Piers Morgan, Chen Uger, Claudia Conway, Clay Travis, and Dinesh D'Souza clash over Kamala Harris's Arizona border visit, with Travis labeling her a "chameleon" for alleged policy flip-flops like funding migrant gender reassignment surgery. They debate swing state losses, Trump's mental fitness claims, and the January 6th riot, where Travis accuses Democrats of weaponizing the DOJ while ignoring BLM riots. The panel critiques Tim Walz as unqualified, discusses Vance's appeal to white voters, and argues over First Amendment threats versus establishment hypocrisy regarding disinformation. Ultimately, the heated exchange highlights deep partisan fractures over election integrity and constitutional norms. [Automatically generated summary]
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The Chameleon Strategy00:07:54
30% of Democrats said they wished that Donald Trump had been assassinated.
The right-wing loves violence.
And the minute that it touches Donald Trump, you guys are like, oh my God, he has tried to kill Trump.
Piers, it's okay.
He's your friend.
You guys did a show together.
You're going to have access to him.
Didn't the last time you interviewed Trump, wasn't it kind of a disaster that he was furious for?
Thank you, Clay.
Trump is a super bright guy.
You can't succeed in business like he is without a lot of talent.
Well, he didn't.
Tim Walz a moron.
He's a miserable moron.
He is going to get embarrassed.
Walls hasn't done a single solo interview with a national media figure since he was elevated.
Donald Trump is the dumbest man we've ever seen in public life, and these guys are pretending he's smart.
He's like, well, how could he be a successful business?
He's not a successful businessman.
You are like a guy who got broken up with and can't get over it.
This is so deranged.
She's a chameleon.
Why don't you admit she's a chameleon?
All of you are chanting, lock her up, lock her up, she's on political until this weekend, border czar Kamala Harris was last seen at the U.S.-Mexico border in 2021.
She's previously explained her failure to visit by pointing out she hasn't been to Europe either.
She also derided Donald Trump's border wall as a medieval vanity project.
But that was the old Kamala.
Kamala the chameleon is suddenly getting tough on illegal immigration and she wants everybody to know about it.
But is anybody buying it?
Can a 20-minute photo op do anything to persuade the millions of Americans who blame the Biden administration for southern border chaos?
Unsurprisingly, Donald Trump's not convinced in a typically understated fashion.
He responded to the border visit by declaring Harris to be mentally impaired and demanding she'd be prosecuted.
But joining me to discuss all this and look forward to the vice presidential debate on Tuesday is the founder and host of The Young Turks, Chen Uger, the commentator Claudia Conway, the founder of Outkick, Clay Travis, and the director of new documentary Vindicating Trump, the conservative commentator Dinesh D'Souza.
Welcome to all of you.
Well, let me start with you, Clay Travis.
The border czar, Kamala Harris suddenly seems to be remembering what her job was.
I think it's a sign, Piers, of how much she's in trouble that she went to Arizona, that she has reversed every policy she's basically stood for her entire political career.
Remember, this was a woman who, when she was running in 2019, Pierce, didn't just say she basically wanted a wide open border.
She said that any migrants that were being held in prison should get taxpayer-funded-funded gender reassignment surgery.
That is, we should be paying in the United States to make sure that illegal immigrants are able to change their gender.
I mean, this was absolute balderdash.
This is madness.
And I think this issue by itself, in conjunction with over 400,000 criminals, 13,000 convicted murderers, 16,000 rapists all entering this country and starting to wreak havoc all over the citizens of the United States.
I think it standing alone is going to cost her Arizona and Nevada.
I think she's going to lose Georgia, North Carolina, and it all comes down to whether Trump can win one of the three states, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, or Michigan.
I think he can.
I think this issue is the single worst, right alongside of the economy for Kamala and why she doesn't deserve a promotion.
Yeah, I mean, Chenk, the thing I would say if I was looking at this with no horse in the race, which I don't, despite your frequent attempts to claim that I do, would be that by going there now, it looks like political expediency, but it also reminds everybody just how bad the southern border crisis has been under the Biden administration.
It's indisputable.
The numbers don't lie.
Surely it was a tactical error to suddenly go down there and pretend you really care when you haven't been there in nearly four years.
Yeah, no, you're not biased against her at all.
You just called her Karma Chameleon.
But okay.
Oh, she is.
It doesn't mean to sound partisan.
She just is.
She is a chameleon.
Okay, sure.
You don't agree?
Hang on.
You don't agree with that?
No, I don't.
You don't think Karma.
You don't think Kamala Harris deserves the title Karma Chameleon for repeatedly U-turning on previous positions.
Seriously, Chase?
Seriously?
So hold on.
No, you hold on.
First of all, answer me.
Piers, I'm not going to agree to your rando nickname for Kamala Harris.
Do you not think she's being chameleon?
Hold on.
Can I?
Can I answer the question?
I brought up the issue that you're biased against her, and then you proved me right by saying, she's a chameleon.
Why don't you admit she's a chameleon?
Meanwhile, we have a mentally disabled person running against her.
But we'll get to that.
So in terms of the border, look, all of this is silliness.
I don't do the usual partisan stuff.
So first of all, on immigration, the Biden administration did not do a good job for at least a couple of years in between.
The numbers have come back down now.
But in putting her in charge of any portion of the border was Joe Biden throwing her under the bus.
They had nothing to do.
She had nothing to do because he wouldn't let her.
And so I don't think that the Democrats have covered themselves in glory on the issue of immigration.
I think going down there for a photo op and just looking at the border is just so meaningless.
Every stupid politician does it.
It gains them nothing.
The media shouldn't feed into that.
But finally, I think that people have to admit, you look, Kamala Harris came to Donald Trump's position.
I'm not thrilled about that, but that's a fact, right?
And then Donald Trump said, oh, yeah, I don't want my own position because he wanted to help himself in the election rather than protect you guys.
He cares more about himself than the voters every single time.
And there is no excuse you guys have for Donald Trump killing his own immigration bill other than his greed and his selfishness and his narcissism.
Dinesh, your response to that.
Welcome to Uncensored, by the way.
I think that Kamala Harris going to the border is part of a strategy in which she is relying on the media to do work for her.
And here's what I mean.
The ordinary American is not happy with the way the country is going.
And normally this leads to throw the bums out because the people who are in power are doing a bad job.
But the one thing the Democrats have is virtual unanimity in the mainstream media.
And so they're counting on a narrative that basically says to the American people, don't believe your lying eyes.
Don't believe your pocketbook.
Don't believe the crime that you see in cities.
Don't believe the hordes of people swarming across the border, the reports of criminals.
Instead, accept this portrait of a new and improved Kamala Harris that we're going to give you, this smoke and mirrors, this Kamala at the border talking tough.
So they're counting on this fictional portrait, this movie portrait of Kamala Harris, to trump, if I can use that term, the observations and experience of the American people.
They're counting on the American people being complete and total suckers.
Okay.
Claudia, welcome to Uncensored to U2, two debutantes today.
The American people apparently need to be complete suckers to buy into what Kamala Harris is now doing on the border.
I think there's some truth to that.
I think that immigration is her worst topic, in my opinion.
I think that the Biden-Harris administration, what they've done with immigration, has been abysmal.
And I think that we can't really call her a chameleon.
If we're going to call her a chameleon, we have to call Trump a chameleon and JD Vance a chameleon and everybody else a chameleon because they're all doing, they're all flipping.
Well, hang on, I would.
Yeah.
Trump As A Lunatic00:12:11
Cheng wasn't smart enough or calm enough to ask me.
You have done.
So let me just for the record, I think they're all pretty chameleon-like.
Trump has you turned on many things, right?
So is JD Vance, not least calling Trump Hitler.
So yeah, I think they've all got a chameleon trait.
It just so happens, and that boy George is actually a friend of mine.
So you only named Carla.
Because Carmela Chameleon obviously sounds very similar to Karma Chameleon, which was the big boy George hit with Culture Club.
That's why she's called Karma Chameleon.
If Trump was called Kamala Trump, he'd be called Carmela Chameleon because it would go better with the song.
That's the only reason she's got the name.
But they're all quite chameleon-like.
In my opinion, it's true.
Yet, conveniently, you found no derogatory nicknames for Donald Trump or JD Vance.
You just happened to find one for Kamala Harris.
I've just said to you.
It's okay, Piers.
It's okay.
He's your friend.
You guys did a show together.
You're going to have access to him.
We get it.
You want Trump to win.
Let's move on.
I've said none of those things other than I'm happy to say Donald Trump's been a friend for 20 years.
The last time you interviewed Trump.
Wasn't it kind of a disaster that he was furious for?
Thank you, Clay.
He actually issued four statements from the office of the presidency.
He was obviously just out of there.
He offered to issue four official statements lambasting me as so dead I was catching flies.
So our friendship has had rocky periods.
But ultimately, yeah, Trump has been a friend of mine a long time.
I have friends, Shank.
You may not understand the concept of this.
I have friends who sometimes I disagree with him.
You know, you're one of them.
I can say that better than anyone.
Let me come back.
Let me come back to Claudia.
If you're waiting patiently, Claudia, finish your point.
Yeah, no, I think that her going to the border at this time is a little performative.
And I focus on the Gen Z vote.
And immigration is not as important to Gen Z voters as it is to all registered voters.
It ranks about 61% of voters rank it as very important.
But with Gen Z voters, I mean, they're not really looking at this, but I'm looking at this and I'm saying, why?
You know, her campaign's been pretty smart.
But, you know, back to what everybody else was saying, I think this was just like, you know, a little ploy for the campaign, for the campaign, just going to Douglas, Arizona, and saying, hey, I'm at the border.
You know, many Republican Congresspeople were upset about this.
Yeah.
So.
Yeah, I just don't think that's a good question.
I don't think it was a good move.
No, I just think it looked, as you say, performative.
Clay, Trump's been giving a number of speeches over the last few days, which contained, you know, the usual greatest hits, but also some slightly insane moments.
Let's take a look at some of the stuff that happened at the weekend.
Joe Biden became mentally impaired.
Kamala was born that way.
She was born that way.
And if you think about it, only a mentally disabled person could have allowed this to happen to our country.
Anybody would know this.
I mean, Clay, look, I see Trump for what he is.
You know, he talks in this way that it makes people laugh.
He's entertaining.
He's brutal.
He's bombastic.
He loves insulting people.
Is it a smart move for Trump to be calling Kamala Harris mentally disabled from birth a month before an election where she may end up being president of the United States?
I think it's an effective attack.
I think the word choice, as you well know, with Donald Trump is sometimes the bull in the china shop aspect of his entire personality.
He is an entertainer.
That's at a rally.
And I think it has to be taken in that context.
But what I think he's getting at, which cuts through and does connect, I think, with a lot of voters is Joe Biden, clearly, despite all the people on the left trying to claim that he was the best version of himself and behind closed doors, he was sharp as attack, which was what everybody said up until June 27th, as you well remember.
Look, Kamala is not actually able to cite some sort of mental and physical cognitive decline to explain away why she's been wrong on everything.
And I think this is important too.
Do you remember in 20, I guess it was 2004, in many ways, George W. Bush won that election because he said John Kerry was for the war in Iraq until he was against it.
And they got him on flip-flopping.
Your comic chameleon line for Kamala Harris, I mean, just think about this.
She now wants to build a border wall.
She doesn't want to ban straws.
She wants to allow fracking.
She now doesn't believe in reparations.
Basically everything Kamala Harris has ever said in her entire political career up until 2020, she doesn't believe in anymore.
And I think that's what's going on here.
Look, Kamala's been wrong on every issue.
I mean, I would ask anybody who's supporting her, name one thing that Kamala Harris has done really well, such that she deserves a promotion.
Piers, on your show, I bet you've had production assistants that got everything wrong.
They probably didn't end up the overall producer of the show.
That's what Kamala Harris is arguing for.
Yeah, I mean, Check, here's the thing, Check.
I know you're pragmatic.
You obviously don't want Trump to win.
I sort of feeling you're holding your nose with Kamala Harris.
You don't want her to be the Democrat nominee, but she is.
Therefore, you kind of, well, she'll have to win because I hate Trump so much.
She's not a convincing candidate.
I mean, she is a massive flip-flop, but she deserves the chameleon title.
Every interview is full of word-salad nonsense.
You know, with Trump, you kind of know what he is now.
He served four years.
We know him, good, bad, and ugly.
Kamala Harris does not, she wouldn't inspire me to open a crisp packet.
I have to be honest.
Now, am I wrong?
Yeah, so guys, you're looking at it wrong.
Of course, I think.
But let me explain because it's a little bit more complicated.
I think that Kamala Harris is a typical politician, and that's not a compliment.
I think she's an establishment Democrat, and I think 90% of politicians are establishment Democrats or Republicans.
So if you're someone who's on the left or progressive and you think she's going to deliver unicorns and rainbows, no, she's going to deliver for our donors.
So then if you're at home, you're saying, oh my God, that means I vote for Trump, right?
No, no.
The reason I'm voting for Kamala Harris is because Donald Trump is literally mentally impaired.
He's a danger to this country, to our democracy.
And that is not just a talking point.
He's set to terminate all the rules, regulations, and articles of the Constitution when he didn't win.
Yeah, but he's not going to do that.
And you know he's not going to do that.
That's not what he meant.
This is the problem, though.
When you go after this.
So this is the problem, Piers.
Piers, this is the problem.
Whenever we're talking about criticizing Kamala Harris, you guys let me and everybody else go for 20 minutes.
And then whenever I say the first thing about Trump, everybody jumps in to cut it off.
That's how this thing is so biased.
So let me tell you, Trump, you want to talk about mental impairment?
Come on, guys.
It should have been over when he said, let's put disinfectant inside our bodies.
He's a very, very dumb man.
I mean, he thinks that clean coal is you take out coal and you scrub it clean.
He thinks the F-35 self-fighter is invisible to the naked eye, like Wonder Woman.
He took a dementia test and thought it was an IQ test.
The other day, he said that the audience in the debate went crazy for him.
There was no audience in the debate.
The man has significant mental problems.
I'm not going to vote for a borderline lunatic.
So that's why this conversation is nonsense.
A typical politician versus a guy who tried to terminate the Constitution and is a verifiable lunatic.
Not a hard question at all.
All right, let me bring in.
All right, let me bring in Dinesh.
You spent some time with Trump recently for this new project of yours.
What's your assessment of Trump now compared to, say, eight years ago, when he first came on the political scene, took everyone by surprise, not least the Democrats, pulled off the most shocking presidential win in American history.
What's your impression of Trump now?
Well, there are certain aspects of Trump that are exactly the same.
I mean, you have to look at this guy as a kind of stand-up comedian.
When he was making the lines about Kamala, you could tell he was getting the reaction that he was going for.
And he's genuinely insightful and funny.
He has a good sense of the one-liner and he delivers it almost to perfection.
Now, the point is people said a lot of the same things even about Reagan.
You know, the guy's crazy.
He's demented.
So Trump is not outside the mainstream in his political rhetoric.
When Chenk says that he's a would-be dictator, he will terminate the Constitution and so on.
All of this would be somewhat scarier if Trump hadn't already been in office.
I mean, the guy was there.
He's already tried to terminate the Constitution.
How many leading Democrats, Cheng, did Trump prosecute and lock up?
Let's compare that to the number of Republicans that have been indicted.
Did Trump indict the leader of the opposition party and try to put her in jail?
People shouted, lock her up, lock her up.
But did he actually try to lock Hillary up?
No.
No, before I come back to Cheng to respond to that, I want to play a clip from Dinesh's film here, Vindicating Trump.
This is relating to Trump being comparable to Caesar.
Take a look.
You're not a normal Republican.
You are massive entrepreneurial success and a builder.
You built the New York skyline.
You're also a cultural icon.
They fear that even though they know you're not Caesar, you do have that kind of dimension.
You have that kind of power.
You didn't do an insurrection, but guess what?
Had you called for one, there would have been one.
And there would be one if you called for one now.
They know that kind of power.
They're scared of it.
And so they're like, this is the one guy we need to go after by all means necessary.
Well, I don't know if I have that power.
I'm not sure I want that power.
I want the power just to make the country better.
I mean, Cheng, that would be my point, which is if Trump was going to do all the things you claim he's going to do, he'd have done them.
Yeah, but he did.
You guys pervert reality in a way that is amazing.
You pretend that he's not saying you guys.
Dinesh has just said.
You just did it, Piers.
How do I not include you when you just did it?
I literally said.
You said that Trump wants to undo every part of the Constitution.
I'm telling you, that is completely insane for you to say that.
Utterly nonsense.
You're insane.
He's never going to do anything.
He's not going to do it.
You know it.
I know it.
Okay, guys.
Let me just address the audience.
Okay.
These guys are trying to brainwash you into forgetting the things that Donald Trump actually did.
He actually did January 6th.
They actually did rush the Capitol.
They did get inside the Capitol.
People did die.
He did say, let's terminate the Constitution when he didn't win.
He did have a three-hour meeting about installing martial law and rolling out the tanks.
Everyone in the administration said they would resign immediately if he did that, which General Michael Flynn suggested.
He actually, when his chief of staff said, your fans are looking to murder your vice president, he said he deserves it.
So you guys are pretending he didn't do these monstrous things, which he already did.
If you ask me why I'll never vote for Trump, because he hates America and he already proved it when he lost, he said, my government, I'm going to smash it to pieces if I can't have it because he's a spoiled little baby.
You're pretending like it didn't happen when it already happened.
Had you read or heard anything I wrote or said about January 6th, you'd know exactly how I feel about it.
Why did you just pretend that it didn't happen?
No, I didn't.
You're like, well, he didn't do it.
He did do it.
The arguable point, which needs to be argued in the court of law, is whether he inspired an insurrection, right?
He vehemently denies that.
You say he did.
Rhetoric And Assassination Talk00:16:10
And it is an arguable point.
There was clearly a riot at the Capitol.
Don't see that, January.
There was a shame.
There was a shameful riot at the Capitol that was violent and should never have happened.
And I've said that repeatedly.
On that, I totally agree with you.
Clay Travis.
But now you're back to the insurrectionists and supporting them.
I'm going to come to Claude.
Claudia, I'll come to you in a moment.
Clay, part of the problem with talking to people like Check, you know, I love having him.
A lot of passion, a lot of verb, and so on.
But once he gets talking about Trump, he literally goes mad every single time.
He sounds like a very lunatic.
He's talking about America.
Trump already tried to change electors.
Your name isn't Clay.
Hey, look, Elisa.
Shell's normal.
My jilted girlfriend who's been cast aside.
Look, let me say two things that are important here.
One, pre-COVID.
I don't like any of that.
Let's go to early February 20.
I appreciate that, actually, because there are a lot of awful dumb politicians.
We could agree on that.
In fact, there's way too many all over the world, especially in America.
But let me start with this.
February 2020, before, in my opinion, COVID leaked from a Chinese lab, which, by the way, you weren't even allowed to say because the Biden administration tried to censor everybody on social media.
And now suddenly everybody's aware that that's the most likely outcome.
Although, Clay, although Clay has completed leaked.
Clay, hang on one sec.
On that one point, the biggest study was released quite recently, which did seem to suggest that the most likely cause actually was from the wet market.
Just for the record, that was the biggest independent study.
I completely disagree with that theory, but let's put that aside for a minute.
February of 2020, the United States had 1.4-ish percent inflation.
We had 2.5% mortgages.
Black, white, Asian, and Hispanic real wages were up.
It is the case that the American economy had never been stronger since we whipped Pierce's boys back in the good old Revolutionary War and became an independent country.
Never had more people been living in a better manner than in February of 2020.
Second part, okay?
So a lot of people are looking at this and saying this is an economics election.
Trump had the greatest American economy of all time.
Everybody was doing better.
I think that's why so many people are yearning for that era in many ways.
Second part of this, I agree with both of you.
January 6th, when people riot, whether they're Republicans, Democrats, or Independents, there should be consequences and they should be prosecuted.
Here's the problem.
For six months, BLM effectively took over much of American cities and virtually nothing happened to them.
Kamala Harris, the tweet is still up, raised money for the people who were burning down Minneapolis to bail them out.
She argued we needed to defund the police.
Many people out there who are reasonable, that are not MAGA diehards, that are not Donald Trump absolute adherents.
Look at the way that our government responded to January 6th when Trump said, I want you to peacefully and patriotically go to the Capitol, which always gets left out.
They look at the way that January 6th rioters have been treated and they say, wait a minute, what about all the people who took over Seattle, Portland, Minneapolis, Chicago, New York City, Atlanta, all over the United States, cities burned and almost no one took any consequences for it at all.
What we have to get back to, in my opinion, in the United States, and what I believe the Biden administration has done really poorly is they have weaponized the Department of Justice against anyone with a different political persuasion.
Piers, you mentioned it.
When Trump could have gone after Hillary Clinton, he said, I won the election.
I'm not going to do it.
When Biden got into office, he used Merrick Garland as his attack dog, and they tried to not only bankrupt Trump, they tried to put him in jail for the rest of his life.
And in comparing him to Hitler, they allowed everybody free reign to believe that they would be a hero if they killed him.
And oh, by the way, they don't even believe that because every time somebody shoots at Donald Trump or tries to kill him, Kamala gets on the phone and Biden gets on the phone and they say, hey, are you okay?
We deplore this.
If you really thought Trump was Hitler, you should just say it in public.
You know what?
I'm sad that he missed, which 30% of Democrats actually are, even though they won't say it publicly.
They don't just dislike this guy.
They want him murdered in cold blood, assassinated, because they are crazier than anything Trump's ever said.
Claudia, you're in a...
Nobody's ever said that.
Clay made that up.
He totally made it up.
Nobody's ever actually said that.
Let me come to Claudia.
No, no.
30%, according to a poll of Democrats, 30% of Democrats said they wished that Donald Trump had been assassinated.
41% of Republicans said it's time for political violence.
Republicans openly have been talking about Second Amendment remedies for people that they disagree with.
They've been egging on violence.
Donald Trump laughed about how Nancy Pelosi's husband was smashed in with a hammer.
So the right wing loves violence.
And the minute that it touches Donald Trump, you go to, oh my God, he turns out by his trial.
But Chen, Cheng, let me ask you two months.
Let me ask Cheng.
I thought Clay raised a very good point there about the utter hypocrisy between the Democrat view of January 6th and the Democrat view of the BLM riots.
Either you oppose rioting full stop or you don't.
And the way that the rioters for BLM throughout that period were treated compared to the January 6th rioters was clearly demonstrably different, wasn't it?
So my question is, why?
Why were they treated differently?
Okay, no, let me explain a couple of things.
So first of all, yeah, I agree that we need to be absolutely consistent.
So sometimes people will lump in two different groups of people on January 6th.
There's the people who went and the much larger crowd that went and spoke, watched Donald Trump speak on January 6th.
Most of those people did not go to riot at the Capitol.
Then there's the people who rioted.
So whenever it reaches the people who just listened to the speech, I go, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
No, they just showed up to listen to his speech.
They didn't do anything wrong.
But when you go and you smash into the Capitol looking to murder Mike Pence and Nancy Pelosi, obviously you've done something massively wrong.
Now, when it comes to the BLM situation, the original protests were like the original people listening to Donald Trump.
They came out because they were deeply concerned about the injustice against African Americans in this country, and they were right.
Then at some point, a smaller group of people committed violence.
Police went to go arrest those people and they should.
Of course they should.
The one problem that I thought persisted after that initial outburst was some parts of like Portland and Seattle were taken over and the police let them do that for some period of time and that was nuts.
And so that's when I started saying, guys, this is not progressive.
This is not the right way to go.
We're not for lawlessness.
And then, of course, Trump did it in more spectacular fashion.
Let me bring Claudia in.
You've been waiting very patiently.
You've got a unique kind of perspective here from your own family, where your mom obviously has been out there very vocally extolling the benefit and virtues of Trump.
And then your dad obviously hates Trump with a passion.
You're in the middle of this.
You've grown up around this.
What's your kind of overview?
I'm in the middle of it, literally and figuratively.
I don't agree with anything my mother says about Trump.
I think Trump gets away with a lot.
I don't agree with a lot that's being said here, though.
I think that there are nuances to rioting, especially like nuances with the BLM protests.
They were not handled well.
But we had people, you know, rush into the Capitol, and that's the Capitol.
We have a lot of people.
Hang on, but Claudia, what's the difference between rioting one way and rioting another?
It's still rioting.
Rioting is using violence to get your way.
That's correct.
No, no, no.
Absolutely.
I 100% agree.
And I think violence is never the answer.
And I think when we have these nuances, like, oh, people can argue, oh, well, you know, they were protesting Black Lives Matter and they were protesting the election.
Violence is never the answer.
I don't care really what you're talking about.
Violence is literally never the answer.
Back to my perspective.
My father hates Trump with a passion.
Your father is George Conway, who's a lawyer.
Your mom is Kellyanne, obviously, who's a political activist and very well known.
So just for viewers who don't know, so just continue.
Yeah, and the way I see it is, you know, I will be voting for Kamala Harris, but I don't like a lot of the things that she says.
But the reason I'm voting for Kamala Harris is for the sake of the safety of our democracy and for women's rights.
I mean, Trump gets away with everything.
He called Kamala a mentally disabled person.
He said she wasn't black.
He says, look at what happened in Springfield, Ohio, you know, with the schools on lockdowns and the threats.
And it's ridiculous.
And he's the only person who can get away with all of this.
Do I think that Kamala going to the border was a political stunt?
Absolutely.
But when I weigh the two, to me, it's not comparable.
You know, the rhetoric is not comparable.
The rhetoric, the precedent of a president's rhetoric is so important.
And the rhetoric we have in this country is a very important thing.
But Claudia, here's what I was saying.
Here's what I would say.
You say that, but Kamala Harris used phrases like Trump was the enemy of democracy.
Biden said he had to be stopped.
And then two people in the last two and a half months have taken that seriously and they've tried to stop him by assassinating him.
And in the second case, we know from a note that the second shooter made or planning to shoot him that he was using exact phraseology from Kamala Harris, literally repeating it in his note.
So you say the rhetoric is only bad if it's from Trump or much worse, but it's the rhetoric.
Oh, no, no, no, not at all.
But the Democrat rhetoric about Trump has clearly whipped at least two people with unhinged brains into trying to kill him.
Ridiculous.
Well, that, in my opinion, is disgusting.
I completely condemn the assassination attempts on former President Donald Trump.
But when I talk about rhetoric, I'm talking about both sides.
I'm not just talking about, you know, Donald Trump and the things he says.
I'm talking about both sides.
This back and forth, this nasty, this game that they're playing with American voters, I think is abhorrent.
I can criticize both sides, but when we look at the rhetoric of Donald Trump compared to the rhetoric of Kamala Harris and Joe Biden, it's not comparable.
You know, Kamala Harris and Joe Biden, maybe they shouldn't say he's a threat to democracy, which he tried to overturn the 2020 election.
So there is some nuance there.
But we have Donald Trump saying heinous things constantly.
So yes, we can criticize both sides, but it's not comparable.
Dinesh, I want to bring you in on that.
Yeah, I'd like to jump in because I think that when you are trying to look at someone's character, it doesn't just, or actually not even primarily come down to, quote, rhetoric.
You have to look at someone's character by their actions, both in the public sphere and personal.
Now, look at Trump.
Here he is, and Clay mentioned this roaring economy that would have almost inevitably led Trump to re-election.
But then you have his advisors come to him and say to him, the men in the white coats, there's a pandemic.
You need to at least temporarily shut down the economy.
And Trump has got to have known, and he did know, that if I shut down the economy, I'm actually shutting down my own economy.
I'm jeopardizing my own chances of re-election.
And yet he did it.
So is that consistent with the idea that you've got this selfish guy who only cares about his own political prospects, doesn't care about the country?
I would say no.
That's a very good point.
Talked about the assassination.
That's a very good point.
The assassination.
I mean, you can shake your head, but that's a very good point.
Anyway, but back to Dinesh.
No.
Well, Trump, look at the way in which Trump has responded to both assassination attempts.
I mean, this level of bravery, I think, is unmatched by anyone, certainly in the political arena, but maybe even alive today.
Who is a guy who, when he's being dragged on by the Secret Service, pulls himself up, not knowing if there are more shooters, more shots, and shouts, fight, fight, fight?
Who is a guy who, upon a second assassination attempt, where there is a man evidently a few holes down who has been trying to kill you and you are a little annoyed that you've been interrupted in your golf game because you were just about to make an amazing putt?
I mean, I don't know anyone alive who would react to these kinds of terrifying situations in this way.
It's clearly a window into his character.
I completely agree.
Whether you love him or hate him, you cannot dispute that Trump has shown huge personal courage when he's literally come under fire.
Cheng, I want to play you a different clip.
This is from John Kerry, obviously former Democrat grandee.
He took part in the World Economic Forum panel on green energy.
And near the end of the panel, a member of the audience asked what could be done to push back against disinformation surrounding climate change online.
And he said this.
There's a lot of discussion now about how you curb those entities in order to guarantee that you're going to have some accountability on facts, et cetera.
But look, if people go to only one source and the source they go to is sick and has an agenda and they're putting out disinformation, our First Amendment stands as a major block to the ability to be able to just hammer it out of existence.
I thought that was an extraordinary thing to say out loud, Cheng.
I mean, you got a guy who was nearly president of the United States basically saying the First Amendment is a real problem.
No.
So first of all, look, the establishment has a certain agenda and they put out a massive amount of propaganda to back that in mainstream media.
And then if anybody opposes it from the so-called populist right and the actual populist left, they hammer it down.
But in this case, John Kerry was saying, hey, look, the guys like Dinesh T'Souza do these outrageous lies like 2,000 mules, but there's not much we could do about it because of the First Amendment.
So that's, he's not saying get rid of the First Amendment.
He never said that.
And by the way, if he did say that, I would be 100% opposed to it.
Meanwhile, the right wing, meanwhile, the right wing, they're saying arrest all the protesters who protest Israel.
You know, Donald Trump is saying, hey, Google and Facebook, I'm going to imprison you guys because I don't like what you're doing.
Washington Post, he threatened to shut them down because they criticized them.
He doesn't believe in the First Amendment.
He doesn't believe in any of the Constitution.
That's what he thought about, and he declared out loud that we should terminate the entire Constitution.
All right.
So if I thought John Kerry was 10% of Donald Trump and how much he hated the Constitution, then I would be opposed to John Kerry.
But I don't think he said that at all.
Clay, I thought it was a pretty sinister thing for him to say, actually.
I agree with you, Piers.
And I got a couple of things here.
One, to me, and I respect Claudia's opinion.
I respect Sanks, even though he probably doesn't respect mine or Dinesh's, because I believe in the First Amendment.
And I believe it is the single most important right that we have in the United States.
And I believe that if you're only going to be a single issue voter, to me, supporting the candidate who endorses the marketplace of ideas to the largest degree is the candidate you should be voting for.
And that is clearly Donald Trump, huh?
Kamala Harris.
Kamala has said that there needs to be more censorship.
No, no.
Kamala Harris has said that there needs to be more censorship.
She demanded that Donald Trump not be allowed to have a Twitter account.
Federal Power Deferred00:06:58
Even Elizabeth Warren wasn't willing to go that far.
She is radical when it comes to restricting speech.
Let me also build on something Dinesh said, because I think it's important because I think it goes to the heart of the argument that somehow Trump is going to be a dictator.
In any of our lives, there has never been a point in time when the American public as a whole has more relinquished its freedoms than in the early days of COVID.
In March and April and May of 2020, the amount of power that was undertaken by the federal government and was voluntarily relinquished by the American public to a large extent was scary.
I want to hammer this because I think it's so important.
There has never been a point in time in any of our lives, maybe other than right after 9-11, when a president could have adopted more dictatorial powers and taken a greater expansive role of control over the entire country.
What did Donald Trump do then?
He deferred to every governor and every mayor and let them determine based on the results in their communities and their states what the rule should be for COVID.
In my opinion, Trump actually deferred far too much to lunatics like Gavin Newsom and Cuomo, who were locking down their states like crazy, but he allowed the Ron DeSantises and the Brian Kemps of the world in Florida and Georgia to make different decisions.
That's the goal of federalism is to have 50 state laboratories at a time.
Compare it to what Joe Biden did when he came into office.
He said, if you don't get the COVID shot, I'm going to fire you.
He said that schools needed to remain closed because it wasn't safe.
Biden actually took far more dictatorial powers during COVID than Trump did, and the left cheered him on.
Again, if Trump wanted to be a dictator, there's never been a time in any of our lives for multi-months where a dictator could have taken over more.
And he deferred.
He let every governor and mayor make their own decision.
That, to me, is the ultimate test on how much power Trump will have.
He could have taken more than anybody ever has, and he relinquished it.
Okay.
Just to pivot quickly, because we're running out of time, but Clay, you start with this, which is the VP debate on Tuesday.
Obviously, Waltz against Vance.
Are you concerned that JD Vance, it might be a rough night for him?
For J.D., no.
I think Tim Walz, in all honesty, Piers, is the dumbest person who has ever been on American presidential ticket in my life.
I think the challenge that JD Vance is going to have.
J.D., whatever you think about him, is a super.
No, Trump is a super bright guy.
You can't succeed in business like he is without a lot of talent.
Well, he didn't.
Tim Walz is a moron.
He's a miserable moron.
He is going to get embarrassed, I think.
And the thing that JD Vance is going to be, pay attention to this, Piers.
The thing that JD Vance is going to have to be careful of is that he doesn't pummel Tim Walz so much that people start feeling bad for him.
Walls hasn't done a single solo interview with a national media figure since he was elevated.
This is a guy whose wife bragged about leaving the windows open so they could smell the burning rubber of Minneapolis.
This is a guy who lied about his military service, who is utterly unqualified to be a heartbeat away from the presidency of everybody on tickets.
I don't think Kabala's qualified.
I think Tim Wall's her worst decision.
She should have taken Josh Shapiro.
I think he's going to get embarrassed on Tuesday night.
Chank, the dumbest, the dumbest we've ever seen.
Apparently, Tim Bulls.
Yeah.
So, look, guys, you guys live in an amazing imaginary world.
They're like, if Trump wanted to be dictator, he would probably, if he lost an election, have somebody or a lot of people rush to Capitol and then not stop them, even as they're trying to murder his vice president.
And he would try to terminate the Constitution.
He did do that.
He did all of that.
And you guys don't acknowledge it.
First Amendment.
Kamala Harris has never said anything against the First Amendment.
Donald Trump threatens to imprison anyone who criticizes him.
You guys live in a delusional, imaginary world.
So in your life.
What person has Donald Trump?
What person has Donald Trump ever prosecuted as a Democrat?
Shouldn't you be able to point to at least one?
No, by the way, you know who's prosecuting Democrats?
Joe Biden.
I got no love for Joe Biden, but he went after Senator Menendez, his at least a federal authority went after Academy.
I'm saying if you're going to say Trump is a prison name.
Hold on.
Clay, let me answer the question.
Clay, let me answer the question.
You know why the federal government, the FBI Justice Department goes after someone?
When they have evidence.
Okay, so Trump says, I want Jeff Bezos arrested because the Washington Post.
And then he goes, hold on, let me answer the question.
Then he goes to the Department of Justice and they go, yeah, but what evidence do you have against him?
He was mean to me.
And they're like, no, we're not going to prosecute him because he was mean to you.
Grow up, you little child.
So which leads us back to the debate.
So we're talking about Tim Walz being unintelligent.
Are you crazy to see?
You're acknowledging that he never has prosecuted any political activists.
Hold on, hold on, hold on.
Okay.
He's the one who came up with the locker up chant.
You guys can pretend it didn't happen when all of you were chanting, lock her up, lock her up.
She's on political law.
You guys loved it.
You loved it.
Hold on, Cheng.
Let's get the deal.
Here's the thing.
And besides, Donald Trump is a criminal.
Hold on, Clay, what do you want us to do?
You pretend to be in favor of freedom and you pretend to be in favor of equality in the Constitution.
Donald Trump is a lifelong criminal.
He's broken every law that we can imagine.
And you go, oh, let him go.
Let him go.
He's our leader.
He's our beloved.
He should be above the law.
You are like a guy who got broken up with and can't get over it.
This is so deranged.
I always ever charge an analogy.
He only decided to run as a Republican after 75 years of being a public figure.
All right, let me bring you because I've always known he was a pea-brained little idiot.
Donald Trump is the dumbest man we've ever seen in public life.
And these guys are pretending he's smart.
He's like, well, how could he be a successful?
He's not a successful businessman.
Six major bankruptcies.
The Moroff built three casinos.
He has a successful bedroom.
He's built a whole lot of shows.
Yeah, he had a television show.
What is Joe Biden like?
They never made a living.
He's got a speed lines.
I can tell you he's got a producer lines on a fire.
He failed the bar example.
I can tell you his television show is very successful, and he showed extremely high levels of intelligence on that show, Cheng, because he may be the winner of celebrity apprentice.
Let me bring in Dennis.
It's not a business.
Let me bring in Dennis.
He's a carnival barker.
Actually, it made tons of money.
Hang on, the apprentice which he had a stake in made tons of money.
So that's not true.
Debate Styles Contrast00:02:54
Dinesh.
He didn't run the business.
Did he pierce?
It was difficult.
He didn't run the business.
He did have a stake in the business of the brand of Apprentice.
You know, now you're playing word games.
You said he had a stake in the business because he had equity in it as part of his deal as an actor.
They hired him to be an actor acting as a businessman when they knew, and they say now, yeah, we knew he was a failed loser businessman.
But he's the most sound.
Trump must be the most successful actor.
It's incredible that this P-braid loser managed to become president against the most qualified candidate in American history, Hillary Clinton.
There you go, Check.
Let me bring in Dinesh.
Because the American people hate the establishment.
That's why.
Dinesh, on the VP debate, does it matter what happens on Tuesday night?
Does it have any real consequence?
I think it does, in part because, well, certainly in the Trump case, Trump is well into his 70s.
I do think that people are thinking a little bit beyond Trump.
I think that JD, the question is whether JD Vance will sort of inherit the Trumpian mantle, so to speak.
I think the debate's going to be a contrast in styles.
And that is to say that Tim Wallace is clearly a kind of over-the-top populist from the left.
He gesticulates wildly.
He's the kind of guy who tries to make expressions of being an ordinary guy who fixes his own car.
And now, JD Vance is a little more cerebral.
And this is, in a way, a contest for whose rhetoric is actually going to speak more to the white working class.
And that appears to be a key swing constituency in the election.
So it's two populists, one from the right and one from the left, with two different styles appealing to the same group of people.
I totally agree with that.
Claudia, final word to you.
The VP debate, do you think people of your generation, do they pay much attention to the VP debates, do you think?
Absolutely.
And so much more than other years and other elections.
You know, historically, we haven't seen that a vice presidential pick has much impact on the election.
But this year, I mean, it's different.
Everybody's eyes are on Tim Walz and what he's saying and what he's doing with his cars.
And everybody's eyes are on JD Vance and what he's saying about this person and that person one day.
And tomorrow, you know, I do agree.
I think that Josh Shapiro would have been a much better pick.
And I think he would have killed JD Vance in a debate, but that's not the situation we're in right now.
So I'm a little concerned for both of them, quite frankly, but excited to see what's going to happen.
You know, all I would say is that before the presidential debate recently, I was utterly convinced that Donald Trump would flatline Carmela Harris in that debate, and I was completely wrong.