Former President Donald Trump survives a sniper attack at the RNC, sparking a heated debate on Dave Rubin's show between guests Corey Mills and Destiny Sanner. Mills accuses the Secret Service of negligence regarding the unmanned roof, while Sanner refuses to condemn the attempt as an attack on democracy, claiming no sympathy for conservative rhetoric or even a firefighter killed defending his family. The discussion escalates over vaccine hesitancy, Elon Musk's demonetization of Sanner, and the January 6th Capitol attack, revealing deep moral divides that challenge traditional narratives of empathy and security responsibility. [Automatically generated summary]
Transcriber: nvidia/parakeet-tdt-0.6b-v2, sat-12l-sm, and large-v3-turbo
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The Bullseye Controversy00:03:18
We don't know what's happened here.
No one can yet give a legitimate explanation.
But you're clearly implying that it is odd.
Yeah, go ahead.
Tell me your lunatic conspiracy theory about how odd.
I don't have any...
If you say to me, I've been told by experts.
Listen, I've been told by many experts in the last 36 hours.
There's an entire cultural machine that has lied.
There is an entire real time.
That's it.
That's why conservatives deserve absolutely zero sympathy.
You sound almost gleeful, Destiny.
And I'm sorry.
That makes you frankly despicable.
I'm not going to get on my knees and beg for forgiveness or show sympathy.
I'm not asking for that.
I'm asking you to condemn what happened as an egregious attack on democracy.
Can you do that?
No, I won't.
No, I won't.
I won't.
You can't do that.
You see, so why the hell?
Frankly, Destiny.
Absolutely not.
Why the hell should we listen to a word you have to say?
Former President Trump is the king of the political comeback, but even by his own lofty standards, the past four days have been utterly sensational.
After coming within a hair's breadth of assassination, last night he made a stunning return to the spotlight at the RNC.
And for once, the gravity of the occasion was not lost on him.
Jay Trump.
We are grateful for you to be our nominee for the 47th President of the United States of America.
Well, Trump hasn't made an entrance quite like that since he descended the golden escalator in 2015 to announce his first run for president.
Bandaged and emotional, he walked into the arena like a UFC star and got the reception to match.
Well, the many people who've criticized security fedings at his rally on Saturday were quick to point out that his detail this time round seemed to be made up entirely of strapping men.
But the focus of the night was undoubtedly Trump himself, a man who now looks like he's seriously preparing for a return to running the country.
President Biden, meanwhile, fumbled questions about his own incendiary rhetoric in the lead-up to Saturday's shooting.
You called your opponent an existential threat on a call a week ago.
You said it's time to put Trump in the bullseye.
There's some dispute about the context, but I think you appreciate that.
Yeah, the term was bullseye.
It was a mistake to use the word.
I didn't say crosshairs.
I mean, bullseye.
I mean, focus on him.
Focus on what he's doing.
What a pathetic excuse for, frankly, an increasingly pathetic president.
Let's be crystal clear.
Nobody thought Biden was talking about archery when he used the word bullseye, and he knows it.
The presidential move would have been to say that everyone on all sides needs to dial down their incendiary rhetoric.
But this president hasn't looked presidential for a long time now.
One positive move Biden's made in the fallout from the tragedy on Saturday is to finally order the Secret Service to protect R.F. Kennedy Jr., the last thing America needs right now is yet more political violence, especially involving a Kennedy.
Extraordinary Sniper Details00:05:05
Well, in a moment, we'll meet tonight's panel to debate all this, but joining me now is a former counter sniper in the State Department and the current Florida Republican Congressman, Corey Mills.
Corey Mills, thank you very much indeed for joining uncensored.
First of all, I can't think of anyone better equipped in the political world than you to comment on what appears to have been a massive failing by the Secret Service. on Saturday in their duty to protect President Trump.
What did you make of it?
Well, I just want to say I really loved your monologue just now that talked about the idea of dialing down political rhetoric on both sides, as well as the dangers of utilizing words like in the bullseye or, you know, regardless of what he says he went to indicate, it's obviously what he indicated was that he wants to put him in the crosshairs.
But, you know, I just want to go ahead and say that, you know, this, in my opinion, is such a massive failure.
It's such a big negligence on behalf of the advanced teams to say that a target, which is 160 yards away, perfectly adjacent to the stage, was outside the perimeter.
The perimeter is formed and it's discerned by the counter sniper teams, by the advanced teams, and by the security details.
I can tell you as someone who has conducted thousands of advances, both on the Afghan and Iraq side, as well as for back home, has done multiple counter sniper team deployments, looking at overwatch positions, looking at how we react and mitigate threats, that this in its entirety, and I'm not a conspiracist, Pierce.
I'm not one who tries to find my way to a inside job type of setup, but I am also a military guy who believes in the what-if scenarios of all things.
And I think the American people deserve a true investigation, not by the FBI, but by Congress, to look and identify every single area from local force consolidation, from looking at the cooperations that were on the ground, from resource allocations by the director of the Secret Service.
And I think that people deserve to feel confident that this wasn't anything but massive malice or negligence as opposed to something that was intentional.
Yeah, I completely agree.
I mean, there's some extraordinary details emerging.
Local news network in Pittsburgh has reported a member of Beaver County, Pennsylvania's emergency services unit, noticed the suspicious man on the roof near the rally at 5.45 p.m., called it in and took a picture of the person, the shooter, 26 minutes before he was able to fire off eight shots.
There's then the footage, as we've seen, of other members of the public seeing him crawling across the rooftop.
That's right.
There's also snipers who are in position who appear to be looking at this guy too, and yet he's still able to fire eight bullets, which seems completely extraordinary.
It seems very suspicious.
Especially if it's all happening 150 meters from President Trump, who has been president and may well be again.
Well, it seems very suspicious.
In police work, they call these clues.
The thing that really was sounding off to me, though, is the fact that at a minimum, let's just go ahead and give every single possibilities of just negligence as opposed to something else.
You could have put and said, there's not enough resources.
All right, fine.
Let's put a patrol car in the parking lot of AGR, which was the company with the doors locked and the lights on.
There's a deterrence.
Let's look at the fact that an emergency comms channel should have been set in place for the Secret Service and the local police force in cooperation and coordination so that when that officer who came to the rooftop and says that he had the rifle pointed at him, could have immediately descended and keeping himself safe and also said, shoot her on the roof, shoot her on the roof, shoot on the roof, which would allow the detail to have then immediately gotten on the stage to protect the president.
There's so much about this, Pierce, not to mention there was a water tower that was only a couple hundred yards away, which is a sniper's paradise that people aren't even talking about.
This shot, Pierce, is so simple.
And I just want to paint a picture for your viewers, which is that if you were to take not even a sniper rifle, but your basic production rifle that comes off an assembly line that you could buy in an average store, and you were to take a person with very little experience in 10 minutes, I could train them to be able to utilize this rifle to hit targets at a pie-sized plate at 200 yards without a problem.
Well, you know, you know, actually, I mean, just on that point, when I was at CNN, I spent a day down in Texas at a gun store in a gun range.
And I did end up firing an AR-15, which is believed to be the semi-automatic rifle the shooter used.
That's right.
And is the preferred weapon of choice for most mass shooters these days.
And I was absolutely staggered about how light and easy it was to use and how very quickly, how accurate I was able to fire it, never having fired guns in my entire life.
So I can completely endorse what you've just said.
It is a very easy to use weapon.
And he was so-it's one that within, if you think about it, we call it minutes of angle on each rifle, which means that's essentially it looks at your bullet trajectory, your bullet compensation, all these different things.
But what you would say is that at 100 yards, you have a one-inch grouping capability, a 200 to 2 inch, et cetera, et cetera, which means that at 160 yards, that rifle, let's just say it's not even a good rifle.
It's only a two MOA rifle, is only shooting a 3.2 inch grouping.
The average head is 6 by 8.
The average shoulder is 20 inches long.
Planned Assassination Fears00:16:08
The average head to waist is 40 inches.
So when you think about this is a game of milliseconds and millimeters that saved the president's life from being an attempted to an actual assassination, this is really something that I hate to say it.
I have to just be like this, but it's got to be divine intervention to the thoughts that this didn't eliminate and take out the life of Donald Trump and the fact that it should have been prevented from the beginning.
Corey, the other thing that struck me as extraordinary in terms of the way the Secret Service responded to the shooting was after the president was hit, they dragged him to the floor, but they then allowed him to stand back up.
And one of the female agents in front of him was clearly a lot shorter than Donald Trump.
And therefore, his whole sort of upper torso, including his head, was clearly visible to potentially other shooters who may have been in the area, which nobody knew at the time.
That does not strike me as normal Secret Service protocol.
Well, you know, they did a good job of putting the body barrier on him.
But I will note, though, prior to actually having the president stand up, you hear one of the Secret Service officers ask, is shooters down, shooters down?
So they at least were looking at the existing and the obvious threat as being mitigated.
And so that is kind of within protocol.
I do understand your concern as well, which is mine, which is that there wasn't enough to actually body shield if you look at the height and the size of President Trump with someone else.
This is why, and I don't mean this to be, you know, kind of hyperbolic or that it's trying to be a rhetoric to try and spin things up, but this is why when we look at the ideas of the DEI, the diversity, equity, inclusion, it does put things at risk when you say we need a percentage of X, right?
Because DEI can mean DIE.
We have to think about the fact that it should be about meritocracy, and especially when you're talking about the protection of the president or other lives.
Well, it was very striking to me that last night when Trump appeared at the RNC convention to wild applause, it was an amazing scene.
He looked quite emotional, actually, but he was surrounded by a far bigger number of Secret Service agents, all of whom appeared to be very big, tall men.
Well, I think that you see where the entire RNC and especially here in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, has really ramped up their security protocols and for obvious reasons.
Sometimes it is a bit of a knee jerk where they overcompensate for a failure in the past.
And I think that's what they've done in some cases here when it comes to the RNC.
But certainly the president, he definitely needs this protection.
I agree with you.
There was a different look in the president, a look of unification, a look, not of fear, but of defiance.
And of the fact that we have to understand he also saved his own life.
He did exactly what he was trained to do, which is that when you take fire, even from a tactical perspective in the military, otherwise, you drop to the ground, you minimize your silhouette, and then you go ahead and look at where the actual target or what they call a react-to-contact drill is to mitigate the threat.
What the president does in his actual hour or moments after the incident is truly remarkable.
I've trained with people who the fight or flight reaction and individuals, even being trained, they get stunned.
They freeze, you know, in the event of getting hit or getting shot.
The president didn't stand in fear.
He stood in defiance.
And he wanted to also let the American people know that he was okay by putting his fist in the air and saying, fight, fight, fight.
He meant that not in a way to try and keep the temperatures high, but fight for America, fight for our republic, fight for what is right.
And I can tell you that we need to, in the political world, take it down a notch and think about the fact that words matter, the things that we say matter.
We have to start thinking about the humanistic qualities of people and put political ideology aside.
Realize that we're husbands, we're fathers, that we're sons, we're brothers, we're daughters, we're mothers.
These things take priority.
But this type of negligence, Pierce, does warrant, in my opinion, not just an FBI investigation.
It needs to come into the House.
It needs to have a J-13 style commission.
And we need to investigate and get all findings so we can put any type of potential conspiracies or even any concerns aside that this was done anything other than negligence.
Right.
And, you know, the Secret Service director, Cheetah, was interviewed last night and said this.
Let's watch a clip.
When you saw the events unfold on Saturday.
Shock and then concern.
This is an event that should have never happened.
Who is most responsible for this happening?
What I would say is that the Secret Service is responsible for the protection of the former president.
So the buck stops with you?
The buck stops with me.
The president and Homeland Security Secretary said today they had 100% confidence in you, but there are some members of Congress calling on you to resign.
You plan to stay on, absolutely.
I do plan to stay on.
Are you surprised she still got the job?
You know, I'll be honest with you, the idea of saying mea culpa or that responsibility is the same as accountability has been a problem within all elected positions and appointments positions.
I think that she should resign.
I think that she should accept her failures.
Leaders lead, and when they fail, they accept that failure and they understand it's time to step aside.
But at minimum, if she refuses to step aside, when we do our actual investigations, and I hope we get a J-13 style commission, I just text Speaker Johnson just now and feel that my background and kind of unique experience would be great to head this up.
But I'm going to look at minimum, the Holman rule, which will take her salary down to $1.
And hopefully that will encourage her to leave because we need true leadership, Pierce.
And we need to make sure that our president, President Biden, our vice president, Kamala Harris, our former president who's now our nominee, President Trump and Vice President Pence, or sorry, Vance, will ensure that they're safe.
This is not a political thing.
This is about Americans being safe to be able to go ahead and serve our nation without fear.
Yeah.
And also I'd add RFK Jr., who was on my show only two weeks ago, bemoaning the fact that even though his name is Kennedy and both his father and his uncle were both assassinated, that's a political motivation.
But he was still not allowed to have a Secret Service detail.
He now has.
Let's take a look at what he told me, actually, and I'll get your response.
I'm the first candidate in history whose requests at Secret Service protection has been denied.
I've had several credible threats on my life.
The Secret Service itself, we provided them 68 pages of detailed death threats and other threats against me.
And they examined my case and they said that I was at an accelerated risk.
The White House still has refused to give me protection.
And it's only now that there was an assassination attempt on Donald Trump that he's finally, that Biden has finally allowed him to have a Secret Service detail, which seems to me shamefully too late.
Pierce, it's shameful.
It's unconscionable the fact that an individual, just because he doesn't sit within a Democrat Party or Republican Party, is any less deserving of his safety and protection, especially a man who, as you pointed out, had his father and his uncle assassinated and killed, a man who has credible threats against his life from either side.
The bottom line is, Pierce, is that this cannot be about partisan politics.
If this individual is running for presidency, if he can tangibly show that he's at risk, why would you not allocate the necessary resources to keep this man safe?
Congressman Corey Mills, thank you very much to David joining me.
I appreciate it.
Thank you, Pierce.
Honored.
Well, join me now as commentator and streamer Destiny, host of the Dave Rubin Show, Dave Rubin, co-founder of the Young Turks, Chen Uger, and the Outkick host, Charlie Arnold.
Well, welcome to all of you.
Check Yuga, we've spoken a lot about this presidential race over the last year.
Where are we now with this?
Is it right to assume that two things have happened as a result of this attempted assassination?
One is that Donald Trump has got exponentially more popular because people feel a real empathy with him for what happened.
And secondly, that Joe Biden is more likely than not now to remain the Democrat nominee.
Yeah.
So there's no reason to unilaterally surrender to Donald Trump now, but that's what it looks like the Democrats are doing.
So I hope that they pick up the campaign to oust Biden again because he's clearly not going to win.
All the interviews are disasters.
I don't want to surrender to Trump, but apparently Democratic officials are considering it, which would be just keeping Biden in the race.
That is a form of surrender because they don't want to waste any of their so-called talent because they're so despondent about the race.
I think that's pathetic.
They should fight.
And if they have a new ticket, they still have a perfectly good chance of beating Donald Trump.
Now, I do want to say, though, there's a second topic here.
Your interview with Corey Mills, Representative Mills there, I think it was dangerous and wrong.
So you guys said, oh, well, you know, this shouldn't be a partisan thing and we should turn down the rhetoric.
And then you implied that maybe the Secret Service or the Biden administration allowed the shooting to happen.
Well, no, nobody imagines that.
Nobody implied that.
Definitely did, Pierce.
Well, I certainly did.
You kept talking about who, well, look, I'm not saying conspiracy theory, but hey, it's so easy to find.
And you didn't just say negligence.
I didn't.
And forget about you, Corey Mills.
He didn't say all of that.
He said, maybe it's not just negligence.
I didn't say that.
Is a lunatic suggesting?
Am I allowed to respond?
Yeah, go ahead.
Okay.
First of all, I didn't say anything that you just said.
Secondly, he did raise the specter that there's something very odd about all this.
And by the way, there is.
I'm not a conspiracy theorist either.
But the idea that President Trump, who was recently the president of the United States and is very likely to be again, was shot from 150 meters by a kid with an AR-15 who was seen by spectators nearly a minute before he unloaded eight bullets in the direction of Donald Trump is very, very strange.
And if you don't think it is, then I think you're being a little bit disingenuous.
Now, what is the nature of that?
So what is the nature of that strangeness?
We don't know what's happened here, right?
But no one can yet give a legitimate explanation as to why this could possibly have happened.
Pierce, if you say it's negligence, I'm with you.
If you say it's malpractice, okay, I get it.
160 feet.
Why is he on the roof, et cetera?
But you're clearly implying that it is odd as in not negligence, but something that was in the government.
No, I'm not.
I don't know.
Hey, get out of here, man.
What the hell?
Jesus Christ with these lunatic Republicans, total lunatic Republicans.
Yeah, go ahead.
Tell me your lunatic conspiracy theory about how odd.
I don't have any conspiracy theories.
Do you not think it's odd, Cheng Uger, that this kid could crawl across a roof unmanned and just fire off eight bullets at President Trump from 150 meters?
Do you not find that odd?
So I find it deeply troubling.
I think that there should be an investigation to see how they screwed this up.
I think the fact that they didn't get there on the roof quicker speaks poorly of them.
On the other hand, can we acknowledge that the Secret Service surrounded the president and would have taken a bullet for him and would have died for him?
But all they're getting now is odd conspiracy theories about how maybe aren't you implying, hold on, Piers, you tell me.
Aren't you implying that they let it happen?
Aren't you implying that obviously?
What does odd mean?
What does odd mean?
No, but I'll tell you what odd means.
I'll tell you what odd means.
Odd means that the Secret Service's primary function is to preserve the life of whoever is president of the United States, right?
And they allowed this roof to be unmanned.
Allow.
Allow.
You use the word allow.
Okay.
Somebody made a decision not to have that roof patrolled, even though you don't even know that.
Hang on.
Well, somebody did because it wasn't patrolled.
No, that's also not true.
But it is true.
It is true.
Pierce, Piers, we don't know the last time they looked at that roof.
We don't know if they looked at it and then the guy crawled on.
Here's what we do now.
Now you mentioned holding there was nobody on the roof from the Secret Service.
Why?
So you're telling me that you know that under Biden, Trump and all the other presidents that every roof had a Secret Service person on it in the United States.
Can you ever remember?
Can you ever know that?
Can you ever remember a president or presidential candidate who was a president giving a speech at a public rally where a roof 150 meters from his head is unprotected by Secret Service?
Can you name one speech?
How the hell would I say that?
How the hell would you, Piers, how the hell would you know that?
You don't know anything.
I am told that.
So if you say to me, hold on, if you say to me, listen, I've been told by many experts in the last 36 hours like that lunatic Republican you just had on, who's an expert.
Actually, no.
Oh, yeah.
I'm not sure.
Well, he was just met negligence.
Then what does that mean?
Then you think it was allowed.
Actually, the Congressman planned it.
Who planned it?
Actually, the congressman that I spoke to was on the sniper protection detail for Joe Biden when he was vice president.
He probably knows more about it than you do, with great respect.
Unless you're about to tell me you are a covert sniper protector, are you?
No, I'm telling you that we don't know anything about when they checked the building.
We do know that there was the red-haired guy who talked to the BBC.
He told the cops, then the cops showed up.
It's not like they didn't show up.
And so if you say, hey, we should investigate and find out when was the last time they did the perimeter check?
When did they get on that roof?
I totally agree.
If you say negligence, I totally agree.
If you say Trump was brave in that moment, I totally agree.
But if you start implying, which you definitely are, and Corey Mills definitely is, that it was planned or that it was so odd that it happened.
You're saying it like the Epstein thing was odd.
The Epstein thing was actually odd.
So I'm, yeah, the video cameras out.
That makes me think, yes, there was something planned.
I'm brave enough to say that.
Instead, you're implying it, Corey Mills is implying it.
So just say it then.
No, no.
Don't tell, what does odd mean?
Okay, again, I will say to you, I am not saying anything was planned.
I'm not saying there was any inside job at the Secret Service to allow this to happen.
I am simply saying...
You're implying that.
You get that, right?
Here's what I'm saying.
Here's what I'm implying.
Here's what I'm implying.
There was such a catastrophically negligent failure here by the Secret Service.
I completely understand why so many people are utterly bemused that this could ever have been allowed to happen.
The idea you have a perfect vantage point over Donald Trump from 150 meters at a public rally, given how divisive and polarizing he is, given how vehemently some people hate him, and given the threats of violence he's had on many, many occasions, the idea that that roof remained unmanned by Secret Service is to me very bloody odd, Cenk.
Yes.
So you're implying that there is a chance that it was planned.
No, I'm not.
I'm implying you're just saying literally what I'm doing is implying that there's something we don't know about what's happened here and we need some answers.
What would it be?
We need some answers very, I have no idea.
I don't know.
Now let me go to some of the other panelists because we've expended a lot of energy on this.
I think, Jenkin, you have to go.
So I appreciate you.
Well, I appreciate you calling me a conspiracy theorist.
Thank you for joining me.
Let me go to Dave Rubin.
Anytime.
All right, thank you.
Let me go to Dave Rubin.
Dave Rubin, this is the problem.
If you can't raise questions, serious questions about what's happened here or suggest that it's odd without being branded a conspiracy theorist by people like Jenk Hugo, there's a bit of a problem, isn't there?
I mean, this was, it seemed to me not just negligence.
There's something very strange about this whole incident and how it unfurled.
I have never seen members of the public nearly a minute before a shooting at a president raising the alarm and telling people the guy's on the roof.
Have you?
Yeah.
Yeah, well, Piers, I haven't been on camera with that guy in about eight years, but I am just reminded of the brain-piercing, serious headache you get listening to him.
You just laid out very calm and cogent questions as to what happened to the man who is the ex-president and could be future president of the United States.
Double Standards Explained00:15:08
There was either a catastrophic failure, which we're all acknowledging, or something more nefarious.
All we can do is ask questions.
The red-headed guy with the visor who was interviewed on the BBC saying that it was probably about two minutes, and we'll find out the exact details on that, about two minutes before where he was warning law enforcement that there was someone on the roof.
Well, in two minutes, Piers, right now, I have an IFB in my ear.
I have a microphone right here.
That's what all of the agents around there have.
And they're all connected to a network of people who are telling them where to look and what to do.
I'm not an, of course, and I'm not an expert in this, but we all know this.
Corey Mills happens to be an expert.
Your interview was quite good with him.
So the idea that two minutes went by and nobody looked at the roof.
And by the way, the Secret Service director is now saying the reason they didn't have anyone staged on that roof was because there was a slope on the roof.
This is nonsense.
And they didn't want one of their agents to get hurt.
I mean, I've got roofers out on my roof right now.
There's a little bit of a slope.
They have special shoes.
They make it work.
The whole thing is insane.
But I would say at the political level, this has re-energized not just the Trump base, which was energized, but this new wide swath of disaffected liberals and UFC fighters and NFL players and just good, decent Americans to realize that Donald Trump is not the enemy right now.
And this fake call for unity.
Yes, I would like unity in a land of unicorns and everything else, but you can't on one day be or spend four years basically calling the guy Hitler and his supporters Nazi.
Then he gets shots and now we should have unity is just nonsense.
I'm sorry.
Well, and also for the current president of the United States to be asked, you know, do you have any soul searching about the language you've used, given that days before this shooting, he told donors that it was time to put Trump in the bullseye?
And then he tries to dance his way out of this by claiming, I didn't say crosshairs, as if somehow when you talk about human beings, bullseye or crosshairs mean any difference.
Obviously, he didn't mean I think Donald Trump should be shot.
But obviously, if you're a deranged young lunatic with an impressionable mind, who the hell knows what that kind of language?
We don't know yet, right?
About any of the motivation.
Apparently, there's a kind of very, very strange, again, a very strange lack of information that they've been able to find out about this young shooter.
Of course, but you also have to understand that there has been an entire media machine, mainstream media machine and Democrat elite that for years, since before Donald Trump was president, have been calling Hitler and his supporters Nazis.
What would someone do if they truly believe that?
I'm not directly linking this to Biden's bullseye comment, as irresponsible as it may be, or anyone else's specific comment.
But over time in culture, if things get normalized, and yes, this man is going to put us in camps and you can turn on MSNBC on any given day and they're talking about how they're all going to be arrested and taken off the air and what he's going to do to minorities and gays and everything else.
All utter, complete nonsense.
At some point, people might get a subtle message and then do something crazy.
Again, we don't know if that was a good idea.
Well, I think, but we certainly can ask.
Okay, and I look, I think, to be completely fair, I believe Donald Trump has spouted a lot of very ill-advised and occasionally very dangerous rhetoric.
And I want both sides to dial it down because actually where this leads to is where it's led to.
And in Britain, we've had two members of parliament in the last 10 years murdered by people for political reasons, you know, but basically because lunatics have wanted to eliminate them.
Let me bring in Destiny because you've been at the center, as you know, of a massive online response to what you were saying.
And I want to go through what you said, and I want to talk to you about this, hopefully in a calm manner to try and understand what you were thinking.
So on Saturday evening, hours after the shooting, you said, let me clarify, when I say conflicted, what I mean is I lean towards seeing it as a natural extension of the thing Trump and the MAGA kids support.
So I don't think I have much sympathy about the attempt enough to chastise people celebrating it.
You couldn't find it in your heart to chastise people for celebrating the near assassination of a man who was president of the United States and maybe again?
Absolutely not.
Conservatives have completely bled that well dry.
And the idea that they, after engaging in the most divisive and most extreme rhetoric that this country has seen in recent history, that they would come on and beg for sympathy, that it's escalated into some kind of violent confrontation is absolutely insane.
Even the idea right now of saying, well, if you call somebody a Nazi for so long, what do you expect people to do?
I grew up listening to Rush Limbaugh call Obama a communist every single day he was on the radio.
You've got conservatives that talk about how the mRNA vaccines were ways to sneak microchips into us.
You've got COVID lockdowns that were done because the government was trying to take all your freedom away.
They won't acknowledge anything that happened on January 6th.
They say that the election was stolen and that your country is being taken from you.
Like, I don't think anybody should be killed.
I don't think anybody should go and kill anybody.
But when you engage in this type of rhetoric and when you turn the temperature up over and over and over and over again, there is absolutely no room for that.
But you say, okay, but you say that you're not going to be able to do it.
But you say you say you don't want anybody killed, and yet you say, I don't think I have much sympathy about the attempt to chastise people celebrating it.
People celebrating the near assassination of Donald Trump.
If you can't find it in you to chastise people who do that, aren't you just as despicable as the people you've just spent the last two minutes haranguing?
No, because they've led the way.
This is the environment that they've created.
So you just think behaving like the people you think are despicable is the correct course of action.
It's not about behaving like the people who are despicable would be leading that type of letter, would be leading that type of rhetoric.
Be denying every single bad thing.
How many times has a liberal?
How many times?
How many times has a liberal have you been on a show?
Not you in general, but like a liberal been on a show and you've been forced to disavow all of the BLM riots, disavow all of the violence and blah, blah, blah.
And then you talk to conservatives about it.
That's good.
Yeah.
Oh, like conservatives disavow January 6th?
Wait, wait, wait.
First off, there's an entire cultural machine that has lied.
There is an entire consciousness.
We just thought in real time.
That's it.
That's why.
That's why conservatives deserve absolutely zero sympathy for anything that happens as a result of their rhetoric.
That's it.
It's so easy.
It's so simple.
I'm not exactly sure what he's talking about, but I would say this is the type of person that the internet has broke their brain, thus leaving them with very little empathy for their co-human.
I mean, a good, decent father is now dead because of this.
He's had his brains blown out because he was defending his wife and daughter.
I would hope that you have a little empathy for yourself.
Well, actually, I can deserve that.
Well, let me jump in there because we have a clip of what Destiny has said about that very thing.
Let's listen to this.
Fuck it.
Fuck the dude.
The firefighter guy.
Fuck Trump.
Fuck the people that support him.
I just want you to know, okay, just in case you're confused or it seems like I'm, you don't, whatever.
If one of you were in the crowd and you're a conservative fan of mine and you end up, you know, getting blown away or whatever the fuck, I'm making fun of you the next day on Twitter.
I am 100%.
I mean, I got to say, I just found that repulsive, Destiny.
I wish that you.
There is no room.
There is no room for the handwringing.
And I will not participate in this.
Oh, it's not handwringing.
The handwring.
No, it absolutely is.
No, it's just that you are positioning yourself.
Conservatives can say anything.
No, I'm not a conservative.
Any conspiracy theory.
They can have any plot.
They can do anything.
And then liberals are supposed to simulate.
Oh, my God.
It's so tragic.
Absolutely not.
Let me explain.
Let me explain my position because I'm not a conservative.
I'm not on either side in your race, right?
Here's what I think about what you did.
You'd like to fire off, as you've done so far in this debate, about your fury at how disgusting Republicans are, how inhumane they are, how they never have any empathy.
Blah, And then you yourself actually are exactly the person that you're describing.
You are inhuman.
You are somebody who seems almost gleeful that a young firefighter with a family, with a wife and children, who he was protecting as he was shot dead, that he deserved what was coming to him because he went to a President Trump rally, a man who was President of the United States until recently for four years and maybe again.
You sound almost gleeful, Destiny.
I'm sorry.
That makes you, frankly, despicable.
I don't think I'm gleeful about anything.
I don't think anybody should die.
I don't think anybody deserves to die.
But you want to talk about gleeful.
Look at the conservative response to Pelosi's husband when they broke in.
I can answer that.
Mainstream media thinks that you're not going to be able to do that.
I can answer that.
I don't care.
I can answer that.
I don't care what you're doing.
Let me answer that.
The reality is that conservatives have been turning the temperature up on the rhetoric.
They have been making fun of these types of events for years.
And now when something happens to them, now they're looking for sympathy from the liberal side?
Absolutely not.
It's insane.
It's unhinged that you can conduct yourself in such a manner.
And people feel sorry when things happen.
Why should anybody on the right listen to a word of your hectoring and lecturing about how they should behave?
And by the way, for the record, the mockery of Nancy Pelosi's husband when he was attacked by an intruder with a hammer was also despicable, right?
I can see despicable behavior on all sides, and I'm happy to call it out when I see it.
You, however, want to present yourself as this great kind of standard bearer of decency who sees outrageous behavior on the right time and again and is incensed by this disgusting, inhumane behavior.
And yet time and again, since the attempted assassination of Donald Trump, you have displayed exactly the same kind of inhumane behavior.
Fuck him about a fireman who is killed because he attends a rally of a guy he wants to vote for.
My issue with the MAGA kids is not that they are not empathetic.
My issue is that they support a president that led an insurrection against the United States.
I'm not here to tone police over their empathy.
80 million people voted for Donald Trump last time around.
That's great.
80 million people voted for a guy that tried to insurrect the government.
And it looks like they might try to do it again.
I mean, like, I don't know what you're going to say.
These are the facts on the ground.
The idea that you don't like attacks on democracy.
So presumably, you would unreservedly condemn the attempted assassination of Donald Trump.
Because that's one of the most egregious attacks on American democracy of modern times.
Presumably.
I don't think that any of us are going to be able to do it.
You will take this opportunity, given you are so determined to protect the integrity of democracy.
You would find it absolutely outrageous that someone has tried to assassinate a president, right?
If the other conservatives on this show want to say that it was absolutely outrageous to coup the government, then maybe then I would.
Yeah, no, I'm not going to get on my knees and beg for forgiveness or show sympathy.
I'm not asking for that.
I'm asking you to condemn what happened as an egregious attack on democracy.
Can you do that?
No, I won't.
No, I won't.
I won't.
You can't do that.
You see, so why the hell?
Frankly, Destiny.
Why the hell should we listen to a word you have to say?
Wait, why do you think conservatives haven't been listening to a word that liberals have said about anything for eight years?
Why do you think it's going to shit there?
Do you think that when liberals come out now and they go, oh my God, this was so horrible, they're going to go, wow, that is true.
I'd also like to say that.
Charlie, I'll bring you in at the end of this, I promise you, and you'll get a good chance to respond.
But here's my problem, Destiny, with your whole position on this, right?
Is that you don't actually have anything inside you that you want the other side to have.
You don't have any of the empathy.
You don't have any sympathy.
You don't care that someone tried to assassinate Donald Trump.
You don't care that a young fireman was killed in the process.
You are not the person you want these other people to be.
And all you do is play what a battery with every question I give you.
And I'm just starting to.
What about you?
We're talking about Donald Trump.
We're talking about the temperature of this country.
But here's a question for the two panelists.
What percentage of this event happening was due to Donald Trump's rhetoric?
What do they think the answer to that question is?
What percentage could it be that the other side, as we've just heard from Dave Rubin, has spent eight years calling Donald Trump the new Adolf Hitler, a person who was responsible for the murder of 12 million people, including 6 million Jewish people in a Holocaust?
Last time I checked, Donald Trump hasn't murdered 12 million people.
So much as you would like him to be the new Hitler, he's not.
But again, to an impressionable young, deranged mind who has easy access to guns, that can be easily interpreted as an existential threat, said President Biden.
Somebody that needs to be put in the bullseye, said Biden.
Only last week.
And guess what?
Who do you think?
Guess what?
Somebody then comes forward and tries to kill the existential rhetoric.
Who is engaged in more divisive rhetoric over the eight years?
If you had to assign a rough percentage of the state.
Again, you're playing what a battery.
Again, you're deflecting.
It's not what a definition of.
Just as Joe Biden did last night, just as Joe Biden did with Lester Holt on NBC last night, every time he was asked, have you done any soul searching about your own rhetoric, your own ill-advised use of language, he deflected it back to attacks on Trump.
And you're doing exactly the same thing with Republicans.
And I will tell you what the exact same thing is.
You say Republicans are...
You want Biden?
You say that they are lacking.
Donald Trump was saying Second Amendment people could maybe do something about Hillary Clinton.
Like, no, it's absolutely deranged.
The double standard that's being asked here is insane.
And you heard both of them say it earlier.
How much did Donald Trump's rhetoric contribute to the current environment?
Oh, not much at all.
Like, no, yeah, I'm not going to say anything to these people.
Of course not.
You see, Destiny, I'm unversed in any of the current events that have happened over the last couple of years.
First off, politics is downstream from culture, right?
And what has happened to our culture in the last eight years?
What has happened to our culture is that the mainstream media has lied about everything, always to the detriment of right-leaning people, whether it is the Russia hoax or COVID or Brett Kavanaugh is a serial rapist or the Covington kids are racist or Jesse Smollett was hoaxed, was lynched, or whether it was very fine people on both sides.
Every single lie always goes against right-leaning people.
So they are slightly annoyed and distrustful of people like you and other people in mainstream media who lie about literally everything.
So perhaps literally everything like biolabs and mass in Ukraine or like mRNA vaccines that are causing 20% excess deaths.
There it is.
Yeah.
Or the fact that COVID lockdowns were going to go on forever.
It was just an authoritarian abuse of power.
Or yeah, of course.
Like, come on, dude.
Conservatives are masters of misinformation and it's happening right here.
All right.
Let me bring in.
Let me bring in.
Let me bring in Charlie.
He's been waiting very patiently.
Charlie, thank you for being so patient.
Things have obviously got quite heated quite quickly.
Let me give you your chance now to have your say after what you've been hearing from Destiny.
Yeah, well, first of all, Destiny represents to me a certain subsect of the left.
I won't call it everybody who likes to bully others into saying exactly what they want to hear.
And if they don't say it, then you all of a sudden are the problem.
Toxic Political Unity00:12:49
And they just handle it exactly like he's been handling it on the show.
It's like a child throwing a temper tantrum.
You can't get a word in edgewise.
They just kick and scream and yell until you ultimately say, I've had enough.
Just say what you want to say and back down.
And that's exactly what we see a lot of times from people on the left.
And it just infuriates me because just like we saw on Saturday with the near assassination of Donald Trump, which that is exactly what it was.
It was an assassination attempt.
Yet we have, Dave, like you mentioned, all of the mainstream media putting out egregious headlines such as from CNN, Trump removed from stage by Secret Service after loud noises startles former president and crowd, which completely misled what actually happened.
This is the conservative.
This is the game.
It is no.
It is not accurate.
Right now, you know, Fox News is a very good question.
Listen, listen, first of all, we are allowed in this country to ask questions.
There was a lot of things that were very off on Saturday from the way that the Secret Service handled.
So, you know, I love this country.
God bless, I guess.
You can.
See, there you go.
He immediately said that.
And that is exactly the childish demeanor.
Let me break it.
Don't talk over each other.
Let me just ask you this, Destiny.
You were asked on that clip we played earlier if you'd have the same attitude if it used your parents who'd been killed at a Trump rally.
And you replied, it's less end-of-life costs for me.
Would I lose sleep over it?
No.
Do you understand how grotesque that sounds?
It sounds grotesque, but the environment that we are in right now is grotesque.
Why do you have to sound grotesque?
You cannot engage in behavior that leads us to this point, that brings us to the precipice, and then say, wait a second, are you taking this a little bit too far?
Just to be clear, hang on, Dave.
Hang on, Dave.
Hang on.
Just to clear what conservatives have said.
Just to be clear, Destiny.
If it was close members of your family or close friends who had gone to that Donald Trump rally and who'd lost their lives, one did, and two are critically ill, wounded, if they had died there, you would lose no sleep over that.
Is that your position?
Of course I would be sad.
It would be tragic, of course.
And the closer they are to you, the more sad it would be.
The same way that if you had a child that tried to rob a store and the child got killed by the police, that would also be tragic.
And so, you wouldn't think it's the same because they're your family, then.
You'd have a different rule for your own loved ones.
Would I feel more upset if a person very close to me died rather than a person farther away?
Yeah, I think the answer there is yes.
Yeah, but you weren't just not anything.
Be clear, you weren't just not upset by the death of that firefighter who'd given great service as a firefighter to his country.
You were gleeful and you said, Fuck him.
Fuck him.
I'm not, I'm not.
It's not gleeful.
Fuck them if it was your family and it was a Trump supporter.
I would say that if they go to a rally like this and they support an insurrectionist president and something happens to them, I would feel sad at a personal level because they're my parents.
But again, I learned from them more than anyone else.
I grew up in Nebraska.
You learned that if you mess around and if you do dumb stuff, that there are going to be consequences.
And would you think and would you be happy to say, you know what, fuck them about your own?
His rhetoric is far more dangerous than I've ever heard anything that Donald Trump said.
What he's saying right there.
He is saying you should have no empathy or sympathy for your fellow human.
You know, we can all disagree.
We can disagree about politics.
Of course, we can't.
And we can even disagree about how the media frames things and everything.
But these basic illusions that conservatively is a lot of people.
Go into a rally and get killed.
And that is absolutely psychotic.
I'm sorry.
And you know, the other part of this that's strange when people are calling for unity right now is if this had happened to Joe Biden, if Joe Biden had been shot at and had part of his ear blown off, the very people calling for unity right now would be calling for the rest of us to be put in jail.
So there's a strange asymmetry there as well.
And I would ask this: the strange asymmetry was Biden trying to make a phone call to the wife of the kill firefighter and her rejecting the call and Donald Trump not even reaching out.
Okay, that's the asymmetry.
When you talk about it's just politics, this is the cancerous brain rot that conservatives have fooled everybody into things.
It's not just politics to think that vaccines will kill you.
Okay.
I've got three dead family members from COVID.
My mom won't get a vaccine.
Okay.
After both of them were in the military.
These guys went up and down.
I'm not vaccinated.
I got here.
Don't worry.
We can all tell.
We can all tell.
My parents went up and down the line when they did basic training for the Air Force.
They got 20, 30 vaccines each.
My dad has a vaccine injury in his shoulder.
And the idea of not getting vaccinated was unconscionable to them until the conservatives spread these messages that are just politics.
Let me ask you this, Destiny.
Science has shown that the vaccine actually was one of the worst things you could have done for yourself.
Thank God I didn't get vaccinated.
I thank God every single day I did get a lot of people.
Let's not get it.
I don't want to read.
I don't want to get back into COVID, right?
Hang on, hang on, Charlie.
Hang on, Charlie.
I don't want to get down into COVID again.
I want to stick to this story.
And I want to ask you, Destiny, about Elon Musk, who responded to one ex-user who was calling for him to demonetize you on the X platform.
And he said, you're right.
This is not appropriate content for advertisers because of the offensive tweets you were aiming at Trump supporters.
What is your response to Elon Musk?
The same response as it always has been.
Elon Musk is a thinly veiled, I would say, like anti-woke, anti-SJW, basically right-wing supporting guy.
And if you say things that they don't like, of course, they'll demonetize you or they'll cancel you.
Conservatives are some of the least principled people in the universe when it comes to freedom of speech.
As soon as they have any power to demonetize or spam report somebody's sponsors or anything like that, of course conservatives will jump onto it.
My account also was demonetized, I think in like 12 hours.
Thank you very much, Elon Musk.
Although I do notice that my docs has been floating around Twitter for two days now and tons of accounts that I've been reporting that haven't been banned yet, but I'm glad we got our priorities straight there.
Again, here's what I think we're all struck by.
Your position seems to be that anyone from Donald Trump to his supporters who represents their thinking, their ideology, their political views, that if they are killed by an assassin at a rally, then they deserve what's coming to them.
And in your words, fuck them.
I mean, do you not understand that to most decent Americans and to decent people around the world, that is incredibly offensive and makes you look like a two-faced hypocrite, somebody who wants the other side to behave to a certain level of decency.
I don't want himself incapable of displaying it.
The conservatives don't have it in them to have that level of decentralization.
So why don't you rise to a higher bar?
Why don't you yourself show them?
Show them the promised land, Destiny.
Show them the way they should be behaving.
Yeah, like they did for Pelopsi's husband, like they did for the BLM people, like they did for the endless.
He didn't die, but he got the crap beat out of them with a hammer and they made jokes about his forever.
The jokes were disgusting.
Why can't you say the same thing about the people making mockery of Trump?
Why do you join the mob?
It's not just because it's not just the jokes.
It's the underlying substantive analysis as well.
It's the lack of responsibility for January 6th.
It's the lack of responsibility for the Gretchen plot.
It's the lack of accountability for BLM protests.
But by your yardstick.
By your yardstick.
By your yardstick, what the Republicans should do in response is simply say, fuck all of them.
Fuck them all.
Who cares?
Piers, that's what you're not understanding.
Piers, listen to me.
This is what you're not understanding.
You keep bringing this up to me.
Like, well, Destiny, if you act like this, aren't conservatives just going to feel that you're watching?
And then you say a thing, but they've done this for eight years.
Right, so the other side is the other side is horrendous.
Therefore, I'm going to be even more horrendous.
It's so unprincipled.
The horrendous part about the conservatives isn't just the rhetoric.
It's the underlying factual denial of reality.
That's the big, that's the huge issue.
That's the big bad thing.
Let me bring Charlie back to respond to that, Charlie.
Yeah, I mean, I think it's the opposite.
I think that, Destiny, you are completely fueled solely off of emotion.
Whereas I think that I'll say conservatives, even though I think that it spans past conservatives, when they look at the facts of the summer of BLM, the BLM movement as a whole, January 6th, this assassination attempt, when you look at the facts, things unfold before your eyes and they reveal themselves to be actually what they are.
There's a lot of evidence that has come forth since all of these events in the past have occurred.
And they have shown that exactly what conservatives were saying were absolutely correct.
Just like the assassination attempt on Saturday, we look at what went wrong.
We look at not only was this one rooftop unguarded, but how did the gunmen know that the rooftop was unguarded?
Why was it that local law enforcement alerted the Secret Service moments before shots were found?
There is actually a very good thing.
Do you think J6 was a false flag?
I think January 6th, there's a lot of discussions to be had.
I think there's a lot of facts that came forward.
I'm never, I will never give sympathy to this side.
These guys are destroying the country.
Destiny.
Destiny.
There were agents to give you a trend.
A single agent present.
We know for us.
But Destiny, here's your problem.
There were agents present on January 6th.
We saw the tourists being ushered into the Capitol building.
They're being treated like terrorists.
And in fact, several months ago, Vivek Ramaswamy said it's only fair that we're able to have a decent conversation about our own.
Okay, let me say that.
We're not able to have a conversation.
Let me just say what I think about January 6th, because I wrote it at the time and I believe it today.
I thought it was a shameful attack on the heart of American democracy.
It was an attempt to thwart democracy taking place.
It should never have happened.
Everyone involved in any violent act that day was utterly shameful.
Donald Trump's rhetoric that day was appalling.
All those things are completely true, Destiny.
I can happily subscribe to them.
Neither of your other guests.
But here's the thing.
Here's the thing.
Neither of these guesses are.
But if I'm a Republican.
But if I'm a Republican, but here's the thing, Destiny.
If I'm a Republican listening to you, I'm thinking, hang on.
This guy thinks we're all disgusting.
We're reprehensible.
We have no empathy.
We have no this, no that.
Yet he himself is proud of being even more disgusting.
And then I would say, wow, well, nothing has changed from since before COVID, before the vaccines, before J6, when they thought the election was stolen, when they thought that we were forced into lockdowns for no reason, when they thought that George Soros and the World Economic Forum and the IMF banks and everybody were taking over the country and the Federal Reserve was devaluing our currency.
Like, all of a sudden, nothing has changed.
Let me ask you this.
Wait, can you ask me?
One last question for you.
Destiny, one last question for you.
Are you pleased that Donald Trump got shot?
Am I pleased?
No, absolutely not.
What is your emotion to the shooting?
My emotion is emotionally what, in terms of his personal health, was absolute indifference.
No, do you condemn the shooter shooting Donald Trump?
No.
Not here, not on this program.
I'm not in front of these people.
You do not condemn a deranged shooting.
You are absolutely just a child.
This is not.
Actually, it's not trying to be decent here.
You know what, Charlie?
It's not actually the behavior of a child.
It's the behavior of somebody who's completely lost his moral compass and any sense of decency.
You're right.
And I'm going to go to Dave Rubin.
Let me let Dave Rubin respond to what you've just heard from Destiny.
I mean, it's actually one of the most disgusting things that I've ever heard in my life.
My entire staff in my studio right now all gasp at that.
When I happened to be at Target, the store Target we were checking out when I saw it on Twitter, and my heart actually sank.
And I know that that is the feeling of probably 200 plus, if not 300 plus million Americans, even many of whom would vote against Trump and do not like Trump and all of those other things.
The idea that you can't show sympathy or empathy for that is so profoundly sad.
I would also add one other thing here, which is that the reason you're so emotive and screaming beyond the Red Bull and dude, just ease up, man, it's not healthy for your heart, is that you really don't have good arguments.
So you're petulant and screaming as opposed to just trying to work things out.
We're allowed to ask questions about these things, but I would hope that you would try, as Piers is pointing out, instead of always reaching for the lowest common denominator, and they're bad, so I'll be worse.
Advice for Destiny00:01:18
I would hope that we could try to be a little bit better than that.
And by the way, I think that you're seeing that right now at the Republican National Convention.
They're not going crazy over all of this.
They're applauding the fact that Trump's there.
They're rallying around the new VP choice.
And I think you're going to see a wide swath of America that maybe didn't come out for Trump before and they're not traditional to do that.
I totally agree.
I think you're going to see them support Trump elections.
I totally agree.
And I would say to you, Destiny.
Nothing is more amplifying.
I would say to you, Destiny.
I'm not sure that the VP choice is a guy who's also said that Donald Trump is like Hitler.
And he's perfect.
He's apologized for it and said you got it wrong.
Yeah, I would say this to you, Destiny.
Lester Holt asked Joe Biden last night, has he had any soul searching?
I think after this debate, you may want to just go away quietly and think about some of the answers you've given and think about the double standard of demanding our willing patterns to others that you do not sign up for.
You may or may not take my advice.
You may or may not take my advice.
I'm just saying, on reflection, you might conclude that the best way to persuade other people to behave in a better way is not to behave in an utterly degrading way yourself.
That's all.
I think deleting a YouTube channel only takes one click, Destiny.