Princess Catherine's cancer-free announcement clashes with a Netflix polo promo by Meghan Markle and Prince Harry released just 100 minutes later. Guests Tessa Dunlop and Tom Bauer condemn the timing as cynical exploitation, labeling the Sussexes "remorseless, selfish" for monetizing royal tragedy while Piers Morgan defends their right to earn income post-monarchy. The debate highlights a stark divide between viewing the video as hopeful versus contrived, questioning whether the Queen would approve of such calculated narrative control and exposing the financial disparity between remaining royals and the Sussexes' perceived need to trade titles for survival. [Automatically generated summary]
Transcriber: nvidia/parakeet-tdt-0.6b-v2, sat-12l-sm, and large-v3-turbo
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Princess Catherine's Wretched Year00:02:57
I thought it was the most extraordinary advert for Englishness.
I did wonder how the late Queen would have responded to the public display of affection.
Well, I assumed that this was an Archwell production.
And what's the alternative, that she should sit and do a piece to camera, pose face?
At 100 minutes after this major revelation, by pure chance, Netflix, Megan and Harry decide that is the moment to promote a series that doesn't air until December.
They wanted to capitalize on all the publicity around the Kate announcement by saying, boom, by the way, don't forget about us.
They are just remorseless, selfish, false, ghastly couple.
What do you expect him to do to earn money to not trade off the institutions he trashes?
Kate's cancer video.
I know what we'll do.
We'll stick out our promo for our polo series.
Wow.
It's been a wretched year for Catherine, the Princess of Wales.
There was Kate's spirit, the botched Mother's Day photograph, months of vicious and unfounded rumors about her marriage.
And most seriously of all, of course, she was diagnosed with cancer.
But this week, to everyone's great relief, she announced that she's now through chemotherapy and is currently cancer-free.
To an end, I cannot tell you what a relief it is to have finally completed my chemotherapy treatment.
The last nine months have been incredibly tough for us as a family.
Life as you know it can change in an instant.
This time has above all reminded William and me to reflect and be grateful for the simple yet important things in life, which so many of us often take for granted, of simply loving and being loved.
Of course, these days we're not allowed to have nice things.
Social media critics and some commentators called it contrived, a cringe fest, and perhaps the most damning critique of all, like something Harry and Megan would do.
As you might imagine, I disagree.
In a late entry for the most tasteless and despicable deed of the summer, Harry and Meghan released an advertisement for their new documentary about polo, the world's most elite sport, just 90 minutes after Kate's announcement.
Well, joining me now to discuss all this is royal historian Tessa Dunlop, lawyer and commentator Paul Arone Adrian and author of Revenge, Megan, Harry and the Warburton the Windsors, Tom Bauer.
Welcome to all of you.
First of all I've seen you all since the end of the long hot summer.
Tom, let me start with you because it was an extraordinary way to make a statement.
I've never seen anything quite like it from a member of the royal family where we had this three-minute highly produced movie quality film.
But at the heart of it, as I wrote in The Sun, was a princess laying herself open and saying, I've realized what is really important in life is loving and being loved.
The Real Message Behind the Film00:11:32
And the film certainly showed that with her, her husband and her kids.
But what did you make of it?
Well, it was very gushing and it was beautifully made and it was unique in the sense we've never seen anything like that before with the British Royal family.
But I think the public mood towards Catherine is so beneficent.
Everyone loves her and wants her to survive and prosper and be the future queen.
That if that is the way she wants to reintroduce herself, everything is forgiven.
And I thought there was nothing nasty about it.
There was nothing over the top.
It was just, this is how I want to be known.
And that's fine.
I thought, therefore, I liked it.
And everything Catherine does, in my view, is over.
I found it very moving, but only because I think she's a young woman in her early 40s who's, we don't know what cancer it is, but it must have been serious, whatever this is, because it's taken her out of action now for most of the year.
She hasn't given any commitment to do any more engagements this year.
She may or may not, she says.
And, you know, I know somebody at the moment with terminal cancer, and we all know people who've been touched by cancer.
It is an appalling thing when it's someone you know going through this, both physically, but also mentally and emotionally for everyone.
Tessa, though, if you read what Daily Mo columnist Liz Jones said, she said the video, she said about the video, cancer is messy, imperfect, shattering.
After all the mental health initiatives, her work stressing the importance of shaping young minds, this strange, odd film seemed a misfire from a family once so protective of their privacy.
And Melanie McDonough in the stander wrote, forgive me, was it necessary to share this news with the nation in such an utterly grisly video?
It's as if she was advertising herbal essences, shampoo.
What do you think of that criticism?
Well, it's interesting.
It depends where you believe the key role of monarchy is.
And given that they are the future, the touchstone, if you like, and all eyes are on her internationally as well, I thought it was the most extraordinary advert for Englishness.
It was a golden summer that I didn't experience.
I mean, you went overseas.
Well, I did.
I was in Italy and France.
Those of us hunkered down in Britain.
So on the one hand, it was a brilliant advert for the nation.
So well done, Kate.
I'm sure the English Tourist Board are currently raking it in.
But there is a disconnect.
And I think the reason there's a disconnect is because this is a very different version of monarchy that places family in the smallest sense of the word first and monarchy, the institution, second.
What Kate's basically saying is, this is what I value the most, and it's my family.
And everything else, including being part of an institution of state, takes very much a back seat.
And I did wonder how the late Queen would have responded to the public display of affection.
Okay, so Paul, let's talk about that because the Queen, apart from the fact, well, can't it, there's been the world's worst statue of the Queen released today in Antrim in Belfort, which is quite extraordinary thing in Northern Ireland.
Let's part that horror story to one side.
People have said, well, the Queen would never have done it.
Interestingly, towards the end of her life, the Queen started doing some stuff, the Paddington Bear film, the Daniel Craig thing, things we would never have expected her to ever deign to do.
She was beginning to relax herself in terms of the kind of content she was prepared to put out, recognizing that in this kind of Instagram-friendly world we now live in, if you want to get to the eyeballs you want to get to to preserve the monarchy, you maybe got to get in this game a bit.
Yes, but if the point of this video was to control the narrative, which is what we hear a lot about, don't we?
I have to say I'm confused because when I watched the video, I was befuddled.
I couldn't understand the words I was hearing with them what I was seeing.
What I was seeing was, as you said yourself, Piers, something that was very well produced, very slick, very polished.
And it was almost like a show because on the one hand, we had George going up to the camera in his cute, cheeky way and saying, is this rolling?
Well, we know it's rolling and we know that you've got six cameramen standing behind you, etc.
And on top of that, honest to God, when I finished watching it, I wanted to know who the producer was because I assumed that this was an Archwell production.
Because this looked like a Harry and Meghan.
And was that bad?
Well, I'm not suggesting that that's why you might think it was bad.
I'm saying that it was very glossy, very California, very let's run barefoot in the sand.
And that to me didn't represent what the message I understood.
Someone posted that on X, as Liz Jones reported.
This isn't what cancer looks like.
Other sufferers will feel, well, I'm doing it all wrong.
Others commented, why are the wardrobe changes, the soft music, the slow motion?
It was intended to show they're a happy family, but did you have to try this hard?
Dot, dot, dot.
Hang on, for one minute, let's just cut the woman some slack.
We were like braying animals at the bars when she released a home-spun photograph with a little bit of tweaking here and there.
So can you blame her for going all out schmaltz and taking a leaf out of the Oso Californian book?
To be fair, I totally understand why this was choreographed to within one minute.
It's like a tear.
But then compare it with the video that we had at the end of March.
Forgive me if I'm incorrect about that date.
When Kate had to, sadly, she was forced, she was pushed into telling us that very personal detail about her cancer.
Again, that was soft-focused daffodils waving.
But it was her.
In this video, Piers, I didn't see Catherine.
What I saw was something that felt like an actress using the words of Catherine.
And that I thought was very interesting because, as I said, I wondered whether this was about having some kind of polished, controlling the narrative exercise rather than Catherine being able to say, everyone, I've made it through this very difficult hurdle and I'm on to the next stage.
I would also question some of the wording that was used.
For example, I'm here holding your hand, other cancer sufferers.
And I would have thought we would have seen that.
I would have thought we would have seen Catherine.
I mean, literally see her with other cancer patients.
Absolutely.
Okay, but I would take issue with that because when I read that last line, I thought what I liked about it, and we'll come to the Duke and Duchess of Sussex element of this, but everything they do, in my opinion, and we can argue about this, is self-aggrandizing.
It's to promote themselves.
It's to do, you know, whatever they want to do.
This was a charity word to work with inviction.
This was a princess laying herself bare and saying, I understand that there are a lot of people out there with cancer.
And I just want you to know that I'm metaphorically here with you.
That's why I'm doing this.
I want to shine a light on cancer and everything else.
I thought that was powerful.
Isn't that actually the duty and role of the monarchy?
Is that the senior players do, even though we know they live in palaces, we know they have servants, we know they have all the trinkets, ultimately they put a kind of metaphorical arm around us, say, we're with you.
They're like the country's comfort blanket.
I totally agree.
And that was the issue.
That was the juxtaposition for me because I was hearing these words and I was confused as to, okay, I mean, I've got family members who have thankfully survived their cancer journeys.
It didn't look anything like that.
And that's not to say that Catherine's journey needs to look like my family members' journey or anybody else's children.
Let me bring in Tom.
Is that a fair?
No, because you don't know what the journey was like.
And I'm accepting that.
What we're seeing is the end of the journey, so to speak.
And, you know, she wanted to reintroduce herself to the public.
I thought it was very, very wonderful to see the happy family.
I think they have to appeal to the youth of Britain who are not natural monarchists.
They wanted to show that they were a happy family again.
And what's the alternative?
That she should sit and do a piece to camera, po-faced.
I mean, how should she?
But what about the criticism that if she talked about holding the hands of everyone who's got cancer, maybe having some footage of her actually with her?
Well, another time.
You know, she clearly hasn't got over it.
She's got through the chemotherapy.
There's a lot more to go.
It'll be five years before any doctor says you're asking permission.
Exactly.
All she wanted to do was sound back.
Last time she did it with the photo, she was criticised.
She's criticised whatever she does.
That's the terrible thing about this guy.
She can't get it right for some people.
she can only get it right because she is the future of the monarchy.
And if that is the way she is advised to reintroduce herself, if that is the way in which in this beautiful film, schmucky but lovely, that is the way it is.
Funny enough, I think it was all from her.
I just got the real feeling she wasn't advised to do it this way.
She decided...
Well, she chooses her advisors.
Yeah.
And her advisors give her what she wants and then translate it into that film.
And that's fine.
I think, you know, she has got to imagine, and I think this is right from her point of view, she's got to take the monarchy onto the next stage.
She's got to anticipate that there's a whole new two generations.
And young people, you know, the monarchy is getting slightly less popular, right, as the years go by.
It's bombed out.
Well, it's getting slightly less popular.
They are the big stars of this royal family.
All the polls show that William and Kate are the top two most popular by a mile in this country.
And that, you know, the bottom three, Prince Andrew, Harry, Megan, they're there because of their behaviour.
As I've tried to tell you, you can't kid the public for that long.
So if the public are being given one particular piece of information, particular piece of information, it's been repeated consistently.
I think people get judged on their own actions, actually.
Well, if they did get judged on their own actions.
Let's come to them in a moment.
I want to make a point, though, Tessra, about this.
The king still has cancer.
We don't know how serious that is.
He's been seen out and about.
But, you know, you're 75, you've got cancer.
That's pretty serious.
So we don't know how long he will be with us.
I mean, I hope for a very long period of time.
But if, God forbid, you know, he suddenly deteriorated and wasn't with us, William is suddenly propelled to be the king of his country.
And Kate will be his queen.
And the future of the monarchy, as Tom said, rests on their shoulders.
But I actually thought, and I want to go back to the set dressing, timeless England, a forest, the ancient oak, this idea of a land that will endure irrespective of who monarchy is.
And we see several options.
We see young George.
Oh, he talks.
Oh, he's bright-eyed and bushy-tailed.
We see William loving his wife, sickly or otherwise, and Charles is in the background.
This is about the future and beyond.
What disturbed me slightly, and here there were echoes with American Riviera Orchard, is the way in which the two leading female protagonists, Kate and Megan, are taking us way back when to the 1950s.
Megan with her mixing bowl and flowers, Kate skipping through cornfields, the sort of fecund mother, you know, making a recovery just to be loving and laughed and maybe a little bit of light work.
Royals Returning to Hope00:12:57
And actually, I don't think that is representative of the standard woman who gets cancer, who's a mother, and is also having to bushfight on other fronts.
And I think I wanted something that spoke to modern women today.
And neither of our Megan or Kate.
Do you want a shot of her in the hospital getting the tablet, the chemotherapy tablet?
No, but it was a very old-fashioned.
It wasn't old-fashioned.
It wasn't old-fashioned because the Queen would never have done it.
It was very modern and she showed a modern family.
I don't know what you mean about the journey.
She's gone through it.
She's clearly had those horrendous times and she wants to show some hope.
And I think that's what the country wants.
They want to see that the royal family offers hope again.
It's back in business, so to speak.
It isn't terminal as it was appeared six months ago.
Well, yeah, I agree.
And let's just mention the second part of this, which is literally 90 minutes.
I count.
I have 100 minutes.
It was 100 minutes later.
Netflix dropped a promo for the new Archuel Productions documentary series about polo.
And up it came on everyone's social media.
And look, there's three things you could say about this in terms of what was behind this.
One, it was a complete and utter coincidence that 100 minutes after this major revelation and announcement and film from Kensington Palace, by pure chance, Netflix, Meghan and Harry decide that is the moment to promote a series that doesn't air until December.
The chances of that, I would say, are No Hope and Bob Hope.
And Bob Hope has been dead for many years.
Secondly, they did it to draw attention away from their rival Palace, from the sibling that Harry hates and doesn't talk to, from the sister-in-law that Meghan hates and doesn't talk to, and vice versa.
Or that thirdly, they wanted to, and this is probably my preferred theory, they wanted to capitalize on all the publicity around the Kate announcement by saying, boom, by the way, don't forget about us.
Now, interestingly, Paula, you might recoil in horror.
I am.
You never like to be...
I am.
You never like to be brought too closely to reality with these two about just how cynical they can be.
But interestingly, it completely bombed.
The next day's papers barely mentioned at all this polo series, nor did any other publications I saw around the world.
It's all front page on Kate and William, Kate and William.
Why do they do this kind of thing?
Well, the moment Netflix did it, even if it was an accident, why wouldn't the first thing you would do is ring them and say, please take that down?
That's just going to backfire.
Well, I'm going to suggest that you're incredibly cynical when it comes to Harry Mendelshire.
Very, very cynical.
Anything they do.
With good reason.
And I'm also going to suggest that your grasp on reality, because of your cynicism, means that it's waning.
Let's be honest, Piers.
Because the fact is, you know that when you come to market a show, it is done months in advance.
This is not about Harry and you think it was pure coincidence.
This is not about...
No, I don't think it was coincidence.
I think the date was...
No.
I think the date had always been set for when Netflix were going to first advert.
You want to take a bet on that?
And I can give you an example.
Do you want to bet on that?
No, I don't, because I don't know that.
No, you don't.
No, but can I give you an example?
Give it a pound.
Can I give you an example?
Can I give you an example?
Because you know it's nonsense.
Work with me with my example.
Bear with me.
Control the cynicism.
I am going to be in a show.
That show does not come out until October.
It was advertised from April of this year.
Yeah.
That's not my point.
Yes, it is.
Let me bring in Tom for a reality shake.
Yes it is because you're not going to be able to.
Tom, you and I have been around the media for a little longer than young Paula.
I hope you don't mind me calling it up.
I'm very happy.
Everything's relative.
Tom, is there any world in which this just happened by chance?
Someone heard about it.
He said, promote the...
Because the only raison d'être of the Sussexes is to capitalise on their royal connections.
Right.
And the royal connections have got to be to associate themselves with the British royalty.
But what does it say about them that they would be happy for this promotion to go out within two hours of such a personal film about cancer from Kate?
They are just remorseless, selfish, false, ghastly couple who only believe in promoting themselves because that, in the end, is their only source of money.
And what is very interesting in all this, which has never got commented on, that when Harry came back to England for Robert Fellows' uncle's funeral a few weeks ago, he didn't go up to see his father.
No, stay with Earl Stanford.
But he could have gone up to Scotland.
The man who dashed over when it was all announced, he forgot about his dad.
And so the whole thing is always...
And also, he managed to come and go without any threat to his life.
No threat to his relationship.
The problem is about the Sussexes is so contrived, so self-interested, so unbelievably appalling that one can only imagine that they really wish Kate and William ill.
Yes, the rest of the world.
Of course, I think that's very uncomfortable.
That's leveled the accusation of Harry and Megan as being contrived in the same breath as you admit Kate can basically do what she likes.
And yes, you said it with Schmaltze, et cetera, et cetera, i.e. highly controlled.
Here's the difference.
So in other words, Kate can be as controlled as she's going to be.
Tessa, Tessa, Harry and Medical Flow.
Tessa, here's the difference.
Kate's film is about her cancer.
Her truth.
Her truth.
No, no.
No, but it's her truth.
No, no.
It's not about her truth.
She has cancer.
Yes.
She's not inventing it.
No, I'm not suggesting she's.
But people talk about my truth.
It normally means it's not the truth.
No, but there is the truth.
It's not her truth.
It's part of the story.
No, it's not.
It's a fact.
She has cancer.
Okay.
But we don't know what cancer is.
And it's a fact she's had chemotherapy.
We know a lot more about what's happened to her than we normally do about royal health issues.
But here's the difference.
She's making no money out of this.
Oh, she makes it.
Hang on, let me finish my point.
This is a very personal thing about her health because she's the future queen and we've been demanding to know.
Megan and Harry's video or their promo for their documentary is a pure money-making exercise trading off their royal titles to fill their coffers with yet more ill-gotten cash.
That's why Tom and I are so cynical about it.
Because we see right through it.
I don't know how you get on with basic arithmetic, but since the late Queen acceded to the throne, followed by Charles, the value of the Duchy of Lancaster and the Duchy of Cornwall put together, and William now, of course, is a Duke over the Duchy of Cornwall, has increased in value 16-fold.
1.6 billion pounds worth of profits.
So what?
Exempt of capital gains, exempt of corporation, which, by the way, would cover Holus Folus the entire winter feed.
It's not nonsense.
Tom, it's £100,000.
What's your point?
What's your point?
My point is, Kate does not have to worry about money.
And in fact, after we've experienced the Labour budget, which I think will attack inherited wealth, the only people who will be entirely untouched by New Reality Britain will be the royal family.
What does that have to do with what Meghan and Harry did?
Because you have accused them of trying to make money because not trying to make money.
Let me just say something.
Tom.
Because they said when they left England that they wanted nothing to do with the royal family.
They said that they were going to look for their privacy and look for a completely solitary life in California.
And then all they've done since reaching California is attach themselves to the royal family.
They're phony to us.
Well, they've done two things.
They've attached themselves to the royals as much as they can to profit from being royals, whilst at the same time relentlessly attacking the members of the royal family and the monarchy.
Okay, but you've just accused them of leeching onto the royal family.
And then in the same breath, two seconds ago, you said he didn't even go to Balmoral to see his father.
I remember Harry's leaving.
That is not contradictory at all.
That is not a contradiction.
I remember Harry's leaving very different from you.
Either he cares about his father or he doesn't.
And the whole point about this.
But what about his father saying that he didn't have time in his diary to see him?
Well, because the whole thing was contrived by Harry.
He wasn't going to be a puppet.
You know why, Paul?
I'm told on very good authority, I won't say who told me this, that there are the vast majority now of the royal family, almost all of them, almost without exception, don't want to have anything to do with Megan and Harry because they don't trust them not to repeat what they tell them.
Well, I'm telling you as a fact.
Let's go back to the question, which was about Harry and Megan being able to earn money.
My memory of Harry leaving is very different from yours, Tom.
My memory of Harry and Megan leaving was that Harry had asked if he could do certain things and stay as a member of the royal family.
And I understand that he was not able to stay as a member of the royal family and do those things.
You're not unique.
So everyone knows that.
He had to leave.
He didn't have to leave.
He did not have to leave.
He could have stayed and done his duty.
He could have stayed and done his duty.
He did it.
Which is, by the way, what goes with the royal title.
So that he didn't feel that Megan was safe.
So he had to leave.
And when and when he was.
I can't believe you.
And when he made the decision to leave, with respect, I allowed you to speak and you are now talking about the people.
She was literally in downtown Bogota.
I'll wait for you to see.
Not safe to come from the UK, but finally go to Columbia.
I mean, excuse me a favor.
Well, I didn't see the paparazzi hounding her in Colombia or in Nigeria.
She also went to Nigeria.
Are you mocking Columbia or something?
Tell me what I'm mocking.
The fact that they think they're entitled to do rival royal tours, which only promote them when they do zero royal duty on behalf of this country.
And that's why they decided to do it.
All for themselves.
But coming back to the money point, because I think this is really important because you hear this all the time.
So he left his family, as many people do in difficult circumstances.
They make the decision to leave their family.
No problem.
What do you expect him to do to earn money?
Not trade off the institution he trashes.
Not trade off the institution.
On the contrary, he trashes.
They damage the monarchy.
Every time they do something, they damage the monarchy.
And yet they want to at the same time trade off the royal title.
You're giving him the power to say that he's a good person.
I would take away their power.
I would remove their titles.
No, if I was King Charles, take the titles away.
Try your luck as Harry and Megan, regular Joes.
What is that?
The Duke and Duchess of Sussex members of the royal family.
You are saying that he has done some of the things.
Lies and lied and lied to what provides you.
No, no, no, no.
I'm not saying what you're saying he did.
I'm saying what is the damage?
Because you have to accept.
No, no, the damage.
Let's focus on that word.
Because you accept that they are not popular.
Let me give an example.
Let me give an example.
I would like to explain that.
What about calling them a bunch of callous racists?
Yeah.
The damage.
What damage is that?
What about the damage for calling them racists?
The damage.
Can I explain what I perceive to be peer-to-peer?
The issue of that colonialism goes far further than Harry and Megan.
You know that.
Where is the evidence for the racism?
There isn't any.
These two old busties, what they love more than anything in the world is the monarchy.
Harry and Megan turned their backs on the monarchy, the Britain's beloved monarchy, and that has wounded Piers and Tom.
They're not allowed freedom of choice.
That is the truth.
Chess.
They're not allowed to damage it.
You want them to be like Sophie and Edward.
They couldn't make it in the media world, so they became the duty of the people.
And she's hugely admiring as Sophie and Edwards.
And I do.
And I'm doing that.
On behalf of the country.
Why should Harry and Megan have to be like that?
Because they didn't leave the monarchy.
If they had left the monarchy and given up their titles and gone and been celebrities in California, no problem.
It's the fact they want to have their royal cake and eat it.
They want to be royals while dumping on the royal family.
They are royals.
It's not that they want to be.
Let's be clear.
They are royals.
And what you want them to do is to scurry and hide underneath your rocks.
Stop lying.
They are not going to do that.
Stop thrashing the royal family.
But they haven't lied recently.
Recently.
Oh, my God.
No, let's.
Oh, my God.
And by the way, what about this priceless nugget to end on?
People magazine, which is one of the most gossipy magazines in the world, America's number one gossip magazine.
Today did a tweet, a post on X, in which they said that Prince Harry had emailed them his personal thoughts about his 40th birthday.
Is that your thoughts?
On Sunday.
Stop Thrashing the Royal Family00:01:12
Here's my thoughts.
Prince Privacy, the guy who sues every publication he can think of for invading his privacy, is now emailing America's number one gossip magazine to give them all the inside go down.
Again, you literally, come on.
He was asked a question and he responded to the question.
Personally email people magazine.
Okay, so what, how is he going to?
Is that me saying, I really want my privacy?
By the way, I'm not seeing merely the National Inquirer to let them know what I'm doing for my birthday.
Do me a favor!
He hasn't.
All right, we've got to leave it.
We've got to leave it there.
I'm lovely to see you all.
I'm angry.
You know what I'm angry?
I'm very angry.
I'm angry.
Even though the polls show how unpopular they are because of the way they behave, you two are the last two standing.
You have done it.
If you drag the sassicus onto the table and talked about them, we could have stuck with Kate.
Kate's cancer video.
I know what we'll do.
We'll stick out our promo for our polo series.
Wow.
Okay.
Thank you all very much.
Great to see you all.
Especially after the long, boring summer without you.