system.
But Tommy, it was inevitable that the finger of blame would eventually turn to one person.
Let's take a look at this clip.
Don't you think this is a systemic problem that's coming from the top?
Look what Trump tweets or whatever social, whatever it's called, false social media.
Call truth.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But, you know, the stuff that comes out of his mouth is exactly this kind of stuff.
And he allows it.
And people, I noticed in 2016, wow, people are behaving differently.
It was Donald Trump's fault, Tommy, that this lunatic, I'll call him a deranged lunatic, even though we have no idea if he was, but we do know that he believes violence was the answer because he said that in his little manifesto that was found on him.
Tommy, it was Donald Trump's fault that this deranged lunatic executed the healthcare executive.
Nobody else, Trump.
Yeah, this obsession with Donald Trump is quite frankly really unhealthy.
And I hope that members of the mainstream media and these pundits, I hope that they seek help immediately because everything in their mind always goes back to Donald Trump, the eat, sleep, breathe Donald Trump.
I think they're bigger fans of Donald Trump, quite frankly, than I am.
Recanting Statements on Death 00:02:57
But, you know, I don't see a different attitude that's dark and dismal in this country.
I actually do see what is legitimate joy in this country about Donald Trump being reelected and sitting as our president-elect currently.
And I think that the majority of the American people echoed that on November 5th.
But there's just the obsession that everything has to be Trump's fault.
Of course, everything bad that happens is blamed upon Donald Trump.
But this shtick is getting old, Piers, because we've got Donald Trump not only winning an election, winning the popular vote, making great gains across demographics.
You can't hate everyone all at once, everywhere.
And the Democrats and these media hacks, they're really going to have to reckon with that because the majority of the American people are not on their side, as evidenced by a historic election.
And Taylor, I just want to make, because you've obviously, you're unhappy with my mischaracterization of what you said in inferring that you were feeling joyful about what had happened to this guy.
So we've got the clip and we'll just play it back just to remind you.
I do believe in the sanctity of life and I think that's why I felt along with so many other Americans joy, unfortunately, you know, because it feels like maybe not joy, but certainly not what I said.
Certainly not.
This is literally.
So you felt joy.
You felt joy.
That you played that clip because you'll see that I didn't say that.
And then she said she misspoke and clarified.
Oh.
And I didn't say that she wasn't.
I don't think, Mark, it was more that she wished she hadn't said she felt joy because you suddenly realized how.
Why did she listen to that clip again?
Because I don't say that joy that I feel joy in the man's death.
I said, I feel joy because, and that's exactly when you cut me off.
And if you let me finish, I would say, I feel joy.
No, bullshit, Piers.
You don't know what was going on.
That's not.
She's right.
She's right, Pierce.
She actually said, I feel joy, and then you interrupted her there.
Perhaps, I don't know what she was going to say, but she certainly didn't get a chance to finish.
Well, the viewers can watch the whole thing in the right place.
And you may not realize this with the same thing.
We don't sense the things here.
Mark, I don't know why you're going out of your way to defend her, mate.
Because Taylor, let's be honest.
You know what you're saying?
You wish you had the truth.
Let me give Taylor an opportunity.
Would you like to apologize for using the word joy?
Again, if you take the word joy completely out of context from the words.
Take it out of context.
Would you like to say that?
Would you like to apologize?
Yes or no?
Yes or no?
You just played the clip that showed that I said I feel joy because, and that's right when you cut me off.
So let me tell you why I feel joy.
I feel joy because people like you who are rich and powerful and on TV and have all the access to all the healthcare privileges in the world are finally being forced to pay attention to the barbaric healthcare system that murders tens of thousands of innocent Americans.
And that is what I feel joy in, that people like you are forced to confront those systemic problems.
That's what I'm joyful.
Yeah, I knew it would be my fault as well at some stage.
Right.
Well, thank you to my panel.
I appreciate it.
A lively debate on two big stories that have been gripping America.
Thank you very much.
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